View Full Version : 'Analog Dinosaur' succumbs to the joys of FBA : enter Raspberry Pi 2/IQ-Audio DAC+!!
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Fantastic that worked a treat, many thanks guys !!
Thank you so much everyone - i have taken out the sd card and added the command line that you gave me and am now adding the files to the hdd, i will let you know how i get on.
The Black Adder
21-05-2015, 18:36
Does anyone know if our IQ Audio Dac + cards can play DSD .dsf files?
Thanks
Stephen
It certainly can... I've been playing .dsf files today. Sounds spanking.
...
echo max_usb_current=1 >> /boot/config.txt
Hey, this is great, much easier :thumbsup:
git a plan for a linear psu for the pi. my aquvox linear needs an adapter to make it fit but should pro ide all the power needed....acually it will neex 2 adaptors but can get them cheap so no great loss if it doesnt work.
git a plan for a linear psu for the pi. my aquvox linear needs an adapter to make it fit but should pro ide all the power needed....acually it will neex 2 adaptors but can get them cheap so no great loss if it doesnt work.
Got the 2 adaptors ordered so will let you all know if it works :)
Ok, so after reading this thread I decided it was time to order a pi2 - primarily to replace my hacked ATV1 (crystalbuntu os & HD graphics card replacing wifi adapter) multimedia centre, but thought I'd add an iq-dac+ too. I ordered 2 SD cards, one of OSMC (dedicated os for Kodi multimedia centre), one for Volumio for audio playback. I am not detecting a sound quality difference between Volumio (using dac+) and OSMC (using hdmi audio out), and neither compare to playing the same source via my Naim CDI. Via Volumio & OSMC I'm playing same iTunes ripped 320kbps files - is there a way of ripping to higher quality? And what AlSA settings should I be making to ensure highest quality? Both dac+ and hdmi output sounds good, but soundstage and imaging are poor compared to cd playback.
Thanks, Richard
You can rip to WAV in iTunes...you need to tweak the export settings from preferences and select WAV.
I found the sound stage improved by setting up sampling to 176.4/16 using SOX high quality...
Dunno if its possible to do easily but will try and see if I can connect mine to the laptop upstairs' music files on another hdd via the router. It'll either work first time or I will probably give up. Never been good at networking
You can rip to WAV in iTunes...you need to tweak the export settings from preferences and select WAV.
I found the sound stage improved by setting up sampling to 176.4/16 using SOX high quality...
Where do I set the up sampling please? And what are the important alsamixer settings? Think I have master volume one notch up, filter and other two volumes as default (0). I also disabled volume control in the Volumio web interface.
The current RB3 of OSMC does not recognize the dac+ natively, so I'll need to go into the Linux OS to set it up. But like I say - I detect no sq difference using Volumio via dac+ and its line outs straight into my pre, and OSMC feeding audio over hdmi into TV and TV line outs into the pre. And while both are acceptable, neither match sq playing the original cd.
I'm hoping I've missed something in setting up the dac+.
Thanks, Richard
I'm very surprised you can't detect the difference between the headphone o/p of the RPi vs IQAudio DAC...there really is no comparison! Something is seriously amiss....
I'm currently running Moode so the menus are slightly different vs Volumio but the setting for resampling should be under the MPD or Audio menu. You can also set the DAC volume control to software, hardware or disabled, mine is disabled as I use an external passive pre. Avoid software as it will reduce bit depth/
The alasmixer settings where covered earlier in the thread but you may never find them as it has got quite big! However, the manual is here: http://www.iqaudio.com/downloads/IQaudIO.pdf
See P19...from the manual:
• “PCM” or “Playback Digital” is the master volume control 0..100%
• “Playback” sets the maximum output to be 1vrms (0% = +0db) OR 2vrms (100% = +6db gain)
• “Playback Boost” gives an additional gain of 0.8db and should similarly be set to 100%
Setting PCM to 86% is effectively 0db IE: no volume boost or cut
Playback is a toggle; either the DAC outputs 1v RMS or 2v RMS. Industry standard is 2v RMS
Playback Boost gives additional volume.
You may find the volume is lower than expected in use so either set the PCM control higher or just disable volume control completely ( sets to 100%) and use a pre-amp instead.
Thanks - I check later. Think I have it set to output 1v rms currently, and pcm set to 87% & dab volume disabled in Volumio
I havent done any mucking about with settings at all.:scratch: just using it as it is or came to me. there is a vol control on volumio which i set at 97 normally..seems to be ok for me but next time Gary is over i will pick his brain
Sorry to nip in here, Neal...
You may find the volume is lower than expected in use so either set the PCM control higher or just disable volume control completely ( sets to 100%) and use a pre-amp instead.
Not quite true, mate. Although it'll 'set' to 100%, the level will default to the last used PCM setting. Therefore, if that was 86, 90 or whatever, that's the input level that will have been applied, when the volume control has been disabled, even though it says '100' on the dial :)
Marco.
The Black Adder
24-05-2015, 10:44
Can anyone recommend the best (and cheapest) handheld Android device to use Volumio etc on? I'm looking for something small but with a decent enough sized screen to use.
Can anyone recommend the best (and cheapest) handheld Android device to use Volumio etc on? I'm looking for something small but with a decent enough sized screen to use.
Any of the nexus clones with 7inch screen from Asus will do the job. Mine was 90 quid.
Can anyone recommend the best (and cheapest) handheld Android device to use Volumio etc on? I'm looking for something small but with a decent enough sized screen to use.
i normally just use my lg but i tried an Amazon fire tablet and it worked just as well. think it has a 7 inch screen. . .
Aligauld
24-05-2015, 11:39
Hi there,
There's also the Tesco Hudl thingy which is getting good reviews and if you're a Clubcard person then you can use the boost voucher to get money off.
Cheers,
Alistair
The Black Adder
24-05-2015, 13:02
Nice one.. thanks. :)
hornucopia
24-05-2015, 13:52
Wow! THIS topic got going fast! (The whole digital caboodle one)
It'll be an interesting ride. watch out for Active (including dac plus room adjusters....) speakers soon?
The Black Adder
24-05-2015, 17:09
Guys, which is the best size screen to go for? - generally for ease of control really.
Aligauld
24-05-2015, 19:07
Hi there,
I find it really easy to control and use on my iPad Mini which is 7.9"
Hope this helps
Cheers,
Alistair
PaulStewart
24-05-2015, 20:00
Sorry to say this but...... Did an extended listening test with a RPI and IQ DAC and a MacMini running Audirvana 2.0 via my up-sampling 24/192 DAC. The sound was to my ears and to those of the others present, quite a bit better in terms of smoothness, detail and dynamics from the Mac. There was a slight grnuality from the RPI based system that was not there on the Apple based system. We used the same source files and streams for both systems. The thing that aced it for the Mac was the ease of use and set up, the whole thing is plug and play and can be controlled from the iPad or iPhone with ease. The RPI took about three hours to set up, is awkward to shut down and get to work with NAS. All this takes time in which I could be listening to tunes.
Hi Paul,
Each to his or her own sonic tastes (I've not heard a MacMini or your DAC), however, this:
The RPI took about three hours to set up, is awkward to shut down and get to work with NAS. All this takes time in which I could be listening to tunes.
...isn't representative of the norm. Three hours?? Were you following instructions in Swahili? :D ;)
Also, what do you mean by "awkward to shut down"? In Volumio, you simply go to Menu > Turn Off, and bob's yer aunty, the RPi shuts down in seconds!
Marco.
P.S Out of interest, how much was the DAC you used? :)
PaulStewart
24-05-2015, 20:18
P.S Out of interest, how much was the DAC you used? :)
The DAC is a prototype that I specified for a US based manufacturer, with the addition of a Class A output stage which was done with the assistance of Nigel Pearson. It was aimed at a sales price point of around £650.00. Now I'm the first to admit that is way in excess of the price of the whole RPI kit put together. Next week, I will try the Pi through the DAC and report back.
Indeed, so hardly a fair comparison.... ;)
Also, if you follow the set-up instructions posted here on this thread (or the very excellent ones on TAS, produced by Martin T), it should not take three hours to set up an RPi - far from it. Realistically, no more than 15-20 mins.
Still don't know what you mean by awkward to shut down? :scratch:
Marco.
PaulStewart
24-05-2015, 20:35
I was under the impression that if you shut it down in Volumio, it's just going into standby mode, not a true shut down, is this not the case. I'm not used to the interface and find the Mac based system easier to control. I'm the first to admit it's all personal preference however. To be honest, for CD type AIFF files, I think playing them off CD through a Red Book DAC sounds better than any file based system.
You should shut down in volumio. then when it restarts it will keep all info like ip and files etc. once it shuts down you can then unplug. when you then power on again it just starts up with everything there. I made the error of unplugging by error once and I lost all files and it selected a new ip...I am still using Dynamic ip's but it keeps the same one, or has for me
I was under the impression that if you shaut it down in Volumio, it's just going into standby mode, not a true shut down, is this not the case.
Nope, selecting 'Power Off', turns it off, in the sense of the system no longer being operational. The red light will still remain lit until you unplug the unit from the mains supply, but it's not a standby mode, as such.
To be honest, for CD type AIFF files, I think playing them off CD through a Red Book DAC sounds better than any file based system.
That's far from the case here, although my (circa £5.5k) modified Sony CDP and DAC is better in some areas, but definitely not £5.4k better!! ;)
I get the feeling (although I could be wrong) that you haven't got the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC sonically optimised, and so aren't hearing it at its absolute best. For example, have you boosted the Playback level in alsamixer, so that the DAC outputs the full 2V? Also, have you adjusted all the controls in Volumio for optimal sonic results (by switching off all unnecessary commands)?
Also bear in mind that a high-quality linear PSU raises the sonic performance of the RPi *significantly*, and at reasonable cost too, still scoring the whole shebang very highly in the 'SPPV stakes'...
Marco.
PaulStewart
24-05-2015, 20:55
I get the feeling (although I could be wrong) that you haven't got the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC sonically optimised, and so aren't hearing it at its absolute best. For example, have you boosted the Playback level in alsamixer, so that the DAC outputs the full 2V? Also, have you adjusted all the controls in Volumio for optimal sonic results (by switching off all unnecessary commands)?
Marco.
Yes I have done all this, that's what took the time :)
Ok, cool :)
Marco.
P.S When's your radio show going back on the air, or has that gone for a burton now?
Yes I have done all this, that's what took the time :)
I would agree that the set-up time can be tiresome - but once done that's it. After that starting the Pi is a breeze and should take little more time than booting up your Mac Mini, shut down ditto.
I have tried my Mac Mini 2010, outputting to various DACs via TOSLINK, using a couple of alternative players, including AudioNirvana and have to say the SQ is in every respect complete pants compared to the PI/IQaudio kit. I use WAV files on an SSD plugged into the Pi and playback is immediate and rich ... almost on a par with my other analogue sources in every respect.
Well worth the admittedly fiddly initial set up... and certainly the best bang for buck I have yet to meet
I use WAV files on an SSD plugged into the Pi and playback is immediate and rich ... almost on a par with my other analogue sources in every respect.
That's also my experience, streaming WAV (24-bit) files from the NAS, although my T/T, playing top-notch audiophile vinyl recordings, still remains notably my best sounding source. However, it should be at some SIXTY times the cost of the RPi/IQ Audio DAC!
Marco.
PaulStewart
24-05-2015, 21:37
When's your radio show going back on the air, or has that gone for a burton now?
Soon I hope, I'm currently working on a documentary about a a HiFi company which is taking up a lot of time, once the bulk of that is shot, I'll set up the syudio in the new house and get it back on. Check out the other shows on More Music Radio though, they are really good :)
Cool. Will do :)
Your other show is really missed, though! Btw, did we ever get to see pics of your system in situ in your new house? I don't recall seeing any posted on the AoS Gallery section....
Marco.
PaulStewart
24-05-2015, 22:00
Cool. Will do :)
Your other show is really missed, though! Btw, did we ever get to see pics of your system in situ in your new house? I don't recall seeing any posted on the AoS Gallery section....
Marco.
Posted a while ago HERE (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?38144-Well-the-main-room-is-finished-just-the-bedroom-and-studio-systems-to-do).
See you later, I'm going home to listen to it
Cheers, mate. Must've missed that. Enjoy! :cool:
Marco.
Sorry to nip in here, Neal...
Not quite true, mate. Although it'll 'set' to 100%, the level will default to the last used PCM setting. Therefore, if that was 86, 90 or whatever, that's the input level that will have been applied, when the volume control has been disabled, even though it says '100' on the dial :)
Marco.
Ah yes, thanks Marco, interestingly (or not) Moode defaults to 0 on the dial.
On another note for anyone interested, Moode has more resampling options. I looked at Volumio 1.55 again and its quite limited in what it offers IE: Its not possible to set 88.2 or 176.4/16 etc. or in other words an integer resampling option if your base material is 44.1
montesquieu
25-05-2015, 12:23
I had another play last night with Volumio and Moode ... got the same 'mount error (13)' with both of them trying to get a folder on the NAS mounted, while Rune Audio is playing happily. I bought a second SD card so I wouldn't muck up my Rune Audio settings. I've never managed to get a note out of either Volumio or Moode.
Has anyone ever come across and cracked this problem? Looking on the Volumio web site I see quite a few people going back to March with the same issue and no-one really getting an answer. I have checked and there appears to be no pathname bits missing that I can see, or any password issue (tried both guest and admin/password options).
On resampling ... my Audio Note DAC only goes up to 24/96, the odd higher res file I have doesn't play, does this resampling setting mean I can get it do downsample on the fly to 96kbit?
I've never managed to get anything out of Volumio at all. Though I have not seen any mount errors, as far as I can tell, everything looks OK, but there's just no sound! I have not really tried any of the other systems - maybe I'll have to give Rune a go...
Hearing all this I am more likely not to mess around ...it works so i will just leave it that way I think rather than try other options like music box etc.
was listening today b4 i put the tt on and it is pretty impressive to my old ears.
I've never managed to get anything out of Volumio at all. Though I have not seen any mount errors, as far as I can tell, everything looks OK, but there's just no sound! I have not really tried any of the other systems - maybe I'll have to give Rune a go...
