View Full Version : 'Analog Dinosaur' succumbs to the joys of FBA : enter Raspberry Pi 2/IQ-Audio DAC+!!
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Tim will giggle at this, as for YEARS I've resisted the temptation of adding a music-streaming source to my system, mainly because of all those I'd heard (and there have been many to date, at varying price levels), I'd yet to hear a solution good enough that I could live with, particularly in terms of ease of use, and that could compete on sonic terms with my Sony CDP/DAC, and indeed my turntable.
All that changed recently, when two friends (Ian Walker and Duncan, A.K.A Tubehunter) visited Marco Towers, bringing with them a Raspberry Pi 2 (Model B), a USB hard-drive, filled with various choons, and the wherewithal to connect it all up and demonstrate it to me in my system.
Cutting to the chase, I was gob-smacked at what I heard, as this is the first time that I've listened to a streaming system that didn't sound thin, flat, tonally grey and very 'digital', the complete antithesis of the weighty and purposeful, musically addictive and rich, 'analogue-like' sound, delivered by my Sony CDP and DAC.
What I was hearing this time, from FBA (with the Pi in the equation), had all the latter qualities, together with beautiful filigree detailing and huge globules of musical information, all contributing to deliver thrilling amounts of insight and 'fun factor', with all recordings played - and most importantly, minus any 'digital glare': an effect which to my ears, up until now (to varying degrees), has plagued every digital replay system I've heard, filed-based or otherwise.
This had none of that. What I was hearing was truly 'analogue-sounding digital' (in the right way), with added 'grin-factor' - and hugely entertaining it was, too!!! :D
However, that *only* happened when we took the preamp out of the equation and listened to the Pi (fitted with an IQaudio Pi-DAC+), directly into my Copper amp, or the equally stunning sounding Quad 405s Duncan had modified into monoblocks (more on those later). With the Pi used into my Croft preamp, the sound was still very good indeed, and perfectly acceptable, but the real magic only happened when the Pi was used directly, being controlled via Volumio, on my Macbook Pro.
Most folk I've read with a Pi seem to use it with a HiFi Berry Digi+, and connect it to a separate external DAC, thus necessitating the use of an optical or coaxial digital cable, and the subsequent (and unavoidable) jitter such cables introduce, thus diluting the purity of the audio signal. Well, having heard just how mind-blowingly good the Burr-Brown 32-bit IQ Audio DAC is (for details, see here: http://iqaudio.com/?page_id=454), used internally and direct, I can honestly say there's most likely little point in using a 'fancier' and more expensive external DAC, as this little thing delivers utterly KILLER sound, at sweetie-money prices... £32 to be precise!! :eek:
Ian Walker considers that it outperforms the DAC inside his Rega Isis, which is, what, an £8k CDP? That gives you an idea of the quality of the cheap-as-chips IQ-Audio DAC, and level of sonic performance obtained, when used in conjunction with a Raspberry Pi...............!
Now I've taken my heavily-modified Sony DAC (acting as my current benchmark) to many meets and bake-offs over the years, one of which was the most memorable, was putting it up against the DAC inside Martin T's superb and rather expensive Ayre CDP, and it certainly didn't disgrace itself, in fact outperforming it in some areas, notably bass authority, rhythm and timing and overall musicality, to the ears of the assembled listeners, including Martin himself and MikeMusic, who was also present.
The Sony has also been demonstrated at Scalford, as part of a much praised AoS system, and numerous other places where discerning ears have revelled in its highly addictive music-making abilities. Well, I can tell you that the Pi/IQ Audio DAC combo, streaming hi-res 24-bit files, connected directly to my Copper amp, and controlled on my laptop via Volumio, produces a sound that is well up there with the Sony and in some areas betters it (namely ultimate musical insight into recordings, reduction in perceived 'noisefloor', and all-out detail retrieval), most likely down to the higher resolution of the files streamed, compared to what's available in that respect from Red Book CD.
However, I also suspect that this particular DAC chip succeeds to eke out just that bit more musical information from recordings than the TDA1541s in the Sony, but most importantly, it does so without sacrificing hardly any of the Sony's muscular authority - and it is *that* last factor that has succeeded to turn my head and finally embrace the joys of FBA! Make no mistake: by ANY sonic standards, the Pi/IQ-Audio DAC is a killer combo, outperforming some DACs costing many thousands of pounds, and at a combined cost of around £80, offers just simply bonkers SPPV!! :mental:
This is genuine 'giant-killing' performance, no question about it, and probably one of the most exciting discoveries I've ever made in audio. The Pi/IQ-Audio combination is definitely going to worry some high-end companies producing expensive music streaming devices, as here you have all of their performance (and more), without the unnecessary frippery and huge price tag!!
As such, I cannot recommend the above combo highly enough, to the extent that it would be simply ludicrous now to recommend the use of any modern CDP, at virtually any price, as properly partnered and set-up, the Pi/IQ Audio DAC combo, IMO, is likely to sonically outperform it. The respective manufacturers have got it *so* right with the designs of both items, by most importantly keeping the signal path as short as possible and using genuine bit-perfect transfer of data. It is so good that I would confidently put it up against any so-called 'high-end' streaming source, costing many thousands of pounds.
In that respect, it will be interesting to hear what the dedicated linear power supply, which Duncan has built, adds to the party. Full details of that to come... However, for the meantime, I'll be sitting back enjoying going through and listening to the 2TB worth of files I've just obtained from a friend's CD collection, and revelling in how shockingly believable and lifelike the music sounds...
Honestly, folks, try using the Pi without an off-board DAC and digital cable, or a preamp, and instead, direct with neither (into a quality power amp), with a built-in DAC from IQ Audio. Quite simply, you need none of the former to build a high-quality streaming device, capable of top-notch audio performance.
My advice? Well, what are you waiting for?? Just go out and BUY a Pi - it's even tastier than the famous porky ones from Melton Mowbray! :trust:
For reference, the following streaming set-up now in situ, chez-Marco is:
1 x Raspberry Pi 2 (Model B) in 'Ninja' case, with Raspberry switch-mode PSU.
1 x IQAudio Pi-DAC+.
1 x Maplins 8G Class 4 SD card.
1 x NAS (shuttle) box with 2TB of music, contained on two hard-drives.
15m of Maplins Cat-5e RJ45 patch cable (connecting NAS box/hard-drives and router, to Pi).
1 x pair of 0.5m Klotz MC5000 interconnect cables, fitted with MS Audio RCA plugs (to connect IQ-Audio DAC directly to Copper valve power amp).
Volumio operational interface (with Kernel parameters set at 'Buscia'), used with a Macbook Pro.
Total cost (excluding laptop and router): less than £350......... :eek:
Some pics....
NAS (shuttle) box (containing 2TB of choons, many of which are high-res 24-bit):
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/7nz2a0.jpg
Raspberry Pi (with IQ-Audio DAC inside):
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/x6LKRY.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/nVdDrl.jpg
Volumio (with Macbook Pro):
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/YqLKIm.jpg
Marco.
The Black Adder
20-03-2015, 15:11
I've heard of this before, seems to be getting quite a cult status. I did some stuff for the PI with the BBC Micro a while ago.
How can this iddy liccul thing do such a good job?... Witchcraft my friend, witchcraft. ..lol
I looked at these and although fancied it felt it was beyond me to set it up being a dunce. shame as they get good rep and are cheap. think it was our pink friend that gave me some info but think its past me building it and worse setting it up
great your converted even if its just a bit:eyebrows:
I've heard of this before, seems to be getting quite a cult status. I did some stuff for the PI with the BBC Micro a while ago.
How can this iddy liccul thing do such a good job?... Witchcraft my friend, witchcraft. ..lol
I know, mate. It's been a veritable 'amazing new discovery' for me.... Btw, you have a PM :)
Marco.
I looked at these and although fancied it felt it was beyond me to set it up being a dunce.
It's a piece of piss, Grant - or at least it certainly seemed that way, watching Duncan set it up for me! ;)
Marco.
sounds interesting but as an even bigger dinosaur than you all I can say is 'first dibs on yer Sony' ;)
The Black Adder
20-03-2015, 15:30
I don't quite see what input interface board fits on top of the dac board... or is it really that simple? I take it that the input board has SD/USB/COAX input?
It's a piece of piss, Grant - or at least it certainly seemed that way, watching Duncan set it up for me! ;)
Marco.
its easy when someo!e knows what their doing:lol: thought you might have liked my pun?
The Black Adder
20-03-2015, 15:32
I'm actually thinking of moving away from the external dac to be honest... I have a lovely dac but I'd rather have something inside a player seeing as file (HD) audio isn't getting much better in terms to gapless.
What do you need to get a full dac up and running with either a HD or a transport, Marco?
jollyfix
20-03-2015, 15:47
All this sounds great, but i am a numpty dinosaur. I need someone to spell it out plain and simple, Streaming????? Does that mean i need to upload my CDs to my laptop, what happens next? cable from laptop to pi thing then to amp? will i be using my laptop instead of CD player? The problem i have always had with computers compared with HIFI is that i have had so many computers die, or back up stuff get lost etc. even with my mrs Mac, which needs to upgrade every few years otherwise it wont work etc, or have to spend a load of dosh on a new one.
I have never had any problems with HIFI kit.
I would love to go down shed loads of music from a tiny box type of thing as it would be ideal for my tiny London flat, just no room here for CD storage there.
I don't quite see what input interface board fits on top of the dac board... or is it really that simple? I take it that the input board has SD/USB/COAX input?
The Pi has various USB inputs, see here: http://www.rapidonline.com/electronic-components/raspberry-pi-2-model-b-quad-core-1gb-ram-73-6500?gclid=CLfqtICit8QCFYgKwwodQgIA9w
You simply connect your router and NAS box, containing your hard-drives (which works much better and quicker than any USB drive) to the Pi, via some cat5e cable. The Pi is fitted internally with the (separate) IQ-Audio Dac, itself having two phono outputs, which you can either connect to a preamp, or in my case, directly to my power amp (thus keeping the signal path as short and as pure as possible). The SD card fits into the Pi.
If you want coaxial or optical connections, and wish be able to connect an off-board DAC, then you need the HiFi Berry+ https://www.hifiberry.com/dacplus
However, for me, that isn't as good a solution. The IQ-Audio DAC is also reputed to sound better, although I haven't done the comparison. It would certainly take something rather special to beat it!
Marco.
its easy when someo!e knows what their doing:lol: thought you might have liked my pun?
Oh don't worry, I didn't miss that one! :eyebrows:
Marco.
sounds interesting but as an even bigger dinosaur than you all I can say is 'first dibs on yer Sony' ;)
Lol - that's going nowhere, as I've got about 2500 CDs I still want to play.
No-way am I ripping all of those, as a) I can't be arsed, plus I've got the space to keep them in a dedicated room, b) I like using and collecting physical music media, and c) I wish to retain the option of directly comparing playback of a CD, versus streaming of the same music.
There is also the fact that the Sony still has a certain way of presenting music all of its own :)
Marco.
Be looking into this myself Grant, need some way to stream my files in the wee bedroom setup without spending a lot of moolah.
This seems a good way to do it.
Need it to do video as well...so some research is needed.
Help you out once I'm up to speed. :)
I looked at these and although fancied it felt it was beyond me to set it up being a dunce. shame as they get good rep and are cheap. think it was our pink friend that gave me some info but think its past me building it and worse setting it up
great your converted even if its just a bit:eyebrows:
Tim will giggle at this . . .
Ha ha, yup but I'm not going to gloat and say 'told yer so' as like anything it has to be done right to satisfy those with a refined musical palette, but when you do get it right, it can and often does astonish the doubters. If you go right back to some of my first posts on AoS, I was a doubter too, but I like discovery and thought that all the folk who keep saying its good can't all be wrong - so I went out and tried it myself, then spent ages testing and learning. It's a lot easier these days and the performance keeps on marching forward, whilst the relative costs keep going down.
The big thing though as you have discovered and what the Pi is now allowing even amateurs to achieve, is quite staggering musical performance compared to the very modest financial outlay, which for me was a significant factor as I like to spend my money on music, not gear.
Its a shame more people aren't open minded enough to give file based audio a go (and properly, not just loading foobar2000 or JRiver onto a laptop and hooking it up to an amplifier :nono:) and it really isn't that hard these days and there are plenty of people around to help out now.
http://iconbug.com/download/size/128/icon/6062/star-wars-vader-2/ . . . welcome to the dark side.
The Black Adder
20-03-2015, 16:56
Yup.. your Sony is a monster and a beautiful bit of kit. Rare as hens knackers and.... better IMO than current top..TOP end DAC's. I can imagine the Sony does some things better than the PI.
Hi Tim,
Ha ha, yup but I'm not going to gloat and say 'told yer so' as like anything it has to be done right to satisfy those with a refined musical palette, but when you do get it right, it can and often does astonish the doubters.
For sure, although I've always rated the sonic potential of FBA (File-Based Audio, for those who aren't familiar with the term), but up until now have never heard it so convincingly delivered, and at stupidly low cost!
If you go right back to some of my first posts on AoS, I was a doubter too, but I like discovery and thought that all the folk who keep saying its good can't all be wrong - so I went out and tried it myself, then spent ages testing and learning. It's a lot easier these days and the performance keeps on marching forward, whilst the relative costs keep going down.
That's true. However, I was never really a doubter, always being pretty convinced by its potential advantages.
I just had no real motivation to look into FBA very deeply. Vinyl is still very much my primary music source, and always will be (as my T/T is still my best sounding piece of kit), plus I have a very capable CDP and DAC, so I've never needed to bother with FBA, from the point of view of achieving a sonic upgrade. Convenience was also never a factor, or indeed a desire to be up-to-date or 'trendy'.
Furthermore, for all the technical sonic benefits of streaming digital music, via a computer and DAC, rather than accessing it via the physical interface of a CD and CD player, on paper, in my experience those benefits never materialised into real-world listening conditions. The Sony, playing CDs, always did it better. Plus, up until now it's always been a bit of a ball-ache getting into FBA, especially for someone like me with ZERO interest in computers!
One of the benefits of the Pi, once it's all set-up, is that there is next to no 'techy' stuff to worry about or any intrusive computer presence. I already had a router and a laptop, so the only 'computer addition' in my listening room is the tiny little Pi unit itself, which sits unobtrusively on top of my Sony DAC.
I find the Volumio control interface intuitive and a doddle to use, especially as I don't use 'fancy' mobile phones, with tiny screens and buttons, and instead have a lovely, super-fast MacBook Pro and 15" Retina screen with which to access and control it, as I lie back and chill out on the sofa - bliss! :)
The big thing though as you have discovered and what the Pi is now allowing even amateurs to achieve, is quite staggering musical performance compared to the very modest financial outlay, which for me was a significant factor as I like to spend my money on music, not gear.
Same here - at least these days it is. I now spend much more money on music than hi-fi, and that's the way it will stay. The SPPV of the Pi/IQ-Audio DAC combo is indeed staggering, and so I intend to promote it as vigorously and successfully as I have the modded Technics T/T or vintage Tannoy DCs, as more enthusiasts *need* to know just how good this thing is for beer-token money...
