View Full Version : Johns Hopkins Medical Centre - World Coronavirus infection Map by Country.
Trumps quack Coronavirus Guru and in-house spreader of disinformation.
Guess the demands by the Trumpster got too much even for him.
This guy.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/scott-atlas-face-masks-coronavirus/index.html
Ah, thanks! You're right into this stuff, aren't you?:D
Now that the election is over, personally I have little interest in Trump, but I do worry what the 'other lot' in charge now will get up to and what changes they'll make that could have a seriously negative and far-reaching impact on all of our lives.
As I've said before, and as the old saying goes, 'better the devil you know'...;)
Marco.
Duckworp
01-12-2020, 15:21
May I ask why you’re “very surprised”? Do you believe that as Hi-Fi enthusiasts we collectively shouldn’t have any opinions or thoughts on the current situation? Or are you very surprised that some opinions differ from yours?
I didn't know HiFi forums discussed things other than audio equipment. So I was surprised that it happens. I always look at the 'Blank Canvas', 'Digital Expressions' and 'The Artists Palette' area but never really looked beyond that. I go to forums for specialist discussion on a subject and didn't expect to find general chat. I also use the Audiogon and Roon forums and they don't have such things. However I just looked on Pink Fish and they do. Who knew? I have learned something.
You're hearing what she's saying but not computing all of it.
First, everyone goes to the hospital in fear for the life for covid because they're scared to death of it.... because they watch MSM.
No, at her Hospital the paramedics triage the Covid patients and only bring them in if the oxygen levels are sub-92. She says that there are a few walk-in A&E patients with covid but most of these are triaged and sent home as if they were well enough to make it to Hospital they probably aren't ill enough to be kept in.
What is MSM?
And a lot of those people are what would be yearly admission for flu etc but aren't being classified as such. Either way you've got increases from panic.
No she says these are definitely Covid as they are tested and are not sent to the Covid ward if they test negative. She says the Covid ward patients not on Oxygen make a cacophony of breathless breathing.
Then they're low staffed because they aren't operating normally. It's not the covid cases themselves that are the craziness. But as always anyone who works in a hospital is very dramatic 100% of the time.... believe me, I work with all of them all day. It's not fun, but it's not world ending.
There are structural staff shortages plus a lot of staff also have covid. They now have home-testing kits and test themselves twice a week. If they have sniffle but test negative they are encouraged to get to work as staffing is so low.
As far as "slows it down" , well does it? We have seen little evidence of that. In fact so far basically none. It appears like the virus hits somewhere initially where they know it's around and then you get the late responders (immune systems) coming in because they're in need of medical assistance. Then you lock down after the fact... When maybe already the majority have already had it.
[/QUOTE]
There is evidence this week: daily covid cases are dropping after the month of lockdown. Then remember that cases declined to next to nothing after the full-on March-May lockdown. There is absolutely no doubt that reducing person-to-person interactions in society reduces covid. The question is whether that reduction is worth the economic cost.
Respect to what you are saying, especially the inside information your daughter gives you, but you are totally ignoring the economic devastation lock down is inflicting on the world, now and the legacy it will leave.
There is no doubt that there is massive economic devastation. But imagine for a moment the alternative: scenes of hospital beds in corridors, scenes of heart attack and stroke emergency patients being turned away or treated in corridors, reports of people unable to get into hospital and dying at home whether from covid or another emergency. Given that the NHS cannot get the Nightingale Hospitals to operate due to lack of staff this is what it would be like. Even if you personally decide that this situation is human cost worth taking to save the economy, no government would ever want these images beamed around the country and the world. Labour and Tory would never allow it, and even the extremists like Iain Duncan Smith and Nigel Farage if in power would find it hard to be the enablers of this situation.
The fact that we are not at that situation is because the economy is devastated. But if you were in power would you really sanction such a medical disaster?
I don't think anyone is doubting how hard it is in hospitals at this time of year, but its the same every year, people get ill more in the cold weather, Flu has been killing people for more than a thousand years that we know of, and has been documented,
My daughter's hospital is just about coping because of the actions taken by the government to contain the spread of the disease. Without these lockdown actions they would be overrun as I described above. OK, one cannot 'prove' that they would be in this state but anyone with a basic understanding of graphs and growth curves would be able to see that there would be substantially more cases if society was operating as normal.
as for your remark about 5G spreading Covid, was that meant as a joke ? certain types of Radio frequencies, and EMF have been known at least as far back as the 1970's to have a detrimental affect on the immune system, plenty of reading out there, if anyone care's to research it properly, here's a head start https://atmosure.com/blogs/stories/5g-and-coronavirus, unfortunetly there are two main types of people, those who will, and need to follow without question, and those who are willing to question and only follow if the information available stacks up, more often than not, a middle ground can be found.
Man never went to the moon, the CIA were responsible for 9/11 and AIDS, aircraft trails contain biological agents, covid was released by china against the west, flat-earthers, new wrld order believers, Holocost deniers, bill gates being the evil one with his vaccines, 5G spreads covid...they are all generally considered crazy conspiracy theories. Obviously not by the people who believe them though. The great thing and the worse thing about a conspiracy theory is you can't be proved wrong nor right. But the great conspiracy theorists such as David Icke do come across as a little strange, so the wider public have tended to be rightfully wary of these theories. However the problem with social media is that a lot of people are now actually believing them on a scale not seen before.
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your valued insight into the situation prevailing within the hospital in question, based on others and your real experiences. I'd have no desire to question it, as I'm sure it's true, although simply to add that I've heard conflicting accounts from others I know of who work in the NHS, but let's not dwell on that for the moment, as clearly the picture varies in different hospitals.
The great thing and the worse thing about a conspiracy theory is you can't be proved wrong nor right.
Well, in theory you could, with enough credible evidence stacked up for or against the 'conspiracy theory' in question. What you've got to guard against though, and unfortunately there's been much evidence of this throughout the thread, is that my or your 'credible evidence', in that respect, isn't considered as the sole or definitive one;)
But the great conspiracy theorists such as David Icke do come across as a little strange, so the wider public have tended to be rightfully wary of these theories. However the problem with social media is that a lot of people are now actually believing them on a scale not seen before.
Being wary or suspicious of *anything* is always a healthy approach, and that includes the views of Icke or anyone else, as much as forms of political propaganda, half-truths or blatant lies perpetrated by the government.
Therefore, when it comes to believing in or rubbishing 'conspiracy theories', one should be equally cautious of guarding against it simply qualifying as that which best supports our political bias or belief system, as one can too often get caught up in that, or what we consider as too scary to contemplate, thus be blinded to the truth.
In that respect, for me it's never a bad thing to challenge the accepted norm/popular view, or critically examine (some) of such 'conspiracy theories', just in case there's more to it than that, rather than simply dismiss them out of hand. That's certainly always been my approach, and also one which has proved to be rewarding. It's called being (genuinely) open-minded.
Anyway, long-live free thinking and those unafraid or unashamed of being considered as a 'heretic'!:)
Marco.
anthonyTD
01-12-2020, 16:07
One of the main reasons i suspect people are looking into alternative answers as to what is actualy going on at the moment is IMO down to the way the government and its advisers have handled the whole situation from the start, as for your view on 5G, well i guess for what ever your reason you didnt want to do as i sugested, which was do your own research on the matter, and instead decided to cover it as just another conspiracy, and of course you are entitled to your opinion, as long as you make it clear that it is just that, and i for one will have no problem with that :)
I didn't know HiFi forums discussed things other than audio equipment. So I was surprised that it happens. I always look at the 'Blank Canvas', 'Digital Expressions' and 'The Artists Palette' area but never really looked beyond that. I go to forums for specialist discussion on a subject and didn't expect to find general chat. I also use the Audiogon and Roon forums and they don't have such things. However I just looked on Pink Fish and they do. Who knew? I have learned something.
No, at her Hospital the paramedics triage the Covid patients and only bring them in if the oxygen levels are sub-92. She says that there are a few walk-in A&E patients with covid but most of these are triaged and sent home as if they were well enough to make it to Hospital they probably aren't ill enough to be kept in.
What is MSM?
No she says these are definitely Covid as they are tested and are not sent to the Covid ward if they test negative. She says the Covid ward patients not on Oxygen make a cacophony of breathless breathing.
There are structural staff shortages plus a lot of staff also have covid. They now have home-testing kits and test themselves twice a week. If they have sniffle but test negative they are encouraged to get to work as staffing is so low.
There is evidence this week: daily covid cases are dropping after the month of lockdown. Then remember that cases declined to next to nothing after the full-on March-May lockdown. There is absolutely no doubt that reducing person-to-person interactions in society reduces covid. The question is whether that reduction is worth the economic cost.
There is no doubt that there is massive economic devastation. But imagine for a moment the alternative: scenes of hospital beds in corridors, scenes of heart attack and stroke emergency patients being turned away or treated in corridors, reports of people unable to get into hospital and dying at home whether from covid or another emergency. Given that the NHS cannot get the Nightingale Hospitals to operate due to lack of staff this is what it would be like. Even if you personally decide that this situation is human cost worth taking to save the economy, no government would ever want these images beamed around the country and the world. Labour and Tory would never allow it, and even the extremists like Iain Duncan Smith and Nigel Farage if in power would find it hard to be the enablers of this situation.
The fact that we are not at that situation is because the economy is devastated. But if you were in power would you really sanction such a medical disaster?
My daughter's hospital is just about coping because of the actions taken by the government to contain the spread of the disease. Without these lockdown actions they would be overrun as I described above. OK, one cannot 'prove' that they would be in this state but anyone with a basic understanding of graphs and growth curves would be able to see that there would be substantially more cases if society was operating as normal.
Man never went to the moon, the CIA were responsible for 9/11 and AIDS, aircraft trails contain biological agents, covid was released by china against the west, flat-earthers, new wrld order believers, Holocost deniers, bill gates being the evil one with his vaccines, 5G spreads covid...they are all generally considered crazy conspiracy theories. Obviously not by the people who believe them though. The great thing and the worse thing about a conspiracy theory is you can't be proved wrong nor right. But the great conspiracy theorists such as David Icke do come across as a little strange, so the wider public have tended to be rightfully wary of these theories. However the problem with social media is that a lot of people are now actually believing them on a scale not seen before.
One of the main reasons i suspect people are looking into alternative answers as to what is actualy going on at the moment is IMO down to the way the government and its advisers have handled the whole situation from the start...
Hear, hear!! Their lack of transparency or honesty from the beginning, plus woeful double-standards, is what breeds suspicion, resentment and a lack of trust - and also so-called 'conspiracy theories'!;)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
01-12-2020, 16:55
Very good! But TBH, it's not really funny.
Why should robustly expressed contrary views to the accepted norm be seen as 'argumentative'? Must those of us who disagree with others or you, or even the majority of the population, simply shut up and think the same, simply for a 'quiet life'?
Because that's the feeling I'm getting here from some people, and it stinks!
Worse, there seems to be an increasing and underlying resentment towards anyone who dares criticise or question the safety of the forthcoming vaccines, and a desire to silence them, simply because they dislike a) their choice being criticised and feel uneasy about it, b) anyone who's fortunate enough not to feel the NEED for a vaccine, if instead they consider that their immune system itself is able to cope - essentially an attitude of 'well if I'm having it, you're gonna have it, too!':doh:
And I simply *will NOT* have that here. Those wishing to take the vaccine have others and my blessing, and our sincere wishes that it will work out well. However, at the same time we have to be allowed to express our concerns if we feel they're warranted, without being subjected to accusations of argumentativeness or ruffling feathers for the sake of it, because I can assure you that's not the case.
Therefore, going forward, how I'm insisting on this thread being conducted, is a) if you have nothing constructive to say, then say nothing [and such posts will be removed without further notice], and instead contribute to other discussions on the forum. Most importantly, b):
If you can't handle opposing views expressed in a way that casts doubt on what you alternatively believe, or worse can't help but feel jealousy or resentfulness towards someone who's healthier than you, and so doesn't feel pressurised into having a vaccine, then also stay away from this discussion, as that's wrong on so many levels.
Learn to accept that some people will always think differently, not just on this matter, but many other important and controversial subjects, and allow them to do that without making them feel that they have to comply with your values or thought processes, simply to 'keep the peace' or engage in a group hug.
That's fundamentally not how we do things on AoS, and never will. Polite or reasonable free-thinking, controversial or otherwise, expressed frankly and honestly, will always be welcomed not gagged!
And btw, although I've quoted you here, Steve, the above is not solely aimed at you. It's for the benefit of the whole of the membership:)
Marco.
Sorry buddy, it was not my intention to cause offence - I wasn't attempting to disparage your views on vaccines (or anything else)! I have said before that I respect people's right to refuse it. 'Twas was merely an attempt to send up your tendency to argue a point to the nth degree, until the other person gives up :) No more than that. I'll be a bit more careful in future when I'm thinking of taking the mickey.
