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We all know that is the technical facts but Joe public votes for who they want to be the leader at the time of the election. they vote for the MP who will give them that choice.
True, I voted for Boris to be PM, I've no idea of the name of the Tory MP I voted for. But he's the Prime Minister, not The Leader. It's not the same thing. And I voted for Boris because I like him and I didn't like Corbyn. If I was going to go down the pub for a drink with one of them there's no way I'd have chosen Corbyn. I'd imagine I'd have a laugh with Boris, Corbyn I can imagine as being one of those serious, pious, holier than thou types, a right bloody bore. Can't be doing with them.
I like Boris in the same way as I like Clarkson. Or Flashman (although he is fictional but you get the idea). I'll take ten loveable rogues over one pious hypocrite any day of the week.
Pierre De Grenoble
07-06-2020, 16:21
But he's the Prime Minister, not The Leader. It's not the same thing.
pedantics. the vast majority of the UK electorate do not think that way.
I like Boris in the same way as I like Clarkson. Or Flashman (although he is fictional but you get the idea). I'll take ten loveable rogues over one pious hypocrite any day of the week.
As Sam Goldwyn put it: 'The most important thing is sincerity. If you can fake that, you got it made'.
pedantics. the vast majority of the UK electorate do not think that way.
Well I think there is more to it than semantics so we'll disagree. Like I say I don't consider him to be 'my leader'. I voted for him because I like him. That's it. I don't normally vote because generally I don't like any of them from any party.
Politics is just a circus and when you take external factors beyond the control of any politician into account the actual decisions they can make and the things they can do in practical terms are highly limited. There's far too much fuss made of it. A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. So I don't understand people getting all upset about it. It's a crazy world, always has been, always will be.
Like I say I don't consider him to be 'my leader'. I voted for him because I like him.
Yes, so you keep saying... So what exactly do you like about him? Perhaps you could list his likeable attributes? I struggle to see many, if any.
As I've said before, clearly you have no problem with him being bigoted against the Scots and having a vehemently England [mainly London]-centric outlook, but that doesn't surprise me;)
Marco.
Yes, so you keep saying... So what exactly do you like about him? Perhaps you could list his likeable attributes? I struggle to see many, if any.
As I've said before, clearly you have no problem with him being bigoted against the Scots and vehemently England-centric in his outlook, but that doesn't surprise me;)
Marco.
Well I don't know about post Covid but beforehand I liked the way he seemed to regard it all as a big jape. If you take Theresa May as a comparison, she always looked nervous and out of her depth, whereas Boris never looked bothered about anything for a second. He'd just brush everything aside. Nothing fazed him. Boundless confidence, that's a re-assuring trait. That's what you need if you're going to be in charge of things. He looked like he would actually enjoy being PM.
Interestingly Blair had a similar thing going on, not to the same extent but it was there. And Thatcher, obviously. The three PMs who all got big majorities at elections so it can't only be me who picks up on to that. Whereas May, Brown and Major didn't have it and struggled.
Why do you say he is bigoted against the Scottish?
AJSki2fly
07-06-2020, 18:06
If anyone thinks the BBC is not biased in some way is not thinking clearly. The husband of a best friend is my mother’s was a senior manager, he was a Freemason and proudly confirmed that lots of senior BBC managers were with strong Tory and right wing views, I believe that situation continues today(old boys network etc), so to expect it not to be biased is completely unrealistic. All you can hope is that what it does report is true even if biased.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If anyone thinks the BBC is not biased in some way is not thinking clearly. The husband of a best friend is my mother’s was a senior manager, he was a Freemason and proudly confirmed that lots of senior BBC managers were with strong Tory and right wing views, I believe that situation continues today(old boys network etc), so to expect it not to be biased is completely unrealistic. All you can hope is that what it does report is true even if biased.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm sure none us is free from bias, but if what you say is true, it's odd that some perceive the BBC as left-wing.
Why do you say he is bigoted against the Scottish?
Aside from anything else (and there's plenty) his infamous quote when he was mayor of London, about a pound spent on Croydon was more valuable than a pound spent on Strathclyde (which sums him up nicely):
https://youtu.be/9N2AlpxRY9c
Just listen to him: London this, England that... As a Scot, it just makes you want to slap the c*nt! And he's carried the same bigoted, pro-England attitude into his role as PM.
I have no time whatsoever for 'little Englanders' like that [no wonder the Scots want independence], so when he's eventually kicked out on his arse, for being exposed as a hopeless balloon with his and his party's fatally misjudged handling of this pandemic, I'll be the first one to laugh!!:D
Marco.
P.S I get what you mean about leadership qualities, but in that respect he's not in Thatcher's league.
He was mayor of London though so obviously he was going to be fighting London's corner. I'm sure if he'd been mayor of Glasgow he'd have been after more cash for Glasgow.
That's sort of how it works in politics. if you're Defence Secretary you're lobbying the Treasury for more money for Defence. Then they move you to Home Secretary and now your telling the Chancellor screw spending on Defence, we need to spend the money on the Police and the prisons. The more money your department has, the more you can do, makes you look better in the job.
There's the bit in 'Yes Minister' where the heads of the armed forces are talking about 'our traditional enemy'. The Minister suggests several countries; Russia? France? Germany? to which the reply is 'No, Minister, the Treasury'.
I'm sure if he'd been mayor of Glasgow he'd have been after more cash for Glasgow.
:lol::lol:
That's the funniest (and most misguided thing) I've heard in years, sorry!
Unfortunately, it's just *who he is* (a 'little Englander'). He'd be going on about London this and England that, if he was Mayor of Manitoba or Prime Minister of Poland!!
Marco.
This is as funny as fuck: https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/06/woman-told-her-f-boris-t-shirt-is-illegal-by-police/?ncid=webmail
I want one, and I'd bloody wear it, too!! Mind you, it wouldn't looks as good on me:D
Marco.
There's the bit in 'Yes Minister' where the heads of the armed forces are talking about 'our traditional enemy'. The Minister suggests several countries; Russia? France? Germany? to which the reply is 'No, Minister, the Treasury'.
Exactly. Marco won't watch it though. I'd make it compulsory viewing in schools.
:lol::lol:
That's the funniest (and most misguided thing) I've heard in years, sorry!
It's just *who he is* (a 'little Englander'). He'd be going on about London this and England that, if he was Prime Minister of Poland, or Mayor of Manitoba!!
Marco.
if you understood how politics works you'd see it differently.
Really? And earlier you were talking about ME being patronising!:doh:
Just because I'm not a politics nerd doesn't mean I don't 'understand how it works'.
Marco.
Exactly. Marco won't watch it though. I'd make it compulsory viewing in schools.
No, indeed I won't. My parents hated it, when it was on, back in the day, and I've had no reason since to hold an alternative view.
Marco.
I liked it, but sometimes it was a bit too smug for its own good. Maggie T's 'guest appearance' was car-crash TV.
I liked it, but sometimes it was a bit too smug for its own good.
One of the reasons I hated it. Plus, in those days, when I was a teenager, I had ZERO interest in politics. I was too interested in girls, football, music, and other things, far more important!;)
Politics was considered as 'yawnsville', very BOOOORRINNG - and just for old folks or nerds to yack about.
Marco.
In my defence I wasn't a teenager. in fact, I was working in Whitehall.
Good stuff, but the age difference between some of us is I feel is forgotten in some discussions. Not just in terms of the number, but some folks are just considerably 'older in the head'....
Marco.
That's because I'm so well-preserved.
Wot like a lemon?:D
[Think Moroccan cuisine]
Marco.
I was thinking more of a listed building.
I thought you've have said fine wine!
Marco.
Wee Nicola's got it sortit': https://www.aol.co.uk/living/2020/06/07/no-new-coronavirus-deaths-in-scotland/
;)
Marco.
I thought you've have said fine wine!
Marco.
Fine whine, maybe.
Hi Ben,
Sorry for the late reply - great post! I wholeheartedly concur with much of it. However, let's go through some specifics:
All encompassing labels (one size fits all) are rarely ideal but it is a good tool to help one understand the mindset of individuals involved, especially in a debate or conversation. Today when you are unable to question due to fear of being called racist, xenophobic, sexist or some other tasty label to make you feel terrible what else can you use?
For me, although I can see where you're coming from, ideally nothing. I just don't see any worthwhile purpose in applying labels to people, and I feel exactly the same when it comes to denoting class! Upper, middle or working, or any combination thereof. That shit irks me big time! Who cares?? It's what's in your heart that counts. Therefore, labels are totally superficial and pointless. Far better just to be WHO you are and OWN IT (as the kids say now), and simply be judged on your actions!:)
My motto: care not about being liked or popular (by people or in places that don't matter), as long as you know that you're doing the RIGHT thing - and the good folk will find you, join you and follow you.
I’m of the same opinion about politics but that makes us a dying breed. Unfortunately the politics game has changed, identity politics is being used more than ever by appealing to a supposed minority in a poor attempt to gather votes. The liberal/left mindset or what ever you wish to call it is throughout social media and universities. It is indoctrination in its purest form. One look at how Trump is portrayed in the media will tell you that.
I agree 110%!!:clap:
It is total indoctrination, but you have to ask where it's originating from and what or who is behind it? Me? I simply refuse to conform to the 'accepted norm' or pander to political correctness. Always remain true to who YOU are, not what the system wants you to become!
I'm just HONEST and tell it as I see it, politely and constructively, and if someone chooses to take offence, then that's THEIR problem, not mine. I'll remain a free-thinker, staunchly anti-establishment, and in that respect, I'll robustly fight 'the system' whenever I consider it necessary, especially when fiercely protecting my human rights and civil liberties. In that respect, I simply won't be intimidated, brainwashed or bullied by anyone!
The Trump point you make is interesting... What do you think is the driving force behind that?
Look, there's no doubt he's a dimwitted sexist and misogynistic dickhead, and possibly racist too (with a comical hairdo) - all odious traits in a person... BUT, if what I think he's there for (as mentioned before) he achieves while he's in power, then all his personal faults will pale into insignificance. My gut instincts tell me that, one way or the other, he's going to do something very significant (possibly a great thing for mankind), and which will go down in history before his time as president of the US is up - so let's wait and see what happens!
The video I posted is just a small taster of what is going and was being used to try and explain to Joe why a leftie forum will ironically label Laura Kuenssberg right wing.
Lol - I know! I quite like her, actually. She's one of the smarter and better BBC journalists, and I admire her tenacity. I love how she insists on pressing the representative Tory trio of Dumb, Dummer and Dummest, hosting the nightly government comedy show, called the 'BBC News Special', like a dog with a bone, and won't give up until she gets the answer she wants!:D
Of course the rich and powerful are protected, it’s the one of the things money can buy unless your name happens to be Jeffery Epstein!
Ha - indeed, or Harvey Weinstein! Some say that if Hilary Clinton had been elected as US president instead (as apparently she's a puppet for the elite), those two wankers wouldn't have been exposed for the scum that they were and rightfully brought to justice!
In terms of Epstein, do you also agree with me that Prince Andrew is up to his neck in it too, and that that's all been rather 'conveniently' brushed under the carpet recently? I think he's as guilty as sin [as was shown in that ridiculous TV interview], and so would also like to see him also brought to justice! Being a member of the Royal family should not preclude you from being punished for a heinous crime - and in that respect I'd like to see some in-depth, no holds-bared probing into to the private life of Andy-boy, and him subsequently exposed for any wrong-doings!
That's what should've happened with that scum Saville, LONG before he was eventually found out. Instead he was allowed to get away with his sickening behaviour for years, largely by the corrupt BBC and government of the time, and crucially because he was 'connected' in high places. And trust me, there's plenty more paedophiles like that [some in VERY high places indeed] currently being protected by 'the system'! And it makes me sick to my gut...
Quite simply, NO -ONE should be protected or exempt from being punished for breaking the law. I also think that Gates was in with Epstein, with the sex trafficking thing (possibly lots more shady shit, too), and that if someone was to probe into his private activities, they might find some 'interesting' material! I can't stand corruption of any description or 'money men' or Royals using their wealth and power to get away with murder - sometimes literally! Honestly, if I was granted three wishes, one of them would be to bring down these bastards, one by one, and LAUGH LOUDLY in their faces when I did!!:trust:
I am in full agreement that no matter what a persons political standing, race, colour, creed or financial situation is they should be held accountable for their actions and power to the people is great ideal but what happens when those people are taught to have a political bias?
Absolutely! But taught by whom?
I believe in fairness and equality for ALL, with no-one being given unjustified preferential treatment, simply because of wealth or status.
My concern is much more with championing the rights and best interests of the common man, and if given the power to change the world in some way, the first thing I'd do is bring down the corrupt authorities and billionaires who've (so far) illegally profited from the misery of others, tramping over anyone who got in their way, then I'd make them pay for their crimes and return more power to the people!
Expose corruption at ALL levels, bring down the unscrupulous 'fat cats', and create a fairer and more equal, just and ethical society, first and foremost based upon prioritising humanitarian values and helping the needy, not on nurturing greed, money and power. Noble aims, I know, and of course completely impossible to achieve, but I guess that one can but dream!!:)
Marco.
Fine whine, maybe.
Is that what your wife would say?;)
Marco.
