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a lot of folk seem to have no patience..
walpurgis
25-06-2020, 15:23
a lot of folk seem to have no patience..
What's the term, 'outrageous indifference'?
What's the term, 'outrageous indifference'?
bloody-minded stupidity
anthonyTD
25-06-2020, 15:50
Absolutely nuts! :doh:
I have no interest in sitting on a crowded beach at the best of times, and even less now!
Looks like you won't have to wait too long. The imbeciles are out and about in hordes
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-25/uk-basks-in-soaring-temperatures-ahead-of-thunderstorms-and-torrential-rain/
It might seem callous, but I think they deserve whatever they get, they are putting everybody at risk!
Instead of rushing off to mix with the hoards this is only 3/4mls awsy
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200625/8e8e4b8eb4ec048a021098395e9aef54.jpg
bloody-minded stupidity
Yes, but remember it's all part of the plan... Don't you think that the government knew *exactly* what would happen by removing the travel and lockdown restrictions? And the braindead sheep haven't disappointed them!
The fact is, they WANT to create another wave of the virus, so it gives them the excuse to reintroduce the lockdown, then later impose the 'Gates vaccine' upon us, as being the only way out of lockdown again!:doh:
It's all so predictable.....
Marco.
Instead of rushing off to mix with the hoards this is only 3/4mls awsy
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200625/8e8e4b8eb4ec048a021098395e9aef54.jpg
Nice, Grant. MUCH more my type of thing!!:thumbsup:
Marco.
Yes, but remember it's all part of the plan... Don't you think that the government knew *exactly* what would happen by removing the travel and lockdown restrictions? And the braindead sheep haven't disappointed them!
The fact is, they WANT to create another wave of the virus, so it gives them the excuse to reintroduce the lockdown, then later impose the 'Gates vaccine' upon us, as being the only way out of lockdown again!:doh:
It's all so predictable.....
Marco.
No, the reasons they relaxed the lockdown were financial and to develop herd immunity. They are satisfied now that the hospitals can cope. They'll keep an eye on the R and if that starts going up there will be more lockdowns, but they will be localised.
Well, not "no", but possibly...;)
I'd also say hopefully!
Marco.
AJSki2fly
25-06-2020, 18:51
Well everyone can just F off if that is how they are going to behave, about time people were taken to task and dealt with. The selfishness is without comprehension, I suppose they think that they will be lucky in some way and just get a small dose of it and then be immune, irrespective of how long they go out into the community and spread it like confetti, dumb f**cks.
A lady from Holsworthy in Devon was allowed home from hospital today, she was a nurse in a covid ICU ward and contracted it, she spent nearly 100 days on a ventilator, she is in her 40's and it is unlikely she will ever fully recover or go back to work. She was interviewed and just glad to be alive and home.
So if any of you do not think this is not a serious and very nasty virus, then just go to the beach with everyone else and get your dose and see how it turns out for you!
prestonchipfryer
25-06-2020, 19:26
Well everyone can just F off if that is how they are going to behave, about time people were taken to task and dealt with. The selfishness is without comprehension, I suppose they think that they will be lucky in some way and just get a small dose of it and then be immune, irrespective of how long they go out into the community and spread it like confetti, dumb f**cks.
A lady from Holsworthy in Devon was allowed home from hospital today, she was a nurse in a covid ICU ward and contracted it, she spent nearly 100 days on a ventilator, she is in her 40's and it is unlikely she will ever fully recover or go back to work. She was interviewed and just glad to be alive and home.
So if any of you do not think this is not a serious and very nasty virus, then just go to the beach with everyone else and get your dose and see how it turns out for you!
I saw the report of the lady and was moved by her horrible ordeal.
It's totally reprehensible the way some people are behaving. Years of lack of any discipline perhaps?
Years of 'Me, Me, ME' unjustified self-entitlement, more like!:rolleyes:
'I'll do what I like, when I like, regardless'.... :punch:
Selfish fucks!
Marco.
Instead of rushing off to mix with the hoards this is only 3/4mls awsy
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200625/8e8e4b8eb4ec048a021098395e9aef54.jpg
We have the same here, though it's probably a mile away. :)
InThe Sticks
25-06-2020, 20:09
Yes, but remember it's all part of the plan... Don't you think that the government knew *exactly* what would happen by removing the travel and lockdown restrictions? And the braindead sheep haven't disappointed them!
The fact is, they WANT to create another wave of the virus, so it gives them the excuse to reintroduce the lockdown, then later impose the 'Gates vaccine' upon us, as being the only way out of lockdown again!:doh:
It's all so predictable.....
Marco.
Are you actually being serious? I read it like it was a throw away piss take kinda comment, but are you serious?
I did my last shop for John (one of the old boys i've been looking after) yesterday, and although he's just about able to get out and about and drive, he's stuck to the rules as i guess most of us have.
He is literally heartbroken that he's not seen his wife (in a home) for the last 3 months and then we see the utterly selfish c*nts flocking to the beaches in droves.
Fucking madness.
That said, i'm going to keep in touch with him as his kids don't seem to give a fuck, i mean if they did, i wouldn't be doing his shopping and giving him someone to talk to.
walpurgis
25-06-2020, 20:36
i'm going to keep in touch with him as his kids don't seem to give a fuck, i mean if they did, i wouldn't be doing his shopping and giving him someone to talk to.
Good for you Jon. That's nice.
anthonyTD
26-06-2020, 09:08
Good on you Jon, and i am sure he appreciates all the help and support you have given him.:)
Are you actually being serious? I read it like it was a throw away piss take kinda comment, but are you serious?
I did my last shop for John (one of the old boys i've been looking after) yesterday, and although he's just about able to get out and about and drive, he's stuck to the rules as i guess most of us have.
He is literally heartbroken that he's not seen his wife (in a home) for the last 3 months and then we see the utterly selfish c*nts flocking to the beaches in droves.
Fucking madness.
That said, i'm going to keep in touch with him as his kids don't seem to give a fuck, i mean if they did, i wouldn't be doing his shopping and giving him someone to talk to.
anthonyTD
26-06-2020, 09:15
Nice Grant, :)
We have two beautiful parks near us that we visit regularly, both have lakes, and are set in their own valley, and in the one,you could easily be fooled into thinking you were anywhere in the world, its absolutely stunning!
Much much better than on an overcrowded beach, with all the selfish idiots! :doh:
We have the same here, though it's probably a mile away. :)
Beobloke
26-06-2020, 10:44
Looks like you won't have to wait too long. The imbeciles are out and about in hordes.
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-25/uk-basks-in-soaring-temperatures-ahead-of-thunderstorms-and-torrential-rain/
It might seem callous, but I think they deserve whatever they get, they are putting everybody at risk!
Unbelievable. Frankly, I'd take a three-pronged approach to this:
(1) Shut the beaches again.
(2) Illegally parked cars don't get ticketed - they get taken away and crushed.
(3) If the great unwashed are going to behave like children, then treat them like children and hit them where it will hurt most - postpone the re-opening of pubs.
Mrs. B has been on a call to a colleague in Australia and they have had a resent spike in cases, so have re-established lockdown in certain places. And what has the result been? Yes, that's right, panic-buying again and the shops are out of toilet roll once more.
I really do despair sometimes...
https://media1.tenor.com/images/8ec67ae8e8231dec26d38e3f778cf08d/tenor.gif?itemid=12710184
why toilet roll? is there a problem with folks arses in lockdown?
why toilet roll? is there a problem with folks arses in lockdown?
"Well, it is "Down Under"....
could also lay a few land mines :eyebrows: see if folk fancy their chances, coz thats pretty much what they are doing
I think an assault by helicopter gunships is required. Like in 'Apocalypse Now.'
There's always a good offshore breeze in the morning.
anthonyTD
26-06-2020, 11:25
Must be the subliminal messages subtly put inbetween the scenes of the awful soap opra programs many of these folk watch! :rolleyes:
why toilet roll? is there a problem with folks arses in lockdown?
I think an assault by helicopter gunships is required. Like in 'Apocalypse Now.'
There's always a good offshore breeze in the morning.
https://i.imgur.com/owBaskY.gif
https://youtu.be/9XFJmRZTcMI?t=151
Haha - in all seriousness though, the exact same, only equipped instead with water cannon! Just SOAK the bastards from above, and clear the beaches that way - it'll probably be the first wash some of the manky chav fucks have had in months!!:D
I like the idea of crushing the 'parked' cars too, Adam! Yee-hah... I'd also install CCTV cameras at strategic points on beaches, with the ability to zoom in and snap close-up pictures of the feral animals responsible for defecating on the sands, later for council workers to have to clear up , and post them all over social media.
I'm sure someone would recognise their faces, if not their arses!!!:lol: Just shame the filthy fucks, in the cruellest and most long-lasting way possible...
Plus I'd have Police patrolling the beaches, handing out instant on-the-spot £500 fines for anyone caught leaving behind discarded foodstuffs, plastic bottles and the soiled nappies of the sprogs they've unfortunately spawned. Essentially though, a much harder line needs to be taken to eradicate such sub-human behaviour in future!
Marco.
And no doubt those on the beaches were out with there pots and pans ( attention seekers many of them ) every w/k showing support for the NHS.
In Hackney there was a big feature on bbc London about drunken idiots urinating and worse in a big park there completely ignoring s/d rules.
I n Hackney, full of Labour supporters who supposedly LOVE the NHS. Not the Labour partys fault of course, but the irony of it all :eyebrows:
Good for you Jon. That's nice.
Yup, +1. Keep up the good work, Jon-boy!:thumbsup:
Marco.
Now back on topic: https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/26/man-wears-a-mesh-face-mask-to-prove-mandatory-masks-in-florida-i/
Worth watching... And a point very well made!
So: support the PEOPLE, not the sheeple.... And always protect your human rights and FREEDOM, by REBELLING against *anything* that the government tries to make MANDATORY, as a result of this pandemic [without very good justifiable reason], by REFUSING to COMPLY!!
Marco.
hifi_dave
26-06-2020, 15:38
Haha - in all seriousness though, the exact same, only equipped instead with water cannon! Just SOAK the bastards from above, and clear the beaches that way - it'll probably be the first wash some of the manky chav fucks have had in months!!:D
I like the idea of crushing the 'parked' cars though, Adam! Yee-hah... I'd also install CCTV cameras at strategic points on beaches, with the ability to zoom in and snap close-up pictures of the feral animals responsible for defecating on the sands, later for council workers to have to clear up , and post them all over social media.
I'm sure someone would recognise their faces, if not their arses!!!:lol: Just shame the filthy fucks in the cruellest and most long-lasting way possible...
Plus I'd have Police patrolling the beaches, handing out instant on-the-spot £500 fines for anyone caught leaving behind discarded foodstuffs, plastic bottles and the soiled nappies of the sprogs they've unfortunately spawned. Essentially though, a much harder line needs to be taken to eradicate such sub-human behaviour in future!
Marco.
The Councils concerned made no effort to deter the idiots. They preferred to allow them in to spend their money.
It would have been so easy to send them back to whence they came by a couple of Police on the roads in but it wasn't done and we know the result..:booty:
Indeed - and they may live to regret it! Like I said though, helicopters manned with high-pressure water cannon...
Man, how I'd LOVE that job!! I'd target all the lobster-coloured FATTIES first, and watch them tumble to the ground, as I BLASTED their blubbery BUMS:lol::lol:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/5gymej.jpg
I'd happily pay a grand to man one of those babies!!:D
Marco.
your a blubberist..disgraceful:ner:
Lol - only the ones that can't keep themselves gracefully covered up in public!! Why they insist on 'proudly showcasing' their sagging blubber and bingo-wings, especially the women, I've no idea.
:spew::spew:
Marco.
hifi_dave
26-06-2020, 16:19
If only that were possible. Unfortunately, the Police are far too busy pandering to these idiots to take any proper action and so it goes on.
I have a suggestion (although my wife wasn't too impressed) - I want to know who has been taking part in these mass gatherings (so that I can ensure that I am more than 2 metres away from the arseholes when they do their next shop).
Send drones over beaches spraying indelible ink over the bastards so that they stand out in public for the next fourteen days :)
Send drones over beaches spraying indelible ink over the bastards so that they stand out in public for the next fourteen days
Superb idea:thumbsup:
Then follow them home, and dump all the crap that they left on Bournemouth beach onto their living room floor.
Marco.
thanks :cool:
The idea of taking shit and crap to their homes also appeals to my idea of justice :) - I think I heard that 40 tonnes of waste had to be cleared up after the plebs had had their fun enjoying the seaside at Bournemouth
Don't know about clapping for the NHS, I think there CRAPPING on the NHS
Beobloke
26-06-2020, 23:08
Now back on topic: https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/26/man-wears-a-mesh-face-mask-to-prove-mandatory-masks-in-florida-i/
Worth watching... And a point very well made!
