View Full Version : Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder
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had a problem with hum which turned out to be loose RCA connector on DCB1 pre-amp. Again, already had that fixed once.
So Philips 280 'Black Tulip' pre-amplifier is once again pressed into service. Not quite as awesomely transparent as the DCB1 but there's really not that much in it:
https://i.ibb.co/BVyTc11/philips.jpg (https://ibb.co/rGx5FWW)
facebook marketplace link (https://imgbb.com/)
Been after a new rack for a while, was fed up with having the Krell sat on the floor as just too wide to go in my existing stand.
it takes up some floor space which is not that big a deal, but it's on the route from kitchen to living room and I could visualise myself one day walking in with a beverage, stumbling, and dumping the lot into the top of the amp.
Had a look everywhere on the internet, spent hours on it, no joy. I wanted something that would fit the Krell, place the transport and pre-amp at around chest height, not look awful and not cost a fortune.
Yesterday went out a usual to get a bap for dinner. Next to the sandwich shop, which is in a row of industrial units, is a place called 'Stoke Sales.' No idea what they sell as there's no indication on the outside, no window, and it's always closed.
Anyway yesterday it was open and having a closing down sale so I took a peek inside and it turns out that it's a small furniture showroom. I spied a unit that looked to be perfect for what I wanted and it was on offer at thirty quid. So bought it on the spot and they delivered it about an hour later.
Not going to be to everybody's taste, I know, feel free to say so. But it does do all the things I wanted and at thirty quid delivered it was practically free:
https://i.ibb.co/S6Rwj6b/rackf.jpg (https://ibb.co/Jc5j1cV)
https://i.ibb.co/MPGn02C/racks.jpg (https://ibb.co/2csq4nk)
The two draw units have a smooth action and are ideal for storing my CD overflow.
Very late reply macca - sorry...
I'd be terrified to have the Krell in such a confined space - remember the main reason why I sold you your first one? ;) Can't post an image, but seriously, there wasn't much more room around the amp than you now have and in use, both back and front were open to the elements as you have it. If neither bias lamps come on you're safe as it runs barely warm, but used here, just the middle set of bias lamps (so up to 5W or so?) had the thing cooking a bit too nicely after 3/4 hour with very hot heatsinks and I feared for its life - Flat out and it's a room heater as you may or may not have discovered :D I appreciate your speakers seem rather more efficient and maybe you don't play as loud (I don't think I play loud but my better half may well feel otherwise as we struggle over the TV volume control...), but I'd still urge caution if the heatsinks of these now older mid 90's amps get almost too hot to touch (and hotter). Perhaps the innards stay cool enough but still I'd worry had I kept it.
Very late reply macca - sorry...
I'd be terrified to have the Krell in such a confined space - remember the main reason why I sold you your first one? ;) Can't post an image, but seriously, there wasn't much more room around the amp than you now have and in use, both back and front were open to the elements as you have it. If neither bias lamps come on you're safe as it runs barely warm, but used here, just the middle set of bias lamps (so up to 5W or so?) had the thing cooking a bit too nicely after 3/4 hour with very hot heatsinks and I feared for its life - Flat out and it's a room heater as you may or may not have discovered :D I appreciate your speakers seem rather more efficient and maybe you don't play as loud (I don't think I play loud but my better half may well feel otherwise as we struggle over the TV volume control...), but I'd still urge caution if the heatsinks of these now older mid 90's amps get almost too hot to touch (and hotter). Perhaps the innards stay cool enough but still I'd worry had I kept it.
I think it will be okay Dave, I rarely light the first bias setting and then only for a second or two. Had it on for about four hours earlier, not stupid levels but not quiet either, and when I switched off the heatsinks were only slightly warm. That's about the same as when it was sat in the open.
I'd rather have it like this than risk dropping a cup of tea in the top of it which is a much more likely scenario than it overheating.
Draws are real handy for storing CDs. Typically they are about 4 millimetres too narrow to fit three cds abreast but I can live with that:
https://i.ibb.co/ggZDdQH/draws.jpg (https://ibb.co/bd5rFYq)
webb bridge middle school (https://nonprofitlight.com/ga/alpharetta/pta-webb-bridge-middle-school)
Pigmy Pony
12-03-2022, 17:12
https://youtu.be/-jHzdMo-YCc
Got DCB1 back from pro shop, their EE says there's nothing wrong with it. Not tried putting it back in yet. Here's a picture anyway:
https://i.postimg.cc/d3HChbGB/april.jpg (https://postimg.cc/FkSzqnWd)
No pic showing here Martin?
walpurgis
16-04-2022, 07:14
Picture visible here.
Why was the DCB1 sent off? I must have missed that.
had some hum thought it was that but the EE checked it and it's fine.
Got a bit of money I could spend so have been casually (for the moment) looking around to see what's available in the price range that exists between 'That's a lot of money to spend on loudspeakers' and 'You must be out of your tiny mind.'
Essentially I am looking for a speaker that will go lower in the bass than my current ones, but without losing the fabulous mid and top. I can't be doing with integrating subwoofers and I don't want to go active due to having to run power cables to each speaker which is awkward in my room. So I'm looking casually at the moment just to get an idea.
I might ultimately decide not to change what isn't broken though.
Needless to say there's quite a lot of choice in this price bracket especially if you include the used market, and that is where the real bargains are anyway. So far I've found a couple of contenders.
I'll kick off with this one:
https://i.ibb.co/3zpN41P/utopia.jpg (https://ibb.co/jRyMbhj)
Focal JM Labs Utopia. From 1997. From the same era of JM Lab as my current speakers, which I like a lot. These are just a much bigger version. Price when new? Sixty thousand dollar! That's $110,000 today or ninety thousand of our English pounds.
Yes I needed a sit down too.
Used price today? £4750. More depreciation than a Fiat Croma Turbo!
Pros -
I know I will like their sound.
Anechoic FR is -3db at 20 Hz so tick that box
Look good.
Price is keen
Cons -
They are massive. I mean that's a fifteen inch woofer.
They weigh almost 400 pounds each. That's 180 kilos in foreign.
Focal recommend they are placed at least ten feet apart. Due to a chimney breast the width of my room where they will be placed is only ten foot.
overkill me thinks:)
That exact word had crossed my mind too. It's a stupidly large amount of loudspeaker for the cash though you have to admit.
That exact word had crossed my mind too. It's a stupidly large amount of loudspeaker for the cash though you have to admit.
indeed and possibly an imovable object. hard to move and probably impossible to resell.
Speakers that do bass down to 30Hz and also have good sound quality tend to be big and very heavy. I don't think there's a way round that.
walpurgis
21-08-2022, 13:32
overkill me thinks:)
Dunno, but trying to shift them around could be fatal! :eek:
cube-tube
21-08-2022, 13:45
A used pair of NHT 2.9's or 3.3's. The 2.9's with their side-firing 10" sealed woofers reaches down to 20 Hz in-room. I know, I have a pair. The 3.3's with their 12" woofers obviously go a little deeper. Both can be purchased for a lot less, and definitely weigh a lot less. The 3.3's will give those Focal JM Labs Utopia's a hard run for their money.
A used pair of NHT 2.9's or 3.3's. The 2.9's with their side-firing 10" sealed woofers reaches down to 20 Hz in-room. I know, I have a pair. The 3.3's with their 12" woofers obviously go a little deeper. Both can be purchased for a lot less, and definitely weigh a lot less. The 3.3's will give those Focal JM Labs Utopia's a hard run for their money.
An interesting suggestion. Heard NHT some many years ago (not either of those models you mention) and was impressed. Doesn't seem to be any 2.9 or 3.3 about right now though.
What about the Wharfedale Elysian 4?
Rave reviews and apparently good value at £7K retail, I’m sure a chunky discount could be had.
What happened to the Tannoy driver based speakers you were having built Martin?
What about the Wharfedale Elysian 4?
Rave reviews and apparently good value at £7K retail, I’m sure a chunky discount could be had.
I'll take a look.
What happened to the Tannoy driver based speakers you were having built Martin?
Can't get hold of the bloke, so I think that's knackered.
Can't get hold of the bloke, so I think that's knackered.
Thought you'd bought the drivers?
Chunk of dough to write off if you did :(
Thought you'd bought the drivers?
Chunk of dough to write off if you did :(
I know. Sometimes things just don't work out.
Presumably you have the drive units that you can sell on without loss?
I know. Sometimes things just don't work out.
Hey Martin,
My tuppence worth, hopefully helpful.
Hifi Guy on YouTube, Andrew Robinson
is an ex high end AV guy now Audiophile... but keeps his sensible Head on...
Im a fan, he's a trusted opinion in my book.
https://www.youtube.com/c/AndrewRobinsonphoto/videos
Saw your post here, and remembered a recent video of his.
He recently posted about his "possibly endgame" speaker - The Q Acoustics Concept 50.
His content is really interesting, but He covers all the budget ranges (and good man for that) though I didn't pay much mind up till the point he said in his review of the Concept 50's the Q Acoustics do mid and top end BETTER than the Wharfedale Elysian 4's he recently reviewed.
AMT tweeter, dedicated mid cone and all.
Love my Evo 4.4's, Elysians are better, (and 5 times the price) but not suited to my room - so that comment got my attention!
As a Krell guy,
know you like a bit of grunt, and a comment about the concept 50's were a slight lack in the low end region?
Considering your budget though:
What about the Big Daddy of the Q Acoustic Concept range - the Concept 500's?
https://www.kbaudio.co.uk/products/q-acoustic-concept-500-floorstanding-speakers?variant=39594459234350
(https://www.kbaudio.co.uk/products/q-acoustic-concept-500-floorstanding-speakers?variant=39594459234350)
A hair over 4.5K.
These look Feckin' awesome :eek:
Great Video on 'em here:
https://youtu.be/7JsEVd8RtO8
Seem room friendly too?
It's just a thought...
Hey Martin,
My tuppence worth, hopefully helpful.
Hifi Guy on YouTube, Andrew Robinson
is an ex high end AV guy now Audiophile... but keeps his sensible Head on...
Im a fan, he's a trusted opinion in my book.
https://www.youtube.com/c/AndrewRobinsonphoto/videos
Saw your post here, and remembered a recent video of his.
He recently posted about his "possibly endgame" speaker - The Q Acoustics Concept 50.
His content is really interesting, but He covers all the budget ranges (and good man for that) though I didn't pay much mind up till the point he said in his review of the Concept 50's the Q Acoustics do mid and top end BETTER than the Wharfedale Elysian 4's he recently reviewed.
AMT tweeter, dedicated mid cone and all.
Love my Evo 4.4's, Elysians are better, (and 5 times the price) but not suited to my room - so that comment got my attention!
