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anthonyTD
26-11-2020, 18:09
Dr. Stefan Lanka is the king in this area. He is a German biologist and virologist who came to understand we have been lied to on a grand scale regarding the nature of the virus. He offered a reward of €100,000 for anyone who could scientifically prove that measles was a virus. That case that went all the way to the German Supreme Court where he won. Paul Fassa reports:
“At first it appeared he had lost. But Dr. Lanka took his loss to a higher court with more experts and the backing of two independent laboratories. He wound up not having to pay. It turned out that the “proof” provided was a composite of several different electron microscope images. And the composite involved different components of damaged cells. The composite could not be duplicated. The German Federal Supreme Court confirmed that there was not enough evidence to prove the existence of the measles virus.”
“In a recent ruling, judges at the German Federal Supreme Court (BGH) confirmed that the measles virus does not exist.
Measles and Rubella are virus's according to everyone i know including the WHO. sorry but im out of this now. its becoming odd....
he is a crank...
No, German ‘supreme court’ didn’t rule that ‘measles doesn’t exist’
11:49 | 22nd May 2019 (GMT)
A number of posts shared on Facebook claim that biologist and prominent anti-vaccination activist Dr Stefan Lanka won a 2016 case in the German federal supreme court that confirmed there is no evidence the measles virus exists.
Anti-vaccination movements and vaccine hesitancy are linked to increased outbreaks of measles in both wealthier countries, and poorer countries such as South Africa.
Most of the posts link to similar articles, mostly published on junk news and quack health websites such as News Punch, Anon HQ, Vaccine Impact and Natural Blaze. Some say the Anon HQ article was the original account of Lanka’s court case.
That article says Lanka offered a reward of €100,000 for “scientific proof of the existence of the alleged measles virus”. He had reportedly lost the bet and was ordered to pay up by a regional court.
But a higher regional court in Stuttgart “with more experts and the backing of two independent laboratories” ruled that the authors of the six publications which were submitted to prove the existence of the measles virus were all wrong, the article says.
It then claims that “as a direct result all measles virologists are still wrong today”. It also says the judgement was upheld by Germany’s federal supreme court.
Higher court ruling didn’t question existence of measles virus
But the article makes a number of misinformed claims. The first is that the courts ruled Lanka had won the bet. According to independent pharmaceutical journal DAZonline, the higher regional court judges in Stuttgart, where Lanka filed his appeal in 2016, did not doubt the existence of the virus.
But they did say Lanka’s challenge was neither a bet nor a competition but an award. And only the promoter of the award, Lanka, could determine the rules and decide if its criteria had been met.
anthonyTD
26-11-2020, 18:37
Where's the proof he's a crank ? all i see here is another alternative view, which anyone could have written in an effort to discredit him.
he is a crank...
No, German ‘supreme court’ didn’t rule that ‘measles doesn’t exist’
11:49 | 22nd May 2019 (GMT)
A number of posts shared on Facebook claim that biologist and prominent anti-vaccination activist Dr Stefan Lanka won a 2016 case in the German federal supreme court that confirmed there is no evidence the measles virus exists.
Anti-vaccination movements and vaccine hesitancy are linked to increased outbreaks of measles in both wealthier countries, and poorer countries such as South Africa.
Most of the posts link to similar articles, mostly published on junk news and quack health websites such as News Punch, Anon HQ, Vaccine Impact and Natural Blaze. Some say the Anon HQ article was the original account of Lanka’s court case.
That article says Lanka offered a reward of €100,000 for “scientific proof of the existence of the alleged measles virus”. He had reportedly lost the bet and was ordered to pay up by a regional court.
But a higher regional court in Stuttgart “with more experts and the backing of two independent laboratories” ruled that the authors of the six publications which were submitted to prove the existence of the measles virus were all wrong, the article says.
It then claims that “as a direct result all measles virologists are still wrong today”. It also says the judgement was upheld by Germany’s federal supreme court.
Higher court ruling didn’t question existence of measles virus
But the article makes a number of misinformed claims. The first is that the courts ruled Lanka had won the bet. According to independent pharmaceutical journal DAZonline, the higher regional court judges in Stuttgart, where Lanka filed his appeal in 2016, did not doubt the existence of the virus.
But they did say Lanka’s challenge was neither a bet nor a competition but an award. And only the promoter of the award, Lanka, could determine the rules and decide if its criteria had been met.
The problem, and I'm not saying Grant is guilty of this, is that it's very easy to apportion 'proof' of anything as affirmation of your bias or belief system, and therefore in the absence of REAL and indisputable proof, so-and-so, or this and that, which doesn't 'fit' with your belief system, is automatically dismissed as 'cranky', a 'conspiracy theory' or whatever.
Often the very last thing people will do is entertain anything they fear or that takes them wildly outside of their comfort zone [cognitive dissonance] - but that doesn't mean it isn't real!;)
Marco.
“In a recent ruling, judges at the German Federal Supreme Court (BGH) confirmed that the measles virus does not exist.''
No they didn't. The ruling confirmed the regional court's decision that in German law, if you offer a prize for proving something, only you get to decide whether or not the proof has been presented.
I don't know what the source of your quote is but if they would so blatantly lie about that then I would not trust anything else that they say.
anthonyTD
26-11-2020, 19:14
The comfort zone that we have been in for many decades has been a lie, according to many Alternative but equaly brilliant minds, i know its futile to even get some folk to think that we have been duped, fooled, whatever label you want to use to describe what's going on, and what has been going on for decades, [who was it who said "Its easier to fool someone, than to prove to them they have been fooled"] but i sincerely believe the more [calm and considerate] debates and chalenges people participate in concerning the situation we find ourselves in at the moment, can only be a good thing.
The problem, and I'm not saying Grant is guilty, is that it's very easy to apportion 'proof' of anything as affirmation of your bias or belief system, and therefore in the absence of REAL proof, so-and-so, or this and that, which doesn't 'fit' with your belief system, is automatically dismissed as 'cranky', a 'conspiracy theory' or whatever.
Often the very last thing people will do is entertain anything that they fear or takes them wildly outside of the comfort zone - but that doesn't mean it isn't real!;)
Marco.
anthonyTD
26-11-2020, 19:17
If you find the proof of what you allude to here, i will accept your point!
No they didn't. The ruling confirmed the regional court's decision that in German law, if you offer a prize for proving something, only you get to decide whether or not the proof has been presented.
I don't know what the source of your quote is but if they would so blatantly lie about that then I would not trust anything else that they say.
who was it who said "Its easier to fool someone, than to prove to them they have been fooled"
Indeed, and considering the situation we're currently all in, most apt!
Marco.
Mikeandvan
26-11-2020, 19:28
No disrespect to anyone with relatives sick due to Covid, but this lockdown is feeling increasingly dubious. I am sick and tired of the pantomime mask wearing, forgetting to put it on and then having to go back and get it, and it feeling slightly ridiculous, as if the pandemic were proper deadly to the majority, rather than just being something akin to the flu. I reckon next year when the economic stats start to roll in, when the effect of the shut down of the entertainment industry takes effect, when many businesses possibly shut for good, then we'll see whether it was all worth it. Add Brexit to the depressing picture, possibly a downgrade on UK's credit rating, and things start to look seriously shaky. If this pandemic were proper deadly, you would not have to tell people what precautions to take, they would gladly stay at home, or take serious care about not contacting the virus when outside. The entertainment industry - clubs, gigs, festivals, are going to be closed for God knows how long, social distancing measures in pubs and restaurants are going to cut their takings. I've already cancelled my gym membership, and am looking for other ways to exercise, like swimming in the sea - I live only a few minutes from it, scary as hell this time of year due to the cold, but if I take to it, and buy some weights for home, then bollocks to the gym. My point is once people find alternatives they may well stick with them. The only thing that will thrive is Amazon and other online market places, and delivery companies, be it food or parcels, but they'll be screwed once/if drones are given the green light. I see a new normal figure of unemployment around 6 million.
Good post, Mike. Hear, hear! I particularly agree with this:
If this pandemic were proper deadly, you would not have to tell people what precautions to take, they would gladly stay at home, or take serious care about not contacting the virus when outside.
Spot on - and that would include me!
Marco.
I think you folks really ought to lighten up on Covid. Horrible problem. But I love my older rellies and they are running scared. Even some of the young ones with bad lungs.
Never ascribe to malice that which is more reasonably explained by incompetence.
Personally at 66 and reasonably fit and slim and eating me Nuts, I fancy my chances. What we are doing in the UK is just hanging on for the Vaccine. 6 months of boredom and it'll all be Happy Days again.
I've been thrown onto the dispiriting Dole often enough. I just asked myself what I could do with no money. And lots of time. Tidied up the Flat. Got Peggy Lee Jazz records from the Library. Read the Russians. Cleaned the windows. Made lots of friends who were similarly struggling.
Adapt. This is nothing. :lol:
anthonyTD
26-11-2020, 20:31
:)
Personally at 66 and reasonably fit and slim and eating me Nuts, I fancy my chances. What we are doing in the UK is just hanging on for the Vaccine. 6 months of boredom and it'll all be Happy Days again.
I've been thrown onto the dispiriting Dole often enough. I just asked myself what I could do with no money. And lots of time. Tidied up the Flat. Got Peggy Lee Jazz records from the Library. Read the Russians. Cleaned the windows. Made lots of friends who were similarly struggling.
Adapt. This is nothing. :lol:
anthonyTD
26-11-2020, 20:48
I think its time for a reality check at this point, i don't think anyone who is currently contributing to this thread including myself is saying that people aren't getting ill, [i have already experienced the affects of this illness, and its taken me month's to recover] what some of us are disputing is the reason given behind the illness, and thus the drastic measures taken in response to it.
From my point of view, if something doesent fit right with your current understanding, go do your own research, you may find yourself reading stuff that makes you uncomfortable at times, but it can also lead you to places that open your mind to new realities.
All knowledge is good!
If you find the proof of what you allude to here, i will accept your point!
Article from Die Spiegal here which actually quotes the judge making it clear https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/masern-wette-impfgegner-muss-nicht-zahlen-a-1077601.html
Lanka, however, did not want to pay, the case went to court. At first instance, the District Court ordered Ravensburg Lanka to transfer the sum. It was a "seriously meant binding reward promise," according to section 657 of the Civil Code. The anti-vaccination campaigner then called the next instance - the Higher Regional Court of Stuttgart.
She agreed with the anti-vaccination campaigner, for formal reasons. The promoter had wished for a single piece of evidence, but the applicant had provided several publications which provided evidence only in sum. Therefore, "the vocation is essentially granted."
However, this is by no means to be understood as confirmation of Lanka's theories, the court said: it is by no means "believed that a measles virus does not exist." And addressed to the members of the press present, the presiding judge said: "Watch out with your headlines."
anthonyTD
26-11-2020, 21:48
Point accepted, however the Regional Court desision, and the reasoning behind it is still worth noting! :)
Article from Die Spiegal here which actually quotes the judge making it clear https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/masern-wette-impfgegner-muss-nicht-zahlen-a-1077601.html
Lanka, however, did not want to pay, the case went to court. At first instance, the District Court ordered Ravensburg Lanka to transfer the sum. It was a "seriously meant binding reward promise," according to section 657 of the Civil Code. The anti-vaccination campaigner then called the next instance - the Higher Regional Court of Stuttgart.
She agreed with the anti-vaccination campaigner, for formal reasons. The promoter had wished for a single piece of evidence, but the applicant had provided several publications which provided evidence only in sum. Therefore, "the vocation is essentially granted."
However, this is by no means to be understood as confirmation of Lanka's theories, the court said: it is by no means "believed that a measles virus does not exist." And addressed to the members of the press present, the presiding judge said: "Watch out with your headlines."
.........
Personally at 66 and reasonably fit and slim and eating me Nuts, I fancy my chances. .........
:lol:
I'm 62 and nowhere near flexible enough to manage that - I take my hat off to you old chap :)
Pigmy Pony
26-11-2020, 23:26
Well my first thought would be that if 30,000 people are still dying every year from flu, then the vaccine is piss-poor effective! Seems that way, no? So what chance have completely new and untried ones got of being any more effective against Covid?
Marco.
What does your dark web tell you regarding the mortality rate of people who have had their flu vaccinations? If that was happening in significant numbers surely someone would be saying "Hang on, these people had their jab, so this vaccine is shit".
I'm not sure that matters, as the fact is a very high and significant number of people (as quoted) die every year from flu, many of whom one would presume had the flu jab, as if you're vulnerable to having a bad reaction to flu, you're going to want to be inoculated against it.
Yet despite that, they still die... Therefore, as I've said, that suggests that the flu vaccine isn't anywhere near 100% effective (I believe instead around 60/70%), and that's been around and 'refined' for many years, so why would vaccines for Covid, only just released, be likely any more effective?
Also, indeed as I've already asked you, why considering how many people die from flu every year (and have done for many DECADES before Covid arrived), has there never been as much 'hoo-hah'/mass widespread disruption on all levels, created around tackling that, as there has been with Covid, especially when vaccines clearly aren't a 'magic bullet'?
I would appreciate you giving an answer to that:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
26-11-2020, 23:47
I didn't say 'mere', and nor was I demeaning the number of deaths as insignificant (one death is one too many). My point was that why are 50,000 Covid deaths seemingly of 'greater importance' or significance than 30,000 flu deaths? Is the 30,000 deaths from flu not just as important a statistic to warrant similar action, in terms of prevention of its spread, as we're seeing now with Covid?
And your point about the potentially greater number of deaths there could've been from Covid, without lockdowns, is only valid if you believe that the current death figures are accurate, and not being deliberately inflated for effect - and there is credible evidence of that around if you care to look.
Plus, like I said, where are the death stats for all the people who've committed suicide from the effect of lockdowns and loss of jobs/income, plus those from folks who couldn't get cancer or other vital treatments? Don't they count either - or is that just seen as 'collateral damage'??
Marco.
You don't seem to be getting the importance of vaccination - Lockdown measures for flu are probably deemed unnecessary as the vaccine is keeping mortalities to manageable levels. We don't have that yet for Covid, don't have anything really.
As I've said before, the lockdown is doing my head in, and is bad for so many people in so many ways, so roll on vaccine. But don't fret too much about it, me and many others will 'take one for the team' and put our faith in the efficacy and safety of whatever vaccine makes it past the post. Then we can all go back to our lives bickering about Brexit :) including those who would prefer to leave the 'risk taking' to others :ner:
One more thing: If the death figures are being inflated 'for effect', what is the effect 'they' are striving for? Fear of going out to work? Compliance with the 'don't go to work' directives? Economic collapse can't be good for anyone, unless there's a theory covering that...
You don't seem to be getting the importance of vaccination - Lockdown measures for flu are probably deemed unnecessary as the vaccine is keeping mortalities to manageable levels.
How so?? With up to around 30,000 people a year still dying! How do you know how many of them had the flu jab or not?
Marco.
mad-moon
26-11-2020, 23:53
I'm not sure that matters, as the fact is a very high and significant number of people (as quoted) die every year from flu, many of whom one would presume had the flu jab, as if you're vulnerable to having a bad reaction to flu, you're going to want to be inoculated against it.
Yet despite that, they still die... Therefore, as I've said, that suggests that the flu vaccine isn't anywhere near 100% effective (I believe instead around 60/70%), and that's been around and 'refined' for many years, so why would vaccines for Covid, only just released, be likely any more effective?
Also, indeed as I've already asked you, why considering how many people die from flu every year (and have done for many DECADES before Covid arrived), has there never been as much 'hoo-hah'/mass widespread disruption on all levels, created around tackling that, as there has been with Covid, especially when vaccines clearly aren't a 'magic bullet'?
I would appreciate you giving an answer to that:)
Marco.
could it be that...Cold and Flu medications are a multi million pound money making exercise every year?
Pigmy Pony
26-11-2020, 23:57
I'm 62 and nowhere near flexible enough to manage that - I take my hat off to you old chap :)
You wouldn't want to kiss him though...
mad-moon
26-11-2020, 23:58
There is a reason for the flu vaccine not being effective as the vaccine is a guessing game as to which jab you get depending on the following
The flu vaccine is not 100% effective
Even if you get your flu vaccine on time, it's not 100% effective. So there's still a chance you can get the flu even after you've been vaccinated.