So: support the PEOPLE, not the sheeple.... And always protect your human rights and FREEDOM, by REBELLING against *anything* that the government tries to make MANDATORY, as a result of this pandemic [without very good justifiable reason], by REFUSING to COMPLY!!
Marco.
What an absolute pillock.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
mad-moon
27-06-2020, 02:18
:doh:
hifi_dave
27-06-2020, 08:59
Yesterday, the BBC was reporting about the 'good natured' celebrations in Liverpool, where thousands gathered together, drunk as Skunks with no thought of social distancing. Last night and another gathering where they even managed to set fire to the Liver building. Where are the Police ? Why don't they prevent them gathering before it gets out of hand ?
Is there going to be a large spike in Covid cases in Liverpool, West London and with people who crowded the beaches ?
anthonyTD
27-06-2020, 09:05
But then; you look at the crap that has to be cleared up year after year at Glastonbury, how come we dont feel the same about that ?
It really makes me wonder sometimes what goes on in their heads, not a lot by the look of it! :rolleyes:
Yesterday, the BBC was reporting about the 'good natured' celebrations in Liverpool, where thousands gathered together, drunk as Skunks with no thought of social distancing. Last night and another gathering where they even managed to set fire to the Liver building. Where are the Police ? Why don't they prevent them gathering before it gets out of hand ?
Is there going to be a large spike in Covid cases in Liverpool, West London and with people who crowded the beaches ?
I read that bit about 'setting fire to the Liver Building.' The headline was 'Liver Building Burns.' When you read it you discover that all that happened was a flare landed on a balcony and was then extinguished. Click bait.
I'll predict that there is unlikely to be a spike in cases due to the beach thing or the celebrations in Liverpool because
a) The odds of anyone in the crowd being positive are very low - we've had three months of lockdown
b) Even if one or a couple of people are then the odds of them transmitting it to someone else whilst out in the open air are also very low.
I'll predict that there is unlikely to be a spike in cases due to the beach thing or the celebrations in Liverpool because
a) The odds of anyone in the crowd being positive are very low - we've had three months of lockdown
b) Even if one or a couple of people are then the odds of them transmitting it to someone else whilst out in the open air are also very low.
cheers doc :D
Im not chsacing it yet even if scotland is doing fairly well.. its still around, so, as ive managed so far, a bit longer wont be end of world. Folk have no patience these days.. hell my dad had to join raf and go abroad for 6 yrs without geting home... can you imagine anyone accepting 6 months now?
cheers doc :D
I'm just going by the research and the evidence. Rather than panicky old woman pearl clutching. The 'look at these stupid plebs' thing is getting old too.
The bloke with his mesh 'mask' in Walmart was illustrating a good point. So many people get told 'These are the rules' and then not only do they obey them to the letter even when it makes no sense but they can't wait to point fingers and get on their high horses at the people who think that blind obedience to blanket dictats is for fools.
We've always had a healthy disrespect for authority in this country. It's a fundamental part of our culture and one of our strengths.
What an absolute pillock.
Why? He simply (and very successfully) made a salient point.
So far, I haven't seen any credible, indisputable evidence, proving the efficacy of wearing face masks [proper PPE aside] in significantly stopping the spread of the virus. Therefore, he's right, it's FAR more about seeking compliance and controlling people, than anything else!
Marco.
Not going well Marco
Sorry, Brian - what isn't going well?:scratch:
Marco.
But then; you look at the crap that has to be cleared up year after year at Glastonbury, how come we dont feel the same about that ?
It really makes me wonder sometimes what goes on in their heads, not a lot by the look of it! :rolleyes:
I know - I've never seen the attraction... Especially wallowing up to your waist in mud and water - inside a tent, too! Claustrophobic crowds, full of sweaty bods. Then there are the 'toilets'!!:eek::doh:
Don't get me wrong, I love listening to live music, but in just a *little* more cleanliness and comfort! The only such festival that would've interested me, had I been old enough, would've been Woodstock, in '69. The rest you can keep!
Marco.
I read that bit about 'setting fire to the Liver Building.' The headline was 'Liver Building Burns.' When you read it you discover that all that happened was a flare landed on a balcony and was then extinguished. Click bait.
Never mind that, where are your celebrations on the footy thread, part-time armchair boy? Call yourself a Liverpool 'supporter'!!:ner:;)
Marco.
Never mind that, where are your celebrations on the footy thread, part-time armchair boy? Call yourself a Liverpool 'supporter'!!:ner:;)
Marco.
Didn't want to rub it in :D
I admit to being an armchair supporter though. I've not been to a game since 1979 even though I can get in for free.
Didn't want to rub it in :D
:lolsign:
Just a pity it's happened during a pandemic, which spoils things somewhat! Otherwise, I'd defo have jumped on the train and joined in the celebrations!! I hear that Klopp still wants to parade the trophy round the city in an open-air bus, once things are more back to normal, so I'll just wait until then:cool:
Marco.
I admit to being an armchair supporter though. I've not been to a game since 1979 even though I can get in for free.
Free - what's the deal there, then?:eek:
Marco.
The bloke with his mesh 'mask' in Walmart was illustrating a good point. So many people get told 'These are the rules' and then not only do they obey them to the letter even when it makes no sense but they can't wait to point fingers and get on their high horses at the people who think that blind obedience to blanket dictats is for fools.
We've always had a healthy disrespect for authority in this country. It's a fundamental part of our culture and one of our strengths.
Indeed! However... We're back to the old 'where's the happy medium' again, as it always seems to be about ONE way or the OTHER - never the middle ground.
As much as I wholeheartedly agree with your point [and indeed consider it as fundamental in protecting our civil liberties], people also need to know how to behave like civilised and responsible human beings, rather than rabid feral dogs - and so where necessary - I'm all for drumming that into them in ANY reasonable, but forceful way, which gets the job done!
Having a healthy disrespect for authority is fine (for the right reasons), but having authorities that are often too soft or scared to 'upset anyone', in order to take decisive punitive action against those who deserve it, and therefore command no respect from the public, is no use either.
The police wouldn't take the kind of pish we've seen here recently, in the likes of Germany or Italy, I can assure you. One stern LOOK from a tooled-up member of the Carabinieri, is enough to put the fear of God into anyone!:eek:
Marco.
anthonyTD
27-06-2020, 13:53
A very interesting watch!
https://londonreal.tv/zach-bush-our-covid-19-assumptions-are-wrong-why-social-distancing-vaccines-will-make-the-pandemic-worse/
Indeed! However... We're back to the old 'where's the happy medium' again, as it always seems to be about ONE way or the OTHER - never the middle ground.
As much as I wholeheartedly agree with your point [and indeed consider it as fundamental in protecting our civil liberties], people also need to know how to behave like civilised and responsible human beings, rather than rabid feral dogs - and so where necessary - I'm all for drumming that into them in ANY reasonable, but forceful way, which gets the job done!
Having a healthy disrespect for authority is fine (for the right reasons), but having authorities that are often too soft or scared to 'upset anyone', in order to take decisive punitive action against those who deserve it, and therefore command no respect from the public, is no use either.
The police wouldn't take the kind of pish we've seen here recently, in the likes of Germany or Italy, I can assure you. One stern LOOK from a tooled-up member of the Carabinieri, is enough to put the fear of God into anyone!:eek:
Marco.
I agree, going to the beach when you shouldn't is one thing but trashing it isn't acceptable.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/9F12/production/_113122704_clean-nc.png
liverpool fans are as bad if not worse
Yup, there's no excuse for that either, but I guess it's easier cleaned up than on a beach, and there's no excrement to deal with.
I was always brought up to dispose of any litter I created, and if there wasn't a bin around, take whatever it was (crisp packets, sweets, bottles of juice) back with me to dispose of later. If I'd dared to just drop stuff on the ground and leave it, I'd have been belted by my dad, and told in *no uncertain terms* never to do it again! So, as an adult, that's been instilled in me to this day.
I wonder how many generations of kids have passed since, where their parents couldn't have given two monkeys about that, or respecting the environment, and subsequently turned into adults who've practiced the same irresponsible, filthy behaviour? And now we see the consequences....:rolleyes:
Marco.
A very interesting watch!
https://londonreal.tv/zach-bush-our-covid-19-assumptions-are-wrong-why-social-distancing-vaccines-will-make-the-pandemic-worse/
Watching it now:)
Marco.
RobbieGong
27-06-2020, 19:13
Yup, there's no excuse for that either, but I guess it's easier cleaned up than on a beach, and there's no excrement to deal with.
I was always brought up to dispose of any litter I created, and if there wasn't a bin around, take whatever it was (crisp packets, sweets, bottles of juice) back with me to dispose of later. If I'd dared to just drop stuff on the ground and leave it, I'd have been belted by my dad, and told in *no uncertain terms* never to do it again! So, as an adult, that's been instilled in me to this day.
I wonder how many generations of kids have passed since, where their parents couldn't have given two monkeys about that, or respecting the environment, and subsequently turned into adults who've practiced the same irresponsible and selfish behaviour? And now we see the consequences....:rolleyes:
Marco.
Yeah, always felt the same and my kids, knew that from the off, DO NOT THROW YOUR LITTER ON THE STREET ETC !
It's a message that I think has never really been instilled, continuously throughout generation here, sadly.
The things I've seen in front of my eyes have been shocking, almost unbelievable. I've seen full bags of McDonald's left overs, tossed from moving car windows, on more than one occasion.
A few weeks back when my daughter and I were in Nottingham loading the car for her return home. Two hoodies, directly outside her premises entrance with Subways takeaway. Stood there, picking bits out of their meals and dropping them on the floor.
This is in full view of cars, stopping at traffic lights, on a major, main road - no regard, no shame.
As well as the mess on the pavement, both of us had to navigate the horrible saucy splatter, every time we went in to get bits and then when we went out of the building to load the car.
My daughter could tell by my face, I said to her "what da heck was that about ??" :steam: :rolleyes: :scratch:
She said "I know Dad, no home training"....
I honestly think its a finger up to the moaners and society . - They will say -People are paid to pick that up and there should be more bins !!
NO , take the F******g stuff home with you you inbred t****
Oh and one more thing - who is really interested in football at the minute??
Winning the titles a bit like being given a massive bag of money when all you can pay for things with is a card and all the banks are shut!!
Apologies for sounding a bit grumpy
Bksabath
28-06-2020, 06:59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnS4MbRribw
Those are pretty long videos stick whit it
I have been watching this channel since early February well worth it
Watching it now:)
Both Del and I took the time to sit down and watch this video last night, and I'd say it's a must-watch.
For me, it puts everything into perspective, without ONE IOTA of conspiracy theory - just rational scientific thinking, logic and common sense, from a very switched-on and perceptive doctor, and which subsequently has comprehensively changed my view of what *exactly* is happening now in relation to this pandemic, and the REAL cause/source of the virus!
Honestly, guys, if you really want to know what is very likely to be the truth, you should set aside some time to watch the video below. That is, if you want to know the truth, as opposed to what the media want you to believe instead.
Click here: https://londonreal.tv/zach-bush-our-covid-19-assumptions-are-wrong-why-social-distancing-vaccines-will-make-the-pandemic-worse/
Marco.
P.S To view it, simply supply a legit email (doesn't need to be your main one). You won't receive any spam or anything like that. It'll be worth the effort, trust me!
I have watched it. I disagree with the suggestion that it is worth the effort.
Well, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion - I couldn't disagree more.
And you haven't watched it properly [impossible as the video is over 2 hours long], only skimmed through it and simply dismissed the remainder, because the contents conflict with your belief system. It's classic cognitive dissonance, and so entirely understandable.
I do hope that others taking the time to watch the video can overcome theirs (should it apply), and get to the end, in order to successfully digest the content.
Marco.
Well, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion - I couldn't disagree more.
And you haven't watched it properly [impossible as the video is over 2 hours long], only skimmed through it and simply dismissed the remainder, because the contents conflict with your belief system. It's classic cognitive dissonance, and so entirely understandable.
I do hope that others taking the time to watch the video can overcome theirs (should it apply), and get to the end, in order to successfully digest the content.
Marco.
There is no content to be dismissive of. It's just waffle completely unsupported by any data or facts.
In your humble opinion. Is the "waffle" and unsupported (deliberately massaged) data we've been fed by the government and media on this matter any better or more accurate? I guess that simply depends on your political bias!
So I'm afraid all that's left is for us to agree to disagree. However, I would urge others, who's interest may have been piqued, to take the time to watch the video and form their own opinions, and if you think the physician in question is onto something, then share the video on all your social networks:)
Marco.
Look at this fucking Idiot...
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2020/06/28/11/screen-shot-2020-06-28-at-10.53.20.png?w968h681
Sorry, mate, I'm not getting your point... He is an idiot of course, but what makes that clip make him MORE so?:scratch:
What's MoS?
Marco.
