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Bksabath
30-05-2021, 14:20
Well Macca yes I am hand writing and I am taking action
vengeance will not bring any one back but if you read on and stick whit it the chances that this will happen aging are maybe a tiny weenie less
OK if you ticked the yes on the “will you do the same question” above
Are you ready to escalate your actions and have all your pears partners and pets do the same?
YES/NO
It is the only way for it to work!
YES/NO
It will mean no purchases of any made in CHINA items
Are you going to put any Made in China things back on the shelves YES / NO
Tooth brushes and bolts PPE mask pet food and toys Mobile phones and birthday cards
Catch my drift? YES / NO
Are you going to ask the sale assistant in the supermarket for alternative products not from China?
I am going to give it my best shot, are you? YES/NO
One does not wish to overstress shorth attention spans
Black humour's a British thing mate, as is the ability to shrug shoulders and carry on when you know there's not a damn thing that can be done about it. The two are inextricably linked.
Handwringing and demanding vengeance isn't going to change anything or bring anyone back so what's the point?
You've just 'assumed' nothing can be done and written it off. You don't *know* for certainty that that's the case. One thing's for sure, wars have been started for FAR less..
Oh, and vengeance is an Italian thing; we specialise in it!;)
Marco.
Yes, Sandro. I do agree. From now on, if necessary, we should all do our best to boycott Chinese products - there's WAY too much of the cheap shite around anyway!
The problem you've got is all the narrowminded tightwads, with no morals, who buy EVERYTHING, first and foremost on price [cheapest is always best], and don't give a fuck where it comes from, or at what cost to the planet, or humanity, it's taken to produce....:rolleyes:
Marco.
Trouble is not buying from China is more difficult that it sounds as most stuff made anywhere has Chinese stuff in it. Having a war over it isnt going to do anything other than kill a lot of folk who had nowt to do with it.; eventually possibly killing everyone..
Trick some think is for govts across world to start making the stuff they make; mining the stuff they mine etc... that takes years and would only cause another war.. all for something we cant prove... and probably didnt happen
Bksabath
30-05-2021, 14:58
Thanks Marco just the post I was waiting for
Please do not even mention war that is the biggest money-making invention ever made and has no other purpose than for 2 parties to waste resources and life’s so that a few, a very few, can make money out of it
hit them where it hurts do not give them any.
Having taken care of China I am on a roll next victim
Or send him a few audio files like Howkwind “I do not care for anything you have to say” track
Or get somebody to do a remake of Zombie whit the word virus instead of bombs and Fauci instead of Zombie
Don’t know really what to do?
Bksabath
30-05-2021, 15:06
Any way vengeance is pointless but please do let them know that they don’t know that you know
that they just playing games whit your life
Yes Grant
I am going to work now a 72-hour week I need money to pay for un-chinses things
I will post soon on how I am stopping this for ever happening again soon
I am not sure of what you mean when you say "stuff we can not prove"
The letter about the grants is there for you black on white !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You've just 'assumed' nothing can be done and written it off. You don't *know* for certainty that that's the case.
Yes I do.
You're only basing that opinion on what you know (or think you know) about the matter, from the limited information available to you in the public domain, but you simply cannot know that *for sure* unless you work on the inside of the security departments for any of the relevant world governments, who would be taking said action, *IF* it was proven that China was in some way responsible.
And you can state differently until you're blue in the face mate, but I still won't agree, so probably best to save your time (and mine) and just agree to disagree:)
Marco.
Trouble is not buying from China is more difficult that it sounds as most stuff made anywhere has Chinese stuff in it. Having a war over it isnt going to do anything other than kill a lot of folk who had nowt to do with it.; eventually possibly killing everyone..
Trick some think is for govts across world to start making the stuff they make; mining the stuff they mine etc... that takes years and would only cause another war.. all for something we cant prove... and probably didnt happen
I fully agree on the first part, but that doesn't mean that if necessary (i.e. if it was proven beyond any reasonable doubt that China was in some way responsible for causing this pandemic) we couldn't all try to do our bit to boycott Chinese products in future. I certainly would, and also actively encourage others to follow suit!
As to the bit in bold though, I'm beginning to have my doubts. We'll see what unfolds, in that respect, in due course. I've always been a great believer that the truth will eventually always out (in some way), and rarely does that not happen.
Marco.
I am not sure of what you mean when you say "stuff we can not prove"
The letter about the grants is there for you black on white !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Could you repost [very clearly and concisely, Sandro] the proof you claim there is, in terms of the above? A single link to exactly what you're referring to, followed by a quote from such you believe acts as *indisputable proof* would be great:)
Keep it short and sweet please, and all in the same colour of text!;)
Oh and btw, I didn't say that we should go to war against China (heaven forbid, as that would be catastrophic), but rather simply saying that far more trivial things, IMO, often based upon lies, have started wars before, than causing the death of millions of innocent people by negligently (or otherwise) releasing a deadly virus into the atmosphere, *IF* indeed that were true.
Marco.
You're only basing that opinion on what you know (or think you know) about the matter, from the limited information available to you in the public domain, but you simply cannot know that *for sure* unless you work on the inside of the security departments for any of the relevant world governments, who would be taking said action, *IF* it was proven that China was in some way responsible.
And you can state differently until you're blue in the face mate, but I still won't agree, so probably best to save your time (and mine) and just agree to disagree:)
Marco.
I basing it on my knowledge of history, how the world works, and practical reality. Nothing will happen, give it a couple of years and you can come back and tell me I was wrong. Or not.
That's fine, but it doesn't *indisputably prove* what you think you know, in reference to what we were discussing:)
One of the biggest problems we have in this world is murdering, corrupt scum in high places, with WAY too much power, who think that they're 'untouchable' and so can get away with committing whatever obscenities they like, time and time again, ad infinitum.
That's a fundamental wrong that *one day* will be made right - trust me!;)
Marco.
That's fine, but it doesn't *indisputably prove* what you think you know, in reference to what we were discussing:)
.
There's nothing for me to prove and I'm not claiming to 'know' anything fact wise in terms of the origin of the virus.
I'm saying regardless of what the origin turns out to be nothing will be done about it because there's nothing that can be done about it.
Let's go straight to the worst case scenario and say that conclusive proof emerges that it was an engineered virus and that the Chinese deliberately released it on their own people and by extension the rest of the planet. What action would you take, or propose that we take, now we have that information?
Pigmy Pony
30-05-2021, 18:01
You've just 'assumed' nothing can be done and written it off. You don't *know* for certainty that that's the case. One thing's for sure, wars have been started for FAR less..
Oh, and vengeance is an Italian thing; we specialise in it!;)
Marco.
First of all I'd like to respond to post #7748: Flippancy my arse! The suggestion that myself or Martin are trivialising the situation because we have not been personally bereaved is frankly offensive, and I don't offend easily. It is as Martin says, just black humour - doesn't mean we don't care.
I can't speak for Martin, but I had the vaccination because I felt it was the right thing to do and could help save lives, and not just my own. I knew there was a risk as with anything new, but took a leap of faith. Doing shopping trips for those more vulnerable is another one. Now that is what I call doing something positive to help alleviate the problem, and more useful than railing against the governments over their many faults. Plenty of time for that later.
Onto this post: Apart from Sandro's decision to avoid buying Chinese goods (which will only halfway work imo as many products "made" elsewhere are made up of Chinese components and materials), I'm not seeing any practical ways to bring this issue to a conclusion, but as soon as you come up with one, post it on here and I will happily jump on board :)
Apologies if I have again missed the point, I've just come back from an afternoon at the pub, helping to kickstart the economy :D
There's nothing for me to prove and I'm not claiming to 'know' anything fact wise in terms of the origin of the virus.
I'm saying regardless of what the origin turns out to be nothing will be done about it because there's nothing that can be done about it.
Let's go straight to the worst case scenario and say that conclusive proof emerges that it was an engineered virus and that the Chinese deliberately released it on their own people and by extension the rest of the planet. What action would you take, or propose that we take, now we have that information?
Well for starters, how about the imposing of very strict sanctions on trading, designed to hamper their ability to earn money from sales of their products to other countries? Hit the fucks in the pocket, where it hurts most! It wouldn't be easy of course, and long and difficult road, and initially some major sacrifices would need to be made, but as they say 'no pain, no gain'.
It might just be the excuse we need to kickstart our status as a once proud engineering nation, producing some of the best products in the world, which I believe is what Trump was doing rather successfully in the States, with their homegrown stuff, before Covid happened!;)
Let me ask you then why *if* what you've just said became a reality, there would be NO repercussions, NONE whatsoever, against China? You really think that the rest of the world would just shrug their shoulders and say 'Hey-ho, it was just one of those things'?
Marco.
First of all I'd like to respond to post #7748: Flippancy my arse! The suggestion that myself or Martin are trivialising the situation because we have not been personally bereaved is frankly offensive..
Then why make your earlier jibe about 'free prawn crackers'? That was unquestionably both flippant and insensitive, and which I for one, found offensive. For starters, do you think the families of all the elderly who've died here in care homes, as a result of Covid, would find your 'black humour' amusing?
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
30-05-2021, 18:08
Trouble is not buying from China is more difficult that it sounds as most stuff made anywhere has Chinese stuff in it. Having a war over it isnt going to do anything other than kill a lot of folk who had nowt to do with it.; eventually possibly killing everyone..
Trick some think is for govts across world to start making the stuff they make; mining the stuff they mine etc... that takes years and would only cause another war.. all for something we cant prove... and probably didnt happen
Wish I'd read this post sooner. Well said Grant :)
There's nothing for me to prove and I'm not claiming to 'know' anything fact wise in terms of the origin of the virus.
I'm saying regardless of what the origin turns out to be nothing will be done about it because there's nothing that can be done about it.
And I'm saying PROVE that nothing can be done about it, as you said that 'you know', to which when prompted for *indisputable proof* to confirm your assertion, you replied that your knowledge of history acted as such, and I said it didn't, because it doesn't!;)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
30-05-2021, 18:30
Then why make your earlier jibe about 'free prawn crackers'? That was unquestionably both flippant and insensitive, and which I for one, found offensive. For starters, do you think the families of all the elderly who've died here in care homes, as a result of Covid, would find your 'black humour' amusing?
Marco.
I don't know, maybe not, it really wasn't funny anyway.
Something else it wasn't: used in the context of the sick and dying.
Something it was: used in the context of "Is China to blame and what are we going to do about it?" I don't know why I feel the need to write this post, it should be obvious.
Then why make your earlier jibe about 'free prawn crackers'? That was unquestionably both flippant and insensitive, and which I for one, found offensive. For starters, do you think the families of all the elderly who've died here in care homes, as a result of Covid, would find your 'black humour' amusing?
Marco.
wasn't aimed at them though was it? Censoring humour because some unspecified individuals may find it offensive? Slippery slope that is.
Let me ask you then why *if* what you've just said became a reality, there would be NO repercussions, NONE whatsoever, against China? You really think that the rest of the world would just shrug their shoulders and say 'Hey-ho, it was just one of those things'?
Marco.
Here are your six options as outlined by Sir Humphrey
One: do nothing.
Two: issue a statement deploring the action.
Three: lodge an official protest.
Four: cut off aid.
Five: break off diplomatic relations.
Six: declare war.
The Chinese don't care about 1-3, you can't do 4 as we don't give them any aid, five just makes life harder for everyone and six would kill even more people.
I don't know, maybe not, it really wasn't funny anyway.
Something else it wasn't: used in the context of the sick and dying.
Something it was: used in the context of "Is China to blame and what are we going to do about it?" I don't know why I feel the need to write this post, it should be obvious.
If your intent was 'obvious', I wouldn't be challenging you on it, would I? What's 'obvious' in your own head doesn't necessarily always translate as clearly to others.
Also, consider what lurkers reading may have thought about what you wrote, on such a sensitive subject, who don't know you (or your sense of humour) from Adam...;)
Marco.
wasn't aimed at them though was it? Censoring humour because some unspecified individuals may find it offensive? Slippery slope that is.
I didn't say it was aimed at them, but given the rather raw gaping wounds still open in some people, as result of losing loved ones to this virus, the remark in question was insensitive. And I'm censoring nothing (have the related posts been edited or removed?) simply making a point, which I thought needed making:)
Marco.
Here are your six options as outlined by Sir Humphrey
One: do nothing.
Two: issue a statement deploring the action.
Three: lodge an official protest.
Four: cut off aid.
Five: break off diplomatic relations.
Six: declare war.
The Chinese don't care about 1-3, you can't do 4 as we don't give them any aid, five just makes life harder for everyone and six would kill even more people.
See post 7765.
Marco.
Here are your six options as outlined by Sir Humphrey
One: do nothing.
Two: issue a statement deploring the action.
Three: lodge an official protest.
Four: cut off aid.
Five: break off diplomatic relations.
Six: declare war.
The Chinese don't care about 1-3, you can't do 4 as we don't give them any aid, five just makes life harder for everyone and six would kill even more people.
Surprisingly we do/did - it's a strange world:
https://www.theweek.co.uk/107599/how-china-bags-71m-foreign-aid-from-uk
See post 7765.
Marco.
Economic sanctions?
Aside from the fact that the whole world is reliant on a lot of what the Chinese make name one instance in history where economic sanctions worked.
Or consider that economic sanctions against Japan in 1941 forced them into going to war with the countries that were implementing the sanctions.
Economic sanctions?
Aside from the fact that the whole world is reliant on a lot of what the Chinese make name one instance in history where economic sanctions worked.
Yes, at the moment, but that could change if the will and wherewithal were there to stomach the necessary pain, for as long as it took to experience the gain, if we could successfully reignite our ability to support ourselves, by designing our own products to rival those we import from China.
However, we'd need to accept that we'd have to pay much more for some of the goods we now take for granted as being cheap (and disposable) and for a change learn to buy quality that lasts. For FAR too long we've sat back and allowed ourselves to be in this rather vulnerable position, largely subservient to China, mainly because of our insatiable desire for the 'cheap and cheerful'!:doh:
As a result, they've almost singlehandedly been responsible for creating the rather odious 'disposable society' we now live in.
In terms of your latter point, that doesn't mean if a united and concerted worldwide effort to impose economic sanctions on a country happened this time it wouldn't work - but it would take guts and determination and many sacrifices made, to see it through, which perhaps is something that hasn't happened before.
Regardless of all this though, if it was officially declared, in the way you described, that China was responsible for causing this pandemic, the unbridled resentment and hatred it would cause towards them from the rest of the world would manifest itself *somehow* - that is guaranteed. The only question is how...
If nothing else, it would certainly kill their tourism industry dead, as who in their right mind would holiday there, knowing that those running the country were murderers? More importantly, how would the Chinese people react to knowing that their country was run by murderers?? It would undoubtedly lead to mass revolts, and what would the Chinese government's response be: kill everyone who got in their way?
In any case, if China were indeed guilty, as stated, of committing one of the most heinous crimes against humanity the world has known, I'd take great pleasure in reducing them to a third-world nation, and in future needing to beg from everyone else to survive, as it would be just deserts for committing such horrendous atrocities!