As a Krell guy,
know you like a bit of grunt, and a comment about the concept 50's were a slight lack in the low end region?
Considering your budget though:
What about the Big Daddy of the Q Acoustic Concept range - the Concept 500's?
https://www.kbaudio.co.uk/products/q-acoustic-concept-500-floorstanding-speakers?variant=39594459234350
(https://www.kbaudio.co.uk/products/q-acoustic-concept-500-floorstanding-speakers?variant=39594459234350)
A hair over 4.5K.
These look Feckin' awesome :eek:
Great Video on 'em here:
https://youtu.be/7JsEVd8RtO8
Seem room friendly too?
It's just a thought...
Hi Gaz
I've had a bit of a listen to those Q Acoustic although it was in a bad room, acoustically speaking. They are good but I did not think they were as good as what I already have.
I agree about Andrew Robinson, one of the few who is worth watching.
Pigmy Pony
24-08-2022, 08:56
Hi Mart, what about something like this? Probably somewhere between what you have (and like), and those mental speakers at the top of your thread.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/AaMAAOSwnXVifnbP/s-l400.jpg
Focal Sopra No.3. These are on Ebay now.
Although if you got the Utopias and it didn't work out, you could scoop out the innards and rent the cabinets to a couple of asylum seekers :) Recoup some of your losses.
Hi Mart, what about something like this? Probably somewhere between what you have (and like), and those mental speakers at the top of your thread.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/AaMAAOSwnXVifnbP/s-l400.jpg
Focal Sopra No.3. These are on Ebay now.
Although if you got the Utopias and it didn't work out, you could scoop out the innards and rent the cabinets to a couple of asylum seekers :) Recoup some of your losses.
sold already from the looks of it.
Thinking seriously about getting some of these https://www.stereophile.com/content/show-epiphany-tad-compact-evolution-1 - s/h ofc
Pigmy Pony
24-08-2022, 17:53
sold already from the looks of it.
Thinking seriously about getting some of these https://www.stereophile.com/content/show-epiphany-tad-compact-evolution-1 - s/h ofc
Are you thinking about the ones Tony at Coherent has? His look much nicer than the ones in the link here. I bet you could get a home demo no problem :)
pricy
Some going for just under twelve grand. Yes it's way too much money to be spending on speakers. But I'm not going to get something better than what I have now at a sane price. Plus they have the advantage of being small and light enough (30 kilos) that I could move them if I needed to.
where are your tannoys? should be made by now ffs...
For the money I think your talking about,I’d be all in for ATC 100s or 150s,at the very least worthy of a demo.
For the money I think your talking about,I’d be all in for ATC 100s or 150s,at the very least worthy of a demo.
I'm familiar with the 100 but only the active version. Yes they are good. Big and heavy though.
Choose your given Poison Sir...
walpurgis
26-08-2022, 06:35
I'm familiar with the 100 but only the active version. Yes they are good. Big and heavy though.
Yes, a friend had the active 100. They were very fine speakers, but I could always hear the big pulp cone slightly adding its character to the sound.
New pre-amp now in the system:
https://i.ibb.co/0B862gx/BT2.jpg (https://ibb.co/LQbcRL3)
what is it macca??
Avalon BT2 from Bigbottle Audio.
ah, one of the bb builds.. should sound good.
I looked at a load of options including boutique stuff up to the three grand area (second hand).
Eventually it came down to a toss up between this and the Topping pre-amp at about half the price. In the end decided I'd go for this.
I like to have a proper rotary volume control rather than push-button remote; the casework, sockets, wiring, potentiometer and everything else in it are all the best possible and, ultimately, I'd rather give my business to a mate.
I looked at a load of options including boutique stuff up to the three grand area (second hand).
Eventually it came down to a toss up between this and the Topping pre-amp at about half the price. In the end decided I'd go for this.
I like to have a proper rotary volume control rather than push-button remote; the casework, sockets, wiring, potentiometer and everything else in it are all the best possible and, ultimately, I'd rather give my business to a mate.
there can be a lot of money in valve pre's. Oli has been making them for a while so any bugs should be well out of them.
there can be a lot of money in valve pre's. Oli has been making them for a while so any bugs should be well out of them.
Not valve. Solid state buffer, zero gain.
Lawrence001
12-11-2022, 14:24
Not valve. Solid state buffer, zero gain.Is it a variation on the DCB1 I know Olly and Alan spent a long time researching and building those?
Lawrence001
12-11-2022, 14:28
A used pair of NHT 2.9's or 3.3's. The 2.9's with their side-firing 10" sealed woofers reaches down to 20 Hz in-room. I know, I have a pair. The 3.3's with their 12" woofers obviously go a little deeper. Both can be purchased for a lot less, and definitely weigh a lot less. The 3.3's will give those Focal JM Labs Utopia's a hard run for their money.I had the 2.5is in a 5 channel system for years, some narrow NHT towers at the rear and an NHT centre (or "center") speaker in the middle.
Looking back it was one of the best sounding systems I've had, the 2.5is were stunning playing very quiet in nearfield late at night, it was like the performers were live but scaled down between the speakers.
Is it a variation on the DCB1 I know Olly and Alan spent a long time researching and building those?
I don't know, It's the same principle as DCB1 I suppose.
Not valve. Solid state buffer, zero gain.
so, whats your initial take?
so, whats your initial take?
well, it's better than the Philips Black Tulip pre, and that's not a bad pre-amp but it's a bit veiled by comparison to this new one.
Had too many distractions today so only had a couple of uninterrupted hours to listen earlier on and then got distracted watching 'The Alamo' when I was having my dinner. I forgot how long that film is.
Should be able to give it a proper go tomorrow afternoon.
well, it's better than the Philips Black Tulip pre, and that's not a bad pre-amp but it's a bit veiled by comparison to this new one.
Had too many distractions today so only had a couple of uninterrupted hours to listen earlier on and then got distracted watching 'The Alamo' when I was having my dinner. I forgot how long that film is.
Should be able to give it a proper go tomorrow afternoon.
lol, yes its getting on for 3 hrs.. well if its an improvement on a good pre like the philips, then its a step in right direction..
phonomac
13-11-2022, 09:47
Is it a variation on the DCB1 I know Olly and Alan spent a long time researching and building those?
It is not based on the DCB1 in any way. It is a new design produced by myself using modern high-performance components.
Deleted
Why was this post deleted?:scratch:
Why was this post deleted?:scratch:
he deleted it himself.
Okay second listening test, serious this time :)
Took out the old pre-amp, put my patented washing machine feet in to separate it a useful distance from the transport below, redressed all the cables round the back.
https://i.ibb.co/yST09vv/pre-2.jpg (https://ibb.co/nC2rGdd)
I don't tend to listen for the usual audiophile things like soundstage and imaging since I find it impossible to recall what they were like with other equipment unless instant switching is available. Instead I listen for problems like colouration and distortion, and for what might be missing.
I also like to note whether or not I have to concentrate to perceive subtle elements of the recording. A good system should just present them.
In terms of comparison my recent preamps have been the Philips AH280 'Black Tulip' and Nelson Pass DCB1. Not used the Pass pre in a while so bear in mind my memory may not be so good on that one. The Philips is a bit warm but with sparkle. It's a bit generic in its sound, especially in the bass. It's a relaxing and enjoyable listen but it's not neutral by any stretch.
The Pass DCB1 is almost the opposite, quite scarily open and revealing of the differences between recordings, and of different instrumental tone.
So I kicked off with 'Gaucho', an easy one to get right - and so it was, this recording did not really tell me anything, it's an impeccable recording it was impeccably reproduced. Only thing I noticed was that the keyboards tones seemed to be very real and natural, more so than usual.
Moved on to demo favourite 'Brothers In Arms', again an impeccable recording (this was the 1990s re-master). But I wanted to listen to one thing in particular. In the outro to the tune 'Why Worry?' the rhythm meanders for a while and then picks up again with the drummer working a snare in the back right of the soundstage. With the DCB1 the snare could be heard in its own acoustic, sounding very real, and moreover this was totally obvious, not something you had to listen out for or concentrate on to hear, it was just there. I distinctly recall this from the first time I listened to this recording through the DCB1 because it had my jaw on the floor.
You don't get it with the Philips - sure you hear the snare and it's in the same spot in the soundstage, but it's acoustic is not there, at least not so blatantly. You can listen for it and maybe then it becomes apparent but this is the difference between the best and the also rans. With the best you don't need to listen out.
So with the BT2 the snare was there, the acoustic was apparent, the only difference was that the snare sound seemed slightly softer. Or maybe slightly blurred. It was not quite as sharp as with the DCB1.
Next couple of albums I listened to sort of confirmed that impression I had when first plugging the BT2 in yesterday. Simply Red 'Stars', which is a workmanlike studio recording, all the best equipment used, not too many gizmos or effects just a fairly stripped-down band, well-recorded. With DCB1 this was like listening in the studio, serious impact, quite raw, the recording totally dissected. With the Philips, just a pleasant, musical sound. With the BT2 it was like the DCB1 with its 'full-on' nature just dialled back a fraction.
Last up Rolling Stones 'Emotional Rescue'. More of the same. Sound is somewhere between raw studio control room and relaxing home listening. With vocals added reverb and doubling was obvious, as was their own acoustic space. Instrumental timbre was beautifully resolved, I noticed this with electronic keyboards especially.
These are all attributes I valued the DCB1 for, they have not been lost with the BT2. What is' not there is that super-rawness of the DCB1. I sort of liked and hated that rawness at the same time. It was mesmerising to hear a recording so completely revealed, but it did make listening a little exhausting, especially with rock music.
I was hoping from my memory of hearing the BT2 previously that it would not be quite so explicit, whilst still keeping the qualities I value reasonably intact. So far this does seem to be the case.
walpurgis
13-11-2022, 20:31
I reckon you've got a keeper there Martin :).
good write up.. i prefer it not to be too revealing as well; as you say it can become tiring quite fast
Pigmy Pony
14-11-2022, 19:50
Sounds like you've hit a happy medium there, revealing without being tiring. Nice looking unit too, though I bet you wished it had a higher knob count :)
Sounds like you've hit a happy medium there, revealing without being tiring. Nice looking unit too, though I bet you wished it had a higher knob count :)
It does look okay I think. You can't really judge the build quality and the case from a picture but they are pretty high end. This was the alternative:
https://i.ibb.co/hFZP8qg/topping-pre90-inpage1.jpg (https://ibb.co/jkWc4p8)
Pigmy Pony
14-11-2022, 20:29
It does look okay I think. You can't really judge the build quality and the case from a picture but they are pretty high end. This was the alternative:
https://i.ibb.co/hFZP8qg/topping-pre90-inpage1.jpg (https://ibb.co/jkWc4p8)
Hmm, that's ok I suppose, you get a display to tell you what's happening, but then you've got ears for that. Prefer the look of what you have.