As with most things, I really don't care - I'm happy for people to wind me up, indeed I'm my own biggest victim. I guess not everyone thinks the same way.
BTW thanks for the new avatar - did I mention (twice) how much I like it? :ner:
Duckworp
01-12-2020, 17:01
Hi Peter,
Well, in theory you could, with enough credible evidence weighed up for or against the 'conspiracy theory' in question. What you've got to guard against though, and unfortunately there's been much evidence of this throughout the thread, is that my or your 'credible evidence', in that respect, isn't considered as the sole or definitive one;)
Being wary or suspicious of *anything* is always a healthy approach, and that includes the views of Icke, or anyone else, as much as forms of political propaganda, half-truths or blatant lies perpetrated by the government.
Therefore, when it comes to 'conspiracy theories' one should be equally cautious of guarding against such simply qualifying as that which best appeases our political bias or belief system, as one can too often get caught up in that, or what we consider as too scary to contemplate, thus be blinded to the truth.
In that respect, for me it's never a bad thing to challenge the accepted norm/popular view, or critically examine (some) of such 'conspiracy theories', just in case there's more to it than that, rather than simply dismiss them out of hand. That's certainly always been my approach, and also one which has proved to be rewarding. It's called being (genuinely) open-minded.
Anyway, long-live free thinking and those unafraid or unashamed of being considered as a 'heretic'!:)
Marco.
My criteria for testing many theories is firstly to question the why and then the evidence. So the "why" on why the NASA moon landings might be fabricated would be perfectly reasonable as the US may have not developed the tech but would not have wanted to lose face by not being able to get to the moon by the end of the 60s as Kennedy promised. But the evidence? It is sketchy at best but most of all there is no way the thousands of NASA scientists could have faked it without any of them coming clean once over the decades since. It's a bit like in HiFi the people who get on their high horse and claim cables absolutely cannot make a difference. They seem to imply that manufacturers, retailers, and hifi journalists and consumers who report a difference are all in this together in some conspiracy. It is nonsense: if this were the case over the decades one of these people in retirement would have come out the woodwork and admitted it was all a hoax.
It is good to question the norm but I do feel that most conspiracy theories fall over on the most basic of questions. Hitler proved, if proof were needed, that to control a nation you don't actually need to hide your controlling HQ city under Denver Airport (I believe that is where one of the evil empires currently base themselves according to one theory), but it can be done through completely legal means, with a little bit of force behind it. This is the scary truth and Belarus recently and the Balkans in the 90s show it can still happen in a transparent and scary way quite close to home.
Sorry buddy, it was not my intention to cause offence - I wasn't attempting to disparage your views on vaccines (or anything else)! I have said before that I respect people's right to refuse it.
No problem, apology accepted. What happened was largely due to the limitations of the written word, as I'm sure we could've had the same conversation face to face, and not had that misunderstanding:)
'Twas was merely an attempt to send up your tendency to argue a point to the nth degree, until the other person gives up... No more than that. I'll be a bit more careful in future when I'm thinking of taking the mickey.
As you know full well, I'm *always* up for a bit of banter and am equally able to have the mickey taken, as I am returning the compliment!
However, as mentioned, with the limitations of the written word, sometimes what was intended as mickey taking gets misconstrued. Therefore, a little extra care is needed to ensure that the recipient takes the piss-taking in the right way.
This is the important bit, though... Please understand that my 'arguing a point to the nth degree' is not out of any desire to 'win' an argument at all costs [I don't mind being wrong and frequently am], but rather simply to ensure that I'm not being misunderstood or misinterpreted (as that *really* annoys me), and therefore that what I've written has both been read AND properly understood!
I also hate 'loose ends', so if I think that something needs 'tying up', I'll tackle it, rather than leaving it 'dangling' (I know you feel the same about your troublesome little wiener:eyebrows:)
Also, just returning briefly to vaccines, we should all make more of an effort not to take umbrage with or be resentful towards the decisions of others in that respect, or be judgemental of them, as it's both inconsiderate and selfish, as well as arrogant.
I can honestly say, hand on heart, that if I were in the highest at risk category for Covid, whilst I'd like as many folks as possible to be vaccinated, I wouldn't resent anyone who, based on their judgment criteria and level or risk assessment, decided against having one. I would RESPECT their decision and civil right to make that choice, in what is supposedly a free country.
THAT is the attitude I want to see here from everyone, and indeed will be striving to ensure that's the case.
BTW thanks for the new avatar - did I mention (twice) how much I like it? :ner:
Shut it... You can SHOW me later, shweety, just HOW much you like it!:kiss::bonk:
:D
Marco.
I think he knows better than anyone his own Daughter and what She’s saying my friend.
He has a perspective (vicariously through his Daughters real life experience) than many of us “Couch commanders” don’t.
You make a few good points about people in real world situations,
but you speak with some authority about what goes on in hospitals, do you work in the field?
Your taking a contrary point of view from what Peter is saying, and that’s based on his Dr daughters direct experience.
What do you base that on?
(not looking to pick a fight, just understand what seems a skewed point of view to me) :)
I work in health care and talk to a LOT OF PEOPLE around the country daily, all in hospitals or clinics attached to them.
Filterlab
01-12-2020, 20:16
I have many clients whom work at the NNUH nearby, all of them have said how bored they are from having nothing to do.
I took my girlfriend into one of their departments the other day, and the whole (massive) building had six patients in it for the whole day. Now, I do eight appointments a day and I'm a single, self-employed person. So six patients in a vast building full of staff doesn't sound like a much of a task to me.
Saying it how I see it.
Mikeandvan
01-12-2020, 20:39
There is no doubt that there is massive economic devastation. But imagine for a moment the alternative: scenes of hospital beds in corridors, scenes of heart attack and stroke emergency patients being turned away or treated in corridors, reports of people unable to get into hospital and dying at home whether from covid or another emergency. Given that the NHS cannot get the Nightingale Hospitals to operate due to lack of staff this is what it would be like. Even if you personally decide that this situation is human cost worth taking to save the economy, no government would ever want these images beamed around the country and the world. Labour and Tory would never allow it, and even the extremists like Iain Duncan Smith and Nigel Farage if in power would find it hard to be the enablers of this situation.
The fact that we are not at that situation is because the economy is devastated. But if you were in power would you really sanction such a medical disaster?
My daughter's hospital is just about coping because of the actions taken by the government to contain the spread of the disease. Without these lockdown actions they would be overrun as I described above. OK, one cannot 'prove' that they would be in this state but anyone with a basic understanding of graphs and growth curves would be able to see that there would be substantially more cases if society was operating as normal.
There are too many variables to make any sound judgement on this, the main one being the fact that deaths attributed to Covid, the victims need only have tested postive for Covid for that to be recorded as the cause of death, without knowing whether it was actually the cause, on top of that the average age of people dying from Covid is 82, sad, but hardly tragic. The overall excess death rate is helpful, but not conclusive. To me a much more sensible solution would be strong advice to self isolate if you are vulnerable, owing to age or general health. But you are correct about politics being the driving force behind lockdown, the politicians need to be seen to be doing something, no matter how ridiculous rather than having a coherent proportionate plan.
You were doing well, until you wrote this:
.... It's a bit like in HiFi the people who get on their high horse and claim cables absolutely cannot make a difference. They seem to imply that manufacturers, retailers, and hifi journalists and consumers who report a difference are all in this together in some conspiracy. It is nonsense: if this were the case over the decades one of these people in retirement would have come out the woodwork and admitted it was all a hoax.
I don't know of any cable sceptic who thinks that the whole issue of cable 'sound' is a conspiracy. A marketing ploy maybe, but not a conspiracy.
Mikeandvan
01-12-2020, 20:43
Sorry, I completely disagree. We're not talking about a small thing here; we're talking about injecting something into your body that *potentially* could have life-changing consequences, if it goes wrong now or in future.
I'd be willing to do many different things to help protect others that are reasonable, and indeed already do, such as wearing a mask in public places and observing social distancing, even though I disagree with it and also think it's largely ineffective, but at least it can't change me in any way.
Quite simply it's not 'selfish' to refuse to take something that you consider as being fundamentally dangerous. Therefore, to try and force people to do so, or bully them into it with a guilt trip about being 'socially irresponsible', is far worse and simply unacceptable. What sort of society does that type of thinking lead to??
If you're 100% happy that having a vaccine for Covid will be safe, and have no qualms about it, then that's fine, but equally, you must also RESPECT the HUMAN RIGHTS of others to refuse if they don't. That's how a reasonable and civilised person behaves (and also a reasonable and civilised society), not someone who thinks that everyone else should be made to do what they think is right, or who takes umbrage at others seemingly 'getting away' with something they can't.
You should never be resentful towards others who have no need to put themselves in the same predicament as you, simply because they're fortunate to be healthier. That's the thinking of a scumbag, and TRUE selfishness at work!
Life is full of risks, always has been and always will be, and eventually we'll all die from something, so you simply have to accept that fact and get on with it, without inhumanely attempting to impose draconian laws and controls upon people, especially as you say, when it's simply not necessary, in terms of how deadly this virus is in *real terms* for the VAST majority of the world's population.
And moreover, the most important thing here is the precedent it sets if things such as vaccines became mandatory... If that were given the green light, what else could the powers that be make mandatory next? As let's face it, if they succeeded in forcing you to inject yourself with stuff, anything else, with questionable nefarious intent, would be a piece of piss!!
THINK about that one VERY carefully, folks, if you value your future freedom!! Do you want to be owned or end up as a glorified slave?
Marco.
I said make it mandatory IF it were a far deadlier virus! Believe me people wouldn't need telling not to leave their homes, they'd be inside on the potty, this pandemic has exposed the extremely delicate nature of a Global world.
In fairness people's own experiences are just snapshots. There's 3 million people working a the NHS over several thousand locations.
I don't know how many in the USA but it will be a lot more on both counts. Even if you go to a 100 locations it's still not enough to be representative.
walpurgis
01-12-2020, 20:54
I said make it mandatory IF it were a far deadlier virus!
It was deadly enough to sixty odd thousand in the UK so far.
I said make it mandatory IF it were a far deadlier virus! Believe me people wouldn't need telling not to leave their homes, they'd be inside on the potty, this pandemic has exposed the extremely delicate nature of a Global world.
I totally understand where you're coming from, but as I've already said, unless there is literally NO other option for the future safety of mankind (as you say, the existence of a much deadlier virus for the majority of the world's population, and Covid certainly isn't that), then things such as vaccines should NEVER be made mandatory in a supposedly free country.
It's immoral, totally wrong, and a gross infringement of your human rights. We've become way too much of a nanny state!
Marco.
It was deadly enough to sixty odd thousand in the UK so far.
Yes, if you believe the accuracy of the death figures!;)
Also, what about the 30,000 people who die from flu every year? Should the flu jab also be made mandatory, in order to reduce related deaths? Where does it end?
Sorry, but we're going round in circles.
Marco.
Filterlab
01-12-2020, 20:59
It was deadly enough to sixty odd thousand in the UK so far.
But not to over 65 million of the rest of us. That's a very small percentage in absolute numbers terms, and how many of those deaths have been incorrectly recorded as COVID deaths? I'd imagine it would be easy for lazy-arse workers to just put 'COVID' on the death cert. Who would ever follow it up?
Saying it how I see it. :D
I have begun to think/hope that we will be almost through the Covid 19 by next summer.
BUT, what the hell will our response be when a really effective "killer virus" outbreak happens?
But not to over 65 million of the rest of us. That's a very small percentage in absolute numbers terms, and how many of those deaths have been incorrectly recorded as COVID deaths? I'd imagine it would be easy for lazy-arse workers to just put 'COVID' on the death cert. Who would ever follow it up?
Saying it how I see it. :D
And me!:)
Marco.
Filterlab
01-12-2020, 21:15
Good man! We're definitely on the same page. :D
Hitler proved, if proof were needed, that to control a nation you don't actually need to hide your controlling HQ city under Denver Airport (I believe that is where one of the evil empires currently base themselves according to one theory), but it can be done through completely legal means, with a little bit of force behind it.
Sorry, I'm no historian, so could you please explain what you mean by the above, i.e how it relates to the current situation, particularly the bit in bold? What "evil empire" are you referring to? Thanks!:)
Marco.
There are too many variables to make any sound judgement on this, the main one being the fact that deaths attributed to Covid, the victims need only have tested postive for Covid for that to be recorded as the cause of death...
Precisely! Rob has just made a similar point. So how can the stated death figures be in any way accurate or trustworthy?
If you're hospitalised with conditions related to Covid, but have an underlying heart condition, and sadly later die of a heart attack in said hospital, is the cause of death Covid, or a heart attack?
Marco.
No, at her Hospital the paramedics triage the Covid patients and only bring them in if the oxygen levels are sub-92. She says that there are a few walk-in A&E patients with covid but most of these are triaged and sent home as if they were well enough to make it to Hospital they probably aren't ill enough to be kept in.