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
30-05-2021, 19:33
If your intent was 'obvious', I wouldn't be challenging you on it, would I? What's 'obvious' in your head doesn't always translate well to others.
Also, consider what lurkers reading may think, on such a sensitive subject, who don't know you (or your sense of humour) from Adam...;)
Marco.
Well lets hope these lurkers also read the posts on the previous page (774) where the China-bashing started (you also joined in), then the context of my comment will be BLINDINGLY obvious :) They'd have to really, as my prawn cracker post means nothing in isolation.
Anyway this is my last word on the subject, and if you still won't accept that your taking umbrage is unwarranted, that's fine by me ;)
Pigmy Pony
30-05-2021, 19:46
Yes, at the moment, but that could change if the will and wherewithal were there to stomach the necessary pain, for as long as it took to experience the gain, if we could successfully reignite our ability to support ourselves, by designing our own products to rival those we import from China.
However, we'd need to accept that we'd have to pay much more for some of the goods we now take for granted as being cheap (and disposable) and for a change learn to buy quality that lasts. For WAY too long we've sat back and allowed ourselves to be in this rather vulnerable position, largely subservient to China, all because of our insatiable desire for the 'cheap and cheerful'!:doh:
In terms of your latter point, that doesn't mean if a united and concerted worldwide effort to impose economic sanctions this time happened it wouldn't work - but it would take guts and determination, and many sacrifices made, to see it through, which perhaps is something that hasn't happened before.
Regardless of all this though, if it was officially declared, in the way you described, that China was responsible for causing this pandemic, the unbridled resentment and hatred it would cause towards China from the rest of the world would manifest itself *somehow* - that is guaranteed. The only question is how...
If nothing else, it would certainly kill their tourism industry dead, as who in their right mind would holiday there, knowing that those running the country were murderers?
Plus, if they were indeed guilty, as stated, of committing one of the most heinous crimes against humanity the world has known, I'd take great pleasure in turning them to a third-world nation, needing to beg from everyone else to survive, as they'd sincerely deserve it!
Marco.
On the face of it sanctions may seem like a 'peaceful' alternative to military action, but I'm betting the end result will be similar. Like stepping into a lion's cage and saying "no more food for you matey! :eek:
Well lets hope these lurkers also read the posts on the previous page (774) where the China-bashing started (you also joined in), then the context of my comment will be BLINDINGLY obvious :) They'd have to really, as my prawn cracker post means nothing in isolation.
Anyway this is my last word on the subject, and if you still won't accept that your taking umbrage is unwarranted, that's fine by me ;)
All of course in your humble opinion.
In any case, I'm not 'taking umbrage', just pointing out how your remark could've been interpreted (or misinterpreted) by those who haven't read every single word you've typed in previous posts, or appreciate your often rather cryptic sense of humour. People often simply view statements in isolation without being aware of the 'history'.
Furthermore, criticism of China (if warranted) however robustly but constrictively expressed, does not equate to "bashing", so I am guilty of no such thing.
Marco.
On the face of it sanctions may seem like a 'peaceful' alternative to military action, but I'm betting the end result will be similar. Like stepping into a lion's cage and saying "no more food for you matey! :eek:
Well, Trump was doing it rather successfully in America, supporting the production of more homegrown products, and I believe their economy was booming as a result, before Covid-19 rather rudely put a stop to proceedings... The cynical, of course, could view that as being rather convenient;)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
30-05-2021, 20:10
All of course, in your humble opinion.
In any case, I'm not 'taking umbrage', just pointing out how your remark could've been interpreted (or misinterpreted) by those who haven't read every single word you've typed in previous posts, or appreciate your often rather cryptic sense of humour.
Furthermore, criticism of China (if warranted) however robustly but constrictively expressed, does not equate to "bashing", so I am guilty of no such thing.
Marco.
Oh my God, this is incorrect in so many ways I don't know where to start!
1. Yes you did take umbrage, although you didn't use that word, you just said you personally found it offensive.
2. No one needed to read every word of my previous posts, but getting context through the previous posts of others (yourself included) would help.
3. Not sure what you mean by "constrictively". You can't mean constructively, as the "You f'coffee" comment certainly wasn't that. The rest of your sentence also made no sense until I realised you were resorting to semantics in a last ditch attempt to win the argument. And failing. Sorry buddy, you can't win 'em all :ner:
Oh my God, this is incorrect in so many ways I don't know where to start!
FFS, it's only "incorrect" in your head, and pretty much everything else you've said only represents your POV, not fact, so give it up before we fall out. I'm not interested in 'winning arguments', although given what you've just written, you appear to be.
In any case, your previous post was supposed to be your last word on this subject, so this time kindly honour your promise!
Marco.
Yes, at the moment, but that could change if the will and wherewithal were there to stomach the necessary pain, for as long as it took to experience the gain, if we could successfully reignite our ability to support ourselves, by designing our own products to rival those we import from China.
However, we'd need to accept that we'd have to pay much more for some of the goods we now take for granted as being cheap (and disposable) and for a change learn to buy quality that lasts. For FAR too long we've sat back and allowed ourselves to be in this rather vulnerable position, largely subservient to China, mainly because of our insatiable desire for the 'cheap and cheerful'!:doh:
They've almost singlehandedly been responsible for creating the rather odious modern 'disposable society'.
In terms of your latter point, that doesn't mean if a united and concerted worldwide effort to impose economic sanctions happened this time it wouldn't work - but it would take guts and determination and many sacrifices made, to see it through, which perhaps is something that hasn't happened before.
Regardless of all this though, if it was officially declared, in the way you described, that China was responsible for causing this pandemic, the unbridled resentment and hatred it would cause towards China from the rest of the world would manifest itself *somehow* - that is guaranteed. The only question is how...
If nothing else, it would certainly kill their tourism industry dead, as who in their right mind would holiday there, knowing that those running the country were murderers?
Plus, if they were indeed guilty, as stated, of committing one of the most heinous crimes against humanity the world has known, I'd take great pleasure in turning them to a third-world nation, in future needing to beg from everyone else to survive, as they'd sincerely deserve it!
Marco.
Yeah slow down a bit - it was a hypothetical situation remember.? We don't know that anyone is guilty of anything yet!
And you can't blame a billion Chinese for what would have been the actions of a few people that they wouldn't even have known about let alone been able to prevent.
And most people in the world have got better things to worry about than staying angry at China. That's something only comfortable, middle class people have the time and energy to get mad about. That's like 1 percent of the world's population
Yeah slow down a bit - it was a hypothetical situation remember.? We don't know that anyone is guilty of anything yet!
No, but you posed the scenario, so I've given you my considered response!:ner:
And most people in the world have got better things to worry about than staying angry at China. That's something only comfortable, middle class people have the time and energy to get mad about. That's like 1 percent of the world's population
Don't start me on labels!;)
Marco.
You know what I mean though, people like us who've got time to chew the fat about this stuff. Not like that bird who has to go 6 mile to the well every day. That's not far off how most of the world exists. Every day's a hustle or you don't eat that night.
We don't know we're born in this country and yet we still complain about it! Makes me laugh.
You know what I mean though, people like us who've got time to chew the fat about this stuff. Not like that bird who has to go 6 mile to the well every day. That's not far off how most of the world exists. Every day's a hustle or you don't eat that night.
We don't know we're born in this country and yet we still complain about it! Makes me laugh.
Yeah I get that mate, but at the same time if your mother or father, son or daughter, sister, brother, wife, husband, or whoever, was killed as a direct result of China's actions (as described), you're going to be more than a 'little miffed', and likely hold a lifelong grudge against the authorities responsible... I know I would!
If seriously wronged, I've never been a 'sit back and take it' kind of guy.
And considering that there are many more indirect victims of this virus than simply those who've died (so we're talking multiple millions), it only takes a few of those, who may occupy positions of authority, and with the ability to wreck havoc, to seek revenge.
That's my point:)
Marco.
Yeah I get that mate, but at the same time if your mother or father, son or daughter, sister, brother, wife, husband, or whoever, was killed as a direct result of China's actions (as described), you're going to be more than a 'little miffed', and likely hold a lifelong grudge against the authorities responsible... I know I would!
If seriously wronged, I've never been a 'sit back and take it' kind of person.
And considering that there are many more indirect victims of this virus than simply those who've died (so we're talking multiple millions), it only takes a few of those, who may occupy positions of authority, and with the ability to wreck havoc, to seek revenge.
Marco.
The desire for revenge on behalf of some I am not denying. But I still don't see any practical method. I suppose you could go after specific individuals and whack them out. If that's what you're suggesting then I agree that's do-able. That shit happens all the time anyway.
Yes, that would be one way, but there are others... The point is, you don't know what people would be capable of against the perpetrators, either individually or collectively, after having their innocent loved ones ruthlessly murdered in that way.
Marco.
If you mean ordinary people forget about it. They do things like go on protest marches and demos. That's the extent of their reach. In other words no reach at all.
Did we get Brexit Referendum by going on marches? No. Rich people formed a political party and they didn't need to win any seats as long as they took enough votes of Labour and Tory that they convinced them to have a vote to settle it once and for all.
That's how you accomplish stuff, you work the system, you don't protest it.
If you mean ordinary people forget about it. They do things like go on protest marches and demos. That's the extent of their reach. In other words no reach at all.
Not so much ordinary people, who could ably be dangerously vengeful on their own, but nutters, who were nutters before having their mothers or wives, or whoever, killed by Covid (assuming the veracity of the earlier scenario you posed).
And some of those nutters could be people in positions of influence or power, and so capable of a damn sight more than simply waving banners around.
Did we get Brexit Referendum by going on marches? No. Rich people formed a political party and they didn't need to win any seats as long as they took enough votes of Labour and Tory that they convinced them to have a vote to settle it once and for all.
That's how you accomplish stuff, you work the system, you don't protest it.
I'm not going into Brexit here, but can I ask what or whom, in your opinion, creates 'the system'?
Marco.
I'm not going into Brexit here, but can I ask what or whom, in your opinion, creates 'the system'?
Marco.
I don't want to either I was just using it as a recent example.
No one individual created the system. The system evolved over a long time. But it only evolves when people game it successfully or when there is a major impact from an outside source.
Like WW2. Pretty much everything about the system got re-written after that.
Ok then, in your opinion, what or whom controls 'the system' - i.e. makes all the key decisions about what or whom most benefits from it?
And most importantly, why can't the system be successfully challenged, or re-written again, as you say happened after WW2. Plus while we're at it, what or whom re-wrote it then - basically in your opinion, WHO ultimately are the real decision makers in the world we live in?:)
Marco.
Oh, and in terms of this:
If you mean ordinary people forget about it. They do things like go on protest marches and demos. That's the extent of their reach. In other words no reach at all.
Did we get Brexit Referendum by going on marches? No. Rich people formed a political party and they didn't need to win any seats as long as they took enough votes of Labour and Tory that they convinced them to have a vote to settle it once and for all.
That's how you accomplish stuff, you work the system, you don't protest it.
You seem fairly disparaging about the ability of ordinary people to force change, as evidenced both in your first paragraph and particularly in the parts I've highlighted.
So, are you saying that only the rich can accomplish stuff, and by 'working the system'? If so, I totally disagree, and history proves it, with the sheer weight of 'people power' often successfully overthrowing various forms of dictatorship and tyranny - and thank fuck, too!
Marco
Pigmy Pony
31-05-2021, 06:11
FFS, it's only "incorrect" in your head, and pretty much everything else you've said only represents your POV, not fact, so give it up before we fall out. I'm not interested in 'winning arguments', although given what you've just written, you appear to be.
In any case, your previous post was supposed to be your last word on this subject, so this time kindly honour your promise!
Marco.
Yes I did say that didn't I? sorry about that. But now you're trying to bully me into standing down from a pathetic little difference of opinion that shouldn't have happened in the first place. And up with that I will not put.
So feel free to ban me or whatever it is that you do, because I'm off anyway. Life's too short to be wasted trying to reason with the unreasonable.
Yes I did say that didn't I? sorry about that. But now you're trying to bully me into standing down from a pathetic little difference of opinion that shouldn't have happened in the first place. And up with that I will not put.
So feel free to ban me or whatever it is that you do, because I'm off anyway. Life's too short to be wasted trying to reason with the unreasonable.
Firstly, Steve, you won't be banned, as you've done nothing to warrant such action. Arguing or disagreeing with me doesn't constitute as grounds for a ban.
Secondly, you're not being bullied. I'm entitled to moderate you if I consider that you're behaving unacceptably, just the same as Martin, Grant or anyone else here on the team would be. How else would we do our job if we couldn't warn anyone when we thought they were out of order?
Ultimately that decision is ours, so we get the last word, but that doesn't constitute as bullying.
Thirdly, last night you were clearly spoiling for a fight. We had a difference of opinion, which was fine, but you were adamant that you were right and simply wouldn't accept that I had a different (and equally legitimate) take on matters. In that respect, you've said that I'm unreasonable, but I could equally accuse you of the same.
Sometimes you need to know when to quit when you think you're ahead, or simply agree to disagree and move on.
Since you joined the forum, we've always got on well and enjoyed a great deal of banter between us, which I've enjoyed, as I'm sure you have too, and clearly we both love a good argument, but sometimes you don't know when to stop, and last night was one such occasion.
Therefore, it would be a shame to see you go over as you say "a pathetic little difference of opinion", so I apologise if I read you wrongly, but hope you're also able to see that you played a part in what happened. I also hope that you reconsider your decision to leave, as you'd be missed:)
Marco.
Bksabath
31-05-2021, 09:46
Yo just woke up
not sure jet of what up
to recap my point of view for clarity
Yes China has part of the blame even if the spread of the virus was an accident
Mainly for acting as China has been doing from forever by acting as if it was behind an in-penetrable wall
Yes they do steal ideas gogle up the Chinese Export trade mark
They call it "self reliance" and being told to be "self reliant" is just like religion for them
You are not going to change that
One thing I do not want to see is sanction been imposed whit the consequence that it will involve as you well understand
Besides in my opinion they are only partly to blame this pandemic could have been stopped at the start whit a travel ban
Bksabath
31-05-2021, 12:09
Hi Marco
I fully understand the one you want is this
Fauci's testimony in support of gain of function research | Peak Prosperity (https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/faucis-testimony-in-support-of-gain-of-function-research/)
and this
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=gain+of+function+experiments&docid=608002253495011489&mid=A66074F6E9EFD47C9CDCA66074F6E9EFD47C9
Bksabath
31-05-2021, 14:15
Who I blame for the “current situation”?