That's because scientists don't always correctly match the viruses in the vaccine with those that pop up during the flu season. This is what's called a mismatch.
The CDC typically recommends that vaccine manufacturers include virus particles or weakened viruses that have been circulating in the Southern Hemisphere six months or so before the upcoming flu season in the Northern Hemisphere. However, what infects the Northern Hemisphere isn't always the same virus as what popped up in the Southern Hemisphere.
As I've said before, the lockdown is doing my head in, and is bad for so many people in so many ways, so roll on vaccine. But don't fret too much about it, me and many others will 'take one for the team' and put our faith in the efficacy and safety of whatever vaccine makes it past the post. Then we can all go back to our lives bickering about Brexit :) including those who would prefer to leave the 'risk taking' to others :ner:
Lol - it's a matter of one's individual choice and personal circumstances. If I were still working full-time like you and in daily contact with a number of different people, I might think differently about how my actions (and attitude towards vaccines) impacted on others.
The fact is, I spend the vast amount of my time at home alone, with only the cats for company, and Del when she returns from work. Yes, we both socialise and also go out together, but that's still far from a regular occurrence - maybe once or twice a week, max, and sometimes it can be many weeks before either of us goes anywhere (other than out to work or for food shopping).
Therefore, in comparison with many others, we're not really out and about enough to spread viruses to any significant extent [especially me], and when we are, we take all the necessary precautions and follow the rules, so in the grand scheme of things, I don't think my decision not to have a vaccine for Covid will have much (if any) impact on others:)
One more thing: If the death figures are being inflated 'for effect', what is the effect 'they' are striving for?
Quite simply to create a culture of fear! When people are scared senseless (as indeed many are of catching Covid), then they're easier to manipulate and control, for all sorts of potential reasons - and *if* that's true in relation to this 'pandemic', then the real reasons for that haven't yet been revealed.
Marco.
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 00:02
I get my Flu jab every year and touch wood...I haven't had the flu for over 10 years and I can't remember the last time I had a common cold.
Pigmy Pony
27-11-2020, 00:05
I'm not sure that matters, as the fact is a very high and significant number of people (as quoted) die every year from flu, many of whom one would presume had the flu jab, as if you're vulnerable to having a bad reaction to flu, you're going to want to be inoculated against it.
Yet despite that, they still die... Therefore, as I've said, that suggests that the flu vaccine isn't anywhere near 100% effective (I believe instead around 60/70%), and that's been around and 'refined' for many years, so why would vaccines for Covid, only just released, be likely any more effective?
Also, indeed as I've already asked you, why considering how many people die from flu every year (and have done for many DECADES before Covid arrived), has there never been as much 'hoo-hah'/mass widespread disruption on all levels, created around tackling that, as there has been with Covid, especially when vaccines clearly aren't a 'magic bullet'?
I would appreciate you giving an answer to that:)
Marco.
You (or your 'dark web' is presuming(!) that many of the folk dying from flu. Presuming! Then you go on to say that vaccines are CLEARLY not a magic bullet. I can't reconcile those two statements, sorry. At least you didn't have to wait 24 hours for a reply this time :)
could it be that...Cold and Flu medications are a multi million pound money making exercise every year?
Indeed... So don't you think it's a *possibility* that the pharmaceutical companies producing such could be using Covid as a vehicle/excuse to allow them to make FAR more money than they're ever done, from WORLDWIDE sales of vaccines, and therefore be driving the agenda in some way?
Look at the VAST quantities of doses that the UK alone has ordered, never mind the rest of the world... Just THINK how much money is being made as a result, and so financially, potentially who seeks to gain most out of this whole situation!;)
Marco.
You (or your 'dark web' is presuming(!) that many of the folk dying from flu. Presuming! Then you go on to say that vaccines are CLEARLY not a magic bullet. I can't reconcile those two statements, sorry. At least you didn't have to wait 24 hours for a reply this time :)
I'm not automatically presuming anything, simply putting it out there as a possibility! Do you have evidence to refute it? My point is that the majority of people have the flu jab every year, yet despite that, up to 30,000 still die.
Therefore, vaccines clearly aren't a 'magic bullet', as none of them are 100% effective, especially those for flu. A true 'magic bullet' would be 100% effective. If you do some research, you'll find that the best figures for the efficacy of flu vaccines are around 70% - so what happens with the remaining 30% (at best) of inefficacy? It KILLS folk, that's what!
Marco.
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 00:26
Indeed... So don't you think it's a *possibility* that the pharmaceutical companies producing such could be using Covid as a vehicle/excuse to allow them to make FAR more money than they're ever done from sales of vaccines?
Look at the VAST quantities of doses that the UK alone has ordered, never mind the rest of the world... Just THINK how much profit is being made as a result, and so financially, potentially who seeks to gain most out of this whole situation!;)
Marco.
The Vaccine makers..
There is a reason for the flu vaccine not being effective as the vaccine is a guessing game as to which jab you get depending on the following
The flu vaccine is not 100% effective
Even if you get your flu vaccine on time, it's not 100% effective. So there's still a chance you can get the flu even after you've been vaccinated.
Indeed, and the same will also apply to those who will be getting vaccinated for Covid, especially when it mutates in a similar way to flu.
Marco.
The Vaccine makers..
Bravo:clap:;)
But mainly those who own or control the biggest of the companies in question!
The other major 'beneficiary' in all of this, with lockdowns and folks having been forced indoors for MONTHS on end now, is Amazon. And that situation will only worsen as the high street dies, increasingly accelerated by further lockdowns, and more and more people shop online.
So you have the likes of Bill Gates [a major investor in many of the pharma companies producing the vaccines] and Jeff Bezos, CEO of Amazon, becoming WAY richer than they would've otherwise ever been, had Covid not come around.
If that doesn't get you at least thinking that some things might not quite be what they seem, then well, I don't know what to say...
Marco.
All these questions have been answered previously on this thread.
Flu is not the same as covid - Covid is much more transmissible. Plus you can have covid and not know you have got it. thus carrying on your normal life and infecting others. No true of the flu - if you have the flu you are on your back for two weeks
Covid is more likely to result in a fatality.
No vaccine is 100% effective
Who benefits if big pharma make money? - Everyone with a pension
Flu comes back every year as there are multiple strains. There is no permanent solution. Whereas with covid a vaccine that is only 50% effective will still eventually result in herd immunity which will eradicate the virus in the same way as the smallpox virus was eradicated.
The eradication of smallpox is strong proof that vaccines - despite not being 100% effective - are still very effective in eliminating viruses from the population. It demonstrates that current thinking on virology is correct.
Saying you don't need to have it as you don't get out much isn't really an excuse - you do get out quite a bit - the shops, restaurants, socialising - if you are a carrier then you will pass it on to someone who may well get very sick and/or die from it. If you had the flu you would not be doing any of those things, you would be at home incapable ,
The socially responsible thing to do is to have the vaccine.
walpurgis
27-11-2020, 08:44
I agree with all that.
prestonchipfryer
27-11-2020, 09:04
I agree with all that.
Yes I do also.
Amazon are giving their full-time warehouse staff a £300 pound bonus this year. That's 27,000 odd happy employees then. :eyebrows:
Flu is not the same as covid - Covid is much more transmissible. Plus you can have covid and not know you have got it. thus carrying on your normal life and infecting others. No true of the flu - if you have the flu you are on your back for two weeks
Covid is more likely to result in a fatality.
Yes, we know all that and accept it.
However, it still doesn't address the issue of the (up to) 30,000 people who die every year from flu, which arguably (and there are just as many stats around suggesting this, as the opposite) is capable (the key word) of killing as many people as Covid, and why to date there hasn't been anywhere near the same efforts by the authorities in attempting to combat that (other than with a vaccine), via measures such as the mandatory wearing of face masks, enforcing of public social distancing, hand cleansing, etc, which have been introduced for Covid.
Don't you think that the latter would also help curb the spread of flu and potentially save lives? So why hasn't it been done??
Plus, as I've said, many others and I still remain highly sceptical of how many of the deaths attached to the stats for Covid were actually 100% due to Covid, and not some pre-existing comorbidity. I've heard from a number of people I know who have friends or family in the NHS, that they're being *encouraged* by the government to label as many deaths as possible as caused by Covid, given the slightest opportunity, when in *actuality* the real cause of death was something else - so what's all that about..?
Who benefits if big pharma make money? - Everyone with a pension
So, is that what matters most, rather than anything else, particularly how much more insidious power and influence it gives to some of the rather dodgy people who own or control the companies concerned, and how negatively that impacts on many other aspects of our lives? And has done for years....!
Flu comes back every year as there are multiple strains. There is no permanent solution. Whereas with covid a vaccine that is only 50% effective will still eventually result in herd immunity which will eradicate the virus in the same way as the smallpox virus was eradicated.
Or as we've discussed elsewhere, smallpox could've arguably already been on its way out, naturally, before the vaccine came, and the latter simply accelerated the process.
You or I, or indeed anyone else, cannot categorically prove otherwise. Therefore, whilst I agree that good (and safe) vaccines can help eradicate many diseases, they are no magic bullet, or necessarily (or certainly indisputably) any more effective in creating herd immunity than simply allowing nature to take its course.
Saying you don't need to have it as you don't get out much isn't really an excuse - you do get out quite a bit - the shops, restaurants, socialising - if you are a carrier then you will pass it on to someone who may well get very sick and/or die from it. If you had the flu you would not be doing any of those things
Yes, but the point is I'm less likely to spread the virus, if indeed I was a carrier, than the majority of others who are in daily contact with many different people at work and/or on the way there, via public transport, and also who go to pubs and other social venues after that, plus at weekends - and that is significant in terms of how much of a danger I realistically present to others.
The socially responsible thing to do is to have the vaccine.
Sorry, that's bullshit and more than a little offensive, as it implies that those who won't, don't care or are irresponsible, which is completely untrue.
Dropping litter on the street, or smoking in public places, even where it isn't banned, but still causes distress to others, or not picking up your dog's mess, is socially irresponsible. Having a vaccine, which *YOU* don't consider as safe and that could be seriously harmful to YOUR future health, is a totally different matter!!
The difference is, you're satisfied that the forthcoming (largely untried) vaccines for Covid will be safe, based on YOUR judgement criteria, which is fine and I respect that, but would you still take one, if like me you had SERIOUS reservations, simply to be 'socially responsible'? No chance!
Therefore, kindly respect others and my contrary conclusions on how safe they're likely to be, based on OUR judgement criteria, and don't lay a guilt trip like that on us, as it's both extremely judgemental and highly offensive, especially when we're following the rules, and otherwise doing everything we can, in order to protect other people when we go out.
Marco.
Pierre De Grenoble
27-11-2020, 09:12
I agree with all that.
+1
Well, then we'll have to agree to disagree!:ner:;)
Marco.
anthonyTD
27-11-2020, 09:47
How do we know how many people walk around carrying the Flu virus every year, and not be affected by it ? :scratch: why are the rules diffrent for one corona virus to another ?
This is exactly the point i have been trying to make :doh:
Its like banging your head on a brick wall, eventualy you realise the effort isnt worth the pain! :(:(:(
anthonyTD
27-11-2020, 09:52
And one more thing i would like to address before i finaly throw the towel in on this;
If I told you I saw Elvis in my local chip shop wearing a top hat and tails, you would undoubtedly question my story, and rightly so, and probably ask me for proof, I would then oblige and produce a picture, you would then look at the picture and notice that it was made up of parts taken from other picks, and would instantly call me out on it.
This is an exaggerated example, but I hope you get where I am coming from.
In this particular instance the bet was placed with a very specific ruling and criteria applied, and the evidence in this case was not within those rules specified.
Another example; you bet on a particular horse in a race, your horse doesn’t win, but you still state that you won, because a horse did indeed win the race, is that fair, would you still expect to be paid out ?
Article from Die Spiegal here which actually quotes the judge making it clear https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/masern-wette-impfgegner-muss-nicht-zahlen-a-1077601.html
Lanka, however, did not want to pay, the case went to court. At first instance, the District Court ordered Ravensburg Lanka to transfer the sum. It was a "seriously meant binding reward promise," according to section 657 of the Civil Code. The anti-vaccination campaigner then called the next instance - the Higher Regional Court of Stuttgart.
She agreed with the anti-vaccination campaigner, for formal reasons. The promoter had wished for a single piece of evidence, but the applicant had provided several publications which provided evidence only in sum. Therefore, "the vocation is essentially granted."
However, this is by no means to be understood as confirmation of Lanka's theories, the court said: it is by no means "believed that a measles virus does not exist." And addressed to the members of the press present, the presiding judge said: "Watch out with your headlines."
Marco, you the boss of a pretty decent forum. Attracts music-loving people of high intelligence. :)
Only better one I can think of is Mersenne Forum which is ridiculously polite and clever:
https://www.mersenneforum.org
But as your friend, I must tell you that you have seriously entrenched views. The person who sees most of a Football game is the neutral.
Vaccines have side-effects. Make you ill for a few days. But better than the original illness. I have seen more illnesses than most people. Life-changing horrors.
Smallpox, Bilharzia, Malaria, Meningitis. I could go on. We live in Glorious Days. Eat like Kings, have a free National Health Service who are mostly good people. Happy Days. :lol:
How do we know how many people walk around carrying the Flu virus every year, and not be affected by it ? :scratch: why are the rules diffrent for one corona virus to another ?
This is exactly the point i have been trying to make :doh:
Its like banging your head on a brick wall, eventualy you realise the effort isnt worth the pain! :(:(:(
Exactly, Anthony - and now if you don't behave as 'deemed correct' by the self-appointed conscious police, you're socially irresponsible!!:doh::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Marco.
But as your friend, I must tell you that you have seriously entrenched views. The person who sees most of a Football game is the neutral.
Sorry, my views aren't any more entrenched in this matter than those of folks here who disagree with them, so kindly respect that and simply agree to differ. One could say that the reason you consider my views as entrenched, is because you can't see past your own!:ner: And also because you want me to think like you.
Therefore, who's views or outlook here is the more entrenched?;)
The fact is, there is no right or wrong here, only equally valid opinions.
Marco.
anthonyTD
27-11-2020, 10:23
You only have to look back in history at what many people class as two of the most brilliant minds ever, Nikola Tesla and Albert Einstein, they disliked each other for what each classed as very valid reasons, a quote below, true or false, again , if you care, do your research.
When Albert Einstein was asked how it felt to be the “smartest person alive”, Einstein replied:
“I don’t know, you’ll have to ask Nikola Tesla.”
Certain scholars question the validity of this exchange, largely because Tesla…well, in 1934, on his 79th birthday, Tesla called Einstein’s Relativity Theory “…a beggar wrapped in purple whom ignorant people take for a king.”
Other Tesla quotes amid his public disagreement with Einstein, regarding Relativity Theory:
— “…a mass of error and deceptive ideas violently opposed to the teachings of great men of science of the past and even to common sense…the theory wraps all these errors and fallacies and clothes them in magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. Its exponents are very brilliant men, but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.”
— “Not a single one of the relativity propositions has been proved.” (NYT, 7/11/1935, p. 23).
Exactly, Anthony - and now if you don't behave as 'deemed correct' by others, you're socially irresponsible!!:doh::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Marco.
walpurgis
27-11-2020, 11:33
Yes I do also.
Amazon are giving their full-time warehouse staff a £300 pound bonus this year. That's 27,000 odd happy employees then. :eyebrows:
Unlike those employed in Philip Green's interests: https://news.sky.com/story/greens-topshop-empire-arcadia-group-faces-collapse-within-days-12143752
The problem, Anthony, is that some people only want to believe in the veracity of 'one true science', or path [i.e. the 'correct' one, based on their biases and belief system], and dismiss all others that seek to contradict it - and as you've pointed out, this isn't a new phenomenon either.
Burn the heretics, eh?;)
And that's *precisely* the problem we have now with coronavirus, as the government (and/or media) only want to follow, or allow for public consumption, their version of such, whilst not only ignoring the rest, but gagging the associated 'dissenting' [equally expert] voices!:doh:
It's brainwashing, pure and simple, and not what we should be facing in a democracy. Plus it completely erodes free-thinking, which I'm vehemently against.