That sounds good. But I would point out that old people aren't typically put on oxygen until below 88 (as in 88-92 isn't actually always abnormal).
By the way, where is your daughter? It seems like different areas have an initial influx; especially if they are an area of high density population. Nearly all the most severe areas are high density population. The viral load is just much higher before symptoms.
What is MSM?
mainstream media
No she says these are definitely Covid as they are tested and are not sent to the Covid ward if they test negative. She says the Covid ward patients not on Oxygen make a cacophony of breathless breathing.
Covid tests are trash. Believe me, they don't work worth a crap. Flip a coin... It's BAD. As an anecdote (not proof or whatever) I know a guy who made an appointment but never showed, and got sent a positive result...
There is evidence this week: daily covid cases are dropping after the month of lockdown. Then remember that cases declined to next to nothing after the full-on March-May lockdown. There is absolutely no doubt that reducing person-to-person interactions in society reduces covid. The question is whether that reduction is worth the economic cost.
That's a far cry from proof... evidence of an observation. Everyone was still going to grocery stores etc. It's not just economic either. For example my great uncle is in California and needs to see a doctor pretty bad but can't for any reason. We're collecting much bigger health problems than covid by being shut down. The third world that depends on a lot of other countries are suffering as well. It's like we're living a drug commercial. The reality is we may be running more risk of mutations that cause bigger problems.
I actually suspect a lot of the people who get severely sick don't show symptoms for extended periods of time. Covid has been in many places way longer than the media would portray. It was in France as early as November, and the US by December. I know of areas that got hot with cases that had it spread all over and masses of people online where talking about strange symptoms and being told no to seek medical help unless they're basically dieing (they wouldn't let them make appointments). We're talking about February and March.
Duckworp
02-12-2020, 05:05
Sorry, I'm no historian, so could you please explain what you mean by the above, i.e how it relates to the current situation, particularly the bit in bold? What "evil empire" are you referring to? Thanks!:)
Marco.
I’m no expert on conspiracy theories but I have read one that believes such. See link.
https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/denver-airport/denver-international-airport-conspiracy-theories
On vaccines- Although vaccines won’t be made compulsory there are rumours that airlines will not allow you to travel, nor public events, such as sports, theatre, cinema etc, allow you to enter, without a certificate of vaccination. If this actually happens it will severely limit what unvaccinated people can do. Who knows if this will be implemented or not but I suspect the air travel bit might be more likely.
anthonyTD
02-12-2020, 09:16
Its interesting that you mention the certificate, i was listening to a radio show a few days back, and one person mentioned that if a certificate were needed as proof then within days the internet would be awash with fake versions available for a sum, now that's where the newly developed tattoo under the skin version will play its part.Then what next ??? :(
I’m no expert on conspiracy theories but I have read one that believes such. See link.
https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/denver-airport/denver-international-airport-conspiracy-theories
On vaccines- Although vaccines won’t be made compulsory there are rumours that airlines will not allow you to travel, nor public events, such as sports, theatre, cinema etc, allow you to enter, without a certificate of vaccination. If this actually happens it will severely limit what unvaccinated people can do. Who knows if this will be implemented or not but I suspect the air travel bit might be more likely.
Mikeandvan
02-12-2020, 09:46
Precisely! Rob has just made a similar point. So how can the stated death figures be in any way accurate or trustworthy?
If you're hospitalised with conditions related to Covid, but have an underlying heart condition, and sadly later die of a heart attack in said hospital, is the cause of death Covid, or a heart attack?
Marco.
I believe if Covid 19 is found in the patient then it is counted as one more towards the Covid death count, but don't quote me on that. A clearer picture might be overall excess deaths, again not conclusive, as some of those deaths may have been due to other conditions being neglected because of covid (i.e. treatment being postponed).
I’m no expert on conspiracy theories but I have read one that believes such. See link.
https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/denver-airport/denver-international-airport-conspiracy-theories
On vaccines- Although vaccines won’t be made compulsory there are rumours that airlines will not allow you to travel, nor public events, such as sports, theatre, cinema etc, allow you to enter, without a certificate of vaccination. If this actually happens it will severely limit what unvaccinated people can do. Who knows if this will be implemented or not but I suspect the air travel bit might be more likely.
Yes I've heard that and don't doubt it's likely to become reality, or at least they'll try and make it so.
We rarely fly anywhere, mostly go abroad by car/boat and rarely use any of the other venues you mention (we have a perfectly good home cinema with Sky and Netflix, plus a blu-ray player, and watch all the sport we need on TV), so it would be no big deal. And if it got to the point where we couldn't travel abroad, via any means, then we'd just stay within our own shores - *anything* to avoid taking something that WE DON"T WANT!!
In any case, if what you've said comes to pass, we'll see how well the population accepts having their freedoms limited in that way, especially the millions who won't be taking a vaccine, and of course anyone else [and there are plenty] who believe in protesting and fighting against the fascist controlling of our civil liberties...
https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/
The above organisation is but one of many, worldwide. It won't just be large protests in many major UK cities, like there were recently against lockdowns, but MASS RIOTS and the beginnings of civil war. As there are many people, including me, who simply won't just 'sit back and take it', but FIGHT against such oppression and tyranny!
And I'm not kidding when I say this, if it *really* got to the stage where it was necessary, I'd gladly become a 'freedom fighter'/activist - and a prominent one at that, as I'm very good at influencing and leading people. If they want a war, they'll fucking get one!:trust:
The fact is, many of the freedoms we currently enjoy were fought and won by others against their oppressors, and if necessary, the people will be triumphant again!!:more:
That said, in terms of what you mentioned, which are essentially 'immunity passports', should they be introduced (I think it's likely), and my own personal situation, it would be a good test of our ability (or anyone else's ability) to be self-sufficient, which is something we've been building towards for years!
For starters, neither of us (my wife or I) needs to work, we have no kids and no debt [mortgage free], everything we own is bought and paid for, plus we grow a lot of our own produce, so that puts US in control of ourselves and our future rather more than most:)
Marco.
anthonyTD
02-12-2020, 10:38
That would seem the case. As for the PCR test, my main beef with that; and going by the explanation of many independent virologists, and those from the scientific, and medical fraternity, is that it doesn’t actually identify the virus, only the debris left in your respiratory system, nasal passage, and throat. Even the person who was credited for the development of this test stated it was not to be used as an accurate method of detecting a particular type of corona virus, as it would be highly inaccurate, when used for this purpose. Now if we were to use a very simple comparison as an example; if the vaccine developed is specific to a particular type of virus, then you would need to know the exact virus your dealing with after having done extensive research to isolate it in its entirety, to prove without doubt that what you have developed is specifically for the job intended, i hope we at least agree on that, now bear with me on this one; lets say you were driving your car on the motorway, and you have a puncture, you may then ring your emergency breakdown service, and explain the situation, they then send out one of their technicians to help, the technician turns up with a wheel and tyre, great, unfortunately he didn’t know that your car was a range rover, and the wheel he’s brought with him is for a Mini :doh: I hope you understand where I am coming from with this, now some will say, well, they don’t need to know the exact car you have as long as the wheel stud pattern is the same, but seriously' how likely is that going to be though ?
Now some may also say that well, it’s a blanket vaccine, it will cover a few versions of Corona virus mutations, again, I say; how likely is that really?
Folks, I really, really hope that what ever the first 20 million people in this country get as far as a vaccine works, and we can all get back to some kind of normality, but I have to admit, until I see the Range rover, and its spare wheel united, I remain a sceptic.
I believe if Covid 19 is found in the patient then it is counted as one more towards the Covid death count, but don't quote me on that. A clearer picture might be overall excess deaths, again not conclusive, as some of those deaths may have been due to other conditions being neglected because of covid (i.e. treatment being postponed).
I believe if Covid 19 is found in the patient then it is counted as one more towards the Covid death count, but don't quote me on that. A clearer picture might be overall excess deaths, again not conclusive, as some of those deaths may have been due to other conditions being neglected because of covid (i.e. treatment being postponed).
Indeed, Mike. All you're doing really is highlighting how potentially flaky the stats are - and if they're so unreliable, how can we trust them and truly *know* just how deadly this virus actually is...??
Marco.
walpurgis
02-12-2020, 10:43
I'm looking forward to being vaccinated. On the understanding that I get an antibody test to follow. No antibody test with positive results would mean there's less point in having the vaccine, 'cos you wouldn't know if it was safe to re-enter 'normal life'.
anthonyTD
02-12-2020, 11:04
:)
I'm looking forward to being vaccinated. On the understanding that I get an antibody test to follow. No antibody test with positive results would mean there's less point in having the vaccine, 'cos you wouldn't know if it was safe to re-enter 'normal life'.
Filterlab
02-12-2020, 11:14
As at this morning, COVID is responsible for (if the figures are even to be believed), 0.0002% of the death of the world’s population.
Vaccinate against that? May as well get vaccinated against car accidents too (1.35 million deaths per annum worldwide). :lol:
The word ‘charade’ comes to mind.
Indeed, but I guess the argument would be that car accidents aren't a transmissible and potentially deadly virus;)
If were going to criticise the pish that's happening just now, it's important we keep it real.
Marco.
Filterlab
02-12-2020, 11:23
Indeed, but I guess the argument would be that car accidents aren't a transmissible and potentially deadly virus;)
They are in Norfolk. :lol:
anthonyTD
02-12-2020, 11:41
For those of you who didnt see one of my previous posts where i included a link for Dr Mike Yeadon, i urge you again to take some time, and watch it, especialy if your interested in Antibodies, and T cell memory, if you don't want to watch it all, then please watch from 15 mins on, i assure you, it will help in understanding how our immune system works, and what is needed to give us long term immunity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bX-wFVBP94
Indeed... I would also urge anyone reading this thread, as a member of the forum, or remotely, who has information they'd like to share in reference to ANY aspect of this 'pandemic', based on real experience or otherwise, or a researched 'conspiracy theory' or otherwise, to COME FORWARD and comment!:)
I can assure you, as owner of this site, that your input (links to relevant websites, etc), no matter how seemingly 'ludicrous' or otherwise, will be given due respect and allowed to be aired without ridicule. Rest assured that you won't be bullied into silence!
Therefore, if you're got something to say, controversial or otherwise, which you think NEEDS saying, then come and join the discussion!
We need as much credible input as possible, for and against how the 'powers that be' have handled this whole affair, to add to the overall pool of information, in order to make unbiased and informed conclusions (and subsequent decisions) on the matter, especially when in many areas free speech is being gagged!!
So don't be shy, come forward and tell us your thoughts!!:cool:
Marco.
I'm looking forward to being vaccinated. On the understanding that I get an antibody test to follow. No antibody test with positive results would mean there's less point in having the vaccine, 'cos you wouldn't know if it was safe to re-enter 'normal life'.
The vaccine works by reducing the number of potential hosts and spreaders of the virus. This is why it will still work for everyone even if not everyone has it.
Once there are no hosts the virus disappears. So you will know the vaccine has been successful when the number of new covid cases drops off to nothing.
This is why there will be no need to issue certificates of vaccination or limit travel etc. Once 50% plus of people are vaccinated the drop off in new cases will be very rapid.
This is also why it does not matter if immunity conferred by the vaccine is short-lived. By the time your immunity wears off there will be no-one infected for you to catch the virus from again.
The vaccine works by reducing the number of potential hosts and spreaders of the virus. This is why it will still work for everyone even if not everyone has it.
Once there are no hosts the virus disappears. So you will know the vaccine has been successful when the number of new covid cases drops off to nothing
This is why there will be no need to issue certificates of vaccination or limit travel etc. Once 50% plus of people are vaccinated the drop off in new cases will be very rapid.
This is also why it does not matter if immunity conferred by the vaccine is short-lived. By the time your immunity wears off there will be no-one infected for you to catch the virus from again.
In terms of the bit in bold, absolutely... But also perhaps because by that time, nature will have run its course and the virus will have naturally petered out, regardless of the intrusion of vaccines;)
Historically, coronaviruses have a finite lifespan (usually around 12-18 months, such as was the case with SARS), so the above is a distinct possibility.
As for the rest, I sincerely hope you're right!:)
In the meantime, some useful fact-based info here, comparing various aspects of different coronaviruses: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-do-sars-and-mers-compare-with-covid-19
Marco.
anthonyTD
02-12-2020, 13:10
If we are to believe the PCR test, then that would be a valid point, unfortunetly going on the evidence of credible people, i highly doubt it!
The vaccine works by reducing the number of potential hosts and spreaders of the virus. This is why it will still work for everyone even if not everyone has it.
Once there are no hosts the virus disappears. So you will know the vaccine has been successful when the number of new covid cases drops off to nothing.
This is why there will be no need to issue certificates of vaccination or limit travel etc. Once 50% plus of people are vaccinated the drop off in new cases will be very rapid.
