View Full Version : The Coffeehouse.... Baristi, Barista, Bariste
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Thought I would start this as we have a few coffee freaks here..
I will open it with my latest coffee to pop through the door... Ethiopian Bifdu Gudina from Climpsons
expensive but fancied a treat.. Heirloom variety majoring in Peaches, Honey and Violets
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171101/8a3afbcf6a484a4fa994f566ca462098.jpg
I really like a quality cup of coffee but have to be careful as it's acidic nature tends to upset my delicate digestion. Nice to have a cup occasionally though.
really! perhaps you can get some out next time i come round instead of that tesco own brand shit!
really! perhaps you can get some out next time i come round instead of that tesco own brand shit!
Well bring that Decca over and I might let you make yourself a cup ha!
my tank coffee order arrived.. still never got a call or an email from them. one of them was this
http://www.tankcoffee.com/shop/home/kickstart-gourmet-espresso-400g/
Part of the packaging of my coffee machine were two bags of coffee from cafe Pfaff, Paris (where I bought the machine from).
One is a bag of Mandolino, Italian mix house blend coffee.
The other is a bag of what has been voted as the "Best Expresso - France 2017".
I look forward to trying them both!
This morning I felt confident with my new toy that a cappuccino would be easy.
How wrong could I be.
https://flic.kr/p/216w2xM
21787
I was really not prepared for the steam power it develops and the lack of time to work the milk.
Never works first time Kevin. Use plenty milk and use less pressure if u can adjust
I know I just need more practice, but it was a bit of a shock.
I don’t think I had enough milk, and I am not sure the jug is big enough.
It tasted really good though!
Try water and soap. Lol
Here's the info and video
my first of the Kickstart Gourmet Espresso ...Wow.. very nice
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171103/e2e2994846f4ec3315bec0ea600e761b.jpg
Worth buying some of this
I really like a quality cup of coffee but have to be careful as it's acidic nature tends to upset my delicate digestion. Nice to have a cup occasionally though.
Yes, I occassionally suffer from IBS, which in turn causes IBS (Irritable Bladder Syndrome) Went to doc as I thought I might have a bladder infection (constant weeing) the doc has advised me to stay off caffeine for the time being. The one thing I love is a morning coffee using my Aeropress....Grrrrrr.
Yes, I occassionally suffer from IBS, which in turn causes IBS (Irritable Bladder Syndrome) Went to doc as I thought I might have a bladder infection (constant weeing) the doc has advised me to stay off caffeine for the time being. The one thing I love is a morning coffee using my Aeropress....Grrrrrr.
got a bit of both of those too.. but I still try and have 1 a day. some milk helps I find.. not sure if decaffinated would help?
walpurgis
03-11-2017, 09:47
Is Itchy Bollock Syndrome related, 'cos I get that.
even in the coffee section;)
:D
walpurgis
03-11-2017, 09:56
Nothing is sacred! :eek:
Is Itchy Bollock Syndrome related, 'cos I get that.
Use your left hand, they say it feels like someone else.
Half a cup of milk microwaved + two Nespresso capsules + half a spoon of instant to garnish + a bit of sugar.
My mid morning treat, better than Costa and (slightly) cheaper. Philistine, or what?
My 'go to' coffee is still Tesco Finest whole bean Columbian Supremo. I occasionally try coffee from Has Bean (https://www.hasbean.co.uk/), which is normally very good and promptly delivered.
It was Alex from here many moons ago who put me onto Columbian Supremo. I regularly try other roasts, but this really suits my tastes and it's only £2.99 for 227g, so for me it's hard to beat. Has to be whole bean though.
https://img.tesco.com/Groceries/pi/921/5053947786921/IDShot_225x225.jpg
Not seen that bag at my Tesco
Morning coffee (still on the Illy beans) and an attempt at a coffee bean latte art.
21822
I am getting used to the steam power now.
Getting there.. Always takes time to master new machines of great power. :)
Not seen that bag at my TescoYou should be able to find it anywhere Grant, apart from Tesco Express which often don't stock it. But every normal store should have it?
Certainly I've never struggled to find it, unless you've been in a store straight after me as I sometimes clear the display [emoji6]
They used to have 2 x bags for £5.00 offers, then I did clear the shelves, but not seen that in awhile. It scored very well in a Which report a few years ago.
Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk
This one is called Espresso Africa and again from Tank Coffee... looks nice
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171104/0a5f289e725e7377c263a72814247711.jpg
very fruity and clean... I like
I'd never heard of Tank Coffee till this thread, I'm going to give them a go :)
I'd never heard of Tank Coffee till this thread, I'm going to give them a go :)
Tim, They are good and fairly quick, but with me anyway I got no email confirmation which annoyed me a bit.. I mean surely that can be the easiest of things to set up. Anyway their prices are good for great coffee and big boxes too. 400 gm gold packets inside big cardboard boxes. Very impressed
Do you mean no confirmation of your order - or any sort of invoice?
Do you mean no confirmation of your order - or any sort of invoice?
I paid via paypal so got conformation of transaction from them but not from Tank. no idea why.. Climpson send me emails. Still, not complaining too much as its good value and very nice. At least with paypal, if anything goes wrong you get your money back
Interesting and unusual in these days of automated technology.
I've been poking around the site and see they only roast African beans, I'm more a South American arabica lover, Colombia, Peru and Brazil especially. Funnily enough I'm seeing one of my favourite artists tonight (Emily Barker) and she's a coffee lover, so much so she's commissioned a roast for her UK tour. Her latest album is called 'Sweet Kind of Blue' and she has bags of 'Sweet Kind of Brew' for sale from Monsoon Estates, pretty neat. She's done it before on her Dear River tour and sold out after 3 shows!
Em's a Yirgacheffe girl, so you'd get on. A cool idea, buying freshly roasted beans at a gig - if you like good coffee that is ;)
https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ftmh6tee-nAvRI-N_kIZdCRZv87c0iPkjDVSTiFH1oV6W83FIdJKRz-FIqZQlLqAmfVIcBD8f2_1VDJVTX22sHN0_xeeAbslMilhxhW6Q ceCxXvt7aPtm-_Cp5XCc8E-M9r7BIXrYn1boLZCxERmO3dPaemNWhBz0SrTKGU=s0-d-e1-ft#https://gallery.mailchimp.com/4ba839ae377b69d0f2fe5d273/images/85a1df25-bbab-4a6c-8ec7-0c1435d7d2b4.png
Anything in particular you would recommend from Tank Coffee?
Yeah, I'm an Africa lover.. love their beans lightly roasted. They do a taster pack of 4* 80gm. Im impressed so far with africa espresso and the kickstart espresso. bot can be used in other ways well too. Try climpsons coffee in london they are good although expensive. do some nice S American ones
https://climpsonandsons.com/collections/coffee
the fields is my favorite
.....and try these:
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-Offers.htm?articleId=7567
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-Offers.htm?articleId=7786
...just to see what they're like, in terms of 'bean per buck'! :eyebrows:
Lidl's electrical stuff is German made, so usually belies its price tag, punching well above its weight, so let's see what this combo is made of... Hopefully I can bag them tomorrow before the shops sell out...!
Full report to come on their efficacy, if I can nab them, so stay tuned :cool:
Marco.
the one Snapper got was from Lidl
Exactly, mate. For less than £100 in total, it's got to be tried. If it's shite, it's shite... But I suspect it'll be good enough for me to practice on and learn, as a complete coffee-making novice, until I get something more 'serious' to play with!
Anyway, I'll let you know how I get on :)
Marco.
I absolutely warn you the grinder will be a piece of junk. You cannot grind beans for espresso automatically without a decent burr grinder.
Better to buy pre ground than use that.
Lol... You're probably right, but for a tenner [hardly the price of a decent bottle of wine] it'd be rude not to try, just for a play! :D
If the grinder truly is shit (likely), then I'll simply get one of these: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-mignon-instantaneo-grinder-auto-manual-matt-black.html
...which will be halfway to where I ultimately want to be, along with this: https://www.ranciliogroup.com/1-Rancilio-Homeline--Silvia
However, if the Lidl espresso machine is half-decent (which is all I'm expecting from it), then I'll use it to play with, along with the Eureka-Mignon, until I fancy upgrading to a Rancilio :)
Marco.
Lol... You're probably right, but for a tenner [hardly the price of a decent bottle of wine] it'd be rude not to try, just for a play! :D
If the grinder truly is shit (likely), then I'll simply get one of these: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-mignon-instantaneo-grinder-auto-manual-matt-black.html
...which will be halfway to where I ultimately want to be, along with this: https://www.ranciliogroup.com/1-Rancilio-Homeline--Silvia
However, if the Lidl espresso machine is half-decent (which is all I'm expecting from it), then I'll use it to play with, along with the Eureka-Mignon, until I fancy upgrading to a Rancilio :)
Marco.
struggle a bit with my hand grinder now due to arthritis in hands but it does grind superbly to any grade. I had to sell a few things to buy it but its rated as the best hand grinder in world
Yeah, I know it's really good, mate. Still have it on my radar but fancy an electric one, too. We'll see how it goes! :cool:
Marco.
Yeah, I know it's really good, mate. Still have it on my radar but fancy an electric one, too. We'll see how it goes! :cool:
Marco.
Electric is a lot less work mate. quicker too, but the manual gives u a bit more connection. Ive a lot of nice beans at moment so having fun.
Lol... You're probably right, but for a tenner [hardly the price of a decent bottle of wine] it'd be rude not to try, just for a play! :D
If the grinder truly is shit (likely), then I'll simply get one of these: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-mignon-instantaneo-grinder-auto-manual-matt-black.html
...which will be halfway to where I ultimately want to be, along with this: https://www.ranciliogroup.com/1-Rancilio-Homeline--Silvia
However, if the Lidl espresso machine is half-decent (which is all I'm expecting from it), then I'll use it to play with, along with the Eureka-Mignon, until I fancy upgrading to a Rancilio :)
Marco.Just be sure to buy some pre ground coffee to realise just what a hopeless effort the grinder really is.
