View Full Version : The Coffeehouse.... Baristi, Barista, Bariste
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To use an old stones number
Brown sugarish
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180922/034487bd86e207635d8111e8952d97b3.jpeg
Hey, you're getting fancy now!:eyebrows:
Returning to the milk thing, I have to concede that Justers was right on the subject of whole vs. semi-skimmed. Whole milk is definitely better (creamier), and not too rich, if used in the right way:)
The problem was, as a non-milk drinker, I'd not tasted *proper* whole milk for years, such as one used to get in glass bottles, delivered straight from the dairy by the milkman. My recent experience has simply been with bog-standard supermarket milk, and the whole-milk version of that isn't very good, and rather 'plasticky' in taste.
However, the Calon Wen below is in a different league, and tastes just like proper milk used to! Consequently it makes fantastic cappuccinos (and no doubt, macchiatos):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/xWSAOk.jpg
Details here: https://calonwen-cymru.com/our-range/
It's now inspired me to investigate the rest of their product range, delivered direct to your door!:cool:
Marco
We have the luxury of a milkman who delivers in glass bottles. I am more than pleased to pay the bill as for 12 years they have never missed a delivery apart from in extreme weather conditions .
Their milk is excellent.
Anyway I am glad you have found something better than supermarket fat cells in water LOL!:)
Something else with generic supermarket milk is it's all homogenised, had the fats broken down and evenly distributed. " Old fashioned " milk is just pasteurised and then bottled, where the cream sits at the top. Just tastes so much better. A few years ago I rented a cottage on a dairy farm and used to get milk pretty much straight from the cow with no processing at all, of course there is the potential for health problems but if the herd is healthy and good hygiene used it is the best tasting milk ever.
I made the homogenised point above.
The thing is, why the fuck are they doing it? Anyone know why they are deliberately ruining milk with this homogenising bullshit?
I think it's to make it easier to digest and you don't get the thick creamy dod on top which many disliked
You simply shake the bottle before you open it. Granted you may get the odd lump of cream but hey, it tastes 8 times better.
We have the luxury of a milkman who delivers in glass bottles. I am more than pleased to pay the bill as for 12 years they have never missed a delivery apart from in extreme weather conditions .
Their milk is excellent.
Anyway I am glad you have found something better than supermarket fat cells in water LOL!:)
Lol, indeed... I admire your discernment and desire for consuming quality milk.
I'd love to use a milkman, as you've outlined (I'm sure there'd be plenty in this area), if for no reason other than cutting down on plastic. Glass is better for the environment, as it's much easier to recycle, and doesn't adversely affect the flavour of milk, as does plastic, however with only me taking cow's milk in our house, it simply wouldn't be practical.
The Calon Wen though, plastic bottle aside, as it's produced just up the road from where we live, is likely to be pretty much as good:)
Marco.
Something else with generic supermarket milk is it's all homogenised, had the fats broken down and evenly distributed. " Old fashioned " milk is just pasteurised and then bottled, where the cream sits at the top. Just tastes so much better. A few years ago I rented a cottage on a dairy farm and used to get milk pretty much straight from the cow with no processing at all, of course there is the potential for health problems but if the herd is healthy and good hygiene used it is the best tasting milk ever.
Spot on, Ian:thumbsup:
Marco.
You simply shake the bottle before you open it. Granted you may get the odd lump of cream but hey, it tastes 8 times better.
I fully agree, but I can see some folks baulking at an 'oil slick', of said cream, floating on the surface of their cup of tea!;)
Marco.
Beobloke
23-09-2018, 11:02
Personally, I wouldn’t use full fat milk in tea - after years of having semi-skinned it just tastes wrong!
I fully agree, but I can see some folks baulking at an 'oil slick', of said cream, floating on the surface of their cup of tea!;)
Marco.When I microwave 1/2 pint of Jersey milk, the fat congregates on the surface. So when I pour it in the thermos, much is removed as it wants to stay in the Pyrex jug.
It still tastes way better than sem-skimmed supermarket.
Homogenisation reduces the size of the fat molecules by high pressure. But doing so appears to crucify the taste.
It should taste cremier according to this video. It doesn't. Something is very wrong with this process.
https://youtu.be/r0rCEBPgo5Q
Using A2 semi skimmed today
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/ab21cd87785b72fdb5a0f4d80ce603c0.jpeg
You old goat you:)
Called A2 because of the type of protein it contains I see.
You old goat you:)
Called A2 because of the type of protein it contains I see.
Lol.. yup its very easy on my stomach but i prefer goats milk, which is naturally homogenized. ... Thus, the benefit of natural homogenization comes into clear view. Goat's milk has smaller fat globules and does not contain agglutinin which allows it to stay naturally homogenized and tastes very creamy.
Just about to check this big bag I ordered from Amazon...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/921505fa7a9beb45f7c3cc3f31ea835e.jpg
It's quite good. Nowt to write home about.
not a tea drinker alas. oddly my wife was a tea-jenny, and my mum was too.
When I microwave 1/2 pint of Jersey milk, the fat congregates on the surface. So when I pour it in the thermos, much is removed as it wants to stay in the Pyrex jug.
It still tastes way better than sem-skimmed supermarket.
Cool... However, if you get your milk delivered locally by a milkman, why are you buying Jersey milk, instead of Bristol's best [i.e from a farm local to you]?;)
Surely the dairy where your milkman gets his milk must also source theirs locally?
Yes, Jersey milk is good, but I'd bet that outside of the locality, you're probably only tasting it at 80% of its potential. Therefore, I suspect that good quality milk, produced locally to you, will taste every bit as good, or if not better - and probably cheaper :)
Homogenisation reduces the size of the fat molecules by high pressure. But doing so appears to crucify the taste.
It should taste cremier according to this video. It doesn't. Something is very wrong with this process.
https://youtu.be/r0rCEBPgo5Q
Yeah, it seems to be another example of modernisation simply improving cost and convenience, rather than quality.
Marco.
It's quite good. Nowt to write home about.
Well I love a good loose-leaf tea, and DJ is one of my favs:)
This is where I buy all my tea from. The quality of the product and customer service is excellent: https://www.mysticbrewteas.com/collections/black-teas
Highly recommended, Justers!
Marco.
Well I love a good loose-leaf tea, and DJ is one of my favs:)
This is where I buy all my tea from. The quality of the product and customer service is excellent: https://www.mysticbrewteas.com/collections/black-teas
Highly recommended, Justers!
Marco.The milkman brings nine points of milk a week. It is great. I supplement it with Jersey milk if I use more, that's all. I frequently do need more and enjoy a bit if variety.
Milkman's milk is ace milk.
First flush DJ can be good but I prefer a stronger DJ generally. Might try your reco.
Ah, no worries.... 9 pints a week, from the milkman, and you *still* need more?:eek: Can you not top-up with some titty milk?:eyebrows:
Two pints last me about 10 days! :D
Defo give Mystic a go. I use them for Earl Grey too, and it's fab! Currently, tea-wise, we've got loose leaf in Assam, Darjeeling, Jasmine, English Breakfast, Earl Grey, and 'builders tea', in bags, from Yorkshire Tea, which we find is the best tasting one in that format.
Del has some fruit teas, too.
Marco.
Good morning
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180924/19ee349ba1a7484e269580e5f9afef79.jpeg
Are you drawing those patterns in with a teaspoon Grant? They don't look naturally poured...
Beobloke
24-09-2018, 09:49
Cool... However, if you get your milk delivered locally by a milkman, why are you buying Jersey milk, instead of Bristol's best [i.e from a farm local to you]?;)
Surely the dairy where your milkman gets his milk must also source theirs locally?
Amusingly, most of the supermarkets and shops in our area source their milk from a dairy that is about 2 miles away from us, so even when I buy supermarket (at Lidl, usually) I’m buying local!
walpurgis
24-09-2018, 10:04
I like a decent sized coffee myself :).
http://i67.tinypic.com/2nirxio.jpg
always use a spoon, as i dont have a machine that can make enough of the pouring stuff.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180924/54f56570591a66845c13c30be2337657.jpeg
Yum
always use a spoon, as i dont have a machine that can make enough of the pouring stuff.
That’s cheating!
who says? bloody weird attitude.. :doh:
found a pic of my Syphon Cona coffee maker.
https://imageshack.com/a/img674/7389/g3OfC2.jpg
coffee is good and its as much a talking point as anything now.. not used it in years tho.
Check out my Hario. After dinner with guests toys.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180924/9a8f84301c2c428e299b5834bd820be5.jpg
A prettier version of my cona. I especially like the stand
Another monsoon. Used lots of this so bought another lot. 1kg this time
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180925/f8942210817569e7df3c92f8e7068c46.jpg
Quatermass coffee
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180926/5c49711461cce6667741dd2687d6f8d2.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180927/91bce69345993018de3184dee04ef33e.jpeg
Galleons of the stuff
A six pack
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180928/1d0c6553bbc20f7105d10a3cc9c91619.jpeg
Ha - just like yours! Or is that more a 'sag-pack'?:D
Just bought a bag of these to try, as an alternative to the Costa Mocha Italia (which I'm now running a bit low on):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/imNjvH.jpg
Details here: https://www.coffeemasters.co.uk/
Full report on what they're like once I try them:cool:
Marco.
Ha - just like yours! Or is that more a 'sag-pack'?:D
Just bought a bag of these to try, as an alternative to the Costa Mocha Italia (which I'm now running a bit low on):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/imNjvH.jpg
Details here: https://www.coffeemasters.co.uk/
Full report on what they're like once I try them:cool:
Marco.
look interesting.. let us know.. rave coffee do good ones
Will do, mate. Did a bit of research on it, and these seem to have a good rep:)
Also, what I've learned is that to get the rich, smooth flavour (without much bitterness) I like with coffee, it's best to use Arabica beans, sourced from Central America, which this roast features the use of.
I like my coffee rather like I like my malt whisky: rich, dark, smooth and deep!;)
Marco.
I would send them back. Well out of date....
A blend with Ethiopian and Indian coffee as well.
Lol - that's a stock picture, daftee, not mine!:D
Plus, more details of what's in it here: https://www.coffeemasters.co.uk/coffee-8220/coffee-beans/full-bodied-espresso-blend
A medium dark roast blend of Arabica beans from Central America & Brazil and Robusta beans from India & Ethiopia bring a toffee sweetness combined with hints of cocoa and finished with a subtle fruity acidity. A well-balanced coffee suitable for any time of the day.
So, not just India and Ethiopia.
Marco.
I prefer 100% arabica myself.
I currently have “cafe Caron” on the go, but you probably can’t get that in the U.K.
http://www.cafecaron.com (http://www.cafecaron.fr)
A good espresso blend from an award winning roaster.