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
27-11-2020, 11:47
Unlike those employed in Philip Green's interests: https://news.sky.com/story/greens-topshop-empire-arcadia-group-faces-collapse-within-days-12143752
Sad times for all shop workers. Many towns will never recover after all this nonsense of allowing some to open and others to stay closed.
Went into Superdrug yesterday to buy some Corsodyl mouthwash. My wife asked about the perfumes on offer and was told she could buy it.
Meanwhile Debenhams, which is next door to Superdrug here, and stocks a vast selection of perfumes are unable to open to sell it. Makes no sense whatsoever.
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 11:58
Sad times for all shop workers. Many towns will never recover after all this nonsense of allowing some to open and others to stay closed.
Went into Superdrug yesterday to buy some Corsodyl mouthwash. My wife asked about the perfumes on offer and was told she could buy it.
Meanwhile Debenhams, which is next door to Superdrug here, and stocks a vast selection of perfumes are unable to open to sell it. Makes no sense whatsoever.
Yes you're quite correct..All businesses should be shut and everyone should be at home...but...where are people gonna buy cold and Flu remedies from, if Superdrug is shut?
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 12:04
Yes, we know all that and accept it.
However, it still doesn't address the issue of the (up to) 30,000 people who die every year from flu, which arguably (and there are just as many stats around suggesting this, as the opposite) is capable (the key word) of killing as many people as Covid, and why to date there hasn't been anywhere near the same efforts by the authorities in attempting to combat that (other than with a vaccine), via measures such as the mandatory wearing of face masks, enforcing of public social distancing, hand cleansing, etc, which have been introduced for Covid.
Don't you think all of that would also help curb the spread of flu and potentially save lives? So why hasn't it been done??
Plus, as I've said, many others and I still remain suspicious of how many of the deaths attached to the stats for Covid were actually 100% due to Covid, and not some other underlying condition. I've heard from a number of people I know who have friends or family in the NHS, that they're being *encouraged* by the government to label as many deaths as possible as Covid, when given even the slightest opportunity, when in *actuality* the real cause of death was something else - so what's all that about..?
So, is that what matters most, rather than anything else, particularly how much more insidious power and influence it gives to some of the rather dodgy people who own or control the companies concerned, and how negatively that impacts on many other aspects of our lives? And has done for years....!
Or as we've discussed elsewhere, smallpox could've arguably already been on its way out, naturally, before the vaccine came, and the latter simply accelerated the process.
You or I, or indeed anyone else, cannot categorically prove otherwise. Therefore, whilst I agree that good (and safe) vaccines can help eradicate many diseases, they are no magic bullet, or necessarily (or certainly indisputably) any more effective in creating herd immunity than simply allowing nature to take its course.
Yes, but the point is I'm less likely to spread the virus, if indeed I was a carrier, than the majority of others who are in daily contact with lots of people at work and/or on the way there, via public transport, and also who go to pubs and other social venues after that, and at weekends - and that is significant in terms of how much of a danger I present to others.
Sorry, that's bullshit and more than a little offensive, as it implies that those who won't, don't care or are irresponsible, which is completely untrue.
Not dropping litter on the street, or smoking in public places, even where it isn't banned, but still causes distress to others, or not picking up your dog's mess, is socially irresponsible. Having a vaccine, which *YOU* don't consider as safe and that could be seriously harmful to YOUR future health, is a totally different thing!!
The difference is, you're satisfied that the forthcoming (largely untried) vaccines for Covid are safe, based on YOUR judgement criteria, which is fine, but would you still take one, if like me you had SERIOUS reservations, simply to be 'socially responsible'? I doubt it.
Therefore, kindly respect others and my contrary conclusions, based on OUR judgement criteria, and don't lay that kind of guilt trip on us, as it's both extremely judgemental and highly offensive, especially when we're following the rules, and otherwise doing everything we can, in order to protect other people when we go out.
Marco.
Chill out FFS....:ner: ...
anthonyTD
27-11-2020, 12:05
Unfortunetly i tend to agree :(
The problem, Anthony, is that some people only want to believe in the veracity of 'one true science', or path [i.e. the 'correct' one, based on their biases and belief system], and dismiss all others that seek to contradict it - and as you've pointed out, this isn't a new phenomenon either.
Burn the heretics, eh?;)
And that's *precisely* the problem we have now with coronavirus, as the government (and/or media) only want to follow, or allow for public consumption, their version of such, whilst not only ignoring the rest, but gagging the associated 'dissenting' [equally expert] voices!:doh:
It's brainwashing, pure and simple, and not what we should be facing in a democracy. Plus it completely erodes free-thinking, which I'm vehemently against.
Marco.
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 12:08
Stop using the Flu as you are comparing apples to oranges...leave the Flu out of it all together, then make an argument...
anthonyTD
27-11-2020, 12:17
How can i do that when there isnt any solid proven evidence that i can find, that what ever we are dealing with is anything diffrent than a similar Corona virus to that which causes Flu!
Show me some real photographic evidence of the actual virus that's proven to be the cause of all this, and i will re-evaluate things.
[B]Stop using the Flu as you are comparing apples to oranges...leave the Flu out of it all together, then make an argument...
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 12:18
All these questions have been answered previously on this thread.
Flu is not the same as covid - Covid is much more transmissible. Plus you can have covid and not know you have got it. thus carrying on your normal life and infecting others. No true of the flu - if you have the flu you are on your back for two weeks
Covid is more likely to result in a fatality.
No vaccine is 100% effective
Who benefits if big pharma make money? - Everyone with a pension
Flu comes back every year as there are multiple strains. There is no permanent solution. Whereas with covid a vaccine that is only 50% effective will still eventually result in herd immunity which will eradicate the virus in the same way as the smallpox virus was eradicated.
The eradication of smallpox is strong proof that vaccines - despite not being 100% effective - are still very effective in eliminating viruses from the population. It demonstrates that current thinking on virology is correct.
Saying you don't need to have it as you don't get out much isn't really an excuse - you do get out quite a bit - the shops, restaurants, socialising - if you are a carrier then you will pass it on to someone who may well get very sick and/or die from it. If you had the flu you would not be doing any of those things, you would be at home incapable ,
The socially responsible thing to do is to have the vaccine.
I totally agree with all this too....I wish the vaccine was out now..It's also my opinion ...respect it please..no matter how safe you think you are...you're not!
The problem, Anthony, is that some people only want to believe in the veracity of 'one true science', or path [i.e. the 'correct' one, based on their biases and belief system], and dismiss all others that seek to contradict it - and as you've pointed out, this isn't a new phenomenon either.
Burn the heretics, eh?;)
And that's *precisely* the problem we have now with coronavirus, as the government (and/or media) only want to follow, or allow for public consumption, their version of such, whilst not only ignoring the rest, but gagging the associated 'dissenting' [equally expert] voices!:doh:
It's brainwashing, pure and simple, and not what we should be facing in a democracy. Plus it completely erodes free-thinking, which I'm vehemently against.
Marco.
outside of mathematics nothing is certain. So as a gambling man I study form and place my bets accordingly. What I want to believe is irrelevant to me. If you are a gambler and you bet according to what you want to believe will win, or based solely on what your 'gut instinct' tells you, then you will, over time, lose a lot of money.
Studying form on this subject indicates that there is no issue with vaccines and that in most cases they do solve the problem.
if the evidence presented by the anti-vaxxers was more credible then I would swing that way. The problem is that it isn't at all credible and much of it is a tissue of lies, as we have seen with the German court/measles thing.
If someone has a strong evidential case they don't need to make things up, or wilfully misinterpret the facts to strengthen their case. As soon as you see that you know that their is something bogus going on.
I've no problem with people expressing anti-vax views, that is free speech. But I object to the idea that all views are simply 'opinion' and carry the same weight. That's just so wrong I don't even know where to start.
anthonyTD
27-11-2020, 12:47
Couldnt agree more, which is why none of what is happening at the moment makes much sense!:eek:
Seriously though,unfortunetly people will read into things, and instead of forwarding the article in its entirety, they will add stuff or take away that which does not fit with the point they are trying to make. In the case of the German Scientist, he was not responsible for other peoples interpretation of the outcome of the procedings, and it wasnt the reason for me submiting the info there in the first place, you, and others as predicted picked up on the very part of that article that you thought best fitted your reasoning to totaly discredit what the Dr in question was trying to prove!
Look back a few pages, and you will find a few replies from me you may have missed. :)
If someone has a strong evidential case they don't need to make things up, or wilfully misinterpret the facts to strengthen their case. As soon as you see that you know that their is something bogus going on.
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 13:08
Couldnt agree more, which is why none of what is happening at the moment makes much sense!:eek:
Seriously though,unfortunetly people will read into things, and instead of forwarding the article in its entirety, they will add stuff or take away that which does not fit with the point they are trying to make. In the case of the German Scientist, he was not responsible for other peoples interpretation of the outcome of the procedings, and it wasnt the reason for me submiting the info there in the first place, you, and others as predicted picked up on the very part of that article that you thought best fitted your reasoning to totaly discredit what the Dr in question was trying to prove!
Look back a few pages, and you will find a few replies from me you may have missed. :)
this thread is flooded with this...
Stop using the Flu as you are comparing apples to oranges...leave the Flu out of it all together, then make an argument...
Not necessarily, if you actually understand and digest the contents of the arguments I've presented. The valid comparison is that BOTH, however you cut it, are capable of killing lots of people. My argument wasn't based upon which one is the most infectious or virulent.
Plus also, rather importantly, which others and you are either deliberately ignoring or refusing to entertain, is the notion that the published death stats for Covid *may* not be entirely based upon truths, as I outlined earlier. Therefore *if* that's the case, then it's impossible to judge with any real accuracy how deadly this virus is.
Marco.
this thread is flooded with this...
In your humble opinion, but if it is, it's not just in the arguments presented that you happen to disagree with!;)
Marco.
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 17:45
In your humble opinion, but if it is, it's not just in the arguments presented that you happen to disagree with!;)
Marco.
can you elucidate...
outside of mathematics nothing is certain. So as a gambling man I study form and place my bets accordingly. What I want to believe is irrelevant to me. If you are a gambler and you bet according to what you want to believe will win, or based solely on what your 'gut instinct' tells you, then you will, over time, lose a lot of money.
Studying form on this subject indicates that there is no issue with vaccines and that in most cases they do solve the problem.
Yes, but regardless of how you've arrived at your conclusions, based on the above, they still simply represent your opinion, not indisputable fact.
if the evidence presented by the anti-vaxxers was more credible then I would swing that way. The problem is that it isn't at all credible and much of it is a tissue of lies, as we have seen with the German court/measles thing.
Firstly, I think you're missing the point Anthony was making earlier, and secondly, as far as I'm aware, no-one here, least of all me (or I suspect Anthony) qualify as "anti-vaxxers". We've been here before earlier in the discussion. You can be highly critical or suspicious of something specific to a certain vaccine, without being 'anti' them in general.
I trust you can appreciate the difference? Therefore, please don't incorrectly label me as an "anti-vaxxer", as I'm fundamentally not.
If someone has a strong evidential case they don't need to make things up, or wilfully misinterpret the facts to strengthen their case. As soon as you see that you know that their is something bogus going on.
Indeed, and you could argue precisely that point about the trustworthiness/accuracy of the scientific advice that the government have been following throughout this pandemic. "bogus", in that respect, is highly apt!;)
I've no problem with people expressing anti-vax views, that is free speech. But I object to the idea that all views are simply 'opinion' and carry the same weight. That's just so wrong I don't even know where to start.
Firstly, once again you're going on about "anti-vax views", when none have been expressed, unless you qualify such as someone simply being critical of and calling into question the safety, *specifically* of the forthcoming vaccines for Covid?
I could say, for example, that I hated the Ford Fiesta, because I think that it's an unsafe pile of shit [I don't, btw], but that doesn't necessarily make me 'anti-Ford', especially if I rate all the other cars in their range - and the same analogy applies to vaccines!
Lastly, whilst I agree in principle with your views on the respective weight of different opinions, my point is that whatever science you choose to believe is right, in respect of the handling of this 'pandemic', carries no more weight or 'indisputable correctness' than any other, and that applies to the scientific views of the experts who are currently advising the government, and any opinions subsequently formed by others on that basis, as much as any other.
Marco.
can you elucidate...
Earlier, you highlighted this part of Anthony's post:
unfortunetly people will read into things, and instead of forwarding the article in its entirety, they will add stuff or take away that which does not fit with the point they are trying to make.
And then said:
this thread is flooded with this...
Well, if true, it's not simply just in the content that you disagree with, but also the rest, as arguably those on BOTH sides of the debate have been guilty of 'selectively choosing' quotes in a way that best backs up their argument, but you're only able to see the former because it fits with your bias.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
27-11-2020, 18:07
I'm not automatically presuming anything, simply putting it out there as a possibility! Do you have evidence to refute it? My point is that the majority of people have the flu jab every year, yet despite that, up to 30,000 still die.
Therefore, vaccines clearly aren't a 'magic bullet', as none of them are 100% effective, especially those for flu. A true 'magic bullet' would be 100% effective. If you do some research, you'll find that the best figures for the efficacy of flu vaccines are around 70% - so what happens with the remaining 30% (at best) of inefficacy? It KILLS folk, that's what!
Marco.
Sorry mate, I did a piss-poor job with that post, which reading back may not have made much sense, but in my defence it was way past my bedtime and I had to be up at 6.30! However you first used the word 'presume', I took it from there :)
I don't need to provide evidence as I'm not refuting what you say, just questioning it - so over to you for the evidence! I would however doubt that the majority of people have the flu jab every year, I'm booked to have my first ever one next month. How many years have you been getting the flu jab? I can accept that the flu vaccination is not 100% effective (around 70% you say), that's still a lot bet than no jab, which would be 100% not effective.
As for researching this stuff - nah, I really can't be arsed, I've got more important things to do, like looking at amplifiers on Ebay :)
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 18:07
Just out of interest..there were 400 cases in the UK when this thread started..it now stands at 1.5million+
Pigmy Pony
27-11-2020, 18:16
All these questions have been answered previously on this thread.
Flu is not the same as covid - Covid is much more transmissible. Plus you can have covid and not know you have got it. thus carrying on your normal life and infecting others. No true of the flu - if you have the flu you are on your back for two weeks
Covid is more likely to result in a fatality.
No vaccine is 100% effective
Who benefits if big pharma make money? - Everyone with a pension
Flu comes back every year as there are multiple strains. There is no permanent solution. Whereas with covid a vaccine that is only 50% effective will still eventually result in herd immunity which will eradicate the virus in the same way as the smallpox virus was eradicated.
The eradication of smallpox is strong proof that vaccines - despite not being 100% effective - are still very effective in eliminating viruses from the population. It demonstrates that current thinking on virology is correct.
Saying you don't need to have it as you don't get out much isn't really an excuse - you do get out quite a bit - the shops, restaurants, socialising - if you are a carrier then you will pass it on to someone who may well get very sick and/or die from it. If you had the flu you would not be doing any of those things, you would be at home incapable ,
The socially responsible thing to do is to have the vaccine.
Thank you Martin, my thoughts presented in a concise and coherent way :)
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 18:23
Earlier, you highlighted this part of Anthony's post:
And then said:
Well, if true, it's not simply just in the content that you disagree with, but also the rest, as arguably those on BOTH sides of the debate have been guilty of 'selectively choosing' quotes in a way that best backs up their argument, but you're only able to see the former because it fits with your bias.
Marco.
I point out that people are picking partial excerpts from statements made on the thread, instead of copying the whole statement on the thread and not just the parts that suits them...like your comments copied about the flu virus not being 100% effective, without copying the rest of the text explaining why the vaccine is not 100% effective...
Pigmy Pony
27-11-2020, 18:26
:
Its like banging your head on a brick wall, eventualy you realise the effort isnt worth the pain! :(:(:(
Took you a while to realise that banging your head against a brick wall isn't worth the pain, but you got there eventually :) I've known this for years, have the scars to prove it...no lasting damage though ;)
Folks, hate to keep banging on, but actually there are no human rights.