The grind is an essential part of good coffee along with water temperature, but these elements are often overlooked, especially the grind. Those blade grinders cannot produce an even grind and if they heat the beans up too much, taint the flavour. They are great for spices though, so worth a tenner for that, but not for grinding beans.
I use a Zassenhaus hand grinder, I really like the process of doing it all manually, bit like a Chinese tea ceremony and not much to go wrong or clean up. Less counter space too.
Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk
lidl do a preground espresso grind I think and Tesco does too. Nowt wrong with them, but obviously cannot compare to fresh unless you get lucky and they have just been done. Most of the big coffee internet sellers will grind it for you to the level you want as well.
Electric is a lot less work mate. quicker too, but the manual gives u a bit more connection. Ive a lot of nice beans at moment so having fun.
No doubt you are, and the results you're producing (from the pics taken of the coffee you've made) speak for themselves! :)
The thing for me is that I'm a total and utter novice with coffee beans and machines (I know next to hee-haw), so this is possibly the beginning of a new journey for me, and why I'm reluctant to spend significant sums of money on something I may or may not get into seriously.
That's why I think it makes sense to have play first with something basic, just to see if I'm into it or not. After all, if it was hi-fi, you wouldn't recommend a newbie to go out and buy a Goldmund turntable, Kondo amps and a pair of Tannoy Westminsters, for their first system! ;)
Marco.
No doubt you are, and the results you're producing (from the pics taken of the coffee you've made) speak for themselves! :)
The thing for me is that I'm a total and utter novice with coffee beans and machines (I know next to hee-haw), so this is possibly the beginning of a new journey for me, and why I'm reluctant to spend significant sums of money on something I may or may not get into seriously.
That's why I think it makes sense to have play first with something basic, just to see if I'm into it or not. After all, if it was hi-fi, you wouldn't recommend a newbie to go out and buy a Goldmund turntable, Kondo amps and a pair of Tannoy Westminsters, for their first system! ;)
Marco.
Agree totally. My machine nowt fancy. but with care you can just about get a decent drink out of it. Getting old tho now. Another tip is to make sure the head and the portafilter edges are clean from coffee grinds. even 1 bit can damage the seal. Flush the head before each pour and rub your finger over the portafilter end and you will feel if there is anything there.
Just be sure to buy some pre ground coffee to realise just what a hopeless effort the grinder really is.
Yup, that was already part of the plan :)
Marco.
The grind is an essential part of good coffee along with water temperature, but these elements are often overlooked, especially the grind. Those blade grinders cannot produce an even grind and if they heat the beans up too much, taint the flavour.
I hear ya, dude. If it's no use for coffee beans, then it'll do for something else :)
Marco.
Got the necessary items from Lidl, including the milk frother: https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-Offers.htm?articleId=7564
Will have a play later and report back! :cool:
Marco.
Also picked up these coffee beans, while I was there, so these are what I'll be trying first:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/923/8eumnD.jpg
Marco.
You mean the coffee? If so, yes. All three types (as shown in picture). Have you tried those beans before - if so what are they like? :)
I don't like anything too bitter tasting.
Marco.
Marco's going for it big style!
Right, gotta get me grinder out, it's coffee time for me :)
You mean the coffee? If so, yes. All three types (as shown in picture). Have you tried those beans before - if so what are they like? :)
I don't like anything too bitter tasting.
Marco.
No, they were in last year but were all gone by time I got through to the big one in Livingston. Should be nice enough Really dark roasted can be a bit more bitter but African beans are usually decent
the chopper type blade in the grinder can also make the coffee a little bitter due to burning it as it chops it, but trial and error is the best way. you could send some to Kevin for him to grind for you
No, they were in last year but were all gone by time I got through to the big one in Livingston. Should be nice enough Really dark roasted can be a bit more bitter but African beans are usually decent
Cool. I also got some of these as an alternative, which I suspect may be smoother tasting:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/924/kQJu4W.jpg
Marco.
Marco's going for it big style!
Right, gotta get me grinder out, it's coffee time for me :)
Yeah, should be fun later! Off out now for Sunday lunch at a nice country pub. Here: http://www.cobcheshire.com/gallery/image-gallery/?g=bar&t=Bar-and-Restaurant
Laters, amigos :cool:
Marco.
Cool. I also got some of these as an alternative, which I suspect may be smoother tasting:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/924/kQJu4W.jpg
Marco.
not tried the italian... i like this.. very smooth
https://www.ocado.com/productImages/494/49411011_0_640x640.jpg?identifier=5edce9a7ed6b72be 270387fb9bc7455e
Yeah, should be fun later! Off out now for Sunday lunch at a nice country pub. Here: http://www.cobcheshire.com/gallery/image-gallery/?g=bar&t=Bar-and-Restaurant
Laters, amigos :cool:
Marco.
sensible drink hrs unlike this country who's hrs are still in the dark ages.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171105/f16584b36da9a39d43a8ba27c18bcc4c.jpg
Taylors and a bit of african
.....and try these:
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-Offers.htm?articleId=7567
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Non-Food-Offers.htm?articleId=7786
...just to see what they're like, in terms of 'bean per buck'! :eyebrows:
Lidl's electrical stuff is German made, so usually belies its price tag, punching well above its weight, so let's see what this combo is made of... Hopefully I can bag them tomorrow before the shops sell out...!
Full report to come on their efficacy, if I can nab them, so stay tuned :cool:
Marco.
That grinder will be like playing an LP with a rusty nail....
It will get the job done, but the results will be less than good.
Don't cheap out on the grinder. It's more important than the machine at budget levels.
Yum, yum... Looks great, Granty! :thumbsup:
Yeah, the Cock o'Barton's fab. Only 15 mins away from our house, too! :cool:
Marco.
That grinder will be like playing an LP with a rusty nail....
It will get the job done, but the results will be less than good.
Don't cheap out on the grinder. It's more important than the machine at budget levels.
Don't intend to Kev. But like I said, for a tenner, it's got to be tried! Full 'reportage' on all the Lidl bits later :cool:
Marco.
I have tried a blade grinder in the past. The results are not good for espresso.
You are better off with a decent hand grinder if not drinking much coffee.
Just bear in mind that pre-ground coffee really starts losing the flavours after about 20 minutes.
All this coffee talk has made me thirsty, so I have just turned my machine on!
It is a pain having to wait 20 to 30 minutes for it to warm up, but the result is worth it.
I have tried a blade grinder in the past. The results are not good for espresso.
You are better off with a decent hand grinder if not drinking much coffee.
Lol - can I be allowed to try the bloody thing first and form my own opinion on it, without everyone telling me what's going to happen?! :ner:;)
Marco.
dont use it man :rfl:
......
it'll blow man
. . . can I be allowed to try the bloody thing first and form my own opinion on it
Nope, this is a male dominated forum and we all know best, you're havin' a laugh expecting that old bean.
:rfl:
Lol - can I be allowed to try the bloody thing first and form my own opinion on it, without everyone telling me what's going to happen?! :ner:;)
Marco.
:no:
:nono:
:lol:
:ner: :ner: :ner:
Smash away at your beans whenever you feel like it... :eek:
Morning coffee (still on the Illy beans) and an attempt at a coffee bean latte art.
21822
I am getting used to the steam power now.
I have just found my problem.
I was putting the tip too far in, too early. Just below the surface and the milk (even though it is semi-skimmed) froths nicely.
I just need to stop pouring the last bit of froth in now and lattes are officially nailed!
Surfing the tip Kevin.. vertex the hell out of it:D
I am surprised at the speed/power when frothing milk for a latte. It is incredible!
My previous machine had an "auto frothing" wand, so this really has been a learning curve.
I am surprised at the speed/power when frothing milk for a latte. It is incredible!
My previous machine had an "auto frothing" wand, so this really has been a learning curve.
your old one was pretty good machine as well.
yes its a different ballgame with a pro machine but great once you get the touch..
The old machine served me well. I can't complain as I never had a bad word said about the coffee I served from it.
The new machine is just a beast though.
One thing I have noticed is that coffee intake has at least tripled! I have got through 500g of coffee in 4 days.
Even with dialling the grinder in, that is a lot of coffee.
I have got through 500g of coffee in 4 days.
Holy smokes that's a lot :stalks:
I use 18g per cup and limit myself to two per day, sometimes just one. Going on that amount that would be around 6/7 coffee's a day. You must be wired?
The old machine served me well. I can't complain as I never had a bad word said about the coffee I served from it.
The new machine is just a beast though.
One thing I have noticed is that coffee intake has at least tripled! I have got through 500g of coffee in 4 days.
Even with dialling the grinder in, that is a lot of coffee.
:eek: thhats a lot of coffee. You will be high:D Yup I am needing a new one myself as this one is nearing its end but hope to screw a few more pints first. If I give up vinyl I might get a new one.
Don't intend to Kev. But like I said, for a tenner, it's got to be tried! Full 'reportage' on all the Lidl bits later :cool:
Marco.
Have you had a chance to play yet?
My coffee journey so far:
I used a French Press and ground coffee.
I than moved to a Bialetti Moka coffee maker.
My first espresso coffee machine was a Delonghi Bar 15, which set me back about £20 as it was a refurbished model.
It looked like this:
http://images.esellerpro.com/2235/I/415/89/DeLonghi-ec156b-3.jpg
I partnered that with a blade grinder. It was ok, but then I upgraded to an Isomac Granmacinino with conical burr grinders. Much better tasting coffee.
That has done me proud for well over 10 years and is still going strong. (I will be advertising the grinder and coffee machine locally to fund more coffee purchases!)
Than as posted before, Mrs H bought me a Magimix L'Expresso automatique. I kept the Isomac grinder.
Then my recent purchases showed me just how much the previous machines had made me think making coffee was easy.
It is not difficult to make coffee with the new set up, but it is like a high quality stereo - it shown up the imperfections, but when you get everything right, the results are stunning.
Here's a bad tip.
Drink about 4 pints of beer or a bottle of wine.
