View Full Version : Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder
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Well that was a good idea Grant.
Using the NAD as an integrated with the DAC on full output - no hum at all, absolutely dead silent - what's that all about? Actually sounds even better now, although I can barely get the volume pot off zero.
I wonder if this amp could be uprated with some 'judicious mods?' The basic circuit seems good, it's certainly clean and sweet and very pleasant to listen too. The beauty of the sound comes through, but 'rez' is not quite up there with the top tier.
Better caps, better potentiometer, better speaker cable binding posts etc?
Well that was a good idea Grant.
Using the NAD as an integrated with the DAC on full output - no hum at all, absolutely dead silent - what's that all about? Actually sounds even better now, although I can barely get the volume pot off zero.
I wonder if this amp could be uprated with some 'judicious mods?' The basic circuit seems good, it's certainly clean and sweet and very pleasant to listen too. The beauty of the sound comes through, but 'rez' is not quite up there with the top tier.
Better caps, better potentiometer, better speaker cable binding posts etc?
sure it could be, yes.. firebottle might be able to help even if he has retired.. as for the hum, it shows it could be cables picking up something, or a slight loop hum.. both worth trying i guess. at least its unlikely to be the amp.. gain too maybe?
Thought it might be cable interference but checked that and my dressing is immaculate, power cables are all well away from the signal cables. Some sort of earth/ground loop, must be. If it was a fault on the amp it would still be there with the pre-amp in circuit. But with that in use there is just absolute silence, not even any hiss.
Really hard to complain, this is the best sound I've had since the KSA50s packed in. It has the all-important sweetness to it, and it's slightly 'gentle'.
The sound reminds me a lot of the old Leak Stereo 30 except with real-world power output. Although it only gives 67 watts before clipping it's more than enough for the JM Labs as they are big and high efficiency.
Was going to do nothing today but got bored with that so had a bit of a tidy up of the system area, everything meticulously cleaned with baby wipes, all on-site rubbish removed. Then set it all back up, cables properly dressed , the lot.
https://i.ibb.co/wdHmWCB/march.jpg (https://ibb.co/TwX38RY)
Audiolab 6000CDT
Topping E30 DAC
NAD C320BEE
ignore the EQ unit, it isn't connected but does raise the CD transport up to a convenient height.
Total cost of this lash-up - £1135 (including the speakers but not the cables which probably add another £300 or so, can't actually recall what I paid for them). The Technics tuner was a freebie.
Remember that Technics tuner from back in the day, Laskys I think...or Stepek.
Loved how it looked, still do!
(and take the cellophane off the Audiolabs display Sir!) :)
Eq looks a decent o n e. If judiciously used can be useful if room isn't perfect
Remember that Technics tuner from back in the day, Laskys I think...or Stepek.
Loved how it looked, still do!
(and take the cellophane off the Audiolabs display Sir!) :)
lol the cellophane is off it, it's just where it is catching the sun from the window opposite.
Think I might have cracked it with this little set-up. It's got that studio 'rawness' without sounding hard or hash. Whatever I did when I tidied everything up seems to have lifted a bit of a veil, although I've no idea what it was. The top end no longer sounds wrong.
Need to go down the shop then I'm going to have another session.
Eq looks a decent o n e. If judiciously used can be useful if room isn't perfect
Sansui. I've got a Klark Teknik too but I'm not using either right now.
March 2021. Can't see me changing any of this anytime soon. It's like 95 percent of perfect. On balance, I settle for that.
Note the room treatment on the wall next to the r/h speaker. Still not got around to ordering the special glue to put it all up. The big thing sticking out next to it is the subwoofer for the TV system. Been meaning to put that in for ages, just not got around to it. Not hooked up yet but will do that tomorrow
https://i.ibb.co/hWv31cF/march-2021.jpg (https://ibb.co/G2jz39Q)
All my music fits in one bookcase. Streaming? Never heard of it.
https://i.ibb.co/s6mWFmG/music.jpg (https://ibb.co/z7n6SnY)
pentagonal trapezohedron dice (https://freeonlinedice.com/)
nowt wrong with streaming.. even with films its handy
You can have too much choice. And I like to have the original mastering if possible. I use Youtube to check out if something is worth getting or not. In the case of music from the last 20 years, usually not.
I check out reccos that you see on the forums, I have a challenge where before I listen I have to guess how many seconds I'll be able to stand it for before I have to kill it.
My favourites are the ones where they start really slow and dirge-like, and goes on for a while like that, so I skip a couple of minutes in to see if it picks up to some sort of tune, but they just never do, just the same thing all the way through.
from a quick count up I reckon I've bought about 150 CDs in the last three years. Still quite a few I need to get. Doobies, Creedence, Earth, Wind And Fire. Proper music! :D
sure for me anyway there is an awful lot of stuff i dont like, but others do(poor sods) but there are good new music around..
not much but some;)
How is the topping vs the Soncoz Macca? Measurements seem to suggest an inaudible difference?
How is the topping vs the Soncoz Macca? Measurements seem to suggest an inaudible difference?
That's a tough one. Nothing but instinct tells me there is some sort of difference. That the Topping seems slightly more 'open'. I don't think I could pick between them blind though so if there really is a difference it's very small.
I try all the 6 filters, they all sound identical to me.
System looking great Martin. Are you still looking for a power amp?
System looking great Martin. Are you still looking for a power amp?
No, not actively. If I can get hold of another Krell KSA50S then I will, otherwise I'm happy enough with this set-up. Next new thing will be the Tannoy Ardens - whenever they finally get finished.
Cheers little bargain that topping is,think I’ll get one.
I really can't fault it. Can see how it might be a bit too explicit in some systems though, or for some tastes. There's no sugar coating, it all sounds very 'studio'.
March 2021. Can't see me changing any of this anytime soon. It's like 95 percent of perfect. On balance, I settle for that.
Note the room treatment on the wall next to the r/h speaker. Still not got around to ordering the special glue to put it all up. The big thing sticking out next to it is the subwoofer for the TV system. Been meaning to put that in for ages, just not got around to it. Not hooked up yet but will do that tomorrow
https://i.ibb.co/hWv31cF/march-2021.jpg (https://ibb.co/G2jz39Q)
Your Electras seem to be pointing straight ahead. How is the soundstage Martin? Can't see your seating position which will be a significant factor.
Hi Edward.
I'm not keen on angling the speakers in a lot. There is only a slight bit of an angle on them. The listening seat is quite a distance from the speakers, 18 foot or so.
The room is a bit to narrow to get a really good width but the depth is pretty good - if it is there on the recording. The speakers do 'disappear' though, that's their big strength.
Ah right, if your room is longish and the speakers are firing down that then minimal toe-in will work. Always nice when the speakers do that disappearing thing.
Get those Tannoys sorted! :)
Yes, room is 29 foot long and not really wide enough (12 foot) to have large, multi-driver speakers set up cross-ways.
Covid put the kybosh on the Tannoy build but hoping to have them at some point this year. Just in time for my retirement :)
29 by 12 foot room! Sounds like a ship's galley.
How do your IMFs sound in that space. You still have them?
§
Yes still got the IMF but never got round to re-building the crossovers although I've got all the components to do it.
Then I had the idea of making them fully active, 8 channels of amplification plus DSP crossovers. It's having the time and the energy though. When I finish work next year I might get back to that.
Those JM Lab Electa 926 speakers have a Focal look about them. Don't think you had them there when I visited a few years back?
Those JM Lab Electa 926 speakers have a Focal look about them. Don't think you had them there when I visited a few years back?
yes they are made by Focal. Focal bought JM Lab and used it as their 'Lexus' brand for a few years, then I think they dropped it entirely and just branded all their speakers as Focal.
I was using the vintage Akai speakers when you visited, that's going back some now.
You did hear the JM Labs at the phono-stage bake-off a couple of years back.
Yes, room is 29 foot long and not really wide enough (12 foot) to have large, multi-driver speakers set up cross-ways.
Covid put the kybosh on the Tannoy build but hoping to have them at some point this year. Just in time for my retirement :)
Your listening room looks to be of similar dimensions to mine (12' wide by 33' long), with your listening position the same distance from the speakers (18'). But I have my speakers (Quad 57s) toed in, so the panels are 'square on' to where I sit. They too "disappear"; in that the sound stage extends beyond the edges of the speakers (and beyond the walls of the room).
One time Adam and I were playing around with an uber high end amp I had on loan, both at my place and his. One thing, among others, we heard was a massive widening of the soundstage well beyond what we normally were hearing. So I think there are various factors that are at play, not only the degree of toe in.
As far as soundstage goes I can never get past hearing the Linkwitz LX521 https://www.linkwitz.com/lx521/
No other speaker I have heard has even come close to that for soundstaging. (it excelled in pretty much everything else too).
I like a good soundstage but it isn't a priority for me. I often don't even listen from the 'sweet spot.' The advantage of having the speakers a long distance away is lack of early reflections, which helps.
If the recording has a good soundstage mixed in, or if it is a simple live recording of, say, acoustic jazz, then I get acceptable results. The instruments have all 3 dimensions replicated.
I'd like the speakers further apart which would also help, but just not physically possible. I think the speakers and room are really the two limiters on what is ultimately possible from digital. The DAC and source are pretty much sideshows by comparison and good/good enough amplifiers are no longer expensive. But really good speakers and really good rooms are.
Opti-cal
19-03-2021, 10:24
As far as soundstage goes I can never get past hearing the Linkwitz LX521 https://www.linkwitz.com/lx521/
No other speaker I have heard has even come close to that for soundstaging. (it excelled in pretty much everything else too).
I like a good soundstage but it isn't a priority for me. I often don't even listen from the 'sweet spot.' The advantage of having the speakers a long distance away is lack of early reflections, which helps.
If the recording has a good soundstage mixed in, or if it is a simple live recording of, say, acoustic jazz, then I get acceptable results. The instruments have all 3 dimensions replicated.
I'd like the speakers further apart which would also help, but just not physically possible. I think the speakers and room are really the two limiters on what is ultimately possible from digital. The DAC and source are pretty much sideshows by comparison and good/good enough amplifiers are no longer expensive. But really good speakers and really good rooms are.
Agree Martin, the rest of the supporting cast (DAC, source, amplifier to an extent) can now be had for relative low cost, case and point your E30 and NAD amplifier. But the speakers and especially the room, play by far the biggest role in things actually sounding good. The difference between my system sounding decent and genuinely spectacular is about 2 inches. To the rear wall and to a lesser extent the side wall, the instrument placement, width/depth of soundstage and actually the whole frequency response (at the listening position) are massively affected by small adjustments.