1 Fauci
He did know exactly what was happening
He is responsible for over 3 million deaths and counting
2 The media for not researching and making publicly available information about possible mitigating strategizes to the population especially in regards to the benefit of vitamin D
They broadcasted over and over again that Black People suffers more from covid because they are deprived thus spreading fear and division so that they can make more money by selling bad news
3 The British government for once again deleing response particularly on travel restriction ban and use of mask as they where simply waiting for the Americans to do the same thing
I am saying once again as historical evidence nothing else than like when the British government was instrumental on forcing the UN directive and starting and Illegal war against Iraq
All the black on white evidence is here
Official Secrets (film) - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_(film))
Katharine Gun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharine_Gun), who leaked a memo exposing an illegal spying operation by American and British intelligence services to gauge sentiment of and potentially blackmail United Nations diplomats tasked to vote (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_and_the_Iraq_War) on a resolution regarding the 2003 invasion of Iraq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq).[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_(film)#cite_note-3)
Also, they should have stopped all flights to India weeks ago and decided not to do so, knowing very well the consequences, because of the camming trade agreement for this they are third on my list
why they do this ? you have to wait for a bit and see who ends up on the board of directors of which firms. Share holders pay and gain for it Directors make the decisions
Influencing politics while on office for personal gain should be considered punishable as treason
Explain to me how it could possibly be that Tony Blair was worth over £50 M or how Mark Thathcer was worth over £20 M at the age of 24
W.H.O they did know exactly what they were facing and to slow to act
I only place a minimum amount of the blame on the Chinese government they do what they always being doing for thousands of years
Self-reliance is part of their religion you cannot change that. see Chinese Export logo
Yes, they do sell same cheap crap, not all of it is cheap or crap, but that is my fault so I will try to stop buying it
Fauci again is ultimatley responsible as he did know he was founding cheap and dangerous research
OK I get it they are also killing people off to silence them maybe and maybe they are castrating part of the Muslim population as we speak
But we were doing the same not that long ago to our best sons? would you like me to post an example of this or you try to work it out?
Clue: Just after this poor bloke was instrumental in vining WW2
First one to post the correct answer win a prize
Bksabath
31-05-2021, 15:01
Here are your six options as outlined by Sir Humphrey
One: do nothing.
Two: issue a statement deploring the action.
Three: lodge an official protest.
Four: cut off aid.
Five: break off diplomatic relations.
Six: declare war.
The Chinese don't care about 1-3, you can't do 4 as we don't give them any aid, five just makes life harder for everyone and six would kill even more people.
You must not forget number 7
Number 7 as as we have the perfect excuse and liberty to do so after Brexit to make a new legislation so that on every single product on sale whiten our border there must be printed on the label the flag of the country of origin
Not being colour blind but having to wear spectacles and lazy it would be much easier for me to put back on the shelf any thing that just as a pure example or 2 has a little red or black red and yellow flag on it
Spin on it would be to promote indiscriminate National pride
Let the people decide what to do
Clue: Just after this poor bloke was instrumental in vining WW2
First one to post the correct answer win a prize
Alan Turing?
Bksabath
31-05-2021, 15:10
Or for that mater number 8
start to teach to your children from an early age that anything made in the UK is best
This is hardly new Germany has being doing it from donkeys years and is part of the religion there
Bksabath
31-05-2021, 15:14
Alan Turing?
Spot on
Your prize
:cool:you just won a pint on me for the next time we meet
Pigmy Pony
31-05-2021, 16:04
Firstly, Steve, you won't be banned, as you've done nothing to warrant such action. Arguing or disagreeing with me doesn't constitute as grounds for a ban.
Secondly, you're not being bullied. I'm entitled to moderate you if I consider that you're behaving unacceptably, just the same as Martin, Grant or anyone else here on the team would be. How else would we do our job if we couldn't warn anyone when we thought they were out of order?
Ultimately that decision is ours, so we get the last word, but that doesn't constitute as bullying.
Thirdly, last night you were clearly spoiling for a fight. We had a difference of opinion, which was fine, but you were adamant that you were right and simply wouldn't accept that I had a different (and equally legitimate) take on matters. In that respect, you've said that I'm unreasonable, but I could equally accuse you of the same.
Sometimes you need to know when to quit when you think you're ahead, or simply agree to disagree and move on.
Since you joined the forum, we've always got on well and enjoyed a great deal of banter between us, which I've enjoyed, as I'm sure you have too, and clearly we both love a good argument, but sometimes you don't know when to stop, and last night was one such occasion.
Therefore, it would be a shame to see you go over as you say "a pathetic little difference of opinion", so I apologise if I read you wrongly, but hope you're also able to see that you played a part in what happened. I also hope that you reconsider your decision to leave, as you'd be missed:)
Marco.
Hey, I'm a lover not a fighter. I was spoiling for some love :)
I've had time to calm down now, and I miss you guys already, so I accept your apology and hope you accept mine :)
In other news, we just got back from another pub visit, for food this time, and only one pint. Waiter service, ate outside, no masks required, which was nice. Only problem being that the food was shit. Got Mrs. P out of washing up though.
Hey, I'm a lover not a fighter. I was spoiling for some love :)
I've had time to calm down now, and I miss you guys already, so I accept your apology and hope you accept mine :)
In other news, we just got back from another pub visit, for food this time, and only one pint. Waiter service, ate outside, no masks required, which was nice. Only problem being that the food was shit. Got Mrs. P out of washing up though.
Yes it's all cool, daftee, so as you were!:)
Good to see that you're pubbing it again, and enjoying it. We'll be doing the same soon!:cool:
Marco
Hatt Wankcock and Balloon-Boy finally exposed for the incompetents that they are... If you hate the Tories, have a giggle:
https://youtu.be/36blF51LPRY
:D:eyebrows:
Marco.
In terms of the claim that Covid-19 escaped from a lab, one of which 'conveniently' just happened to be in Wuhan, and that that is equally as likely an explanation as it having occurred naturally, this is the video to watch:
https://youtu.be/ilt_NcaIIRk
Watch Sen Rubio questioning Fauci and outlining a valid case for conspiracy theorists potentially having been proved correct about lab leaks, and thus should be offered an apology.
I would urge everyone to watch this, not simply in terms of outlining the above, but watching Fauci's body language when pressed on the question of 'Why did you dismiss the lab-leak theory?
For me, that's a man who looks rather uncomfortable about answering that question!
Marco.
Bksabath
01-06-2021, 07:28
Monday update - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZOoFBjc3c)
Just jump to 11:10 run time
This summarise what should have been done by all at the start
At 12:10 is where the bad news start need to follow this in the up-camming days
France closes border to UK as new India variant is bad but here flights to and from India continue purely due to the up-camming trade agreement
will they ever learn??????
Did you take your vitamin D today????
Hi Sandro,
Thanks for that, but let's give the YT links a rest for a while, as it's dominating the thread a little too much. I'll also remove some of the older stuff, if that's ok, as it's a discussion thread and I think it being bombarded with YT links may be putting folks off from that:)
Marco.
Bksabath
01-06-2021, 11:33
super cool by me
Nice one, and done!:thumbsup:
Marco.
I only place a minimum amount of the blame on the Chinese government they do what they always being doing for thousands of years.
So that is no reason to blame the Chinese? Regardless of whether the CCP were developing a biological weapon or not, their sloppy laboratory practice in this warrants criticism. As does their misleading the WHO over cause of the breakout of the virus.
Bksabath
02-06-2021, 03:55
Barry I understand your point
I was quite clear on the scoring it is my personal opinion and welcome any debate about it for now I stick to what I said because:
Grant's for Gain of function research were awarded and suspended for concerns about security and then re-instated I Blame Fauci for this
Of course the CCP can use this research to make biological weapons do you think that Fauci did not know?
Even I know that every time I send a PCB drawing it get copied and passed on to the CCP
Do you think that the Americans or Koreans or WE are not doing weapon research?
On the clips I posted the WHO did know exactly that the Chinese government was hiding information as they have always been doing the same thing, this is undeniable Historical truth
WHO is fourth on my list, they were too slow to act, maybe they should be placed higher up on the list, they get millions in founding to warn peoples of incoming pandemics?
The WHO knowing very well that the Chinese are Chinese and that Gain of function research was carried out in the Lab should have taken action sooner as they are paid for.
I do place same minimum part of the blame on the Chinese and as I posted I am taking action by suspending any purchases from China as much as I can.
I sent 10 messages yesterday and already have the replies
watch this from April 2020
Gravitas: Why is the WHO Director General toeing China's line? | Coronavirus - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1NGzmDVWxA)
First to answer get a prize
Guess who the WHO as appointed to conduct the investigation
Bksabath
02-06-2021, 04:06
CNNi: WHO expert investigated Wuhan lab. CNN speaks with him - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlUQM8Zo-Ms)
The answer is @ 2minutes 20 seconds in the clip
Yes the same person that was directing the Gain of function research founded by Fauci
Bksabath
03-06-2021, 18:43
Tucker: Fauci deserves to be under 'criminal investigation' - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp6btJhS66c)
Bksabath
03-06-2021, 18:56
PETER DASZAK GAIN-OF-THREAT EXPERIMENTS CAUSED A PANDEMIC (https://peterdaszak.com/)
Extract
In October 2014 President Obama deemed it too dangerous to conduct DURC GoF/GoT experiments in the USA, as he so wisely believed, they might cause a pandemic if one of the viruses escaped. DURC GoF/GoT experiments utilize genetic engineering to make a virus more transmittable and more deadly. So, in order to circumvent this ban, Peter Daszak, who headed a "non-profit" called EcoHealth Alliance (https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/) funneled part of his NIH / NIAID / USAID (CIA lite) / Pentagon / Fish And Wildlife / Foundation / Private Donor grant money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) (http://english.whiov.cas.cn/about_us2016/brief_introduction2016) in China where no such ban existed. Daszak's chief technician there was Dr. Shi Zheng Li, a WIV Microbiologist known as "The Bat Lady" (https://batladycovid19.com/) because of her interest in bats as vectors of disease. GoF/GoT research was approved NIH / NIAID head Dr. Anthony Fauci, who later claimed he didn't know what types of experiments were being conducted at the WIV, although in order to get grant money the recipient has to specify what the money is for.
Stryder5
03-06-2021, 21:03
What would be the worst scenario:-
By June 21st 2021 end date of restrictions pushed further into the future.
June 21st 2021 arrives, end of restrictions .........but after 4 weeks the data indicates reversion to restrictions needed.
I realise there could be other options, but let’s just consider these two.
I’ve tried to word this unloaded.
Gary
I don't see how it will be possible to "name a date" - Covid is with us, and I think it will mean that we just have to get used to doing things in different ways.
following are just my first thoughts:
No more hugging greetings at the pub for me.
I haven't bothered with "flu jabs" in the past, certainly going to continue having Covid, or any other recommended vaccinations in the future.
General population will need to be more aware of personal hygiene - I have always washed my hands thoroughly; too many people seem to have been taken aback at the idea of washing hands with soap after visiting toilet etc.
Masks seem a good idea to me - on a visit to Hong Kong a few years ago I was surprised by the number of people wearing masks; I thought that they were being overly cautious until my brother in law explained that this was the norm for people who had an infection to wear a mask - very high population density; courtesy to try not to pass on infections (also public toilets all had attendant keeping it spotless and people were sanitising hand rails on escalators in shopping malls).
Life will/has to be different
Bksabath
04-06-2021, 05:24
Work on the assumption that money and personal gain will be put before your welfare
The best thing anyone can do is by keeping the immune system at his best
Vitamin D is proven to work and now after many months studies are being carried out for ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.
Hydroxychloroquine and coronavirus: The story so far - BBC Africa - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zHjcsDpypw)
Ivermectin, Mexico, Peru, India - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJSUKDng_Ww)
For months videos have been posted on you tube and have been banned ridiculed and in general not been made widely available by the main stream media if not all together supressed
I did post this quite a while ago
MedCam Coronavirus Pandemic Update 59 Dr Seheult's Daily Regimen Vitamin D, C, Zinc, Quercetin, NAC - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfLr68fdAic)
Much suffering could have been avoided but the media toed the line
one example
When the Black Life maters broke up the by line was that people whit darker skins suffers more from covid because they are deprived, not a single time, I heard it mentioned in the Main stream media that due to the skin colour vitamin D deficiency is more common
For this the “Media” is so hi in my list of “who to blame”
Circulate alternative information, do your own search's, Med Cram is a pretty good source.
Ask question
And when election time came do take the time to vote, no matter who for, they are all the same.
IMO voting for the opposition send the message that you care about it and are not happy whit the service you have been provided
You are the one that pay their wages
I don't see how it will be possible to "name a date" - Covid is with us, and I think it will mean that we just have to get used to doing things in different ways.
following are just my first thoughts:
No more hugging greetings at the pub for me.
I haven't bothered with "flu jabs" in the past, certainly going to continue having Covid, or any other recommended vaccinations in the future.
General population will need to be more aware of personal hygiene - I have always washed my hands thoroughly; too many people seem to have been taken aback at the idea of washing hands with soap after visiting toilet etc.
Masks seem a good idea to me - on a visit to Hong Kong a few years ago I was surprised by the number of people wearing masks; I thought that they were being overly cautious until my brother in law explained that this was the norm for people who had an infection to wear a mask - very high population density; courtesy to try not to pass on infections (also public toilets all had attendant keeping it spotless and people were sanitising hand rails on escalators in shopping malls).
Life will/has to be different
Well, you're on your own there Guy, as far as I'm concerned, although I suspect some other ultra-cautious people may be joining you. I'll be ditching masks the very second they're not necessary, where currently they're required, and hugging friends and family as before, the latter as indeed I've already been doing!:)
I have no problem with face coverings, per se, as long as they're ***voluntary***. Folk can walk about with a diver's helmet on, for all I care, if it makes them happy. I'm also for increased levels of hand hygiene, and every other form of personal hygiene, as there are some filthy fucks about, seemingly averse to soap and water!!
When this is all over (or as over as I'll ever be, as Covid will never fully go away, we'll simply have to learn to live with it), life *can* be no more different than (for those who want it) simply getting a Covid jab every year (plus boosters, if necessary), alongside their flu jab.
There's no reason why anything else should be vastly different from before, if the vaccines do what they're supposed to do. There are always new variants of ANY virus, including the flu, which subsequently will generate new cases of infections, but as long as droves of people aren't hospitalised or dying, then we simply manage it appropriately, and the world functions as normally as it can from there. THAT *has* to be the future!:cool:
Marco.
Yeah well masks open you up to horrible accidents too:stalks:
https://youtu.be/makzAGTO11E?t=288
Well, you're on your own there Guy, as far as I'm concerned, although I suspect some other ultra-cautious people may be joining you. I'll be ditching masks the very second they're not necessary,
.
yes, me too, they're a pointless pain in the arse unless you spend a shedload on a proper N95 one which I've only ever seen one person wearing one.
The only purpose of the other types is to comply with the law, there's no protection at all. Like wearing a sieve on your head to keep out the rain.
Exactly! Dem's da facts, pure and simple. How anyone can like the fuckers, or think they'd be a 'good idea' going forward, beggars belief:doh:
It's pure brainwashing, designed to promote mindless compliance among the masses!
Marco.
Yeah well masks open you up to horrible accidents too:stalks:
https://youtu.be/makzAGTO11E?t=288
Lol - at least that's one comedy we share a mutual love of!:D
Marco.