If you unhappilly encounter a Shark or a Bear or a Tiger, do you think a lawyer is going to save you? :scratch:
You just take your chances. Hopefully outrun your more slower-witted competitors. How it works. Called Evolution. :lol:
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 18:36
Folks, hate to keep banging on, but actually the are no human rights.
If you unhappilly encounter a Shark or a Bear or a Tiger, do you think a lawyer is going to save you? :scratch:
You just take your chances. Hopefully outrun your more slower-witted competitors. How it works. Called Evolution. :lol:
Should that not be ...survival of the fittest?
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 18:48
Who is going to have the vaccine when it arrives??
me for one...
Pierre De Grenoble
27-11-2020, 18:58
Who is going to have the vaccine when it arrives??
me for one...
and me.
Pigmy Pony
27-11-2020, 18:59
Who is going to have the vaccine when it arrives??
me for one...
I think we already know who will and who won't :)
But at this point I will say that although I've been taking the piss out of Marco's refusal to have the jab, I do respect his decision, and that of others who share that view. All I ask in return is that my pro-vax stance not mark me out as being weak-minded or brainwashed :)
I think we already know who will and who won't :)
But at this point I will say that although I've been taking the piss out of Marco's refusal to have the jab, I do respect his decision, and that of others who share that view. All I ask in return is that my pro-vax stance not mark me out as being weak-minded or brainwashed :)
Yes - that's the point I've been trying to get across too.
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 19:07
I think we already know who will and who won't :)
But at this point I will say that although I've been taking the piss out of Marco's refusal to have the jab, I do respect his decision, and that of others who share that view. All I ask in return is that my pro-vax stance not mark me out as being weak-minded or brainwashed :)
I am of the opinion, that this will be the only way forward to seeing folks get out again, visiting friends and family, back to work and some sort of normal life, instead of being confined and the quicker the better. Government will never relent on this score, so lets just get on with it..I don't feel weak minded nor brainwashed..and neither should you...Marco..he's like a fish on a hook...isn't he???;)
Loving this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uese-6Xln7o
I would however doubt that the majority of people have the flu jab every year, I'm booked to have my first ever one next month. How many years have you been getting the flu jab? I can accept that the flu vaccination is not 100% effective (around 70% you say), that's still a lot bet than no jab, which would be 100% not effective.
Well, in terms of the debate over whether the majority of people will have had the flu jab or not, we'll just have to agree to disagree, as unless there are official stats on the matter, there's no way of proving it.
My inclination is to consider that most will have availed of it, simply to be (or feel) more protected. Yet despite that, up to 30,000 people still die every year from flu, and among those, neither of us knows who was vaccinated and who wasn't.
No, the flu jab isn't 100% effective, no vaccine is, and yes 70% effective is still better than no jab - *if* you feel that you need it. My point was that NO vaccine is a 'silver bullet', and that will include the forthcoming ones for Covid.
I've never had a flu jab, as I don't feel I need one. I've only ever had proper flu twice in my life [never anything really serious], so consider that my immune system on its own is good enough to protect me, which is also how I feel towards Covid.
Marco.
I point out that people are picking partial excerpts from statements made on the thread, instead of copying the whole statement on the thread and not just the parts that suits them...
Yes, but you only see the instances of such where it suits YOU, not where it doesn't!:ner:;)
...like your comments copied about the flu virus not being 100% effective, without copying the rest of the text explaining why the vaccine is not 100% effective...
Did you mean the flu vaccine?
I didn't copy anything or miss anything out. That was simply my opinion, based on facts. NO vaccine is ever 100% effective. It doesn't really matter WHY, but simply that it isn't.
Marco.
But at this point I will say that although I've been taking the piss out of Marco's refusal to have the jab, I do respect his decision, and that of others who share that view. All I ask in return is that my pro-vax stance not mark me out as being weak-minded or brainwashed :)
You see that's the problem: only seeing what you THINK is there, rather than what actually IS! Where have I *directly* accused anyone here (least of all Martin or you), of being weak-minded or brainwashed?
Just because I make a general point that *in my opinion* the government are brainwashing the public, by manipulating certain aspects of what impact this virus is having on our lives, to suit their agenda, doesn't mean that it applies to YOU, unless YOU consider that YOU qualify as such, by seeing yourself in that description!:D:ner:
So to be crystal clear: I DON'T think that YOU are weak-minded or brainwashed, but I believe that many others are, who simply swallow everything that they're told by the 'powers that be' and obey it without question.
Marco.
I am of the opinion, that this will be the only way forward to seeing folks get out again, visiting friends and family, back to work and some sort of normal life, instead of being confined and the quicker the better. Government will never relent on this score, so lets just get on with it..I don't feel weak minded nor brainwashed..and neither should you...
Well, I've just tackled the last bit, and that also applies to you, Alan. I don't think that you're weak-minded or brainwashed, although I do fundamentally disagree with many aspects of your stance in this debate, but that's fine, as you feel the same towards me, and neither of us has to agree with each other.
As for the first bit, many of us are already 'getting out again', and have been for some time, seeing friends and family [within the set guidelines], and generally living life as normally as possible in the circumstances. I'm sorry that, for one reason or another you haven't, but that's got nothing to do with me.
But don't judge matters [least of all how I behave, based on my circumstances] simply on how you're being affected in all of this, as that's both unhelpful and completely counterproductive.
Marco.
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 23:36
Yes, but you only see the instances of such where it suits YOU, not where it doesn't!:ner:;)
Did you mean the flu vaccine?
I didn't copy anything or miss anything out. That was simply my opinion, based on facts. NO vaccine is ever 100% effective. It doesn't really matter WHY, but simply that it isn't.
Marco.
yes...the vaccine Marco..
mad-moon
27-11-2020, 23:52
There is a reason for the flu vaccine not being effective as the vaccine is a guessing game as to which jab you get depending on the following
The flu vaccine is not 100% effective
Even if you get your flu vaccine on time, it's not 100% effective. So there's still a chance you can get the flu even after you've been vaccinated.
That's because scientists don't always correctly match the viruses in the vaccine with those that pop up during the flu season. This is what's called a mismatch.
The CDC typically recommends that vaccine manufacturers include virus particles or weakened viruses that have been circulating in the Southern Hemisphere six months or so before the upcoming flu season in the Northern Hemisphere. However, what infects the Northern Hemisphere isn't always the same virus as what popped up in the Southern Hemisphere.
you highlited/quoted this Marco (i used copied..pretty much the same thing) but there's more...which you didn't quote..the reason why it may not be 100% and you can still contract the flu virus
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 00:01
Well, I've just tackled the last bit, and that also applies to you, Alan. I don't think that you're weak-minded or brainwashed, although I do fundamentally disagree with many aspects of your stance in this debate, but that's fine, as you feel the same towards me, and neither of us has to agree with each other.
As for the first bit, many of us are already 'getting out again', and have been for some time, seeing friends and family [within the set guidelines], and generally living life as normally as possible in the circumstances. I'm sorry that, for one reason or another you haven't, but that's got nothing to do with me.
But don't judge matters [least of all how I behave, based on my circumstances] simply on how you're being affected in all of this, as that's both unhelpful and completely counterproductive.
Marco.
But I'm talking about moving about without any restrictions at all, like it was before this thing raised it's ugly head...and that everyone will be safe to do so..
you highlited/quoted this Marco (i used copied..pretty much the same thing) but there's more...which you didn't quote..the reason why it may not be 100% and you can still contract the flu virus
Yes, but it wasn't because I didn't think that bit was relevant, simply (as I've said) that the main point, as far as I was concerned, and based on the argument I was presenting, was the fact it wasn't 100% effective, not why.
My point is this:
People still die from flu every year *despite* having been vaccinated for it, and that's simply because the vaccine they've received won't have been 100% effective.
Therefore, if it's only, say, 70% effective, then the 30% of ineffectiveness WILL unquestionably have an impact on the mortality rates of those who've been vaccinated, but still get flu, and unfortunately succumb to a fatal reaction from it.
And in that respect, the forthcoming vaccines for Covid are unlikely to be any different.
Marco.
But I'm talking about moving about without any restrictions at all, like it was before this thing raised it's ugly head...and that everyone will be safe to do so..
Well, that's fine, but you're rather more optimistic about that than me, as I don't see the forthcoming vaccines acting as a return ticket fully to the normality we had before this thing happened. For me, that boat has long since sailed, but I sincerely hope it's you who's right, not me.
Marco.
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 00:12
Marco..You're impossible...:lol:
Aye, and you love it!:ner::D
Anyway, we can talk more shite tomorrow. Right now, me scratcher beckons, so..... :goodnight:
Marco.
But I'm talking about moving about without any restrictions at all, like it was before this thing raised it's ugly head...and that everyone will be safe to do so..
Safe?
John Hopkins had a report online for 45 minutes where they tracked death rates and found no significant difference between any other year and this year in the US. Everything is perfectly safe... unless you're vitamin D deficient and not taking any and have comorbidities.
Oh. I love being right! :lol:
Government is giving away Vitamin D:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55108613
No proof it does anything, but does no harm. Just had me Cod LIver Oil. And found some Brazil nuts. Full of minerals.
been using it for about 6 months now. no idea if it helps but hey ho, it does at least act as a plcebo and as im not getting out much i am at least getting my dose... nowt wrong with a good dose eh?:eyebrows:
mine is made by gower..d3,k2
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 16:52
Safe?
John Hopkins had a report online for 45 minutes where they tracked death rates and found no significant difference between any other year and this year in the US. Everything is perfectly safe... unless you're vitamin D deficient and not taking any and have comorbidities.
Good..I'm glad everything is perfectly safe in the USA
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 17:03
Covid Free Vitamin D pills for 2.5 million vulnerable in England
I would hope they would be Covid free..
not according to the bmj.. https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3948
Covid Free Vitamin D pills for 2.5 million vulnerable in England
I would hope they would be Covid free..
i noticed since folk started taking them for covid, the price went up substancially... whats new eh ;)... i take one every 2 days to reduce costs and think its enough. one of the things we can struggle with up here is lack of sunshine.
The non-vulnerable get the ones that have Covid in them.
The trick is to eat all around the outside and leave the covid in the centre. Like the cat does when you put a tablet in his food.
The non-vulnerable get the ones that have Covid in them.
The trick is to eat all around the outside and leave the covid in the centre. Like the cat does when you put a tablet in his food.
lol yeah they are worlds worst for being difficult to con.. i had to break it up etc and put it in irrisistable gravy and meat. same with the border terrier..
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 17:15
not according to the bmj.. https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3948
I guess this reply is aimed at Jeremy's post...which reads
Safe?
John Hopkins had a report online for 45 minutes where they tracked death rates and found no significant difference between any other year and this year in the US. Everything is perfectly safe... unless you're vitamin D deficient and not taking any and have comorbidities.
I guess this reply is aimed at Jeremy's post...which reads
Safe?
John Hopkins had a report online for 45 minutes where they tracked death rates and found no significant difference between any other year and this year in the US. Everything is perfectly safe... unless you're vitamin D deficient and not taking any and have comorbidities.
what do i know? maybe i will stick to whisky... i know all about that, and its covid killing abilities ... sure as hell beats bleach:eyebrows:
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 17:23
what do i know? maybe i will stick to whisky... i know all about that, and its covid killing abilities ... sure as hell beats bleach:eyebrows:
Are you on the whisky right now Grant..??
Filterlab
28-11-2020, 17:25
...and have comorbidities.
[/B]
Jeremy Corbin followers?
Are you on the whisky right now Grant..??
i have one every night.. it chases away the demons ;)
No proof it does anything, but does no harm.
Apparently, the 'Plus' version, for an extra £1.25, increases your cock size by a full three inches, so she (or he?:eyebrows:), as your 'significant other', can now look forward to six inches of fun:D
Marco.
Apparently, the 'Plus' version, for an extra £1.25, increases your cock size by a full three inches, so she (or he?:eyebrows:), as your 'significant other', can now look forward to six inches of fun:D
Marco.
yeah the cheaper version shrinks it by a full 3 inches tho... you see if we were still in europe there would have been a warning :rolleyes:
yeah the cheaper version shrinks it by a full 3 inches tho... :
I feel sorry for those who can't afford to take the hit :D
I feel sorry for those who can't afford to take the hit :D
i dont need your damn pity;)
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 19:46
yeah the cheaper version shrinks it by a full 3 inches tho... you see if we were still in europe there would have been a warning :rolleyes:
Fuck :eek: Our lass says if I was three inches shorter...I'd be countersunk...:(
And found some Brazil nuts. Full of minerals.
And weight for weight, they're full of radioactive radium-228. :D
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 19:59
It would take 25,000 Brazil nuts in order to feel any health effects from the radiation
i noticed since folk started taking them for covid, the price went up substancially... whats new eh ;)... i take one every 2 days to reduce costs and think its enough. one of the things we can struggle with up here is lack of sunshine.
We take one 10ug tablet every day with our dinner. Vitamin D is generated in the skin by the action of sunlight, so during the winter months (October to April) the natural generation by this means is low. Obviously milk and dairy products contain vitamin D, but not enough to make up for the low production in the skin during the winter months.
And yes, I have noticed some 'panic buying' of vitamin D tablets at our local chemists (by some old girl, who is obviously unaware that she will soon be getting them for free).
It would take 25,000 Brazil nuts in order to feel any health effects from the radiation
Most of the radium in Brazil nuts is not retained in the body to do any harm.
But enough to set offf the radiation leakage detector and alarms at nuclear power stations, if one walks in with a bag of Brazil nuts in your pocket.
Brazil nuts are more of a digestive irritant than anything...
Maybe in the future it'll be like "remember when it was recommended to take vitamin D for decades but then no one did until it was the cure for fake pandemic for a real virus? they were such troglodytes"
if you're Caucasian and living in the northern hemisphere it's always been recommended to take Vit D supplement as you won't get enough from daylight. There's a shitload of studies been done going years back.
Obviously it isn't some magic bullet for Covid. That would be too easy. A bit like in 'War Of The Worlds'. 'They've all caught colds and died'. That was handy.
if you're Caucasian and living in the northern hemisphere it's always been recommended to take Vit D supplement as you won't get enough from daylight. There's a shitload of studies been done going years back.
Obviously it isn't some magic bullet for Covid. That would be too easy. A bit like in 'War Of The Worlds'. 'They've all caught colds and died'. That was handy.
No no you misunderstand, not a cure for when you're sick, a cure for stupid lockdowns that aren't helping anything (the result of a pandemic; and not recommended by any health authority).
mad-moon
28-11-2020, 22:18
No no you misunderstand, not a cure for when you're sick, a cure for stupid lockdowns that aren't helping anything (the result of a pandemic; and not recommended by any health authority).
Oh right...I fully understand now..:scratch:
All will become clear when you polish your nuts.
Marco.
Filterlab
28-11-2020, 22:35
Apparently, the 'Plus' version, for an extra £1.25, increases your cock size by a full three inches, so she (or he?:eyebrows:), as your 'significant other', can now look forward to six inches of fun:D
Marco.
£12.50 ready and waiting.
mad-moon
29-11-2020, 01:12
All will become clear when you polish your nuts.
Marco.
You're a clever man...you explain it to me...:popcorn:
I take a vitamin D capsule every other night before bed. Apparently, aside from the mood elevation in can provide, it also increases melatonin and so i find i sleep better on it.
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 07:03
According to the Kellogg Institute of Breakfastology, 30g of cornflakes give 50% of daily RI of vitamin D. I get through a kilo box per week, so I should be ok. Box doesn't say anything about being a fat bastard though.
According to the Kellogg Institute of Breakfastology, 30g of cornflakes give 50% of daily RI of vitamin D. I get through a kilo box per week, so I should be ok. Box doesn't say anything about being a fat bastard though.
I opt for the Crunchy Nut version - the king of breakfast cereals - 'Only sugar has more sugar'
walpurgis
29-11-2020, 08:29
'Tunnocks' chocolate wafers mate, if you need a sugar top-up! Can't be beaten for noshability.
'Put on psy-war ops. Make it loud!'