Desmo
I don't think you have said to the forum how you have your Pi connected to your system, cable wise and Volumio settings wise. Perhaps that might provoke some suggestions from others using Volumio for you to try / look at.
I'm running Moode and PI-DAC+ myself but plenty use Volumio and I have used it myself via USB to an external DAC on a Pi B.
Give it a go?
Thanks - I check later. Think I have it set to output 1v rms currently, and pcm set to 87% & dab volume disabled in Volumio
OK - so still disappointed. I set output to 2v rather 1v, added the additional .8db of gain and tried pushing main output to max. I had back main output back down, sounded like I was overloading the buffer stage of the DAC+. Results a little better, but still poor compared to CD.
So I installed EAC and did a WAV based rip to try. Better and I could live with it...but I then put the CD I just ripped into the Naim and simply laughed at the difference.
I compare Pi2 based audio out via TV tonight - if it is not significantly worse that the DAC+ output, I'll put the DAC+ in classifieds soon :)
Richard
This may or may not help but this how I setup Moode and the RPi/IQaudio DAC + combo. My music is on a NAS and the RPi is wired.
Go to System Menu
- set time zone
- set I2S Audio device to IQAudio DAC+
- set ALSA vol to 100%
- set Airplay on
Reboot
Go to MPD menu
Audio output should be: 'I2S Audio Device'
Disable Volume ( I use a passive Pre)
Resample choice 16 bit / 176.4 Khz
SOX: High Quality
Hit Apply, go to sources menu
Click New NAS
give it a name
Select SMB/CIFS
enter IP address (no leading or trailing slashes / or \ )
enter remote directory (this maybe case sensitive so watch what you put in here)
User Name for me is Guest with a capital G
no password, leave blank
Click Save
So I installed EAC and did a WAV based rip to try. Better and I could live with it...but I then put the CD I just ripped into the Naim and simply laughed at the difference.
Bizarre... I've heard (and owned) many different Naim CDPs, and in my system, the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC (correctly set up and optimised) murders them all.
Marco.
montesquieu
25-05-2015, 14:58
This may or may not help but this how I setup Moode and the RPi/IQaudio DAC + combo. My music is on a NAS and the RPi is wired.
Go to System Menu
- set time zone
- set I2S Audio device to IQAudio DAC+
- set ALSA vol to 100%
- set Airplay on
Reboot
Go to MPD menu
Audio output should be: 'I2S Audio Device'
Disable Volume ( I use a passive Pre)
Resample choice 16 bit / 176.4 Khz
SOX: High Quality
Hit Apply, go to sources menu
Click New NAS
give it a name
Select SMB/CIFS
enter IP address (no leading or trailing slashes / or \ )
enter remote directory (this maybe case sensitive so watch what you put in here)
User Name for me is Guest with a capital G
no password, leave blank
Click Save
Been through all this many times with different variations of caps, slashes/no slashes, admin/password and Guest access ... no luck. As I say it works fine with exactly the same settings on Rune Audio. I'm using a Digi+ board rather than a DAC board, but that's an easy menu option. Always falls over at the same point. Have spent literally hours trying different things here. Have concluded it must be a bug.
I did make a post on the Volumio site but I'm not alone in having this issue and it hasn't been addressed.
https://volumio.org/forum/mount-error-nas-issue-please-help-t3099.html
I did make a post on the Volumio site but I'm not alone in having this issue and it hasn't been addressed.
https://volumio.org/forum/mount-error-nas-issue-please-help-t3099.html
Had a look at 'Unanswered posts' and the list went on forever...
Guess it's not a heavily frequented 'Help' forum...
That's such a pain in the arse, Tom. It's worked faultlessly for me since day 1....
I wonder what issues could be causing the problems others and you are having, compared with many folks like me who were up and running in no time at all? :scratch:
Marco.
Had a look at 'Unanswered posts' and the list went on forever...
Guess it's not a heavily frequented 'Help' forum...
Indeed. That place is about as much use a chocolate teapot!
Marco.
mmmm. chocolate tea http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/25/59fa8838b4871779cbad85500feb190f.jpg [emoji12]
After using Picoreplayer for the past week I have now returned to Volumio to try out it's Airplay feature, all I can say is that it's working great. Spotify free playing on my main system via Airplay using my ipad. Something I could never do using the Touch or via Volumio which needs a premium account, also works great with the Radio Paradise app. I can also play songs from my NAS via ipeng's built in playback feature, but only upto 24 bit/48 kHz sound quality, I need to switch Airplay off and revert to Volumio for higher res files.
Been through all this many times with different variations of caps, slashes/no slashes, admin/password and Guest access ... no luck. As I say it works fine with exactly the same settings on Rune Audio. I'm using a Digi+ board rather than a DAC board, but that's an easy menu option. Always falls over at the same point. Have spent literally hours trying different things here. Have concluded it must be a bug.
I did make a post on the Volumio site but I'm not alone in having this issue and it hasn't been addressed.
https://volumio.org/forum/mount-error-nas-issue-please-help-t3099.html
Have you tried adding sec=ntlm as an option when creating a NAS mount in Volumio?
If you can use SSH to login as the "root" user to your RPi when running Runeadio via your MAC's terminal app, this simple command will show what parameters Runeaudio has used to mount your NAS share:
mount
If you can cut & paste the output of the "mount" command here, it might give us a clue as to why the mount fails in Volumio.
cyclopse
25-05-2015, 19:29
This may or may not help but this how I setup Moode and the RPi/IQaudio DAC + combo. My music is on a NAS and the RPi is wired.
Go to System Menu
- set time zone
- set I2S Audio device to IQAudio DAC+
- set ALSA vol to 100%
- set Airplay on
Reboot
Go to MPD menu
Audio output should be: 'I2S Audio Device'
Disable Volume ( I use a passive Pre)
Resample choice 16 bit / 176.4 Khz
SOX: High Quality
Hit Apply, go to sources menu
Click New NAS
give it a name
Select SMB/CIFS
enter IP address (no leading or trailing slashes / or \ )
enter remote directory (this maybe case sensitive so watch what you put in here)
User Name for me is Guest with a capital G
no password, leave blank
Click Save
I think ALSA volume setting of 100 equals +6db. I have set mine at 93.
SOX: Very high quality
Resampling: maxed at 32/384
Kernal Latency: Orion
Thanks
Stephen
montesquieu
25-05-2015, 19:30
Have you tried adding sec=ntlm as an option when creating a NAS mount in Volumio?
If you can use SSH to login as the "root" user to your RPi when running Runeadio via your MAC's terminal app, this simple command will show what parameters Runeaudio has used to mount your NAS share:
mount
If you can cut & paste the output of the "mount" command here, it might give us a clue as to why the mount fails in Volumio.
You've lost me there I'm afraid ... I can only go in via the web UI, any command line stuff is beyond me unfortunately.
You've lost me there I'm afraid ... I can only go in via the web UI, any command line stuff is beyond me unfortunately.
Just try the mount option sec=ntlm
On Voumio web UI, enter NAS details but also go to "advanced options" and in the "Mount flags" put the following text: sec=ntlm
Bizarre... I've heard (and owned) many different Naim CDPs, and in my system, the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC (correctly set up and optimised) murders them all.
Marco.
Fair enough Marco - mine is an old CDI, and is one of the few items I have not modified yet (I have all the bits to mount a PFM Flea clock, just haven't felt the need). To my ears & preferences CD replay is far superior - soundstage is good via the RPi/DAC+, but clarity between separate notes/instruments across frequency range, and clarity of high frequencies is far better with the CDI, which creates a 3d soundstage missing via the RPi/DAC+.
I am also fighting against expectation bias - lack of imaging has always been a criticism of file based playback I have heard in the past - and admittedly I am in a minority.
I didn't get to compare HDMI audio to DAC+ audio last night (I also did an OSMC build and am using the RPi2 very successfully to run Kodi and replace my old hacked ATV1), but did discover how to configure the OSMC Linux kernel to utilise the DAC+ as an audio output device...which means I will likely keep it.
A note to NRG - if I set ALSAmixer main volume to 100% I got distortion on heavy bass notes, sounded like the DAC buffer being overloaded. As per above, 100% is actually +6db - I backed mine down to 86 or 87%.
Richard
A note to NRG - if I set ALSAmixer main volume to 100% I got distortion on heavy bass notes, sounded like the DAC buffer being overloaded. As per above, 100% is actually +6db - I backed mine down to 86 or 87%.
Richard
OK, those are just my settings, not sure what you mean by DAC buffer though... the DAC output may be too hot at 100% and it's overloading whatever you've got it plugged into...
Also, what do you mean by "awkward to shut down"? In Volumio, you simply go to Menu > Turn Off, and bob's yer aunty, the RPi shuts down in seconds!
Shutting down is the easy bit but the only way to power it back on is to unplug the micro USB and plug it back in.
I can only do this at the Pi end and was worried about damaged or breaking the Pi as the Micro USB port is tight and could be damage by the force of unplugging and plugging back in.
I saw a few tutorials for creating a reset switch which would be ideal but not sure my soldering skills are that good and their is no room for it in my Pi case.
How do you guys handle this?
Guy
I never switch it off! Or you could use one of these: http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/usb-cable-with-switch-for-raspberry-pi-a59qn?gclid=COC1y_r53sUCFQXJtAodySQAOA Can't vouch for the quality...
I assume that it is safe to leave a Raspberry Pi 2 with Volumio powered on and running 24/7?
OK, this is a huge thread now so sorry if this has already been covered....
First off, having been inspired by this thread I bought a Pi 2 and have installed Volumio.
I am using it with my USB DAC and am using it as a DNLA Renderer only using my Synology NAS and Audio Station (which is fantastic by the way, their iOS app is far better than any other DNLA controller for iOS).
So, on to my question....
I was under the impression that if you disabled the volume control by setting the Mixer type to disabled then the volume would be set to 100% so that audio is sent unchanged to you DAC and you can control the volume via you amp.
However, reading a few posts in this thread it has been said that when you set the Mixer type to disabled is does so at the current volume (hardware or software?) that has been set i.e. if the volume was set at 70% the the volume would be disabled and set to 70%.
Is this true and does this affect the audio quality?
The main reason I ask is because I have the volume set to 100% and then have set the Mixer type to disabled but the volume of audio through my DAC via my amp is a lot louder that audio through the other inputs on my amp (CD, Turntable, etc).
For the best audio quality what are the best settings?
Thanks
Guy
I assume that it is safe to leave a Raspberry Pi 2 with Volumio powered on and running 24/7?
Safe? You won't damage the RPi if that's what you mean. Idle power drawn is approx 300mA or 1.5w so it's not going to cost much...overfilling your kettle and boiling it will consume way more power. :)
So, on to my question....
I was under the impression that if you disabled the volume control by setting the Mixer type to disabled then the volume would be set to 100% so that audio is sent unchanged to you DAC and you can control the volume via you amp.
However, reading a few posts in this thread it has been said that when you set the Mixer type to disabled is does so at the current volume (hardware or software?) that has been set i.e. if the volume was set at 70% the the volume would be disabled and set to 70%.
Is this true and does this affect the audio quality?
The main reason I ask is because I have the volume set to 100% and then have set the Mixer type to disabled but the volume of audio through my DAC via my amp is a lot louder that audio through the other inputs on my amp (CD, Turntable, etc).
For the best audio quality what are the best settings?
Thanks
Guy
I was under the same impression as well Guy until Marco pointed it out.....Volumio reports it as 100% which is confusing, Moode as 0% ! The disabled setting just means you can't adjust from the GUI, you can still do so from alsamixer.
I've revisited the setting this morning and I've now backed it down to 92% which closely matches my LP source and my TDA1541a DAC. Setting to 86% is 0db, IE: no boost or cut but I found the level too low at this setting. AFAIK there is no detrimental effect on quality....
Have you been into the alasmixer settings from the command line to check if you are outputting 2 or 1v RMS?
I've never managed to get anything out of Volumio at all. Though I have not seen any mount errors, as far as I can tell, everything looks OK, but there's just no sound! I have not really tried any of the other systems - maybe I'll have to give Rune a go...
Well - I have finally managed it! This has taken me weeks, but changing from Volumio to Rune Audio somehow made the thing work. As far as I can see I have enabled the same settings on Rune as I did on Volumio, but at least I can now play files from a USB drive and use the kit as a renderer for my NAS stored files - which is what I really wanted to do all along. I'm only on my second tune, so no comment on how it all sounds yet, but it is finally working!
Well done! http://theartofsound.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.png
Well - I have finally managed it! This has taken me weeks, but changing from Volumio to Rune Audio somehow made the thing work. As far as I can see I have enabled the same settings on Rune as I did on Volumio, but at least I can now play files from a USB drive and use the kit as a renderer for my NAS stored files - which is what I really wanted to do all along. I'm only on my second tune, so no comment on how it all sounds yet, but it is finally working!
Its a great feeling when you manage something. I find it helps to keep a notepad doc of notes on what I have done just so I can go back later.
Canetoad
26-05-2015, 10:18
+1 :)
Safe? You won't damage the RPi if that's what you mean. Idle power drawn is approx 300mA or 1.5w so it's not going to cost much...overfilling your kettle and boiling it will consume way more power. :)
I was more thinking along the lines of shortening the lifespan of the Pi by having it running 24/7 which I suppose is a bit daft. Even if it did it would be worth it for the hassle saving and just buy a new one when it happened as they are so cheap anyway :)
I have my pi a!d hdd psu plugged into switched sockets so once shut down in evening i flick the switches....just in case....it also means repowering doesnt require me to unplug and replug
I was under the same impression as well Guy until Marco pointed it out.....Volumio reports it as 100% which is confusing, Moode as 0% ! The disabled setting just means you can't adjust from the GUI, you can still do so from alsamixer.
I've revisited the setting this morning and I've now backed it down to 92% which closely matches my LP source and my TDA1541a DAC. Setting to 86% is 0db, IE: no boost or cut but I found the level too low at this setting. AFAIK there is no detrimental effect on quality....
Have you been into the alasmixer settings from the command line to check if you are outputting 2 or 1v RMS?