Bksabath
04-06-2021, 11:44
After this I am going to take a rest
The genetic structure of SARS‐CoV‐2 does not rule out a laboratory origin (nih.gov) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7744920/)Keywords: BtCov/4991, furin cleavage site, Gain‐of‐function studies, pangolin CoV, RaTG13, receptor binding domain, SARS‐CoV‐2
Go to: (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7744920/#)
AbstractThe perfect binding ability of SARS‐CoV‐2 to human cells and the presence of the furin cleavage site, which is new for SARS‐like coronaviruses, might derive from genetic manipulation performed during evolutionary studies. By combining a bat coronavirus backbone and a receptor binding domain from pangolin coronavirus the resulting chimera
Keywords: BtCov/4991, furin cleavage site, Gain‐of‐function studies, pangolin CoV, RaTG13, receptor binding domain, SARS‐CoV‐2
Go to: (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7744920/#)
AbstractThe perfect binding ability of SARS‐CoV‐2 to human cells and the presence of the furin cleavage site, which is new for SARS‐like coronaviruses, might derive from genetic manipulation performed during evolutionary studies. By combining a bat coronavirus backbone and a receptor binding domain from pangolin coronavirus the resulting chimera
Keywords: BtCov/4991, furin cleavage site, Gain‐of‐function studies, pangolin CoV, RaTG13, receptor binding domain, SARS‐CoV‐2
Go to: (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7744920/#)
AbstractThe perfect binding ability of SARS‐CoV‐2 to human cells and the presence of the furin cleavage site, which is new for SARS‐like coronaviruses, might derive from genetic manipulation performed during evolutionary studies. By combining a bat coronavirus backbone and a receptor binding domain from pangolin coronavirus the resulting chimera
It is a long paper whit loads of scary big words abstracts would suffice
Exactly! Dem's da facts, pure and simple. How anyone can like the fuckers, or think they'd be a 'good idea' going forward, beggars belief:doh:
It's pure brainwashing, designed to promote mindless compliance among the masses!
Marco.
they dont protect the wearer all that much tbh, although they do a little, but they protect others from you a fair bit by reducing mouth spray and velocity, so that along with distancing they are a weapon. Every little helps.
Lol - at least that's one comedy we share a mutual love of!:D
Marco.
when he drops the bottle is classic... everyones first reaction is great.. Also when he wakes up in bed and she is lying next to him is priceless.
walpurgis
04-06-2021, 12:16
Facemasks do have one thing going for them apart from a bit of protection. They bugger up CCTV facial recognition, which rather appeals to my anarchic nature! :D
the furin cleavage site
I read this as 'fun cleavage site' and that got my interest. Imagine how disappointed I was etc
they dont protect the wearer all that much tbh, although they do a little, but they protect others from you a fair bit by reducing mouth spray and velocity, so that along with distancing they are a weapon. Every little helps.
That's how I feel about masks, and the point I was making about them being worn by people with colds/flu in HK - it is a matter of courtesy to others.
Yeah well masks open you up to horrible accidents too:stalks:
https://youtu.be/makzAGTO11E?t=288
I was so pissed off when i got to the end of the last series box set; superb :)
i was so pissed off when i got to the end of the last series box set; superb :)
first 5 series were great. After that the quality went down for me
they dont protect the wearer all that much tbh, although they do a little, but they protect others from you a fair bit by reducing mouth spray and velocity, so that along with distancing they are a weapon. Every little helps.
Yeah sure, but you can't spend the rest of your life running scared of Covid..
Once you've been 'double-jabbed', and have your subsequent boosters or whatever, you just have to live your life in the lap of the Gods, and so whatever happens, happens. If you're reasonably healthy, your immune system (on top of being vaccinated) should be good enough to deal with things.
Not wander around for the rest of your days with a (largely ineffectual) mask strapped to your face, *unless* you're in the very vulnerable category and somehow feel 'safer' with one on.
Marco.
i expect masks to be reduced once everyone is vaxed.. or near everyone.. Looks like kids(teens) will be getting done now as pfizer is now passed for them. At moment they are probably the biggest spreaders
That's how I feel about masks, and the point I was making about them being worn by people with colds/flu in HK - it is a matter of courtesy to others.
From that point of view I have no issues with them. Otherwise though, no.
Marco.
Covid infections are quite high again up here.. about a 1000 a day now. fortunately hospitalisations are much lower so far, and much of country is moving down to level 1. if admissions start increasing we will be back at square 1:doh:
ive got over 2 months til my second jab, so 3 months till safeish. thats sept... looking at it that way is slightly dampening..
Stryder5
04-06-2021, 16:35
I don't see how it will be possible to "name a date" - Covid is with us, and I think it will mean that we just have to get used to doing things in different ways.
following are just my first thoughts:
No more hugging greetings at the pub for me.
I haven't bothered with "flu jabs" in the past, certainly going to continue having Covid, or any other recommended vaccinations in the future.
General population will need to be more aware of personal hygiene - I have always washed my hands thoroughly; too many people seem to have been taken aback at the idea of washing hands with soap after visiting toilet etc.
Masks seem a good idea to me - on a visit to Hong Kong a few years ago I was surprised by the number of people wearing masks; I thought that they were being overly cautious until my brother in law explained that this was the norm for people who had an infection to wear a mask - very high population density; courtesy to try not to pass on infections (also public toilets all had attendant keeping it spotless and people were sanitising hand rails on escalators in shopping malls).
Life will/has to be different
Did you not know the Government has set a date?
Gary
They have but it is subject to change and does not mean all restrictions are lifted. I think Guy means a date when it's 'all over.'
Stryder5
04-06-2021, 18:19
They have but it is subject to change and does not mean all restrictions are lifted. I think Guy means a date when it's 'all over.'
It’s subject to change as the conditions laid down by the Government to ease lockdown significantly affect the actuality.
At no time did I say all restrictions may be lifted!
Your interpretation of Guy’s “it’s all over” doesn’t agree with my interpretation of his comment that Covid is with us forever, get used to it!
Gary
It’s subject to change as the conditions laid down by the Government to ease lockdown significantly affect the actuality.
At no time did I say all restrictions may be lifted!
Your interpretation of Guy’s “it’s all over” doesn’t agree with my interpretation of his comment that Covid is with us forever, get used to it!
Gary
Where did I say "it's all over" ?
Stryder5
05-06-2021, 08:09
Where did I say "it's all over" ?
You didn’t, read my post, it was Macca’s interpretation of your post.
Gary
That is ok Martin, just the use of the possessive apostrophe is confusing
Pigmy Pony
05-06-2021, 17:23
That is ok Martin, just the use of the possessive apostrophe is confusing
Look at us, speaking proper English like grown ups :)
What's a possessive apostrophe or two between friends?:)
Or as Simple Simon used to say: I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a possessive apostrophe..
Marco.
What's a possessive apostrophe or two between friends?:)
Or as Simple Simon used to say: I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a possessive apostrophe..
Marco.
Something to do with 'The Exorcist' I think.
Pigmy Pony
05-06-2021, 17:49
What's a possessive apostrophe or two between friends?:)
Or as Simple Simon used to say: I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a possessive apostrophe..
Marco.
I used to date a possessive apostrophe. She hated me having lads' nights out and put a full stop to it. She beat me so badly I ended up in a comma :(
Where did I say "it's all over" ?
The apostrophe in Guy's quote, above, is not a possessive apostrophe. It is there to denote the omission of a letter (in this case an 'i') in the contraction of 'it is' to 'it's'.
I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a possessive apostrophe..
Marco.
Actually "I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me, than a full frontal lobotomy" :lol:
The apostrophe in Guy's quote, above, is not a possessive apostrophe. It is there to denote the omission of a letter (in this case an 'i') in the contraction of 'it is' to 'it's'.
Quite right, but I was referring to this from Gary: "...........Guy’s “it’s all over.........”"
Stryder5
06-06-2021, 09:08
That is ok Martin, just the use of the possessive apostrophe is confusing
I misquoted Macca so I apologise, he actually said it’s “all over” not “it’s all over”, my adding “ Guy’s” with a grammatical mistake compounded things.
I’m sure from now on we’ll all be making sure our spelling and grammar is perfect in subsequent posts.
Gary
Filterlab
06-06-2021, 09:35
Although correctly it should have been...
It's 'all over', as it wasn't a quoted spoken phrase. Or, just as correctly...
It's all over.
Filterlab
06-06-2021, 09:39
Or even better, the rhyming slang for 'all over' is:
'Rover'. :lol:
I misquoted Macca so I apologise, he actually said it’s “all over” not “it’s all over”, my adding “ Guy’s” with a grammatical mistake compounded things.
I’m sure from now on we’ll all be making sure our spelling and grammar is perfect in subsequent posts.
Gary
Cheers, not a problem - it was just that it looked like you were attributing the statement to me :)
Aren't we all so frightfully polite?:D
Marco.
hifi_dave
06-06-2021, 16:05
:finger:
I've been wanting to use this for years.
Aren't we all so frightfully polite?:D
Marco.
I try :)
Bksabath
07-06-2021, 13:11
While brooding on the standard of the contribution on this thread and after same serious head scratching, made so much more difficult due to the convolution's required to do so while veering a tin hat, I decided that moping was for me out of character
Cast the dice? Or dwell on it?
Miss a chance to say I told you so? That would be an oddity YES?
“They’re Lying To You”: If Science CAUSED COVID - what’s next? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwAuSDQX_OY)
25- 29 yr olds to get the vaccine now...
England...
Of the 12,383 new cases as of 3 June, 464 went on to present at emergency care and 126 were admitted to hospital.
Of those, 83 were unvaccinated, 28 had one dose of vaccine and three had both doses, he says.
vaccine is working.
just booked my second one for the end of this month.
it wasn't letting under 30s book yet though.
Got to go to the cricket club for it this time. Hopefully the bar will be open.
Yeah, the second jab is where the tracking chip is inserted:D;)
Anyway, hopefully the shlep there and back is less of an arse-ache than last time!
Marco.
25- 29 yr olds to get the vaccine now...
England...
Of the 12,383 new cases as of 3 June, 464 went on to present at emergency care and 126 were admitted to hospital.
Of those, 83 were unvaccinated, 28 had one dose of vaccine and three had both doses, he says.
vaccine is working.
Yup, which is why we [as in largely the media] need to stop obsessing over cases/new infections, because as you've said the vaccine appears to be working well (hardly anyone is dying this time round), and not delay in getting the country fully reopened and back to business - and most importantly - life back to as close to normal as possible!
:exactly:
Marco.
Yeah, the second jab is where the tracking chip is inserted:D;)
Anyway, hopefully the shlep there and back is less of an arse-ache than last time!
Marco.
aye, the stick it up yir bahookie and it produces a lot of heat alas... still, sure you'll not notice;)
https://media.tenor.com/images/26eed83e359e7bcfff5702b2ee3f0b14/tenor.gif
Yeah, the second jab is where the tracking chip is inserted:D;)
Anyway, hopefully the shlep there and back is less of an arse-ache than last time!
Marco.
But on the plus side if I ever get lost the vet will be able to identify my owners.
Cricket club is a bit closer and the way there is a mostly pleasant walk down the canal. So won't be too bad.
aye, the stick it up yir bahookie and it produces a lot of heat alas... still, sure you'll not notice;)
https://media.tenor.com/images/26eed83e359e7bcfff5702b2ee3f0b14/tenor.gif
I think he's secretly enjoying that!:lol:
Might try that on the princess, when she's been extra-naughty or won't tidy her room;)
Marco.
aye, the stick it up yir bahookie and it produces a lot of heat alas... still, sure you'll not notice;)
https://media.tenor.com/images/26eed83e359e7bcfff5702b2ee3f0b14/tenor.gif
What on earth is he doing?
What on earth is he doing?
modern version of the magic sponge.. ethyl chloride gun
modern version of the magic sponge.. ethyl chloride gun
Yes, but what is it for? What has happened to the injured player?
Yes, but what is it for? What has happened to the injured player?
it numbs an area that is in pain and possibly gone into spasm. it does work, although ive only tried the old sponge version. that saves the physio sticking his hand down yir pants lol
I thought it was a steam cleaner :doh:
bit of claggy on the waggy
yes indeed :)
in my teens, I had just bought "new boots and panties" when my mum came in to my room to ask what was that lovely music I was listening to - as luck would have it just as she came in "Plaistow Patricia" started :)
And now for those who enjoy a good 'conspiracy theory', or as I prefer to call it, some thinking outside of the box:
https://fos-sa.org/2021/05/24/dr-roger-hodkinson-when-the-history-of-this-madness-is-written-reputations-will-be-slaughtered-and-there-will-be-blood-in-the-gutter/
Key quote from Dr Roger Hodkinson:
“You cannot test for fertility in a trial that lasts six months. Last time I checked, pregnancy lasts nine months. And in order to test for sequential pregnancies and the need for longer-term fertility studies, it cannot be done outside of a two-to-four years window, which is the normal time frame for a new vaccine trial.”
Quite, not to mention other possible side-effects, which may not reveal themselves in that timeframe, or indeed within the first year or so of being vaccinated for Covid...
Worth reading this article, IMHO.
The guy is no crank: https://westernmedical.ca/employees/roger-g-hodkinson/
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
08-06-2021, 15:46
And now for those who enjoy a good 'conspiracy theory', or as I prefer to call it, some thinking outside of the box:
https://fos-sa.org/2021/05/24/dr-roger-hodkinson-when-the-history-of-this-madness-is-written-reputations-will-be-slaughtered-and-there-will-be-blood-in-the-gutter/
Key quote from Dr Roger Hodkinson:
“You cannot test for fertility in a trial that lasts six months. Last time I checked, pregnancy lasts nine months. And in order to test for sequential pregnancies and the need for longer-term fertility studies, it cannot be done outside of a two-to-four years window, which is the normal time frame for a new vaccine trial.”
Quite, not to mention other possible side-effects, which may not reveal themselves in that timeframe, or indeed within the first year or so of being vaccinated for Covid...
Worth reading this article,
The guy is no crank: https://westernmedical.ca/employees/roger-g-hodkinson/
Marco.
Could be a bit of a worry for younger folk, not so much for most of us lot. I've had the snip anyway :)
Yeah, but it could be a slight worry for the future population! And *if* infertility is a genuine 'side-effect' of these vaccines, then what other 'unfortunate side-effects' might reveal themselves in due course..? There are also talks of miscarriages among some women who've been vaccinated, and which is currently being investigated.
That's the whole reason why I won't (yet) have any of the Covid vaccines, not because I think they're filled with nanochips, or anything like that, or even due to any concerns about their short-term safety, but because, IMO, the trials simply weren't carried out over a long enough period, or thorough enough, to adequately have assessed for, and thus revealed, potential problems with side-effects, in the medium to long term.
Unlike others, I don't just think about the here and now; I think of the future, which as still a relatively young (and certainly healthy) person, I should have plenty of to look forward to - and I want to live those years completely free from any concerns about what effects, IMO, a largely untried vaccine could have on my body. And I'm confident that my existing immune system will deal with Covid, should I contract it, but if not, that's a risk I'm willing to take.
