View Full Version : Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder
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Stupid cables.
Day off today so thought I'd attack the hi-fi again. I've tried a lot of things trying to get back to the sound I used to have with the old Sony XB790QS - DCB1 + Krell KSA50S that was a close to perfect as I've ever heard.
Someone said to me awhile back that the 'softness' that had been driving me nuts was just the 'character' of the Krell KSA100. I suspected they had to be wrong even though my practical experience was suggesting otherwise. This wasn't 'character', it was clearly that something was sitting on the sound. It was like you could tell there was a good system in there, trying to get out, but was just falling short.
I thought I had tried everything - New CD player, nope that didn't cut it. Add one of the latest and best measuring DACs ever. Still not doing it like that old set-up. Different transports? Nope. Try different pre-amplifiers. Nothing happening. Deploy a 10 band graphic equaliser and rack up the HF a bit? Fun to play about with but still no dice.
Running out of things to try I got to thinking about interconnects and speaker cable. When I got the first Krell I was using Chord Odyssey 2. Swapping that out for some nondescript 79 strand had made a significant improvement that time. Suddenly there was body and bass to the sound. Maybe cables were the key. I've always said cables are horses for courses. So I put in the same unbranded 79 strand stuff that nowadays is in use on the TV system.
At first I thought it was maybe a little better but on extended listening the softness and lack of 'rez' to the sound was still there. Fail.
Looked through all my other speaker cables ( must be at least ten sets), but wasn't convinced any of them would help. However while I was up there I saw a whole carrier bag of interconnects so pulled out some NVA SSC that I had used for years when I had an NVA pre-amp. Something in my distant memory told me that I had got these way back when I was having a similar issue (with a completely different set up) and they'd fixed it.
So I swap them in and... well it doesn't solve the problem. In fact now it all sounds a bit weird, hard to put my finger on it but I switched the whole thing off and went and did something else instead for a bit.
Taking some kit back upstairs in vain attempt to tidy up after all the messing about, I noticed some Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable lying under the bed. Well that did not suit the Krell KSA50S at all so surely not worth the bother to try it with the KSA100ii is it? But the Chord cable does have a rep for being 'bright' and it was brightness, or rather sparkle, that was lacking. So thought I would have one last go at it, took it downstairs and plugged it in.
And bollocks, it actually does the trick.
I mean I would not believe it if I was not sat here hearing it. No more 'shushy' cymbals! There's a couple of songs that have a big cymbal crash and decay, the start of 'Where Do You Think You're Going?' on Dire Strait's 'Communique' album, a number of them on Donal Fagen's 'True Companion' and all through the 'Nightfly' of course.' So I try all of these, and yes, the proper shimmer and decay is there!
Not quite as good as on the old set up mind, that was just jaw-dropping in every respect, but at least it is there now and not just a frigging 'shush' sound. Plus the rest of the sound has opened up too, and although you'd think there must be a con-commitant drop in bass level, or quality, there isn't. That's better too.
Why would a cable that was a poor performer on one Krell be the best option on another Krell? What's that all about? Impedance? I suppose everything comes down to bloody impedance at the end of the day. But it isn't really supposed to matter with cables.
I had been toying with the idea of flogging the Chord cable as well, as it was quite expensive stuff and I figured I wouldn't have use for it ever again. There's a lesson - never sell anything!
Great news, and glad that a simple tweak has resulted in such improved sounds!:)
Did you DBA test for the difference beforehand, and 'measure' it to confirm it as being attributable to the installation of the new cables, and not simply the result of expectation bias, in order to prove to yourself that cables DO make a REAL difference, or were the results heard by yer LUGS plenty good enough as proof?;)
Marco.
Aye...
You just can't get away from system synergy...
Aye...
You just can't get away from system synergy...
Totally.
What the whole things all about and what makes it work.
Nice One Martin.
Great news, and glad that a simple tweak has resulted in such improved sounds!:)
Did you DBA test for the difference beforehand, and 'measure' it to confirm it as being attributable to the installation of the new cables, and not simply the result of expectation bias, in order to prove to yourself that cables DO make a REAL difference, or were the results heard by yer LUGS plenty good enough as proof?;)
Marco.
I would like to since that's always a possibility. It just isn't a practical proposition so I have to rely on my own flawed perception. I already had the cables lying about so at least it hasn't cost me anything to fool myself :)
If the change wasn't real I will soon find out since it won't persist if it was just psychological.
Assuming it is real it is still not quite where I want it to be. It's just a bit closer. I will try some other combinations of interconnects with the Chord speaker cable and see what happens.
if I'd never done a blind test then I would be 100% confident it was real. But I have and it is frightening how much harder it is to spot the subtle differences when you don't know which is which. All that confidence in 'I know what I hear' drops away to nothing.
On the other hand I did test using the specific 'musical occurrences' I mentioned rather than just listening generally and I'm reasonably convinced that they were better resolved than they were before.
Lol, just pullin' yer leg, daftee! At the end of the day, whatever works for YOU, works, simples. And it doesn't need 'proven':)
Remind me again though, what was the reason for you losing the sound you liked before that was so close to what you've been striving for? Essentially, you have to get back to that point somehow and take it from there.
Marco.
Lol, just pullin' yer leg, daftee! At the end of the day, whatever works for YOU, works, simples. And it doesn't need 'proven':)
Remind me again though, what was the reason for you losing the sound you liked before that was so close to what you've been striving for? Essentially, you have to get back to that point somehow and take it from there.
Marco.
The Krell KSA50S went on the fritz. And still is on the fritz, not been able to sort it due to lockdown.
Ah, I see... Now that lockdown is over though, your priority then should be to get the Krell fixed [so you can return to a happy place], as opposed to dicking around with other stuff, which at best will only provide a 'bandage effect';)
Couldn't Alan (Firebottle) pop round and have a look at it for you?:)
Marco.
Thats what I suggested a few weeks back buts its a problem for him ( bless ) to get down the 6. Alan did a great job for me the other wk, good man to have onside :).
Ah, read your post correctly now Marco, you suggest Alan goes to Martins... CHEEKY :eek: :)
Alan's a bit far away for him just to pop round. At least an hours drive each way assuming traffic is fine which on the M6 is a pretty rare event these days.
I did have the KSA50S re-built before lockdown but when I got it home it was completely dead. So it probably is something simple like a loose connection. But my usual EE is isolating as he is high risk due to various health issues so don't really want to bother him with it.
What I have now is more than adequate for enjoying music on, I'm just being picky about the resolution in the top end, that's all.
Fair enough, but have you actually contacted Alan to ask him, to allow him to make the decision? He's a helpful chap, and IME isn't averse to a trip out to bakeoffs (which in reality his visit would turn into) or to help a mate out with a problem:)
Marco.
Alan's already done me a number of such favours over the years. You can't impose on people like that. At least I don't like to. I'll get it fixed at some point, there's no rush.
Fair enough, but have you actually contacted Alan to ask him, to allow him to make the decision? He's a helpful chap, and IME isn't averse to a trip out to bakeoffs (which in reality his visit would turn into) or to help a mate out with a problem:)
Marco.. Martin s right though about the 6, :eyebrows:. Yup, cannot agree more about Alan though, and he really knows his onions
. Martin s right though about the 6, :eyebrows:. Yup, cannot agree more about Alan though, and he really knows his onions
Undoubtedly, but it's up to Alan if he wishes to tackle the traffic accordingly. Rather than attempt to second-guess it, just ask the man. He's retired now, so has plenty of time on his hands!:D;)
My uncle came down from Scotland to visit, the other day, and travelled on the M6, en-route to my house, with no traffic issues.
Marco.
The M6 is a lottery. If one or both sides of it is closed then it adds 30 to 60 minutes to my journey home from work. Even though I don't go anywhere near the M6. And that happens a lot.
Sure, but as I said, it's no biggie if you're not working and have plenty of time on your hands. He might just fancy getting out for a bit. No harm in asking him, eh? He can only say no. Nothing ventured, nothing gained:)
Marco.
The M6 is a lottery. If one or both sides of it is closed then it adds 30 to 60 minutes to my journey home from work. Even though I don't go anywhere near the M6. And that happens a lot.
Travelled from Glasgow to Woking at the weekend there to pick up a black box.
M6 was troublesome, doing roadworks atm with 50 mph limit, just hit cruise control you'll be fine.
Was an accident there too, 8 mile tailback nose to tail...fun.
Martin If I can do that in the pursuit of Hifi you can do an hour each way!
The Krell's a cracker, get it fixed!
Martin If I can do that in the pursuit of Hifi you can do an hour each way!
The Krell's a cracker, get it fixed!
Exacto:)
If you're worried about hassle for Alan, then pay him for his time and fuel. The bottom line is, you'll never get back to the sound you had until you get back to using the same amp!
Marco.
Travelled from Glasgow to Woking at the weekend there to pick up a black box.
M6 was troublesome, doing roadworks atm with 50 mph limit, just hit cruise control you'll be fine.
Was an accident there too, 8 mile tailback nose to tail...fun.
Martin If I can do that in the pursuit of Hifi you can do an hour each way!
The Krell's a cracker, get it fixed!
lol. You're a lot crazier than me...plus you've got a car. It's a bit longer than an hour each way on foot, especially carrying a 30 kilo amplifier. ;)
get it in a rucksack and jog... might shake some life into it :lol:
Firebottle
04-08-2020, 17:59
My ears are burning, oh it's you lot talking about me.
Have thought about making a trip up to Macca's, now I know it's OK I'll call in and take a look.
Could bring the Neurochrome and PGA volume control with me as well.
My ears are burning, oh it's you lot talking about me.
Have thought about making a trip up to Macca's, now I know it's OK I'll call in and take a look.
Could bring the Neurochrome and PGA volume control with me as well.
That would be great. Anytime that suits you, Alan.
My ears are burning, oh it's you lot talking about me.
Have thought about making a trip up to Macca's, now I know it's OK I'll call in and take a look.
Could bring the Neurochrome and PGA volume control with me as well.
Thats what I call telepathic pressure. Enjoy the roadworks :)
That would be great. Anytime that suits you, Alan.
Good stuff... See what happens when you're not shy in getting the word out!;)
Nice one, Alan... I believe your hourly rate has now increased by 20%:D
Marco.
And Marco's on commission... :D
Aye, and I also bagsie a wee shot on his flyin' thingy, but am no wearin' his mad-rocket troosers!:D
Marco.