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/british-army-will-be-deployed-to-tackle-anti-vaccine-propaganda/ar-BB1bshxj?ocid=msedgntp
walpurgis
29-11-2020, 08:38
Not sure that'll work. I mean, the Army can't really lob mortars and stuff about on the internet and media.
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 08:39
I opt for the Crunchy Nut version - the king of breakfast cereals - 'Only sugar has more sugar'
Crunchy nut cornflakes - the trouble is they're too damn crunchy, and I have to be in the mood for that much effort. So I usually have my corn flakes with hot milk. the downside is that they collapse so much, and you get through a lot of cornflakes that way. So I often add a couple of Weetabix for ballast :)
walpurgis
29-11-2020, 08:44
I usually have my corn flakes with hot milk. the downside is that they collapse so much, and you get through a lot of cornflakes that way. So I often add a couple of Weetabix for ballast :)
I do that too. A bit of meusli can be good in the mix.
Not sure that'll work. I mean, the Army can't really lob mortars and stuff about on the internet and media.
No they'll find out where you live and launch a dawn attack. They'll come in low out of the rising sun. There's always a good offshore breeze in the mornings.
walpurgis
29-11-2020, 08:57
:)
Marco and Anthony need to be setting up their defences now. I'd recommend a sandbagged emplacement on the roof with a crappy vintage French machine gun mounted in it. And a bridge made of bamboo. (That doesn't serve any useful function but they'll enjoy blowing it up).
walpurgis
29-11-2020, 09:47
There's always 'drone warfare'. I'll send my mate ZeroMan round, he can drone on and on and on and bore anybody to death.
(ZeroMan is a real person, so watch out! :eek:)
On the subject of supplements I'd also recommend taking zinc/magnesium supplement a couple of times a week to boost immune system and for overall vitality, mood and energy I'd recommend Ashwagandha and Shilajit. These are commonly used in Ayurvedic medicine and have many benefits for men particularly as we get on in years.
i get magnesium in my filtered coffee water i make up.. improves crema too and taste:)
I take a multivitamin, has everything in it. About a fiver for a month's supply.
https://mailchi.mp/bigbrotherwatch/last-chance-to-take-action-6471768?e=9509ffdbfa
Don't let the bastards use your personal data to spy on you, and control you - or try and remove your human right to protest!
Marco.
mad-moon
29-11-2020, 15:37
https://mailchi.mp/bigbrotherwatch/last-chance-to-take-action-6471768?e=9509ffdbfa
Don't let the bastards use your personal data to spy on you, and control you - or try and remove your human right to protest!
Marco.
"Anarchy in the U.K."
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 15:38
Marco! Put down that laptop, the carrots are burning!
Thanks for the heads up though, I won't let them :)
According to the Kellogg Institute of Breakfastology, 30g of cornflakes give 50% of daily RI of vitamin D. I get through a kilo box per week, so I should be ok. Box doesn't say anything about being a fat bastard though.
No doubt the 50% daily RI of vitamin D is provided by the milk you pour on the cornflakes.
I have always loved the old Corn Flakes. Excellent with milk, yoghurt and fruit. :lol:
Apparently better than toast for breakfast. Wheat and Bread just makes me feel bloated.
But, TBH, Egg, Bacon and Tomatoes is just the best start to the day.
No doubt the 50% daily RI of vitamin D is provided by the milk you pour on the cornflakes.
need to get back to trying the old corn flakes:eyebrows:
I have always loved the old Corn Flakes. Excellent with milk, yoghurt and fruit. :lol:
Apparently better than toast for breakfast. Wheat and Bread just makes me feel bloated.
But, TBH, Egg, Bacon and Tomatoes is just the best start to the day.
interestingly corn flakes were once made of wheat:eyebrows:
Never liked that sort of muck (cereal), mainly because I hate cold 'raw' milk... Ugh!:spew:
Toast/butter & jam for me instead for breakfast, or if I want to treat myself, a nice croissant or pain au chocolat, to soak up my morning cappuccino!:)
As for Vitamin D, I get that naturally from the foods I eat, including fruit such as bananas, plus fresh orange juice, and all the (hot and frothy) cow's milk I have in my milky coffees!:D
Don't need to take any supplements.
Marco.
Wot - no Spam?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Monty_Python_Live_02-07-14_13_04_42_%2814598710791%29.jpg/800px-Monty_Python_Live_02-07-14_13_04_42_%2814598710791%29.jpg
Egg and bacon
Egg, sausage and bacon
Egg and Spam
Egg, bacon and Spam
Egg, bacon, sausage and Spam
Spam, bacon, sausage and Spam
Spam, egg, Spam, Spam, bacon and Spam
Spam, Spam, Spam, egg and Spam
Spam, sausage, Spam, Spam, Spam, bacon, Spam, tomato and Spam
Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, baked beans, Spam, Spam, Spam and Spam
Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, garnished with truffle pâté, brandy and a fried egg on top, and Spam.
English Breakfast proven to be 100% effective against Covid-19 germ. :lol:
French and their Croissants and Coffee dying in droves. :(
We can dream.
Lol... The staunch British 'egg & chip' brigade abroad have always really amused me.
Go on holiday abroad to some lovely country, where the food (if done right) is 10-times better than it is here normally, yet resolutely refuse to eat anything but bland British stodge, which is even worse than it is 'back home'!:D:mental:
In such instances, the phrase: 'away and educate yer palates, ya clueless chavs', is never far from my lips:eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Wot - no Spam?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Monty_Python_Live_02-07-14_13_04_42_%2814598710791%29.jpg/800px-Monty_Python_Live_02-07-14_13_04_42_%2814598710791%29.jpg
Egg and bacon
Egg, sausage and bacon
Egg and Spam
Egg, bacon and Spam
Egg, bacon, sausage and Spam
Spam, bacon, sausage and Spam
Spam, egg, Spam, Spam, bacon and Spam
Spam, Spam, Spam, egg and Spam
Spam, sausage, Spam, Spam, Spam, bacon, Spam, tomato and Spam
Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, baked beans, Spam, Spam, Spam and Spam
Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce, garnished with truffle pâté, brandy and a fried egg on top, and Spam.
lol, Special Army Meat was the term my dad used.. the gi's had loads of it... a lot of the new private housing schemes up here used to be called the spam estate or spam valley as they spent so mucjh on mortgagethey couldnt afford to eat
a lot of the new private housing schemes up here used to be called the spam estate or spam valley as they spent so mucjh on mortgagethey couldnt afford to eat
Yeah, lol... I remember that! There was a posh part of Glasgow's south side, called Newton Mearns, which was often referred to as spam valley. Fukkin' twats!:D
We had spam in school... Tasted it once, and that was enough for me, for life!
Marco.
Most mornings I start the day with a big bowl of this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GiW5QcF3L._AC_SL1006_.jpg
with a good dollop of Skyr yogurt and cold milk.
https://www.straight.com/files/v3/styles/gs_standard/public/images/16/04/pcskyr.png?itok=Km1Kqik7
Never liked that sort of muck (cereal), mainly because I hate cold 'raw' milk... Ugh!:spew:
Toast/butter & jam for me instead for breakfast, or if I want to treat myself, a nice croissant or pain au chocolat, to soak up my morning cappuccino!:)
As for Vitamin D, I get that naturally from the foods I eat, including fruit such as bananas, plus fresh orange juice, and all the (hot and frothy) cow's milk I have in my milky coffees!:D
Don't need to take any supplements.
Marco.
There are probably very few people who actually 'need' to take supplements. But I still belive many can benefit from them.
That's why I eat cereal with Brazil nuts to get my full RI of Radium 228. ;)
Most mornings I start the day with a big bowl of this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51GiW5QcF3L._AC_SL1006_.jpg
Del likes (and has) the one in the blue packet:)
The Dorset stuff is very good quality.
Marco.
hard to beat porridge tbh
There are probably very few people who actually 'need' to take supplements. But I still belive many can benefit from them.
Indeed, Rich. It's called having a balanced and healthy diet. Too many folks just fill themselves with shit, and then wonder why they're always ill!:doh:
But yeah, supplements are fine if you need them, although a little expensive. You could easily spend £100, in the likes of Holland & Barrett, without blinking an eye!!:eek:
Marco.
hard to beat porridge tbh
Aye, sick/gruel in a bowl (especially the traditional way with salt)l!!:spew::spew:
:nono: The only way for me porridge will stay down, is with a little cream and some Drambuie!:D
My dad likes it, though:)
Marco.
Depends how you make it. Rice version is good too.
hard to beat porridge tbh
True, but I just don't like it. Was made to eat it in the winter when I was a kid - it was just about palatable if it had a big dollop of jam put on it.
But then I dislike milk puddings as well.
Depends how you make it. Rice version is good too.
Just not something I was brought up with. I get that it's good for you, though. For brekky, I'm either a 'continental' kinda guy, bread, butter and jam/croissants, fruit. yogurt, cold meats and cheeses, etc, or a full-on fry up. I don't really 'do' anything else:)
Marco.
walpurgis
29-11-2020, 17:49
hard to beat porridge tbh
I really used to enjoy porridge, not had it for years though. Got mountains of other cereals, so not much point getting any. I loved it with golden syrup when I was a nipper.
I really used to enjoy porridge, not had it for years though. Got mountains of other cereals, so not much point getting any. I loved it with golden syrup when I was a nipper.Maple syrup and pecans too
AW, come off it. Porridge is rubbish. :lol:
Best food I ever tasted was in the Greek Islands. Beef Tomatoes, Olives and Cheese. And wine.
28932
Elisabeth liked the old Mythos beer too...
Lol... I can see that. She looks 'wired to the moon'!:D:eyebrows:
Marco.
Maple syrup and pecans too
I like that with ice-cream and pancakes:)
Ye can keep yer porridge:ner:;)
Marco.
I like "Flahavans" porridge oats (https://www.flahavans.co.uk/product/flahavans-organic-oats/) - I started having porridge in an attempt to reduce my cholesterol levels -tried various others and they were tasteless/gritty/horrible.
Most mornings I now have porridge with semi-skimmed milk, ghoji berries and crushed walnuts, very tasty and my cholesterol did stabilise/reduce very slightly. Surprised me how much I enjoy porridge as when I was a kid I always looked on it as a bit of a punishment.
AW, come off it. Porridge is rubbish. :lol:
Best food I ever tasted was in the Greek Islands. Beef Tomatoes, Olives and Cheese. And wine.
28932
Elisabeth liked the old Mythos beer too...
Mythos is OK, but I much prefer Fix (Greek: Φιξ)
https://www.agoragreekdelicacies.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/4/6/4617018609.png
But my favourite Greek beer, brewed in Santorini, but available in Athenes and a few other places in Greece, is Crazy Donkey (Yellow label):
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/6J-0sy4d0cTALvj3TNw2AbeSI4tGIkthDAGjqIR9sRHOX97Sa_8yu c9FMonPTmLn_hI1Bb7p9xhaF4C1dh1EP4cY8S7i6pm48A
Avoid the Crazy Donkey - it's far too strong for hot weather, and it's only sold in large bottles.
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 21:15
No doubt the 50% daily RI of vitamin D is provided by the milk you pour on the cornflakes.
No, I think the figure quoted would be for bare cornflakes, I don't think they could put speculation as to how you serve the cornflakes in print. Taking your theory to a silly degree they could quote ridiculously high vitamin C figures based on an assumption that a lot of folk put fruit on their cereal.
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 21:21
Never liked that sort of muck (cereal), mainly because I hate cold 'raw' milk... Ugh!:spew:
Toast/butter & jam for me instead for breakfast, or if I want to treat myself, a nice croissant or pain au chocolat, to soak up my morning cappuccino!:)
As for Vitamin D, I get that naturally from the foods I eat, including fruit such as bananas, plus fresh orange juice, and all the (hot and frothy) cow's milk I have in my milky coffees!:D
Don't need to take any supplements.
Marco.
No better way to start the hoity toity posh-boy day :)
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 21:25
I have always loved the old Corn Flakes. Excellent with milk, yoghurt and fruit. :lol:
Apparently better than toast for breakfast. Wheat and Bread just makes me feel bloated.
But, TBH, Egg, Bacon and Tomatoes is just the best start to the day.
Yeah, cooked breakfast is just the best :) When I used to do archery competitions and would be out all day, I always started out with a "Full English", and it kept me going like toast or crassonts never could...
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 21:31
Lol... The staunch British 'egg & chip' brigade abroad have always really amused me.
Go on holiday abroad to some lovely country, where the food (if done right) is 10-times better than it is here normally, yet resolutely refuse to eat anything but bland British stodge, which is even worse than it is 'back home'!:D:mental:
In such instances, the phrase: 'away and educate yer palates, ya clueless chavs', is never far from my lips:eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Yeah, growing up where I did, you wouldn't have thrived. :D
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 21:37
Aye, sick/gruel in a bowl (especially the traditional way with salt)l!!:spew::spew:
:nono: The only way for me porridge will stay down, is with a little cream and some Drambuie!:D
My dad likes it, though:)
Marco.
:eek: And you call yourself Scottish? I'm beginning to think your dad found you floating down the Clyde in a basket :)
Yeah, growing up where I did, you wouldn't have thrived. :D
Lol - so where were you dragged up, then?:D
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 21:42
Depends how you make it. Rice version is good too.
Never heard of that. I do like me porridge. I reckon I'm more Scottish than ten Marcos all wearing kilts :) Just need to work on the accent a bit. Bernard Manning was apt to say that if a dog is born in a stable, doesn't make it a horse...
:eek: And you call yourself Scottish? I'm beginning to think your dad found you floating down the Clyde in a basket :)
Dear oh dear, daftee... I thought you were more observant than that... I'm not Scottish. I was born there, and am proud of my Scottish roots, but I'm Italian. Scottish nationality, Italian ethnicity - learn that and remember it in future!;)
Pretty much the whole of my family tree is Italian.
And, as far as my eating habits are concerned, they're pretty much 100% 'European' (mainly Italian/French). I don't really have a British (or Scottish) palate, in that respect, although there are a few Scottish 'delicacies' I like such as Lorne sausage and GOOD haggis):)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 22:00
Lol - so where were you dragged up, then?:D
Marco.
Brookfield estate, Preston.
Pretty much dragged myself up, from about the age of 7. Mum and dad provided the essentials of course, and we always had a good Christmas. But after dad buggered off and mum had a breakdown which put her in a mental hospital for a couple of months, we were too poor for cereal so had broken up pieces of bread with milk and sugar. 'Pobs' we called them.
When I was 11, I went on a school holiday to Newlands Youth Hostel near Keswick. My mum had saved 10 shillings a week to get the £7 10 shillings cost together. Each morning you could either have porridge, or what I later came to call 'spoilt brat' cereal (rice krispies etc.) most kids chose the cereals, leaving me to enjoy as much porridge as I could fit in. Liked it ever since.
Well you did ask :)
No, I think the figure quoted would be for bare cornflakes, I don't think they could put speculation as to how you serve the cornflakes in print. Taking your theory to a silly degree they could quote ridiculously high vitamin C figures based on an assumption that a lot of folk put fruit on their cereal.
Yes - but no-one consumes dry corn flakes, whereas many do without additional fruit etc. Anyway, it is only now that Kelloggs have doubled the vitamin D content of their cornflakes to provide half the RI.
Pigmy Pony
29-11-2020, 22:08
Dear oh dear, daftee... I thought you were more observant than that... I'm not Scottish. I was born there, and am proud of my Scottish roots, but I'm Italian. Scottish nationality, Italian ethnicity - learn that and remember it in future!;)
Pretty much the whole of my family tree is Italian.
And, as far as my eating habits are concerned, they're pretty much 100% 'European' (mainly Italian/French). I don't really have a British (or Scottish) palate, in that respect:)
Marco.
I know all that, you've told us often enough :) My comment about dog-born-in-stable alludes to that, so it's your observation skills that need sharpening :ner:
Interesting, and thanks for sharing. No doubt your upbringing has given you a good grounding in life, good morals and a healthy work ethic, all of which is good:)
I had a rather different (pretty much middle-class) upbringing, although I hate such labels, and was a spoiled 'only child'. However, my dad was very strict, and once I was an adult (after 16, really), never gave me anything without working for it, and also taught me the value of money.
