Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country. [Archive] - Page 34

Pigmy Pony

13-07-2021, 05:56

So that's an excuse for leaving the place like a midden? OMG, they didn't provide refreshments, a porta loo or bin on every corner, hired help to wipe my bum and tidy up my mess, simply because there's a big football match on and I've chosen to wander the streets, so I'll just dump it all on the floor!:wowzer:

Don't know about you mate, but I was brought up not to drop litter, and if there wasn't a bin handy, to take my rubbish home.

You can't expect others to provide every necessary facility for you in a public space. And yes, Glasto's also often left like a filthy midden by lazy and inconsiderate slobs, and equally inexcusable, which is why I wouldn't go near it with a bargepole.

Is dropping litter on beaches, having a shit in the sand or abandoning your kid's soiled nappies, also understandable, if the authorities haven't provided what you consider as 'adequate facilities'? If YOU create mess/rubbish, of ANY description, in any public space, then YOU (no-one else) are responsible for it, and therefore to tidy it up - simples!!

The local authorities are not your unpaid skivvies.

:exactly:

Marco.

:D Where do you go for your holidays? Sounds awful...

Not saying that all that litter is ok, just that I'm not shocked by it. They were football 'fans' after all. And I'm not blaming non-provision of bins/facilities either - the only way that might work is if there one bin marking every fan, and even then there'd be some aresholes who wouldn't bother.

Completely agree with all of your last point, the local authorities aren't my skivvies, and are not unpaid :) :exactly:

Marco

13-07-2021, 09:02

Lol - what I mean is they're not paid to follow you around and pick up your rubbish. Some bins are provided for that purpose, but if they're full, it's up to YOU to take care of YOUR own mess!

And it's not just 'football fans' who are guilty of such inconsiderate, filthy behaviour, but you also mentioned Glastonbury and compared the mess there, left after festivals, with that shown in the earlier photo. They weren't 'football fans', so what was their excuse? Especially as most of them arrive in their own transport, and so have ample ability to tidy up after themselves - but no, the lazy, filthy fucks, leave it for someone else:rolleyes:

Take some bin bags with you and clear up your mess before you go, FFS!!

What about the disgraceful scenes we all saw last year, and the terrible state beaches were left in, after the easing of the first lockdown, with idiots flocking there in multiple thousands knowing full well that there were zero facilities available because of Covid, abandoning their cars anywhere they could, whether it was safely, or causing an obstruction or not.

The 'shit in the sand' comment was directed at them, as that's exactly what was happening, including pissing everywhere too, because they were getting drunk when no toilets were open, leaving their filth and faeces for the poor council staff to deal with later. These are not civilised human beings, but rabid animals/scum, and an utter disgrace to humanity. In fact, that's an insult to animals!

As for the behaviour of the so-called 'football fans' in London; it's not really about football, it's about tribalism, and hooligans/rowdy louts who seize any opportunity they can to cause trouble and disruption - and in England that seems to be a bigger problem than elsewhere in Europe.

Where were similar scenes of rowdiness, violence and destruction (yes cars and properties were also damaged with bottles being thrown in Trafalgar Square) in the streets of Rome? Italy hadn't won the tournament since 1968, so had just as much cause to 'party' as England, It didn't happen, because aside from any organised football hooligans Italy has, such as the Ultras Macca mentioned on the Euros 2021 thread, the vast majority of Italians know how to behave themselves in public and aren't rampant piss-heads!!:doh:

Rest assured that the terrible scenes of violence we've seen from England fans outside of Wembley will have seriously damaged the reputation of BRITAIN abroad, even though the Scots, Welsh and Irish had nothing to do with the disgraceful behaviour we've seen, but I assure you that Brits holidaying abroad in future will feel the effect of that, especially in Italy, given what their fans, flags and culture were subjected to in London.

And then of course we've got the utterly appalling situation of 'England fans' racially abusing their own players for missing penalties, and the disgusting abuse they've been subjected to in that respect on social media, so bad it's now reached the national news, and in all the papers, and which will therefore be seen all over the world.

Therefore, I say to the so-called ENGLAND 'fans' who were guilty of causing all this trouble:

You should be utterly ashamed at how you've portrayed BRITAIN to the outside world and tarnished its reputation. Let's hope that all the good people, who represent the majority of real fans and the rest of the English (and British) nation, can do something to fight the racist cancer in English football and tackle the hooligans, in order to help repair the damage that's been caused, and take some steps now towards restoring good relations abroad!

Marco.

struth

13-07-2021, 13:25

face masks and distancing to remain in scotland after 19th. its a hybrid zero;)

Marco

13-07-2021, 13:43

I think it'll likely be the same in Wales for a while, but we'll find out for sure tomorrow, when Mark Drakeford announces his plans for the further easing of restrictions in Wales.

Fair enough if he feels it's prudent to retain the requirement for wearing 'masks' for a while yet, even though I believe it makes next to hee-haw difference, unless the 'masks' worn (costing around £30 a pop) comply to the necessary British Safety Standards, rather than the glorified pieces of paper or cloth covering the 'coupons' of folk, mostly in order to be compliant;)

In any case, the English border is only a few miles from us, so we'll use this opportunity to entertain ourselves in England, sans masks, until Wales falls into line with its near neighbours:cool:

Marco.

hifi_dave

13-07-2021, 16:33

face masks and distancing to remain in scotland after 19th. its a hybrid zero;)
You are bloody lucky. I and 3.7 million others will be shielding for the foreseeable.

F'ing politicians don't give a shit and are going for 'herd immunity' at the expense of the vulnerable. It's such a small thing to ask that people wear a mask when in shops, transport etc. Everything else is freedom, so what's the big deal ? Maybe, when the NHS is swamped, they will rethink.

Marco

13-07-2021, 17:06

You are bloody lucky. I and 3.7 million others will be shielding for the foreseeable.

Erm, for the sake of the economy and life returning to normal, let's hope not, eh?;)

F'ing politicians don't give a shit and are going for 'herd immunity' at the expense of the vulnerable.

But you've had both your jabs, Dave, haven't you? So you're not 'vulnerable' (certainly nowhere near the level you were beforehand), and so in no real danger of dying. However, if you still feel vulnerable, then what was the point in getting vaccinated, if you're still going to subject yourself to a form self-imprisonment?:hmm:

It's such a small thing to ask that people wear a mask when in shops, transport etc. Everything else is freedom, so what's the big deal ? Maybe, when the NHS is swamped, they will rethink.

The latter simply won't happen, unless a new strain emerges that's completely resistant to the vaccines, which is very unlikely. As for the former, some of us are fed up of having to wear something across our faces that's sweaty and uncomfortable and restricts our breathing.

Try wearing a mask for hours on end, if you have to, depending on where you are or what you're doing, rather than simply for a quick shopping trip, and see how you feel then, such as many people working in shops and restaurants have had to endure.

It's unpleasant and now largely unnecessary, as the link between infections and hospitalisations has been broken, which is why, although currently the case numbers are very high, it's not being reflected in the number of hospitalisations or deaths, unlike before when cases were high and often up to 800 people were dying every day. It's now hovering at around 50, with approximately 550 daily hospitalisations.

Once we ride this final wave (which we haven't seen the peak of yet and are unlikely to for another few months), case numbers will plummet, as will hospitalisations and deaths. Then we will be able to exist without being ruled by this virus, which will always be with us now in some form or other, but will be managed by vaccination, same as with flu, so try not to let it control your life, mate.

However, even though I can't wait to ditch my 'mask', I will still take one with me, and if going into small shops or other people's homes, I will wear it out of courtesy, if they would feel more comfortable that way, and possibly also on the rare occasions I use public transport, simply to make others there feel safer, including the likes of bus drivers.

I'll be doing that because I'm a kind and considerate person, but at the same time I also want to get life back as close to how it was before all this shit happened, and will be doing my utmost for that to happen!:cool:

In any case, stay safe and well:)

Marco.

rmcin626

13-07-2021, 17:08

You are bloody lucky. I and 3.7 million others will be shielding for the foreseeable.

F'ing politicians don't give a shit and are going for 'herd immunity' at the expense of the vulnerable. It's such a small thing to ask that people wear a mask when in shops, transport etc. Everything else is freedom, so what's the big deal ? Maybe, when the NHS is swamped, they will rethink.

Happy to wear a mask where required

struth

13-07-2021, 17:12

still to get my second jab so still very much avoiding folk. 15/16 months now. it feels like a life sentance :D

daughter and family released from their 10 day lockin.. all took tests today and neg so all pissed off to spain.. not even a visit:rolleyes:

nice feeling that;)

Marco

13-07-2021, 17:25

Not nice, mate, she deserves a telling off from daddy for that;)

Not summat your wee niece would do...

Marco.

struth

13-07-2021, 17:36

Not nice, mate, she deserves a telling off from daddy for that;)

Not summat your wee niece would do...

Marco.

such is life nowadays. holidays in sun are top.. i shall survive and not take it too personal. and no niece wouldnt do that ;)

struth

13-07-2021, 18:14

Happy to wear a mask where required

indeed i think wearing masks in shops and busses etc is sensible for now. although our cases have dropped a little they are still very high so its out there. i guy on a mobility forum i use said his daughter is a nurse in london hospital and said there are lots of double vaccinated folk very ill in her wards. so vaccine isnt a cure all by any means

Marco

13-07-2021, 18:23

such is life nowadays. holidays in sun are top.. i shall survive and not take it too personal. and no niece wouldnt do that ;)

No, don't, as she's still your wee girl and loves you. She's maybe just a bit too wrapped up in her own life. As for the sunny hols thing, it's a different world, as I wouldn't thank you for it, especially right now! Potentially much more grief than it's worth:nono:

I've never understood this 'desperation' folks have for holidays, especially simply sitting on a beach in some mundane tourist resort. There are far more important priorities and rewarding things to do.

We've put all foreign travel on hold for a minimum of 12 months (from now), and will reassess things again after that. Right now, there's plenty of sun in Wrexham, as it's a beautiful evening, still 22C, and we're just about to have a BBQ, open a bottle of fizz, and enjoy some great food!:cheers:

Marco.

Bksabath

13-07-2021, 18:26

The latter simply won't happen, unless a new strain emerges that's completely resistant to the vaccines, which is very unlikely.

Marco.

I have to disagree on this regard, viruses do mutate all the time and the vaccines in this case have been rushed trough the approval and only act on a small part of the virus
A mutation is very much possible the cat is out of the bag and nothing is going to put it back

The best defence you have is to make sure that your immune system is up to scratch, just go for a run around in the garden in your undies when is sunny for 15 minutes and if not sunny get the second best possible thing and take same vitamin D

Marco

13-07-2021, 18:28

indeed i think wearing masks in shops and busses etc is sensible for now. although our cases have dropped a little they are still very high so its out there. i guy on a mobility forum i use said his daughter is a nurse in london hospital and said there are lots of double vaccinated folk very ill in her wards. so vaccine isnt a cure all by any means

I get that mate, but what are you supposed to do after being 'double jabbed' - hide away in fear forever? From now on, everyone simply has to learn to live with Covid, and be done with it, as there are plenty of other things you could die from.

Life is for LIVING, not worrying!!

:exactly:

Marco.

struth

13-07-2021, 18:36

I get that mate, but what are you supposed to do after being 'double jabbed' - hide away in fear forever? From now on, everyone simply has to learn to live with Covid, and be done with it, as there plenty of other things you could die from.

Life's all about LIVING, not worrying!!

:exactly:

Marco.

no, i agree it will have to be lived with, but some sensible precautions should still be taken especially when cases are high etc. not everyone has your ability to survive it. my grandson had it for a week or so and wasnt up nor down but he could give it to someone. In fact he was in my house about 5 days before he came down with it and was going to hug me when he left. i went with an elbow jab;) think now, that proved wise lol.
but this is the trouble that much of the folk with it dont feel ill but pass it to older folk who do; hence the ' be sensible' attitude

Marco

13-07-2021, 20:24

I have to disagree on this regard, viruses do mutate all the time and the vaccines in this case have been rushed trough the approval and only act on a small part of the virus
A mutation is very much possible the cat is out of the bag and nothing is going to put it back

The best defence you have is to make sure that your immune system is up to scratch, just go for a run around in the garden in your undies when is sunny for 15 minutes and if not sunny get the second best possible thing and take same vitamin D

Excellent advice, Sandro. My wife already does that, but she's somewhat 'easier on the eye' than me, and so far less likely to scare the neighbours!:D

Marco.

dave2010

14-07-2021, 08:23

I've never understood this 'desperation' folks have for holidays, especially simply sitting on a beach in some mundane tourist resort. There are far more important priorities and rewarding things to do.

We've put all foreign travel on hold for a minimum of 12 months (from now), and will reassess things again after that. Right now, there's plenty of sun in Wrexham, as it's a beautiful evening, still 22C, and we're just about to have a BBQ, open a bottle of fizz, and enjoy some great food!:cheers:
We flew down from Inverness to LHR and back recently. The queues at T5 on the return were horrendous - though I might concede that they could have been worse for some people in former times.

The queues are badly handled - but most people put up with them. As we are now effectively too old to worry about, we are unable to walk huge distances, or stand in a queue for hours. It is possible to walk a very long distance in T5 - particularly if when asking for assistance the advice is to go to the Assistance desk - which is - yes you guessed - right at the other end of the building! Under normal circumstances this wouldn't be an issue, as flows through the building would be fairly quick - but right now the place is heaving with people who are - as you put it "desperate" to get away. There is virtually no social distancing on the planes either - whereas a few months ago there might have been, or so I've been told.

The airlines and airports are operating businesses, and they simply want to get things moving, and their employees want to be paid, rather than laid off.

I would rather stay alive and not go anywhere than join the hordes wanting to get to the sun - or as in the last week - to sporting events. We do have holidays abroad booked for 2022, but we rather suspect they'll be cancelled or rearranged.

Sometimes up here in the frozen wastes the weather is really nice - as it was a couple of weeks back.

In the meantime I've now got a couple of new speakers to wire in.

Bksabath

14-07-2021, 18:19

I get that mate, but what are you supposed to do after being 'double jabbed' - hide away in fear forever? From now on, everyone simply has to learn to live with Covid, and be done with it, as there are plenty of other things you could die from.

Life is for LIVING, not worrying!!

:exactly:

Marco.
I agree whit you 100 % but Is not only covid that you have to live whit.

Look after yourself and the ones you love no one else is going to do it for you.
The governament and the media are not going to do it, they have their own agenda, (yes yes Just conspiracy theories for now time will tell) I was quite surprised to see Mr Whitty just stand there and say nothing, to be honest I am quite delusional to think that maybe he would maybe the tin hat does not work so well

There is loads worst camming whit the Americans just printing trillions of $ and the news of the constant scraps whit the Russians

So yes life is for living do not worry get ready, be prepared and make your voice and your votes count

There are same good news as well gogle up the Fusion power pilot plant

hifi_dave

15-07-2021, 15:54

Erm, for the sake of the economy and life returning to normal, let's hope not, eh?;)

But you've had both your jabs, Dave, haven't you? So you're not 'vulnerable' (certainly nowhere near the level you were beforehand), and so in no real danger of dying. However, if you still feel vulnerable, then what was the point in getting vaccinated, if you're still going to subject yourself to a form self-imprisonment?:hmm:

The latter simply won't happen, unless a new strain emerges that's completely resistant to the vaccines, which is very unlikely. As for the former, some of us are fed up of having to wear something across our faces that's sweaty and uncomfortable and restricts our breathing.

Try wearing a mask for hours on end, if you have to, depending on where you are or what you're doing, rather than simply for a quick shopping trip, and see how you feel then, such as many people working in shops and restaurants have had to endure.

It's unpleasant and now largely unnecessary, as the link between infections and hospitalisations has been broken, which is why, although currently the case numbers are very high, it's not being reflected in the number of hospitalisations or deaths, unlike before when cases were high and often up to 800 people were dying every day. It's now hovering at around 50, with approximately 550 daily hospitalisations.

Once we ride this final wave (which we haven't seen the peak of yet and are unlikely to for another few months), case numbers will plummet, as will hospitalisations and deaths. Then we will be able to exist without being ruled by this virus, which will always be with us now in some form or other, but will be managed by vaccination, same as with flu, so try not to let it control your life, mate.

However, even though I can't wait to ditch my 'mask', I will still take one with me, and if going into small shops or other people's homes, I will wear it out of courtesy, if they would feel more comfortable that way, and possibly also on the rare occasions I use public transport, simply to make others there feel safer, including the likes of bus drivers.

I'll be doing that because I'm a kind and considerate person, but at the same time I also want to get life back as close to how it was before all this shit happened, and will be doing my utmost for that to happen!:cool:

In any case, stay safe and well:)

Marco.
Yes, I have had both my jabs but in common with 3.7 million people who are immune compromised, I have little to none, immunity to Covid. I asked my Consultant yesterday and he is one of those conducting tests on immunity and he confirmed the lack of antibodies in people like me.