I only have one source so the selector never gets used and as you say you set volume by ear. I think the screen on the Topping looks pretty good but it's also another thing that can go wrong and I don't need it. Plus it's all a bit plasticky. Wanted something that for the long term would be a pleasure to use and look at as well as listen to.
Next step will replace the CD transport with something a bit more flash looking and that isn't slot loading because that irritates me a bit.
MY system December '22 - Audiolab CDT6000 > Topping E30 > Avalon BT2 > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.
Might buy a flashy CD transport after Xmas. Otherwise this is done until something dies or I find something better.
https://i.ibb.co/4jnjJ26/system-dec-22.jpg (https://ibb.co/fCzCQ9h)
Pigmy Pony
03-12-2022, 15:20
MY system December '22 - Audiolab CDT6000 > Topping E30 > Avalon BT2 > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.
Might buy a flashy CD transport after Xmas. Otherwise this is done until something dies or I find something better.
https://i.ibb.co/4jnjJ26/system-dec-22.jpg (https://ibb.co/fCzCQ9h)
Isn't this what everyone says? What transport are you considering? I know you aren't a fan of your slot loader.
Quite fancy one of these:
https://i.ibb.co/zfYPRq3/teac20.jpg (https://ibb.co/HgsGz5c)
or
https://i.ibb.co/6wJ5mRN/teac-vrds-10se-cd-player.jpg (https://ibb.co/T2q5kBr)
Pigmy Pony
03-12-2022, 15:59
Looks chunky and purposeful. I didn't know Teac were still going. I used to use a Teac DVD player for CDs, it actually worked very well :)
Looks chunky and purposeful. I didn't know Teac were still going. I used to use a Teac DVD player for CDs, it actually worked very well :)
I think they are still going but those two players are from about 20 years ago. There's nothing much new about that I like the look of. Except Accuphase and I'm not paying those prices.
yeah teac are still going. made some decent stuff; did tascam too
yeah teac are still going. made some decent stuff; did tascam too
I think Teac were the domestic spin-off from Tascam?
Anyway I think they look the business. There's a VRDS20 on eBay now for a grand https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304692369201? But really my limit will be half that.
Those VRDS machines look bomb, and bullet-proof, and they don't sound too bad either. :)
Wakefield Turntables
04-12-2022, 17:59
I've had a VRDS 25X for well over 10 years and it's never let me down. Can't really go wrong.
Had VRDS10 back in the day. Very nice machine and build quality strong despite of some cd tray belt issues. However these are still fully serviceable today I think..
There's one going for £500 but I've been resisting temptation.
Pigmy Pony
18-01-2023, 21:32
Go on, you know it makes sense :) He who dares, wins
Today's job - sorting out my CD collection.
Oh dear. It's expanded considerably since I last did this.
https://i.ibb.co/jgTTczK/cd-2023.jpg (https://ibb.co/PwNN7Mp)
About 35 in each tower and 12 towers so approx 420 albums. Think I might split genres rather than just do a straight A to Z as previously.
Jazz, Rap/Hip-Hop and then everything else?
I have my CD collection divided into genre, as I do with my LP collection. I do it because I have very broad tastes in music. So the divisions are:
Classical
Blues (including early R&B)
Jazz
Folk
'World', and anything culturally ethnic
Pop and Rock (all categories).
I find it convenient, because if l'm playing something with guests and they like what they hear, then I can follow it with something similar. Conversely, if they would prefer to hear something different, I can find that too.
Pigmy Pony
14-10-2023, 12:27
Bummed... not heard that in many years.
Oh no, trying to sort into genres would properly do my head in. If your towers are those 'chrome wirey' kind of things I can see that being a PITA.
This what you need: 480 CDs storage, 70 quid. Nail it to the wall, job done.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/80UAAOSwcGRlDUb5/s-l1600.jpg
I'm about a third the way through I think. Stopping for a cup of tea.
Cleaning each case with baby wipes before it goes back so that's slowing things down. Amazing how much crud there is on some of them.
Storage is two towers (not the wiry kind) some bookcase shelves and two drawers.
Sinatra is in the jazz pile and Happy Mondays and Amy Winehouse in the rap/hip hop pile. Probably debateable.
No point having a folk section, I could only put Tull and Joni Mitchell in it.
Bummed... not heard that in many years.
Oh no, trying to sort into genres would properly do my head in. If your towers are those 'chrome wirey' kind of things I can see that being a PITA.
This what you need: 480 CDs storage, 70 quid. Nail it to the wall, job done.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/80UAAOSwcGRlDUb5/s-l1600.jpg
Who makes that? I would be interested - it's very good value for money: most charge a fortune for such storage.
Agree regarding any storage system where the CDs are put into individual slots. A real PITA!
Pigmy Pony
14-10-2023, 13:35
Who makes that? I would be interested - it's very good value for money: most charge a fortune for such storage.
Agree regarding any storage system where the CDs are put into individual slots. A real PITA!
I just searched 'CD shelves' on Ebay, and there it was. I might have to consider one myself - my home-built wall shelving holds about 700, and is just about full, even though Anita's 80-odd collection of 'Now' CDs have been consigned to a cupboard. So now it'll be a case of one in, one out.
Hopefully this link will work:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231943125684?epid=13003305134&hash=item3600e33ab4:g:oToAAOSwEnplDUb5&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwAMswGqV%2BL6C%2Fqrb%2F03Owd5 m5mKhVgeITO5kJJ0VeKh3fbUNpQ%2FTsbZnGj1995PCqrlXaZF ozM0076YlNkh30LQ8cU334kJyiRJ3xNX9veZX1cHR0luWOYceH IkaKPCTeYw1asGUYv0201gHvSpAh2M%2BxbL0ZMkwLD73Gmx7o WGooyAUihqizpw7lp%2FYi2YTAvOaQC4ERwNhZuaZNCRmv6%2B gDUDIOIFDAogykjiFov3uJ6fwKGyHAg6VtEcjFbcgLg%3D%3D% 7Ctkp%3ABlBMUNyTn-LlYg
Captain Beefheart - under 'B' or 'C' ?
There's a surprising number of tricky decisions to be made in this process.
Does anyone know if that was his real military rank?
Pigmy Pony
14-10-2023, 14:12
Captain Beefheart - under 'B' or 'C' ?
There's a surprising number of tricky decisions to be made in this process.
I have him filed under 'C'. Though neither options would be far from each other.
Does anyone know if that was his real military rank?
i doubt he would have made private
I would file them under ones I would play which will be about 20-30 CDs.
The rest I would pop in a big box.:lol:
Captain Beefheart - under 'B' or 'C' ?
There's a surprising number of tricky decisions to be made in this process.
Either will do; I think I have mine filed under 'B', as I think of him as "Beefheart".
(Though strictly speaking he should be filed under 'V'. ;) )
All done.
I don't have enough room for 'Y' and 'Z'.
Although 'Y' is mostly Neil Young and 'Z' is mostly ZZ Top and Zappa, all of which I play a lot, so I'll just keep them in a separate pile until the charity shop gets another CD tower in.
As always there's way more 'S' than any other letter.
I would file them under ones I would play which will be about 20-30 CDs.
The rest I would pop in a big box.:lol:
There' probably only 20-30 I never play. Very little dross, I was always too skint to buy albums just on a punt.
There' probably only 20-30 I never play. Very little dross, I was always too skint to buy albums just on a punt.
Ah then you have a long task ahead!:eek:
dantheman91
14-10-2023, 16:53
Only 420 count yourself you don't have over 2000 odd like myself :mental:
Only 420 count yourself you don't have over 2000 odd like myself :mental:
Yeah, it's not a large collection compared to what a few people I know have.
But I think last time I sorted them it was just over 200 so it has expanded quite rapidly.
never counted the cd's tbh, but jriver counts the tracks as just short of 20k, so certainly over 1k... mind you some will be vinyl rips plus ive bought a few files
Pigmy Pony
14-10-2023, 19:23
Either will do; I think I have mine filed under 'B', as I think of him as "Beefheart".
(Though strictly speaking he should be filed under 'V'. ;) )
Yes, sandwiched between Van Der Graaf Generator and Velvet Underground :)
Or in my case: between Vangelis and Velvet Underground
Van der Graff Generator we're, IMO, a very second rate band from Manchester. :sofa:
At school we had a demonstration of a Van Der Graff Generator, None of us knew it was a real thing until then, we thought it was just a name the band made up.
Don't think I have listened to them since I was in Sixth Form, I remember it as being pretty impenetrable stuff.
There was a 6MV Van der Graff Generator on the University of Manchester campus. That is where the group took its name.
I might even have seen them as a supporting act in the student's union.
Pigmy Pony
14-10-2023, 22:21
I did buy a recent-ish live album of theirs a couple of years ago, it wasn't what I'd hoped it would be. But I did then have something to put between 'Safe as Milk' and 'Andy Warhol'. And with Weather Report, XTC, Neil Young, Zappa, and ZZ Top as neighbours, not an entirely bad end to the alphabet.
No room for "The Zutons"? And then there is Warren Zevon, and possibly Joe Zawinul.
No room for "The Zutons"? And then there is Warren Zevon, and possibly Joe Zawinul.
Always make room for more Zevon.
Seriously.
Pigmy Pony
15-10-2023, 17:16
No room for "The Zutons"? And then there is Warren Zevon, and possibly Joe Zawinul.
I have a couple of Zutons albums, but they're on CD, so strictly speaking not neighbours. Same with Vangelis. No Zevon or Zawinul on these shelves, never going to match your tastes for eclecticism (is that a word?)
It is now!
https://chinwagstuff.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/fluff-daily-mail.jpg
I have a couple of Zutons albums, but they're on CD, so strictly speaking not neighbours. Same with Vangelis. No Zevon or Zawinul on these shelves, never going to match your tastes for eclecticism (is that a word?)
There are many music group and performers enjoyed by Members here, that I would file under 'ZZZZ' (along with the test records)! :sofa:
There are many I've never heard of let alone heard.
There's a lot of music out there.
Pigmy Pony
16-10-2023, 18:54
More than enough to see us out, even if there was no more 'new' music made.
More than enough to see us out, even if there was no more 'new' music made.
There pretty much isn't AFAIC.
As a very generous concession I sometimes let the kiddies at work listen to Capitol. Diabolically bad or instantly forgettable, that's all it is.
