View Full Version : Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.
Filterlab
24-12-2020, 08:01
Oh dear, poor luvs. I feel for them, only having the few castles, estates and houses left across the country now. How ever will they survive?
mad-moon
24-12-2020, 16:02
Could these 2 chaps not take advantage of the furlough and job retention scheme??
"The two men in charge of the Queen's art collection have left and won't be replaced "for the time being" because of Covid's impact on royal finances."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55424182
Filterlab
25-12-2020, 12:36
They’ll be spending some time at their employer’s pleasure I reckon. :lol:
Pigmy Pony
26-12-2020, 09:04
Could these 2 chaps not take advantage of the furlough and job retention scheme??
"The two men in charge of the Queen's art collection have left and won't be replaced "for the time being" because of Covid's impact on royal finances."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55424182
The problem with not having a "proper" job is that when you've gone, nobody notices. With names like that there may be something for them in the city, something that doesn't involve using your hands. I can't see Rufus Bird lasting long on a building site, he'll soon get tired of being sent for striped paint or a long stand.
Filterlab
26-12-2020, 14:58
...or a long stand.
I get a free one of those every time I go to my local branch of B&Q. Never enough staff on the tills.
walpurgis
26-12-2020, 15:04
I went in there looking for a skirting ladder. No luck. Had to use a six inch scaffold.
tartan paint was an old un.
How about we re-write the above, thus:
I went in there looking for some skirt. No luck, so used my six inches elsewhere
:D:eyebrows:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
26-12-2020, 15:17
I get a free one of those every time I go to my local branch of B&Q. Never enough staff on the tills.
If you get yourself a Tradepoint card you can get a discount, and beat the queues by going in the tradesmen's entrance. Stop sniggering Marco, that isn't what I meant :eyebrows:
How about we re-write the above, thus:
:D:eyebrows:
Marco.
6 inches.. we all wish eh ;)
6 inches.. we all wish eh ;)
It was only a semi....:D
Marco.
Filterlab
28-12-2020, 17:33
If you get yourself a Tradepoint card you can get a discount, and beat the queues by going in the tradesmen's entrance. Stop sniggering Marco, that isn't what I meant :eyebrows:
I had a girlfriend who loved the tradesman’s entrance. She kept ordering me to use it until I’d spent everything.
Pigmy Pony
28-12-2020, 21:47
I had a girlfriend who loved the tradesman’s entrance. She kept ordering me to use it until I’d spent everything.
Hope she didn't work at Poundstretchers, you'd just come out with a load of shit.
Hope she didn't work at Poundstretchers, you'd just come out with a load of shit.
How would you know - have you *actually* frequented such an establishment?;)
Oh, and btw, I asked you on another thread somewhere (forget where) if you ever shopped in Booths in Chorley? Booths is class!:)
Marco.
How would you know - have you *actually* frequented such an establishment?;)
Marco.
nowt wrong with poundstretchers, or the folk who work there;)
Lol - who do you know that works there?:)
Marco.
Lol - who do you know that works there?:)
Marco.
the wife did many years ago before we were married.
Pigmy Pony
29-12-2020, 11:17
How would you know - have you *actually* frequented such an establishment?;)
Oh, and btw, I asked you on another thread somewhere (forget where) if you ever shopped in Booths in Chorley? Booths is class!:)
Marco.
Yeah, I've been in it once or twice, and also the one near Royal Preston Hospital. Quality grocers, and I like their hot Cumberland swirls on a barm for lunch sometimes. They all have nice cafes too, which are popular with OAPs on weekdays. Couldn't afford to do a big shop there though.
Jac Hawk
29-12-2020, 11:20
How would you know - have you *actually* frequented such an establishment?;)
Oh, and btw, I asked you on another thread somewhere (forget where) if you ever shopped in Booths in Chorley? Booths is class!:)
Marco.
Just round the corner from me, it's ok but not as good as Waitrose if you have money to burn
Really? Not been, but I'll take your word for it. It gets a good rep. Our nearest branch is in Knutsford, which we plan on visiting when lockdown is over, then I'll give you my opinion vs. Waitrose:)
Hope you're having a nice Christmas, btw, Mike:cool:
Marco.
Jac Hawk
29-12-2020, 11:59
Really? Not been, but I'll take your word for it. It gets a good rep. Our nearest branch is in Knutsford, which we plan on visiting when lockdown is over, then I'll give you my opinion vs. Waitrose:)
Hope you're having a nice Christmas, btw, Mike:cool:
Marco.
Like i said mate, it's OK in my opinion not as good as Waitrose or M&S so don't expect any higher quality and most of the stuff you get in Booths you can get in Sainsburys and Tesco
Fair enough, but this is the sort of stuff that interested me, their supporting of small, local quality producers, farms, etc:
https://www.booths.co.uk/producers/
That's the sort of produce we would buy, and which I haven't seen much of in Tesco;)
Marco.
Jac Hawk
29-12-2020, 12:14
Hope you're having a nice Christmas, btw, Mike:cool:
Marco.
Quite like most others i suspect, but at least it's given me time to relax, listen to some toonz and watch the obligatory Christmas films, Jason and the Argonaughts, Ice Cold in Alex etc.
Jac Hawk
29-12-2020, 12:20
Fair enough, but this is the sort of stuff that interested me, their supporting of small, local quality producers, farms, etc:
https://www.booths.co.uk/producers/
That's the sort of produce we would buy, and which I haven't seen much of in Tesco;)
Marco.
You're right Booths do try to source from local Lancashire producers, their meat and cheese counters are what makes them different, but is that enough?
For us, yes, as it's not such a common practice in most supermarkets, and that kind of thing (and the quality of the resulting produce) matters to us:)
Apparently, Booths also have a really nice and extensive deli counter? If so, that would be another bonus!
Anyway, I'll let you know what I think once we've visited the Knutsford branch:cool:
As an aside, have you ever visited Tebay Services, just off the M6? Some of the stuff sold in the farm shop is simply immense!!
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g2531938-d733688-r151147735-Tebay_Services-Tebay_Lake_District_Cumbria_England.html
Marco.
Jac Hawk
29-12-2020, 13:17
As an aside, have you ever visited Tebay Services, just off the M6? Some of the stuff sold in the farm shop is simply immense!!
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g2531938-d733688-r151147735-Tebay_Services-Tebay_Lake_District_Cumbria_England.html
Marco.
Yes i go past it every time i go over to the North East, i've been in countless times over they do have some nice stuff
nearest booths to me is penrith :lol: nearest wairose is a bit better at stirling. m&s is falkirk and edinburgh.. one in livingston too but not sure they do food and parking isnt easy for me.. sainsbury is closest good shop with good parking
Was in M&S this morning with Del, just to get a few bits in for Hogmanay, including some Champers for toasting in the bells...
Not too busy considering. Among other things, got some of those spinach & ricotta ravioli you like (as do we) with the tomato sauce. Anyway, that's us stocked up now, so no need to go near the shops for a while:)
Marco.
You escaped Lidl?
Crazy. I thought they had you shackled:D
Was in M&S this morning with Del, just to get a few bits in for Hogmanay, including some Champers for toasting in the bells...
Not too busy considering. Among other things, got some of those spinach & ricotta ravioli you like (as do we) with the tomato sauce. Anyway, that's us stocked up now, so no need to go near the shops for a while:)
Marco.Yeah their ravioli is ace
Tebay services is a wonderful place:
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g2531938-d733688-r151147735-Tebay_Services-Tebay_Lake_District_Cumbria_England.html
Britain's only privately owned Motorway services, IIRC.
Just before you get to the Lake district. Cumbrian Sausages and Mash and Onion gravy just hits the spot after 6 backside-numbing hours on the Coach.
View to die for. Made my journey. :lol:
The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2020, 16:17
Tebay services is a wonderful place:
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g2531938-d733688-r151147735-Tebay_Services-Tebay_Lake_District_Cumbria_England.html
Britain's only privately owned Motorway services, IIRC.
Just before you get to the Lake district. Cumbrian Sausages and Mash and Onion gravy just hits the spot after 6 backside-numbing hours on the Coach.
View to die for. Made my journey. :lol:
Yes many a meets have taken place their to sell stuff, exchange stuff and eat pies! LOL
The Vinyl Adventure
30-12-2020, 16:18
Yorkshire still in Tier 3 which means shop can stay open for people to collect their purchases when they are too tight to pay postage LOL
Filterlab
30-12-2020, 19:37
Tebay services is a wonderful place:
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g2531938-d733688-r151147735-Tebay_Services-Tebay_Lake_District_Cumbria_England.html
Britain's only privately owned Motorway services, IIRC.
Just before you get to the Lake district. Cumbrian Sausages and Mash and Onion gravy just hits the spot after 6 backside-numbing hours on the Coach.
View to die for. Made my journey. :lol:
Been there several times when I used to live between London and Montrose. Lovely place indeed.
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2020, 08:02
We always stop at Tebay when going to Scotland, for a coffee. Even though it's only 45 minutes from our front door (35 minutes when Mrs. P drives) :)
Scotland’s a long way to go for coffee :eek:
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2020, 09:30
Scotland’s a long way to go for coffee :eek:
:D I see what you did there... We'd heard about Grant's new coffee machine. When we got there he was out, so yeah, a long way :(
We always stop at Tebay when going to Scotland, for a coffee. Even though it's only 45 minutes from our front door (35 minutes when Mrs. P drives) :)
Lucky bastid... Coffee? We'd be food shopping there every weekend!