So, there are 3.7 million of us who must shield against huge numbers of people who are positive. This will be for the foreseeable future as the infection rages.

hifi_dave

15-07-2021, 16:03

no, i agree it will have to be lived with, but some sensible precautions should still be taken especially when cases are high etc. not everyone has your ability to survive it. my grandson had it for a week or so and wasnt up nor down but he could give it to someone. In fact he was in my house about 5 days before he came down with it and was going to hug me when he left. i went with an elbow jab;) think now, that proved wise lol.
but this is the trouble that much of the folk with it dont feel ill but pass it to older folk who do; hence the ' be sensible' attitude

Very sensible.

I can't believe that England is abandoning masks. It's a tiny thing to do and minimal inconvenience but saves a huge number of infections. It's being left to personal choice and people being sensible. Yeah right !!!

Fortunately some Mayors are making them mandatory as are GP surgeries, chemists and of course, hospitals. From what I've seen and read, the healthcare professionals and scientists are pretty well all proposing masks should be used for some time, it's just the politicians abandoning them but advising 'caution'.

struth

15-07-2021, 16:39

Very sensible.

I can't believe that England is abandoning masks. It's a tiny thing to do and minimal inconvenience but saves a huge number of infections. It's being left to personal choice and people being sensible. Yeah right !!!

Fortunately some Mayors are making them mandatory as are GP surgeries, chemists and of course, hospitals. From what I've seen and read, the healthcare professionals and scientists are pretty well all proposing masks should be used for some time, it's just the politicians abandoning them but advising 'caution'.

i think its a political decision rather than a medical one. the far right of his party need more money;)

Gazjam

15-07-2021, 16:48

And a good excuse for Chums in the private sector to step in to "assist" the NHS in its time of need...

Macca

15-07-2021, 17:03

I don't get this really, they are not 'abandoning masks', just removing the legislation where you can be fined for not wearing one. And there are exceptions in any case, they will still be compulsory on the London Underground for example.

prestonchipfryer

15-07-2021, 17:13

Bksabath

15-07-2021, 18:07

Probably the worst rag around

There are OVER 200 long-Covid symptoms and an average patient suffers from 56 of them, experts find | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9788467/There-200-long-Covid-symptoms-average-patient-suffers-56-experts-find.html)

They say each long Covid patient suffers an average 56 different symptoms over the course of their recovery - including bizarre ailments such as noting their penis shrink in size and irregular period.

and the worst rag from over the pond
COVID-19 drug remdesivir may prolong hospital stay, researchers claim | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-drug-remdesivir-may-prolong-hospital-stay-researchers-claim)

and an big corporate sponsored source as well
Remdesivir news and latest updates (medicalxpress.com) (https://medicalxpress.com/tags/remdesivir/)

But well all know that at 36$ X pop Remdesivir did not work and it had far less research and studies carried out than for Ivermectin

And now just think about a dentist drill going on and on in your head
Leaked Kremlin documents support claim Russia has 'compromising material' on Trump | JOE.co.uk (https://www.joe.co.uk/news/leaked-kremlin-documents-support-claim-russia-has-compromising-material-on-trump-280801)

So that they are pumping you to hate your next door neighbour

Bksabath

15-07-2021, 18:26

Every Little Helps, as the Tesco ad goes. Personally my life has been saved by the NHS on three different occasions, the last thing on my mind is where the fucking protective gear comes from and to whose pockets any ''profits'' go. Really sick of these daft comments made by people who should grow up! Cheers.

The mask do came mostly from china so big thumbs up for them as they are the only one that can be bothered to make them As I always said the Chinese are the last one I blame for the current situation
yes the virus most probably came out of there but Fauci is the one that paid for the research, illegal everywhere else, that may have caused the mutation that may have caused the infection to be contagious for humans and no other species whatsoever as none has been found so far.
And maybe thanks for the microchips so that we can have cars and mobile phones and ventilators and defibrillators and Chinese cookies, sorry cancel the Chinese cookies as those are not Chinese put in there all else

So Thanks a lot china man we really really love you and wish you many many daughters

Yes I am sick of the daft comments as well grow up and give the bastards that gave the NHS a 1% pay rise the boot

Hey do not recall any one here saying bad things about the NHS did I miss the memo?

Bksabath

15-07-2021, 18:41

Petition · Health Secretary Sajid Javid: Protect the NHS: Stop the health and care bill · Change.org (https://www.change.org/p/health-secretary-sajid-javid-protect-the-nhs-stop-the-health-and-care-bill?cs_tk=AkLFhnxE_3Y0SPRp-GAAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvNFWC72Tha6VRrByVwKtlBQ%3D&utm_campaign=b1bc1d44b2b44b64b166685d161d9e82&utm_content=initial_v0_3_0&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_signer_receipt&utm_term=cs)
Quote >>

We have to stop the Health and Care bill passing through parliament right now before it damages the NHS we know and love. It will mean the handing out of NHS contracts to private companies with friends in the government.

Bksabath

15-07-2021, 19:03

Whot!!!:D you did not know about Change.org

You can even start a petition to stop me posting links and such

Pigmy Pony

15-07-2021, 19:24

Whot!!!:D you did not know about Change.org

You can even start a petition to stop me posting links and such

My Scottish friends posted some links to me, but by the time they arrived they'd gone off

Bksabath

16-07-2021, 05:29

Correction
MR Whitty did tell his bit
At a webinar hosted by the science museum that many did not know about the rags are talking about it
I am trying to find a link for it
You can start whit : Chris Whitty and Science museum

Still it would have been much better if he came out whit " I do not agree whit those bozos" instead of just standing there looking like a sour lemon

walpurgis

16-07-2021, 08:50

struth

16-07-2021, 08:55

im over 7 weeks so hoping my second wont be long, but knowing the folk up here itll be 3 months yet:rolleyes:

Marco

16-07-2021, 10:10

The infection rate is rocketing once more and deaths are rising. I expect things will get so bad that another lockdown will be inevitable.

Then if that is the case, which I doubt, what fooking use were the vaccines?:doh:

I'll tell you summat for nowt (as they say up Piggers way), if there's another lockdown, it won't be the plebs not following 'advice' the government will have to worry about, but WIDESCALE RIOTS!!

Think what happened at Wembley x 10,000!!!

As *no way* folks will put up with another lockdown:nono:

Now's also the time to start thinking about the forthcoming Flu season. God help anybody who catches Flu and Covid at the same time and it will happen! I'll be getting the Flu jab in a couple of months.

Can we just enjoy the summer first, daftee? I don't know, you doom and gloom merchants:ner:

The VERY LAST thing on my mind, on a glorious day like this, is the fooking flu season:ner::ner:;)

Enjoy the lovely weather, smile and be happy:)

Marco.

struth

16-07-2021, 10:18

oh no, i forgot about the flu season:eek: right im locking down... double lockdown;)

but yes geoffs right, you dont want to catch both simultaniously or your a gonner. im just hoping i get my second before the flu ones come out lol

struth

16-07-2021, 10:20

oh and blowjo said no more lockdowns, ....ever.... so expect one next month

walpurgis

16-07-2021, 10:21

im just hoping i get my second before the flu ones come out lol

Pester them Grant. Don't get fobbed off or delayed.

struth

16-07-2021, 10:31

Pester them Grant. Don't get fobbed off or delayed.

i will do my best but the dept i need are unobtanium alas.

Gazjam

16-07-2021, 10:47

Marco

16-07-2021, 10:49

You didn't answer this, Geoff:

Then if that is the case, which I doubt, what fooking use were the vaccines?:doh:

It was a serious question, as if what you're intimating comes true (i.e. folks start dying again in the same numbers as we had before, forcing another lockdown), then the vaccines were FUCK ALL USE, and we're back at square one!

Then what???

Marco.

struth

16-07-2021, 10:53

Saved on three different occasions...
For free.

Get it now?

nhs saved me when i had the last pandemic; swine flu. I left my organs in worse shape and i now have asthma but i'd have been pan bread without them

walpurgis

16-07-2021, 11:27

You didn't answer this, Geoff:

It was a serious question, as if what you're intimating comes true (i.e. folks start dying again in the same numbers as we had before, forcing another lockdown), then the vaccines were FUCK ALL USE, and we're back at square one!

Then what???

Marco.

I have no doubt that the rising infections are among the younger population and the older unvaccinated, of which there will still be many.

It's not vaccinated folk who are getting the virus, although there remains a small chance of them catching it.

struth

16-07-2021, 11:37

Around 100 crew members have contracted Covid-19 on board HMS Queen Elizabeth, the*Royal Navy’s flagship aircraft carrier.

There have also been cases on four accompanying ships in the flotilla.

HMS Queen Elizabeth was a quarter of the way through a seven-month world tour when the outbreak spread across the Carrier Strike Group, which set sail in May.

The 3,700 crew members had all received both Covid-19 vaccinations, said Defence Secretary Ben Wallace.

He added that none of the crew have been seriously affected by the virus but that the situation is being managed.

A Royal Navy spokesperson said: “As part of routine testing, a small number of crew from the Carrier Strike Group have tested positive for Covid-19.

Marco

16-07-2021, 11:57

I have no doubt that the rising infections are among the younger population and the older unvaccinated, of which there will still be many.

It's not vaccinated folk who are getting the virus, although there remains a small chance of them catching it.

Completely correct! And also completely correct is the fact that almost none of those are dying. It'll be the older unvaccinated, which although of course is very sad, aren't numerous enough in number to overwhelm the NHS, increase death figures to previous levels, thus force another lockdown.

The fact is, as one health expert opined on TV, even during the horrendous first and second waves of Covid, the NHS *just about* coped. It wasn't overwhelmed. Therefore, it's very unlikely to be this time, with the majority of the population vaccinated.

So.... Once all the 'youngsters' have been double-jabbed, along with the oldies, there will cease to be (much) of a problem, and we can slowly get back to normal!:thumbsup:

Folks need to stop worrying, panicking and putting their lives on hold forever with this bloody thing.

By all means, the most vulnerable, such as your good self, Grant, Dave and others, *should* be sensible and take precautions, but at the same time LIVE with a glass half-full attitude (looking forward to the eventual return or normality), than the opposite.

I mean mate, you got Covid and are still here to tell the tale, and Granty and Dave are still here too, despite not having lived inside a sterilised cell for the last 18 months;), so you WILL get through this, and therefore by the same time next year, all this shit will be just a bad memory! :trust::cool:

Marco.

Marco

16-07-2021, 11:59

walpurgis

16-07-2021, 12:12

Folks need to stop worrying, panicking and putting their lives on hold forever with this bloody thing.

Marco.

Speaking for myself Marco. I'm careful and think everything I do and get involved with though, but I've never panicked in my life

For instance, when I became dangerously ill last year and this year when I realised I had the onset of Coronavirus, my main reaction strangely, has been curiosity, with me thinking 'I wonder how this will go'. :D

struth

16-07-2021, 12:32

https://youtu.be/nR0lOtdvqyg?t=6

Marco

16-07-2021, 12:43

Speaking for myself Marco. I'm careful and think everything I do and get involved with though, but I've never panicked in my life

For instance, when I became dangerously ill last year and this year when I realised I had the onset of Coronavirus, my main reaction strangely, has been curiosity, with me thinking 'I wonder how this will go'.

Good stuff, mate, well done. Didn't think you were that type. Stiff upper lip and all that, and STAY POSITIVE:thumbsup:

Some of the 'eternal depressives'/doom and gloom merchants around the place at the moment are just doing my box in!:doh:

I'm declaring AoS a FROWN-FREE zone! Cheery, upbeat folks, only!!:D

Marco.

struth

16-07-2021, 13:03

Good stuff, mate, well done. Didn't think you were that type. Stiff upper lip and all that, and STAY POSITIVE:thumbsup:

Some of the 'eternal depressives'/doom and gloom merchants around the place at the moment are just doing my box in!:doh:

I'm declaring AoS a FROWN-FREE zone! Cheery, upbeat folks, only!!:D

Marco.

what you insinuatin' man;) I am just going outside, I may be some time:D

Gazjam

16-07-2021, 14:16

Nothing to see here...

"ICEBERG, DEAD AHEAD!"

Around 100 crew members have contracted Covid-19 on board HMS Queen Elizabeth, the*Royal Navy’s flagship aircraft carrier.

There have also been cases on four accompanying ships in the flotilla.

HMS Queen Elizabeth was a quarter of the way through a seven-month world tour when the outbreak spread across the Carrier Strike Group, which set sail in May.

The 3,700 crew members had all received both Covid-19 vaccinations, said Defence Secretary Ben Wallace.

He added that none of the crew have been seriously affected by the virus but that the situation is being managed.

A Royal Navy spokesperson said: “As part of routine testing, a small number of crew from the Carrier Strike Group have tested positive for Covid-19.

Macca

16-07-2021, 15:05

Good stuff, mate, well done. Didn't think you were that type. Stiff upper lip and all that, and STAY POSITIVE:thumbsup:

Some of the 'eternal depressives'/doom and gloom merchants around the place at the moment are just doing my box in!:doh:

I'm declaring AoS a FROWN-FREE zone! Cheery, upbeat folks, only!!:D

Marco.

well said. Good job we didn't have that attitude in the war or we'd all be speaking German now.

walpurgis

16-07-2021, 15:09

I am just going outside, I may be some time:D

:lol:

struth

16-07-2021, 15:15

:lol:

i failed but i tried. one can only try.:rolleyes:

i give up lol

Bksabath

16-07-2021, 15:24

well said. Good job we didn't have that attitude in the war or we'd all be speaking German now.

The only reason we are not speaking German is because the Japs did the Pearl the Americans would have been more than happy to see how it went otherwise.

And if you think that that war was won just take a stroll and count how many German cars you see
Old watersports promised a car to all and now you see them on the friutball pitch taking the ball around NO?:eyebrows:

Macca

16-07-2021, 16:05

The only reason we are not speaking German is because the Japs did the Pearl the Americans would have been more than happy to see how it went otherwise.

And if you think that that war was won just take a stroll and count how many German cars you see
Old watersports promised a car to all and now you see them on the friutball pitch taking the ball around NO?:eyebrows:

lol the point is we aren't ruled by old watersports and his nutters though isn't it? I'd call that a win.

Yes we had to sacrifice pretty much everything to do it, still a lot better than the alternative. The yanks gave us a bit of help I agree.

Gazjam

16-07-2021, 16:08

You'd like to think (spitballin' here...) if there's a "Common Enemy" that kills everyone's GrandParents, we'd come together and look out for others not just ourselves?
Common British Sense....?

hifi_dave

16-07-2021, 16:41

From Monday there'll be no real Covid restrictions. The government urges caution............ as if the plebs will absorb that or even care. Not a chance.

The infection rate is rocketing once more and deaths are rising. I expect things will get so bad that another lockdown will be inevitable.

I had the virus in January. Trust me, you do not want to catch this!! Fortunately, although it was dreadful I was not hospitalised and probably now have a useful antibody level, bolstered no doubt by the two Astra/Zeneca jabs I've had subsequently.

Now's also the time to start thinking about the forthcoming Flu season. God help anybody who catches Flu and Covid at the same time and it will happen! I'll be getting the Flu jab in a couple of months.

Chris Whitty said on TV this morning that cases are escalating and very soon the hospitals will be overwhelmed and deaths rising considerably. In his opinion, we are heading for a lockdown in 5 - 6 weeks time.

For goodness sake, why are we abandoning all precautions when we could have waited a few more weeks to get more of the population fully vaccinated ? I realise the Government want to get the economy going but we have few restrictions now, so things are going well. If we are forced into another lockdown, then it all goes to shit again.

We have been out for two lovely meals this week and all is well and free so why can't we keep masks and social distancing for a few more weeks at least ?

struth

16-07-2021, 16:47

england seems this time to be behind scotland. we have, it appears, peaked and have of late been down to a lot lower than last few weeks.. 2k or so a day now. still getting deaths but thats expected. england up to 50k today. can see that doubling before it improves

hifi_dave

16-07-2021, 16:47

Completely correct! And also completely correct is the fact that almost none of those are dying. It'll be the older unvaccinated, which although of course is very sad, aren't numerous enough in number to overwhelm the NHS, increase death figures to previous levels, thus force another lockdown.

The fact is, as one health expert opined on TV, even during the horrendous first and second waves of Covid, the NHS *just about* coped. It wasn't overwhelmed. Therefore, it's very unlikely to be this time, with the majority of the population vaccinated.

So.... Once all the 'youngsters' have been double-jabbed, along with the oldies, there will cease to be (much) of a problem, and we can slowly get back to normal!:thumbsup:

Folks need to stop worrying, panicking and putting their lives on hold forever with this bloody thing.

By all means, the most vulnerable, such as your good self, Grant, Dave and others, *should* be sensible and take precautions, but at the same time LIVE with a glass half-full attitude (looking forward to the eventual return or normality), than the opposite.