Looks like you can order it, via their website, so will bear it in mind for next time: https://www.cafecaron.com/grain/10013-le-cafe-caron-pur-arabica-en-grains.html
I'm just experimenting, Kev. Still very new to this game, so need to try different blends and makers, in order to find what best suits my palate:)
Marco.
I totally agree.
I used to swear by Illy medium roast, then I changed my machine etc. Sometimes I wish I hadn’t as it is a nightmare finding something that is just as good!
You could order the Caron, but postage won’t be cheap!
Can recommend the monsoon from rave. It's very nice
https://ravecoffee.co.uk/collections/single-origin-coffee/products/indian-monsooned-malabar-aa?variant=2783903514650
Talking of the monsoon.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180929/1b3d96e5a00fd4db45af7c43f08d4c81.jpeg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180929/2780186cb45e6f8b17d3432f4fa12311.jpeg
1 kg bag as they are getting low on stock and I like this
Just ordered 4 of their coffees.
Better be good, Grant:wink:
Just ordered 4 of their coffees.
Better be good, Grant:wink:
lol, most have been or i wouldnt keep using them. got a few new ones to try as well
I lied I got 5 actually for free shipping.
1x Honduras Clave del Sol Honey - Small (250g) / Whole Bean for £6.95 each
1x El Salvador Los Pirineos - Small (250g) / Whole Bean for £7.45 each
1x Colombia Suarez Project - Small (250g) / Whole Bean (Whole) for £5.25 each
1x Brazil Presente Do Sol - Small (250g) / Whole Bean (Whole) for £5.25 each
1x Sumatra Tano Batak - Small (250g) / Whole Bean (Whole) for £5.95 each
Had any of those you can remember?
Ive got a pack of the first but not opened it yet... not tried the others. they have a lot of new ones in and i usually go African
The perfect crema
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180930/5f464e817910ec899f6a692a4edec85a.jpg
it was in fact the perfect coffee.. pity its gone.
Lol... All good things eventually come to an end. I just used my Tassimo pod machine, for the first time in months, to make an espresso (then cappuccino). Tasted rank!:spew:
...simply because my palate has got used to the taste of freshly ground coffee! And in comparison with that, it just tastes so artificial (bitter and plasticky). Oh well, at least it proves that my considerable efforts in hand-grinding beans, etc, hasn't been in vain!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Lol... All good things eventually come to an end. I just used my Tassimo pod machine, for the first time in months, to make an espresso (then cappuccino). Tasted rank!:spew:
...simply because my palate has got used to the taste of freshly ground coffee! And in comparison with that, it just tastes so artificial (bitter and plasticky). Oh well, at least it proves that my considerable efforts in hand-grinding beans, etc, hasn't been in vain!:eyebrows:
Marco.
My lad has a tassimo and he loves it, as do folk who come in and get one. Personally i am less than happy to taste it as, like you say, my palate is used to better i guess. still for quick and easy its not bad
We have a Nespresso Pro machine and free coffee pods at work.
I hardly ever use it, as my old coffee machine is in the office, still doing a great service.
My lad has a tassimo and he loves it, as do folk who come in and get one. Personally i am less than happy to taste it as, like you say, my palate is used to better i guess. still for quick and easy its not bad
I used to like mine, too. But once you've upped the ante and tasted the *real* thing, there's no going back to something obviously inferior!:)
Bit like some woman say: 'once you've had black, you can't go back':eyebrows:
Marco.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180930/b5df3bb442721dae1fe6f720c478601f.jpeg
Another pretty good one. Coffee beans are just about perfect now. I find they improve a lot with a weeks airing in jar a bit like whisky
First of day and badly needed
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181001/52c8f081700f2c3767357f83bf53dc64.jpg
Coffee time
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181002/e627a329f724dcafa76f27f5ddf4e031.jpeg
White fire
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/3705a2842790e3ed154918b934e788b0.jpg
Double ferned
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/ab6f8d627e635eba0702b79415dbb358.jpg
Aforementioned shit arrived.
Bud riot hey? Like they're druggies or something?
Course they are. Coffee is the drug.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/68e1ab29295fec7797a765cb87ec1ac7.jpg
is that good or bad ;)First cup tastes alright. Fairly top.
First cup tastes alright. Fairly top.
Not had a bad one from them although one or two weren't to my taste. One I got wasn't a good one for espresso but that was my fault
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181005/fd6bb8c094ded82771fbb306a9337e87.jpeg
Rwandan bullseye
Interestingly the Rave receipt says for coffee beans let them rest for 10-12 days after roast for best results. But the bag says drink before 30 days after roast. Small window to drink 5 bags LOL.
Interestingly the Rave receipt says for coffee beans let them rest for 10-12 days after roast for best results. But the bag says drink before 30 days after roast. Small window to drink 5 bags LOL.
agree with the week to rest preferably in a jar with just a little air. open it every few days etc... would think you'll get a month after that easily.. several if then kept in vacuum or near
Actually there no roast date on any of the packets or on the receipt.
Minus one point. It is always on HasBean packs.
check bottom of packet.. it should be there if memory serves on a label
True. Didn't think to look.
Best before 3 months from now roasted on 1st October.
They usually roast almost to order. Remember wondering where it was myself
Back to monsoon madness
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/3c740584bf164a2e84b1410139a76af4.jpeg
Did a goats milk coffee... I'd rather cow's milk but it is drinkable. Definitely way ahead of soya, which I can't stand.
I like the goat; but also the A2 cows milk. not had any intestinal issues since using them
Afternoon coffee
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181006/b978561ad94a90243b0778942cda6bed.jpg
Good moaning
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181007/0a818817d02553401872377f9eba1fb6.jpg
Do shut up coffee
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181008/44aff098028cfc3429d2aff38b0fface.jpg
My new espresso cup for drinking coffee at work.
24364
Indian
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181009/9ff96f3ad95c7f02ec1cc419c0467612.jpeg
Ethiopian
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181011/79049a5b03a0d26914af03278b190dd8.jpg
It's creamy man
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181012/88b3e59b4e6a6de4f63a6569071a3bf1.jpeg
Modern art. Aka a mess
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181012/f4b7477ddd01b4dfbb174132e51170d0.jpg
Weekend coffee
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181013/eadf75f8127978d3f5b9c728769537f7.jpeg
Just bought a bag of these to try, as an alternative to the Costa Mocha Italia (which I'm now running a bit low on):
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/imNjvH.jpg
Details here: https://www.coffeemasters.co.uk/
Full report on what they're like once I try them:cool:
Just some feedback on these beans... Whilst they're very good quality (beautiful aroma when the bag is first opened), and produce a lovely rich, full-bodied tasting coffee, they're still a little bitter for my tastes, probably because of the African connection.
As stated, I like a very smooth, rich coffee, with no obvious bitter edge [probably with being more of an Arabica lover], and on their own these beans don't quite deliver that flavour. However..... I bought a bag of these:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/KXdNt3.jpg
...and now mix half of those with half of the Coffee Masters beans, in the grinder (normal quantity I need for making a large espresso each morning, which turns into a cappuccino), and that creates an absolutely superb tasting blend indeed! The latter add just a touch more bitterness and 'bite', but also a unique 'dark chocolate' flavour, which produces a really lovely rich cup of coffee.
Just shows what happens when you experiment... I can see me sticking with this blend for a while, as it's very satisfying indeed:)
Marco.
Yeah I agree Marco.
At the moment I am not filling my hopper with 250g bags. I am putting maybe 100g in, then in the last 20g or so, mixing with 20g of something else. Or if the 1st 100g sucks, immediately go into blend experiment mode.
Yup, as ever, it pays to experiment!
What a difference in flavour though, going from 100% Arabica to something like this. The Coffee Masters beans are so much darker, plus they're also softer to grind. Arabica beans are 'crunchier' and much lighter in colour, but the combination of the two, in terms of flavour, is simply immense.
It's all a rather pleasant learning curve:cool:
Marco.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181013/06ee02ff1741f21e83a284f932f4e66d.jpeg
Reward coffee
Sign of a good un
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181013/419075cf00e1e4634a15327bb74e4427.jpeg
Just some feedback on these beans... Whilst they're very good quality (beautiful aroma when the bag is first opened), and produce a lovely rich, full-bodied tasting coffee, they're still a little bitter for my tastes, probably because of the African connection.
As stated, I like a very smooth, rich coffee, with no obvious bitter edge [probably with being more of an Arabica lover], and on their own these beans don't quite deliver that flavour. However..... I bought a bag of these:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/KXdNt3.jpg
...and now mix half of those with half of the Coffee Masters beans, in the grinder (normal quantity I need for making a large espresso each morning, which turns into a cappuccino), and that creates an absolutely superb tasting blend indeed! The latter add just a touch more bitterness and 'bite', but also a unique 'dark chocolate' flavour, which produces a really lovely rich cup of coffee.
Just shows what happens when you experiment... I can see me sticking with this blend for a while, as it's very satisfying indeed:)
Marco.
arabica is generally less bitter, but over extraction will exaggerate bitterness especially in dark roasts. darker roasts should be extracted quicker than light ones.
Lol... Love how the pattern has stayed to the end!
What are your views on my comments about beans, above? As someone who's never experimented before with coffee beans, I'm shocked at just how different Robusta beans smell and taste compared with Arabica...
It appears that beans from Ethiopia and India have more of a bitter taste, than those from Central America. Would you agree? I'm wondering now what Columbian would be like?:)
I like a little bit of bitterness/acidity, but primarily a nice smooth rich roast.
Marco.
I wouldnt say bitter... Ethiopian are often lightly roasted to avoid it but can be a little acidic/fruity. if you have a dark roast then dont extract it so long is the answer. I often mix 2 different ones i like that have different characteristics together to get a nice middle result. alas with your brewing method its difficult to alter the brew so i would advise a lighter roast.
Cheers, mate. Interesting comments about the extraction time - and no I can't really control that at the moment. It's certainly noted though, for the future.
I think when I finish the current bag of Coffee Masters, next time I'll go for this, as I'd like to try their 100% Arabica variety - and it gets great reviews: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coffee-Masters-Exclusive-Arabica-Espresso/dp/B00Q0CQYMU
Check out this guy's review and the pic of his coffee (and machine)....
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/WBoo7W.png
Looks great!:cool:
Marco.
Audio Al
13-10-2018, 15:50
I have just opened a 1kg bag of Columbi Suarez beans
Have another 1kg bag of Rowanda Cyato yet to be opened
Happy coffee drinking :)
Also just fitted a new punp in my ECM Barista now seems to be working again :D
Lol... Love how the pattern has stayed to the end!