Aye, and I also bagsie a wee shot on his flyin' thingy, but am no wearin' his mad-rocket troosers!:D
Marco.
What! - you mean you don't want to look like one of the Bay City Rollers? :D
What! - you mean you don't want to look like one of the Bay City Rollers? :D
Say what you like about the Bay City Roller look but they did alright with the birds though...
Yes, it's amazing how the sight of a fat wallet, and possibly something else that's 'well-packed', can cause selective blindness in women!:D
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
07-08-2020, 05:12
Yes, it's amazing how the sight of a fat wallet, and possibly something else that's 'well-packed', can cause selective blindness in women!:D
Marco.
Or in this case deafness
Krell KSA50S is working and back in the system!
Infinite thanks to Alan 'Firebottle' - I will be having a word with the Pope and get him made a Saint.
https://i.ibb.co/FzBMBfG/20200815-112836-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/VTvZvhX)
Well spoke to soon. Alan did fix the problem with it not powering up at all, which I think was just the start up board not being properly connected, but now it's warmed up the original fault I sent it to the other bloke to repair, and which he reckoned he'd fixed, has re-appeared.
Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
Bummer!
What was the original fault?
Bummer!
What was the original fault?
right channel starts intermittently crackling, then eventually drops out altogether.
Krell KSA50S is working and back in the system!
Infinite thanks to Alan 'Firebottle' - I will be having a word with the Pope and get him made a Saint.
https://i.ibb.co/FzBMBfG/20200815-112836-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/VTvZvhX)I think a more God like accolade is appropriate.
Shame he didn't get the issue when looking at it though.
walpurgis
15-08-2020, 12:19
Well spoke to soon. Alan did fix the problem with it not powering up at all, which I think was just the start up board not being properly connected, but now it's warmed up the original fault I sent it to the other bloke to repair, and which he reckoned he'd fixed, has re-appeared.
Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
That's a shame mate. Hope it's not too much aggro to sort.
That's disappointing news Martin. How does it compare with the KSA100 Mk.II ?
Hope you can get it sorted quickly.
That's disappointing news Martin. How does it compare with the KSA100 Mk.II ?
Hope you can get it sorted quickly.
I prefer it to the KSA100, at least with my current speakers. The 100 is a little bit warmer and smoother. Most Krell aficionados prefer the 100 though, as always it depends on what you're after.
That's a shame mate. Hope it's not too much aggro to sort.
+1... At this rate mate, valves would be more reliable!:D
Anyway, hope you get it sorted soon.
Marco.
Damn.
What a pisser!
Hopefully it’s an easy fix Martin, maybe the bloke who worked on it originally can shed some light on his take on the original fault, good troubleshooting info?
A crackin’ amp, well worth getting sorted.
Well spoke to soon. Alan did fix the problem with it not powering up at all, which I think was just the start up board not being properly connected, but now it's warmed up the original fault I sent it to the other bloke to repair, and which he reckoned he'd fixed, has re-appeared.
Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
Gaz, I don't know what I'm going to do with it. I'd buy another one but of course there's none for sale anywhere at any price.
In the meantime I've set up some Beovox MC120.2 being driven by the Sony 530ES integrated. You'd have to be very picky to fault the sound, unfortunately for me I am very picky. Still great speakers these, three ways with midrange dome, Volt bass drivers. The bass drivers were re-foamed by the previous owner. I've got the integral stands somewhere, couldn't be arsed to search for them though.
Note the waveguides around tweeter and mids, way ahead of the time for 1983. Allegedly one of the best speakers B&O ever made.
https://i.ibb.co/gz7xWBJ/20200816-105745-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/xJsNgR6)
Firebottle
16-08-2020, 10:23
Martin I will look at the amp for you, can't leave it not working.
Martin I will look at the amp for you, can't leave it not working.
Thanks Alan but don't want to drag you all the way up here again. Plus might be something that you can't just fix on my coffee table?
I am just waiting for my mate to replace his stolen van then I'll get him to drive me down to your place with it. How does that sound?
Firebottle
16-08-2020, 11:29
Sounds great.
Gaz, I don't know what I'm going to do with it. I'd buy another one but of course there's none for sale anywhere at any price.
In the meantime I've set up some Beovox MC120.2 being driven by the Sony 530ES integrated. You'd have to be very picky to fault the sound, unfortunately for me I am very picky. Still great speakers these, three ways with midrange dome, Volt bass drivers. The bass drivers were re-foamed by the previous owner. I've got the integral stands somewhere, couldn't be arsed to search for them though.
Note the waveguides around tweeter and mids, way ahead of the time for 1983. Allegedly one of the best speakers B&O ever made.
https://i.ibb.co/gz7xWBJ/20200816-105745-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/xJsNgR6)Excellent shot.
This picture identifies a true audiophile.
B&O speaks look quite mean;)
This picture identifies a true audiophile.
And one who keeps his CDs in little piles around the place. ;)
The CD situation has got out of hand of late. They're so cheap at the moment makes sense to snap them up. They won't be cheap forever.
Where do you tend to buy your CDs from Martin?
Keep bearing of them “going cheap” but not sure where the best source is...
ta.
Where do you tend to buy your CDs from Martin?
Keep bearing of them “going cheap” but not sure where the best source is...
ta.
Recently, 'Music Magpie'. Used ofc but not had a bad one yet and the delivery is very quick.
I get a lot from magpie too.
walpurgis
17-08-2020, 06:48
I don't buy CD's lately, but only 'cos I have what I want. Charity shops, boot sales and ebay are good cheap sources. My local charity shops are charging 50p for CDs at the moment, most are dross (not Bros, but they're dross too :)), but there's still some good stuff about.
Most of mine come from charity shops these days, though some are bought online.
The charity shops round here rarely generate a good haul. Although if you were after Robbie Williams albums you'd think otherwise.
Plus I'm duplicating my vinyl collection on CD so I'm after specific albums. Ideally not re-masters.
Maybe a good chance to widen yer horizon and go down a different musical route ? ...... I'm thinking something like Steps here
Steps...?
been there done that. :D
Be can see me getting back into CDs, the back wall in the room was full of those Ikea tall narrow CD shelf things, not to that extent though.
Been a few times where Tidal or Quobuz have lost an album I USED to have on CD, which was annoying.
MusicMagpie's a good shout Martin, cheers.
Steps...?
been there done that. :D
Been a few times where Tidal or Quobuz have lost an album I USED to have on CD, which was annoying.
.
Plus you have to take what they give you, you can't choose which mastering you want.
Plus you have to take what they give you, you can't choose which mastering you want.
Yup, and that can be annoying too.
The charity shops round here rarely generate a good haul. Although if you were after Robbie Williams albums you'd think otherwise.
Plus I'm duplicating my vinyl collection on CD so I'm after specific albums. Ideally not re-masters.
Clearly they are not from the '60s or '70s or even the '80s. They are much more recent than that, but I'm prepared to take a punt on some new acts that might be of interest to me. If I don't like it, I'll simply return it to the charity shop - but I have found some unexpected serendipitous finds.
Also, a good proportion of the charity shop CDs I buy are classical - I'm always interested in listening to different readings of classical compositions.
I reckon about 80% of my collection of well over 2,500 CDs are duplications of vinyl LPs of the '60s through to the '80s. Today you do have to be careful in choosing which mastering edition you want. A specific example being Frank Zappa's 'Hot Rats': the origininal mastering is available but you have to seek it out, otherwise the re-master (which is actually a re-mix - is that a tautology?), is easily available but is not IMO as good. Same with The Rolling Stones 'Let it Bleed'.
StingRay
19-08-2020, 14:02
[QUOTE=Barry;1214956] They are much more recent than that, but I'm prepared to take a punt on some new acts that might be of interest to me. If I don't like it, I'll simply return it to the charity shop - but I have found some unexpected serendipitous finds.
That the beauty of streaming, you don't have to take a chance and good luck finding most music in a charity shop. I can try 1,000s of different albums and sometimes i find something decent.
As for different masters and remasters they can be loads and the decent ones can be rather expensive.
Kicking myself that I used to have the Barry Diament mix Zeppelin albums on CD...
rare as rocking horse s*it and just as hard to find for a reasonable price nowadays.
Sold a lot of CDs when I went streaming...now Im thinking to get back into CDs again.
Still have 250 or so, but sold more than twice that - a lot of them quite rare or spendy.
Kinda like back in the Day when you sell your vinyl and cant get it back on CD years later...history repeats!
I might try this streaming thing. I've got Amazon Prime and now I have a DAC with a USB I suppose I could just plug the laptop into the DAC and it should work?
Should do?
Suck it n See.
Well, it's either broken or working wonderfully, and he's been so busy streaming music he's had no time to post!:D
Which is it then, daftee?;)
Marco.
Not tried it yet, as the actress said to the bishop.
Lol - so you're still living up to your name of Captain Procrastination!:D;)
Come on daftee, plug it in and see wot 'appens!
Marco.
Bit early yet. Maybe after second breakfast.
walpurgis
29-08-2020, 08:13
Bit early yet. Maybe after second breakfast.
I can't even cope with a first breakfast.
Bit early yet. Maybe after second breakfast.
Lol... Just curious to see if it works and what you think!:)
Marco.
I am too but had mates visiting all week so just haven't got round to it. Did have a bit of a listening session last night but forgot and had already got started before I remembered.
So is Amazon Prime streaming like the other things i read about tidal etc ? ....wondering if i should be using my prime as well as CDs & Vinyl ?
So is Amazon Prime streaming like the other things i read about tidal etc ? ....wondering if i should be using my prime as well as CDs & Vinyl ?
Yes it is just like Tidal or Spotify.
StingRay
29-08-2020, 09:28
Kicking myself that I used to have the Barry Diament mix Zeppelin albums on CD...
rare as rocking horse s*it and just as hard to find for a reasonable price nowadays.
Sold a lot of CDs when I went streaming...now Im thinking to get back into CDs again.
Still have 250 or so, but sold more than twice that - a lot of them quite rare or spendy.
Kinda like back in the Day when you sell your vinyl and cant get it back on CD years later...history repeats!
It works both ways, trouble I found buying cds is the sound is not always the best and often a better version comes out, so you can end up buying several different versions of the same cd, if you are not careful. The problem with streaming is they don't always have the album or the version you want to hear. I'm thinking of selling my CDP as I never use it now. If I want to hear a cd I can rip it and then stream it. I agree some cds are very expensive or not available. I'm going towards HiRes downloads as they are often cheaper.