Then start making a series of seriously strong espressos. Do about 3. The resulting 'high' is interesting. It is like the alcohol sensitises you to the effect of the caffeine.
Almost undoubtedly not good for you. But fun nonetheless.
Pretty much Buckfast. It's alcohol and caffeine. My mate is addicted. He is up all night and active too. It's s local drink where he comes from
Wow never heard of it just looked it up. A 750ml green bottle contains the same amount of caffeine as 6 coffees.
That stuff isn't messing around.
Tastes ghastly IMO but lots seem to like it. The monks have a lot to answer to lol
My thoughts are quality wine followed by quality coffee will be a lot nicer.
Holy smokes that's a lot :stalks:
I use 18g per cup and limit myself to two per day, sometimes just one. Going on that amount that would be around 6/7 coffee's a day. You must be wired?
Dialling in the grinder is quite wasteful.
You don’t drink all of the coffee, but have a taste of the extraction time etc. is roughly correct.
I limit myself to three espressos a day and a couple of milk based coffees when at home.
I tend to drink more at work.
Lol - can I be allowed to try the bloody thing first and form my own opinion on it, without everyone telling me what's going to happen?! :ner:;)
Marco.
Come on Marco, spill the beans... :eyebrows:
Lol.... Alas, the coffee machine was not a success.
Despite pissing around with it all night, it simply wouldn't pour coffee into cups with any kind of pressure, but rather simply 'dripping' it in, and consequently not forming any kind of crema. It tasted ok, as black coffee (with a slight froth), but espresso it wasn't! :nono:
It could be that the unit I've got is faulty, so it's going back today for a refund. I'm not willing to try another. However, the milk frother is fantastic, and for £20 highly recommended. It's quick, very effective and well made for the money, so a no-brainer choice as a budget frother.
The grinder also 'works' perfectly well, in terms successfully grinding beans to a very fine powder (or otherwise), but at this stage I'm unable to ascertain its impact on flavour. I'll do that when I get a proper coffee machine, such as the Rancilio, or perhaps a Miele one Del's been looking at, and grinder. Then I'll compare the cheapo grinder from Lidl against the latter and report back.
As ever, it's a case of nothing ventured, nothing gained! :cool:
Marco.
maybe pressing the coffee too hard in the portafilter. also makes this worse the finer the coffee is ground. I can happen with mine too so you have to learn just how much pressure to use. You shouldnt have this issue with a Rancillo
It could also be that you are “grinding” the beans too fine.
Try it a bit coarser. That is the issue with blad grinder - getting the consistency of the grind.
Yup thats what i meant...too fine and too hard tamp and it sometimes comes out the sides or trickles.
Just made one with my attempt of the rolling stones tongue. Lol
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/702325ca2a376992288d3b786a3e89af.jpg
Didnt work tho lol
Points noted, chaps, which I'll bear in mind in future. However, I'm unwilling to mess around with it any more, so the machine's been cleaned, packed up and ready to go back.
Marco.
Ever thought about an Aeropress Marco?
It won't produce crema, but it does make very good coffee consistently and easily, with minimal clean up afterwards. I only drink black Americano, so it's perfect for that. If you have a frother and prefer milk in your coffee, then it's simple and inexpensive.
Great for travel too.
Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk
Noted, Tim, but I like proper espresso, with a nice creamy, dense crema. Without the latter, for me, it's just black coffee.
Marco.
21853
Like this (wonky) picture?
Possibly... Hard to see it properly, though!
Marco.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171106/02bd06be97e187c3b91ee2d7f97c1f21.jpg
Would need to see how it looks from inside the glass, not the side. The pic you posted earlier (even though it was a milky coffee), showing that lovely thick, 'yellowy brown' crema around the sides of the cup, is how I like it to look.
Like this:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/922/IeiJIe.jpg
If I'm not drinking through that crema, when having an espresso (or cappuccino), and it sticking to the sides of the cup making rings around the sides, as it's being drunk, like the head on pint of beer does on the accompanying glass, then I won't really enjoy it.
And the denser and thicker, more yellowy brown the crema, the better! :)
Marco.
Would need to see how it looks from inside the glass, not the side. The pic you posted earlier (even though it was a milky coffee), showing that lovely thick, 'yellowy brown' crema around the sides of the cup, is how I like it to look.
Like this:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/922/IeiJIe.jpg
If I'm not drinking through that crema, when having an espresso (or cappuccino), and it sticking to the sides of the cup making rings around the sides, as it being drunk, like the head on pint of beer does on the accompanying glass, then I won't really enjoy it.
And the denser and thicker, more yellowy brown the crema, the better! :)
Marco.
thats the colour i go for. that pic above was kevins. i rarely just pull a single. I dont do a normal latte either. mine is about a double espresso left to run a bit longer then just a smaller amount of micro foam and milk
I’ll take a picture on the next shot I pull.
From what you are telling me, you really do need to invest in a decent grinder.
If you don’t, then you can forget the thick velvety crema.
Noted, Tim, but I like proper espresso, with a nice creamy, dense crema. Without the latter, for me, it's just black coffee.
Marco.You are going to need to splash some cash then old bean ;)
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The right grinder and right coffee is always the most important bit. without that the best machine in world will produce inferior stuff. A top manual will probably do best job but is only of use if your fit and dont use a lot of beans. otherwise a nice quality burr electric is best but takes up a bit more room and will be more expensive
I’ll take a picture on the next shot I pull.
From what you are telling me, you really do need to invest in a decent grinder.
If you don’t, then you can forget the thick velvety crema.
I fully intend to, Kev. And it will be purchased along with a decent coffee machine. However, I'll also be retaining the cheapo grinder, from Lidl, for comparison purposes later :)
Marco.
You are going to need to splash some cash then old bean ;)
That was never really in much doubt :cool:
Marco.
There are usually good second hand commercial grinders going cheap, but they have disadvantages.
They are usually big, and they can need work cleaning up etc.
Your best bet is to go to a specialist retailer and see what flicks your switch. I have read that the latest version of the Silvia has a couple of bugs.
Would need to see how it looks from inside the glass, not the side. The pic you posted earlier (even though it was a milky coffee), showing that lovely thick, 'yellowy brown' crema around the sides of the cup, is how I like it to look.
Like this:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/922/IeiJIe.jpg
If I'm not drinking through that crema, when having an espresso (or cappuccino), and it sticking to the sides of the cup making rings around the sides, as it's being drunk, like the head on pint of beer does on the accompanying glass, then I won't really enjoy it.
And the denser and thicker, more yellowy brown the crema, the better! :)
Marco.
Here is a shot pulled from the single basket (which is apparently more difficult to use due to the shape and the way it extracts etc.).
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4460/24367068548_34e49a8ec4_z_d.jpg
And as you can see from the photo below, the crema sticks to the side when you swirl it around a bit.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4462/38187885452_43917bffee_z_d.jpg
And here is the shot of the "Guinness" in better quality to give you an idea about the thickness etc.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4517/38086170072_3215b2168d_b_d.jpg
Looks absolutely fab, Kevin - just how I like it (and how a good espresso should be)! :thumbsup:
Marco.
Well, Marco, glad to see that POS is out of the way so soon!
You have had a lot of good advice, TBH. When you read back on this thread when you are wiser you will realise it.:eyebrows:;)
Unfortunately you have to spend some money or get out of the game. Tis just life when it comes to this stuff. And just like hi-fi, you won't ever be 100% satisfied even when you have spent a lot.
julesd68
07-11-2017, 14:50
Don't you just hate it when your coffee supply runs out and you forgot to buy extra??
And to top it all the local shop had run out ... So I'm on the tea. :(
Yes, which is why I currently have 3kg in stock. :cool:
I had a kg of coffee that I opened but if was bitter so must have passed its best as its normally good.. flung it and had none... ordered more from 2 sources and then went to tesco for emergency supply of Taylors to see me bye. Taylors light roasted everyday is very good.
Illy coffee beans have a long shelf life due to the way they are packed, which helps.
I have two bags of coffee from Cafe Pfaff which I need to use first.
Illy coffee beans have a long shelf life due to the way they are packed, which helps.
I have two bags of coffee from Cafe Pfaff which I need to use first.
I never really got on with Illy for some reason. I like the tins tho:lol:
I quite like it. There actually seems to be loads of it sold it Italy as well.
Here is a double espresso to whet the appetite of Marco, and fuel his drive for a decent coffee machine.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4488/38246273931_381e1a1f57_z_d.jpg
I have just ordered an insulated travel mug so that I can take decent coffee into work.
I think Americano will be the best option for this, either that or espresso to water down to Americano when I get there.
Mrs H has complained that the coffee tastes burnt.
I think she prefers a lighter roast, so I am going to try some different beans.
Interesting... Does it taste "burnt" to you?
Marco.
No.
It tastes like espresso. I tend to drink stronger coffee than her though.
Pinkie is visiting next month, so I will get other opinions then.
Fast grinder might be strengthening it a little. Also the machine will be extracting more. Yes a milder roast. The Taylor's nice n easy level 3 roast. She will like that
I have just ordered an insulated travel mug so that I can take decent coffee into work.
I think Americano will be the best option for this, either that or espresso to water down to Americano when I get there.
These things are phenomenal and I have been drinking 90% of the coffee I make through Avex products for years and years.
Every morning it is a double shot of espresso and a load of microwaved full cream milk wacked in it to fill to the brim. There's just no point in steaming it for this application.
It then gets me through my commute to work and the first hour of the morning at work. These things ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LEAK, even when years old and have been through the dishwasher countless times.
If this product did not exist I probably wouldn't have bothered getting so deeply into coffee making. Even at home I will still make coffee with the intent of drinking it over the course of an hour or so from one of these.
Just excellent.
The one linked is not the style I use personally but it is out of stock on Amazon. Check the feedback. Essential, nay mandatory purchase.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contigo-Autoseal-Stainless-Steel-Travel/dp/B0077IERKW/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_201_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QSKDPDM0D3EYWHHZCR5S
The wife has two of the Contigo West Loop, so based on experience, I bought myself one as well!