I've had to change my speakers from a setup in a different room (house) which previously sounded very good because of how the speakers interacted with the shape and size of that room, in my current one they sounded like crap.
It's been a challenge to get the sweet spot at the listening position. Move around the room and there is awful bass 'suck out' in the middle and indeed huge bloat in the corners. Some rooms are just more sympathetically shaped then others.
I've got a fair amount of treatment in the appropriate places as well as a pair of subs accurately crossed and in phase with the room. I do have digital EQ if I want to incorporate it but don't feel its necessary.
Your space looks like a pure candidate for a pair of Quads (close to sidewalls firing down a long corridor type space with plenty of room in front and behind). I do really like your current speakers though.
Hi Chris
yes, having moved many times and learned the hard way how much difference the room makes and what potential pit-falls (bouncy suspended floors) can be encountered I tried to get it as right as possible when I bought a house. I think I did about as well as I could given I had no money at the time.
The room would be ideal for ESLs, open baffles or something similar. Trouble is although I admire greatly what they do right, overall they are not my cup of tea.
Opti-cal
19-03-2021, 12:08
The room would be ideal for ESLs, open baffles or something similar. Trouble is although I admire greatly what they do right, overall they are not my cup of tea.
I totally get that. They're certainly not for everybody I concede. However, I would add if you're willing to put in the time for exact placement of speakers and tactical arrangement of furniture (verging on interfering with daily life around the room) as well as the integration of 'fast' subwoofers, their various shortcomings can be addressed if not nullified.
Your listening outside the sweet-spot habit might be the final nail in the coffin for them though, they just don't sound great at many points of the room. The 63's (and newer models) do a better job of dispersing the sound and have slightly less 'beaming' but some say (myself included) that none have ever replicated the absolute inner transparency of the 57's (original ESL's).
Logan's or Maggie's could also do well in your room (especially with the Krell) but if you're happy no need to fix what ain't broke.
Incidentally I have a pair of 57's (one with low output) and 63's (one not powering on) currently acting as sound absorption in the room, they do a fine job of it actually! So the maintenance and potential for constant repairs (at least in my experience) is another reason to pass on them I would say. Me, I'm in too deep and have heard them at their best so I unfortunately, can't 'unhear' them. I wish I could as it would make my bank account a lot healthier and my girlfriend a lot happier . . . .
QUAD - garnering unhealthy amounts of procrastination from weirdo's for nearly 70 years . . . .
LOL Yes, speakers are the most personal bit.
I have Tannoy Ardens arriving at some point, not planning on getting anymore of the bloody things after that. Already got too many.
Thought I'd have another go at bypassing the pre-amp stage on the NAD 320BEE since its measured performance is quite a bit poorer than the power amp section.
I did try direct to power amp previously with the Soncoz DAC but got some low level hum through the speakers so must be some sort of ground loop.
Deployed this Philips 22AH280 'Black Tulip' pre-amp and works fine, no hum at all. Also seems to be a small step up in sound quality vs the built in pre on the NAD. Not quite as full-on but slightly more 'open' too.
The Philips isn't quite stock as Alan Firebottle did something to it although I can't recall what now. I do like the look of it though, it's what hifi equipment should look like.
https://i.ibb.co/Fhxr6X9/ph.jpg (https://ibb.co/hg76sck)
Didn't you have a buffer, would that act as the pre?
yes, I have a DCB1 but with some power amps it produces a hum in one channel. All my power amps in fact except for the two Krells.
I don't know why it will only work with the Krells, some sort of union rules or something. It doesn't make sense but then nothing about my world ever does.
Had Ollie (aka Big Bottle Audio) come over this morning. He brought me a Krell he had secured for me from somewhere in Welsh Wales. He also brought along his Neurochrome 686 power amp, his BT 2 pre-amp and Soekris DAC so we had a bit of a bake-off.
First up we had a listen to the system already set up to get some sort of baseline. This was Audiolab 6000 CD transport, into Topping E30 DAC into a Philips 22AH380 pre, the power section of a NADC320BEE and the JM Lab Electra 926 speakers. We listened to the first couple of tunes from the Isaac Hayes 'Shaft' soundtrack album, for no other reason than it was already in the player.
This set up gives a clean, sweet sound that you could listen to for hours since it doesn't do anything wrong or annoying, and the sound is free of the speakers, but at the same time whilst it sounds good there's not many 'wow' moments to be had. The NAD power amp has very good signal to noise but its little frame transformer means there is a limit to what it can do in terms of dynamics and the grip in the bass. For a hundred quid off of eBay you really can't go wrong if you need a cheap but good power amp, but it's no powerhouse.
So we decided to swap out the amplification first and put in the BT2 and Neurochrome 686 in place of the Philips/NAD combo. I didn't take a pic of the BT2 as it is just a black box with a stepped pot and a heavy duty on-off switch. The Neurochrome is not blinged up either. It's quite compact and at a guess weighs in about 15 kilos:
https://i.ibb.co/fv2D5XF/neurochrome.jpg (https://ibb.co/3z7RqTd)
We had another listen to Shaft. It was pretty clear there was a lot more power on tap as even at high spl there was no stress on the dynamic peaks and studio ambience around the acoustic instruments was more obvious. The sound was not 'cut' or 'etched' in any way, neither was there any colouration being added, a very neutral presentation, you couldn't really 'hear' the amplifiers at all.
This, then, was an ideal set-up for the DAC bake-off to follow.
Ollie wanted to swap in the Soekris DAC to compare to the Topping E30 but I wanted another reference first so we had a listen to the traditional hi-fi demo track 'Private Investigations' from the Sony SBM CD version. It's become something of a cliché but it is a good test track as you've got big dynamic swings, acoustic instruments and sound effects. This was also well presented, powerful and controlled, but it did show up some very slight glassines on the heavily struck piano chords.
I asked Ollie if he thought that was the DAC or the amp, he says 'It's the DAC mate.'
Okay. So we swap the Topping E30 out for the Soekris DAC. This is not standard as Ollie has taken out the switch mode power supplies and replaced them with linear supplies that sit in a separate case and are connected to the DAC via umbilical. Here's the Soekris ready to go:
https://i.ibb.co/3kDwTk6/soekris.jpg (https://ibb.co/cxGPyxf)
We listen to Private Investigations again. I was especially listening out for the glassiness on the piano hits but it just wasn't there now. Although I thought it was pretty subtle the whole sound was just more natural, more real. We listened to a few of the tracks from Shaft again, again I had the same perception. Ollie reckoned it was a big and obvious difference compared to the Topping but I did not agree. It was subtle, but noticeable.
In addition to the piano chords on 'Private Investigations' there was a xylophone on track 3 of Shaft that also seemed to sound more 'real' with the Soekris. More body to the instrument and more realistic decay of the sound of the keys. Again this was slight but noticeable.
Next we swapped DACs again, replacing the Soekris with the Soncoz SGD1. Unlike the Soekris this DAC comes with two linear power supplies built in and is highly reagrded. Like the Soekris, the Soncoz did not impart that slight glassiness to the piano chords, but at the same time it did not sound as 'real' as the Soekris.
It was a bit like switching from listening to a good turntable to listening to the same song on FM on a good tuner. The same song, it's all there, yet something almost undefinable has changed.
Still with the Soncoz in play we had a listen to the last couple of tunes from 'We Get Requests' by Oscar Peterson Trio'. This sounded good. We then swapped the Soekris back in and played the same tracks again. Now I could not really hear any change, but Ollie reckoned it was a big difference. We then listened to 'The Last Time I Saw Richard' from Joni Mitchell's 'Blue' album on both DACs. Again I did not think there was any appreciable difference.
Ollie thought it was risible that I could not hear a difference and mentioned a few specific things he had noticed such as the vibrato on Joni's voice being better resolved through the Soekris, and the piano sounding like an upright through the Soncoz but a concert grand through the Soekris.
I find it difficult to hold the memory of the sound in my head during the interval of time while the DACs are switched out. I think if I had some way to compare by fast switching between them I would have more of a chance to pick up on any differences. But I think that does indicate that these were not huge differences but subtle.
Of course subtle matters. But do bear in mind this was all sighted listening and volume was only matched by ear. Which brings me to the conclusion.
If this was a dealer demo and I'd heard all three DACs with a view to taking one home, which one would I go for?
I'd go for the Soekris.
Not that you can get this one from a dealer since it is not stock. Ollie advised that the stock version, with its switch mode supplies. was not as good as this modded one. But after several hours listening my gut instinct was that this was the DAC I preferred. Even though it is the most expensive by some margin, even before you swap the power supplies out.
Personally, with retirement coming up, I don't think I will be splashing out on one. But it was very interesting to be able to do the comparison and to be able to have a go on the Neurochrome 686. My sincere thanks to Ollie for making it happen and for finding another Krell for me.
walpurgis
22-04-2021, 20:24
Good write-up there Martin! :thumbsup:
Opti-cal
23-04-2021, 08:08
Good honest opinions there Martin.
I can't fault my 686, superb dynamics is the overall impression. Goes without saying everything else is handled well.
I'm glad the more expensive, modified DAC won out on the day, I'm quite happy with the performance from both my E30 and SGD1. To me the SGD1 does expand on everything the E30 does well, but with better bass and soundstage etc. The E30 isn't far off though, especially with the ifi power supply.
As I've also been a big advocate of tube DAC's in the past I've also gone and ordered a custom built, non-over-sampling tube DAC built with TDA1545 chips and Telefunken C3M tubes. I'm sure a proper R2R DAC will turn up in my stable one day too as the new wave of the implementation intrigues me.
New Krell KSA50S is up and running! It's cost me an arm and a leg to get another one but it was worth it.
https://i.ibb.co/TRMrxgj/krell-new.jpg (https://ibb.co/1KGbtmy)
walpurgis
26-04-2021, 15:59
Very nice.
Run both and you won't need any heating next winter :).
New Krell KSA50S is up and running! It's cost me an arm and a leg to get another one but it was worth it.
https://i.ibb.co/TRMrxgj/krell-new.jpg (https://ibb.co/1KGbtmy)
its a big beastie..
Very nice.
Run both and you won't need any heating next winter :).
it has the plateau biasing so it only runs hot if you cane it. I don't tend to use more than 1 watt continuous so it never gets beyond lukewarm.
The KSA100 on the other hand puts out 650 watts of heat regardless so that one is handy for winter listening. Although I'll have to sell that at some point to cover the cost of buying this one.