StingRay
29-08-2020, 09:33
So is Amazon Prime streaming like the other things i read about tidal etc ? ....wondering if i should be using my prime as well as CDs & Vinyl ?
It is similar, but depends what device you are using, I'm trialling the Amazon HD on my Bluesound Node 2, on there it is not very good interface, in fact I would say it is bad, however the music when you do find it, is similar to others such as Tidal Qobuz and there are quite a few HiRes albums. On Prime it is £13 pm, so better value than Tidal which is £20 and Qobuz £15, it has more albums than Qobuz as well.
StingRay
29-08-2020, 09:37
I might try this streaming thing. I've got Amazon Prime and now I have a DAC with a USB I suppose I could just plug the laptop into the DAC and it should work?
It may do but you will probably have to change the settings on your laptop to bypass the soundcard. Not sure on a laptop if you need to download the App to get HiRes.
It may do but you will probably have to change the settings on your laptop to bypass the soundcard. Not sure on a laptop if you need to download the App to get HiRes.
I hadn't thought about the soundcard, will need to read up.
Yup, your not wrong there Ray.
Still keeping streaming going,
delighted with it, just been enjoying CDs again too whilst my vinyl setup is being rejigged and I’m unable to spin records.
Good to have options, enjoy em all including vinyl and even YouTube thru the system.
YouTube’s a big chunk of my listening time actually.
Sound quality can be fantastic if done right, it’s a valid streaming source.
It works both ways, trouble I found buying cds is the sound is not always the best and often a better version comes out, so you can end up buying several different versions of the same cd, if you are not careful. The problem with streaming is they don't always have the album or the version you want to hear. I'm thinking of selling my CDP as I never use it now. If I want to hear a cd I can rip it and then stream it. I agree some cds are very expensive or not available. I'm going towards HiRes downloads as they are often cheaper.
I hadn't thought about the soundcard, will need to read up.
Some day, some time.... This century, maybe...:D
The sense of apathy is palpable!
Marco.
I haven’t played a cd or record since I got the Bluesound & a three month trial of Tidal last month, it’s that good.
Some day, some time.... This century, maybe...:D
The sense of apathy is palpable!
Marco.
Got sidetracked yesterday.
I already own 90% of the albums I like on CD so there's not a massive incentive for me to access anything else. I'm just mildly curious to see if it works, and if it does, what it sounds like.
I downloaded the music player, selected an album, plays back through the laptop speakers, works through headphones too. Go to connect laptop to DAC but the USB cable I have is not compatible.
Experiment ends 1114 hrs.
Ordered USB A to B type cable, might be here on Monday or Tuesday.
I already own 90% of the albums I like on CD so there's not a massive incentive for me to access anything else.
Discovering NEW music, per chance [shock, horror]?:eek: Stuff produced post-2000... There IS life beyond Steely Dan, you know!:D
I'm just mildly curious to see if it works, and if it does, what it sounds like.
Good - so am I, and I suspect plenty others watching:cool:
Marco.
Audio Al
30-08-2020, 11:19
I have a Wadia Digital Sound Decoder and sometimes use it for youtube music , The down side is
" you are listening to a track and all of a sudden you get a advert pop up , Music stops you the listen to the add for a product you don't want then you chosen track starts again , FFS :steam: "
This has never happened with any LP's I own :D
Discovering NEW music, per chance [shock, horror]?:eek: Stuff produced post-2000... There IS life beyond Steely Dan, you know!:D
.
IMO there's very little worth bothering with after 2000. The most recent album I own came out in 2013. I often check new stuff out on You Tube, it's mostly either derivative, not my sort of thing, or just complete crap. If someone was making good music in this day and age I'd be buying it. But they don't appear to be.
There's no proper rock stars anymore. It's all clean-living mummy's boys (and girls). You can't make good music with virtue signalling and a vegan diet. It needs drink, drugs and some rock n roll ethic. All proper music was made by alcoholics or drug addicts and the very best is by the people who were both.
That world now appears to be gone, replaced by the shiny, plastic-fantastic, Disneyland-safe-space-crapola future we live in now. And the music reflects that, sadly.
StingRay
30-08-2020, 12:27
IMO there's very little worth bothering with after 2000. The most recent album I own came out in 2013. I often check new stuff out on You Tube, it's mostly either derivative, not my sort of thing, or just complete crap. If someone was making good music in this day and age I'd be buying it. But they don't appear to be.
There's no proper rock stars anymore. It's all clean-living mummy's boys (and girls). You can't make good music with virtue signalling and a vegan diet. It needs drink, drugs and some rock n roll ethic. All proper music was made by alcoholics or drug addicts and the very best is by the people who were both.
That world now appears to be gone, replaced by the shiny, plastic-fantastic, Disneyland-safe-space-crapola future we live in now. And the music reflects that, sadly.
I partly agree but there is some good music around today but you have to seek it out but it depends on your taste. Easy to find good albums in the 70s for rock but I agree today rock music does little for me, Tool, Foo Fighters and Royal Blood are ok, these days I listen more to Americana, singer songwriters and Jazz. Some artists are not well known, I don’t like mainstream stuff. The most recent album I bought was released in 2014.
StingRay
30-08-2020, 12:29
I have a Wadia Digital Sound Decoder and sometimes use it for youtube music , The down side is
" you are listening to a track and all of a sudden you get a advert pop up , Music stops you the listen to the add for a product you don't want then you chosen track starts again , FFS :steam: "
This has never happened with any LP's I own :D
Just use an adbloker then you don’t get that. LPS you can get many other issues. Not keen on YouTube, there are better resources in my opinion.
I partly agree but there is some good music around today but you have to seek it out but it depends on your taste. Easy to find good albums in the 70s for rock but I agree today rock music does little for me, Tool, Foo Fighters and Royal Blood are ok, these days I listen more to Americana, singer songwriters and Jazz. Some artists are not well known, I don’t like mainstream stuff.
Most of my listening is rock or funk. Occasionally a bit of jazz. Mostly mainstream stuff, mostly pre-1995 which for me was around the point that rock music pretty much finished.
There's one Foo Fighter's album I really rate, I found out recently it's also Dave Grohl's favourite. Tool and Royal Blood don't do much for me. Maybe it's because it's all been done before and better and there's nowhere left to go? Or maybe I'm just getting old. I don't know.
I don't do background music so I don't listen that much, maybe 10 albums a week, so there's no need for a collection of thousands of albums, 300 or so is plenty enough to not get bored. I have a decent system to play the music I like, not to embark on some voyage of discovery. There's far too much made of the supposed merits of that I think. For me that's what you do in your teens and twenties, not in your fifties.
I have a Wadia Digital Sound Decoder and sometimes use it for youtube music , The down side is
" you are listening to a track and all of a sudden you get a advert pop up , Music stops you the listen to the add for a product you don't want then you chosen track starts again , FFS :steam: "
This has never happened with any LP's I own :D
Aside the Additional full catalogue of YouTube Music and original video content (a la Netflix) you also get, it’s worth going Premium just to lose the feckin’ Ads...!
I have, Very much worth it imo.
Audio Al
30-08-2020, 13:44
Aside the Additional full catalogue of YouTube Music and original video content (a la Netflix) you also get, it’s worth going Premium just to lose the feckin’ Ads...!
I have, Very much worth it imo.
Gary , what's the cost ?
StingRay
30-08-2020, 18:24
Most of my listening is rock or funk. Occasionally a bit of jazz. Mostly mainstream stuff, mostly pre-1995 which for me was around the point that rock music pretty much finished.
There's one Foo Fighter's album I really rate, I found out recently it's also Dave Grohl's favourite. Tool and Royal Blood don't do much for me. Maybe it's because it's all been done before and better and there's nowhere left to go? Or maybe I'm just getting old. I don't know.
I don't do background music so I don't listen that much, maybe 10 albums a week, so there's no need for a collection of thousands of albums, 300 or so is plenty enough to not get bored. I have a decent system to play the music I like, not to embark on some voyage of discovery. There's far too much made of the supposed merits of that I think. For me that's what you do in your teens and twenties, not in your fifties.
I thought rock music virtually finished in the 70s, there is the odd album after that worth’s playing. For me streaming is finding new music and the variety, if you have a large collection then I can understand why you don’t need it. It’s also great if you read album some music you can just play it. It is not just recent music, I’m discovering old music also. According to Deezer I played over 2,000 tracks last month. You can also try albums out before buying, so cuts down on mistakes. I have too many cds I would never play anymore even if I did have a streamer. Without a streamer I doubt I would have heard some of my recent favourite albums.
I thought rock music virtually finished in the 70s, there is the odd album after that worth’s playing. For me streaming is finding new music and the variety, if you have a large collection then I can understand why you don’t need it. It’s also great if you read album some music you can just play it. It is not just recent music, I’m discovering old music also. According to Deezer I played over 2,000 tracks last month. You can also try albums out before buying, so cuts down on mistakes. I have too many cds I would never play anymore even if I did have a streamer. Without a streamer I doubt I would have heard some of my recent favourite albums.
See I only listen to albums, never just individual songs, and always all the way through. Might cut it off before the last song if it's just filler though. You Tube is perfectly adequate for checking out anything that is new to me whether it is current or old. Then I buy the CD.
Even new albums are only £8 so it isn't the massive outlay it was 30 years ago. And then you've essentially got the master-tape, of the version you want, forever. You can copy it to a hard-drive or just play the CD but you still have the physical copy that can't be taken away. Of about 400 CDs I have maybe 20 I probably won't play again, not a bad failure rate.
Renting music makes no sense for me but I can see how it would to someone who goes through 2000 songs a month. Assuming ten songs on an album I'd maybe get through 400 in a month. Big difference.
There's still a fair few albums I need to get to replace the vinyl, Robin Trower, Pat Travers, Montrose, Golden Earing, Creedence, just off the top of my head. And I like jazz fusion but not really scratched the surface of that yet. That's where the Amazon music will come in handy.
Anyway I already have Amazon Prime so costs me nothing extra to use their music library.
Gary , what's the cost ?
£11.99 a Month Al.
StingRay
30-08-2020, 20:28
See I only listen to albums, never just individual songs, and always all the way through. Might cut it off before the last song if it's just filler though. You Tube is perfectly adequate for checking out anything that is new to me whether it is current or old. Then I buy the CD.