Justice is closing in on you, Andy-Pandy..... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52962980
:eyebrows::D
Marco.
I wouldn't hold my breath :lol:
I know, but one can hope! The fucker's been up to no good, and he knows it....
Marco.
Everyone, including his mum (probably), knows it. Just typifies his life in my view.
Indeed, and that of many scumbag Royals! I'd tear down the whole outdated institution, and disinfect the putrid stench of immoral debauchery and corruption it left behind!!
:exactly:
Marco [not a Royalist].
He’ll be protected by the Firm.
Lets see how the “Special Relationship” plays out with this one...
American Authorities calling him out as a liar...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaA5YPXWkAUvtFA?format=jpg&name=900x900
Look, there's no doubt he's a dimwitted sexist and misogynistic dickhead, and possibly racist too (with a comical hairdo) - all odious traits in a person... BUT, if what I think he's there for (as mentioned before) he achieves while he's in power, then all his personal faults will pale into insignificance. My gut instincts tell me that, one way or the other, he's going to do something very significant (possibly a great thing for mankind), and which will go down in history before his time as president of the US is up - so let's wait and see what happens!
I just don't get this 'Trump's as saviour of America' or 'Trump the enemy of the rich elite'. His tax reforms made wealthy individuals and corporations much richer, and did little or nothing for the poor. His main media backer is Fox News, owned by Rupert Murdoch, one of the richest men in the world, and presumably one of the elite!
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-01-01/donald-trump-tax-cut-deficit
'Trump promised his corporate tax cuts would result in an average pay raise of $4,000 for working families. His top economic advisor more than doubled down on that guarantee, saying the raise could be $9,000 and that higher wages would quickly follow passage of the plan.
Census data show that median family income instead grew by about $500 in the first year after the tax cuts, the smallest annual increase in five years. A close look at Bureau of Labor Statistics figures shows that the growth rate in wages was just 0.4% in the two years since the tax cut. Compare that with wage growth of 0.7% in the last two years of President Obama’s administration.
Just as the wealthy got the biggest share of the individual tax cuts, big firms grabbed the bulk of tax cuts supposedly targeted at small businesses. In 2018, owners of the elite group of non-corporate businesses that earned more than $1 million received nearly half the benefits from the part of the law touted as a small-business tax cut. Enterprises with profits of less than $200,000 a year — the coffee shops and independent web designers most of us picture when we hear “small business” — got less than a quarter of the cuts.'
He’ll be protected by the Firm.
Lets see how the “Special Relationship” plays out with this one...
American Authorities calling him out as a liar...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaA5YPXWkAUvtFA?format=jpg&name=900x900
Yup, they should go after him like a dog with a bone, and not stop until he's FORCED TO COMPLY, and like it!!
Btw, who are you referring to as "the Firm"?
Marco.
I just don't get this 'Trump's as saviour of America' or 'Trump the enemy of the rich elite'. His tax reforms made wealthy individuals and corporations much richer, and did little or nothing for the poor. His main media backer is Fox News, owned by Rupert Murdoch, one of the richest men in the world, and presumably one of the elite!
Let's just say it's a hunch I've got;)
Btw, neither Murdoch or Trump are/were remotely rich enough to be part of the elite!
Marco.
The Royal Family
I thought that's what you meant, but was just checking!
If Andy-Pandy gets away with it, it'll simply highlight how rotten and corrupt to the core our system is.
Marco.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51271871
"Prince Andrew was accused of lacking empathy for Epstein's victims in his Newsnight interview and failing to show regret over their friendship."
That's because has none and is proud of their friendship... He's just a self-entitled scumbag who doesn't give a fuck!
"Before being asked about Prince Andrew, he spoke about the progress of the sex trafficking investigation and said it was looking at possible "conspirators" who had worked alongside Epstein procuring girls for the financier's sexual gratification. Jeffrey Epstein couldn't have done what he did without the assistance of others..."
Yeah, try Bill Gates!
Marco.
I thought that's what you meant, but was just checking!
If Andy-Pandy gets away with it, it'll simply highlight how rotten and corrupt to the core our system is.
Marco.
You can't claim to be a campaigner against injustice and at the same time find a man guilty before he's even been charged with a crime let alone found guilty of one...
I'm not finding him guilty - I have no authority for that - I simply *strongly suspect* he's guilty. And I bet if the matter is PROPERLY investigated (with no cover-ups), there'll be a ton of evidence to prove it.
What do you think?
Btw, I don't believe that Epstein 'committed suicide' either! How convenient... :doh:
Marco.
Blow Job is now no longer seen as the 'golden boy', by 56% of Britons, who are now waking up and realising the BLUNDERING BUFFOON that they've put into Downing St:
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/08/coronavirus-uk-government-joint-worst-in-the-world-for-handling/?ncid=webmail
Trust me, the remaining 44%, who were hoodwinked by his 'charm and leadership qualities', will 'smell the coffee' too, in due course....
Marco.
I'm not finding him guilty - I have no authority for that - I simply *strongly suspect* he's guilty. And I bet if the matter is PROPERLY investigated (with no cover-ups), there'll be a ton of evidence to prove it.
What do you think?
.
Don't know. Don't care. It has zero impact on my life.
Blow Job is now no longer seen as the 'golden boy', by 56% of Britons, who are now waking up and realising the BLUNDERING BUFFOON that they've put into Downing St:
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/08/coronavirus-uk-government-joint-worst-in-the-world-for-handling/?ncid=webmail
Trust me, the remaining 44%, who were hoodwinked by his 'charm and leadership qualities', will 'smell the coffee' too, in due course....
Marco.
Meanwhile, across the pond:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/06/08/president-trump-fumes-cnn-poll-showing-him-trailing-biden-and-approval-down/5317953002/
'President Donald Trump lashed out at CNN on Monday after the network released a poll that showed his job approval rating dropped 7 percentage points in one month.
The poll released Monday, conducted from June 2-5, found Trump's approval rating had sunk to 38% – its lowest level since January 2019 – and his disapproval rating had climbed to 57%. A CNN poll conducted from May 7-10 found 45% of Americans approved of the job Trump has done as president, while 51% disapproved.
The new poll also found Trump trailing the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden 55%-41%, nearly three times the five-point deficit that CNN's May poll showed.'
Pierre De Grenoble
08-06-2020, 21:46
Don't know. Don't care. It has zero impact on my life.
Yes it does, despite what you profess, the cunts in charge effect every bodies life in countless 1000's of ways, simply because of what they force us plebs to accept.
Yes it does, despite what you profess, the cunts in charge effect every bodies life in countless 1000's of ways, simply because of what they force us plebs to accept.
And exactly what is it that we are 'forced to accept?. Can you give examples? Empty slogans, hatred and invective will turn people away from your point of view, not convince them of it.
Why do think so many people voted for another Conservative government rather than Corbyn's New Jerusalem? You're your own worst enemies in that regard.
.............
Lets see how the “Special Relationship” plays out with this one...
.......
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaA5YPXWkAUvtFA?format=jpg&name=900x900
Breaking news ................ Authorities looking in to exchanging Ann Sacoolas for HRH Prince Andrew :)
Yes it does, despite what you profess, the cunts in charge effect every bodies life in countless 1000's of ways, simply because of what they force us plebs to accept.
But what has that got to do with whether Prince Andrew is guilty of a criminal offence* and/or whether he can be forced to testify in the US (as opposed to giving evidence remotely via video link)?
* AFAIK having consensual sex with a 17-year-old is not a criminal offence in this country, but I am a Doctor, not a lawyer.
But what has that got to do with whether Prince Andrew is guilty of a criminal offence* and/or whether he can be forced to testify in the US (as opposed to giving evidence remotely via video link)?
* AFAIK having consensual sex with a 17-year-old is not a criminal offence in this country, but I am a Doctor, not a lawyer.
At the moment I think that the American authorities want to interview with a view to investigating Epstein's activities.
Unfortunately, Epstein can not be interviewed as he died (in strange circumstances, some might say).
I would expect that Ghislaine Maxwell would be interviewed at some stage, also to find out whether any more light can be shed on Epstein's activities.
I had to look this bit up as I was also confused by the alleged victim being 17 at the time:
"{Chapter 117, 18 U.S.C. 2423(a)} forbids transporting a minor (defined as under 18) in interstate or foreign commerce with the intent of engaging in criminal sexual acts in which a person can be charged. This subsection is ambiguous on its face and seems to apply only when the minor is transported across state or international lines to a place where the conduct is already illegal to begin with. The United States Department of Justice seems to agree with this interpretation."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States
Whether this is the reason for the interest I am not sure, but if it is then regardless of where the activity took place then the American authorities would need to investigate.
Meanwhile, across the pond:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/06/08/president-trump-fumes-cnn-poll-showing-him-trailing-biden-and-approval-down/5317953002/
'President Donald Trump lashed out at CNN on Monday after the network released a poll that showed his job approval rating dropped 7 percentage points in one month.
The poll released Monday, conducted from June 2-5, found Trump's approval rating had sunk to 38% – its lowest level since January 2019 – and his disapproval rating had climbed to 57%. A CNN poll conducted from May 7-10 found 45% of Americans approved of the job Trump has done as president, while 51% disapproved.
The new poll also found Trump trailing the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden 55%-41%, nearly three times the five-point deficit that CNN's May poll showed.'
That's cool, but CNN is seen to serve the agenda of the elite, and Fox a bit more 'liberal' [based on my research into that], so you'd expect any polls they've conducted to portray Trump in a negative light. Remember of course, just like with Johnson, opinion polls can quickly change depending on circumstances, and in terms of both Johnson and Trump are very likely to reflect different results in six months time.
Marco.
Don't know. Don't care. It has zero impact on my life.
Same here, although that's a rather superficial way of looking at it, but I have a MASSIVE problem with corruption, and in particular wealthy and powerful people abusing their authority to cover up their wrong-doings.
That is not only completely abhorrent and immoral, but also sets a very dangerous precedent, should it be allowed to go unpunished (if PA is guilty), and which indirectly *could* impact on your life, mine and many others in future.
If you want examples, use your imagination!
Marco.
Yes it does, despite what you profess, the cunts in charge effect every bodies life in countless 1000's of ways, simply because of what they force us plebs to accept.
100% correct! But Martin wants us to give specific examples of something that either hasn't happened yet, or may be happening covertly, and which of course there is no proof of yet.
Clearly he has superhuman powers!;)
Marco.
Same here, although that's a rather superficial way of looking at it, but I have a MASSIVE problem with corruption, and in particular wealthy and powerful people abusing their authority to cover up their wrong-doings. That is not only completely immoral and abhorrent, but also sets a very dangerous precedent, should it be allowed to go unpunished, and which indirectly *could* impact on your life, mine and many others in future.
If you want examples, use your imagination!
Marco.
In the Prince Andrew situation, if there is sufficient evidence then let him be charged with a crime and then tried for it, and if found guilty, punished. I don't see any 'wider implications' here. And I don't approve of 'trial by internet.'
100% correct! But Martin wants us to give specific examples of something that either hasn't happened yet, or may be happening covertly, and which of course there is no proof of yet.
Clearly he has superhuman powers!;)
Marco.
I'm sure Steve was making a general observation and not one specific to the Prince Andrew situation. I asked for examples of 'what they force us plebs to accept.' I don't think that an unreasonable request or one that should be difficult to answer if it derives from a position that has been thought through rather than just empty class-warrior rhetoric.
Well, I think he was entitled to make the statement, so I'll leave him to justify it.
Marco.
At the moment I think that the American authorities want to interview with a view to investigating Epstein's activities.
Unfortunately, Epstein can not be interviewed as he died (in strange circumstances, some might say).
I would expect that Ghislaine Maxwell would be interviewed at some stage, also to find out whether any more light can be shed on Epstein's activities.
I had to look this bit up as I was also confused by the alleged victim being 17 at the time:
"{Chapter 117, 18 U.S.C. 2423(a)} forbids transporting a minor (defined as under 18) in interstate or foreign commerce with the intent of engaging in criminal sexual acts in which a person can be charged. This subsection is ambiguous on its face and seems to apply only when the minor is transported across state or international lines to a place where the conduct is already illegal to begin with. The United States Department of Justice seems to agree with this interpretation."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States
Whether this is the reason for the interest I am not sure, but if it is then regardless of where the activity took place then the American authorities would need to investigate.
age of consent in New York State is 17. So if the alleged incident took place in New York State then this is not a crime. Of course if the woman was unwilling then it is rape. Although that's going to be a lot more difficult to prove, again assuming anything did happen to begin with, which we cannot be certain of, at least at this stage.
But what has that got to do with whether Prince Andrew is guilty of a criminal offence* and/or whether he can be forced to testify in the US (as opposed to giving evidence remotely via video link)?
* AFAIK having consensual sex with a 17-year-old is not a criminal offence in this country, but I am a Doctor, not a lawyer.
That's not the main point though; it's whether Andy has been involved with Epstein in relation to sex trafficking, not just potentially being a dirty old man.
Marco.
age of consent in New York State is 17. So if the alleged incident took place in New York State then this is not a crime. Of course if the woman was unwilling then it is rape. Although that's going to be a lot more difficult to prove, again assuming anything did happen to begin with, which we cannot be certain of, at least at this stage.