In your humble opinion. Is the "waffle" and unsupported (deliberately massaged) data we've been fed by the government and media on this matter any better or more accurate? I guess that simply depends on your political bias!
Marco.
At least there is some data to analyse, inspect, discuss and question. There's nothing in that video except some bloke talking.
I don't have a 'political bias.' And in any case when discussing the best way of dealing with a viral outbreak politics is irrelevant.
Btw, more information on Zach Bush can be found here: https://zachbushmd.com/bio/
Some interesting insight here on key topics relating to human health/disease, via the intelligent use of lateral thinking: https://zachbushmd.com/knowledge-base/
Marco.
At least there is some data to analyse, inspect, discuss and question. There's nothing in that video except some bloke talking.
Yes, that's simply because you haven't studied the man properly, and instead have ignorantly labelled him as a 'nut', simply because you consider his views as heretical! Research him and his achievements to date and you may come to a different conclusion, although perhaps not, as your views (and biases) are very deeply ingrained.
I don't have a 'political bias.'
LOL - of course you do! As does everyone.
You VOTED TORY in the last general election, and are a self-confessed BJ-fanboy, so if that's not bias, both political and otherwise, I don't know what is! It's also why you almost never challenge [rather invariably defend] the Tory 'party line' or what exits their propaganda machine!;)
Marco.
Who does that kind of stuff....really?
More a reminder of out Idiot Prime Minister, for those that many not have seen this.
"fit as a Butcher' pencil..." ffs. :lol:
No Ideas about MoS.
Sorry, mate, I'm not getting your point... He is an idiot of course, but what makes that clip make him MORE so?:scratch:
What's MoS?
Marco.
Lol - it's typical Boris Johnson. He's a clown, pure and simple.
What's the MoS?
Marco.
Have a read at ZB's views on cancer: https://zachbushmd.com/blog/cancer/
Noting (in terms of him supposedly being a 'nut'):
Before leaving academia in 2010, I was working to design a new generation of chemotherapy through my research at the University of Virginia. Through that research I discovered for myself some extraordinary realities under the microscope...
Yeah, aside from anything else, he really sounds like a 'nut' - NOT. Whether you agree or disagree with him or not (on any given subject), however, is another question!
Marco.
Who does that kind of stuff....really?
More a reminder of out Idiot Prime Minister, for those that many not have seen this.
"fit as a Butcher' pencil..." ffs. :lol:
No Ideas about MoS.
I know, it's a crass and rather stupid remark. In terms of the MoS, lol, and yet it forms part of the headlines of a newspaper, with the assumption that everyone will know!:hmm:
Anyone? What's the MoS?
Marco.
HD Goofnut
28-06-2020, 12:51
Mail On Sunday? The paper with the photo on the front page.
Ministry Of Sound? Maybe he wants to go to a rave.
RobbieGong
28-06-2020, 12:54
Mail On Sunday? The paper with the photo on the front page.
Ministry Of Sound? Is he going raving?
Man off side... :D
HD Goofnut
28-06-2020, 13:01
Man off side... :D
I prefer to think of Borris dropping a bit of MDMA, chewing his face off and giving it a bit “big fish, little fish, cardboard box” at a illegal free party!
Yes, that's simply because you haven't studied the man properly, and instead have ignorantly labelled him as a 'nut', simply because you consider his views as heretical! Research him and his achievements to date and you may come to a different conclusion, although perhaps not, as your views (and biases) are very deeply ingrained.
LOL - of course you do! As does everyone.
.
You asked me to watch it and give my opinion so I did. Now it doesn't agree with yours but instead of addressing my criticisms of the video - in that it is lacking completely in data and evidence - you just dismiss my opinion as 'ingrained bias.' Do you realise how irritating that is?
Why would I take this bloke seriously in what he says when he doesn't back it up with anything?
For example he claims that the reason the death rate has been so high this year is not because of Covid but because last year the death rate was historically low and people have to die sometime. He states that as the number of older people in the population increases, the number of deaths increases (well duh) but he then claims that even with the Covid deaths factored on we are still on the same statistical trajectory as we were before the outbreak. That's a big and I think unlikely claim, but an interesting one - if it's true.
But if you want to convince rational, sceptical people of the truth of your theory you don't make a claim like that without backing it up with some facts and figures, referenced so that we can see what the sources are and how credible they are.
But there is none of that we are just supposed to accept this claim as fact. Maybe it is a fact, although I doubt it else he might actually have attempted to back it up with some credible stats. That he doesn't is telling and gives me further cause to doubt the veracity of his other statements.
Have a read at ZB's views on cancer: https://zachbushmd.com/blog/cancer/
Noting (in terms of him supposedly being a 'nut'):
Yeah, aside from anything else, he really sounds like a 'nut' - NOT. Whether you agree or disagree with him or not (on any given subject), however, is another question!
Marco.
He's got crap to sell, that explains a lot https://intrinsichealthseries.com/
death rates in uk are more than twice what they should be this year on average.. thats quite a lot of deaths
He's got crap to sell, that explains a lot https://intrinsichealthseries.com/
In your eternally cynical mind;)
So he's not entitled to earn a living while carrying out his research, by selling things he think will work and be more effective than alternatives currently available? How are we going to discover if they are or not, if people don't try them? Should he simply offer them for free?
And how is that any different from the likes of Gates selling vaccines, which companies he controls has had patented? Or pharma companies in general selling us all sorts of drugs, which clearly aren't working very well, in terms of 'curing' what they're supposed to cure..
Marco.
death rates in uk are more than twice what they should be this year on average.. thats quite a lot of deaths
And you've automatically concluded that COVID-19 has been solely responsible? It's rather more complex that that, mate [many other underlying contributory factors], which if you watch the video I linked to you'll see.
Marco.
You asked me to watch it and give my opinion so I did..
No you haven't. You've admitted to only having skimmed though it, and simply dismissed the rest! So I'm afraid that doesn't entitle you to a valid opinion on the man or what he's saying, based on only having listened to a tiny part of it...
It's "lacking completely in data and evidence" because he's conducting an interview with a layperson, in an attempt to educate other laypeople in a language that they will understand! He's not conducting a lecture on medicine to fellow doctors.
So what would you expect to see, loads of graphs and scientific data that would simply go over most people's heads and send them to sleep? That would've added about another 3 hours onto the video!:doh:
If you want data and evidence, then you do some research on his stated findings (and him) after watching the video, should you consider it necessary. So watch the WHOLE VIDEO, from start to finish, then come back to me on it, or don't bother, and simply remain ignorant as to its actual content.
No-one is asking you to accept what he's saying as fact. That's entirely up to YOU, based on the judgement criteria YOU choose to apply - and in that respect don't automatically assume that yours is more 'rational' than anyone else's!;)
Marco.
Mail On Sunday? The paper with the photo on the front page.
Lol - yeah, exactly that!:doh::D
Don't see why they chose to write that though, as it was simply stating the obvious, or not as the case may be! I only read/focussed on the headlines; I paid no attention to the name of the paper.
Marco.
HD Goofnut
28-06-2020, 14:24
Lol - yeah, exactly that!:doh::D
Don't see why they chose to write that though, as it was simply stating the obvious, or not as the case may be! I only read/focussed on the headlines; I paid no attention to the name of the paper.
Marco.
Spoilsport, I much prefer the thought of BoJo at a rave.
I prefer to think of Borris dropping a bit of MDMA, chewing his face off and giving it a bit “big fish, little fish, cardboard box” at a illegal free party!
Drugs are bad kids, M'kay?
https://youtu.be/k0tMvxV-GC4
HD Goofnut
28-06-2020, 14:42
Drugs are bad kids, M'kay?
https://youtu.be/k0tMvxV-GC4
CAKE! :lol: I have the DVD of Brass Eye, such a good programme. Those celebrities taking it all so seriously too :doh:
Same here Ben, first thing I thought of when thinking of BJ at a Rave!
(Probably in Prague...) :)
Never heard of Brass Eye... When was it on, and which channel?:)
Marco.
Just looked it up: https://www.google.com/search?q=brass+eye&oq=Brass+Eye&aqs=chrome.0.0j46j0l6.3992j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
A limited release, and not really something that would normally pique my interest, although having watched a bit of it, some of it is funny.
Marco.
There have been no deaths in Scotland of people who tested positive for coronavirus for a third day running.
It is the eighth day overall this month that no new deaths have been reported within the previous 24 hours.
good news up here at least... well done nicky
Late 1990's, on Channel 4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass_Eye
Funniest thing ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhJ3YJkfcg
Spoof on the News...
For Bonus points,
Check out "The Day Today", which was its fore runner.
https://youtu.be/t2x4hMr2WLw
Cool... Later 90s (indeed most of the 90s) was an insanely busy time for me at work, so I didn't get time to watch much TV:)
Marco.
CAKE! :lol: I have the DVD of Brass Eye, such a good programme. Those celebrities taking it all so seriously too :doh:
Shatner's Bassoon! I had forgotten about Brass Eye.
There have been no deaths in Scotland of people who tested positive for coronavirus for a third day running.
It is the eighth day overall this month that no new deaths have been reported within the previous 24 hours.
good news up here at least... well done nicky
Indeed, mate. It's much the same story in North Wales. This particular strain of Coronavirus is on its way out and will be gone by January, as historically have other forms of CV (such as Sars), which only lasted 12 months.
But there'll be plenty more nasty mutations of the virus in future, perhaps deadlier, if we don't start to change our ways [modify our behaviour/lifestyle] and learn how to exist more in harmony with nature, and the planet we live in, rather than fighting against it and destroying it.
Marco.
Interesting interview here with Donald Trump, where he discusses various things, but particularly how he's going after and the 'Deep State' and confident of bringing them down:
https://youtu.be/gyYdNN_klWs
'Deep State' stuff starts around 9:15.... They're GOIN' DOWN, man - oh yeah...:acid:
Marco.
Marco,
Do you believe Trump is being sincere here?
He's known for pedaling Conspiracy Theories to benefit himself, as well as lying at the drop of a hat?
Anything and everything he says is suspect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump
Interesting interview here with Donald Trump, where he discusses various things, but particularly how he's going after and the 'Deep State' and confident of bringing them down:
https://youtu.be/gyYdNN_klWs
'Deep State' stuff starts around 9:15.... They're GOIN' DOWN, man - oh yeah...:acid:
Marco.
Yeah I fully acknowledge that, Gaz, but yes I do believe he's being sincere, as he's been actively doing something about it, by 'draining the swap', as he calls it, sacking and getting rid of people whom he considered were on the Deep State's payroll (and facilitating their agenda) - and I believe that there's plenty more to come!
There's no doubt that the 'Clinton Crew' tried their utmost, in many underhand and illegal ways (some treasonous) to have him removed from office, once he had WON the election, as they knew he'd go after them and bring them to justice [and try to dismantle the Deep State] - and that's exactly what will happen!:trust:
Marco.
HD Goofnut
29-06-2020, 09:56
Gaz, the first question should be who are the “commentators” and “fact-checkers” that have described this as "unprecedented" in American politics, what is their bias and exactly who is providing the so-called data.
I see the Washington Post mentioned and we all know how well they get on with Trump especially after Bezos lost the Pentagon contract to Microsoft when he thought he was a shoe in. Back in 2019 Bezos was earning almost $150,000 per minute. You would think that would provide him with enough satisfaction but I’m guessing not.
another death free covid day up here.. thats 4 on trot... non essential shops have opened today. Huge queues at primark in Glasgow apparently.. women getting their clothes fix:) will need to wait a while to see if it spikes anything..
Im staying indoors... ordered more frozen stuff to keep stocks up
Anyone in the house from Leicester?
walpurgis
30-06-2020, 18:29
Anyone in the house from Leicester?
Well they won't be popping round if there is.
Quite a few kids and teenagers testing positive as well in Leicester apparently, close community structure perhaps.
HD Goofnut
30-06-2020, 19:11
It’s amazing what a protest can do :whistle:
Well they won't be popping round if there is.
:D
Everyone should watch this video:
https://youtu.be/SeikqVzwH2U
SUPPORT BIG BROTHER WATCH. Fight to PROTECT YOUR CIVIL LIBERTIES and keep the authorities in check!!
Details here: https://mailchi.mp/bigbrotherwatch/new-facial-recognition-thermal-scanners-no-thanks-6442228?e=9509ffdbfa
:more::more:
Marco.
For reference:
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/01/areas-of-england-with-highest-weekly-rate-of-covid-19-cases/
Marco.
Apparently borders of Scotland have had a micro rise, which has been traced to n England.
Think this will be an issue around counties and countries withing UK. Fast T and, T is going to be essential
Scotland has now deemed masks mandatory in all shops etc.
Supposed to be getting less of covid so why is the restrictions getting tighter? Seems odd.. Maybe porkys have been told.