Even new albums are only £8 so it isn't the massive outlay it was 30 years ago. And then you've essentially got the master-tape, of the version you want, forever. You can copy it to a hard-drive or just play the CD but you still have the physical copy that can't be taken away. Of about 400 CDs I have maybe 20 I probably won't play again, not a bad failure rate.
Renting music makes no sense for me but I can see how it would to someone who goes through 2000 songs a month. Assuming ten songs on an album I'd maybe get through 400 in a month. Big difference.
There's still a fair few albums I need to get to replace the vinyl, Robin Trower, Pat Travers, Montrose, Golden Earing, Creedence, just off the top of my head. And I like jazz fusion but not really scratched the surface of that yet. That's where the Amazon music will come in handy.
Anyway I already have Amazon Prime so costs me nothing extra to use their music library.
Just been looking at a few cds to buy, some are very expensive, one was over £100 used and £300 new. Several others were £20+. Some are not available on cd. Think the days of cheap cds are over, I used to buy some for about £1. To buy a decent collection will cost many thousands. I find YouTube to be pretty poor for choice and quality, you are better off using some of the free streaming services such as Spotify or Deezer. 400 cds is nothing, I’m not into playing the same music over and over again, I rarely play an album more than a few times a year.
StingRay
31-08-2020, 10:48
Of course there is nothing to stop you buying your favourites on cd or whatever format you want. Even if I did buy a lot of cds I would still using a streaming site to find new music and to check out the quality of the recording and to add variety, many I play I would not want to buy them.
I don't do background music either, if I did the hours of playing would be much more, I could stick it on a streaming station and leave it on but I prefer whole albums. If its on in the background then I'm not really listening to it.
Well I agree that 400 cds is nothing in the context of people who own thousands of them. I would argue that it is still a substantial collection though. When I went to university I think I had about 50 albums on vinyl and maybe the same again on tape, copied from friends. Don't recall ever being stuck for something to listen to and as poxy student I had all day every day to listen to music. But then, as now, I only listen to music if I am in the mood for it. Sometimes that is every day, sometimes a week or more can go by.
Also depends on how well sorted my system is, if I've got it on song then I listen more.
I've never been a record collector, I don't see the point in accumulating stuff for the sake of it. If I thought I was only going to play an album twice a year I probably wouldn't buy it in the first place.
I still manage to get worthwhile CDs from £1 upwards. New releases are still only around £8. I recall buying Pink Floyd 'Momentary Lapse...' in WH Smith on vinyl when it came out, and the CD was £14. That was 1985 or '86. So allow for inflation a CD should cost £42.74. So at £8 they are practically giving them away. There are some rarities I would like that are upwards of £30 but I won't pay that for a CD.
The quality of the recording is of no interest to me. I've never bought music on the basis of the production values. It's not even a remote consideration. One of the worst recordings I own is a Sam And Dave 'best of' CD. Even though it has been remastered it's still a very crude-sounding recording. That gets played all the time because it's superb music.
StingRay
31-08-2020, 12:27
Well I agree that 400 cds is nothing in the context of people who own thousands of them. I would argue that it is still a substantial collection though. When I went to university I think I had about 50 albums on vinyl and maybe the same again on tape, copied from friends. Don't recall ever being stuck for something to listen to and as poxy student I had all day every day to listen to music. But then, as now, I only listen to music if I am in the mood for it. Sometimes that is every day, sometimes a week or more can go by.
Also depends on how well sorted my system is, if I've got it on song then I listen more.
I've never been a record collector, I don't see the point in accumulating stuff for the sake of it. If I thought I was only going to play an album twice a year I probably wouldn't buy it in the first place.
I still manage to get worthwhile CDs from £1 upwards. New releases are still only around £8. I recall buying Pink Floyd 'Momentary Lapse...' in WH Smith on vinyl when it came out, and the CD was £14. That was 1985 or '86. So allow for inflation a CD should cost £42.74. So at £8 they are practically giving them away. There are some rarities I would like that are upwards of £30 but I won't pay that for a CD.
The quality of the recording is of no interest to me. I've never bought music on the basis of the production values. It's not even a remote consideration. One of the worst recordings I own is a Sam And Dave 'best of' CD. Even though it has been remastered it's still a very crude-sounding recording. That gets played all the time because it's superb music.
Well if they are bought over many years like mine then you probably don't want to play a lot of them, my tastes have changed, I rarely play my 70s music now. Before streaming I was bored with my collection, to bring it up to the variety I want I would have to add a considerably number to it. No point in buying music if you don't enjoy listening to it because the sound quality is poor. Since streaming I hardly ever play my cds, it is far easier to stream, sometimes there are better remastering as well, not keen on buying multiply versions of the same album.
I thought Amazon prime only had a very limited choice of music around 2m tracks? It is only mp3 as well. For many of the cds I may want to buy they are more than £8 new, quite a few are not available new or on cd. Even Fink's live album is not available.
walpurgis
31-08-2020, 12:42
Well I agree that 400 cds is nothing in the context of people who own thousands of them
400 is probably about the same as I own. I don't think most consider how long it would take to play even that many, let alone thousands.
on hdd ive about 1170 albums.. most will be cd.. according to audirvana it will take about 47 days non stop to play then
StingRay
31-08-2020, 13:27
If you lost all your music, how many would buy again?
Well if they are bought over many years like mine then you probably don't want to play a lot of them, my tastes have changed, I rarely play my 70s music now. Before streaming I was bored with my collection, to bring it up to the variety I want I would have to add a considerably number to it. No point in buying music if you don't enjoy listening to it because the sound quality is poor. Since streaming I hardly ever play my cds, it is far easier to stream, sometimes there are better remastering as well, not keen on buying multiply versions of the same album.
I thought Amazon prime only had a very limited choice of music around 2m tracks? It is only mp3 as well. For many of the cds I may want to buy they are more than £8 new, quite a few are not available new or on cd. Even Fink's live album is not available.
My tastes haven't changed since I was a teenager, I still listen to the same albums I bought when 15 years old, just on VD now instead of vinyl. I still live like a teenager too. Whether that's good or bad or irrelevant I can't say. I've got into other genres like jazz and soul over the years though.
A couple of 'best of' albums with massive compression aside I don't have anything recorded so poorly it is unlistenable. Finding you have lots of unlistenable recordings is a problem with the replay system. Been there, got the T shirt. Recording engineers know their job and have a reputation to protect, they don't turn out rubbish recordings. The idea that the better the system the more recordings will sound poor on it is audiophile nonsense of the worst kind IMO. You might hear some flaws or editing issues occasionally, that doesn't concern me.
Remasterings - I have a few, but I prefer to buy the original release where possible. That's 'the album' as it was intended as far as I'm concerned.
Amazon Music claims to have 60 million tracks. Standard appears to be 320 KBPs which should be indistinguishable from 16/44.1 in most cases. I've only tried it on my cheapo headphones so far but sounds okay. Will report back when the proper USB cable arrives tomorrow.
Personally I wouldn't dream of paying for a streaming service but since I already have Prime (which already more than pays for itself on delivery charge savings) I'm getting it for nothing. Nothing a month? I am happy to pay that.
If you lost all your music, how many would buy again?
Probably about 90% of what I have on CD now.
StingRay
31-08-2020, 14:13
My tastes haven't changed since I was a teenager, I still listen to the same albums I bought when 15 years old, just on VD now instead of vinyl. I still live like a teenager too. Whether that's good or bad or irrelevant I can't say. I've got into other genres like jazz and soul over the years though.
A couple of 'best of' albums with massive compression aside I don't have anything recorded so poorly it is unlistenable. Finding you have lots of unlistenable recordings is a problem with the replay system. Been there, got the T shirt. Recording engineers know their job and have a reputation to protect, they don't turn out rubbish recordings. The idea that the better the system the more recordings will sound poor on it is audiophile nonsense of the worst kind IMO. You might hear some flaws or editing issues occasionally, that doesn't concern me.
Remasterings - I have a few, but I prefer to buy the original release where possible. That's 'the album' as it was intended as far as I'm concerned.
Amazon Music claims to have 60 million tracks. Standard appears to be 320 KBPs which should be indistinguishable from 16/44.1 in most cases. I've only tried it on my cheapo headphones so far but sounds okay. Will report back when the proper USB cable arrives tomorrow.
Personally I wouldn't dream of paying for a streaming service but since I already have Prime (which already more than pays for itself on delivery charge savings) I'm getting it for nothing. Nothing a month? I am happy to pay that.
On AMazon prime it says 2m, on the Unlimited I think it is 50m.
"Amazon offers two streaming options: Prime Music and Music Unlimited. ... The main difference is that Prime music has around 2 million songs, whereas Amazon Music Unlimited has over 50 million. If you like to listen to an artist's full album, you'll want Unlimited."
Even on the Unlimited which I have on trial I'm finding quite a lot of missing albums. Doubt I will subscribe to it, only good thing is the HiRes albums.
Ah okay. 2 million is still quite a lot though.
qobuz is 15 quid for studio now and is very good value
That's two cds a month which is about how many I buy per month anyway. And I get to keep them forever. Even if the internet is down I can still play them. And I'm not at the mercy of the streaming service for what mastering I want, and I don't have to live with whatever secret sauce they put into their sound to distinguish them from other music streaming platforms (assuming they do, but even if they don't right now they could). That's basically what MQA does. I don't want that lack of control over my music, I especially don't want to pay monthly for that lack of control.
doesnt use mqa.. ive got more than enough cds now, tbh too many for usefulness i think.. i find it good and i just had to rethink what i thought i need ed to own to rent i guess.
StingRay
31-08-2020, 15:08
Ah okay. 2 million is still quite a lot though.
2m out of 60m that isnot even 4% of the content.
StingRay
31-08-2020, 15:23
How often is the internet down? We have more power cuts than internet down. You can stream offline as well, some people do that.
How often is the internet down? We have more power cuts than internet down. You can stream offline as well, some people do that.
Well never say never. I'm sure we are all familiar with E.M Forster's 'The Machine Stops.' :)
I'm not knocking anyone's decision to use a streaming service. It's just not for me.
I put the B&O M120.2 in on the TV system to replace the little JBLs. Their bigger brothers are for sale elsewhere on the forum (not by me though).
https://i.ibb.co/wrsd09H/tv.jpg (https://ibb.co/JFQcBfL)
Interestingly they are not as sensitive as the JBLs despite being about 6 times larger. I've really got to crank the amplifier up.