US Virgin Islands (a name to conjure with!) where some of the meetings are alleged to have occurred is 18.
Whether or not the allegations are true, the actions of HRH Prince Andrew are questionable in my opinion.
As always with respect Marco,
Your entitled to have your own opinion, but you don’t get to have your own facts.
Not meant as a dig at you Mate, just highlighting again (as I think you already said?) that what you are saying is just your opinion?
Drawing down on specifics:
#
“CNN is seen to serve the Agenda of the elite..”
(“Seen to serve...” Seen by whom, what does this even mean?
Also, this agenda serving..What reporters, and what instances...any examples?)
#
”Fox is a bit more liberal...based on my own research”
(“Many people have said” they are quite the opposite, and are the most ideological agenda driven News Network innAmerica speaking to an audience of one.
(and his base)
#
”You’d expect any polls to portray Trump in a negative light...”
(Who would? Which polls?)
Is your inference, (based on your Stated opinion that CNN “serves the elite Agenda - itself not based in fact) that all CNN polls are biased?
What about the favourable ones?
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion of course, and your throwing many at the wall here, very “big picture” but none of it’s based on fact mate, just your opinion.
(Lots of one assumption leading to another leading to another leading to another...know what I mean?)
Agree with you that polls changing over time.
Debate and disagreement is a healthy thing, I think everyone should be able to pitch in as long as all opinions are recognised are such?
Just saying there are facts....and there are opinions.
Important to respect the difference.
:argument:
:):cool:
That's cool, but CNN is seen to serve the agenda of the elite, and Fox a bit more 'liberal' [based on my research into that], so you'd expect any polls they've conducted to portray Trump in a negative light. Remember of course, just like with Johnson, opinion polls can quickly change depending on circumstances, and in terms of both Johnson and Trump are very likely to reflect different results in six months time.
Marco.
That's not the main point though; it's whether Andy has been involved with Epstein in relation to sex trafficking, not just potentially being a dirty old man.
Marco.
And whether he can help with enquiries now that Epstein is no longer available for interview.
btw: this has become quite a thread drift, apologies for my part.
But what has that got to do with whether Prince Andrew is guilty of a criminal offence* and/or whether he can be forced to testify in the US (as opposed to giving evidence remotely via video link)?
* AFAIK having consensual sex with a 17-year-old is not a criminal offence in this country, but I am a Doctor, not a lawyer.
https://i.imgur.com/WK0i43d.jpg
That's cool, but CNN is seen to serve the agenda of the elite, and Fox a bit more 'liberal' [based on my research into that], so you'd expect any polls they've conducted to portray Trump in a negative light. Remember of course, just like with Johnson, opinion polls can quickly change depending on circumstances, and in terms of both Johnson and Trump are very likely to reflect different results in six months time..
The difference being that Trump faces re-election in just over four months, whilst Johnson has four more years.
That's not the main point though; it's whether Andy has been involved with Epstein in relation to sex trafficking,
Marco.
If there is evidence that he was, then the US lawyers need to seek a warrant for his arrest and extradition to the US. If they just want to question him, AFAIK he can tell them to go fly a kite.
US Virgin Islands (a name to conjure with!) where some of the meetings are alleged to have occurred is 18.
Whether or not the allegations are true, the actions of HRH Prince Andrew are questionable in my opinion.
Indeed, and as I've just said, it goes way beyond that, *if* he's been involved in rather more.
Quite simply, if you don't sign up to the notion that Epstein 'committed suicide' [count me in], and instead was killed to prevent what he knew (possibly about Andrew and others) becoming public knowledge, then is something as drastic as having him assassinated likely to have occurred, simply to cover up an indecent and/or illegal sexual act with a minor?
I think not, hence what could explain the avoidance tactics by the Palace and Andrew's legal representatives in tackling the matter. Quite frankly regardless, anyone with a modicum of perceptive ability can see that he's got something to hide. The only question is WHAT.
Marco.
If there is evidence that he was, then the US lawyers need to seek a warrant for his arrest and extradition to the US. If they just want to question him, AFAIK he can tell them to go fly a kite.
Well, we'll discover in due course whether any such evidence emerges, and how the whole thing pans out.
Marco.
walpurgis
09-06-2020, 08:29
Coronavirus.
We appear to be seeing the light at the end of this long tunnel.
At its peak on April 10, the daily infection rate was an appalling 8681 reported new infections, we are now down to yesterday's count of 1205. This will not necessarily include many with minor symptoms or none (asymptomatic). There will likely be a good few people spreading the infection, simply because they don't know they have it.
There were 55 attributable deaths reported yesterday, down from the 1172 on 21st April. The total now exceeds a horrific 40,000 dead.
Don't assume that because people are ignoring lockdown in droves it's now safe out there. It isn't and there's a good way to go yet, especially for the vulnerable.
The statistics: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Well, we'll discover in due course whether any such evidence emerges, and how the whole thing pans out.
Marco.
This BBC article helpfully spells out the various legal implications:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52973219
Some key points from the article:
'US attorney Geoffrey Berman said Prince Andrew "has repeatedly declined our request" to schedule an interview.
The prince's lawyers previously rejected claims he had not co-operated, saying he offered to help three times.
The duke will not be extradited, the US government's chief lawyer has said.
US Attorney General William Barr told Fox News: "I don't think it's a question of handing him over. I think it's just a question of having him provide some evidence."'
'The DoJ has made a formal request to speak to the prince as part of its Epstein inquiry, by submitting a mutual legal assistance (MLA) request to the UK Home Office.
Under the terms of a MLA request if Prince Andrew does not voluntarily respond, he can be called to a UK court to answer questions.'
And whether he can help with enquiries now that Epstein is no longer available for interview.
Mmm... Yes, I guess that depends on your definition of the word in that context.
Btw, the thread drift isn't as apparent as you think, as whether or not we're discussing the claimed corruption and wrong-doings of Gates or the elite, or that of Epstein and (possibly) Prince Andrew, it's all interrelated, as one immoral and corrupt scumbag isn't much different from another;)
Marco.
Mmm... Yes, I guess that depends on your definition of the word in that context.
Btw, the thread drift isn't as apparent as you think, as whether or not we're discussing the claimed corruption and wrong-doings of Gates or the elite, or that of Epstein and (possibly) Prince Andrew, it's all interrelated, as one immoral and corrupt scumbag isn't much different from another;)
Marco.
'Immoral and corrupt scumbag' - sounds like Donald Trump!
In your humble opinion. I think the same about others mentioned, so how long do we conduct that pointless circular argument?
Marco.
There's nothing humble about my opinion! I'm sure Trump's business dealings are pure as the driven snow, but his refusal to release his tax returns, despite promising to do so, does make me wonder what he has to hide:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_returns_of_Donald_Trump
'The tax returns of Donald Trump have been the subject of controversy for the past several years, particularly over their not having been made public despite his political career.
Before Trump announced his candidacy for president, he repeatedly promised to release his tax returns, making such pledges in 2011, 2014 ("absolutely") and 2015.[1][2] During his presidential campaign, Trump first said he would release his returns after they were "worked on.”[3] From 2016 to 2019, Trump claimed that, because the returns were being audited, he could not make them public, but would do so in the future. No law actually prevents tax returns from being released due to an audit, as emphasized by the commissioner of internal revenue.[4][5] Trump later said that voters were not interested in his returns; that "there's nothing to learn from them"; and that his tax rate is "none of your business".[2]'
coronavirus.
We appear to be seeing the light at the end of this long tunnel.
At its peak on april 10, the daily infection rate was an appalling 8681 reported new infections, we are now down to yesterday's count of 1205. This will not necessarily include many with minor symptoms or none (asymptomatic). There will likely be a good few people spreading the infection, simply because they don't know they have it.
There were 55 attributable deaths reported yesterday, down from the 1172 on 21st april. The total now exceeds a horrific 40,000 dead.
Don't assume that because people are ignoring lockdown in droves it's now safe out there. It isn't and there's a good way to go yet, especially for the vulnerable.
The statistics: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
weekend figures are always dodgy. Scotland had 2 days of 0... See what it is today. Also we dont really know if its being manipulated to make the un lockdown look better...
weekend figures are always dodgy. Scotland had 2 days of 0... See what it is today.
A promising sign is that infection rates are falling even though testing rates have increased. But as you say, weekend figures are unreliable.
'Immoral and corrupt scumbag' - sounds like Donald Trump!
Andrew isnt wanted for anything. it boils down to who is telling the truth; his council or the US prosecutors... Personally i wouldnt trust the American prosecutors as far as i could wheach a jobbie.
Im inclined to think they are all telling half truths tbh.
There's nothing humble about my opinion!
In your humble opinion:lol:
Marco.
anthonyTD
09-06-2020, 09:06
Wonder what the latest protests will contribute/add [or not] to the figures, in around a week or two! :doh:
Andrew isnt wanted for anything. it boils down to who is telling the truth; his council or the US prosecutors... Personally i wouldnt trust the American prosecutors as far as i could wheach a jobbie.
Im inclined to think they are all telling half truths tbh.
Sure, but that doesn't automatically make Andrew innocent either, potentially in relation to sex trafficking.
Marco.
weekend figures are always dodgy. Scotland had 2 days of 0... See what it is today. Also we dont really know if its being manipulated to make the un lockdown look better...
Indeed, or what other figures are being manipulated to paint other pretty pictures, or otherwise...
Marco.
Sure, but that doesn't automatically make Andrew innocent either.
Marco.
doesnt make him guilty of anything either, except picking poor friends. if i turned out to be a terrorist, would you as a friend be automatically one too?
and if the yanks wanted you to go over for a chat about me would you just go, or would you say.. Guantanamo Bay
doesnt make him guilty of anything either, except picking poor friends. if i turned out to be a terrorist, would you as a friend be automatically one too?
and if the yanks wanted you to go over for a chat about me would you just go, or would you say.. Guantanamo Bay
I was talking mainly about in relation to potential sex trafficking. All I'm saying is that he should be properly investigated about the matter, with no stone unturned and afforded no special privileges, rights or protection, simply because of 'who he is', the same as you or I would be if we were similarly under suspicion.
Marco.
I was talking about in relation to potential sex trafficking. All I'm saying is that he should be properly investigated about the matter, with no stone unturned, and afforded no special privileges or protection, just the same as you or I would be if we were similarly under suspicion.
Marco.
i agree totally, but he is innocent until i see some evidence otherwise.. Personally i would think he should have set up a conference via Zoom:eyebrows:.... then we can all watch:ner:
i agree totally, but he is innocent until i see some evidence otherwise.. Personally i would think he should have set up a conference via Zoom:eyebrows:.... then we can all watch:ner:
Lol, for sure. All I'm saying is that IMHO, he's as guilty as sin of *some form* of underhand behaviour. Exactly what that is, remains to be seen. I guess that will be revealed in due course, or conveniently covered up!;)
Marco.
As stated in the BBC article I posted earlier, the US authorities have said they are not seeking Prince Andrew's extradition. Regardless of that, I think anyone, royal or otherwise, would be well advised to play it safe when it comes to becoming embroiled in another country's court system, where you may not have the same rights that you would have here in the UK. That's why Julian Assange was unwilling to face trial in Sweden; he feared he would be extradited from there to the US and locked up for decades. (I don't know whether Assange is a hero or villain in the Massive Big Conspiracy Theory).
In your humble opinion:lol:
My apologies to Joe for my earlier flippancy.
The point is, I'm not saying for one second that Trump is whiter than white (or even remotely so), of course not, but that's NOT the point. The point is, as I've said, I believe he's there to do a *specific job* - and that job is to slowly dismantle and take down the elite.
And of course that process can't be seen as obvious, otherwise those he seeks to take down could prevent him from doing so. Therefore, you're not likely to find any real evidence in the public domain that disproves my theory, or that Trump is being used as a 'secret weapon' in a plan to overthrow the global elite!
I fundamentally believe, however, that scum such as Epstein (or Weinstein) wouldn't have received justice for their crimes, had it not been for Trump, both of whom I believe were/are connected with the elite (note not MEMBERS of it, simply connected). Putting those types of scumbags away, therefore, is evidence of Trump slowly carrying out his plan. THAT is the point! And I believe that both would still be free men now had Clinton been PM.
Mark my words, therefore: before Trump's stint in the Whitehouse is over, more vermin will get their just desserts, as Trump moves ever closer towards fulfilling his goal.
So watch this space, as that was just the beginning - he's got Gates (and a whole host of others) in his sights next!;)
Marco.
Wonder what the latest protests will contribute/add [or not] to the figures, in around a week or two! :doh:
Yup, true, but if the 'or not' becomes reality, and at that point the number of cases and/or deaths has continued to fall, then it would give good cause for optimism that COVID-19 is on its way out of the UK.
However, as you know, you simply cannot trust any of the figures that the government are coming out with [which crucially aren't being properly challenged]. If they're simply being manipulated to paint whatever picture they like, in order to control the agenda, then who knows what will happen?
If in 2-3 weeks time, however, the effects of Coronavirus on the population continue to abate, then the possibility of *mandatory* vaccines becomes even less justifiable, so that's a good thing!