Anyway I struggle to breath in one so I'm fooked
more hypocrisy from boris's clan of pals etc... his dad flew to greece, via bulgaria(not allowed to fly in from uk to greece) even tho the FO say only essential travel allowed.. his reason? has to covid up his holiday let house so he can let it out/
fcukin' disgrace
more hypocrisy from boris's clan of pals etc... his dad flew to greece, via bulgaria(not allowed to fly in from uk to greece) even tho the FO say only essential travel allowed.. his reason? has to covid up his holiday let house so he can let it out/
fcukin' disgrace
The FO don't say that only essential travel is allowed. They just advise not to do it unless it is essential. So no rules broken, no laws broken, nothing to see here.
AJSki2fly
02-07-2020, 15:09
Scotland has now deemed masks mandatory in all shops etc.
Supposed to be getting less of covid so why is the restrictions getting tighter? Seems odd.. Maybe porkys have been told.
Anyway I struggle to breath in one so I'm fooked
I think there are exemptions if you have breathing difficulties, there are in England but best check for up your way
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
More updated figures for England...
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/02/how-does-your-area-rate-a-new-list-of-the-latest-covid-19-cases/Notable For me, considering I'm right on the border, the notable stat is:
Cheshire West & Chester 9.7 (12.3)
Minuscule infection rate there, so not much danger of the virus coming across the border into North Wales, where we're still seeing a few new cases, but outside of certain reported food plants, nothing drastic:)
Marco.
This is an interesting video, the contents of which if true could potentially lead to creating the next world war:
https://youtu.be/KGCb8Ms_yUg
Marco.
Don't believe everything you see on the Internet...
That's Peter Navarro, currently Trump's Trade Secretary, and has been pushing the Anti-China narrative for a while now.
Wasn't always like this for him, like a lot of Trump Staff they seem to ditch their Principles for some reason. :scratch:
Back in January and February he published two Memo's to the White House warning of the severity of an oncoming Pandemic if nothing was done.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/07/coronavirus-peter-navarro-warned-coronavirus-january-february/2959826001/
Now he argues with the Scientific experts, continues to downplay the threat and pumps up the Anti-China "yellows under the bed" rhetoric.
Here he is again the end of March, bear in mind this is AFTER he published two official Memo's to the White House forecasting the horrors of the Pandemic.
He got that right...just not the severity of it.
https://youtu.be/0kdrvwFdjhA
Not a guy to be taken at face value, based on past behavior.
People show you who they are...You believe them the first time.
In other News...
ain't She gorgeous? :eek:
Boris now putting blame for Care Home deaths on them "not following procedures"...
Usual post match spin from Downing Street.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/jul/07/uk-coronavirus-live-latest-updates-news-covid-19
Disgraceful, bloody disgraceful.
"Clap for Carer's...?" :rolleyes:
How do you know that's not correct? Are you just assuming it's incorrect because Boris is saying it?
Maybe it isn't true, I don't know. I don't have all the facts and the data. Do you?
yup, poor show. if they hadnt dumped thousands into the care homes from hospital, untested then allowed staff to mix with other homes, again all untested this wouldnt have happened.. Glad i was never in one... i'll top myself before going to one if it came to it.
but its not boris' fault.. nothing is
How do you know that's not correct? Are you just assuming it's incorrect because Boris is saying it?
Maybe it isn't true, I don't know. I don't have all the facts and the data. Do you?
Why would I assume that? https://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/17428.gif
Its not the person (Johnston) that's saying it Martin, or my opinion of what he says, its his MESSAGE...and unfortunately the hypocrisy of his Government in its handling of the Crisis.
I would invite you to do some research if your interested enough, there's lots of it out there.
The comments section with many Care Home staff giving their own accounts in that link I put up could be a starter for you.
So many personal accounts from Care Home staff and management doing their best and not getting the support or PPE equipment they were crying out for.
Shameful.
yup, poor show. if they hadnt dumped thousands into the care homes from hospital, untested then allowed staff to mix with other homes, again all untested this wouldnt have happened.. Glad i was never in one... i'll top myself before going to one if it came to it.
but its not boris' fault.. nothing is
Actually I was just reading yesterday that in fact there was no increase in the number of people going to care homes from hospital after the start of the pandemic. More fake news.
Added to which does anyone really think that when a patient is to be transferred from hospital to a care home that the PM makes that decision personally? For each one? Or is it in fact the case that the whole operation of transferring people from hospital to care has nothing to do with the PM, the government or the conservative party and is in fact managed and organised entirely by the NHS directors and managers, that being what they are specifically employed to do?
Glad i was never in one... i'll top myself before going to one if it came to it.
Never going to happen mate, as long as we're alive and fit! So even if for any reason your family couldn't look after you, we would. I'm totally serious, btw.
We have the right downstairs space to facilitate it, and the room even has a bed lift (hoist) fitted to the ceiling, left over from when we cared for Del's dad, plus the bathroom right next door doubles as 'wet room', with a huge shower area big enough to comfortably get a wheelchair in and out.
So worry not - homes will not be for you!:cool:
Marco.
Example:
Section 7 (Guidance on facemasks) of the Government's "Guidance for social or community care and residential settings on COVID-19", which was withdrawn on 13 March, stated in its entirety:
“During normal day-to-day activities facemasks do not provide protection from respiratory viruses, such as COVID-19 and do not need to be worn by staff in any of these settings. Facemasks are only recommended to be worn by infected individuals when advised by a healthcare worker, to reduce the risk of transmitting the infection to other people. It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.”
Why was this Guidance withdrawn...?
Never going to happen mate, as long as we're alive and fit! So even if for any reason your family couldn't look after you, we would. I'm totally serious, btw.
We have the right downstairs space to facilitate it, and the room even has a bed lift (hoist) fitted to the ceiling, left over from when we cared for Del's dad, plus the bathroom right next door doubles as 'wet room', with a huge shower area big enough to comfortably get a wheelchair in and out.
So worry not - homes will not be for you!:cool:
Marco.
lol... cheers...
way im going it might not be long
hifi_dave
07-07-2020, 13:32
Actually I was just reading yesterday that in fact there was no increase in the number of people going to care homes from hospital after the start of the pandemic. More fake news.
Added to which does anyone really think that when a patient is to be transferred from hospital to a care home that the PM makes that decision personally? For each one? Or is it in fact the case that the whole operation of transferring people from hospital to care has nothing to do with the PM, the government or the conservative party and is in fact managed and organised entirely by the NHS directors and managers, that being what they are specifically employed to do?
It was the NHS sending people with Covid back to their care homes because they couldn't be successfully treated in Hospitals. The ICU beds were needed for those who had a chance of recovering. They should have been kept in Hospital or the appropriate precautions and treatment being done in the care homes. Not sure whether the care homes could cope with an influx of ill people, though ?
Actually I was just reading yesterday that in fact there was no increase in the number of people going to care homes from hospital after the start of the pandemic. More fake news.
Added to which does anyone really think that when a patient is to be transferred from hospital to a care home that the PM makes that decision personally? For each one? Or is it in fact the case that the whole operation of transferring people from hospital to care has nothing to do with the PM, the government or the conservative party and is in fact managed and organised entirely by the NHS directors and managers, that being what they are specifically employed to do?
Twenty-five thousand people were discharged from hospital into care homes before the Government started testing all patients entering care homes and not just those with symptoms.
A new report by the National Audit Office confirms that 25,000 people moved from hospitals into care homes between mid-March and mid-April.
Jeremy Hunt, the Conservative former health secretary who now chairs the Commons Health Committee, said the findings were “extraordinary” and came “despite widespread knowledge that the virus could be carried asymptomatically”.
The latest figures show that more than 13,000 people have died in care homes from causes involving Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic.
The NAO’s report, which looks at the wider response of the NHS and the care sector to the pandemic, says the health service moved to ensure there “were enough beds and respiratory support nationally at the peak of the outbreak in April”.
Care home providers have criticised Boris Johnson after he said "too many care homes didn't really follow the procedures in the way that they could have" during the coronavirus pandemic.
At least 20,000 care home residents in England and Wales have died from Covid-19 since the start of the outbreak.
Vic Rayner, executive director of the National Care Forum, described the prime minister's comments as "neither accurate nor welcome" and said government guidance to the sector had come "in stops and starts, with organisations grappling with over 100 pieces of additional guidance".
There are an estimated 14,000 care homes in England. Most are privately run, but are regulated by national bodies and would typically act on advice from central as well as local government.
We don't know how each of them responded but what was some of the key guidance from government during the pandemic and did it come early enough?
Moving patients from hospitals to care homes
On 19 March, NHS guidance said that "unless required to be in hospital, patients must not remain in an NHS bed".
This policy was implemented to free up beds in advance of an expected surge in coronavirus patients.
On 2 April, the rules on discharging to care homes were clarified, saying "negative [coronavirus] tests are not required prior to transfers/admissions into the care home".
Even elderly patients who tested positive could be admitted to care homes, according to the document, if measures - such as wearing personal protective equipment (PPE) and isolation - were used.
From 15 April, the government said that all patients discharged from hospitals would be tested for coronavirus.
....
quite frankly the govt hadnt a bloody clue what they were doing imo
Pierre De Grenoble
07-07-2020, 14:01
Actually I was just reading yesterday that in fact there was no increase in the number of people going to care homes from hospital after the start of the pandemic. More fake news.
Added to which does anyone really think that when a patient is to be transferred from hospital to a care home that the PM makes that decision personally? For each one? Or is it in fact the case that the whole operation of transferring people from hospital to care has nothing to do with the PM, the government or the conservative party and is in fact managed and organised entirely by the NHS directors and managers, that being what they are specifically employed to do?
It's always been the case that Hospitals shift people out of their beds to wherever because it frees them of the bed load and shifts the cost to councils / care providers and off the NHS budget. This has been an accelerating problem because of Tory austerity politics.
It should have been obvious to a moron that if you ship people from a Covid / Hospital environment to a care home / whatever that some of those people were going to infect others and their carers. It was obvious from the start that there simply wasn't enough PPE in the country for both care and NHS.
It was also obvious that there simply wasn't enough testing facility available, so it became murder in the care home system.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It doesn't matter if a labour or Lib dem / whoever could have done it better as they were never given the chance.
10 years of austerity have damaged this country to the core and beyond, add piss poor decisions based on scientific advice which "chose" to help gloss over the UK's shortcomings and the governments ineptitude and we have at least a 45,000 death toll, an absolute tragedy to the families of the dead, and the economy in a much worse state than it might have been.
lol... cheers...
way im going it might not be long
Lol - just think of all that lovely grub - oh and the booze... My wine and your whisky collection - tons a fun!:drunk::D
Marco.
None of this explains why Boris is personally being blamed when it was in fact the responsibility of the senior healthcare professionals employed by the NHS to organise it, some of whom are paid a lot more than the PM.
Is that because no-one knows who they are? Or because you don't have an axe to grind against them? Or because you don't understand that it isn't the PMs job, and could never be, to micro manage every single minute facet of a country of 65 million people?
It's strange really. When Gordon Brown was PM I couldn't stand the man or his politics. But I never felt the need to come on here and post how he was personally responsible for everything bad that happened whilst he was the PM. Terrorist attacks, the worst flooding in 60 years, and the worst financial crash in history, to name just three.
Firstly, why would I bother doing that? What would be my motivation? Secondly I was well aware, having a reasonably good knowledge of how government, and indeed the wider world actually work, that they were not his personal fault.
I get the impression that there's far more concern with finding a stick, no matter how shitty, to beat Johnson with than there is for the people who died in the care homes.
Pierre De Grenoble
07-07-2020, 17:29
None of this explains why Boris is personally being blamed when it was in fact the responsibility of the senior healthcare professionals employed by the NHS to organise it, some of whom are paid a lot more than the PM.
Is that because no-one knows who they are? Or because you don't have an axe to grind against them? Or because you don't understand that it isn't the PMs job, and could never be, to micro manage every single minute facet of a country of 65 million people?
It's strange really. When Gordon Brown was PM I couldn't stand the man or his politics. But I never felt the need to come on here and post how he was personally responsible for everything bad that happened whilst he was the PM. Terrorist attacks, the worst flooding in 60 years, and the worst financial crash in history, to name just three.
Firstly, why would I bother doing that? What would be my motivation? Secondly I was well aware, having a reasonably good knowledge of how government, and indeed the wider world actually work, that they were not his personal fault.
I get the impression that there's far more concern with finding a stick, no matter how shitty, to beat Johnson with than there is for the people who died in the care homes.
If you should be replying to my post I was not even mentioning Billy Bluster, I was slagging the Tory administration in power since Brown was ejected. Having said that, the lying cnut has said "The buck stops here"... and he is responsible for everything that has happened with the reaction to the pandemic... Positive proof that he is not the great leader he thinks he is.
I've said before he'll be history soon as the 1922 neo-fascists kick him out.
If you should be replying to my post I was not even mentioning Billy Bluster, I was slagging the Tory administration in power since Brown was ejected. .