This is also why it does not matter if immunity conferred by the vaccine is short-lived. By the time your immunity wears off there will be no-one infected for you to catch the virus from again.
If we are to believe the PCR test, then that would be a valid point, unfortunetly going on the evidence of credible people, i highly doubt it!
Well there is nothing that can be done about tests giving false positives except to test the person multiple times.
anthonyTD
02-12-2020, 13:43
The only way to overcome that issue, is to develope a test specificaly for the purpose it was intended!
Well there is nothing that can be done about tests giving false positives except to test the person multiple times.
Meanwhile this, as I've just been watching the BBC Wales news CV conference, which has pretty much confirmed the details outlined in this article: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/people-wales-id-cards-prove-23102143
When you read it, it's a case of blah de blah, de blah, pretty much skirting around the issue of what restrictions might be imposed upon those who don't have the vaccine, and therefore said 'ID Card', until this key bit of info at the end:
His comments came after UK Health Minister Nadhim Zahawi, who is in charge of the rollout of Covid-19 vaccines, suggested that a so-called "immunity passport" was being looked at to identify people who had the jab.
Mr Zahawi said that hospitality and entertainment venues might insist on seeing such a "passport" from customers.
The Health Minister said that the Government was "looking at the technology" so people could show that they had a Covid-19 vaccine. He said: "I think you'll probably find that restaurants and bars and cinemas and other venues, sports venues, will probably also use that system - as they have done with the (test and trace) app."
So there you have it! You can pretty much rest assured now that'll be the case, and therefore in future be refused entry to such places without an ID card.
Let's see how well that one goes down, and how it'll be managed or policed!!! I just see the fights breaking out, with staff in such venues attempting to refuse entry to non-vaccinated folk who want in, drunk or otherwise, on a busy Friday or Saturday night....:punch::punch: CHAOS will ensue!!:doh:
So remind me what you were saying, Martin, about, I quote: "This is why there will be no need to issue certificates of vaccination or limit travel etc."
How long do you think it'll take for ID cards to extend into 'immunity passports' for travel?? And if you think such controls will end when the virus has abated, then you're deeply mistaken, as what incentive would they have to stop them?
If enough people are vaccinated, enabling businesses to trade almost as normal, why would you entertain anyone without an ID card or 'Immunity Passport'...?
Marco.
Well there is nothing that can be done about tests giving false positives except to test the person multiple times.
And how realistic or practical is that? You'd be at it forever, trying to get properly accurate results!:rolleyes:
Marco.
anthonyTD
02-12-2020, 15:17
The next step ??? https://savedmag.com/bill-gates-quantum-dot-digital-tattoo-implant-to-track-covid-19-vaccine-compliance/ Microsoft founder Bill Gates announced on March 18, 2020 during a “Reddit ‘Ask Me Anything’ session” that he is working on a new, invisible “quantum dot tattoo” implant that will track who has been tested for COVID-19 and who has been vaccinated against it.
According to BioHackInfo.Com: “The quantum-dot tattoos involve applying dissolvable sugar-based microneedles that contain a vaccine and fluorescent copper-based ‘quantum dots’ embedded inside biocompatible, micron-scale capsules. After the microneedles dissolve under the skin, they leave the encapsulated quantum dots whose patterns can be read to identify the vaccine that was administered.”
The Covid-19 vaccine is already under research and development and experts say it will likely be available in about 18 months. Will this mean forced vaccinations or perpetually “sheltering in place” for those who refuse the coronavirus vaccine? Gates is simultaneously working on the ID2020 Certification Mark, which according to pymnts.com utilizes “immunization to serve as a platform for digital identity”. The Gates Foundation has also formed an alliance with Accenture, IDEO.org, Gavi, and the Rockefeller Foundation to make ID2020 a reality.
Meanwhile this, as I've just been watching the BBC Wales news CV conference, which has pretty much confirmed the details outlined in this article: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/people-wales-id-cards-prove-23102143
When you read it, it's a case of blah de blah, de blah, pretty much skirting around the issue of what restrictions might be imposed upon those who don't have the vaccine, and therefore said 'ID Card', until this key bit of info at the end:
So there you have it! You can pretty much rest assured now that'll be the case, and therefore in future be refused entry to such places without an ID card.
Let's see how well that one goes down, and how it'll be managed or policed!!! I just see the fights breaking out, with staff in such venues attempting to refuse entry to non-vaccinated folk who want in, drunk or otherwise, on a busy Friday or Saturday night....:punch::punch: CHAOS will ensue!!:doh:
So remind me what you were saying, Martin, about, I quote: "This is why there will be no need to issue certificates of vaccination or limit travel etc."
How long do you think it'll take for ID cards to extend into 'immunity passports' for travel?? And if you think such controls will end when the virus has abated, then you're deeply mistaken, as what incentive would they have to stop them?
If enough people are vaccinated, enabling businesses to trade almost as normal, why would you entertain anyone without an ID card or 'Immunity Passport'...?
Marco.
Well, Martin - any comments?? If not on what Anthony has just posted, on what I did earlier? :popcorn::popcorn:
Marco.
This is interesting: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-could-biometric-id-cards-offer-the-uk-a-lockdown-exit-strategy-11970628
Good old Theresa May said of identity cards:
"It is intrusive and bullying, ineffective and expensive. It is an assault on individual liberty which does not promise a greater good."
Spot on, sweetheart!
Yes indeed it is... Well, that's one thing she was right about!! And if they're to be used in the way that's being suggested, and limit civil liberties like that, there's going to be MASS OPPOSITION to them - resulting in riots.
Nothing is surer!
Marco.
Like most of you folks, I haven't been worrying about the germ too much.
But exciting developments. Us vulnerable oldies are getting the jab within days.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55045639
Bring it on.
Filterlab
02-12-2020, 17:46
And how realistic or practical is that? You'd be at it forever, trying to get properly accurate results!:rolleyes:
Marco.
That reminds me of Elon Musk. He took four tests (on the same day IIRC); two came back positive, two came back negative.
Sigh.
Pigmy Pony
02-12-2020, 18:32
If enough people are vaccinated, enabling businesses to trade almost as normal, why would you entertain anyone without an ID card or 'Immunity Passport'...?
Marco.
I think it unlikely that the hospitality sector will be asking to check "immunity passports" of their clientele, unless compelled to by law. The millions of folk who won't be having the vaccine are too big a chunk of their business to turn away, especially when their businesses are still on their arse after the lockdown.
Like Martin I feel these passports will become unnecessary. Unless certain countries you may be visiting have their own take on this.
Pigmy Pony
02-12-2020, 18:38
That reminds me of Elon Musk. He took four tests (on the same day IIRC); two came back positive, two came back negative.
Sigh.
I've also heard he can't get the doors on his cars to work reliably.
Well, Martin - any comments?? If not on what Anthony has just posted, on what I did earlier? :popcorn::popcorn:
Marco.
Only talk at the moment and only affects Wales in any case. Still can't see it happening in reality.
I think it unlikely that the hospitality sector will be asking to check "immunity passports" of their clientele, unless compelled to by law. The millions of folk who won't be having the vaccine are too big a chunk of their business to turn away, especially when their businesses are still on their arse after the lockdown.
Like Martin I feel these passports will become unnecessary. Unless certain countries you may be visiting have their own take on this.
ID cards, mate, not Immunity passports. The latter is something I'd see more used at border controls in airports, etc.
I'm not so sure... Firstly, it's almost certain that ID cards will become a reality, so if that's the case what's to stop pubs, restaurants, etc, asking to see them before allowing you in?
I get your point about them not wanting to refuse custom, but they're already using track & trace apps, asking for ID, in the form of a bank card, etc, logging a contact telephone number and taking your temperature [all of which I've been subjected to recently before entering such places], presumably with the intention of not allowing you entry until you've fulfilled the required checks...
Are you honestly saying that they'd have let me in otherwise, just because they needed the money? I don't think so... Therefore what's to stop them using ID cards in the same way?
Marco.
Only talk at the moment and only affects Wales in any case. Still can't see it happening in reality.
Well, if it was introduced first in Wales, don't you think they'd soon roll it out nationally, like everything else? Fancy a bet on that one, too? I.E that ID cards will become a reality... I was only 3 months out in my prediction about the vaccine!;)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
02-12-2020, 19:22
ID cards have been talked about for years, we'll see what we shall see :)
walpurgis
02-12-2020, 19:42
ID cards have been talked about for years, we'll see what we shall see :)
They'll have fun persuading the two million illegal immigrants to carry them.
Well, if it was introduced first in Wales, don't you think they'd soon roll it out nationally, like everything else? Fancy a bet on that one, too? I.E that ID cards will become a reality... I was only 3 months out in my prediction about the vaccine!;)
Marco.
Re the vaccine don't forget - I was saying December at the very earliest, my cut off was 31st December since I thought from my study of the form that after that date there was a reasonable possibility of it happening.
There was no way they could have had a vaccine roll out as early as August. You were 3 months too early, I was pretty much on the money :D
ID cards have been talked about for years, we'll see what we shall see :)
Indeed - and I think we'll all be seeing them sooner rather than later! So who fancies a bet on them becoming a reality before next summer?:)
Marco.
They'll have fun persuading the two million illegal immigrants to carry them.
:lolsign:
Marco.
They'll have fun persuading the two million illegal immigrants to carry them.
precisely why I would like to see ID cards - mind you, they would need to be forgery proof and I am not sure that is possible?
I've nothing against ID cards, per se (before all this shite happened), but not used as a tool to discriminate against those of us who'll be refusing a vaccine!!
Marco.
I tend to think that they are needed, but like you I think that vaccination is/should be a choice.
There was talk on the radio (Jeremy Vine "call in") about charging people for hospital treatment should they refuse vaccination and contract the virus, slippery slope in my opinion what other choices that people make should result in having to pay for hospital treatment - drinking too much, eating too much, smoking, taking drugs, driving too fast? the possibilities are endless.
I think ID cards are needed, but only for the reasons necessary before Covid came. As for the rest, nothing like that would surprise me. As I said though, if they want a civil war, they're going about it the right way!;)
In terms of vaccines, the question now isn't 'Will they be made mandatory?', but rather 'How many loss of freedoms/restrictions will be imposed upon those who refuse one, in order to force them to change their minds?'
And we thought we lived in a free country!!!!!
Marco.
Filterlab
02-12-2020, 21:02
I tend to think that they are needed, but like you I think that vaccination is/should be a choice.
There was talk on the radio (Jeremy Vine "call in") about charging people for hospital treatment should they refuse vaccination and contract the virus, slippery slope in my opinion what other choices that people make should result in having to pay for hospital treatment - drinking too much, eating too much, smoking, taking drugs, driving too fast? the possibilities are endless.
Slippery slope indeed. Plus I do believe that we’re already charged for hospital treatment - whether we need it or not.
I've also heard he can't get the doors on his cars to work reliably.
Not quite sure how that parallels to the medical teams taking and processing his tests.
precisely why I would like to see ID cards - mind you, they would need to be forgery proof and I am not sure that is possible?
And would you pay for them? The Blair government talked about introducing them, and I think they were wanting to charge you ~ £100.
I already have photo ID: a photo driver's licence; a current passport - and my bus pass (though I'm not sure if that is accepted). Why should I have to pay anything to prove my existence?
There's a terrific Joke about Frank Sinatra. He turns up in the local bank. The (female) teller recognises him immediately. Tells him she loves his records.
He wants to cash a cheque. She is bound by Bank rules. Can you prove you are Frank Sinatra? I mean, REALLY? :lol:
And would you pay for them? The Blair government talked about introducing them, and I think they were wanting to charge you ~ £100.
They would have to be free - some families have to use food banks, so they obviously couldn't afford to pay for them, perhaps they could be a "gift from the nation" to welcome each newborn child in to the community :)
already have photo ID: a photo driver's licence; a current passport - and my bus pass (though I'm not sure if that is accepted). Why should I have to pay anything to prove my existence?
From my point of view it is not so much about proving who you are, but proving that you actually have a legal right to reside in this country.
walpurgis
03-12-2020, 09:03
RFID implants for all. Problem solved!
anthonyTD
03-12-2020, 09:45
:)
Its not about proving who you are though Barry, its about taking away one's rights if you don't comply with whatever Bollox they come out with next! :rolleyes:
I already have photo ID: a photo driver's licence; a current passport - and my bus pass (though I'm not sure if that is accepted). Why should I have to pay anything to prove my existence?
:)
Its not about proving who you are though Barry, its about taking away one's rights if you don't comply with whatever Bollox they come out with next! :rolleyes:
Exactly - in the current situation, that's the MAIN point!! :)
Marco.
RFID implants for all. Problem solved!
Perhaps combined with execution for the fatties who look ridiculous in leggings?