And unless I've missed it (which is highly likely), you still haven't said if you shop in Booths??:ner::popcorn:
Marco.
Booths do a lovely Cumberland ring in a crusty bun :)
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2020, 11:05
Lucky bastid... Coffee? We'd be food shopping there every weekend!
And unless I've missed it (which is highly likely), you still haven't said if you shop in Booths??:ner::popcorn:
Marco.
Yup, post #5519.
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2020, 11:08
Booths do a lovely Cumberland ring in a crusty bun :)
They are the best, I sometimes go in just for that :) Wish they were a bit bigger though, then I wouldn't have to buy two...
Yup, post #5519.
Ah yes, sorry I missed it. Too many posts to follow... Nice one, so in your opinion, it's a bit better than Tesco? Just trying to square what Mike said (reckons it's no better than Tesco), as he also lives in the area, with your opinion from experience, and mine based on what I've read so far.
As I said, I like their supporting of local farms/local produce and the (claimed) high quality of the meat and veg/other fresh produce. Cafes and things wouldn't really interest us, as we're not really cafe goers. What's their wine selection like?
I know what you mean about affording to do a big shop, but if we had a Booths on our doorstep, we'd use it for the stuff that they did better than the other 'main supermarkets' and specialised in, and keep using Lidl or Aldi for our basics.
We don't mind spending money on good food, as for us it's a massive part of what we live for, and we don't smoke, drink heavily or gamble, so can afford to eat well. I reckon around 70% of our disposable income goes on food and drink!:cool:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2020, 11:53
Ah yes, sorry I missed it. Too many posts to follow... Nice one, so in your opinion, it's a bit better than Tesco? Just trying to square what Mike said (reckons it's no better than Tesco), as he also lives in the area, with your opinion from experience, and mine based on what I've read so far.
As I said, I like their supporting of local farms/local produce and the (claimed) high quality of the meat and veg/other fresh produce. Cafes and things wouldn't really interest us, as we're not really cafe goers. What's their wine selection like?
I know what you mean about affording to do a big shop, but if we had a Booths on our doorstep, we'd use it for the stuff that they did better than the other 'main supermarkets' and specialised in, and keep using Lidl or Aldi for our basics.
We don't mind spending money on good food, as for us it's a massive part of what we live for, and we don't smoke, drink heavily or gamble, so can afford to eat well. I reckon around 70% of our disposable income goes on food and drink!:cool:
Marco.
Did you say earlier that you had a Booths in Nantwich or somewhere? I think you'd find a lot to like there. Obviously not good for a big shop, then you didn't want it for that. I wouldn't try to compare it to Tescos, they are too different. Like comparing richer Sounds and Currys. Maybe more like a mini-Waitrose.
Stryder5
31-12-2020, 13:50
https://www.bitchute.com/video/t9vbQXCnrjxw/?fbclid=IwAR3k-VDzrT7-cNT3c0NFGKEgHTrqDX28OvxInhb1qRRaVeaeHSX1C0fg3Ck
Gary
Did you say earlier that you had a Booths in Nantwich or somewhere? I think you'd find a lot to like there. Obviously not good for a big shop, then you didn't want it for that. I wouldn't try to compare it to Tescos, they are too different. Like comparing richer Sounds and Currys. Maybe more like a mini-Waitrose.
That was kinda my view. Our nearest branch is in Knutsford, about a hour away. We plan on going once the current lockdown ends.
We love Knutsford - another picturesque and proper town, with nice individually owned shops and great eateries, so will do a shopping trip at Booths and catch some lunch, then maybe have a nice walk around Tatton Park:)
What's the wine department like in Booths?
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2020, 14:42
That was kinda my view. Our nearest branch is in Knutsford, about a hour away. We plan on going once the current lockdown ends.
We love Knutsford - another picturesque and proper town, with nice individually owned shops and great eateries, so will do a shopping trip at Booths and catch some lunch, then maybe have a nice walk around Tatton Park:)
What's the wine department like in Booths?
Marco.
You've got me there - you may as well ask me to rate their feminine hygiene products. Which are ok I suppose.
Lol... I'll bow to your expertise there, sir, although I often buy Del's (when doing the shopping), so probably know more than you:D
Marco.
Lol... I'll bow to your expertise there, sir, although I often buy Del's (when doing the shopping), so probably know more than you: D
Marco.
I used to do the same for my (now ex-) wife. I was amazed to learn how much ignorance there was amongst my male colleagues about these matters. :doh:
Lol... I know. It's just another toiletry item, no biggie, although as with most things, Del's rather fussy about the brand she uses, and I have to get it from the local chemist, because supermarkets don't stock it, and when she's at work she doesn't have time for stuff like that.
Marco.
Yes - I always bought the brand she used. As you say, when it comes to doing the shopping, its no different to buying loo rolls.
Indeed. Undies are different, even though I know her size and the colours/styles she wears, as she likes shopping for those on her own or with her girlfriends. Wow, even for AoS, this is crazy thread drift!:eek::lol:
Marco.
anthonyTD
31-12-2020, 16:26
https://nypost.com/2020/09/29/elon-musk-says-he-wont-take-coronavirus-vaccine/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/t9vbQXCnrjxw/?fbclid=IwAR3k-VDzrT7-cNT3c0NFGKEgHTrqDX28OvxInhb1qRRaVeaeHSX1C0fg3Ck
Gary
Stryder5
31-12-2020, 16:37
https://nypost.com/2020/09/29/elon-musk-says-he-wont-take-coronavirus-vaccine/
I hope the truth starts to gain traction.
Gary
Interesting info, guys, certainly worth being shared for due consideration!:)
Marco.
So is the "new strain" ravaging the UK? That's what they're telling us the US.
Pierre De Grenoble
01-01-2021, 00:59
So is the "new strain" ravaging the UK? That's what they're telling us the US.
I personally know 12 people in 4 households that have tested positive within the last 4 weeks. that is scary...
Just *how* reliable are the tests, though?;)
Numerous false positives being recorded, I hear.
Marco.
mad-moon
01-01-2021, 01:10
130 new cases and 11 deaths in South Tyneside., as of yesterday, Dec31st...We are now in Tier4...
Pierre De Grenoble
01-01-2021, 01:13
Marco, I appreciate that you are a sceptic but all these positives came from two sources. some of the positives in the kids showed no or minor symptoms. EVERY adult showed known symptoms and didn't enjoy the experience.
Sure, just pointing out that the PCR test isn't 100% reliable, and therefore will throw up some duff results, which is worth bearing in mind:)
Marco.
I personally know 12 people in 4 households that have tested positive within the last 4 weeks. that is scary...
I find nothing scary about that to be honest. If they all died I might be concerned enough to want to know about them.
Pierre De Grenoble
01-01-2021, 01:42
I find nothing scary about that to be honest. If they all died I might be concerned enough to want to know about them.
I'll treat that disgusting and ignorant comment with the total contempt it deserves.
I'll treat that disgusting and ignorant comment with the total contempt it deserves.
Sorry but testing positive doesn't mean much. Firstly we've had loads of labs reporting 100% positive rates when they were at 10%. People test positive when they had it months prior. Test contamination is very bad. The false positive is no less than 2% meaning that the tests trigger positive whether or not they're used. And the death rate is extremely low, way lower than the numbers actually show. Quantifiably it doesn't even appear necessarily that there's been a jump in deaths.
The scary things right now have nothing to do with the virus itself... No ignorance here. I'm in health care, and this is the reality.
Pierre De Grenoble
01-01-2021, 02:04
Sorry but testing positive doesn't mean much. Firstly we've had loads of labs reporting 100% positive rates when they were at 10%. People test positive when they had it months prior. Test contamination is very bad. The false positive is no less than 2% meaning that the tests trigger positive whether or not they're used. And the death rate is extremely low, way lower than the numbers actually show. Quantifiably it doesn't even appear necessarily that there's been a jump in deaths.
The scary things right now have nothing to do with the virus itself... No ignorance here. I'm in health care, and this is the reality.
I really don't give a toss about what the labs in the USA say, Both my daughters households shut down and my partners sisters household shut down and individuals were all very ill. Am i supposed to tell you that one of my girls died just so you take notice?????? really....???? really?????????
I really don't give a toss about what the labs in the USA say, Both my daughters households shut down and my partners sisters household shut down and individuals were all very ill. Am i supposed to tell you that one of my girls died just so you take notice?????? really....???? really?????????