No I was just responding generally, wasn't specifically a reply to you.
The NHS in the current Pandemic crisis relies on Government guidelines for what to do.
Guidelines...followed.
Unlike the US where States are maybe now waking up to the fact there's no central Governmental thrust to work out "what to do" as a Country (Literally, its what a People pay Government to be responsible for come a "worst case scenario"...via taxes paid), we still follow Government guidance.
And Ours...unfortunately..is being made up on the Fly, and subject to Agenda.
https://youtu.be/DXFk-Ou2S-Y
Glib "Keyboard Warrior" swipes aside, this Folks, is serious.
But hey, it's a Hifi Forum. :eek:
Kudos Man.
Respect.
Lol - just think of all that lovely grub - oh and the booze... My wine and your whisky collection - tons a fun!:drunk::D
Marco.
No I was just responding generally, wasn't specifically a reply to you.
Sure.
Kudos Man.
Respect.
No worries, Gaz. Del and I have always been carers/the caring type, so we always look after people we care about. Grant knows the score, and should he ever need to give up his home, and is out of other options, bar being put in an old folks home, he'd be very well looked after here:)
Marco.
Good People...
Lang may yer Lum reek.
dave2010
08-07-2020, 07:06
I'm not sure it was only discharge to care homes which have been a problem. Now we know that men over 70 are perhaps the most vulnerable. I think there have been cases where an elderly couple had problems - let's say the woman had surgery at the beginning of the year - before the corona thing really became apparent. Then had some form of rehabilitation after that, but picked up the virus. Then, either by being sent home for a while, or by a visit from relatives, passed it on to her husband who was living at home, and still fairly capable. The final outcome is that the husband then dies - not expectedly a few weeks later, and then the wonderful care services which we have in this country then want to put the woman in a home, as it's now not obvious that she can live by herself in her own home. The man's death is just "written" off as collateral damage, as he was obviously too old anyway, and had non life threatening mobility problems.
I think there may be quite a number of cases like this, and they do cause problems for families, and obviously considerable distress.
There hasn't been enough attention or thought to many of the problems which have arisen due to this virus, though in fairness it has been rather a tough one to handle. Perhaps if we collectively had the knowledge we have now, things would have been done differently - though perhaps not by the people currently in government, some of whom could probably not run a booze up in a brewery.
walpurgis
08-07-2020, 07:19
Wow! A masterly bit of deduction from the W.H.O. Apparently Covid-19 may be transmitted by airborne particles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53329946
And, they've only had to spend countless millions and drag it out for seven months to draw this conclusion of the bleedin' obvious (It's only a 'maybe' though) :rolleyes:.
prestonchipfryer
08-07-2020, 07:34
Wow! A masterly bit of deduction from the W.H.O. Apparently Covid-19 may be transmitted by airborne particles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53329946
And, they've only had to spend countless millions and drag it out for seven months to draw this conclusion of the bleedin' obvious (It's only a 'maybe' though) :rolleyes:.
It's utterly moronic isn't it?! :rolleyes:
hifi_dave
08-07-2020, 08:16
Wow! A masterly bit of deduction from the W.H.O. Apparently Covid-19 may be transmitted by airborne particles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53329946
And, they've only had to spend countless millions and drag it out for seven months to draw this conclusion of the bleedin' obvious (It's only a 'maybe' though) :rolleyes:.
Beggars belief. Obvious to anyone with some brain cells. When this first started and the advice was to "wash your Hands", I was screaming "no". You don't just pick it up from surfaces but it is in the air, so why were we told not to wear masks ?
Where does this leave plane travel now ? How can you sit on a plane, breathing in the recycled air which has passed through 400 other passengers lungs for hours and not catch anything ?
With you on the air travel concerns - just about every time that I have flown I seem to spend the first few days of the holiday feeling shit/having a cold.
My wife and I may consider an autumn holiday, depending on the virus situation, but this summer is definitely out of the running.
walpurgis
11-07-2020, 11:21
If we're going to see a Coronavirus infection surge following the 'Super Saturday' pub free-for-all the weekend before last, it will be making itself known about now. Hopefully we won't see one, but it's a distinct possibility.
Bksabath
11-07-2020, 18:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1plkwhi5KUE
Now you all shut up and … Watch
The al of the video is pretty good but if you have any doubt that this is a man made thing skip to the 29 minute ( 29.24 ) and have a good think about it .
They lied to you when the said mask do not work
They lied to you when they said that Hydroxy cloraquine (used for malaria for the past 70 years) does not work
They lie to you when they fail to tell you about vitamin D and zinc
And why is so ?
Money Money Money
Can't stress this enough. watch those videos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!
It turns out that in 2015 those "scientist" where making studies on how corona viruses are being "neutralised" by zinc and have a wild guess where those studies came from …
In 10 years time there is going to be another movie like "official secrets" … what did you not ear about this one? one wonder why is not so known.
Bksabath
11-07-2020, 18:25
you where told not to wear a mask because billion of pound wasted on SPY agencies failed to spot a black out on communication's near Wuhan in December and the following spread of the virus so that your government was caught whit its pants down and did not tell you to get a mask as they where scared not to have one left for themselves, besides why one should give money to the Chinese for surgical mask, yes this is from where 99.9% of surgical mask are produced, while there is an economic war going on
Who really is going to give a S..T about a few plebs that lost a life or a job when one can make a load of money later.
Bksabath
11-07-2020, 18:43
Just been reading same of the dross here
I am quite surprised that you still debate about the integrity of the management here in the UK
You have any doubt about the hi moral standards of those peoples just start from the top and ask the opinion of Boris EX wife
No new deaths in Scotland for fifth day in row... Looking more promising up here...... Ive ordered some visors; see if they help with my breathing when out..british as well ;)
Long may it continue, mate! As for visors, can you get blue-tinted ones?:D
;)
Marco.
lol... in comparison, Florida sets new state daily case record of 15,299... usa is in serious shit.
anthonyTD
13-07-2020, 12:58
To go with your Blue Rinse! :eek::D
Long may it continue, mate! As for visors, can you get blue-tinted ones?:D
;)
Marco.
Long may it continue, mate! As for visors, can you get blue-tinted ones?:D
;)
Marco.
No, but you may be able to get "rose-tinted" ones. :D
Lol.... It's obvious though those who haven't got the football reference!
Marco.
Of course, although Scotland has pockets of highly populated areas theres more people living in London than Ireland, Wales and Scotland combined.
So, it seems to me that the parasite countries hanging onto Englands coattails ( JOKE ) should be doing better....... me thinks :)
Ha - from a Scottish point of view, you can cut us loose from yer skanky coat tails anytime... Independence can't come quick enough!:ner:;)
One thing's for sure, 'The Sturge' would make a damn sight better PM than Buffoon-boy:exactly:
Marco.
Ha - from a Scottish point of view, you can cut us loose from yer skanky coat tails anytime... Independence can't come quick enough!:ner:;)
One thing's for sure, 'The Sturge' would make a damn sight better PM than Buffoon-boy:exactly:
Marco. See how well the economy survives on yer own..... Don't see it myself :scratch: And lets see Nicky baby perform like Boris can on a zip wire :eek:
Pierre De Grenoble
13-07-2020, 19:30
Always thought that La Sturge has a nice arse, would look awesome bent over a table and then you couldn't see the crankie visage.. :sofa:
I take it that you will be joining in giving her the clap on the 19th :)
Antibodies from llamas found to stop coronavirus entering human cells
AJSki2fly
14-07-2020, 12:37
Antibodies from llamas found to stop coronavirus entering human cells
Ooh I’d love a soft down coat
Never had Squirrel plague on my 2020 Hellscape Bingo card.... :scratch:
Squirrel tests positive for the bubonic plague in Colorado amid fears Black Death will jump to humans
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519861/Squirrel-tests-positive-bubonic-plague-Colorado-county-just-outside-Denver.html
walpurgis
14-07-2020, 17:08
Never had Squirrel plague on my 2020 Hellscape Bingo card.... :scratch:
Squirrel tests positive for the bubonic plague in Colorado amid fears Black Death will jump to humans
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8519861/Squirrel-tests-positive-bubonic-plague-Colorado-county-just-outside-Denver.html
Far easier to contain and deal with being a bacterial infection with antibiotics available that are effective against it.
walpurgis
14-07-2020, 17:11
If we're going to see a Coronavirus infection surge following the 'Super Saturday' pub free-for-all the weekend before last, it will be making itself known about now. Hopefully we won't see one, but it's a distinct possibility.
Looks as though I could be right, numbers are going up!
Not in most places around the UK, mate... Plus remember there's been much more testing happening!;)
And as I've said before, cases aren't the problem; large amounts of hospital admissions or deaths are, so those are the only stats I'll be paying much attention to...
Marco.
walpurgis
14-07-2020, 17:33
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Not in most places around the UK, mate... Plus remember there's been much more testing happening!;)
And as I've said before, cases aren't the problem - large amounts of hospital admissions or deaths are, so those are the only stats I'll be paying much attention to...
Marco.
6 days with no deaths up here and now only 2 on ventalators... hoping it stays this way and i can have a little near normal again
I pray for you, mate, that it does :)
Marco.
I pray for you, mate, that it does :)
Marco.
cheers.. my breathing is much better since i fixed my asthma... doubled my doses and im able to breath a bit now.. legs are weak still
Nice one, mate. And the more you use them, the stronger they'll get! :)
Marco.
cheers.. my breathing is much better since i fixed my asthma... doubled my doses and im able to breath a bit now.. legs are weak still
good news. How s the mobility scooter going btw ?
And on face masks: https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/14/tory-backlash-over-mandatory-face-coverings-for-englanda-s-shop/
Key quote...
If you look at the statistics regarding the cases and the death rate, which is plummeting... why now you would bring in mandatory face masks?" she said.
The other strand for me is the libertarian strand. I think people should be trusted, I think we should be given a choice.
I'm really angry at how the Government has invoked fear in its population to control people – I think that is the wrong way to manage a population and to govern.
Hear, fucking hear!! :clap:
And this chap nails the REAL reason (aside from control, through fear) for the move to make the wearing of face masks mandatory:
Researchers found that even homemade masks with limited effectiveness can dramatically reduce transmission rates if worn by enough people, regardless of whether they show symptoms.
However, Alistair Haimes, a data analyst and owner of a private investment company, said he has not seen any evidence which convinced him that face masks would have a meaningful impact on transmission of the virus.
"All it is, it's very transparently that they think that people will be more confident to go back to shops and offices if they wear them than if they don't", he said.
"I think people should be free to wear them. I just object to being told what to do."
Exactly!!!
I'll be wearing hee-haw masks, I can assure you,.. Thankfully, the Welsh government are (so far) resisting the temptation to make them mandatory in shops in Wales, as (like me) they're unconvinced of their genuine efficacy, but no doubt they'll eventually cave into the pressure and follow suit!
I'd rather shop online than be FORCED to wear a face mask, or indeed FORCED to do anything by the authorities that I don't consider is necessary. We should always be very wary of anything that the 'powers that be' decide to make MANDATORY, controlling us accordingly and removing our freedoms, especially this mask nonsense, the true effectiveness of which is questionable, as indeed are the reasons for the wearing of them now becoming compulsory.
Always stand up to protect your civil liberties and refuse to be ruled, and if it's justified, never be afraid to fight for your freedom!
Marco.
good news. How s the mobility scooter going btw ?
not been used for a few months, so hoping its ok thanks.. i checked battery last month and it was ok. car is getting a 5/7 mile spin every few days to keep it going.
a friend was round today with my boy.. he says shops like tesco are back to pretty much normal.. i have a face visor now lol
And on face masks: https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/14/tory-backlash-over-mandatory-face-coverings-for-englanda-s-shop/
Key quote...
Hear, fucking hear!! :clap:
And this chap nails the REAL reason (aside from control, through fear) for the move to make the wearing of face masks mandatory:
Exactly!!!
Marco.
i think its because folk are getting back to mingling... thats mingling, not minging :eyebrows:
InThe Sticks
14-07-2020, 19:35
How is being asking to wear a mask removing ones freedom exactly?
Lets put it into perspective, we're being asked to wear a mask for say 15 minutes when we shop, but the health and care workers have to wear them for say 8-12 hours plus a day.
What's the hardship for the shopping public?
If any of us were unfortunate enough to get the virus, would we lecture our NHS carers that their freedom was being eroded for wearing a mask and keeping us safe?
This backlash against masks seems (and i've been following all avenues of social media etc since it was announced) to be from the left and people who've got absolutely fuck all better to do with their time.
Too many armchair experts on this...Not a dig at anyone here btw...but with many different takes on what’s happening and why flying around I’m very careful where I get my information from.
Trusting what Dr Anthony Fauci is putting out above any other source.
Director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since the 80’s, and Advisor to every President since Reagan on Public Health.