However, I completely respect the decision of others to feel differently on this matter. At the end of the day, it's all about how we assess risk: you've taken the risk of being injected with (arguably) a not thoroughly enough tested new vaccine, in order hopefully to be protected against Covid, and I'm taking the risk of contracting Covid, by not being vaccinated against it, which is probably the greater risk - but each to his or her own:)
In any case, I just thought I'd bring this article to people's attention, as I believe it deserves some consideration. Because for me, yet more potentially serious side-effects of these new vaccines will come to light in the months (or years) ahead, which possibly none of the experts would have predicted, but may have been revealed if the trials for them had taken place over the correct amount of time, which is over many YEARS, not months.
Marco.
There’s currently no evidence to suggest that COVID-19 vaccines could affect male or female fertility. The Royal College of Midwives and Royal College of Gynaecologists have said there is not a plausible way in which there could be an effect.
The Association of Reproductive and Clinical Scientists and the British Fertility Society have stated similarly. They advise that you can still have a COVID-19 vaccine while having fertility treatment such as IVF.
https://www.bupa.co.uk/newsroom/ourviews/covid-affect-fertility
Reads like a rant. He's asking them to produce evidence that the vaccines are safe instead of offering proof that they aren't. Where is his evidence it causes infertility?
I think the giveaway is that he goes on to trot out the old 'It's just like the 'flu' line. He might be a retired pathologist but that doesn't mean he isn't a crackpot. Lots of Nobel Prize winners who were into some bizarre shit:
Otto Stern (Physics, 1943) — Psychokinesis and Pauli effect[21]
Ernst Boris Chain (Physiology or Medicine, 1945) — Evolution denial[22]
Wolfgang Pauli (Physics, 1945) — Pauli effect, psychokinesis and paranormal[23][24]
Hideki Yukawa (Physics, 1949) — Intuition and mysticism superior to logic and reason, anti-science and Taoist relativism[25]
Linus Pauling (Chemistry, 1954, and Peace, 1962) — Vitamin C quackery/orthomolecular medicine[26]
William Shockley (Physics, 1956) — Racialism and eugenics[27]
James Watson (Physiology or Medicine, 1962) — Promoter of racialism[28][29]
Eugene Wigner (Physics, 1963) — Quantum mysticism[citation needed]
John Eccles (Physiology or Medicine, 1963) — Quantum consciousness[30]
Julian Schwinger (Physics, 1965) — Pushed cold fusion as late as 1991.[31]
Alfred Kastler (Physics, 1966) — Paranormal[32]
Hannes Alfvén (Physics, 1970) — Plasma cosmology[33]
Ivar Giaever (Physics, 1973) — Global warming denial[34]
Brian Josephson (Physics, 1973) — Psychic and paranormal phenomena.[35] Cold fusion.[36] Water memory and homeopathy.[37][38]
Nikolaas Tinbergen (Physiology or Medicine, 1973) — Crank theories of autism[39]
Kary Mullis (Chemistry, 1993) — Generally barking mad. AIDS denial, alien abduction, Aliensdidit, astrology, astral projection, conspiracy theories, cosmic raccoons, global warming denial, ozone denial. Possibly related to his heavy use of LSD.[40][41]
Walter Gilbert (Chemistry, 1980) — AIDS denial[42]. Although there are claims he is no longer skeptical of the claim HIV causes AIDS. The source for that seems to be a message board post that no longer exists.
Richard Smalley (Chemistry, 1996) — Creationism, Intelligent Design and evolution denial[43][44]
Louis J. Ignarro (Physiology or Medicine, 1998) — Herbalife[45]
Luc Montagnier (Physiology or Medicine, 2008) — Homeopathy, water memory, autism quackery, AIDS cured by nutrition and vaccine hysteria[46][47][48]
Martin Evans (Physiology or Medicine, 2007) stem cell quackery[49]
There’s currently no evidence to suggest that COVID-19 vaccines could affect male or female fertility. The Royal College of Midwives and Royal College of Gynaecologists have said there is not a plausible way in which there could be an effect.
The Association of Reproductive and Clinical Scientists and the British Fertility Society have stated similarly. They advise that you can still have a COVID-19 vaccine while having fertility treatment such as IVF.
https://www.bupa.co.uk/newsroom/ourviews/covid-affect-fertility
Well, that's one source to consider, to support one side of the argument. Remember though, that the claim was, I quote: "VACCINES could cause “mass male infertility”. No statements of fact there, just something to consider.
However, the Dr in question goes on to say:
"There is “sufficient evidence in the literature” to show the spike protein expresses in the placenta and the testes – and could kill unborn babies in current pregnancies and permanently stop men having children."
Then cites the following and outlines his evidence, as follows:
"I’m a serious evidence-based career pathologist who has done everything in pathology at national and provincial levels and I take evidence-based science very, very seriously. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, I’m not an anti-vaxxer, I’m none of the above. But when I see certain things in the literature that could – underlined – have serious potential long-term sequelae, I think it’s my duty to stand up and blow the whistle and say ‘hey, stop the train, have you seen this? It needs to be looked at. I hope it’s wrong but show me the data’.
***The data I’m talking about is well-described in the literature, that of the significant expression of the ACE 2 receptor in both the placenta and the testes. And more importantly, in the testes it’s the cells that actually produce the spermatozoa, the precursors, called spermatogonia. Clearly there is an excess of spike protein circulating as a result of an unexpected surge in some people who get the vaccine.
And that circulation takes the spike protein everywhere, including the placenta of women who happen to be pregnant at the time, which is a one-time hit for that particular pregnancy, probably not for subsequent ones. But there is also potential for a hit on the testes, which of course is not a one-time hit, it could be a permanent hit***
In a world where we know that sperm counts have dropped 40 per cent over the last 10 or 20 years – a massive unexplained drop in sperm counts – we don’t need some additional hits on male fertility."
Note the highlighted section above. None of us here are medical experts, so simply aren't qualified to challenge his assertions, but that doesn't mean they don't have some basis in truth. And that's not going to be challenged by reading information contained in mainstream sources, such as BUPA.
Marco.
Reads like a rant. He's asking them to produce evidence that the vaccines are safe instead of offering proof that they aren't. Where is his evidence it causes infertility?
I think the giveaway is that he goes on to trot out the old 'It's just like the 'flu' line. He might be a retired pathologist but that doesn't mean he isn't a crackpot. Lots of Nobel Prize winners who were into some bizarre shit:
Otto Stern (Physics, 1943) — Psychokinesis and Pauli effect[21]
Ernst Boris Chain (Physiology or Medicine, 1945) — Evolution denial[22]
Wolfgang Pauli (Physics, 1945) — Pauli effect, psychokinesis and paranormal[23][24]
Hideki Yukawa (Physics, 1949) — Intuition and mysticism superior to logic and reason, anti-science and Taoist relativism[25]
Linus Pauling (Chemistry, 1954, and Peace, 1962) — Vitamin C quackery/orthomolecular medicine[26]
William Shockley (Physics, 1956) — Racialism and eugenics[27]
James Watson (Physiology or Medicine, 1962) — Promoter of racialism[28][29]
Eugene Wigner (Physics, 1963) — Quantum mysticism[citation needed]
John Eccles (Physiology or Medicine, 1963) — Quantum consciousness[30]
Julian Schwinger (Physics, 1965) — Pushed cold fusion as late as 1991.[31]
Alfred Kastler (Physics, 1966) — Paranormal[32]
Hannes Alfvén (Physics, 1970) — Plasma cosmology[33]
Ivar Giaever (Physics, 1973) — Global warming denial[34]
Brian Josephson (Physics, 1973) — Psychic and paranormal phenomena.[35] Cold fusion.[36] Water memory and homeopathy.[37][38]
Nikolaas Tinbergen (Physiology or Medicine, 1973) — Crank theories of autism[39]
Kary Mullis (Chemistry, 1993) — Generally barking mad. AIDS denial, alien abduction, Aliensdidit, astrology, astral projection, conspiracy theories, cosmic raccoons, global warming denial, ozone denial. Possibly related to his heavy use of LSD.[40][41]
Walter Gilbert (Chemistry, 1980) — AIDS denial[42]. Although there are claims he is no longer skeptical of the claim HIV causes AIDS. The source for that seems to be a message board post that no longer exists.
Richard Smalley (Chemistry, 1996) — Creationism, Intelligent Design and evolution denial[43][44]
Louis J. Ignarro (Physiology or Medicine, 1998) — Herbalife[45]
Luc Montagnier (Physiology or Medicine, 2008) — Homeopathy, water memory, autism quackery, AIDS cured by nutrition and vaccine hysteria[46][47][48]
Martin Evans (Physiology or Medicine, 2007) stem cell quackery[49]
Fair enough, that's your view of him, and you could be right, but equally you could be wrong. As ever with these types of things, it's simply about putting info out there for consideration, or dismissal.
The basic point I'm making is that I'm convinced that as the months and years go on, more and more side-effects of these vaccines will come to light, but which might otherwise have been discovered earlier, had they been properly tested over the normal timeframe, instead of rushed through in a panic to 'save the world'.
Marco.
walpurgis
08-06-2021, 17:27
In a world where we know that sperm counts have dropped 40 per cent over the last 10 or 20 years – a massive unexplained drop in sperm counts – we don’t need some additional hits on male fertility.
Marco.
With world overpopulation now, perhaps reduced male fertility could be a good thing.
They were suggesting years ago that the enzyme content of biological washing powder could be a cause. Not sure that's likely.
It crossed my mind that the covid vaccine could be the ideal vector for the (non-existent of course) genetic bullet that nations are strenuously stating they are not working on.
Well, that's one source to consider, to support one side of the argument. Remember though, that the claim was, I quote: "VACCINES could cause “mass male infertility”. No statements of fact there, just something to consider.
However, the Dr in question goes on to say:
"There is “sufficient evidence in the literature” to show the spike protein expresses in the placenta and the testes – and could kill unborn babies in current pregnancies and permanently stop men having children."
Then cites the following and outlines his evidence, as follows:
"I’m a serious evidence-based career pathologist who has done everything in pathology at national and provincial levels and I take evidence-based science very, very seriously. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, I’m not an anti-vaxxer, I’m none of the above. But when I see certain things in the literature that could – underlined – have serious potential long-term sequelae, I think it’s my duty to stand up and blow the whistle and say ‘hey, stop the train, have you seen this? It needs to be looked at. I hope it’s wrong but show me the data’.
***The data I’m talking about is well-described in the literature, that of the significant expression of the ACE 2 receptor in both the placenta and the testes. And more importantly, in the testes it’s the cells that actually produce the spermatozoa, the precursors, called spermatogonia. Clearly there is an excess of spike protein circulating as a result of an unexpected surge in some people who get the vaccine.
And that circulation takes the spike protein everywhere, including the placenta of women who happen to be pregnant at the time, which is a one-time hit for that particular pregnancy, probably not for subsequent ones. But there is also potential for a hit on the testes, which of course is not a one-time hit, it could be a permanent hit***
In a world where we know that sperm counts have dropped 40 per cent over the last 10 or 20 years – a massive unexplained drop in sperm counts – we don’t need some additional hits on male fertility."
Note the highlighted section above. None of us here are medical experts, so simply aren't qualified to challenge his assertions, but that doesn't mean they don't have some basis in truth. And that's not going to be challenged by reading information contained in mainstream sources, such as BUPA.
Marco.
yeah but i could claim catching covid could cause your balls to shrivel up in 2 years time... doesnt mean its true. a lot of so called health professionals out there who are pretty mad. it goes with the territory of being intelligent:D They used to say custard caused cancer etc
You get some interesting results if you google this Hodkinson character.
For instance he identified himself as the former chairman of the Royal College of Physicians of Canada Examination Committee in Pathology, they later said he never was.
With world overpopulation now, perhaps reduced male fertility could be a good thing.
Yes, in some areas of the world, undoubtedly, but only if it occurs naturally, NOT if people are being deliberately 'poisoned'! If not, where does it all end?
It crossed my mind that the covid vaccine could be the ideal vector for the (non-existent of course) genetic bullet that nations are strenuously stating they are not working on.
Indeed, so plausible then? If there's any truth in that at all, and that's what these vaccines are about, then it's an outrageous crime against humanity. As far as I'm concerned, the ONLY person who gets to play God, is GOD!!
I know you're an atheist, but you get my point.
Also, the more I look into what caused this virus, the more I'm convinced it originated from a lab leak, at one of these 'gain-of-function' facilities - and in time the truth WILL out, as to who or what was to blame.
Marco.
yeah but i could claim catching covid could cause your balls to shrivel up in 2 years time... doesnt mean its true. a lot of so called health professionals out there who are pretty mad. it goes with the territory of being intelligent:D They used to say custard caused cancer etc
Sure, but equally there could be something in what he's saying. Pooh-pooh it, by all means, but can you say, hand on heart, that you don't intrinsically just want to believe whatever makes you feel best or safest, and in turn bury any notions of the opposite that are simply too horrible to contemplate?;)
Marco.
Sure, but equally there could be something in what he's saying. Pooh-pooh it, by all means, but can you say, hand on heart, that you don't intrinsically just want to believe whatever makes you feel best or safest, and in turn bury any notions of the opposite that are simply too horrible to contemplate?;)
Marco.In this country I'm inclined to believe the medical authorities over a guy on YouTube etc.
I'm not saying there could not be any future reactions but I'm happy that the bma etc will step in if there is anything.
This isn't China. You can't keep that type of secret here.
That's my view. Obviously tho nothing is gained medically without an element of risk. Sane as taking painkillers etc.
As the folk said, there is no logic to that claim
walpurgis
08-06-2021, 17:53
Also, the more I look into what caused this virus, the more I'm convinced it originated from a lab leak, at one of these 'gain-of-function' facilities - and in time the truth WILL out, as to who was to blame for that.
Marco.
That's a convenient thing for many to believe, could be true too. But I wondered who might gain from a hidden agenda?
Not the Chinese or America, they do monstrous amounts of trade with each other. Nor us and the EU, as the same applies in relation to China.
That really only leaves Russia and that's not as daft as it may sound. The Russians are going to lose huge amounts of money as electric cars and other advanced battery power uses grow, as they rely heavily on oil exports, which will continue to decline. And they are totally unscrupulous and ruthless and developing and releasing nasty little bugs and toxins into the world is one of their specialities (apparently).
It would have been easy for their agents to unleash something in Wuhan and watch as the finger of suspicion gets pointed in all the wrong directions.
Firebottle
08-06-2021, 17:54
In a world where we know that sperm counts have dropped 40 per cent over the last 10 or 20 years – a massive unexplained drop in sperm counts – we don’t need some additional hits on male fertility."
Marco.
That's pretty obvious, down to all the hormones that farming stock are injected with, plus all the estrogen in the drinking water from widespread use of the pill.
IMO
In this country I'm inclined to believe the medical authorities over a guy on YouTube etc.
I'm not saying there could not be any future reactions but I'm happy that the bma etc will step in if there is anything.
This isn't China. You can't keep that type of secret here.
That's my view. Obviously tho nothing is gained medically without an element of risk. Sane as taking painkillers etc.
As the folk said, there is no logic to that claim
Well, the latter is simply in your humble opinion and theirs. On the surface, the logic seems plausible to me. Anyway, we'll see how the future unfolds.