The JBL are 87dB, B&O quote the sensitivity as '2.5 W' which makes no sense to me.
2.5v at 1 metre i guess. So a bit less than 1 watt used. USUALLY GIVE A BIT MORE INFO
At a guess I reckon they are down at around 82 or 83 dB. Given a good feed the clarity from the mid-range domes is impressive. Makes the JBL sound a bit muddy by comparison.
Bass drivers are Peerless, not Volt as I mistakenly said earlier in the thread.
''These were extremely fine speakers with a superb sound and flat frequency response. They do suffer from foam rot and are hence very cheap these days. A replacement Peerless woofer is available or recone the original. Described to the author by a B&O insider as one of the best passive speakers made by B&O.''
https://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=645
guessing about a 2 db drop
StingRay
31-08-2020, 16:43
Well never say never. I'm sure we are all familiar with E.M Forster's 'The Machine Stops.' :)
I'm not knocking anyone's decision to use a streaming service. It's just not for me.
Buying 2 cds a month would not give me enough choice, I would have to buys 100s of cds but I don’t want to tie £1,000s up in a cd collection, so for me streaming is great and makes perfect sense, before streaming my music interest was low.
Only 5 new albums today, still got 4 hours left though.
Wanted to try both runs of Chord Odyssey 2 to the speakers so I could get rid of the jumpers from the equation. But only have 1 power amp it is easy to bi-wire with - Linn LK100 as it has 4 pairs of banana plug sockets on the back.
So in it goes on top of the stack. It doesn't get on with the DCB1 pre-amp (earth loop) so I'm running it straight from the DAC.
Result? Meh. Whatever the problem is it's not the jumpers.
Bored now, so for thrills I hooked up the Sansui equalizer again and dialled in a +2b shelf from 2khz up. Hmm -loads better, if occasionally a bit shouty.
Dropped the 1Khz by 2db and that did the trick. Best sound I've had in ages. Crisp, fabulous separation. Top end still isn't quite 100% right but is now a lot closer, maybe 95%.
I'm so impressed I've just bought a Klark Teknik DN332 unit https://www.klarkteknik.com/product.html?modelCode=P0BPR to replace the old Sansui. Should arrive this week.
https://i.ibb.co/s6DcVWz/latest.jpg (https://ibb.co/HxMRHh3)
host an image free (https://imgbb.com/)
The DN332 looks similar to the DN360, but more compact. You should find it useful, but don't go overboard with the settings. ;)
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/278AAOSw-MpePZSa/s-l640.jpg
https://mediadl.musictribe.com/media/PLM/data/images/products/P0BPR/2000Wx2000H/DN332_P0BPR_Front_XL.png
The Klark arrived, in minty condition but not used it. Instead just been using the Soncoz DAC as a pre-amp into the Krell KSA100. It's not bad but still not perfect. It's the best combo I have tried, but there's still this slight softness or veil on the top end.
The Krell is certainly the best of the working amps I have, it just has that purity of tone thing sorted whilst the others just strive toward it to varying degrees.
I've been thinking about punting on an Audiolab 6000CDT transport but I m unsure there is any gain to be had there and it's the thick end of £400. I know I can send it back but that's a pain to have to do,
I hope you can find some sort of stability with your system soon, mate, as you seem to be all over the place with it at the moment - with graphic equalisers and alll sorts!:eek:
Marco.
I hope you can find some sort of stability with your system soon, mate, as you seem to be all over the place with it at the moment - with graphic equalisers and alll sorts!:eek:
Marco.
Nothing wrong with a bit of experimentation as the Bishop said to the actress. :D
Just listening to Aretha Franklin right now and it does actually sound quite excellent. So I don't know.
Lol - as long as yer 'avin fun! Your graphic EQ looks well cool, but I couldn't see myself ever using one in my main system.
Marco.
No, don't know what I'm going yo do with it. Just always wanted one and you can pick them up cheap now EQ has all gone digital.
Being a professional unit, it'll be very well-designed, unlike most of the breed, so you might find, sonically, it'll do some things you like:)
Marco.
They are the Cadillac of analogue equalisers.
When I get all the Black Tulip kit rack mounted it can go in there.
I bought mine out of curiosity to see what small changes in frequency response sounded like. Only played with it for a day, but did learn that the lift/cut must be no more than 2dB, otherwise it sounds 'artificial', and the band of frequencies being either augmented or reduced in amplitude should be broad (about an octave).
They are not a panacea, but more of a tool to find out what needs to be done to improve the system response; usually caused by room reflections.
My first ever amp was a Fisher with a 5 band equaliser built in.
Better than having just bass and treble. Used to bypass it mostly though.
Oppo - Soncoz - Krell - JM Labs:
https://i.ibb.co/rvjwFWh/20201108-123457.jpg (https://ibb.co/Wsh2GTX)
gif hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
Still a little bit of splash on cymbals but otherwise this is spot-on. Need to do a complete re-build and re-dress the cables, otherwise will do for now.
RobbieGong
08-11-2020, 14:44
My first ever amp was a Fisher with a 5 band equaliser built in.
Better than having just bass and treble. Used to bypass it mostly though.
Have to agree Barry.
A lot of people use/used equalisers finding them great fun in terms of sound changing and frequency extremes.
Whilst some audiophiles wouldn't / wont go near them due to the whole 'imparts distortion into the chain/ sound' thing, some came to realise that used properly, with the room you could realise great benefit in respect of room interaction, adjustment - correction.
camtwister
08-11-2020, 19:03
Being old skool, I still like an analogue third octave equalizer when listening in a larger room.
https://i.postimg.cc/VNRkJhJq/Y-old-office.jpg (https://postimg.cc/d7hYX4m3)
Just bought an Audiolab 6000CDT CD transport. Should be here tomorrow. Not entirely convinced it will make any improvement but only one way to find out. Got it off Amazon so it can go back if it proves to be a waste of time.
That should be interesting. Thinking of one of them also.
walpurgis
16-11-2020, 11:14
Just bought an Audiolab 6000CDT CD transport
Could be OK. Never tried one of their CD units but it should be well enough made.
Just bought an Audiolab 6000CDT CD transport. Should be here tomorrow. Not entirely convinced it will make any improvement but only one way to find out. Got it off Amazon so it can go back if it proves to be a waste of time.
Inspired by Gaz's experiences with it, I presume?;)
I'd be surprised if it didn't make a difference, but make sure you use a good digital cable between it and the partnering DAC. Does the player have both a coaxial and optical output?
If you read Gaz's recent thoughts on the coaxial vs. optical thing, you'll see that he favours optical, and I have to say my recent experiences confirm the same. So... Do you have a decent optical or coaxial cable to use, and if so, what is it?
If you're open to reccos on either, on quality cheap-as-chips ones, I can give you some, especially what I used recently between my Panny Bluray player and Beresford DAC:)
Marco.
I use optical right now, no idea what the make of the cable is. Nothing fancy. I think it was a tenner,
The Audiolab gets glowing reviews everywhere, not just from Gaz! Got it off of Amazon so can go back if it is no different to the Oppo and the Panasonic (which as transports sound identical).
Lol yes, I know, but it's what's written here that counts most from trusted ears!;)
Anyway, hope you enjoy it:)
Marco.
Just bought an Audiolab 6000CDT CD transport. Should be here tomorrow. Not entirely convinced it will make any improvement but only one way to find out. Got it off Amazon so it can go back if it proves to be a waste of time.
Mine bettered my modded Oppo for Redbook Martin, linear psu i2S connection to the Dac and all.
Takes a couple of weeks 24/7 to fully blossom, its a detail/ambience/soundstage monster.
Just makes you forget the hifi and slip into the music.
Discovered much more in the mix of Bat Out of Hell CD, its wide open.
It used the same slot load mechanism Audiolab's £1K CD player from higher up in the range.
The Coax output has some attention payed to it, and I found it bettered the optical out.
Using a Wireworld Starlight 8 digital with mine, curious about getting something better to eek more out of the Transport.
Responds well to good power and digital cables, things built like a tank and granite slabs on it, isolating feet etc didn't make much difference.
Its a terrific piece of kit.
The Coax output has some attention payed to it, and I found it bettered the optical out.
I thought you said that you preferred optical leads, daftee, in a recent PM where we were discussing them?:scratch:
Remember, it was when you'd just ordered the Monoprice optical lead... Did that arrive, btw, and if so, what like was it?:)
Marco.
Sounds promising!
I have a decent coax cable so I can try both alternatives.
i used to prefer optical myself .. tbh there is very little in it all told, if your using decent cable. doesnt have to be silly money tho. glass optical is best....but obviosly if the optical mamma and pappa aint at their best then it dont matter how good the cable is. if its a really good machine like this i doubt you will get much difference
That was before the Transport (and cable) had some hours on it...
Cos of how it works my Dac's pretty bulletproof from Jitter, its more electrical interference than can cause issues?
Optical has zero effects here, so at first was the better sounding.
Burn on on the player and cable, the coax cable seems pretty well sorted RMF/EMI wise.
All subjective anyway, and can be kit dependant so no real absolutes here I'd wager.
I thought you said that you preferred optical leads, daftee, in a recent PM where we were discussing them?:scratch:
Remember, it was when you'd just ordered the Monoprice optical lead... Did that arrive, btw, and if so, what like was it?:)
Marco.
Ah okies. no worries:)
Marco.
Sounds promising!
I have a decent coax cable so I can try both alternatives.
:thumbsup:
Photo a bit blurry but the Audiolab transport arrived. Amazon couldn't find a bigger box I guess.
https://i.ibb.co/m4KKSsF/20201117-132429.jpg (https://ibb.co/HqyyXvp)
Not got much time on it yet but is noticeably better than the Oppo it replaces. Bit crisper, a bit more defined.
more than a bit :lol:
they get a good name those
Just need to get the other Krell back off Alan now and I reckon I'll have about topped out.
Still got the Tannnoys to come though, this side of Xmas hopefully.
Just need to get the other Krell back off Alan now and I reckon I'll have about topped out.
Still got the Tannnoys to come though, this side of Xmas hopefully.
I seem to remember you being told that last year!;)
Anyway, glad that the Audiolab's hitting the spot - I knew it would:)
Marco.
Might have some Yamaha NS1000M coming too. Although that's far from definite.