OK, cool. Thanks for the help.
So I can just adjust the level using the software Mixer type to get it the right level and then set the Mixer type to disabled and there will be no impact of audio quality and bit perfect playback?
How would one go about checking the alasmixer settings and what impact does the output of 2 or 1v RMS make? I guess I would need to find a monitor and keyboard :)
I have my pi a!d hdd psu plugged into switched sockets so once shut down in evening i flick the switches....just in case....it also means repowering doesnt require me to unplug and replug
Due to where I have everything plugged in I can't get to the sockets!
I have just bought the ifi iUSB Power that I am going to use to both power the Pi and provide a 'clean' USB signal to my DAC. This will be accessible so once Volumio is shutdown I could just unplug the USB cable from the power only USB socket of the iUSB.
Having said that I may just leave it powered all the time unless I am going away.
Guy
montesquieu
26-05-2015, 11:31
Due to where I have everything plugged in I can't get to the sockets!
I have just bought the ifi iUSB Power that I am going to use to both power the Pi and provide a 'clean' USB signal to my DAC. This will be accessible so once Volumio is shutdown I could just unplug the USB cable from the power only USB socket of the iUSB.
Having said that I may just leave it powered all the time unless I am going away.
Guy
You need one of these
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/usb-cable-with-switch-for-raspberry-pi-a59qn?gclid=CL-b-Kan38UCFePItAodDDAAmA
OK, cool. Thanks for the help.
So I can just adjust the level using the software Mixer type to get it the right level and then set the Mixer type to disabled and there will be no impact of audio quality and bit perfect playback?
How would one go about checking the alasmixer settings and what impact does the output of 2 or 1v RMS make? I guess I would need to find a monitor and keyboard :)
Not necessarily - if you know the IP address install PUTTY on a computer and then SSH into it. Default username/password (with Volumio) is root/volumio. But have you not already done this to modify the config.txt file to tell it to use the IQ Audio DAC? Typing in "alsamixer" (without the quotes) will launch the interface - the middle slider toggles between 0% (1v) and 100% (2v). 2v is louder.
Richard
I am on a Mac and can probably use Terminal.
I am not using a IQ Audio DAC but simply using the USB output to an external DAC so other than selecting my DAC on the settings page and playing with the other settings I have pretty much just inserted the Micro SD for a bit of plug and play action. All setup in about 10mins :)
I'll take a look at alsamixer and have a play :)
Guy
OK, so I SSH'd into the Pi to look at/change settings in alsamixer.
I selected my DAC and adjusted the <Digital In> level so that it was level/just below the 'white' bit :)
When I did this the volume/level through my DAC was the same as my other amp inputs such as my CD and turntable.
So as long as this ain't messing with the audio quality I am happy :)
Before:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/26/6d983dc56a48698caefbeb593f72d190.jpg
After:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/26/59516152f8ef2ed4a4d233d0866f3d2f.jpg
EDIT: actually the after image is slightly wrong as the level was set to 84 which was a dB Gain of -4.50, -4.50
cyclopse
26-05-2015, 17:06
OK, so I SSH'd into the Pi to look at/change settings in alsamixer.
I selected my DAC and adjusted the <Digital In> level so that it was level/just below the 'white' bit :)
When I did this the volume/level through my DAC was the same as my other amp inputs such as my CD and turntable.
So as long as this ain't messing with the audio quality I am happy :)
Before:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/26/6d983dc56a48698caefbeb593f72d190.jpg
After:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/26/59516152f8ef2ed4a4d233d0866f3d2f.jpg
EDIT: actually the after image is slightly wrong as the level was set to 84 which was a dB Gain of -4.50, -4.50
Similar to my findings. A 100% setting in Alsamixer is too high compared to my other sources and leads to clipping of the output signal.
I like the playback flexibility, Flac input 24/96 and 24/192, WAV 24/96 and DSD all handled with no issues. Did get some distortion with DSD 2.
Regards
Stephen
ooooh, I dont have one of those :eyebrows:
Time to open a brand new can of worms, look away now if you're of a nervous disposition:
Has anyone else noticed how sensitive the IQ DAC is to interconnect quality? Quite by accident, I managed to swap a set of interconnects with my CD player and suddenly realised the sound from the Pi/IQ had changed quite significantly - It had taken on a hard edge and the HF was sounding somewhat rough. Picking up on what must have caused this change straight away as I'd been unplugging and re-plugging everything, I tried swapping out a couple more interconnects I had lying around and the differences are much more marked between the cables than any piece of kit I've ever tried different cables on before, to the point that if I'd initially had the Pi connected using my CD player interconnects, I don't think I'd ever have been that impressed with it and wondered what all the fuss was about. At the moment, I've settled on a set of Supra interconnects at 0.75m which have very low capacitance values (these were cables I'd chosen for my turntable when I was using an MM cart but have since moved to MC).
So that's got me thinking - Are these large differences down to the fact that there's not that much in the way of a buffering stage in the analogue output of the IQ DAC? In which case, how would it fare with something like a Musical Fidelity X-10D on the end of it, or similar buffering stage - Or can it be Lampizated? Now that sounds like a project!!
Interesting. I have only used it with one set; a 2 m set of monster cables(only free pair I had long enough). I have a fancy MF buffer that I'm using wth my cd at moment but may try it with the pi sometime to find out. I'd have to move it I think to try another set of cables
I'd be very interested to hear what sort of a difference that makes for you Grant...
cyclopse
28-05-2015, 19:57
Time to open a brand new can of worms, look away now if you're of a nervous disposition:
Has anyone else noticed how sensitive the IQ DAC is to interconnect quality? Quite by accident, I managed to swap a set of interconnects with my CD player and suddenly realised the sound from the Pi/IQ had changed quite significantly - It had taken on a hard edge and the HF was sounding somewhat rough. Picking up on what must have caused this change straight away as I'd been unplugging and re-plugging everything, I tried swapping out a couple more interconnects I had lying around and the differences are much more marked between the cables than any piece of kit I've ever tried different cables on before, to the point that if I'd initially had the Pi connected using my CD player interconnects, I don't think I'd ever have been that impressed with it and wondered what all the fuss was about. At the moment, I've settled on a set of Supra interconnects at 0.75m which have very low capacitance values (these were cables I'd chosen for my turntable when I was using an MM cart but have since moved to MC).
So that's got me thinking - Are these large differences down to the fact that there's not that much in the way of a buffering stage in the analogue output of the IQ DAC? In which case, how would it fare with something like a Musical Fidelity X-10D on the end of it, or similar buffering stage - Or can it be Lampizated? Now that sounds like a project!!
Could this explain the poor results in a small number of cases?
Could be...good find Richard. There's no o/p filtering or opamp from the DAC chip so what it's attached to could have a huge impact on how it sounds....
montesquieu
28-05-2015, 21:57
Just try the mount option sec=ntlm
On Voumio web UI, enter NAS details but also go to "advanced options" and in the "Mount flags" put the following text: sec=ntlm
Finally got round to giving this a go ... didn't help, just caused it to go into a loop. Took the SD card out in the end.
Time to open a brand new can of worms, look away now if you're of a nervous disposition:
Has anyone else noticed how sensitive the IQ DAC is to interconnect quality? Quite by accident, I managed to swap a set of interconnects with my CD player and suddenly realised the sound from the Pi/IQ had changed quite significantly - It had taken on a hard edge and the HF was sounding somewhat rough. Picking up on what must have caused this change straight away as I'd been unplugging and re-plugging everything, I tried swapping out a couple more interconnects I had lying around and the differences are much more marked between the cables than any piece of kit I've ever tried different cables on before, to the point that if I'd initially had the Pi connected using my CD player interconnects, I don't think I'd ever have been that impressed with it and wondered what all the fuss was about. At the moment, I've settled on a set of Supra interconnects at 0.75m which have very low capacitance values (these were cables I'd chosen for my turntable when I was using an MM cart but have since moved to MC).
So that's got me thinking - Are these large differences down to the fact that there's not that much in the way of a buffering stage in the analogue output of the IQ DAC? In which case, how would it fare with something like a Musical Fidelity X-10D on the end of it, or similar buffering stage - Or can it be Lampizated? Now that sounds like a project!!
Welcome to the world of computer audio audiophillia nervousa...
The "trick"is to pick your point of exit!
Could this explain the poor results in a small number of cases?
Hmm - maybe, mine was tested with a 10 metre no-name interconnect (I have the Pi by the TV, not the hi fi). I give a decent interconnect a go over the weekend.
Could be...good find Richard. There's no o/p filtering or opamp from the DAC chip so what it's attached to could have a huge impact on how it sounds....
Do you have a cct diagram of the IQ Dac+?
Thanks, Richard
I'm on a Mac, trying to access Alsamixer. I've opened terminal and typed in various commands as suggested but nothing works!
The Mac is connected by ethernet to a BT router and then wirelessly to my Pi +IQ Dac.
The PI runs Volumio, and is 'headless'.
Please can someone suggest in easy-to-understand terms what I'm doing wrong? (...and, yes, I have googled it).
Assume I know nothing (very nearly the truth).
Many thanks,
Richard
Welcome to the world of computer audio audiophillia nervousa...
The "trick"is to pick your point of exit!
Hahah! I've been in that world for many years! I don't seem to sit on the autistic spectrum for anything other than when it comes to audio reproduction, but then I seem to make up for it in spades. My problem is that I can quite safely say 'I'm happy with the way it sounds', but if there's nothing to tinker with, the hobby starts to get a bit boring. There will ALWAYS be the next thing to play about with!
Please can someone suggest in easy-to-understand terms what I'm doing wrong? (...and, yes, I have googled it).
Richard
Hi Richard,
The first thing is to ensure that your Mac can see the Pi over the network, so with your terminal open issue a ping command which will send a call to the Pi and if they can see each other, the Pi will respond, so type:
ping <IP address of your pi>
e.g.
ping 192.168.0.10
The Mac will now send ping commands every second or so until you tell it to stop (ctrl + c). A successful response will look something like:
Richard$ ping 192.168.0.10
PING 192.168.0.10 (192.168.0.10): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.0.10: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=0.062 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.10: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.121 ms
Those time measurements at the end tell you how long it took from sending the request to returning the response, and all is good if you can see this.
If you see something like:
Richard$ ping 192.168.0.4
PING 192.168.0.4 (192.168.0.4): 56 data bytes
Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
Request timeout for icmp_seq 2
Then your Mac cannot see the Pi, so you can't go any further until you can get ping responses. If this is the case then the problem will lie somewhere in your network configuration:
1. Check that the IP address of the Pi is what you think it is - If the network configuration is set to DHCP then it may change every time the Pi is rebooted. It is for this reason, I always use static IP addresses so you know where everything is. Volumio has DHCP switched on by default, but you can easily set up a static IP configuration in the Network page of the web interface.
2. Ensure the Mac and the Pi are sharing the same subnet, i.e. if your Mac is on 192.168.0.something, then your Pi will also want to be on 192.168.0.something. If any of the first three numbers (octets) differ, then they occupy different subnets and will have trouble seeing each other, unless you start getting into more complex routing methods (which you don't want to do).
3. Following on from 2. check the netmask value (this usually appears underneath the IP address for each device). Firstly, this value should be the same on every device. If it is different then you may start to get problems. Most commonly this value should be 255.255.255.0. A netmask is a pretty good descriptive term. You are applying a mask over the network to each device - The holes in the mask - i.e. the zero - means that the device can see everything else no matter what the value is in this octet, whereas the 255 values mean that if the octet number for that field differs from the one being used by that device for any other device, it is masked and one won't see the other.
Following these rules should get to a point where you can ping, so once you've got there, you should be able to log into your Pi with the command
ssh -l pi <IP address of your Pi>
upon which you will be asked for your Pi password.
Hope that helps,
Rich
Having written all of that and having only recently switched over to wireless myself (you could say another attack of audiophilia nervosa), I've noticed that with Moode at least (this may be the same for Volumio, or may not), that the network configuration does not seem to allow you to set a static IP address for the Pi, so it's DHCP all the way, which means you may have some trouble finding which IP address your Pi has been assigned.
There is a handy piece of free Mac software for this called Angry IP scanner. Download that, run it and in the Ip Range box enter the start and end of your network range - It will probably fill this in for you automatically, so all you have to do is click Start. Look down the list until you see a hostname called Volumio and that will give you your IP address.
if you run your bband provider router ip add in a browser it should tell you whats connected and what has been asigned what ip add. you can change it to static there
Do you have a cct diagram of the IQ Dac+?
Thanks, Richard
No, but it uses a PCM5122 and looks like the data sheet implementation more or less, certainly for the o/p stage IE: a 154Khz low pass filer made up of 470R/2n2 cap..
Dear Lovejoy, that is a very full and detailed response.
Thanks so much.
I reconnected ethernet to the Pi and was able to ping successfully.
However, when I tried the last bit (ssh....)
I got this:
64 bytes from 192.168.1.110: icmp_seq=28 ttl=64 time=2.803 ms
^C
--- 192.168.1.110 ping statistics ---
29 packets transmitted, 29 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 2.297/2.793/3.911/0.358 ms
applesimacg52:~ apple$ ssh -1 192.168.1.110
Protocol major versions differ: 1 vs. 2
applesimacg52:~ apple$
(see the penultimate line)
Any ideas?
(The IP address has volumio on the router's homepage rather than Pi)
Again,
Many thanks,
Richard
Hi Richard,
The first thing is to ensure that your Mac can see the Pi over the network, so with your terminal open issue a ping command which will send a call to the Pi and if they can see each other, the Pi will respond, so type:
ping <IP address of your pi>
e.g.
ping 192.168.0.10
The Mac will now send ping commands every second or so until you tell it to stop (ctrl + c). A successful response will look something like:
Richard$ ping 192.168.0.10
PING 192.168.0.10 (192.168.0.10): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.0.10: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=0.062 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.10: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.121 ms
Those time measurements at the end tell you how long it took from sending the request to returning the response, and all is good if you can see this.