I'm sorry but getting sick is nothing new. They could have been asymptomatic earlier in the year and all have the flu now. In fact that scenario likely is part of why we think the symptoms vary so much. I hope none of your family has any comorbidities that actually give risk to the virus, as I sincerely wish the best for them. I hope they've been taking vitamin D until now. But still this is a normal part of life at this point. All my elderly family members had covid, with covid direct symptoms, and they're all fine including the guy with cancer and my addicted to cigarettes grandmother. Her friend who literally wheels an oxygen tank everywhere she goes and is in her late 70s/early 80s had covid and is alive. The only particularly dangerous situations I can see that are new or novel are if you have severe type 2 diabetes, or you get exposed to severe viral load while no one knows about it (high density population, tight compact spaces, just on the scene).
anthonyTD
01-01-2021, 09:53
Aparently reported Flu cases in the Uk have dropped by 90% wow, i wonder how that could be :rolleyes:
Unfortunetly as you quite rightly point out, people die, and most die around this time of year, mainly from respiratory conditions, due mainly to the change in weather, and i would add depresion plays a part, especialy in older folk, its part of life, many older people stuck in homes without being able to see their family, or have any physical contact is bound to increase the statistics, the whole situation is shocking, strong opinions, and reactions on both sides, what ever your view on this whole afair will i am sure continue well into 2021, hopefully some light at the end of the tunnel soon.
A...
I'm sorry but getting sick is nothing new. They could have been asymptomatic earlier in the year and all have the flu now. In fact that scenario likely is part of why we think the symptoms vary so much. I hope none of your family has any comorbidities that actually give risk to the virus, as I sincerely wish the best for them. I hope they've been taking vitamin D until now. But still this is a normal part of life at this point. All my elderly family members had covid, with covid direct symptoms, and they're all fine including the guy with cancer and my addicted to cigarettes grandmother. Her friend who literally wheels an oxygen tank everywhere she goes and is in her late 70s/early 80s had covid and is alive. The only particularly dangerous situations I can see that are new or novel are if you have severe type 2 diabetes, or you get exposed to severe viral load while no one knows about it (high density population, tight compact spaces, just on the scene).
anthonyTD
01-01-2021, 13:14
One for the Solicitors/lawyers amongst us!
And the reason i try to keep an open mind to the current situation.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/yGkh5b1m550j/
walpurgis
03-01-2021, 18:13
Over 50,000 new infections each day for nearly a week and the kids go back to school. Insanity!! :confused:
Filterlab
03-01-2021, 18:14
Yes, but children are well known to never pass on any illnesses or viruses... oh, hang on. :(
Yes, but children are well known to never pass on any illnesses or viruses... oh, hang on. :(
:)
Over 50,000 new infections each day for nearly a week and the kids go back to school. Insanity!! :confused:
The PCR tests pop positive for things that aren't covid, and can pop positive for having covid 6 months earlier but you're testing because you have the flu...
In other words I really don't give a shit about testing numbers. Their error rate is very high before you even factor in that they don't look for active viruses, let alone covid19 particularly specific.
walpurgis
03-01-2021, 19:42
The figures are not quoted as being derived from PCR tests. If they are wrong, what are the correct figures?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
"RT-PCR tests to detect severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) RNA are the operational gold standard for detecting COVID-19 disease in clinical practice. RT-PCR assays in the UK have analytical sensitivity and specificity of greater than 95%"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext
I wouldn't say 95% correct is a very high error rate.
OK I understand that not all the 74,000 + deaths in the UK which mention Covid on the certificate are solely caused by Covid 19, but even if Covid 19 is a contributory factor, it makes sense to test, take notice and behave sensibly
mad-moon
03-01-2021, 20:00
"RT-PCR tests to detect severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) RNA are the operational gold standard for detecting COVID-19 disease in clinical practice. RT-PCR assays in the UK have analytical sensitivity and specificity of greater than 95%"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext
I wouldn't say 95% correct is a very high error rate.
OK I understand that not all the 74,000 + deaths in the UK which mention Covid on the certificate are solely caused by Covid 19, but even if Covid 19 is a contributory factor, it makes sense to test, take notice and behave sensibly
:thumbsup:
The figures are not quoted as being derived from PCR tests. If they are wrong, what are the correct figures?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
What other test is there that is currently widely used world wide? The world would probably like to know...
There are new tests on the way, but none are circulated yet.
Correct figures? How will we ever know? We won't know the exact ones. But if you look at the deaths for a year the virus doesn't appear to be changing much of anything. I'd quantify that it is a catalyst so there are bursts of deaths that were already going to occur. It's like this virus brought to light the fact that people die, especially those with bad illnesses or advanced age.... and everyone is shocked over it.
It's like this virus brought to light the fact that people die, especially those with bad illnesses or advanced age.... and everyone is shocked over it.
Yes I've noticed that too.
"There is no such thing as a natural death: nothing that ever happens to a man is ever natural, since his presence calls the world into question. All men must die: but for every man his death is an accident, and, even if he knows it and consents to it, an unjustifiable violation."
Simone de Beauvoir
the only reliable figure is the excess deaths, now there's 9 months of data that should be pretty accurate in determining how deadly the virus really is.
Ignoring the absurd quotation, I would agree that the only statistic of relevance is the excess deaths.
According to https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths the number of deaths in week 51 of 2020 for the UK was an increase of 12.7% compared to the five year average.
Of course the question remains whether you believe the ONS or not. For example Figure 7 of https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/september2020#:~:text=For%20England%2C%20the%20yea r%2Dto,years%20between%202009%20and%202019, shows that since 2001 the mortality rate has fallen by 20%.
This is the key stat:
Looking at deaths that have occurred so far in 2020 and were registered by 10 October, 405,534 deaths occurred in England (35,665 more than the five-year average for January to September) and 26,002 in Wales (1,154 more than the five-year average).
So 35,000 people have died in England last year who could reasonably have expected to have survived were it not for Covid. About 3000 per month. Not an insignificant number.
Don't forget those are exaggerated numbers.
I think yearly average vs monthly average is better. Why? Because covid may have taken out some people earlier in the year that would have passed anyways.
In my state the "death count" from covid is supposedly 3.5k. I know it's way lower than that, because I know for a fact a lot of those weren't covid at all. However out of 60k annual deaths how is that significant even before you subtract all the BS certificates of death? We have higher and lower years for different reason to begin with. It's easily within a deviation of the median amount.
The figures are relative to a five-year average, precisely to try to even out annual variations.
The figures are relative to a five-year average, precisely to try to even out annual variations.
But you get what I'm saying about monthly vs annual, right? How choosing a month can be cherry picking?
Also my example was for my state, not the UK. I don't know as much about the UK.
Stryder5
04-01-2021, 09:24
"RT-PCR tests to detect severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) RNA are the operational gold standard for detecting COVID-19 disease in clinical practice. RT-PCR assays in the UK have analytical sensitivity and specificity of greater than 95%"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext
I wouldn't say 95% correct is a very high error rate.
OK I understand that not all the 74,000 + deaths in the UK which mention Covid on the certificate are solely caused by Covid 19, but even if Covid 19 is a contributory factor, it makes sense to test, take notice and behave sensibly
The link above makes interesting reading:
“RT-PCR tests to detect severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) RNA are the operational gold standard for detecting COVID-19 disease in clinical practice. RT-PCR assays in the UK have analytical sensitivity and specificity of greater than 95%, but no single gold standard assay exists.”
Now you will note there’s a contradiction here, the word “operational” implies a “gold standard” , that is negated at the end of the paragraph, because “no gold standard exists”.
So the “operational gold standard” is a false identifier!
There is also a qualification comment later in the article.
“Any diagnostic test result should be interpreted in the context of the pretest probability of disease. For COVID-19, the pretest probability assessment includes symptoms, previous medical history of COVID-19 or presence of antibodies, any potential exposure to COVID-19, and likelihood of an alternative diagnosis.1 When low pretest probability exists, positive results should be interpreted with caution and a second specimen tested for confirmation.”
You also have to remember that items in The Lancet cannot be seen as gospel, they have had to withdraw previous articles on this subject.
The headline figure of 95% is misleading and irrelevant.
Gary
walpurgis
04-01-2021, 09:39
The quote doesn't say no gold standard exists, it's no 'single' gold standard. Read what you like into that.
operational i think suggests best of the tests we have
You also have to remember that items in The Lancet cannot be seen as gospel, they have had to withdraw previous articles on this subject.
The headline figure of 95% is misleading and irrelevant.
Gary
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3682
admittedly using lancet as source
ALTERNATE SOURCE: (not related to Lancet)
"Summary
Analytic performance of many SARS-CoV-2 diagnostic PCR tests approaches 100% at 500-5000 copies/mL; however, clinical performance of testing depends on biology and pre-analytic factors and only approaches 80% sensitivity and 98-99% specificity. Learning more about the biology of SARS-CoV-2 and optimizing pre-analytic factors should improve the clinical performance of SARS-CoV-2 diagnostic testing. If COVID-19 is suspected and testing is negative, re-testing of a clinically affected site may be indicated."
https://www.cap.org/member-resources/articles/how-good-are-covid-19-sars-cov-2-diagnostic-pcr-tests
Good debate going on here, guys, from both sides, so keep it up:)
It's important for alternative views from yours to be aired, and other information considered, which may make you look at things differently and be useful, even if it takes you out of your comfort zone or is an affront to your sensibilities, as burying your head in the sand and simply believing what you WANT to believe, or that which superficially you may find comforting or reassuring, isn't the answer and doesn't help us get to the truth!