Fast grinder might be strengthening it a little. Also the machine will be extracting more. Yes a milder roast. The Taylor's nice n easy level 3 roast. She will like that
Thanks Grant. The trouble is that Taylors is hard to get in France... ;)
I am going to investigate some Ethiopian beans next I think.
Those ones I got from tank are both light roasted and all climpsons stuff is too. African beans especially go well with mild light roast
I have ordered a mixture of 250g bags from "Cafes Lugat" to try, consisting of:
Ethiopie - Moka Nekemte - Medium roast. Apparently Floral and fruity (lemon zest) notes.
Brésil - Tres Barras - Light roast. Notes of nut, caramel and vanilla.
Colombie - Las Planadas - Medium roast. Notes of blackcurrant and caramel.
Le Mélange Bio (Ethiopie/Pérou) - Medium roast. Notes of chocolate and citrus fruits.
Le Blend Moka (Ethiopie) - Medium roast. Notes of exotic fruit and nougatine
Le Maracaju ( (Brésil, Ethiopie)) - Light roast. Red fruit and chocolate notes.
Ethiopie - Moka Yrgacheffe -Light roast. Notes of dates and Bergamot.
Costa Rica - Tarrazu - Light Roast. Almond and cacao notes.
Time will tell if any of them are any good!
The wife has two of the Contigo West Loop, so based on experience, I bought myself one as well!
Genius.
They are really good, but are more expensive over here.
They are but with one caveat. The coloured ones are coloured by coating the steel with a plastic film. This eventually comes off after multiple dishwasher sessions until it becomes a stainless steel item in its entirety. So if you aren't going to hand wash, just get the plain finish.
Thanks for the tip.
I have now switched from the Illy beans to the “Best French Espresso 2017” blend from Cafe Pfaff.
It tastes much fruitier than the Illy, so Mrs H may prefer this one.
Currently on Finca La Fany from HasBean. It had to be ordered due to the name:)
The tasting notes say it tastes like honeycomb and for once I agree with a HasBean tasting note (usually complete BS I think).
Literally there is Crunchie bar in this one. At least as made on my machine/grinder etc.
Currently on Finca La Fany from HasBean. It had to be ordered due to the name:)
The tasting notes say it tastes like honeycomb and for once I agree with a HasBean tasting note (usually complete BS I think).
Literally there is Crunchie bar in this one. At least as made on my machine/grinder etc.
oooh a crunchy fanny :eek: must get some:D is it lightly roasted or darkly
Wot finger the fanny? Quite lightly roasted as are all HasBean coffees.
Wot finger the fanny? Quite lightly roasted as are all HasBean coffees.
cheers Justin. I will grind away with it slowly:ner:
cheers Justin. I will grind away with it slowly:ner:These foreigners should just say what they mean instead of all this crypto gobbledegook:D
El Salvador BTW.
Currently on Finca La Fany from HasBean. It had to be ordered due to the name:)
The tasting notes say it tastes like honeycomb and for once I agree with a HasBean tasting note (usually complete BS I think).
I suspect there will also be 'notes' of fish... :eyebrows:
Enjoy 'Fingering her Fanny'!
Marco.
A tribute to finca la fany with my afternoon coffee
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171109/426edf08892e7b05153b2a2bf8e762aa.jpg
Forgot to comment on this:
Well, Marco, glad to see that POS is out of the way so soon!
Unfortunately you have to spend some money or get out of the game. Tis just life when it comes to this stuff. And just like hi-fi, you won't ever be 100% satisfied even when you have spent a lot.
Indeed, but the difference is I had to find out for myself that is was a PoS, rather than being told so by others, or simply snobbishly judging it on its price. And now that I have a reference point, it'll make me appreciate how much better a proper machine is! :)
Since you're making the comparison with hi-fi, I'll always go the maximum 'slurp-per-pound' route first, before shelling out big bucks, just in case I can unearth a 'giant-killer'! ;)
The same process will be applied to the £10 grinder from Lidl. If I decide that it's plenty good enough for my needs, that's what I'll be using. Or if it's obvious that it's a PoS, then, just like the coffee machine, I'll fully appreciate the benefits of a better one.
That's just how I do things! :cool:
Marco.
We are just trying to save you hassle/money.
There are a few budget machines that work really well. Don't forget that the grinder is far more important than the machine (people seem to recommend spending twice as much on a grinder as you do on the machine, but if you shop carefully you don't need to) and where the blade grinder will work and you will be able to make reasonable espresso, to extract the full flavour you really need to go with burr grinders. From what I have read, the bigger the burrs, the better.
I have also read that there may be issues with the latest Silvia, which is why I recommend that you talk to or visit a specialist like Bella Barista where you get to play with the machines, as well as sample some coffee made with the machines. You can then tell if it is worth investing more or not.
I don't know if there are any shops near Wrexham that offer the same services. In my opinion there should be.
We are just trying to save you hassle/money.
And it's noted and appreciated, but I'm the type of person who will ultimately always make up my own mind, therefore I need my own reference point from which to judge things against. It's exactly the same with hi-fi :)
There are a few budget machines that work really well. Don't forget that the grinder is far more important than the machine (people seem to recommend spending twice as much on a grinder as you do on the machine, but if you shop carefully you don't need to) and where the blade grinder will work and you will be able to make reasonable espresso, to extract the full flavour you really need to go with burr grinders. From what I have read, the bigger the burrs, the better.
Sure, and that's something I'll definitely be testing, but separately from the machine itself. Firstly, I want to get a machine that ticks these boxes:
1) Is well-made/looks good and reliable.
2) Intuitive to use and represents good value for money.
3) Has all the useful features I personally would need.
4) Is compact in size, especially in terms of height.
After which I'd familiarise myself with it for a bit, using the budget grinder. Then when I'm fully au fait with the capabilities of the machine itself and the grinder, I'll start experimenting with better grinders, in order to minimise the variables of what's causing what, in terms of the results obtained.
I'm always methodical about these things, as when I invest in something like this, it's never just on whim, and crucially, it's always with the intention of it being a long-term purchase. Plus it's more fun learning that way, rather than simply jumping in at the 'high-end', and afterwards discovering that the same results could've been achieved for a fraction of the price...
I'll only shell out BIG bucks on a top-of-the-range coffee machine if it's demonstrably proven to me that it does something better with my favourite coffee, which is important to me, than is achievable with 'lesser' machines. I apply the very same principles to hi-fi.
I have also read that there may be issues with the latest Silvia, which is why I recommend that you talk to or visit a specialist like Bella Barista where you get to play with the machines, as well as sample some coffee made with the machines. You can then tell if it is worth investing more or not.
I don't know if there are any shops near Wrexham that offer the same services. In my opinion there should be.
That's something I'll look into (wouldn't just need to be near Wrexham, as I'd be willing to travel within a 100 mile radius for such a service), and thanks for the heads-up on the Silvia :cool:
Marco.
I can relate to that. My previous machine cost €250, and did a good job.
It didn't look great, and the coffee was ok. When the new grinder arrived, I was getting better coffee.
With the new machine, I am getting the full flavour.
It is like going from a bog standard SL1200, to a fully modified deck. The basic gives you the general flavour, but misses out on the finer subtleties. The fun part is how you go from a to b....
They are but with one caveat. The coloured ones are coloured by coating the steel with a plastic film. This eventually comes off after multiple dishwasher sessions until it becomes a stainless steel item in its entirety. So if you aren't going to hand wash, just get the plain finish.
Having just read the instructions, it tells you not to put the bottom in the dishwasher.
Thanks for the tip.
I have now switched from the Illy beans to the “Best French Espresso 2017” blend from Cafe Pfaff.
It tastes much fruitier than the Illy, so Mrs H may prefer this one.
I have just finished of the beans from this one - helped by a few visitors.
The postman brought me some IMS filter baskets today, so I can play with the coffee dose. I think that the 18g I use with Illy is too much, so I have a basket that will allow me to dose at 15g.
I have switched to the Illy Guatemalan coffee beans, so more reports to follow tomorrow on these.
Having just read the instructions, it tells you not to put the bottom in the dishwasher.
To be fair it does but that's only because the frigging coloured coating comes off! For the plain stainless steel ones there's no issue with doing so.
I own five of them and handwashing is a no no.
I have also read that there may be issues with the latest Silvia, which is why I recommend that you talk to or visit a specialist like Bella Barista where you get to play with the machines, as well as sample some coffee made with the machines. You can then tell if it is worth investing more or not.
Apparently, it switches itself off after 20 minutes - not a big deal but it could be a pain for after dinner coffees.
Just had my morning latte.. fabulous it was too.... Ive found using lactose free milk steams better than normal milk and Im a little lactose intolerant these days so it all helps.you get a better, and easier microfoam with it imo.
Apparently, it switches itself off after 20 minutes - not a big deal but it could be a pain for after dinner coffees.I'd get a 2nd hand Gaggia Classic off eBay. I did that and was happy for a couple of years TBH.
The problem with them is the pressure is way too high for plain espressos. OK for latte and other diluted variations though.
Since Marco has read this he won't do that though. We need to let him lose in his own way:D
Mrs H has complained that the coffee tastes burnt.
I think she prefers a lighter roast, so I am going to try some different beans.
Kevin, I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread, but I couldn't help myself from responding, being something of an espresso lover here too (my wife too). I found that turning down the boiler temp can help get rid of that aggressive "burnt" taste. I think you have an ECM machine, from the pics I see...correct? Do you have electronic boiler temp control panel on it? If not, try turning down the adjustment on the boiler pressure stat, which will mean opening the hood (bonnet to you guys over there :)) and tweaking it with a screwdriver. Grant has a good suggestion too -- your grinder might be too fast, overheating the beans.
What ECM do you have? We have an old Giotto, now called the Rocket. Wonderful machine! Totally reliable, built like a brick outhouse, to put it politely.
Great thread!
Cheers, and hope this helps.
Svend
Ordered 2 more packs of coffee beans from Tank Coffee..........
Cameroon Hosnia and Tanzania Mount Meru. Keep my coffee levels up for xmas
That Taylors Italian roast I mentioned is very good, btw :)
Marco.