Btw, in terms of the protests over George Floyd [a truly shocking occurrence that sickens me to the core], and applying some lateral thinking to the matter, as I often do, whilst not condoning mob rule or blatant acts of thuggery, looting or vandalism, I'd say it simply serves to highlight what can happen when people are incited/angry enough to fight against and defeat an unjust, immoral, corrupt and racist system....
Now just imagine what would happen if it came out that a 'Gates vaccine' for COVID-19 was a genuine threat to humanity, as claimed by various "conspiracy theories", and global immunisation with such was stated as being mandatory by world governments, in order to end the worldwide lockdown?
Just IMAGINE the strength of feeling and protests there would be against THAT, with the lives of EVERYONE at stake, and also the likely outcome: PEOPLE POWER indeed!!! At the end of the day, there are a damn sight more of us, than there are of them....
;)
Marco.
walpurgis
09-06-2020, 11:08
Btw, in terms of the protests over George Floyd [a truly shocking occurrence that sickens me to the core], and applying some lateral thinking to the matter, as I often do, whilst not condoning mob rule or blatant acts of thuggery, looting or vandalism, I'd say it simply serves to highlight what can happen when people are incited/angry enough to fight against and defeat an unjust, immoral, corrupt and racist system....
Marco.
Floyd shouldn't have been murdered, but he was a violent and prolific criminal.
https://greatgameindia.com/george-floyd-criminal/
I don't think the US police are specifically racist, I expect they are just as happy to batter and kill white folk.
I'd be interested to know how many black on black killings have occurred there since Floyd died. They are numerous here.
I don't think the US police are specifically racist, I expect they are just as happy to batter and kill white folk.
The latter may well also be the case, but I'm afraid I'll have to vehemently disagree on the former. Racism is rife. The fact is, the US is a country with a deeply racist history, and when racists become members of their police force, that when things like that happen.
And I don't care what Floyd did before he was murdered by a RACIST WHITE POLICEMAN, regardless he didn't deserve to die like that, and when that type of incident occurs in America [white police officer kills black man], it's hugely symbolic!
We also have a similar problem in this country, although not to the same extent. However, there's no doubt that blacks are still being discriminated against, daily and in many different ways, here in the UK, and it's sickening that something like that is still happening in our country in the 21st century, which is why the recent demonstrations, throughout the UK prompted by the death of George Floyd, were entirely justified.
And I wholeheartedly support them, in order to bring about long overdue CHANGE - which is why statues of supposed British 'heroes', who in fact were heavily involved in the slave trade, have rightfully been taken down.
The fact is, they should never have been put up in the first place!!
Marco.
walpurgis
09-06-2020, 11:28
The victims of police killings in the 1968 student riots and 1968 anti Vietnam War protests were largely white and there were many. The cops just felt they were dealing with 'them damn hippies'!
Yeah, that's true, but it's got nothing to do with what I've just written, in terms of racist discrimination against blacks, which is another thing I've love to wipe off the face of this earth, along with corruption and injustice!
Marco.
Btw, in terms of the protests over George Floyd [a truly shocking occurrence that sickens me to the core], and applying some lateral thinking to the matter, as I often do, whilst not condoning mob rule or blatant acts of thuggery, looting or vandalism, I'd say it simply serves to highlight what can happen when people are incited/angry enough to fight against and defeat an unjust, immoral, corrupt and racist system....
I think you'll find that black people in the US will vote overwhelmingly for Joe Biden rather than for Donald 'send in the troops' Trump, whose power-base includes white supremacist groups including the KKK, and who 'campaigned' to prove that the first black President of the US was born in Kenya and was thus not eligible to stand for election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories
'During Barack Obama's campaign for president in 2008, throughout his presidency, and afterwards, "there was extensive news coverage of Obama's religious preference, birthplace, and of the individuals questioning his Christianity and citizenship—efforts eventually known as the 'birther movement'",[2] by which it is widely referred across media.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The movement falsely asserted Obama was ineligible to be President of the United States because he was not a natural-born citizen of the U.S. as required by Article Two of the Constitution.
Theories alleged that Obama's published birth certificate was a forgery—that his actual birthplace was not Hawaii but Kenya. Other theories alleged that Obama became a citizen of Indonesia in childhood, thereby losing his U.S. citizenship. Still others claimed that Obama was not a natural-born U.S. citizen because he was born a dual citizen (British and American). A number of political commentators have characterized these various claims as a racist reaction to Obama's status as the first African-American president of the United States.[10]
These claims were promoted by fringe theorists (pejoratively referred to as "birthers"), the most prominent among whom was Donald Trump, who would later succeed Obama as president. Some theorists sought court rulings to declare Obama ineligible to take office, or to grant access to various documents which they claimed would support such ineligibility; none of these efforts succeeded. Some political opponents, especially in the Republican Party, have expressed skepticism about Obama's citizenship or been unwilling to acknowledge it;[11] some have proposed legislation which would require presidential candidates to provide proof of eligibility.[11]'
I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. The point I was making was simply that people will rise up and rightly protest against authority, when they justifiably feel aggrieved or angry towards it, and I would always 100% support their right to take such action over racism or any other matter.
Britain's history with slavery has created a huge stain on our society, and so should no longer be 'celebrated' by having these vulgar statues erected in places all of the country, depicting what ultimately were wealthy slave traders, as it's an affront for any black person to have to witness, and be reminded of the horrors suffered by their ancestors at the hands of these evil monsters.
Therefore, I'm glad that what happened with George Floyd has prompted action to have them taken down (soon hopefully also including the statue outside of the Oriel College in Oxford), and that it forces a real change in our awareness of racial discrimination in this country, with an increased drive towards zero tolerance of such, and in eradicating racism completely, as it has no place whatsoever in modern society.
In that respect, I sincerely hope that George Floyd's death hasn't been in vain and becomes a turning point in history!
BLACK LIVES MATTER!!!
:clapclapclap:
Marco.
That just makes your support for Trump even more baffling. He's not on the side of racial minorities any more than he's on the side of women. He's a huge part of the problem, and nothing to do with the solution.
His latest idea, which he posted via Twitter (that biased outfit that he said was going to close down) is to suggest that an unarmed, 75-year-old protestor who was knocked to the ground by police officers, who left him bleeding from his ears, deliberately fell harder than he needed to:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1270333484528214018?s=20
'Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
3h
Buffalo protester shoved by Police could be an ANTIFA provocateur. 75 year old Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan police communications in order to black out the equipment.
@OANN
I watched, he fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a set up?'
You're totally missing the point and focussing on the wrong thing.
My ONLY 'support' for Trump is for him successfully bringing down the global elite, which I pray for and sincerely hope he achieves. There's way too much evil in our world today, so that would be a MAJOR victory for the force of GOOD over evil!
Nothing else involving Trump is really on my radar, so bear that in mind in future, in order to avoid any further confusion.
Marco.
Well, I don't have access to your secret sources that say what Trump is going to do re bringing down the global elite, and how he's going to do it, but he'd better get his skates on, as he's due to seek re-election in a few months time, and is rapidly pissing off the black vote while Biden is busy courting it.
Sure, but there are many things potentially due to occur (some could be monumental) before the presidential elections in November, which I'm confident will endear Mr Trump to the majority of the US electorate, subsequently ensuring that he remains in power to finish the job he's started!
Watch this space;)
Marco.
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 19:09
https://i.imgur.com/xpk5yNa.png
And that folks is Mr Starmer kneeling to an organisation that wants to abolish our police force.
Fuck me, when will this bullshit end?
Sorry, Jon, could you clarify *exactly* the point you're making? I don't fully follow you.
Marco.
Pierre De Grenoble
09-06-2020, 19:18
https://i.imgur.com/xpk5yNa.png
And that folks is Mr Starmer kneeling to an organisation that wants to abolish our police force.
Fuck me, when will this bullshit end?
better than a photo op of Boris kneeling to give Donald a BJ. My son in law is plod. The damage done to the Police Force because Of Teressa May when she was home secretary pushing Austerity is totally beyond it.
It would help if someone could provide some context to the photograph in question [and Jon's remarks], perhaps with a link? I'm not seen anything about this, so have no idea what it's supposed to be representing:scratch:
Marco.
Pierre De Grenoble
09-06-2020, 19:27
https://i.imgur.com/xpk5yNa.png
And that folks is Mr Starmer kneeling to an organisation that wants to abolish our police force.
Fuck me, when will this bullshit end?
Angela in DM's .... Phwooor.... beats the feck out of Teressa dancing on to the Party Conference stage
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 19:27
First and foremost i absolutely abhor racism, but
https://www.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund
"Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police"
https://i.imgur.com/xpk5yNa.png
And that folks is Mr Starmer kneeling to an organisation that wants to abolish our police force.
Fuck me, when will this bullshit end?
pathetic "me too" photo opportunity, so blatant that I am surprised that even political spin doctors/publicists advised it. Do they really think that the voting population is thick enough to be taken in (sorry, of course they do!)
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 19:42
Black communities are hardest hit by the Coronavirus pandemic. Black people are dying at up to four times the rate of their white counterparts. This is racism.
Also from the BLM fund raising site. I mean seriously, how is that racism? It's sad, very sad, but the BAME community are more susceptible.
Thats fact, not racism.
George was brutally murdered in my opinion and i was fucking horrified to watch that footage, but, and lets not forgot that this guy had a rather long criminal record including holding a gun to a pregnant womens stomach whilst he robbed her. He was no angel, but he didn't deserve to die the way he did imo. That said, others may disagree.
Also this vandalism of the statue of Edward Colston in Bristol by "right on rent a mob" sets quite a precedent in this country. Seems that we could lose public display of all our historical artefacts if this carries on (a chap on the Jeremy Vine show today seemed to be suggesting that Winston Churchill and Lord Nelson were fair game - like to see the bastards climb the column to deface Nelson:lol:).
According to Wiki Colston was involved in the slave trade for about two years (which is wrong by todays standards), however the company was set up by King Charles ii and also run by the duke of York (no not that one):
"In 1680, Colston became a member of the Royal African Company, which had held the monopoly in England on trading along the west coast of Africa in gold, silver, ivory and slaves from 1662.[5] Colston was deputy governor of the company from 1689 to 1690. His association with the company ended in 1692.[2] This company had been set up by King Charles II and his brother the Duke of York (later King James II), who was the governor of the company, together with City of London merchants, and it had many notable investors, including philosopher and physician John Locke (who later changed his stance on the slave trade) and the diarist Samuel Pepys."
So let's destroy any artefacts relating to any person from that period of our history?
Black communities are hardest hit by the Coronavirus pandemic. Black people are dying at up to four times the rate of their white counterparts. This is racism.
Also from the BLM fund raising site. I mean seriously, how is that racism? It's sad, very sad, but the BAME community are more susceptible.
Thats fact, not racism.
George was brutally murdered in my opinion and i was fucking horrified to watch that footage, but, and lets not forgot that this guy had a rather long criminal record including holding a gun to a pregnant womens stomach whilst he robbed her. He was no angel, but he didn't deserve to die the way he did imo. That said, others may disagree.
Yeah I get all that, and sympathise with your views, but it doesn't detract one iota from the sentiments I expressed earlier.
Could you please explain that kneeling photograph you posted, as I haven't a clue as to its reference? Exactly what point were you making?:scratch:
Marco.
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 19:48
pathetic "me too" photo opportunity, so blatant that I am surprised that even political spin doctors/publicists advised it. Do they really think that the voting population is thick enough to be taken in (sorry, of course they do!)
I actually thought it was a photoshopped pic when i first saw it, so amazed was i that anyone could possibly be "that" stupid.
I don't think even Corbyn would sink that low.
Anyway, thats Labour fucked for the foreseeable future.
Black communities are hardest hit by the Coronavirus pandemic. Black people are dying at up to four times the rate of their white counterparts. This is racism.
Also from the BLM fund raising site. I mean seriously, how is that racism? It's sad, very sad, but the BAME community are more susceptible.
Thats fact, not racism.
George was brutally murdered in my opinion and i was fucking horrified to watch that footage, but, and lets not forgot that this guy had a rather long criminal record including holding a gun to a pregnant womens stomach whilst he robbed her. He was no angel, but he didn't deserve to die the way he did imo. That said, others may disagree.
I was also horrified by his death (particularly his crying for his mother and the look of satisfaction on the cops face), but I agree with your post.
Still, at least they're kneeling six feet apart.
Marco: I think Starmer and Rayner are modelling the 'take the knee' position which various people/groups have adopted to show their solidarity with black people:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/brits-take-knee-tribute-george-floyd-victims-police-brutality/
According to Wiki Colston was involved in the slave trade for about two years (which is wrong by todays standards), however the company was set up by King Charles ii and also run by the duke of York (no not that one):
"In 1680, Colston became a member of the Royal African Company, which had held the monopoly in England on trading along the west coast of Africa in gold, silver, ivory and slaves from 1662.[5] Colston was deputy governor of the company from 1689 to 1690. His association with the company ended in 1692.[2] This company had been set up by King Charles II and his brother the Duke of York (later King James II), who was the governor of the company, together with City of London merchants, and it had many notable investors, including philosopher and physician John Locke (who later changed his stance on the slave trade) and the diarist Samuel Pepys."