Also, could I ask that when submitting links to information and/or evidence that appears to support your argument, that it's not simply just cherry-picking bits from articles that superficially support your stance, but that the WHOLE content of the article(s) in question is taken into consideration, including any parts elsewhere that may question the way in which you've used information, simply to make yourself look right or appear to have 'won' the argument;)
And that applies to folks on BOTH sides of the debate. The usefulness of this discussion (and thread) is *solely* in attempting to get to the truth/facts of the matter, NOT 'winning' arguments, by any means necessary, or simply patting those on that back who agree with you, which serve no constructive purpose whatsoever.
Marco.
Just back from (very wet and muddy) dog walk, ideal time to ruminate over this testing "debate".
This seems logical to me:
R number is over 1
Therefore virus is infecting more people
As a result people are dying earlier than would otherwise be the case
Also as a result, most of England is in "tier 4", with the threat of even more restrictions being put in place
Even if testing were only 50% sensitive and specific (and I trust the scientific journals which state that it is far better).
Then as long as people get tested, take notice of the result and behave sensibly (taking time to consider that they have a moral and social responsibility to relatives, friends and neighbours) then
R number will fall below 1
We will have some chance of fewer restrictions
Fewer people will have their life shortened
Fewer people will suffer from the awful effects of "long Covid"
Economy will benefit (left this until last as a healthy life is more important)
I got home just in time to see a news report about yet another variant appearing in South Africa - the longer we take to recognise the danger , and insist on adopting a macho "don't give a fuck" stance, the more chance there is of even more (more threatening?) strains emerging.
One could ascribe pandemics to the Gaia theory - self regulation of all living things keeping a balance suitable for life on the planet. In which case, there will be more to come.
But that is a defeatist attitude :)
Added to which the Gaia Theory is bollocks. :D
The mechanisms of Gaian theory are certainly not bollocks (surprised to see you write that);
just one (major) example is the balance between animals: CO2 producers, O2 consumers; being balanced by plants: CO2 consumers, O2 producers.
Oxygen levels seem to have been fairly constant for several thousand years - ice core samples provide evidence for this.
I don't take Gaian theory as some sort of magical balance - it is just the result (fortuitous?) of several feedback systems in operation
The mechanisms of Gaian theory are certainly not bollocks (surprised to see you write that);
just one (major) example is the balance between animals: CO2 producers, O2 consumers; being balanced by plants: CO2 consumers, O2 producers.
Oxygen levels seem to have been fairly constant for several thousand years - ice core samples provide evidence for this.
I don't take Gaian theory as some sort of magical balance - it is just the result (fortuitous?) of several feedback systems in operation
I have the book here somewhere although a long time since I read it. I just thought it was an attempt to make some mundane processes into more than the sum of their parts. Seems to be a common criticism, see Dawkins, Tyrrell et al.
walpurgis
04-01-2021, 13:03
Galan Theory? I've only heard of Galen Theory, which had no modern science behind it.
Galan Theory? I've only heard of Galen Theory, which had no modern science behind it.
The Gaia Paradigm
Named after a Greek goddess - "Mother Earth" figure
Perhaps rather than using "Gaian theory", I should have just said "feedback" :)
High host population density = greater chance of disease transmission = more opportunity for "variants" occurring = lower host population density
(similar happens all the time with predator/prey relationships)
anthonyTD
04-01-2021, 13:27
One of the unappreciated tragedies of this epidemic so far is the huge lost opportunity to understand Covid-19 better. We like to beat ourselves up for having the worst Covid death toll in Europe — but we will never know, because we decided not to count properly. In a country that has always prided itself on the quality of its facts and figures, the missing Covid-19 data is a national scandal.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal
The Gaia Paradigm
Sounds like a good name for a sci-fi film:)
Marco.
rmcin626
04-01-2021, 14:22
Scotland is locked down again from midnight
Welcome to what we've had in Wales since before Christmas, mate.
Marco.
rmcin626
04-01-2021, 14:33
Welcome to what we've had in Wales since before Christmas, mate.
Marco.
WE have all been in tier 4 since Boxing Day so not much of a change
Filterlab
04-01-2021, 14:38
Tier 5 on its way.
That means no nothing of any sort, just sit on the toilet and don't move. :D
Stryder5
04-01-2021, 14:43
SHIT!! :oops:
Filterlab
04-01-2021, 14:50
:lol:
WE have all been in tier 4 since Boxing Day so not much of a change
yeah not a lot of difference for me, although excercising car may be more difficult. Oh and i will see fewer people go by the window I guess. If food becomes an issue I shall survive, as Gloria would say.:)
Just had a local learning trust ask if I would like to test pupils on their return
Tier 5 on its way.
That means no nothing of any sort, just sit on the toilet and don't move. :D
And in Tier 6, you're not even allowed to have a wank! [or under supervision only by an appointed member of SAGE].
Marco.
And in Tier 6, you're not even allowed to have a wank! [or under supervision only by an appointed member of SAGE].
Marco.
so whats new;)
Filterlab
04-01-2021, 15:31
And in Tier 6, you're not even allowed to have a wank! [or under supervision only by an appointed member of SAGE].
Marco.
That's harsh. :lol:
so whats new;)
Lol - what's stopping you from having a wee tug? You haven't lost the use of your arm too, have you?;)
Marco.
hifi_dave
04-01-2021, 16:12
yeah not a lot of difference for me, although excercising car may be more difficult. Oh and i will see fewer people go by the window I guess. If food becomes an issue I shall survive, as Gloria would say.:)
Grant. Why don't you get home delivery ? That way you won't need to worry about food any more.
Grant. Why don't you get home delivery ? That way you won't need to worry about food any more.
i do when available.. been ok lately but this might make it harder. ive built up an emergency supply so will be ok if worst happens again.:)
I don't see why the food chain would be affected [bar braindead idiots panic buying], but that only had a limited effect. It wasn't the last time there was a national lockdown, which is where I think we're heading, btw, and there was no real shortage of food.
Marco.
Well it was last time, as we're deliveries. So I've an insurance policy this time.. Like u
I was being kept going by a charity delivery of a roll and soup every day as I couldn't get food. Thanks to the ass holes
The only way I could see it affecting deliveries is the increased usage limiting slots, but that's a different thing from their being an *actual* shortage of food, which there wasn't - and there won't be this time either.
In any case, it's ALWAYS a good idea to keep some sort of 'larder' at home, full of essentials, to keep you going in an emergency. One of the best things we ever did though, and we had no idea at the time just how handy it was going to be, was signing up for milk and grocery deliveries from a local dairy - as they sell and deliver all sorts of stuff.
It pretty much means that, along with our own stocks, unless the supply source of the dairy were affected, we'd never run out of food or essentials:)
Marco
I was being kept going by a charity delivery of a roll and soup every day as I couldn't get food.
Couldn't your daughter have got you some stuff, along with her shopping, and dropped it off? That's what families are for, mate. No way would I make my dad have to rely on a charity food delivery!:nono: I'd not only be embarrassed, but affronted.
And if I lived near, you wouldn't be going short of anything, trust me!:)
Marco.
walpurgis
04-01-2021, 17:50
Boris makes an announcement at 8.00 tonight. I'm betting we get full lockdown slapped down on us, maybe from midnight like the one Scotland just heard they are getting that will last to February.
Boris makes an announcement at 8.00 tonight. I'm betting we get full lockdown slapped down on us, maybe from midnight like the one Scotland just heard they are getting that will last to February.
Yup, and it will make hee-haw difference to us in Wales, as we've been if full lockdown for weeks. Plus, given how things were going, it doesn't take a genius to suss that's what was on the cards for the whole of the country, sooner rather than later!
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
04-01-2021, 18:12
And in Tier 6, you're not even allowed to have a wank! [or under supervision only by an appointed member of SAGE].
Marco.
So that would be the Self Abusers Group Effort. I prefer to go private :)
Pigmy Pony
04-01-2021, 18:16
I don't see why the food chain would be affected [bar braindead idiots panic buying], but that only had a limited effect. It wasn't the last time there was a national lockdown, which is where I think we're heading, btw, and there was no real shortage of food.
Marco.
I don't think the issue would be food supply, rather it would be availability of delivery slots.
Exactly, so then we're not talking about a shortage of food, simply delivery slots!:)
And if all the fat, lazy bastards (who are otherwise healthy) would get off their backsides and shop in store, leaving delivery slots for those most in need of them, then there wouldn't be a problem!
Marco.
So that would be the Self Abusers Group Effort. I prefer to go private :)
Lol - or £20 at 'Suzie's Massage Parlour', with some 'crabs' on the side...:D
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
04-01-2021, 18:24
Hopefully the supermarkets can find a way to prioritise somehow.
walpurgis
04-01-2021, 18:48
There were shortages of some items on the Tesco site this morning. I noticed while placing my (three week away) order, I expect some will be anticipating a rush and are stockpiling. No doubt this will become even more evident if lockdown is announced.
It's ridiculous though, Geoff. As far as I'm concerned, supermarket deliveries are the reserve of the old or infirm - *no-one else* should be using them!
I wouldn't dream of it, not just because I'd be depriving a slot for someone who needs it, but because as a fit and healthy person I'd be too embarrassed to. A bit like dressing up as an old man just to get a free bus pass!:doh:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
04-01-2021, 19:04
It's ridiculous though, Geoff. As far as I'm concerned, supermarket deliveries are the reserve of the old or infirm - *no-one else* should be using them!