Fundamentally, I still don't believe that these new vaccines were tested as thoroughly in the trials as they could've been, over the more extended time period normally allocated for such, where longer term side-effects would've been readily identified and either fixed or rightly brought to the attention of those choosing to be vaccinated, BEFORE being jabbed, and that some will sadly live to regret it (especially those who likely would've been able to survive this virus naturally), LONG after Covid 19 has ceased to be any real threat to human lives.
Marco,
That's pretty obvious, down to all the hormones that farming stock are injected with, plus all the estrogen in the drinking water from widespread use of the pill.
IMO
Remember you're not quoting me (I didn't state what was attached to my name in your post), but rather what I was quoting from someone else;)
And yes, I know all about what you're saying. That doesn't mean though that they couldn't use vaccines for Covid to help speed up the process.
Marco.
That's a convenient thing for many to believe, could be true too. But I wondered who might gain from a hidden agenda?
Not the Chinese or America, they do monstrous amounts of trade with each other. Nor us and the EU, as the same applies in relation to China.
That really only leaves Russia and that's not as daft as it may sound. The Russians are going to lose huge amounts of money as electric cars and other advanced battery power uses grow, as they rely heavily on oil exports, which will continue to decline. And they are totally unscrupulous and ruthless and developing and releasing nasty little bugs and toxins into the world is one of their specialities (apparently).
It would have been easy for their agents to unleash something in Wuhan and watch as the finger of suspicion gets pointed in all the wrong directions.
An interesting theory, and possibly one deserving of further investigation. Plus of course, not long before Covid happened, there was the Novichok poisoning fiasco in Salisbury. In any case, I'm now calling bullshit on this thing having 'naturally occurred'.
*Someone* was responsible, and in due course, they will made made to pay royally for their heinous crimes. As I've said before, I'd vote for live hanging on TV, so that the families of all the innocent people around the world who've died from this virus can look him/her or them in the eye, just before their neck(s) snap, and wish that they rot in hell.
Marco.
Based on the history of vaccinations it's highly unlikely that there would be any long term side effects. Not certain but then very little is certain.
Anyone know of any vaccine, ever, for anything that had long terms side effects? I can't think of any and I've searched and can't find any.
Then why didn't we hear about blood clots sooner? Or did they know but didn't say? And if so, what else might they know about side-effects, short or long tern, but not want to tell us? Also, what *if* these vaccines indeed have an adverse effect on male fertility - how would it be proved? If true though, it would certainly be another side-effect!
I accept that blood clotting only occurred in a tiny percentage of people vaccinated, but some died because of it, and that could've been avoided if the vaccines had been tested more thoroughly among a wider sample base, or over a longer period of time, before releasing them for use to the whole of the world's population.
Marco.
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 04:59
BTW I read somewhere that China announced a relaxation on the 2 Children Rule
Please join me in whishing them many Prosperous (as in fat) and very tall Daughters:D
Those are quite expensive to marry and the most likely to be dumped on the street kerb
I agree 100 % the vaccine take a ridicule shorth time to be Approved
On the 26 January 2020 Fauci told the world “We will have a vaccine ready for phase 1 medical trials in 3 months “
Phase 1 is trials whit a small number of human subjects
They already know what was camming and already had a vaccine ready!
I already have posted this earlier and the last Russel Brand video make a perfect case for the tin hat theory that they put money before your well being
IMO, they have no interest in reducing male fertility there is no money to be made out of it.
Would take it whit a large pinch of salt bad news sell more news papers.
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 05:30
If you choose not to get the vaccine you can still protect yourself and others from the Fauci virus
Gogle up Vitamin D Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine
Off Topic The Government Is Selling Your Private Data - here’s how to STOP THEM!! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlEkBHqNTx4)
To opt out
Make your choice about sharing data from your health records - NHS (www.nhs.uk (https://www.nhs.uk/your-nhs-data-matters/manage-your-choice/))
And you need to send a letter to your GP
NHS Digital dissent form (medconfidential.org) (https://medconfidential.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/nhsd-both-postal-form.pdf)
Then why didn't we hear about blood clots sooner? Or did they know but didn't say? And if so, what else might they know about side-effects, short or long tern, but not want to tell us? Also, what *if* these vaccines indeed have an adverse effect on male fertility - how would it be proved? If true though, it would certainly be another side-effect!
I accept that blood clotting only occurred in a tiny percentage of people vaccinated, but some died because of it, and that could've been avoided if the vaccines had been tested more thoroughly among a wider sample base, or over a longer period of time, before releasing them for use to the whole of the world's population.
Marco.
people die of blood clotting all the time, as far as I am aware there isn't yet an established link between the AZ vaccine and blood clotting, correlation isn't causation.
And the fertility thing is just a shot in the dark. He could just as well have said it reduces IQ, or hand-eye coordination. If he had any evidence he would have presented it. Seems pretty obvious to me he has some agenda of his own.
BTW I read somewhere that China announced a relaxation on the 2 Children Rule
Please join me in whishing them many Prosperous (as in fat) and very tall Daughters:D
Those are quite expensive to marry and the most likely to be dumped on the street kerb
I agree 100 % the vaccine take a ridicule shorth time to be Approved
On the 26 January 2020 Fauci told the world “We will have a vaccine ready for phase 1 medical trials in 3 months “
Phase 1 is trials whit a small number of human subjects
They already know what was camming and already had a vaccine ready!
I already have posted this earlier and the last Russel Brand video make a perfect case for the tin hat theory that they put money before your well being
.
They were able to do it so quickly because unlimited amounts of money and resources were thrown at it.
I've liked Russell Brand since I saw his excellent documentary about Jack Karouac, but he does talk al lot of bollocks about politics and society.
of course drug companies put money before our well-being, drug companies are the same as any other company, their sole purpose for existing is to make money. The flip side to that is they develop products that save lives and alleviate suffering. You can't have the latter without the former.
people die of blood clotting all the time, as far as I am aware there isn't yet an established link between the AZ vaccine and blood clotting, correlation isn't causation.
And the fertility thing is just a shot in the dark. He could just as well have said it reduces IQ, or hand-eye coordination. If he had any evidence he would have presented it. Seems pretty obvious to me he has some agenda of his own.
in fact there is a much higher incidence of blood clotting if you catch covid. Also on testing, they used a faster but still as safe system of testing by running the tests at same time. all tests were still passed.
As for hydroxychloroquine, no evidence of it being of use has been found.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(20)30390-8/fulltext
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 07:32
They were able to do it so quickly because unlimited amounts of money and resources were thrown at it.
I've liked Russell Brand since I saw his excellent documentary about Jack Karouac, but he does talk al lot of bollocks about politics and society.
of course drug companies put money before our well-being, drug companies are the same as any other company, their sole purpose for existing is to make money. The flip side to that is they develop products that save lives and alleviate suffering. You can't have the latter without the former.
You are definitive in your opinion
Would you consider the time it takes to?
Isolate the virus and study how it infects the host
Grow it in the lab and test that you have the same virus
Do trials and test it on humanised mice’s
Study the result and then manipulate the virus so to obtain a vaccine or use the recovered mice to develop antibodies and use those
Scale up the trials to repeat the experiments results till you get mice’s that when infected whit the virus will recover
Do the same test on something better EG monkeys
Once you are sure that it may work and is not lethal you start phase 1 trials
Yes, loads of money that is easy what about time?
Again, Fauci sez we have a vaccine ready to start phase 1 in 3 months from the 26th of January 2020
At the time he was still telling that face masks did not work
About Russel brand yes agree 100% there are loads of alternative clips to watch maybe not as entertaining and the story is the same
Pharmaceutical companies also supress research and spread miss information about the effect off inexpensive readily available drugs and vitamins because they can not make money out of those
walpurgis
09-06-2021, 07:45
I can't bear Brand.
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 07:48
29506
Grant I am Quite happy that in your ignorance you came up whit the Lancet
That is a very good example clearly you have not been looking at the links I have been posting
Coronavirus: Debunking The Hydroxychloroquine 'Controversy' (Dr. Chris Martenson) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLSYRqcg0wo)
Covid-19: Vindication! HCQ+ & Ivermectin Work! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1plkwhi5KUE)
There are hundred's more
I find questionable the motivations to many of you replies to my posts
people die of blood clotting all the time, as far as I am aware there isn't yet an established link between the AZ vaccine and blood clotting, correlation isn't causation.
Well, it's clearly a concern, otherwise the Government wouldn't have issued this document (updated on 21st May, which is key, as it shows that it's NEW information): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-and-blood-clotting/covid-19-vaccination-and-blood-clotting
Just because there may not yet be an established link, doesn't mean that there isn't one!
Yes, people die of blood clotting all the time, but do you remember any advance warning being given by the government about the AZ vaccine's potential for causing blood clots, BEFORE it was rolled out to the population? I don't.
It was something that was discovered AFTERWARDS, once it had been administered to a number of people, who then developed those symptoms, post-vaccination. For me, that proves the vaccine wasn't properly tested, a) for long enough, and b) among a wide enough range of test subjects.
Otherwise, the vaccine's potential for causing blood clots would've been revealed during the trial period (and subsequently stated as being a possible side-effect) - if indeed that trial period had been conducted over the timespan normally necessary for vaccines to be approved, instead of it being rushed through in 6 months.
And the fertility thing is just a shot in the dark. He could just as well have said it reduces IQ, or hand-eye coordination. If he had any evidence he would have presented it. Seems pretty obvious to me he has some agenda of his own.
Perhaps he has, but then tell me anyone who doesn't? It also doesn't mean that he isn't right. Governments certainly have agendas, and so do pharma companies, so I guess it's a case of choosing the agenda that best fits with what you believe is the truth;)
Marco.
29506
Grant I am Quite happy that in your ignorance you came up whit the Lancet
That is a very good example clearly you have not been looking at the links I have been posting
Coronavirus: Debunking The Hydroxychloroquine 'Controversy' (Dr. Chris Martenson) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLSYRqcg0wo)
Covid-19: Vindication! HCQ+ & Ivermectin Work! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1plkwhi5KUE)
There are hundred's more
I find questionable the motivations to many of you replies to my posts
i find this post a disgrace.
Well, it's clearly a concern, otherwise the Government wouldn't have issued this document (updated on 21st May, which is key, as it shows that it's NEW information): https://www.gov.uk/government/public...blood-clotting
Just because there may not yet be an established link, doesn't mean that there isn't one!
Yes, people die of blood clotting all the time, but do you remember any advance warning being given by the government about the AZ vaccine's potential for causing blood clots, BEFORE it was rolled out to the population? I don't.
It was something that was discovered AFTERWARDS, once it had been administered to a number of people, who then developed those symptoms, post-vaccination. For me, that proves the vaccine wasn't properly tested, a) for long enough, and b) among a wide enough range of test subjects.
Otherwise, the vaccine's potential for causing blood clots would've been revealed during the trial period (and subsequently stated as being a possible side-effect) - if indeed that trial period had been conducted over the timespan normally necessary for vaccines to be approved, instead of it being rushed through in 6 months.
Perhaps he has, but then tell me anyone who doesn't? It also doesn't mean that he isn't right. Governments certainly have agendas, and so do pharma companies, so I guess it's a case of choosing the agenda that best fits with what you believe is the truth;)
Marco.
The document you linked to makes it clear that the clotting thing is still being studied. It does not say that a link is demonstrated. It also points out that there are only 10 cases per million doses of vaccine. How long and how many people would be required in a clinical trial for that to show up? Answer - hundreds of thousands and a very long trial period.
Once again it is not a question of belief it is a question of probabilities. I am simply presenting rational alternatives to some of the wilder theories being promulgated on this thread.
Also I think some are confusing a vaccine with a drug. A vaccine is not a drug and development and trials for a vaccine differ substantially from development and trial for a drug.
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 08:13
Gravitas: Was Lancet study on Hydroxychloroquine fabricated? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH-KIdokN_k)
Would you like a few hundred more I can keep up whit this all day
Grant, you find my post a disgrace
Cool, I could not care less you are perfectly in title to have your opinion.
What I care for is that 1000’s of deaths could have been avoided
Hydroxychloroquine has been around for 30 years to cure malaria and sold many million doses
My post on this was in regards to People not willing to risk taking the vaccine
Hydroxychloroquine can help
A 12-tablet pack for sale for a few pounds would help for a good 6 months
The document you linked to makes it clear that the clotting thing is still being studied. It does not say that a link is demonstrated.
I didn't say it did. I said it was a cause for concern; clearly for some it is, and rightly so. Therefore, let's see what the study reveals in due course.
It also points out that there are only 10 cases per million doses of vaccine. How long and how many people would be required in a clinical trial for that to show up? Answer - hundreds of thousands and a very long trial period.
Yes, perhaps the trial period (decades or more) normally required for new vaccines to be officially approved?;)
THAT is my point, so please answer this: how do you know that the clotting issue wouldn't have shown up, if the clinical trials had run for the length of time that they normally do before a new vaccine is approved?
You have to be as *thorough* as possible when testing these things, so the procedure takes as long as it takes, as you can be damn sure that if there are any problems, they will show up when you roll out the vaccine to millions of new 'guinea pigs'!
The fact is, the vaccines for Covid were 'fast-tracked', because we had a pandemic, but that doesn't mean that they had been tested as thoroughly as they would've been under normal circumstances, and quite simply that can lead to problems.
Also I think some are confusing a vaccine with a drug. A vaccine is not a drug and development and trials for a vaccine differ substantially from development and trial for a drug.
In what way? The normal required period for testing, in order for a new vaccine to be approved can often run to over a decade. This time, the first one for Covid was approved in 6 months. Those are facts, so what's being confused?
Marco.
Gravitas: Was Lancet study on Hydroxychloroquine fabricated? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH-KIdokN_k)
Would you like a few hundred more I can keep up whit this all day
Please don't!!;)
Marco.
i find this post a disgrace.
In what way, mate? You've refuted his claims, which is fine, and he's subsequently provided evidence he believes supports his views, so what's the problem?:)
Marco.
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 08:41
Tanks Marco
I rest my case
Tanks Marco
I rest my case
I'm not saying that Grant was wrong to consider your post as a "disgrace", but rather it doesn't read that way to me. In that respect, he needs to say why he found it so and cite the appropriate evidence for such.
Marco.
I have no problem with either Sandro or Grant, but I did think the "....in your ignorance...." unnecessary and insulting.
no intention to stir - please delete this post if it seems that way.
walpurgis
09-06-2021, 09:15
I have no problem with either Sandro or Grant, but I did think the "....in your ignorance...." unnecessary and insulting.
no intention to stir - please delete this post if it seems that way.
I agree.
my last post on this... hydroxychloroquine is potentially dangerous if misused.
https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/hydroxychloroquine-effective-covid-19-3536024/#
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/hydroxychloroquine-donald-trump-what-malaria-drug-dangerous-coronavirus-side-effects-explained-429144
advising people to buy it is wrong.
as for the above post, and as guy says ..