If you see something like:
Richard$ ping 192.168.0.4
PING 192.168.0.4 (192.168.0.4): 56 data bytes
Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
Request timeout for icmp_seq 2
Then your Mac cannot see the Pi, so you can't go any further until you can get ping responses. If this is the case then the problem will lie somewhere in your network configuration:
1. Check that the IP address of the Pi is what you think it is - If the network configuration is set to DHCP then it may change every time the Pi is rebooted. It is for this reason, I always use static IP addresses so you know where everything is. Volumio has DHCP switched on by default, but you can easily set up a static IP configuration in the Network page of the web interface.
2. Ensure the Mac and the Pi are sharing the same subnet, i.e. if your Mac is on 192.168.0.something, then your Pi will also want to be on 192.168.0.something. If any of the first three numbers (octets) differ, then they occupy different subnets and will have trouble seeing each other, unless you start getting into more complex routing methods (which you don't want to do).
3. Following on from 2. check the netmask value (this usually appears underneath the IP address for each device). Firstly, this value should be the same on every device. If it is different then you may start to get problems. Most commonly this value should be 255.255.255.0. A netmask is a pretty good descriptive term. You are applying a mask over the network to each device - The holes in the mask - i.e. the zero - means that the device can see everything else no matter what the value is in this octet, whereas the 255 values mean that if the octet number for that field differs from the one being used by that device for any other device, it is masked and one won't see the other.
Following these rules should get to a point where you can ping, so once you've got there, you should be able to log into your Pi with the command
ssh -l pi <IP address of your Pi>
upon which you will be asked for your Pi password.
Hope that helps,
Rich
applesimacg52:~ apple$ ssh -1 192.168.1.110 this should read.....
applesimacg52:~ apple$ ssh -l pi 192.168.1.110 Thats a lower case L plus the user name....
or use:
applesimacg52:~ apple$ ssh pi@192.168.1.110
there is a discussion about that here
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=33091
Thanks guys, I have at last managed to get something on the screen that looks like alsamixer I've seen from other threads and sites./Users/apple/Desktop/alsamixer.jpg
But what next?
The F1 to F5 keys are 'apple' ones. F6 lets me choose a sound card. I've explored both the IQ and Alsa. I managed to decrease one volume level to get rid of the red part at the top of the 'histogram'.
Is that all? Are there any suggested tweaks?
I can't surely be the only one confused here. Is there any chance that one of the cognoscenti can write a 'sticky'?
Many thanks,
Richard
Hi Richard,
Use the arrow keys on your Mac to navigate the various mixer options. The currently selected one will turn from white to red text in the options at the bottom of the screen.
PCM is your master volume - 86 is the 0dB level, anything into the red is boost. I have mine set to 96 which matches the output of my CD player. If you set this much higher you'll likely start to hear distorion. Most people seem to settle around 92-97 I think, but it's handy if you have another source (apart from vinyl) to compare it with.
Move to the right with the arrow key and you'll select 'DSP Prog'. This allows you to select one of the different filter profiles built into the DAC chip. Use up and down arrow to change the value as you would with the volume levels. I've settled on Low latency IIR with de-emphasis. There are changes in presentation for all profiles. You may find another one works better for you, so it's worth having a listen to them all. This one is definitely worth playing with.
The next one along - Playback - gives you a -6dB attenuation if set to 0 and no attenuation if set to 100 (these are the only two values). I can't really see a reason for setting this to -6dB if you have your PCM level set correctly.
The next one along is Playback Boost, which gives a further 0.8dB of gain. This one is subtle and again is an on/off switch. Mine is on, but I don't think it makes much difference.
The rest of the options are mostly concerned with muting periods and how things are handled if there is a problem. Leave these set as they are.
Once you exit (Escape key), it's best to do a soft reboot of the Pi, either from the Web interface or just type:
sudo reboot
from the terminal. This ensures your settings have been saved. If you remove power rather than do a soft reboot, the previous settings will return after the next reboot.
I was thinking a sticky would be a good idea....
Here's a pic of what it should look like (or at least it does on my Mac)
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7735/18223571932_c1707008fd_c.jpg
www.maplin.co.uk/p/logic3-14000mah-power-bank-n77ek?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=16P03_W2_D6&utm_content=Product-1&utm_campaign=16P03-11
possible power source for pi
Thanks to Lovejoy and Mikmas.
Very much appreciated.
I'm busy for next hours/days but will experiment and let you know later...
Thanks.
BW
Richard.
Gordon@IQ
30-05-2015, 08:22
Rich, yes!
We designed the Pi-DAC+ to offer great performance at an entry level price. This is only made possible by the latest generation DAC's using integrated line drivers at the output. To keep costs and component count low, the Pi-DAC+ utilises this feature and uses a simple passive filter at the output to remove high frequency noise generated in the conversion process. This CAN make the Pi-DAC+ more sensitive to the interconnecting cables, namely the cable length and quality. The loading effect of the device which the Pi-DAC+ is plugged into can also affect performance.
Simply, we recommend keeping the cable lengths as short as possible, and use the highest quality cables you can afford.
Back to tinkering - time to find the best cables for your system / ears = more time listening and enjoying music.
Here we use a range of cables but I still like my home made (25yrs old) van der hul interconnects.
Gordon@IQaudIO.com
Here we use a range of cables but I still like my home made (25yrs old) van der hul interconnects.
Interesting, Gordon. Are those the cables that the DAC was tested, and therefore, 'voiced' with?
If so, specifically which VDH cables are you talking about? :)
Marco.
Knew it was too good to be true! switched on today and i go to usb all the albums are there ..pick one and it plays but in playlist there is nothing and in playback it comes up as nan undefined. wont switch off either... i powered it off at wall and restarted and nothing changed. odd that as i though at least the ip would have and probably would have lost the library. so i can play but the interface is gone...boo hoo!
mightcadd when you select to play album it only plays first track repeatedly
Sounds like a corrupted SD card, mate....
Why bother switching off at all, though? I leave mine powered up 24/7, and simply click on a saved Volumio tab on my desktop, whenever I want to play music on the RPi, and I'm away in seconds - and it's been like that since day 1 :cool:
Lesson to be learned: leave it on all the time and there's less chance of things getting buggered up!
Marco.
In process of writing another volumio onto a different card to try. If it dont work then I will be back to the old methods it seems ...never mind it was fun for a week. Not very satisfactory that it cant be switched of reliably though without f**king up
Not really, it's still a computer running an operating system. If you switch of your laptop without shutting it down first you can cause file corruption, the RPi is no different. Volumio has a shutdown menu option you should use it if you wish to power off...
i powered it off at wall and restarted and nothing changed.
I have had that a couple of times - first time I thought I'd need to remake the card but after a longer period off it was fine by next boot up.
The old standard used to be to switch off computers for at least a minute to clear all the gubbins before a reboot and not just off/on
Oh i do use it to power down every night. once it is finished powering down i just switch off at wall. in morning i power up and it has up till now been fine. have made another image but it doesnt work.
Sounds like a corrupted SD card, mate....
Why bother switching off at all, though?
Marco.
Changing settings requires a system reboot for them to be effective in some cases. I also find refreshing the system with a reboot a good way to chase out gremlins (and Volumio, like any other OS, has its fair share)
Oh i do use it to power down every night. once it is finished powering down i just switch off at wall. in morning i power up and it has up till now been fine. have made another image but it doesnt work.
That's your mistake, mate. Lose the switching it off at the wall bit (the RPi has very minimal energy consumption), and the subsequent powering up (and leave the unit connected to the mains supply 24/7), and there'll be less chance of anything getting fucked up in future :)
Marco.
Changing settings requires a system reboot for them to be effective in some cases. I also find refreshing the system with a reboot a good way to chase out gremlins (and Volumio, like any other OS, has its fair share)
Sure, rebooting is fine (and recommended occasionally). Full powering off from the mains is another matter entirely, and not recommended.
Marco.
Sounds like a corrupted SD card, mate....
Why bother switching off at all, though? I leave mine powered up 24/7, and simply click on a saved Volumio tab on my desktop, whenever I want to play music on the RPi, and I'm away in seconds - and it's been like that since day 1 :cool:
Lesson to be learned: leave it on all the time and there's less chance of things getting buggered up!
Marco.
That's the beauty of piCorePlayer, as it's a very trimmed down platform it runs completely from RAM, and therefore has no need to write back to the SD card...except when one wants to explicitly save new settings to the config file.
Which has a couple of benefits, firstly one can use any old sd card (I'm using a 4 yer old class 2 4GB one), and it can be toggled off and on by simply removing or replacing the power cable...which is nice ;)
I've now got it to save the alsamixer settings too, so it is completely immune to power issues, or restarts...:cool:
Stratmangler
30-05-2015, 11:32
With a shutdown state power draw of just 0.26W there's no need to turn the Pi off.
http://raspi.tv/2014/how-much-less-power-does-the-raspberry-pi-b-use-than-the-old-model-b
With a shutdown state power draw of just 0.26W there's no need to turn the Pi off.
http://raspi.tv/2014/how-much-less-power-does-the-raspberry-pi-b-use-than-the-old-model-b
Hi Chris, have you been having a dabble with the Pi? The piCorePlayer distro works a treat with LMS :)
That's the beauty of piCorePlayer, as it's a very trimmed down platform it runs completely from RAM, and therefore has no need to write back to the SD card...except when one wants to explicitly save new settings to the config file.
Which has a couple of benefits, firstly one can use any old sd card (I'm using a 4 yer old class 2 4GB one), and it can be toggled off and on by simply removing or replacing the power cable...which is nice ;)
I've now got it to save the alsamixer settings too, so it is completely immune to power issues, or restarts...:cool:
Hi Will,
That's cool. I've never tried piCorePlayer, quite simply because I've had ZERO problems with the RPi, using Volumio (and also Moode), since day 1, so have no need to experiment.
In my set-up, to play music on the RPi, all I have to do is switch my hi-fi system on, and as my Macbook Pro will already have been on since first waking up in the morning around 8-9am (and which boots up and is fully operational in seconds), all I have to do is click once on a saved tab on my desktop, which takes me to Volumio, and the last piece of music I had been listening to before going to bed that night, and click play (or choose something else), and I'm away!
It's a piece of piss! :cool:
Marco.
With a shutdown state power draw of just 0.26W there's no need to turn the Pi off.
http://raspi.tv/2014/how-much-less-power-does-the-raspberry-pi-b-use-than-the-old-model-b
Yeah, that what I was going to do - power down each night but leave it connected to the power - the only problem being that, as far as I know, the only way to start it back up again is to pull the power and reconnect it?
Hi Guy,
You don't need to power down anything!
For talking sake, say you're using Volumio and playing a particular track. Simply stop the track, by clicking on the stop button, close down volumio (and by that I simply mean closing the opened tab on your desktop, not actually shutting down anything in the operating system), switch off your laptop, or whatever other device you're using (and if you want your hi-fi system), and go to bed.
In the morning, switch your laptop and hi-fi system back on, and continue where you left off. No need to power down anything relating to the RPi. Leave it ALL on, ALWAYS. Simples! :)
My RPi, associated Paul Hynes linear PSU, and NAS box (containing all my music files) remain powered up 24/7.
Marco.
Stratmangler
30-05-2015, 11:55
Hi Chris, have you been having a dabble with the Pi? The piCorePlayer distro works a treat with LMS :)
I've not had a play yet, but I will do sometime.
And PiCorePlayer is likely to be the very first thing I'll play with. It would be great to have a Pi player that runs off my existing server setup.
Hi Will,
That's cool. I've never tried piCorePlayer, quite simply because I've had ZERO problems with the RPi, using Volumio (and also Moode), since day 1, so have no need to experiment.
In my set-up, to play music on the RPi, all I have to do is switch my hi-fi system on, and as my Macbook Pro will already have been on since first waking up in the morning around 8-9am (and which boots up and is fully operational in seconds), all I have to do is click once on a saved tab on my desktop, which takes me to Volumio, and the last piece of music I had been listening to before going to bed that night, and click play (or choose something else), and I'm away!
It's a piece of piss! :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco,
You'd need to be a SqueezeBox/LMS user to benefit from piCorePlayer, as it's an implementation of Triode's Squeezelite Java player (FYI Triode is a coding legend amongst the LMS community, having also written the EDO plugin for the touch too), hence it's size, or lack of ;)
I've had the Pi synchronised with my SB Touch(EDO)/MDAC combo for 3 weeks now, across a scheduled daily server restart, serving up FLAC, streaming radio etc., without so much as a click never mind a stutter...it's bullet proof :cool::cool::cool:
Same here. It makes you wonder what all the fuss is about in reference to access/usage problems....
Noted on the piCorePlayer thing. That wouldn't interest me then, as I'm 110% delighted with the RPi, and so have no need to use any other form of music streamer :)
Marco.
Hi Guy,
You don't need to power down anything!
For talking sake, say you're using Volumio and playing a particular track. Simply stop the track, by clicking on the stop button, close down volumio (and by that I simply mean closing the opened tab on your desktop, not actually shutting down anything in the operating system), switch off your laptop, or whatever other device you're using (and if you want your hi-fi system), and go to bed.
In the morning, switch your laptop and hi-fi system back on, and continue where you left off. No need to power down anything relating to the RPi. Leave it ALL on, ALWAYS. Simples! :)
My RPi, associated linear PSU, and NAS box (containing all my music files) remain powered up 24/7.
Marco.
Yeah, I know I will do.
I think it is just because it is part of my 'hi fi' - I turn of my amp and my DAC and my turntable at the end of the day - just makes me think I just turn of my streamer too :)
Plus as it is connected to my ifi iUSB both for USB and for powering the Pi that will also be on and activated and I am not sure it that would cause the ifi iUSB a problem...
But I definitely get your point :)
Hi Chris, have you been having a dabble with the Pi? The piCorePlayer distro works a treat with LMS :)
I'll have to revisit piCorePlayer at some point. I like max2play though, it separates the player part (squeezelite) from the OS which means you can 'power of' squeezelite like a physical SqueezeBox from something like the excellent iPeng app.
Also LMS is embedded so I can still use my SB Radio and office SB along side, plus the RPi has enough grunt to transcode on the fly unlike the version embedded in my Zyxel NAS. Oh it also has XBMC embedded as well!
Yeah, I know I will do.