I wouldn't dream of it, not just because I'd be depriving a slot for someone who needs it, but because as a fit and healthy person I'd be too embarrassed to. A bit like dressing up as an old man just to get a free bus pass!:doh:
Marco.
Too chilly for socks and sandals, so until it gets warmer I'll have to get by with my pee-stained beige pants.
No change from the norm there, then!:D
Marco.
Filterlab
04-01-2021, 19:24
We sometimes have home deliveries via Amazon; but frankly I hate supermarkets and so does Rose. :lol:
We order via Amazon - who are here every day anyway. :D
Woo hoo! Sue's just told me "BJ at 8pm"! And on a Monday, too! :D
You get food delivered from Amazon, mate? That's different:eyebrows:
Marco.
Woo hoo! Sue's just told me "BJ at 8pm"! And on a Monday, too! :D
Lol - that was a bit random... Seriously? Why not a full 'lie down'? It's handy of her to let you know a time though - don't 'come' too early:D
Marco.
Filterlab
04-01-2021, 19:36
You get food delivered from Amazon, mate? That's different:eyebrows:
Marco.
Indeed. A fairly new service that’s as good as the rest of their services. I can’t remember which supermarket sells via Amazon, but it’s really good.
Great for us fat, lazy people. :lol:
Pigmy Pony
04-01-2021, 19:37
Woo hoo! Sue's just told me "BJ at 8pm"! And on a Monday, too! :D
After she's been dithering for half an hour, you'll be losing interest, and hoping for Chris Witty to have a turn :eyebrows:
Lol - that was a bit random... Seriously? Why not a full 'lie down'? It's handy of her to let you know a time though - don't 'come' too early:D
Marco.
Sorry Marco, was trying to be "witty" about Boris's TV appearance due shortly... :) Relating to the coronavirus thread...
After she's been dithering for half an hour, you'll be losing interest, and hoping for Chris Witty to have a turn :eyebrows:
Suddenly my mood has softened...
Pigmy Pony
04-01-2021, 19:44
Sorry Marco, was trying to be "witty" about Boris's TV appearance due shortly... :) Relating to the coronavirus thread...
:D Witty, ha, see what you did there
Indeed. A fairly new service that’s as good as the rest of their services. I can’t remember which supermarket sells via Amazon, but it’s really good.
Great for us fat, lazy people. :lol:
Lol - I'm not a fan of supermarkets either, but sorry, the thought of some dweeb picking my food for me and having it delivered, with the likelihood of mistakes being made and all sorts, fills me with greater dread! Just not my thang...
I'll come back to you when I'm 80!:D
Marco.
Sorry Marco, was trying to be "witty" about Boris's TV appearance due shortly... :) Relating to the coronavirus thread...
Ah - I wasn't thinking about that!:doh: Sorry, lol...
Mainly because it doesn't really interest me, as the situation in Wales will be no different.
Marco.
walpurgis
04-01-2021, 21:22
As expected, we enter lockdown tonight here. I anticipate difficulties imposing it effectively though, the rebellious and anti-social will probably be even less inclined to cooperate this time.
Tier 5 on its way.
That means no nothing of any sort, just sit on the toilet and don't move. :D
Does that proscription apply to one's stools?
Does that proscription apply to one's stools?
Shit happens :)
Lol - I'm not a fan of supermarkets either, but sorry, the thought of some dweeb picking my food for me and having it delivered, with the likelihood of mistakes being made and all sorts, fills me with greater dread! Just not my thang...
I'll come back to you when I'm 80!:D
Marco.
Well I shall be going out every day to shop locally for fresh food, as well as to get some exercise (it's only a fifteen minute walk). As you say, supermarket deliveries should only be reserved for those who have mobility problems.
I have no problems in getting shopping done in our local butcher, greengrocer or supermarket.
Filterlab
04-01-2021, 22:08
Does that proscription apply to one's stools?
I hope not. It’s for six weeks!
Filterlab
04-01-2021, 22:12
Well I shall be going out every day to shop locally for fresh food, as well as to get some exercise (it's only a fifteen minute walk). As you say, supermarket deliveries should only be reserved for those who have mobility problems.
I have no problems in getting shopping done in our local butcher, greengrocer or supermarket.
We have no shops locally, the one that was here closed down some time ago. A local shop here is a ten minute drive away and it’s a huge supermarket where 1000s flock to. Not great for stopping a virus spreading, or exercise for that matter.
Not everyone has the same local services.
You're in Norfolk though, daftee, primo 'ooh arr' country bumpkin territory, no? So there must be some farm shops around... That's where I'd be heading to:)
Marco.
Filterlab
04-01-2021, 22:32
There’s one, but it sells only meat. Nearest one aside from that is further than the supermarket. Where I live is all nice houses, and a pub that’s closed currently. :D
You must live well into the country. We live on the edge of our village, so can see green fields and go for country walks if we want to. But also have most things we need in the village, fifteen minutes walk away (or five minutes drive): doctor's surgery; chemist; hairdressers; beauty salon; car servicing and MOT centre; a newsagent; a Post Office; library; florist; radio and TV shop, etc., etc. (Oh, and an undertaker.)
Plus, I should have added I'm retired, so have the time to do such things.
More deliveries to customers homes, means less customers to spread the virus in the supermarket. Seems simple to me.
Pretty much the same here, Barry. living on the outskirts of the biggest town in North Wales, and which should've won city status years ago, if it weren't for English bias awarding it instead to surrounding English towns of a similar size!:D
Country walks are a short drive away, but then you're *really* out in the sticks, but a beautifully kept park is only minutes away, so currently our walks are done there:)
Shop-wise though, pretty much everything is on our doorstep, from every major supermarket (and high-street bank) being represented, to many small family-run businesses, and various farm shops within a ten minute drive....
For me, as long as you have access to a car, travelling a reasonable distance locally, if necessary, in order to obtain quality produce, and getting out and about, is far preferable to being cooped up indoors clicking a mouse - even in the current climate (as food shopping is considered as an essential activity).
However, each to his or her own:cool:
Marco.
More deliveries to customers homes, means less customers to spread the virus in the supermarket. Seems simple to me.
Yes, but that wasn't put forward as an argument for having home deliveries.
Plus, many folks suffer from mental health issues if they're cooped up inside and don't see anyone for weeks on end, so if the rules permit them to go to a supermarket, or some such, to shop for food and other essentials, and they feel that they would benefit from the experience, then good luck to them.
There has to be a balance struck between allowing folks to LIVE (not merely exist) and trying, as best as possible, to stop the spread of the virus. We can't all live like hermits.
Marco.
I know someone for whom lockdown is having little effect. He's 'de-socialised' to the point of living like a hermit. Having arrangements with three supermarkets to make home deliveries, and buying everything else on-line, he has almost no reason to step outside his house.
Long before the advent of Covid-19, he expected the world to come to him - including his friends. :rolleyes: I should point out he seems to be perfectly happy with his self-made situation.
Yes I know who you mean, and it's deeply sad, considering the man he once was!:(
Marco.
I don't think the issue would be food supply, rather it would be availability of delivery slots.
yup and as i feared, everyone and their dog was on yesterday scooping the slots. all sites crashed, then huge waiting times to get on apparently. Now, the folk that did this are obviously folk who up til now have been just going to shop, so why change? why take the slots?
Anyways, my back up supply will take the strain
yup and as i feared, everyone and their dog was on yesterday scooping the slots. all sites crashed, then huge waiting times to get on apparently. Now, the folk that did this are obviously folk who up til now have been just going to shop, so why change? why take the slots?
Because they're lazy, selfish arseholes, mate. As I said, if I lived nearer, you'd be short of nothing. Del would gladly help, too. She's always wanted to be a nurse, just like her mum:)
Marco.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/stuff-nonsense-scots-private-school-23260467
Im inclined to agree with him.
My grandson was badly affected last time. The young can't handle this, and it stretches most parents to limit and beyond
walpurgis
05-01-2021, 10:24
yup and as i feared, everyone and their dog was on yesterday scooping the slots. all sites crashed, then huge waiting times to get on apparently. Now, the folk that did this are obviously folk who up til now have been just going to shop, so why change? why take the slots?
Anyways, my back up supply will take the strain
I just checked Asda and Tesco, very few slots left for this area in next couple of weeks. It was nothing like as busy yesterday at 7.00 am.
Pigmy Pony
05-01-2021, 14:28
We will probably go back to an arrangement we had with our next door neighbours last year - they increased their orders from their milkman to keep us supplied with milk and bread, we in turn would buy for them when going to the supermarkets. They thanked us at Christmas with a made up "hamper" of various foods, beers and wine they'd collected over the last few weeks.
We used to keep ourselves to ourselves before Covid, now I get hifi magazines off him every month (he used to own Chorley's only hifi shop before retiring). So some good can come from a shit situation :)
Pigmy Pony
05-01-2021, 14:42
I was surprised to find 'Subway' open this morning, so I went in to get a cappuccino. The guy working there just said "Well no one told me not to open, so here I am".