What are your views on my comments about beans, above? As someone who's never experimented before with coffee beans, I'm shocked at just how different Robusta beans smell and taste compared with Arabica...
It appears that beans from Ethiopia and India have more of a bitter taste, than those from Central America. Would you agree? I'm wondering now what Columbian would be like?:)
I like a little bit of bitterness/acidity, but primarily a nice smooth rich roast.
Marco.
Marco, you're using a moka pot, right? If your brew is too bitter then you may be overheating the brew water to the point of boiling. Not great for smooth taste. Try this: have the burner at med or med-high to start, then as soon as you see the coffee start to trickle out then turn the heat to med-low or lower. You want it coming out in a nice steady stream but without boiling it. If it starts to sputter and fart then it's too hot. Also, if you're packing it too tight in the grinds basket, then the water will overheat by default as it will need that extra pressure to get through. So easy does it on tamping the grounds.
Hope this helps...
Svend
Hi Svend,
Marco, you're using a moka pot, right? If your brew is too bitter then you may be overheating the brew water to the point of boiling. Not great for smooth taste. Try this: have the burner at med or med-high to start, then as soon as you see the coffee start to trickle out then turn the heat to med-low or lower. You want it coming out in a nice steady stream but without boiling it. If it starts to sputter and fart then it's too hot. Also, if you're packing it too tight in the grinds basket, then the water will overheat by default as it will need that extra pressure to get through. So easy does it on tamping the grounds.
That's an excellent tip, and indeed something I have already discovered:)
I don't think the bitterness in question, however, is related to overheating the brew water, but simply the characteristics of the beans themselves.
It exists in the smell, as soon as they've been ground. Before I even made coffee, using the Coffee Masters 'Full-bodied Espresso Blend' beans, I knew that it was going to be a little more bitter than what I had been used to with 100% Arabica, simply from the aroma.
However, you raise a couple of points....
Currently, I boil the brew water first, in a kettle, then fill the reservoir in the Moka pot up with boiling water, to just under the little valve (was recommended to do that, in order to speed up the brew process). Is that a good idea? Or is the water better going into the reservoir cold, and slowly heating up to temperature, simply by using the burner?
When the pot hits the burner after that, it's on a medium heat, not high, and pretty soon afterwards the coffee starts to trickle out, then turns into a nice steady stream. It never splutters. What would you say should be the average extraction time, from the pot hitting the burner, to the coffee being ready to drink?
Also, at the moment, I don't tamp the grinds at all. I just fill up the basket and tip it gently back and forth, so that the grinds are evenly spread, leaving about an even 2mm gap at the top of the basket (so not quite full).
So do you think I should tamp the grinds a little, or leave things as they are?:cool:
Marco.
i wouldnt tamp(its not a pressure machine). you could adjust the grind a bit, bit maybe altering bean roast will change things
i wouldnt tamp(its not a pressure machine). you could adjust the grind a bit, bit maybe altering bean roast will change things
That's what I thought mate, which is why I don't. However, I'd still appreciate Svend's advice, as he's got lots of experience with Moka pots:)
I've been experimenting with the grind, and prefer it fine (as in for espressos), rather than any coarser than that, so that's how I've set the grinder.
Don't get me wrong, the quality of the coffee I'm getting is excellent, so there's no issue there. It's just a matter of experimenting with beans and discovering the right ones (or blend as such) for my palate.
Marco.
Marco, it sounds like you're getting the hang of the moka pot and getting some nice results from it. You are right not to tamp. One could, but only very lightly. Best is what you are doing, and tweaking brew time with grind fineness. I had forgotten you had a grinder, and assumed you were buying pre-ground. As for pre-boiling the water, I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you're not boiling the water during actual brewing itself. Re. your question on brew times, I think it varies depending on the size of your pot. The little ones will be done quicker, obviously. I recall getting good results with a 6 cup pot and a brew time of about 3 to 4 minutes or so. Remember, this isn't like a pressurized machine where you're shooting for 30 seconds.
Good to hear you're enjoying the moka pot!
Cheers,
Svend
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181014/c4ab6aa5a2640a3e890fcf9a2428927f.jpeg
Kenyan with a sprinkle of Ethiopia
That's what I thought mate, which is why I don't. However, I'd still appreciate Svend's advice, as he's got lots of experience with Moka pots:)
I've been experimenting with the grind, and prefer it fine (as in for espressos), rather than any coarser than that, so that's how I've set the grinder.
Don't get me wrong, the quality of the coffee I'm getting is excellent, so there's no issue there. It's just a matter of experimenting with beans and discovering the right ones (or blend as such) for my palate.
Marco.
You may need to adjust the grind slightly when you switch beans. It is pretty much a case of suck it and see.
I am pleased to see that you got a grinder, as I cannot believe people of love coffee do not go to the additional expense to get the very best out of it.
Yeah, a good grinder makes a big difference!
I also agree about the grind sometimes needing adjusted with different types of beans. Some are harder and some softer. Also, I always only grind exactly the quantity I need (measured out), just before I'm about to make coffee, in order to maximise freshness and flavour:)
Btw, in terms of milk (and this is aimed primarily at Justers), I've found a local dairy who deliver their whole milk in bottles, which is reputed to be first-class. The glass bottles will cut down on our use of plastic and also likely improve the milk's flavour.
Therefore, this is now where we'll be getting all of our milk from, and also butter, yogurt, eggs and cream: http://www.tomlinsondairies.co.uk/
:cool:
Marco.
Marco, it sounds like you're getting the hang of the moka pot and getting some nice results from it. You are right not to tamp. One could, but only very lightly. Best is what you are doing, and tweaking brew time with grind fineness. I had forgotten you had a grinder, and assumed you were buying pre-ground. As for pre-boiling the water, I suppose it doesn't matter as long as you're not boiling the water during actual brewing itself. Re. your question on brew times, I think it varies depending on the size of your pot. The little ones will be done quicker, obviously. I recall getting good results with a 6 cup pot and a brew time of about 3 to 4 minutes or so. Remember, this isn't like a pressurized machine where you're shooting for 30 seconds.
Good to hear you're enjoying the moka pot!
Cheers, Svend. I am indeed, and thanks again for your advice.
I might try some very light tamping, and see what that does, if anything. If so, I'll report back:)
Marco.
Yeah, a good grinder makes a big difference!
I also agree about the grind sometimes needing adjusted with different types of beans. Some are harder and some softer. Also, I always only grind exactly the quantity I need (measured out), just before I'm about to make coffee, in order to maximise freshness and flavour:)
Btw, in terms of milk (and this is aimed primarily at Justers), I've found a local dairy who deliver their whole milk in bottles, which is reputed to be first-class. The glass bottles will cut down on our use of plastic and also likely improve the milk's flavour.
Therefore, this is now where we'll be getting all of our milk from, and also butter, yogurt, eggs and cream: http://www.tomlinsondairies.co.uk/
:cool:
Marco.Excellent.
Glass is key. Why is tastes better out of glass is a mystery but beer seems to as well.
I only hope their actual milk is good. High probability it will be a lot better than the supermarket I reckon.
There's a load of Moka pot videos on YouTube to learn off. I watched a couple earlier.
These dudes do mine: https://www.milkandmore.co.uk/
Beobloke
14-10-2018, 19:06
Surprised you went for Robusta beans, Marco. They’re generally considered to be the cheap, poor relation and are widely used as the basis of instant coffee (and in the swill masquerading as ‘coffee’ served up by a certain high street chain, allegedly!).
I bought some by accident once and they were vile. The rest went into the bin!
Aye they have a high pyrazine count. Again tho if roasted right they can be good especially in a blend
Excellent.
Glass is key. Why is tastes better out of glass is a mystery but beer seems to as well.
I only hope their actual milk is good. High probability it will be a lot better than the supermarket I reckon.
There's a load of Moka pot videos on YouTube to learn off. I watched a couple earlier.
My guess is that glass taints the taste of liquids less than plastic or tin. We're big 'greenies' too, so losing more plastic is a big plus. That was one of the reasons why I stopped using a pod machine:)
I'm sure that the milk will be excellent, although don't forget that the Calon Wen we're currently buying also comes from a local farm, albeit via a supermarket, so it's not bog-standard milk.
Good idea about Moka pot vids... I did watch some at the beginning, but have since just learned from practical experience. I'll watch some again though, as you never know when you can pick up some good tips!:cool:
Marco.
Surprised you went for Robusta beans, Marco. They’re generally considered to be the cheap, poor relation and are widely used as the basis of instant coffee (and in the swill masquerading as ‘coffee’ served up by a certain high street chain, allegedly!).
I bought some by accident once and they were vile. The rest went into the bin!
They represent only a small percentage of the Coffee Masters blend, Adam. It consists mostly of Arabica beans, from Brazil and Costa Rica. It does make a lovely coffee, but for my tastes needs a bit more of an Arabica hit (simply a case of readjusting the percentages), which is why I'm mixing it with some Lavazza Caffe Espresso:)
Marco.
Cheers, Svend. I am indeed, and thanks again for your advice.
I might try some very light tamping, and see what that does, if anything. If so, I'll report back:)
Marco.
Sounds good Marco. When you get it right it should flow out in a thick syrupy stream that will take a few minutes 'til it's done. If it comes out watery and it's over in seconds then your grind is too coarse.
All this talk of moka pots makes me miss ours. Haven't used one in months, not since vacation trip. Tomorrow's breakfast brew then :)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181017/555be84263eb86ed774f2c10ddeea901.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181017/e7c524d94c1c1c1616814deeca0f3053.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181017/7f3aeb81522373a224513a4f5d0afb10.jpg
That really is *top notch*, mate... I can almost chew it, it looks so unctious and creamy!:eyebrows::thumbsup:
Btw, returning to the milk thing, the company I mentioned before it turns out only supply wholesale, so they put me onto these chaps instead, who do domestic deliveries - check out the great selection of stuff they do, including different types of milk:
https://edwardsdairies.co.uk/yourmoo/v2/productgroups.php
I'll be going for their whole milk, in glass bottles. We also want to try their butter, eggs, cream, yogurt and orange juice. First delivery on Saturday, so looking forward to it!:cool:
Marco.
That really is *top notch*, mate... I can almost chew it, it looks so unctious and creamy!:eyebrows::thumbsup:
Btw, returning to the milk thing, the company I mentioned before it turns out only supply wholesale, so they put me onto these chaps instead, who do domestic deliveries - check out the great selection of stuff they do, including different type of milk:
https://edwardsdairies.co.uk/yourmoo/v2/productgroups.php
I'll be going for their whole milk, in glass bottles. We also want to try their butter, eggs, cream, yogurt and orange juice. First delivery on Saturday, so looking forward to it!:cool:
Marco.
milk bottle of orange juice; that takes me back, as i used to get that up here
I know mate, that's what attracted me to it! I'll let you know what it's like:)
Marco.