I think it is just because it is part of my 'hi fi' - I turn of my amp and my DAC and my turntable at the end of the day - just makes me think I just turn of my streamer too :)
Plus as it is connected to my ifi iUSB both for USB and for powering the Pi that will also be on and activated and I am not sure it that would cause the ifi iUSB a problem...
But I definitely get your point :)
Cool. That's where we're different. Apart from my valve amps, the rest of my kit stays on 24/7 (including the RPi).
It not only sounds better that way (especially the IQ-Audio DAC connected to the RPi), but the kit lasts longer too, as one of the worst things you can do with any kind of electrical device is keep switching it on and off all the time! ;)
That's the surest way of shortening its life, and the idle current draw from stuff such as CDPs (or small off-board PSUs) is minimal.....
Marco.
I've not had a play yet, but I will do sometime.
And PiCorePlayer is likely to be the very first thing I'll play with. It would be great to have a Pi player that runs off my existing server setup.
It's a doddle Chris, just make sure you use Triode's version of Squeezelite (there is another option), especially if you want to synch with a Touch running EDO, I did experiment with the other version, but that seemed to introduce some unwanted features...I.E. stuttering!
Give me a shout if you ever get round to it, the only faff I had was getting a compatible wifi dongle, the rest would be a peace of pish to a man of your IT caliber :)
I'll have to revisit piCorePlayer at some point. I like max2play though, it separates the player part (squeezelite) from the OS which means you can 'power of' squeezelite like a physical SqueezeBox from something like the excellent iPeng app.
Also LMS is embedded so I can still use my SB Radio and office SB along side, plus the RPi has enough grunt to transcode on the fly unlike the version embedded in my Zyxel NAS. Oh it also has XBMC embedded as well!
Hi Neal, I'd definitely go down the SqueezePlug route if I were to use the Pi to run LMS, however purely as a player piCorPlayer has some real advantages in robustness, due to its small size, I'd say a hybrid of the 2 would be ideal for a Pi only setup...but as I already have a NAS for LMS, my current requirement is as an alternative to SqueezeBox clients, and what a perfect replacement it is...:)
Hi Will,
That's cool. I've never tried piCorePlayer, quite simply because I've had ZERO problems with the RPi, using Volumio (and also Moode), since day 1, so have no need to experiment.
In my set-up, to play music on the RPi, all I have to do is switch my hi-fi system on, and as my Macbook Pro will already have been on since first waking up in the morning around 8-9am (and which boots up and is fully operational in seconds), all I have to do is click once on a saved tab on my desktop, which takes me to Volumio, and the last piece of music I had been listening to before going to bed that night, and click play (or choose something else), and I'm away!
It's a piece of piss! :cool:
Marco.
What I meant was in standby - is that what you mean? - or do you mean on on?
Lol... 'On', as in permanently connected to the main supply, and not switched off from the controls on Volumio. I guess you could call that 'Standby' :)
Marco.
Hi Guy,
You don't need to power down anything!
For talking sake, say you're using Volumio and playing a particular track. Simply stop the track, by clicking on the stop button, close down volumio (and by that I simply mean closing the opened tab on your desktop, not actually shutting down anything in the operating system), switch off your laptop, or whatever other device you're using (and if you want your hi-fi system), and go to bed.
In the morning, switch your laptop and hi-fi system back on, and continue where you left off. No need to power down anything relating to the RPi. Leave it ALL on, ALWAYS. Simples! :)
My RPi, associated Paul Hynes linear PSU, and NAS box (containing all my music files) remain powered up 24/7.
Marco.
I could try that. what about the connected drive and hub though. they get fairly hot if left on permenantly. would I have to leave them on too.?
ps I have managed to write a new image of volumio to a card and got it working again. The problem was getting it on the card properly...me dumb you know :eyebrows:
Tried to connect via putty on my pc but no luck... just gets blocked.
Lol... 'On', as in permanently connected to the main supply, and not switched off from the controls on Volumio. I guess you could call that 'Standby' :)
Marco.
LOL! I think that we are getting our wires crossed :) That time I was referring to permanently leaving on your amp and stuff. As in do you leave them on all the time or put them in standby each night?
My preamp and power amp are valve designs, so always get switched off when not in use. I would never leave any valve amps on 24/7. However, anything solid state, other than huge Class A power amps, I'd leave switched on 24/7. It will sound better that way - and last longer, too! :)
Marco.
I could try that. what about the connected drive and hub though. they get fairly hot if left on permenantly. would I have to leave them on too.?
As long as they're fan cooled and/or left in a place with plenty of ventilation, I don't see why not. My NAS box gets hot, but is fan cooled, situated in a wide open space, and left on 24/7. Basically, if it's safe and practical to do, you want to leave electrical equipment alone as much as possible, to do what it's been designed to do, without being constantly powered on and off :)
Marco.
Ok - so I tried the rpi2/iqdac+/Volumio with decent interconnects (was using 10mtr no names before); it sounds better, but still no comparison to my CDI CDP. I also compared it to a Behringer UCA202 the Simon (SQ) kindly sent my to try ripping vinyl. The Behringer has more bass, but it is not as good overall as the rpi with iqdac.
So, think I will set it up for permanent use as a multimedia centre with OSMC & Kodi (it excels at HD video playback), using the iqdac+ for audio out rather then HDMI.
Richard
Ok - so I tried the rpi2/iqdac+/Volumio with decent interconnects (was using 10mtr no names before); it sounds better, but still no comparison to my CDI CDP.
That must be one very special CDI you've got there, Richard [better than any I've heard]! ;)
Marco.
It will sound better that way - and last longer, too! :)
Marco.
Doubt it - if anything it's swings and roundabouts. In our house all appliances are switched off bar the fridge freezer.
As for SS amps and such ... the only reason I have got rid is obsolescence or selling on, not because they've worn out
Doubt it - if anything it's swings and roundabouts.
Not in my experience, Mike. How did you know what was and wasn't worn out - did you carry out any 'before and after' measurements of the internal components? ;)
The biggest stress put on any electrical equipment is that induced when it's switched on - and that repeated on>off, on>off procedure *can* (and in my experience does) shorten the lifespan of the equipment. Furthermore, if anything is likely to blow, it'll most likely happen during switch on, than at any other time during the equipment's use.
YMMV :)
Marco.
That must be one very special CDI you've got there, Richard [better than any I've heard]! ;)
Marco.
I guess Marco - I don't really know; it's the only Naim CD player I've heard, a later cdm9 based mech one. It's the best cd replay I have heard - I used to modify Philips based machines, taking signal out of DAC straight into a DIY op stage using a single transistor. Zero filtering, but sounded better that way to my ears...until I repaired my Naim :)
For me the difference was not subtle - while comparing the RPI & Behringer I was pretty happy with the sound, but plugging the Naim back in just brings a big smile to my face.
I think you run a Sony CDP? I only have experience of a X707ES (that I spent years sourcing a new laser unit for!) - this was a pretty good machine with lots of authority, but I still preferred my DIY modified machines overall. But then I bought the Naim CDI as faulty from Italy. All up it cost me £280 with a new laser and several hours of my time. After listening to it I sold the Sony immediately (€685 on eBay!).
As said, the Rpi sound is fine, but is simply nowhere near to the sound quality my CDP delivers (to my ears, lol!).
Richard
All interesting experience, Richard, and I don't doubt what you're hearing for a second :)
As ever, these things are system-dependent.
I use a heavily modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC, which produces the best CD replay I've heard, by some margin (and I used to own a Naim CDS2/XPS2, and various other Naim CDPs before it, including the CDI), and the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC gets about 90% of the way towards reproducing what the Sony can do, but at considerably less cost (the Sony combo cost me approx £5.5k, which is still cheaper than the Naim player I used before it).
Obviously there's a real synergy in your system, with the CDI, which is absent with the RPi, and that's what's interesting and shows that nothing in this hobby can ever be written in stone! :exactly:
Btw, before dismissing the RPi as a 'serious' source, I'd implore you to try it with a quality linear PSU (which is how I'm currently judging and enjoying it), as that improves its performance considerably :cool:
The Paul Hynes SR3DR I use is superb (using his bespoke regulators), but it is £550.
Marco.
Yes Marco - I should add that my comments should not suggest the rpi is a poor audio source - it is certainly not, I just spent the last half hour flicking through 320kbps rips and I could happily live with this as a main digital source...if I didn't own the Naim :)
OK regarding the Sony - not familiar with the DAC, but 777 is very similar to the 707 I had (they share the same service manual). What digital out are you using on the 777?
All of this is a bit immaterial though - vinyl still beats all assuming source material is OK! :)
My system is in turmoil at the moment though - I replaced my modified LP12 with a serviced Lenco a few months back, and my modified Croft Micro II & DIY 211 valve hybrid mono blocks with the first Electrocompaniet pre/power combo a month back. I've got some GM70s coming for the power amps, their set up will see me reverting to what I am used too!
Oh, a DIY linear supply is on the cards too - but I may go a bit overboard and bypass the onboard RPI regulators, but checking technical information it seems the biggest limitation of RPI is the onboard clock, so still undecided
OK regarding the Sony - not familiar with the DAC, but 777 is very similar to the 707 I had (they share the same service manual). What digital out are you using on the 777?
The DAS-R1 DAC is where the magic lies! TDA1541 S2 multi-bit lurveliness, combined with huge PSUs, making the DAC alone weigh 20kg.... :eyebrows: The Audiocom mods are what make the combo special though, as the X-777 has been similarly 'doctored', so although you're familiar with the 707, I doubt it would've sounded anything like what I'm using here.
In terms of digital out, I'm using coaxial, with a specially constructed lead, designed for pro use in the broadcasting arena.
Marco.
I am using a 1amp linear psu(an aqavox type) and it seems fine using that as the hdd has its own psu. Think I found out why my image of Volumio went ape. RichB had unfortunately left his spotify account details inc password on it. I deleted it and think when I switched off then on again it went pair shaped.lol. seems fine now and I have found a way to rip new albums and transfer them to the hdd connected to the pi over the network. seems to work fine so thats a big bonus.:eyebrows:
Nice one, dude. Glad you got it sorted :)
Marco.
Paul Hynes
30-05-2015, 18:31
Hi Marco,
You have listed the normal retail price for the SR3DR (Double Regulated) power supply including the DC lead as £550, which is correct. Shipping costs and any funds transfer costs also add to this.
However, for an SR3DR-05 set up for the Pi and Pi-DAC+ with a DC lead and micro USB adapter I have attached an AoS forum member discount (in a similar way to the SL1200 power supply forum member discount) and the AoS member price is £450 plus shipping and any funds transfer costs like Paypal fees.
Regards
Paul
Ah, thanks for the clarification, Paul.
Since you're here, mate, could you also outline the design of the SR3DR and in what way it's been designed to improve the sonic performance of the RPi (and IQ-Audio DAC), including how its final iteration will differ again from the current circuit (i.e the one I'll eventually end up using)? :)
Marco.
cyclopse
30-05-2015, 18:48
Hi Richard,
Use the arrow keys on your Mac to navigate the various mixer options. The currently selected one will turn from white to red text in the options at the bottom of the screen.
PCM is your master volume - 86 is the 0dB level, anything into the red is boost. I have mine set to 96 which matches the output of my CD player. If you set this much higher you'll likely start to hear distorion. Most people seem to settle around 92-97 I think, but it's handy if you have another source (apart from vinyl) to compare it with.
Move to the right with the arrow key and you'll select 'DSP Prog'. This allows you to select one of the different filter profiles built into the DAC chip. Use up and down arrow to change the value as you would with the volume levels. I've settled on Low latency IIR with de-emphasis. There are changes in presentation for all profiles. You may find another one works better for you, so it's worth having a listen to them all. This one is definitely worth playing with.
The next one along - Playback - gives you a -6dB attenuation if set to 0 and no attenuation if set to 100 (these are the only two values). I can't really see a reason for setting this to -6dB if you have your PCM level set correctly.
The next one along is Playback Boost, which gives a further 0.8dB of gain. This one is subtle and again is an on/off switch. Mine is on, but I don't think it makes much difference.
The rest of the options are mostly concerned with muting periods and how things are handled if there is a problem. Leave these set as they are.
Once you exit (Escape key), it's best to do a soft reboot of the Pi, either from the Web interface or just type:
sudo reboot
from the terminal. This ensures your settings have been saved. If you remove power rather than do a soft reboot, the previous settings will return after the next reboot.
I was thinking a sticky would be a good idea....
Many thanks for the Low Latency IIR with de-emphasis tip. Sound stage wider now and greater separation.
Regards
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
Another tip (if you're using Volumio) is to play around with the 'Sound Quality Tweaks', in the system settings menu. My preference is for 'ACX'. The others also differ slightly from the default setting, so it's worth having a play :)
Marco.
The biggest stress put on any electrical equipment is that induced when it's switched on
Marco.
Possibly, certainly if their switched on in loaded state (i.e. connected tuner already on or CD playing with volume open)
Components have a calculated operational life; leaving amps on 24/7 (or PCs for that matter) is potentially wasting 2/3 of that life and IMV effectively negates any stress incurred switching them on once a day by a long chalk.
I guess an 'agree to differ' situation ;)
Only pieces of gear I leave on are my Monarchy dac, as its designed to remain on and doesn't even have a switch, and my regenerator which seems to be happy enough on tick over. Everything else is running through the Belkin and goes on and off in order when it's switched on.
I guess an 'agree to differ' situation...
Most definitely :)
My view, based on considerable experience, is that hi-fi equipment works better (i.e sounds better) and lasts longer, when left in 'operational mode', doing what it's been designed to do, than constantly being switched on and off.
As testament to that fact, my CDP and DAC are 28 years old (both bought second-hand), and for the last ten years I've owned them, they've been switched on 24/7 - and they're still working! The previous owner did the same as me. I have plenty of other equipment like that, too.... ;)
Mind you, they don't make 'em like they used to!
Marco.