This lockdown doesn't seem to be nearly as strict as the last one. The roads this morning were as busy as ever. And we are all trading/working as normal, apart from a lady who postponed my job today due to her daughter testing positive.
son was at hospital today and said there were lots of cars around on roads
Pigmy Pony
05-01-2021, 15:05
son was at hospital today and said there were lots of cars around on roads
All I can think is that the lockdown news was so last minute that folk had to go into work to collect their shit so they can carry on at home. In which case tomorrow should be quieter.
anthonyTD
05-01-2021, 16:47
Some more data for those interested!
Again, keeping an open mind!
https://www.dmlawfirm.com/crimes-of-covid-vaccine-maker-pfizer-well-documented/
Filterlab
05-01-2021, 18:02
More deliveries to customers homes, means less customers to spread the virus in the supermarket. Seems simple to me.
Exactly that.
Does anyone agree with me? I am FED UP with 9 months of this virus thing! :rolleyes:
We are in our THIRD lockdown. I haven't been anywhere. My mental health has suffered from boredom and loneliness.
Haven't been able to go for a nice swim in the pool or visit London. Last good time I had was Cheltenham Horse Festival in March when I won a packet on Willy Mullins.
I really can't take much more. How long, Oh Lord, How Long? :lol:
Got a long way to go I think.
Pigmy Pony
07-01-2021, 06:58
Does anyone agree with me? I am FED UP with 9 months of this virus thing! :rolleyes:
We are in our THIRD lockdown. I haven't been anywhere. My mental health has suffered from boredom and loneliness.
Haven't been able to go for a nice swim in the pool or visit London. Last good time I had was Cheltenham Horse Festival in March when I won a packet on Willy Mullins.
I really can't take much more. How long, Oh Lord, How Long? :lol:
I know what you mean - it was a bit shit to start with, and it seems to have been here forever. I'm sick of it. And because it's constantly mutating it looks like it'll never go away. It was exactly the same with Last Of The Summer Wine :(
I know what you mean - it was a bit shit to start with, and it seems to have been here forever. I'm sick of it. And because it's constantly mutating it looks like it'll never go away. It was exactly the same with Last Of The Summer Wine :(
That only stopped because everyone in it eventually died, hopefully that's not a good analogy.
Once significant numbers have been vaccinated should be all over. I'd say 6 months from now.
anthonyTD
07-01-2021, 11:16
Do you honestly think that one vaccine is going to be enough for all that has been done over the last year or so to be undone, your smarter than that Martin.
This will go on until the people decide enough is enough, although i must add that i am slowly losing my faith in humanity, think on this; what do you think all of those people who lost their lives in both world wars fighting for our fredoms would be saying if they could see the situation we have allowed ourselves to be in now on the pretence of a deadly virus where currently anyone with or without serious underlying conditions have at least a 90% chance of recovery with the correct treatment.
I think i know what my ancestors would feel.:doh:
Once significant numbers have been vaccinated should be all over. I'd say 6 months from now.
Do you honestly think that one vaccine is going to be enough for all that has been done over the last year or so to be undone, your smarter than that Martin.
This will go on until the people decide enough is enough, although i must add that i am slowly losing my faith in humanity, think on this; what do you think all of those people who lost their lives in both world wars fighting for our fredoms would be saying if they could see the situation we have allowed ourselves to be in now on the pretence of a deadly virus where currently anyone with or without serious underlying conditions have at least a 90% chance of recovery with the correct treatment.
I think i know what my ancestors would feel.:doh:
I don't think there is any pretence. How many more people would have died if they had not had hospital treatment? How many people do you think the hospitals can treat at once?
What do you think will happen once the population has been vaccinated and the problem has gone away? Do you still think there will be lockdowns for some other, nefarious purpose? What it is that you think cannot be 'undone'?
south of england is past max apparently. scotland is past half way through the care homes vaccination..
anthonyTD
07-01-2021, 12:49
First of all; Stop trying to twist my words to score points, this is not a competion, and secondly, until we know whether any of these vaccines are effective, not only against the original virus, but also the new strain, which could take many months, the lockdowns will continue, i stated well before the end of last year that there would be another national lockdown, you insisted at the time that wouldnt happen, well, we are here again, what is it going to take for people to accept that none of this makes any sense, why do people insist on finding ways to discredit the messengers, rather than read and understand the messages that are staring them in the face :doh:
I don't think there is any pretence. How many more people would have died if they had not had hospital treatment? How many people do you think the hospitals can treat at once?
What do you think will happen once the population has been vaccinated and the problem has gone away? Do you still think there will be lockdowns for some other, nefarious purpose? What it is that you think cannot be 'undone'?
I've no interest in 'scoring points' and I asked you questions based on what you said, I didn't 'twist your words. '
I never said there would be no more national lockdowns, no idea where you got that from.
I don't understand 'None of this makes any sense'. What exactly does not make sense?
I never said there would be no more national lockdowns, no idea where you got that from.
Lol - yes you did! It was in the mod room, where we were having a big discussion about the matter around 3 months ago. I'll try and find your post mate, but you defo did say it:)
Marco.
No probs if you can show me the post - and the context.
3 months ago is well before the new variant came on the scene though.
Indeed, but you and I both agreed/concluded that there wouldn't be another national lockdown, just localised ones. I get that the 'new variant' of the virus is a factor, but that doesn't negate the former as having happened.
I guess the question you have to ask is whether this 'new variant'/strain of the virus is real... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there's been any indisputable biological proof of such documented anywhere?
We've simply been 'told' that this new strain exists, and just supposed to accept it, without question, like we have with many other things throughout this 'pandemic'. Perhaps it's simply an excuse for the 'powers that be' to drag things out, for whatever (questionable) nefarious intent they may have?:hmm:
Time will tell!
Marco.
Does anyone agree with me? I am FED UP with 9 months of this virus thing! :rolleyes:
We are in our THIRD lockdown. I haven't been anywhere. My mental health has suffered from boredom and loneliness.
Haven't been able to go for a nice swim in the pool or visit London. Last good time I had was Cheltenham Horse Festival in March when I won a packet on Willy Mullins.
I really can't take much more. How long, Oh Lord, How Long? :lol:
You're not the only one. And many are much worse off. Do you at least leave your house? Walk around some? Anything?
Now in the US we're facing the most horrendous bullshit ever. They keep silencing our SITTING PRESIDENT. They won't investigate any election discrepancies even though they did a witch hunt when Trump won; that lasted years.
The media is saying everyone is a terrorist/traitor/insurrectionist that is a protester of the election and damning them... after the whole year has been spent celebrating and promoting violence for BLM. Including attacking a federal building. BTW most are saying that the Capitol building had skimpy security and they let the protesters in. They're calling it an attempted coup, but then what the fuck was November 3rd and 4th? What was the Democrat Primary where the people that won no one voted for????
How do you do all these things? Pretty easy under covid and threats of a new virus variant (how do they even know there is a new one when the current tests are WORTHLESS?). What about this new strain appearing right after vaccinations started? Virologist know that you can make new viruses by mixing up rna/dna stuff.... (I can't elaborate but have read it's possible the new vaccine has this potential).
You're not the only one. And many are much worse off. Do you at least leave your house? Walk around some? Anything?
Now in the US we're facing the most horrendous bullshit ever. They keep silencing our SITTING PRESIDENT. They won't investigate any election discrepancies even though they did a witch hunt when Trump won; that lasted years.
Indeed... I'm no Trump fan, but that stinks! However, it doesn't surprise me with the shower who are in power now. We'll see what 'little surprises' they have in store for the world at large in due course, but I have a very bad feeling about it.
Marco.
anthonyTD
07-01-2021, 14:43
First of all, i owe you an appology, as i was a bit harsh in my first response, folk including you know me well enough to know that i tend to refrain from playing the man, and always try to just play the ball, unfortunetly this thread, and thus the topic discussed has become so intense over the last few months that it can be difficult to bite your tongue when its already full of holes from previous bites.
Anyway, i think Marco has covered one aspect of your questions, as to the rest, and bear in mind before i say it, this is not soley directed at you; unless your going to take the time to research the subject discussed here, like i hope many have who have contributed here, and thus consider the posibilities of what this may actualy/posibly be about, then there really isnt any point in anyone including myself in wasting my time going over old ground, spend some time looking at what's being said from world renowned biologists, Virologists, Doctors, Physicians, etc, etc, do it with a genuine open mind, and hopefully you may see a picture emerging that may answer your questions, or you could just ignore everything in this thread, and listen to some music, sometimes i wish i had just done that instead!
No probs if you can show me the post - and the context.
3 months ago is well before the new variant came on the scene though.
Stryder5
07-01-2021, 14:54
I've no interest in 'scoring points' and I asked you questions based on what you said, I didn't 'twist your words. '
I never said there would be no more national lockdowns, no idea where you got that from.
I don't understand 'None of this makes any sense'. What exactly does not make sense?
I’m not answering for anyone else, but from my determination and research the whole “COVID-19 pandemic” doesn’t make sense or follow any sort of logic.
The death toll, while any loss of life is regrettable, is not at pandemic ( people falling in the streets in their 1000’s) levels anywhere. On a list of potentially fatal diseases world wide its about 19th in virility. No pandemics for any other of the listed diseases.