In that respect, I wasn't really spoiled in terms of material possessions, although I never wanted for anything, but rather in terms of being given attention and fussed over/worried about, especially by my mum, who was the archetypal housewife and mother/wife (her sole role until death), and the one who looked after me most while my dad was at work.
Italian families are fiercely protective of their children, especially of their safety [VERY risk averse], and so always want to know where they are, at any given time, and are very strict about what they can do and where they can go.
So unlike often with British kids, you'd never have seen me wandering around the streets at all times of night, unaccompanied. That was the main sort of area where I was 'spoiled' - that and having access to my mum's superb cooking every day, which is partly why I'm such a foodie now!:cool:
Marco.
I know all that, you've told us often enough :) My comment about dog-born-in-stable alludes to that, so it's your observation skills that need sharpening :ner:
Soz, haven't a clue what you're on about.... :scratch:
Well, then you shouldn't be surprised that I hate porridge!:ner: I hate black pudding too, but that's not exclusively Scottish, or 'chip butties' [in Italy we have a golden rule of only ever having ONE form of carb at a time on your plate].
Basically, I can't stand any kind of stodge! I like food to have a lightness of touch/some finesse, not be too heavy, but at the same time packed full of flavour:)
Marco.
Italian families are fiercely protective of their children, especially of their safety [VERY risk averse], and so always want to know where they are, at any given time, and are very strict about what they can do and where they can go.
So unlike often with British kids, you'd never have seen me wandering around the streets at all times of night, unaccompanied. That was the main sort of area where I was 'spoiled' - that and having access to my mum's superb cooking every day, which is partly why I'm such a foodie now!:cool:
Marco.
I think that is more down to your "middle class" background than ethnicity - my best mate Mario and I were all over the place day and night from about the age of about ten (maybe younger, it was a long time ago). Carried on like that until we hit our teens and had a bit of a punch up. Happy days:)
Lol, arguably yes, Guy, but that's not representative of the experiences I'm alluding to. The 'posh' part of Glasgow (and street) we lived in at the time was populated by similar 'middle class' families, all of whom enjoyed a good standard of living, but I was the only one out of all my friends who (up until 16) had to be in for 9pm.
And even after that, when my dad bought me my first motorbike (well I say 'bought', but the cost was deducted from the wages I got working in his chip shop), I had to be in for 10pm, and my mum was always worried sick until she seen me coming home safe! And things were exactly the same for other Italian kids I knew back then.
Italian parents are eternal worriers!!:rolleyes:
The other major culture difference, compared with British kids, was at meal times... During the school holidays, I'd be called in for my lunch sharp at 12 noon, and sat down for a good 2 hours (as meal times are the most important part of the day in Italian culture, and lunch was always a full 3-course affair).
And I can remember the door bell frequently going, where one of my friends would be asking if I was coming out to play football again, and my mum telling them, yes as soon as he's finished his Tiramisu!:D
Whereas, when they went for their lunch, they were in and out in about ten minutes....
Marco.
P.S Was Mario also an only child, like me? If not, that may also have had a bearing on matters, in terms of the freedom he was allowed.
Love the off-topicness of this thread. Think most of us have lost interest in the boring YOU-KNOW-WHAT! :lol:
It led me to buy some spinach and broccoli yesterday to improve my diet. You can get stuck in a rut.
Everybody eats better than the British. And we have lost the art of sitting down together for lunch and dinner.
The weekend has been killed off to in favour of 24-7 working.
We used to have great food in Southern France. Always coffee and fresh baguette for breakfast. The morning trip to the bakery was part of the routine. "Bonjour Mesdames, Messieurs!" in the queue. Our farmer host would always bring a rose melon over at 6PM to start us off along for supper with the local Rose wine. Then the farm dogs hung around looking hungry and drooling for the barbecue.
I think we started with La Salade. And the melon last. He seriously told us off for using Purple garlic. Only eaten by Les Parisiennes, who were likely to get speeding tickets locally at the first sight of a Numero 75 number plate. Explained that Rose garlic had a more subtle flavour.
Very civilised.
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 08:10
Well, we Brits do like garlic bread. It's the future you know :)
Well, we Brits do like garlic bread. It's the future you know :)
Don't forget filled crust pizza :rfl:
Was Mario an only child, daftee? I did ask!:ner:;)
Marco.
My comment about dog-born-in-stable alludes to that, so it's your observation skills that need sharpening ]
And you still haven't explained this, super-daftee ^^ :hmm:
A) I never saw said comment, and b) I've no idea what a "dog-born-in-stable" is.
Marco.
The British are barbarians by European standards. :scratch:
I often wondered why the French always turned their heads round at me in the Boulangerie (Bakery).
Was it because they immediately detected my Englishness? And had bitter memories of Waterloo and Trafalgar?
NO. It was simply that I didn't say "Bonjour" to everybody in the Queue.
Manners are expected in Continental Europe. :lol:
anthonyTD
30-11-2020, 10:11
Just took me about half hour to catch up on all the banter! :eek:
Anyway, a few things, firstly; as Marco has already said, I too am not an anti-vaxer, and i also respect and understand the reasoning behind those who will accept the coming role out of a Vaccine, and i wish you well with what ever decision you make when that time comes :)
2nd, for my part in only putting up parts of full articles; that's mainly done for those not wanting to read through the whole thing here, and for those who are interested, just ask, and i will point you to the whole article, as i have done already when asked.
And finaly, the info on vitamins given here is very helpful for those who spend a lot of time indoors, no matter what the season, i take high doses of vitamin D, also Mgnesium, and Zinc, vitamin C too, i also have my cornflakes in the morning, and sometimes at night too. :)
A...
Was Mario an only child, daftee? I did ask!:ner:;)
Marco.
Sorry, didn't notice:
Far from it! (that may have been why they were not quite so protective about the boys - they did have a daughter "Pina" (Giusepinna?) who may have been more protected:))
From memory - Tony, Mario, Roberto, Pietro and a much younger son,(possibly Marco) but can't remember his name.
The father was what I thought of as "typical" Italian (if such a thing exists) - worked bloody hard in local factory where he got hold of used glass carboys (had been used for sulphuric acid I think). After rinsing he would use then to make wine - he used to go to London to get a load of grapes when in season.
Grew loads of vegetables in his garden (strange to me as my mum grew flowers, so that was what I expected in a garden). He also had a lean to (would be called a conservatory nowadays :)) Where he grew tomatoes and hung strings of onions to dry - the smell in summer was beautiful, I still get taken back to those times when I go in my greenhouse in Summer.
I also remember the father being very disparaging about English "salads" - "rabbit food" in his view, he wouldn't consider a salad without a dressing of some sort, olive oil was very new to me in the '60's.
Sorry to ramble/thread crap, but lots of memories (Mario and I did get up to a few dodgy things :D)
Far from it! (that may have been why they were not quite so protective about the boys - they did have a daughter "Pina" (Giusepinna?) who may have been more protected:))
From memory - Tony, Mario, Roberto, Pietro and a much younger son,(possibly Marco) but can't remember his name.
Ah that makes sense... It was quite different for me, being an only child (and son). I was very much fussed over and protected, as you can imagine, especially as my mum had me quite late (and had already experienced a miscarriage) and was unlikely to have any more kids, so I was the 'golden boy', as it were, and that included in the eyes of my grandparents.
The father was what I thought of as "typical" Italian (if such a thing exists) - worked bloody hard in local factory where he got hold of used glass carboys (had been used for sulphuric acid I think). After rinsing he would use then to make wine - he used to go to London to get a load of grapes when in season.
Grew loads of vegetables in his garden (strange to me as my mum grew flowers, so that was what I expected in a garden). He also had a lean to (would be called a conservatory nowadays :)) Where he grew tomatoes and hung strings of onions to dry - the smell in summer was beautiful, I still get taken back to those times when I go in my greenhouse in Summer.
Yeah that is pretty typical, and my dad did similar, although he never bothered with trying to make wine, which would've been near-impossible with the climate in Scotland!:D
But gardens and growing your own produce *is* definitely a BIG part of Italian life, not only Italian, but European life, especially those coming from warm climates. In that respect. it's pretty much unheard of not to have a garden and/or the ability in some way to grow your own produce, which is why I was brought up on food made with fresh herbs and fresh vegetables - in my culture such things are very much the norm.
Tins, packets and/or frozen foods/ready meals would only ever be a LAST (and largely undesired) resort! And other sacrifices if necessary, financially or otherwise, would always be made WAY before anything relating to food, as eating well (and healthily) was always *the* most important thing.
I also remember the father being very disparaging about English "salads" - "rabbit food" in his view, he wouldn't consider a salad without a dressing of some sort, olive oil was very new to me in the '60's.
Lol - I know *exactly* what he means and agree; indeed it's a long-standing and well-established 'moan' Italians have about British food: the 'dry' and bland, totally unadventurous salads, and the crap quality of the bread!! The latter, however, has improved massively in recent years as folks have (thankfully) become more discerning.
The olive oil thing is funny, as certainly up in Scotland in those days, olive oil was only available in chemists, to treat earache!:lol: Whereas, we'd either be bringing shedloads of it back from Italy by car or using our local Italian delis, some of which were owned by our cousins. Therefore, back then, olive oil, salami, Parma ham, Parmesan cheese, fresh coffee beans, etc, etc, were all very much used and enjoyed everyday!
Sorry to ramble/thread crap, but lots of memories (Mario and I did get up to a few dodgy things :D)
Lol - as did i! Regardless of the 'curfews' imposed on me, which I didn't always stick to either, and got a slap for off of my dad!
I certainly was no 'goody two-shoes', I can assure you, and got up to all sorts, especially when I reached 17. I did live with my parents though until I was 27, so was always used to having that level of parental care, all my meals cooked for me and clothes washed and ironed, etc, although I did contribute to the household bills.
As you can imagine though, when I met Del and announced that I was leaving home, and then to go and live in Wales, it didn't, erm, go down too well!:doh:
Marco.
Ah that makes sense... It was quite different for me, being an only child (and son). I was very much fussed over and protected, as you can imagine, especially as my mum had me quite late (and had already experienced a miscarriage) and so was unlikely to have any more kids, so I was the 'golden boy', as it were, and that included in the eyes of my grandparents.
Yeah that is pretty typical, and my dad did similar, although he never bothered with trying to make wine, which would've been near-impossible with the climate in Scotland!:D
But gardens and growing your own produce *is* definitely a BIG part of Italian life, not only Italian, but European life, especially those coming from warm climates. In that respect. it's pretty much unheard of not to have a garden and/or the ability in some way to grow your own produce, which is why I was brought up on food made with fresh herbs and fresh vegetables - in my culture such things are very much the norm.
Tins, packets and/or frozen foods/ready meals would only ever be a LAST (and largely undesired) resort! And other sacrifices if necessary, financially or otherwise, would always be made WAY before anything relating to food, as eating well (and healthily) was always *the* most important thing.
Lol - I know *exactly* what he means and agree; indeed it's a long-standing and well-established 'moan' Italians have about British food: the 'dry' and bland, totally unadventurous salads, and the crap quality of the bread!! The latter, however, has improved massively in recent years as folks have (thankfully) become more discerning.
The olive oil thing is funny, as certainly up in Scotland in those days, olive oil was only available in chemists, to treat earache!:lol: Whereas, we'd either be bringing shedloads of it back from Italy by car or using our local Italian delis, some of which were owned by our cousins. Therefore, back then, olive oil, salami, Parma ham, Parmesan cheese, etc, etc, were all very much used and enjoyed everyday!
Lol - as did i! Regardless of the 'curfews' imposed on me, which I didn't always stick to either, and got a slap for off of my dad!
I certainly was no 'goody two-shoes', I can assure you, and got up to all sorts, especially when I reached 17. I did live with my parents though until I was 27, so was always used to having that level of parental care, all my meals cooked for me and clothes washed and ironed, etc, although I did contribute to the household bills.
As you can imagine though, when I met Del and announced that I was leaving home, and then to go and live in Wales, it didn't, erm, go down too well!:doh:
Marco.
mum had me fairly late too... I wasnt apparently planned in any way, shape or form :doh:;)
Are we all late arrivals at this forum? My mum was advised to stop. But had me.
Looks like Marco or his wife has to drive down the Wrexham road into England after 6 to get a drink.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/55128511
It's just like old times. :lol:
mum had me fairly late too... I wasnt apparently planned in any way, shape or form :doh:;)
Lol... So THAT explains it!:D
No, I was very much planned, especially when my mum had lost the first one, and what would've been my brother, but of course had little notion later of the monster she'd created!:lol:
Marco.
Are we all late arrivals at this forum? My mum was advised to stop. But had me.
Looks like Marco or his wife has to drive down the Wrexham road into England after 6 to get a drink.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/55128511
It's just like old times. :lol:
I know, lol. It's not something that will affect us much though, as we're not big drinkers or pub goers, and when so it's mostly for food. However, if necessary (and we're allowed) England is only 20 mins away!:)
TBH, what's pissed me off is the behaviour of all the piss heads who brought this about!:wanker:
Marco.
Lol... So THAT explains it!:D
No, I was very much planned, especially when my mum had lost the first one, and what would've been my brother, but of course had little notion later of the monster she'd created!:lol:
Marco.
i remember her keeping a semi straight face when she added, i was a lovely surprise :lolsign::lolsign:
anthonyTD
30-11-2020, 16:50
Anyway, back on track, if you watch just one link here, then i would recomend this one.
Its from Mike Yeadon, and it discusses why Experts on Viruses disagree with politicians, its a very calm, and easy listen, but i feel it has a lot of good, and well informed information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bX-wFVBP94
I was watching Mike Yeadon tonight, and thankyou, Tony. Evidently a brainy bloke. You don't get First Class Honours without being big on smarts.
Just my mind, but I fancied his motorbike too, A Suzuki triple 2 stroke if I have not lost my skill. But minus a back wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bX-wFVBP94
But really he is telling us not to lose too much sleep over Covid-19. Just another Winter germ. I am less on panic than a few months back.
A law called the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984
, which applies in England and Wales, allows public health measures to be taken in circumstances like the current coronavirus outbreak.
However, it explicitly states that regulations cannot require a person to undertake medical treatment, including vaccination
. This provision remains in place. The Coronavirus Act
introduced in March 2020 extended this prohibition to Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Nadhim Zahawi, the health minister in charge of the vaccine rollout, told the BBC today that the vaccine won’t be compulsory.
Grant, seriously I no longer care about vaccines. But will have a jab if it helps others. Because I have a sense of civic duty. Don't want to be suspected of killing anybody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bX-wFVBP94
Nasty germ, no doubt. But we are going to get through this. Time to get on with Life. :)
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 17:59
And you still haven't explained this, super-daftee ^^ :hmm:
A) I never saw said comment, and b) I've no idea what a "dog-born-in-stable" is.
Marco.
That's because you didn't read post #5166 properly. Pay attention at the back! :doh:
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 18:04
The British are barbarians by European standards. :scratch:
I often wondered why the French always turned their heads round at me in the Boulangerie (Bakery).
Was it because they immediately detected my Englishness? And had bitter memories of Waterloo and Trafalgar?
NO. It was simply that I didn't say "Bonjour" to everybody in the Queue.
Manners are expected in Continental Europe. :lol:
No, it's because you bought every last "flan patissiere" in the shop, and they detected your greedy-pigness :)
Grant, seriously I no longer care about vaccines. But will have a jab if it helps others. Because I have a sense of civic duty. Don't want to be suspected of killing anybody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bX-wFVBP94
Nasty germ, no doubt. But we are going to get through this. Time to get on with Life. :)
vaccines are the only way out of this trap. it will help greatly in herd imunity and reduce in the "at risk" groups as well as general population. Interestlungly tho(and i think this may be accidental", it will be the "at risk" group who will trial it and die of it instead of covid if its not safe..
Hows that for Catch 22
Moderna is filing for US and European emergency regulatory approval of its coronavirus vaccine so that it can be recommended for widespread use.
Regulators will look at trial data for the mRNA vaccine and decide if it is safe and effective enough to recommend for roll out.