I am using a 1amp linear psu(an aqavox type) and it seems fine using that as the hdd has its own psu. Think I found out why my image of Volumio went ape. RichB had unfortunately left his spotify account details inc password on it. I deleted it and think when I switched off then on again it went pair shaped.lol. seems fine now and I have found a way to rip new albums and transfer them to the hdd connected to the pi over the network. seems to work fine so thats a big bonus.:eyebrows:
Doh:doh: apologies for that Grant, should have reimaged the SD card for you but pleased you got there in the end.
killie99
31-05-2015, 11:07
got volumio working so thought I'd try picoreplayer. Flashed a new card and it shows up in my lms as picore but I'm getting no sound. Sound level is set as 100% in lms and if I switch to my Logitech touch everything I'd fine. Anyone any idea what could be up?
got volumio working so thought I'd try picoreplayer. Flashed a new card and it shows up in my lms as picore but I'm getting no sound. Sound level is set as 100% in lms and if I switch to my Logitech touch everything I'd fine. Anyone any idea what could be up?
Nope, not a clue. I had exactly the same experience but with Volumio - everything looked fine I could see it on the network etc but no sound. Switched to Rune Audio, and It worked! Who knows why....
killie99
31-05-2015, 11:42
fixed it, school boy error ..... the sound was set to output from the rpi's analogue port in squeezelite rather than the iqaudio
piCorePlayer doesn't seem to upsample by default but there are an array of settings for squeelite to set it up. However, for some reason, its quirky and the settings don't always 'stick'. With a lot of mucking about I've managed to force it into submission.
Here's what I did:
In Upsample Settings I put in mI then saved it.
Reload the page and add X to the Upsample Settings so: mIX
Save it then reboot.
With the IQAudio DAC+ this forces it to upsample to 192KHz
If you want to keep up sampling to an Integer value for 44.1 material go back to the settings page for squeezelite and type -u (minus u) in the various input box
Save it, then in the max sample rate box type 176400 Save it and reboot.
To check what is actually being o/p ssh into the RPi (user: tc password: nosoup4u) and cut n paste this into the command line:
sudo cat /proc/asound/card1/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params
What ever you do do not be tempted to use 352800 in the max sample rate box, you'll need to re image your SD card ;) :D
The mIX setting is interesting, the first letter defines how much SOX suppresses alias artefacts from the up sampling process, you can set v h m l or q (Very High, High, Medium, Low and Quick) I think the higher settings take more processing to achieve and may not be the best sounding, h or m seem to work well.
The second letter chooses which type of filtering you use and so far I've found this make a very noticeable change to the sound, you can choose M for minimum phase, I for Intermediate or L for Linear I prefer the intermediate filter, the X ensures the up sampling is done to the highest rate set IE 176400
Adrian Smith's (a.k.a. Triode) "Squeeze on Arch" has a pretty good web interface page for setting up resampling, making it as simple as possible:
http://s15.postimg.org/qorry7qpz/soa_resample.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/qorry7qpz/)
See : https://github.com/SqueezeOnArch
The settings are all listed here for those interested:
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man1/squeezelite.1.html
Paul Hynes
31-05-2015, 15:55
Since you're here, mate, could you also outline the design of the SR3DR and in what way it's been designed to improve the sonic performance of the RPi (and IQ-Audio DAC), including how its final iteration will differ again from the current circuit (i.e the one I'll eventually end up using)? :)
Hi Marco,
The SR3DR power supply is an upgraded version of the SR3 using two high performance discrete component voltage regulators in cascade. I have been using this regulation cascade technique since the 1980s on analogue equipment and since the 1990s on digital audio equipment. There is also additional energy storage capacitance for a more robust dynamic response to load transients. It adds to the cost, but the benefits are considerable. Indeed, your PH head amp and SL1210 use this regulation technique in their power supply system. To achieve the greatest benefit both of the regulators should be designed for fast transient response and settling time to load current change, wide operating bandwidth, and very low noise so that the first regulator in the cascade (the pre-regulator) does not restrict the performance of the second regulator in the cascade (the output or post-regulator).
The benefits are :-
1) A large increase in supply line rejection of mains born interference, which reduces the susceptibility of the equipment being powered to poor mains quality.
2) A large reduction in AC to DC rectification artefacts that can cause interference with sonic information presentation particularly the important low-level information.
3) Improved rejection of load transient return current feed-through back onto the mains reducing interaction with other equipment via the mains.
4) A large reduction in back ground noise within the sound field allowing greater low level information clarity.
5) Improved dynamic load change stability providing a more stable sound stage presentation particularly when the music gets busy and dynamic.
The SR3DR-05 is my first stage of upgrade for the Pi-DAC and it provides a 5 volt supply rail capable of delivering 2.5A continuously and up to 20A transient delivery so there should be no Pi operating dropouts caused by lack of power.
The second stage of Pi power supply upgrade follows the internal regulation upgrade path I used on the Technics SL1210, by replacing on board regulation with higher quality voltage regulators. This provides lower noise regulation with a much wider operating frequency range, which results in lower interaction between the various sections of the Pi motherboard and lower background noise level in the system. With reduced system noise comes better low level information clarity, as less noise is riding on the signals passed on to following stages in the system. The dynamic signal integrity is also improved further as there is less voltage fluctuation on the supply rails to affect the signal processing circuits. Essentially you can expect similar levels of sound quality improvement that your SL1210 regulator upgrades provided.
Regards
Paul
That's brilliant, Paul. Thanks a lot for taking time to outline the design and explain the sonic benefits of your off-board PSU for the RPi, which I'm sure many will find very interesting :thumbsup:
The SR3DR certainly tackles some fundamental issues (not solely attributable to the RPi), mainly relating to noise suppression, which require addressing in computer audio sources, in order that they can ultimately sound as musically satisfying as a top-notch CDP or turntable - indeed that is precisely what I've heard with the introduction of the SR3DR in my own RPi set-up, so I very much look forward to 'stage 2', and the further transforming of this humble little device (at still practical cost) into a truly world class music source!
The AoS 'SPPV principle' at its best...
I'll post some pictures of the unit tomorrow, so that members can see just how well 'screwed together' it is, and outline what I perceive as its major sonic benefits, so that folks will understand that it's worth every penny of what you're charging for it :cool:
Marco.
Canetoad
31-05-2015, 23:22
I hardly think that a PSU that costs about 5 times the cost of the RPi/DAC+ hardware to be good value for money! :stalks:
What if, Bernie, it succeeds in creating a music streamer that outperforms £4-5k designs from some leading high-end manufacturers, but at a cost FAR less than that? Think why we modify Techies...
I never got into the RPi simply because it was cheap - I got into it because it was bloody good, and I could hear its latent sonic potential, which I knew could be exploited ;)
You cannot judge the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC on price alone - you have to judge it on its inherent sonic prowess.
Marco.
Surely there is room for both camps. If the Pi is dramatically improvable them why not; people spend thousands upgrading relatively cheap TT's to get the best out of them
Precisely, which is why I mentioned the Techy: a T/T that can be bought second-hand for a few hundred quid, but with judicious modifying, turned into a veritable giant-killer.
I see the exact same thing with the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC, which is why that in time it will turn into another AoS 'SPPV favourite', for folks with discerning ears, keen to get the biggest bang for their buck [count me in] :)
Plenty of people are also happy using stock Techies, and no doubt also stock RPis, but the sonic potential is there in both items to be exploited by those with the vision and wherewithal to do so (or not, as the case may be). Happy days, I say! :cool:
Marco.
I hardly think that a PSU that costs about 5 times the cost of the RPi/DAC+ hardware to be good value for money! :stalks:
+1 ~£500 is hardly SPPV Marco and how much will the second phase of the RPi PSU cost. This is nothing like modifying the Techie, there's no mechanical element to it and it's a huge stretch of the imagination to think ultra low noise PSUs will make anywhere as much difference as tweaking the anti-alias filters and slopes or even using a better implemented DAC than the PCM5122 in the first place..
+1 ~£500 is hardly SPPV Marco and how much will the second phase of the RPi PSU cost. This is nothing like modifying the Techie...
We'll just have to agree to disagree then, Neal.
For me, it's this simple...
Linn Akurate DS (which I've heard on numerous occasions) = £4.5k. RPi/IQ-Audio DAC + Paul Hynes SR3DR PSU (which I use, and pisses all over the former) = £700
Saving = £3800.
Therefore, RPi/IQ-Audio DAC + SR3DR PSU = high-end music streaming 'on the cheap' [certainly compared with the above], so what's not to like?? :)
The comparison with the Techy is quite simply in terms of it, when judiciously modified, outperforming acknowledged 'high-end' T/Ts, at many times the price. In that respect, the RPi (as outlined above) does *precisely* the same thing to acknowledged 'high-end' music streamers. Simples! :cool:
Which bit of that are you not getting?
Marco.
...and how much will the second phase of the RPi PSU cost.
Oh, and to answer that, a damn sight less than the £3800 change I've got left over, from not having bought a Linn Akurate DS (or similar example of computer audio 'badge-fi')!! ;)
Marco.
Which bit of that are you not getting?
Marco.
I could ask you the same question. Just because the Linn is 4.5K doesn't make this PSU SPPV, I think your idea of SPPV is very different to the rest of us. An LDA PSU at less cost is as equally proficient at supplying a clean regulated 5v and Stan has been including ultra low noise supplies and filtering inside his DACs for a while now...now that is SPPV.
Paul Hynes
01-06-2015, 12:05
Perhaps a little perspective is required on the perceived value of the Rpi, Pi-dac and SR3DR power supply.
The RPi was designed for educational purposes, at least initially, and the concept taken on board by the major electronics distributors, allowing a massive market potential from the start. Because of this, development costs and business overhead costs can be spread over many tens of thousands of sales. Economy of scale, allowing manufacture in the far east, plus the originator’s charitable stance, have provided a stripped down basic computer motherboard at a very low cost indeed.
A nice side effect of the minimalist design of this motherboard is that it has the ability to process audio data streams in a benign way that allows very good audio performance. Products with this price/ability equation are in fact quite rare.
Similarly, the Pi-dac has been designed with a quality Burr Brown DAC chip for relatively low cost and the whole package creates an audio streamer of high performance level as standard.
The standard power supply for the Rpi is a switching power supply because this allows the required performance level for general computing operations. Low cost switching power supplies are generally less than ideal for audio processing systems as, in my experience, they can be quite noisy, have a relatively high, non-linear output impedance with frequency and have poor transient response and settling time when dealing with high frequency data processing systems, all of which are parameters that affect sound quality adversely. That said the standard power supply does give reasonable audio performance especially when the cost is considered and this may be entirely satisfactory for many.
However there are those of us who want better performance than is available with the stock kit and a power supply upgrade in an obvious choice to begin an upgrade path, as it can give a considerable reward when done well.
There are many options of power supply upgrade from very basic to seriously engineered offerings by a number of designers. A basic linear regulated power supply using an LM317 type regulator should offer some improvement over the stock switching power supply, but an LM317 is an industrial component and it has it’s limitations when used for audio equipment. In my experience, no matter what you do to an LM317 it will not elevate the performance into the highest level for audio equipment. This is a shame as it is a cheap component and it allows the production of a relatively low cost power supply.
To get performance into the high-end a much more advanced design is necessary. Taking performance to the highest level in any field requires time and costs money for development and this cost has to be spread over the number of sales. The material cost of the resultant design will also be significantly higher. Add the business operating costs to the equation and the cost of provision is now at a level where only keen enthusiasts will consider a purchase. Economy of scale is severely restricted under these circumstances as the product is hand built one at a time. People also need wages and some profit is also necessary to ensure further development. This is nothing new and it has been discussed before on the forum.
In essence, it is your choice whether you are prepared to accept a basic performance level in your system, or whether you want to pursue a higher level of performance, albeit at higher cost. I am not forcing anyone, in any way, which product to buy, just providing an option I would be happy with in my own system, at a cost that is viable for a small business, manufacturing in the UK, to provide. My standards are very high, so you will not find me offering a poor value.
Regards
Paul
Paul Hynes
01-06-2015, 12:10
Neal,
As you have not had the experience of using the SR3DR and comparing it to an LDA power supply, I would suggest you are not qualified to make a judgement on the relative performance of the two power supplies.
Regards
Paul
Neal,
As you have not had the experience of using the SR3DR and comparing it to an LDA power supply, I would suggest you are not qualified to make a judgement on the relative performance of the two power supplies.
Regards
Paul
You can suggest all you want Paul but I can make a judgment on what I feel is true SPPV. I take it you've compared the SR3DR to the LDA supply, would you care to provide details on the relative performance of the two supplies?
Paul Hynes
01-06-2015, 13:14
Neal,
Without real time experience of the SR3DR you can only make an un-informed guess as to whether it offers value for money.
You can, of course, make a valid judgement on what you would be prepared to spend your money on and that is fine.
I have no idea how the SR3DR performs against any of the LDA power supplies and, consequently, I would not presume to pass judgement on whether the LDA power supplies are value for money, or whether they are better or worse than the SR3DR.
Regards
Paul
I could ask you the same question. Just because the Linn is 4.5K doesn't make this PSU SPPV, I think your idea of SPPV is very different to the rest of us.
We're at cross purposes here, Neal. I wasn't referring to the 'SPPV' of Paul's PSU (although, as he's outlined rather eloquently, I consider it very good in that respect), certainly in comparison with 'big name' commercial items purporting to fulfil a similar task.
The 'SPPV' I was referring to was that of the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC/PH SR3DR, as a combination, when compared with something such as a Linn Akurate DS, which I was in the market to buy before I discovered the RPi. Until that point, I hadn't heard an FBA source in my system that was up to the sonic standard that I demand from my source components - and I'd listened to plenty of different ones.
In my system, the RPi combo significantly outperforms the Linn (and also Naim versions I've heard, including others in a similar price bracket), and considering the humungous difference in cost, makes the the former a laughable bargain!!
Quite simply, when a £700 streamer outperforms a £4500 one, it can't be doing anything else other than offering high SPPV - and it was *that*, and that alone, which I was referring to before :)
Marco.
cyclopse
01-06-2015, 15:58
The piper calls the tune. If you prefer to stay with a mobile switch mode style supply thats fine. Then your comparing £70 with £4500 a considerable difference. Mine can now play 24/96, 24/192 and dsd with no issue. Moode will also have bbc radio stations soon. Very grateful Marco flagged it with the AOS community.