I’m in no doubt there are nefarious forces at bay, ultimately we’ll know why.
I cannot understand how what I would consider reasonably intelligent people can fall for the media rhetoric! You just need to think and reason.
There are so many links to post that demonstrate opposite views to the MSM, but posting them is futile, the bigger the lie the easier people fall for it.
I would suggest looking into our current situation for yourselves, but now your virtually confined to home with media being totally controlled and using brainwashing techniques.
Going against the MSM on social networks now gets accounts disabled.
Gary
Indeed... I'm no Trump fan, but that stinks! However, it doesn't surprise me with the shower who are in power now. We'll see what 'little surprises' they have in store for the world at large in due course, but I have a very bad feeling about it.
Marco.
It's the worst thing for the world, literally.
Pierre De Grenoble
07-01-2021, 17:15
My own personal opinion ( and it is only that) is that Trump's ma should have swallowed and done the world a favour.
My own personal opinion ( and it is only that) is that Trump's ma should have swallowed and done the world a favour.
Congratulations for having an opinion that the media has conditioned you to have. You've graduated their training.
Now explain why you're interested in war and starvation that we're expecting from the next administration? The new hyper-patriot act so they can go full on 1984 thought police on people...
Pierre De Grenoble
07-01-2021, 17:47
I don't have to explain anything as I said its my own personal opinion. I also feel that my statement applies to Billy Boris, but once again that's just my opinion.
anthonyTD
07-01-2021, 18:00
Another good one for the open minded!
Make sure you skip the add!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU
I don't have to explain anything as I said its my own personal opinion. I also feel that my statement applies to Billy Boris, but once again that's just my opinion.
I'm for opposition to those in power, it's just healthy for a society. However I think maybe sometimes sight is lost as to who's in power... and I think maybe in the case of the US you were fooled into thinking it was old Don.
I’m not answering for anyone else, but from my determination and research the whole “COVID-19 pandemic” doesn’t make sense or follow any sort of logic.
The death toll, while any loss of life is regrettable, is not at pandemic ( people falling in the streets in their 1000’s) levels anywhere. On a list of potentially fatal diseases world wide its about 19th in virility. No pandemics for any other of the listed diseases.
I’m in no doubt there are nefarious forces at bay, ultimately we’ll know why.
I cannot understand how what I would consider reasonably intelligent people can fall for the media rhetoric! You just need to think and reason.
There are so many links to post that demonstrate opposite views to the MSM, but posting them is futile, the bigger the lie the easier people fall for it.
I would suggest looking into our current situation for yourselves, but now your virtually confined to home with media being totally controlled and using brainwashing techniques.
Going against the MSM on social networks now gets accounts disabled.
Gary
There's a specific meaning of pandemic which is (of a disease) existing in almost all of an area or in almost all of a group of people, animals, or plants. It has spread over all of our area (the planet) so de facto it is pandemic.
You don't need to have people dropping in the streets for it to be pandemic.
I'm still confused as to what about the current situation 'Doesn't make sense.' Someone help me out.
Pigmy Pony
07-01-2021, 18:13
Who do all those folk going bat-shit in US think was in power? Now that the Democrats are in have those people lost their power? And who has replaced them?
I'm for opposition to those in power, it's just healthy for a society. However I think maybe sometimes sight is lost as to who's in power... and I think maybe in the case of the US you were fooled into thinking it was old Don.
Given the US President has very little power to do anything (he didn't even get the wall built and that was probably the easiest thing of the stuff he promised) that's true of any Pressident.
I mean Obama had 8 years, what did he get done? Clinton - 8 years, and not a lot.
The whole 'President' thing is mostly a sideshow, a distraction. Your country is run by the military-industrial complex and the Federal Reserve and has been since at least WW2.
Given the US President has very little power to do anything (he didn't even get the wall built and that was probably the easiest thing of the stuff he promised) that's true of any Pressident.
I mean Obama had 8 years, what did he get done? Clinton - 8 years, and not a lot.
The whole 'President' thing is mostly a sideshow, a distraction. Your country is run by the military-industrial complex and the Federal Reserve and has been since at least WW2.
Something like that.
I admit I'm not sure who runs the UK.
Something like that.
I admit I'm not sure who runs the UK.
We have more of a 'web'. No-one really knows who runs it or indeed if anyone is actually running it at all, and that's how they like to keep it.
Pigmy Pony
07-01-2021, 19:12
Given the US President has very little power to do anything (he didn't even get the wall built and that was probably the easiest thing of the stuff he promised) that's true of any Pressident.
I mean Obama had 8 years, what did he get done? Clinton - 8 years, and not a lot.
The whole 'President' thing is mostly a sideshow, a distraction. Your country is run by the military-industrial complex and the Federal Reserve and has been since at least WW2.
Ok, what I take away from that is that the same folk run the country regardless of who is president, or indeed which party is in the White House. So is there really any point voting?
"No matter how you vote the Government always gets in."
walpurgis
07-01-2021, 19:31
Ok, what I take away from that is that the same folk run the country regardless of who is president, or indeed which party is in the White House. So is there really any point voting?
Governments and elections are just there to keep the plebs occupied.
The real power and decision making lie elsewhere.
Governments and elections are just there to keep the plebs occupied.
The real power and decision making lie elsewhere.
Exactly! And which is why you have to look beyond what the government are saying in reference to this pandemic (everything related to it), and challenge/question it, as they are NOT the REAL decision makers or the ones pulling the strings, but simply the paid puppets...;)
Marco.
Filterlab
07-01-2021, 19:44
Given the US President has very little power to do anything (he didn't even get the wall built and that was probably the easiest thing of the stuff he promised)...
Well, at least he’ll have excellent career prospects as a builder. :D
The "people in power" often think they have no control because they tend to follow market trends often, and fail to set many of them. I often just wonder if the existing systems sort of produce their own results no matter what.
Pigmy Pony
08-01-2021, 07:23
Well, at least he’ll have excellent career prospects as a builder. :D
The Yosser Hughes of American politics.
Filterlab
08-01-2021, 07:48
:lol:
Portsmouth is a ghost town today! :eek:
Never seen the streets so empty. Hardly a soul out. Just a few dog-walkers on Southsea common.
Most people are wearing masks even outside.
Where is everybody? :scratch:
hifi_dave
08-01-2021, 11:18
At home, in the warm.
anthonyTD
08-01-2021, 11:21
:D
At home, in the warm.
I am staying in today too, after my morning constitutional.
Mostly reliving by betting successes of last years flat season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvZsH3z90Ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9yTI0HeQU
Watch the one in the red cap and green shirt. Always lurks at the back. No Panic. Mystery to me was its abject failure in the Derby. :scratch:
Filterlab
08-01-2021, 11:47
At home, in the warm.
Me too, just one appointment to do today but she lives in the same village so no long trek. :D
anthonyTD
08-01-2021, 14:20
Good one on vitamin D, and its positive properties concerning CV-19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg
Stryder5
08-01-2021, 14:41
There's a specific meaning of pandemic which is (of a disease) existing in almost all of an area or in almost all of a group of people, animals, or plants. It has spread over all of our area (the planet) so de facto it is pandemic.
You don't need to have people dropping in the streets for it to be pandemic.
I'm still confused as to what about the current situation 'Doesn't make sense.' Someone help me out.
The worlds Governments response to what is being termed as a “pandemic”, where by fear is induced by psychological means. By manipulation of data that indeed creates a scenario where it appears “people are dropping in the streets” and the worlds medical institutions can’t cope!
The WHO’s worlds media briefing 11/03/2020:
“Pandemic is not a word to use lightly or carelessly. It is a word that, if misused, can cause unreasonable fear, or unjustified acceptance that the fight is over, leading to unnecessary suffering and death.”
So to reiterate what “Doesn’t make sense” is why the worlds leaders are propagating exactly what the WHO identified as a potential issue early 2020.
So to try and make sense of our current situation we need to find out why or what is behind existing responses.
If our current predicament and responses make sense, I can’t see it. So bear with me and lead me to enlightenment.
Gary.
Good one on vitamin D, and its positive properties concerning CV-19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg
Thanks Anthony. Just had me half tablet of Vitatmin C with Zinc, A teaspoon of Epsom salts with Magnesium. And a teaspoon of Cod Liver Oil.
TBH, It's made me feel sick! Awful stuff Cod Liver Oil. But no pain, no gain,eh? :rolleyes:
Thanks Anthony. Just had me half tablet of Vitatmin C with Zinc, A teaspoon of Epsom salts with Magnesium. And a teaspoon of Cod Liver Oil.
TBH, It's made me feel sick! Awful stuff Cod Liver Oil. But no pain, no gain,eh? :rolleyes:
I used to be given cod liver oil as a child, and ended up liking it - but then I like Marmite as well! :lol:
walpurgis
08-01-2021, 17:32
I used to be given cod liver oil as a child, and ended up liking it - but then I like Marmite as well! :lol:
Bet you had malt extract too. :)
Desperate times call for desperate measures! :scratch:
Anybody remember those yummy Haliborange tablets?
What about the old Malt Extract? Full of B vitamins IIRC. I used to quite like it:
https://www.boots.com/boots-malt-extract-and-cod-liver-oil---650g-10270028
An expedition to Boots tomorrow I think. :lol:
Always have a multivit and a vit D tablet with breakfast. Been doing that for years, I just order them on line, none of this pissing about with going to the shops.