I mean mate, you got Covid and are still here to tell the tale, and Granty and Dave are still here too, despite not having lived inside a sterilised cell for the last 18 months;), so you WILL get through this, and therefore by the same time next year, all this shit will be just a bad memory! :trust::cool:

Marco.
I hope you are right and to be honest, it hasn't affected us much but I feel for those who it has affected and still will for the foreseeable.

We know of two elderly people living in apartments, afraid to go out. The only face they see each week is the supermarket delivery driver and they are miserable. For them, life is horrible right now and with another lockdown forecast for 5 - 6 weeks time, they are scared witless.

100,000 per day is the forecast within 14 days, with hospital admissions and deaths increasing considerably.

struth

16-07-2021, 16:50

I hope you are right and to be honest, it hasn't affected us much but I feel for those who it has affected and still will for the foreseeable.

We know of two elderly people living in apartments, afraid to go out. The only face they see each week is the supermarket delivery driver and they are miserable. For them, life is horrible right now and with another lockdown forecast for 5 - 6 weeks time, they are scared witless.

i managed into a small shop today. it didnt go well for me but i did get in and out(might so better next time). Thats first for a good year plus. not been in a big shop etc for 16 months or really seen anyone much.

hifi_dave

16-07-2021, 16:54

i managed into a small shop today. it didnt go well for me but i did get in and out(might so better next time). Thats first for a good year plus. not been in a big shop etc for 16 months or really seen anyone much.
Good for you Grant.

I have been into Waitrose and Tesco during quiet periods the past few weeks but with the figures getting so high, that will have to stop. It's just a small thing but it's nice to look at the shelves, pick out some goodies and see people.

Marco

16-07-2021, 17:11

Chris Whitty said on TV this morning that cases are escalating and very soon the hospitals will be overwhelmed and deaths rising considerably. In his opinion, we are heading for a lockdown in 5 - 6 weeks time.

That's the only bit I'd fundamentally disagree with, which I'm surprised he's said.

At the risk of repeating myself again, if hospitals weren't overwhelmed the first time, when at its peak, death-wise, things were MUCH worse, PRE-VACCINES. then WHY would they be worse (by being overwhelmed, as he's apparently claimed) this time, POST-VACCINES?:hmm:

This is the fundamental point that folks either don't seem to be letting sink in or is somehow being lost in the translation..!! THINGS ARE DIFFERENT NOW, than they were before, because of the vaccines, i.e. folks might be catching the virus, but they're not getting as ill or dying.

As Geoff says, the current infections are mainly in the young, who haven't yet been vaccinated, or older folks who've either chose not to vaccinated or have only had one jab, but that's not going to overwhelm hospitals, if it didn't happen before!

So.... I simply cannot fathom why Whitty would come out with that and mention lockdowns, when based on what I've just said, and the vaccines doing their job, there should be no need whatsoever for any more lockdowns, certainly not a national one.

Anyway, we'll see what happens.

Marco.

struth

16-07-2021, 17:21

i didnt read him saying that but did say it wouldnt be that unlikely that england could get into scary numbers if it keeps going... scottish numbers suggest it might not

Marco

16-07-2021, 17:49

i didnt read him saying that but did say it wouldnt be that unlikely that england could get into scary numbers if it keeps going... scottish numbers suggest it might not

Me neither, hence why I questioned it, as it seems counterintuitive, and therefore unlikely. "Scary numbers" of cases, is one thing, and highly likely, but I simply can't see there being scary numbers of hospitalisations or deaths this time - and THAT is the key difference!

Dave, did you 100% for definite hear Chris Whitty say that a lockdown in 5-6 weeks was looking likely, and if so, *precisely* how did he justify it?

My understanding was that the government was very ANTI any further lockdowns, unless under extreme circumstances, with the NHS being overwhelmed, and as I've outlined, it's difficult to see how that would happen this time.

Marco.

Gazjam

16-07-2021, 18:50

i managed into a small shop today. it didnt go well for me but i did get in and out(might so better next time). Thats first for a good year plus. not been in a big shop etc for 16 months or really seen anyone much.

Hopefully all went well Grant.
Bloody shame its came to this, unhappily (short of Devolution) were at Bojo's popularist Whims

Gazjam

16-07-2021, 18:51

You just made your own point.
Lets have a conversation this coming December and speak about numbers.

That's the only bit I'd fundamentally disagree with, which I'm surprised he's said.

At the risk of repeating myself again, if hospitals weren't overwhelmed the first time, when at its peak, death-wise, things were MUCH worse, PRE-VACCINES. then WHY would they be worse (by being overwhelmed, as he's apparently claimed) this time, POST-VACCINES?:hmm:

This is the fundamental point that folks either don't seem to be letting sink in or is somehow being lost in the translation..!! THINGS ARE DIFFERENT NOW, than they were before, because of the vaccines, i.e. folks might be catching the virus, but they're not getting as ill or dying.

As Geoff says, the current infections are mainly in the young, who haven't yet been vaccinated, or older folks who've either chose not to vaccinated or have only had one jab, but that's not going to overwhelm hospitals, if it didn't happen before!

So.... I simply cannot fathom why Whitty would come out with that and mention lockdowns, when based on what I've just said, and the vaccines doing their job, there should be no need whatsoever for any more lockdowns, certainly not a national one.

Anyway, we'll see what happens.

Marco.

Marco

16-07-2021, 18:57

Numbers of what though, mate? Cases or hospitalisations/deaths.

The former, minus the later, are of little consequence.

Marco.

Gazjam

16-07-2021, 19:34

Marco,
no point to grind here but as you asked...

These numbers. Lets compare in December.

https://i.imgur.com/GbdAzbz.jpg

Marco

16-07-2021, 19:41

Sure, Gaz, but as I said before, and will repeat:

If as many fully vaccinated people (as will be the case by December) start dying and and/or being hospitalised with serious illness, as we had BEFORE the vaccines, then what fucking use were the vaccines...??

Marco.

hifi_dave

17-07-2021, 09:44

i didnt read him saying that but did say it wouldnt be that unlikely that england could get into scary numbers if it keeps going... scottish numbers suggest it might not
I was doing paperwork yesterday, so the TV was on and each news section showed him saying that he expected a lockdown in 5 - 6 weeks as the Hospitals become overwhelmed.

This morning, Chris Smith the Virologist and the Scottish Scientist lady pointed out that the numbers are doubling every 3 weeks, the Hospital admissions are increasing rapidly with many of those being youngsters. Apparently 1 in 3 of the youngsters admitted are now suffering with Long Covid, so they are not immune from problems. 46% of deaths in Hospital are those who have been double jabbed.

With cases rising at such a pace, what is the reason for abandoning all restrictions, apart from economic ? Surely, wearing a mask in shops and crowded places and the
2 mtr rule isn't such an onerous thing. Even if some people believe they are invulnerable, it's a responsible thing to do to protect the vulnerable and the 3.7 million who are doomed to isolation for the long haul.

Marco

17-07-2021, 10:40

For me, another national lockdown (regional is different) could not be justified unless we start seeing at least 2000+ hospitalisations a day, combined with multiple hundred deaths (say 500+), thus approaching levels seen during the first and second waves, and I simply don't see that happening. Long Covid (as nasty as it is) is a different thing, but won't force a lockdown.

However, no-one seems willing to answer my earlier question: if people who've been 'double-jabbed' are still dying, and that situation increases to the levels outlined above, what freakin' use were the vaccines, and most importantly, where do we go from there...??

If the virus is going to be so resistant to vaccines, then it seems like herd immunity will be the only real solution.

Marco.

brucew268

17-07-2021, 11:01

Long Covid (as nasty as it is) is a different thing, but won't force a lockdown.

I agree that vaccinations are making a difference and can't compare to ICU admissions and deaths from before. Yet, I've run into a significant number of people who had both jabs and then got the Delta variant anyway.

I also have several friends with Long Covid and for some it's as nearly bad as Covid itself: low oxygen levels and regularly needing oxygen supply to supplement, inability to function physically or mentally to the extent that they might need to go on disability benefits, sometimes bed-bound.

I think over time we will either sort Long covid or find that it needs to be treated as seriously as Covid itself. Whether it should force a lockdown is an open question.

Gazjam

17-07-2021, 14:58

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/17/sajid-javid-uk-health-secretary-tests-positive-for-covid

Yiiikes...

Wheres he been the last week or so?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6gNQc9XoAQHBZn?format=jpg&name=large

Bksabath

17-07-2021, 15:55

Ministers may have to self-isolate after Sajid Javid tests positive for Covid (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/ministers-may-have-to-self-isolate-after-sajid-javid-tests-positive-for-covid/ar-AAMgrjo?ocid=msedgntp)

and
Covid pressure begins to bite: Hospital CANCELS all planned surgery (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/covid-pressure-begins-to-bite-hospital-cancels-all-planned-surgery/ar-AAMeHdy?ocid=msedgntp)

The situation is so fluid at present this is what is on the news, I don't know how seriously to take this, I am working on the principle that news papers sell more when fabricating/ spinning bad news.

I got loads of questions
Did Mr Javid really had the Vaccines ?
How many nurses and Doctors are looking after him?
Being of a same what darker complexion has he had a chance to be sun batting or was he taking his vitamins?
Is he just claiming to be positive so that is not going to be at work on the 19th
Did he catch it while visiting same doggy place like a care home or such?:lol:

Has he been strangely affectionate whit any one of the opposition while at work since the 13th?

There where 3 hospitals declaring code Black in Scotland back on around the 8th July has that been improved or gone worst?
Gogle up CODE BLACK and Hospitals

My spin on Freedom day ...

The necessity to be cautious have been passed on the general public, no matter how bad it goes, the establishment is no longer responsible for it.

If :eyebrows: is going to get bad it is going to be your fault the people we pay to look after those things are to busy choosing wall paper and doing assistants or such

Freedom day is just or I wash my hand of it day ?

Bksabath

17-07-2021, 17:46

29645

The WHO came up whit a report that unintended errors have been found on first investigation
It is about 120 pages long
They still have not found how or who or the species of the ministerial aid that had intercourse whit the bat and that then had intercourse whit the human that manufactured the virus
they say that the wet market had nothing to do whit it
They say that they got data from over 80000 animal samples and no spill over species has been found. how much data has ben unintendedly lost in the mean time?

They also say that the Fauci virus can survive in frozen food so I would get rid of those Chinese Spring rolls you got stuck at the bottom of the freezer
As I can see so far
There is no mention amongst the unintended errors about appointing Peter Daszak that was funnelling the money he was given by Fauci to carry out the gain of function research in Wuhan to be a lead scientist in the first doggy investigation
Maybe that is not mentioned as it was an intended error and it can not be an error if it was intended
So as such thing does not exist it is not mentioned
On the same principle deleted data from the time the first investigation toke place by the nature of being deleted can not be unintendedly lost so it did not ever exist and therefore can not be deleted
Is my tin hat getting too tight or somehow the Square rout of -1 managed to zap me?

WHO-convened global study of origins of SARS-CoV-2: China Part (https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-study-of-origins-of-sars-cov-2-china-part)

Maybe not direct quote from the Washington post
After the report was published, even the WHO’s director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, expressed concern (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/who-wuhan-tedros-lab/2021/03/30/896fe3f6-90d1-11eb-aadc-af78701a30ca_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_35) about China’s level of transparency and called for a more thorough investigation.
WHO clarifies details of early coronavirus patients in Wuhan - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/covid-wuhan-outbreak-who/2021/07/15/51e7e8a6-e2c6-11eb-88c5-4fd6382c47cb_story.html)

prestonchipfryer

18-07-2021, 07:25

:lol: Don't understand a word of that.

struth

18-07-2021, 09:23

How things change, and only 2 regions of scotland on map. most in england now suggesting the switch from scotland to mostly n england.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1062D/production/_119471176_top_european_regions_2021-07-17.png

Marco

18-07-2021, 09:49

Good news for you, then!:)

Still no Wales listed:ner:;)

Marco.

struth

18-07-2021, 09:55

Good news for you, then!:)

Still no Wales listed:ner:;)

Marco.

hopefully the trend continues and also wales stays free-ish

Marco

18-07-2021, 10:18

Hopefully the whole bloody country will be free-ish of it soon, mate, as we're all sick to our back teeth of it!!!!

Marco.

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 10:55

Marco

18-07-2021, 11:04

Lol, yeah I know.. Veritable bastions of truthfulness and integrity!:lol::rofl:

Marco.

struth

18-07-2021, 11:05

as opposed to wee johnnies youtube site;)

Marco

18-07-2021, 11:14

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 11:27

as opposed to wee johnnies youtube site;)

Maybe for some people, I prefer to use my own intellect and logic.

A collection of Crows is a murmuration.

A collection of Governments a murderisation (I made the word up but I guess it’s relevant).

Gary

Macca

18-07-2021, 11:29

as opposed to wee johnnies youtube site;)

Yes, I was looking for some Covid data the other day and it's amazing how much utter shite there is out there. 'There's no covid it's all a lie.' Fucking grow up.

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 11:33

Well, I guess it depends on who 'Wee johnny' is... It's called free speech, though!

In any case, I'm not really disputing the figures, but simply stating that one of the 'Bs' in BBC could stand for 'BIASED';)

Marco.

I would dispute any figures or statistics to be true and honest from either the WHO or the BBC, paid lackeys their “figures” can be bought. Follow the money!

Gary

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 11:35

Yes, I was looking for some Covid data the other day and it's amazing how much utter shite there is out there. 'There's no covid it's all a lie.' Fucking grow up.

Lambs grow up into ????

Gary

Macca

18-07-2021, 11:41

Lambs grow up into ????

Gary

Lamb chops and cutlets :D

Macca

18-07-2021, 11:45

I didn't find the specific data I was looking for as it happens, it doesn't seem to exist.

I think there is always a temptation to think we are living in Star Trek where you just have to ask the computer 'What percentage of?.. etc' and it just tells you.

In reality all of this data is is just estimates, best guesses or pulled out of the ass. In some cases it may be close to the reality but it's impossible to know for sure. Doesn't stop people bandying it about as though it was absolute fact though.

struth

18-07-2021, 11:48

struth

18-07-2021, 11:50

Lambs grow up into ????

Gary

lambs rarely grow up... they get eaten

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 12:03

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 12:06

@macca @struth.

Only if they’ve been jabbed :lol::eyebrows:

Gary

Macca

18-07-2021, 12:08

People or Government Bodies, the WHO, CDC, NHS....

Gary

Yes everyone, and not just when it's about Covid either. Look at businesses, I've seen some horrifically expensive mistakes made when they just relied on the data. Especially when the data conflicted with good old common sense.

Filterlab

18-07-2021, 12:27

Yesterday the UK had the highest 'new cases' figure in the world at 54,674 according to Worldometer. Tomorrow almost all restrictions are being removed.

I wonder which way that figure will go?

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 12:35

There is plenty covid out there, and it can affect double jabbed folk. But much of govt's talk on what you could and couldnt do, what you had to wear and what you couldnt was a form(is a form) of Stockholm syndrome at play, there is no doubt.

Anyone who thinks it was all a con tho, seriously needs educating

I need educating then, as do other people, the issue is knowing what the con was.

For a virus with a kill rate of less 0.02% the world has been shut down, people die from various things. Get over it!
The complaints of it makes me feel ill, may not have been really ill at any time, it’s a comparative not absolute term.

I’m lucky, I have severely compromised immune system, ‘flu, pneumonia, blood clots and much more, never worn a mask or intend to, been wherever and whenever over this plandemic period. No issues! I’m lucky!

The con is getting populations into lockdown when there have been more deadly threats before. People need educating on this con and seek a logical explanation. The issue is the moronic masses can’t think, it’s an age thing too, older people are used to Governments being (fairly) truthful so accept the MSM brainwashing.

Anyone who thinks the virus is the problem needs educating.

Gary

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 12:45

Yesterday the UK had the highest 'new cases' figure in the world at 54,674 according to Worldometer. Tomorrow almost all restrictions are being removed.

I wonder which way that figure will go?

I have tried to get a definition of “cases” and when does an “unconfirmed case”, become a “case” and what tests are applied confirmed by physical and re test as per the WHO’s guidance.

Get a Jab....Pop Up Jab testing, let’s get more “cases” to further some agenda? More tests = more cases even ignoring false positives. Simples!

Gary

Macca

18-07-2021, 13:35

The con is getting populations into lockdown when there have been more deadly threats before. People need educating on this con and seek a logical explanation. The issue is the moronic masses can’t think, it’s an age thing too, older people are used to Governments being (fairly) truthful so accept the MSM brainwashing.

Anyone who thinks the virus is the problem needs educating.

Gary

So explain why a lockdown is of covert benefit to 'the government' and explain why, if it is, they are desperately trying to end it despite ostensibly rising case numbers?

I think this is about the third time I've asked this question on this thread and I've still not had an answer.