Flavour explosion
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181020/0c3d506d8533a71b7569531acc7748c4.jpg
Where's the fallout and smoke?
Where's the fallout and smoke?
Toilet (not photographed):lol:
Indian monsoon coffee
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181021/383b3fa4fe0dae68dc2db07860e13b99.jpg
Bit of a mini monsoon here too
Whale juice
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181023/3200e352a1304faaa784017fdc76dddd.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181027/37822b4dfdbdc85388b719cfb4a75659.jpg
Thaar be coffee
Kidsaten. Ha-so
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181028/1f9b7358997102fe0a19362ac6aea405.jpg
Some epicurean copper
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181029/0c7f625fda202bd7203c4b1cd1a2bfcd.jpg
Nice dark crema
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181029/80a8120df90dd4d853911eb0173389fc.jpg
First one since the last
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181031/20e60359e4892c4950fba25ecf2277b2.jpg
Bright n cheery
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181102/9edbc50f2ab0f35862b2ba28d97c81f9.jpg
Just been catching up on this thread . . . an impressive collection Grant :)
How many cups a day do you average and do you weigh your beans for each brew?
I normally have 2 a day at between 15 - 18g per cup, depending on the bean. Gone over that today though and had 50g - trouble sleeping tonight methinks! :eek:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180907/2a4f2ea8684321f8eb1c5e487577dd79.jpg
Just been catching up on this thread . . . an impressive collection Grant :)
How many cups a day do you average and do you weigh your beans for each brew?
I normally have 2 a day at between 15 - 18g per cup, depending on the bean. Gone over that today though and had 50g - trouble sleeping tonight methinks! :eek:
2 cups most days Tim. usually 2 scoops full of my metal scoop. not weighed it but its the equ of a double espresso amount. it doesnt affect me sleeping will weigh it out for u
26 gm per scoop. Oops that's 52 gm a cup
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181102/f9d5b64682489e3077db85673165db8a.jpg
52g per cup - that's some serious grunt there fella :yay:
Been thinking about different brew methods lately and I think I understand why many espresso drinkers often add milk, they seem to like that punchy flavour hit so it has to be strong coffee if they also like milk? Very imprecise analogy I know, as coffee and how we like can be very complex, as complex as the bean ;)
I prefer it black mostly, but I'm not much of a milk drinker anyway.
Here's an intriguing new product which is tempting me at the moment, the Flair (https://www.flairespresso.com/). It's attracted a lot of interest and even the coffee geeks seem to like it. Somewhat fiddly if you just want a quick cup, but nowt to go wrong or break either and you can take it on your travels. A fully manual La Pavoni in some respects? I like it and at £159 it could be a good alternative to an expensive machine, no milk frothing though.
https://youtu.be/kVONLkXflJ0
This is pretty.
https://youtu.be/_MFugMNBB7I
Retirement, it's one great long coffee break :D
Good to see that Marco has finally got a burr grinder - it's all in the grind ;)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/ad80ed124bfbf6d882219134bcf47ef6.jpg
This one looks nice n mean
Currently, I boil the brew water first, in a kettle, then fill the reservoir in the Moka pot up with boiling water, to just under the little valve (was recommended to do that, in order to speed up the brew process). Is that a good idea? Or is the water better going into the reservoir cold, and slowly heating up to temperature, simply by using the burner?
When the pot hits the burner after that, it's on a medium heat, not high, and pretty soon afterwards the coffee starts to trickle out, then turns into a nice steady stream. It never splutters. What would you say should be the average extraction time, from the pot hitting the burner, to the coffee being ready to drink?
Also, at the moment, I don't tamp the grinds at all. I just fill up the basket and tip it gently back and forth, so that the grinds are evenly spread, leaving about an even 2mm gap at the top of the basket (so not quite full).
So do you think I should tamp the grinds a little, or leave things as they are?:cool:
Marco.
I used to use a Moka pot Marco and experienced some bitterness to start, but was doing it wrong and found the following helped - YMMV, but it sounds like you're pretty much there.
Even fill, not tamped down
Pre-heated water (always fresh, filtered and first boil) and fill to below the valve, as you do
Place on the hob but not a high heat, medium to encourage a gentle extraction. Off the heat as the extraction starts, some actually cool the base with cold water, but I never bothered. What you don't want is a rapid extraction following a rigorous boil in bottom chamber
Keep the pot spotlessly clean, the old wives tales of a seasoned one are actually true, it does change the flavour of the coffee, but it's not an improvement IMO
Serious coffee is an art and science. I'm a rank amateur but have learned the importance of fresh beans, the ratio of coffee to water, extraction time and water temperature. But the grind should never be underestimated, this is where the money should be invested to get good consistent results. You can play with ratios, water temperatures, have the freshest beans, the perfect extraction and put your coffee through the most expensive espresso machine, but if the grind is poor, the end result will be poor.
I found this comparison interesting and the Rancilio Rocky at around £220 is an entry level grinder. It's not uncommon for coffee geeks to have grinders costing 2/3 times more than their espresso machines - bit like the front end in audio. Doesn't matter how good your amp and speakers are, if your source is poor, it'll sound poor ;)
https://youtu.be/zuIOlsdDg_o
Yup, my machine is not high end but as I use a top hand grinder i get great grind every time, that suit my machine. I would prefer to grind it a little finer but the pump cant handle it so you have to work with what you have.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181104/3211f634fcc58fc814fa766b5a0dc951.jpg
Morning pick-me-up
If there's 26g of coffee in there, it should pick you up :D
If there's 26g of coffee in there, it should pick you up :D
52gm in there:eyebrows:
Coffee time again
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181105/02f054bb920b9c56ae32f0c952d53cbd.jpg
Liberdade
05-11-2018, 11:01
Here's an intriguing new product which is tempting me at the moment, the Flair (https://www.flairespresso.com/). It's attracted a lot of interest and even the coffee geeks seem to like it. Somewhat fiddly if you just want a quick cup, but nowt to go wrong or break either and you can take it on your travels. A fully manual La Pavoni in some respects? I like it and at £159 it could be a good alternative to an expensive machine, no milk frothing though.
That looks to be a very good combination of form & function, which might tempt me away from the convenience of Nespresso. Did you (or anyone else) get one, and if so what do you think of it?
I used to use a Moka pot Marco and experienced some bitterness to start, but was doing it wrong and found the following helped - YMMV, but it sounds like you're pretty much there.
Even fill, not tamped down
Pre-heated water (always fresh, filtered and first boil) and fill to below the valve, as you do
Place on the hob but not a high heat, medium to encourage a gentle extraction. Off the heat as the extraction starts, some actually cool the base with cold water, but I never bothered. What you don't want is a rapid extraction following a rigorous boil in bottom chamber
Keep the pot spotlessly clean, the old wives tales of a seasoned one are actually true, it does change the flavour of the coffee, but it's not an improvement IMO
Serious coffee is an art and science. I'm a rank amateur but have learned the importance of fresh beans, the ratio of coffee to water, extraction time and water temperature. But the grind should never be underestimated, this is where the money should be invested to get good consistent results. You can play with ratios, water temperatures, have the freshest beans, the perfect extraction and put your coffee through the most expensive espresso machine, but if the grind is poor, the end result will be poor.
I found this comparison interesting and the Rancilio Rocky at around £220 is an entry level grinder. It's not uncommon for coffee geeks to have grinders costing 2/3 times more than their espresso machines - bit like the front end in audio. Doesn't matter how good your amp and speakers are, if your source is poor, it'll sound poor ;)
https://youtu.be/zuIOlsdDg_o
Excellent stuff, Timbo! Have noted all your tips, so thanks. One other thing I do (which I saw on a YT video) is to stir the coffee in the upper chamber, just before serving it, to infuse all the flavours, which I find subtly improves results:)
Also another one, which I haven't tried yet, is to use sparkling mineral water, instead of tap water (for the brew)... Apparently it imparts some crema to the finish. I'll be trying that soon and reporting back.
I've also been having great results with the full-cream milk I've had delivered from the local dairy, which quite simply is in a different league from supermarket stuff, no matter how good! The cappuccinos I've been making have just been stunning.
The rest of the stuff I've been getting from the dairy, such as butter, cream and yogurt - all local produce, has also been excellent. I thoroughly recommend folks to seek out their local dairy and get local fresh produce delivered direct. It's often cheaper than stuff in supermarkets and the quality is far superior, plus the convenience of having it delivered direct to your door is fab!
I've just bought this Bialetti Venus Moka pot, which suits induction hobs better than the one I'd been using previously:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/ENrtLe.png
Works fab and looks great! Will take some pics tomorrow, to show the results I've been getting:cool:
Marco.
It's a six-cup one I've got, mate. Bought it from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/6-Cup-Bialetti-Venus-Espresso-Stainless/dp/B00067WCM6
It's really fab!:cool:
Marco.
mightymonoped
05-11-2018, 21:30
I’ve got one of them (to replace my old aluminium one which has camping duties).
Also had this little single cup for ages. [emoji4]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181105/9e13dd7e32ea04bd3d5c58acd2a66d39.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181106/dea390f5846b60b5020e6e7c055d1a43.jpg
Boy I need this
Lol... Craving a caffeine hit?:eyebrows:
A cheeky wee Macchiato this morning, with fresh Welsh dairy milk:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/9KbrGn.jpg
Marco.
Better coke than coffee?
Mostly yes. Watch the price, though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181106/a3b21ee1ce03cacd5b5b62f2664f24e9.jpg
Lol... Craving a caffeine hit?:eyebrows:
A cheeky wee Macchiato this morning, with fresh Welsh dairy milk:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/9KbrGn.jpg
Marco.Real milk respect.
Trust your local milkman.
That looks to be a very good combination of form & function, which might tempt me away from the convenience of Nespresso. Did you (or anyone else) get one, and if so what do you think of it?
Never tried one myself, but am tempted. I'm more of a pour over naked coffee drinker than an espresso drinker though. I rarely drink milk variant coffees either, so think it might up as a piece of art, rather than a coffee maker. Maybe do some research here if it interests you?
https://coffeeforums.co.uk
That's a good looking Bialetti Marco - they do make good coffee when you get it right. Never thought to give it a stir, but makes sense. I use filtered tap water . . . sparkling eh? Intriguing, that's a new one on me. Not used one for awhile though, I'm into pour over and still use an aeropress most of the time. Got a good grinder now and always use fresh beans. That kind of ticks all my boxes really, I spent sometime proving to myself just how important the grind was and I need no further convincing.