Marco.
anthonyTD
03-12-2020, 09:51
Aye,:) why not go the full hog, chip us all at birth, all your personal details uploaded to it as you grow, including health and financial details, no need for any checks where ever you walk, as the inferstructure provided by what ever G technology is current will pick you up where ever you are, sounds great doesent it, until you step out of line, what then, wake up one morning, all those personal and financial details gone, can't even prove who the hell you are, nice! :eek: :D
RFID implants for all. Problem solved!
anthonyTD
03-12-2020, 10:13
Anyway, back to the matter in hand,
Here is a small potion that came from a larger more indepth Story, i hope it will temp those interested to go to the full article, which is at the link provided.
While paying close attention to data, we all initially focused on the sad matter of deaths. I found it remarkable that, in discussing the COVID-19 related deaths, most people I spoke to had no idea of large numbers. Asked approximately how many people a year die in the UK in the ordinary course of events, each a personal tragedy, They usually didn’t know. I had to inform them it is around 620,000, sometimes less if we had a mild winter, sometimes quite a bit higher if we had a severe ’flu season. I mention this number because we know that around 42,000 people have died with or of COVID-19. While it’s a huge number of people, its ‘only’ 0.06% of the UK population. Its not a coincidence that this is almost the same proportion who have died with or of COVID-19 in each of the heavily infected European countries – for example, Sweden. The annual all-causes mortality of 620,000 amounts to 1,700 per day, lower in summer and higher in winter. That has always been the lot of humans in the temperate zones. So for context, 42,000 is about ~24 days worth of normal mortality. Please know I am not minimising it, just trying to get some perspective on it. Deaths of this magnitude are not uncommon, and can occur in the more severe flu seasons. Flu vaccines help a little, but on only three occasions in the last decade did vaccination reach 50% effectiveness. They’re good, but they’ve never been magic bullets for respiratory viruses. Instead, we have learned to live with such viruses, ranging from numerous common colds all the way to pneumonias which can kill. Medicines and human caring do their best.
So, to this article. Its about the testing we do with something called PCR, an amplification technique, better known to biologists as a research tool used in our labs, when trying to unpick mechanisms of disease. I was frankly astonished to realise they’re sometimes used in population screening for diseases – astonished because it is a very exacting technique, prone to invisible errors and it’s quite a tall order to get reliable information out of it, especially because of the prodigious amounts of amplification involved in attempting to pick up a strand of viral genetic code. The test cannot distinguish between a living virus and a short strand of RNA from a virus which broke into pieces weeks or months ago.
I believe I have identified a serious, really a fatal flaw in the PCR test used in what is called by the UK Government the Pillar 2 screening – that is, testing many people out in their communities. I’m going to go through this with care and in detail because I’m a scientist and dislike where this investigation takes me. I’m not particularly political and my preference is for competent, honest administration over the actual policies chosen. We’re a reasonable lot in UK and not much given to extremes. What I’m particularly reluctant about is that, by following the evidence, I have no choice but to show that the Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, misled the House of Commons and also made misleading statements in a radio interview. Those are serious accusations. I know that. I’m not a ruthless person. But I’m writing this anyway, because what I have uncovered is of monumental importance to the health and wellbeing of all the people living in the nation I have always called home.
https://lockdownsceptics.org/lies-damned-lies-and-health-statistics-the-deadly-danger-of-false-positives/
walpurgis
03-12-2020, 10:15
Perhaps combined with execution for the fatties who look ridiculous in leggings?
Marco.
Don't forget chavs on benefits.
They've had their accounts cancelled at Primark and are banned from all outlets of KFC. That should keep them at bay for a while.
Marco.
Anyway, back to the matter in hand,
Here is a small potion that came from a larger more indepth Story, i hope it will temp those interested to go to the full article, which is at the link provided.
https://lockdownsceptics.org/lies-damned-lies-and-health-statistics-the-deadly-danger-of-false-positives/
Most interesting, Anthony, and provides some much needed balance to some of the bullshit and lies currently being perpetrated by the Government and media! Voices like that should be being heard on mainstream platforms and national TV, not hidden away on some obscure website....
Marco.
walpurgis
03-12-2020, 11:04
They've had their accounts cancelled at Primark and are banned from all outlets of KFC. That should keep them at bay for a while.
Marco.
They can all go in the betting shop (as usual) and infect each other. Better be quick though, as they all close from today! :)
Filterlab
03-12-2020, 13:14
They can all go in the betting shop (as usual) and infect each other. Better be quick though, as they all close from today! :)
Is that because the government doesn’t like competition when it comes to throwing away other peoples’ money?
:)
Its not about proving who you are though Barry, its about taking away one's rights if you don't comply with whatever Bollox they come out with next! :rolleyes:
And how will they do that? The only way is if everyone agrees to have one and you cannot go anywhere or buy anything without it.
Such a draconian regime was proposed to the population of Singapore, with the promise that crime would be drastically reduced. The population voted yes, and they now cannot go anywhere without the ID: cannot board buses, trains, or the subway without the card. The government, in theory, knows where everyone is at any time, and what they have bought.
But the crime rate has plummeted.
So, I can't work out whether from that you think ID cards are a good idea or not...:scratch:
I'm presuming not....
Also, do you think they'll be introduced here and used in relation to the vaccine?
Marco.
No, I don't think compulsory IDs are a good idea and I would refuse to carry one. Why should I? - it's my birthright.
Another layer of bureaucracy; the card would have to be renewed every five years or less (so the photo is up to date), to add to a possible creeping totalitarian state mechanism.
I don't think they will be introduced here, nor do I think there will any internal vaccination 'passport' requirement, but other countries (including the EU) may require proof of vaccination for entry, just as they do for other diseases (such as Yellow Fever for example).
Interesting, Barry... We're broadly in agreement - at least on the abhorrent nature of a "creeping totalitarian state mechanism":) We need to fight against that with all our might!!
The only area where we may differ, and where my views are in alignment with Guy, is that the illegal immigrant situation is grossly out of control, and so *something* drastic needs doing to address that. Exactly what, I'm not sure.
Marco.
anthonyTD
03-12-2020, 16:10
You've just answered! :eek:
And how will they do that? The only way is if everyone agrees to have one and you cannot go anywhere or buy anything without it.
A...
Such a draconian regime was proposed to the population of Singapore, with the promise that crime would be drastically reduced. The population voted yes, and they now cannot go anywhere without the ID: cannot board buses, trains, or the subway without the card. The government, in theory, knows where everyone is at any time, and what they have bought.
But the crime rate has plummeted.
This is what happened last time they tried it, and that was only for voluntary identity cards:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006
Also
Foreign nationals from outside the European Union, however, continue to require an ID card for use as a biometric residence permit under the provisions of the UK Borders Act 2007 and the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009.[8][9]
I don't see how compulsory identity cards would have any effect on illegal immigration.
This is what happened last time they tried it, and that was only for voluntary identity cards:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006
So, without having to read all of that, I'm presuming it didn't work?:)
Marco.
You've just answered! :eek:
Yes, but I think the idea was suggested to the Singaporeans and voted on by a referendum (with, I hope, a very high majority target). The population chose it, it was not imposed on them.
So, without having to read all of that, I'm presuming it didn't work?:)
Marco.
Expensive, unworkable, unpopular and pointless.
Yes, but I think the idea was suggested to the Singaporeans and voted on by a referendum (with, I hope, a very high majority target). The population chose it, it was not imposed on them.
Just shows you the fundamental difference in mentality between theirs and ours [especially mine]... I couldn't think of anything worse, and would be horrified if that ever happened here!:eek:
One thing I utterly DETEST is being controlled or 'beholden'/subservient to ANYONE or ANYTHING... I'm simply not used to it. I value my freedom too much - almost above ALL else!:)
Marco.
Expensive, unworkable, unpopular and pointless.
Nicely précised! I presume you agree with Barry then, and consider that ID cards are unlikely to be introduced now or in the near future? Don't you think though that the vaccine adds another dimension into the mix, which potentially could change matters?
Marco.
"You can be sent to jail for 5 years and pay an unlimited fine if you’re found guilty of employing someone who you knew or had ‘reasonable cause to believe’ did not have the right to work in the UK."
https://www.gov.uk/penalties-for-employing-illegal-workers
There are, potentially, 1,000,000 people in the UK without the legal right to be here. They must be making money to live.
To make it easier for employers to identify whether a person has the "right to work" here, and remove the "reasonable cause to believe" defence, it would seem logical that an identity card would remove any uncertainty. In fact it would be reasonable to expect that any employer would keep a record/copy of the ID.
By no means a perfect solution as people would lose/forget to have ID with them, but short of implants/tatoos on foreheads at least it would send a message that Gov UK was taking the matter seriously.
walpurgis
03-12-2020, 18:30
What's the betting that the coming New Year's Honours will include some Covid-19 related nominations? I could see Whitty and Van-Tam being in there.
Applicants need only produce a birth certificate, a driving licence, or a passport if requested by an employer.
Nicely précised! I presume you agree with Barry then, and consider that ID cards are unlikely to be introduced now or in the near future? Don't you think though that the vaccine adds another dimension into the mix, which potentially could change matters?
Marco.
Yes and yes. But still can't see it happening based on what happened last time.
It's the sort of thing Governments tend to look at late in the second term when they've run out of ideas. they've got enough on the plate already. Once covid is over there's an economic hole to climb out of, plus it's Brexit in four weeks time.
What's the betting that the coming New Year's Honours will include some Covid-19 related nominations? I could see Whitty and Van-Tam being in there.
The Honours system is rapidly heading towards disrepute. If they want to reverse the damage to the institution, they should give the NHS as a whole an honour.
Filterlab
03-12-2020, 18:47
Expensive, unworkable, unpopular and pointless.
Sounds like Bojo. :lol:
The Honours system is rapidly heading towards disrepute.
That happened years ago when they made Jeffrey Archer a Lord.
the "lavender list" - I rest my case m'lud
Filterlab
03-12-2020, 20:10
Applicants need only produce a birth certificate, a driving licence, or a passport if requested by an employer.
For New Year’s Honours?
For New Year’s Honours?
No, for that, in addition, you will need to have presented a blank cheque
Or have a penchant for young boys.
Marco.
Or have a penchant for young boys.
Marco.
not sure that it is gender specific, just young :(
For New Year’s Honours?
No, that was in response to Guy's post.
Pigmy Pony
03-12-2020, 20:26
Has anyone here any idea what happened to my last post? it wasn't game-changing, wasn't insightful, wasn't even intelligent, but it was here. And now it's not. How can that happen?
No, that was in response to Guy's post.
Ahh, I didn't realise - trouble is the current system does not work, so perhaps (and I am not certain about this) something which includes biometrics is needed?
Has anyone here any idea what happened to my last post? it wasn't game-changing, wasn't insightful, wasn't even intelligent, but it was here. And now it's not. How can that happen?
You iz imagining things, daftee... Must be 60+ senility!:D
Seriously though, I can see the stats, and your last post was the one above!
Marco.
Ahh, I didn't realise - trouble is the current system does not work, so perhaps (and I am not certain about this) something which includes biometrics is needed?
They can give me an ID, and I am content to provide fingerprints. But I will not pay for it, nor to having it compulsory to carry it.
The only biometric information I will give is a photo, or fingerprints. I will not allow them to take a retinal scan, as that is an invasion of my body. (I do have an annual retinopathy scan as I am Type II diabetic, but I consent to do that - it is not forced upon me.)
Filterlab
03-12-2020, 21:03
No, for that, in addition, you will need to have presented a blank cheque
:lol:
No, that was in response to Guy's post.
Ahhh. Quite a mix of conversations going on here. Hard to keep a track of who’s replying to whom.
Has anyone here any idea what happened to my last post? it wasn't game-changing, wasn't insightful, wasn't even intelligent, but it was here. And now it's not. How can that happen?
Glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something.
Filterlab
03-12-2020, 21:09
https://i.ibb.co/mqcT7LW/31-B07795-B471-4-A31-91-BA-50-FEA9-E6-AE7-B.jpg (https://ibb.co/6PWw53C)
walpurgis
03-12-2020, 21:17
Has anyone here any idea what happened to my last post? it wasn't game-changing, wasn't insightful, wasn't even intelligent, but it was here. And now it's not. How can that happen?
Did you check between the cushions on the sofa? :)
Filterlab
03-12-2020, 21:19
It’ll be in that little dish of stuff by the door.
Glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something.
Yes, usually when the parametric discombobulator misaligns with the axis of the piloerection flange.
You know how it is.
Marco.
Filterlab
03-12-2020, 21:50
Yes, usually when the parametric discombobulator misaligns with the axis of the piloerection flange.
Would that be the hemispherical gas sphere retention piloerection flange, or the forged T-beam piloerection flange?
Dunno, you were last to play with it!:D
Marco.
Filterlab
03-12-2020, 22:00
:lol:
Gas one then.
Pigmy Pony
04-12-2020, 06:46
Did you check between the cushions on the sofa? :)
First place i checked, and I'm glad I did - I can afford to take today off work :)
Pigmy Pony
04-12-2020, 06:50
It’ll be in that little dish of stuff by the door.