That Taylors Italian roast I mentioned is very good, btw :)
Marco.
I like Taylors green packet coffee. Not tried the Italian as its not currently in stock in Tesco, but they do keep it. So when it comes in it should be fresh. Ive been going through the stuff Ive got so thought i would get some in for xmas b4 the rush. its kept in nice packs so should last a month b4 opening without degradation
Kevin, I hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread, but I couldn't help myself from responding, being something of an espresso lover here too (my wife too). I found that turning down the boiler temp can help get rid of that aggressive "burnt" taste. I think you have an ECM machine, from the pics I see...correct? Do you have electronic boiler temp control panel on it? If not, try turning down the adjustment on the boiler pressure stat, which will mean opening the hood (bonnet to you guys over there :)) and tweaking it with a screwdriver. Grant has a good suggestion too -- your grinder might be too fast, overheating the beans.
What ECM do you have? We have an old Giotto, now called the Rocket. Wonderful machine! Totally reliable, built like a brick outhouse, to put it politely.
Great thread!
Cheers, and hope this helps.
Svend
Svend,
Thanks for the response. I have a Mazzer Mini grinder which is anything but fast.
The machine is an ECM Synchronika, so has a PID control. I have been turning the boiler temperature down, and I am currently at 93 degrees C. The Mrs preferred the coffee when I changed the beans, with no complaints.
I am wondering if the change from conical to flat burrs will also have an impact, or if it is just a case of her not liking the Italian roasted beans.
Kevin,
Nice machine! I do wish our Giotto had a double boiler. Would be very good to have, as setting the pressure stat for correct brew temp means that steam pressure is reduced, and vice-versa. Oh well, our next machine shall be double-barrelled. But if I wait for the Giotto to die, I'll be old and grey.
I wouldn't think that your Mazzer is causing any burnt taste. You're right, it's got a nice leisurely pace, eh? We have a Macap...same thing..."Come on, damn you! Can't you see I'm in a hurry? Need coffee. Stat!"
Seems like your wife might just be sensitive to that flavour. I know that some beans don't please my wife either, whereas I just find them "robust" tasting. She can tell if the roaster had the fire too hot -- inside of the beans are done, but shell is slightly burnt. I presume the roasters do this for faster throughput, but Lord, it can taste horrible if overdone. Glad to hear all is at peace again around your espresso making. :D
Cheers,
Svend
I have ordered a mixture of 250g bags from "Cafes Lugat" to try, consisting of:
Ethiopie - Moka Nekemte - Medium roast. Apparently Floral and fruity (lemon zest) notes.
Brésil - Tres Barras - Light roast. Notes of nut, caramel and vanilla.
Colombie - Las Planadas - Medium roast. Notes of blackcurrant and caramel.
Le Mélange Bio (Ethiopie/Pérou) - Medium roast. Notes of chocolate and citrus fruits.
Le Blend Moka (Ethiopie) - Medium roast. Notes of exotic fruit and nougatine
Le Maracaju ( (Brésil, Ethiopie)) - Light roast. Red fruit and chocolate notes.
Ethiopie - Moka Yrgacheffe -Light roast. Notes of dates and Bergamot.
Costa Rica - Tarrazu - Light Roast. Almond and cacao notes.
Time will tell if any of them are any good!
It's arrived:
21921
Marco,
Have you bought anything yet?
If you want simplicity, have a look at the Melitta Varianza bean to cup machine.
Apparently it works well.
Having a built in grinder means it may take up less space.
Personally, I prefer the seperate machines, but if you are after convenience in a relatively small package, this may hit the spot.
Marco,
Have you bought anything yet?
Nah mate, I need to get time to do some proper research, as the next one I go for will be the *right* one, and don't have time at the moment.
Del's a big Miele fan and likes this: https://www.miele.co.uk/domestic/coffee-machines-2522.htm?mat=10593270&name=CM_6350
Marco.
That seems expensive to me. It is definitely worth researching.
well its a fully auto I think. Might not make the greatest coffee in world but it will make decent stuff and it is fairly idiot-proof. Not a bad option tbh.
That seems expensive to me. It is definitely worth researching.
Oh it's bloody expensive all right, but she's fallen in love with Miele products, now that the new kitchen is full of them! So this will be to 'match' the stuff we have :doh:
No, I like it too, but would probably rather have something that was more 'hands on', and looked traditionally Italian! We'll see... I'll certainly be doing plenty of research on it :)
Marco.
well its a fully auto I think. Might not make the greatest coffee in world but it will make decent stuff and it is fairly idiot-proof. Not a bad option tbh.
Indeed, which will suit me :D
Actually, Grant, it makes great coffee, as the suite we had in the hotel we went to in Austria last year, for our silver wedding anniversary, had one in it (one of the reasons Del likes it), so I can speak from experience there. I'd want to experiment with beans, though :)
Marco.
The Melitta Varianza does the same thing, and comes recommended from someone who knows about coffee machines, and will save you lots of cash.
Its an interesting question, Do you want the coffee or the making of it or both. if its mainly the first then thats the one for you:)
The Melitta Varianza does the same thing, and comes recommended from someone who knows about coffee machines, and will save you lots of cash.
that will be the TS bean to cup.. yes its half the price.
edit. here it is with AO
http://ao.com/product/6758350-melitta-caffeo-barista-ts-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine-black-44010-65.aspx?&WT.z_PT=SDA&WT.z_AT=Bean%20To%20Cup&WT.z_MT=Search&WT.z_RTM=PLA&WT.z_MAT=Melitta&WT.z_FT=Free%20Standing&WT.z_DT=c&WT.z_PC=6758350_BK&WT.srch=1&WT.z_CN=SDA%20-%20Bean%20To%20Cup%20-%20Melitta&WT.z_AG=Brand%20Type&WT.z_KW=6758350_bk&gclid=Cj0KCQiAi7XQBRDnARIsANeLIeuFLojkVeANU1RbtSqD wa-7920PY667lbZw2R1fCNlxouzPS-i2CnkaAqlyEALw_wcB
The Melitta Varianza does the same thing, and comes recommended from someone who knows about coffee machines, and will save you lots of cash.
Cool - another option to consider :thumbsup:
Marco.
Its an interesting question, Do you want the coffee or the making of it or both. if its mainly the first then thats the one for you:)
Haven't really thought about it, Grant. I guess the interesting part for me will be experimenting with different varieties of beans, and becoming au fait with the different flavours, just like with grapes (and wine), so I want to 'get into' that side of things in a fairly serious way.
I'm not so bothered about making the actual coffee, *as long* as the machine concerned does a good enough job (for me). Plus, as we entertain a lot, a fully automatic machine will save time when we're both busy doing other things :)
Marco.
worth thinking about as manual making has a lot of potential pitfalls. it can be time consuming too and for a time, hit n miss too. A good bean to cup will let you get pretty consistent results without the work, if thats important to you. Personally I like the making of it as much as the drinking, but as I get older I sometimes think a bean to cup would be good, but being on my own it wouldnt be the right choice.
Guys, if you're looking at full-auto units, I can recommend the Jura machines from Switzerland. Very well made, reliable, easy to program and use, simple to fix (modular parts), and they make great coffee. We had a lower-end Ena model in our house for a year, on loan from the in-laws, and I must say the espresso that came out of it was really very good. Not quite up to the standard that the Giotto can put out, but still very respectable and better than most coffee houses.
A couple of buying tips: make sure you get one that allows grind fineness adjustment (most do, I think) and basic programming of coffee strength. This can really make the difference between a watery shot and something actually drinkable. The Jura Ena, even for a simple machine, allows one to drill down into the setup programming and tweak the water volume, temp, etc. per shot. Then selecting "Strong" from the user control panel gives a very respectable shot.
If you must have steaming power, then the lower end machines may not be up to the job. This was where the Ena fell flat. Flimsy steam nozzles (even the upgraded ones) that would fly off in the middle of a job, spraying milk everywhere....not impressive. And the auto-steaming beaker-and-hose contraption barely made the milk lukewarm. Jura's higher end units have double boilers and more robust nozzles, but now you're getting into bigger money. Cheaper machines will not have boilers at all, only those flow-through heater thingys (can't recall the name...thermoblock?), that just can't crank out the steam volume. Not sure what Miele, Melitta or others can do here, but it's something to look out for.
Hope this helps....
Cheers,
Svend
Latest brew
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171117/831772e9eb8df1064bfdef924f39ba1a.jpg
Very fruity
walpurgis
17-11-2017, 16:39
I had coffee earlier. Don't often. All I can tell you about it is that it came from a jar and was brown. Tasted OK though! :D
having a Tanzanian Mount Meru today.. my first but wont be the last... its very nice if you get the chance.. tiny little beans too
julesd68
22-11-2017, 13:50
£40 for a cup of coffee?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-42069374/want-a-cup-of-coffee-that-ll-be-60
An interesting little report this ...
Tried my latest coffee, Cameroon hosnia. Very nice as well as the other yesterday. Pleased with both.
£40 for a cup of coffee?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-42069374/want-a-cup-of-coffee-that-ll-be-60
An interesting little report this ...
not in this world:stalks:
Half a cup of milk microwaved + two Nespresso capsules + half a spoon of instant to garnish + a bit of sugar.
My mid morning treat, better than Costa and (slightly) cheaper. Philistine, or what?
Haha most definitely.
It's a drink, I'm not sure I'd call that coffee though ;)
Got 2 more coffee's coming soon. Sidamo Sasaba from the Guji region of Ethiopia, and Cafetalera Fernandez from Panama.
Haha most definitely.
It's a drink, I'm not sure I'd call that coffee though ;)
I go out of my way to boycott anything by Nestlé, so cannot comment on the aforementioned witches brew.
Got 2 more coffee's coming soon. Sidamo Sasaba from the Guji region of Ethiopia, and Cafetalera Fernandez from Panama.
Ethiopia is the home of coffee, yet I'm not that fond of Ethiopian.