Grant I am Quite happy that in your ignorance you came up whit the Lancet
I find questionable the motivations to many of you replies to my posts
Dr. Chris Martenson has himself been debunked and he is not a medical dr as such , but a is an economic researcher and futurist specializing in energy and resource depletion, and co-founder of PeakProsperity.com.
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 09:29
Whit a PHD in pathology
I am not going to post any further links nor lower myself and further replies to Grant's
as said before I rest my case end off
Have a nice day
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 09:31
Is there a way to place people one dislike on the ignore list on this forum ?
:D
I have no problem with either Sandro or Grant, but I did think the "....in your ignorance...." unnecessary and insulting.
no intention to stir - please delete this post if it seems that way.
Yes, but I also missed this, which is arguably worse:
I find questionable the motivations to many of you replies to my posts
Sandro, firstly it's impolite to imply that someone is 'ignorant' of certain facts, simply because they disagree with what you're saying. Therefore, I'd avoid using that word in future. You can make the same point just as successfully in other ways.
Secondly, and more importantly, in terms of what I've quoted above. It's unacceptable to imply that someone has 'questionable motivations', just because you disagree with their opinion or stance in this debate. Doing that doesn't help your argument and only causes friction.
Clearly, Grant and you have very different opinions on this matter, and I suspect also quite different personalities, so as you've alluded to in your last post, I suggest you ignore each other from now on, or simply agree to disagree and move on.
Marco.
Well, it's clearly a concern, otherwise the Government wouldn't have issued this document (updated on 21st May, which is key, as it shows that it's NEW information): https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-and-blood-clotting/covid-19-vaccination-and-blood-clotting
Just because there may not yet be an established link, doesn't mean that there isn't one!
Yes, people die of blood clotting all the time, but do you remember any advance warning being given by the government about the AZ vaccine's potential for causing blood clots, BEFORE it was rolled out to the population? I don't.
It was something that was discovered AFTERWARDS, once it had been administered to a number of people, who then developed those symptoms, post-vaccination. For me, that proves the vaccine wasn't properly tested, a) for long enough, and b) among a wide enough range of test subjects.
Otherwise, the vaccine's potential for causing blood clots would've been revealed during the trial period (and subsequently stated as being a possible side-effect) - if indeed that trial period had been conducted over the timespan normally necessary for vaccines to be approved, instead of it being rushed through in 6 months.
Perhaps he has, but then tell me anyone who doesn't? It also doesn't mean that he isn't right. Governments certainly have agendas, and so do pharma companies, so I guess it's a case of choosing the agenda that best fits with what you believe is the truth;)
Marco.
I think you are confusing vaccine development and trial with drug development and trial. New vaccines for infulenza are developed every year to respond to the different strains that appear every year.
Also with flu vaccines there are very remote possibilities of serious side effects ( 1 in ten thousand). This does not stop flu vaccines being administered since the benefit far outweighs the risk.
It's not a question of belief but of probabilities. Declining to have the Covid vaccine, or a flu vaccine, due to concerns over side effects is to bet heavily against the odds. if you have the vaccine there's a very low chance of side effects. If you don't there's a much higher chance, orders of magnitude higher, of contracting the virus and suffering serious effects or dying.
it's like deciding not to bet on Liverpool to win the 2022 premiership because you don't want to lose the money if they fail to win it, but then going on to bet the same amount of money on West Ham to win it instead.
Bksabath
09-06-2021, 11:27
:cool:
I think you are confusing vaccine development and trial with drug development and trial.
Nope, I'm not confusing anything. It's widely accepted [see example in link below] that the timescale for new vaccines to be developed, approved and declared as safe, is normally several years, not 6 months, in the case of those for Covid - and that happened because, due to the pandemic, they were 'fast-tracked'.
The use of that language alone indicates that said vaccines were pushed through for general use MUCH faster than normally.
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-29/covid-how-long-does-it-take-for-vaccines-to-be-approved-for-use
Key quote: "What is the usual process for developing a vaccine?"
"Traditionally, vaccine development takes several years... [etc, etc]".
Therefore, I'm clearly taking about VACCINE DEVELOPMENT, not drug development and trial.
My argument is that, because of Covid vaccines being 'fast-tracked', they weren't tested over a long enough period of time, or on enough different types of people, as would've normally been the case, and that that could lead to problems.
That's why *possible, not yet proven* side-effects linked to those vaccines, such as blood clots, weren't discovered during the trials, thus identified by the government as being a possible cause for concern, BEFORE the roll-out to the population took place, *and it [the blood-clotting] was only discovered later, once a broader section of many more people had been subjected to the vaccine than had taken place during the trials*. Note my emphasis denoting the key point.
Now *if* once the study into that is completed, and a link between blood clots and the AZ vaccine is proven, then what other possible side-effects may have been missed during the trials of all these 'fast-tracked' vaccines, which haven't shown up yet, but may do in the fullness of time? The reality is, no-one knows the answer to that for sure, and in terms of validating the link to blood clotting with the AZ vaccine, we'll simply have to wait for the results of the study.
That is one of the main reasons why I haven't accepted any vaccine yet, as I simply don't believe that any of them are as safe as claimed. The fact is, we'll only really know how safe they are *for sure* once YEARS, not mere months, have passed and no further side-effects (proven as being linked to the vaccine or otherwise) have been reported among those vaccinated.
It's not a question of belief but of probabilities. Declining to have the Covid vaccine, or a flu vaccine, due to concerns over side effects is to bet heavily against the odds. if you have the vaccine there's a very low chance of side effects. If you don't there's a much higher chance, orders of magnitude higher, of contracting the virus and suffering serious effects or dying.
it's like deciding not to bet on Liverpool to win the 2022 premiership because you don't want to lose the money if they fail to win it, but then going on to bet the same amount of money on West Ham to win it instead.
You're missing the point, mate. I'm not denying any of that. What I was referring to was your statement that the doctor, who's claims about infertility I'd linked to on YT, had an agenda. I simply said 'Who doesn't'? ALL the authorities in relation to this pandemic have some sort of an agenda, and no-one wants to admit any errors of judgement.
My point was that that being the case, sources of information you believe support your argument (thus represent what you believe is the truth) aren't *automatically* any more free of agendas, than any sources others and I chose to support ours, so you simply choose whatever agenda best fits with what you believe is the truth.
In that respect, there is no 'right or wrong' here, simply legitimate differences of opinion:)
Marco
Pierre De Grenoble
09-06-2021, 17:05
i think his mother should have swallowed
Pierre De Grenoble
09-06-2021, 17:06
thats mr Brands....
i think his mother should have swallowed
Lol - who are you referring to, Steve?
Marco.
thats mr Brands....
Who's Mr Brands?:hmm:
Marco.
Presumably Russell Brand's father. Once again the misuse (or lack) of a possessive apostrophe has confused matters.
I just wish folk would spit out what they mean, rather than talking in riddles, and stop using bloody phones to post with, as it doesn't encourage the use of extended sentences!:ner:;)
Marco.
Pierre De Grenoble
09-06-2021, 20:35
no phone involved.. just trying to use one finger on the keyboard whilst eating my dinner.... :doh::eyebrows:
Lol - that's an epic fail, then:D
Anyway, it's the thought that counts!:lol:
Marco.
Any thoughts, Martin, on post 7919, or are we just leaving it as agreeing to disagree?:)
Marco.
Any thoughts, Martin, on post 7919, or are we just leaving it as agreeing to disagree?:)
Marco.
had something on last night and of course been working this morning.
Not sure what we are disagreeing on? Are you saying that there's a higher chance of getting a bad side effect from the vaccine than there is of getting a bad side effect from contracting the virus?
If so I have to disagree.
Please note that I do not decide which option I prefer then look for evidence to support it. As with anything I review the evidence then decide which option to go for.
I was in two minds about getting vaccinated but after reading up I think it is pretty clearly the less risky of the two options. This view appears to be supported by all qualified medical personnel except for those who are clearly cranks or have something to sell (usually Americans).
Not sure what we are disagreeing on? Are you saying that there's a higher chance of getting a bad side effect from the vaccine than there is of getting a bad side effect from contracting the virus?
Nope, not at all. I'm saying that, in my view, none of the vaccines for Covid that were 'fast-tracked' for use in six months (instead of the usual several years required for such) were tested among a numerous enough, or a wide enough range of subjects (different ages, ethnicities, those with different levels of health, etc), during the trials, in order to both thoroughly and successfully identify any side-effects, and which is why the (potential, although not yet proven) issue with blood clotting only appeared after the vaccine had been administered to the population, and thus this time a big enough range of different people, in order for such to show up.
And that if the new vaccines had been tested in trials for longer, and among a much bigger range of different people, for the several years that are normally required for new vaccines to be passed for use, that the blood clotting (if there is a direct link to it and the AZ vaccine) would've been revealed accordingly, thus known about before it was administered to the population.
In essence I'm saying that that, and the rushing through of these new vaccines has arguably compromised their safety, perhaps not in the short-term, but in the medium to long term, and so I wouldn't be surprised if more side effects were revealed, among those vaccinated, in the months or years to come - although whether we'll hear about them in the mainstream media is debatable!;)
With respect mate, this is about the third time now I've said this, and I can't really be any clearer, so I trust that I won't have to repeat myself again...?
Therefore, a) do you now understand my POV, and b) do you agree or disagree? I suspect the latter, which is fine, and as for now I won't be changing my stance, we can simply 'agree to disagree' and move on:)
Please note that I do not decide which option I prefer then look for evidence to support it. As with anything I review the evidence then decide which option to go for.
I was in two minds about getting vaccinated but after reading up I think it is pretty clearly the less risky of the two options. This view appears to be supported by all qualified medical personnel except for those who are clearly cranks or have something to sell (usually Americans).
That's fine. I largely do the same, but the difference is that if there's still a nagging doubt at the back of my mind, and my gut feeling is that something's not quite right, despite 'evidence' pointing to the opposite, then I'll generally still go with my gut feeling, and simply search harder for any credible (to me) evidence that I believe supports or confirms my suspicions:cool:
Marco.
Stryder5
10-06-2021, 14:27
Does anyone follow this procedure for evaluation, or like me do you have a life?
Go with logic and gut feeling!
https://www.library.georgetown.edu/tutorials/research-guides/evaluating-internet-content?fbclid=IwAR3F0ebYodwOAQysqh5rbzw9VIlC6vFFK-6WDH3bwVgO5aoX1s335TlU3k0
Gary
Does anyone follow this procedure for evaluation, or like me do you have a life?
Go with logic and gut feeling!
https://www.library.georgetown.edu/tutorials/research-guides/evaluating-internet-content?fbclid=IwAR3F0ebYodwOAQysqh5rbzw9VIlC6vFFK-6WDH3bwVgO5aoX1s335TlU3k0
Gary
I used to have a life but it wasn't doing me any favours so I got shut of it.
Yes I do follow the linked procedure if it is something that matters. 'Gut instinct' is wrong more than we care to admit.
Stryder5
10-06-2021, 15:24
I used to have a life but it wasn't doing me any favours so I got shut of it.
Yes I do follow the linked procedure if it is something that matters. 'Gut instinct' is wrong more than we care to admit.
I meant wife not life.....:ner:
Oh no meant both :)
Kinda depends on whether your instincts are good or not so good, always tempered with logic, common sense is good too.
I thought I was wrong once, but I was right to think I was wrong.
Gary
wife is life, at least according to Bobby Womack. of course he might be wrong.
What about post 7930?:ner:;)
Marco.
Lol, there are questions to answer on it, which you seem determined to avoid!:ner::wave:
Marco.
Lol, there are questions to answer on it, which you seem determined to avoid!:ner::wave:
Marco.
I'll come back to it. Just don't have the energy right now. Hard day at the office.
H'okay dokes... I will remind you though if you forget!:D;)
Marco.
I'd be concerned if you didn't!
Shut it, and go get a beer!:barrel:
Marco.
Stryder5
10-06-2021, 17:59
Just watching the tennis, someone remind me of the effectiveness of masks!
Not just tennis though anywhere, anytime, any sport, any activity, neck masks, chin masks, mouth masks. Touching masks continually then shopping, touching many things in all places, doors etc.......what a load of bollox.
Does anyone think that, as I’ve heard, there’s no ‘flu because of mask wearing? ‘Kin hell!
Man, there are millions of morons out there!
Gary
What about gimp masks?:D
Marco.
Stryder5
10-06-2021, 21:03
What about gimp masks?:D
Marco.
They all look like gimps to me :D
Gary
Pigmy Pony
11-06-2021, 05:53
They all look like gimps to me :D
Gary
Spare a thought for us poor buggers who look better with a mask on :(
I thought you 'doubled up', first with a mask, then a black bin bag, just to be sure!:D
Marco.
Stryder5
11-06-2021, 13:31
Spare a thought for us poor buggers who look better with a mask on :(
Sooo sorry :peace:
Gary
Pigmy Pony
11-06-2021, 17:52
I thought you 'doubled up', first with a mask, then a black bin bag, just to be sure!:D
Marco.
I really didn't have a say in it - my friends and family had a meeting, followed by an intervention :( I am not an animal, I am a human being!
Bksabath
11-06-2021, 18:11
Spare a thought for us poor buggers who look better with a mask on :(
Yes please right on
I spent 5 years whit selotape around my ears when I was a kid and now the blipping rubber bands ruined all that, but I had a break from going to the dentist so
Mask on
Sandro, are you not watching the football?
FORZA GLI AZZURRI!!!:more::more:
:D;)
Marco.
You not a football fan then, Sandro?:)
Marco.
Free at last :dance: (well almost)
Spent a brilliant morning in Bury St Edmunds; mooching around the market (bought some smoked duck, monkfish, bleu d'auvergne, parma ham, pickled garlic, olives etc), had a coffee looking out over the abbey gates while listening to an excellent busker.
It was like being on holiday .
Having had two vaccinations, and wearing a mask indoors seems a small inconvenience in order to enjoy being out and about with Fliss.
https://i.postimg.cc/s26PMW12/IMG-0380.jpg (https://postimg.cc/d7CZXL2M)
Nice on, Guy. Looks like a nice place:)
We've been enjoying being out and about now for a while. Going into Liverpool later to see a film, have a few drinks and a nice meal:cool:
Marco.
hifi_dave
12-06-2021, 14:44
Free at last :dance: (well almost)
Spent a brilliant morning in Bury St Edmunds; mooching around the market (bought some smoked duck, monkfish, bleu d'auvergne, parma ham, pickled garlic, olives etc), had a coffee looking out over the abbey gates while listening to an excellent busker.
It was like being on holiday .
Having had two vaccinations, and wearing a mask indoors seems a small inconvenience in order to enjoy being out and about with Fliss.
https://i.postimg.cc/s26PMW12/IMG-0380.jpg (https://postimg.cc/d7CZXL2M)
Haven't been to Bury Sy Edmunds since February of last year. Hopefully, if things don't get much worse, we will visit and have lunch again soon.
Similar to us Dave. So nice to be back in Bury St Edmunds again.
If you haven't tried it before "Maison Bleue" is superb for dinner, we intend to try it for lunch at some time but they tend to get booked (last time we went there for dinner we were lucky enough to get a cancellation table)
https://www.maisonbleue.co.uk
Bksabath
12-06-2021, 18:42
You not a football fan then, Sandro?:)
Marco.