Gazjam

18-07-2021, 14:31

And the Hits just keep on coming...
https://i.imgur.com/6OAR8WI.jpg

Telling people not to uninstall the Track n Trace App, Boris and Sunak get pinged and they try to get out of isolating?
Then the same day they do a U-Turn and say they will?

WTF is going on with this lot? https://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/17428.gif
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/18/boris-johnson-and-rishi-sunak-will-not-isolate-after-being-pinged-says-no-10

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 14:36

So explain why a lockdown is of covert benefit to 'the government' and explain why, if it is, they are desperately trying to end it despite ostensibly rising case numbers?

I think this is about the third time I've asked this question on this thread and I've still not had an answer.

If your inverted commas refer to my post I didn’t say ‘the government ‘ I said “ Governments”, not limited to the UK.

So as you well know it’s a worldwide issue. You’ve had various answers or “conspiracy theories” , so chose one!

Perhaps this :-

“Mikhail Sergeevich Gorbachev Foundation, funded by the United States, gathered 500 of the world’s most important statesmen, economic leaders and scientists, including George W. Bush (he was not the U.S. president at the time), the Baroness Thatcher, Tony Blair, Zbigniew Brzezinski, as well as George Soros, Bill Gates, futurist John Naisbitt, etc., all of the world’s most popular characters, in the San Francisco Fairmont hotel for a high-level roundtable conference, discussing problems about globalization and how to guide humanity to move forward into the 21st century. According to what He Xin had in hand, the outstanding people of the world in attendance thought that in the 21st century a mere 20 percent of the world’s population will be sufficient to maintain the world’s economy and prosperity, the other 80 percent or 4/5ths of the world’s population will be human garbage unable to produce new values. The people in attendance thought that this excess 80 percent population would be a trash population and “high-tech” means should be used to eliminate them gradually.”

It fits the actions.

It’s your assumption that UK Government are desperately trying to end lockdown, mine is they’ve timed this to pass the buck to the population, then revert to lockdown and have the fall guy (s)

We will learn in time, will the vaccinated be saved or sacrificed, or vice versa for the unvaccinated.

Gary

Macca

18-07-2021, 15:50

If your inverted commas refer to my post I didn’t say ‘the government ‘ I said “ Governments”, not limited to the UK.

So as you well know it’s a worldwide issue. You’ve had various answers or “conspiracy theories” , so chose one!

Perhaps this :-

“Mikhail Sergeevich Gorbachev Foundation, funded by the United States, gathered 500 of the world’s most important statesmen, economic leaders and scientists, including George W. Bush (he was not the U.S. president at the time), the Baroness Thatcher, Tony Blair, Zbigniew Brzezinski, as well as George Soros, Bill Gates, futurist John Naisbitt, etc., all of the world’s most popular characters, in the San Francisco Fairmont hotel for a high-level roundtable conference, discussing problems about globalization and how to guide humanity to move forward into the 21st century. According to what He Xin had in hand, the outstanding people of the world in attendance thought that in the 21st century a mere 20 percent of the world’s population will be sufficient to maintain the world’s economy and prosperity, the other 80 percent or 4/5ths of the world’s population will be human garbage unable to produce new values. The people in attendance thought that this excess 80 percent population would be a trash population and “high-tech” means should be used to eliminate them gradually.”

It fits the actions.

It’s your assumption that UK Government are desperately trying to end lockdown, mine is they’ve timed this to pass the buck to the population, then revert to lockdown and have the fall guy (s)

We will learn in time, will the vaccinated be saved or sacrificed, or vice versa for the unvaccinated.

Gary

It doesn't fit the actions though because the virus is nothing like bad enough to wipe out 80% of the world's population. Assuming that is their goal you wouldn't go about it like this. And lockdown doesn't help in any way either.

Added to which what do these people care what the population of the world is? It doesn't actually make any difference to anyone, let alone billionaires.

The primary aim of any government is to get re-elected. Everything else is subservient to that priority. Lockdowns ruin the economy and elections are won and lost on the economy, not Palestine or BLM or social justice or any of the other things lefties like to get their knickers in a twist about.

Election in 3 and half years time, maybe just enough time to get things back on track if they start now. That's why they're ending lockdown now regardless of the casualty rate, no need for outlandish theories.

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 16:43

Macca

18-07-2021, 18:55

It doesn't fit the actions though because the virus is nothing like bad enough to wipe out 80% of the world's population. Assuming that is their goal you wouldn't go about it like this. And lockdown doesn't help in any way either.

I like your crystal ball certainty on the future effects of any virus or mutations on the population, and any reaction to the alleged vaccine. How would you go about it?

Lockdown prevents people congregating and mass demonstrations against any perceived injustices.

Lockdown confines people at home to be indoctrinated by MSM and not allowed to see anything for themselves

No need for outlandish theories.

Or ill-conceived naive assumptions in isolation of one country.
Gary

well if you wanted to cut the global pop by 75% I agree a virus would be about the only effective method Part of the problem is that you can't just have any old 25% left over, you need to select that 25%. Without them knowing about it.

So you would have to give your selected people the real vaccine and everyone else a fake one. Which is possible, although very difficult to do clandestinely. Everyone administering the vaccines would have to be in on it and keeping their mouths shut. Highly unlikely.

Also you would want a virus that did actually kill people in huge numbers, not a small fraction of 1 percent of those who catch it. I suppose you could argue that they got it wrong and thought it would be more deadly. Would such an enormous and highly planned operation really make that basic error though?

But we're well into the realm of pure speculation.

Marco

18-07-2021, 19:37

On another note, deaths from Covid (the most crucial statistic) have gone down recently, after having hovered around the mid-40 mark for the last week or so, and currently sitting at 25: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Of course, that could change pretty quickly, but I see nothing so far indicating a return to anything like the situation we had in Jan/Feb, certainly nothing yet to trigger a lockdown. It'll be interesting, however, seeing what effect (if any) the easing of restrictions in England tomorrow will have on proceedings in the weeks or months to come.

Marco.

Stryder5

18-07-2021, 20:48

well if you wanted to cut the global pop by 75% I agree a virus would be about the only effective method Part of the problem is that you can't just have any old 25% left over, you need to select that 25%. Without them knowing about it.

Why without them knowing about it!

So you would have to give your selected people the real vaccine and everyone else a fake one. Which is possible, although very difficult to do clandestinely. Everyone administering the vaccines would have to be in on it and keeping their mouths shut. Highly unlikely.

You answered your own question. Pure conjecture about administering vaccine, select the 20% to be saved, select from them the administrators. Entirely feasible!

Also you would want a virus that did actually kill people in huge numbers, not a small fraction of 1 percent of those who catch it. I suppose you could argue that they got it wrong and thought it would be more deadly. Would such an enormous and highly planned operation really make that basic error though?

Not an error. Create the fear of illness and death, convince people about efficacy of the vaccine, then create new more potent strains that require extra vaccinations, because the mutations are more aggressive. In the quote I originally posted there was emphasis on the speed of infection.

But we're well into the realm of pure speculation.

You’re right, it’s what you asked for.

All of the information is speculation and guessing from the “science” and MSM.

Gary

Marco

18-07-2021, 21:23

One thing's for sure, the claimed efficacy of the vaccines (what was the AZ one again, something akin to 90-odd percent effective?) will be shown up as pure bullshit, if double-vaccinated folks start dying in their droves, as some appear to be claiming is coming!

For the time being, I'll continue avoiding to side with the better of the 'conspiracy theories' about this whole thing, even though I have some sympathy with them, and give the 'reality' the benefit of the doubt, for now...

*BUT*, if later in the year we enter into another national lockdown, due to massively increased hospitalisations and deaths, and effectively end up back at square one, and no nearer to a return to freedom and normality, I'll be smelling a rat and starting to give said, so-called 'conspiracy theories', the credence and respect they'd deserve!

Marco.

Stryder5

19-07-2021, 07:13

One thing's for sure, the claimed efficacy of the vaccines (what was the AZ one again, something akin to 90-odd percent effective?) will be shown up as pure bullshit, if double-vaccinated folks start dying in their droves, as some appear to be claiming is coming!

For the time being, I'll continue avoiding to side with the better of the 'conspiracy theories' about this whole thing, even though I have some sympathy with them, and give the 'reality' the benefit of the doubt, for now...

Perceived reality?

*BUT*, if later in the year we enter into another national lockdown, due to massively increased hospitalisations and deaths, and effectively end up back at square one, and no nearer to a return to freedom and normality, I'll be smelling a rat and starting to give said, so-called 'conspiracy theories', the credence and respect they'd deserve!

Marco.

People have already made their minds up and I respect that. I do hope that the “Conspiracy Theorists “ including me are wrong and all will be well with the world

Gary :cocktail:

Bksabath

19-07-2021, 07:17

from what I read here and all over I think at the don't panic scene on the Airplane movie Being hit whit a crow bar is not going to solve the problem

I think that we can agree on those 3 points
Govth does not have a clue about what the primary function on their job description is.
and the media work on the principle that bad news improves the ratings and make more money
and Pharma does not want you to get cured or for you to die they want returning customers

It does not have to be this way
Have a look at this

Ivermectin for COVID-19: real-time meta analysis of 60 studies (ivmmeta.com) (https://ivmmeta.com/)

Have a quick look at table 3 and make up your own opinion and please explain this

I V E R M E C T I N Drastically Reduces COVID deaths in IIndia and AAfrica - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMkK5mipp4E)

Skip to minute 16

You can ask the MHRA and your GP to look in to this.

I did and got fobbed off but if 100 or 1000 people ask the same question maybe this will change

walpurgis

19-07-2021, 07:50

Bksabath

19-07-2021, 08:11

Freedom Day or Your government wash his hands of it day?

Marco

19-07-2021, 08:16

All true, Geoff. However, as long as we're talking about cases and infection rates, much more than hospitalisations or deaths, although that'll be bad enough, we should manage without the need for any further lockdowns or major restrictions, and at the moment death rates remain low.

We'll just need to see what happens, in that respect, now that restrictions are lifted in England, and interestingly, where we're at in terms of infection rates, etc, when Wales are due to follow suit on 7th August.

It wouldn't really bother me if mask wearing was extended for a while yet, but what would bother me greatly (a gross understatement), would be another lockdown, effectively as a result of the vaccines not working, and us all back to square one.

We NEED to start seeing tangible signs of real progress, and that we're nearing the end of this nightmare, not simply back at the bloody beginning!!

Marco.

walpurgis

19-07-2021, 08:31

No level of deaths should become acceptable. However, from my point of view, the main concern should be future mutant strains of Covid. There is no reason so far to think they could not be more malevolent or virulent. Equally, of course they could become less harmful, but progressing evolutions have not proved to be so yet.

Stryder5

19-07-2021, 08:38

One thing's for sure, the claimed efficacy of the vaccines (what was the AZ one again, something akin to 90-odd percent effective?) will be shown up as pure bullshit, if double-vaccinated folks start dying in their droves, as some appear to be claiming is coming!

For the time being, I'll continue avoiding to side with the better of the 'conspiracy theories' about this whole thing, even though I have some sympathy with them, and give the 'reality' the benefit of the doubt, for now...

Perceived reality?

*BUT*, if later in the year we enter into another national lockdown, due to massively increased hospitalisations and deaths, and effectively end up back at square one, and no nearer to a return to freedom and normality, I'll be smelling a rat and starting to give said, so-called 'conspiracy theories', the credence and respect they'd deserve!

Marco.

People have already made their minds up and I respect that. I do hope that the “Conspiracy Theorists “ including me are wrong and all will be well with the world

Gary :cocktail:

Pigmy Pony

19-07-2021, 15:33

Some may believe that a double vaccination gives protection against infection. Same with folk who have previously been infected. So Anita's son is a medical marvel! He got Covid in February, was "double jabbed" about six weeks ago, and at the weekend he tested positive...

As he stayed at ours at the weekend we're all having to self isolate :( I've spent most of the morning moving all my appointments back a week, for the next 3 weeks, which will mean some late finishes and all day Saturday working. I reckon he caught it while getting pissed at the pub last Sunday. So the next three weeks is all fucked up for me because of the bleedin football :steam:

Still, I've got a sunny leisurely week ahead, I might even play out on the bike tomorrow. Every cloud eh? :)

struth

19-07-2021, 15:36

hifi_dave

19-07-2021, 15:46

'Freedom Day' is here. Unfortunately, it coincides with the biggest Covid infection peak since January. The couldn't care less amongst us will no doubt mingle without a thought and propagate the infection further. I expect we will see the highest level of Covid cases yet before long. The only way through this is to hope herd immunity becomes a reality. Possible future restrictions can't be ruled out and will rely on the 'judgement' of the government.

52,000 new cases yesterday, the fastest growing number in the World and our Government is removing all restrictions.

Meanwhile 3.7 million immunosuppressed and many, many more old and frail are condemned to an enforced lockdown for how long ???

struth

19-07-2021, 16:00

scottish numbers seem on wane as under 1500 today, about 10th consecutive drop. although mondays are usually inaccurate. thus england should have had about 15k or so so its deffo increasing down there now. if like us, itll likely peak and fall off before it gets too high

hifi_dave

19-07-2021, 16:03

BBC news today gives the latest figure for England at approx 39,000 but with the usual caveat that this is a Monday figure which will rocket tomorrow.

walpurgis

19-07-2021, 16:07

Think I'll go back to having shopping delivered.

Macca

19-07-2021, 16:09

52,000 new cases yesterday, the fastest growing number in the World and our Government is removing all restrictions.

Meanwhile 3.7 million immunosuppressed and many, many more old and frail are condemned to an enforced lockdown for how long ???

55K a day is 385K a week, so at present rate 168 weeks until the entire population of the UK has had it at least once.

walpurgis

19-07-2021, 16:13

55K a day is 385K a week, so at present rate 168 weeks until the entire population of the UK has had it at least once.

And that does not include the hordes of asymptomatic who have no idea they've got it.

struth

19-07-2021, 16:23

Think I'll go back to having shopping delivered.

im still getting mine delivered.. one coming tomorrow morning.. fridge is empty:D

Macca

19-07-2021, 16:38

And that does not include the hordes of asymptomatic who have no idea they've got it.

Or all the people who've already had it. probably looking at less than a year in reality.

Barry

19-07-2021, 16:56

55K a day is 385K a week, so at present rate 168 weeks until the entire population of the UK has had it at least once.

168 weeks is 3.2 years - just in time for the next general election. Will be interesting to see what happens then. :D

walpurgis

19-07-2021, 17:08

168 weeks is 3.2 years - just in time for the next general election. Will be interesting to see what happens then. :D

By that time the virus will have mutated into something diabolical and the few people left will find themselves playing out a real version of the story, 'The Road'!

Macca

19-07-2021, 17:14

By that time the virus will have mutated into something diabolical and the few people left will find themselves playing out a real version of the story, 'The Road'!

Or 'Survivors'. I'm going to get me a Rolls Royce like that Welsh bloke does. Assuming I survive ofc.

Marco

19-07-2021, 18:41

BBC news today gives the latest figure for England at approx 39,000 but with the usual caveat that this is a Monday figure which will rocket tomorrow.

Try and concentrate on hospitalisations or deaths, not cases;)

The cases will die a death soon! There's a pun in there somewhere, I think:hmm:

Marco.

Marco

19-07-2021, 18:46

Deaths down to 19 now... https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

A WHOLE 19!!!!

What are you panic merchants worrying about?:D;)

Marco.

Stryder5

19-07-2021, 19:39

Deaths down to 19 now... https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

A WHOLE 19!!!!

What are you panic merchants worrying about?:D;)

Marco.

Being wrong?:D

Gary

sailor

21-07-2021, 10:32

Just noticed and read some of this long thread. It is apparent to me that MSM mostly mention number of cases and not number of deaths. And if talking about deaths it needs to be also displayed as a percentage instead of just the rather meaningless but scary number of cases.

I read some time ago about this doctor who tested himself, a goat and a papaya and all tested positive. Something wrong with the testing perhaps?

Also the testing swabs are sterilised with ethylene oxide, a known carcinogen.

Regarding masks, my take is that this contributes to contracting the virus rather than preventing. Consider that 'experts and scientists' claim the virus is exhaled in a cloud of moisture droplets which when hitting your mask is then carried around in close proximity to mouth and nose and this absorbent material is collecting samples all the time it is worn. Just look at how many front line workers wearing masks have got sick. While wearing the mask your oxygen intake is reduced which probably weakens your immune system. Some masks contain formaldehyde causing contact dermatitis. If the masks work why bother with the vax?

MSM's relentless scaremongering should raise alarms as should the removal of reports of hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness. An African lady doctor in the USA treated 350 patients with hydroxychloroquine with 100% success and has been totally ignored or dismissed. It's also cheap and readily available but big pharma will not make money from this so it's put out there that it is potentially dangerous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8uDjO-qkp8
Please all, take a listen to Alex Belfield's --- We're at war 7:34 min.

@Stryder5, I agree with your stance on this.

Marco

21-07-2021, 12:27

Some good points there, Charles, many of which I agree with, and also those made by AB, via the enclosed link.