I'm not much of a milk drinker these days, but whenever I do buy milk it's always whole milk, semi-skimmed was/is a marketing con and we fell for it hook line and sinker. I don't do anything low fat either, tastes like shite so what's the point, just have less if the fat content is a concern?
:D
This I find illuminating too, but people still buy it by the bucket load. Each to their own, but I prefer my food not to sound (or taste) like it was manufactured in a laboratory. Needless to say I only buy butter and always have ;)
https://livinginthelighttoday.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/butter-ingredients.jpg
I’ve got one of them (to replace my old aluminium one which has camping duties).
Also had this little single cup for ages. [emoji4]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181105/9e13dd7e32ea04bd3d5c58acd2a66d39.jpg
Love that little single cupper! We have one also, and it makes a great cup. I still use ours when I just want a quick shot and don't want to wait for the big machine to heat up.
I think we must have at least 10 moka pots, including a beautiful Alessi 9090 that was a wedding gift.
Has anyone ever tried a Neopolitan flip pot maker? We have one and it makes wonderful coffee. A bit less intense than moka pot, but stronger than pour-over. Delicious! And easy to use.
More info here:
https://www.napoliunplugged.com/the-neapolitan-flip-over-coffee-pot.html
https://www.illy.com/en-us/company/coffee/how-prepare-napoletana-coffee
Ooh caffeine
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181107/84c3506bfae5cc84f7db3631a162dda8.jpg
That's a good looking Bialetti Marco - they do make good coffee when you get it right. Never thought to give it a stir, but makes sense. I use filtered tap water . . . sparkling eh? Intriguing, that's a new one on me. Not used one for awhile though, I'm into pour over and still use an aeropress most of the time. Got a good grinder now and always use fresh beans. That kind of ticks all my boxes really, I spent sometime proving to myself just how important the grind was and I need no further convincing.
I'm not much of a milk drinker these days, but whenever I do buy milk it's always whole milk, semi-skimmed was/is a marketing con and we fell for it hook line and sinker. I don't do anything low fat either, tastes like shite so what's the point, just have less if the fat content is a concern?
:D
This I find illuminating too, but people still buy it by the bucket load. Each to their own, but I prefer my food not to sound (or taste) like it was manufactured in a laboratory. Needless to say I only buy butter and always have ;)
https://livinginthelighttoday.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/butter-ingredients.jpg
Ha - we're on exactly the same wavelength there, Tim!:D
It's not necessarily what's in things that's bad for you, but the quantity you eat and how often you eat them!! Life's too short to consume boring, processed 'diet'/reduced calorie shite, under the gross misconception that it's 'healthier' for you. Far better to eat the correct quantities of proper (real) food and exercise regularly. There are also 'good' fats and bad fats. The saturated variety are the ones to avoid.
The Venus is great mate, been using it for a few days now to excellent effect. I tried sparkling water this morning, and it definitely does create a form of 'crema', which you'll see when the coffee starts bubbling out the spout in the top chamber, rather more than usual.
However, it's not proper crema, and quickly disappears once poured into a cup. I think it has a cleaner taste though, than ordinary tap water, and the stuff we get here is about as pure as it gets, coming straight off the Berwyn mountains. Give it a go and see what you think:)
Marco.
Lol... Craving a caffeine hit?:eyebrows:
A cheeky wee Macchiato this morning, with fresh Welsh dairy milk:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/9KbrGn.jpg
Marco.
Thats a UK Macchiato. It would be a Cappuccino in Italy. I had Macchiatos last year in Italy and they were half that size.:)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/4599b51cc89cb3d7fc82ce6d992d86c8.jpg
Yummy
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/4599b51cc89cb3d7fc82ce6d992d86c8.jpg
Yummy
It was very nice... that was a Barundi one
Thats a UK Macchiato. It would be a Cappuccino in Italy. I had Macchiatos last year in Italy and they were half that size.:)
Lol... Well I'm in the UK, and I like a generous cup!:D
However, there's no way that would be considered as a traditional cappuccino in Italy, as the cup's too small. And when I say 'traditional', I mean the type enjoyed in Italian households, not trendy caffes!
The idea originated from poor families not wanting to waste any bread, and also with their strict Catholic religion, bread was considered as sacred (the body of Christ). Therefore, when it became a little hard and stale, they would dip the bread into their milky coffee in the morning, to soften it, which in reality was more of a latte than a cappuccino, with a higher ratio of milk to coffee.
Now I'm talking about a thick slice of crusty home-baked Italian bread (think 'doorstop' sized), so imagine trying to fit that inside the cup shown in my picture... No, what you need is this:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/r6sZId.jpg
*That* is a cappuccino!:exactly:
Should've filled it up, though.....;)
Marco.
Lol... Well I'm in the UK, and I like a generous cup!:D
However, there's no way that would be considered as a traditional cappuccino in Italy, as the cup's too small. And when I say 'traditional', I mean the type enjoyed in Italian households, not trendy caffes!
The idea originated from poor families not wanting to waste any bread, and also with their strict Catholic religion, bread was considered as sacred (the body of Christ). Therefore, when it became a little hard and stale, they would dip the bread into their milky coffee in the morning, to soften it, which in reality was more of a latte than a cappuccino, with a higher ratio of milk to coffee.
Now I'm talking about a thick slice of crusty home-baked Italian bread (think 'doorstop' sized), so imagine trying to fit that inside the cup shown in my picture... No, what you need is this:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/r6sZId.jpg
*That* is a cappuccino!:exactly:
Should've filled it up, though.....;)
Marco.
Nice one! Not sure if you know Marco but as a Food Technologist I develop products for all the Large UK coffee shops so I am quite knowledgeable about coffee. However I would say none of the coffee in the large chains really has any resemblance to the size and quality of the cafes on the continent especially Italy, Spain and France.
Interesting mate that you're a food technologist. Nice one. I completely agree with your views on the quality of coffee served, and cafes here, compared with in the countries you mention - but it's getting better:)
Folks like Grant are forcing up the standards!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Lol. Gotta keep standards high
How's this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181108/f9da3da847f2e67f7e119e4cdeeb307a.jpg
WESTLOWER
08-11-2018, 16:41
Interesting mate that you're a food technologist. Nice one. I completely agree with your views on the quality of coffee served, and cafes here, compared with in the countries you mention - but it's getting better:)
Folks like Grant are forcing up the standards!:eyebrows:
Marco.
I think the vital point in James's input was 'coffee in the large chains' ...
Coffee in the independents, is in general, Top Notch! (and yes i've travelled extensively in Italy, France etc.)
Well, it is in the mighty Metropolis, albeit outrageously bloody overpriced. Are there good coffee outlets in The Valleys Marco? :sheep: .... :sofa:
and yes, Grant's offerings always look superb!
I always try to seek out the independents rather than chains. As coffee as a social pastime/pleasure on the high street has gained momentum, so have the number of great coffee establishments, there are some really superb independent roaster's and seller's now.
We still lag some way behind Europe, but it's pleasing to see the rise. Good coffee isn't just for hipsters anymore :)
Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk
I think the vital point in James's input was 'coffee in the large chains' ...
Coffee in the independents, is in general, Top Notch! (and yes i've travelled extensively in Italy, France etc.)
Well, it is in the mighty Metropolis, albeit outrageously bloody overpriced. Are there good coffee outlets in The Valleys Marco? :sheep: .... :sofa:
Hi Adam,
Some independents here can be top-notch, but they're not all like that, and I wouldn't touch any of the chains with a bargepole. We have a very good independent coffee house in Wrexham, called Lot 11, see here: https://lot-11-cafe-and-hideout.business.site/
The quality of the coffee and brunches is excellent. However, the best espresso I've tasted in this area (throughout Cheshire and North Wales), by a country mile (as it's super-strong and has a lovely thick orangey/yellow crema on top, just like you get in Italy), is served in our local Portuguese restaurant, which I think says it all!;)
For me, the continentals still make the best coffee, simply because it's more to my tastes and what I've grown up with:)
Marco.
For me, the continentals still make the best coffee, simply because it's more to my tastes and what I've grown up with:)
Marco.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, espresso maybe, but there's so many more ways to enjoy coffee ;)
Think he meant to his taste. I quite like African and Indian stuff. Not sure that's Euro coffee. More UK Hipster for African.
Surprised how much I like the monsoon beans. They smell ghastly but taste great
Interesting mate that you're a food technologist. Nice one. I completely agree with your views on the quality of coffee served, and cafes here, compared with in the countries you mention - but it's getting better:)
Folks like Grant are forcing up the standards!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Grant is a star and I follow his barista adventures weekly. There is certainly some great coffee out there and as has been mentioned some of the independents are doing some great stuff. I visit some large coffee shows over the year as part of my job which is quite nice and I see some great stuff. The whole culture around coffee has been growing massively over the last 10 years or so.
I have quite a few products out there with the major chains but not sure if I can mention them publicly as I am probably bound by some none disclosure agreement. However this is now my major area of work as a technologist some I am kind of immersed in it all.
Personally I still feel the continental culture and approach around coffee and especially in Italy is the benchmark and most of the coffee out there seems to be in independent cafes. The large chains have found it an almost impossible market to move into although Starbucks has opened an absolutely amazing coffee shop in Milano.
For what its worth my all time favourite coffee is Lavazza's Crema e Aroma £13 for 1kg off Amazon.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, espresso maybe, but there's so many more ways to enjoy coffee...
Yeah, as Grant says, the key is in the bit you didn't quote;)
I like the smooth, rich flavour of pure Arabica beans, which is pretty much the 'go to' choice for espresso in Italian caffès. I also love Turkish coffee, as it's super-strong. That's what's lacking in most espressos served in coffee shops around the UK. The flavour is often very good, but it's usually watered down for British palates.
For me, a good espresso, with just the right strength and thickness/colour of crema, is the ultimate expression of the coffee art. It should be served in small quantities, in a traditional espresso cup, and be so strong/thick that it sticks to the sides of the cup (making creamy rings around the sides) when you drink it, rather like Guinness. Justers posted a picture of an almost perfect one earlier.
Anything with milk in it is somewhat frowned upon by coffee connoisseurs (of which I am not one - yet), rather like putting mixers in whisky....
*However*, that doesn't dismiss the worth or enjoyment derived from drinking a milky coffee, which I enjoy very much myself - but only in the morning. No true Italian has cappuccino, latte (or any coffee with milk) after 12 noon. At that point, it's espresso all the way!:cool:
Marco.
Beobloke
09-11-2018, 07:49
Starbucks has opened an absolutely amazing coffee shop in Milano.
.
Now, there are two words you rarely see in a sentence together - “amazing” and “Starbucks”. Unless of course other words like “bad” and “how they get away with serving up such swill” are involved!