Regards
Stephen
Paul Hynes
01-06-2015, 16:12
I am also grateful for Marco’s disclosure about the Rpi performance. For selfish reasons, I am looking forward to screwing as much additional performance out of the Pi module as I can, as it looks like it has the potential to cope with all the main replay formats with high resolution. This is just what I need for my own system.
Regards
Paul
The RPi was designed for educational purposes, at least initially, and the concept taken on board by the major electronics distributors, allowing a massive market potential from the start. Because of this, development costs and business overhead costs can be spread over many tens of thousands of sales. Economy of scale, allowing manufacture in the far east, plus the originator’s charitable stance, have provided a stripped down basic computer motherboard at a very low cost indeed.
A nice side effect of the minimalist design of this motherboard is that it has the ability to process audio data streams in a benign way that allows very good audio performance. Products with this price/ability equation are in fact quite rare.
For me, that's it in a nutshell, which is why the RPi/IQ-Audio DAC deserves championing from the rooftops, not merely as an effective 'budget streaming solution', but when judiciously modified with a high-quality linear PSU, a highly capable high-end one, too! :)
Marco.
I have posted this on the AudioStandard page where, as you all know, MartinT has written some excellent instructions for setting-up Volumio.
...
Further to your excellent instructions for setting-up Volumio with the Pi, I was having difficulty with my Mac system in getting Volumio to 'see' the music files.
I used this:
http://www.hagensieker.com/styled-41/index.html
The only difference I had to make was in the IP address (I used, for example,: 192.168.1.123 instead of the smb://applesimac2.home which I got from the file sharing info)..Hope this helps,
BW
Richard.
Hey Paul,
It would be awesome to be able to somehow fit the Pi inside the case for the PSU making it one unit with the power connector inside the case and required connectors such as Ethernet, USB and audio outputs exposed on the outside of the case.
Or would that somehow be a bad idea?
Guy
I am currently using my Pi2 with my external USB DAC but want to try the IQ-Audio Pi-DAC+ as a comparison as it sounds like the way to go BUT I can't find anywhere that is currently selling it - everyone is out of stock - does anyone know where I can get one from?
Guy
I am currently using my Pi2 with my external USB DAC but want to try the IQ-Audio Pi-DAC+ as a comparison as it sounds like the way to go BUT I can't find anywhere that is currently selling it - everyone is out of stock - does anyone know where I can get one from?
Guy
Join the queues and bide your time. All out of stock vendors will get their new supplies at much the same time. Shortest queue is the only option or look for a S/H one.
Paul Hynes
02-06-2015, 10:23
Hi Guy,
I would be disinclined to have the mains transformer and rectification in the same enclosure as the Pi as stray field interaction is usually very difficult to deal with in a single enclosure. I usually keep the master supply with transformer and pre-regulation in a separate remote enclosure and then apply local regulation in the signal processing enclosure as close to the load as possible.
Regards
Paul
A few piccies of the superb Paul Hynes SR3DR in situ [Yes, it's the long sliver box with 'Paul Hynes Design' written on it]:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/901/0dQ7hi.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/913/UOK3hw.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/cDsSNQ.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/CfxuGo.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/rnDwCz.jpg
Works for me :cool:
Marco.
P.S For completeness, the big black box to the left is a Paul Hynes SR5 PSU, which powers the chunky sliver box to the right of the SR3DR, which is the Paul Hynes MC head amp I use with my moving-coil cartridges.
Looks very cool Marco - I'm thinking I may well go down this route myself. I have a question about how it works though.
As I understand it, the Pi2 has on board regulation which uses switching mode regulators - Are these removed/bypassed, and if not, do they have an effect on what the external PSU is doing?
Hi Richard,
That's probably more a question for Paul. I think that they are by-passed, and Paul's own bespoke regulators in the SR3DR are used instead. Hopefully Paul will come along soon though and answer your question :)
Glad you like the PSU. It looks great in the flesh and feels reassuringly 'chunky'. It certainly makes the RPi sound more finessed and 'grown up'. It's all about removing noise, as computers are inherently rather noisy buggers (and that's one of the things that can make digital replay sound 'hard').
Remove said noise as much as possible, and that's when the music starts coming through, and the whole sound as a result opens up and becomes more relaxed and 'musical'. It sounds simple, but it's precisely what's wrong with most FBA devices: not enough attention is paid to noise suppression.
The wall-wart switch-mode power supply, which comes with the RPi is pretty decent, but switching to the SR3DR is akin to the effect one would expect from a major amplifier upgrade: just much more subtlety and control, together with significantly increased resolution. It's a complete no-brainer! If you want to turn your RPi into a veritable high-end music streamer, that's how to do it :cool:
Marco.
Just to add this if it helps, which I received in a PM from Paul, in reference to 'what's in' the SR3DR:
Regarding the internal components etc. the transformer VA rating is 60VA and the regulator circuit topology is my standard PR3 (positive regulator 3) series regulator circuit as used in the standard SR3 power supply. The main difference is the additional regulator stage, which enhances the performance with regard to supply line rejection and reverse transfer interference rejection back to the mains supply from the Pi digital processing activity. The supply line rejection also applies to any noise and rectification ripple generated by the rectification process prior the regulation stages.
:)
Marco.
Paul Hynes
02-06-2015, 15:39
Hi Rich,
The plan is to remove the on board regulator chip and replace it with high performance regulators, preferably on the board, but this will depend on the actual current required by the individual supply rails, as this will dictate the size of regulator module I will have to use. I have some small high-speed regulator modules but space is quite restricted, so they might be better sited next to the Pi motherboard adjacent to the site of the original regulator chip. I will also remove any unnecessary components associated with the regulator chips that might interfere with the workings of the regulator upgrade.
Regards
Paul
Hi Guy,
I would be disinclined to have the mains transformer and rectification in the same enclosure as the Pi as stray field interaction is usually very difficult to deal with in a single enclosure. I usually keep the master supply with transformer and pre-regulation in a separate remote enclosure and then apply local regulation in the signal processing enclosure as close to the load as possible.
Regards
Paul
I thought that may be the case. As I can't find any decent cases for the Pi and I like things looking uniform and matching I thought it, from a purely cosmetic aspect, it might look quite cool. I guess if I bought a PSU from you maybe I could buy an empty case that I could somehow mod to fit the Pi (assuming that you would of course) :)
Based on your above comments, are you planning on offering a customised Pi that has been modified for better use with your PSUs or are you just thinking of modding your own?
Guy
Paul Hynes
02-06-2015, 18:24
Hi Guy,
I might be able to arrange something along the lines of a machined case if there is enough interest. This would not be viable as a one off because of the tooling set up charges.
If the Pi regulator upgrade is as successful as the SL1210 internal regulator upgrades I will be offering a modified Pi that has the 2nd level of regulation and the SR3 will be the master external power supply.
Regards
Paul
badsoden
03-06-2015, 10:26
Hi Guy,
I might be able to arrange something along the lines of a machined case if there is enough interest. This would not be viable as a one off because of the tooling set up charges.
If the Pi regulator upgrade is as successful as the SL1210 internal regulator upgrades I will be offering a modified Pi that has the 2nd level of regulation and the SR3 will be the master external power supply.
Regards
Paul
Hi Paul,
Tried sending you a PM but your inbox is full. I would be very interested in a machined case for my Raspberry PI and DAC board. Let me know if you go ahead and any more details if you get that far.
Thanks
Paul Hynes
03-06-2015, 13:34
Hi Chris,
I have cleared some space in my in box.
Ok, you and Guy have started the ball rolling for interest assessment for a machined case.
Is anyone else interested? If so please state your interest on my PHD thread at :-
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?38916-Raspberry-Pi-machined-case-interest&p=653528#post653528
This will avoid cluttering up the main Pi thread here.
Regards
Paul
Join the queues and bide your time. All out of stock vendors will get their new supplies at much the same time. Shortest queue is the only option or look for a S/H one.
Managed to get one :D
Really interested to see how it compares to using my Pi with my DAC!
Do you guys think it will be better - everyone seems to think it is great.
I will be using it with my Chord Chameleon Silver Plus interconnects - I hope these will match the DAC+ well and I don't have the problems some have had with interconnects.
montesquieu
03-06-2015, 16:26
Managed to get one :D
Really interested to see how it compares to using my Pi with my DAC!
Do you guys think it will be better - everyone seems to think it is great.
I will be using it with my Chord Chameleon Silver Plus interconnects - I hope these will match the DAC+ well and I don't have the problems some have had with interconnects.
Rather depends on your DAC I suspect!
I've been using Monster interconnects(2metre ones) and its been fine. My streaming was pretty good but this combo is better.
Rather depends on your DAC I suspect!
It's a Denon DA-300USB DAC with a LDA/MCRU PSU
tubehunter
04-06-2015, 08:37
I wondering if Gordon from Iqaudio could answer this
Dynamic Range Compression
Dynamic range compression (DRC) improves the overall listening experience. Typical music signals are
characterized by crest factors (the ratio of peak signal power to average signal power) of 12dB or more. To avoid
audible distortion due to clipping of peak signals, the gain of the DAC channel must be adjusted so as not to
cause hard clipping. As a result, the low applied gain during nominal periods causes the perception that the
signal is not loud enough. To overcome this problem, the DRC in the PCM512x continuously monitors the output
of the DAC Digital Volume control to detect its power level with respect to 0dB full-scale. When the power level is
low, the DRC increases the input signal gain to make it sound louder, and reduces the gain during peaks to
avoid hard clipping. The DRC enables louder audio during nominal periods with a clearer, more pleasant
listening experience.
the question being can this be disabled
also can the Purepath Studio settings be accessed
Managed to get one :D
Really interested to see how it compares to using my Pi with my DAC!
Do you guys think it will be better - everyone seems to think it is great.
I will be using it with my Chord Chameleon Silver Plus interconnects - I hope these will match the DAC+ well and I don't have the problems some have had with interconnects.
Lucky man.
New or S/H?
Note the interconnect experiences of others if you don't enjoy it. I found the Headphone output to HD600s very enjoyable.
I found it like a clearer window onto your music.
Lucky man.
New or S/H?
Note the interconnect experiences of others if you don't enjoy it. I found the Headphone output to HD600s very enjoyable.
I found it like a clearer window onto your music.
I got it direct from IQaudIO - it's arriving tomorrow :D
As I cant remember where I said I would do this I will post it in a few places..:D
just a wee update.I connected up my mf buffer to the rpi iqdac combo. Sounds different with more bass and better depth to the sound especially behind the speakers .. of course its a better than average buffer so cannot say what a Chinese one would do for it. I had a yaqin buffer but it was no match for this one..Will leave it in for a while then remove and see if I want it back or not. I hope i dont as I like it with my cd player and dont want to buy another
For anyone using Moode player on their rPi then Moode version 1.9 was tweeted as released a day ago.
Theadmans
05-06-2015, 18:56
As I cant remember where I said I would do this I will post it in a few places..:D
just a wee update.I connected up my mf buffer to the rpi iqdac combo. Sounds different with more bass and better depth to the sound especially behind the speakers .. of course its a better than average buffer so cannot say what a Chinese one would do for it. I had a yaqin buffer but it was no match for this one..Will leave it in for a while then remove and see if I want it back or not. I hope i dont as I like it with my cd player and dont want to buy another
...I have been running a Pink Floyd modified Music Fidelity X1OD buffer with my setup for a few years now - I know I shouldn't - but the damn thing sounds so good !!!!:lol: hthttp://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/1961/work-progress?page=15tp:// (http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/1961/work-progress?page=15tp://)
Ok so my pi experiments continue nicely and now I'm ready to try bypassing the pre and straight into my 300 SET as per Marco's very first post on the subject a billion posts ago.
Given that I'm happy with volume on the pre at a third(ish), i predict the volume direct into the power amp is going to smash the windows. I can dial it back in alsamixer and/or in LOS. Which is best? I've been led to believe software volume decreases quality... thoughts?
...I have been running a Pink Floyd modified Music Fidelity X1OD buffer with my setup for a few years now - I know I shouldn't - but the damn thing sounds so good !!!!:lol: hthttp://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/1961/work-progress?page=15tp:// (http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/1961/work-progress?page=15tp://)
Think mine is an x10 v3 ...they are pretty good buffers
OK, so I have the Pi-DAC+ now.
So far so good but more on that later.
One thing that I have noticed though is that the output level of DSD is a lot lower than other audio types. It also seems that the quality of DSD playback is not a good as my DAC however this is perhaps just because the level is lower and I have to adjust the volume before trying to compare to non-DSD audio.
Has anyone else noticed this?
Guy
The Black Adder
06-06-2015, 08:12
A quick question.
Can the Pi/Dac+ output a AES signal? I've recently bought a PPM unit that has (as well as audio inputs) XLR AES inputs, just wondering if it can be done, and the best way of going about it?
There are converters but anyone know which is best? In-line or powered types.
Stratmangler
06-06-2015, 08:56
A quick question.
Can the Pi/Dac+ output a AES signal? I've recently bought a PPM unit that has (as well as audio inputs) XLR AES inputs, just wondering if it can be done, and how?
What on earth is a PPM unit?
The Black Adder
06-06-2015, 09:44
What on earth is a PPM unit?
...lol PPM (Peak Program Meter) - It's a box wid sum VU meters. Basically to measure peak volume.
I've actually found a unit to convert SPDIF to AES using XLR (RS422). All I need to know now is can the Pi/Dac+ output SPDIF?
Are any of you using it with an external DAC? lol... I suppose that would negate the DAC+ card.
So can the PI/DAC+ co-exist producing both analogue (via the DAC+) and digital out (via the RPi)? If so, I'm guessing that it uses a USB port, do I need to switch a port on?
Stratmangler
06-06-2015, 10:04
...lol PPM (Peak Program Meter) - It's a box wid sum VU meters. Basically to measure peak volume.
I've actually found a unit to convert SPDIF to AES using XLR (RS422). All I need to know now is can the Pi/Dac+ output SPDIF?
Are any of you using it with an external DAC? lol... I suppose that would negate the DAC+ card.