For me, if there's any real truth in the 'conspiracy theories' put forward, now and in the coming months will be when we'll find out, and whatever hidden agendas there may be, simply in terms of how much of the freedoms we enjoyed pre-pandemic are available to us once again, once everyone (who wants it) has been double-vaccinated.

The telling time for me will be what kind of Christmas we'll have this year, and how normal it will be compared with what we had to endure last year...

In that respect, if we're locked down again and subject to all sorts of restrictions, preventing us once again to gather and celebrate as families, and we're no nearer to the end of this bloody thing, then some very serious questions will need to be asked, as to where the powers that be, and this Tory government, are taking us!

Marco.

guy

21-07-2021, 12:54

.................
I read some time ago about this doctor who tested himself, a goat and a papaya and all tested positive. Something wrong with the testing perhaps?

Also the testing swabs are sterilised with ethylene oxide, a known carcinogen.
....................

Want a positive result? Just leave it to school kids :) :

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210705-how-children-are-spoofing-covid-19-tests-with-soft-drinks

However, the use of ethylene oxide as a sterilisation method is widespread, any trace contamination by ethylene oxide would be so low as to be insignificant - I think that I read somewhere that you would need to test several times a week for forty years to even register as having been anywhere near the minimum exposure limit.
I would be more concerned about contact with known carcinogens from food and drink packaging to be honest.

I think the ethylene oxide scare started on facebook - I may start one about sticking plasters as many are sterilised using ethylene oxide (alternative being gamma radiation)

https://fullfact.org/online/lateral-flow-tests-ethylene-oxide/

Gazjam

21-07-2021, 12:58

https://i.imgur.com/GbdAzbz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3XEY3mw.jpg

struth

21-07-2021, 15:45

Fewer than one in 12 Covid vaccine recipients reported significant side effects in the week following their jab, an independent study has found.

More than 12,000 people from around the UK have taken part in Dundee University's Vac4Covid survey, which was launched in February.

Almost half of those surveyed said they felt better after receiving the vaccination.

The survey is open to anyone in the UK aged 18 or over.

As of Wednesday morning, 3,987,074 people in Scotland had received the first dose while 3,010,505 had had their second.

The Dundee University team said it was keen to hear from more people aged 18 to 30, and pregnant women who had received their vaccinations.

Recipients of both the Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines took part in the study.

The most commonly reported side effects following a vaccine include fever, headaches and fatigue.
Independent study

The study reported that 7.9% of participants reported a change in their health "which they considered sufficient to disrupt their usual daily activities" in the seven days after receiving their jab.

Dr Amy Rogers from the study team said: "The side effects of Covid-19 vaccination have been a talking point, but the figure of 7.9% is very much in line with what we expect from any vaccination, such as seasonal flu.

"That should make these results very reassuring for anybody still concerned about the possibility of side effects from their Covid-19 vaccination."

The research team found that recipients of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine were more likely to report headaches and fatigue after their first dose.

The team said those who received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine tended to report more side effects after their second dose.

The survey's chief investigator Prof Tom MacDonald said: "This study is completely independent, with no involvement by vaccine manufacturers.

"We believe this is important and means the public can have confidence in our findings."

Marco

21-07-2021, 16:19

All very well and good, mate. However, if ultimately they don't buy us more freedom and a return to the normality we enjoyed once, then what use will they have been?

Gaz is predicting doom and gloom for December (and a return to more lockdowns, despite all these wonderful vaccines), so if he's right, what then?

Marco.

struth

21-07-2021, 16:23

who knows... we are, lets face it, flying by seat of pants to an extent. im not sure we will unless a new variant comes along that is much worse

Marco

21-07-2021, 16:25

Down a little on yesterday: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

I suspect that yesterday's large increase in deaths (from 19 last week) was due to the system catching up with the data. Personally, as I've said, I still don't think we'll get near to the levels of hospitalisations or deaths we had before, and can see it this time peaking around 200 deaths per day, and maybe up to 1500 of hospitalisations.

Anyway, as optimistic/glass half-full guy, I shall stay positive!:cool:

Marco.

sailor

21-07-2021, 18:25

It remains to be seen what the long term effects of the vaccine will be.

Bksabath

21-07-2021, 18:39

Any death is 1 to many

Still nothing about vitamin D on the news
Or Ivermectin and as mentioned here Hidroxicloraquine

Fair enough about promoting the vaccines the figures I seen are about 42 Billions profit for the Big Pharma's
The new spin is to vaccinate children's and maybe give you a third dose = more billions
But do not give it to the ones that can not afford it
My only worry, is that this virus may mutate.

No big deal there is not going to be more deadly, Law of probability applies, the virus does not want to kill you it wants you to catch it and pass it on, I say law of probability applies because is not really alive, it is to small, not a really living thing, chances are that one out of billions mutation will make it find a way to escape the current vaccines.

Remember that big Pharma's does not want to cure you, they want you to get sick over and over for a very long time so they can keep you paying and keep the investors happy, so for now you got a vaccine that only work on a tiny part of the virus and next month/ year they are going to sell you a new one

That is the problem

Marco

21-07-2021, 18:48

It remains to be seen what the long term effects of the vaccine will be.

Indeed, which is one of the reasons why I haven't had one. I've never been a fan of short-term solutions to problems, über alles, which is possibly the case with these new vaccines.

As a relatively young and healthy person, with hopefully many years of the latter still in front of him, 'Hey, I survived Covid, but now suffer from long-term, debilitating vaccine-related side-effects for the rest of my life!', is not a potential 'solution' I'd favour.

Marco.

Marco

21-07-2021, 18:56

Good post, Sandro. And for once it's concise and legible!:ner:;)

Remember that big Pharma's does not want to cure you, they want you to get sick over and over for a very long time so they can keep you paying and keep the investors happy, so for now you got a vaccine that only work on a tiny part of the virus and next month/ year they are going to sell you a new one

That is the problem

Indeed. No doubt that money plays a BIG part in pushing vaccines, now and in the future, and of course with Covid, the fear factor will ensure that the masses keep coming back for more!:doh:

Big pharma and their investors have now discovered a cash-cow that will continue to give, and so won't be willing to relinquish that anytime soon!!

Marco.

Marco

21-07-2021, 22:53

This guy's worth watching and for me talks a lot of sense, especially in relation to the impending division that mask wearing (or non-wearing) will cause when the mandatory requirement for it is removed throughout the UK:

https://youtu.be/H9CyM4HKjBY

'Good guys' will wear them, 'bad guys' won't!:doh: Are you 'compassionate' or not? I can see it now, and also an obvious potential source of conflict.

Heaven help us...

Marco.

Marco

21-07-2021, 23:26

I feel that this famous quote is now both poignant and apt;

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin.

Marco.

guy

22-07-2021, 06:57

Once I had decided to have the vaccine, it was important for me to have the Astra Zeneca because of their joint venture with university of Oford and agreement not to profit from it until pandemic was over:

"Vaxzevria is the result of a non-profit partnership with Oxford University’s Jenner Institute. AstraZeneca pledged not to profit from the vaccine during the pandemic and is selling it for a far lower price than its competitors (around $4 per dose vs. $25 to $37 for Moderna, for example)."

https://qz.com/2003736/how-much-money-is-astrazeneca-making-from-its-covid-vaccine/

Although, admittedly, it is up to AstraZeneca to decide when that time comes.

I found this an interesting read, the first time that I have had any sense of sympathy for a pharmaceutical company :)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56570364

struth

22-07-2021, 12:08

nurse just away. thats me had my second jab.:D 8 weeks and a day

guy

22-07-2021, 14:47

nurse just away. thats me had my second jab.:D 8 weeks and a day

Good to hear (at last) - I felt quite relieved when I had my second.

struth

22-07-2021, 14:57

Good to hear (at last) - I felt quite relieved when I had my second.

cheers, yes it is given me a feeling of hope. a couple of weeks for it to kick in.. so far no reaction again.

Barry

22-07-2021, 15:19

nurse just away. thats me had my second jab.:D 8 weeks and a day

I had to wait 14 weeks before I received my second jab! :(

Barry

22-07-2021, 15:23

My partner is trying to arrange an appointment for her second jab. It should be an Astra-Zeneca vaccine, but none are available where she lives! :doh:

struth

22-07-2021, 15:26

My partner is trying to arrange an appointment for her second jab. It should be an Astra-Zeneca vaccine, but none are available where she lives! :doh:

apparenty you can mix them if you need to safely. in fact it might even be better.

hifi_dave

22-07-2021, 16:30

nurse just away. thats me had my second jab.:D 8 weeks and a day

:thumbsup:

Yes, the scientists reckon a mix of vaccines is a bit more effective. Apparently, when we have the booster, it will be a different one to the previous two.

Marco

22-07-2021, 17:16

apparenty you can mix them if you need to safely. in fact it might even be better.

...to create a cocktail of?;)

I think I'll stick to employing the services of a different mixologist! Now, where's my Strawberry Daiquiri?:D Anyway mate, glad you've got that second prick you wanted!:eyebrows:

Marco.

Marco

22-07-2021, 17:18

Still hovering around the 100-mark, which at the moment is pretty much where I'd expect it to be: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Marco.

struth

22-07-2021, 17:20

...to create a cocktail of?;)

I think I'll stick to employing the services of a different mixologist! Now, where's my Strawberry Daiquiri?:D Anyway mate, glad you've got that second prick you wanted!:eyebrows:

Marco.

nurse said it was a big un:eyebrows: ooh matron!!

struth

22-07-2021, 17:24

Still hovering around the 100-mark, which at the moment is pretty much where I'd expect it to be: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Marco.

scottish deaths are too high but cases are lower than elsewhere, suggesting the older cases are dying off. Boris wont be worried if they are old folk tho;) bastid!

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7CDB/production/_119536913_bbcpostcardpress.jpg

you can move decimal point to right one place to scale up to uk

Marco

22-07-2021, 17:25

A nice 'warm injection'?:lol:

Marco.

struth

22-07-2021, 17:25

A nice 'warm injection'?:lol:

Marco.

pumped:D

Moonshadow

22-07-2021, 17:50

I also admire the 'King of Scotland', such a shame he is unable to pursue his proper vocation now due to the current political mire.

Another famous quote that is IMO pertinent now - "There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know." - John Heywood, English writer.

And a light take on vaccines in the spirit of the Two Ronnies - https://twitter.com/GillianKearney3/status/1415752152358731791?s=20

Cheers

system7

22-07-2021, 20:12

My neighbour Colin told me he was warned by Twitter or Facebook that he was veering toward a ban for Covid disinformation.

Colin has steadfastly refused two jabs. He apparently is concerned what is put into the Divine Temple of his Body. He trusts to God.

Perfectly happy with MMR and Polio Jabs. But here he draws a line. :scratch:

Anyhoo, the issue is Sir. Patrick Vallance announced that 60% of people in Hospital have had two jabs on Monday or Tuesday.

I was scratching my head on that. I've had me two Pfizers and am feeling pretty confident to survive the Plague.

Actually Sir. Patrick has now corrected himself. It was a Brain-Fart. 60% of people in Hospital have NOT had two jabs. Like Colin.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vallance-corrects-mistake-to-say-60-of-people-being-admitted-to-hospital-with-coronavirus-are-unvaccinated-12359317

Colin did not do due diligence. I think he is going to die. Or even if he survives has a 20% chance of heart damage and long Covid. Even my young neighbours now have the Plague. Confined to bedrooms. Along with poor Mum. Not bothered to get their jabs, of course. Rates have doubled this week in Pompey, doubtless due to the Euros Football watched in stuffy Pubs. :lol:

Bksabath

23-07-2021, 06:16

Actually Sir. Patrick has now corrected himself. It was a Brain-Fart. 60% of people in Hospital have NOT had two jabs. Like Colin.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vallance-corrects-mistake-to-say-60-of-people-being-admitted-to-hospital-with-coronavirus-are-unvaccinated-12359317

Or he could have said that 40% of the people in hospital had two Jabs

Bur this would have been bad spin as most of the electorate can't do 100 - 60 = 40 made much worst whit that symbol that one mostly type by mistake above the 5

So if most peoples had the 2 Jabs what is it? 86 %? and the rest 34 % ? has not out of 100 in hospital by having the vaccine one is only about 1/4 or 1/5 less prone to end up in hospital

Vaccines = no so good as they tell you

You may not die from the Fauci virus if you had the vaccine, which is just what is wanted from you from big pharma, there you go one more happy returning customer

It would be much better if Vitamin D is discussed in the main stream media and Ivermectin and such get studied properly

Macca

23-07-2021, 06:52

Or he could have said that 40% of the people in hospital had two Jabs

Bur this would have been bad spin as most of the electorate can't do 100 - 60 = 40 made much worst whit that symbol that one mostly type by mistake above the 5

So if most peoples had the 2 Jabs what is it? 86 %? and the rest 34 % ? has not out of 100 in hospital by having the vaccine one is only about 1/4 or 1/5 less prone to end up in hospital

Vaccines = no so good as they tell you

You may not die from the Fauci virus if you had the vaccine, which is just what is wanted from you from big pharma, there you go one more happy returning customer

It would be much better if Vitamin D is discussed in the main stream media and Ivermectin and such get studied properly

So you're still far more likely to require hospital treatment if you haven't been vaccinated. I've seen figures as high as 80%. Not really much more to say is there?

I'm all in favour of people being allowed to make their own irrational decisions and live with the consequences. But when it comes to encouraging others to follow their example it gets very close to, possibly even crosses, the acceptable limits of freedom of speech. Essentially the same as shouting 'Fire' in a crowded theatre.

Bksabath

23-07-2021, 06:54

Oxford’s PRINCIPLE Trial: Ivermectin Being Considered as Part of the Study (trialsitenews.com) (https://trialsitenews.com/oxfords-principle-trial-bringing-ivermectin-directly-into-the-developed-world-in-the-battle-against-covid-19-2/#:~:text=The%20University%20of%20Oxford%20soon%20k icks%20%E2%80%9Cthe%20PRINCIPLE,via%20the%20Depart ment%20of%20Health%20and%20Social%20Care.)

Long paper
Just a quote from it

Because the FLCCC physicians are convinced the meta-analyses research from both sides of the Atlantic points to a clear case of efficacy, they worry about the control group patients. As the group maintains that the existing evidence for Ivermectin is overwhelmingly indicative that the medicine is highly effective in reducing hospitalization, inhibiting transmission and lowering COVID-19 death rates as well as accelerating viral clearance, they cannot morally support a placebo-controlled study at this point.
They believe it’s a mistake and that the Oxford PRINCIPLE Trial should be designed as a dose-finding study and/or sophisticated observational study. Kory told TrialSite, “It is grossly unethical to enroll patients in a placebo-controlled trial. Such a study will lead to harm to the control group.” What he means is that from their perspective, because the drug is known to work, purposely not giving the control group that drug brings a heavy burden on those funding and designing the study.

Bksabath

23-07-2021, 07:10

Macca

23-07-2021, 07:27

So Martin
Would you like to see more discussion about Vitamin D on the main stream media ?
Do we need to know if it works or not?
An if so
Would you agree that Ivermectin deserves to be fully investigated?

would not those from what we know so far further increase your chances not to end up in hospital?

and possibly take the Ro number below 1 ( Ro < 1 = no more Fauci virus)

would not the 3 millions and over human being that have immune suppressant problems just in this country deserve to see this information?

I think vitamin D can't hurt but prior to the pandemic there was a lot of discussion about vitamin D in the mainstream media with regards to the widespread issue of vitamin D deficiency. I've been taking a vitamin D supplement for years.

Ivermectin is being studied, the link you provided is all about that. My understanding as a non-medical professional is that as it is a steroid-based drug it is not without potential side effects therefore it's probably not wise to hand it out like candy if in fact there is no benefit.

I think the suggestion that it is an established cure that is simply being supressed by 'Big Pharma' is risible. I think the suggestion that taking vitamin D as a potential aid to immunity is being suppressed and deliberately not being covered by the 'msm' is also risible. Hope that clarifies.

Marco

23-07-2021, 07:32

I'm all in favour of people being allowed to make their own irrational decisions and live with the consequences. But when it comes to encouraging others to follow their example it gets very close to, possibly even crosses, the acceptable limits of freedom of speech.

Just to be clear. what are you referring to as "irrational decisions" - choosing not to have a vaccine, or what?:)

Also, one man's 'rational' could be another man's 'irrational'. Not everyone has to sign up to your notion of rationality.

Marco.

Bksabath

23-07-2021, 07:51

Marco

23-07-2021, 08:04

Hi Marco
What is your position given that:
The Vaccine may stop you requiring hospitalization for a unknown and made very confusing amount of instances for argument sake call it 1/4 less chances
The Vaccine have low probability shorth term side effects and unknown long term side effects
You may require a new vaccine next year
The vaccine open the gateway for the Fauci virus to mutate
The Vaccine does not give you natural immunity as would you get by contracting the Virus

Would you agree whit those points?