Its a shame more people aren't open minded enough to give file based audio a go (and properly, not just loading foobar2000 or JRiver onto a laptop and hooking it up to an amplifier :nono:) and it really isn't that hard these days and there are plenty of people around to help out now.
Indeed, and the latter sounds pants in comparison to what I've got going on here now.
The problem is going to be convincing the 'key-jangler brigade', who judge how good something is by its price tag and/or 'exclusivity', or looks. I doubt we'll ever convince folk like that not to drop £1000s on something 'posh', from the likes of Linn or some other company with a 'high-end profile', thinking that they'll be guaranteed the best sound.
However, for those on AoS who seek maximum SPPV from their systems, and love music more than collecting shiny boxes, the Pi/IQ-Audio combo will be a Godsend and very easy and cost-effective way of achieving high-quality music streaming.
:exactly:
Marco.
Yup.. your Sony is a monster and a beautiful bit of kit. Rare as hens knackers and.... better IMO than current top..TOP end DAC's. I can imagine the Sony does some things better than the PI.
It does, but it's also the case the other way round, which is why it's nice to have both! ;)
Marco.
Covenant
20-03-2015, 19:49
Marco, it's nice to see that you have an open mind about streaming. As a vinyl addict it would be easy for you to ignore digital developments. How does the Pi compare to that NVA statement thingy you had a while back?
Hi Jerry,
As a music lover, first and foremost, it would not only be rather remiss of me, but completely ridiculous to ignore the benefits of using a device that both sounds superb and gives me access to near-limitless amounts of music, not to mention is as cheap-as-chips! ;)
Much as I rate the sound of some NVA equipment, and have reported such on AoS, the Pi/IQ-Audio combo is in a different league, sonically, from the TFS - and I suspect will become even better with the addition of a high-quality linear PSU.
Marco.
Ali Tait
20-03-2015, 20:21
where can we buy this stuff for the best price?
where can we buy this stuff for the best price?
you can get it on amazon ....I was watching some earlier in my wish list. they do various packages....ebay as well but a lot are the same sellers
Hi Ali,
I got my Pi with 'Ninja' Pibow case and PSU, from here:http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi-2
I believe that the DAC is available direct from IQ-Audio, through Gordon there, or here: www.tindie.com/products/IQaudIO/iqaudiocom-pi-dac-audio-card-with-headphone-support-for-the-raspberry-pi-b/?pt=ac_prod_search
All the rest you can get from Maplins, then simply download Volumio on your computer and set it all up - job's a good 'un! :)
Marco.
Could we have a straight forward description of how to put one of these things together? I'm currently using a squeezebox SB3 butt finding it a little unsatisfying. Given the price that SB3s go for on EBay, I could swap over for virtually no outlay.
The SB3 accesses a little Linux PC attached to the router which runs the Slimserver software that it needs, and has a 400gb hard drive attached. Presumably the Pi would be able to access the same library, but does it need to have any software running elsewhere on the network? If so, could an Android tablet handle the task?
I'm intrigued, but ignorant!
Ali Tait
20-03-2015, 21:03
Hi Ali,
I got my Pi with 'Ninja' Pibow case and PSU, from here:http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi-2
I believe that the DAC is available direct from IQ-Audio, although I bought mine from Ian.
All the rest you can get from Maplins, then simply download Volumio on your computer and set it all up - job's a good 'un! :)
Marco.
Cheers mate, only would need the PI bits, everything else I already have, given I run a TFS. Be interesting to see if it would better the TFS with Nick's prototype dac. Would have to be good to do so..
The Black Adder
20-03-2015, 21:22
Could we have a straight forward description of how to put one of these things together? I'm currently using a squeezebox SB3 butt finding it a little unsatisfying. Given the price that SB3s go for on EBay, I could swap over for virtually no outlay.
The SB3 accesses a little Linux PC attached to the router which runs the Slimserver software that it needs, and has a 400gb hard drive attached. Presumably the Pi would be able to access the same library, but does it need to have any software running elsewhere on the network? If so, could an Android tablet handle the task?
I'm intrigued, but ignorant!
The DAC+
https://vimeo.com/104410779
Then plug your HD in (or whatever), a HDMI Touch screen, plug it in to your pre (or amp) and your rolling... (as far as I can see but might be wrong so awaiting correction.)
Yes, Jo, that's correct, but the HiFi Berry is a different DAC, and arguably not as good as the IQ-Audio... Also, you don't need the facility on the HiFi Berry of connecting up an off-board DAC, if you're going to use the IQ one directly, fitted to the Pi, directly again into a power amp, minus a preamp, as I'm doing.
The IQ-Audio Pi-DAC+ outputs 2V, the same as most CDPs, so there's no need, electrically, for a preamp - and interestingly, for me for the FIRST time ever, no need for one SONICALLY, either! Just use the Volumio interface, on your phone, tablet or laptop, and you're away! :)
Sensitive power amps, however, are best for optimal results (in order to get the same drive and 'balls' in the sound, as provided by a good active preamp).
Marco.
Hi Shane,
Could we have a straight forward description of how to put one of these things together? I'm currently using a squeezebox SB3 butt finding it a little unsatisfying. Given the price that SB3s go for on EBay, I could swap over for virtually no outlay.
The SB3 accesses a little Linux PC attached to the router which runs the Slimserver software that it needs, and has a 400gb hard drive attached. Presumably the Pi would be able to access the same library, but does it need to have any software running elsewhere on the network? If so, could an Android tablet handle the task?
I'm intrigued, but ignorant!
I'll ask Duncan to contribute and outline the process in layman's terms.
Meanwhile, there are two very good threads on the subject. One on Wigwam: http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?104958-IQaudIO-Pi-DAC-24-192-DAC-for-Raspberry-Pi and one on TAS, although Martin T and others have gone the HiFi Berry route: http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/501/raspberry-based-audio-streamer-project
Have a read and see if they help :)
Marco.
It might also be worth mentioning for those who have a fear of Linux (but with Volumio there is nothing to fear), that Microsoft have committed to building a version of Windows 10, which will run on the Raspberry Pi 2 and it'll be free.
https://dev.windows.com/en-us/featured/raspberrypi2support
http://www.engadget.com/2015/02/02/windows-10-is-coming-to-the-raspberry-pi-2/
Could we have a straight forward description of how to put one of these things together? I'm currently using a squeezebox SB3 butt finding it a little unsatisfying. Given the price that SB3s go for on EBay, I could swap over for virtually no outlay.
The SB3 accesses a little Linux PC attached to the router which runs the Slimserver software that it needs, and has a 400gb hard drive attached. Presumably the Pi would be able to access the same library, but does it need to have any software running elsewhere on the network? If so, could an Android tablet handle the task?
I'm intrigued, but ignorant!
There is quite an extensive thread about the Raspberry as a streamer / DAC at theaudiostandard (http://theaudiostandard.net/thread/501/raspberry-based-audio-streamer-project). The software on the Raspberry is Volumio (https://volumio.org) which is free. I use a DAC from audiophonics.fr (http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/kits-modules-diy-dac/audiophonics-i-sabre-dac-es9023-raspberry-pi-a-b-i2s-p-9341.html). I see now that it is a newer version than the one I have and it seems to be compatible with the B+ and newer Pi2 Raspberry models.
It is interfaced via I2S to the Raspi. Basically, you just stick it on the Raspbi.
One interesting DAC I would like to try one day is this one from Torsten Tjekel (http://www.tjaekel.com/T-DAC/overview.html) which can stacked as a "double mono" configuration. It can be bought here (http://www.gravitech.us/dusoulsoqufo.html)
The Raspi + DAC + Volumio kit conveniently replaces a streamer an Airport express and a DAC for peanuts. It is quite an eye (ear) opener.
Hope this helps
Greets
Ru
PS The Raspberry can be interfaced to your router either with an Ethernet cable or with a WIFI dongle like this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/150M-USB-WiFi-Wireless-LAN-Adapter-w-Antenna-Raspberry-Pi-ralink-rt5370-MAUS-/111538628424) I cannot hear any difference between the two methods and the WIFI is rock solid. Haven't had a single drop out.
Stratmangler
20-03-2015, 22:22
Could we have a straight forward description of how to put one of these things together? I'm currently using a squeezebox SB3 butt finding it a little unsatisfying. Given the price that SB3s go for on EBay, I could swap over for virtually no outlay.
The SB3 accesses a little Linux PC attached to the router which runs the Slimserver software that it needs, and has a 400gb hard drive attached. Presumably the Pi would be able to access the same library, but does it need to have any software running elsewhere on the network? If so, could an Android tablet handle the task?
I'm intrigued, but ignorant!
From what I can ascertain a RasPi player will quite happily emulate a Squeezebox if you load it up with PiCorePlayer.
How successful a marriage it is with LMS possibly lies with the level of LMS you're using, although with your mention of S3 I suspect you may be using a version of pre LMS server.
What's all this techy-talk and 'fear of using Linux' about, chaps? :scratch:
I've not had to bother with any of that bollox, since I'm solely using the Pi as method of streaming music files from two hard-drives, contained in a NAS box. Let's try and keep it 'simple stupid', for non-techy folks, with an aversion to using computers, trying to get into FBA. It's all starting to sound way more complicated than it actually is, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it! :nono:
Marco.
Its sure as hell scared me....Linux; I have never dared use as I know nothing....NOTHING:ner:
as for NAS drives? nope not got that either
I know nowt about Linux either - less than nowt, in fact, but I didn't need to know anything about it, in order to use the Pi!
As for NAS drives, what I've got, as far as I know, is just a big square aluminium box with two hard-drives in it, which lights up and makes a whirring noise (due to the cooling fans inside), that is connected to my router, and from there onto the Pi, via cat5e cable. There's nothing complicated about it.
Marco.
Canetoad
21-03-2015, 02:49
where can we buy this stuff for the best price?
Ali, you can even buy the RPi from Farnell and RS Components. They should be pretty cheap too. I got mine from RS Australia and they delivered it free. :)
Make sure you get the Raspberry Pi 2 B as this is the latest and most powerful version, which you'll eventually be able to try with Windows 10 when it's released for the RPi.
I've used mine with the Hifiberry DAC+ and it doesn't sound as good as the Digi+ s/pdif board into a Caiman II in my system. I might have to try this DAC as it seems to be the business.
The Black Adder
21-03-2015, 05:20
I must admit, this is sparking an interest in me... The Durio dual mono version looks superb too although they seem to not be up to date which is a shame as it doesn't say that it's compatible with the latest Pi. Probably is but still...
lol.. I too don't even want to touch Linux... those days are over for me.
Welcome to a brave new world Marco so glad you embraced the dark side
One of the best things about this approach is the ablity to stream sites like Spotify with CD like quality I am listening to more music than ever using a similar approach
The Black Adder
21-03-2015, 07:22
What's the Volumio software like to use, Marco?...
I've not got a music server as yet, need to look in to that. Is using a HD too slow?.. or just not as instant.
Also, does it do gapless playback?.... (please say yes... please say yes)... heheh!
Hi Jerry,
As a music lover, first and foremost, it would not only be rather remiss of me, but completely ridiculous to ignore the benefits of using a device that both sounds superb and gives me access to near-limitless amounts of music, not to mention is as cheap-as-chips! ;)
Much as I rate the sound of some NVA equipment, and have reported such on AoS, the Pi/IQ-Audio combo is in a different league, sonically, from the TFS - and I suspect will become even better with the addition of a high-quality linear PSU.
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Doesn't have to be that expensive a psu, I built one for £25 using a pre built board from ebay and toroidal transformer. It made a significant difference to the Pi/Pidac combo. Add a cheap £25 case to fit psu and Pi in and, as you said, it makes a stunning streamer for £120 (inc card and software)...
Des
Ali Tait
21-03-2015, 07:53
Ali, you can even buy the RPi from Farnell and RS Components. They should be pretty cheap too. I got mine from RS Australia and they delivered it free. :)
Make sure you get the Raspberry Pi 2 B as this is the latest and most powerful version, which you'll eventually be able to try with Windows 10 when it's released for the RPi.
I've used mine with the Hifiberry DAC+ and it doesn't sound as good as the Digi+ s/pdif board into a Caiman II in my system. I might have to try this DAC as it seems to be the business.
Cheers Bernie, yes I've seen them on various sites, was wondering if there was a bundle somewhere with this dac.
Re PSU. I am using a 5v USB power pack to run the Pi the DAC and the wifi dongle without any issues. keep it simple.
How to assemble a decent Pi streamer setup using PiDac.....
1. You will need: Raspberry Pi2, IqAudio PiDac+, PSU (one of these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-low-Noise-40-V-Adjustable-Voltage-Regulator-Module-1-25-20V-1-5-Amp-/371189087840?) and a 12v 1.5A toroidal transormer, case big enough for all of the above, fast 8gb SD card, some free software (SD Formatter, Windisk32 Imager and Volumio).
2. Format SD card using SD Formatter.
3. Write Volumio onto the card using Windisk32 Imager, this is the card fully prepared for use in the Pi.
4. Attach PiDac+ to the Pi2, no soldering required.
5. Connect transformer to psu board, plenty of internet instructions but on the transformer I bought it was a case of wiring the two central wires together and terminating with heatshrink or tape and then positive lead to AC+ on the board and negative to AC-
6. Use an phone charger cable to connect from psu board to Pi2 (cut the unused end and connect to DC out on the psu board), from memory this is a mini usb connector which ground is the outer part of the connctor.
7. Put SD card into Pi2.
8. Power up and allow to boot.
9. Connect to router either directly using Ethernet cable or if in a different room to router/modem use powerline 200mpbs ethernet plugs (about £20 a pair and provide connection to router using your mains wiring). To mu mind ths is much simpler and more robust a solution than messing with setting wifi up on a headless Pi.
10. Connect to Volumio - type volumio.local into a browser (phone, tablet, laptop)
11. Connect to your storage and update library, this will take some time as th Pi2 isn't the quckest PC but i only needs doing when you add more music. Storage can be a USB drive attached directly to the Pi, a pc whch has the correct folders set to "Share" or a NAS drive. This last point will need more explanatin and I'm not the best person for this.
I'm not a computer expert, or big diyer but managed all of the above quite easily with a little reading. Hope this helps, Belloire hopefully will be along to comment sometime....
Hi John,
Welcome to a brave new world Marco so glad you embraced the dark side
One of the best things about this approach is the ablity to stream sites like Spotify with CD like quality I am listening to more music than ever using a similar approach
Cheers, mate - it's great! I've not done the Spotify thing yet, but will do. At the moment I'm simply using the Pi to stream music from a NAS box and ripping my CDs to the Recent folder.
Have you gone the Pi route now, too? Btw, tell Martin that he *must* try the IQ-Audio DAC (instead of the HiFi Berry), and use the Pi straight into his Chord, using Volumio only, bypassing his preamp - it sounds AWESOME that way! :)
Marco.