I rather watch the ballet or Beach volleyball ball instead than fruitball
I got a link for you as well :)
Irene Verasio - NEW Beach Volleyball Highlights, Chilly Day. - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Beach+Volleyball+Suits+Slide+Off&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dBeach%2bVolleyball%2bS uits%2bSlide%2bOff%26FORM%3dVDMHRS&view=detail&mid=32BABC2EB27E81B910D232BABC2EB27E81B910D2&&FORM=VDRVRV)
You got a pointer and you are not to watch the age restricted ones
WTF can any one explain why the ball got to the pitch on a remote controlled car
Whit big an I mean flipping flipping big logo of Adolf Hitler brain child Volkswagen logo
(If you are ignorant about this story is simple, Mussolini promised a job to all and old watersport promised aCar to all)
I am not posting any links about watersport’s especially
ones involving under age nieces…
Came on it could have been an Alfa or a Ferrari, they are still owned by the same banks that own the EU probably nothing to do whit what is camming, but hey of all the cars they could have pick they pick that particular one, as soon as I have seen it my tin hat started glowing.
And hey pot luck Turkey first on the game, how lucky is that, nothing to do whit the car industry wanting them in the EU so they get same cheap workers as the Poles are getting a bit to kooky.
Being honest International cups I do not mind but normal Fruitball is like watching paint dry.
So yes Forza Azzurri, or even betterer big finger up to them all, Remember 1966 that is the team we need
One just hope that the Frogs loose good stile ...
Hey I am typing on the fly so if you want more just ask me why I hate frogs and turkeys
Bksabath
13-06-2021, 07:06
Any way
Go and suck a lemon is god for ya !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Home | FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (covid19criticalcare.com) (https://covid19criticalcare.com/)
Ivermectin is bad for you in large doses, this has been proved, 10 times the typical can be dangerous and also it is proven that water on doses of over 2 litres an hour is dangerous, typical doses for water is about 1 litre / hour
Ergo water is more dangerous that Ivermectin
Bksabath
13-06-2021, 08:47
Chinese scientist 'filed patent for a COVID vaccine BEFORE the virus was declared a global pandemic' | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9658235/Chinese-scientist-filed-patent-COVID-vaccine-virus-declared-global-pandemic.html)
Told you so
Also
Please note that covid19criticalcare.com has a podcast titled
Covid 19 Ivermectin and the crime of the century
Skip to 1 hour in the very long video it has information that can in my opinion be game changing on how to stop this pandemic
Bksabath
13-06-2021, 09:37
FLCCC-Ivermectin-in-the-prophylaxis-and-treatment-of-COVID-19.pdf (covid19criticalcare.com) (https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FLCCC-Ivermectin-in-the-prophylaxis-and-treatment-of-COVID-19.pdf)
Table 4. I-MASK+ Prophylaxis & Early Outpatient Treatment Protocol for COVID-19Prophylaxis ProtocolMEDICATION RECOMMENDED DOSINGlvermectin Prophylaxis for high-risk individuals: 0.2 mg/kg per dose* — one dose today, 2nd dose in 48 hours, then one dose every 2 weeks Post COVID-19 exposure prophylaxis***: 0.2 mg/kg per dose, one dose today, 2nd dose in 48 hours Vitamin D3 1,000–3,000 IU/dayVitamin C 1,000 mg twice daily Quercetin 250 mg/dayMelatonin 6 mg before bedtime (causes drowsiness)Zinc 50 mg/day of elemental zincEarly Outpatient Treatment Protocol****MEDICATION RECOMMENDED DOSINGlvermectin 0.2 mg/kg per dose – one dose daily for minimum of 2 days, continue daily until recovered (max 5 days) Vitamin D3 4,000 IU/dayVitamin C 2,000 mg 2–3 times daily and Quercetin 250 mg twice a dayMelatonin 10 mg before bedtime (causes drowsiness)Zinc 100 mg/day elemental zincAspirin 325 mg/day (unless contraindicated)* Example for a person of 60 kg body weight: 60 kg × 0.2 mg = 12 mg (1 kg = 2.2 lbs) = 4 tablets (3mg/tablet). To convert pounds, divide weight in pounds by 11: example for a person of 165 pounds: 165 11 = 15 mg** The dosing may be updated as further scientific studies emerge.*** To use if a household member is COVID-19 positive, or if you have had prolonged exposure to a COVID-19+ patient without wearing a mask**** For late phase – hospitalized patients – see the FLCCC’s “MATH+” protocol on www.flccc.net
Bksabath
13-06-2021, 10:31
Covid, Ivermectin and the Crime of the Century Podcast with Dr. Pierre Kory | FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (covid19criticalcare.com) (https://covid19criticalcare.com/videos-and-press/flccc-releases/covid-ivermectin-and-the-crime-of-the-century-podcast-with-dr-pierre-kory/)
You may skip to about 1 hour in for juicy bit
Sandro, you're starting to flood the thread again with links. Please stop! Ta:)
Marco.
Bksabath
13-06-2021, 10:58
cool no more life saving tip's lets talk about fruitball or aphostropies :)
Can't help it flooding is part of my genes being from Venice
:lolsign:
Very good! Anyway, we'll leave those who wish to read the links to do so and make up their own minds:)
Marco.
Bksabath
13-06-2021, 14:38
I would be interested to hear Macca and your opinion to what is said at around 1:19:35 on the last link I posted
I know is a long video it does not really get going till about one hour in
I would be interested to hear Macca and your opinion to what is said at around 1:19:35 on the last link I posted
I know is a long video it does not really get going till about one hour in
They seen to be working from the principle that Ivermectin is effective against the virus and assuming that as it is not being deployed it must be incompetence or conspiracy.
But it has not been satisfactorily demonstrated that Ivermectin is effective in that role.
This is one of those situations where if they are right pretty much everyone else has to be wrong. Okay that does happen occasionally even in medical science, but it's still highly unlikely.
Bksabath
14-06-2021, 06:21
On my post 7959
Is the best you are going to get of a study. I agree that it has not been proven as the medical companies that have member of the boards on the big media outlet do not want it to be proven as they loose a shit load of MONEY
so one need to read that paper and make up is own mind till the truth came out
even a single life saved is worth it IMO
So take your time and have a better look at table one where the locales in bold are the ones showing that whit Ivermectin there was a reduction in death's from 30 to 75 %
I believe that only 4 tablets of just a few mG where given to each person
one thing is certain you can not put a tin hat on the people that wrote it
and by the way a solicitor firm from India is taking the WHO to curt Imo the first one of many to follow
CATalyst | Ivermectin: Indian Bar Association Serve Legal Notice on WHO's Chief Scientist - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WenJhxVWekU)
But then you can find all the info you like if you know where to look
45 Clinical Trials On Ivermectin And COVID-19, Let's Take A Look! Find New/Ongoing Clinical Trials! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s71g15qTGE)
wouldn't the pharmaceutical companies make a shitload of money out of selling Invermectin though? Surely they're not bothered what they are selling as long as it makes them money?
It's not like we could all just make our own in the bathtub.
Filterlab
14-06-2021, 14:16
It's not like we could all just make our own in the bathtub.
Definitely not as I'd have nowhere to go for a piss.
Bksabath
14-06-2021, 14:35
wouldn't the pharmaceutical companies make a shitload of money out of selling Invermectin though? Surely they're not bothered what they are selling as long as it makes them money?
It's not like we could all just make our own in the bathtub. but you can ask your mum to make same
No they don't you can get it on line for about £3 a tablet
Literally billion's of doses have been administered from the 1980
A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness - PubMed (nih.gov) (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/)
consider the cost compared to a single extra day in hospital and also what it cost to others in suffering as one stay in hospital and the bed that they need is not there
it is early days, the possibility that it will be proven when the trials are conducted appears to be there, by discussing it, we may make this happen and happen a bit earlier
Looking at wikipedia " Ivermectin is secreted in low concentration in breast milk" yes you can fill up your bathtub whit that I would be more incline to drink it from the source
The World Health Organization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization) considers ivermectin the "drug of choice" for strongyloidiasis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strongyloidiasis)
Based on the above why they do say that it is dangerous?
I did ask this before and had no answer can you put a tin hat on those dudes?
One more extract for you sourced from NIH probably that stand for Nickel Iron Hats :)
extract
Conclusions:
Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.
Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19 (nih.gov) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/)
I am in to HiFI and such, the best ever chemistry I done is just making same Nickel acetate, I do not sell drugs or own a ivermectin production line ( I wish) all I care is that there may be same benefit from it and most important of all that we must act and ask answers to the powers to be not just tag the line and let them put self interest before our collective well being
all evidence out there point to the fact that it is just what they are doing Covid is just the latest FAD...
What is the problem?
No they don't you can get it on line for about £3 a tablet
A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness - PubMed (nih.gov) (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/)
consider the cost compared to a single extra day in hospital and also what it cost to others in suffering as one stay in hospital and the bed that they need is not there
it is early days, the possibility that it will be proven when the trials are conducted appears to be there, by discussing it, we may make this happen and happen a bit earlier
yes but who makes it? Big Pharma - sells at £3 a tab of which 1 pence is the cost of production., and billions of tabs would be consumed worldwide. Do the maths, even allowing for the middle-man to wet his beak there's a lot of money to be made.
Edit - yes I agree it might be demonstrated to be efficacious further down the line but that has to happen before it's going to get officially recommended. If it had been satisfactorily demonstrated and they still won't use it then you'd have something to hang your hat on, conspiracy wise. Until then it's cart before horse.
Bksabath
14-06-2021, 15:33
Big money was made when the cat escaped the lab
a bit more transparency could have saved millions
Have a look on how Israel Singapore and Mexico responded to the pandemic and ask. What did "you" do wrong ? to Fauci the WHO the Media the Govs and China
It will take time and it will be buried under the carpet as usual, and next year they are going to sell you stories about how important is to start a new war or such
Are we going to let them carry on or try to get the services we deserve and pay for?
Bksabath
16-06-2021, 04:15
today link :)
Tuesday update - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-90kvoQac)
Skip to 10:30
I could say I got there a few days before, I do not care at all, the only thing care for is that it could have gone much better.
One can start a petition
https://www.change.org
you can start your own petition to silence me :)
or sign in to this one
http://chng.it/bKFnHJ6H
https://i.postimg.cc/sXyL6kg6/118956498-dailystar-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/d7HnDSdr)
walpurgis
17-06-2021, 06:58
Star 'readers' only look at the pictures anyway. :)
Makes a change from "scholarly" article links :lol: Anyway, headline made me smile :)
https://i.postimg.cc/sXyL6kg6/118956498-dailystar-nc.png (https://postimg.cc/d7HnDSdr)
Absolutely hilarious!!:lol:
The truth is, they're ALL fucking hopeless!!!
We need to get that balloon out of No10, as soon as possible, and kick out the rest of his cronies with him.
Marco.
Filterlab
17-06-2021, 12:07
Absolutely hilarious!!:lol:
The truth is, they're ALL fucking hopeless!!!
We need to get that balloon out of No10, as soon as possible, and kick out the rest of his cronies with him.
Marco.
LOL! "Balloon".
:lol:
Well, his head's full of Helium, rather than brains!:D
Marco.
looks like the Boris got it wrong:
"Rees-Mogg defends Hancock as 'successful genius"
:rfl::rfl::rfl::rfl:
Bksabath
17-06-2021, 15:42
Well, what do you expect whit only 30 % of the electorate bothering to vote as in the recent local elections you get the exactly what you deserve.
I've always thought they should just cut out Rees-Mogg's tongue. Obviously a smart bloke in some ways but any time he speaks in public he drops a clanger.
Filterlab
17-06-2021, 15:48
looks like the Boris got it wrong:
"Rees-Mogg defends Hancock as 'successful genius"
:rfl::rfl::rfl::rfl:
Wrong thread, it should be in 'Jokes & Funnies'. :lol:
Filterlab
17-06-2021, 15:48
I've always thought they should just cut out Rees-Mogg's tongue. Obviously a smart bloke in some ways but any time he speaks in public he drops a clanger.
Ironically he looks like a Clanger with a nose-job.
he reminds me of Donald Pleasance playing Heinrich Himmler in 'The Eagle Has Landed.'
Pleasance actually being a better Heinrich Himmler than the real Heinrich Himmler of course. The most flattering portrayal of an historic figure in the history of film I reckon.
Bksabath
17-06-2021, 16:52
No scholarly links today
But one can sign a petition
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/fire-fauci-and-investigate-him-now
Filterlab
17-06-2021, 19:16
Why? What could it possibly solve?
Bksabath
17-06-2021, 19:20
why not ?
next time they may think about it doing it again
Well, what do you expect whit only 30 % of the electorate bothering to vote as in the recent local elections you get the exactly what you deserve.
Are you sure? last general election was just over 67%, and I would have thought perhaps similar for local elections (unless people just don't think they are important, in which case "not voting" is a valid comment?)
Filterlab
17-06-2021, 19:43
why not ?
next time they may think about it doing it again
How many pandemics do you imagine there will be?
walpurgis
17-06-2021, 19:51
How many pandemics do you imagine there will be?
There have been many historically and the future probably holds many more. And there is potential for something radically worse.
There have been many historically and the future probably holds many more. And there is potential for something radically worse.
Cheerful Charlie here
It won't matter.. I have it on good authority that everyone who's been vaccinated for Covid will turn into a zombie before then;)
Marco.
Stryder5
17-06-2021, 21:02
It won't matter.. I have it on good authority that everyone who's been vaccinated for Covid will turn into a zombie before then;)
Marco.
Majority were before :D
Gary
slow zombies or those quick ones?
Filterlab
17-06-2021, 21:07
There have been many historically and the future probably holds many more. And there is potential for something radically worse.
There have been a handful in the last 2,000 years. More epidemics, but those are limited in scope and reach. Worrying about it is pointless as it's beyond our control. All the absurd attempts at stopping this one have done nothing to stop it. The only thing that's been slowed is the global economy.
The quick bastards!
Marco.
Majority were before :D
Gary
People were being turned into zombies well before the advent of Covid-19. You have social media to thank for that, and the reliance on smartphones.
People were being turned into zombies well before the advent of Covid-19. You have social media to thank for that, and the reliance on smartphones.
:exactly:
Pigmy Pony
17-06-2021, 22:20
It won't matter.. I have it on good authority that everyone who's been vaccinated for Covid will turn into a zombie before then;)
Marco.
At least we'll have the unvaccinated to look after us - well the ones who aren't yet dead :)
Bksabath
18-06-2021, 03:52
How many pandemics do you imagine there will be?
It is the attitude that need changing we pay for services and all we get is lies
The next one may not be a pandemic it could be :scratch: a war
They are already paving the road for confrontation whit Russia
This surely promote me to a stainless steel colander as an upgrade from a tin hat Yes?
thing is they did it before. you can ask Katharine Gun
Or consider the media spin on things
The kids that are throwing stones in Myamar are classed as freedom fighters and the ones in Israel are terrorist
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