So let's destroy any artefacts relating to any person from that period of our history?
Well, that's 2 years too many in my book!! Anyone who was involved in *any way* in the slavery business is worse than a sub-human in my book - including any Royals who were historically involved. Utter scum!
Marco.
Still, at least they're kneeling six feet apart.
Marco: I think Starmer and Rayner are modelling the 'take the knee' position which various people/groups have adopted to show their solidarity with black people:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/brits-take-knee-tribute-george-floyd-victims-police-brutality/
Ah I see, I'd never heard of this "take the knee" thing until now! Cheers.
Well. if that's what it represents, I'm all in favour of it!
I've no idea what Jon's beef with it is? That's the problem when you pots pictures, accompanied by some random remarks, without explaining yourself properly:rolleyes:
Marco.
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 19:57
A large proportion of the UK was built by slaver money.
The pyramids for one of a million examples were built by slaves, should we tear them down and chuck them in a river?
I actually thought it was a photoshopped pic when i first saw it, so amazed was i that anyone could possibly be "that" stupid.
*WHAT* exactly is "stupid" about it? SPIT IT OUT, please, in no uncertain terms. Ta!
Marco.
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 20:01
Ah I see, I've never heard of this "take the knee" until now! Cheers.
Well. if that's what it represents, I'm all in favour of it!
I've no idea what Jon's beef with it is? That's the problem when you post pictures, accompanied by some random remarks without explaining yourself properly:rolleyes:
Marco.
Marco, I have no beef apart from the crassness of Starmer doing it, and why he's doing it.
I assumed you've watched the recent events in the news, but obviously you hadn't. Fair enough.
A large proportion of the UK was built by slaver money.
The pyramids for one of a million examples were built by slaves, should we tear them down and chuck them in a river?
Well, that's the problem if you take things to extremes. A few statues pulled down here and there around the UK I don't see any issue with, as it serves to make an important point and convey the message that racism (and certainly slavery) should play no part in today's world.
Marco.
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 20:03
*WHAT* exactly is "stupid" about it? SPIT IT OUT, please, in no uncertain terms. Ta!
Marco.
Guy explained it perfectly.
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 20:07
Well, that's the problem if you take things to extremes.
Marco.
And that's exactly my point. Some people (not the genuine ones who want to put and end to racism, and good on them) are taking things to extremes, like the twunt who spray painted "is a racist" under Churchills name on his statue.
What possible purpose can that serve?
RobbieGong
09-06-2020, 20:10
A large proportion of the UK was built by slaver money.
The pyramids for one of a million examples were built by slaves, should we tear them down and chuck them in a river?
It is actually now documented and believed that slaves did not build the tombs - loads online from untold quarters.
Either way and also, in these times, why would anyone want to present some kind of 'point' or 'argument' against pulling down symbols like that statue :scratch: :rolleyes:
Marco, I have no beef apart from the crassness of Starmer doing it, and why he's doing it.
I assumed you've watched the recent events in the news, but obviously you hadn't. Fair enough.
Yeah, soz, I was busy earlier and so hadn't watched the news.
Marco.
And that's exactly my point. Some people (not the genuine ones who want to put and end to racism, and good on them) are taking things to extremes, like the twunt who spray painted "is a racist" under Churchills name on his statue.
What possible purpose can that serve?
I agree and don't have any truck with the latter, or taking things to extremes, but largely the protests haven't been about that.
Marco.
Pierre De Grenoble
09-06-2020, 20:22
I actually thought it was a photoshopped pic when i first saw it, so amazed was i that anyone could possibly be "that" stupid.
I don't think even Corbyn would sink that low.
Anyway, thats Labour fucked for the foreseeable future.
Your looking at the leadership after the next election. Jeeza was a prick that put his principles before party & country to detrimental effect. but here's the thing he NEVER lied. ( go fact check) which is more than can be said for Billy Bluster with the 6 foot long nose.
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 20:31
The gallery of modern art in Glasgow was built from the money of slave labour and as was god knows how many other famous buildings in the UK.
All i'm saying is attacking an defacing an inanimate object does nothing to end racism.
Anyone remember Fusilier Lee Rigby? Did we have protests and violence for that?
All i'm saying is attacking an defacing an inanimate object does nothing to end racism.
I agree with that, but it's symbolistic, and fine if taken to a point, but of course not as far as tearing down buildings. That would be just ridiculous.
Marco.
Either way and also, in these times, why would anyone want to present some kind of 'point' or 'argument' against pulling down symbols like that statue :scratch: :rolleyes:
The point or argument against pulling down symbols is that nothing of any historical interest/point/lesson would be left.
The list could go on but here are a few of my thoughts:
Many historical figures in Europe had a statue/s erected in their memory, given that most if not all made their money/status through abhorrent practices does that mean we should Destroy the lot?
The Taliban dynamited images of Buddha in Afghanistan, was that right?
In Africa we have Robert Mugabe, Al Bashir, Idi Amin etc should any evidence/artefact from their regime be left for future generations?
InThe Sticks
09-06-2020, 21:11
I agree with that, but it's symbolistic, and fine if taken to a point, but of course not as far as tearing down buildings. That would be just ridiculous.
Marco.
Why not, they stand for the exact same thing and have come from the same exact slave money.
Chucking a "symbol" in the river whilst the main bulk of the symbol still remains is madness, it achieves nothing apart from to appease the baying mob.
There's far too many statues anyway.
It's interesting that many statues of Lenin, Stalin and Marx were pulled down in Eastern Europe after the end of Communist rule there. Did anyone bleat about that, or was it OK because a) they were 'bad guys' and b) the statues weren't that old, so not as 'valuable' in some intangible way. The point is the statues symbolised oppression, and those newly freed from that oppression wanted them gone.
RobbieGong
09-06-2020, 21:42
The point or argument against pulling down symbols is that nothing of any historical interest/point/lesson would be left.
The list could go on but here are a few of my thoughts:
Many historical figures in Europe had a statue/s erected in their memory, given that most if not all made their money/status through abhorrent practices does that mean we should Destroy the lot?
The Taliban dynamited images of Buddha in Afghanistan, was that right?
In Africa we have Robert Mugabe, Al Bashir, Idi Amin etc should any evidence/artefact from their regime be left for future generations?
I hear ya Guy and certainly not arguing but things need to be taken in context ie: if at the time of a given rebellion against what the people see as injustice, (often longstanding), and have had enough of, feel strongly that the 'system' needs to do something about, (cause that's where any worthwhile change is laid down, solidified), and at said time, height of passions and feeling, those said people attack a symbol that represents the very thing they have had enough of then I completely get that, cause that's clearly ( to me anyway understandable in the context
Your 'argument' or 'point' "does it mean this should or that should then ?" is out of context for me. If there is ever a larger debate coming from quarters saying, remove all those types of publicly displayed statues, symbols images then we look at that IF that time ever arises. If those images represent oppression, pain, suffering, supremacy, domination etc then I say great, get rid.
We have documented history books telling the stories, realms of info online for access, museums, artefacts and so. We don't need such statues, standing tall and proud, proud of what ?
RobbieGong
09-06-2020, 21:43
There's far too many statues anyway.
It's interesting that many statues of Lenin, Stalin and Marx were pulled down in Eastern Europe after the end of Communist rule there. Did anyone bleat about that, or was it OK because a) they were 'bad guys' and b) the statues weren't that old, so not as 'valuable' in some intangible way. The point is the statues symbolised oppression, and those newly freed from that oppression wanted them gone.
Absolutely !
Why not, they stand for the exact same thing and have come from the same exact slave money.
You make a point, by protesting against racism, and what happened to George Floyd, by using a racist symbol as the focus of that protest, which is what taking down the Edward Colston statue was about, as it was an affront to the black people of Bristol, particularly as Colston had been lauded as some kind of heroic figure of benevolence.
The police took no action because they understood the strength of feeling of the people concerned, so allowed it to happen. However, that should not be allowed to set a precedent and create a subsequent 'domino effect' with every other such statue or building throughout the country.
Essentially the difference between doing something justifiable in moderation and taking it to extremes.
Marco.
Joe nails it:
The point is the statues symbolised oppression, and those newly freed from that oppression wanted them gone.
Indeed, and quite right, too!
Marco.
IYour 'argument' or 'point' "does it mean this should or that should then ?" is out of context for me. If there is ever a larger debate coming from quarters saying, remove all those types of publicly displayed statues, symbols images then we look at that IF that time ever arises. If those images represent oppression, pain, suffering, supremacy, domination etc then I say great, get rid.
We have documented history books telling the stories, realms of info online for access, museums, artefacts and so. We don't need such statues, standing tall and proud, proud of what ?
Indeed, and exactly!:thumbsup:
Keep it where it belongs.
Marco.
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/09/council-removes-slave-trader-statue-as-others-pledge-to-review-m/
"It’s a sad truth that much of our wealth was derived from the slave trade - but this does not have to be celebrated in our public spaces."
Nail > head. Take the statues down from public display and stick them in museums, where they're now more relevant.
Marco.
RobbieGong
09-06-2020, 23:39
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/09/council-removes-slave-trader-statue-as-others-pledge-to-review-m/
"It’s a sad truth that much of our wealth was derived from the slave trade - but this does not have to be celebrated in our public spaces."
Nail > head. Take the statues down from public display and stick them in museums, where they're now more relevant.
Marco.
+1
julesd68
10-06-2020, 00:36
I think this debate the country is having regarding statues is going to become increasingly problematic and polarising once the most obvious targets have gone which many are rightly supportive of.
Have a look at this prophetic article from 2017 that was written in response to Southern States in USA starting to take down Confederate statues.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/22/toppling-statues-nelsons-column-should-be-next-slavery
So the question is who's next?
Crowds have been gathering in Oxford to do away with the Cecil Rhodes statue - an obvious target that gives the college in question a big headache in that many donors will withdraw funding and bequests if it is removed. Anyway such is the public pressure I am sure it will go soon as will many statues linked to the slave trade and colonialism.
But what about those slightly less obvious targets? Should Nelson's Column be destroyed? He was and is a national hero for his incomparable leadership and sacrifice against the French. But some will only caricature
him as a racist supporter of slavery and say his memory should not be celebrated.
It's very likely that the current population of Britain would look very different if Churchill didn't win the war for us. Yet some people only view him in terms of some of his views on racial hierarchies which are undoubtedly distasteful today but overwhelmingly popular at the time. But he remains an incredibly complex character who served his country in a time of crisis.
There's an interesting situation in Hungary, where the current Prime Minister has removed the statue of the leader of an anti-Soviet uprising in 1956 (who was subsequently executed), and replaced it with one of the leader of a short-lived Communist regime. This is supposedly because the Prime Minister wants to improve relations with Putin's Russia:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46704111
'The Hungarian authorities have removed a much-loved statue of Imre Nagy, hero of the 1956 anti-Soviet uprising, from a square in central Budapest.
The Nagy statue is being moved to Jaszai Mari Square, a northern location away from the parliament building.
Some critics accuse Prime Minister Viktor Orban's nationalist government of revising the country's history.
A monument to the victims of a short-lived communist regime in 1919 will replace the Nagy statue.
Imre Nagy was hanged in 1958 for his role in the uprising. A pro-reform communist, he had sought to free Hungary of hardline communist rule, but in 1956 the revolt was crushed by Soviet tanks. Pro-Moscow hardliners were reinstalled in power.
The statue was erected in 1996 at Martyrs' Square.'
InThe Sticks
10-06-2020, 07:59
All valid points, but rather than a mindless few causing vandalism (look at Queen Victorias statue in Leeds for example) we should focus on educating some of these people, and yes museums could well be the way forward.
19th c racism values dont cause me any issues; they were of their time and perfectly normal, until they wern't.(you cant look back and criticize at things that were, with today's values...where would you stop?? ) now they should not be forgotton, but people need to remember that was then, not now... and that is for everyone.
we live in a multi cultural society, which for me is a good thing, but again everyone needs to be singing from the same sheet for it to work.
InThe Sticks
10-06-2020, 08:33
https://i.imgur.com/JnIDQTe.png
https://i.imgur.com/jOvYOPq.jpg
My guess is that guy has been listening to hypocrite Piers Morgan who was ranting on about Maddie only getting so much attention because she was white.
InThe Sticks
10-06-2020, 08:34
Well said Grant.
..............................If those images represent oppression, pain, suffering, supremacy, domination etc then I say great, get rid.
We have documented history books telling the stories, realms of info online for access, museums, artefacts and so. We don't need such statues, standing tall and proud, proud of what ?
Hi Robbie, I also understand how you feel/what you are saying and you have expressed one of the main concerns of my fears. Nearly all public monuments (and some buildings) represent (in one way or another) oppression, pain, suffering, supremacy, domination. Removing them is a dangerous road to take.
Taking that path to extremes, do we then burn books/make publication of certain authors illegal?
It strikes me that Israel has taken an astute path in relation to the holocaust, they haven't insisted that all evidence of concentration and labour camps is raised to the ground in order that there is a reminder of how low people can sink.
19th c racism values dont cause me any issues; they were of their time and perfectly normal, until they wern't.(you cant look back and criticize at things that were, with today's values...where would you stop?? ) now they should not be forgotton, but people need to remember that was then, not now... and that is for everyone.
we live in a multi cultural society, which for me is a good thing, but again everyone needs to be singing from the same sheet for it to work.