What's the Volumio software like to use, Marco?...
Great, Jo, dead easy and intuitive to use. I couldn't be happier with it.
I've not got a music server as yet, need to look in to that. Is using a HD too slow?.. or just not as instant.
Also, does it do gapless playback?.... (please say yes... please say yes)... heheh!
In answer to your first question, I don't know, as I've no experience with an HD. What do you mean by gapless playback?
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Doesn't have to be that expensive a psu, I built one for £25 using a pre built board from ebay and toroidal transformer. It made a significant difference to the Pi/Pidac combo. Add a cheap £25 case to fit psu and Pi in and, as you said, it makes a stunning streamer for £120 (inc card and software)...
Nice one, Des. I know Duncan has built one for his Pi, and he reckons there was an improvement, so I'm just waiting for him to build one for Ian and me. I don't know how he's designed it, but if he joins in the thread, I'm sure he'll explain :)
I've yet to hear a switch-mode PSU, in any application, not be outperformed by a high-quality linear unit.
Marco.
jandl100
21-03-2015, 08:38
Interesting! - a decent sounding streamer system. Well, I never, that's a turnup for the books.
Any views of its utility for a classical music listener, Marco?
Give me an off the shelf solution and I might even be arsed to try it out! :lol:
The Black Adder
21-03-2015, 08:40
Great, Jo, dead easy and intuitive to use. I couldn't be happier with it.
In answer to your first question, I don't know, as I've no experience with an HD. What do you mean by gapless playback?
Marco.
Cheers... Gapless meaning that their is no gap between tracks... So, for example, Pink Floyd DSOTM plays through flawlessly just as it does on CD.
Interesting! - a decent sounding streamer system. Well, I never, that's a turnup for the books.
Any views of its utility for a classical music listener, Marco?
Give me an off the shelf solution and I might even be arsed to try it out! :lol:
I've got 100s of 24-bit hi-res classical music files on hard-drives, Jerry, and they sound stunning, with the latest technology on the IQ-Audio DAC able to make the most of their resolution - you'd love it. Think SACD-style sound quality, only probably better!
I Intend to rip all of my (circa 800) classical vinyl records onto a separate hard-drive, so I can enjoy them seamlessly and uninterrupted, when I'm not using the turntable. The idea, not just with classical music, will be to sit in the garden, when the weather's nice, connect up the Celestion 15XRs, and listen to various kinds music (near-limitless choice), all controlled wirelessly from my laptop! :cool:
I might even pull the 66s outside, if I'm feeling really keen and want to 'broadcast' music to the pub next door! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Nice one, Des. I know Duncan has built one for his Pi, and he reckons there was an improvement, so I'm just waiting for him to build one for Ian and me. I don't know how he's designed it, but if he joins in the thread, I'm sure he'll explain :)
I've yet to hear a switch-mode PSU, in any application, not be outperformed by a high-quality linear unit.
Marco.
It wasn't only myself that heard it, I loaned th Pi and Psu to Belloire, he tried it, along with Setting Son and they both ordered one of the boards. For people who don't have someone to do it for them it is a really easy diy option and cheap for a good SQ upgrade....
Interesting! - a decent sounding streamer system. Well, I never, that's a turnup for the books.
Any views of its utility for a classical music listener, Marco?
Give me an off the shelf solution and I might even be arsed to try it out! :lol:
Jerry you can pay people to archive your music collection for you, they'll even come and set the streamer up for you! Might be a bit pricey though
jandl100
21-03-2015, 08:59
Jerry you can pay people to archive your music collection for you, they'll even come and set the streamer up for you! Might be a bit pricey though
Yeah, I seem to recall 50p a CD? :scratch: - so that'll be £1500 please :lol: :nono:
Cheers... Gapless meaning that their is no gap between tracks... So, for example, Pink Floyd DSOTM plays through flawlessly just as it does on CD.
You just hear a slight click (through the speakers) when you first play an album, then a click when it finishes, otherwise it's the same as CD (one tracks just flows seamlessly after another), and you can set up your own playlist :)
I've also had no dropouts so far - the connection here between the NAS and Pi has been rock solid.
Marco.
anthonyTD
21-03-2015, 09:06
I agree,
Streaming can be very good from these little devices, a friend and i have been playing about with a PI system for about a year now, with excelent results, its amazing the performance available from such devices today for so little outlay compared to what would have been needed just a few years ago! :)
A...
Yeah, I seem to recall 50p a CD? :scratch: - so that'll be £1500 please :lol: :nono:
Man up then and get ripping! :goodluck:being serious for a moment I'd have thought a streaming solution woud be great for classical. tagging would allow you to search using different criteria deending on your mood (composer, classical style, conductor etc) and gapless would let the movements have their correct spaces apart (sorry if the terminology is wrong, I now now't about classical)....
I agree,
Streaming can be very good from these little devices, a friend and i have been playing about with a PI system for about a year now, with excelent results, its amazing the performance available from such devices today for so little outlay compared to what would have been needed just a few years ago! :)
Anthony, mate, you've just *got* to get one. Trust me, not only will it sound as good as (or if not better) than your CDPs, you'd be able to sit in your workshop, listening to music on your system, all controlled from your laptop!
If you didn't want to open up the partition doors in your lounge, and hear it through your main speakers, you could simply hook up a small pair of decent speakers, and wall-mount them in your workshop. Then have a wee shimmy-ette, to Sister Sledge, whilst soldering some capacitors....
:dance: :dance: :dance:
....or perhaps not! :lol:
Marco.
Ha ha, for some reason I am finding reading this thread is making me smile, I can it seems stop banging my head against a wall now :brickwall:
With the rise of vinyl sales (I buy an LP at most gigs now), the rise of downloads and decline in CD sales and the availability of affordable, great streaming services, it would seem folly to me for a real music fan not to add this type of capability to their arsenal of playback options. It's part of music's future, embrace it fellas.
Enjoy :cool:
The Black Adder
21-03-2015, 09:39
Good olde Acorn, lol....
jollyfix
21-03-2015, 09:42
How to assemble a decent Pi streamer setup using PiDac.....
1. You will need: Raspberry Pi2, IqAudio PiDac+, PSU (one of these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-low-Noise-40-V-Adjustable-Voltage-Regulator-Module-1-25-20V-1-5-Amp-/371189087840?) and a 12v 1.5A toroidal transormer, case big enough for all of the above, fast 8gb SD card, some free software (SD Formatter, Windisk32 Imager and Volumio).
2. Format SD card using SD Formatter.
3. Write Volumio onto the card using Windisk32 Imager, this is the card fully prepared for use in the Pi.
4. Attach PiDac+ to the Pi2, no soldering required.
5. Connect transformer to psu board, plenty of internet instructions but on the transformer I bought it was a case of wiring the two central wires together and terminating with heatshrink or tape and then positive lead to AC+ on the board and negative to AC-
6. Use an phone charger cable to connect from psu board to Pi2 (cut the unused end and connect to DC out on the psu board), from memory this is a mini usb connector which ground is the outer part of the connctor.
7. Put SD card into Pi2.
8. Power up and allow to boot.
9. Connect to router either directly using Ethernet cable or if in a different room to router/modem use powerline 200mpbs ethernet plugs (about £20 a pair and provide connection to router using your mains wiring). To mu mind ths is much simpler and more robust a solution than messing with setting wifi up on a headless Pi.
10. Connect to Volumio - type volumio.local into a browser (phone, tablet, laptop)
11. Connect to your storage and update library, this will take some time as th Pi2 isn't the quckest PC but i only needs doing when you add more music. Storage can be a USB drive attached directly to the Pi, a pc whch has the correct folders set to "Share" or a NAS drive. This last point will need more explanatin and I'm not the best person for this.
I'm not a computer expert, or big diyer but managed all of the above quite easily with a little reading. Hope this helps, Belloire hopefully will be along to comment sometime....
Thanks Des, great someone with a list of what to do etc. Unfortunately to me its like reading a foreign language. Looks like i need to become computer savvy before i can go down this route. Do i have the time/ want to learn what seems like a foreign language, No, but i would like to as i can see the benefits etc, just wish it was as simple as a CD player, plug in and play. Can you buy stuff like this and do just that?
Thanks Des, great someone with a list of what to do etc. Unfortunately to me its like reading a foreign language. Looks like i need to become computer savvy before i can go down this route. Do i have the time/ want to learn what seems like a foreign language, No, but i would like to as i can see the benefits etc, just wish it was as simple as a CD player, plug in and play. Can you buy stuff like this and do just that?
Probably but the cost will be high, the best value is with something like vortexbox (mini pc setup to rip cd's in FLAC when it arrives) 2 powerline plugs (connect to your internet) and a Pi/PiDac with volumio installed. If someone will sort the Pi part out for you the rest is plug in, rip CDs, type volumio.local into a browser and update library...Voila! Streaming for under £500 that will hold 2000+ cds at full quality. A little more money will buy you a vortexbox server with more capacity.
Hope that reads more like a language you can understand? I've never searched for combined storage/dac solutions, the obvious ones are Devialet etc which are serious money
With the rise of vinyl sales (I buy an LP at most gigs now), the rise of downloads and decline in CD sales and the availability of affordable, great streaming services, it would seem folly to me for a real music fan not to add this type of capability to their arsenal of playback options. It's part of music's future, embrace it fellas.
In terms of the emboldened text, precisely! For me, the most genuine music fans own various music sources, able to access their favourite music in different ways - not just one... Now that I've added a streaming device, I now have five different music sources in total (Pi, CDP, T/T, tape deck and analogue tuner), all of which are used regularly.
Yup, vinyl and FBA are most certainly the future. CD is on borrowed time!
Marco.
anthonyTD
21-03-2015, 10:16
:lol: Yes, i will sort one out in my own system at some point, at the moment with the little one, i barely get time to listen to the music i have on regular sources.:doh:
Anthony, mate, you've just *got* to get one. Trust me, not only will it sound as good as (or if not better) than your CDPs, you'd be able to sit in your workshop, listening to music on your system, all controlled from your laptop!
If you didn't want to open up the partition doors in your lounge, and hear it through your main speakers, you could simply hook up a small pair of decent speakers, and wall-mount them in your workshop. Then have a wee shimmy-ette, to Sister Sledge, whilst soldering some capacitors....
:dance: :dance: :dance:
....or perhaps not! :lol:
Marco.
jollyfix
21-03-2015, 10:24
Probably but the cost will be high, the best value is with something like vortexbox (mini pc setup to rip cd's in FLAC when it arrives) 2 powerline plugs (connect to your internet) and a Pi/PiDac with volumio installed. If someone will sort the Pi part out for you the rest is plug in, rip CDs, type volumio.local into a browser and update library...Voila! Streaming for under £500 that will hold 2000+ cds at full quality. A little more money will buy you a vortexbox server with more capacity.
Hope that reads more like a language you can understand? I've never searched for combined storage/dac solutions, the obvious ones are Devialet etc which are serious money
Great thanks for that Des, yes that seems more simple cheers. I am sure there are many people like me who want to go down this route, but for me its like some one saying " hey fit this to your car, you will get 100 more mile per gallon, it also has auto reverse etc. only thing is to use it you need to strip down gear box .add a turbo move some pipes etc". All fine if you have a bit of mechanical knowledge. I think i need to look into this further, as im sure it is simple enough, just due to my lack of understanding and fear.
Thanks Des, great someone with a list of what to do etc. Unfortunately to me its like reading a foreign language. Looks like i need to become computer savvy before i can go down this route. Do i have the time/ want to learn what seems like a foreign language, No, but i would like to as i can see the benefits etc, just wish it was as simple as a CD player, plug in and play. Can you buy stuff like this and do just that?
Dave, I've not heard the Rpi or dac combo so cant comment on the sq. As a project I might take it on having built a few pc's and stuff in my time. It's worth saying there are a few other ways to skin the cat if you want a small and easy way to stream your music.
If you already have an Android phone or tablet and it uses the lollipop version of os, you can connect it to a USB dac using a USB otg cable, often supplied with the device. That gives you access to Google music or Spotify etc. I'm quite a fan of Google music and have it on all my devices. Having previously ripped all my cds I downloaded the Google music manager and it scans the PC or drive where they're stored and matches them, with artwork etc to the cloud. Your entire library is then available across all your devices which is handy for when you're on the go.
A chromecast dongle has been a revelation for me, they sell for around 30 quid. It plugs into an HDMI slot on your tv and as well as allowing you to cast movies and web, it works flawlessly with Google music. Just select what you want to play in the app and press the cast button, same with YouTube. I run an optical cable from my tv to the dac and that's that. Sounds as good as my squeezebox and if far less awkward to use. It's also one less box to plug in.
This has as good as killed the squeezebox touch for me, which for me has always been clunky and temperamental. In fact I'm going to sell mine here later when I get some pics and stuff up. If anyone's interested please pm me.
Another way is to get yourself a decent notebook PC, not expensive, and use that to a USB dac. I've got a v nice and cheap USB dac here if you'd like to try it.
It has to start with ripping your CDs to decent hard drive though mate, not a huge task, I just did a few at a time whenever I had the computer on and did it over a period of a few weeks. Once you've got them all stored, and safely backed up of course, the options are limitless.
. . . just due to my lack of understanding and fear.
There's nothing to fear Dave except fear itself?
I just had a flick back into my thread history here and it was March 2011 when I first plugged a DAC into a meagre netbook computer and played some FLAC files. I could instantly tell it was better than my CDP, but didn't quite believe it at the time. I knew nothing about FBA then and it's really simple these days compared to 4 years ago (not that it was that hard then to be honest), you might need to learn a few new skills, but isn't that a good thing? However, it really isn't hard and jeez if it can finally get that Luddite, doubting Thomas Marco to embrace it, then there's hope for all ;)
Too many people give up too soon these days, what makes us human is our ability to learn - I'm a few years away from 60 and if I can do it anyone can, it just takes the will to want to do it and I'm also a tight arse wanting to spend my money on music, but with FBA I have not had to compromise on sound quality and I've not broken the bank either.
Canetoad
21-03-2015, 11:16
To power mine I use an MCRU/Longdog Squeezebox PSU and one of these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321499681449?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT), or a battery.
There's nothing to fear Dave except fear itself?
I just had a flick back into my thread history here and it was March 2011 when I first plugged a DAC into a meagre netbook computer and played some FLAC files. I could instantly tell it was better than my CDP, but didn't quite believe it at the time. I knew nothing about FBA then and it's really simple these days compared to 4 years ago (not that it was that hard then to be honest), you might need to learn a few new skills, but isn't that a good thing? However, it really isn't hard and jeez if it can finally get that Luddite, doubting Thomas Marco to embrace it, then there's hope for all ;)
Too many people give up too soon these days, what makes us human is our ability to learn - I'm a few years away from 60 and if I can do it anyone can, it just takes the will to want to do it and I'm also a tight arse wanting to spend my money on music, but with FBA I have not had to compromise on sound quality and I've not broken the bank either.