If you take it or not is entirely your choice.

Hi Sandro,

My position is very clear on the above: in a free and democratic country, people should be able to do what THEY think is RIGHT/rational for THEM, based on THEIR judgement criteria, and that choice should subsequently be RESPECTED (not ridiculed or condemned) by others, who may disagree and equally have exercised their RIGHT to do something else.

I also disagree that someone's perfectly valid stance, such as yours (and many others), on possible alternative ways to successfully treat this virus, and the influence in that respect of big pharma, is 'risible'.

For me, that choice of language is both disrespectful and derogatory. By all means, disagree and therefore challenge that statement or observation, as robustly (but politely) as necessary, but don't LAUGH at it, as that's only liable to get someone's back up, who's simply committed the heinous crime of thinking differently!:rolleyes:

Anything that seeks to stifle free thinking/the right to be an individual, and make you comply with 'the norm'/behaviour of the masses, is more dangerous than anything else, and a sure route towards fascism!

Marco.

guy

23-07-2021, 08:27

Hi Sandro,

My position is very clear on the above: in a free and democratic country, people should be able to do what THEY think is RIGHT/rational for THEM, based on THEIR judgement criteria, and that choice should subsequently be RESPECTED (not ridiculed or condemned) by others, who may disagree and equally have exercised their RIGHT to do something else.

I also disagree that someone's perfectly valid stance, such as yours (and many others), on possibly alternative ways to successfully treat this virus, and the influence in that respect of big pharma, is 'risible'.

For me, that choice of language is both disrespectful and derogatory. By all means, disagree and therefore challenge that statement or observation, as robustly (but politely) as necessary, but don't LAUGH at it, as that's only liable to get someone's back up, who's simply committed the heinous crime of thinking differently!:rolleyes:

Anything that seeks to stifle free thinking/the right to be an individual, and make you comply with 'the norm'/behaviour of the masses, is more dangerous than anything else, and a sure route towards fascism!

Marco.

Hi Marco,

You need to be careful with statements like that, some idiots will always try to take advantage of a general "right" to do as they please (often in the name of religion).

I have sympathy with what you are thinking, but there need to be caveats or some people will take advantage, for example "the children of god" :

Its founder, David Berg, told members that God was love and love was sex, so there should be no limits, regardless of age or relationship. Berg's cult spread and claimed to have 10,000 full-time members in 130 communities around the world by the 1970s.

Marco

23-07-2021, 08:49

Bksabath

23-07-2021, 09:03

Cool we agree then
Could you make your position 100 % clear by ticking yes or no on each of the bullet points on my posts 8413 and 8416

Martin IMO fail to provide any meaningless opinion and this is a typical example of the endemic response one get from the main stream media and establishment
"would you like to see more discussion about vitamin D in the main stream media?" would require simple and honest yes or no answer and I commend the skill and waste of space that he employs, I am not going to keep going on and ask him over and and over answer the question as wee seen done on same major Networks far to fascionable a trend of late I may add

About the "Risible" rant that is his personal opinion he is totally entitle to it and it is on record for when the conspiracy disproved or not

I do not find any relevance to it to my post 8413

Possibly it has same relevance to same of my previous posts

Maybe the ones stating "big pharmas have not interest in curing you they want returning customers" where is the conspiracy in that?
Is like saying that Car manufacturer want to sell you a car and keep making money when you buy spare parts or get a service done on it.

I believe he decided that I am wearing a tin hat or such
I believe that he know how much consequence I will place on any of his views:eyebrows:

I am asking you and you all in general to put a tick yes or know on any of those questions, keep it private if you like, but do act on it for your own and love ones.

Keep going on about conspiracy as well if you like I will keep calling this the Fauci virus till you show me the spill over animal that aledgdley caused this mess. What is it now 19 months and counting?

Filterlab

23-07-2021, 09:40

He trusts to God.

LOL! Well, I wish him the best of luck with that. :lol:

guy

23-07-2021, 10:30

Yes, I completely agree, but then you're talking about extremism, and in my opinion, ALL forms of extremism are bad (religious, political or whatever), so that should be controlled.

However, it's quite different effectively bullying others into behaving the same as you, simply because you think that you're 'right' or more 'rational' than they are, especially when their alternative behaviour is perfectly valid and reasonable.

It's a form of brainwashing/coercion I'm deadly against, and that is also incompatible with a democracy, and which subsequently can create dangerous divisions, leading to the eroding of freedoms.

I've not been in England yet since the wearing of masks was made non-mandatory, so what's it been like? Are folks not wearing masks being frowned upon/discriminated against, or worse, for exercising their (now) legal free choice?

If you haven't seen that happening yet, then I predict it'll come, especially when, in that respect, the rest of the UK shortly follows suit. And that's what happens when a precedent is set for allowing people to persecute others for not thinking the same as THEM, and doing what THEY think they should be doing instead!:doh:

Marco.

Not much different with respect to face masks. at least in my experience. My last visit to Tesco was fairly relaxed (although being retired I can go during a weekday). Some were wearing masks, others weren't no friction between the groups (I still wear mine).

I think that the shit will hit the fan when government tries to reintroduce restrictions. Awful position for any government to be in, but I think that general public are getting pissed off with the prevarication and what seems to be different rules for different people.
The mixed messages (and special treatment for the "elite" - I don't need to isolate because I am taking part in a special trial for VIP's :lol:), ignore being "pinged" if you are a hospital worker (ok fair enough), becomes ignore being pinged if you are a shelf stacker, dustman? (sorry refuse operative :doh:), milkman (dairy person), lorry driver? well, where the hell do you draw the line? Surely, we are all "essential workers" - with the exception of reality show "celebrities" and internet "influencers".

The above then ties in with my concern regarding your comment :

"ALL forms of extremism are bad (religious, political or whatever), so that should be controlled.

However, it's quite different effectively bullying others into behaving the same as you, simply because you think that you're 'right' or more 'rational' than they are, especially when their alternative behaviour is perfectly valid and reasonable. "

who decides what is extreme or rational?
David Berg (and his 10,000 sect members) thought it quite normal for him to have sex with his children and grandchildren. Israeli government think it is ok for Palestinians to be forcibly removed from their homes by "settlers", some people think it is their right to leave their dog excrement on the pavement.

Sorry for the ramble, but I think it is very unwise to let people do whatever they think is reasonable - some people are real arseholes.

God I feel confused. Like you I believe in people having freedom, its just that you can't trust anyone to make the right decision in any given circumstance.

Marco

23-07-2021, 11:00

We're largely on the same page, but as I said, any form of extremism, such as you describe, is always problematic and usually leads to unsavoury behaviour.

In that respect (in reference to extremism) there's a big difference between not wearing a mask and having sex with children!

Therefore, such forms of extreme behaviour MUST be controlled and prevented, but that certainly doesn't extend to governments having the power to DICTATE what you should do, as far as having a vaccine, so as ever it's a question of balance.

As for the pinging nonsense, well I've always said that smartphones are wide open to being abused by the authorities, in order to impose control on people, and now we've got tangible proof of such... Quite simply, if you didn't have a smartphone, you couldn't be pinged!!;)

And how many of these 'pings' are the result of false positives? Plenty, more than likely, so you've got folk isolating and not being able to work, potentially on the basis of a falsehood... Crazy! Yet the sheeple do what they're told and simply all too eagerly fall into line, at what consequence to their livelihoods or well-being?

And it will only get worse... People have been 'slaves to bleeps' for years, with their bloody phones, now they're slaves to 'pings'. What next, in terms of being controlled by technology?? Jump when you're told to jump, smile when you're told to smile, or DANCE when you're told to DANCE??

The world is turning more into a fascist shithole everyday, and I refuse to be part of it.

Marco [free-thinker and freedom fighter, who lives in a ping-free zone, now and forever].

Bksabath

23-07-2021, 11:01

I think that the shit will hit the fan when government tries to reintroduce restrictions.
The mixed messages (and special treatment for the "elite" - I don't need to isolate because I am taking part in a special trial for VIP's :lol:), ignore being "pinged" if you are a hospital worker (ok fair enough), becomes ignore being pinged if you are a shelf stacker, dustman? (sorry refuse operative :doh:), milkman (dairy person), lorry driver? well, where the hell do you draw the line? Surely, we are all "essential workers" - with the exception of reality show "celebrities" and internet "influencers".

The government declared I wash my hand of it day, also known as freedom day, Just 2 weeks before they all go for the well deserved and payed for by me and you 6 weeks August Vacation

So that they can do as they please and not having to resign when and if they get caught

What ever happens is going to be your fault, my fault and the Arseholes you mention What ever happens includes even If they re-introduce the restriction

Scariest off all is the exemption of Food industry workers.

Before you put that fork in your mouth remember that the Fauci virus survives in frozen food.

struth

23-07-2021, 11:09

well again no after effects of the jab; thats both been free; not even a sore arm. not sure if its a good thing or bad thing disease wise of course..

guy

23-07-2021, 11:20

.........................................

Before you put that fork in your mouth remember that the Fauci virus survives in frozen food.

Not just the "Fauci virus", not just frozen food:

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2020/07/03/arctic-permafrost-pandemic-life-uh-finds-a-way/

https://i.postimg.cc/k59KrQBw/tenor.gif (https://postimages.org/)

Macca

23-07-2021, 11:55

Just to be clear. what are you referring to as "irrational decisions" - choosing not to have a vaccine, or what?:)

Also, one man's 'rational' could be another man's 'irrational'. Not everyone has to sign up to your notion of rationality.

Marco.

yes - it is my opinion that declining to be vaccinated is irrational. But that is only my opinion and the opinion of pretty much all qualified medical personnel.

Obviously I still think it is an individual's right to refuse the vaccine regardless of that. I think that encouraging others to refuse it also is crossing a line though.

Marco

23-07-2021, 12:07

yes - it is my opinion that declining to be vaccinated is irrational. But that is only my opinion and the opinion of pretty much all qualified medical personnel.

I take your point, but I'm not sure I've heard any of the latter saying that it's 'irrational'. For me, there's no need to use that word, in order to make the point that you think people would be well advised to take the vaccine.

Obviously I still think it is an individual's right to refuse the vaccine regardless of that. I think that encouraging others to refuse it also is crossing a line though.

I agree, but then it's happening the other way too, isn't it? Although, I'd suggest 'encouraging' bordering on enforcing... So your valid point cuts both ways, in terms of it crossing the line.

Marco.

Macca

23-07-2021, 12:08

Cool we agree then
Could you make your position 100 % clear by ticking yes or no on each of the bullet points on my posts 8413 and 8416

Martin IMO fail to provide any meaningless opinion and this is a typical example of the endemic response one get from the main stream media and establishment
"would you like to see more discussion about vitamin D in the main stream media?" would require simple and honest yes or no answer and I commend the skill and waste of space that he employs, I am not going to keep going on and ask him over and and over answer the question as wee seen done on same major Networks far to fascionable a trend of late I may add

It seems to be commonplace these days to assume that it is the job of the media to accurately inform people. With the exception (in theory) of the BBC it isn't and never has been. It is the job of the media to make a profit for their shareholders so they will run with stories that do that. If they thought that Vit D stories would attract views they would run them. If they aren't running them then clearly they don't.

It's not their purpose to perform a public service.

Surviving the virus is dependant on overall physical health and fitness of which having an adequate level of Vit D is only one tiny part.

This is not a 'yes' or 'no' answer because the question relates to something that is , like most things, too complex for a simple yes or no answer to make any sense.

I suppose for people who like to see the world in simple terms - us against them, good guys vs bad guys, there's always someone to blame, all bad things that happen are part of an evil conspiracy - this can be frustrating. But there's not much I can do about that.

guy

23-07-2021, 12:19

1 in 75 people in England are reported to have Covid; reinfection rate is relatively low - how long before whole population has had it and we don't need to worry?

struth

23-07-2021, 12:51

5 weeks ago this was state of play with antibodies. its a bit higher last one i saw but cant find it at moment. scotland was at 89 and england over 91.

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/23961.jpeg

hifi_dave

23-07-2021, 13:17

well again no after effects of the jab; thats both been free; not even a sore arm. not sure if its a good thing or bad thing disease wise of course..

If you haven't got a sore arm it is most likely numb and in the process of dropping off. A rare side effect..:eek:

hifi_dave

23-07-2021, 13:19

1 in 75 people in England are reported to have Covid; reinfection rate is relatively low - how long before whole population has had it and we don't need to worry?
Depends on whether you are likely to die of it or not.

Stryder5

23-07-2021, 13:53

Not much different with respect to face masks. at least in my experience. My last visit to Tesco was fairly relaxed (although being retired I can go during a weekday). Some were wearing masks, others weren't no friction between the groups (I still wear mine).

I think that the shit will hit the fan when government tries to reintroduce restrictions. Awful position for any government to be in, but I think that general public are getting pissed off with the prevarication and what seems to be different rules for different people.
The mixed messages (and special treatment for the "elite" - I don't need to isolate because I am taking part in a special trial for VIP's :lol:), ignore being "pinged" if you are a hospital worker (ok fair enough), becomes ignore being pinged if you are a shelf stacker, dustman? (sorry refuse operative :doh:), milkman (dairy person), lorry driver? well, where the hell do you draw the line? Surely, we are all "essential workers" - with the exception of reality show "celebrities" and internet "influencers".

The above then ties in with my concern regarding your comment :

"ALL forms of extremism are bad (religious, political or whatever), so that should be controlled.

However, it's quite different effectively bullying others into behaving the same as you, simply because you think that you're 'right' or more 'rational' than they are, especially when their alternative behaviour is perfectly valid and reasonable. "

who decides what is extreme or rational?
David Berg (and his 10,000 sect members) thought it quite normal for him to have sex with his children and grandchildren. Israeli government think it is ok for Palestinians to be forcibly removed from their homes by "settlers", some people think it is their right to leave their dog excrement on the pavement.

Sorry for the ramble, but I think it is very unwise to let people do whatever they think is reasonable - some people are real arseholes.

God I feel confused. Like you I believe in people having freedom, its just that you can't trust anyone to make the right decision in any given circumstance.

I have found it difficult for a while now to rationalise many actions that this Government has put in place, the latest:-

“Test and Trace” (or is it the NHS app, I get confused) app, I believe the intention was to record people with positive results from a PCR test (:mental:), then if you had “contact” with said person you were pinged on the app to isolate. Now we seem to have exemptions that seem to negate the reason for the app. So if you’re in any of the exemption categories (that are still carrying the virus) like food, transportation or whatever, then you still have to open doors, use toilets, handle food etc but you’re allowed relative freedom to infect? OK you may have to mask up, wearing it in various positions, continually touching and fiddling with it, transferring anything that may have been collected onto anything you touch.

Now I know you to be tested by RAT (aptly named) daily but under T&T and PCR contact you’re guilty? So ignore T&T and PCR?

I have heard that various people with jobs such as police, NHS workers and so on have been told to delete the app?

Am I in the minority in thinking that whoever the decision makers, guided by Science when it suits, has a f**king clue? One great cock up after another.

Oh I agree about freedom time coincidentally timed with tossers 6 week holiday! You really couldn’t make this up!

Gary

Gazjam

23-07-2021, 14:25

If you haven't got a sore arm it is most likely numb and in the process of dropping off. A rare side effect..:eek:

:lol:
Typing with one hand here...

Marco

23-07-2021, 15:19

Aye, apparently another common side-effect is a numbness in your middle leg... Fortunately though, it's only been reported in the over 65s, who rarely use theirs (so not so much numb, but dead), and in some cases, haven't been seen for years!:D

Marco.

Marco

23-07-2021, 15:21

Bksabath

23-07-2021, 15:30

Nearly 90% that would be in the domain wanted to achieve herd immunity

Great news if true

No more testing required when going abroad and camming back at £60 a pop

Can I get an antibody test please and carry on whit a normal life ?

Marco

23-07-2021, 15:48

Down to 64 now, but with slightly higher hospitalisations: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

The death stats now are showing a very different trend, compared with before during the previous waves of the pandemic, where deaths (and hospitalisations) simply went up and up, and up, until reaching their peak.

Now they're not only up and down, but levelling off at a grossly lower level, which suggests that vaccines are working, and if going forward that situation continues, further lockdowns will be unwarranted and simply not needed.

Marco.

Gazjam

23-07-2021, 18:45

mad-moon

24-07-2021, 01:09

https://i.imgur.com/GEB2KmH.jpg

https://imgur.com/a/q1PUgjD

https://imgur.com/a/q1PUgjD

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/ministers-letting-young-people-catch-covid-to-prepare-for-winter-sage-adviser-claims?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/23/ministers-letting-young-people-catch-covid-to-prepare-for-winter-sage-adviser-claims?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)

Bastards.