Diabolically bad or instantly forgettable, that's all it is.
Rather like much of the '80s and '90s. I call it 'ephemeral rock'. I bought some of it: The Damned; INXS; Bow Wow Wow, etc., but very quickly tired of it and gave the LPs away.
Pigmy Pony
17-10-2023, 19:16
I find a lot to like about the 80s. Albums from Tears For fears, Peter Gabriel, The The, Joe Jackson, Talk talk, Dire Straits, The Fixx, XTC, there will be several others. Then the late 80s/ early 90s kicked off with Happy Mondays, Stone Roses, and EDM outfits like The Prodigy, The Orb, Underworld, Faithless, Orbital, Massive Attack.
For me it all went downhill by the late 90s, and not much from there onwards interests me. But although I'm pretty much sorted as far as the above bands are concerned, there's plenty from the 70s which passed me by. And that should keep me busy for years to come :)
Early and late 1980s were good, it was the middle where it all got a bit dodgy.
INXS only had one tune. I wouldn't hold them up as an example of the 1980s.
Got one of these on the way
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E1000ESD.html
Goodness - looks like it could take you all of 2024 to learn how to use it.
Sony certainly made some quality looking gear; definitely not minimalist in appearance. :)
That’s an absolute Beast of a thing, looks cool.
ES stuff is proper kit.
Should be a bit of fun, might end up using it on the TV system if it can't match the Black Tulip pre.
walpurgis
30-12-2023, 15:28
Got one of these on the way
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E1000ESD.html
Oooh! I'd like a play with that Martin :).
Aye,
looks a very cool bit of kit mate, have fun when it comes.
if nowt else it looks like the dogs bollocks martin.. love those wood cheeks
Yep a true piece of HIFI in the best sense.
Oooh! I'd like a play with that Martin :).
you can adjust reverb time, density and spread - I mean how good is that?
if nowt else it looks like the dogs bollocks martin.. love those wood cheeks
Couldn't find one with the cheeks, sadly.
Got it this evening.
So good to get an item from someone who knows how to pack - encased in thick bubble wrap and double box.
As I'd hoped from the photos it's near mint condition. Hopefully will be electrically okay too.
I'll see if it powers up tomorrow - give it a bit of time for any moisture to go first - then hook it up to a test system on Saturday.
How’s She sounding Martin?
Had a chance to hook the beast up yet?
Affinity for “back in the day” ES kit here.
wondering if it’s what you thought it might be?
Have an ES Sony cassette deck and FM tuner unused here, love the rack presence and “knob feel”
(well, bought them for the Folks, sadly no longer enjoyed, but man they looked awesome)
(don’t judge me :))
Ah ha..
you said Saturday.
How’s She sounding Martin?
Had a chance to hook the beast up yet?
Affinity for “back in the day” ES kit here.
wondering if it’s what you thought it might be?
Have an ES Sony cassette deck and FM tuner unused here, love the rack presence and “knob feel”
(well, bought them for the Folks, sadly no longer enjoyed, but man they looked awesome)
(don’t judge me :))
It powers up fine. I will test it with some sacrifical speakers tomorrow before it goes in the proper system.
Really cool it lights up like a nightclub.
Got a couple of ES pieces, an integrated amp and an X505ES CD player http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDP-X505ES.html
. I also used to have the matching power amp to this pre-amp, the TA-N55ES, http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N55ES.html
but it could not drive my speakers and I traded it a few years ago now.
I do have a bit of a thing for Sony ES myself so no judging
Happy to hear :)
I remember Nightclubs, (adopts Morgan Freeman voice)
those Clubs back in the 80’s where you cared too much about how yer hair flick went?
(possibly just my experience tbf)
It powers up fine. I will test it with some sacrifical speakers tomorrow before it goes in the proper system.
Really cool it lights up like a nightclub.
Got a couple of ES pieces, an integrated amp and an X505ES CD player http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDP-X505ES.html
. I also used to have the matching power amp to this pre-amp, the TA-N55ES, http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N55ES.html
but it could not drive my speakers and I traded it a few years ago now.
I do have a bit of a thing for Sony ES myself so no judging
Happy to hear :)
I remember Nightclubs, (adopts Morgan Freeman voice)
those Clubs back in the 80’s where you cared too much about how yer hair flick went?
(possibly just my experience tbf)
closest we got to a nightclub was doon the welfare of a saturday nicht:D
Some of those gals were “well fair” I remember…
Some of those gals were “well fair” I remember…
aye after 6 pints they came close to 'fair':doh:...afer 7 or 8, even the 65 year olds became penelope cruz:D
And they say Beer Goggles are a bad thing…
In the right circumstances, “Grab a Granny” never disappoints
rmcin626
05-01-2024, 21:42
aye after 6 pints they came close to 'fair':doh:...afer 7 or 8, even the 65 year olds became penelope cruz:D
We used to have saying back in the day, “ if **** is looking good its time to home “
Pigmy Pony
05-01-2024, 23:25
I remember Nightclubs, (adopts Morgan Freeman voice)
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article488288.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200c/2DAAB65A-ADBC-7206-487CB6E2B30FCC06.jpg
Not half! Ooh sorry, you said Morgan Freeman :doh:
Up and running - sounds good even through the sacrificial speakers!
https://i.ibb.co/hfmgmCW/20240106-105218.jpg (https://ibb.co/Wt2H2sy)
Check out the green LED built into the volume control - this is why Sony ES is better.
https://i.ibb.co/mbDywn9/20240106-104431.jpg (https://ibb.co/RYv6mX3)
Pairs up nicely with the TEAC - matching LED colours. Sony built some great gear back then for the consumer market.
The remote has 90 buttons on it :)
Volume pot is motorised so it moves when you change volume with the remote. Nice.
47 page manual - and yes that's just the English bit. You can connect 5 VCRs simultaneously!
Now have it hooked up to proper speakers so will do a bit of SQ assesment. Bear in mind the DAC in this unit is 35 years old - will it matter?
The remote has 90 buttons on it :)
Volume pot is motorised so it moves when you change volume with the remote. Nice.
47 page manual - and yes that's just the English bit. You can connect 5 VCRs simultaneously!
Now have it hooked up to proper speakers so will do a bit of SQ assesment. Bear in mind the DAC in this unit is 35 years old - will it matter?
I am sure the DAC will be just fine.:)
Pigmy Pony
06-01-2024, 13:46
The remote has 90 buttons on it :)
Volume pot is motorised so it moves when you change volume with the remote. Nice.
47 page manual - and yes that's just the English bit. You can connect 5 VCRs simultaneously!
Now have it hooked up to proper speakers so will do a bit of SQ assesment. Bear in mind the DAC in this unit is 35 years old - will it matter?
Well you're not short of standalone DACs, so no, it probably won't.
Looks pretty cool and a good visual match for the TEAC, be nice if it sounds better than the Philips, or at least as good.
Well you're not short of standalone DACs, so no, it probably won't.
Looks pretty cool and a good visual match for the TEAC, be nice if it sounds better than the Philips, or at least as good.
It converts all analogue inputs to digital - there's no pass-through. So there's no point using an external DAC with it, you'd just be adding an extra D-A/A-D stage.
Visually it's a great match for the TEAC - exact same shade of black, very similar feet, and same colour orange LEDs.
That is the important stuff, not some tiny nuance of difference in the SQ :)
Played a few albums through it so far and it's not let itself down yet.
Pigmy Pony
06-01-2024, 15:11
It converts all analogue inputs to digital - there's no pass-through. So there's no point using an external DAC with it, you'd just be adding an extra D-A/A-D stage.
Visually it's a great match for the TEAC - exact same shade of black, very similar feet, and same colour orange LEDs.
That is the important stuff, not some tiny nuance of difference in the SQ :)
Played a few albums through it so far and it's not let itself down yet.
But what analogue signals would you put into it? I thought you was CD only, coming from a transport, not a player. I was thinking it would be a toss up between the Sony's DAC and say, your Topping into an analogue input.
Edit: Just twigged with your "converts all analogue inputs to digital" comments. I get it, I think. My brain hurts now.
But what analogue signals would you put into it? I thought you was CD only, coming from a transport, not a player. I was thinking it would be a toss up between the Sony's DAC and say, your Topping into an analogue input.
Edit: Just twigged with your "converts all analogue inputs to digital" comments. I get it, I think. My brain hurts now.
if you put the topping into one of the analogue inputs the Sony converts it back to digital then decodes it again with its own DAC.
All its analogue inputs are converted to digital internally, even the phono stage. This is so you can use all the DSP functions it has.
Edit - just see you edit!
Pigmy Pony
06-01-2024, 16:33
So you could digitise your vinyl collection and burn them onto CDs? And maybe manipulate the eq? That might be fun if it were possible, or am I failing to get what this Sony is able to do?
So you could digitise your vinyl collection and burn them onto CDs? And maybe manipulate the eq? That might be fun if it were possible, or am I failing to get what this Sony is able to do?
you could use it to do that as it has an ADC but I don't think the EQ carries over to the recording.
Pigmy Pony
06-01-2024, 16:57
I feel a bit like this bloke
https://youtu.be/9VgwxKW0J6I?t=69
Any more thoughts on the SONY ES new gear?
Any more thoughts on the SONY ES new gear?
I been waiting before saying anything as I wanted to listen to a lot of different music before giving my thoughts.
But what the hell.
It is different to the Philips pre/Topping DAC combo I will say that. A little cleaner, a little leaner.
Keith Richards 'Main Offender' which just sounded sublime with Philips/Topping loses the magic 'sweetness' in favour of a more forensic 'control room' sound. Not really sure whether I want that or not...probably not.
Main reason I got this other than it's just a classic piece of kit was the parametric EQ. I'm intending to use REW to measure the FR of my system but realised that if I did find it to be less than ideal (highly likely even though it does sound really good with all types of music) the only way I would be able to make any adjustments was the tone controls on the Philips. Which do have selectable bandwidth, but are still crude compared to digital PEQ.
So next stage will be to do the measuring then tinker with the PEQ and see if I can end up with something better than what I had.
Although not sure when I'm going to get round to downloading REW and learning to use it. Not even taken the mic out of the box yet!
Anyway if none of that works out think I might go back to Philips/Topping combo and relegate the Sony to the TV system.
I been waiting before saying anything as I wanted to listen to a lot of different music before giving my thoughts.
But what the hell.
It is different to the Philips pre/Topping DAC combo I will say that. A little cleaner, a little leaner.
Keith Richards 'Main Offender' which just sounded sublime with Philips/Topping loses the magic 'sweetness' in favour of a more forensic 'control room' sound. Not really sure whether I want that or not...probably not.