We have nothing to fear but fear itself! Apart from pain. And maybe humiliation. And obviously death and failure. But apart from fear, pain, humiliation, failure, the unknown and death, we have nothing to fear but fear itself! :eyebrows:
:lol: aye, lot's of bloodshed and mayhem at the last computer audio building session I hear . . .
Hi John,
Cheers, mate - it's great! I've not done the Spotify thing yet, but will do. At the moment I'm simply using the Pi to stream music from a NAS box and ripping my CDs to the Recent folder.
Have you gone the Pi route now, too? Btw, tell Martin that he *must* try the IQ-Audio DAC (instead of the HiFi Berry), and use the Pi straight into his Chord, using Volumio only, bypassing his preamp - it sounds AWESOME that way! :)
Marco.
Getting Spotify at CD quality just opens up so much music.
I not gone down the Pi route at the moment using a Direct Digital amp so can stream via that, SQ is very good indeed once I treated the Ethernet cables that really took playback up to a unexpected notch.
I think Martin likes the his Caiman but he might try out the DAC sometime. Using a good power supply seems to be the key to getting good SQ
The value to SQ performance ratio is amazing. It something we just learning about
Not sure why no one is making a decent music player using the Pi approach. Seems to be a logical step. If I had the skills I do it
Also great having 2TB of music at hand. You can never have to much music
I agree about having different options
Gawd I'm such a dinosaur.
All my computer stuff is years old (Core I2 vintage), but I've been able to stream music from the 'office' PC wirelessly to this laptop and listen via headphones (the headphone outs aren't bad at all if the phones aren't insensitive top-end ones).
Marco - do you think the relative Croft incompatibility could be something as simple as phase inversion? Just guessing, so please don't flame me.
One thing I reckon all this proves is how good, digital audio, can be obtained for not much these days. OK, I admit a case and decent power supply may add hundreds to a basically cheap chipset if something was made for retail..
Good to have friends who can 'look over your shoulder' while you're building these things.
Marco - do you think the relative Croft incompatibility could be something as simple as phase inversion? Just guessing, so please don't flame me.
Flame, flame, flame :wetkipper: ..... Lol!
Anyway, Dave, there's no 'incompatibility', as such. Through the Croft, the Pi/IQ-Audio DAC sounds really good, and if Duncan hadn't thought of using it directly into a power amp, I could've happily used it with the Croft - no worries :)
However, by-pass the Croft (and I'm sure the results would be the same with any other preamp in my system), and the Pi goes from simply sounding very good, to PHENOMENAL - I'm talking nearly as good as the Techy, playing top-notch recordings on vinyl, and that's saying something! £5k's worth of T/T, versus a £200 streamer...... :eek:
I was reading on Wigwam about guys there reducing the output of the Pi-DAC, dropping it by 6db, from it's 2V output, as they felt it sounded too 'full on' and 'glassy' otherwise, but that was through a Croft preamp (I think one of the current range, which are very high gain).
In my system, sound and gain are just perfect, with the full 2V output of the Pi-DAC squirted straight into the Copper amp, where at around the 65-70 mark, on the Volumio gauge, it's about right for 'normal listening', and 90+ for balls-out, blow your windows out, yee-hah rocking! :hairmetal:
I feel that the Pi/IQ-Audio DAC is somewhat of a landmark product, and one of the few genuine advances in audio reproduction that modern technology has produced. Let's hope that plenty of folk jump on, enjoy the ride, and don't miss the bus.... It's *that* good!
Good to have friends who can 'look over your shoulder' while you're building these things.
Indeed, and I always appreciate their help. Better too, than having no friends - and being a lonely boy, as a result of having fallen out with everyone.......... Know of anyone who that might apply to? ;)
Marco.
Getting Spotify at CD quality just opens up so much music.
I not gone down the Pi route at the moment using a Direct Digital amp so can stream via that, SQ is very good indeed once I treated the Ethernet cables that really took playback up to a unexpected notch.
I agree about Spotify. What do you mean by "treated the Ethernet cables" - what did you do to them? I'm just using bog-standard cat5e.
I think Martin likes the his Caiman but he might try out the DAC sometime. Using a good power supply seems to be the key to getting good SQ
Interestingly, for the first time ever with an SMPS unit, I can hear no major deterioration in the sound, using the Raspberry Pi PSU. I guess, as technology advances, SMPS units are getting better. However, I fully expect some sonic gains to be had with the introduction of a high-quality linear PSU.
I'm sure that the Caiman sounds great, with the Pi, but I still suspect that Martin would be in for a shock if he bought the (£32) IQ-Audio Pi-DAC+, and ran it as a hard-wired DAC, without the need for any cables, straight into his power amp. *That* is where the true magic lies, and where special things happen, sonically - certainly in my system.
The value to SQ performance ratio is amazing. It something we just learning about
Not sure why no one is making a decent music player using the Pi approach. Seems to be a logical step. If I had the skills I do it
Also great having 2TB of music at hand. You can never have to much music
I agree about having different options
I agree. The SPPV is just bonkers! Yeah, someone should defo make a decent music player, with the Pi. It seems like a total no-brainer. Yup, 2TB of choons is handly to have - and that will only grow as I start ripping my own CD collection and adding it to further hard-drives... Happy days! :cool:
Marco.
However, it really isn't hard and jeez if it can finally get that Luddite, doubting Thomas Marco to embrace it, then there's hope for all ;)
Ha.... Told ya, daftee, that I wasn't a doubter; merely a discerning (hard to please) listener with high sonic standards, which with FBA, have only now been satisfied! :ner:
Marco.
In terms of the emboldened text, precisely! For me, the most genuine music fans own various music sources, able to access their favourite music in different ways - not just one... Now that I've added a streaming device, I now have five different music sources in total (Pi, CDP, T/T, tape deck and analogue tuner), all of which are used regularly.
Yup, vinyl and FBA are most certainly the future. CD is on borrowed time!
Marco.
sorry what is FBA ? But certainly agree with above :)
Fellow of the British Academy
Federation of British Artists
Federal Bar Association
First Baptist Church, Atlanta, Georgia
Flux Balance Analysis, in chemical engineering/systems biology
Freshwater Biological Association
Fixed Block Architecture, in computer science
Fulfillment by Amazon, Amazon.com's third-party fulfillment service
Form-based authentication
French BasketBall Association
File-Based Audio, Roops! :)
Marco.
:doh:
edit: is streamed music also consider FBA ? Who knows, maybe someone is playing it on a TT with a mic in front of the speakers :scratch: (just joking)
The Black Adder
21-03-2015, 17:18
Flying Binary in the Air
:D
Makes more sense to me...
Nought wrong with the cat 5se I am using 7se but have treated the ends with Extreme Silver treatment I bought years ago In the past I tried it with valves and it had no benefit But with the Ethernet cables it was a noticeable step up in SQ. For years I considered it foo but happy I gave it another try I am now using it with my fuses and all connections. We not talking big increase in SQ but as you know a lot of small changes add up
Ah, that's interesting.... In your experience, then, does the quality of Ethernet cable also make a difference? This is an area I have no experience in whatsoever, so I'm always keen to learn :)
What about upgrading the mains lead that supplies power to your hard-drives? Lol.... Hey, who knows? :eyebrows:
First thing for me, however, will be to sort out a nice linear PSU, for the Pi.
Marco.
edit: is streamed music also consider FBA ?
Who cares, as long as it sounds good . . .
As a Glasgow Celtic football supporter, I'm more in tune with FTQ, than FBA...... :eyebrows:
Marco.
Hi,
Been running a Pi and IQ Dac for a while now. Simple to set up and I've been streaming from Spotify, Qobuz, Tidal, TuneinRadio and my NAS and sound quality is superb, in fact it's made me think of ditching my vinyl setup on a few occasions!
Mike.
Hi,
Been running a Pi and IQ Dac for a while now. Simple to set up and I've been streaming from Spotify, Qobuz, Tidal, TuneinRadio and my NAS and sound quality is superb, in fact it's made me think of ditching my vinyl setup on a few occasions!
Mike.
Never used any of them; just use my own files and occasional internet radio(usually Aussie outback station)
Hi,
Been running a Pi and IQ Dac for a while now. Simple to set up and I've been streaming from Spotify, Qobuz, Tidal, TuneinRadio and my NAS and sound quality is superb, in fact it's made me think of ditching my vinyl setup on a few occasions!
Hi Mike,
Personally, I wouldn't, but I can easily see how a lot of folk would, who aren't as 'into' the whole vinyl thing as me, simply because the performance from the Pi and IQ DAC is *that* good!!
Marco.
Who cares, as long as it sounds good . . .
sorry tim I was just asking
No need to apologise old bean, just my humour ;)
Oldpinkman
21-03-2015, 22:06
Marco. I'm using a pi2 with berry DAC+ and was likewise very impressed. Mine is running as a squeezebox. Using a £10 battery makes an astonishing improvement to the sound (and you know my take on foo). Smps are capable of being fine power supplies done well, but the bog standard pi ones I was using were easily bettered with a cheap battery (which also provides a handy way to turn it off)
Nice one, Richard. That's certainly something to think about, and which I'll probably investigate. At the moment, the Pi one seems to be doing a pretty good job, certainly to produce the results I'm hearing.
The acid test will be to see what a top-notch linear PSU brings to the party :)
Marco.
what voltage is it? 5volts?
Yup, 5V and 2A....
Marco.
2 Amps....thats quite heavy. is it a 2.1mm plug as per. some of the chinese linear psu's are good vfm
This is it here: http://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-universal-power-supply
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Doesn't have to be that expensive a psu, I built one for £25 using a pre built board from ebay and toroidal transformer. It made a significant difference to the Pi/Pidac combo. Add a cheap £25 case to fit psu and Pi in and, as you said, it makes a stunning streamer for £120 (inc card and software)...
Des
hi Des, dja have some photos of your kit ? please .?
Audio Advent
21-03-2015, 22:46
I've heard of this before, seems to be getting quite a cult status. I did some stuff for the PI with the BBC Micro a while ago.
How can this iddy liccul thing do such a good job?... Witchcraft my friend, witchcraft. ..lol
Uh??! What did you do with the BBC Micro?
not come across many linear's using the micro usb but all things are solvable
Fear not. Paul Hynes is on it, so watch this space.... ;)
Marco.
Audio Advent
21-03-2015, 22:58
I know nowt about Linux either - less than nowt, in fact, but I didn't need to know anything about it, in order to use the Pi!
As for NAS drives, what I've got, as far as I know, is just a big square aluminium box with two hard-drives in it, which lights up and makes a whirring noise (due to the cooling fans inside), that is connected to my router, and from there onto the Pi, via cat5e cable. There's nothing complicated about it.
Marco.
Most routers these days have USB ports so you can just plug in any USB hard drive on to the network, no need for NAS or any other acronym as long as you know how to set up your router. That takes away a little of the tech talk for some.
Fear not. Paul Hynes is on it, so watch this space.... ;)
Marco.
Inside forward for Fulham wasn't he ;)
Indeed... I still don't know where a knowledge of Linux came into it, in terms of operating the Pi, as that is not a factor here for me at all. If it had been, I'd have binned the idea!
Also, what's this PUTTY thing you're supposed to need that some folk are on about? :scratch:
Marco.
Inside forward for Fulham wasn't he ;)
Was he? Anyway, the one I'm on about eez our resident PSU expert.
Marco.
Not come across his name here....shows I am not paying attention.....and it was Johnny Haynes(the footballer) got the haynes right :)
If I get one and I may yet as Mike is offered kindly to set one up for me, then I may be after a psu if it makes a difference.
You've not heard of Paul Hynes?? :wowzer: :wowzer:
Dude, you *do* need to pay attention! See here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?16655-Paul-Hynes-Power-Supplies
And here: http://www.paulhynesdesign.com/index.html
Also my sig, next to the details of my modded Techy. Paul designed the individually regulated PSU for it, which is one of the major reasons why my T/T sounds how it does.
Some homework for you, my boy! ;)
Marco.
I have heard of him of course just never noticed he was a member here. .....youve never heard of johnny haynes :eyebrows:
Probably before my time ;)
Marco.
His best years would have been....a little before mine tbh.....first £100 a week player he was. Died in Scotland about 10 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Haynes#Career_statistics
The Black Adder
22-03-2015, 08:19
Most routers these days have USB ports so you can just plug in any USB hard drive on to the network, no need for NAS or any other acronym as long as you know how to set up your router. That takes away a little of the tech talk for some.
I set up my router with an external HDD yesterday... a bit of a faff and the TalkTalk router isn't the fastest but it works fine.
The Black Adder
22-03-2015, 08:22
Uh??! What did you do with the BBC Micro?
I worked with some guys in Sheffield who were making some modular programming courses that was based on BBC Basic. They needed some GUI work, so seeing as I have a games background and from Sheffield... lol and had a beeb back in 83 it was fun to revisit.
Ah, that's interesting.... In your experience, then, does the quality of Ethernet cable also make a difference? This is an area I have no experience in whatsoever, so I'm always keen to learn :)
What about upgrading the mains lead that supplies power to your hard-drives? Lol.... Hey, who knows? :eyebrows:
First thing for me, however, will be to sort out a nice linear PSU, for the Pi.
Marco.
I imagine the power supply will make the biggest difference and sure the one Paul will make will be special
I only had a bit of experience with different Ethernet cables when I used to use Jplay with a 2PC set up and yes there was a difference between CAT 5 6 and 7. I had spare 7 lying around.
I use a very different approach so cannot comment about how the Pi will respond but I suspect a small noticeable difference (in my case it made the difference to being able to listen to streaming to actually really enoying it) From my own trails I would say the connection is the key part to this. Once your P system has settled if you wish you can borrow the treatment (very easy to do) and see if it makes a difference.
From my own point of view getting away from USB is good as it will only get you so far. This is something I heard on Tony C super pc based transport
I imagine the power supply will make the biggest difference and sure the one Paul will make will be special
I only had a bit of experience with different Ethernet cables when I used to use Jplay with a 2PC set up and yes there was a difference between CAT 5 6 and 7. I had spare 7 lying around.
I use a very different approach so cannot comment about how the Pi will respond but I suspect a small noticeable difference (in my case it made the difference to being able to listen to streaming to actually really enoying it) From my own trails I would say the connection is the key part to this. Once your P system has settled if you wish you can borrow the treatment (very easy to do) and see if it makes a difference.
From my own point of view getting away from USB is good as it will only get you so far. This is something I heard on Tony C super pc based transport
I have heard the difference between Cat5 and Cat7 myself and indeed i know a dealer who has a system set up to demonstrate the two very effectively. :eyebrows:
Interesting, chaps... I'll let the streaming system settle in a little (as I've noticed that the Pi-DAC has improved over the last few days, perhaps due to 'burn-in'), and get the linear PSU sorted before messing around with Ethernet cables.
What's the difference then between Cat5, 6 or 7? Speed of data transmission, or what? And are there 'audiophile' versions of Ethernet cables available? :)
Marco.