Just seen this - nicely summarised Grant.
Taking that path to extremes...
Just don't take that path then, simples!:)
Any actions taken can always be moderate, rather than extreme.
Marco [detests extremes of anything].
Just don't take that path then, simples!:)
Any actions taken can always be moderate, rather than extreme.
Marco [detests extremes of anything].
I wouldn't go to extremes, trouble is, I don't believe that others wouldn't (again see evidence of history - some of which is shown by statues and buildings :))
anthonyTD
10-06-2020, 09:35
The death of this man, putting aside his race, or colour, and the circumstances in which he died, was absolutely disgusting, and should never happen in modern society.
But;
There's one very important aspect of the current events that i feel we should all think about, and ponder on for a while, and that is; the worlds Media coverage of this event, :scratch: how many times has this type of situation happend, or similar in America, and infact around the world, but we hardly ever get to hear about it, my point is, why now, the media has always been very good at NOT reporting on this kind of thing in the past, so who's idea was it to actualy allow the world's media to report on this tragic, but seemingly all too often event at this paticular time, where the world is already in turmoil ?
You see, i still think there is a bigger picture waiting to unfold, and its posible that this tragic event, and the natural healthy human reaction to it; by people of all races around the world, is just another part of it, whether its a good picture or,,, i guess we'l just have to wait and see...
RobbieGong
10-06-2020, 09:43
19th c racism values dont cause me any issues; they were of their time and perfectly normal, until they wern't.(you cant look back and criticize at things that were, with today's values...where would you stop?? ) now they should not be forgotton, but people need to remember that was then, not now... and that is for everyone.
we live in a multi cultural society, which for me is a good thing, but again everyone needs to be singing from the same sheet for it to work.
'Normal for the time' will never ever make it right - never.
It is huge from every angle imaginable, the wealth amassed, the growth and power, the oppression of one whilst another has assumed global might, largely on the back of what people are saying has stained and tarnished like nothing else an still evident.
That's because the same might that gained massively from this, didn't just benefit from the spoils and leave it at that.
The very real and most damaging aspect was/is the blatant and subliminal messages, fed to the world through books, children in schools, through the media and other powerful mediums, over the centuries, that has caused serious physiological harm to the way the world, by way of misrepresentation, omission and feeding of mainly negative stereo types, in regard to a people, as opposed to a more accurate, positive and balanced portrayal.
That in itself is where the most damage has been done, blatant at times, subtle too, but systematic and that's what the real struggle, fight and protest has always been about.
you cant look back and criticize at things that were, with today's values...
In a nutshell, yes, which is why these statues now belong in a museum, as they represent the past, not the present. However, they shouldn't be destroyed, as I don't believe in rewriting history, or the somewhat sinister precedent it sets. In that respect, the Colston statue was rightly taken down, but it should've been done differently.
However you have to realise that it's all very well for us, as mostly privileged white people analysing the situation, largely dispassionately, from the comfort of our homes. We're not the ones who've been victimised, oppressed and subjected to racial hatred and prejudice for centuries, and still having to suffer from the effects of that sickening cancer in our society NOW, here in the UK...
With that in mind, therefore, I think we have to allow some venting of justified pent-up frustration and anger by all those who feel that they've been cruelly victimised, subjected to unjust prejudice and treated for many years as second-class citizens, or in some cases worse! BUT, protesting about it should not be allowed to get out of hand, and especially used to create mob rule, thus diluting the focus on an undoubtedly just cause.
If Britain truly was as "Great", however, as the name suggests, then racism wouldn't exist. In terms of colour, we'd all be treated as equals. Justness and equality for ALL, regardless of creed or colour, is the only way forward for our country in the 21st century, and in that respect I hope that the death of George Floyd acts as a watershed moment and a turning point for our country, and for us to become much more racially tolerant.
Marco.
RobbieGong
10-06-2020, 09:54
Those Madeleine McCann placards are plain wrong. Even if those carrying them are trying to make a point that current reporting is just a distraction tactic, it is just plain wrong and unnecessary.
All it does is cause ill feeling and leave a sour taste, therefore detracting, negatively from the point of the protests, which is no help.
The genuine protesters have themselves voiced loudly, that they do not want and have no time for thugs hijacking and derailing the cause and any progress in that regard.
Sadly you always have the opportunists appear, the spoilers, wherever you have large protests :steam: :(
walpurgis
10-06-2020, 09:57
Slavery was not an exclusively black thing. White servitude was common enough, ask the Irish for instance. The serfs and crofters were slaves in all but name too.
Seems the first legally 'owned' black slave in America, was actually the property of a black man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)
also slavery was instituted initially by other black people in Africa long before whites got into it... As I say, how far do you go back; where do you stop.
No-one, well I, am not saying it was right, but in the day it was seen as the norm. The people doing it thought it was the thing to do.. It cant be changed or dare I say whitewashed out. Its a stain the world has to live with as we do the persecutions of various peoples throughout history...The Jews especially come to mind.
As for the majority of statues like the one in Bristol, Im all for removing them, and either putting a museum(if its suitable) or destroying... What im not ok with is trying todays generation for the past .... in same breath, many of todays generation need to have a damn good think to themselves about how they treat people; human beings; just because of their skin colour.
InThe Sticks
10-06-2020, 10:08
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8404141/SARAH-VINE-fear-Britains-future-erase-past-good-bad.html
Worth a read.
RobbieGong
10-06-2020, 10:11
Slavery was not an exclusively black thing. White servitude was common enough, ask the Irish for instance. The serfs and crofters were slaves in all but name too.
Seems the first legally 'owned' black slave in America, was actually the property of a black man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_(colonist)
Whether true or not, none of this is right. It's not an excuse for the sheer size and devastation that was eventually committed and does not mean in anyway that what we're still seeing committed, and all too often, with Floyd George and so many others, should not be addressed and stop - we are in a so called civilized and 'advanced' 2020, not the 1600's
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8404141/SARAH-VINE-fear-Britains-future-erase-past-good-bad.html
Worth a read.
What - you're linking to the DAILY MAIL??:eek::wowzer:
Don't you know that's totally frowned upon here!!:lol::D
;)
Yes, I agree with much of what she says, the key quote being: "It has been a very long time since freedom of thought felt so fragile — or so risky."
That's an astute observation and something that's certainly worth pondering....
Marco.
walpurgis
10-06-2020, 10:23
The Chinese and USSR tried communism and that didn't work, so we are now in a situation where capitalism drives everything and is responsible for everything that's wrong with the world, but self-serving greed is a human trait and historically the megalomaniacs always end up in charge. Money talks........loudest!
It will all end in grief with insurrection and war!!
Just thought I'd cheer you all up. :)
InThe Sticks
10-06-2020, 10:26
should not be addressed and stop
I think we're all in agreement that it must be addressed and it must stop.
It's just how to find the best way to do it.
The death of this man, putting aside his race, or colour, and the circumstances in which he died, was absolutely disgusting, and should never happen in modern society.
But;
There's one very important aspect of the current events that i feel we should all think about, and ponder on for a while, and that is; the worlds Media coverage of this event, :scratch: how many times has this type of situation happend, or similar in America, and infact around the world, but we hardly ever get to hear about it, my point is, why now, the media has always been very good at NOT reporting on this kind of thing in the past, so who's idea was it to actualy allow the world's media to report on this tragic, but seemingly all too often event at this paticular time, where the world is already in turmoil ?
But that's exactly the problem. These things do happen all the time, and sometimes reach beyond the US in their impact; for example the beating of Rodney King, an unarmed black man by the LAPD in 2012, and the subsequent acquittal of the officers involved, which sparked riots across the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King#Los_Angeles_riots_and_the_aftermath
Then it's forgotten about until the next black guy is shot, suffocated or beaten at the hands of the police. Maybe the high-profile nature of the Floyd case will make for real change. Let's hope Trump isn't so obsessed with the 'global elite' that he forgets that black lives matter. Of course, he's got a problem, in that so many of his supporters are, to a greater or lesser extent, racists.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8404141/SARAH-VINE-fear-Britains-future-erase-past-good-bad.html
Worth a read.
Not so. Sarah Vine, wife of the self-serving toad Michael Gove, is never worth reading.
This, on the other hand, is an absolute hoot:
https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2020/05/sarah-vine-felled-by-falling-bookshelf.html
'Ms Vine had, by now, had enough. “Extraordinary how many people on here seem to be so censorious of books and the idea of knowledge. In common with the Nazis, the Spanish Inquisition, Communist Russia - and pretty much every despotic, brutal regime you can think of. Says it all, really”. But Dan Waddell was not sympathetic. “It’s a bit rich for Sarah Vine to get the arse about people pillorying her bookshelves when she wrote a whole column ripping the piss out of someone’s kitchen”. Extrapolating from one photo is fine for her Mail columns, but not for her critics. Can you smell hypocrisy?'
InThe Sticks
10-06-2020, 10:32
What - you're linking to the DAILY MAIL??:eek::wowzer:
Yes, I agree with much of what she says, the key quote being: "It has been a very long time since freedom of thought felt so fragile — or so risky."
That's an astute observation and something that's certainly worth pondering....
Marco.
It came up on my twitter feed, so i read it.
Tbh i've pretty much given up on the MSM to tell us the truth, especially the BBC who are cropping photos and glossing over all kinds of facts.
One example..
https://mobile.twitter.com/socialm85897394/status/1270109187054469132
Theres pics on the net of the guy throwing the bike at the horse before it bolted and nearly decapitated the WPC.
walpurgis
10-06-2020, 10:34
the subsequent acquittal of the officers involved, which sparked riots across the US
The same is likely to happen this time. The victim was allegedly under the the influence of drugs and the two post mortems have conflicting results. A court will probably throw it out. I don't like to think what will happen then.
The same is likely to happen this time. The victim was allegedly under the the influence of drugs and the two post mortems have conflicting results. A court will probably throw it out. I don't like to think what will happen then.
Indeed; especially in the context of a Presidential contest where votes seem likely to split along racial lines to an even greater extent than usual.
Sort of going back on topic, I think there are some good observations here, particularly in reference to the likelihood of localised lockdowns and the potential problems that could cause, on top of all the existing unrest: https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/09/riots-could-break-out-in-uk-this-summer-scientific-adviser-to-g/
Got notions of going on holiday this summer? Forget it, as you won't get through all the riots!;)
Geoff, given where you live, you could be in for an 'interesting' time...:eek:
Marco.
walpurgis
10-06-2020, 11:49
The lockdown will have got all the chavs and hooligans itching for a fight. Trouble is a certainty I think.
Indeed, nothing surer... I'd try and prepare for it mate, if I were you, and stay safe!:)
Also anyone thinking of taking a holiday abroad this year, should that become remotely possible, needs their head looked at!!:mental:
Cities and airports, and surrounding road/rail networks, will be a WORLD OF CHAOS AND PAIN... :trust:
Marco.
Will they start burning copies of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band next?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52992669
Yeah, it's all going too far now, as I (and others) suspected it might...:doh::rolleyes:
Marco.
walpurgis
12-06-2020, 15:32
Will they start burning copies of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band next?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52992669
Things can only be stirred up for so long before there's a backlash!
As i said, where do they stop?
its foolish to do things like this; it pushes their arguement back 20 years.... maybe what some on the right have been hoping for of course.
a sad day
walpurgis
12-06-2020, 15:48
I can visualise the ignorant troublemakers going through online encylopaedias, dictionaries and maps to find targets to attack. Needless to say, they will never actually have previously heard of those whose statues etc they may decide to target and take out their 'rage' on. It's all just disruptive havoc for the sake of it and it will get worse unless it's well and truly stomped on!. (why can't we have State Troopers like the yanks?)
Watch out where you go this weekend, there will be more unrest.
RobbieGong
12-06-2020, 15:51
Yeah, can only agree.
The minority who commit these types of daft unnecessaries, only 'p' people off and potentially undo all the right stuf, much to the frustration of all those pushing with genuine and good intention.
They dont think properly about their actions, believing they are making a justified and right statement, when in fact they're not actually helping :rolleyes:
Not much of an internet search needed - I seem to remember a BBC news item which included a reference to Penny lane/history only a couple of days ago.
i remember people attacking al jolson as a bigot because of his blackface act. if folk had cared to research it they would have found out a completely different sory, and in fact he was revered by black american actors and musicians for helping them integrat into americam mainstream entertainment. THE STREETS WERE LINED BY BLACK AMERICANS WHEN HIS FUNERAL WENT BY... thats not to say his act is now not really something that should be aired now, but people shouldnt just fling slurs around... meant to add that.sorry
as i say, folk just think with their arse at times alas.
i also here that fawlty towers episode, the germans haS BEEN PULLED
walpurgis
12-06-2020, 16:16
It's all down to intent. Al Jolson was (for the time) respectful with his blackface character. It wasn't done to ridicule or insult.
..............
as i say, folk just think with their arse at times alas.
i also here that fawlty towers episode, the germans haS BEEN PULLED
I couldn't believe that they pulled that episode, but obviously it is ok to have Manuel being bullied and beaten in just about every episode (oh well, he's meant to be Spanish, so that's ok?)
walpurgis
12-06-2020, 16:40
They'll be vilifying our war heroes next. Look out 'Bomber Harris'!