Looking good Martin. :)
It's a big beast, as are the speaker cables! :eek:
Yeah the cables are overkill but I already had them lying about so why not?
I went in to the pro shop at lunchtime to get the DCB1 back to use with the Krell. The engineer comes out of his little room and says 'I've got bad news for you.'
I thought he'd blown it up or lost it or dropped something on it and smashed it or something. But he produces it and it looks fine.
Then the owner comes out and asks me 'How much did you pay for this?' In truth I don't remember but it wasn't a lot. He says 'It doesn't amplify! It's just a connection box with a volume pot!'
I told him I knew that - you're getting 2 volts out of the DAC you don't need to amplify it again. They couldn't get their heads around the idea of a zero-gain active pre-amp at all. They thought I was some hi-fi mug punter who'd been ripped off.
I said 'This was designed by Nelson Pass you know.'
'Never heard of him.'
'Designed for Adcom? Threshold? Pass Labs?'
'Never heard of them.'
Gotta love the pro boys.
whare do you come from boy?.... New Jersey sir..... Never heard of it;)
well that's not good, seem to have some distortion start after an hour or so. Don't know what is at fault. Will have to have a mess about tomorrow when I'm off work.
well that's not good, seem to have some distortion start after an hour or so. Don't know what is at fault. Will have to have a mess about tomorrow when I'm off work.
doesnt sound good martin... might have to go back:rolleyes:
well that's not good, seem to have some distortion start after an hour or so. Don't know what is at fault. Will have to have a mess about tomorrow when I'm off work.
aw shit :( :scratch:
Might be the DCB1 since that has just come back from the shop. But then I thought that last time.
Private sale, paid by bank transfer and collected in person, if it is the amp that's faulty I've got no legal comeback.
Was thinking if it's both channels then it may be the pre. Failing that the odds on both channels of power amp going at same time and doing same thing are remote. That would go back to psu.. Maybe..
Try it with another pre first mate
Was thinking if it's both channels then it may be the pre. Failing that the odds on both channels of power amp going at same time and doing same thing are remote. That would go back to psu.. Maybe..
Try it with another pre first mate
That's a good point and it is both channels the same. I'll have a fault finding session tomorrow when I'm fresh. Got day off work tomorrow so I got all day.
walpurgis
26-04-2021, 17:29
Hope it's something simple mate. Double check all cables and connections, I'm sure you don't need telling.
Fingers crossed for a simple fix Amigo.
It was fine for about 70 minutes so can't be cables or connections, it must be something caused by warm-up otherwise would have started right from the off.
Fingers crossed for a simple fix Amigo.
Well if it is broken that means I've got two broken ones. As long as it isn't the same problem with both I can maybe make one working one out of the two. :)
Tried the Krell using a Soncoz DAC as a pre-amp. Played for maybe 10 minutes okay then left channel starts intermittently cutting out, then both channels cut out completely after 30 minutes or so.
Not the same issue I had yesterday when there was no issues with cutting out but there was distortion on both channels. Now there's no distortion but cutting out instead. Weird. But clearly there is something not right about it.
May sound a bit daft - but are the connections secure, especially the inputs?
I ask because I had a similar problem a few weeks ago: I had rearranged some of my kit, and one of the XLR connectors had not been pushed fully home, resulting in intermittent contact. Not sure why it had happened because XLRs mate with a satisfying 'click' when pushed home.
Yes, checked every connection, they all seem solid.
I'll swap in another power amp I think, keep everything else the same, just to be sure.
Going to go out for a walk first, clear my head, get the energy levels up a bit.
Might be the DCB1 since that has just come back from the shop. But then I thought that last time.
Private sale, paid by bank transfer and collected in person, if it is the amp that's faulty I've got no legal comeback.
Jeez... I tuned into your channel, daftee, hopefully to read tales of joy and contentment, at the arrival of the (holy grail) Krell, and instead, yet again, I'm met with tales of woe!:doh:
What a bugger... The hi-fi gods seem to have abandoned you these days. Anyway, I hope you get things sorted soon, and that the issue isn't with the Krell.
Marco.
What was the outcome then, did you change amps or what?:)
Marco.
Swapped to using a DAC as pre-amp, same issue,.
Swapped all cables, even swapped in different speakers. It's the amp at fault.
Fuck, that's a downer.... Did the seller say it was in full working order - was it tested in any way before it was sent to you?
What's your next move, mate? Btw, how much did the Krell cost you?:)
Marco.
Yes tested and working fine before money changed hands. But it does work fine for 30 mins to an hour or so before it starts playing up.
Cost-wise let's just say it was expensive.
You wonder though if the seller knew of the fault, and that it likely wouldn't reveal itself in a quick test, just to sell the amp.
So what's he saying about it all? If I were in his shoes, I'd either be offering to pay for it to be fixed or a full refund. If you've got any integrity at all, you don't sell someone an expensive piece of equipment, which immediately becomes faulty, and just wash your hands of it.
Decent folk don't do that:nono:
Marco.
The worse faults to track down and rectify are those that are 'time dependant' only manifesting themselves after a half hour or so. They are usually temperature related, hence will only start to have an effect after the equipment has warmed up. Class A SS amps get hot, so are often prone to such problems.
It is tempting to suspect the seller knew of the fault, but there is no way of knowing, apart from seeing what his reaction is to the news. Sometimes these things just happen. A couple of years ago I sold an ADC26 cartridge to a Member here. After a few hours of use the suspension collapsed (ADCs have a very high compliance and the rubber used is known to easily perish with time). On hearing of the failure, I immediately offered to refund the monies (it wasn't a lot), but the buyer declined my offer as he was aware of the risk (and replacement stylii are still available).
Do Krell have agents in this country who could look at the amp and provide an estimate?
Were I the seller I would return the monies and take the amp back.
we usually used a hair drier and some towels to speed up the fault... set yourself up and you'll often as not find it.
It is tempting to suspect the seller knew of the fault, but there is no way of knowing, apart from seeing what his reaction is to the news.
Indeed (on all counts), Barry. However, the above is primarily what I'd like to know... As if he gets all arsey about it, that'll tell its own story, as indeed would the opposite reaction.
Martin, I presume you've contacted the seller and alerted him to the problem?
Marco.
Why? He should be accepting some responsibility!
What would you have done in his position? Knowing you, I know the answer to that, and it wouldn't be simply sinking the cash and saying 'fuck it'..
Marco.
as i said before it was collection in person, tested and working at the time. There's no comeback to the seller in that situation. Once it leaves him anything could have happened to it in the intervening time period.
No different to buying a car in a private sale, you can't go back a week later and complain it's knackered. You could have been rallying it or something in the mean time. How does the seller know you haven't been? I would refuse a refund in that situation (indeed I have).
Not the same as posting something out to someone and it arrives broken or faulty.
Firebottle
28-04-2021, 11:46
I have worked on Martin's first Krell and have had it operating at high output power for 2-3 hours without problem.
Once it's made its way to Stoke then the laws of physics seem to break down :eyebrows:
There are certain aspects of the design I am not keen on, it does run hot internally, particularly one point.
I am going to fix this as I don't like challenges not to have successful outcomes.
as i said before it was collection in person, tested and working at the time. There's no comeback to the seller in that situation. Once it leaves him anything could have happened to it in the intervening time period.
We'll have to agree to disagree, perhaps not legally, but certainly ethically. What would you have done had you been the seller? If I know you, refunded the buyer in full, as would have Barry (as he's said), and I also. Regardless of any legal obligations, it's the correct/decent thing to do!
You still haven't said if the seller knows there's a problem or not, so does he or doesn't he?
And more importantly, what happens now - yet another box to join the growing graveyard of broken kit, chez-Macca?:doh: Or who's going to fix it?
If I were you, I'd be beyond livid, as I have an extremely low-tolerance threshold for depressing cack like that happening!
That's why, whenever I buy vintage gear (such as the Tandberg tape deck I got recently) I always *ensure first* that if there are any problems, there's a professional on hand to sort them out, but most of all I cover ALL bases to ensure, as far as possible, that I'm not left with a 'pup'.
I also collected the Tandberg from a private seller, but he was good enough to offer me a month's warranty, and he was a genuine guy whom I'm confident would've honoured it.
Anyway, mate. I'm gutted for you:(
Marco.
I have worked on Martin's first Krell and have had it operating at high output power for 2-3 hours without problem.
Once it's made its way to Stoke then the laws of physics seem to break down :eyebrows:
I know, talk about bad luck!!:doh:
I am going to fix this as I don't like challenges not to have successful outcomes.
Nice one, Alan - you're a class act!:clap::)
Marco.
I have worked on Martin's first Krell and have had it operating at high output power for 2-3 hours without problem.
Once it's made its way to Stoke then the laws of physics seem to break down :eyebrows:
There are certain aspects of the design I am not keen on, it does run hot internally, particularly one point.
I am going to fix this as I don't like challenges not to have successful outcomes.
I'll arrange to bring them down to you Alan. Let me know when you are available. I don't think we are breaking any lockdown rules now.
Does the seller know about the problem or not, mate?
Marco.
Does the seller know about the problem or not, mate?
Marco.
Not that I'm aware but as explained it is irrelevant.
For you perhaps, but if it were me, it would be a rather different matter!
Anyway, I hope Alan can fix it for you soon:)
Marco.
If I'd sold it to you Martin I'd be mortified and would do everything I could to help you sort the problem out, only right in my opinion.
Anyway hope you can get it fixed (and maybe the other one?).
walpurgis
28-04-2021, 14:18
It's possible the seller may not know there was a problem with the Krell, especially as it was not his main amp. I'd speak to him and ask if he'd help towards the repair cost.
If I'd sold it to you Martin I'd be mortified and would do everything I could to help you sort the problem out, only right in my opinion.
Exactly, yet it's a point Martin doesn't seem able or willing to accept. That's why it is most certainly NOT "irrelevant". In any case, WHO is this mystery seller - someone on here or another forum, or what?
Marco.
It's possible the seller may not know there was a problem with the Krell, especially as it was not his main amp. I'd speak to him and ask if he'd help towards the repair cost.
Yup, me too. What is there to lose? He could only say no.
Marco.
Exactly, yet it's a point Martin doesn't seem able or willing to accept. That's why it is most certainly NOT "irrelevant". In any case, WHO is this mystery seller - someone on here or another forum, or what?
Marco.
I've never met him, deal was done through a third party, (not his fault). The amp was tested for 40 minutes before it was paid for and taken away and was fine. It was fine for over an hour when I got it here.