CAT 7 is much more resilient to interference compared to a CAT 5 cable. Why? CAT 7 has an overall shield as well as individual shielding of every pair.
And are there 'audiophile' versions of Ethernet cables available?
Oh yes
http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/audioquest-rj-e-diamond-ethernet-cable.html
Stratmangler
22-03-2015, 12:30
CAT 7 is much more resilient to interference compared to a CAT 5 cable. Why? CAT 7 has an overall shield as well as individual shielding of every pair.
Is it?
If the shielding isn't grounded then it becomes an aerial ;)
Just using a Cat7 patch cable doesn't mean it's Cat7 connected - you need the appropriate grounding for it to reach Cat7 standards.
Ditch the cables guys and go WiFi?
Fewer cables to worry about I'd always a good thing.
Stratmangler
22-03-2015, 12:52
Nah!
Wired gives you much greater bandwidth than wireless - a 100mbps wired link can easily cope with 24/192 files, whereas wireless struggles to cope.
Nah!
Wired gives you much greater bandwidth than wireless - a 100mbps wired link can easily cope with 24/192 files, whereas wireless struggles to cope.
Yep you are correct their Chris and wireless cannot compete with Cat 7 cable capabilities.
Nah!
Wired gives you much greater bandwidth than wireless - a 100mbps wired link can easily cope with 24/192 files, whereas wireless struggles to cope.
Precisely - and you're just increasing the risk of dropouts... I'm wireless, as far as my router and laptop goes, but I'll be staying wired from my NAS to the Pi.
Incidentally, how exactly does one provide the "appropriate grounding", in order to fully utilise the benefits of Cat7? A small step-by-step guide, which I can follow easily, would be good :)
Marco.
Yep you are correct their Chris and wireless cannot compete with Cat 7 cable capabilities.
a robust wireless connection has ample bandwidth to stream any audio file.. even several at a time. (i.e. since WiFi uses TCP/IP transmission, as long as the data gets there, it will be identical to the source. Just my 2 cts.
StanleyB
22-03-2015, 13:43
I can play 24/192 FLAC quite happily over my wireless connection when I use the PC that is set up as my audio and video storage. The wireless is not so fast when I use my NAS. So I suspect that the NAS is the bottleneck.
I also discovered that the SB Touch starts to produce buffering errors over the wireless network after more than 30 minutes of constant use. It is OK on the wired connection though even if that wired connection s coming from a wireless repeater.
I haven't investigated the ins and out behind the results, but it is an observation that I made.
Is it?
If the shielding isn't grounded then it becomes an aerial ;)
Just using a Cat7 patch cable doesn't mean it's Cat7 connected - you need the appropriate grounding for it to reach Cat7 standards.
Indeed Chris, a loose analogy you can draw is to the use of supposedly 75ohm rated phono connectors sometimes used on SPDIF cables....what these cable plug into are not 75ohm rated.
@ stanb
That has probably to do with the router, hubs, etc. I get 20-40 Gb/sec constant data rates from my NAS over Cat5 and around 5-15Gb/sec over Wifi. Not sure why the buffering would start after 30 mins. though. That said, a wired network connection will IMHO always be more stable and robust than a WiFi connection. If I had to rewire my house I would use Cat7 only to be compatible with future network hardware.
Precisely - and you're just increasing the risk of dropouts... I'm wireless, as far as my router and laptop goes, but I'll be staying wired from my NAS to the Pi.
Incidentally, how exactly does one provide the "appropriate grounding", in order to fully utilise the benefits of Cat7? A small step-by-step guide, which I can follow easily, would be good :)
Marco.
Macro you can't. The kit has to be designed to make use of the higher transmission capabilities that CAT7/7a is capable of and I don't think the PI has a 10/40GbE capable network port.....
Ah, I see. Thanks, Neal. So really it's just a case of if I can be arsed trying some Cat7, and seeing if I can hear any difference between that and Cat5e - a 'suck it and see' job :)
Marco.
I would just relax, sit back and listen to the music and not worry about Ethernet, Cat5, 6, 7, n, cables which IMO should not influence the SQ. If the network is not robust, i.e. has some fault in it there will be dropouts but thats about it. These cables transport data. And as stated above, the Pi is not even capable of transporting data quick enough to even get close to the limits of Cat5 cables. I really don't want to start a cable war :rolleyes:
Ethernet cables can change the sound, for better or worse thats up to you, your ears and your system...there I said it! :)
I have these throughout my network, imo improves things audio wise between the router, the Transporter and my server.
Decided on these after taking a punt on one and sitting down to listen. Much cheapness, fit n forget.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003CL1E9K?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
where is the limit ? Will gold-plate Ethernet cables make the SQ better :lol: There is a good article from Arstechnica here (http://arstechnica.com/staff/2015/02/to-the-audiophile-this-10000-ethernet-cable-apparently-makes-sense/).. in the mean time I am going to listen to some music.
where is the limit ? Will gold-plate Ethernet cables make the SQ better :lol:
Don't forget the gold plugs aswel:lol:
Cat 7 is for large data transfer at high speeds and I would be surprised if anything approaches that in the hifi world but you would be future proofed, that is if your equipment can interface with them.
I think it is the individual screening of the cables within the ethernet cable that makes a big difference never mind the data transfer capabilities.
I found this quote which I think is quite funny and sums up what I think about anything network / audiophile related.
True audiophiles wouldn't buy a Cisco enterprise-class router, they'd by something twice as expensive with a name you've never heard of out of a shed in Yorkshire. Which turns out to be a rebranded Linksys.
I would just relax, sit back and listen to the music and not worry about Ethernet, Cat5, 6, 7, n, cables which IMO should not influence the SQ. If the network is not robust, i.e. has some fault in it there will be dropouts but thats about it. These cables transport data. And as stated above, the Pi is not even capable of transporting data quick enough to even get close to the limits of Cat5 cables. I really don't want to start a cable war :rolleyes:
Hi Rupert,
You're most probably right, but the 'What If?' demon will doubtless get the better of me! :eyebrows:
That, however, most certainly won't stop me from enjoying music. Last night I was up until 2am, doing precisely that.
Gaz, nice recco on the cables, ta. Noted :)
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Wait until your Pi-Dac hits 50 hours +, it really starts to shine.
Mike.
I used to worry about this sort of stuff but if I'm honest I can't tell the difference and cds still sound good to me. No wires - no grounding issues as far as I see.
All my streaming streaming, movies music themail lot is wireless. Dropouts never occur. I use the latest virgin superhub on their fastest connection and stream whilst working and other people using the net as well
Hi Rupert,
You're most probably right, but the 'What If?' demon will doubtless get the better of me! :eyebrows:
That, however, most certainly won't stop me from enjoying music. Last night I was up until 2am, doing precisely that.
Gaz, nice recco on the cables, ta. Noted :)
Marco.
:lol: I get it as well from time to time !!
rallye666
22-03-2015, 16:13
I suppose I better admit to paying £50 on eBay for 5m of meicord Ethernet cable...
Supposedly highly rated but it's unshielded and cat5!
Ah, I see. Thanks, Neal. So really it's just a case of if I can be arsed trying some Cat7, and seeing if I can hear any difference between that and Cat5e - a 'suck it and see' job :)
Marco.
Yup!
People hear what they hear or think they hear, if they are happy then they are happy and that's all that counts but please try to keep a realistic head on your shoulders and don't spend £1600 on a Cord audiophool Ethernet cable. ;)
This is a good read for those interested, look away now Marco, LOL! http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/measurements-ethernet-cables-and-audio.html
Go straight to the conclusion/summary....
The Black Adder
22-03-2015, 17:34
People hear what they hear or think they hear, if they are happy then they are happy and that's all that counts but please try to keep a realistic head on your shoulders and don't spend £1600 on a Cord audiophool Ethernet cable. ;)
This is a good read for those interested, look away now Marco, LOL! http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/measurements-ethernet-cables-and-audio.html
Go straight to the conclusion/summary....
this caught my eye in there too!
http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2014/11/The-Chord-Company-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_274211.aspx#.VQ78sPnkfa7
just goes to show how far the marketing departments will go...
The Black Adder
22-03-2015, 17:45
just goes to show how far the marketing departments will go...
Indeed!
Not to much difference in the price between cat 5 and cat 7 if you avoid the audiophile versions
I'll probably have a (limited) play around with some reasonable cost Ethernet cables (I like Gary's suggestion, for example), before settling on my final choice, and then that will be that. I certainly won't be getting anal about it :)
Marco.
The Black Adder
22-03-2015, 20:43
Marco... because you plug it in directly to the copper, does that mean you are switching leads for when you want to use the Croft?... or are you using some T connectors?
Switching leads, dude. I don't 'do' signal-degrading adaptors :nono:
Marco.
The Black Adder
22-03-2015, 21:00
lol... didn't think so. :)
Guys,
How do you activate Spotify?
I've got a Premium Spotify account, and have entered my details on the 'Streaming Service' section of the Volumio 'System' control panel, clicked on 'Apply', and all was well, apart from the fact that I can't see how to actually use Spotify....
It did say that a reboot was required, so how do I perform that, if indeed that's what is necessary in order to access Spotify on the Pi? I don't want to upset any technical settings, though, which I wouldn't know how to reset.
Marco.
Lol - that's going nowhere, as I've got about 2500 CDs I still want to play.
No-way am I ripping all of those, as a) I can't be arsed, plus I've got the space to keep them in a dedicated room, b) I like using and collecting physical music media, and c) I wish to retain the option of directly comparing playback of a CD, versus streaming of the same music.
There is also the fact that the Sony still has a certain way of presenting music all of its own :)
Marco.
In my experience ripped CD,s sound invariably better than vanilla CD probably because of the lack of error correction and technical gubbins going on in transferring the signal via a CD player.
Anyone? :popcorn:
Marco.
Hi Marco,
not sure I use Picoreplayer and Logitech Media Server, if Volumio uses LMS then you need to go to the advanced LMS settings and reboot from there.
Mike.
Thanks, Mike. No idea how to do that, however, so will have to wait until someone who knows comes along :)
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Have you enabled your device (pi/volumio) on your Spotify account. I think you need to log in or your pc and they will give you an option to allow another 'device'
Mike.
Why Spotify Marco? You've got a good system PAY THE EXTRA for TIDAL. It is CD quality and it is better by more than a stretch. I found Spotify tough going sonically.
Cheers, Justin. However, I know nothing about Tidal.
I've also already got a Spotify account, and the Pi (appears) to support it. I wouldn't have a Scooby-doo how to use Tidal with the Pi, and I'm also not sure I want to pay more for a service that I only use to discover new music with (and then buy the respective music on CD or vinyl), not for 'serious' listening :)
In that respect, the SQ of Spotify is probably ample for my needs.
Marco.
Yeah I used to think that.
TIDAL will just be the same as Spotify - just use an appropriate output driver. Google it I bet you get some info but maybe not, I'm not sure how popular the PI is yet for said task.
TIDAL stops you from wanting to buy anything. It is genuinely good enough SQ wise I think. You don't need to use it to search for stuff to buy - it is your source!
If you have less than 2Mbps on your internet link forget it, though.
TIDAL will just be the same as Spotify - just use an appropriate output driver. Google it I bet you get some info but maybe not, I'm not sure how popular the PI is yet for said task.
Indeed, so I ain't gonna go there. Apart from anything else, I wouldn't have a clue what an 'appropriate driver' was or how to use it appropriately for the task in hand. Remember that you're talking to a total computer numptie here!
TIDAL stops you from wanting to buy anything. It is genuinely good enough SQ wise I think. You don't need to use it to search for stuff to buy - it is your source!
I'll bear it in mind, if someone can confirm it can be used with the Pi, and also exactly (in simple terms) how that is done. The other thing to bear in mind is that, although I've now embraced FBA, I'm still firmly in the 'physical media fanclub' camp, especially where vinyl is concerned.
Therefore, if I heard something on Tidal, Spotify (or whatever) that I liked, I'd still want the music either on vinyl (preferably, if it's available on that format) or CD, so I can do my own ripping of the music to my hard-drives :)
Marco.
Indeed, so I ain't gonna go there. Apart from anything else, I wouldn't have a clue what an 'appropriate driver' was or how to use it appropriately for the task in hand. Remember that you're talking to a total computer numptie here!
I'll bear it in mind, if someone can confirm it can be used with the Pi, and also exactly (in simple terms) how that is done. The other thing to bear in mind is that, although I've now embraced FBA, I'm still firmly in the 'physical media fanclub' camp, especially where vinyl is concerned.
Therefore, if I heard something on Tidal, Spotify (or whatever) that I liked, I'd still want the music either on vinyl (preferably, if it's available on that format) or CD, so I can do my own ripping of the music to my hard-drives :)
Marco.
Too true. :) Never bought any virtual music. I get it free when I buy anything from Amazon and have a huge mp3(320 rate I think) but never bother as I rip my stuff to the pc from cd. if its a vinyl it stays a vinyl.
Indeed, so I ain't gonna go there. Apart from anything else, I wouldn't have a clue what an 'appropriate driver' was or how to use it appropriately for the task in hand. Remember that you're talking to a total computer numptie here!
I'll bear it in mind, if someone can confirm it can be used with the Pi, and also exactly (in simple terms) how that is done. The other thing to bear in mind is that, although I've now embraced FBA, I'm still firmly in the 'physical media fanclub' camp, especially where vinyl is concerned.
Therefore, if I heard something on Tidal, Spotify (or whatever) that I liked, I'd still want the music either on vinyl (preferably, if it's available on that format) or CD, so I can do my own ripping of the music to my hard-drive :)
Marco.
It is a slow process Marco. Take it one step at a time. But you will get there. It is the future. And it is here now:) Not owning physical media is something you will learn to take for granted. But it is bloody hard to accept for some I appreciate that. Bear in mind though - these services just won't go away. They'll just get better. And better.
Just get Spotify going then try a TIDAL demo. Ask a few questions on the forum and we'll have you up and running.
Hi Marco,
Did you see my post about Spotify device enabling?
Just in case you missed it.
Mike.
I hope that didn't sound too condescending:D
Hi Marco,
Did you see my post about Spotify device enabling?
Just in case you missed it.
Mike.
Nope, Mike. A mate has just mentioned to go to the Menu and select the 'shutdown' option. However, I'm just waiting for confirmation from him that, if I do that, it won't affect any other settings and then not allow me to use the system when it reboots.
Marco.
It is a slow process Marco. Take it one step at a time. But you will get there. It is the future. And it is here now. Not owning physical media is something you will learn to take for granted.
Sorry, mate. That will *NEVER* happen! I have circa 2500 CDs and about 3000 vinyl albums, and I'll be taking them all to my grave! I just love the whole 'tactile' experience of physical music media, and that won't change, as it's the way my brain is wired :)
What I will be doing is slowly (and it will be slowly) ripping the best stuff I've got to hard-drives, and streaming it, simply for when convenience is an issue, such as for accessing music when out in the garden in the summer, and playing it on the Celestions, or when I'm downstairs in the lounge listening, rather than in my dedicated listening room.