;o)
Personally I still feel the continental culture and approach around coffee and especially in Italy is the benchmark and most of the coffee out there seems to be in independent cafes. The large chains have found it an almost impossible market to move into although Starbucks has opened an absolutely amazing coffee shop in Milano.
For what its worth my all time favourite coffee is Lavazza's Crema e Aroma £13 for 1kg off Amazon.
I agree, although the Spanish, Portuguese, Turks and Austrians aren't too shabby at it either! However, for me, the whole experience you get, along with the quality of coffee (and food/pastries) served in traditional Italian caffès, such as shown below in the Sciascia Caffè in Rome, is where it's *at*. Quite simply, they do it with a level of love, style and panache that is second to none:
http://sciasciacaffe1919.it/
Make sure you play the video!
I also agree about Crema e Aroma. It's excellent, although I'm currently experimenting with others. If I'm to become more experienced with coffee (and consider myself as any kind of connoisseur), I need to familiarise myself with various different beans, to get a proper handle on all the different flavours, which I will be doing in due course.
At the moment however, I just want to discover my 'go to' favourites, so I can always return to something I really enjoy!:cool:
Marco.
From the Sciascia caffè website:
"Il caffè, per esser buono, deve essere nero come la notte, caldo come l'inferno e dolce come l'amore."
Translated into English: "Coffee, to be good, needs to be black like night, hot as an inferno and sweet like love."
Only Italians can make coffee sound *that* sexy!!:D
Marco.
Made a mess of this one but crema is spot on
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181109/e6d58f064223d1c120bb0632f5f6cf86.jpg
Yeah mate, that looks great!:thumbsup:
Marco.
Now that I do agree with Marco regarding the whole experience on the continent, Italy especially. Most everything about how they do coffee is different, cakes and pastries too, we do put up with some very mediocre fare from the chains. I think there is a tide of change though, with more and more independents (and roasters) popping up all the time. That's very welcome.
I'm quite a hipster coffee fan, although some of the brews I've had can be too light and delicate, as I like black, strong and hot too.
When I get moved again and finally sorted, a fancy espresso machine will be high up my list of must haves. I'm rather partial to these
https://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/11361_l1-l-r-sidebyside03-l1040825-01-februari-2017.jpg
The Londinium R on the left - I love lever pull style machines :)
Now that I do agree with Marco regarding the whole experience on the continent, Italy especially. Most everything about how they do coffee is different, cakes and pastries too, we do put up with some very mediocre fare from the chains. I think there is a tide of change though, with more and more independents (and roasters) popping up all the time. That's very welcome.
I'm quite a hipster coffee fan, although some of the brews I've had can be too light and delicate, as I like black, strong and hot too.
When I get moved again and finally sorted, a fancy espresso machine will be high up my list of must haves. I'm rather partial to these
https://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/11361_l1-l-r-sidebyside03-l1040825-01-februari-2017.jpg
The Londinium R on the left - I love lever pull style machines :)
I'll have to get a new one myself soon i think. mine is still working but its showing its age, and if you dont know its peculiarities it dont work so well. :eyebrows: wont be an uber expensive one tho. dont think they are worth it, even if i could afford one unless your making a lot of the stuff.
Xmas is coming so the family may well chip in with cash for pressies
Mine was expensive, but comes with stainless steel boilers etc.
It is a long term investment for me, as I should never have to replace it.
Mine was expensive, but comes with stainless steel boilers etc.
It is a long term investment for me, as I should never have to replace it.
That's my MO too Cagey, once I get one that's it, I don't ever want to have to replace it. I'll expect it to outlive me and like audio, I don't really enjoy box swapping . . . far too stressful ;)
Now, there are two words you rarely see in a sentence together - “amazing” and “Starbucks”. Unless of course other words like “bad” and “how they get away with serving up such swill” are involved!
;o)
The coffee shop itself is stunning but as you say not sure about the coffee!
I agree, although the Spanish, Portuguese, Turks and Austrians aren't too shabby at it either! However, for me, the whole experience you get, along with the quality of coffee (and food/pastries) served in traditional Italian caffès, such as shown below in the Sciascia Caffè in Rome, is where it's *at*. Quite simply, they do it with a level of love, style and panache that is second to none:
http://sciasciacaffe1919.it/
Make sure you play the video!
I also agree about Crema e Aroma. It's excellent, although I'm currently experimenting with others. If I'm to become more experienced with coffee (and consider myself as any kind of connoisseur), I need to familiarise myself with various different beans, to get a proper handle on all the different flavours, which I will be doing in due course.
At the moment however, I just want to discover my 'go to' favourites, so I can always return to something I really enjoy!:cool:
Marco.
Thanks for posting that Marco, i will get our company to order some of their coffee asap!:thumbsup:
Big cup
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181109/f3ef272c33984547de234dc7d33628b5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181109/0b199ff3218d691c25d0c66c8f614c7b.jpg
Pretty in pink. Goes with my slip
Here is a double espresso ready for some milk....
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4867/30858505917_7172088c9c_z_d.jpg
And with added milk and foam in an attempt of latte art in the style of "le coq de France"
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4851/30858506227_0d7c0a57d9_z_d.jpg
The coffee is roasted by a local company, run solely by women. It's a mix of Brazilian arabica and I have to say it is quite nice.
I am really tempted to use the local company and try a few of their other offerings.
Here is a double espresso ready for some milk....
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4867/30858505917_7172088c9c_z_d.jpg
And with added milk and foam in an attempt of latte art in the style of "le coq de France"
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4851/30858506227_0d7c0a57d9_z_d.jpg
The coffee is roasted by a local company, run solely by women. It's a mix of Brazilian arabica and I have to say it is quite nice.
I am really tempted to use the local company and try a few of their other offerings.
Nice crema!
Alas I don't know what la coq is. Good attempt tho. Pouring is difficult
Have you tried this coffee Grant, it really is excellent with the most amazing thick luxurious crema. We have tried so many coffees in the office from all over the world but this has been the best. Very rich but subtle and super smooth, no bitterness whatsoever.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lavazza-Crema-Aroma-Coffee-Beans/dp/B003CLYW44
Have you tried this coffee Grant, it really is excellent with the most amazing thick luxurious crema. We have tried so many coffees in the office from all over the world but this has been the best. Very rich but subtle and super smooth, no bitterness whatsoever.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lavazza-Crema-Aroma-Coffee-Beans/dp/B003CLYW44
Oddly I was looking at that one yesterday Not pulled trigger as Ive lots of stock at moment
Have you tried this coffee Grant, it really is excellent with the most amazing thick luxurious crema. We have tried so many coffees in the office from all over the world but this has been the best. Very rich but subtle and super smooth, no bitterness whatsoever.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lavazza-Crema-Aroma-Coffee-Beans/dp/B003CLYW44
I may try that one.
Out of interest, do you use a flat or conical burr grinder?
It’s a cockerel.
Just found it
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181109/1ad7ed41b1869e1eb2678cbb07b8a0ac.jpg
Pretty ambitious At least it's flowing lines
Well, if you don’t try.....
I had no hope with the thick mousse.
Indeed. Nothing ventured as they say. Practice the technique is really the only way. Getting good pouring foam is trickiest
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/bd62b655a5e0fd5dab7632521a743752.jpg
Tastes great
Ordered a bigger cup for myself. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/6fa1d4f60d4c1767cdeddc3046105468.jpg
In pic it looks a good size.
But...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/21ab64ac68da6d493fee026003ffc3ec.jpg
It's a tad bigger than expected. [emoji23]
100g shots now then Grant :lol:
Lol - you do like your girly colours, darling! Is that to match your floral panties?:D
Marco.
Lol - you do like your girly colours, darling! Is that to match your floral panties?:D
Marco.
That's it in one ducky.
Tonight's effort
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/6ffa79846a03e347297fbb8eddc38a3d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/f3fdce810f60c1b1ccd6f43ee891b8c4.jpg
This morning I tried to do a rabbit coming out of a magicians hat to impress my daughter. It ended up as a blob...
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4898/45811459001_7ffec92807_z_d.jpg
This afternoon, a new coffee was born.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4878/44898592915_2eb8e316de_z_d.jpg
Two more espressos and my Brazilian arabica blend has been finished.
I am now onto a blend called "The Coffee shop" with is also a 100% south American arabica blend.
https://youtu.be/OLa4Ts5t0Bo
Coffee so long to sides all the way down
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181110/0a3d9e0b227c966bff5527bd5731e414.jpg
That's exactly how it should be, rich thick crema, stuck to the walls of the cup all the way down, and staying there right to the end. Nice! :thumbsup:
Kevin, some of yours a looking good, too! Could you do me a favour though, and take a picture of your next coffee inside a plain white cup? It's just that your crema looks rather browny in colour, instead of yellowy orange, as it should be, and I think it's probably the cup you're using making it look darker than it actually is:)
Marco.
had 2 this afternoon. both good.
That's exactly how it should be, rich thick crema, stuck to the walls of the cup all the way down, and staying there right to the end. Nice! :thumbsup:
Kevin, some of yours a looking good, too! Could you do me a favour though, and take a picture of your next coffee inside a plain white cup? It's just that your crema looks rather browny in colour, instead of yellowy orange, as it should be, and I think it's probably the cup you're using making it look darker than it actually is:)
Marco.
There is a picture here - https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?54775-The-Coffeehouse-Baristi-Barista-Bariste&p=1029148#post1029148
To me, the crema looks fine. It is probably just the lighting (no flash).
think its just the light making it look brown
There is a picture here - https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?54775-The-Coffeehouse-Baristi-Barista-Bariste&p=1029148#post1029148
To me, the crema looks fine. It is probably just the lighting (no flash).
Yeah I saw that picture... Still looks brown there. Like Grant says, it could be the light. Would still like to see another coffee though, inside a cup with a plain white inner:)
Marco.
Yeah I saw that picture... Still looks brown there. Like Grant says, it could be the light. Would still like to see another coffee though, inside a cup with a plain white inner:)
Marco.
In my opinion, Crema should be brown.
A few other people share that opinion as well....
https://www.liminicoffee.co.uk/article_crema.html
https://www.goodfood.com.au/drinks/clues-in-the-crema-what-can-it-tell-you-about-your-coffee-20131101-2wssc
https://coffeeorbust.com/what-is-espresso-crema/
https://sweetmarias.com/espresso-crema.php
The last link is very good.
If it is not the colour of the Crema in my photo, then you need to look at your coffee making process. :eek:
Lol - I don't get any crema, daftee, as I'm using a Moka pot. I'm judging between yours and Grant's, oh and also the 1000s of espressos I've had all over Europe so far, which have always had yellowy-orange cremas;)
Yes, there's some brown in them too, but not muddy like yours - sorry... I'm sure it tastes great though, which is all that matters. Plus, it might also be down to the beans you're using:)
MArco.