Clinical studies show the jab is more than 94% effective at protecting people from becoming ill with Covid-19.
Pfizer, which has a similar jab, has already filed for the same US approval.
UK regulators are also reviewing data on the Pfizer vaccine, as well as another type of Covid vaccine from AstraZenca and Oxford University for emergency approval.
Moderna says it hopes to gain UK approval soon, now that it has trial data from 30,000 volunteers - including high risk groups like the elderly - that suggests it works.
In those studies, 15,000 people received the real vaccine while the other participants got placebo injections. No serious side effects were reported.
During the studies, 185 people in the placebo group fell ill with Covid-19, and some severely so.
In comparison, there were 11 cases in the vaccine group and none were severe.
Full trial data has not been released, but will be published in a peer-reviewed journal in due course.
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 18:29
Moderna is filing for US and European emergency regulatory approval of its coronavirus vaccine so that it can be recommended for widespread use.
Regulators will look at trial data for the mRNA vaccine and decide if it is safe and effective enough to recommend for roll out.
Clinical studies show the jab is more than 94% effective at protecting people from becoming ill with Covid-19.
Pfizer, which has a similar jab, has already filed for the same US approval.
UK regulators are also reviewing data on the Pfizer vaccine, as well as another type of Covid vaccine from AstraZenca and Oxford University for emergency approval.
Moderna says it hopes to gain UK approval soon, now that it has trial data from 30,000 volunteers - including high risk groups like the elderly - that suggests it works.
In those studies, 15,000 people received the real vaccine while the other participants got placebo injections. No serious side effects were reported.
During the studies, 185 people in the placebo group fell ill with Covid-19, and some severely so.
In comparison, there were 11 cases in the vaccine group and none were severe.
Full trial data has not been released, but will be published in a peer-reviewed journal in due course.
Looks pretty good to me Grant, and can't come soon enough :)
walpurgis
30-11-2020, 19:03
Looks pretty good to me Grant, and can't come soon enough :)
My thoughts too.
mad-moon
30-11-2020, 19:05
Moderna is filing for US and European emergency regulatory approval of its coronavirus vaccine so that it can be recommended for widespread use.
Regulators will look at trial data for the mRNA vaccine and decide if it is safe and effective enough to recommend for roll out.
Clinical studies show the jab is more than 94% effective at protecting people from becoming ill with Covid-19.
Pfizer, which has a similar jab, has already filed for the same US approval.
UK regulators are also reviewing data on the Pfizer vaccine, as well as another type of Covid vaccine from AstraZenca and Oxford University for emergency approval.
Moderna says it hopes to gain UK approval soon, now that it has trial data from 30,000 volunteers - including high risk groups like the elderly - that suggests it works.
In those studies, 15,000 people received the real vaccine while the other participants got placebo injections. No serious side effects were reported.
During the studies, 185 people in the placebo group fell ill with Covid-19, and some severely so.
In comparison, there were 11 cases in the vaccine group and none were severe.
Full trial data has not been released, but will be published in a peer-reviewed journal in due course.
wow...that looks pretty damned good to me too..now get your arses to Tyne and Wear..and stick Mr Moon with it....
That's because you didn't read post #5166 properly. Pay attention at the back! :doh:
Ah right... I saw that, but it didn't really register at the time. It's not a phrase I've ever heard before. Anyway... At the THIRD time of asking: what do you think of your new avatar?:ner::ner:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 19:36
Ah right... I saw that, but it didn't really register at the time. It's not a phrase I've ever heard before. Anyway... At the THIRD time of asking: what do you think of your new avatar?:ner::ner:
Marco.
Bloody hell, you're high maintenance! I've already replied on another thread! But I'll say it again: Yes it looks very classy - is it Laura Ashley?
And that "phrase" wasn't actually a phrase, but one of Bernard Manning's racist jokes. Seemed apt to me, but not in the nasty way Manning intended.
As for the vaccines, if you think they're safe, then fill your boots, chaps... What would you expect the news to be though, since they're desperate for a high take up: that they're UNSAFE?:D
However, you're missing the main point, and that's how safe they'll be in the longer term, one, two, three years or more down the line, and in that respect whether there'll be any 'unpleasant surprises' (read as nasty side-effects), due to them having only been assessed for safety in the short term...
It's all right for you old bastards lol, with various health issues, but some of us have got many decades of good living still to do!!:ner::eyebrows:;)
Marco.
Bloody hell, you're high maintenance! I've already replied on another thread! But I'll say it again: Yes it looks very classy - is it Laura Ashley?
Lol - on another thread? What's wrong with the one where the question was posed?:ner:
Anyway, yes, Miss Ashley's best is all I'll use to wipe the excrement from my posterior.
And that "phrase" wasn't actually a phrase, but one of Bernard Manning's racist jokes. Seemed apt to me, but not in the nasty way Manning intended.
Not particularly a fan of Manning, so am not really familiar with his work. Therefore, that was the first time I'd heard said 'joke'.
Marco.
mad-moon
30-11-2020, 19:50
As for the vaccines, if you think it's safe, fill your boots, chaps... What would you expect the news to be, since they're desperate for a high take up: that it's unsafe?:D
However, you're missing the main point, and that's how safe they'll be in the longer term, one, two or three years down the line, and in that respect whether there'll be any 'unpleasant surprises'...
It's all right for you old bastards lol, with various health issues, but some of us have got many decades of good living still to enjoy!!:ner::eyebrows:;)
Marco.
That's if the powers that be...don't shoot you...;)
Indeed, aye, there's always that.... But first they'd have to get past all my 'special armaments':guns::guns::eyebrows:
Marco.
And that "phrase" wasn't actually a phrase, but one of Bernard Manning's racist jokes. Seemed apt to me, but not in the nasty way Manning intended.
Apparently Daniel O'Connell said it first about the Duke of Wellington (about 1840) “The poor old duke what shall I say of him. To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.”
mad-moon
30-11-2020, 20:08
A law called the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984
, which applies in England and Wales, allows public health measures to be taken in circumstances like the current coronavirus outbreak.
However, it explicitly states that regulations cannot require a person to undertake medical treatment, including vaccination
. This provision remains in place. The Coronavirus Act
introduced in March 2020 extended this prohibition to Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Nadhim Zahawi, the health minister in charge of the vaccine rollout, told the BBC today that the vaccine won’t be compulsory.
they may not be able to make you have the vaccine, but if suspected of being infected, they can force you to isolate, detain you, quarantine you and your family, if it is deemed they could be a risk to public health and generally make your life a bloody misery....
Lol, says who? Show us your (indisputable) source of proof for that please:)
Marco.
Lol, says who? Show us your (indisputable) source of proof for that please:)
Marco.
Pretty sure it's in the Coronavirus Act but I think there was already a law allowing the detention of dangers to public health going back to the times when typhoid was a problem.
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 20:46
Lol - on another thread? What's wrong with the one where the question was posed?:ner:
Anyway, yes, Miss Ashley's best is all I'll use to wipe the excrement from my posterior.
Not particularly a fan of Manning, so am not really familiar with his work. Therefore, that was the first time I'd heard said 'joke'.
Marco.
1. NOBODY is a fan of Manning, and anyway you don't need to be to understand what I was saying. But if you want to be the only person in the world who doesn't understand it, that's fine :) Not saying it's a joke, just saying it was simple to follow.
2. It was a reply to a question you posed, over on "Crap Weather for November", you plank! :ner:
3. I'll say it again, Bloody hard work! Hang on, I actually said High Maintenance, before you pull me up on that one too! :)
Mmm... And how does that sit with the Human Rights Act 1998?;)
Anyway, as I've said before, if they tried any shite like that there'd be a civil war.
Marco.
1. NOBODY is a fan of Manning, and anyway you don't need to be to understand what I was saying. But if you want to be the only person in the world who doesn't understand it, that's fine :) Not saying it's a joke, just saying it was simple to follow.
Yes, of course I understand it, but it's irrelevant to me and also not particularly funny (if indeed that was the intention).
2. It was a reply to a question you posed, over on "Crap Weather for November", you plank! :ner:
Lol - ok, I'll give you that, but you'll have to forgive me, as I've become so accustomed having to keep prompting you to answer questions I've asked, it's easy to lose track!!:ner::D
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 20:50
Apparently Daniel O'Connell said it first about the Duke of Wellington (about 1840) “The poor old duke what shall I say of him. To be sure he was born in Ireland, but being born in a stable does not make a man a horse.”
Thanks Guy, always good learning stuff :)
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 20:53
they may not be able to make you have the vaccine, but if suspected of being infected, they can force you to isolate, detain you, quarantine you and your family, if it is deemed they could be a risk to public health and generally make your life a bloody misery....
How is that different to what we have now? This is exactly what I'm hoping the vaccine will put a stop to.
Exactly... If that was their intention, they'd have been as well trying to make the vaccine mandatory!
However, the fact is, as Grant has outlined, there'd be as much chance of that happening, as anyone's family or them being quarantined or 'held captive' against their will for having Coronavirus:lol:
I think someone's been watching too many 'disaster movies';)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2020, 21:03
Yes, of course I understand it, but it's irrelevant to me and also not particularly funny (if indeed that was the intention).
Lol - ok, I'll give you that, but you'll have to forgive me, as I've become so accustomed having to keep prompting you to answer questions I've asked, it's easy to lose track!!:ner::D
Marco.
For cryin' out loud, let it go already! :eek: It is NOT a joke, and isn't funny! I don't know how else to word this! Let me try again: You look Italian, have inherited Italian values, eat like an Italian, so you ARE Italian! But you were born in Scotland! Doesn't make you Scottish!
My last word on this, feel free to think you have 'won' in some way :)
Mmm... And how does that sit with the Human Rights Act 1998?;)
Anyway, as I've said before, if they tried any shite like that there'd be a civil war.
Marco.
If you are being lawfully detained the HRA doesn't apply.
For cryin' out loud, let it go already! :eek: It is NOT a joke, and isn't funny! I don't know how else to word this! Let me try again: You look Italian, have inherited Italian values, eat like an Italian, so you ARE Italian! But you were born in Scotland! Doesn't make you Scottish!
My last word on this, feel free to think you have 'won' in some way :)
No I don't.. There's nothing to 'win" - what are you on about??:scratch:
I fully understand what you're saying.
Marco.
If you are being lawfully detained the HRA doesn't apply.
Aye, good luck with that!!:D
Marco.
It's been done in the past, Italians were interned in WW2
''My nonno was arrested at the family home in Glasgow in the early hours of June 12th 1940 just two days after Mussolini had declared war on Britain and France. The policeman that carried out the arrest was a well known customer of the cafe and apologised for having to make the arrest. Despite the apology, Tommaso spend the next three and half years of his life on the Isle of Man.''
http://www.glasgowwestend.co.uk/people/internmentitalianfromglasgow.php
Lol - are you on a mission or something?:D
If what you're saying ever comes to pass, then you'll have been proved wrong by telling me that the UK would never become a police state.
Marco.
The Isle of Man too - a fate worse than death!
So is that how you honestly think things will go? If so, you've changed your tune!;)
Quite simply, that sort of behaviour doesn't fit with a free or democratic country. You'd be as well living in South Korea!
Marco.
So is that how you honestly think things will go? If so, you've changed your tune!;)
Quite simply, that sort of behaviour doesn't fit with that of a free and democratic country.
Marco.
No I don't think that's the way it will go at all. Just pointing out they could do it if they wanted to/needed to. The law allows it and it's been done before.
If it really was unnecessary detention then your brief would challenge it, it would go to court and the judges would decide if it was a proportional action under the Act, if not then you'd get slung.
Lol... Well, that's why we have forces for the good, fighting to protect our human rights and civil liberties, such as Big Brother Watch (and MANY other organisations like them), to keep the controlling excesses of draconian rulers at bay.
Quite simply, they'd never get away with trying something like that, no matter how 'legally entitled' they thought they were, as civil war would ensue. Introducing laws is one thing, attempting to enforce them is another, and in another league altogether from that is getting the people to accept them!;)
See all those rather well-attended protests recently over lockdowns. which turned a little nasty? Well, that'd just be the TIP of the iceberg, if they dared try any shit like that - think full-scale RIOTS...:trust:
And I'd be one of the first to get tooled up for the fight - and I'm NOT fucking joking!!!! That's a cause I'd gladly die for, as if they succeeded, it would signal the end for civilised society. Quite simply, there'd be no point living in a world like that, as it wouldn't be a life, more like a prison sentence.
Marco.
mad-moon
30-11-2020, 21:56
Lol, says who? Show us your (indisputable) source of proof for that please:)
Marco.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/22/section/45G
they can also stop you working, going places and with whom you can have contact with....
you just have to be suspected of having a virus that is a danger to public health, which of course covid 19 has been deemed to be so..
Yes I've seen that, but as I've just said, it's one thing having laws in place; it's quite another successfully enforcing them!!
However, the question you should be asking yourself is how the government were allowed to introduce such draconian 'laws' in the first place - who voted it in? It should never have been allowed. And the fact that they've been allowed should tell you all you need to know about the shower of shite governing us!
In any case, they could subject me as much as they liked to a medical examination, as I'd very likely be showing no symptoms of any virus to begin with, so there'd be nothing to find or justify them quarantining me for!:D
What are they going to do then, imprison me under false pretences?;)
Anyway, I think it's time we returned to reality, rather than fantasy.
Marco.
mad-moon
30-11-2020, 22:09
Exactly... If that was their intention, they'd have been as well trying to make the vaccine mandatory!
However, the fact is, as Grant has outlined, there'd be as much chance of that happening, as anyone's family or them being quarantined or 'held captive' against their will for having Coronavirus:lol:
I think someone's been watching too many 'disaster movies';)
Marco.
or perhaps they've been reading... Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984
mad-moon
30-11-2020, 22:14
I will if you will...
No, I'm TELLING you to give it a rest. I'm the owner of this site, so you do what *I* say sunshine, and like it, not the other way round. You've been on my case for too long, which I've tolerated up until now, but enough is enough, so behave.
Marco,.
Mikeandvan
30-11-2020, 23:21
I think with the virus as harmful as it is now, that mandatory vaccinations are a step too far, but it should be encouraged. If this were a much more deadly virus, then I think making it mandatory would be a much more urgent matter. It is not only down to personal choice, you cannot choose whether to infect someone or not, if you have the virus, so refusing it could justifiably be seen as selfish. My beef with the govt. at the minute in regards to Covid is the massive over reach of lockdown, and especially the difference in the way that police dealt with recent anti lockdown protestors and the BLM lot during lockdown v.1. More than that its the utter absurdity and pettiness of some of these rules, like you cannot go to a pub just for a drink, you must have a meal, what f***nut came up with that? And I understand now you cannot even buy alcohol in Wales, or something like that. This has more to do with governments being seen to be doing the right thing, rather than any coherent proportionate thinking.
If this were a much more deadly virus, then I think making it mandatory would be a much more urgent matter. It is not only down to personal choice, you cannot choose whether to infect someone or not, if you have the virus, so refusing it could justifiably be seen as selfish.
Sorry, I completely disagree. We're not talking about a small thing here; we're talking about injecting something into your body that *potentially* could have life-changing consequences, if it goes wrong now or in future.
I'd be willing to do many different things to help protect others that are reasonable, and indeed already do, such as wearing a mask in public places and observing social distancing, even though I disagree with it and also think it's largely ineffective, but at least it can't change me in any way.
Quite simply it's not 'selfish' to refuse to take something that you consider as being fundamentally dangerous. Therefore, to try and force people to do so, or bully them into it with a guilt trip about being 'socially irresponsible', is far worse and simply unacceptable. What sort of society does that type of thinking lead to??
If you're 100% happy that having a vaccine for Covid will be safe, and have no qualms about it, then that's fine, but equally, you must also RESPECT the HUMAN RIGHTS of others to refuse if they don't. That's how a reasonable and civilised person behaves (and also a reasonable and civilised society), not someone who thinks that everyone else should be made to do what they think is right, or who takes umbrage at others seemingly 'getting away' with something they can't.
You should never be resentful towards others who have no need to put themselves in the same predicament as you, simply because they're fortunate to be healthier. That's the thinking of a scumbag, and TRUE selfishness at work!