Up until now, I hadn't heard a good enough FBA source to invest in it, but the Pi has changed all that, and so has become simply another highly sonically capable music-making source in my system, but it will never replace the others and become my only one, no matter in future what is considered as 'the norm'.
I've never been one for following trends or worrying about being 'up to date'. I do my OWN thing, baby, no matter what others get up to, and always will do! I'm a leader, not a follower ;)
Bear in mind though - these services just won't go away. They'll just get better. And better.
I quite agree, and so I'll simply ensure that my FBA system improves and evolves with the times, as it would be daft not to, but that's as far as it'll go.
Just get Spotify going then try a TIDAL demo. Ask a few questions on the forum and we'll have you up and running.
Yup, that's the plan :cool:
Marco.
the Spotify service should appear in the library section. You can reboot, no problem, not sure it is required though... more on volumio.org and the raspi thread over at the audio standard.. greets off to work
The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 07:14
In my experience ripped CD,s sound invariably better than vanilla CD probably because of the lack of error correction and technical gubbins going on in transferring the signal via a CD player.
I'm glad someone has noticed this... I thought I was going mad.
I used EAC with the error correction on, the thing is it took ages (about 3 hours) to rip one cd... (it had some scratches) lol - So I gave up on the ripping stuff. I also threw in the towel because my streamer didn't do gapless But when I did rip it it did sound more organic somehow.
When I dug my Sony DVP S9000ES out of the cupboard and started using that with my DAC, that too also sounded somewhat identical so it would be interesting now to see if ripped stuff can beat it.
I think the reason the S9000ES sounds so good is because it buffers and re-reads (so I've heard).. so this could account for this phenomenon.
Does this make sense to you?
The thing is.. I was going to go back to a one box solution but now I may just opt for the Pi jobbie because I could really do with some room and my transport and DAC are huge babies weighing in at around 30kg+.
the Spotify service should appear in the library section. You can reboot, no problem, not sure it is required though... more on volumio.org and the raspi thread over at the audio standard.. greets off to work
Done a reboot and looked in the library, but Spotify still isn't there... Think I'll join the Volumio forum and see if they can help. Why can't things just be simple and straightforward! :rolleyes:
Marco.
Hi Marco, it is in the "Browse" section, sorry. Attached a screen shot
14243
It's not in my Browse section, mate. All that's there is my NAS box (containing the music on my hard-drives) and WEBRADIO.... That's the problem: until I can see Spotify listed there, I can't select it and use it.
Tried rebooting the system, but that has had no effect. I have, of course, entered my Spotify details in the Streaming Services section, and switched Spotify to 'On'.
Marco.
I'm glad someone has noticed this... I thought I was going mad.
I used EAC with the error correction on, the thing is it took ages (about 3 hours) to rip one cd... (it had some scratches) lol - So I gave up on the ripping stuff. I also threw in the towel because my streamer didn't do gapless But when I did rip it it did sound more organic somehow.
When I dug my Sony DVP S9000ES out of the cupboard and started using that with my DAC, that too also sounded somewhat identical so it would be interesting now to see if ripped stuff can beat it.
I think the reason the S9000ES sounds so good is because it buffers and re-reads (so I've heard).. so this could account for this phenomenon.
Does this make sense to you?
The thing is.. I was going to go back to a one box solution but now I may just opt for the Pi jobbie because I could really do with some room and my transport and DAC are huge babies weighing in at around 30kg+.
eac can sometimes do that if there is either problems with disc or you select the wrong album info if there is more than one possible. normally it takes 5 mins a disc approx. if i have one thats troublesome i usually just use foobar or jriver to rip it...
are you sure your Spotify credentials are correct ? Stupid question but do you have a "Premium" account ?
PS. if you have an iphone, ipad, etc. you will see a "volumio" airplay speaker in the "control center" (the icon is a rectangle with a triangle in it) Click it and your music will be streamed to the Raspi DAC. This is in fact a better way to browse your Spotify music IMHO maybe not for the absolutely best SQ :eyebrows: but far more convenient than browsing the Library with the web interface.
Yup. I successfully set up a Premium account on Spotify (from a free one) last night, for this very purpose. Then entered my Spotify name and password into the Streaming Services section of Volumio, which it has accepted, so it's all there; for some reason it's just not listing Spotify in the Browse section, so I'm then able to select it.
Marco.
Just noticed your edit:
PS. if you have an iphone, ipad, etc. you will see a "volumio" airplay speaker in the "control center" (the icon is a rectangle with a triangle in it) Click it and your music will be streamed to the Raspi DAC. This is in fact a better way to browse your Spotify music IMHO maybe not for the absolutely best SQ :eyebrows: but far more convenient than browsing the Library with the web interface.
Soz, don't have an iPhone or iPad. I just use my laptop.
Marco.
Volumio won't indicate a wrong password unfortunately. That is why I would copy / paste it just to be absolutely certain that it is correct.
It was manually entered into the box in Volumio, Rupert - the same password that's currently working when I use Spotify externally on my laptop (out with of Volumio), so the password must be correct.
Marco.
maybe you'll find an answer here
https://volumio.org/forum/spotify-not-working-t2272.html
good luck :)
The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 09:57
eac can sometimes do that if there is either problems with disc or you select the wrong album info if there is more than one possible. normally it takes 5 mins a disc approx. if i have one thats troublesome i usually just use foobar or jriver to rip it...
Yup... Never used foobar or jriver so I'll most likely try those too, cheers, Grant :)
may you'll find an answer here
https://volumio.org/forum/spotify-not-working-t2272.html
good luck :)
Yup, I've joined and posted. Thanks for your help, anyway :)
It'll just be something daft. However, there should be proper instructions on Volumio, for novices, on how to properly finalise Spotify activation. At the moment that's lacking.
Marco.
Quote from the Volumio thread
I had the same problem. It turned out the /etc/spopd.conf had the wrong spotify credentials in it. This file is not updated when you change the credentials from the menu. It did work however when I changed the credentials in the conf file directly with nano. After that I could login normally to spotify and everything works fine!
That seems to be the problem. No easy fix unless you are familiar with a "terminal" and the "nano" editor. This is probably why some are afraid of Linux :) but rest assured, it isn't complicated (if you know how to).
Alternatively, try updating your Volumio installation. From the Volumio web GUI System >> System Updates.... maybe they have fixed the problem in the mean time..
Ah, I see.... No way am I attempting to go near any of that, so I shall wait until I can get hold of Duncan (the chap who set up the Pi and Volumio for me), and he should be able to sort it.
However, could you link to where you obtained the above quote? I can't see the discussion you're referring to.
Marco.
sure: here goes, last post on the page by "Dion"
https://volumio.org/forum/spotify-not-working-t2272.html
Cheers. Interesting.... I don't know why they can't just get these things right in the first place, or indeed why the issue hasn't been fixed since it was reported last year! :rolleyes:
As Volumio was only installed on my laptop last week, when the Pi was set-up, one would presume that if the error had been fixed, I'd have picked up the fix when the install was done?
Therefore, unless they've only attended to the matter in the last week (unlikely surely?), I doubt reinstalling Volumio will cure the problem.
Marco.
I'm glad someone has noticed this... I thought I was going mad.
I used EAC with the error correction on, the thing is it took ages (about 3 hours) to rip one cd... (it had some scratches) lol - So I gave up on the ripping stuff. I also threw in the towel because my streamer didn't do gapless But when I did rip it it did sound more organic somehow.
When I dug my Sony DVP S9000ES out of the cupboard and started using that with my DAC, that too also sounded somewhat identical so it would be interesting now to see if ripped stuff can beat it.
I think the reason the S9000ES sounds so good is because it buffers and re-reads (so I've heard).. so this could account for this phenomenon.
Does this make sense to you?
The thing is.. I was going to go back to a one box solution but now I may just opt for the Pi jobbie because I could really do with some room and my transport and DAC are huge babies weighing in at around 30kg+.
Hi Jo,
File based audio is definitely the way to go with 01010110 music and very good results can be obtained. I have been lucky enough to hear digital done at a very high level using FBA and these are my observations hearing all sorts of digitally encoded stuff back to back.
1. Ripped CD via FBA is certainly better than standard CD no matter how good/expensive the player. It can embarass very high end CD players for a fraction of the cost.
2. When ripping CD the software used is critical to ensure all the 0101010 stuff is exactly as it should be. I have heard ripped stuff compared with up to 5 databases.
3. 24 Bit and DSD can sound superb and sometimes better than ripped RED Book CD BUT it does depend on a number of factors and in my opinion is not all its cracked up to be. True DSD done well is the ultimate but rarely do you come across really good stuff and 24 bit often sounds no better or even worse than ripped CD. Often its all in the engineering! Bit like analog:)
4. As in analog set ups everything matters so NAS units, cables, HDD, DACs and streamers all add there own bit of 'colouration':)
Interesting how Digital stuff can still be manipulated to get more out of it and as DACs and streamers and software etc all improve the bar will get even higher.
However no matter which way it is done for me it still sound digital. I still prefer the distortion and colouration of valves and analog, not the squeaky clean precision of 011010101 and transistors. :lol:
Its all good stuff
Cheers. Interesting.... I don't know why they can't just get these things right in the first place, or indeed why the issue hasn't been fixed since it was reported last year! :rolleyes:
As Volumio was only installed on my laptop last week, when the Pi was set-up, one would presume that if the error had been fixed, I'd have picked up the fix when the install was done?
Therefore, unless they've only attended to the matter in the last week (unlikely surely?), I doubt reinstalling Volumio will cure the problem.
Marco.
I'm glad you've embraced streaming Marco, good on you for trying it, my 'epiphany' moment was back in 2005 with the SqueezeBox MK1 when it was indistinguishable in SQ from my CD5/FlatCapII with just the addition of a linear PSU. I've not looked back since, however, streaming still has a bit of a way to go to be truly plug-n-play IMHO. If you are not at all computer literate the simplest of issues like your Spotify one above means you have to be reliant on others to get it working….current solutions are close but there's no cigar available yet.
Halfway Tree
23-03-2015, 13:42
Just discovered this thread and I'm just about to purchase JRiver wondered how Volumio manages volume control? It looks like it's 24 bit? in software, but it appears that there could be hardware volume control on the IQ Dac on the Rpi. Can anyone shed any light on this?
many thanks
Gordon
Hi Jim,
1. Ripped CD via FBA is certainly better than standard CD no matter how good/expensive the player. It can embarass very high end CD players for a fraction of the cost.
Not *always* in my experience. It certainly wasn't the case in my system until I discovered the Pi/IQ-Audio DAC combo, and like you, I've heard some expensive 'state-of-the-art' streaming set-ups. Even now, as superb as the Pi is, my modified Sony CDP/DAC, playing the best recorded discs, still does some stuff a little better (and vice-versa the Pi), which is patently obvious when doing back-to-back comparisons.
The problem is that very few people these days have access to 'cost-no-object', battleship-build 'statement' CDPs, designed in the 'heyday of CD' era, by huge multi-national companies, such as Sony, who knew exactly how to get the most from Red Book CD, and had the wherewithal to achieve it.
Therefore, it comes down to benchmarks. If you've never heard CD truly 'done right', as I've just outlined, then any decent FBA set-up will wipe the floor with most players made these days. It's all in the quality of the transport mechanism and associated 'infrastructure', and its ability not only to read the musical information on discs as accurately as possible (reducing the limitations of that physical interface), but also to reduce noise to minimal levels with CD playback.
3. 24 Bit and DSD can sound superb and sometimes better than ripped RED Book CD BUT it does depend on a number of factors and in my opinion is not all its cracked up to be. True DSD done well is the ultimate but rarely do you come across really good stuff and 24 bit often sounds no better or even worse than ripped CD. Often its all in the engineering! Bit like analog:)
That's also what I suspect, and indeed experience so far suggests. For me, it requires just as much know-how and expertise to get truly top-notch sound from an FBA set-up, as it does from an analogue one. Folk are brainwashed by the 'digital is perfect' nonsense, and so don't try as hard as they should to max-out what's achievable with it, simply because they consider the effort unnecessary.
In that respect, they're wrong. Also, 24-bit, as you correctly say, is no automatic 'magic bullet!
4. As in analog set ups everything matters so NAS units, cables, HDD, DACs and streamers all add there own bit of 'colouration'...
I'm also beginning to suspect that, and some further experimentation in this area, now that I have access to FBA, should act as a learning curve, whereupon I'll be able to form a proper opinion on the matter.
However no matter which way it is done for me it still sound digital. I still prefer the distortion and colouration of valves and analog, not the squeaky clean precision of 011010101 and transistors...
To an extent I agree, as digital will always be digital, and analogue, analogue: both have their sonic advantages and disadvantages.
However, what I can tell you (and you know how good my T/T sounds), is that when the Pi/IQ-Audio DAC are 'on it', and fed a top-notch 24-bit high-res recording, the result gets 98% of the way to what the Techy achieves, playing mint, audiophile vinyl pressings - and look at the cost difference!! ;)
Marco.
hey Marco, pass this guide on to Duncan, see post by DanStephens. He gives a quick "tutorial" on how to edit the spopd file with nano (the text editor) .. if you are on a PC get the "putty" console to access your pi (ssh root@volumio.local or ssh root@ip-number-here-of-rpi, then enter "volumio" as password. Then sudo nano /etc/spopd.conf which basically invoques the text editor to open the spopd.conf file in the /etc folder.) . ... If you are on Mac search the program "Terminal" and do the same.
https://github.com/volumio/Volumio-WebUI/issues/58
14246
Cheers, Roops! :thumbsup:
Marco.
I'm glad you've embraced streaming Marco, good on you for trying it, my 'epiphany' moment was back in 2005 with the SqueezeBox MK1 when it was indistinguishable in SQ from my CD5/FlatCapII with just the addition of a linear PSU.
Cheers, Neal. It had to be done sometime, and I'm really enjoying it :)
however, streaming still has a bit of a way to go to be truly plug-n-play IMHO. If you are not at all computer literate the simplest of issues like your Spotify one above means you have to be reliant on others to get it working….current solutions are close but there's no cigar available yet.
I completely agree. The Pi/Volumio set-up is about the simplest yet, but as you say, it still requires some computer knowledge to set it up right in the first place and/or make any significant adjustments to how it operates.
The whole FBA process, and operation of the associated hardware, still needs 'dumbing down' and simplifying for those who aren't computer literate. After all, the latter shouldn't have to be a skill learned by a music enthusiast, simply to enjoy her or her tunes.
Marco.
The whole FBA process, and operation of the associated hardware, still needs 'dumbing down' and simplifying for those who aren't computer literate. After all, the latter shouldn't have to be a skill learned by a music enthusiast, simply to enjoy her or her tunes.