It looks brand new and is in the original packaging, it had not been used for 10 years.
I am not going to go chasing after someone I don't even know who is under no legal obligation to refund or pay towards repair or anything.
I will pay for repair myself. It's just one of those things. I've been buying used equipment for 30 odd years, not the first time I have got a dodgy one, probably won't be the last. Really not a big deal for me.
Fair enough, but it's not a case (or at least shouldn't be) of 'chasing after' anyone.
If I were the seller, for the sake of politeness, if nothing else, I'd have been keen to know how the buyer got on with his purchase (just how I'm wired, and I suspect also others here), and so in that respect would've sought to contact him or her later.
Had that been the case, you'd have had the opportunity to mention what's happened, and if the seller had any kind of integrity, would as Roy and Barry have said, sorted it out.
If you're happy, that's fine [and what counts most], but I certainly wouldn't be, and indeed that's how I'd have conducted matters. Probably one of the reasons why I almost never encounter any problems with the stuff I buy - that and the fact I'm a very organised and fussy bugger!;)
Marco.
You hardly ever buy anything! Try buying a second=hand bit of kit once a month for the next 12 months and we'll see how long it takes for one to arrive faulty or develop a fault. It's really not uncommon.
The amount I buy it's a wonder I don't get more duffers. It's just the law of averages mate.
You hardly ever buy anything! Try buying a second=hand bit of kit once a month for the next 12 months and we'll see how long it takes for one to arrive faulty or develop a fault. It's really not uncommon.
Lol, no thanks, I'll leave that to you and the rest of the box swappers!:ner::D;)
More seriously, I take your point, but I've still done a fair bit of buying and selling gear in nearly 40 years as an audio enthusiast, and I can count on one hand any major problems or disasters I've had, so that's not simply a 'happy accident'.
Anyway, moving on, what's important now is getting the bugger fixed! In that respect, thank goodness for people like Alan:)
Marco.
Yes, I'm sure Alan can sort it.
Just to make the point, looking around the living room right now there's 31 pieces of hi-fi equipment in view (counting pairs of speakers as 1 item)
24 of them were bought used. Of those only 2 were faulty on arrival (this Krell and a Denon PMA250) and including them 5 are faulty now, although they are all faults that developed after many hours of use since I got them.
That's not a bad hit to miss ration for second hand audio kit, twenty-three to one. And I've since had the Denon fixed, it just needed a new pot. There's a CD player just needs a new belt and another just needs a jammed disc taking out. So not catastrophic faults by any means.
No, not at all, but haven't you also got a spare room (or two?) fully of 'junk'?:eek::D;)
And does that also include your two (not working, as far as I'm aware) Technics broadcast CDPs?
Every single piece of kit or speakers I've got, in both of my systems, works (including any spares), but that's not a valid comparison, as I'm not a box swapper. In any case, all I'd like to see is you end up, ASAP, with a system that ticks ALL of *your* boxes, and with it, your head in a happy place:)
So, in that respect, I'm guessing that a fully working Krell would be a big part of that, as well as one of the Technics CDPs, or are you saying now that your Audiolab transport (and whatever DAC you're using) is better than either of the Techies?
Marco.
No, not at all, but haven't you also got a spare room (or two?) fully of 'junk'?:eek::D;)
And does that also include your two (not working, as far as I'm aware) Technics broadcast CDPs?
Every single piece of kit or speakers I've got, in both of my systems, works (including any spares), but that's not a valid comparison, as I'm not a box swapper. In any case, all I'd like to see is you end up, ASAP, with a system that ticks ALL of *your* boxes, and with it, your head in a happy place:)
So, in that respect, I'm guessing that a fully working Krell would be a big part of that, as well as one of the Technics CDPs, or are you saying now that your Audiolab transport (and whatever DAC you're using) is better than either of the Techies?
Marco.
I only have one Technics slp1200 these days. It does work, but not flawlessly. I've not actually done a back to back comparison, but the transport and DAC combo is superb. You couldn't want for more.
I'm not a box-swapper as I rarely sell anything. I sold a couple of amplifiers last year but that's fairly rare event for me. I'm more of a collector. Or was. When I retire next year I'll have time to sort through stuff and rationalise the hoard to some extent. Not in any desperate hurry to do that though.
No worries, I hear ya:)
So, a collector then, sire, not a box-swapper... In these days of 'gender fluidity', one should get a man's title right!:D
It'll be interesting though how much of collector you'll be in future, when you fit the missing part of the jigsaw to your system [getting the Krell working] and it delivers the sound you've always wanted.
I'd maintain that much of your 'collecting' of equipment was in pursuit of achieving 'that certain sound', as much as any love of the boxes themselves, so in the absence of a need to continue that pursuit, the desire to collect will naturally diminish..
We'll see!;)
Marco.
There's still some stuff I would like to own just because I've always wanted to. Like the Yamaha NS1000M.
There's still some stuff I would like to own just because I've always wanted to. Like the Yamaha NS1000M.
yeah if you can fill a long sated desire you should. i always wanted a nice B&O but i never got one.. not many nice ones now so not knowing much about, i decided it would be one that got away audio wise.
Elsewhere, a bells and whistles espresso machine was always another; still maybe a chance of that i suppose. I always wanted to buy a brand new car and managed that one tho:eyebrows:
I would like to describe myself as a 'collector', but some might describe me as a 'hoarder'. I collect certain items of audio equipment for the following reasons:
[1] I have a particular interest in the company (the obvious example for me is Quad), and their products
[2] To acquire items which when I started out (over 50 years ago), were way beyond my means and hence aspirational (for example Radford, Cambridge and Quad amplifiers, and several cartridges)
[3] I'm fascinated by the whole subject of vinyl replay, and thus like to try out various arms and cartridges. Probably taken this aspect a little too far with 9 pickup arms and over 30 cartridges.
No doubt a poor excuse - but it's mine. ;)
Lol, and you're fooling no-one:D
No, that's cool. If I had the room, I'd love to build a museum, paying suitable homage to vintage BBC broadcast (mainly analogue) equipment and loudspeakers [circa 1958 - 1989, as once used at Broadcasting House in London] - but it would be tastefully done, with everything in as mint condition as possible and beautifully displayed:)
Marco.
Beobloke
29-04-2021, 10:32
yeah if you can fill a long sated desire you should. i always wanted a nice B&O but i never got one.. not many nice ones now so not knowing much about, i decided it would be one that got away audio wise.
Tell me what B&O gear it is that you fancy and I’m sure I can assist in making it happen for you.
And I how you get your Krell fixed, Macca. It’s horrible to have an ‘endgame’ item die on you. My Sony PS-X9 went up in flames (literally!) at the end of last year. After a search to locate some very rare components for it and a two month trip to my friend’s workbench, it’s now back up to full health again but I’m scared to turn it on...
Tell me what B&O gear it is that you fancy and I’m sure I can assist in making it happen for you.
And I how you get your Krell fixed, Macca. It’s horrible to have an ‘endgame’ item die on you. My Sony PS-X9 went up in flames (literally!) at the end of last year. After a search to locate some very rare components for it and a two month trip to my friend’s workbench, it’s now back up to full health again but I’m scared to turn it on...
Heard of amps going up in flames but not a turntable!
Why can't all hi-fi be indestructible like the Technics SL1200? - If there was a nuclear war all that would be left would be cockroaches, Toyota Hiluxes and SL1200s
Tell me what B&O gear it is that you fancy and I’m sure I can assist in making it happen for you.
And I how you get your Krell fixed, Macca. It’s horrible to have an ‘endgame’ item die on you. My Sony PS-X9 went up in flames (literally!) at the end of last year. After a search to locate some very rare components for it and a two month trip to my friend’s workbench, it’s now back up to full health again but I’m scared to turn it on...
ive no idea tbh.. i just love the designs.. an old workmate when i was young had a full system. it was rather lovely. im probably getting rid of my system as im not using it now. might put the procedes to one. cheers
Heard of amps going up in flames but not a turntable!
Why can't all hi-fi be indestructible like the Technics SL1200? - If there was a nuclear war all that would be left would be cockroaches, Toyota Hiluxes and SL1200s
you wont find many in the states due to the dratted chicken tax, which amazingly still stands on suvs
Beobloke
29-04-2021, 11:39
Heard of amps going up in flames but not a turntable!
Why can't all hi-fi be indestructible like the Technics SL1200? - If there was a nuclear war all that would be left would be cockroaches, Toyota Hiluxes and SL1200s
And SME V arms - don't forget them!
Yes, they were flames - small ones, mind you, but flames nevertheless.
And SME V arms - don't forget to put them in the bin!
Fixt that for you;)
Marco.
Beobloke
29-04-2021, 12:52
Fixt that for you;)
Marco.
Terrible waste. I’d still wager they’re great for knocking in fence posts.
:)
Lol - only kidding. I know you love yours, and got a new one recently. How's it sounding?:)
Marco.
Beobloke
29-04-2021, 17:16
The only word I can come up with is “spectacular”. I used to think the 309 I have was about 80% as good as a V. I am now revising that figure to 65%
Good-o - a nice result, then!:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
30-04-2021, 23:42
Sent you a PM Martin.
I want one of these:
https://i.ibb.co/CKmg6BT/gold-dac.jpg (https://ibb.co/MkZrfn3)
walpurgis
20-05-2021, 19:13
Looks nice in a bit of a gaudy way. What is it?
I want one of these:
https://i.ibb.co/CKmg6BT/gold-dac.jpg (https://ibb.co/MkZrfn3)
Bling? Why?:D
Is it a DAC?
Marco.
A Bricast DAC. It's like 8K for the standard one and 15K for the gold one. But it is real gold powder coating apparently.
Didn't think you were into bling... Or are you jesting?:)
For me, it looks hideous and so wouldn't give it house room, no matter how good it sounded!
Marco.
No I like it. It's bling done right.
Didn't think you were into bling... Or are you jesting?
For me, it looks hideous and so wouldn't give it house room, no matter how good it sounded!
+1, though I would be interested to see what the 'standard one' looked like, and save myself £7,000 into the bargain.
No I like it. It's bling done right.
No it ain't, it looks like what someone would buy just to show off, regardless of sound quality.
It's got no fancy styling cues though which is what I hate. If it was in white it would look like lab equipment. It's just lab equipment dipped in gold.
I mean even if I could afford one I wouldn't buy one. But I still think it's cool.
Each to his or her own. I see nothing that makes it cool, but it might sound great!:)
Marco.