The fact Trump is attempting to discredit him now speaks for itself:
“Were doing a wonderful job, nothing to see here, go back to school kids...” etc.
Fauci’s - facts based on science and data driven statements on mask wearing and why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5l5UGS9ngc
Sorry, anything else is just noise.
Sorry, Jon, totally disagree. However, my main point (and grievance) is that it's being made MANDATORY. If the wearing of face masks was simply a government *recommendation* or advisory, then it would be different, and so might my feelings towards the matter. We're not being asked; we're being TOLD, and with the prospect of being fined £100 by the police for non-compliance. That's the difference!
I don't like being TOLD what to do [which, to answer your question, is in effect removing my freedom], hence if it becomes the same in Wales, I'll be shopping online until this pandemic is over and/or the levels of infection are so low that the government can no longer justify the wearing of face coverings as mandatory. Therefore, my decision not to wear one in the meantime won't be 'harming' anyone!
The point is, if they get mass compliance, and such little resistance with this mandatory measure, what else in future will become MANDATORY - vaccines?;)
Yeah, a vaccine that by the time it's introduced will be to 'cure' a virus that'll have already mutated several times, and where it's strongly suspected that those who've had it only retain a level of immunity for around 3 months! So what chance at this stage is there of a vaccine being any more effective??
None... But that won't stop them from introducing one because money needs to be made!!:doh:
Marco.
Too many armchair experts on this...Not a dig at anyone here btw...but with many different takes on what’s happening and why flying around I’m very careful where I get my information from.
Trusting what Dr Anthony Fauci is putting out above any other source.
Director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since the 80’s, and Advidor to every President since Reagan on Public Health.
The fact Trump is attempting to discredit him now speaks for itself:
“Were doing a wonderful job, nothing to see here, go back to school kids...” etc.
Fauci’s - fact based on science and data driven statements on mask wearing and why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5l5UGS9ngc
Anything else is just noise.
You mean the same Fauci who's on the payroll of Bill Gates and the Elite? :doh: Sorry, no chance! Trump is discrediting him now because he's discovered where his allegiances lie... He's another bent fuck that will be exposed soon and get his comeuppance.
So, I'm sorry, but I stand by everything I said earlier.
Marco.
i think its because folk are getting back to mingling... thats mingling, not minging :eyebrows:
Well, let's see how long the rule remains in place in Scotland, in the face of ever-falling infection rates among the Scottish population... If things continue as they are [and let's hope so], how will they be able to continue justifying the mandatory wearing of masks?
I predict it'll simply become part of the the 'new normal', if WE allow it to happen, and continue meekly acquiescing to their mind control.
Have masks ever been introduced before for 'protecting' people against the flu? And which historically has killed many, many more people worldwide than Covid-19 has or ever will do! No - and that's because flu has never been able to be used as an excuse for the authorities to try and control how we live.
Marco.
You mean the same Fauci who's on the payroll of Bill Gates and the Elite? :doh: Sorry, no chance! Trump is discrediting him now because he's discovered where his allegiances lie... He's another bent fuck that will be exposed soon and get his comeuppance.
So, I'm sorry, but I stand by everything I said earlier.
Marco.
Happy to read any proof of this otherwise it’s just speculation and belief.
Not trying to change anyones opinions, we all believe what we believe.
Lol - of course there's no 'proof' of such available yet in the public domain, otherwise Fauci would've already have been dealt with. Do your own research into him, mate, the same as i have, and then as you say, believe what you want to believe;)
Marco.
My main concern is the "sense of security" that a face mask gives overrides lots of peoples care and concern for others.
It has been very noticeable to me, on shopping trips, that lots of people give up on any form of social distancing once they have the mask (or worse full face visor) on. Several times I have been bumped in to by people (funnily enough mostly women) when they stretch to reach goods. If they feel that confident with a mask, do they even bother with hand washing?
Indeed, Guy! Exactly my thoughts, and (thankfully for now) also those of the Welsh Government. So I wonder who is 'right'? You have to judge the situation as a whole.
And just *how* effective are the homemade masks, which most people will be wearing, against preventing the spread of Coronavirus - and where's the indisputable scientific proof for that?
Will any checks be done to ensure that the masks people are wearing have been made correctly? I doubt it, which is why, as the video I posted a link to earlier showed, with the chap going into a Walmart store wearing what was effectively a completely open mask and no-one saying diddly squat, it shows it's far more about COMPLIANCE than safety!
If they're going to make anything compulsory, then make it the wearing of a proper PPE face shield and mask (as used by NHS workers), as at least they're proven to be effective, thus will prevent the spread of the virus, but they won't do that for obvious reasons.
And if police officers aren't available to enforce this new rule for wearing masks, or fine those who flout it (as they could be involved in dealing with something more important elsewhere), then who's going to do it - a shop assistant on minimum wage? I don't think so, especially if someone has strong feelings on the matter, and things could get heated!
No, they're simply relying on the propensity of the good old British public to behave like sheep and do what they're told, and which is sadly what will probably happen:doh:
Marco.
Well I won't be flying anywhere in the near future. The thought of having to wear a mask for hours on end is not for me.
I believe that some carriers say those flying business class will not have to wear masks during the flight - but the increase in ticket price to do so is a heavy price to pay for most people.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Also see here: https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/14/latest-weekly-covid-19-rates-for-local-authority-areas-in-englan/
I guess it depends on the figures you want to believe;)
Marco.
Mikeandvan
15-07-2020, 00:13
Sorry, Jon, totally disagree. However, my main point (and grievance) is that it's being made MANDATORY. If the wearing of face masks was simply a government *recommendation* or advisory, then it would be different, and so might my feelings towards the matter. We're not being asked; we're being TOLD, and with the prospect of being fined £100 by the police for non-compliance. That's the difference!
I don't like being TOLD what to do [which, to answer your question, is in effect removing my freedom], hence if it becomes the same in Wales, I'll be shopping online until this pandemic is over and/or the levels of infection are so low that the government can no longer justify the wearing of face coverings as mandatory. Therefore, my decision not to wear one in the meantime won't be 'harming' anyone!
The point is, if they get mass compliance, and such little resistance with this mandatory measure, what else in future will become MANDATORY - vaccines?;)
Yeah, a vaccine that by the time it's introduced will be to 'cure' a virus that'll have already mutated several times, and where it's strongly suspected that those who've had it only retain a level of immunity for around 3 months! So what chance at this stage is there of a vaccine being any more effective??
None... But that won't stop them from introducing one because money needs to be made!!:doh:
Marco.
Completely agree, went into a shop the other day, was told to follow the arrows, i did briefly but then didn't want to walk around a particular section, a total waste of time to me, bloke told me again, i just left the shop, felt like a fucking idiot, having to do some stupid waltz around part of the shop i had no interest in, like you say, if shopping becomes too much of a pita I just won't bother. On the contrary went to London department stores, none of this crap, no arrows to follow, just entry and entrance specified, that was fine. By the way, what happens when furlough ends and 9 million peoples jobs are in the air? This shit is crazy, we've willingly walked into a massive economic downturn, the likes of which hasn't been seen since the 1930s. Expect the breakdown of the world economy in 2021, and then Trump and Xi Jinping go head to head. Everything is unstable at the moment, Putin, the Arab world, the US, UK, I wouldn't put nuclear holocaust off the menu either, there's just no alternatives.
InThe Sticks
15-07-2020, 05:31
My main concern is the "sense of security" that a face mask gives overrides lots of peoples care and concern for others.
It has been very noticeable to me, on shopping trips, that lots of people give up on any form of social distancing once they have the mask (or worse full face visor) on. Several times I have been bumped in to by people (funnily enough mostly women) when they stretch to reach goods. If they feel that confident with a mask, do they even bother with hand washing?
I popped in to Tesco (Copdock) after work yesterday and there absolutely zero social distancing, and for some reason they'd removed all the arrows from the floor.
I can't say i saw many (apart from most elderly) wearing a mask, whereas when i went into Asda last week the opposite was true.
Not sure what it is with Tesco, but i've seen a lot a people saying the same thing. Greed, i guess.
I popped in to Tesco (Copdock) after work yesterday and there absolutely zero social distancing, and for some reason they'd removed all the arrows from the floor.
I can't say i saw many (apart from most elderly) wearing a mask, whereas when i went into Asda last week the opposite was true.
Not sure what it is with Tesco, but i've seen a lot a people saying the same thing. Greed, i guess.
Thats the one in particular - I was queuing for the checkout (only three people in front) which runs by the soft drinks. Rather large woman behind me, wearing visor and also queuing for checkout, decided that she wanted a bottle of Diet Coke which happened to be on the shelf next to me. So she moved forward, banged in to me as she stretched out to get it.
Stupid woman would have been next to what she wanted as the line moved forward, but no patience - "I want, and I want it NOW" :steam:
Indeed, Guy! Exactly my thoughts, and (thankfully for now) also those of the Welsh Government. So I wonder who is 'right'? You have to judge the situation as a whole.
And just *how* effective are the homemade masks, which most people will be wearing, against preventing the spread of Coronavirus - and where's the indisputable scientific proof for that?
.
Not effective at all according to the Centre For Infectious Disease. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
Surgical masks are not much better. These pound shop things you see the odd (in both senses of the word) people wearing are equally ineffective. They will slightly contain a cough or sneeze compared to nothing though, so there is some marginal benefit. But as CFID point out, this can be more than nullified by the unwarranted sense of safety mask-wearers can have.
walpurgis
15-07-2020, 07:36
Of course a facemask will have some useful effect. It's obviously not airtight (you'd suffocate :rolleyes:), but it provides some deflection and a modest amount of filtering. You only have to watch the fumes billowing around enthusiastic vape pen/Ecigarette users to realise how breath travels.
For those with a preference for wearing a mask,
Proper certified SN KN95 masks here:
https://www.gearbest.com/braces---supports/pp_3007767955841388.html?wid=2000001#goodsDetail
(https://www.gearbest.com/braces---supports/pp_3007767955841388.html?wid=2000001#goodsDetail)
Poundland specials/ Your Grannie's scarf don't work and gives a false sense of security which I personally wouldn't bet on.
Putting it another way:
If a fart...with its large brown particles :D... can travel through a set of undercrackers AND a pair of jeans;
a thin piece of cloth around your face wont stop aerosol transmission of Covid-19.
You breath through the material, and that is filtered down to a particular particle size.
walpurgis
15-07-2020, 08:19
If a fart...with its large brown particles :D... can travel through a set of undercrackers AND a pair of jeans;
a thin piece of cloth around your face wont stop aerosol transmission of Covid-19.
Same principle applies to women wearing perfume. If you can smell them, as you often can, they can potentially infect you.
Beobloke
15-07-2020, 08:50
I'll be wearing hee-haw masks, I can assure you,..
Really? I've just been wearing a normal one. Are you sure a donkey mask would provide the right level of protection?
:D
Same principle applies to women wearing perfume. If you can smell them, as you often can, they can potentially infect you.
...and I guess that would also apply to someone with the flu or any other infectious disease, so where does it end?
Must we from now on all walk around with masks on, face shields, or goodness knows what else, in constant fear of being 'infected' by this, that or the next thing, continually disinfecting ourselves and treating each other as lepers, whilst our immune systems slowly become weakened to the point of ineffectiveness?
That's not how humans are biologically designed to function! We've always lived in the presence of (potentially fatal) infectious diseases, many more deadly than Covid-19, without all this palaver. It's BULLSHIT.
The sooner we learn to live with this virus, as we've done before with any other, without the removal of our freedom of choice, the better, but that will never happen if we continue meekly complying with every unjustified mandatory measure that the government impose on us!
Be very careful people, about where all this could end, if we all just sit back and take it :trust:
Marco.
they help reduce the trajectory of coughs, sneezes etc, so you dont infect anyone i guess.. who now reccommends them, so im sure they play a part in reducing transmission. its not an 'instead of proper hygiene and distancing thing tho'
...and I guess that would also apply to someone with the flu or any other infectious disease, so where does it end?
Must we from now on all walk around with masks on, face shields, or goodness knows what else, in constant fear of being 'infected' by this, that or the next thing, continually disinfecting ourselves, and treating each other as lepers, whilst our immune systems slowly become weakened to the point of ineffectiveness?
That's not how humans are biologically designed to function! We've always lived in the presence of (potentially fatal) infectious diseases, many more deadly than Covid-19, without all this palaver. It's BULLSHIT.
The sooner we learn to live with this virus, as we've done before with any other, without the removal of our freedom of choice, the better, but that will never happen if we continue meekly complying with every unjustified mandatory measure that the government impose on us!
Be very careful people, about where all this could end, if we just sit back and take it :trust:
Marco.
tbh it does, or probably should do; but there it should be if you have a cough, cold or flu like symptoms but have to go out.. I get annoyed at all the folk wandering about shops etc coughing all over others and produce etc..