Marco.
don't forget that the software (Volumio) is free and evolving permanently, supported by a small army of volunteers ... the open source approach has many advantages and some drawbacks unfortunately. But I think the positives far outweigh the negatives... Once you get your little Pi running you won't need to change anything for a while :)
ps: using a "terminal" to type some Linux commands is no big deal. It's just quite a primitive way to tell Linux what you want :cool:
don't forget that the software (Volumio) is free and evolving permanently, supported by a small army of volunteers ... the open source approach has many advantages and some drawbacks unfortunately. But I think the positives far outweigh the negatives... Once you get your little Pi running you won't need to change anything for a while :)
All undoubtedly true, especially the latter :)
It's just getting Spotify up and running. As a (hard-drive) music steamer, however, it's perfect!
Marco.
Re not owning - I wasn't suggesting ditch your physical media - I have quite a few LPs and CDs too and won't get rid of them. CDs have all been ripped though, pretty much.
What I am saying is once you are paying £20/month for CD quality streaming, you lose your incentive to buy physical media. Having said that, I still do, just not anywhere near as much. Sometimes there are incentives to buy physical formats e.g. the latest Steven Wilson on Blu-Ray.
It is very dependant on getting streaming working well. I have just bought a Wi-Fi extender that has improved my listening room feed. A starved data stream will sound naff - rather like there's some vague mistracking going on, or even break up/stop entirely.
Good luck and welcome to the future - now, LOL.
Ethernet cables can change the sound, for better or worse thats up to you, your ears and your system...there I said it! :)
I have these throughout my network, imo improves things audio wise between the router, the Transporter and my server.
Decided on these after taking a punt on one and sitting down to listen. Much cheapness, fit n forget.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003CL1E9K?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
Now ordered, but through ebay, with free postage:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Duronic-Black-10m-CAT6a-FTP-Professional-Gold-Headed-Shielded-Network-Cable-/171728903258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27fbd71c5a
This stuff appears to have a good 'pedigree', you've recommended it, and it's cheap enough to 'write-off' if it's no better than the Maplin's Cat5e I'm using now. Due to arrive tomorrow, so I shall report the results! :)
Marco.
What I am saying is once you are paying £20/month for CD quality streaming, you lose your incentive to buy physical media.
I doubt it, because I love mooching around charity shops for second-hand CDs and vinyl, as well as supporting my local record shop in Wrexham, who sells second-hand vinyl and CDs. It's one of my favourite pastimes, so that's not gonna change! ;)
I'd rather just use Spotify (if I can get it working), for alerting me to new music, and spend the tenner saved a month on 10 x £1 second-hand CDs from my local shop. Then I can rip the ones I want to my hard-drive and stream them. I'm afraid that we just have a different mentality on this matter, muchacho.
It is very dependant on getting streaming working well. I have just bought a Wi-Fi extender that has improved my listening room feed. A starved data stream will sound naff - rather like there's some vague mistracking going on, or even break up/stop entirely.
Indeed - and here it works flawlessly and sounds fab, so I have no issues on that score.
Good luck and welcome to the future - now, LOL.
Cheers - I just do my own thing, mate (what suits me at any given time), and worry not about anything else! :cool:
Marco.
No not really. You have the mentality I had.
Time will tell you are free to do whatever you want - I don't care just trying to help:)
No one likes to be told what is best. Just keep messing and enjoy.
Just keep messing and enjoy
that's the spirit
:cool:
No not really. You have the mentality I had.
Time will tell you are free to do whatever you want - I don't care just trying to help:)
I know you're just trying to help, and that's the way I'm taking it, but you don't know what I'm like when it comes to things like this. I prefer to own my music collection, and I also love the process of (physically) shopping for it.
To grossly reduce that activity in favour of paying monthly for music downloads, would be about as likely as me going from eating home-made pasta to Heinz spaghetti! In short, it ain't gonna happen :ner:
Marco.
No not really. You have the mentality I had.
Time will tell you are free to do whatever you want - I don't care just trying to help:)
No one likes to be told what is best. Just keep messing and enjoy.
Damn, so I shouldn't have posted 'wait until you hear what JRiver, a specialised media PC & a USB to SPDIF front end can do to your Sony Marco'. ;P
The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 17:59
I must admit... simply downloading music and not physically owning it (or physically looking for it) is one of my fears for the future of music.
Ownership counts for a lot with me so to still own the source product makes much more sense.
+1 (with bells on). Some things matter much more than mere convenience or moving with the times.
Marco.
Damn, so I shouldn't have posted 'wait until you hear what JRiver, a specialised media PC & a USB to SPDIF front end can do to your Sony Marco'. ;P
:lolsign:
Aye!
Marco.
:lolsign:
Aye!
Marco.
I'll bring my Halide Bridge USB to SPDIF & power supply along when I visit, it'll interface with the Raspberry Pi without the need for drivers. Your Sony has two inputs anyway, so can switch with CD & file-based audio of the same. :)
+1 (with bells on). Some things matter much more than mere convenience or moving with the times.
Marco.
Tell that to your average 15 year old...
Nice rare vinyl I can see the nicety of owning that.
But CDs? They just occupy space and once on a hard drive that's backed up I'd say they are more freakin' reliable anyway. I HATE optical drives. They are a constant source of non-working with all discs pain. And they do not last in an awful lot of casea and become so outdated they cannot be replaced.
Just my angle. Respect it I respect yours:)
My wife has just got a sonic jewelery cleaner. Apparently it can be used to clean CDs. I wonder about cartridges? Diamond could fall of I guess... that'd be fun. Not! Might work though but conventional methods are best I suspect.
I love CD physical media, I guess it's what I grew up with.
We are currently going through what vinyl went through in the 80s - I picked up all of Kruder & Dorfmeister's back-catalogue & spin-off projects for £16 incl. P&P a couple of weeks ago - CD, tape, DAT, whatever, physical media has its appeal. :)
I must admit... simply downloading music and not physically owning it (or physically looking for it) is one of my fears for the future of music.
Me too Jo, despite switching over to FBA 4 years ago, I still buy CDs and will only buy a download if there is no other possible way of getting the music, which sadly is increasing. What really pisses me off greatly about the majority of downloads, is the lack of any artwork and liner notes - I like to have the lyrics, I want to know who the musicians are and who wrote the songs and every other bit of information you would have, if you bought either the CD or LP. And the worst of the worst are low bit rate downloads, I will never buy those.
Tell that to your average 15 year old...
I don't give a flying f*ck what your average 15 year old thinks. It has no relevance whatsoever in my life.
Nice rare vinyl I can see the nicety of owning that.
Good. I can see the nicety of owning all forms of vinyl, which is why I have so much of it, and will continue to add to it.
But CDs? They just occupy space and once on a hard drive that's backed up I'd say they are more freakin' reliable anyway.
Well, I'm not as big a fan of CDs, but I still like to own the music I have. If it's on CD, then so be it. The racks of CDs in my listening room also act as a form of passive room treatment, and improve the acoustics of the room - I'm serious...
Just my angle. Respect it I respect yours:)
I do, but you're one still harping on about this. Why, I've no idea! :scratch:
You and I are different people - respect it.
Marco.
My wife has just got a sonic jewelery cleaner. Apparently it can be used to clean CDs. I wonder about cartridges? Diamond could fall of I guess... that'd be fun. Not! Might work though but conventional methods are best I suspect.
Ultrasonic cleaners just sort the surface, they are much more effective with clearing dirt out of jewellery mountings like with engagement rings. Don't use an ultrasonic cleaner with heavily included (black stuff inside the stone) diamonds or other stones that aren't ruby or sapphire or your wife may find she cracks a stone!
They also need water to work (turn it on without and it'll die after time), so unless you want to submerge your cartridge it's not got any real HiFi application LOL!
I don't give a flying f*ck what your average 15 year old thinks. It has no relevance whatsoever in my life.
Good. I can see the nicety of owning all forms of vinyl, which is why I have so much of it, and will continue to add to it.
Well, I'm not as big a fan of CDs, but I still like to own the music I have. If it's on CD, then so be it.
I do, but you're one still harping on about this. Why, I've no idea! :scratch:
You and I are different people - respect it.
Marco.
I thought you were into discussing it.
Have and beer and chill out dude. No need to tell me to respect it I already told you I did!!!
I won't post for a good while Marco.
Cheers.
Oh for goodness sake, get a grip! :doh:
You're the one who's kept going on about signing up to Tidal and trying to tell me that I will be doing things your way eventually, when you don't know me at all. I'm perfectly chilled.
If you had simply said 'no worries', agreed to disagree and moved on, about 5 posts back, we wouldn't be at this point now.
Marco.
I must admit... simply downloading music and not physically owning it (or physically looking for it) is one of my fears for the future of music.
Ownership counts for a lot with me so to still own the source product makes much more sense.
Have you seen the price of some of those 24bit downloads Jo:eek: Shared file stuff on HDD etc are not always what you think your getting either. Some stuff purporting to be 24bit or DSD or even 16 bit are in fact far lower bit rates. :eek: When you buy the physical stuff you can be sure what your getting:)
Oh for goodness sake, get a grip! :doh:
You're the one who's kept going on about signing up to Tidal and trying to tell me that I will be doing things your way eventually, when you don't know me at all. I'm perfectly chilled.
If you had simply said 'no worries', agreed to disagree and moved on, about 5 posts back, we wouldn't be at this point now.
Marco.
Don't worry I'm not that pissed in any way really. I wasn't aware you were getting that miffed, that is all.
I'll still take a break for a bit I have been posting too much recently anyway.
Ta ta - for now:)
Fine, but I wasn't 'miffed' at all until you mentioned rather petulantly about stopping posting, which was a total over-reaction, over a situation of your own making....
Anyway, we'll leave it at that.
Marco.
relax, please ! :cool:
for my part, I have given up all my LP's and CD's and ripped the lot to a NAS. Initially because I had "space" problems. I couldn't store the stuff anymore. Having services like Spotify and other Internet based services, costing about the price of a CD / month gives me a limitless library of music to discover with the SQ getting better over time. Ownership vs. Discovery. But if you have the space to store all your LP's and CD's you can have the best of both ! Discover stuff on the Internet then buy the CD or LP at your local music store (maybe). Great times.
But if you have the space to store all your LP's and CD's you can have the best of both ! Discover stuff on the Internet then buy the CD or LP at your local music store (maybe). Great times.
Indeed, which is precisely my situation and what I'm doing, but for some bizarre reason Justin just wouldn't accept. As they say, 'there's nowt as queer as folks'! :)
You might not have heard that one in Switzerland ;)
Marco.
The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 19:12
Me too Jo, despite switching over to FBA 4 years ago, I still buy CDs and will only buy a download if there is no other possible way of getting the music, which sadly is increasing. What really pisses me off greatly about the majority of downloads, is the lack of any artwork and liner notes - I like to have the lyrics, I want to know who the musicians are and who wrote the songs and every other bit of information you would have, if you bought either the CD or LP. And the worst of the worst are low bit rate downloads, I will never buy those.
Have you seen the price of some of those 24bit downloads Jo:eek: Shared file stuff on HDD etc are not always what you think your getting either. Some stuff purporting to be 24bit or DSD or even 16 bit are in fact far lower bit rates. :eek: When you buy the physical stuff you can be sure what your getting:)
Yep... This is one of the reasons why (IMO) vinyl has such a big resurgence. You can hold it and look at it. Download and streaming is very convenient and if we can get it sounding as good as a top end transport/dac combo then that's fab... but it's still nothing... there is nothing there... it's physically bereft of life... it's a dead download. :)
Yep... This is one of the reasons why (IMO) vinyl has such a big resurgence. You can hold it and look at it. Download and streaming is very convenient and if we can get it sounding as good as a top end transport/dac combo then that's fab... but it's still nothing... there is nothing there... it's physically bereft of life... it's a dead download. :)
Another benefit of buying vinyl is they often throw a CD in for good measure. You never get the vinyl thrown in when you buy a CD::lol:
The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 19:31
Another benefit of buying vinyl is they often throw a CD in for good measure. You never get the vinyl thrown in when you buy a CD::lol:
lol.. your right there.
Yep... This is one of the reasons why (IMO) vinyl has such a big resurgence. You can hold it and look at it. Download and streaming is very convenient and if we can get it sounding as good as a top end transport/dac combo then that's fab... but it's still nothing... there is nothing there... it's physically bereft of life... it's a dead download. :)
sorry, with all due respect, I don't quit agree. What is more important : the spirit of the music or the ownership of a piece of vinyl or plastic of which the content is only lent to the end-user for a specific usage by law ?
I don't see downloads as "dead", they let me discover more music and artists.
Indeed, which is precisely my situation and what I'm doing, but for some bizarre reason Justin just wouldn't accept. As they say, 'there's nowt as queer as folks'! :)
You might not have heard that one in Switzerland ;)
Marco.
sorry, never heard of that but got the definition after a quick search.
UK informal saying: said to emphasize that people sometimes behave in a very strange way...
I guess we all do at times.
Marco - having got interested in FBA, but not yet done anything about it, I came accross this thread.
I have read large chunks of it but find very little detail about what is involved in the way data is handled that makes this system in anyway better than any other.
The number of acronyms means I have to keep going and finding out what is being talked about.
As I see it the Rassperry Pi is a small computer to which you have attached external drives by cat5 cable (your music library) how is this streaming?
I can not see any hard drive on the Pi (got me at it now) does it store its operating system on a flash drive and what is the operating system?
The on board DAC looks tiny, are you just taking the analogue output from this to your amp?
What type of data is the DAC working with and what is the interface (transfer method) USB bus?
The more I look at FBA the less I want to dip my toe in, seems there is so much happening I don't know which way to jump, eg DSD/1bit, kernel streaming etc.
I have an old desk top computer sat with iTunes and about 500 gig of lossles music on it. Its not wired into my system at the moment and rather than bother with it I was looking to build a state of the art FBA system. Like all things audio, it would seem there are many roads to choose from and no consensus on which is best.
The argument over which interface software or library software to use seems to me to be a sideline and has little to do with sound quality and is more about convenience and personal preference. The whole subject is complex and hard to keep pace with in my opinion and detracts from enjoying the music.
Still on the fence.:scratch:
The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 21:06
sorry, with all due respect, I don't quit agree. What is more important : the spirit of the music or the ownership of a piece of vinyl or plastic of which the content is only lent to the end-user for a specific usage by law ?
I don't see downloads as "dead", they let me discover more music and artists.
ooh, ello... lol.. Well, 'with all due respect', downloads don't allow me to discover music and new artists... you can do that via youtube, bandcamp, going to gigs, asking on forums etc. more than anything. If I do find an artist I like, I buy the physical media, it's as simple as that. The downloads just don't interest me... they are sterile to me.
Each to their own ol chap! :)
sure, I meant streaming files which is, I suppose a form of download. Each to his own as you say.
Just a few pic-choors of the FBA set-up, chez Marco (not that computer audio looks like much)....
NAS box (containing 2TB of choons, many of which are high-res 24-bit):
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/7nz2a0.jpg
Ze Pi (with IQ-Audio DAC inside):
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/x6LKRY.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/nVdDrl.jpg
Volumio (with Macbook Pro):
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/YqLKIm.jpg
:)
Marco.