Main reason I got this other than it's just a classic piece of kit was the parametric EQ. I'm intending to use REW to measure the FR of my system but realised that if I did find it to be less than ideal (highly likely even though it does sound really good with all types of music) the only way I would be able to make any adjustments was the tone controls on the Philips. Which do have selectable bandwidth, but are still crude compared to digital PEQ.
So next stage will be to do the measuring then tinker with the PEQ and see if I can end up with something better than what I had.
Although not sure when I'm going to get round to downloading REW and learning to use it. Not even taken the mic out of the box yet!
Anyway if none of that works out think I might go back to Philips/Topping combo and relegate the Sony to the TV system.
I think I have a video of someone using REW and they explain very well how to use it. If I can find it I will post it up.
How to use REW and speaker set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhUaX0PIFc&list=PL0M9xqvUDwdxzD0xtw2wPr_FWa7JIfx_V&index=6
How to use REW and speaker set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObhUaX0PIFc&list=PL0M9xqvUDwdxzD0xtw2wPr_FWa7JIfx_V&index=6
Thanks - I did already read some tutorials but you know what it's like - what seems straightforward on paper isn't so easy when you actually come to do it :)
contemplated using that but decided it was too compllex for my meagre brain and went for the well regarded 'f**k it' approach ;)
AJSki2fly
09-01-2024, 13:27
Thanks - I did already read some tutorials but you know what it's like - what seems straightforward on paper isn't so easy when you actually come to do it :)
Hi Martin,
As you may have seen on other threads I have played around with REW to try and improve the listening experience in SQ in my slightly challenging room, large glass windows each side of a rectangle. Having worked in a Sound and Vibration lab many years ago I had some acoustics measurement knowledge up front but I am no expert or a sound engineer. What REW did enable me to do in this house and the previous one was identify where things were bad acoustically. Mainly reverb and certain frequencies and re-enforced bass. I spent some weeks experimenting with materials and temporary wall hangings until I got what I thought was the best result I could and still be acceptable to Sue, SWMBO. It is a worth while thing to do IMHO to get the most you can from your room and setup.
First I would go to the Room Sim and enter your room dimensions and speaker positions, and 2 mic positions one for each ear. This will result in a frequency graph which will estimate the Frequency response 20hz to 300hz, you can now play around with speaker positions and listening positions trying to get a reasonably flat response, you can drag the head and speakers and see the graph change in real time. Once you have and idea of the best speaker and listening position onto the next step below.
The easiest and most effective thing to use in REW are Reverb time RT60 and EDT(Estimated Time Delay). https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/graph_rt60.html To do this after setting up your microphone at your listening position and calibrating it, you do this by playing a 20-20hz sweep from your computer through your hifi and recording it with REW, there is a simple help on how to calibrate the mic.
Next take a frequency sweep with your room as it is normally and when done look at RT60, look at the EDT graph and what you would like to see is that across the frequency sweep that it stays below 300ms, the lower the better, but all a zero would sound very dead. So you can then adjust speaker position, listening position and room treatments and take further sweep readings and compare results until you get it as best as you can. I would use your ears as well by listening to only a couple of tracks that have clear drums, bass, vocal, and 2 or 3 other instruments, you should hear changes as you go, some subtle and others more prominent.
One thing that can really help with acoustics in a room are curtains or a book case behind the listening position, I put CD shelving there with gapping, and soft furnishings dotted about, mirrors, TVs and other hard surfaces are not great. Any thing on the other walls to stop reflections helps, I purchased a couple of 60cm by 60cm simple pictures from TK Max and put 30mm of acoustic foam in the frames behind them, and put on the wall behind the speaker, it helped. As most acoustic sites will tell you moving speakers out from the wall is best but a lot do not say how far, I found this very helpful https://www.cardas.com/system-setup if you can get close for your room you will have a good starting point. What I found surprising was how small changes could make quite big improvements. It takes a bit of trial and error, and there will be some compromise, unless you have the luxury of a dedicated listening room. Also experimenting with speaker toe in angles is very useful, I found it could improve acoustics as I could not move my speakers more that 40cm out from side walls for daily use.
I suspect you might already know quite a lot of the above but hope it is helpful.
Below are examples of my room measurements
https://i.postimg.cc/50m97xKj/Screenshot-2024-01-09-at-12-36-08.png
https://i.postimg.cc/NFfsZWZD/Screenshot-2024-01-09-at-12-31-21.png
Hi Martin,
As you may have seen on other threads I have played around with REW to try and improve the listening experience in SQ in my slightly challenging room, large glass windows each side of a rectangle. Having worked in a Sound and Vibration lab many years ago I had some acoustics measurement knowledge up front but I am no expert or a sound engineer. What REW did enable me to do in this house and the previous one was identify where things were bad acoustically. Mainly reverb and certain frequencies and re-enforced bass. I spent some weeks experimenting with materials and temporary wall hangings until I got what I thought was the best result I could and still be acceptable to Sue, SWMBO. It is a worth while thing to do IMHO to get the most you can from your room and setup.
First I would go to the Room Sim and enter your room dimensions and speaker positions, and 2 mic positions one for each ear. This will result in a frequency graph which will estimate the Frequency response 20hz to 300hz, you can now play around with speaker positions and listening positions trying to get a reasonably flat response, you can drag the head and speakers and see the graph change in real time. Once you have and idea of the best speaker and listening position onto the next step below.
The easiest and most effective thing to use in REW are Reverb time RT60 and EDT(Estimated Time Delay). https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/graph_rt60.html To do this after setting up your microphone at your listening position and calibrating it, you do this by playing a 20-20hz sweep from your computer through your hifi and recording it with REW, there is a simple help on how to calibrate the mic.
Next take a frequency sweep with your room as it is normally and when done look at RT60, look at the EDT graph and what you would like to see is that across the frequency sweep that it stays below 300ms, the lower the better, but all a zero would sound very dead. So you can then adjust speaker position, listening position and room treatments and take further sweep readings and compare results until you get it as best as you can. I would use your ears as well by listening to only a couple of tracks that have clear drums, bass, vocal, and 2 or 3 other instruments, you should hear changes as you go, some subtle and others more prominent.
One thing that can really help with acoustics in a room are curtains or a book case behind the listening position, I put CD shelving there with gapping, and soft furnishings dotted about, mirrors, TVs and other hard surfaces are not great. Any thing on the other walls to stop reflections helps, I purchased a couple of 60cm by 60cm simple pictures from TK Max and put 30mm of acoustic foam in the frames behind them, and put on the wall behind the speaker, it helped. As most acoustic sites will tell you moving speakers out from the wall is best but a lot do not say how far, I found this very helpful https://www.cardas.com/system-setup if you can get close for your room you will have a good starting point. What I found surprising was how small changes could make quite big improvements. It takes a bit of trial and error, and there will be some compromise, unless you have the luxury of a dedicated listening room. Also experimenting with speaker toe in angles is very useful, I found it could improve acoustics as I could not move my speakers more that 40cm out from side walls for daily use.
I suspect you might already know quite a lot of the above but hope it is helpful.
Below are examples of my room measurements
https://i.postimg.cc/50m97xKj/Screenshot-2024-01-09-at-12-36-08.png
https://i.postimg.cc/NFfsZWZD/Screenshot-2024-01-09-at-12-31-21.png
Thanks Ade - I do already have a fair bit of passive treatment, just to cure obvious issues like bounce from bare corners. Plus lots of thick curtains and carpet plus rugs on top.
I can't put the speakers anywhere other than where they are - it is effectively a dedicated room but windows, doors, chimney breasts, stairs all get in the way. So I am relying on the PEQ to make any changes.
With it being a large room there's no issue with bass boom or anything like that.
Mainly doing this as I got in an argument with some youngsters on another forum who reckoned it was impossible to get a good sound without DRC. I pointed out that us oldies had no option of DSP for most of our audio careers so we had to learn how to pick speakers for the room, treat the room and so on. They just plonk any old thing down anywhere and twiddle a few knobs.
Anyway they upshot was they wanted to see how it measured and ofc I had to confess I have never done that. So I am hoping it looks mint right off the bat :)
AJSki2fly
09-01-2024, 21:54
Thanks Ade - I do already have a fair bit of passive treatment, just to cure obvious issues like bounce from bare corners. Plus lots of thick curtains and carpet plus rugs on top.
I can't put the speakers anywhere other than where they are - it is effectively a dedicated room but windows, doors, chimney breasts, stairs all get in the way. So I am relying on the PEQ to make any changes.
With it being a large room there's no issue with bass boom or anything like that.
Mainly doing this as I got in an argument with some youngsters on another forum who reckoned it was impossible to get a good sound without DRC. I pointed out that us oldies had no option of DSP for most of our audio careers so we had to learn how to pick speakers for the room, treat the room and so on. They just plonk any old thing down anywhere and twiddle a few knobs.
Anyway they upshot was they wanted to see how it measured and ofc I had to confess I have never done that. So I am hoping it looks mint right off the bat :)
I expect as you have used your ears and years of musical training listening to your collection it will be spot on, for your ears at least.[emoji2] it be interesting to see any measurements you do if you get tempted.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Been having a bit of a play with the parametric EQ.
Put in a 1dB dip right across the midrange, now going to have a listen and see what effect it has.
Done this before with analogue EQ and it gave a more relaxed sound (think I do have a bit of a midrange lift due to speakers and room).
Was iistening to some jazz yesterday and thought it was just a little bit bright and bass-shy so hoping this will correct that.
PEQ in action:
https://i.ibb.co/jv2xnwV/EQ.jpg (https://ibb.co/xS0cxgm)
I left the bass flat, put in a 1dB dip across the mids centered on 1Khz, with a bit of positive Q to reduce the bandwidth it covers. I messed about a bit with the slope on that too (which changes how steeply the cut rolls in) but couldn't hear a difference with that.
Then I put in a 0.5dB boost centered around 10Khz with zero Q for the 'air and space'. That barely shows on the on-screen graph, but it's there.
Handily you can adjust all the parameters, while music is playing, from the listening chair using the remote control.
it's a nifty bit of kit given it's from 35 years ago.
Pigmy Pony
15-01-2024, 09:27
That is quite nifty. All things considered, does this look like a keeper, or is it too early to tell? Overall, how does it compare to the Philips?
I have the use of a Klark Technik DM360 30-way 1/3 octave equaliser. It is purely analogue and the smallest lift/cut that can be applied is about +/- 0.5dB.
I have only ever applied changes of no more than +/- 1dB, covering various parts of the audio spectrum of 32Hz - 20kHz. In all cases audible changes were apparent, but none were obviously 'better'. So I just left things as they were: flat across the spectrum, and removed the equaliser from my system.