Really? I've just been wearing a normal one. Are you sure a donkey mask would provide the right level of protection?
:D
Very good!
Marco.
tbh it does, or probably should do; but there it should be if you have a cough, cold or flu like symptoms but have to go out.. I get annoyed at all the folk wandering about shops etc coughing all over others and produce etc..
Mask wearing should never be mandatory though, Grant. As humans, we're designed to 'catch' things, and our body deals with them and we become STRONGER as a result. The behaviour you've outlined annoys me too, but the answer isn't to FORCE everyone, the majority who conduct themselves properly, to behave in a certain way.
As I've frequently said, extremes/blanket measures simply don't work and are never a proper solution to anything.
One of the main reasons why people are weaker than ever now, in that respect, is because for years so many of us have been pumped full of antibiotics/chemicals, which basically poison our system in order to 'treat' a condition, which is largely lifestyle/diet related, rather than changing/improving the latter [tackling the issue at source] and removing or lessening the need for antibiotics.
But the promotion and creation of a healthier lifestyle/stronger immune system, and generally healthier human population, doesn't make money for the big pharmaceutical companies, does it?;)
Marco.
Really? I've just been wearing a normal one. Are you sure a donkey mask would provide the right level of protection?
:D
Probably not, but if we do all adopt animal face masks things will rapidly start getting a bit 'Wicker Man':
https://i.ibb.co/rdBcnZ0/Wicker-Man-1973-3.png (https://ibb.co/fD3nmCF)
Of course there are areas of Scotland where they think The Wicker Man is a documentary so that might be where Marco was coming from...
Mask wearing should never be mandatory though, Grant. As humans, we're designed to 'catch' things, and our body deals with them and we become STRONGER as a result. That behaviour annoys me too, but the answer isn't to FORCE everyone, many who don't do what you've described, to behave in a certain way. As I've frequently said, extremes simply don't work.
One of the main reasons why we're weaker than ever now, in that respect, is because for years so many of us have been pumped full of antibiotics, which basically poison our system in order to 'treat' a condition, which is largely lifestyle/diet related, rather than changing/improving the latter [tackling the issue at source] and removing, or lessening the need for antibiotics.
But the promotion and creation of a healthier lifestyle, and generally healthier human race doesn't make money for the pharmaceutical companies, does it?;)
Marco.
i dont know in this case.. folk were not bothering on there own bat tbh. Guy that does the boy's shopping says few were wearing them, but now if you want in you have to.
Obviously i wont accept the need for them all time and sure the govt will cancel it when the risks say so; or feel the voter's ire.
but if youve got an infection and go out it should be mandatory to wear them in confined places.. its only fair and would save the country a fortune
Not effective at all according to the Centre For Infectious Disease. https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
Surgical masks are not much better. These pound shop things you see the odd (in both senses of the word) people wearing are equally ineffective. They will slightly contain a cough or sneeze compared to nothing though, so there is some marginal benefit. But as CFID point out, this can be more than nullified by the unwarranted sense of safety mask-wearers can have.
Precisely! As I said before, ultimately this is more about (supposedly) giving people more confidence to go out and shop, in an attempt to help the economy, and to make them feel 'safer' doing so, and less about preventing the spread of the virus.
Trouble is, it's likely to backfire on them when, as Mike pointed out earlier, it simply becomes too much of a ballache to physically shop, and/or folk like me who refuse to be made to wear a face mask stop going to shops, and so it simply drives everything online and fatally kills the high street once and for all!
Or maybe, that's actually what they want....?;)
Marco.
i dont know in this case.. folk were not bothering on there own bat tbh. Guy that does the boy's shopping says few were wearing them, but now if you want in you have to.
Obviously i wont accept the need for them all time and sure the govt will cancel it when the risks say so; or feel the voter's ire.
but if youve got an infection and go out it should be mandatory to wear them in confined places.. its only fair and would save the country a fortune
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, mate. I have a MASSIVE problem with anything like this being made mandatory by the authorities, in a supposedly free country!
As for the bit in bold, like I said before, let's see how long it lasts in Scotland, as zero death rates continue, and the presence and influence of the virus continues to diminish...
Should that still be the case in, say, a month's time, then what would your position be on the mandatory wearing of face masks, or how long do you think the ruling could justifiably be allowed to continue in that situation, where they're simply no longer needed?
Marco.
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, mate. I have a MASSIVE problem with anything like this being made mandatory by the authorities, in a supposedly free country!
As for the bit in bold, like I said before, let's see how long it lasts in Scotland, as zero death rates continue, and the presence and influence of the virus continues to diminish...
Should that still be the case in, say, a month's time, then what would your position be on the mandatory wearing of face masks, or how long do you think the ruling could justifiably be allowed to continue in that situation, where they're simply no longer needed?
Marco.
id expect it to be reduced to prefferable in 2 months, if we continue to keep on top.. trouble is few countries are as clear as we are so incomers are the risk at moment.
im not big on laws re freedom either as its a slippery slope, but this is a very dangerous time as we dont want it coming back and shutting down the country
Beobloke
15-07-2020, 10:01
and/or folk like me who refuse to be made to wear a face mask stop going to shops, and so it simply drives everything online and fatally kills the high street once and for all!
Or maybe, that's actually what they want....?;)
Marco.
But that’s a choice you’re making. You’re choosing not to support the high street because you don’t want to wear a mask and that’s fine, but you can then go blaming the closure of high street shops on masks if it’s simply people refusing to wear them!
I’m not a fan of wearing a mask, but I wanted my hair cut on Monday and I needed an eye test yesterday and both establishments required me to wear one, so I stuck one on and got on with it. I fail to see the issue to be honest - if it provides even a small amount of protection from the coughing, sneezing dimwits who are out and about, there what’s the problem?
Indeed, but as has already been pointed out, the type of face masks most people will be wearing really aren't at all effective, so in reality they'll do next to hee-haw [there's that word again and it's got nowt to do with animals:D] to control the virus.
In reality, the making of it mandatory is about something completely different. So let's see where we are then, particularly you up in Scotland, in 2 months time...
Marco.
depends on your definition of effective. they may not protect the wearer particularly well, but they do reduce risk to others near you. as more places open, it gets more of a risk, and dont tell me folk will be sensible... many wont be and thus they are the likely risks.
I dont mind giving some temp freedom to making my country and its imhabitants safer.... but, yes it must only be temp.
But that’s a choice you’re making. You’re choosing not to support the high street because you don’t want to wear a mask and that’s fine, but you can then go blaming the closure of high street shops on masks if it’s simply people refusing to wear them!
No, I WANT to support the high street, it's what I've always done, as I detest online shopping for anything but the most basic/mundane of items, but I won't be FORCED into wearing something that I don't want to wear, and crucially that I consider is largely ineffective, simply to be compliant!
And the more people who think like me, and become tired of the physical shopping experience being made to become more and more of a chore, with the enjoyment/spontaneity sucked out of it [and there are many], the less they will use the high street - and if that eventually leads to its closure, then the government will only have themselves to blame!
The point is, people don't like being controlled or made to behave in a certain way unless THEY agree that the reasons behind it are entirely justified. It's not enough for the 'powers that be' simply to impose rules, and we're all supposed to just meekly comply! :doh:
Intelligent, free-thinking people CHALLENGE and QUESTION things before they'll accept them, as to do otherwise simply leads to the erosion of our civil liberties and enslavement, which is why others and I are rightfully *extremely* protective of our freedoms.
So if some folk are happy simply to bend over and obey the authorities, without question on this matter, good luck to them, but I won't be one of them.
I’m not a fan of wearing a mask, but I wanted my hair cut on Monday and I needed an eye test yesterday and both establishments required me to wear one, so I stuck one on and got on with it. I fail to see the issue to be honest - if it provides even a small amount of protection from the coughing, sneezing dimwits who are out and about, there what’s the problem?
And that's the problem. So either you haven't read what others and I here have been saying, or you're simply happy to comply with the imposition of unjustified mandatory rules for an 'easy life'... It's a typical and unfortunate reaction of the masses, who simply want to 'fit in'/not rock the boat, and I'd say be careful what you wish for!;)
Marco.
depends on your definition of effective. they may not protect the wearer particularly well, but they do reduce risk to others near you. as more places open, it gets more of a risk, and dont tell me folk will be sensible... many wont be and thus they are the likely risks.
I dont mind giving some temp freedom to making my country and its imhabitants safer.... but, yes it must only be temp.
Me too, if I honestly thought that's what was happening, but unfortunately I don't believe it is. You have to get out of the comfort zone, and largely the way we've been brought up to believe that the government (or other controlling world organisations) always has our best interests at heart, when in reality the opposite is more often true!
Marco.
Beobloke
15-07-2020, 10:26
So if some folk are happy simply to bend over and obey the authorities, without question, good luck to them, but I won't be one of them.
When the organisation in question is the World Health Organisation and their advice is that wearing masks is beneficial, isn’t it rather foolish to ignore them?
Or are they corrupt and biased and in the pockets of Trump/Bill Gates/David Icke as well?
No comment on that, for now...;)
But, based on what I've been saying all along, take a guess what my view might be on the matter.
Marco.
dont have a high st here now. was taxed out of market years ago by council.. just cheap tat shop[s and charity ones that charge a fortune.. i dont have access anyway tbh being disabled. much easier to go to an all on flat place; souless i know but needs must when the devil is biting your tail
dont have a high st here now. was taxed out of market years ago by council.. just cheap tat shop[s and charity ones that charge a fortune.. i dont have access anyway tbh being disabled. much easier to go to an all on flat place; souless i know but needs must when the devil is biting your tail
Indeed, and that's sad to hear and unfortunately increasingly common - and the 'new normal' they're seeking to create, which we're just starting to see the beginning of, will do little to alter that state of affairs.
Luckily, at least for now, where I am, even in Wrexham, there is still a fairly healthy town centre, full of not only crap shops, but also decent privately owned businesses, and I only need to hop into Chester (a 15 min journey in the car) to get all the (good) shops I need.
And I'd like that to remain the case for the foreseeable future, as I don't 'do' soulless existences [my life centres around living well, being happy and enjoying myself], so will do as much as I can to protect that:)
Marco.
Breakin’ it down...
https://i.imgur.com/NjBqfkj.jpg
can ignore after two minutes, or completely I’d you’d prefer.
https://youtu.be/A0UclAmrhVI
Breakin’ it down...
https://i.imgur.com/NjBqfkj.jpg
Lol - except that how Coronavirus (or other viral infections) spread/behave is rather different from "PIPI"!:D
Marco.
Yes that's not a very good analogy. Take a look at how small a virus particle actually is.
It’s not meant to be taken literally? :doh:
Can get as technical as you like, no point though, I’ve chosen not to accept that Mission.
Yes that's not a very good analogy. Take a look at how small a virus particle actually is.
Indeed... Plus, you can pull out any number of videos, the contents of which simply support your point of view, but that doesn't make it fact.
A case in point being the one Gaz has just posted. How can not wearing a mask be the difference between 'life and death', for everyone, when statistics have clearly shown that the death rate for this virus [thankfully for the vast majority of people] is painfully low?
The fact is, a virus that has caused 46,000 deaths (although 46,000 too many) out of a population of 67 million (the UK), many which could've been saved had we known more about what we were dealing with before, and the knowledge of which now will stand us in good stead for if/when it hits us again, is NOT something that we should be allowing to CONTROL our lives - simples!!
Everyone is being unnecessarily brainwashed by fear, perpetrated daily by the mainstream media!:doh:
Tip: if you don't want that to happen, and choose instead to be better informed, and happier in the process, watch or listen to less mainstream news;)
Marco.
Beobloke
15-07-2020, 11:34
Indeed... Plus, you can pull out any number of videos, the contents of which simply support your point of view, but that doesn't make it fact.
But equally, you can post any number of videos rubbishing some of the latest medical advice, but that doesn’t necessarily make the advice bollocks, either.
Indeed not; it's about analysing as much information as possible, from various sources, and choosing what you want to believe - or which expert to hang your hat on!;)
The point is NOT to automatically believe anything, simply because on the surface it might make sense or appease your sensibilities, no matter WHO has endorsed it. You need to be FAR more critical (and also questioning/sceptical/non-trusting) than that, if you ever want to get to the real truth about anything!
Marco.
Yes that's not a very good analogy. Take a look at how small a virus particle actually is.
yeah but ot needs a carrier fluid etc, so to stop the fluid and....
Expertise in a given field and “facts” are actually a thing in the real world...
just a thought.
Not every source of information is equally helpful, and can actually be harmful.
Id not ask a Joiner’s opinion on my elective surgery...
for instance.
Expertise in a given field and “facts” are actually a thing in the real world...
just a thought.
Not every source of information is equally helpful, and can actually be harmful.
Indeed, but that applies equally to the sources of information you consider contain facts, just the same as others or mine.