If you like the Panamanian coffee Grant, try some from either Guatamala or Costa Rica.
Ethiopia is the home of coffee, yet I'm not that fond of Ethiopian.
If you like the Panamanian coffee Grant, try some from either Guatamala or Costa Rica.
I love African coffee but quite like some S/C American as well. Hawaii does a nice one too although a bit pricey. Will see how this panamanian canal water one does first
I'm trying out some Algerian 'Santos Mocha' coffee at the moment. The last time I brewed Mocha was with some beans I brought back from Yemen.
Apropos Ethiopian coffee, the beans I brought back were a very dark roast, which was a little too dark for my tastes (I like dark roasts, but if they are heavily roasted and very dark, I find they can have a 'burnt' bitter taste), so perhaps I was a bit hasty in my comments.
Anyway if you are interested in Central American coffees, try either 'Rainforest Cobán', 'Highland Huehue' or 'La Azotea, Antigua', all from Guatamala.
just had another Camaroon.. very nice indeed. delicate. I like coffee to be this way, with a lighter roast; only drawback is the beans are harder to grind
My "Latte art" attempt at an apple.
21962
My "Latte art" attempt at an apple.
21962Err... the less said?:)
My "Latte art" attempt at an apple.
21962
Well I can see something there, but it ain't an apple :lol:
Looks like an apple to me
Follow me to the photocopier Grant . . . ;)
Ive done worse. It's nit easy to do tbh
Follow me to the photocopier Grant . . . ;)
Reminds me of the vision in the backup camera of my truck when a couple of buddies dropped a moon outside a pub :eek:. The horror! Nightmares still haunt me
My "Latte art" attempt at an apple.
21962
Dat's not an apple, it's a stiffy and pair o' boz! :D
Marco.
Personally, I saw a ghost.
It just goes to show how our minds all work differently.
I have just ordered an Espro tamper to take a variable out of making coffee, and to make it easier for the wife.
I also have a bottomless portafilter coming to identify where any faults lie.
Having a milky latte today.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171123/3e2295d830c477c11e5ae48486cd7270.jpg
A bit more milk than I usually use
Got the new coffees. Taken out some of each and reseated packets leaving the breathe hole intact. It's as usual for climpson. Light roasted. Smell delightful
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171123/df6dbd8de8fc8c2c1b3af3182260e786.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171123/cb105cc25346b0184e87bed17e7e39cb.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171123/52279447abdde00e09dbf099bbb3135d.jpg
Personally, I saw a ghost.
It just goes to show how our minds all work differently.
I have just ordered an Espro tamper to take a variable out of making coffee, and to make it easier for the wife.
I also have a bottomless portafilter coming to identify where any faults lie.You'll love the Espro. Obviously not worth it until you own one:D
Did you get the flat bottom or convex one?
trying the Panamanian now. Its nice, and typical of central America, although a bit more refined than most. a taste of pears is in there anyway. I like it
You'll love the Espro. Obviously not worth it until you own one:D
Did you get the flat bottom or convex one?
Flat bottom.
I am going to use it as a training tool.
I have also ordered a distributor to get that part right as well.
trying the Panamanian now. Its nice, and typical of central America, although a bit more refined than most. a taste of pears is in there anyway. I like it
Those Climpson coffees really are super fruity. Too much so for me but hey this is a personal trip.;)
Those Climpson coffees really are super fruity. Too much so for me but hey this is a personal trip.;)
could say that, but i oft mix them to better effect. depends on mood etc. they're hard as bloody nails tho
Flat bottom...
...girls they make the rocking world go round.
Me too. The convex one I am not convinced by.
But generally convex bottoms are better than flat:D
De'Longhi Magnifica Bean to Cup anyone? reduced to £199
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Magnifica-Espresso-Cappuccino-ESAM4200/dp/B001EOMZ5E/ref=pd_rhf_pe_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6T9Y3KFGSS8C2SMPGXFM
Looks like a bit of a bargain.
My new Ethiopian
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171125/8585deffe55ddb0cb4b8f4c4a19d9657.jpg
Very nice. Maybe the best of them
that was a stunningly good coffee. dunno if I can get anymore mind:doh:
That just looks *sooo* good.... I can almost taste how creamy it is from here!! Yumz :)
Marco.
De'Longhi Magnifica Bean to Cup anyone? reduced to £199
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Magnifica-Espresso-Cappuccino-ESAM4200/dp/B001EOMZ5E/ref=pd_rhf_pe_p_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6T9Y3KFGSS8C2SMPGXFM
Interesting... I may have considered that before, but am now of a mind to get something 'propa', and be done with it. It'll most likely be the Miele machine mentioned earlier.
Marco.
Interesting... I may have considered that before, but am now of a mind to get something 'propa', and be done with it. It'll most likely be the Miele machine mentioned earlier.
Marco.
Sure the Miele is better but that is a good bargain .... you can make decent coffee with most machines from a certain level and rarely from machines below I would say.
You could always go on a barista course. you'd learn everything and they would give you the feel for the different types of machines etc too. If your gonna spend a lot of cash its worth it.
My Ethiopian coffee this morning.
21980
Getting there Kevin. thats real microfoam
Interesting... I may have considered that before, but am now of a mind to get something 'propa', and be done with it. It'll most likely be the Miele machine mentioned earlier.
Marco.
WIth an Italian heritage, I am surprised to see you calling the Miele a “propa” machine!
Lol - 'propa' enough for me!
I'm sure it'll make great coffee (of consistent quality), be 'bomb proof' and last a lifetime. TBH, those last considerations are every bit as important to me (perhaps more) than the ability to make 'wonder coffee' to the nth degree :)
Marco.
julesd68
25-11-2017, 17:06
Is anyone using a hand grinder like the Hario ones?
I'm finding that ground espresso I buy in the stores just isn't fine enough to get the best out of my machine so might give one a go ...
I use a hand grinder. a Lido3, expensive but superb build quality and will grind down to Turkish ... as long as your not making gallons of the stuff its better than an electric. comes in a padded case etc so you can take it with you if you want.
https://www.coffeehit.co.uk/lido-3-hand-coffee-grinder.html
Getting there Kevin. thats real microfoam
I think I am starting to get used to the power of the steam with the new machine, and I have started to roll the milk.
julesd68
25-11-2017, 17:50
I use a hand grinder. a Lido3, expensive but superb build quality and will grind down to Turkish ... as long as your not making gallons of the stuff its better than an electric. comes in a padded case etc so you can take it with you if you want.
https://www.coffeehit.co.uk/lido-3-hand-coffee-grinder.html
That looks superb, but yes a bit over my budget for now! :lol:
Fair enough. It's worth getting the best u can as it really makes the coffee I had to sell a few things to get it
Lol - 'propa' enough for me!
I'm sure it'll make great coffee (of consistent quality), be 'bomb proof' and last a lifetime. TBH, those last considerations are every bit as important to me (perhaps more) than the ability to make 'wonder coffee' to the nth degree :)
Marco.Well if bomb proof is a factor don't go near the Miele.
I don't want to be rude, but it is a big lump of plastic.
A real Italian hunk of chrome, copper piping and proper easily replaceable pumps and other standard off the shelf parts will last much longer I think. And feel much higher quality in use.
Don't do it bro.
Lol - you obviously haven't used many Miele products before! The money is spent on where it matters MOST - on the mechanism, motor and user interface.
I'm not really bothered that much about looks. Check out the level of flexibility and some of the really cool features shown in this vid:
d6ZDsqF-jHc
Marco.
julesd68
25-11-2017, 20:23
I like Miele products.
My mum's had a Miele washing machine for more than 15 years and it has never given any trouble, very robustly made indeed.
Makes rubbish coffee though! :lol:
Lol - you obviously haven't used many Miele products before! The money is spent on where it matters MOST - on the mechanism, motor and user interface.
I'm not really bothered that much about looks. Check out the level of flexibility and some of the really cool features shown in this vid:
d6ZDsqF-jHc
Marco.I have already researched it and I stand by my statement.
The Miele 6310 gets good reviews for a bean to cup although it cant automatically make an Americano and the milk drinks can be bettered. Marco's favorite espresso is about as good as it gets tho. not read a review on the one in the vid..
The Melitta Caffeo Barista TS gets better reviews and is cheaper. But Miele do make decent stuff and it does do it all for you. A bit pricey imo as there are cheaper options but the man does like Miele products and will go with his kitchen.
I have already researched it and I stand by my statement.
Lol - well I stand by mine, which is what counts! :ner:
In all seriousness though, have you operated a currently produced Miele product? They really are a joy to use in every way, simply because the user interface is so intuitive and well-thought out - and they are extremely robustly built.
I don't need my kitchen to look like a wanky Milan coffee parlour...:eyebrows: ;)
Marco.
The Miele 6310 gets good reviews for a bean to cup although it cant automatically make an Americano and the milk drinks can be bettered. Marco's favorite espresso is about as good as it gets tho. not read a review on the one in the vid..
The Melitta Caffeo Barista TS gets better reviews and is cheaper. But Miele do make decent stuff and it does do it all for you. A bit pricey imo as there are cheaper options but the man does like Miele products and will go with his kitchen.
All good points, Grant. I'm not into Americanos, so that's a non-issue. The machine will be used almost exclusively for espressos and cappuccinos, maybe the odd latte. The guaranteed consistency of results (programmable to your personal settings) is indeed a big plus for me, once I get to know *exactly* how I like my coffee :)
And yes, the machine will match the other appliances in the kitchen :cool:
Marco.
Hmmm, I've been biting my tongue, but I have to say something. This is from of Miele fan, a fantastic company who make great vacuum cleaners, washing machines, fridges and the like - I know I buy them and I read Which. Most products from them are top of the consumer tree.
BUT and it's a big one, this is a 'lifestyle gadget' which makes coffee, but it's not a coffee machine. If you want to pull good espresso Marco and knowing what a fuss arse you are, you will be looking for an upgrade sooner than you can say "what'd buy that for you daftee"
Bean to cup gadgets are not specialist coffee makers, this is an Nespresso machine without the pods.