Pigmy Pony
15-01-2024, 11:42
I have the use of a Klark Technik DM360 30-way 1/3 octave equaliser. It is purely analogue and the smallest lift/cut that can be applied is about +/- 0.5dB.
I have only ever applied changes of no more than +/- 1dB, covering various parts of the audio spectrum of 32Hz - 20kHz. In all cases audible changes were apparent, but none were obviously 'better'. So I just left things as they were: flat across the spectrum, and removed the equaliser from my system.
I suppose that's how it is, you can't 'fix' something that isn't broken. And it looks like your system already sounds right, so...
I think Macca has a Klark Technik equaliser, but maybe the connections (balanced) aren't compatible with his kit. I'm sure he'll be along come tea time.
Interesting exercise I am sure but using EQ to "improve" aspects of the sound may result in unwanted headaches as you would almost need to do it for every recording?:sofa:
That is quite nifty. All things considered, does this look like a keeper, or is it too early to tell? Overall, how does it compare to the Philips?
As it stands I prefer the Topping with the Philips. But want to explore what I can do with the EQ first. Only just started playing about to get a feel for it at the moment.
Interesting exercise I am sure but using EQ to "improve" aspects of the sound may result in unwanted headaches as you would almost need to do it for every recording?:sofa:
The idea is to use it to smooth the in room response from the speakers, to eliminate any unwanted peaks - Get that right and all recordings should sound more or less how they're supposed to.
Peaks in the mid and top usually sound bad and peaks in the bass create boom, or uneven bass, so the outcome should always be better SQ regardless of how bad the recording is.
You could mess with it for every recording but that's not what it's for. And I'm way too idle to be bothered to do that anyway.
As it stands I prefer the Topping with the Philips. But want to explore what I can do with the EQ first. Only just started playing about to get a feel for it at the moment.
dare say if you find a setting that is best you may be able transfer that to using physical things to produce similar results
The idea is to use it to smooth the in room response from the speakers, to eliminate any unwanted peaks - Get that right and all recordings should sound more or less how they're supposed to.
Peaks in the mid and top usually sound bad and peaks in the bass create boom, or uneven bass, so the outcome should always be better SQ regardless of how bad the recording is.
You could mess with it for every recording but that's not what it's for. And I'm way too idle to be bothered to do that anyway.
I can see that is the correct thing to do and a good place to get your system/ room EQ right.
I remember using an EQ in my system way back when they were very popular - even had them in cars if you can recount back that far. Glorified tone controls to be fair.
I can remember when Naim made a big fuss about their preamps not having tone controls, as in their opinion they were crude and interfered with the sound.
Actually the real and original reason why the preamps did not have tone controls was because Naim expected users of their preamps to use them with a graphic equaliser. But you have to go way back to their original marketing literature to read that.
I can remember when Naim made a big fuss about their preamps not having tone controls, as in their opinion they were crude and interfered with the sound.
Actually the real and original reason why the preamps did not have tone controls was because Naim expected users of their preamps to use them with a graphic equaliser. But you have to go way back to their original marketing literature to read that.
Bring back tone controls and the "loudness" button I say. I remember using a big old Sony receiver that had them and it sounded weak and thin without the loudness switched in. It sounded big, warm and lush with the loudness button on. The problem nowadays is we have all been told our equipment should not have tone controls or use equalisers because the fashion over the last 30 years was to have a flat system with a flat FR response with a theory that all recordings should be heard without alteration as that was how they were mastered but then you are relying on the vagaries of the mastering studio etc and your own in room response to your system.
I have felt over the years tone controls were a useful tool to alter frequencies at home depending on the recording I was listening too. I quite liked them on my Quad preamps.
digital parametric EQ is a lot more flexible than an analogue EQ or a tone control.
You can select different frequency zones, select any centre frequency in any zone, adjust the amount of EQ, how fast it rolls in and out and the width of the bandwidth to be adjusted. With no added noise or distortion.
My Philips pre-amp has loudness button, it just sounds stodgy with it engaged. Best sound is with the tone controls switched out too.
digital parametric EQ is a lot more flexible than an analogue EQ or a tone control.
You can select different frequency zones, select any centre frequency in any zone, adjust the amount of EQ, how fast it rolls in and out and the width of the bandwidth to be adjusted. With no added noise or distortion.
My Philips pre-amp has loudness button, it just sounds stodgy with it engaged. Best sound is with the tone controls switched out too.
I am sure your PEQ makes tone controls feel like a blunt instrument by comparison.
I am sure your PEQ makes tone controls feel like a blunt instrument by comparison.
The one I have is a blunt instrument compared to the modern ones.
The one I have is a blunt instrument compared to the modern ones.
Not fancied going DSP?
Not fancied going DSP?
DPEQ is DSP.
DPEQ is DSP.
Sorry I should have said do you fancy using something like Dirac vs PEQ?
Isn't PEQ more manual and time consuming?
Sorry I should have said do you fancy using something like Dirac vs PEQ?
Isn't PEQ more manual and time consuming?
Yes but it's better than letting the computer do it all. Although you can let it do it all then manually tweak it afterwards.
Anyway, since I'm CD only I don't have a computer hooked up to the system on a permanent basis. Don't really want that.
Yes but it's better than letting the computer do it all. Although you can let it do it all then manually tweak it afterwards.
Anyway, since I'm CD only I don't have a computer hooked up to the system on a permanent basis. Don't really want that.
Have you made some useful long term adjustments now?
Have you made some useful long term adjustments now?
No not been near it since the weekend. I'll muck about with it some more on Saturday.
No not been near it since the weekend. I'll muck about with it some more on Saturday.
I can imagine it takes a fair bit of mucking about to hear the differences made and work out what sounds best?
I'm torn between two stools at the moment
Topping/Phillips is well balanced and it has the groove factor but it's slightly dark while the Sony is more forensic, it really separates everything out, loads of space, singers and acoustic instruments all existing in their own acoustic.
The recording engineers art is laid bare. But does not have as much groove. Whereas with the T/P it's not so open and clear. Not much in it but its there.
I think the Philips is the issue. It is 45 years old and was never super-fancy, whereas the Sony is a decade younger and has top-dollar everything.
Both units let the music sound pretty and 'sweet' when its supposed to, never harsh or hard, so there's that. But I want to get everything in one package.
The Sony sounds the better option from your description. For me I like space and singers/instruments all in their own acoustic. That's how my vinyl set up sounds.
Problem to work out which is more correct but then I suppose it doesn't really matter. It should be the one you prefer. There is always a compromise. It is very difficult to have everything in a system and not least a system that plays everything very well? Usually it excels in one area better than another but the goal is to have your system treat everything even handed so you can enjoy any genre of music.
Unless you are a total head banger and then that makes the decision and what system you have a simpler task?:)
The Sony sounds the better option from your description. For me I like space and singers/instruments all in their own acoustic. That's how my vinyl set up sounds.
Problem to work out which is more correct but then I suppose it doesn't really matter. It should be the one you prefer. There is always a compromise. It is very difficult to have everything in a system and not least a system that plays everything very well? Usually it excels in one area better than another but the goal is to have your system treat everything even handed so you can enjoy any genre of music.
Unless you are a total head banger and then that makes the decision and what system you have a simpler task?:)
Good with rock is my number one priority but I listen to pretty much everything except classical.
I notice people who are into orchestral music often go for leftfield speakers - omni, horns, panels, electrostatics. So maybe that sort of music benefits from special treatment. But have usually found - good on rock = good on all types of popular music, and jazz too.
I think rock is hardest type of music to reproduce well, (maybe not as hard as orchestral?) so if it can make a good fist of that everything else is a given. At least that's been my experience.
Good with rock is my number one priority but I listen to pretty much everything except classical.
I notice people who are into orchestral music often go for leftfield speakers - omni, horns, panels, electrostatics. So maybe that sort of music benefits from special treatment. But have usually found - good on rock = good on all types of popular music, and jazz too.
I think rock is hardest type of music to reproduce well, (maybe not as hard as orchestral?) so if it can make a good fist of that everything else is a given. At least that's been my experience.
Yeah I tend to agree with you there that classical orientated folk tend to go for more etherial left field speakers where as Rock is really about trying to get a Marshall PA system to work in your room and control it? Loads of power, punchy bass and massive dynamic ability. Refinement would be lower down the list I feel?
Well I have been using electrostatics for near on the last 50 years. Clearly they are not the best speakers to use for rock: they are limited in both maximum SPL and with frequency response (in my case 97dB peak and 40Hz to 18kHz in response (-3dB points and asymptotic to -18dB/octave)); but what they do, they do with very good fidelity: very, very low THD; and with sufficient SPL to shake the floorboards.
I enjoy an absurd range of musical tastes, and whilst there maybe better speakers for certain genres of music, I'm so used to my speakers, and content with them, they will see me out.
Well I have been using electrostatics for near on the last 50 years. Clearly they are not the best speakers to use for rock: they are limited in both maximum SPL and with frequency response (in my case 97dB peak and 40Hz to 18kHz in response (-3dB points and asymptotic to -18dB/octave)); but what they do, they do with very good fidelity: very, very low THD; and with sufficient SPL to shake the floorboards.
I enjoy an absurd range of musical tastes, and whilst there maybe better speakers for certain genres of music, I'm so used to my speakers, and content with them, they will see me out.
You have similar room to me, very long, so ideal for dipole speakers to work their best. I read that Peter Walker would always try to get a long room at a show and set up the ESL a third down and right against the side walls, listening spot a third in. He reckoned this gave the best top to bottom performance for both the original and the '63'
Orange colour flymo power cable for the speaker cable ofc. :)
started listening again today with the PEQ in the same place I left off last time.
First thing up 'Tuesday Night Music Club' which I've not heard before except the singles and those only on lofi radios.
Jaw dropping! Maybe I got this right first time?
Follow up with Jimmy Page 'Outrider' - now I've had this in one form or another since it came out about 85 or something, it's a hard one to get right, Jimmy's trademark 'bright' production and all.
Jaw dropping! The reverb and decay on the low notes is really something. Was hoping dropping the mids down a fraction might bring this out but this is better than I expected. Maybe I just dropped lucky with these two productions though. Time will tell.
Took a snap with the flash on:
https://i.ibb.co/qB8xckv/20240120-143337.jpg (https://ibb.co/Y2Sb1px)
Still playing around with the PEQ. Now got a bass shelf 1dB up centred on 80Khz with a low Q.
Actually best improvement seems to have come from raising the digital input level a little, which seems to have added a bit of 'bite'.