This isn't a DAC, and I've no idea how good it is or otherwise, but if you like hi-fi equipment to look like lab gear, then this is it:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/Fu18sy.jpg
Grey, sombre and functional, but with lots of cool switches and dials! That gold thing you posted before is an abomination in comparison.
Marco.
No I don't like that at all., trying too hard to look vintage.
I want one of these:
https://i.ibb.co/CKmg6BT/gold-dac.jpg (https://ibb.co/MkZrfn3)
the feet i dont like, but the body shape is good.. not convinced re gold, but hey ho..
It's got no fancy styling cues though which is what I hate. If it was in white it would look like lab equipment. It's just lab equipment dipped in gold.
I mean even if I could afford one I wouldn't buy one. But I still think it's cool.
Think the standard one's got a bit of a Mark Levinson look about it?
Kinda like it!
https://www.bricasti.com/images/m3/m3_feature10.jpg
Actually looked at this one when picking up my current dac,
preferred the option of programmable FPGA and free software upgrades down the line, so went with PS Audio.
the feet i dont like, but the body shape is good.. not convinced re gold, but hey ho..
The feet are a little bit over-designed but not enough to spoil it.
Think the standard one's got a bit of a Mark Levinson look about it?
Kinda like it!
https://www.bricasti.com/images/m3/m3_feature10.jpg
Actually looked at this one when picking up my current dac,
preferred the option of programmable FPGA and free software upgrades down the line, so went with PS Audio.
It does look very Levinson doesn't it? I like it but still rather have the gold one because it's ridiculous.
It does look very Levinson doesn't it? I like it but still rather have the gold one because it's ridiculous.
:D
Ridiculous...never bettered.
Can I recommend something in our new line of Discerning Gentleman's Neck-wear Sir?
https://2shopper.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/filepicker_pv0ixhz9skuqan1jqwm2_slick_rick.jpg?w=4 32&h=542
I take it it's American? has that look:) tbh the gold is better than the black and the feet look better face on
I take it it's American? has that look:) tbh the gold is better than the black and the feet look better face on
Golds a bit much for me, but even the black's not perfect.
I'd be removing the lid of it and getting it black powder coated by my local car spray-painter...silver lid looks wrong.
walpurgis
21-05-2021, 12:17
https://2shopper.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/filepicker_pv0ixhz9skuqan1jqwm2_slick_rick.jpg?w=4 32&h=542
I wonder if he realises that he looks a complete dick? :lol:
Its a feature, not a flaw...
Think the standard one's got a bit of a Mark Levinson look about it?
Kinda like it!
https://www.bricasti.com/images/m3/m3_feature10.jpg
Actually looked at this one when picking up my current dac,
preferred the option of programmable FPGA and free software upgrades down the line, so went with PS Audio.
It looks better IMO than the gold finished version (and cheaper too), but as you say it would have been better if all of the case was the same colour. Also I don't like the different shaped buttons used.
Agree Barry,
Buttons should be the same to keep the Design consistent.
Obviously a design decision to separate functional button operation, but has inconsistency across the whole.
Should all be circular to match the biggest visual element, the volume knob.
they are not really noticable in gold tho.:eyebrows:
That's true..!
Looking again at the Gold version,
MY EYES HURT!!
That's true..!
Looking again at the Gold version,
MY EYES HURT!!
:lolsign::lolsign::lolsign: the black one is worse for me.. its so imbalanced visually
No I don't like that at all., trying too hard to look vintage.
Yeah I agree. That was found just with a quick search... This is it done right, and it's also a truly fab bit of kit:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/Tzah6c.jpg
Lurvely... You can keep yer gold shite!;)
Marco.
Or even better, check out the gear from this company (click on 'Picture Gallery'): http://www.thoeress.com/en/preamplifier/
Gives me a chubby just LOOKING at that preamp!!:drool::drool:
No-one else does 'science lab audio' like it.... And look at this for a power amp - like summat out a WW2 ammo factory: http://www.thoeress.com/en/845-mono-amplifier/
Would love to hear some of their gear in a proper demo. Hi-fi equipment should always look PURPOSEFUL, not 'sexy'!!:exactly:
Marco.
It does look very Levinson doesn't it?
Yes, and your goldie's, rather DarTZeel: https://dartzeel.com/
Marco.
Yeah I agree. That was found just with a quick search... This is it done right, and it's also a truly fab bit of kit:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/Tzah6c.jpg
Lurvely... You can keep yer gold shite!;)
Marco.
They look good, don't agree about the sound though, never heard any EAR equipment I was keen on.
Yes, and your goldie's, rather DarTZeel: https://dartzeel.com/
Marco.
No that's just nasty with the red sides. If I saw it in a skip I'd leave it. There's a way to do gold bling and that's not it.
What do you think of the Thoeress stuff? If it sounded amazing, it's the only thing I'd swap my Croft and Copper amp for!:)
Marco.
What do you think of the Thoeress stuff? If it sounded amazing, it's the only thing I'd swap my Croft and Copper amp for!:)
Marco.
Not that keen on how they look. The pre amp is okay but that power amp - just no!
I think that is where we differ. If we're talking 'retro' I like the 1970s sci-fi look not the 1950s sci-fi look, if that makes sense?
Overall I like the appearence, but don't like the plastic knobs. When Japanese gear appeared in the UK in the mid '60s, I was impressed with the 'turned-from-solid' metal knobs; compared to the 'toothpaste' cap knobs of most UK gear at the time. This phonostage looks a bit better IMO:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5147/5580680823_10be079029_b.jpg
or this:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/JUR7RhBs0kKOaCqYUl-LWG7wT-PXj3dZoBdlrmnB9QBFPl9s4kjglxvAifhLPSTLhZNAsgqtf92N qlhrSTo9vVoRB5JYVk6vKDHh3hPOPqUQHBvPwQ
I do like the look of the TdP preamp - save the use of italic script lettering. I hate italic lettering on any audio gear, regardles of its sound quality.
If you like the TdP preamp Marco, what do you think of the EMT JPA66 preamp (in hammer finish grey of course)? Maybe a bit too industrial looking.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/highend2012/050312/emt_phono_stage.jpg
That's more like it Barry. I agree about the plastic knobs on the Thoeresse - first thing I noticed. Cheapens the whole look.
Not that keen on how they look. The pre amp is okay but that power amp - just no!
I think that is where we differ. If we're talking 'retro' I like the 1970s sci-fi look not the 1950s sci-fi look, if that makes sense?
Lol, totally! For me though, the 1950s 'science-lab' look, for gear, is much more interesting and 'proper', as that's largely when the best equipment was made!
However, we broadly have similar tastes, In that respect, you could cite any number of 1970s versions of what we're discussing, and I would like them - I just don't 'do' bling (or indeed) gold of ANY description on audio equipment...
I especially hate it on turntables (gold tonearms, platters, weights, etc), as for me it's too 'showy', crass and smacks of the rather vulgar nouveau riche.. It's like guys with 'mahogany tans' who adorn themselves in gold jewellery, such as chains, blingy gold watches and sovereign rings, have a questionable taste in tailoring and stink of Old Spice, who probably also like bling-fi!:D
Yes... Otherwise known as 'Key-janglers';)
Marco.
Another thing is equipment having names instead of alpha-numeric designations. I've got a house full of equipment here and I don't have anything that has a name.
If an audio product has a name instead of a designation that rings alarm bells with me right away. Doesn't automatically mean it will be crap but there's more chance of it being crap.
Overall I like the appearence, but don't like the plastic knobs. When Japanese gear appeared in the UK in the mid '60s, I was impressed with the 'turned-from-solid' metal knobs; compared to the 'toothpaste' cap knobs of most UK gear at the time. This phonostage looks a bit better IMO:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5147/5580680823_10be079029_b.jpg
Yes, totally take your point about the plastic knobs. Although I find them charming, in their own way, I'd much prefer them to be beautifully milled solid billets of aluminium, or some such, which delivered the 'knob feel' of, say, a Copland. However, that aside, I love their 'purposeful' look and eschewing of vacuous fashion trends or 'WAF factor'!:D
If you like the TdP preamp Marco, what do you think of the EMT JPA66 preamp (in hammer finish grey of course)? Maybe a bit too industrial looking.
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/highend2012/050312/emt_phono_stage.jpg
No, not at all.. It's awesome,, The EMT is one of my fav bits of kit! And really what I as thinking of when I posted a pic of the E.A.R, although I do also like that. However, I *LOVE* the EMT's 'industrial' look, which is also why a hammered grey Garrard 301, a la BBC, is my favourite vintage turntable!
I'm also attracted to the styling of Nagra gear, as I know you are, and Braun, as I dig it's nod to Bauhaus:)
Not a fan of the 'Levinson look' though, sorry, although I love vintage Quad!
Marco.
Another thing is equipment having names instead of alpha-numeric designations. I've got a house full of equipment here and I don't have anything that has a name.
If an audio product has a name instead of a designation that rings alarm bells with me right away. Doesn't automatically mean it will be crap but there's more chance of it being crap.
cant say i agree, but each to their own. numbers are a bit souless imo, or can be.. as for the plastic on the raven; looks ok to me actually and fits the design
Another thing is equipment having names instead of alpha-numeric designations. I've got a house full of equipment here and I don't have anything that has a name.
If an audio product has a name instead of a designation that rings alarm bells with me right away. Doesn't automatically mean it will be crap but there's more chance of it being crap.
I had to think for a moment there - surely every product has a name; the name of the manufacturer? But of course you meant how you designate a particular model.
Well in the past I once briefly used a Linn 'Asak' cartridge (though it did have a model number: DC2100K, "DC to 100K" :rolleyes:). Most Linn cartridges have 'names', though I await the Linn 'Krap'. Likewise I have tried out a Sumiko 'Bluepoint Stereo' cartridge. And of course all the Koetsu cartridges only have names.
I once had a Decca 'London International', and you are right it was crap: very shoddy construction. But I still have an Infinity 'Black Widow II' arm in my collection; perhaps the Mk. II appellation excuses it?
But the most Zen of items in my system is a buffer amplifier. This has no markings on it whatsoever, not even the connectors are marked: the only way of distinguishing the inputs from the outputs is by the gender of the XLR connectors.
Trying to think if I have ever owned anything with a name and the only one I can come up with is KEF 'Calinda' speakers. Although they were quite good so doesn't help my theory much.
Trying to think if I have ever owned anything with a name and the only one I can come up with is KEF 'Calinda' speakers. Although they were quite good so doesn't help my theory much.
well my speakers have a number designation; ie, mk1, but amp has a name, as in 'classic remix'; a pretty crap name tbh and not especially worthy of italian style.:D
but oppos are all numbers i think. my cd/bray player being a 103d
The Japanese can usually be relied on for a good designation. Unless you stray into valve amps or MC cartridges.