Illegitimate sons and daughters of pigs...My missus has just tested positive, with a lateral flow test... I wonder if I'll catch it too...in lockdown for 12 days...PCR tests ordered

Lawrence001

24-07-2021, 02:01

struth

24-07-2021, 08:19

Illegitimate sons and daughters of pigs...My missus has just tested positive, with a lateral flow test... I wonder if I'll catch it too...in lockdown for 12 days...PCR tests ordered

hopefully she doesnt get ill

Gazjam

24-07-2021, 08:41

Gazjam

24-07-2021, 08:46

Stryder5

24-07-2021, 09:17

If you haven't got a sore arm it is most likely numb and in the process of dropping off. A rare side effect..:eek:

Would that be a left side effect or a right side effect?:D

Gary

Marco

24-07-2021, 09:22

Marco

24-07-2021, 09:32

Oh It's definitely a strategy...

Agree we need to get back to as close to pre pandemic lifestyle if we can,
Unfortunate thing is we could have been there by now.

(a la New Zealand)

But hey.

Agree on all of that, so how does it sit with your December 'doomsday' scenario?;)

Remember, we're supposed to be comparing cases/deaths, etc, then? So are you saying that the strategy, as outlined above, will fail or what?:)

Marco.

Bksabath

24-07-2021, 10:22

If that surmise is right then it's better than I thought ie they have a strategy to make things better in winter, rather than just letting everyone do that they want and not worry about the consequences.

After more than a year of restrictions I think the time is right to look at strategies that allow most people to get close to a pre pandemic lifestyle if they prefer.

Or maybe, whit a bit of fantasy and a tin hat, or knowing what kind of peoples you have voted in, (mind you other half is exactley the same) one can surmise that that is the spin they put on it so that they can go on holiday while the headless chickens run around the court yard screaming we are free and are picked at random for the pot?

What about the strategy to promote the general well being of the population by testing for low level of vitamin D and distributing same very inexpensive vitamins
OR caring out anti- gen test to prove that you may already had the virus and so are relatively safe to do as you please

Those are just 2 examples

Bksabath

24-07-2021, 10:31

Oh It's definitely a strategy...

Agree we need to get back to as close to pre pandemic lifestyle if we can,
Unfortunate thing is we could have been there by now.

(a la New Zealand)

But hey.

Yes things could have been much better , for the plebs, if they closed the borders straight away in January 2020 and again when the Delta variant was mapped. But you can not say that nor mention New Zealand.

Bksabath

24-07-2021, 10:53

IHT_Commentary.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk) (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/903290/IHT_Commentary.pdf)

This is an old chart is due to be updated on the 30 ish of July
The income from inheritance tax lags by 6 months or more

Details

This publication contains information about Inheritance Tax (IHT) in the UK. It includes information on IHT receipts, the estates that pay IHT, the use of tax reliefs and exemptions, and the asset composition of estates left on death.
Receipts data is available for the 2019 to 2020 tax year as this information is based on payments received by HMRC.
Other data relating to the composition of estates, to the use of reliefs and to the tax due on estates is provided for estates passing on death in the 2017 to 2018 tax year.
The delay is due to both the 6-month lag from date of death to when the IHT becomes due and subsequent time lags while the data from tax returns is prepared for analysis on HMRC’s databases.

Gazjam

24-07-2021, 11:28

Agree on all of that, so how does it sit with your December 'doomsday' scenario?;)

Remember, we're supposed to be comparing cases/deaths, etc, then? So are you saying that the strategy, as outlined above, will fail or what?:)

Marco.

It's going to spectacularly fail, like everything else with this Government's handling of the Pandemic.
Netherlands followed a similar path to what's being imposed on us, and they backtracked immediately when "the numbers" spiked out of control.

They panicked, said they made a mistake and went back into lockdown.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-netherlands-masks-idUSKBN26L2T3

Fortunately our lot is good at U Turns, so I predict (as part of my Doomwatch scenario :D) so expecting another U Turn around the corner.

struth

24-07-2021, 11:34

indeed but their vax rates are nowhere near ours. it might make the difference? i dont see another major lockdown, at least in near future.
scotland has kept masks and distancing for now, and our rates are dropping

Lawrence001

24-07-2021, 12:23

If the vac rates are close to as high as they'll ever be (in adults at least) then this is the new normal bar further research and more effective vacs. Which is why I think if we can't go ahead now when will we? Because permanent semi lockdown or regular full lockdowns are not an option for an open society.

system7

24-07-2021, 14:26

I can't make sense of the government relaxing on facemasks at all. Most people are still wearing them, because they work and cost nothing really, and vaccination should be complete in 2 months which is the ideal scenario to get antibodies into 95% of people.

The other 5% are in denial. They will get their antibodies the hard way. In the barbers yesterday, a local beery laddo was telling the patient barber that covid is bollocks and he's not getting jabbed. The barber mentioned he'd had the Covid, and he was coughing his guts up for 4 days in bed. Never felt worse. Also mentioned one of his staff had lost two cousins to the Covid. One only 47years old and seemingly healthy.

Young AJ next door is in bed. You recall he put off getting his first jab. His girlfriend is negative so far, but hasn't seen him for a week. Has swollen painful feet and the rest of it. I lent his isolating mum a thermometer and got her some 25ug Vitamin D. She has today had two positive Flow tests and the two PCR ones are on the way. Got a bit of a cold at this stage. She has had two Astra-Zenecas. Currently fanatical about the healthy diet, lots of orange juice and vegetables.

AJ is a bit grumpy at the moment, told Mum he didn't want his temperature taken. I suggested she keeps the thermometer for herself with suitable disinfection, of course.

That's the end of the Covid News in my street. :)

Marco

24-07-2021, 14:52

I can't make sense of the government relaxing on facemasks at all. Most people are still wearing them, because they work and cost nothing really, and vaccination should be complete in 2 months which is the ideal scenario to get antibodies into 95% of people.

The other 5% are in denial.

I'm certainly NOT, along with plenty more like me, so please don't make such ignorant assumptions!

Remember, my wife had Covid, pretty seriously too, and despite living with her in close proximity, 24/7, I got fuck all. Therefore, although of course nothing's ever guaranteed, if I didn't catch it from her, I'm rather unlikely to catch it from anyone else.

I've also been all over the place recently, mixing with many different people in different environments, and I'm fine, so I'll take my chances, thank you very much, without any 'jabs' - so please remember that in future and acknowledge it as a perfectly reasonable course of action.

Just because someone doesn't sign up to your notion of 'reality', doesn't make them "in denial":nono:

If you're fit and healthy (and not old - count me in), then have faith in your God-given immune system!:exactly:

Marco.

Marco

24-07-2021, 14:58

It's going to spectacularly fail, like everything else with this Government's handling of the Pandemic.
Netherlands followed a similar path to what's being imposed on us, and they backtracked immediately when "the numbers" spiked out of control.

They panicked, said they made a mistake and went back into lockdown.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-netherlands-masks-idUSKBN26L2T3

Fortunately our lot is good at U Turns, so I predict (as part of my Doomwatch scenario :D) so expecting another U Turn around the corner.

Lol... I get that, and partially agree, certainly about U-turns, but if hardly anyone is dying, and realistically that's unlikely to change, for all the reasons discussed, then how can things "spectacularly fail"?

As I've said before, the only numbers that *really* matter are deaths and/or those left with nasty side-effects from long Covid, so I won't be fretting over any numbers other than those, and as long as there are no more national lockdowns anytime soon, and life returns to near-normal, I'll be a reasonably happy bunny!:)

Marco.

Gazjam

24-07-2021, 16:27

As we all should try to be Sir!
Mental positivity plays a massive part in general well being as we both know.
Physically though, can be a different matter, especially those who are immune compromised.

No numbers unfortunately on Long Covid, how could there be.
I think were still at the "wait and see" stage of all this?
Still treading carefully here, no problems with wearing a mask, even if there's a chance it will protect someone else.

One thing Bawjaws de Pfeffel Johnson (or this weeks favorite think tank) got right, was personal responsibility.
Do whats right for you, not what your told!

On that, you and I are 101% percent in agreement! :cool:

Lol... I get that, and partially agree, certainly about U-turns, but if hardly anyone is dying, and realistically that's unlikely to change, for all the reasons discussed, then how can things "spectacularly fail"?

As I've said before, the only numbers that *really* matter are deaths and/or those left with nasty side-effects from long Covid, so I won't be fretting over any numbers other than those, and as long as there are no more national lockdowns anytime soon, and life returns to near-normal, I'll be a reasonably happy bunny!:)

Marco.

hifi_dave

24-07-2021, 16:29

struth

24-07-2021, 16:56

Australia and New Zealand both locked down early and so cases are low. Trouble is, they haven't done much about vaccination so their populations are not protected and when they do open up, it will be nasty for them.

yes n zealand have done well but are an exception travel wise; a bit like australia, both being way out south, unlike britain which is a world hub and its difficult to really shut down. As said their vax efforts i dont think have been good, and oz instant lockdowns after a 100 cases is maybe not going to get them anywhere fast either.
There is no doubt that it can be a balancing act at times and although we have done some things well, we have cocked up too much

system7

24-07-2021, 18:47

Surprising statistic here. This was testing done April to June. By which time most people over 60 to a later 40 had had their jabs.

How many people testing positive for Covid-19 are asymptomatic?

Turns out it is an astonishing 75%! I thought it was 1 in 3 TBH.

COVID-19 symptoms are poor markers of SARS-CoV-2. Thus, 76.5% of this random sample, which tested positive reported no symptoms, and 86.1% reported none of those specific to COVID-19. A more widespread testing program is necessary to capture “silent” transmission and potentially prevent and reduce future outbreaks,” the team concluded in the study.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201009/86-percent-of-the-UKs-COVID-19-patients-have-no-symptoms.aspx

What does this mean for 4 reasonably healthy married couples who picked up the germ? Likely two out of four will have one partner ill and one with no symptoms at all. Remind you of anyone?

All four couples will have some future immunity one supposes. All four couples were potential spreaders.

Some good news:

Recent figures suggest the vaccination programme has reduced hospital admissions and deaths, with a fewer than one in 1,000 infections now estimated to result in death - compared with one in 60 during last winter.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57933108

Gazjam

24-07-2021, 19:03

"We...don't...know...Yet"

Sadly.

Marco

24-07-2021, 19:34

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201009/86-percent-of-the-UKs-COVID-19-patients-have-no-symptoms.aspx

What does this mean for 4 reasonably healthy married couples who picked up the germ? Likely two out of four will have one partner ill and one with no symptoms at all. Remind you of anyone?

Nope... Could you clarify please, and also on exactly what point you're making, as I've no idea?:hmm:

Marco.

mad-moon

24-07-2021, 21:52

Bksabath

25-07-2021, 06:00

Nope... Could you clarify please, and also on exactly what point you're making, as I've no idea?:hmm:

Marco.

Well maybe he is saying that asymptomatic husband passed it on to the wife without knowing and then a week later while wife started showing symptoms and then got poorly.
Blipping fool, :D
he was expecting to catch it from the wife but he never did.

Would it not be nice to get an antigen test and put it all to rest?

Bksabath

25-07-2021, 06:10

Ministers 'fear coronavirus could be spread by farting in a confined space' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ministers-fear-coronavirus-could-be-spread-by-farting-in-a-confined-space/ar-AAMwlmV?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531)

There you go such husband could have let it rip undercover (as you do) and that was the clincher:lol::eyebrows:

Marco

25-07-2021, 07:14

Thanks for the kind words folks...She is a lot worse than me...it's like a heavy case of the flu...PCR test on Monday..I'm bloody hopeless with flu like colds..like a big kid in fact..but I'll have to take care of the missus..ho hum...looks like my glass has just half emptied again...Is there anything else, that could possibly be piled on top of all this shit?..I'm starting to lose my balance..

Really sorry to hear that, mate. Yeah defo take care of her. As has been said loads of times, apart from anything else you're doing, pump her full of Vitamin D. Get some tablets or whatever, honestly it works.

Monitor her condition though, and if it gets worse (don't want it turning into pneumonia) call the Covid helpline and have a doctor assess her condition, or if you think she needs it, just phone an ambulance. It's important to catch it as soon as possible if she starts to deteriorate. It might just seem like a heavy case of flu (which is bad enough), but don't let it get any worse!

And of course look after yourself. Keep us posted.

Marco.

Marco

25-07-2021, 07:21

Well maybe he is saying that asymptomatic husband passed it on to the wife without knowing and then a week later while wife started showing symptoms and then got poorly.
Blipping fool, :D
he was expecting to catch it from the wife but he never did.

Ah I see.. Anything's possible, of course. However, there were no vaccines around when my wife caught it, and I hadn't been going anywhere. It was after the lifting of the first lockdown and the students had gone back to college, and her along with about 6 other teachers who'd been in the same room as her came down with symptoms, so that seems a bit of a coincidence.

As you know, kids, schools, colleges, etc, are massive breeding ground for germs of all kinds!:doh:

Marco.

guy

25-07-2021, 08:25

Bksabath

25-07-2021, 10:23

Bksabath

25-07-2021, 10:36

Let us all hope that my puppy never gets a Covid strain then :lol:

puppy ?
That is cryptic please expand over "puppy"

I would not worry over much of what is in this kind of news, they came up whit any crap if they have an empty space between the commercials and bad news sell the rags.

Same dude was saying to give people bleach, same kind of story...

Bksabath

25-07-2021, 10:44

Sajid Javid told to apologise for saying people have been ‘cowering’ from Covid-19 (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/sajid-javid-told-to-apologise-for-saying-people-have-been-cowering-from-covid-19/ar-AAMxlxn?ocid=msedgntp)

Quote from this article
Mr Javid is an avid devotee of fringe American philosopher Ayn Rand, who presented man as a "heroic being" who should reject altruism and pursue its own interests at all costs.
WTF can vote for such person and how did he get the job?

NI deal scuppers hopes for Theresa May to become Nato's secretary general (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ni-deal-scuppers-hopes-for-theresa-may-to-become-nato-s-secretary-general/ar-AAMx1sl?ocid=msedgntp)

She would did notice a bunch of prime ministers and such queuing to ram a big dildo in to her, Americans in front of the line, and now this?

Wow so much crap just looking at the bing news screen
One need to know what flavour of bullshit the rag support before taking it in

Macca

25-07-2021, 11:31

Sajid Javid told to apologise for saying people have been ‘cowering’ from Covid-19 (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/sajid-javid-told-to-apologise-for-saying-people-have-been-cowering-from-covid-19/ar-AAMxlxn?ocid=msedgntp)

Quote from this article
Mr Javid is an avid devotee of fringe American philosopher Ayn Rand, who presented man as a "heroic being" who should reject altruism and pursue its own interests at all costs.
WTF can vote for such person and how did he get the job?

[/FONT][/COLOR]

As I have a passing interest in Ayn Rand I looked this up and it seems that far from being 'avid follower' of Rand's philosophies he is just a fan of one of her novels (and it's not 'Atlas Shrugged' either).

Bksabath

25-07-2021, 11:51

mad-moon

25-07-2021, 11:56

Really sorry to hear that, mate. Yeah defo take care of her. As has been said loads of times, apart from anything else you're doing, pump her full of Vitamin D. Get some tablets or whatever, honestly it works.

Monitor her condition though, and if it gets worse (don't want it turning into pneumonia) call the Covid helpline and have a doctor assess her condition, or if you think she needs it, just phone an ambulance. It's important to catch it as soon as possible if she starts to deteriorate. It might just seem like a heavy case of flu (which is bad enough), but don't let it get any worse!

And of course look after yourself. Keep us posted.

Marco.

The PCR tests have just gone in the post...they will be picked up today and on their way to the lab 24 hour post...in the mean time, I've just done more lat flow tests..and fingers crossed, I'm still getting a negative reading...However the missus is still reading positive..Our flu like symptoms are bad, but not getting any worse..I've got the flu type thing from her, but not the virus...as I say fingers crossed and see what comes back from the PCR test...

Bksabath

25-07-2021, 12:03

The PCR tests have just gone in the post...they will be picked up today and on their way to the lab 24 hour post...in the mean time, I've just done more lat flow tests..and fingers crossed, I'm still getting a negative reading...However the missus is still reading positive..Our flu like symptoms are bad, but not getting any worse..I've got the flu type thing from her, but not the virus...as I say fingers crossed and see what comes back from the PCR test...

As Marco sez get same vitamin D
The best way to get it ... Sunbathing

Al the best

mad-moon

25-07-2021, 12:14

As Marco sez get same vitamin D
The best way to get it ... Sunbathing

Al the best

Ta...Our lass is out in it all the time...I can't I fry like bacon...I'm taking cod liver oil capsules with A+D vitamins,,that'll have to do...Ha!

Macca

25-07-2021, 13:53

tanks Martin

As I said loads of crap on the news

Gogle up Fauci emails and see
BTW one can download the all 3000 pages the juicy bits are still redacted and Senator Rand had another go ...

I am going to watch that movie now Atlas Shrugged 2011

Not seen the film but did read the book at school as it was available in the library and I'd gone through all the Bond and Sven Hassell.