:doh: Of course, the litter tray! Where I get most of my ideas!
First place i checked, and I'm glad I did - I can afford to take today off work :)
I do like it when that happens :champagne:
Yes, usually when the parametric discombobulator misaligns with the axis of the piloerection flange.
You know how it is.
Marco.
Often occurs when someone fiddles with The Azimuth Coordinator, which as you (and especially Nick ;) ) will know, is part of The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes.
Sounds like a pinky. You a pinky boy!??? [emoji23]
Pigmy Pony
04-12-2020, 17:33
Sounds like a pinky. You a pinky boy!??? [emoji23]
Don't know what that means, but it sounds bad. So yes, I probably am :)
Mikeandvan
04-12-2020, 17:43
Seeing as the UK vaccine was rushed out that makes me even more hesitant to take it, I'll be back of the queue anyway, been reading some things online about it, if your healthy, perhaps best not to take it.
dont think it was rushed in a dangerous way. it was just approached in a way that would allow faster deployment if it passed muster. they have been checking the data since july afaik. other countries decided to wait til the application to do the data checks. the uk has an enviable record in medicine
Don't know what that means, but it sounds bad. So yes, I probably am :)
it was a pink floyd album or collection i think, as was the hercules version.
i vaguely remember summat about the names
I think it is slang for a "white boy" :lol:
Don't know what that means, but it sounds bad. So yes, I probably am :)
I've always seen you more as a 'brown rim':D
Marco.
Anybody as bored and fed up with the germ as me?
Can't go anywhere, can't see people, can't give or get a hug? Drinking like the pirate for lack of anything else to do. :(
Ah well. Private Eye magazine cover cheered me up tonight.
"Oxford Scientist in Breakthrough":
Picture of Boris Johnson (in a white medical coat) staring at some medical samples.
"Yes! I'm 90% useless!" :lol:
Filterlab
05-12-2020, 10:37
Often occurs when someone fiddles with The Azimuth Coordinator, which as you (and especially Nick ;) ) will know, is part of The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes.
Darn that Azimuth Coordinator!
mad-moon
05-12-2020, 16:09
Seeing as the UK vaccine was rushed out that makes me even more hesitant to take it, I'll be back of the queue anyway, been reading some things online about it, if your healthy, perhaps best not to take it.
Haway Mike..you can't leave it hanging there...tell us what you have been reading about the vaccine?? or better still show us some links...
Stryder5
06-12-2020, 14:28
RT UK have an interesting article on the vaccine.
Quotes from Pfizer itself and the great advocate (sic) Dr Fauci.
Gary
What's RT UK? Link please!:)
Marco.
What's RT UK? Link please!:)
Marco.
Russia Today
Lol - like that was obvious! Thanks:)
So how does one access the article in question?
Marco.
I had a look but couldn't see anything about the vaccines.
Anyway reading RT is the same as tuning into Lord Haw-Haw's programme during the war.
Lol... But you see that's the problem (and also one of my per hates. Sorry, Gary), someone coming in and saying something that to them is obvious, without providing a means with which to explain it:doh:
If it's been me, I'd have said: "RT UK have an interesting article on the vaccine", and then supplied the relevant link. Makes it a damn sight easier to find out that way, no?:D
Marco.
Stryder5
06-12-2020, 19:59
Lol... But you see that's the problem (and also one of my per hates. Sorry, Gary), someone coming in and saying something that to them is obvious, without providing a means with which to explain it:doh:
If it's been me, I'd have said: "RT UK have an interesting article on the vaccine", and then supplied the relevant link. Makes it a damn sight easier to find out that way, no?:D
Marco.
I did try and add a link but my iPad decided it wasn’t going to play ball any which way.
Gary
I did try and add a link but my iPad decided it wasn’t going to play ball any which way.
Lol - no worries... That's why I hate those things and only use a proper computer for posting on forums:)
Marco.
Stryder5
06-12-2020, 21:02
OK, try this
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2020/12/95-vaccine-efficacy-not-so-fast/
Gary
The Vinyl Adventure
06-12-2020, 22:12
Lol... But you see that's the problem (and also one of my per hates. Sorry, Gary), someone coming in and saying something that to them is obvious, without providing a means with which to explain it:doh:
If it's been me, I'd have said: "RT UK have an interesting article on the vaccine", and then supplied the relevant link. Makes it a damn sight easier to find out that way, no?:D
Marco.
Have you booked a flight to russia then to get the vaccine chief? LOL
We won't be eligible till this time next year in the UK as we are way down the pecking list (not that I am getting it no way).
Lol - ditto.... And by then, there'll be almost nothing left of the virus in circulation to vaccinate against:)
Marco.
OK, try this
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2020/12/95-vaccine-efficacy-not-so-fast/
Gary
Cheers, I'll have a look later.
Marco.
mad-moon
06-12-2020, 23:04
RT UK have an interesting article on the vaccine.
Quotes from Pfizer itself and the great advocate (sic) Dr Fauci.
Gary
Dr Fauci...changes his story more times than he changes his knickers.....
Indeed, and that twat's not to be trusted, Alan, honestly!:nono:
Marco.
OK, try this
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2020/12/95-vaccine-efficacy-not-so-fast/
Gary
:eek:
I'm not totally surprised but "god damn" seems like an appropriate response.
https://youtu.be/8JF9q0KSBOc
Marco.
OK, try this
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2020/12/95-vaccine-efficacy-not-so-fast/
Gary
dodgy site that. I notice that they don't mention that of those who had the vaccine and still contracted Covid, none required hospitalisation or were classed as a serious case.
Stryder5
07-12-2020, 13:33
dodgy site that. I notice that they don't mention that of those who had the vaccine and still contracted Covid, none required hospitalisation or were classed as a serious case.
Not in the same league as BBC and the rest of MSM (MainStream Media).
I couldn’t list the lies, fabrications and untruths that has issued from their portals.
Gary
anthonyTD
07-12-2020, 14:08
One thing i do know and that is; they need to stop testing people now, and just let people get back to their live's, instead of trying desperately to fabricate the positive numbers with a crap testing system that was never intended to be used for a such a purpose!
Anyone who has previously had covid, or Flu, or even a cold may still have remnants left over in their nasal passages, and throat from a previous infection weeks ago, which they are now totaly over, this is without doubt where many of the positive test figures are coming from, just stop, according to independent medical personell, the bloody virus was on its way out months ago! :doh:
Stryder5
07-12-2020, 17:44
^^^ :clapclapclap:
Gary
dodgy site that. I notice that they don't mention that of those who had the vaccine and still contracted Covid, none required hospitalisation or were classed as a serious case.
Unfortunately that kind of attention doesn't seem to be give anywhere for anything.
"We've got so many patients we're scared we'll get to full capacity" Somehow has different meaning in 2020 than in literally every year, every winter, before it.
Stryder5
08-12-2020, 08:31
Unfortunately that kind of attention doesn't seem to be give anywhere for anything.
"We've got so many patients we're scared we'll get to full capacity" Somehow has different meaning in 2020 than in literally every year, every winter, before it.
This year it seems to mean that of the 10 high dependency beds we have 7 are being used for a variety of ailments.
All of our total hospitals 1000 beds are at 50% occupancy!
Gary
anthonyTD
08-12-2020, 09:55
I heard on the BBC truthvine this morning that the first person to have the new Vaccine was a 90 year old grandmother in Ireland, how did that come about ? :scratch:
I would have thought after the laboratory staff, the medical staff in the hospitals, and GP's would be queing up to throw themselves under the bus first! :rolleyes:
A...
daughter gets hers this afternoon...:)
anthonyTD
08-12-2020, 10:59
For those who would like to know where the idea for the new Vaccine came from!
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/business/biontech-covid-vaccine.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB
walpurgis
08-12-2020, 11:12
daughter gets hers this afternoon...:)
Good for her! :thumbsup:
daughter gets hers this afternoon...:)
Hope it all goes well, mate:)
Marco.
anthonyTD
08-12-2020, 11:30
+1 :)
Hope it all goes well, mate:)
Marco.
second person to get the jab was in coventry... his name was william shakespeare.... People on social media came up with "The Taming of the Flu" and "The Gentleman of Corona".
anthonyTD
08-12-2020, 14:40
:eek:
second person to get the jab was in coventry... his name was william shakespeare.... People on social media came up with "The Taming of the Flu" and "The Gentleman of Corona".
I've heard that Lord Lucan's next in line.
Marco.
I've heard that Lord Lucan's next in line.
Marco.
no, im further down line :eyebrows:
Stryder5
08-12-2020, 18:36
The Dead Terrorist (Jeff Dunham’s friend) has nothing to lose.
Gary
my how times change:
"Mark Drakeford, said police forces on both sides of the border would have a role to play to make sure English residents do not illegally cross the border when the Welsh hospitality industry reopens next week after Wales’ 17-day “firebreak” lockdown ends."
02/10/20. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/02/first-minister-worried-people-will-travel-to-wales-to-escape-english-lockdown-covid
"The first minister called on people not to travel from Wales to areas in England where pubs and restaurants would be open. He said: “Observe the rules where you live; don’t try to game the rules.”"
30/10/20. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/30/pubs-in-wales-to-close-by-6pm-under-new-covid-restrictions
No mention of legality or use of police this time :scratch:
my how times change:
"Mark Drakeford, said police forces on both sides of the border would have a role to play to make sure English residents do not illegally cross the border when the Welsh hospitality industry reopens next week after Wales’ 17-day “firebreak” lockdown ends."
02/10/20. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/02/first-minister-worried-people-will-travel-to-wales-to-escape-english-lockdown-covid
"The first minister called on people not to travel from Wales to areas in England where pubs and restaurants would be open. He said: “Observe the rules where you live; don’t try to game the rules.”"
30/10/20. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/30/pubs-in-wales-to-close-by-6pm-under-new-covid-restrictions
No mention of legality or use of police this time :scratch:
Keeping the Welsh in Wales. Just like old times.
We'll need to reinforce Offa's Dyke and re-activate the Border Marches - a lot of the infrastructure is still in place thankfully.
"The first minister called on people not to travel from Wales to areas in England where pubs and restaurants would be open. He said: “Observe the rules where you live; don’t try to game the rules.”"
That's also a rather woolly message to send out. What does he mean by "game the rules"? Here are the rules: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55170248
Noting: "People will be able to travel from Wales to tier one and two areas in England and Scotland from Friday. The new regulations prohibit travel into tier three zones in England, tiers three and four in Scotland and the whole of Northern Ireland."
So... After having laid out those rules, does he honestly expect people in Wales who've been locked down and 'imprisoned' within their own borders (as indeed have others throughout the UK) NOT to enjoy having access to parts of England where they've been wanting to visit for ages?
Either ban such travel altogether, or if it's allowed, don't make silly references to "gaming the rules"!:doh:
Marco.
Absolutely right Marco - for me though it was his change in attitude, from using police to prevent people travelling from England to Wales for a drink to the wooly "game the rules" when the reverse situation of travel from Wales to England became the "attractive" option for drinkers :unfair:
Yes indeed, the same precedent should also apply the other way round! Fair's fair:)
I get that he'd prefer if people minimised travelling to England, in order to limit the danger of transmitting the virus, but it's the snide remarks about 'gaming the rules' that were both unhelpful and uncalled for.
If he's going to allow such travelling to happen, then he needs to allow people to exercise their own prudent judgement in that respect.
Marco.
Filterlab
09-12-2020, 07:50
One thing i do know and that is; they need to stop testing people now, and just let people get back to their live's, instead of trying desperately to fabricate the positive numbers with a crap testing system that was never intended to be used for a such a purpose!
Anyone who has previously had covid, or Flu, or even a cold may still have remnants left over in their nasal passages, and throat from a previous infection weeks ago, which they are now totaly over, this is without doubt where many of the positive test figures are coming from, just stop, according to independent medical personell, the bloody virus was on its way out months ago! :doh:
+50
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/12/10/the-three-groups-of-people-advised-not-to-get-the-pfizer-covid-v/
This is precisely what I was on about... Insufficiently exhaustive testing for safety, *for everyone*, before this vaccine was rolled out! Why didn't they consider the possibility of such allergic reactions, and test for it properly, among volunteers, before its general release??:doh:
What if the NHS workers in question had died?
It's disgraceful, and simply adds to the lack of trust people have in the genuine safety of this vaccine, due to it being rushed out without having been properly [exhaustively] tested. One wonders what other possible side-effects may transpire for those who've had the jab, in the medium to long term...?
Granty, how's your daughter feeling, after having had it? I hope she's ok. There was a poll taken this morning on Good Morning Britain, indicating that only 57% of the UK population want the vaccine, so that tells its own story, and that figure isn't likely to improve, if something else shows up that calls into question its safety.