Here's a shot of the rear - most of the inputs are for VCRs (yes video recorders!) - six of them. But there is a mono subwoofer out option so might try that if I can find a compatible sub.
https://i.ibb.co/1T1hPfK/20240204-092742.jpg (https://ibb.co/kXjkwg0)
What is the digital voltage input at the moment?
What is the digital voltage input at the moment?
-9db. It's attenuation with 0db being maximum input. Think it was at -12dB as default.
I've pretty much finished with my evaluation of this pre-amp, with the PEQ and all.
End result after trying all manner of combinations of EQ is that I prefer it with it switched out.
This might be because I don't really know what I'm doing with it, or might be because I'd got it fairly right with the whole speaker/room thing already and there's no need for the EQ.
Whatever, there it is.
It has greater clarity than the Philips pre, that's my take-away. It also need to be running at higher levels to sound 'balanced' - in other words you have to crank it a little bit more than the Philips, at lower volume it seems a bit bass light by comparison.
The only adjustment I've kept is that I lowered the amount of attenuation on the digital input by 3dB which did seem to add a bit more body and bite. Might be if I lowered this some more I wouldn't need to crank the volume as much, I don't know. Obviously you can only go so far before you risk the dreaded digital clipping.
After playing around with my Klark Technik equaliser I decided that whilst small changes to the mid range response (no more than +/- 0.5dB) were readily noticeable, they weren't necessarily better, just different. So in the end I removed the equaliser from my system.
Also I am not sure what the equaliser does to the phase/time response; which is just as important.
Anyway, to follow the architect Mies van de Rohe's dictum: "the less is more", which can apply as much to audio reproduction as it can to architecture.
I don't buy into the theory that phase is so important. The evidence is against it. I mean how many tracks in a mix, were they all recorded in phase? Then you've got reflected sound, or moving your head a couple of inches. What do they do to phase coherence?
It's not totally irrelevant, but it's usually just used as an excuse to sell bad speakers. Although coincidentally both sets of speaker I have in use are phase coherent designs.
Phase coherent speakers? If you look at tone burst oscillograms taken at various frequencies, they are not time coherent. Some speakers are better than others, but even if the acoustic centre of the drive units are physically coplanar, the cross over network can spoil things.
In my case with Quad ESLs, the panels are physically coplanar, but there is a cross over network that feeds them. However I'm told that the ESLs have very good time coherence.
What happens in the recording studio is irrelevant, what matters is the accurate replay of the subsequent recording.
Decided I'd revisit the PEQ
When I had that midrange dip dialled in I noticed I'd listen to maybe six or seven albums before I've had enough music for the day - but with PEQ switched out I'll only listen to two or three before I'm feeling done.
Was playing an old Donald Byrd album from 1964 and found I was having to crank the volume right down so it didn't sound too strident. So that has prompted me that things could be better.
So gone back to PEQ only this time with a higher Q to narrow the bandwidth it operates across. Hopefully this will reduce that bit of midrange peakiness without killing the life in the sound.
Interesting the difference between q of 0.14 and 0.2 centred on 1Khz with just -1db of adjustment. Switching from 0.14 to 0.2 like lifting a blanket off the vocal mic.
You can see on this chart from the manual the range the different Q settings covers:
https://i.ibb.co/0K5s0JN/peq.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
I don't think it will need too much more tweaking to get it just right. He says.
well so far no extra tweaking needed. Just a 0.5 dB dip centred on 1KHz with Q of 0.2 (the minimum possible with this PEQ) is like getting a speaker upgrade.
A fairly wide variety of music played and not encountered any issues, everything seems enhanced. Small details are cleaner and clearer and instrumental tone is improved too. It's richer and more vibrant.
I'm guessing that just implementing this slight notch filter is removing a peak that was having a masking effect but isn't radical enough to kill the life like it did when I used a Q of 0.07 and pulled down a much wider bandwidth.
Wanted to refer back to the anechoic measurements of my speakers done by Stereophile back in June 2002 but the link I had saved no longer works. Went to the 'American Radio History' site where most of the back issues are saved down as pdf and they've been taken down.
So had to order a copy of the June 2002 issue off of eBay. Oh well.
Have to say this Sony pre-amp is one of the best bits of kit I've ever bought.
Good stuff Martin. I have been playing around with some EQ software myself recently but pretty basic stuff. I think any adjustments certainly come down to personal preference and what you perceive to be correct. Everything you listen to has already been EQ'd to death so re-adjusting for your own equipment and listening environment is a very personal experience.
Good to be able to adjust stuff but I would find I would need to adjust my EQ for ever recording I listened too!
Good stuff Martin. I have been playing around with some EQ software myself recently but pretty basic stuff. I think any adjustments certainly come down to personal preference and what you perceive to be correct. Everything you listen to has already been EQ'd to death so re-adjusting for your own equipment and listening environment is a very personal experience.
Good to be able to adjust stuff but I would find I would need to adjust my EQ for ever recording I listened too!
The trick is really is to just use the EQ as subtly as possible to fix any obvious problem. And then resist the temptation to mess with it any further!
If you get it right the vast majority of professional recordings should sound somewhere between good and excellent, so hopefully you won't feel the need to keep adjusting.
Having the anechoic measurements of your speakers is very handy to give you an idea of where to start experimenting if you want to try adjusting in the mids and top. Bear in mind there may be nothing that needs fixing!
The trick is really is to just use the EQ as subtly as possible to fix any obvious problem. And then resist the temptation to mess with it any further!
If you get it right the vast majority of professional recordings should sound somewhere between good and excellent, so hopefully you won't feel the need to keep adjusting.
Having the anechoic measurements of your speakers is very handy to give you an idea of where to start experimenting if you want to try adjusting in the mids and top. Bear in mind there may be nothing that needs fixing!
I think the tricky bit is dialling in your speakers into your room acoustics so even if you know the speakers anechoic measurements they may not be that helpful when you add up all the other variable.... amplifier performance, room nodes etc?
I think the tricky bit is dialling in your speakers into your room acoustics so even if you know the speakers anechoic measurements they may not be that helpful when you add up all the other variable.... amplifier performance, room nodes etc?
That depends on how tricky a room you have, I think the amplifier is pretty trivial to get right compared to room and speakers. Your room looks large enough not to have any serious issues with low frequencies, likewise with mine.
I don't feel any need to use EQ in the bass, the opposite of many people where their issues are in the LF.
What I'm doing is akin to turning the treble control a tiny bit to the left. Except a treble control takes a machete to the FR, taking off an arm, whereas the PEQ is like a scalpel and can cut exactly the right amount out.
I increased my treble by +2db recently and it has significantly improved the whole performance from the speakers/system. My room acoustic work knocked a bit of the top end off I am sure but adding 2db treble back in has compensated for this. The room treatment just stopped a lot of the first reflections and subsequent image/detail smearing and echo flutters. Fixing these did however take a bit of top end away.
Its a fine balance with all these things so having precise control over the EQ treble performance must be very useful.
Wanted to refer back to the anechoic measurements of my speakers done by Stereophile back in June 2002 but the link I had saved no longer works. Went to the 'American Radio History' site where most of the back issues are saved down as pdf and they've been taken down.
So had to order a copy of the June 2002 issue off of eBay. Oh well.
Copy of Stereophile arrived but they sent me the December 2022 issue by mistake.
Can see how it happened as the covers of both issues are very similar in colour. I'm told June will be sent this week.
Copy of Stereophile arrived but they sent me the December 2022 issue by mistake.
Can see how it happened as the covers of both issues are very similar in colour. I'm told June will be sent this week.
Ah that's annoying.
Ah that's annoying.
Indeed. Not as annoying as them taking down all the back issues of Stereophile. Hi-Fi News also got taken down.
Happily I'd already read them all :) but they were useful for reference purposes. Only a small percentage of their loudspeaker reviews are available on their website.
Got the right issue of Stereophile and it does have a long review of the speakers, but no measurements.
So now I've got no idea where I saw them or if I even ever did. Oh well.
So carried on tweaking the PEQ by ear and think I've got it spot on now.
As well as the notch at 1Khz I've now added a little bit of boost (0.3dB) between 5Khz and 8Khz just to add a bit of extra sheen to cymbals and that. I did have it on 0.5dB but that sounded a bit 'obvious' so I dialled it back.
Totally enamoured with this PEQ, it really is like a speaker upgrade. Should have tried it years ago.
Got the right issue of Stereophile and it does have a long review of the speakers, but no measurements.
So now I've got no idea where I saw them or if I even ever did. Oh well.
So carried on tweaking the PEQ by ear and think I've got it spot on now.
As well as the notch at 1Khz I've now added a little bit of boost (0.3dB) between 5Khz and 8Khz just to add a bit of extra sheen to cymbals and that. I did have it on 0.5dB but that sounded a bit 'obvious' so I dialled it back.
Totally enamoured with this PEQ, it really is like a speaker upgrade. Should have tried it years ago.
Encouraging me to get one myself. Why leave EQ up to the equipment designers and mastering engineers when you can do it yourself and far more relevant in your own acoustic enviroment!:)
Encouraging me to get one myself. Why leave EQ up to the equipment designers and mastering engineers when you can do it yourself and far more relevant in your own acoustic enviroment!:)
One here - Fairly close to you in Kiddy.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226120009180?
Means giving up your valves though!
There's pro units from Citronic, Behringer and such but they are a bit harder to integrate into domestic set up especially if like me you don't used balanced inputs and outputs. Not as easy to set up as the one in the Sony either, but it's not rocket science.
Some DACs have them like RME but a bit more expensive even s/h.
One here - Fairly close to you in Kiddy.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226120009180?
Means giving up your valves though!
There's pro units from Citronic, Behringer and such but they are a bit harder to integrate into domestic set up especially if like me you don't used balanced inputs and outputs. Not as easy to set up as the one in the Sony either, but it's not rocket science.
Some DACs have them like RME but a bit more expensive even s/h.
Maybe a step too far giving the valves up. But that looks a good price for a piece of kit like that. Maybe it would work in a digital set up where I am not relying on the valves so much?:)
Maybe a step too far giving the valves up. :)
Thought it might be!
You'd have to digitise the signal from your TT too. There's an MM phonostage built in, but I've not tried it.
Paid £350 for mine - absolute bargain of the century. I might bid on that one so I have a spare.
Thought it might be!
You'd have to digitise the signal from your TT too. There's an MM phonostage built in, but I've not tried it.
Paid £350 for mine - absolute bargain of the century. I might bid on that one so I have a spare.
Does look cheap Martin?
Does look cheap Martin?
I doubt Sony could sell these units these days, at a profit, for less than four grand retail. And that would be made in China or Malaysia whereas these were made in Japan during the golden era.