Life is full of risks, always has been and always will be, and eventually we'll all die from something, so you simply have to accept that fact and get on with it, without inhumanely attempting to impose draconian laws and controls upon people, especially as you say, when it's simply not necessary, in terms of how deadly this virus is in *real terms* for the VAST majority of the world's population.
And moreover, the most important thing here is the precedent it sets if things such as vaccines became mandatory... If that were given the green light, what else could the powers that be make mandatory next? As let's face it, if they succeeded in forcing you to inject yourself with stuff, anything else, with questionable nefarious intent, would be a piece of piss!!
THINK about that one VERY carefully, folks, if you value your future freedom!! Do you want to be owned or end up as a glorified slave?
Marco.
I was listening to Radio 4 Saturday about the Lady in charge of the current Oxford vaccine. Professor Sarah Gilbert at 1900:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules/p00fzl7j/2020/11/28
But apparently they just modified an old vaccine to get the Coronavirus one. So it's not terribly radical. And she started work in February. Which is reassuring.
I think with the virus as harmful as it is now, that mandatory vaccinations are a step too far, but it should be encouraged. If this were a much more deadly virus, then I think making it mandatory would be a much more urgent matter. It is not only down to personal choice, you cannot choose whether to infect someone or not, if you have the virus, so refusing it could justifiably be seen as selfish. My beef with the govt. at the minute in regards to Covid is the massive over reach of lockdown, and especially the difference in the way that police dealt with recent anti lockdown protestors and the BLM lot during lockdown v.1. More than that its the utter absurdity and pettiness of some of these rules, like you cannot go to a pub just for a drink, you must have a meal, what f***nut came up with that? And I understand now you cannot even buy alcohol in Wales, or something like that. This has more to do with governments being seen to be doing the right thing, rather than any coherent proportionate thinking.
Way over reach.
If it were actually very deadly then people would be too afraid not to take it for the most part. Anyone vulnerable will want it so it really doesn't matter if others don't, but regardless my body my choice. In the same way it's our choice to follow any law. Whether or not there are consequences well, that's where things get more interesting. What's crazy is people demanding pro choice are anti choice on this subject?. ...
This virus's danger is extremely over stated. In my state we're at supposedly 2.8k. But that's out of 60k average annual deaths... And a lot of them are not covid. I work in healthcare and we know people being told shut your mouth keep your job when it comes to death diagnosing... Hospitals get relief money but not for unrelated thing to covid.
Indeed, Jeremy. I've also heard similar, as stated earlier in the thread, from friends of mine who have relatives that work in the NHS, yet this fact is conveniently glossed over and no-one wants to address or question it, but instead seemingly just swallow the published death stats as Gospel!:doh:
I just don't get that mentality. There's credible evidence suggesting that deaths from Covid are deliberately being exaggerated, but no-one wants to know. Sadly, it simply smacks of sticking your fingers in your ears, going 'la, la, la' and hoping that the bad man saying these things will just shut up and go away....
What good is that attitude to anyone?:rolleyes:
You should never hide from the truth, no matter how scary it may be!
Marco.
Scott Atlas has resigned.
In other News...
To all the “tough guys" who don't want to wear a mask or worry about COVID.
Exhausted nurses & doctors...Paramedics & ambulance drivers.
THEY'RE the tough ones.
Stop making their job harder.
Duckworp
01-12-2020, 03:42
Wow, very surprised to find this here. I just popped into one of my favourite Hi-Fi forums only to find a 500+ thread on COVID conspiracy theories, anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination rhetoric.
My daughter is a Dr in a large Hospital. Believe me, it is not good out there. They are at capacity for COVID and if there are many more cases then they will have to start taking over other wards which means kicking people out and cancelling more operations and having more triage for non-COVID and COVID cases. Lockdown and restrictions on socialising simply slows this down so hers and other hospitals can cope. It therefore allows the non-COVID cases to also be treated. It's simple really, no governments are trying to control us, no one is deliberately screwing the economy for personal gain, it’s just a means of allowing hospitals to function for all cases, COVID and non-COVID.
They have a Nightingale Hospital in her town but they have no staff to run it. As things are, the main hospital is under-staffed because of COVID. It seems building these was a political decision with no thought on the practical question of who would work in them. Daft maybe, but they were desperate back in march, desperate to look as if they were actually doing something.
But given that, everything going on with restrictions does actually make sense, however inconvenient and illogical it may seem from the outside. If these measures were not taken obviously they'd be more COVID deaths but also a lot of ill non-COVID people would be dying and more operations cancelled as hospitals would be overwhelmed by COVID.
There is nothing sinister going on. And 5G does not spread COVID.
I am not an anti-vaxer, rather I am pro-vaccinations, but I am a little nervous of new vaccines as I have, in my past, had a bad reaction to a couple of vaccines including the basic flu virus. I understand that they may introduce a system which will mean you are not able to travel abroad without proof of a vaccine. That will be an interesting dilemma to face.
Filterlab
01-12-2020, 03:59
Wow, very surprised to find this here. I just popped into one of my favourite Hi-Fi forums only to find a 500+ thread on COVID conspiracy theories, anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination rhetoric.
.
May I ask why you’re “very surprised”? Do you believe that as Hi-Fi enthusiasts we collectively shouldn’t have any opinions or thoughts on the current situation? Or are you very surprised that some opinions differ from yours?
Wow, very surprised to find this here. I just popped into one of my favourite Hi-Fi forums only to find a 500+ thread on COVID conspiracy theories, anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination rhetoric.
My daughter is a Dr in a large Hospital. Believe me, it is not good out there. They are at capacity for COVID and if there are many more cases then they will have to start taking over other wards which means kicking people out and cancelling more operations and having more triage for non-COVID and COVID cases. Lockdown and restrictions on socialising simply slows this down so hers and other hospitals can cope. It therefore allows the non-COVID cases to also be treated. It's simple really, no governments are trying to control us, no one is deliberately screwing the economy for personal gain, it’s just a means of allowing hospitals to function for all cases, COVID and non-COVID.
They have a Nightingale Hospital in her town but they have no staff to run it. As things are, the main hospital is under-staffed because of COVID. It seems building these was a political decision with no thought on the practical question of who would work in them. Daft maybe, but they were desperate back in march, desperate to look as if they were actually doing something.
But given that, everything going on with restrictions does actually make sense, however inconvenient and illogical it may seem from the outside. If these measures were not taken obviously they'd be more COVID deaths but also a lot of ill non-COVID people would be dying and more operations cancelled as hospitals would be overwhelmed by COVID.
There is nothing sinister going on. And 5G does not spread COVID.
I am not an anti-vaxer, rather I am pro-vaccinations, but I am a little nervous of new vaccines as I have, in my past, had a bad reaction to a couple of vaccines including the basic flu virus. I understand that they may introduce a system which will mean you are not able to travel abroad without proof of a vaccine. That will be an interesting dilemma to face.
You're hearing what she's saying but not computing all of it.
First, everyone goes to the hospital in fear for the life for covid because they're scared to death of it.... because they watch MSM. And a lot of those people are what would be yearly admission for flu etc but aren't being classified as such. Either way you've got increases from panic. Then they're low staffed because they aren't operating normally. It's not the covid cases themselves that are the craziness. But as always anyone who works in a hospital is very dramatic 100% of the time.... believe me, I work with all of them all day. It's not fun, but it's not world ending.
As far as "slows it down" , well does it? We have seen little evidence of that. In fact so far basically none. It appears like the virus hits somewhere initially where they know it's around and then you get the late responders (immune systems) coming in because they're in need of medical assistance. Then you lock down after the fact... When maybe already the majority have already had it.
I think he knows better than anyone his own Daughter and what She’s saying my friend.
He has a perspective (vicariously through his Daughters real life experience) than many of us “Couch commanders” don’t.
You make a few good points about people in real world situations,
but you speak with some authority about what goes on in hospitals, do you work in the field?
Your taking a contrary point of view from what Peter is saying, and that’s based on his Dr daughters direct experience.
What do you base that on?
(not looking to pick a fight, just understand what seems a skewed point of view to me) :)
You're hearing what she's saying but not computing all of it.
First, everyone goes to the hospital in fear for the life for covid because they're scared to death of it.... because they watch MSM. And a lot of those people are what would be yearly admission for flu etc but aren't being classified as such. Either way you've got increases from panic. Then they're low staffed because they aren't operating normally. It's not the covid cases themselves that are the craziness. But as always anyone who works in a hospital is very dramatic 100% of the time.... believe me, I work with all of them all day. It's not fun, but it's not world ending.
As far as "slows it down" , well does it? We have seen little evidence of that. In fact so far basically none. It appears like the virus hits somewhere initially where they know it's around and then you get the late responders (immune systems) coming in because they're in need of medical assistance. Then you lock down after the fact... When maybe already the majority have already had it.
Pigmy Pony
01-12-2020, 07:21
https://youtu.be/ohDB5gbtaEQ
Which one's Marco? :D
Mikeandvan
01-12-2020, 08:38
Wow, very surprised to find this here. I just popped into one of my favourite Hi-Fi forums only to find a 500+ thread on COVID conspiracy theories, anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination rhetoric.
My daughter is a Dr in a large Hospital. Believe me, it is not good out there. They are at capacity for COVID and if there are many more cases then they will have to start taking over other wards which means kicking people out and cancelling more operations and having more triage for non-COVID and COVID cases. Lockdown and restrictions on socialising simply slows this down so hers and other hospitals can cope. It therefore allows the non-COVID cases to also be treated. It's simple really, no governments are trying to control us, no one is deliberately screwing the economy for personal gain, it’s just a means of allowing hospitals to function for all cases, COVID and non-COVID.
They have a Nightingale Hospital in her town but they have no staff to run it. As things are, the main hospital is under-staffed because of COVID. It seems building these was a political decision with no thought on the practical question of who would work in them. Daft maybe, but they were desperate back in march, desperate to look as if they were actually doing something.
But given that, everything going on with restrictions does actually make sense, however inconvenient and illogical it may seem from the outside. If these measures were not taken obviously they'd be more COVID deaths but also a lot of ill non-COVID people would be dying and more operations cancelled as hospitals would be overwhelmed by COVID.
There is nothing sinister going on. And 5G does not spread COVID.
I am not an anti-vaxer, rather I am pro-vaccinations, but I am a little nervous of new vaccines as I have, in my past, had a bad reaction to a couple of vaccines including the basic flu virus. I understand that they may introduce a system which will mean you are not able to travel abroad without proof of a vaccine. That will be an interesting dilemma to face.
Respect to what you are saying, especially the inside information your daughter gives you, but you are totally ignoring the economic devastation lock down is inflicting on the world, now and the legacy it will leave.
anthonyTD
01-12-2020, 09:44
Glad to hear this Steve,
I would sooner listen, and take notice of folk like him, than the plumbs selected to advise the current crock of shit we have in government! :rolleyes:
And yes, i fancied his bike too, although as you say, back wheel removed, and what looks like one of its cylinders lying on the floor at the side. :)
I was watching Mike Yeadon tonight, and thankyou, Tony. Evidently a brainy bloke. You don't get First Class Honours without being big on smarts.
Just my mind, but I fancied his motorbike too, A Suzuki triple 2 stroke if I have not lost my skill. But minus a back wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bX-wFVBP94
But really he is telling us not to lose too much sleep over Covid-19. Just another Winter germ. I am less on panic than a few months back.
Scott Atlas has resigned.
Who's Scott Atlas?:scratch:
Marco.
anthonyTD
01-12-2020, 10:03
I don't think anyone is doubting how hard it is in hospitals at this time of year, but its the same every year, people get ill more in the cold weather, Flu has been killing people for more than a thousand years that we know of, and has been documented, as for your remark about 5G spreading Covid, was that meant as a joke ? certain types of Radio frequencies, and EMF have been known at least as far back as the 1970's to have a detrimental affect on the immune system, plenty of reading out there, if anyone care's to research it properly, here's a head start https://atmosure.com/blogs/stories/5g-and-coronavirus, unfortunetly there are two main types of people, those who will, and need to follow without question, and those who are willing to question and only follow if the information available stacks up, more often than not, a middle ground can be found.
Wow, very surprised to find this here. I just popped into one of my favourite Hi-Fi forums only to find a 500+ thread on COVID conspiracy theories, anti-lockdown and anti-vaccination rhetoric.
My daughter is a Dr in a large Hospital. Believe me, it is not good out there. They are at capacity for COVID and if there are many more cases then they will have to start taking over other wards which means kicking people out and cancelling more operations and having more triage for non-COVID and COVID cases. Lockdown and restrictions on socialising simply slows this down so hers and other hospitals can cope. It therefore allows the non-COVID cases to also be treated. It's simple really, no governments are trying to control us, no one is deliberately screwing the economy for personal gain, it’s just a means of allowing hospitals to function for all cases, COVID and non-COVID.
They have a Nightingale Hospital in her town but they have no staff to run it. As things are, the main hospital is under-staffed because of COVID. It seems building these was a political decision with no thought on the practical question of who would work in them. Daft maybe, but they were desperate back in march, desperate to look as if they were actually doing something.
But given that, everything going on with restrictions does actually make sense, however inconvenient and illogical it may seem from the outside. If these measures were not taken obviously they'd be more COVID deaths but also a lot of ill non-COVID people would be dying and more operations cancelled as hospitals would be overwhelmed by COVID.
There is nothing sinister going on. And 5G does not spread COVID.
I am not an anti-vaxer, rather I am pro-vaccinations, but I am a little nervous of new vaccines as I have, in my past, had a bad reaction to a couple of vaccines including the basic flu virus. I understand that they may introduce a system which will mean you are not able to travel abroad without proof of a vaccine. That will be an interesting dilemma to face.
Filterlab
01-12-2020, 10:36
Who's Scott Atlas?:scratch:
Marco.
His dad held up the sky.
Trumps quack Coronavirus Guru and in-house spreader of disinformation.
Guess the demands by the Trumpster got too much even for him.
This guy.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/scott-atlas-face-masks-coronavirus/index.html
his contract was up apparently this week anyway.
https://youtu.be/ohDB5gbtaEQ
Which one's Marco? :D
Very good! But TBH, it's not really funny.
Why should robustly expressed contrary views to the accepted norm be seen as 'argumentative'? Must those of us who disagree with others or you, or even the majority of the population, simply shut up and think the same, simply for a 'quiet life'?
Because that's the feeling I'm getting here from some people, and it stinks!
Worse, there seems to be an increasing undercurrent of resentment towards anyone who dares criticise or question the safety of the forthcoming vaccines, and a desire to silence them, simply because they dislike a) their choice being criticised and feel uneasy about it, b) anyone who's fortunate enough not to feel the NEED for a vaccine, if instead they consider that their immune system itself is able to cope - essentially an attitude of 'well if I'm having it, pal, you're having it, too!':doh:
And I simply *will NOT* have that here. Those wishing to take the vaccine have others and my blessing, and our sincere wishes that it will work out well. However, at the same time we have to be allowed to express our concerns if we feel they're warranted, without being subjected to accusations of argumentativeness or ruffling feathers for the sake of it, because I can assure you that's not the case.
Therefore, going forward, how I'm insisting on this thread being conducted, is a) if you have nothing constructive to say, then say nothing [and such posts will be removed without further notice], and instead contribute to other discussions on the forum. Most importantly, b):
If you can't handle opposing views being expressed in a way that casts doubt on what you alternatively believe, or worse can't help but feel jealousy or resentfulness towards someone who's healthier than you, and so doesn't feel pressurised into having a vaccine, then also stay away from this discussion, as that's wrong on so many levels.
Learn to accept that some people will always think differently, not just on this matter, but many other important and controversial subjects, and allow them to do that without making them feel that they have to comply with your values or thought processes, simply to 'keep the peace' or engage in a group hug.
That's fundamentally not how we do things on AoS, and never will. Polite or reasonable free-thinking, controversial or otherwise, expressed frankly and honestly, will always be welcomed not gagged!
And btw, although I've quoted you here, Steve, the above is not solely aimed at you. It's for the benefit of the whole of the membership:)
Marco.
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