IMHO
:bum:
All good points, Grant. I'm not into Americanos, so that's a non-issue. The machine will be used almost exclusively for espressos and cappuccinos, maybe the odd latte. The guaranteed consistency of results (programmable to your personal settings) is indeed a big plus for me, once I get to know *exactly* how I like my coffee :)
And yes, the machine will match the other appliances in the kitchen :cool:
Marco.
And you dont have to spend 6 months pulling your hair out trying to get it right every time :eek: Its probably your best bet overall.
Hmmm, I've been biting my tongue, but I have to say something. This is from of Miele fan, a fantastic company who make great vacuum cleaners, washing machines, fridges and the like - I know I buy them and I read Which. Most products from them are top of the consumer tree.
BUT and it's a big one, this is a 'lifestyle gadget' which makes coffee, but it's not a coffee machine. If you want to pull good espresso Marco and knowing what a fuss arse you are, you will be looking for an upgrade sooner than you can say "what'd buy that for you daftee"
Bean to cup gadgets are not specialist coffee makers, this is an Nespresso machine without the pods.
IMHO
:bum:
Points taken, Tim. I totally appreciate where you're coming from - and indeed I might have agreed with you (and also with Justers) had it not been for the fact (which you must've missed earlier on the thread) that I've already tasted coffee from one of these machines, as we had one in the suite of our hotel in Austria last year! :)
We were staying there for a week, so had ample time to play with it and sample the coffee it makes (although at that time we had no real plans to buy a decent coffee machine), and it really does make a superb espresso and cappuccino - and that was only using coffee supplied by the hotel, which was nice but defo not the best, such as I'd be buying myself.
Therefore, based on the practical experience I've had with the machine already, I'd respectfully have to disagree with your opinion of it, although I understand and may have thought the same, had I not used one myself.
*However* nothing has been finalised yet, so ALL options are still being carefully considered. We're in no hurry whatsoever to make up our minds on what to get! :cool:
Marco.
Haha, yup I hear you (I did read that about the hotel room) and it no doubt does make good coffee and 99% of the coffee drinkers out there would no doubt be blissfully happy, but you're not one of the those 99% are you old bean ;)
I shall follow this journey with great interest - coffee is a science and they're as many coffee nerds out there as audiophiles, probably many more actually. All good fun though.
:popcorn:
Lol... I hear you, shweety, but if it satisfied me then (as the same old bean I am now), then it's fairly safe to say it'll satisfy me again.... ;)
Marco.
he cant be too fussy, as he drank mine and my machine is pants
Ha - you're coffee's great, as indeed anyone can see from the pics you've posted!
Marco.
What Tim said is close to my thoughts.
But what I really don't like is machines that are made out of plastic. And there is an abundance of it in the Miele. And it is not cheap. Quite hard to excuse that I find.
I also like the fact that a lot of the good Italian espresso machines are based on similar or identical bits that are easy to source.
Given that a good machine should last well beyond a decade this has to be a plus.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171126/5ebe4757c47aa2bfe8b49e4ec5a6a745.jpg
Another of those magnificent Ethiopians.
By way these are not true latte. More a lungo or cafe creme with microfoamed milk
Points taken, Tim. I totally appreciate where you're coming from - and indeed I might have agreed with you (and also with Justers) had it not been for the fact (which you must've missed earlier on the thread) that I've already tasted coffee from one of these machines, as we had one in the suite of our hotel in Austria last year! :)
We were staying there for a week, so had ample time to play with it and sample the coffee it makes (although at that time we had no real plans to buy a decent coffee machine), and it really does make a superb espresso and cappuccino - and that was only using coffee supplied by the hotel, which was nice but defo not the best, such as I'd be buying myself.
Therefore, based on the practical experience I've had with the machine already, I'd respectfully have to disagree with your opinion of it, although I understand and may have thought the same, had I not used one myself.
*However* nothing has been finalised yet, so ALL options are still being carefully considered. We're in no hurry whatsoever to make up our minds on what to get! :cool:
Marco.
I still think there are better machines for the money, but if matching it to the kitchen is more important and you are set on the Miele, who are we to stop you.
I still think a road trip to someone like Bella Barista is a good idea. You would have the benefit of their experience and advice (on the machines they stock) and you can try the coffee before you decide.
Another of those magnificent Ethiopians.
By way these are not true latte. More a lungo or cafe creme with microfoamed milk
They look much lighter than mine, so I was starting to wonder.
They look much lighter than mine, so I was starting to wonder.
I use lightly roasted beans so the crema is a fair bit lighter. if I use darker roast it is much darker Kevin. Nothing to do with the length of pour
What Tim said is close to my thoughts.
But what I really don't like is machines that are made out of plastic. And there is an abundance of it in the Miele. And it is not cheap. Quite hard to excuse that I find.
Not really, as it's still very solidly built, and the key bits that matter aren't plastic. It's a question of priorities: how much do you spend on the internal mechanism and the slickness and intuitiveness of the user interface, and how much on looks?
I doubt that Miele could build the machine in an all-metal enclosure and still deliver all of the above, without significantly increasing the cost...
Like I said earlier, I don't need my kitchen to look like a wanky Milan coffee house. What I want first and foremost, is the FUNCTIONALITY and quality of results I require, delivered in a professional, repeatable, fuss-free, 100% reliable way.
*BUT*, as I keep saying, nothing has been decided yet. We may still end up with something different from the Miele. I'm simply mentioning it just now because it ticks a lot of boxes, in terms of my particular needs :)
Marco.
I still think a road trip to someone like Bella Barista is a good idea. You would have the benefit of their experience and advice (on the machines they stock) and you can try the coffee before you decide.
Yup, we may still do that, if for no other reason than it would be a novel day out :)
Marco.
The problem I think is the money has gone where it doesn't count. Microprocessor, s/w development and associated bits etc. The milk flask will be a pain in the arse too I bet.
The only feature you really need is remote turn on via mobile/Alexa etc and maybe PID water temp control.
But if you want one you want one. Feel free to buy. It will make coffee that tastes pretty good. Above Nespresso anyway.
But if you want one you want one. Feel free to buy. It will make coffee that tastes pretty good. Above Nespresso anyway.
Lol - you keep saying that, but to my knowledge have never tried one! Talk about prejudging, based largely on ignorance.... ;)
Whereas, I've 'lived' with one for a week and can conclusively confirm that it produces coffee to a much higher standard than any Nespresso machine (which I've also used in the past), so shut it :ner:
Marco.
Saying what? If you mean Nespresso that is the first time.
Marco no offense mate but you have ignored a lot of advice on a subject you know nowt about. So accusing me of being ignorant is a total load of wazoc.
Lets leave it at that and move on. Falling out over a freakin' coffee machine isn't worth the bother.
Saying what? If you mean Nespresso that is the first time.
Marco no offense mate but you have ignored a lot of advice on a subject you know nowt about. So accusing me of being ignorant is a total load of wazoc.
Lets leave it at that and move on. Falling out over a freakin' coffee machine isn't worth the bother.
Lol - I'm not falling out over anything. We're having a discussion, mate.
Please tell me what advice I've "ignored"? You mean because I haven't abandoned plans to buy the Miele, and simply gone with what others have suggested instead? Well, sorry for having a mind of my own ;)
The reality is I've been listening to all of the advice given so far, and taking note of it for reference. That's perfectly normal. And you seem to be forgetting that I haven't made my decision yet on what machine to buy, so how can you say I've "ignored advice"? :hmm:
On the other hand, you've continually slagged off the Miele (as if you have a bee in your bonnet about it), despite to my knowledge, having never used one. *That* is ignorance, defined as having no practical experience of using something you're criticising. Would you have done that if we had been discussing hi-fi equipment?
I doubt it, but those are the facts of the matter, as far as how the discussion has gone. There are no hard feelings, as far as I'm concerned, but you need to accept that I will not simply bow to what folk think I should do with my own money!
I'm a very strong-willed person, and whilst I'll always listen to and appreciate advice from others, *ultimately* I will make my own decisions, so you need to respect and accept that fact - simples :cool:
Marco.
I reckon a manual coffee machine vs bean to cup is a bit like vinyl vs streaming.
One is a bit of a long winded, expensive process which gives great results when you get it right, the other gives you something at a touch of a button, but misses some "Soul".
It only misses some soul if you miss it. I like making coffee so I would miss it undoubtedly but Ive had to kinda give up vinyl but still enjoy music Maybe more in some ways oddly. Marco won't miss it as he hasn't been in that position. That's how I see it. Most folk going to a pro type machine just struggle like hell and give up. I would maybe struggle now with a top end machine as Ive not used one in years
Most folk going to a pro type machine just struggle like hell and give up.
Wise words indeed :)
Marco won't miss it as he hasn't been in that position.
Exactly, and I'm not even sure I want to know what it's like in the first place, in order to miss it! :eyebrows:
As I've said already, the most interesting bit for me will be experimenting with various types of beans, and getting to know their different flavours/characteristics. Ultimately. I'd like to become as knowledgeable about different types of coffee beans, as I am about different grape varieties, in reference to wine.
Then (if I go for the Miele) programming the machine to consistently deliver exactly how I like my coffee, using my favourite beans, without needing to 'slave over' the process, especially when we're having a dinner party, and I want to spend time chatting to my guests, not pissing about trying to be an award-winning Barista... ;)
Marco.
Lol - I'm not falling out over anything. We're having a discussion, mate.
Please tell me what advice I've "ignored"? You mean because I haven't abandoned plans to buy the Miele, and simply gone with what others have suggested instead? Well, sorry for having a mind of my own ;)
The reality is I've been listening to all of the advice given so far, and taking note of it for reference. That's perfectly normal. And you seem to be forgetting that I haven't made my decision yet on what machine to buy, so how can you say I've "ignored advice"? :hmm:
On the other hand, you've continually slagged off the Miele (as if you have a bee in your bonnet about it), despite to my knowledge, having never used one. *That* is ignorance, defined as having no practical experience of using something you're criticising. Would you have done that if we had been discussing hi-fi equipment?