Ali Tait
17-11-2020, 18:49
It's a 50S you have isn't it? What's the other one?
Ali Tait
17-11-2020, 19:01
Be getting a MK1 after the lockdown. It looks in good nick but is totally original so will need a recap at least.
How does the 100 compare to the 50?
Be getting a MK1 after the lockdown. It looks in good nick but is totally original so will need a recap at least.
How does the 100 compare to the 50?
Yes saw that. total steal at the price. I got a lot of power amps here but always come back to the 100 Mk2 - I can't really define exactly why. Music is just more pleasurable through it, It's a lot like a Radford STA15 but with endless grip and power. I don't think there is much difference between the 100 and the 100 MK 2 except for the direction the fans blow.
I prefer the 50S though - or did before it started having issues. It has the same 'rightness' but is a little more transparent.
Ali Tait
17-11-2020, 19:14
How much has been done to them?
The 50S was original when I got it. Alan has repaired it now but it is still down at his place,
The 100 has had the smoothing caps replaced with some fancy Audionote things before I got it but that's all.
Ali Tait
17-11-2020, 19:38
Ok cheers. Been doing a bit of reading, seems they mostly just need a recap.
Alan, if you read this, did you back the bias off a little in deference to the age of the thing?
Firebottle
18-11-2020, 07:23
Ali, no I didn't. It does run rather hot in places but there are no adjustments at all and I haven't been able to get a circuit for the S version.
Ali, no I didn't. It does run rather hot in places but there are no adjustments at all and I haven't been able to get a circuit for the S version.
I do have the schematic for the 50S
Ali - if you need one for the 100 just e-mail Krell. That's what I did and they sent it me over, took them about 30 minutes to reply.
Ali Tait
18-11-2020, 08:27
Thanks gents. Got a diagram from the net but you never know how accurate they are. Will try mailing Krell.
Audiolab 6000CDT:
https://i.ibb.co/XFLm7Bp/audio.jpg (https://ibb.co/bNmpshL)
Been listening to this all day. It really is very good. Just transport to DAC to power amp, very simple system. Still got a bit of splash on cymbals but I'll figure that out. Otherwise sounds very good.
Looks good Martin.
Have you seen the retro Leak version?
I’m guessing it’s the same thing in pyjamas and dressing gown.
Looks good Martin.
Have you seen the retro Leak version?
I’m guessing it’s the same thing in pyjamas and dressing gown.
https://www.leak-hifi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/LEAK-CDT-Standard-Walnut-1_with-USB-cover-input.png
https://www.leak-hifi.co.uk/cdt/
Leak describe the styling as influenced by Art Deco. Maybe for the early styling, but not the later looks, including their latest offerings. That said, I do like the late '60s styling and have a Leak Troughline tuner in a wooden sleeve myself.
I like it but would look out of place in my system.
Is that Audiolab player the same as the one Garry (Gazjam) raved about?
What do you use for a DAC?
(Sorry if I have not been paying attention - you have probably said what it was.)
What do you use for a DAC?
(Sorry if I have not been paying attention - you have probably said what it was.)
Soncoz SGD1 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/soncoz-sgd1-audio-dac-review.10295/
Soncoz SGD1 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/soncoz-sgd1-audio-dac-review.10295/
What chips does it use, mate? Just curious... Anyway, who'd have thunk it; the Marty-boy using a dedicated CD transport and DAC, instead of a 'perfectly adequate' integrated CDP?:D;)
Marco.
The Audiolab is very, very good Guys.
A precision tool for the job, steps up even with a far more expensive Dac.
Anyone looking for a CD transport should seriously look at one of these, even if your budget is many times higher than the £379 it costs.
Like Martins comparison, it bettered my Oppo as well, and that’s been taken very far from stock.
Solid build, some heft to it too.
not much going on inside which is interesting?
https://i.imgur.com/GTgYqxY_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand
What chips does it use, mate? Just curious... Anyway, who'd have thunk it; the Marty-boy using a dedicated CD transport and DAC, instead of a 'perfectly adequate' integrated CDP?:D;)
Marco.
uses Sabre ESS9038Q2M, one per channel.
All my perfectly adequate CD players are broken, that's what has forced me down this route. But it is giving very good results.
Lol... Yeah, I know. However, a) I know it would, and b) that combination is now likely to seriously compete with your 'adequate' standalone players when they're fixed!;)
:trust:
In the meantime, enjoy!
Marco.
The Audiolab is very, very good Guys.
A precision tool for the job, steps up even with a far more expensive Dac.
Anyone looking for a CD transport should seriously look at one of these, even if your budget is many times higher than the £379 it costs.
Like Martins comparison, it bettered my Oppo as well, and that’s been taken very far from stock.
Solid build,
not much going on inside which is interesting?
https://i.imgur.com/GTgYqxY_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand
Indeed... Looks like a whole load of potential modding fun there, though!:eek:;)
Marco.
Oh, and Martin, when you get the chance I'd be curious if you can hear any difference between the optical and coaxial outputs on the Audiolab (using their respective 'leads'), so please report back on that when you've assessed it:)
Marco.
The Audiolab is very, very good Guys.
It is - Comparing back to back with the Oppo the Audiolab is obviously crisper sounding and more defined.
Oh, and Martin, when you get the chance I'd be curious if you can hear any difference between the optical and coaxial outputs on the Audiolab (using their respective 'leads'), so please report back on that when you've assessed it:)
Marco.
lol I swapped to the coax earlier just to see. Using it right now. I don't think it is any different. If it is, it's very subtle.
Fairy muff... I wasn't expecting much, but you may find differences become more apparent if you were to experiment with some different digital leads. That's what I've found.
If you're curious, you could always ask some folks to lend you some to try:)
What lengths are you using?
Marco.
No worries. Curiously, and I don't know why, I've found that longer lengths of digital cables sound best (the opposite of normal thinking), so after years of using 0.5m, like you, I placed my transport and DAC further apart and now use a 1.5m version of the same coaxial cable, and was rather surprised it sounded better.
I think I've seen a technical explanation for it somewhere, which sort of made sense, but if you're curious you could always Google for it:)
Incidentally, if it's coaxial you think you'll be using, I would thoroughly recommend this 'no nonsense' stuff from Mark Grant, fitted with Canare plugs: https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk/digital-cables/mark-grant-hdx1-pure-copper-digital-coax-cable/
...but if you can trust my findings, try it in a 1.5m length. I'm confident it'll be worthwhile sonic upgrade on what you're currently using:cool:
Marco.
No worries. Curiously, and I don't know why, I've found that longer lengths of digital cables sound best (the opposite of normal thinking), so after years of using 0.5m, like you, I placed my transport and DAC further apart and now use a 1.5m version of the same coaxial cable, and was rather surprised it sounded better.
I think I've seen a technical explanation for it somewhere, which sort of made sense, but if you're curious you could always Google for it:)
Incidentally, if it's coaxial you think you'll be using, I would thoroughly recommend this 'no nonsense' stuff from Mark Grant, fitted with Canare plugs: https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk/digital-cables/mark-grant-hdx1-pure-copper-digital-coax-cable/
...but if you can trust my findings, try it in a 1.5m length. I'm confident it'll be worthwhile upgrade on what you're currently using:cool:
Marco.
It's because you can get return reflections in a shorter cable that can create jitter. But it won't make a difference with the DAC I'm using.
Indeed... Looks like a whole load of potential modding fun there, though!:eek:;)
Marco.
You betcha. ;)
It's because you can get return reflections in a shorter cable that can create jitter. But it won't make a difference with the DAC I'm using.
Ah I see... Yet I could hear it with the Sony. The improvement was subtle, but defo there and worth having. Do you think that's because it's a much older DAC?:)
Marco.
You betcha. ;)
Lol... The PSU looks 'adequate' but there's certainly plenty of space to put something, erm, a bit more 'manly' in there:eyebrows:
Not to mention cap upgrades....:D Thing is, the case it's in probably represents around 70% of the cost!
Marco.
Ah I see... Yet I could hear it with the Sony. The improvement was subtle, but defo there and worth having. Do you think that's because it's a much older DAC?:)
Marco.
Yes it depends on the DAC - although some say that if the cable is the correct impedance then it won't matter anyway.
I might consider getting a proper glass optical cable and see what that does. Probably nothing but I'm still looking for that last little bit to put this system over the top. Still just too soft in the very top end.
Martin,
Glass Optical cable, best I’ve heard when playing with these was this one.
http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html
not beer budget though, but it’s worth investing in a good digital cable imo, especially for this Transport.
Found coax to slightly superior, using a 100 quid Wireworld Starlight 8, which is much better sounding than a well thought of Belden/ Bluejeans cable.
The Audiolabs so good, I’m pretty sure it’s worth investing in a better cable.
Had a Black Cat Silverstar before the last time I ran a transport, and was as good as it gets without being silly.
Improved MkII version out, so may pull trigger on that and call it done.
The manufacturer has some credentials, knows what he’s about.
Theres attention been paid to the quality of the coax output in the Audiolab, in that it’s effectively running “balanced”, reducing inherent noise affecting the quality of the bitstream to the Dac.
Clever stuff actually, attention paid to where it matters most, with no frills.
Can get behind that in a design.
Another thing worth considering Martin,
The Audiolab took a few weeks of constant use before it fully got in its stride,
I’d just let it do its thing for a while before making final judgement.
Thinking about the cymbal splashiness, that’ll probably pass with some time on the player.
Yes it depends on the DAC - although some say that if the cable is the correct impedance then it won't matter anyway.
I might consider getting a proper glass optical cable and see what that does. Probably nothing but I'm still looking for that last little bit to put this system over the top. Still just too soft in the very top end.
Yeah, sure. If you're considering an optical cable then I'd thoroughly recommend this Van Damme. I use it between the Panny and Beresford, and it really does sound good: https://sxpro.co.uk/van-damme-optical-cable-1m-blue
Very well made too, and not a lot of dosh. IME, it's hard to beat professional studio cables, from these types of companies, as they're used to supplying rather demanding customers and the prices charged are blissfully free of bullshit 'audiophile markup':)
I think they're made to order, and I got mine in around two days from ordering, so fast service, too!
Marco.
Another thing worth considering Martin,
The Audiolab took a few weeks of constant use before it fully got in its stride,
I’d just let it do its thing for a while before making final judgement.
Thinking about the cymbal splashiness, that’ll probably pass with some time on the player.