Grant's cremas are consistently good, but this is about the best one I've seen, which Justers posted:
Mostly yes. Watch the price, though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181106/a3b21ee1ce03cacd5b5b62f2664f24e9.jpg
Yes, there's brown there, but it looks quite different from your crema, Kevin. It's the layering of all the different colour shades, which makes it look so good.
Marco.
I'm going to post a picture of my first coffee of the day tomorrow :D
This I think is a good example (I didn't pull it by the way).
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4548/37571232774_6808f802b4_z.jpg
Yeah I saw that picture... Still looks brown there. Like Grant says, it could be the light. Would still like to see another coffee though, inside a cup with a plain white inner:)
Marco.
That is not going to happen, as the one pictured was almost the last of the Brazilian beans I bought locally.
I am now on to something else, and the Crema will be different.
Good morning world coffee
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/c1301a8efe65412187627c7091d8a4e6.jpg
indian monsoon.... its come out brown too as there was little light so flash hit it
That is not going to happen, as the one pictured was almost the last of the Brazilian beans I bought locally.
I am now on to something else, and the Crema will be different.
Yeah I think that's part of it, Kev. Don't get me wrong though, I'm sure your coffee tastes fab!:)
Marco.
I'm going to post a picture of my first coffee of the day tomorrow :D
This I think is a good example (I didn't pull it by the way).
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4548/37571232774_6808f802b4_z.jpg
Yeah, that's spot on:thumbsup:
Marco.
Lol - I don't get any crema, daftee, as I'm using a Moka pot. I'm judging between yours and Grant's, oh and also the 1000s of espressos I've had all over Europe so far, which have always had yellowy-orange cremas;)
Yes, there's some brown in them too, but not muddy like yours - sorry... I'm sure it tastes great though, which is all that matters. Plus, it might also be down to the beans you're using:)
MArco.
I have a Bialetti stove top coffee pot but although these are good at making coffee the coffee they produce is way too strong. Ultimately a proper 9 -10bar coffee machine is better as the pressure is needed to extract the crema. A lot of coffee machines are up tp 15 bar pressure which is a bit too much for expresso. I was trained at Costa HQ and interestingly I had to calibrate the coffee grinder to get the exact grind size in order to get the flow rate correct on the coffee machine to deliver a given amount of expresso in a certain time.
Coffee grind size is very important to the flavour and quality of expresso produced on any machine as it determines flow rate and ultimately crema. Crema again is determined by machine water pressure through the coffee. Crema is also affected by the bean quality, type and roasting process. When you start factoring in all the technical aspects of coffee there is way more than the general public can imagine.
My special area of interest however as a technologist is Cocoa. This is just as infinite in variability and quality as coffee and has a very interesting process which also determines colour and flavour and is quite complex. I have a warehouse downstairs where I work which has about 50 X 25Kg sacks of different cocoas all of which are very different.
Coffee maybe even more varied and when you take into account variety, natural variation of coffee type, process, manufacture and then actual making coffee through a machine it is infinite.
Interestingly there was an assessment of coffee machines made recently. The best is a barista type machine followed by bean to cup machines and Nespresso style machines. Finally Filter coffee systems and Stove top pots came last in the quality of coffee produced.
Instant coffee was not really classed as acceptable.:)
When you start factoring in all the technical aspects of coffee there is way more than the general public can imagine.
You got that right for sure, trying to get the same cup everyday can be quite a challenge - even with scales, good grinders and thermometers! Good coffee is both art and science.
Personally I (and many others) rate a Technivorm Moccamaster ahead of any Nespresso type machine, unless you just mean trying to produce an espresso type shot from a home machine, as it can't do that.
I do find a Moka pot too bold flavour wise and haven't used one for quite a few years, but I don't drink my coffee with milk. If you add frothed milk and like it bold, I think a Moka pot is pretty good at what it does, costs nothing, it's simple and lasts for ever. I'd take that over any Nespresso maker and as you say, instant coffee just isn't acceptable ;)
if you get the milk even half right and decent extraction on a double shot then a large latte etc will give you a good drink with a decent hit. Biggest issue with milk is starting with it cold enough then introducing enough air but not too much, and if its cold enough you get enough time to make the silky stuff before you burn it flavour wise.
Shots are temp and grind... a good pid will sort the temp, while the grind will always depend on machine and how you tamp.
Allso cleaning everything every day and warming the head etc should be done before starting. every bean type will grind different too, just to add complexity :doh:
its harder than setting up a ortofon black:D
One thing I do know about coffee is the more I explore and learn, the more I realise how little I know.
An interesting insight into what lengths a pro goes to before serving espresso - Tim Wendelboe is a past World Barista Champion.
https://youtu.be/NPp0fpnH_0A
You got that right for sure, trying to get the same cup everyday can be quite a challenge - even with scales, good grinders and thermometers! Good coffee is both art and science.
Personally I (and many others) rate a Technivorm Moccamaster ahead of any Nespresso type machine, unless you just mean trying to produce an espresso type shot from a home machine, as it can't do that.
I do find a Moka pot too bold flavour wise and haven't used one for quite a few years, but I don't drink my coffee with milk. If you add frothed milk and like it bold, I think a Moka pot is pretty good at what it does, costs nothing, it's simple and lasts for ever. I'd take that over any Nespresso maker and as you say, instant coffee just isn't acceptable ;)
Yes there are better machines than the Nespresso, although I read somewhere 500 top restaurants use them for their expresso coffee! Pod coffee is very restricted too the quality and throw of coffee used. Barista machine way better but like you said Tim factoring in all the variables its a bit of an art. A good Barista who makes the stuff day in day out really knows his stuff.
Milk foaming is such an art to produce just the right bubble size. Milk is generally heated to 140o F in the coffee shops to ensure the coffee is not overheated. The art of foaming milk is tricky but all the coffee shops generally use full fat milk or higher which helps a great deal to produce milk foam. I was trained by a beautiful Italian lady barista to foam milk. The steam nozzle should be just below the top of the milk in metal jug tilted at an angle. The milk should not only froth but move in a circular motion around the jug. Knowing when to stop is easy if you have a thermometer but a good barista knows exactly by look and feel.
if you get the milk even half right and decent extraction on a double shot then a large latte etc will give you a good drink with a decent hit. Biggest issue with milk is starting with it cold enough then introducing enough air but not too much, and if its cold enough you get enough time to make the silky stuff before you burn it flavour wise.
Shots are temp and grind... a good pid will sort the temp, while the grind will always depend on machine and how you tamp.
Allso cleaning everything every day and warming the head etc should be done before starting. every bean type will grind different too, just to add complexity :doh:
its harder than setting up a ortofon black:D
One of the tricks on a barista machine is to leave the group heads on the machine one you have made the coffee. This keeps the machine at the best temperature. You will know when the coffee is at the right grind when the flow looks like a mouses tail!;)
Setting up a 2M black is way easier!:lol:
One of the tricks on a barista machine is to leave the group heads on the machine one you have made the coffee. This keeps the machine at the best temperature. You will know when the coffee is at the right grind when the flow looks like a mouses tail!;)
Setting up a 2M black is way easier!:lol:
mouses tail lol i like that... i usually think of honey in summertime
I do find a Moka pot too bold flavour wise and haven't used one for quite a few years, but I don't drink my coffee with milk. If you add frothed milk and like it bold, I think a Moka pot is pretty good at what it does, costs nothing, it's simple and lasts for ever. I'd take that over any Nespresso maker and as you say, instant coffee just isn't acceptable ;)
Lol, now you see that comment, along with Jim's above, proves exactly what I said earlier about the tendency in coffee shops here to serve espresso weaker (than Italians would drink it), to cater for the British palate!;)
Fundamentally, Moka pots do not make coffee that is "way too strong", unless your idea of such doesn't match that of 100s of thousands of Italians, who've been using them to make coffee for nearly a century!!:D
Moka pots, at least the way I've been using them, produce just the right strength of coffee, replicated by a professional machine, without the crema (due to the lack of pressure in comparison), i.e. if you took an espresso of the strength typically served in coffee shops in Italy, and scooped off the crema, the liquid that's left is pretty much what a Moka pot makes, although slightly thicker.
So if you guys find the flavour "too bold" or "way too strong", then blame your unsophisticated palates, not the Moka pot!:ner:
Unless you're trying to say that generations of Italians, who invented them and have been using them for decades, are wrong...? Trust me, they'd laugh at you if you told them that!:lol:
Marco.
Italians; what do they know about Coffee.... Get some nescafe down you ;):spew:
I have a Bialetti stove top coffee pot but although these are good at making coffee the coffee they produce is way too strong. Ultimately a proper 9 -10bar coffee machine is better as the pressure is needed to extract the crema. A lot of coffee machines are up tp 15 bar pressure which is a bit too much for expresso. I was trained at Costa HQ and interestingly I had to calibrate the coffee grinder to get the exact grind size in order to get the flow rate correct on the coffee machine to deliver a given amount of expresso in a certain time.
Coffee grind size is very important to the flavour and quality of expresso produced on any machine as it determines flow rate and ultimately crema. Crema again is determined by machine water pressure through the coffee. Crema is also affected by the bean quality, type and roasting process. When you start factoring in all the technical aspects of coffee there is way more than the general public can imagine.
My special area of interest however as a technologist is Cocoa. This is just as infinite in variability and quality as coffee and has a very interesting process which also determines colour and flavour and is quite complex. I have a warehouse downstairs where I work which has about 50 X 25Kg sacks of different cocoas all of which are very different.
Coffee maybe even more varied and when you take into account variety, natural variation of coffee type, process, manufacture and then actual making coffee through a machine it is infinite.
Interestingly there was an assessment of coffee machines made recently. The best is a barista type machine followed by bean to cup machines and Nespresso style machines. Finally Filter coffee systems and Stove top pots came last in the quality of coffee produced.
Instant coffee was not really classed as acceptable.:)
Interesting stuff, Jim, so thanks for sharing, even if we disagree on the "way too strong" thing;)
Marco [just about to make a cup of 'tar' with his Moka pot:D]
Interesting stuff, Jim, so thanks for sharing, even if we disagree on the "way too strong" thing;)
Marco [just about to make a cup of 'tar' with his Moka pot:D]
Like HiFi mate, coffee is an individual experience and I appreciate everyone has their own likes and dislikes. There is no wrong way if it appeals to you.
I personally actually like coffee done in a filter pot - the type you plunge, as you get the full blooded flavour of the coffee but unfortunately no crema.
Pulled a nice single espresso
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/4f38b265f5d3382c8b40243fdcf665c1.jpg
Pulled a nice single espresso
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/4f38b265f5d3382c8b40243fdcf665c1.jpg
That looks bang on Grant.