Nelson has already been mentioned :doh:
They'll be vilifying our war heroes next. Look out 'Bomber Harris'!
Bomber Harris has been (cough) 'copping flak' from the PC - 'Lets re-write history because it's not a sinister and Orwellian thing to do at all' - brigade for at least twenty years now.
Meanwhile:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/world/coronavirus-live-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200611&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta®i_id=100316346&segment_id=30716&user_id=072336bdef63c6f07ea53826fac9ca7d
'New rule for Trump campaign rallies: You can’t sue if you get the virus.
As President Trump moves to resume indoor campaign rallies, his campaign has added a twist to his optimistic push to return to life as it was before the pandemic: Attendees cannot sue the campaign or the venue if they contract the virus at the event.
“By clicking register below, you are acknowledging that an inherent risk of exposure to Covid-19 exists in any public place where people are present,” a statement on Mr. Trump’s campaign website informed those wishing to attend his June 19 rally in Tulsa, Okla. “By attending the rally, you and any guests voluntarily assume all risks related to exposure to Covid-19 and agree not to hold Donald J. Trump for President, Inc.; BOK Center; ASM Global; or any of their affiliates, directors, officers, employees, agents, contractors or volunteers liable for any illness or injury.”
[...]
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention still recommends that people avoid mass gatherings and stay out of crowded places. But of the four states that the president announced this week as sites for rallies, three of them — Florida, Arizona and North Carolina — are seeing rising virus caseloads.'
Bomber Harris has been (cough) 'copping flak' from the PC - 'Lets re-write history because it's not a sinister and Orwellian thing to do at all' - brigade for at least twenty years now.
He was 'copping flak' even during the war.
walpurgis
12-06-2020, 22:13
'New rule for Trump campaign rallies: You can’t sue if you get the virus.
And every US organisation with any sense will also have something similar in place.
He was 'copping flak' even during the war.
True, although there's a big difference between criticising the effectiveness of his strategy and claiming he was guilty of criminal behaviour.
Most Allied commanders were criticised for their strategy at some point in the war. Patton in Sicily, Clark and Alexander in Italy, Montgomery in Normandy. That's just off the top of my head.
thats what you get for doing your job too well i guess; we would likely not have won the war without him.... Cant help feeling he was a kind of sacrificial lamb led to the slaughter to protect others. Not sure a statue of him was wise tho.
thats what you get for doing your job too well i guess; we would likely not have won the war without him.... Cant help feeling he was a kind of sacrificial lamb led to the slaughter to protect others. Not sure a statue of him was wise tho.
It pissed off a certain type of person immensely, so worth it just for that in my view.
It pissed off a certain type of person immensely, so worth it just for that in my view.
Whom are you referring to? Just curious, as I know next to hee-haw about this stuff!:)
Marco.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Arthur_Harris,_1st_Baronet
'Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Arthur Travers Harris, 1st Baronet, GCB, OBE, AFC (13 April 1892 – 5 April 1984), commonly known as "Bomber" Harris by the press and often within the RAF as "Butcher" Harris,[a] was Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief (AOC-in-C) RAF Bomber Command during the height of the Anglo-American strategic bombing campaign against Nazi Germany in the Second World War. In 1942, the British Cabinet agreed to the "area bombing" of German cities. Harris was given the task of implementing Churchill's policy and supported the development of tactics and technology to perform the task more effectively. Harris assisted British Chief of the Air Staff Marshal of the Royal Air Force Charles Portal in carrying out the United Kingdom's most devastating attacks against the German infrastructure and population, including the Bombing of Dresden.
[...]
Harris died on 5 April 1984, eight days before his 92nd birthday, at his home in Goring.[87] His only son died without an heir in 1996, at which date the Baronetcy of Harris, of Chipping Wycombe became extinct.[88]
In 1989, five years after Harris's death, a one-off feature-length drama about Harris's tenure as AOC-in-C of Bomber Command was broadcast under the title Bomber Harris on BBC Television, with John Thaw in the title role.[89]
Despite protests from Germany as well as some in Britain,[90] the Bomber Harris Trust (an RAF veterans' organisation formed to defend the good name of their commander) erected a statue of him outside the RAF Church of St. Clement Danes, London, in 1992. It was unveiled by Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother who looked surprised when she was jeered by protesters, one of whom shouted, "Harris was a war criminal." An inscription on the statue reads: "The Nation owes them all an immense debt." The statue had to be kept under 24-hour guard for a period of months as it was often damaged by protesters and vandals.[91][92][93]'
Whom are you referring to? Just curious, as I know next to hee-haw about this stuff!:)
Marco.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/firestorms-darken-our-past-those-who-defend-bomber-harriss-destruction-of-german-cities-are-wrong-1374893.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/firestorms-darken-our-past-those-who-defend-bomber-harriss-destruction-of-german-cities-are-wrong-1374893.html
He later played for Chelsea, of course.
You could say he did to Germany what they tried and failed to do to us earlier. Former reichsminister Albert Speer wrote years later, “Hamburg had suffered the fate Hitler and Goering conceived for London in 1940.”
There is no doubt the results were ghastly, and calculated.
anthonyTD
13-06-2020, 09:52
After listening to the latest news on the BBC, seems things are set to get even worse, with today's planned marches, looks like everyone and their dog wants a part of the potential rioting, and chaos! :doh:
Things can only be stirred up for so long before there's a backlash!
After listening to the latest news on the BBC, seems things are set to get even worse, with today's planned marches, looks like everyone and their dog wants a part of the potential rioting, and chaos! :doh:
Never pass up the chance to do a bit of looting on the back of some idiots' moral crusade. :D
anthonyTD
13-06-2020, 10:57
Reminds me of that well known Bottom episode! :mental:
Never pass up the chance to do a bit of looting on the back of some idiots' moral crusade. :D
Lawrence001
13-06-2020, 12:14
You could say he did to Germany what they tried and failed to do to us earlier. Former reichsminister Albert Speer wrote years later, “Hamburg had suffered the fate Hitler and Goering conceived for London in 1940.”
There is no doubt the results were ghastly, and calculated.Exactly and if they'd built as many V1s and V2s as planned London would have been wiped out (unless we conducted some sneaky operation to make Jerry think they were landing somewhere else and adjust their aim to safety pass over London).
Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk
War criminals are only ever from nations which are on the losing side.
"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
Sir Arthur Harris.
sums the whole thing up quite well.
Guys, let's not turn this into a war history thread. There's thread drift, and there's VERY BORING thread drift - and this is VERY BORING [verging on YAWNSVILLE] thread drift...:zzz:
Churz:thumbsup:
Marco.
Yatsushiro
13-06-2020, 19:29
Guys, let's not turn this into a war history thread. There's thread drift, and there's VERY BORING thread drift - and this is VERY BORING [verging on YAWNSVILLE] thread drift...
Churz:thumbsup:
Marco.
It's my ball, and if you don't play the games I like, I'll take it away.
Er no, but the thread's wildly off-topic. Anyway, if you just came in to moan [like you did last time about a link posted to a Daily Mail article], go away and do something more constructive.
Marco.
Guys, let's not turn this into a war history thread. There's thread drift, and there's VERY BORING thread drift - and this is VERY BORING [verging on YAWNSVILLE] thread drift...:zzz:
Churz:thumbsup:
Marco.
What if we say that WW2 was part of a plot by the liberal elite, eventually leading up to the secret plan to compulsorily vaccinate everyone, and that only Donald Trump can save us against this EVIL?
What if we say that WW2 was part of a plot by the liberal elite, eventually leading up to the secret plan to compulsorily vaccinate everyone, and that only Donald Trump can save us against this EVIL?
:D
Yeah, I could allow that.
Marco.
What if we say that WW2 was part of a plot by the liberal elite, eventually leading up to the secret plan to compulsorily vaccinate everyone, and that only Donald Trump can save us against this EVIL?
And manufacturing concerns - a licence fee was paid to Krupps steel by the British throughout WW1 (for use of a patent shell fuse :eek:)
Are we confusing the 'Global Elite' with the 'Liberal Elite' now?
If Trump is not part of the 'Global Elite' and he's clearly not going to be one of the 'Liberal Elite' then which 'Elite' is he a member of?
So many Elites, so little time.
walpurgis
14-06-2020, 08:43
I always fancied a Lotus Elite. The proper one with the Coventry Climax engine. :)
I always fancied a Lotus Elite. The proper one with the Coventry Climax engine. :)
I REMEMBER COLOUR CLIMAX:eyebrows:
I SEE LOTUS SAY THEIR NEXT NEW CAR, WHICH IS OUT SOON WILL BE THEIR LAST PETROL CAR.
another shooting in the us yesterday apparently.. more burning and destruction too.. all becoming silly.. folk need to calm down soon or it will get really nasty.
I always fancied a Lotus Elite. The proper one with the Coventry Climax engine. :)
Nah you want a 'Type 83', that was the best one.
My cousin was going to get one once, in dark blue with the cream leather interior. But his wife put the kybosh on it on the grounds that he already had a perfectly good Escort RS2000i.
This scumbag needs taken aside and given a damn good slap (or worse): https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/man-urinates-next-to-pc-keith-palmer-memorial-as-protest-violenc/?ncid=webmail
I'd force the fucker's mouth open and pish inside that!!
Sadly, I think the recent tension between 'protestors' and police is only set to get worse:rolleyes:
Marco.
Aol dont give options to not use your info or make it far too difficult.. hence why i wont use them alas... who was it about?
Are we confusing the 'Global Elite' with the 'Liberal Elite' now?
You're right. From yer Wikipedia:
'Liberal elite (also metropolitan elite[1][2] or Islington set in the United Kingdom) is a stereotype of politically left-wing people whose education had traditionally opened the doors to affluence and power and form a managerial elite. It is commonly invoked pejoratively, with the implication that the people who claim to support the rights of the working class are themselves members of the ruling classes and are therefore out of touch with the real needs of the people they claim to support and protect.
Because the label is a rhetorical device, it carries flexible meaning depending on the circumstances in which it is used. The concept arose in the United States, but has spread to other English-speaking countries, where the term metropolitan elite is more common because liberal can have the opposite meaning, depending on country.'
Global elite, by comparison, seems to mean those with lots of money and lots of power, with no particular political affiliations. It's a much more slippery concept than 'liberal elite', with many different definitions/nuances, some of them rather unsavoury, as I found when I Googled the term.
If Trump is not part of the 'Global Elite' and he's clearly not going to be one of the 'Liberal Elite' then which 'Elite' is he a member of?
The golf-playing, swamp-draining, wall-building elite. (Not sure how much of the swamp he's drained in the past four years, and the 'wall' is looking more like a picket fence, but he's certainly played a lot of golf).
Aol dont give options to not use your info or make it far too difficult.. hence why i wont use them alas... who was it about?
Presumably this chap:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53040301
A man has been arrested on suspicion of urinating on the Westminster memorial dedicated to PC Keith Palmer.
The incident is believed to have taken place on Saturday afternoon.
Mr Palmer, 48, was stabbed while on duty during the Westminster terror attack on 22 March 2017. He was one of five people murdered by Khalid Masood.
The Met Police said officers had arrested a man on suspicion of outraging public decency.
He is currently in custody in Essex after presenting himself at a police station.
Presumably this chap:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53040301
A man has been arrested on suspicion of urinating on the Westminster memorial dedicated to PC Keith Palmer.
The incident is believed to have taken place on Saturday afternoon.
Mr Palmer, 48, was stabbed while on duty during the Westminster terror attack on 22 March 2017. He was one of five people murdered by Khalid Masood.
The Met Police said officers had arrested a man on suspicion of outraging public decency.
He is currently in custody in Essex after presenting himself at a police station.
oh him... a piss head football hooligan.. cant do anything unless they are mucky foo.... should be flogged to death
The golf-playing, swamp-draining, wall-building elite. (Not sure how much of the swamp he's drained in the past four years, and the 'wall' is looking more like a picket fence, but he's certainly played a lot of golf).
The wall is very disappointing isn't it? I was expecting something a bit like in 'Escape From New York' - massive and concrete with futuristic-looking watch towers and helicopter landing pads.
But instead it looks a lot like the fence that goes around the car park at B&Q:
https://i.imgur.com/A6Q0EPN.jpg
If Trump is not part of the 'Global Elite' and he's clearly not going to be one of the 'Liberal Elite' then which 'Elite' is he a member of?
Well it's not the coiffure's, that's for sure!:D
He's just a daftee who's been 'appointed' to perform a specific task, which I've outlined many times now, and there is evidence that he's succeeding. Like I said, I'm convinced that if Clinton had been elected instead, then vermin, such as Epstein and Weinstein would still be free men, and the former also still alive.
And plenty more such heads soon will roll, hopefully (if he's guilty) one will be Prince Andrew's....
Marco.
It's quite amusing that Marco used a clip from a song on 'The Wall' to denigrate Bill Gates, when it's Trump who's building an actual wall (though a bit of a shoddy wall, as you point out).