Marco.
https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/12/10/the-three-groups-of-people-advised-not-to-get-the-pfizer-covid-v/
This is precisely what I was on about... Insufficiently exhaustive testing for safety, *for everyone*, before this vaccine was rolled out! Why didn't they consider the possibility of such allergic reactions, and test for it properly, among volunteers, before its general release??:doh:
What if the NHS workers in question had died? It's disgraceful, and simply adds to the lack of trust people have in the genuine safety of this vaccine, due to it being rushed out without having been properly [exhaustively] tested. One wonders what other possible side-effects may transpire for those who've had the jab, in the medium to long term...?
Granty, how's your daughter feeling, after having had it? I hope she's ok. There was a poll taken this morning on Good Morning Britain, indicating that only 57% of the UK population want the vaccine, so that tells its own story, and that figure isn't likely to improve if something else shows up that calls into question its safety.
Marco.
It was two people out of thousands treated and both had a history of severe allergic reactions to the extent that they carried adrenaline auto-injectors on them at all times. And both have completely recovered.
Doesn't matter, mate. Two people is two too many - IF they could've died!!
They should've considered people with a history of severe allergic reactions, and tested for it properly among volunteers, BEFORE rolling out the vaccine. Simples.
Plus, look at the above list now of people recommended not to take it, including children and pregnant women. None of that seemed to have been considered beforehand.
Marco.
Doesn't matter, mate. Two people is two too many - IF they could've died!!
They should've considered people with a history of severe allergic reactions, and tested for it properly among volunteers, BEFORE rolling out the vaccine! Simples.
Marco.
I don't think you get many people who suffer from severe allergic reactions volunteering for medical experiments though.
I'm surprised that given their medical history they still gave them the vaccine. You'd have thought the individuals concerned would have asked questions before taking it even if no-one else did. Did they and were told it would be fine? We don't know.
From what I can glean from reading around allergic reactions to vaccines is rare but not unknown.
walpurgis
10-12-2020, 22:18
It is normal for vaccination programmes to have a small proportion of recipients who display a reaction to varying degrees. I'm anticipating that possibility when I have mine, but I will have it! And yes, I have had very nearly fatal anaphylaxis in the past.
I'm surprised that given their medical history they still gave them the vaccine. You'd have thought the individuals concerned would have asked questions before taking it even if no-one else did. Did they and were told it would be fine? We don't know.
Exactly; it raises all those valid questions (and more) that don't exactly inspire confidence in people taking this vaccine... It just puts many others and me off even more!
Quite simply, it beggars belief that the supposed 'experts' didn't consider the likelihood of such reactions beforehand, however rare, and seek to ASK recipients (who would've surely confirmed it), if they had such a history, BEFORE giving them the vaccine:doh:
Utterly gross incompetence, IMO, which could've led to a fatal outcome. You simply can't make such basic and unforgivable errors of judgement in something that's SO vitally important as peoples lives!!
Marco.
I'm anticipating that possibility when I have mine, but I will have it! And yes, I have had very nearly fatal anaphylaxis in the past.
Seems rather risky to me, Geoff. given the circumstances, but I respect your decision to take it, and hope all goes well.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
11-12-2020, 07:42
Pretty much everything we do in life carries some risk. Every time you go to overtake a car you're taking a risk, in fact just driving off from home does too. I'd wager (if such a survey was ever carried out) that you're far more likely to die in a car crash than from taking the vaccine. But the remote possibility of death/serious injury didn't keep you from driving over to York last week, and that wasn't to obtain something potentially lifesaving, it was just to have a nice day out and pick up a few bits :)
As I've said before, most of our actions are done on a risk/reward basis, albeit subconsciously, and I for one am prepared to risk possible problems with the jab if it can bring forward the day when we can get back to "normal", enabling everyone to enjoy a nice a day out in York* without fear of infection or infecting others, asap :carrot:
*Not just York, that would be chaos :doh:
Exactly; it raises all those valid questions (and more) that don't exactly inspire confidence in people taking this vaccine... It just puts many others and me off even more!
Quite simply, it beggars belief that the supposed 'experts' didn't consider the likelihood of such beforehand, however rare, and seek to ASK recipients (who would've surely confirmed it), if they had such a history, BEFORE giving them the vaccine:doh:
Utterly gross incompetence, IMO, which could've led to a fatal outcome. You simply can't make such basic and unforgivable errors of judgement in something that's SO vitally important as peoples lives!!
Marco.
Well we don't know the full story so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.
Well, you 'jump to' whatever conclusion seems reasonable in the circumstances - and that one seems as reasonable as any other. Do you think we'll evert get the full story? I doubt it!
Marco.
Pretty much everything we do in life carries some risk. Every time you go to overtake a car you're taking a risk, in fact just driving off from home does too. I'd wager (if such a survey was ever carried out) that you're far more likely to die in a car crash than from taking the vaccine.
Indeed, and the same applies to those refusing to leave their house, for fear of catching the virus and dying:ner:;)
And, in reality, unless you're in a high risk category, the risk of dying from Covid is almost certainly less likely than taking your car out onto the road and attempting a dodgy overtaking manoeuvre!
As I've said before, most of our actions are done on a risk/reward basis...
Absolutely, but all you're doing is confirming what I've just said, which that applies to every bit as much, as to the point you were making:)
Marco.
Granty, how's your daughter feeling, after having had it? I hope she's ok.
:popcorn::popcorn:
:)
Marco.
:popcorn::popcorn:
:)
Marco.
she is fine. no issues afaik.
Brilliant, mate. Long may that be the case and that she stays safe:)
Marco.
Stryder5
11-12-2020, 09:45
Being the cynic that I am, what if all this is spin?
Information from MainStream Media on anything about Coronavirus, CORVID-19 has been known for untruths.
Could this be more likely a bit more brainwashing. “LOOK even when you get side effects it’s really nothing to worry about”.
28988
Gary
Doesn't matter, mate. Two people is two too many - IF they could've died!!
They should've considered people with a history of severe allergic reactions, and tested for it properly among volunteers, BEFORE rolling out the vaccine. Simples.
Plus, look at the above list now of people recommended not to take it, including children and pregnant women. None of that seems to have been considered.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
11-12-2020, 17:28
Indeed, and the same applies to those refusing to leave their house, for fear of catching the virus and dying:ner:;)
I assume you're referring to those "at risk", their refusal to leave the house seems quite reasonable to me, considering the "reward" is to get some shopping in, which they can have delivered.
And, in reality, unless you're in a high risk category, the risk of dying from Covid is almost certainly less likely than taking your car out onto the road and attempting a dodgy overtaking manoeuvre!
The risk of dying or becoming seriously ill as a result of having the jab is likely to be less than either of the above. Time will tell, and if the vaccine turns out to be a death-dealing disaster, I'll be prepared to say, "You were right, I was wrong". And obviously if it doesn't, I know you'll be saying the same :)
Absolutely, but all you're doing is confirming what I've just said, which that applies to every bit as much, as to the point you were making:)
Sorry, maybe I'm tired, but this last sentence makes no sense - too wordy, too convoluted :ner:
Marco.
These posts are doing my head in, I've no idea how it got to look like this:(
Lol... If I can be bothered deciphering that lot, I'll come back to you!:D
Marco.
P.S One day I'll teach you how to do quotes:ner:
OMG, I have been closer to the Germ than I expected... :eek:
The young students 20 yards over the road all had it last Month. And self-isolated and lived. As expected.
My skinny 80-y-o house neighbour "Chelsea" worried us all lately. He put the dustbins out on a Tuesday instead of the correct Wednesday. :scratch:
Confused me because I thought I was losing track of time. But it was he.
Then he disappeared for weeks. Which worried us all, but I paid him a visit under landlords instructions to ascertain he was alive. And he was, although seeming severely out of it.
I assumed he was hitting the bottle harder than usual. Turns out he was delirious with illness. Turns out he had "The Covis" (sic). His 4 main pub drinking buddies had 'phoned him to tell him they all tested positive.
Anyway, all is well. He says he had never felt worse in his life. 3 weeks of coughing and mostly staying in his room. But now feels well enough to go back to the pub:
"The stupid thing now, is if I want a pint, I have to buy 2 Scotch Eggs for a Pound. Because you can only buy drink with food. I don't even have to eat them. Just leave them on the table in case the inspectors come in. But the strangest thing is it was only the men who caught it. None of the women." :lol:
Those scotch eggs can kill a man faster than covid.
anthonyTD
14-12-2020, 11:51
Its the Scotch Egg breath of death! :eek::D
Those scotch eggs can kill a man faster than covid.
Filterlab
14-12-2020, 19:52
Those scotch eggs can kill a man faster than covid.
:lol:
I wish I’d invested in Scotch Eggs at the start of this furore. Who’d have known?!
mad-moon
16-12-2020, 08:13
I'm a bit bemused as to what happened last night...My pal went into South Tyneside District Hospital., to have surgery as a day patient. He had a Covid test which came back negative of course, before his operatin.
This is the bit that surprised me... I went to pick him up, walking into the hospital, then into the lift to the first floor, then into the day surgery unit. I had a mask on, but not a single person stopped me, not even to take my temperature, which I thought was the norm these days. It was like I was invisible.
The hospital insisted, I had to go to the ward to pick him up. The hospital professes to be Covid free...
doesnt fill you with confidence does it:rolleyes:
How about a solid dose of reality?
Over run hospitals? Or over run "provisions" ? Ya.... (https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/number-of-covid-19-hospitalizations-state-by-state-july-15.html?origin=CEOE&utm_source=CEOE&utm_medium=email&utm_content=newsletter&oly_enc_id=7121B6660590G7R)
Filterlab
16-12-2020, 18:51
So really quite quiet then?
Mikeandvan
16-12-2020, 19:22
I live in a so called city and I can't even get a coffee after 5pm, fucking lock down bullshit.
So really quite quiet then?
Thing is they should have more patients... If they don't see an increase that's obvious by the end of January than it's purely lack of ability to provide necessary health care. It's our winter and it's the busiest time of the year. So ironically the low bed count isn't necessarily a positive, but it tells a much more true story. Now some of those places had influxes that have passed... they pass.
This should be required reading/watching for lockdown moaners:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55332206
Poor chap, and good luck to him. I hope he can make as much of a recovery as possible and enjoy more time with his loved ones.
Marco.
F*** Me. :eek:
Pompey is moving into Tier 3! Starts Saturday midnight!
If Britain's tightest town is considered a basket case, the rest of you mothers are definitely DOOMED. :lol:
Just sayin.
I won't miss the Pubs as it goes. Prefer drinkin' at Home and Classic FM and the Footie. :)
mad-moon
17-12-2020, 15:18
Poor chap, and good luck to him. I hope he can make as much of a recovery as possible and enjoy more time with his loved ones.
Marco.
+1..a miracle indeed...apt, at this time of year...best wishes to this family...Big Al and Anne...
I think most of us have recently relearned the old WW2 graveyard joke....
If that Bomb has your name on it, there's nothing you can do. :lol:
Anyway, a terrifically unexpected upturn this week. Thank you Virus.
Tesco are giving a 20% discount on Booze and Fags this week. About time. We have been ripped off for years. :)
I think most of us have recently relearned the old WW2 graveyard joke....
If that Bomb has your name on it, there's nothing you can do. :lol:
It's not the one bomb with your name on it you really have to worry about, it's all the other bombs marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'
https://www.facebook.com/536403937/posts/10159229307113938/?sfnsn=scwspwa
might ned to click on it quickly to get video to run
anthonyTD
17-12-2020, 18:42
Classic!
https://www.facebook.com/536403937/posts/10159229307113938/?sfnsn=scwspwa
might ned to click on it quickly to get video to run
It's not the one bomb with your name on it you really have to worry about, it's all the other bombs marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'
:thumbsup:
walpurgis
18-12-2020, 09:23
The increase in reported infections has reached crazy levels. 35,000 daily? It's out of control! Most just don't seem to care and would carry on regardlessly with whatever they do daily as normal, that complacency is not going to end this.
The fear factor has left many and as they rarely see anyone ith it or know someone who dies of it, and they are not older so its f**k it. trouble with this is as long as you have aeroplanes bringing people from abroad in so quickly even if you get rid of it, it will just reappear, as its done in korea and australia.
in old days it was easier as folk travelled by boat. took longer and gave time for diseases to show up.
walpurgis
18-12-2020, 09:34
The fear factor has left many and as they rarely see anyone ith it or know someone who dies of it, and they are not older so its f**k it.