Furthermore, the point about expertise is that experts are also prone to bias and have personal agendas, and sometimes that bias/those agendas can skew the reliability of the information that they provide and put into the public domain!;)
Marco.
yeah but ot needs a carrier fluid etc so stop the fluid and....
Could you write that again properly please?;)
Bloody phones simply don't lend themselves to the proper construction of sentences, and just make you lazy!:ner:
Marco.
Expertise in a given field and “facts” are actually a thing in the real world...
just a thought.
Not every source of information is equally helpful, and can actually be harmful.
Id not ask a Joiner’s opinion on my elective surgery...
for instance.
On the other hand someone can be highly qualified and experienced in their field but still give incorrect information or advice because they have ulterior (financial, political, religious) reasons for doing so.
This is why god gave us logic and common sense.
Jeez, I can't believe you've just said that!:eek:
Needless to say though, I wholeheartedly agree. It's also why intelligent people rarely, if ever, take anything on face value, especially when it comes to politics!!
It often pays to look for a hidden angle..... But it's simply more comfortable to believe that there isn't one, especially when what's being said fits with your belief system, and why that's the approach people most commonly adopt.
Plus, too many folk are afraid of challenging the accepted norm [or what the government now seek to create as such], let alone, if necessary, rebelling against it! As I said before, anything for a 'quiet life':rolleyes:
Far easier to be a sheep than a rebel...
Marco.
Jeez, I can't believe you've just said that!:eek:
Needless to say though, I wholeheartedly agree. It's also why intelligent people rarely, if ever, take anything on face value, especially when it comes to politics!!
It pays to always look for the hidden angle..... But it's simply more comfortable to believe that there isn't one, especially when the information in question fits with your belief system, which is why that's the more common approach.
Plus, too many people are afraid of challenging the accepted norm, let alone, if necessary, rebelling against it! As I said before, anything for an 'easy life':rolleyes:
Far easier to be a sheep than a rebel...
Marco.
Well that same proviso also applies to those forwarding all sorts of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories - it cuts both ways.
But we agree that the purpose of the mask thing is to increase public confidence, not prevent virus spread. Which is why the requirement is only for 'face covering' not a proper N95 type mask. Of course as others have said any sort of face covering will have some prevention effect, but it is very small.
Completely agree with ALL of that [although, in reference to 'conspiracy theories' we could argue as to what constitutes as "unsubstantiated"], which on these matters, for you and I is rare!:)
The problem with substantiated conspiracy theories is that, if they existed, they'd no longer be 'conspiracy theories'!;)
But that doesn't mean that some don't contain an element of truth, or perhaps far more so.
Marco.
walpurgis
15-07-2020, 12:51
Well that same proviso also applies to those forwarding all sorts of unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.
I've got a mate who believes every single one apart from the 'flat earth' thing. He's warned me several times about Chem Trails.
Arguing the Politics is debatable, sure.
Wouldn’t argue with my Surgeon though before an operation!
Taking it down a notch,
If I had a health checkup and it wasn’t good news,
maybe get a 2nd opinion to be sure...but not a 3rd, 4th it 5th till I got one I preferred.
There IS such a thing as expertise.
Seems simple enough of an concept?
If we were asked by the Government to wear gas masks (as WW2 was going on) would anyone really refuse?
A 1% chance that wearing a mask to buy a pint of milk from the shop would save someone’s life down the line...would matter more to me than my “freedom” being threatened by wearing that mask.
Look to what’s happening in Florida, more people sharing the same airspace without masks, MASSIVE spikes in number of infections.
Facts don’t care about your feelings, and frankly we don’t have them all yet.
Some interesting information here on the development of vaccines for Covid-19, and IMO, not all good: https://www.livescience.com/first-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html?utm_source=notification
There's a lot I could say there, but I particularly don't like the sound of this:
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in April that a promising COVID-19 vaccine that prompts a strong immune response in Phase 2 trials could potentially be approved for emergency use without a full Phase 3 trial, Live Science previously reported. Phase 3 trials for vaccines typically last several years, according to the CDC, but given the pressing need, a coronavirus vaccine could potentially be granted emergency approval in less time, Fauci said. The trial process can also be sped up through combined trials, where several trial phases are run simultaneously.
Yes, first and foremost a "pressing need" to make money from sales of the vaccines, before this coronavirus virus 'dies' within 12 months [read as ceases to be a problem], as did SARS, and there's no longer any justification for vaccinating people, so we get something that's been rushed through without being properly tested!:doh:
Or perhaps more worryingly, this:
While the idea of condensed or combined trials may seem risky, "that doesn't mean they're cutting off the follow-up of these individuals," Bottazzi said. "Importantly, beyond Phase 3 there's a clear strategy and guidance [from the FDA] on post-market surveillance," which involves monitoring people who receive an approved vaccine for infections and side effects that may not appear in clinical trials, she said.
There you go... You can draw your own conclusions as to how once they're able to apply such surveillance, and monitor people accordingly, how that power will likely be (mis)used in future: to continually SPY on and CONTROL them...
Marco.
Arguing the Politics is debatable, sure.
Wouldn’t argue with my Surgeon though before an operation!
Taking it down a notch,
If I had a health checkup and it wasn’t good news,
maybe get a 2nd opinion to be sure...but not a 3rd, 4th it 5th till I got one I preferred.
There IS such a thing as expertise.
Seems simple enough of an concept?[
Yes of course, but you're still not getting the fact that a person's expertise, and the advise they give based on that, can be influenced or manipulated by many factors, as Martin ably pointed out.
At the end of the day, experts are still HUMAN beings, and so prone to making mistakes or being wrongly guided.
Marco.
trouble with govt experts and scientists, is that they work for the govt, which may not want truth told... ha, rarely want it told... so, yes you have to be careful
No, I do get all that?
There’s just a need (imo) to be careful not to conflate the actual Data with the agenda led spin put upon it.
From both sides.
Im arguing for the Data, the facts...not the spin put on it.
“But the numbers are being put out by X, Y, Z and they are corrupt!!”
Seriously, how deep down the rabbit hole does one go?
Latest from the White House is that the Administration is “ordering” hospitals not to forward their Covid data to the CDC as normal, but to forward it directly to the White House instead.
(maybe Kushner will compile a spreadsheet on his laptop, who the fuck knows)
If you can’t argue with the facts...change them.
Want a conspiracy to latch on to...there you go
And that’s the danger here.
Facts...are facts...are facts.
No, I do get all that?
There’s a need to be careful not to conflate the actual Data with the agenda led spin put upon it.
From both sides.
Im arguing for the Data, the facts...not the spin put on it.
But how do you know if a spin's been put on it, if you can't see it? Especially when the "spin" simply fits with what you WANT to believe! Whether a "spin" exists or not is subjective, based on your mindset. That's my point.
Data is obtained by collating information, but the process is still potentially open to corruption, as it depends on who's collating the data and for what purpose, and if they have an agenda. Perhaps Trump doesn't trust the CDC (as he rightly doesn't trust many things at the moment, including Fauci), and so that explains his actions?
Facts are only FACTS when they're indisputable, such as 1+1=2. Anything less than that, in terms if of being indisputable, isn't fact. It's simply information for considering.
Marco.
trouble with govt experts and scientists, is that they work for the govt, which may not want truth told... ha, rarely want it told... so, yes you have to be careful
Exactly!
What did you think about my link to the propsed vaccines?
Marco.
Exactly!
What did you think about my link to the propsed vaccines?
Marco.
not seen it.. my neck has gone again thanks to all my doing stuff:doh: just resting it
Here you go: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?68302-Johns-Hopkins-Medical-Centre-World-Coronavirus-infection-Map-by-Country&p=1205743#post1205743
Please read it, including details of the link therein, and I'd be obliged of your thoughts afterwards:)
Marco.
But how do you know if a spin's been put on it, if you can't see it? Especially when the "spin" simply fits with what you WANT to believe! Whether a "spin" exists or not is subjective, based on your mindset. That's my point.
Data is obtained by collating information, but the process is still potentially open to corruption, as it depends on who's collating the data and for what purpose, and if they have an agenda. Perhaps Trump doesn't trust the CDC (as he rightly doesn't trust many things at the moment, including Fauci), and so that explains his actions?
Facts are only FACTS when they're indisputable, such as 1+1=2. Anything less than that, in terms if of being indisputable, isn't fact. It's simply information for considering.
Marco.
My Response, not sure what else there is to say really.
Here are some facts about how stupid we all actually are...
The average adult with no chess training will beat the average five year old with no chess training 100 games out of 100 under normal conditions.
The average 1600 Elo rated chess player – a player with several years of experience – will beat that average adult 100 games out of 100.
A top “super” grandmaster will beat the Elo 600 rated player 100 games out of 100.
Analogous to ..a grandmaster is 10,000 times better than average
This distribution is pretty similar across other domains which require purely mental rather than physical skill, but it's easy to measure in chess because there's a very accurate rating system and a record of millions of games to draw on.
Here's what that means.
The top performers in an intellectual domain outperform even an experienced amateur by a similar margin to that with which an average adult would outperform an average five year old.
The average person on the street with no training or experience wouldn't even register as a challenge to a super GM, there'd be no quantifiable difference between them and an untrained five year old in how easy they are to beat.
Their chances are literally zero.
This means that people's attempts to apply “common sense” - i.e., untrained thinking – to criticise scientific or historical research or statistical analysis or a mathematical model or an economic policy is like a five year old turning up at their parent's job and insisting they know how to do it better.
They would not only be wrong, they would be unlikely to even understand the explanation of why they were wrong. And then they would cry, still failing to understand, still believing that they're right and that the whole adult world must be against them. You know, like “researchers” on Facebook.
That's where relying on "common sense" gets you. To an actual expert you look like an infant having a tantrum because the world is too complicated for you to understand.
And that, my friends, is science.
Tom Denton -
yeah but ot needs a carrier fluid etc, so to stop the fluid and....
Sorry mate, that's still not making any sense to me:scratch:
Marco.
My Response, not sure what else there is to say really.
Here are some facts about how stupid we all actually are...
The average adult with no chess training will beat the average five year old with no chess training 100 games out of 100 under normal conditions.
The average 1600 Elo rated chess player – a player with several years of experience – will beat that average adult 100 games out of 100.
A top “super” grandmaster will beat the Elo 600 rated player 100 games out of 100.
Analogous to ..a grandmaster is 10,000 times better than average
This distribution is pretty similar across other domains which require purely mental rather than physical skill, but it's easy to measure in chess because there's a very accurate rating system and a record of millions of games to draw on.
Here's what that means.
The top performers in an intellectual domain outperform even an experienced amateur by a similar margin to that with which an average adult would outperform an average five year old.
The average person on the street with no training or experience wouldn't even register as a challenge to a super GM, there'd be no quantifiable difference between them and an untrained five year old in how easy they are to beat.
Their chances are literally zero.
This means that people's attempts to apply “common sense” - i.e., untrained thinking – to criticise scientific or historical research or statistical analysis or a mathematical model or an economic policy is like a five year old turning up at their parent's job and insisting they know how to do it better.
They would not only be wrong, they would be unlikely to even understand the explanation of why they were wrong. And then they would cry, still failing to understand, still believing that they're right and that the whole adult world must be against them. You know, like “researchers” on Facebook.
That's where relying on "common sense" gets you. To an actual expert you look like an infant having a tantrum because the world is too complicated for you to understand.
And that, my friends, is science.
Tom Denton -
Not sure exactly what you're saying.... Perhaps you could condense it into a couple of straightforward sentences?
All I'd briefly say, is that what you've quoted is simply an opinion, not fact, and that this Tom Denton fella, whoever he is, is not the definitive word on anything. It's black and white lazy thinking at best [typical of many wannabe scientists].
The trouble is that too many people simply choose to rely SOLELY on the views experts, without exercising their own judgement, and that's a sure way of ending up being controlled by those with an agenda, and who use their 'professional credibility' as a vehicle to dupe others into a rigid way of thinking, and conforming to their mindset, for all sorts of reasons.
Long live the free-thinkers! :exactly:
Marco.
knickers :D i'd cuff a scientist..
If he/she was wrong tho, and this is an issue, if they are told to say political things that are wrong, but sound right then people need to stand up and say so.
We have seen Trump sacking loads of folk cause they wouldnt tell what his truth is... To an extent Boris is similar.. coz a person wouldnt verbally back Boris's buddy, they got removed etc.. when the cheif science officer was asked, Boris refused to let him speak, so we do need to regard what we are told with scepticism; not disbelieve it, but question it
If he/she was wrong tho, and this is an issue, if they are told to say political things that are wrong, but sound right then people need to stand up and say so.
Exactly....rather than simply swallowing it as gospel, like a mindless sheep. An inquisitive and enquiring mind [challenging the views of experts if necessary, using one's own judgement] is a sign of intelligence, not the opposite!
Marco.
Could I have your views now on my post about vaccines?:)
Marco.
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