Don't know if it does any good but the way I see it, it can't do any harm. And the vets reckon most people in Northern Europe are vit D deficient as there's just not enough sunshine and even when there is we're often indoors working.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/08/sadiq-khan-declares-covid-emergency-in-london
Oh dear, not good.
walpurgis
08-01-2021, 19:04
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/08/sadiq-khan-declares-covid-emergency-in-london
Oh dear, not good.
Khan may well be justified, but I just don't like self promoting publicity hounds like him and Burnham.
I have never seen the news looking worse.
And yet we kept Schools and Universities open.
That was a rank bad idea wasn't it?
Schools are famous for spreading germs. We all knew this. :scratch:
We were down to 10 cases a week in Portsmouth (population around 200,000) in August Now it's about 1300!
About 1/4 of the people in my supermarket don't wear facemasks. Staff are not allowed to say anything.
Where are the Cops who are meant to make people behave themselves?
I think the government should explain this mess.
mad-moon
08-01-2021, 19:32
https://youtu.be/uZF82buIAdQ
That cheered me up! Stay in the effing hoose or we are all going to die! Simple as that. :lol:
I have never seen the news looking worse.
And yet we kept Schools and Universities open.
That was a rank bad idea wasn't it?
Schools are famous for spreading germs. We all knew this. :scratch:
We were down to 10 cases a week in Portsmouth (population around 200,000) in August Now it's about 1300!
About 1/4 of the people in my supermarket don't wear facemasks. Staff are not allowed to say anything.
Where are the Cops who are meant to make people behave themselves?
I think the government should explain this mess.
There are no known cases of children passing it to adults.
Cases are going up in London (who knows how many are false positives, could be extreme) but are deaths? Hospitals are always burdened in winter...
mad-moon
08-01-2021, 20:27
There are no known cases of children passing it to adults.
Cases are going up in London (who knows how many are false positives, could be extreme) but are deaths? Hospitals are always burdened in winter...
That might be the case for children under 10 years old...but they are still children right up until their 18th birthday in this country..that's senior school children..and then off to college for another 2-3 years..then maybe off to university....all conditions where hundreds of kids/young adults get together...Do you think they'll be social distancing..the answer is no they are not..They are contracting the disease and taking it home to their families, in a lot of cases...
Filterlab
08-01-2021, 20:44
Where are the Cops who are meant to make people behave themselves?
Standing in hedgerows with speed cameras.
Part of the problem in gathering data to prove, or disprove, whether "children" pass on the virus is that so few children have been tested for Covid - if they are asymptomatic (infected but not showing signs of infection), they have not been tested. This may change when schools reopen and each child has a regular test.
Filterlab
08-01-2021, 20:49
Ahhh, here are the moron police.
https://apple.news/AnYV4qPVXTQ-ZJsd6JJnaIw
I’ve completely lost respect for the police now. They’ve behaved stupidly and like the power-hungry tossers they are during this palaver. Going from extreme to extreme. What next? Shooting dead people in the street?
Ahhh, here are the moron police.
https://apple.news/AnYV4qPVXTQ-ZJsd6JJnaIw
I’ve completely lost respect for the police now. They’ve behaved stupidly and like the power-hungry tossers they are during this palaver. Going from extreme to extreme. What next? Shooting dead people in the street?
Linky no worky, dude, unless you're signed into 'Apple News'...
Marco.
Filterlab
08-01-2021, 20:58
Oh, you’ll need the app then. Should be on your Mac unless it’s out of date.
The gist is that police surrounded two ladies out for a walk and fined them. Plus they weren’t allowed their flask of coffee as it’s “classed as a picnic”.
Is that the same lot who used drones to spy on people exercising their dogs? :doh:
https://youtu.be/uZF82buIAdQ
:lol:
Filterlab
08-01-2021, 21:59
Is that the same lot who used drones to spy on people exercising their dogs? :doh:
Yep. Clearly there's nothing real for them to do in Derbyshire.
Here's the story on the BBC about those heavy-handed Derbyshire Cops! :eek:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814
They look like a nice couple of girls to me. I'd be more interested in getting their phone numbers than issuing tickets if I was PC Plod. :lol:
Awful night for me. Whose idea was Vitamin D? I think my bottle of Cod Liver Oil had gone off. I have been trying to throw up all night, without success.
Haven't talked to God on the big white telephone since my 21st birthday. "Oh God, I'll never drink again!" :D
That might be the case for children under 10 years old...but they are still children right up until their 18th birthday in this country..that's senior school children..and then off to college for another 2-3 years..then maybe off to university....all conditions where hundreds of kids/young adults get together...Do you think they'll be social distancing..the answer is no they are not..They are contracting the disease and taking it home to their families, in a lot of cases...
Ya, high schoolers are harder to say with.
However universities seem like a good way to get higher herd immunity with a demographic that isn't at risk, and the infrastructure is free. The only concern really is them coming home, as they don't shop during special shopping hours for vulnerable people (or at all if they eat at cafeterias and live in dorms).
anthonyTD
09-01-2021, 11:02
:eek: Sorry, Guilty as charged, must have been the cod liver oil,;) the big white telephone bit made me chuckle, i remember everything i got drunk on when i was a youngster, and thus had many phone conversations! :lol:
Here's the story on the BBC about those heavy-handed Derbyshire Cops! :eek:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55560814
They look like a nice couple of girls to me. I'd be more interested in getting their phone numbers than issuing tickets if I was PC Plod. :lol:
Awful night for me. Whose idea was Vitamin D? I think my bottle of Cod Liver Oil had gone off. I have been trying to throw up all night, without success.
Haven't talked to God on the big white telephone since my 21st birthday. "Oh God, I'll never drink again!" :D
Trump now permanently suspended from Twitter.
walpurgis
09-01-2021, 11:31
Trump now permanently suspended from Twitter.
Apparently he's now bleating from the White House account. :rolleyes:
Trump now permanently suspended from Twitter.
He's going to end up getting suspended from America.
Maybe we will take him in here, like we did with Pinochet.
anthonyTD
09-01-2021, 11:38
Its quite worrying when araguably the most powerful man in the world can and has been banned from Facebook and Twitter :doh:
Just goes to show how powerful big tech has become, and another reason we should be wary of the direction we are being taken :rolleyes:
walpurgis
09-01-2021, 11:42
I get visions of him and his horde of redneck Republican illiterates advancing on the Senate on Inauguration Day to claim the country! No doubt he would lead from the rear.
I get visions of him and his horde of redneck Republican illiterates advancing on the Senate on Inauguration Day to claim the country! No doubt he would lead from the rear.
as all good generals do;) usually 20 miles behind
as all good generals do;) usually 20 miles behind
Unless it isn't possible to be 20 miles behind:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Aloysius_Kenna
hifi_dave
09-01-2021, 15:40
Its quite worrying when araguably the most powerful man in the world can and has been banned from Facebook and Twitter :doh:
Just goes to show how powerful big tech has become, and another reason we should be wary of the direction we are being taken :rolleyes:
Yet they refuse to deal with bullying and paedophiles etc..:scratch:
Indeed... I won't answer that here, Dave, but have a good think as to WHY that is...?
Remember how long it took for the BBC and mainstream media to expose Saville as a paedo [yet *they knew* and covered it up for years]... Pretty much until he was dead, and therefore unable to be procecuted, and more importantly, name those in very high places who had supported and protected him.
There's a clue;)
Marco.
Its quite worrying when araguably the most powerful man in the world can and has been banned from Facebook and Twitter :doh:
Just goes to show how powerful big tech has become, and another reason we should be wary of the direction we are being taken :rolleyes:
Precisely!! And which is why we ensure that it has the least impact possible on our lives, and control over it.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
09-01-2021, 16:09
He's going to end up getting suspended from America.
Maybe we will take him in here, like we did with Pinochet.
Well they did get Tracey Ullman, it's time we got something back.
Well they did get Tracey Ullman, it's time we got something back.
She was great with Neil Kinnock
I could be wrong on this, but a terrific bit of fun I discovered tonight, and we need this:
https://youtu.be/MMRVbhbIkjk
Who says the Classics are Square?
Pigmy Pony
10-01-2021, 07:50
She was great with Neil Kinnock
Brighton Beach was even better.
Soz, don't have a scooby wot yooz are twittering on aboot...:scratch:
Marco.
Kinnock and Ullman were paired on a pop video back in the 80’s. Don't know about Brighton Beach though? Carry on regardless.
Oh right, thanks. Don't remember that... Instantly forgettable, I guess!:D
Piggurs can reveal the Brighton beach thing...
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
10-01-2021, 09:10
https://youtu.be/V58dOl84MaI
I hope you realise that making me do this is keeping me from me breakfast :(
Your next prime minister is..... Maybe not !. How did I forget that
https://youtu.be/V58dOl84MaI
I hope you realise that making me do this is keeping me from me breakfast :(
Lol - still don't get the relevance of that (rather obscure video) to the discussion about Ullman...? Not to worry, and anyway I thought you'd learned how to embed YT videos?:ner:;)
Marco.
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