Anyway, this global elite are a bit rubbish, really. They failed to prevent Trump being elected, and couldn't even manipulate the Brexit vote. You'd think with a deadly virus on the loose, often lethal for older men, they'd find a way to poison him, and put his death down to COVID (especially as he wanders about the place without a mask on). But no, on he goes, all set to dismantle them (after he's finished playing golf, of course).
Aol dont give options to not use your info or make it far too difficult.. hence why i wont use them alas...
No such issues here, dude. But maybe that's because my email provider is AOL, so I get all their news feeds and updates. Yeah, but flogging would be too good. I'l happily let him savour the 'malty' flavour of my pish, before ending his existence!
Marco.
It's quite amusing that Marco used a clip from a song on 'The Wall' to denigrate Bill Gates, when it's Trump who's building an actual wall (though a bit of a shoddy wall, as you point out).
Amusing undoubtedly, but what has Gates got to do with Trump? They're on opposite sides.
Marco.
Amusing undoubtedly, but what has Gates got to do with Trump? They're on opposite sides.
Marco.
That's what they want you to think.
Ah yes, the cunning double-bluff...
Marco.
Well it's not the coiffure's, that's for sure!:D
He's just a daftee who's been 'appointed' to perform a specific task, which I've outlined many times now, and there is evidence that he's succeeding. Like I said, I'm convinced that if Clinton had been elected instead, then vermin, such as Epstein and Weinstein would still be free men, and the former also still alive.
Who appointed him then? Yet another 'shadowy elite'?
No, the Sunshine Squad;)
They exist to shine a bright light on all evil and corruption.... :carrot:
Marco.
i fear the west may well swing more right wing because of this.. if the us does we will likely follow
i fear the west may well swing more right wing because of this.. if the us does we will likely follow
'Follow'? With Boris and his merry men in charge, I think we're way ahead!
i fear the west may well swing more right wing because of this.. if the us does we will likely follow
https://youtu.be/dogtRHhQ11s
Marco.
its a russia, america, uk triangle
'Follow'? With Boris and his merry men in charge, I think we're way ahead!
So who's generally your 'party of choice', Joe, and who did you vote for in the last general election?
Just curious, as you're rather critical of everyone else's choices and views. Therefore, in the interests of balance, you could do with 'nailing your colours to the mast', in order to allow us to scrutinise your political 'leanings', as it were, and so pin that bias to your future opinions;)
Marco.
i fear the west may well swing more right wing because of this.. if the us does we will likely follow
What does that even mean? Are we talking 'right wing' as in more authoritarian and less democratic? Or 'right wing' as in 'More freedom for the individual and diminished powers for the State?'
Or are you using 'right wing' in the Newspeak variant where it is completely interchangeable with 'evil'? To the extent that I don't know why they just don't just say 'evil' instead. A tribalistic thing I suppose. You've always got to be at war with Oceania even if you're not really sure what Oceania is. Or even if it exists in the first place.
walpurgis
14-06-2020, 12:09
You've always got to be at war with Oceania even if you're not really sure what Oceania is. Or even if it exists in the first place.
Wasn't that the place in the Waterworld movie? :scratch:
So who's generally your 'party of choice', Joe, and who did you vote for in the last general election? Just curious, as you're rather critical of everyone else's choices and views. Therefore, in the interests of balance, you could do with 'nailing your colours to the mast', in order to allow us to scrutinise your political 'leanings', as it were, and so pin that bias to your future opinions;)
Marco.
I voted 'Global Elite'.
Actually, I voted Labour. I don't know where Labour figure on the good vs evil spectrum, but we have an excellent constituency MP, which is why she got my vote.
This, if it is reviewed and reduced to, say, 1m, will be crucial in terms of helping repair some of the damage that the lockdown has done to the economy, and in particular saving many small businesses from going bust: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53038255
Personally, I've always questioned the science behind the [largely made-up] bollox 2m rule, somewhat like the bollox 'R' number, in terms of being truly accurate [i.e. created via indisputable factual data, not massaged statistics]... Therefore, in all likelihood, any increase in risk of catching the virus by reducing social distancing to 1m will be tiny, but it could be the difference between tens of thousands of people having jobs or not.
Therefore, right NOW, at the stage we're at in this pandemic, with cases and deaths continuing to fall to ever-smaller numbers, getting the economy going again and saving people's livelihoods is more important than anything else!
Quite simply: there is no point in living, if you don't have a LIFE.
Marco.
walpurgis
14-06-2020, 12:16
I don't know where Labour figure on the good vs evil spectrum
They don't. Look under 'hopeless', you may find them there.
I voted 'Global Elite'.
Actually, I voted Labour. I don't know where Labour figure on the good vs evil spectrum, but we have an excellent constituency MP, which is why she got my vote.
Interesting... It's what I suspected. I also voted Labour, but purely in an attempt to keep the Tories out. I'm not really a Labour guy. I'd vote SNP if I could. However, I'd have anyone (other than the closet-racist Brexit Party) in power before the fucking Tories!
Marco.
walpurgis
14-06-2020, 12:20
Yes, British politics has become a mixed bag of unappetising choices,
Bksabath
14-06-2020, 13:35
I fear the west may well swing more right wingbecause of this.. if the us does we will likely follow
It is already happening in Poland but there are loads of shades of Greyand we could talk hours about it
IMO quite a few are not happy whit immigration , works both ways, and rather tofatten the German car Industry they ask for change
Then you have the Bickers club culture and associated Red Necks( fill the spacesfor your left flavor of Red _______________ ______________)
One thing is sure I would not go back to the eighties at the time one side wasplacing bombs on the Bologna train station while the other was picking it's targets
But be realistic now and to stay on topic
UK manifestation loads of students are going to get it, I wish them all welland fully recovered herd immunity will go up and in a couple of week they be OK
It seems that whoever left pallets of bricks at street corners failed
(I approve the removal of statues anyone who benefited from slavery should makecompensation)
The economic crash is camming and it sadden me to see so many be drag in to apolitical discussion started by the media easy use of labels
the truth of the matter is that the only ones benefitting from any unrest,
It has been done time and timeagain we are still paying for the will of one Lady to wipe off Liverpool fromthe map,
is the top 5% of the population that either is making money out of it ora bunch of civil servants that have theperfect excuse to blame either left or right rather than the ineptitude inresponding to the Covid outbreak billions wasted on a spy program that failedto keep it eyes on a Level 4 Biological Lab and the surrounding 20 miles
Flight should have been stopped back in February
There is plenty of evidence on the web Even a marron like me could lookat a chart
And see what other countries did, instead we get dragged in to al lootof nonsense
Including injecting people whit bleach, He could have said drink loadsof orange juice so you look like me, a child of tree could have understood that
WTF Orange is so popular over the Pond
I am curious to see the Clinton getting one up her arse
Teresa you got a load to learn asyou did get it and never noticed
Sorry getting of topic
Well if you can use a mouse there is loads of information on the web
Being healthy and taking vitamins especially vitamin D right now couldsave your life
Again, look at the charts the media will tell you that Black Peoples topthem because they live in deprived condition’s
Wake up is it not time that we finish all this nonsense
the only difference between white and black and all the shades in between isthat our skin color adapted to the Sun and so white skin produce more vitamin Dthan a black skin
No matter what label you or the rest of us chooses to use you areexactly as stupid or not stupid as I am
No matter who you are https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fIMkigtnk4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fIMkigtnk4) thisis just part of the facts, all it takes is to type DR Campbell and vitamin D onyou Tube
I know is boring to watch but this topic is months old the tubes about it gotback 3 months or more
Off now …
PS how is Oliver?
Hi Sandro,
Interesting point about vitamin D. Having watched the video, I can see no reason why not to top yourself up with it, especially when the winter months arrive. I'd heard before of the benefits of taking Vitamin D supplements, but having now watched your video, it's convinced me to do it!
What you're trying to say here sounds intriguing, but I don't really get it
is the top 5% of the population that either is making money out of it ora bunch of civil servants that have theperfect excuse to blame either left or right rather than the ineptitude inresponding to the Covid outbreak billions wasted on a spy program that failedto keep it eyes on a Level 4 Biological Lab and the surrounding 20 miles...,
Could you please clarify what you mean above [particularly the bit in bold], and/or if possible link to something that explains what you're referring to? Cheers!:cool:
Marco.
Bksabath
14-06-2020, 14:58
Cool Marco the main thing is and you get it 100% Vitamin D is good for you
One person got it and I have hit my targhet
To keep the ball rolling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM2A2xNLWR4
There is a lot off things I say on the post
Specifically
There is a level 4 biological lab 20 miles from Whoan where they study gues what biological warfare
In December more or less the area was on a black out, not a single branch of the world wide community got the hint
Apart maybe the Mossad Collection
The WHO got caught whit it's pants down
And no one told you to stop flaiyng till it was to late
No one told you to use mask that would prevent you from spreading it because they did not have any in stock and the bulk of it is made in China
The news was out there for any one to see as long as he can use a mouse but stay away from bing
Paste Peak Prosperity Corona and start watching from the end of January https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD3ztjqYGbg
The bit you want is 10 minutes in
All the videos are pretty good BTW and there is much more information buried
Interesting the talk about a super spreader and the fact that there is no transmission of this virus between Humans and animals
Possible genetic insertion of a part of the RNA code is there
No one is telling you to take Vitamins because they do not make any money out of it
Any concern relating to a vaccine is right now wasted to get herd immunity you need 80% of the population to get the Virus and they are not going to sell you one till they make Bilions out of it
Thanks, Sandro. Some interesting info there. I'll examine it properly and comment later:)
Marco.
Bksabath
14-06-2020, 15:19
27894
BTW this is what I have been taking
NAC Turmeric B12 Zink Picolinate Vitamin D3 and Quercetin
Once you get the D3 use anti inflammatory NAC
Zink to change PH
Quercetin is also god for Malaria
But drugs for malaria, funny how it came up again they told you that is so bad for you and that you may die if you take Quinin based stuff
The truth is that they sold hundreds of million of those tablets since they ben on the market same like 70 years whit not a single death due to side effects.
Fact again there is no money in it
But drugs for malaria, funny how it came up again they told you that is so bad for you and that you may die if you take Quinin based stuff
The truth is that they sold hundreds of million of those tablets since they ben on the market same like 70 years whit not a single death due to side effects.
Fact again there is no money in it
If they've sold hundreds of millions of the tablets, there must be some money in it.
Not REAL money though, such as would be made with the worldwide sale of a bogus 'vaccine' for COVID-19! There's a reason why Bill Gates is a multi-billionaire, simply because he knows where to 'sniff out' a profit, and that's exactly why he's developed a mania for vaccines.
So if one 'suddenly becomes available' for COVID-19, I'll be curious to see if he has HIS wife and kids, along with himself, vaccinated first! After all, what would be the harm if it's 100% safe?;)
After you then, mate..................
Marco.
My son takes vit d... At 11 quid a tub its a lot of money a year i guess
I just eat lots of eggs and fish, myself. We used to be dosed with cod liver oil when I was a nipper. Horrible stuff.
My son takes vit d... At 11 quid a tub its a lot of money a year i guess
Probably a mere fraction of my annual wine budget!
Or perhaps your whisky/coffee one combined...;)
Marco.
I just eat lots of eggs and fish, myself. We used to be dosed with cod liver oil when I was a nipper. Horrible stuff.
Never got the cod liver oil thing regularly, although I've tasted it. Like you say, horrid stuff - made me boak!:spew:
Like you, I eat plenty of eggs and fish, although the latter less so since the lockdown, as our nearest fishmonger is 10 miles away, and I'm not a big fan of the supermarket variety. The best vitamin D, however, comes from direct exposure to sunlight, and which at this time of the year I also get plenty of.
In that respect, there's no reason why taking a supplement of Vitamin D during the winter months wouldn't be a good thing, as one tends to be indoors more, particularly if around that time there is a second wave of this Coronavirus, which I think is a virtual certainty!
Marco.
Bksabath
14-06-2020, 16:05
11 quid a tub is what I Pay for 120 tablets of 4000 I.U. of D £22 for a year supply and if you buy bulk they got as cheap as transistors
If you pay more for it it all boils down to use a mouse
Holaf and Barnet will sell you all kind of very expensive sheet that does not work
I've never bothered with vitamin supplements; just a balanced diet and plenty of fresh air, sunshine and exercise. Oh, and the annual flu jab, which is now free!
I've never bothered with vitamin supplements; just a balanced diet and plenty of fresh air, sunshine and exercise. Oh, and the annual flu jab, which is now free!
Me neither, and ditto with the diet, but with CV likely to be around more in the winter months, I can't see taking some doing any harm:)
Marco.
whisky tastes better:ner:
Ha - indeed... However, any sound investment in my health is money well spent, as I enjoy being a fit and healthy big bastard, who's doctor hardly knows him...:exactly:
Especially, as right now, the only tablets I take is the odd Paracetamol for a (rare) headache!
Marco.
Ha - indeed... However, any sound investment in my health is money well spent, as I enjoy being a fit and healthy big bastard, who's doctor hardly knows him...:exactly:
Especially, as right now, the only tablets I take is the odd Paracetamol for a (rare) headache!
Marco.
Did you have a cancer scare a few years ago, or am I misremembering?
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