I doubt it, but those are the facts of the matter, as far as how the discussion has gone. There are no hard feelings, as far as I'm concerned, but you need to accept that I will not simply bow to what folk think I should do with my own money!
I'm a very strong-willed person, and whilst I'll always listen to and appreciate advice from others, *ultimately* I will make my own decisions, so you need to respect and accept that fact - simples :cool:
Marco.
Well, no, you went out and bought a shit LIDL machine with a grinder we all told you wouldn't do the job.
And it doesn't, and what's more we know it doesn't because we have been there with cheap grinders.
I don't hate the Miele, it is just another bean to cup machine. I am just trying to steer you away from one, for the reasons I have stated, as the vast majority fall into a similar camp with the same issues.
Go ahead and buy the Bose of the coffee world. Or be cool and buy something that will last and is maintainable. I don't mind which you pick.
Anyway, with all due respect, and I hope I haven't upset you, I will leave this particular thread. I'm not enjoying it, but have enjoyed many other convos with yourself, so let's just leave this as one that didn't work out;)
Lol - why do you always insist on having the last word, and leaving the discussion in a way that paints me as somehow in the wrong? Sorry, Justin, it just doesn't work like that!
I wanted to try the "shit Lidl machine", so I could find out for myself that it was shit (or not). I form opinions based on MY own experiences, no-one else's. Why you (seemingly) can't accept that, I have no idea... :scratch:
Go ahead and buy the Bose of the coffee world. Or be cool and buy something that will last and is maintainable. I don't mind which you pick.
Oh but it seems that you do, because you keep going on [and on] about it, and furthermore referring to the Miele as "the Bose of the coffee world". Now that may be your opinion of it, which you're entitled to (even though you haven't tried one), but it doesn't have to be mine. Please get that into your head.
Now, if you want to leave it there for now, which is fine by me, then I suggest you don't give me any further cause to challenge your assertions. Cheers! :cool:
Marco.
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/500x/49626239/escalated-the-coffee-wars-have.jpg
There's a new 'specialist' coffee shop just recently opened in Wrexham, apparently run by qualified baristas: http://kingstreetcoffee.co.uk/news/
I may drop by there during the week, check it out (see how good the coffee is), watch how they do stuff and ask for their opinion on which machine would be best for my needs :)
Marco [always receptive to receiving good advice].
Marco, if I may comment here... Perhaps I've misread some of your posts, but it seems you may find the idea of a semi-auto machine with separate grinder, tamper, etc., a bit daunting. You've certainly heard from others that some users struggle with this and just give up after a few weeks of mediocre results. I want to reassure you that it really isn't all that difficult to get the hang of. A couple of days of practice and you'll have it nailed. After that it becomes second nature, and you can have two cappuccinos made start to finish incl. cleanup in less than five minutes. Piece of cake! :)
One of the keys to success, in my experience, is to have really good equipment from the start, otherwise you will end up frustrated and ditching it all. The front end is the grinder - not to be scrimped on!.... with a top notch grinder it will be hard to make a bad shot. Mazzer Mini or Macap MC4 (what we have) are two models you can't go wrong with. Then get a good tamper like an Espro (we have one also - great to learn with). After that, you don't need a $3000 machine to make great espresso - something like a Rancilio Sylvia or Nouva Simonelli Oscar will make a perfect shot, are built to last, have nice clean looks, and don't cost a second mortgage. The key here is temperature control - e.g. the Sylvia is notorious for having wild temp swings and being frustratingly difficult to get consistent shots from, so a PID to stabilize it is almost an essential add-on. With a heat exchanger (Giotto, Oscar) or double boiler type machine this is really not an issue.
So there you have it - choose well, and you will be making great shots in an hour, brilliant shots in a day. I mentioned in an earlier post that we had a Jura super-auto machine in our house for a year or so, just across the kitchen from our ECM Giotto...well, we hardly ever used the Jura and now it's in my wife's office. Making shots and steaming milk with the Giotto is so mechanical and second nature now, we can do it in our sleep (and often do:) ). OTOH the Jura was great when we had guests over and we didn't want to fuss with the Giotto. And it does make very good coffee, no doubt... The espresso from the Jura is delicious, milder than from the Giotto, but still very good.
As for style, granted, some higher end machines do look like they belong in a "wanky espresso bar", but some are very understated and look very minimalist industrial. Check out the Rancilio Sylvia, and you'll see what I mean. Personal taste to be sure...
Durability-wise, the semi-pro machines will easily last 20 years or more. Our Giotto is 12 years old and will easily go another 12. Super-autos will probably go 10 years (this according to our shop, who sells both). Maintenance costs of the super-autos is also higher. OTOH, cleaning and upkeep of the semi-autos is a PITA...descaling, head back-flushing...not fun, and can lead to a bunged up machine if you put it off (like I do sometimes...). That's where the super-autos are brilliant, they make it idiot proof and easy....no excuse not to do it.
Anyway, I hope this helps take some of the mystique out of the semi-pro machines. There are great machines to be had in both types. Hope you find one that works for You and enjoy it!
Best,
Svend
Edit: in re-reading the above, it may give the impression that I'm trying to nudge you toward the semi-pro, semi-auto machines and grinders. Not at all! My point is simply that you shouldn't be put off by any perceived difficulty in getting good results or inconvenience in their use. Once you twig it, it's so easy a child could do it. Get the fundamentals right from the beginning, and the results will be great. That said, some of the super-autos are excellent machines too. The trick is finding a good one that's well made, durable and makes good coffee and has good steaming power. If one of these better suits your lifestyle and would get used more than the other, then you will love it. Hey, anything beats a pod machine...or Starbs :D
Hi Svend,
First of all, thanks for taking the time to write all of the above and impart your knowledge and experience with espresso machines, which is much appreciated and will most certainly be considered :) :thumbsup:
Perhaps I've misread some of your posts, but it seems you may find the idea of a semi-auto machine with separate grinder, tamper, etc., a bit daunting.
Lol... Quite understandably, you don't know me. Let me assure you that's definitely not the case. If I consider something is worthwhile, I'll go to inordinate lengths to achieve it, and am not the type to be easily put off something that I'm determined to do.
That said, I'm also wary of the novelty factor wearing off something that takes not inconsiderable effort to achieve, and an expensive item eventually lying largely redundant because the fun has gone out of using one's 'new toy', which is where an auto machine has distinct advantages, as once your preferences have been set, at a touch of a button you've got what you want, with minimal effort - and with the right machine, 95% as good as delivered by a 'Barista Special'.
So I guess it depends on how much you want that last 5%....
This exercise is simply about deriving pleasure from what I'm into most: drinking great tasting coffee, how I like it, with utterly consistent results and minimal faff (that bit is very important), experimenting with different types of coffee beans, and getting to know what I like the flavour of most.
Therefore, it's the end result that's of more interest to me, than the actual process involved in getting there! That's what folks here should bear in mind.
Also, how the machine which best delivers that looks, and what it's made from, is of minor importance, as long as its solidly constructed, intuitive to use, trouble/bug-free and reliable. The other key thing too, is that the whole shebang must have a relatively small footprint, as we have limited worktop space available in our kitchen to house it, especially in terms of height (as it'll be going underneath some kitchen units), so whichever machine I get has to be pretty compact.
We'll see what I end up with. Nothing will be done until next year, as with Christmas coming up, we have other more important priorities. Anyway, thanks again for your kind advice :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Thanks for the insight. I didn't think anyone who's as into HiFi as the gang here would ever be daunted by making a simple cup of coffee, but one never knows...? :) As for faffing about, yes there's a learning curve to using a semi-auto machine, getting the grind and tamp right, etc., but once you've got it dialled it's really no more fuss than using a super-auto. That learning curve is a couple of days, which is nothing compared to decades of good brew to follow. Child's play... :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsbZjFBKmUQ
As for the "last 5%", well, I have limited experience with super-auto machines (Jura, Gaggia, Saeco, De Longhi), and I have never had an espresso from one that comes close in flavour intensity to what a good semi-pro machine can do. Perhaps going to a good shop that can make you some shots in both types of machine would be very illuminating. That said, I think the espresso that super-autos are capable of is still delicious...just milder is all, but still very tasty. The poorer machines, OTOH, make coffee that is no better or even worse than what a stove-top moka pot will do. (BTW, moka pot coffee is something special - we still make it, tastes great, and the Bialetti is so iconic...every kitchen should have one :))
To be honest though, the farting around that I hate with the semi-pro machines is the cleaning. I spent hours yesterday descaling the Giotto and back-flushing the head. My fault, partly, as I'm always busy with work and keep procrastinating on this job. Good weather outside and a free couple of hours?...I'm out in the woods on my bike or doing something fun with my family, not fussing with cleaning the machine. A super-auto would be great in this regard -- just drop a tab in and push a button.
Enjoy the hunt! I'm sure you'll post back as to what you decide on.
Cheers,
Svend
ive never cleaned inside mine in 10 years. it still works as it did.maybe better lol of course u dont get limescale here so thats a help
Lucky you, Grant :). We get plenty of limescale here. I recently fixed a friend's machine whose pump had stopped working because it was so clogged with lime deposits. Needed a new pump. She's now cleaning it regularly... :rolleyes: I can tell when ours is starting to get bunged up, as the pump starts getting loud. I suspect the lime may also be responsible for the pressurestat in the Giotto going wonky every 6 to 12 months, but them I hear that's a common complaint from other semi-auto machine owners, not just Giottos. It must be the most miserably designed piece of equipment in a high end domestic appliance ever -- imagine the power regulator in a $3000 amplifier failing every six months? I'm seriously looking at a PID for the machine, even though temp control is fine, just for better reliability.
Cheers,
Svend
My Espro tamper has turned up.
I have put it to use already, and have to say I was potentially tamping lighter than with the Espro.
I had a friend round last night who is a coffee fan, so we had a quick espresso, which he seemed to really enjoy.
Today I have moved on to Costa Rican beans, of a lighter roast. The first shot will be tomorrow morning.
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