The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 21:19
sure, I meant streaming files which is, I suppose a form of download. Each to his own as you say.
Ah... righto. Terminology eh... lol
Streaming is cool when it works well. The Pi thingie is interesting me though I must admit.
What will happen to CD though?... In a way it seems a shame for it to just vanish like Cassettes etc did.
The Black Adder
23-03-2015, 21:20
Looks cool, Marco.
Do you know what the little microswitch is for on the dac?
Have you seen the price of some of those 24bit downloads Jo:eek: Shared file stuff on HDD etc are not always what you think your getting either. Some stuff purporting to be 24bit or DSD or even 16 bit are in fact far lower bit rates. :eek: When you buy the physical stuff you can be sure what your getting:)
Indeed, there's been a couple of threads over on PFM about HiRes files it seems some are not really HiRes at all!
Marco - having got interested in FBA, but not yet done anything about it, I came accross this thread.
I have read large chunks of it but find very little detail about what is involved in the way data is handled that makes this system in anyway better than any other.
The number of acronyms means I have to keep going and finding out what is being talked about.
As I see it the Rassperry Pi is a small computer to which you have attached external drives by cat5 cable (your music library) how is this streaming?
I can not see any hard drive on the Pi (got me at it now) does it store its operating system on a flash drive and what is the operating system?
The on board DAC looks tiny, are you just taking the analogue output from this to your amp?
What type of data is the DAC working with and what is the interface (transfer method) USB bus?
The more I look at FBA the less I want to dip my toe in, seems there is so much happening I don't know which way to jump, eg DSD/1bit, kernel streaming etc.
I have an old desk top computer sat with iTunes and about 500 gig of lossles music on it. Its not wired into my system at the moment and rather than bother with it I was looking to build a state of the art FBA system. Like all things audio, it would seem there are many roads to choose from and no consensus on which is best.
The argument over which interface software or library software to use seems to me to be a sideline and has little to do with sound quality and is more about convenience and personal preference. The whole subject is complex and hard to keep pace with in my opinion and detracts from enjoying the music.
Still on the fence.:scratch:
The price of a Raspi with a DAC on it is around 100$. You can add a HD (USB) or a NAS (network) to put your library on. The Ethernet cable is to connect the Raspi to your network. The DAC is usually connected to the Raspi via I2S. The RCA out from the DAC goes into your volume control / amp. Not much risk involved IMO.
I enjoy music in whatever form it's delivered - I also take photos and have done for along as I've been collecting music.
People tell me that both of my pursuits can now be taken care of by immersing myself in the cloud and bunging it all there and if I really want a physical copy storage is cheap as chips and I can take my pick. I have been doing both for some time now and both have let me down badly more times than I care to mention. Ever tried accessing a file from 't web when the servers, farms or whatever are 'closed for maintenance'? - or tried recovering files from a hard drive or a ripped CD that has inexplicably given up the ghost with no warning? - or tried accessing a file in a format that your latest OS upgrade decided not to support?
Of course you have - we all have !!!
I have every photo I took on real film (positive or negative) stored in books and boxes that I can look at or print at will and I have LPs that I bought decades ago that I can play whenever I want - a power cut notwithstanding :lol:
Digital is fine and I have no problem with it and I have embraced computers willingly since I first bought a Sinclair ZX81 and tried to get it to display a ping pong game - but to pretend that it is an unfailing 'problem-free' nirvana and 'the only possible way forward' is sticking your head in the sand big time ..... the future of technology is never as certain as we may think (and I've lived through too many 'next big things' to think otherwise...)
walpurgis
23-03-2015, 21:31
Nice summary Mike. I agree with what you've said. :thumbsup:
tubehunter
23-03-2015, 21:40
Looks cool, Marco.
Do you know what the little microswitch is for on the dac?
HAT EEPROM Write Enable
Hi Dunc,
How do I get Spotify to work? Can you give me a bell, mate? Either that, or PM me :)
Marco.
HAT EEPROM Write Enable
Well, thats cleared that up :scratch:
Just a few pic-choors of the FBA set-up, chez Marco (not that computer audio looks like much)....
....
:)
Marco.
Marco, you hava a Mac ? Nice. Try the Terminal, come on :eyebrows:
What will happen to CD though?... In a way it seems a shame for it to just vanish like Cassettes etc did.
CD's ? Dinosaurs :lol:
I cannot say that I miss the Cassettes or for that matter the old computer floppy discs. But they had charm ;)
CD's ? Dinosaurs :lol:
I cannot say that I miss the Cassettes or for that matter the old computer floppy discs. But they had charm ;)
Hell, I still use my wind up Gramophones. Cd's will never die out just as vinyl wont...........I hope
Marco, you hava a Mac ? Nice. Try the Terminal, come on :eyebrows:
Yup, brand new Macbook Pro with 15" Retina screen... What do you mean by 'The Terminal'? :)
Marco.
A nice choice of musak anyways...Albert Rules man:D
Yup, brand new Macbook Pro with 15" Retina screen... What do you mean by 'The Terminal'? :)
Marco.
I knew you would ask.. :)
it is the app you needed to connect to your Pi. Find the app in the apps > utilities folder or just search "terminal" with the search function. Start it up and type
ssh root@volumio.local
"volumio" is the password
et voilą, you are logged into your Pi and can start typing Unix / Linux commands as per one of my earlier posts to edit the config (configuration) file you need to to get Spotify to work properly
:eek:
ps igotta the same computa
Marco - having got interested in FBA, but not yet done anything about it, I came accross this thread.
I have read large chunks of it but find very little detail about what is involved in the way data is handled that makes this system in anyway better than any other.
The number of acronyms means I have to keep going and finding out what is being talked about.
As I see it the Rassperry Pi is a small computer to which you have attached external drives by cat5 cable (your music library) how is this streaming?
I can not see any hard drive on the Pi (got me at it now) does it store its operating system on a flash drive and what is the operating system?
The on board DAC looks tiny, are you just taking the analogue output from this to your amp?
What type of data is the DAC working with and what is the interface (transfer method) USB bus?
The more I look at FBA the less I want to dip my toe in, seems there is so much happening I don't know which way to jump, eg DSD/1bit, kernel streaming etc.
I have an old desk top computer sat with iTunes and about 500 gig of lossles music on it. Its not wired into my system at the moment and rather than bother with it I was looking to build a state of the art FBA system. Like all things audio, it would seem there are many roads to choose from and no consensus on which is best.
The argument over which interface software or library software to use seems to me to be a sideline and has little to do with sound quality and is more about convenience and personal preference. The whole subject is complex and hard to keep pace with in my opinion and detracts from enjoying the music.
Still on the fence.:scratch:
Hi Ken,
Those questions are best directed at Duncan :)
Marco.
I knew you would ask.. :)
it is the app you needed to connect to your Pi. Find the app in the apps > utilities folder or just search "terminal" with the search function. Start it up and type
ssh root@volumio.local
"volumio" is the password
et voilą, you are logged into your Pi and can start typing Unix / Linux commands as per one of my earlier posts to edit the config (configuration) file you need to to get Spotify to work properly
:eek:
ps igotta the same computa
Erm, thanks for the info (and it is very useful), but it's not something that I'd tackle, as I don't have a scooby-doo. However, Dunc will see it now, so he should be able to do what you say on my laptop :)
Marco.
no problem ! hope you can sort it ASAP
btw. this was the post with the instructions (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?37480-Diehard-dinosaur-finally-succumbs-to-the-joys-of-FBA-enter-the-Raspberry-Pi-2!!&p=631458#post631458)
Marco, it just occurred to me that you can also stream from the Spotify app on your Mac to the Pi by selecting the "volumio" airplay speaker in your sound settings (on the Mac) the shortcut is to alt-click the little loudspeaker icon on the top right of your screen and choose "volumio". Only condition to do this is that your Pi and your Mac are on the same (wi-fi, cabled) network.
Also make sure that you have set the sound quality in Spotify to "extreme".
14248
Oh, that's interesting! Just tried that, and it works.... Dunno if it'll sound as good that way, as the other method I've been trying to use, but at least I can hear Spotify through the system now until I sort it out properly.
Cheers, Roops - top man! :cool:
Marco.
r100 - Thanks for the info.
Interesting, chaps... I'll let the streaming system settle in a little (as I've noticed that the Pi-DAC has improved over the last few days, perhaps due to 'burn-in'), and get the linear PSU sorted before messing around with Ethernet cables.
What's the difference then between Cat5, 6 or 7? Speed of data transmission, or what? And are there 'audiophile' versions of Ethernet cables available? :)
Marco.
There is no difference between Cat 5e, 6, 7 etc. they can all handle massively more than music signals. It's like saying a drop of water will fall faster through the middle of a more hollow wide pipe than through a less hollow wide pipe. :P
I get ya, Neil. Can't dispute what you're saying. However, I've got this other Ethernet cable coming tomorrow (the one that Gary recommended), so we'll see whether or not despite what you're saying if it *sounds* different to what I'm using now.
For me, it's all about plugging it in and using yer lugs. If it sounds better, then it is better, and if doesn't, then it isn't - simples! For £12 it ain't gonna break the bank to find out :cool:
Btw, Rupert, I thought that I could only control the volume of Spotify via the speaker icon image on the Mac, but I can use the level control on Volumio too, so all is good, and it sounds fab!
The only thing lacking is having access to all the info I need from Spotify (artist, song title, etc), and the ability to make sound adjustments, on the one interface, as would be the case if Spotify was successfully installed on Volumio. At the moment, I have to switch back and forth between Volumio and the Spotify website to select tracks and use the volume control, but I can live with that for the time being.
Thanks again for the tip! :thumbsup:
Marco.
walpurgis
24-03-2015, 00:14
All 'smoke & mirrors' to me. :)
No doubt I'll get around to something like it eventually. Technology doesn't scare me, but I'm lazy about changing my ways!
Ali Tait
24-03-2015, 05:28
Marco - having got interested in FBA, but not yet done anything about it, I came accross this thread.
I have read large chunks of it but find very little detail about what is involved in the way data is handled that makes this system in anyway better than any other.
The number of acronyms means I have to keep going and finding out what is being talked about.
As I see it the Rassperry Pi is a small computer to which you have attached external drives by cat5 cable (your music library) how is this streaming?
I can not see any hard drive on the Pi (got me at it now) does it store its operating system on a flash drive and what is the operating system?
The on board DAC looks tiny, are you just taking the analogue output from this to your amp?
What type of data is the DAC working with and what is the interface (transfer method) USB bus?
The more I look at FBA the less I want to dip my toe in, seems there is so much happening I don't know which way to jump, eg DSD/1bit, kernel streaming etc.
I have an old desk top computer sat with iTunes and about 500 gig of lossles music on it. Its not wired into my system at the moment and rather than bother with it I was looking to build a state of the art FBA system. Like all things audio, it would seem there are many roads to choose from and no consensus on which is best.
The argument over which interface software or library software to use seems to me to be a sideline and has little to do with sound quality and is more about convenience and personal preference. The whole subject is complex and hard to keep pace with in my opinion and detracts from enjoying the music.
Still on the fence.:scratch:
Don't know much about the Pi, but yes it stores it's operating system on an SD card. It uses Linux.
I guess you could say it's streaming as the data is delivered in packets from the storage device to the Pi via the ethernet cable. This could also be done with a wireless dongle via your router, handy if you wanted to use it in different rooms.
Ali Tait
24-03-2015, 05:32
Forgot to say, one possible reason it may sound better than cd is that you have removed the error correction present in cd replay. No doubt there are many variables, hence the wide range of opinions.
One good thing with the Pi, it's cheap, and if you find it's not for you then it will be easily sold with little loss.
BTH K10A
24-03-2015, 05:43
Whilst I appreciate the convenience of FBA it's not something I'd use on a day to day basis as for me it hifi as a hobby is a much broader experience and FBA takes away far more than it gives. I get as much satisfaction and enjoyment from the hunting and collecting of records as I do from the very tactile process of playing them.
The Black Adder
24-03-2015, 07:17
HAT EEPROM Write Enable
Ah.. righto, that's good. So it can be flashed... they think of everything :)
Whilst I appreciate the convenience of FBA it's not something I'd use on a day to day basis as for me it hifi as a hobby is a much broader experience and FBA takes away far more than it gives. I get as much satisfaction and enjoyment from the hunting and collecting of records as I do from the very tactile process of playing them.
Hi Andy,
Believe me, I know where you're coming from, and the last bit applies to me every bit as much as it does you.
However, at the end of the day, an FBA device is just another source of music, the same as a turntable or CD player. Therefore, in my system, it just sits there in the room, the same as the rest of the kit, as a tiny little box on top of my DAC, so what's the problem? It's not taking away anything.... I still use my T/T and CDP just as much as before.
It certainly adds plenty, in terms of benefits, and for less than I've paid in the past for half a case of wine!
I now have 2TB worth of music (thousands of albums) I never had before, and the ability to access it from anywhere in the house, or outside in the garden, all at the touch of a button. The convenience it provides, however, is outweighed by the benefits it brings to your enjoyment of music - and how it encourages you to listen to even MORE music...
I can sit downstairs in the lounge, where the Celestion 66s are, and whilst sipping a nice glass of wine in front of the coal fire, explore a huge library of music (superb sounding hi-res 24-bit stuff; resolution that is beyond the capability of Red Book CD), and add to that library at any time by ripping it from my existing CD, or even vinyl, collection.
None of that detracts in any way whatsoever from my enjoyment of vinyl, or collecting records - so what's not to like? :)
Marco.
Btw, Rupert, I thought that I could only control the volume of Spotify via the speaker icon image on the Mac, but I can use the level control on Volumio too, so all is good, and it sounds fab!
The only thing lacking is having access to all the info I need from Spotify (artist, song title, etc), and the ability to make sound adjustments, on the one interface, as would be the case if Spotify was successfully installed on Volumio. At the moment, I have to switch back and forth between Volumio and the Spotify website to select tracks and use the volume control, but I can live with that for the time being.
Marco.
Great ! I'm not sure I understand that you have to switch between Volumio and Spotify ?
Normally, to use Spotify from your Mac you only should have to use the Spotify application. For serious listening, leave the volume on the Mac and Spotify app at 100% and use the your amplifier's volume knob. The Volumio interface is for handling your NAS music, web radios, etc. and of course Spotify when you get it working on the Volumio web interface. But IMHO it is not as convenient as the real Spotify app. The Volumio team are working to integrate Spotify Connect... but thats another story :)
One important thing you should do in the Spotify app is set the "Music Quality" to "Extreme" to get the full 320kbs/sec.
Cheers
ru
PS note when you stream your music from the Mac over Airplay, it will be down sampled to 41kHz (16 bit I think). When you play the same directly from the Volumio interface it goes straight to the DAC without ans d/s. On my system, I have to struggle to hear any difference but your system is probably much more resolving and you could hear some difference. Oh no, now I have said it ;)
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