I'm somewhat grateful that I enjoy a clean tasting cup of coffee without milk. If I preferred espresso, cappuccino and latte, I know my OCD personality would be in overdrive and I'd be drooling over £2,000+ prosumer machines - fretting about getting the balance just right, but rarely achieving it! I do fancy a good machine, but wonder how much I'd actually use it?
Here's a home professional for you, a blindfold latte from grind to art - I love it (and I have the ladies permission to post it here) :D
https://youtu.be/m39yS8PsoK4
Like HiFi mate, coffee is an individual experience and I appreciate everyone has their own likes and dislikes. There is no wrong way if it appeals to you.
I personally actually like coffee done in a filter pot - the type you plunge, as you get the full blooded flavour of the coffee but unfortunately no crema.
Yup, totally agree. I mistakenly thought your comments were given from your position as a coffee professional, rather than simply reflecting your own personal taste, which is fine:)
I also like cafetière coffee too, but ultimately prefer the greater intensity of flavour you get from a Moka pot, or professional, pressurised machine.
Marco.
Pulled a nice single espresso
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/4f38b265f5d3382c8b40243fdcf665c1.jpg
Yeah, lovely, and not too 'brown' either!:eyebrows: (soz, Kev).
Orangey-brown (slightly ochre), thick crema for me is 'the one'.
Marco.
more light in kitchen as it faces south. livingroom needs lights on, as its not a nice day, but, yes its a nice shot with very creamy top. getting a handle on it now.:)
Here's what I've just made in the Bialetti:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/heAsrt.jpg
First, the lovely black liquor, bubbling its way through gently.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/mPqbuh.jpg
Then poured into my 'bath-sized' cappuccino cup.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/tXQaX1.jpg
A little hot frothy milk added, just to show the colour of the coffee before it's covered up.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/921/ON2FYN.jpg
The finished article - and it tasted fab!:cool:
Marco.
So if you guys find the flavour "too bold" or "way too strong", then blame your sissy-delicate palates
Or one could say 'more refined palates' - I mean, putting milk in coffee and therefore destroying all the delicate flavours, complexity and the many hours of toil to produce that flavour.
As involved as HiFi like Jim says ;)
(perhaps the wrong choice of word for Moka Pots though, exchange strong for bitter)
Or one could say 'more refined palates' - I mean, putting milk in coffee and therefore destroying all the delicate flavours, complexity and the many hours of toil to produce that flavour.
Lol - are you saying that Italians, who've turned coffee into an art form, don't have refined palates?;) No, I know what you mean. Indeed, I've already said black coffee (espresso, done well) is the connoisseurs choice, and that's a fact!
However, there's a time and place for black coffee, and also one for the milky variety:)
Marco.
looks good
Cheers, mate. It's about the best it's come so far - learning all the time and slowly refining the process!:)
Marco.
Lol - are you saying that Italians, who've turned coffee into an art form, don't have refined palates?
Well I couldn't just roll over and let you basically call me a peasant now could I?
:lol:
Afternoon dose...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/bb738632e8b25c2e57b2d2a2002b9ece.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/95d7a26fa3d0c6b49ac68ddaf6b5d523.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/3d835a6be6722258b495196c87009d63.jpg
Alright, who wants a fight? Lol
Well I couldn't just roll over and let you basically call me a peasant now could I?
:lol:
Lol - well if the cap fits!:D
[Only kidding]
Marco.
Afternoon dose...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/bb738632e8b25c2e57b2d2a2002b9ece.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/95d7a26fa3d0c6b49ac68ddaf6b5d523.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181111/3d835a6be6722258b495196c87009d63.jpg
Alright, who wants a fight? Lol
IMO, the crema in the top-left picture is textbook. Doesn't really get much better:clap::thumbsup:
Marco.
Yup, totally agree. I mistakenly thought your comments were given from your position as a coffee professional, rather than simply reflecting your own personal taste, which is fine:)
I also like cafetière coffee too, but ultimately prefer the greater intensity of flavour you get from a Moka pot, or professional, pressurised machine.
Marco.
To be honest coffee is a bit of a minefield in terms of flavour and consistency. You can take a single variety of coffee bean and roast in many different ways then pick the roast you like which can be standardised but then make up your coffee in numerous different ways. Throw in the variables of temperature, time , water quality and method of making and you can get a coffee that is perceived to have many different flavours.
Obviously the large coffee chains standardise every aspect of their coffee from variety and production through to roasting and finally make up in the coffee shop. The process will be exactly the same in order that you get the same coffee in any given outlet.
I have a large barista machine at work which has 2 steam wands and 3 groupheads. I use it all day but my observation from using it is that the more coffee that goes through it the better it becomes. Fresher water ( don't forget there can be a 20 litre tank in the boiler) and perfect temperature optimise the coffee produced so you end up with excellent flavour and crema. Some of the first coffees we take off in the morning can be a bit rough and thin bodied. Obviously coffee shops generally don't have this problem unless your the first customer! However coffee shops tend to swamp their coffee with milk so you can't taste the coffee anyway!
The Italians, and I am sure your aware of this Marco, don't drink coffee for thirst like we do with our huge lattes and bucket size cups. They only drink coffee for the flavour and hit of caffeine. As one Italian told me in Milano, "we drink water if we are thirsty never coffee!":)
Yeah, lovely, and not too 'brown' either!:eyebrows: (soz, Kev).
Orangey-brown (slightly ochre), thick crema for me is 'the one'.
Marco.
What is your opinion of this?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4867/45779186842_3375da8c4f_z_d.jpg
For me a bit 'peely wally', as we say in Scotland... The colour lacks richness and depth. Compare it with Grant's, mate, and you'll see what I mean:)
Marco.
I am glad you said that.
That was the first pour after changing beans.
The second one looked like this.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4876/44915126455_482626efff_z_d.jpg
There is nothing wrong with this one....
To be honest coffee is a bit of a minefield in terms of flavour and consistency. You can take a single variety of coffee bean and roast in many different ways then pick the roast you like which can be standardised but then make up your coffee in numerous different ways. Throw in the variables of temperature, time , water quality and method of making and you can get a coffee that is perceived to have many different flavours.
Obviously the large coffee chains standardise every aspect of their coffee from variety and production through to roasting and finally make up in the coffee shop. The process will be exactly the same in order that you get the same coffee in any given outlet.
I completely agree, as it mirrors my own experience.
I have a large barista machine at work which has 2 steam wands and 3 groupheads. I use it all day but my observation from using it is that the more coffee that goes through it the better it becomes. Fresher water ( don't forget there can be a 20 litre tank in the boiler) and perfect temperature optimise the coffee produced so you end up with excellent flavour and crema.
Again, based on my experience, that's absolutely correct.
We're lucky to have extremely good quality water here in North Wales (straight from the Berwyn mountains), and I always let the cold tap run for a few seconds before filling the measuring jug with exactly 310ml of water, which represents the maximum amount I can get into the base of the Moka pot, without it coming through into the coffee chamber.
Then exactly that amount is poured into the kettle (the inside of which is always kept clean) and boiled, and the boiling water is then poured into the base of the Moka pot. That always works much better than using cold water, as the longer the coffee is under heat, the more bitter it becomes and the flavour is spoiled. I've also tried using mineral water, to ensure maximum purity, but there's no discernible difference.
After that, the pot goes onto a medium heat (No5, of 9 positions available on my induction hob) and approximately 3 mins later, the coffee starts to bubble through (as shown in my earlier pic), and then I take it off the heat, to allow the brewing process to continue on its own. That makes for a lovely rich, smooth flavour.
The Italians, and I am sure your aware of this Marco, don't drink coffee for thirst like we do with our huge lattes and bucket size cups. They only drink coffee for the flavour and hit of caffeine. As one Italian told me in Milano, "we drink water if we are thirsty never coffee!":)
Haha - I couldn't agree more, but then I've *never* drunk coffee (or tea) for thirst, or indeed high quantities of either on a daily basis, as Brits do. I have one large cappuccino in the morning, such as I showed earlier - and that's it until the following day. I may have an espresso after Sunday lunch, if I feel like it. I'm not a tea-jenny or a caffeine junky!
When I'm thirsty, I drink water (or fruit juice).
Marco.
I am glad you said that.
That was the first pour after changing beans.
The second one looked like this.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4876/44915126455_482626efff_z_d.jpg
There is nothing wrong with this one....
Awesome - that's *absolutely* spot on!! Nice one, dude:thumbsup:
I think the white cup also makes a difference to how it photographs.
Marco.
The other cup was white, but a darker roast produced a darker crema.
I have learnt that a crema is a guide to the quality/freshness of the bean, but not necessarily the taste of the coffee produced!
You need to stop generalising Marco, I'm a Brit even though I wasn't born here, but I don't do the things you say us Brits do.
I'm probably as much of a Brit as you are ;)
Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk
The other cup was white, but a darker roast produced a darker crema.
I have learnt that a crema is a guide to the quality/freshness of the bean, but not necessarily the taste of the coffee produced!
Absolutely!:)
Marco.
You need to stop generalising Marco, I'm a Brit even though I wasn't born here, but I don't do the things you say us Brits do.
I'm probably as much of a Brit as you are ;)
Lol, noted... I'm simply talking from my personal experience. I'm not referring to you. I'll add 'in general', in future, or the 'British general public'/your 'average Joe', which simply has been my experience so far, living here all my life.
Such folks can't seem to get through the day without consuming about 20 cups of tea or coffee, and quite often the shit kind, too!:D
Marco.
Btw, as mentioned many times, I fully agree that 80% of the results achieved is down to the beans chosen in the first place and the grind. This is my current mix (85% Brazilian Arabica, 15% Robusta). I've found that adding a small amount of the latter gives a deeper and more incisive flavour than is achieved with Arabica alone:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/QthIPy.jpg
The grind itself (hand done) is slightly coarser than that normally used for espresso. I love the taste of this mix, but that won't stop me from still experimenting further!:)
The other thing I've learned is to completely ignore the 'old wives tale' about allowing a Moka pot to 'season', with remnants of old coffee, which is said to improve the flavour. Bollocks! It changes the flavour all right, but NOT in a good way, simply adding bitterness.
Therefore, after each use, I clean every part of the Moka pot thoroughly in warm water, especially those in direct contact with the coffee I'm going to drink. Then dry everything thoroughly.
The crucial parts here are the insides of the coffee chamber and the filter and gasket/spouts. Only when those are clean, and not caked with oily deposits of old coffee, does the coffee produced taste best! I also grind only as many beans as I need (measured) to make a large cup of cappuccino, fresh every morning, in order to maximise flavour.
:exactly:
Marco.
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