L-509X has a nice ring to it :D
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49295996217_997eb3491f_o.jpg
The business of giving audio gear names started with the Americans. I think (the sadly late) James Bongiorno started it with his company 'The Great American Sound' (known to everyone as the 'GAS company') and amplifier designs called "Ampzilla" and "Son of Ampzilla". :)
This then spawned other less modest names for audio gear, such as the late Tom Fletcher's arm: "The Arm" (though I think it might have also had an number: MDC-800) for example, and William Firebaugh's "The Well-Tempered Arm". There were turntables modestly titled "The Source".
I have an American-sourced arm (though it is made in Japan), an Infinity "Black Widow". (Kept because it has the lowest effective mass of any arm I have seen: 3g)
Lawrence001
25-05-2021, 20:24
The business of giving audio gear names started with the Americans. I think (the sadly late) James Bongiorno started it with his company 'The Great American Sound' (known to everyone as the 'GAS company') and amplifier designs called "Ampzilla" and "Son of Ampzilla". :)
This then spawned other less modest names for audio gear, such as the late Tom Fletcher's arm: "The Arm" (though I think it might have also had an number: MDC-800) for example, and William Firebaugh's "The Well-Tempered Arm". There were turntables modestly titled "The Source".
I have an American-sourced arm (though it is made in Japan), an Infinity "Black Widow". (Kept because it has the lowest effective mass of any arm I have seen: 3g)What year was that? The first British one I'm aware of was Musical Fidelity's "The Pre Amp" in the early 80s although there's probably some earlier example I haven't thought of.
Alan brought me back my Krells today. My gratitude to him is without bounds. Thanks Alan.
Don't want to say anymore in case I jinx it
walpurgis
26-05-2021, 16:51
Ah, that's good mate. :)
fingers x-ed mate... yo deseve a break with those
Great news! Lol... I'm sure they're sounding fab!!;)
When you feel safe to confirm that, let us know:D In the meantime, enjoy:cool:
Marco.
fingers x-ed mate... yo deseve a break with those
+1 (with bells on).
Marco
Ali Tait
26-05-2021, 19:05
Aye hope all is good mate, Alan is the man.
Alan brought me back my Krells today. My gratitude to him is without bounds. Thanks Alan.
Don't want to say anymore in case I jinx it
Fingers and toes crossed! :)
What year was that? The first British one I'm aware of was Musical Fidelity's "The Pre Amp" in the early 80s although there's probably some earlier example I haven't thought of.
The mid to late '70s for the American gear. You're right, Musical Fidelity continued the trend in the the UK with their 'TVA' power amplifier (the 'Thermionic Valve Amplifier'), the 'MVT' preamp (named after the designer Michael Vincent Thomas (?)), as well as 'The Preamp'. As well as the prosaically-named Nowegian built 'The Two Channel Amplifier'.
But thinking about it some more, Rogers in the late '60s were naming their amps with the Rogers 'Cadet' and 'Master' valve amps. And of course Quad stood for 'QUality Amplifier, Domestic'. :)
Beobloke
27-05-2021, 08:11
. And of course Quad stood for 'QUality Amplifier, Domestic'. :)
Nerd Mode ON
Quality Unit Amplifier Domestic actually... ;)
Nerd Mode OFF
quality(in glesgae accent)
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MiserableDependentBagworm-max-1mb.gif
:popcorn::popcorn:
So how's it sounding?:)
Marco.
will report later got loads on right now.
Okies, no worries:)
Marco.
Okay work is done for the day.
Here's one of the KS50s with the Philips 22AH380 (good designation!) 'Black Tulip' preamplifer and Soncoz SGD-1 DAC.
https://i.ibb.co/KLS1Sy6/krell.jpg (https://ibb.co/rcNWNyk)
What's the point of using a monster amp like this which won't even fit on the rack, instead of the power amp of the NAD320BEE? The NAD is rated at 50 wpc and actually gives 67, the Krell is rated at 50 wpc and delivers 75. So really there's no effective difference in power output.
Two things really. First is pretty simple, the speakers impedance drops to 2.4 ohms and the NAD, with its little cigarette-packet sized frame transformer struggles a bit with that. Bass not quite so tight and taught, and not as well defined in terms of the timbre of the bass instrument.
Nevertheless it still sounds 'good' and if you hadn't heard the speakers sound better you'd be fine with it. But the NAD (which would probably cost about £500 in today's money) would never have been intended to partner speakers like the JM Lab.
So bass frequencies are tighter, more solid and more defined with the Krell.
The second thing is a bit harder to pin down. Imagine you are watching the telly, picture looks good, you're happy with it, and then some expert comes in and twiddles with some setting and suddenly there's just a little bit of extra sharpness and focus.
Not a big thing but now you have that picture quality going back to what you had before you can never not notice that it just isn't quite as clear as it was.
Assuming it's all still working at the weekend I'll swap in the DCB1 pre-amp which I recall as being a bit better with the Krell than the Philips is. With the NAD the Philips is the better match. The NAD was not keen on a zero gain pre-amp. It worked but there was something a bit 'edgy' about the sound from that combo.
Great its working out for ya Martin, you deserve a bit of luck mate.
I'm lucky to know Alan!
Got to make the most of it before I get neighbours again. Saw the bloke who owns one of them the other day, says he's got a mate of his moving in there soon.
I asked him if the music might be a problem and he says he doubts it, the bloke used to be a roadie for Iron Maiden. So that's a result.
Got to make the most of it before I get neighbours again. Saw the bloke who owns one of them the other day, says he's got a mate of his moving in there soon.
I asked him if the music might be a problem and he says he doubts it, the bloke used to be a roadie for Iron Maiden. So that's a result.
Probably deaf then, which might be a problem if he likes Iron Maiden and has to play it at an "elevated" level.
Probably deaf then, which might be a problem if he likes Iron Maiden and has to play it at an "elevated" level.
I've got no problem with that. The previous occupant was a big Motley Crue fan. So it's arguably an improvement.
https://i.ibb.co/T4Qfbkx/kit1.jpg (https://ibb.co/1rCgdLt)
https://i.ibb.co/nCQs55v/kit-4.jpg (https://ibb.co/ySgnbb1)
https://i.ibb.co/99sLbwS/kit-2.jpg (https://ibb.co/XZSg7yM)
https://i.ibb.co/Lzz75c2/kit-3.jpg (https://ibb.co/7JJm4Z6)
Is the Krell (and system overall) doing it for you now?:)
Marco.
Yeah I'm pretty happy. I don't think it is quite as good as when I had the Sony XB790QS player up front but it's a long time now since I had that set-up so might be just my memory playing tricks.
The Audiolab/Soncoz is probably more 'truthful' to the recording but I did enjoy the extra sweetness of the Sony.
I will sort out its drawer problem at some point and put it back in.
End of the line for me this is, except for the Tannoy Ardens, whenever they eventually turn up.
Fair enough, mate. What about the Technics players you have (had) - are they still in the equation? In my view, fully operational, one of those would be your best CD front end, and as such I'd be getting Alan (or someone else) working on that to get it fully up to speed.
Also, would you say that the Krell is as good now as it was when you first heard it, before it went tits up? I could be reading things wrongly, but when it came back recently, after it was fixed, your description of its performance came across as a little low-key...
Given that this was your 'big daddy' amp, you'd always hankered after and RAVED about initially, but sadly were forced to do without for a spell because it broke, when it was fixed and back in your system, I expected a similar RAVE review of its talents, with BIG GRINS and celebrations like this :yay::carrot: but it was more like 'well, it's back in and working, so that's good...'
All a bit low-key/somewhat nonplussed. But hey. maybe I've read you wrongly?:)
Marcoi.
Fair enough, mate. What about the Technics players you have (had) - are they still in the equation? In my view, fully operational, one of those would be your best CD front end, and as such I'd be getting Alan (or someone else) working on that to get it fully up to speed.
Also, would you say that the Krell is as good now as it was when you first heard it, before it went tits up? I could be reading things wrongly, but when it came back recently, after it was fixed, your description of its performance came across as a little low-key...
Given that this was your 'big daddy' amp, you'd always hankered after and RAVED about initially, but sadly were forced to do without for a spell because it broke, when it was fixed and back in your system, I expected a similar RAVE review of its talents, with BIG GRINS and celebrations like this :yay::carrot: but it was more like 'well, it's back in and working, so that's good...'
All a bit low-key/somewhat nonplussed. But hey. maybe I've read you wrongly?:)
Marcoi.
That's true but I couldn't really get into it for the first week or so in case it went bad on me again. Couldn't relax and just enjoy it. Feel a bit more confident about it now.
Actually the one I'm using is the one I bought more recently. Maybe they don't both sound exactly the same?
Anyway today is the first time I have listened to anything at 'serious' levels and it does just sound astonishing. I mean everything you could want, pretty much. Big, crisp, clean open, super-detailed, perfect control in the bass with full depth and articulation.
Differences between recordings really stand out. The recording engineers art is just laid out. It's pretty much the same as I had when I had Ollie's pre-amp and Neurochrome 686 in for the day a couple of weeks back. As he said then 'It's the sort of sound that would make 90 percent of audiophiles weak at the knees.'
It's a proper 'high-end' sound system and, maybe more relevant, it is the specific 'sonic signature' that I've always been chasing. So yeah, I'm happy.
Technics SLP1200 is also on the chart to be fixed but the issue with that could be practically anything so not as easy as replacing a disc draw belt. Plus I suspect the Sony XB970 might well be better, at least in the context of the rest of the set-up.
Cool, glad you're happy - and from your description it sounds good! You must be able to generate some nice SPLs, as from memory the JM Labs are reasonably efficient and an easy load...:fingers:
How powerful is the Krell, and is it Class A? Can't remember the specs:)
Marco.
50wpc class A but use plateau biasing so some would say it's not 'proper' class A, although that's to assume that it matters which I don't think it does.
Alan measured it at 75 watts before clipping, only to be expected as Krell routinely underspecced power output so they could claim that their amps doubled their power into each halving of impedance load.
The first set of bias lights come on a when continuous power delivery exceeds 0.75w - it's very rare that these light up so except for momentary peaks less than a watt is required to get good volume level with the JM Labs which have a sensitivity of 90 dB 1w/1 meter
They are not an easy load though as impedance in the bass drops down to 2.4 Ohms so to get proper bass control and performance requires an amplifier with a power supply that's not going to sag, obviously a Krell ideal for this.