I'm pretty sure that the 'cymbal splashiness' was there before the Audiolab arrived.
Marco.
Yes it's really weird. It's not so much splashiness as softness. Like the top end is rolled off too soon except that if I EQ the top end I still hear the same effect so it isn't a simple drop in FR.
I've tried various combinations of equipment (amps, speakers, transports) and cables and no matter what I change it's there. The Audiolab improved it slightly. I mean it is very subtle but it's noticeable. Except for that it sounds amazing. I just can't figure out the cause.
Do you think it's a trait of the tweeters on the JM Labs with some material? It appears to be ever-present, regardless of whatever else you've done, so makes sense.
Marco.
Could be, but both the same? Same with if it is a crossover problem,
I need to get the other Krell back and see if it is the same with that,
Could be, but both the same? Same with if it is a crossover problem,
Sorry, don't understand that bit, mate...
Marco.
Sorry, don't understand that bit, mate...
Marco.
I mean what is the chances of both speakers going bad? Pretty unlikely.
Ah right, no what I meant was *intrinsically* in the voicing of the speakers, not something that's recently gone wrong, and which has been exacerbated by a change of equipment (post Krell failure, maybe?)
Was the issue there before when the Krell was in the system, or at any other time? Can you remember exactly when it happened?:)
Marco.
Firebottle
23-11-2020, 10:06
No worries. Curiously, and I don't know why, I've found that longer lengths of digital cables sound best (the opposite of normal thinking), so after years of using 0.5m, like you, I placed my transport and DAC further apart and now use a 1.5m version of the same coaxial cable, and was rather surprised it sounded better.
I think I've seen a technical explanation for it somewhere, which sort of made sense, but if you're curious you could always Google for it:)
...but if you can trust my findings, try it in a 1.5m length. I'm confident it'll be worthwhile sonic upgrade on what you're currently using:cool:
Marco.
Without trying to teach granny to suck eggs, the impedance matching is much more critical with high frequency digital signals.
Weirdly I found that the coax input of the Topping D50 wasn't matched at all, a schoolboy error in my book, it was high impedance.
Once I had fitted a 75 ohm terminating resistor it was much more rock solid.
Yes, Alan, I completely agree. That's one of the reasons I use Mark's cables, as they're genuine 75 Ohms, with the supplied Canare plugs.
Marco.
Ah right, no what I meant was *intrinsically* in the voicing of the speakers, not something that's recently gone wrong, and which has been exacerbated by a change of equipment (post Krell failure, maybe?)
Was the issue there before when the Krell was in the system, or at any other time? Can you remember exactly when it happened?:)
Marco.
When I had the Krell 50S in the sound was perfection. Since that went faulty I've tried all my other amplifiers including the other Krell and can't get that sound back 100%, it is very close except for the extreme top end not sounding quite right. Using the DAC as a pre-amo helped, the Audiolab transport helped, but it still isn't quite there.
When Alan was round we tried his Neurochrome power amp and his pre-amp and the problem was still there, Which suggests it isn't the amplification. Except that with the Krell 50S in (it will work for a bit before it plays up) the issue pretty much vanished, Alan can testify to all this.
Okies... For me then, that points to the speakers (how the upper-frequency response has been set via the crossover) and/or the characteristics of the tweeters, causing the issue in question, either or both of which the Krell successfully ameliorates.
If you've tried everything else, and the problem still persists, except when the Krell is used, then logic dictates that's likely what it is:)
Marco.
The speakers are getting on for 25 years old so probably not 100%. Even so it seems odd that only one power amp out of half a dozen sounds right with them.
I could put this down to the other amps being old or not that good to begin with, but neither of those applies to Alan's Neurochrome amplifier.
It's really a mystery, if the solution was obvious I would already have solved it!
Really need these Tannoys to arrive, then at least I can rule out the speakers from the equation.
walpurgis
23-11-2020, 12:49
The speakers are getting on for 25 years old so probably not 100%. Even so it seems odd that only one power amp out of half a dozen sounds right with them.
Borrow a fifty quid ProArt from Alan. That'll make you do a double take!
It's really a mystery, if the solution was obvious I would already have solved it!
Really need these Tannoys to arrive, then at least I can rule out the speakers from the equation.
Indeed, especially the latter. Any more news on that - has Shaun been in contact again?:)
Marco.
No worries. Curiously, and I don't know why, I've found that longer lengths of digital cables sound best (the opposite of normal thinking), so after years of using 0.5m, like you, I placed my transport and DAC further apart and now use a 1.5m version of the same coaxial cable, and was rather surprised it sounded better.
I think I've seen a technical explanation for it somewhere, which sort of made sense, but if you're curious you could always Google for it:)
Incidentally, if it's coaxial you think you'll be using, I would thoroughly recommend this 'no nonsense' stuff from Mark Grant, fitted with Canare plugs: https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk/digital-cables/mark-grant-hdx1-pure-copper-digital-coax-cable/
...but if you can trust my findings, try it in a 1.5m length. I'm confident it'll be worthwhile sonic upgrade on what you're currently using:cool:
Marco.
So you are no longer using the Trompeter cable I made up for you?
The length effect manifests itself if either the output of the CDT and/or the input of the DAC are not matched to 75 Ohm. If there is a serious mismatch, then you need a long cable to increase the triple transit time and thus delay confusion this causes when the digital signal changes from 0 to 1 and vice versa.
RCA phono connectors themselves can never be 75 Ohm impedance, despite what any manufacturer will claim. However the impedance mismatch occurs over a very short length (effectively the length of the mated connector) that it effectively self cancels. That is why SPDIF can 'get away' with using RCA phonos - to do the job properly, Sony and Philips should have specified the use of 75 Ohm BNC connectors. (This is completely different effect to the one of using long cables to increase the triple transit time.)
So you are no longer using the Trompeter cable I made up for you?
Not right at this minute, Barry. I wanted to try a full 'loom' of the same (Mark Grant) cables, from source to speakers, which is what's now in place, but I intend on revisiting the Trompeter cable again, now that my ears have been 'attuned' to the sound of the Mark Grants, and see if there is any difference:)
The length effect manifests itself if either the output of the CDT and/or the input of the DAC are not matched to 75 Ohm. If there is a serious mismatch, then you need a long cable to increase the triple transit time and thus delay confusion this causes when the digital signal changes from 0 to 1 and vice versa.
RCA phono connectors themselves can never be 75 Ohm impedance, despite what any manufacturer will claim. However the impedance mismatch occurs over a very short length (effectively the length of the mated connector) that it effectively self cancels. That is why SPDIF can 'get away' with using RCA phonos - to do the job properly, Sony and Philips should have specified the use of 75 Ohm BNC connectors. (This is completely different effect to the one of using long cables to increase the triple transit time.)
Yup, thanks for that, and noted. It's also the reason why I intend on fitting the digital output of my CD transport, and input of my DAC, with a BNC connector, then also changing the connectors on the coaxial cable, to BNCs. That's a project for later though, as it's not easy accessing the former.
Marco.
Indeed, especially the latter. Any more news on that - has Shaun been in contact again?:)
Marco.
No. If I e-mail him he always replies but I don't get regular updates or anything.
Ok, so have you emailed him since we last spoke about the intended supplying of them before Christmas? What stage is the build at - has he shown you any pics?:)
Marco.
Ok, so have you emailed him since we last spoke about the intended supplying of them before Christmas? What stage is the build at - has he shown you any pics?:)
Marco.
I last e-mailed October 10th asking if before Xmas was a possibility, he replied to say they should be finished by end of November.
In July it was just the internal baffles that needed to be done, not had any pics.
Of course this was before second lockdown happened so probably all bets are off.
The Blackcat digital cables i mentioned earlier are BNC connector cables, sold with the makers own recipe rca adapters...he totally gets the 75 ohm standard, in fact brought his own to market in 1992.
One of those ‘fit n forget’ purchases, unless you don’t have any use for a digital interconnect anymore!
(hence me selling mine)
Given now good the Audiolab is, be daft not to buy one again.
Martin, if you want dibbs on my Wireworld spendy one to try, if it’s not better just post it back to me mate.
PM you for friend prices.
I last e-mailed October 10th asking if before Xmas was a possibility, he replied to say they should be finished by end of November.
In July it was just the internal baffles that needed to be done, not had any pics.
Of course this was before second lockdown happened so probably all bets are off.
Yeah, sure I get that. Would you like me to have a word? He's a friend so could probably get things moving a little quicker for you:)
Marco.
The Blackcat digital cables i mentioned earlier are BNC connector cables, sold with the makers own recipe rca adapters...he totally gets the 75 ohm standard, in fact brought his own to market in 1992.
One of those ‘fit n forget’ purchases, unless you don’t have any use for a digital interconnect anymore!
(hence me selling mine)
Given now good the Audiolab is, be daft not to buy one again.
Martin, if you want dibbs on my Wireworld spendy one to try, if it’s not better just post it back to me mate.
PM you for friend prices.
Will send you PM Gaz.
Yeah, sure I get that. Would you like me to have a word? He's a friend so could probably get things moving a little quicker for you:)
Marco.
Let's give him a bit more time. It's not that close to Christmas yet. Be good to have them then as got 9 days off and not going anywhere this year.
Ok, no worries. Let me know if you'd like me to give him a nudge.
Marco.
It's new speaker day!
https://i.ibb.co/bX4F78K/20201128-125410.jpg (https://ibb.co/VTFx3Pq)
those your tannoys martin?
No, the Tannoys will be a lot bigger! These are Audiovector something-or-other.
oh ok.. just thought youd gone with a tall set up instead of the usual wide baffle
walpurgis
28-11-2020, 13:32
Well rig 'em up then! :)
https://i.ibb.co/10vQZP9/20201128-132921.jpg (https://ibb.co/Rgvb2sC)
Interesting... What made you go for those? And how do they sound?:)
Marco.
Interesting... What made you go for those? And how do they sound?:)
Marco.
They were at a price that was impossible to resist. Plus Audiovector are the 'crispest' sounding speakers I ever heard so thought they might solve my 'lack of crispness' problem'.
In showroom condition with all original packaging and shipping crates. Just having a listen now, will give you a preliminary verdict in a bit :)
https://i.ibb.co/10vQZP9/20201128-132921.jpg (https://ibb.co/Rgvb2sC)
Which ones are they Martin? The white ones or the ones with black baffles?