I doubt Sony could sell these units these days, at a profit, for less than four grand retail. And that would be made in China or Malaysia whereas these were made in Japan during the golden era.
I think your estimate is about right. How much were they new BTW:scratch:
I think your estimate is about right. How much were they new BTW:scratch:
Good question, I'll see if I can find out.
That wasn't easy. Found a list price of 2000 DM in 1990 - so that was £700 at the time or £1650 in today's money.
Big used furniture shop at the end of the street I pass everyday on the way to work.
Spied yesterday that they had a CD tower in there. Badly in need of another one so I went in there early this morning to buy it. Sold already! I mean WTAF?
Had a look through the CDs while I was there although I cleaned it out only a couple of months back. Absolute wall to wall crap, probably the worst charity shop collection I ever saw. Loads of Daniel O'Donell, Lighthouse Family, Beautiful South, Tom Jones, James Blunt, and Robbie Williams.
Someone must have bought some of the Williams albums as there were loads more of them last time I was in there. They had some vinyl too, absolute shite. Pretty much every album by Des O'Conner and Lonnie Donegan at a quid a go.
I bet they will stay there until the end of time. Oh, and there was a Bay City Rollers LP that they wanted five quid for!
I made the same mistake - espied a couple of IKEDA-like CD towers in a BHF furniture charity shop in town. Measured the dimensions and went home to see if they would fit. They would have, so returned to the shop an hour or so later, only to find they had been sold! I could have kicked myself as they only wanted £5 each.
Didn't make the same mistake - weeks later there were three more for the same price. I snapped them up, there and then.
Regarding CDs, the best charity shops are Oxfam, especially in London. I look for stuff that is new to me and looks interesting. At 50p a pop, it's worth taking a punt. Of the dozens I have bought, only a few have been returned.
I made the same mistake - espied a couple of IKEDA-like CD towers in a BHF furniture charity shop in town. Measured the dimensions and went home to see if they would fit. They would have, so returned to the shop an hour or so later, only to find they had been sold! I could have kicked myself as they only wanted £5 each.
Didn't make the same mistake - weeks later there were three more for the same price. I snapped them up, there and then.
Regarding CDs, the best charity shops are Oxfam, especially in London. I look for stuff that is new to me and looks interesting. At 50p a pop, it's worth taking a punt. Of the dozens I have bought, only a few have been returned.
Trouble is I live in a place where even the charity shops close down. The Oxfam went years ago, before people started dumping their CDs. They did have some vinyl but again it was all Doonican and similar tat.
Pigmy Pony
22-06-2024, 17:34
I doubt there are any living Des O'Connor and Doonican fans any more. All that charity shop crap is coming from next of kin who think foisting them on to us via the charity shops is "what dad would have wanted". Er no.
But give it another twenty or thirty years and these charity shops may well be filled with worthless tat from the likes of Bob Dylan, Rolling Stones, while the more "with it" Oxfam shops will be the place to go for more recent gems from Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Roxy Music. Because that was what I had really wanted, and my dying wish for my kids to keep and play them was just me having a final laugh.
Wakefield Turntables
22-06-2024, 17:38
At 50p a pop, it's worth taking a punt. Of the dozens I have bought, only a few have been returned.
You return 50p CD's? Hopefully not for a refund!!! I always return my old duff LP's to the charity so they can be sold again to make more money for the charity.
Wakefield Turntables
22-06-2024, 17:44
They had some vinyl too, absolute shite. Pretty much every album by Des O'Conner and Lonnie Donegan at a quid a go.
I bet they will stay there until the end of time. Oh, and there was a Bay City Rollers LP that they wanted five quid for!
I'm a bit luckier. I can still pick up the odd DECCA SXL occasionally some Jazz stuff. Some of the better stuff is priced accordingly but even then the quality of the vinyl itself leaves a lot to be desired. I'd sooner support the local 2nd hand record shops.
I'm a bit luckier. I can still pick up the odd DECCA SXL occasionally some Jazz stuff. Some of the better stuff is priced accordingly but even then the quality of the vinyl itself leaves a lot to be desired. I'd sooner support the local 2nd hand record shops.
Our second hand record shop is insane. Ask Steve he's been in there. So much stock you can hardly move.
Well worth a visit but if you want to go through the lot allow a whole day.
You return 50p CD's? Hopefully not for a refund!!! I always return my old duff LP's to the charity so they can be sold again to make more money for the charity.
No, of course not. They may however go to a different charity shop; it depends on what I'm doing at the time and what is most convenient.
Anyway my local Oxfam is doing rather well - in the last couple of weeks I have donated a couple of hundred CDs and about 50 DVDs.
Wakefield Turntables
22-06-2024, 20:42
That's the spirit!
I'm a bit luckier. I can still pick up the odd DECCA SXL occasionally some Jazz stuff. Some of the better stuff is priced accordingly but even then the quality of the vinyl itself leaves a lot to be desired. I'd sooner support the local 2nd hand record shops.
Decca SXLs? No problem, my local Oxfam has plenty of them. But they will probably ask £20 - £30 for each LP.
They're not stupid - the guy who looks after the stock always checks the value on-line and prices them accordingly. Trouble is the physical condition of the vinyl is rarely taken into account. :doh:
Pigmy Pony
23-06-2024, 06:16
Our second hand record shop is insane. Ask Steve he's been in there. So much stock you can hardly move.
Well worth a visit but if you want to go through the lot allow a whole day.
One-way system, not wide enough to let two people pass. And viewing stuff lower down means bending sideways - if you don't, the best girdle in the world wouldn't keep your arse from causing a vinyl avalanche. Guy probably has at least one copy of everything that's ever been made, but we'll never know :doh:
We will. hopefully. as last time I was in there he said he was getting it all sorted.
Another CD tower has appeared in the charity shop at the end of the street.
See if I can get in there Saturday early doors and beat my unknown rival to it.
I could do with three more myself.
New speaker day is now in my future:
https://i.ibb.co/DKk7rtc/faital.jpg (https://ibb.co/5cv5K6p)
Pigmy Pony
16-08-2024, 20:21
New speaker day is now in my future:
https://i.ibb.co/DKk7rtc/faital.jpg (https://ibb.co/5cv5K6p)
What are we looking at there? Can't see a badge on them or anything.
What are we looking at there? Can't see a badge on them or anything.
They are DIY design by Troels Graveson http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC-15.htm
Thought I had put a link but no.
I'm not building them myself though so they should be good.
Ali Tait
16-08-2024, 21:45
Proper!
Pigmy Pony
16-08-2024, 22:00
They are DIY design by Troels Graveson http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC-15.htm
Thought I had put a link but no.
I'm not building them myself though so they should be good.
Is it Jason, the bloke who does the Ektas?
What is the size of the woofer?
Is it Jason, the bloke who does the Ektas?
Yes it is.
What is the size of the woofer?
They're fifteens.
They look like they could move some air! Nice to have some decent sized woofers!
Pigmy Pony
17-08-2024, 06:14
Fridge size!
When you say New Speaker Day is 'in your future', how imminent are we talking? Be handy to know before I go booking any foreign holidays :)
Interesting that the blurb says you can choose to have the ports at the front or back. Would there not be an audible difference? If not I suppose it would come down to aesthetics. Anyway with your room I'd imagine rear-firing wouldn't be a problem.
Fridge size!
When you say New Speaker Day is 'in your future', how imminent are we talking? Be handy to know before I go booking any foreign holidays :)
Interesting that the blurb says you can choose to have the ports at the front or back. Would there not be an audible difference? If not I suppose it would come down to aesthetics. Anyway with your room I'd imagine rear-firing wouldn't be a problem.
I think maybe late September at the earliest for delivery. There's a bit of a queue.
Ports back or front is just aesthetics, it doesn't matter unless you want to jam the speaker right against the wall.
Pigmy Pony
17-08-2024, 06:37
I think maybe late September at the earliest for delivery. There's a bit of a queue.
Ports back or front is just aesthetics, it doesn't matter unless you want to jam the speaker right against the wall.
What, a queue for completion and delivery, or for visitors? I'm hoping to get a seat on the first coach... seriously I'm well excited for you mate, I know it's been your next thing for some time now.
It's a bit of a shot in the dark but I suppose that's more fun. Like booking a holiday to some place you've never been.
Also similar in that you book it then have to forget about it until a few hours before the taxi comes.
They will have castors fitted so I can move them next door when the time comes. With the aid of some improvised ramps, anyway.
Just checked out the dimensions of these beasts, they are as big as the ATC 150s!:eek: https://atc.audio/hi-fi/loudspeakers/classic-series/scm150/
These are going to be monsters so hope you got room mate?
Just to get an idea of their size in a room check this out. Same size woofers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANvjavUhkc&t=133s
Just checked out the dimensions of these beasts, they are as big as the ATC 150s!:eek: https://atc.audio/hi-fi/loudspeakers/classic-series/scm150/
These are going to be monsters so hope you got room mate?
Just to get an idea of their size in a room check this out. Same size woofers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANvjavUhkc&t=133s
Yes I saw your ATC vid back when you put it up. I think I have enough room.
It was these or JBL 4367 which I think are even bigger. And more than twice the cost.
Yes I saw your ATC vid back when you put it up. I think I have enough room.
It was these or JBL 4367 which I think are even bigger. And more than twice the cost.
You might just squeeze between the speakers as you walk down your room!?:)
Pigmy Pony
17-08-2024, 08:39
Yeah the JBLs are pretty much the same size, just a bit wider. I trust your new speakers will arrive with castors fitted, so you don't have to butcher your hostess trolleys.
I trust your new speakers will arrive with castors fitted, so you don't have to butcher your hostess trolleys.
No I'm keeping them mint. They'll come back in one day.
You might just squeeze between the speakers as you walk down your room!?:)
There will be a bit over 2 feet clear in the middle, I suppose it isn't ideal. I can make a bit more space and get that up to about 3 foot.
Pigmy Pony
17-08-2024, 09:32
Well you don't listen in a 'triangle' but to one side (I do similar), so I don't suppose it matters really.
Pigmy Pony
17-08-2024, 09:37
It's them bloody stairs that nick a lot of your space. Get rid and get a lift installed - I've seen them advertised on telly :)
It's them bloody stairs that nick a lot of your space. Get rid and get a lift installed - I've seen them advertised on telly :)
When I have the refurb done next year I'm putting in a spiral staircase so will free up a lot of space.
Pigmy Pony
17-08-2024, 09:59
Yes I had thought maybe spiral staircase, but not everyone likes them. Though my youngest brother has one in his lounge, and my middle brother has one in his apartment in France. They do give you a lot more space.
only problem is it would have to sit right where the speakers go.
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