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 06:47

'Saint' Fauci 'demolished' by Senator Rand Paul in 'testy' US Congress exchange - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVcvsuIZB3g)

JUST IN: Jim Jordan says he can prove Fauci LIED - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3F2ZJGipiE)

Crack pot theories still going
If the Fauci virus was made in the lab the main implication would be that they did know what was happening

If the Fauci virus was not made in the lab there must be a spill over agent that transmit the virus from the bat to the human, pangolins been the prime suspects

A bit like the engine making the wheel turn in your car by transmitting power trough the gear box

So far no gear box, clutch, shaft's, and differential and so on has been found

It would be on many best interest to find it I believe that an early figure was of around 80000 samples been taken and all proved to be negatives.

One may watch this
Contagion (2011 film) - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contagion_(2011_film))

system7

26-07-2021, 08:15

Very interesting videos, Sandro. My quick take is Dr. Fauci is being very evasive! :lol:

Amazing that China and the US are so cozy on virus research, whilst ostensibly somewhat hostile to each other... :eek:

Of course it helps us not where it came from. We must deal with it.

I had a long listen to Stephen Nolan on Radio 5 Live last night. A Covid special interspersed with the exciting Olympic Triathlon. No you don't have to listen to it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000y7cb

Not a reassuring listen. Had an interview with Sebastian Shemirani, the son of Kate. Convinced me she is as mad as a box of frogs. But the Covid nonsense she spouts is dangerous nonsense. Someone will get killed.

Also interviewed a regular contributor, a Doctor, who says this winter could be very grim for the Health Service with all the usual Flu and Pneumonia horrors too. We can only hope we are near herd immunity now, so numbers should decline, but still necessary to jab the whole world eventually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Shemirani

That is worth reading if you want to know how wacky she and her supporters are.

Rabid anti-vaxxer Stephen Harmon, who told everyone who would listen to trust to God, has tragically died of the, er, Covid:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57958358

Why do I not feel sorry for him?

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 09:08

Tanks Steven
It is a very old story that keeps gaining momentum.

China is not the only place where this has been going on Gain of function research experiments are not illegal there, as Fauci does one may want to split hairs and call them some else
I posted before a clip of Peter Daszak talking about it and another from 2012 where the evil Dr Fauci states that such research quote "not only is necessary but the risk are worth it
TWiV 615: Peter Daszak of EcoHealth Alliance - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdYDL_RK--w)
skip to 12:40 and 29:50

Founding to the lab is a proven fact, it is also out there that the research whatever one may call it, was still taking place while suspended in 2015
The same Peter Daszak was one of the main researcher appointed by the WHO to find the origin of the virus, this stinks a lot IMO

The crack pot stink persist
Tracking Dr. Anthony Fauci’s Comments On Coronavirus - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShiwHR5OvtM)

This was taken back on the 26 of January 2020 the virus was not recognised as a pandemic then

Dr Fauci sez that he decided about mitigation ( social distancing mask and such) instead of supressing the virus (travel ban) also interesting how he tells that they will have a vaccine ready for human trials in 3 months, this would take years

If the crack pot theorist are right the implication would be that they did know what was happening and thus did know much more about the virus even before it started spreading than they told you.

I am not going to comment on the " Why do I not fell sorry for him" further than say maybe in part I agree
Thing is any death is tragic and maybe could have been avoided.

Marco

26-07-2021, 09:13

Marco

26-07-2021, 09:17

Meanwhile, we're back down to 28 [although there will be lag on data over the weekend], with hospitalisations seemingly levelling off too, at under £1k, and a sharp drop in the numbers being tested as positive: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Certainly no evidence in those stats, or in their current trend (despite still high cases) suggesting that there's anything major to worry about going forward. Yes, I suspect flu/pneumonia could be more of a problem this winter than Covid!

Marco.

Stryder5

26-07-2021, 09:34

Meanwhile, we're back down to 28, with hospitalisations seemingly levelling off too, at under £1k, and a sharp drop in the numbers being tested as positive: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Certainly no evidence in those stats, or in their current trend (despite still high cases) suggesting that there's anything major to worry about going forward. Yes, I suspect flu/pneumonia could be more of a problem this winter than Covid!

Marco.

Will they separate the different cases ? Statistics for ‘flu, pneumonia, Covid etc not lumped into one named Covid. We shall see, given that all the symptoms are similar. If the differentiator is PCR with a positive result how is this verified?

Gary

Marco

26-07-2021, 09:40

Good questions, Gary. I'd love to know the answers!

Marco.

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 09:57

If any good has to came out of this is that the mitigating intervention of masks and distancing hand washing may be useful in preventing flu and Pneumonia. hopefully we will no frown when seeing peoples wearing a mask in the future

I may not need to, but but I still wear one in public enclosed spaces and I am a supporter of the company I work for decision to make the use of face mask mandatory.

Remember that face mask are not there to protect you, the function is to protect others from you.
Any one wearing a mask show cares and respect for others.

Macca

26-07-2021, 10:13

Not worn one since the law changed last Monday.

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 10:13

I predict that Fauci will end up being put on trial for crimes against humanity and, rightly, be found guilty. He's a slimy, subhuman, no-morals scumbag!

I detest the man, and will gleefully jump with joy when the fucker is put away in a cell and never seen again..

Marco.

Careful there the trend at the moment is to define any support of the crack pot theory as right winger :D
One of many clips out there I picked this one after typing " daszak " on the youtube search box because is only 4:30 long
WHO Expert Peter Daszak's Explosive 2016 Boast On China Designing 'Killer Covid' Surfaces - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbRR-JGHnQ)

Skip to 1:05

This is from 2016 bang on in the middle when Fauci sez the faunding was suspended

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 10:18

Not worn one since the law changed last Monday.

entirely your choice and your right, I am not going to frown or argue about it.

Macca

26-07-2021, 10:44

Careful there the trend at the moment is to define any support of the crack pot theory as right winger :D
One of many clips out there I picked this one after typing " daszak " on the youtube search box because is only 4:30 long
WHO Expert Peter Daszak's Explosive 2016 Boast On China Designing 'Killer Covid' Surfaces - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbRR-JGHnQ)

Skip to 1:05

This is from 2016 bang on in the middle when Fauci sez the faunding was suspended

It's an Institute of Virology, hardly surprising that they would be studying SARS/Covid viruses, I mean the clue's in the name.

maybe they should have stuck to just studying viruses that are harmless? They might have found it difficult to justify their funding that way though.

system7

26-07-2021, 10:49

How it started is the least of our problems, IMO.

Facemasks protect other people from YOUR germs mostly. I still wear mine out of respect for the shop workers. My friend Tatiana at Tesco is unvaccinated because she is pregnant. My Covid neighbour next door is 38.2C this morning (37.8C yesterday) and has a cold and nosebleed as main symptoms. She is slightly vulnerable being overweight and in her 50s, and double vaccinated. But so far so good.

The slight game changer is this Delta variant. Pfizer loses 20% effectiveness against it. It's why easing was postponed in June. When the R number worsens, herd immunity requires higher percentage of antibodies (whether acquired though jabs or previous illness) in the population. The situation in hospitals now and next winter is eloquently described by Doctor Al at 2m40 if you want real insight into the desperate current situation in Manchester Casualty departments. Waiting times are 8-10 hours usually. 4-5 hours for people in pain. ICUs are full.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000y7cb

An irritating conspiracy theorist on air at 2m20, rattling on about freedom and liberty, if you want to raise your blood pressure.

Marco

26-07-2021, 10:57

How it started is the least of our problems, IMO.

No it's not. We need someone or something to blame for the deaths of millions of people worldwide, and all the other untold shite that this virus has caused!! And the truth WILL out - Some of us want payback.

As I've said before, if it should be proven that someone (or more than one) was responsible for causing the spread of this virus, I'd gladly watch them hanged on live TV!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000y7cb

An irritating conspiracy theorist on air at 2m20, rattling on about freedom and liberty, if you want to raise your blood pressure.

The only thing raising my blood pressure is you glibly dismissing the importance of freedom and liberty!!:doh:

So that's not important at all to you? And I *want* an answer to that, so you'll be repeatedly asked until I get one...

Also, stop denigrating 'conspiracy theorists', as some of them make valid points, simply because it's an affront to your sensibilities. Any more of such, and it'll simply be removed. Learn to respect others who think differently from you, even if you disagree with them.

Marco.

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 12:10

How it started is the least of our problems, IMO.

No is not
First of all if it came from a lab we need to make sure that it does not happens again
to follow on that we need to know what the researchers the NIH and Fauci did know
His statement "we will have a vaccine ready for human trials" would indicate that they already have one, this is the end scope of gain of function research, and it would imply an exchange of data whit big pharma companies that are there to keep the investors happy.
Following this why mitigation and not a travel ban was decided
Why bosting of the immune system whit vitamin D was not publicised
Why good doctors had to work whit the hand tied back and use supportive care only
Why if it works ivermectin was never mentioned Chris Whitty he authored a study on river blindness about it
Why all the doctors signing on papers about crack pot theories, se the retracted Lancet letter, did so, disclosure of interest being the main point there
Why blaming the China Virus became a political topic, yes they may have been the gun that fired the bullet, it was Fauci and co that pressed the trigger
Why the WHO delayed in declaring the pandemic advised against the use of masks and appointed Daszak to find the origin of the virus
Why our government followed the WHO guidelines while actively putting in place contracts favouring own crownies for the purchase of PPE
Why we have to purchase PPE from china and why our own Astra Zeneca vaccine came from India
Why the vaccination program was undermined by brexit related political issues and was so slow in Europe
Why the travel ban, as just one of many examples, was only by us adopted after the USA did so

Those are just a few of the many question that need an answer I am typing them on the fly

An answer to those may mean that next time you will not be where you are right now IMO

Marco

26-07-2021, 12:28

No is not
First of all if it came from a lab we need to make sure that it does not happens again
to follow on that we need to know what the researchers the NIH and Fauci did know
His statement "we will have a vaccine ready for human trials" would indicate that they already have one, this is the end scope of gain of function research, and it would imply an exchange of data whit big pharma companies that are there to keep the investors happy.
Following this why mitigation and not a travel ban was decided
Why bosting of the immune system whit vitamin D was not publicised
Why good doctors had to work whit the hand tied back and use supportive care only
Why if it works ivermectin was never mentioned Chris Whitty he authored a study on river blindness about it
Why all the doctors signing on papers about crack pot theories, se the retracted Lancet letter, did so, disclosure of interest being the main point there
Why blaming the China Virus became a political topic, yes they may have been the gun that fired the bullet, it was Fauci and co that pressed the trigger
Why the WHO delayed in declaring the pandemic advised against the use of masks and appointed Daszak to find the origin of the virus
Why our government followed the WHO guidelines while actively putting in place contracts favouring own crownies for the purchase of PPE
Why we have to purchase PPE from china and why our own Astra Zeneca vaccine came from India
Why the vaccination program was undermined by brexit related political issues and was so slow in Europe
Why the travel ban, as just one of many examples, was only by us adopted after the USA did so

Those are just a few of the many question that need an answer I am typing them on the fly

An answer to those may mean that next time you will not be where you are right now IMO

Aside from everything else you've written, precisely!

I'm one of these people who likes to see wrongs made right and injustice defeated, along with corruption PUNISHED, plus most of all those 'in high places' who think that they're above the law, brought to book (stripped of their wealth and power) and prevented from ever being able to act like that again!!

Not to mention, some folks will rightly want justice done for the deaths of their loved ones.

:exactly:

Marco.

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 12:42

It's an Institute of Virology, hardly surprising that they would be studying SARS/Covid viruses, I mean the clue's in the name.

maybe they should have stuck to just studying viruses that are harmless? They might have found it difficult to justify their funding that way though.

I may even be sympathetic to "gain of function research" being carried out in order to advance understanding
Why this understanding was not used from the 19th of November when 3 Wuhan lab researcers ended up in hospital whit a mysterious virus?
Why the secret services did not report the communication black out around the Lab?
Why such research is illegal in other countries?
Why known concerns about the sloppy safety protocols of the Wuhan lab did not preclude any further founding or where ignored and kept on going?

Macca

26-07-2021, 12:54

I may even be sympathetic to "gain of function research" being carried out in order to advance understanding
Why this understanding was not used from the 19th of November when 3 Wuhan lab researcers ended up in hospital whit a mysterious virus?
Why the secret services did not report the communication black out around the Lab?
Why such research is illegal in other countries?
Why known concerns about the sloppy safety protocols of the Wuhan lab did not preclude any further founding or where ignored and kept on going?

Because people are crap and mistakes happen all the time unless you're watching them like a hawk and in any case who watches the watchers?

How did Chernobyl disaster happen? The work of an evil cabal? No. There were safety protocols in place to prevent what happened from happening and they ignored them because they were tired and wanted to go home.

I'll bet my ass if the virus did escape from the lab that's how it happened.

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 12:59

Aside from everything else you've written, precisely!

I'm one of these people who likes to see wrongs made right and injustice defeated, along with corruption PUNISHED, plus most of all those 'in high places' who think that they're above the law, brought to book (stripped of their wealth and power) and prevented from ever being able to act like that again!!

Not to mention, some folks will rightly want justice done for the deaths of their loved ones.

:exactly:

Marco.

And what are you going to do about it when same totally hopeless dude get away whit it by reigning over same staged kissing video.
Only to be replaced by another previously sacked dude that he will replace or if not just the same one but another one.

Should not any one on such a hi position, found profiteering or such, been judged for treason?
Should not any one on such a hi position been precluded from having any, and in many cases multiple, secondary jobs as :scratch: company director.
And would not any appointment as director of unemployed PM and such imply poor judgment by that company and preclude any further government contract

I am not piking on any party in particular, they are all the same<to give you an example Blair should be sent to the Hague for knowingly supporting false claims in order to legalise a war and how could he be worth £56M and where is the big absentee from the news Mark Tatcher?

Marco

26-07-2021, 13:16

Because people are crap and mistakes happen all the time unless you're watching them like a hawk and in any case who watches the watchers?

How did Chernobyl disaster happen? The work of an evil cabal? No. There were safety protocols in place to prevent what happened from happening and they ignored them because they were tired and wanted to go home.

I'll bet my ass if the virus did escape from the lab that's how it happened.

Then find WHO were responsible (shouldn't be difficult if the relevant powers that be are determined enough), identify them in the public media with the country concerned admitting culpability, and ensure that the individuals concerned never see the light of day again.

I ABHOR cover-ups or hiding. If you've made a 'mistake' or are guilty of gross wrongdoing, then hold your hands up like a man and face the fucking consequences!!

<Rant over>;)

Marco.

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 13:21

Because people are crap and mistakes happen all the time unless you're watching them like a hawk and in any case who watches the watchers?

How did Chernobyl disaster happen? The work of an evil cabal? No. There were safety protocols in place to prevent what happened from happening and they ignored them because they were tired and wanted to go home.

I'll bet my ass if the virus did escape from the lab that's how it happened.

Tried and wanted to go home? or because they where promised a promotion if the test that caused the melt down was completed?

Why the Fucushima plant had the cooling water tanks fitted below and requiring pumps instead to be gravity fed?
Maybe it was cheaper that way?

If the virus escaped from the lab it was a mistake or poor and cheap safety measures we are humans and all make mistakes. the cover up, the poor response the choice of the lab and its founding in the first place are criminal act's The Hague is there to judge against crimes against humanity 4 million deaths amply justify it

Bksabath

26-07-2021, 13:27

Then find WHO were responsible (shouldn't be difficult if the relevant powers that be are determined enough), identify them in the public media with the country concerned admitting culpability, and ensure that the individuals concerned never see the light of day again.

I ABHOR cover-ups or hiding. If you've made a 'mistake' or are guilty of gross wrongdoing, then hold your hands up like a man and face the fucking consequences!!

<Rant over>;)

Marco.

Agree 100%
The WHO Director general is know to be a Chinese puppet and has been there for years. this is a old well known fact.

The all system has flaws until the system changes, the only way to act is by casting your vote at the due time and if you are un happy and don't get the value from money you deserve just vote for the opposition and when that opposition is in power and proves to be the same again vote for the opposition.
Or you can start a petition
Start a petition · Change.org (https://www.change.org/start-a-petition?utm_source=sem&utm_medium=bing_ad&utm_campaign=B%3ESearch%3ESAP%3EUK%3ENonBrand%3EEx act&utm_term=start%20a%20petition%20uk|e|AG:1290826977 449388|AD:&utm_content=2020_04_30&msclkid=b3c5d13cc10b1eb82cf9b1c278c68ac2):D

Or you can write Emails to people you dislike
Got this from a scum bag as the rest

Copy and paste

If you think that I give you money you just proved just how out of touch you and your loot are
You should all be sent to the Hague
If you where a really honest and caring human being you would make it all public no mater what
You have an agenda I feel so please take me out of your mailing list
Sandro

Why I went to No10 in summer 2019...

Boris: normal mode, self-aware mode, Carrie mode...

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