White ones are the new ones.
walpurgis
28-11-2020, 14:26
Well it's a make I know nothing about and your listening impressions should be interesting. What's the spec?
Well it's a make I know nothing about and your listening impressions should be interesting. What's the spec?
33 Hz - 22Khz +/- 3dB, 2 and a half way , crossover is at 3Khz. sensitivity 90dB, power handling 180W, weight 18 kilos.
I few thoughts then, so far. I heard some Audiovectors a few years back and was pretty impressed by them, they do that hi-fi 'crispness' thing that I really like. These came up at a reasonable price and the owner said he would deliver them personally if I paid the fuel cost, so here we are.
These are a different model, later and lower down the range, I think they were a grand brand new so not an expensive speaker, but I thought that given how much leading edge they put on everything they would be a good test to see if the 'softness' problem I have is down to my existing speakers or not.
Well, they have improved it a little, but not cured it completely. Back to the drawing board. At least I can rule out the speakers as the problem.
Otherwise I have to say these are pretty good speakers given they were only a grand brand new. I'm not usually keen on 2 way cone/dome speakers as you just don't get that mid-range clarity that you do with a good three way but these seem to be an exception to that rule. Plus the bass on them really is excellent with superb timing.
You can 'hear the box' occasionally That's about the only criticism I can make up to now. And I know what you're thinking and you're right - you're not going to get heroically constructed cabs at this price level so it's fair enough.
.
Some pics of today's experimental system:
Audiovector Speakers. The question is how much more white could they be? And the answer is none. None more white.
https://i.ibb.co/4Mkvwsf/today-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/jGt09V5)
Stack from top to bottom:
Audiolab CDT6000 CD Transport
Oppo BDT 101C - soon to get moved to the A/V system as my freebie Panasonic DVD player is dying.
Sansui SE7 Graphic Equaliser. Not hooked up anymore but I've left it there as it looks good.
Soncoz SGD1 DAC - also acting as the preamplifier
https://i.ibb.co/Y0CRN9b/today2.jpg (https://ibb.co/tLGmHf3)
Thought I would try a different amp with the new Audiovectors so put in this Linn LK100. Doesn't help with heating the room like the big Krell below it does.
The Linn sold for £675 in 1997, that's £1237 today. I bought it second-hand back around about 2001.
https://i.ibb.co/WBvLqRD/today3.jpg (https://ibb.co/bN5kqGH)
walpurgis
12-12-2020, 13:43
How's it sounding?
Enjoyable, if not the last word.
The Audiovectors are good speakers but not as good as the JM Labs. Not as open sounding. I do like their really crisp sound though. Don't know if you recall the B&W Solid speakers but they remind me a lot of a larger version of them.
Why not try them both together? Not such a daft idea as I have done it to good effect.
Both sets of speakers together?
Decided to put the JM Labs back in after a few weeks living with the Audiovectors. Took the opportunity to re=position a bit from how I had them before, wider apart and with the speaker on the right further from the wall. Kept the Linn LK100 in as the power amp and the DAC feeds it directly. On the whole this is a great combination, still maybe a little soft on transient attack although it's no longer too soft, although not sure what has improved that as I'm sure I tried this combo before and was disappointed. But nothing else can be faulted.
https://i.ibb.co/bmbjF05/20201231-122422.jpg (https://ibb.co/sRWpCf9)
Pretty sure that when I get the Krell KSA50S back in I'll be back to killer levels of sound quality. The whole front end has had a massive upgrade (on paper at least) since it was last in so hoping for great things.
walpurgis
31-12-2020, 12:55
Dunno if you've ever considered it Martin, but if you should ever suspect the other speakers in your room might be resonating in sympathy and colouring things, connect their pos and negs together with short bits of wire. That'll stop it.
Good tip for anybody with extra speakers in the room.
There's another 5 pairs of speakers in the room plus a subwoofer and a guitar amp....
I really don't think it makes any difference at all, at least not one you can actually hear.
I read that Linn invented the idea so they could get competitor speakers out of the dem room, make it harder for the punter to point at them and say 'How about a listen to those?'
It got to the point where some people were suggesting that even the presence of the tiny speaker used on a digital watch alarm would colour the sound. Ivor T took a blind test where he had to identify when a single Linn Kan was present in the room in addition to the pair playing the music. He failed to discriminate.
walpurgis
31-12-2020, 14:17
Put a meter across speaker terminals and see what happens when other speakers are running. There'll be a measurable current due to the resonance. It can be negated to a lesser extent by putting unused speakers face to face, then any resonances tend to cancel.
Any sign yet of the Tannoys?;)
Marco.
Put a meter across speaker terminals and see what happens when other speakers are running. There'll be a measurable current due to the resonance. It can be negated to a lesser extent by putting unused speakers face to face, then any resonances tend to cancel.
Yep I have the IMF TSL50 face to face for that reason but I still think the volumes of air being moved are so small as to be swamped by that from the driven speakers and general room effects. Maybe in an acoustically perfect room it might matter a little.
Any sign yet of the Tannoys?;)
Marco.
No not heard anything. Although now I've got this system back on song I'm less bothered.
I'll contact him again in the New Year, see what's up. Looks like I'm going to be waiting a while for the Yamaha NS1000Ms too. But what can you do?
Lol - I'll give him a nudge next week, if you like. I need to ask him about something else anyway:)
Marco.
Sure, go ahead if you see him.
walpurgis
31-12-2020, 15:50
Yep I have the IMF TSL50
I didn't know you still had them, always liked those.
Needing a re-cap, got all the new caps just not got around to it. The bass on them is something else, it has the same weight and scale as you get with big Tannoys or JBLs.
I think they'll be excellent when fully renovated.
Sure, go ahead if you see him.
Will do, mate:)
Marco.
Noticed on the ASR forum the other day that there was a test of the NAD 320BEE 'budget level' integrated amp that came out back in 2003. It got a bit of a 'meh' result, but when the power amp section was tested alone it measured much better, on a par with the Accuphase E270 which costs about a million pounds and is close to the top tier of the amps tested so far.
I took a look on eBay and there were several C320BEEs up for sale on BIN and one on auction, which was fortuitously ending in a couple of hours. Completed listings indicated they tend to go around the £140 mark. I was interested in seeing if it really could compete with something up at the Accuphase level of price and reputation, so thought I'd have a pop at it just out of curiosity.
Yes, I do this stuff so you don't have to :)
I won the auction with a bid of £103, plus a tenner for delivery.
It turned up last Tuesday so I took out the pre/power links and hooked it up as a power amp only, fed straight from the DAC. NAD did these in black and silver, this one is silver, I suspect the black ones will go for a bit more money as I think 'budget silver' from the early 2000s era looks really cheap and tatty.
The case and buttons are adequate, the volume knob is a nasty chunk of cheap plastic, but I'm not going to be using that and this is about performance not looks. Would you believe an amplifier that came out in 2003 would have binding posts that don't accept banana plugs? No, me neither but here you go. Luckily I had some adaptors handy.
Here's a pic of it all hooked up:
https://i.ibb.co/CvF3hWT/nad.jpg (https://ibb.co/DknH5LS)
It's no Accuphase in the looks department, let's face it. But what about performance?
Well, I have to say this is one of the best power amps I've ever had in my system. Not the best, but for £114 delivered it's beyond a joke. Superb clarity and tone, sweet-sounding - gets the harmonics right in the way so few solid state amps manage at any price.
Can't fault it in the bass either, maybe a little soft compared to a Krell but not enough in it that you'd really think you were missing out. It has the detail but it's also relaxed and easy to listen to.
Is it as good as an Accuphase? Well can't really say, only ever heard one Accuphase amp and that was very good with similar qualities to those I describe above, but I don't have one here to do a back-to-back with so that'll have to remain moot. But if you are looking for a decent second-hand power amp on a tight budget, this is it.
Result! :thumbsup:
Not too much of a punt to have taken either, glad it worked out Martin.
walpurgis
20-02-2021, 13:38
Yes NAD stuff can be remarkably capable. I recently picked up a 2150 power amp to go with my 1020 pre-amp. Not to be sniffed at by any means soundwise.
I wasn't going to go above £140 but thankfully there was only one other bidder.
It's weird but with all the hundreds of bits of kit I've had pass through over the years I've never had anything from NAD. Even though I've on several occasions heard NAD systems elsewhere and been massively impressed. Not by the depth of bass or the levels of absolute clarity or any of the hifi things, but by how much pleasure they were to listen to.
Last time was a fair few years ago now at a friend of a friends house, all NAD system, their absolute bottom-of-the-range from about 15 years ago with the dinky little speakers just plonked on a desk. The bloke was talking to me and I had to ask him to repeat himself as my attention was completely caught by the music and I'm thinking 'This sounds better than my set up FFS!'
Yes NAD stuff can be remarkably capable. I recently picked up a 2150 power amp to go with my 1020 pre-amp. Not to be sniffed at by any means soundwise.
A restored 2200 did pretty good too although not quite as well as the C320BEE's power amp:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/nad-2200-vintage-amplifier-review.13960/
prefer the looks of the 2150 and 2200 though. That's the only problem with this one I have.
walpurgis
20-02-2021, 14:26
Yes, I'd rate something like the 320BEE as likely to be a decent alternative to the evergreen Denon PMA-350SE, which I still think is also a huge bargain.
I've got a 250SE lying about, wonder what that would be like in power amp form? Would need some surgery to separate the pre-amp as there's no links. Don't think there are any on the 350 either?
walpurgis
20-02-2021, 15:38
I've got a 250SE lying about, wonder what that would be like in power amp form? Would need some surgery to separate the pre-amp as there's no links. Don't think there are any on the 350 either?
Pleasant enough, but lacks the heft of the 350SE. I've owned both.
Ah disappointing, with my ear up against the speaker I can hear some hum. Not much, heard worse from some valve amps, but any hum at all is unacceptable to me. Guess it will need looking at. On the plus side sorting that can only improve the sound quality.
Pleasant enough, but lacks the heft of the 350SE. I've owned both.
Yes the 250 is only 20 watts but they are very sweet and open watts - on the original one anyway, the mark 2 onwards are nothing special.
Ah disappointing, with my ear up against the speaker I can hear some hum. Not much, heard worse from some valve amps, but any hum at all is unacceptable to me. Guess it will need looking at. On the plus side sorting that can only improve the sound quality.
check if hum is there using the amps own pre.
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