Exactly.
anthonyTD
18-12-2020, 12:11
Considering how bad this suposedly was in the begining, all transportation carrying people in and out of the UK should have stopped, and we should have gone into a lockdown for at least a month, with only essential shopping allowed, but what do i know. :rolleyes:
I have speculated alternative theories like many folk since this started, however; i never denied that something was making people ill, indeed i too suffered very badly from around october last year with something i had never experienced before, incredibly tired, severe chest problems, coughing continualy, to the extent that i was actualy passing out, antibotics didnt work, and the only way i could sleep was laying face down, even now i still have some of the symptoms that seem to just linger under the surface ready to re-appear at will, However, i am still not convinced that we are being told the whole truth about what exactly this is, i live in hope that something or someone will come out eventualy and the pieces of this mad jigsaw will at last make some sense! :doh:
The fear factor has left many and as they rarely see anyone ith it or know someone who dies of it, and they are not older so its f**k it. trouble with this is as long as you have aeroplanes bringing people from abroad in so quickly even if you get rid of it, it will just reappear, as its done in korea and australia.
in old days it was easier as folk travelled by boat. took longer and gave time for diseases to show up.
wales seems to be very high again, although mostly s wales... my locale is now lower than scottish average and within than my town is much lower than county; dunno how long it will continue tho.
Stryder5
18-12-2020, 12:32
https://triggernometry.locals.com/post/287321/youtube-deleted-our-interview-with-dr-sucharit-bhakdi-here-it-is-again?fbclid=IwAR3GOFsor0941ujwb7dO_LDpPNYDQnAsetF 2isTibykEzu__POn8E1VUT7M
anthonyTD
18-12-2020, 13:08
Good find Gary,
The guy is saying what many others from the medical fraternity have been saying from the start, again this video just reinforces the rediculousness of the PCR Test.
https://triggernometry.locals.com/post/287321/youtube-deleted-our-interview-with-dr-sucharit-bhakdi-here-it-is-again?fbclid=IwAR3GOFsor0941ujwb7dO_LDpPNYDQnAsetF 2isTibykEzu__POn8E1VUT7M
Pierre De Grenoble
18-12-2020, 18:21
The increase in reported infections has reached crazy levels. 35,000 daily? It's out of control! Most just don't seem to care and would carry on regardlessly with whatever they do daily as normal, that complacency is not going to end this.
My grand daughter (17) met 2 of her friends in town last week. and came back with Covid. so 5 people in my eldest daughters house are now tested positive. Interaction between my other daughter's household means another 5 people are now tested positive. I have obvious limited contact but still got myself swabbed and tested negative.
It really is that rapid and that contagious.
Good find Gary,
The guy is saying what many others from the medical fraternity have been saying from the start, again this video just reinforces the rediculousness of the PCR Test.
I work in health care... been saying it for awhile. The tests, ALL OF THEM, are a joke.
When you're likely to be jabbed, click here: https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
18-12-2020, 20:06
Between 24th April and 12th May for me.
twenty odd million in front of me in the queue - no change there then :lol:
Stryder5
18-12-2020, 21:50
When you're likely to be jabbed, click here: https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk
Marco.
Never works for me!
Gary
Stryder5
18-12-2020, 21:59
Why?
Marco.
Me why?
Gary
Yes, why does it never work?
Marco.
mad-moon
18-12-2020, 23:24
End of January/early February according to the calculator...for me...6-10k infront of me..depending on uptake...
Stryder5
19-12-2020, 09:27
Yes, why does it never work?
Marco.
Me not being clear......Never will have the vaccine, so, never works for me!
Gary
anthonyTD
19-12-2020, 10:42
Well, i see them ramping up the figures in south wales paticularly, why ? because the welsh valley's in paticular have always been know for a considerably high rate of respiratory problems, especialy this time of the year, i know this only too well from my own condition, so its a good place to test folk if you want to get a paticular message out, as they are more likely to find remnants of dead cell material from previous infections ie; cold, Flu etc in many folk here, and dial that in with the enormous amount of tests they are suposedly conducting, then it doesent take a genius to understand that giving the inacuracies of the PCR testing system, you are going to get a high positive test rate.
REMEMBER; THE PCR TEST DOES NOT TEST FOR THE VIRUS ITSELF, just remnants of dead cell's ejected by the body after an infection, which, and i cannot stress this point anymore, may be left behind from a previous infection!!!
Getting a positive test result does not automaticaly prove that you are infected, or are a danger to anyone else around you, many experts are saying, and have been saying this for many months, but its like they are banging their heads against the wall, THE PCR TEST WAS NOT DESIGNED TO BE USED OUTSIDE OF A CONTROLED ENVIROMENT, SUCH AS A LABORATORY!!!
People, please,please look at the info out there, Gary put up a very good link yesterday, if you remotely care about what's going on, or more to the point are contemplating on whether you should accept what ever it is they want to stick into you, then you owe it to yourself to at least listen to what many of these very competent people are saying as an alternative to the mainstream indoctrination.
Rant over.:doh:
Well, i see them ramping up the figures in south wales paticularly, why ? because the welsh valley's in paticular have always been know for a considerably high rate of respiratory problems, especialy this time of the year, i know this only too well from my own condition, so its a good place to test folk if you want to get a paticular message out, as they are more likely to find remnants of dead cell material from previous infections ie; cold, Flu etc in many folk here, and dial that in with the enormous amount of tests they are suposedly conducting, then it doesent take a genius to understand that giving the inacuracies of the PCR testing system, you are going to get a high positive test rate.
REMEMBER; THE PCR TEST DOES NOT TEST FOR THE VIRUS ITSELF, just remnants of dead cell's ejected by the body after an infection, which, and i cannot stress this point anymore, may be left behind from a previous infection!!!
Getting a positive test result does not automaticaly prove that you are infected, or are a danger to anyone else around you, many experts are saying, and have been saying this for many months, but its like they are banging their heads against the wall, THE PCR TEST WAS NOT DESIGNED TO BE USED OUTSIDE OF A CONTROLED ENVIROMENT, SUCH AS A LABORATORY!!!
People, please,please look at the info out there, Gary put up a very good link yesterday, if you remotely care about what's going on, or more to the point are contemplating on whether you should accept what ever it is they want to stick into you, then you need to at least listen to what many of these very competent people are saying as an alternative to the mainstream indoctrination.
Rant over.:doh:
I've not seen anyone claim that a PCR test is infallible. If you test enough people the law of big numbers means you will still get reliable data as to infection rates.
Stryder5
19-12-2020, 14:34
I've not seen anyone claim that a PCR test is infallible. If you test enough people the law of big numbers means you will still get reliable data as to infection rates.
Not true, conditional probability.
Gary
Not true, conditional probability.
Gary
sorry I don't see how that is relevant?
london and se.. xmas is cancelled. it had to happen alas. not sure if everyone will abide by it tho.
Stryder5
19-12-2020, 17:19
sorry I don't see how that is relevant?
There isn’t a law of big numbers, the PCR test is fallible, the more you test the higher the conditional probability that false positives will predominate.
If you know your statistical analysis the issue is not in doubt.
PCR test fallible.
https://triggernometry.locals.com/post/287321/youtube-deleted-our-interview-with-dr-sucharit-bhakdi-here-it-is-again?fbclid=IwAR3GOFsor0941ujwb7dO_LDpPNYDQnAsetF 2isTibykEzu__POn8E1VUT7M
Gary
walpurgis
19-12-2020, 19:07
We're in tier 4 here from tonight. Inevitable really.
london and se.. xmas is cancelled
Lol - I guess that depends on what you consider as "Christmas", and how you celebrate it;)
If you're talking about all the materialistic commercial nonsense and rampant pisshead party-goers, then maybe, but not for those who see it primarily as a religious celebration [yes churches will remain open] and a QUIET and RELAXED time [not an excuse to get off your face on booze] to spend with a FEW loved ones on Christmas Day.
In that respect, CHRISTmas, chez-moi, will be near-identical to every other year, and I'm very much looking forward to it!:cool:
And I'm sure that will also apply to hundreds of thousands of others.
Marco.
Filterlab
19-12-2020, 19:26
twenty odd million in front of me in the queue - no change there then :lol:
Welcome to the BT helpline. You are in a queue.
Welcome to the BT helpline. You are in a queue.
And my log cabin - ordered and paid for back in July :wah:
Lol - I guess that depends on what you consider as "Christmas", and how you celebrate it;)
If you're talking about all the materialistic commercial nonsense and rampant pisshead party-goers, then maybe, but not for those who see it primarily as a religious celebration [yes churches will remain open] and a QUIET and RELAXED time [not an excuse to get off your face on booze] to spend with a FEW loved ones on Christmas Day.
In that respect, CHRISTmas, chez-moi, will be near-identical to every other year, and I'm very much looking forward to it!:cool:
And I'm sure that will also apply to hundreds of thousands of others.
Marco.
Applies to me, really looking forward to Christmas with my wife and both daughters - as you say, spending a very pleasant relaxing (and indulgent :))day with my nearest and dearest (and counting my blessings).
Exactly, mate. *THAT* is what it's all about - not all the other mindless shite!:rolleyes:
We'll be attending a candlelit carol service at the local cathedral on Christmas Eve, after which my dad will be coming round to ours to enjoy some wine and nibbles, then mass in the morning on Christmas day, accompanied by my dad, after which we'll all come home and prepare the grub and decorate the table for lunch!
Starting with various homemade canapés, lovingly constructed by Del, which are always fabulous, accompanied by homemade cocktails (made by me) and some vintage Champagne, then onto the starter of a triple-cheese soufflé and rocket/herb salad, followed by a spot consommé, and onto the main event of beef Wellington, made to the same recipe as served at the Savoy, with all the trimmings, accompanied by an assortment of fine-wines, followed by Del's homemade pannacotta and raspberry fruit coulis, served with selected pudding wines.
And if anyone still has some room left, some stilton and vintage port with homemade oatcakes... Then a right good sleep and 'mong out' in front of a roaring log fire! And movies later. Bring it on:D
Marco.
I've not seen anyone claim that a PCR test is infallible.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895843/S0519_Impact_of_false_positives_and_negatives.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895843/S0519_Impact_of_false_positives_and_negatives.pdf
Yes that's what I said? No-one claims the test is infallible. But there's a difference between a test that is not infallible and a test that is useless.
Yes that's what I said? No-one claims the test is infallible. But there's a difference between a test that is not infallible and a test that is useless.
Yes - posted in support of your post.
https://youtu.be/Sb6NLNcW4AY
Marco/
https://youtu.be/c8zHIOO1oUU
Very serious news from wee bonny lassie Scottish Nicola Sturgeon. She is coming out of this with much credit.
This new variant is very worrisome.
I've not seen anyone claim that a PCR test is infallible. If you test enough people the law of big numbers means you will still get reliable data as to infection rates.
The problem is you're getting past and present infections at the same time.
Looks like we are isolated. Food might get tight now.
Well done Boris and co
I got plenty of food in the cupboard. Think I'll survive. :lol:
My 80-y-o sister alarmed me yesterday. She caught the Covid last month... :eek:
She is normally very careful, but said she needed an emergency eye-test, so went to optician.
He texted her next day to say he had tested positive for the germ.
Husband ran a mile to nearby rented accomodation since he is pretty ancient and unhealthy himself. :rolleyes:
Worst month of her life. Couldn't even lift her arms, felt so weak. Didn't eat or sleep for 10 days, was totally delirious. Local Doctor visited regularly.
Ah, well, She is OK now. Thank you God. Everybody 80-y-o getting their vaccine jabs. Old technology. Been around for years.
walpurgis
22-12-2020, 15:14
Glad to hear your sister is now OK.
hifi_dave
22-12-2020, 15:15
I got plenty of food in the cupboard. Think I'll survive. :lol:
My 80-y-o sister alarmed me yesterday. She caught the Covid last month... :eek:
She is normally very careful, but said she needed an emergency eye-test, so went to optician.
He texted her next day to say he had tested positive for the germ.
Husband ran a mile to nearby rented accomodation since he is pretty ancient and unhealthy himself. :rolleyes:
Worst month of her life. Couldn't even lift her arms, felt so weak. Didn't eat or sleep for 10 days, was totally delirious. Local Doctor visited regularly.
Ah, well, She is OK now. Thank you God. Everybody 80-y-o getting their vaccine jabs. Old technology. Been around for years.
I wish them both well.
Can't wait to get my vaccine. As an old git with no immune system, I would love to get back to something like normal. Unfortunately, I am around level 4 on the list.
not sure wher i will be... just hoping it will be in next 6/8 weeks..
and good to hear she made it
walpurgis
22-12-2020, 15:21
I expect the GP will be in touch before too long. Not in that much of a hurry, I largely avoid contact with others anyway.
Tier 4 on Boxing Day :(
Mind you cases have been rising very quickly in Babergh (my local council area), at least we are fairly well stocked with heating oil, food, drinks and bog roll.
I got a new gas cylinder for the hob today (no mains gas in our village) - spare in case old one runs out - must have been a premonition :)
Filterlab
23-12-2020, 18:48
Here too, although I’m not doing anything out and about until the 5th of January anyway. It’s my holidays! :lol:
This Covid thingumy has just gone too far, even the royal family are suffering from cutbacks now :wah:
"The two men in charge of the Queen's art collection have left and won't be replaced "for the time being" because of Covid's impact on royal finances."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55424182
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