It's pretty easy to hear this difference by comparing the power amp of the NAD320BEE to the Krell. High SPL is not an issue with either amp but the NAD, although it delivers 67 watts before clipping, does not produce the same quality of bass as the Krell. My Linn LK100 power amp, by comparison, comes in somewhere in between the two.
When you were selling that range of speakers back in the 1990s do you recall what amplification you usually demonstrated them with?
Naim gear, mate - usually a NAP250 power amp (partnered with NAC52 preamp).
As for the rest, all noted and cool. Just pleased that the amp is working again (long may that continue) and that you're pretty much there now with the sound you want:)
Marco.
https://i.ibb.co/XJGWV2H/topping-e30.jpg (https://ibb.co/JkScCBZ)
Lol - what is it?:)
Marco.
Lol - what is it?:)
Marco.
A DAC?
It's a Topping E30 on top of an Audiolab 6000CDT
So a DAC, then... Thought you had one of those already, lol. Is it any good then (how does it compare to what you have), and what made you get one in the first place?:)
Marco.
I thought I'd get a cheap one, albeit with stellar measured performance, to compare with the - comparatively- expensive one (£140 vs £470). Just out of interest.
They sound identical.
They sound identical.
Get a grip man! You do know that any component needs at least 1,000 hours of burn-in:eek: We look forward to hearing more around Christmas.
Get a grip man! You do know that any component needs at least 1,000 hours of burn-in:eek: We look forward to hearing more around Christmas.
You're right and I have forgotten to take notes to record how the sound changed at the various burn-in 'intervals'....
Don't forget blind testing with yerself...
Ali Tait
12-08-2021, 16:33
That's how you go blind..
Only if he gets a bit too excited by the sound!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Ali Tait
18-08-2021, 12:43
Probably can’t find the keyboard..
Lol.... Aye!
where is macca anyway?
Nursing the blisters on the palms of his right hand:D
No, he's just been busy working.
Marco.
Lawrence001
18-08-2021, 17:12
Funny this thread looks very different from last time I visited.. [emoji23]
Indeed... One of these happened, and afterwards all was better... :grouphug:
;)
Marco.
I have only limited experience in listening to different DACs fed from the same transport. I tried two external DACs, comparing both with each other, and to the internal DAC of the player. I could arrange matters so I could switch between all three instantly as well as spend time with any of the three.
There were clear, repeatable differences in performance, most noticably in the presentation of the sound field: width and depth. However the differences were not such that any one of them could (to my ears) said to be superior to the others; just different. So for the sake of minimising 'box count', I returned to using the internal DAC of the player.
And this is from your resident objectivist - one who eschews knee jerk mantras such that "analogue is better than digital", or "valve amps are better than solid-state amps", yet will openly admit to hearing differences if I do hear them.
Opti-cal
19-08-2021, 08:35
I thought I'd get a cheap one, albeit with stellar measured performance, to compare with the - comparatively- expensive one (£140 vs £470). Just out of interest.
They sound identical.
I have both of these DAC's.
I had to turn my sub's down when using the SGD1 because there was more bass output. With 'normal' speakers in an average setup it could well be that you wouldn't notice.
I've also noticed the genre of music makes quite a difference. The SGD1's soundstage was larger and more expansive with ambient/electronic stuff. Dire Straits, pretty much the same.
That's my 2c.
** Also changing the filters on the SGD1 gave 'some' more bass and changed the sound field a little, changing the filters on the E30 did pretty much nothing. **
I have both of these DAC's.
I had to turn my sub's down when using the SGD1 because there was more bass output. With 'normal' speakers in an average setup it could well be that you wouldn't notice.
I've also noticed the genre of music makes quite a difference. The SGD1's soundstage was larger and more expansive with ambient/electronic stuff. Dire Straits, pretty much the same.
That's my 2c.
** Also changing the filters on the SGD1 gave 'some' more bass and changed the sound field a little, changing the filters on the E30 did pretty much nothing. **
apologies for late reply, work has been a pain and I had to do some socialising.
Only if used directly into a power amp did I find the SGD1 more 'bassy' although that also seemed to vary with which power amp I used. Only with a Krell KSA100 did this arrangement sound better to me though, with all my other power amps I preferred the sound with a pre-amp deployed (although which of my pre-amps sounded better again was power-amp dependant).
I can't perceive any difference in the different filter options on either DAC and with any combination of pre or power amp, or even using the DACs direct into any of the power amps.
Soundstage is not something I pay much attention to though, I tend to listen for accurate tone and for detail. My room is not wide enough to allow for the sort of amazing 3D sound staging I have (very occasionally) heard elsewhere so it's just a compromise I have to live with.
The sound field does seem to exist completely independently from the speakers though, which is the important thing for me. Systems where the sound is obviously coming from the speakers are a fail in my book.
Opti-cal
19-08-2021, 11:59
apologies for late reply, work has been a pain and I had to do some socialising.
The sound field does seem to exist completely independently from the speakers though, which is the important thing for me. Systems where the sound is obviously coming from the speakers are a fail in my book.
Yep, 100% agree, if you're paying attention to the speakers they're not doing their job of presenting the music as well as they should be (for whatever reason).
Granted I have to listen quite intensely, with a fairly bass heavy track to notice the changes in filter 'curves/cuts', but they are there, especially with the subs.
Both great DAC's, especially the E30 for the money. Can see them both living long in my systems. The fact the E30 is smaller than two decks of cards is just another feather in it's cap but as you have eluded to before (and an appreciation I share) orange digits and dials always look great and are easy on the eye.
Stryder5
19-08-2021, 16:22
My Soncoz SGD1 only arrived yesterday so I wait to see what differences I find between it and the E30/LPS. I will be using it with the pre-amp disabled so DAC only as I did with the E30.
I will leave the Soncoz switched on for a couple of days playing in my study before moving it into my main system.
No doubt I’ll add my two peneth!
Gary
It's the summer of 1985. 'Back To The Future' is playing in the cinemas. 'Live Aid' only just happened. I went round to a mate's house to take a look at his new stereo.
He had been to Richer Sounds and bought a Rotel turntable, Rotel tape deck, QED amp and some tiny little Mordaunt Short speakers. Fantastic but no big deal really.
But a week later I went back and he had added a Sony tuner and a Sony equaliser with spectrum analyser. Ah those little bars going up and down in time to the music. So cool. Now I was jealous. But he'd had some rich relative die and leave him some money and I although I had relatives dying all the time none of them were rich and none ever left me jack.
So I had no money at all for a proper hi-fi let alone a flashing lights machine.
And that was a situation that was to continue for a couple of decades. In the meantime I did follow his example and go to Richer Sounds and avail myself of their bin-end bargains, but I didn't even have enough cash to add the tape deck, that took another year. And it was only sixty quid, but at the time I was a poxy student living off the land so it was a wonder I found the money at all.
Anyway I soon learned the rules - that is you don't need an equaliser or the flashing lights and they were in fact bad things that ruin the purity of the analogue signal.
Time passes though and eventually I get to the point where, within reason, I can have anything I want. Main system is sorted but I also have the A/V system to play about with so my thoughts again turned to getting the coveted flashy light machine. This is 2020, surely people are practically giving them away on eBay?
But no. Prices are stupid. £200 for a knackered up Pioneer unit? Dream on. Decent high-spec Kenwood tested and working? That's a monkey to you son.
No chance I was paying those sort of prices so I left it. But it was nagging at me especially with retirement coming up. If I don't get one now I'm never going to get one. So I had another look the other day and I don't know whether it's the pandemic, or Brexit or the phase of the moon but prices were down across the board. So I picked on a tasty looking 1989 Technics SH8058 unit, tested and working.
It was a battle to get it set up as the A/V system is in an alcove against the wall and it's so hard to get at to do connections and so forth. It took me an hour and I sustained a badly bruised knuckle, but here it is gentlemen, set up and working, the resolution of a 36 year dream, a flashing lights machine:
https://i.ibb.co/JFqDRmV/flashy-lights.jpg (https://ibb.co/1JMFf71)
ive got wireless cans :ner: f all else tho lots of stuff in spare room
walpurgis
03-10-2021, 13:07
Eight bander too! :)
Eight bander too! :)
It's not actually hooked up to EQ as the amp has no tape circuit. I just wanted it for the flashing lights. I've already got a 16 band Klark Teknik if I want to EQ. :D
walpurgis
03-10-2021, 13:30
Has it got a mic input? That'll get the lights flashing.
No, but they're flashing fine, I've just spent an hour hypnotised by them.
You need one of these to go with it
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211003/ef7fe99e351336d9390aee74bf71b880.jpg
So I had no money at all for a proper hi-fi let alone a flashing lights machine.
Time passes so my thoughts again turned to getting the coveted flashy light machine. This is 2020, surely people are practically giving them away on eBay?
But no. Prices are stupid. £200 for a knackered up Pioneer unit? Dream on. Decent high-spec Kenwood tested and working? That's a monkey to you son.
No chance I was paying those sort of prices so I left it. But it was nagging at me especially with retirement coming up. If I don't get one now I'm never going to get one. So I had another look the other day and I don't know whether it's the pandemic, or Brexit or the phase of the moon but prices were down across the board. So I picked on a tasty looking 1989 Technics SH8058 unit, tested and working.
It was a battle to get it set up as the A/V system is in an alcove against the wall and it's so hard to get at to do connections and so forth. It took me an hour and I sustained a badly bruised knuckle, but here it is gentlemen, set up and working, the resolution of a 36 year dream, a flashing lights machine:
https://i.ibb.co/JFqDRmV/flashy-lights.jpg (https://ibb.co/1JMFf71)
Flashing light bargraph meters, like VU meters serve no purpose at all and just distract from the music. You spend your time looking at them dance up and down, and realise you are not really listening to the music at all.
One of those sound-activated 'dancing flowers' that were all the rage twenty years ago would be better. :D
It's on the telly system Barry not my main system. And it's not in line of sight when you're looking at the screen. All the equipment is sat way off to the left hand side.
It serves the purpose of looking super-cool. :D
Never had a graphic equaliser in a main system, but did have a Panasonic mini system with one at some point. And of course in 1986 I had one in my Renault 5, complete with speakers from a Sharp midi system on the rear parcel shelf!
Yeah, that’s cool Martin!
Pigmy Pony
03-10-2021, 18:14
It's the summer of 1985. 'Back To The Future' is playing in the cinemas. 'Live Aid' only just happened. I went round to a mate's house to take a look at his new stereo.
He had been to Richer Sounds and bought a Rotel turntable, Rotel tape deck, QED amp and some tiny little Mordaunt Short speakers. Fantastic but no big deal really.
But a week later I went back and he had added a Sony tuner and a Sony equaliser with spectrum analyser. Ah those little bars going up and down in time to the music. So cool. Now I was jealous. But he'd had some rich relative die and leave him some money and I although I had relatives dying all the time none of them were rich and none ever left me jack.
So I had no money at all for a proper hi-fi let alone a flashing lights machine.
And that was a situation that was to continue for a couple of decades. In the meantime I did follow his example and go to Richer Sounds and avail myself of their bin-end bargains, but I didn't even have enough cash to add the tape deck, that took another year. And it was only sixty quid, but at the time I was a poxy student living off the land so it was a wonder I found the money at all.
Anyway I soon learned the rules - that is you don't need an equaliser or the flashing lights and they were in fact bad things that ruin the purity of the analogue signal.
Time passes though and eventually I get to the point where, within reason, I can have anything I want. Main system is sorted but I also have the A/V system to play about with so my thoughts again turned to getting the coveted flashy light machine. This is 2020, surely people are practically giving them away on eBay?
But no. Prices are stupid. £200 for a knackered up Pioneer unit? Dream on. Decent high-spec Kenwood tested and working? That's a monkey to you son.
No chance I was paying those sort of prices so I left it. But it was nagging at me especially with retirement coming up. If I don't get one now I'm never going to get one. So I had another look the other day and I don't know whether it's the pandemic, or Brexit or the phase of the moon but prices were down across the board. So I picked on a tasty looking 1989 Technics SH8058 unit, tested and working.
It was a battle to get it set up as the A/V system is in an alcove against the wall and it's so hard to get at to do connections and so forth. It took me an hour and I sustained a badly bruised knuckle, but here it is gentlemen, set up and working, the resolution of a 36 year dream, a flashing lights machine:
https://i.ibb.co/JFqDRmV/flashy-lights.jpg (https://ibb.co/1JMFf71)
Great introduction Martin, welcome to AoS. Tell us a bit about your music tastes.
Never had a graphic equaliser in a main system, but did have a Panasonic mini system with one at some point. And of course in 1986 I had one in my Renault 5, complete with speakers from a Sharp midi system on the rear parcel shelf!
Yeah, that’s cool Martin!
I knew you'd get it Alex.
Great introduction Martin, welcome to AoS. Tell us a bit about your music tastes.
:lol:
Pigmy Pony
04-10-2021, 06:09
I have for a while wondered whether a perceived hardening or 'ringing' at a certain part of the frequency range might not be the fault of the speakers (Which use full-range drivers), but rather my tinnitus combining with a certain frequency to produce this 'artefact'.
And that maybe being able to reduce the level of a certain frequency might help (I only suffer this at higher listening levels). So it will be interesting to hear how you get on with your new acquisition SQ wise, which does look super cool btw :)
I can borrow you an eq unit if you want to experiment, I've got a few of them.
Ali Tait
04-10-2021, 09:13
I have for a while wondered whether a perceived hardening or 'ringing' at a certain part of the frequency range might not be the fault of the speakers (Which use full-range drivers), but rather my tinnitus combining with a certain frequency to produce this 'artefact'.
And that maybe being able to reduce the level of a certain frequency might help (I only suffer this at higher listening levels). So it will be interesting to hear how you get on with your new acquisition SQ wise, which does look super cool btw :)
Yes this is common with wide banders, there is often a peak around 5k or so.
Pigmy Pony
04-10-2021, 18:46
Yes this is common with wide banders, there is often a peak around 5k or so.
Strangely, measurements (as reported in one review for my Zu Omen Def speakers) suggests a recession at about 4K. My thoughts are that perhaps a peak further up the range may be acting with my tinnitus to create a "harmonic". Although this kind of thing is beyond my ken.
In any case, a play about with an equaliser might be interesting.
Pigmy Pony
04-10-2021, 18:49
I can borrow you an eq unit if you want to experiment, I've got a few of them.
Cheers Martin, I might take you up on that, I need to get your RCM back to you anyway :)
Been after one of those CD tower things for ages, you don't seem to be able to buy them new anymore and I ran out of existing CD storage some months back.
Been keeping an eye out on the chariddy shops and saw this one today. can't fault it for three squid:
https://i.ibb.co/56XKswW/tower.jpg (https://ibb.co/rmKd5NG)
brian2957
24-11-2021, 15:30
I got one very similar last week from a charity shop. Lady wanted £2.50 and being the tight Scotsman that I am, I gave her a fiver :D
I did think about giving a fiver for it but I didn't get where I am today by giving fivers for things.
Pigmy Pony
24-11-2021, 15:47
Been after one of those CD tower things for ages, you don't seem to be able to buy them new anymore and I ran out of existing CD storage some months back.
Been keeping an eye out on the chariddy shops and saw this one today. can't fault it for three squid:
https://i.ibb.co/56XKswW/tower.jpg (https://ibb.co/rmKd5NG)
Novel way to warm up your amp
It would be if the fire worked but it packed in years ago. It's almost as old as me.
Pigmy Pony
24-11-2021, 19:00
Don't suppose you need a fire with those Krells knocking about :)
yeah I plan to slim down the Krell collection next spring. Although maybe that would be like trying to sell a convertible in the autumn?
Pigmy Pony
24-11-2021, 20:15
yeah I plan to slim down the Krell collection next spring. Although maybe that would be like trying to sell a convertible in the autumn?
Exactly like that. Worth keeping one Krell though, it'll sound way better than a two bar electric fire. I know because we had one when I was a kid and it sounded shit. It used to buzz like buggery, probably the transformer. And when we brought it out each autumn, it smelled funny at first. Probably dead insects inside.
Bought myself a christmas prezzie:
https://i.ibb.co/hsrrYnk/toole.jpg (https://ibb.co/kKzzmrp)
Bought myself a christmas prezzie:
https://i.ibb.co/hsrrYnk/toole.jpg (https://ibb.co/kKzzmrp)
Another thrill packed page turner from Floyd E. Toole I see :eyebrows:
(at first glance I thought it said it was a fecal press book)
I skipped to the end and it turns out the electrostatic did it.
I "treated" my room a few years ago and it really is as good as any component upgrade. Plus any improvements you make in the hardware are enhanced as a result.
I skipped to the end and it turns out the electrostatic did it.
Oi - that's not right, the electrostatic was 'framed'. :D
Finally got round to ordering the adhesive and it arrived today so have put some panels up on the door:
https://i.ibb.co/cvDNsM5/room-tr.jpg (https://ibb.co/pPJ3kGD)
I was getting a little bit of bounce off of this corner of the room which is directly to the left of the listening position. Not a big problem but one of those things that once you are aware it is there you start listening for it, and it's distracting. Hopefully this should kill it or at least reduce it.
No there's another door after that one.
Oi - that's not right, the electrostatic was 'framed'. :D
:lol:
Is that the front door?
Shut that door.
https://lastfm.freetls.fastly.net/i/u/770x0/ae6ea58e4f524bf8826839062f379187.jpg#ae6ea58e4f524 bf8826839062f379187
Been after a new rack for a while, was fed up with having the Krell sat on the floor as just too wide to go in my existing stand.
it takes up some floor space which is not that big a deal, but it's on the route from kitchen to living room and I could visualise myself one day walking in with a beverage, stumbling, and dumping the lot into the top of the amp.
Had a look everywhere on the internet, spent hours on it, no joy. I wanted something that would fit the Krell, place the transport and pre-amp at around chest height, not look awful and not cost a fortune.
Yesterday went out a usual to get a bap for dinner. Next to the sandwich shop, which is in a row of industrial units, is a place called 'Stoke Sales.' No idea what they sell as there's no indication on the outside, no window, and it's always closed.
Anyway yesterday it was open and having a closing down sale so I took a peek inside and it turns out that it's a small furniture showroom. I spied a unit that looked to be perfect for what I wanted and it was on offer at thirty quid. So bought it on the spot and they delivered it about an hour later.
Not going to be to everybody's taste, I know, feel free to say so. But it does do all the things I wanted and at thirty quid delivered it was practically free:
https://i.ibb.co/S6Rwj6b/rackf.jpg (https://ibb.co/Jc5j1cV)
https://i.ibb.co/MPGn02C/racks.jpg (https://ibb.co/2csq4nk)
The two draw units have a smooth action and are ideal for storing my CD overflow.
Looks ideal for your needs Martin.
yeah, a good looking bit of funiture as well as doing the job.
Looks ideal for your needs Martin.
Not having to bend down to put a CD in is a big plus for me. Not that I have any physical trouble doing that (edit: yet) but ease of use issues like that bug me.
You were lucky to find a unit that the Krell fitted into so well, although my Luxman fitted into the old charm unit I got width wise (just) I had to make some minor adjustments at the back :lol:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51904960461_fe1037a1ca_o.jpg
You were lucky to find a unit that the Krell fitted into so well]
I know. I've no idea what it was intended for in civilian use but that's probably why they couldn't flog it.
The trouble with the Krell is that it's just slightly wider than standard, just enough so it won't fit in a dedicated hi-fi rack by about 5mm on each side.
Confess I did look for something old I could butcher to purpose like you did but couldn't find a damn thing, it was all second-hand Ikea and DFS.
https://i.ibb.co/S6Rwj6b/rackf.jpg (https://ibb.co/Jc5j1cV)
https://i.ibb.co/MPGn02C/racks.jpg (https://ibb.co/2csq4nk)
The two draw units have a smooth action and are ideal for storing my CD overflow.
Looks perfect: just tidy up the cabling and you're a candidate for Ideal Homes. Well done Martin! :)
I know. I've no idea what it was intended for in civilian use but that's probably why they couldn't flog it.
The trouble with the Krell is that it's just slightly wider than standard, just enough so it won't fit in a dedicated hi-fi rack by about 5mm on each side.
Confess I did look for something old I could butcher to purpose like you did but couldn't find a damn thing, it was all second-hand Ikea and DFS.
meant to say my new car has a krell sound system in it, which is pretty good. so ive kinda joined the krell club.lol
Just keep an eye out for monsters from the Id.
walpurgis
26-02-2022, 18:58
Just keep an eye out for monsters from the Id.
There's a lot of them about :).
I lost my Id when my elastic snapped:stalks:
You can get a replacement one on Amazon but I think they're from China.
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