So can the PI/DAC+ co-exist producing both analogue (via the DAC+) and digital out (via the RPi)? If so, I'm guessing that it uses a USB port, do I need to switch a port on?
The Pi does not have a SPDIF connection.
It requires a daughterboard to be fitted which will allow SPDIF output.
The SPDIF daughterboard fits in the same place the IQAudio DAC+ does, so there's no provision to switch quickly between SPDIF and DAC+ quickly.
You'd have to shut the Pi down and power off to replace the modules during a switch.
What have you got in mind with the peak program meter?
What are you looking to accomplish?
Canetoad
06-06-2015, 10:09
Instead of the Dac+ board you can buy a HiFiBerry Digi+ board, which outputs either toslink or coax spdif. I use one with a Caiman II DAC and it sounds better than the HiFiBerry DAC+, the equivalent of the DAC+ board from IQaudio.
I have just received an IQaudio DAC+ board and am about to compare it to both the Digi+/Caiman II and Dac+ I already have. Whichever sounds best will be staying in my system. :)
The Black Adder
06-06-2015, 10:20
Thanks chaps.
What I was thinking of doing was instead of using audio outputs, using SPDIF out for the source signal in to a mixer (but that's later) then the PPM and then in to a Reel to Reel.
Ali Tait
06-06-2015, 10:24
I get very good results plugging my DAC output directly into the R to R. Lots of good live stuff on Sky Arts. Some great recordings you can't get any other way.
Stratmangler
06-06-2015, 11:01
Thanks chaps.
What I was thinking of doing was instead of using audio outputs, using SPDIF out for the source signal in to a mixer (but that's later) then the PPM and then in to a Reel to Reel.
Where in the chain is the DAC?
The SPDIF on its own into a mixer is about as useful as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition.
Is there a company out there making a mixer with an integral DAC?
Stratmangler
06-06-2015, 11:07
I get very good results plugging my DAC output directly into the R to R. Lots of good live stuff on Sky Arts. Some great recordings you can't get any other way.
I have an EMU0404 USB ADC/DAC and sometimes I'll take the Toslink connection from my TV and connect it to the EMU.
I get very good results keeping it all in the digital domain.
Where in the chain is the DAC?
The SPDIF on its own into a mixer is about as useful as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition.
Is there a company out there making a mixer with an integral DAC?
Yup - I have an M-Audio mixer with a channel for SPDIF input .... there are probably more
Stratmangler
06-06-2015, 18:45
Yup - I have an M-Audio mixer with a channel for SPDIF input .... there are probably more
Thinking about it, my EMU0404 might perform such duties......
I'll have a little play and report back :)
Stratmangler
06-06-2015, 18:53
It works :)
All that's connected is the SPDIF and some analogue interconnects hanging out the back, plus an external power supply, so no USB connection to the PC is required.
Hello all. Calling clever people for a bit of guidance please. I'm now running the pi/iqaudio directly into the power amp. The replay is now absolutely remarkable... however there is a minor niggle.
At the end/beginning of each track there's a little double click, a bit like a pop on an LP. I assume this effect is audible because the system is running directly at full tilt (no physical pre) into a very efficient system.
I have tried the following:
Turning volume down in alsamixer and keeping LMS volume high
Keeping LMS volume low and alsamixer high (87)
Turning off upsampling.
None of these changes makes any difference.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I note that alsamixer has various mute and ramp down volume controls. Could one of these have some bearing on this?
Stratmangler
06-06-2015, 20:53
Could it be the DAC muting between tracks?
Which in turn would mean that the distro you're using may not support gapless playback, either that or it needs to be told to do it.
Thanks for that thought Chris, I think perhaps you're right and it's prompted me to experiment. It does seem that the pops are only there when at the very start and end of a 'playlist'. Since I've been loading tracks in LMS individually (to try the new set up with my favourite test tracks) I've been hearing the pops all the time. I've now tried a multiple track playlist and the pops are not there between all tracks, just the start and end. Result!
Thanks.
Stratmangler
06-06-2015, 21:21
LMS does support gapless playback with Squeezebox players.
It should do with Squeezelight and PiCorePlayer too.
I have noticed that my external DAC connected to my Squeezebox Touch gives a click when it switches between sample rates.
Instead of the Dac+ board you can buy a HiFiBerry Digi+ board, which outputs either toslink or coax spdif. I use one with a Caiman II DAC and it sounds better than the HiFiBerry DAC+, the equivalent of the DAC+ board from IQaudio.
I have just received an IQaudio DAC+ board and am about to compare it to both the Digi+/Caiman II and Dac+ I already have. Whichever sounds best will be staying in my system. :)
I got the HiFiBerry Digi+ too. (with the Output Trafo)
Connected to either the CaimanII+ or 326 FDA, everything just sounds great.
The 326 FDA is oh-so clean sounding and its clarity is outstanding.
But the CaimanII+ pips it in terms of overall musicality and better reproduction of frequency extremes.
Can't wait for your comparo impressions...
The Black Adder
07-06-2015, 07:36
I was getting a click to start with but it eventually sorted itself out... I might have updated the drive a few times I'm not sure. It plays through fine now and it's seamless.
May be a daft querstion but did you rip the tracks ok?
Love your photography btw :) -
Thanks!
Yeah tracks are well ripped, and it happens on Spotify too. I speny some hoours listening laste night and the behaviour isn't quite as I described. Theres a click on start and on end. No clicks between tracks on a playlist consisting of similarly ripped tracks (eg an album) but there are clicks when moving within a playlist between Spotify tracks and others. Lends to chris' dac observation last night. DAC taking on different setting perhaps.
tubehunter
07-06-2015, 13:30
The dac's PCM volume is set too low, your signal to noise is reduced.
Set the PCM to 86 = 0Db anything less is reducing your signal to noise.
Set both Playbacks to 100 = 2volt or 0 = 1volt if you set this to 0 = 1volt you can increase your PCM in Volumio and increase your signal to noise and reduce the clicks
I thought 86 (PCM) was 0db, Dunc?
Marco.
Thanks Duncan. PCM is at 85 - my alsamixer (picore) doesn't have an 86 (85 then 87). Playbacks are both up as you suggest. Clicks still there intermittently and the more I listen the less I am able to attribute them precisely to definable differences in track quality or suchlike. Anyway, I'll take this issue away for a few days while I experiment some more as I don't wish to become a 'click bore'.... though any further thoughts or suggestions are of course very welcome.
Simon
Hi Simon,
You can also set the PCM level out with of Alsamixer, simply by moving the (volume) dial up and down, in the Playback section of Volumio. That can easily be adjusted in increments of one, from 0-100. Therefore, if you want, set it to 86, using that process.
Simply keep the Hardware opinion enabled, and adjust the dial to 86, and leave it there. You can then disable Hardware, if you wish, and the system will always default to the 86 position, until you change it again :)
In terms of eradicating your 'clicks', make sure that the 'Buffer before play' option, in the Playback section of Volumio, is enabled (and thus set at 10%). If it is, try increasing it to 20%, and see what happens then :cool:
Marco.
Rather than use alsmaixer, you can set the IQAUDIO DAC+ volume level to +0db with this command:
amixer -c X sset PCM 86% -M
Where X is the "card" number, which may be, 0 or 1, depending on your setup. To decide the number, use this command:
aplay -l
If the results is this:
card 0: sndrpihifiberry [snd_rpi_hifiberry_dac], device 0: HifiBerry DAC HiFi pcm5102a-hifi-0 []
Then X is 0. Otherwise just use the card number returned by the command.
Busybee330
09-06-2015, 17:02
For those like me who are new to this , here is another interesting review , quite positive indeed :
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/05/23/review-raspberry-pi-2-as-music-streamer/
OK, so I have been trying the PI DAC+ for a few days or so and like it.
However, as my external DAC setup handles DSD and sounds just as good, if not better according to my wife, I am going to stick with that.
So I am going to stick the PI DAC+ and the clear smoked case for IQaudIO for sale if anyone is interested.
Guy
piCorePlayer doesn't seem to upsample by default but there are an array of settings for squeelite to set it up. However, for some reason, its quirky and the settings don't always 'stick'. With a lot of mucking about I've managed to force it into submission.
Here's what I did:
In Upsample Settings I put in mI then saved it.
Reload the page and add X to the Upsample Settings so: mIX
Save it then reboot.
With the IQAudio DAC+ this forces it to upsample to 192KHz
If you want to keep up sampling to an Integer value for 44.1 material go back to the settings page for squeezelite and type -u (minus u) in the various input box
Save it, then in the max sample rate box type 176400 Save it and reboot.
To check what is actually being o/p ssh into the RPi (user: tc password: nosoup4u) and cut n paste this into the command line:
sudo cat /proc/asound/card1/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params
What ever you do do not be tempted to use 352800 in the max sample rate box, you'll need to re image your SD card ;) :D
The mIX setting is interesting, the first letter defines how much SOX suppresses alias artefacts from the up sampling process, you can set v h m l or q (Very High, High, Medium, Low and Quick) I think the higher settings take more processing to achieve and may not be the best sounding, h or m seem to work well.
The second letter chooses which type of filtering you use and so far I've found this make a very noticeable change to the sound, you can choose M for minimum phase, I for Intermediate or L for Linear I prefer the intermediate filter, the X ensures the up sampling is done to the highest rate set IE 176400
Hi Neal, very useful reference post...:cool:
I've been having a play with piCorePlayer/Squeezelite's SoX upsampling capabilities using...
'vIsX:::28::'
...which the settings have taken first time, saved, and restarted with new settings...and it's working, at least I think it is ;)
I've used the above command...
To check what is actually being o/p ssh into the RPi (user: tc password: nosoup4u) and cut n paste this into the command line:
sudo cat /proc/asound/card1/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params
...and I see
tc@piCorePlayer:~$ sudo cat /proc/asound/card1/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params
access: RW_INTERLEAVED
format: S32_LE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 192000 (192000/1)
period_size: 3840
buffer_size: 15360
...so is this the current output rate, or what the DAC is capable of? My assumption from your post is that this is a real time sample of the output
Cheers for any clarification...:)
Edit;
Easily proven, just reset to no upsampling, restarted, and now back to...
tc@piCorePlayer:~$ sudo cat /proc/asound/card1/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params
access: RW_INTERLEAVED
format: S32_LE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 44100 (44100/1)
period_size: 882
buffer_size: 3528
...so it's obviously working :)
Now to see if it sounds any better or worse, and whether there are any synchronisation issues with my other players, due to the buffer size differentials :eyebrows:
Hi Will, yes thats the current sample rate being played....
Hi Will, yes thats the current sample rate being played....
:cool:
https://volumio.org/introducing-volumio-2/
Should be good! :)
Marco.
Think it sounds good... some of the terms are above my head but sure if its as easy to install and operate then I will be giving it a go...nice find Marco :)
Gordon@IQ
16-06-2015, 09:56
For all those still waiting, I will be placing 150 Pi-DAC+ on Tindie.com later today. I wanted to post here first to give you all a heads up.
At the same time, we'll be adding our new TI TAS5756M based Pi-DigiAMP+ board. This is in effect a combined Pi-DAC+ and 2x20w Pi-AMP+ class D amp but at a £25 or so saving over the previous pairing. It uses the same linux drivers as the Pi-DAC+ so software compatibility is already solved. We see the Pi-DigiAMP+ as being suitable for a small main listening environment or 2nd room system. Just add speakers.
Very best regards,
Gordon
For all those still waiting, I will be placing 150 Pi-DAC+ on Tindie.com later today. I wanted to post here first to give you all a heads up.
At the same time, we'll be adding our new TI TAS5756M based Pi-DigiAMP+ board. This is in effect a combined Pi-DAC+ and 2x20w Pi-AMP+ class D amp but at a £25 or so saving over the previous pairing. It uses the same linux drivers as the Pi-DAC+ so software compatibility is already solved. We see the Pi-DigiAMP+ as being suitable for a small main listening environment or 2nd room system. Just add speakers.
Very best regards,
Gordon
Hi Gordon, what's the situation with the DAC cases? Are you likely to have any in stock soon? :)
Will
Hi Gordon, what's the situation with the DAC cases? Are you likely to have any in stock soon? :)
Will
Just had a email from Tindie saying the cases are back in stock.
Just had a email from Tindie saying the cases are back in stock.
Cheers for the nod Barry...:cool:
Ordered...
Starterman
06-07-2015, 17:20
Just found this thread at a time when the DAC actually seems to be available and wifey is hoping for a "tidy up" of the considerable number of CDs lying around.
TBH I cannot be bothered to read 149 pages but a quick skim read seems to indicate the usual pattern:
Rave review of new computer audio thingy
An additional couple of seemingly positive reviews
A couple of less positive reviews
Endless discussion of settings and software versions
Emperor is seen to be wearing something but not much
So I decided to get my old SB3 (custom linear PSU) out and have a listen. I also used to own an SB+.
The sound - using the same DAC** and digital cable - is like MP3 compared to my ancient Arcam CDP as transport.
I've also had an Aurender on loan along with a silly price digital cable that needed a battery. This sounded pretty much identical to my Arcam and homemade digital cable as a transport.
Sorry to be so negative chaps, but is this new flavour of the month piece of kit going to be up there with the Aurender and Arcam. or is it going to be a damp squib like the SB3?
** The dac is one of these but with special analogue supplies (and no crappy toroidal transformer):
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/kits-modules-diy-dac/audiophonics-dac1796-dac-24bit-192khz-cs8416-pcm1796-p-4993.html
Sorry to be so negative chaps, but is this new flavour of the month piece of kit going to be up there with the Aurender and Arcam. or is it going to be a damp squib like the SB3?
Dunno, but surely it's cheap enough to try and find out whether it makes the grade as far as your ears/system are concerned? It's of no interest to me, personally, as I'm sorted in the streaming area and anyway use CDs 90% of the time.
Starterman
06-07-2015, 18:33
Cheap yes, but I have several cupboards full of inexpensive emperor's clothes!!!
montesquieu
06-07-2015, 18:41
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo41/TravelinLite/Ben_Troll_Spray.jpg (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/TravelinLite/media/Ben_Troll_Spray.jpg.html)
Your decision, Dave, to reject it, but the RPi is hardly flavour of the month or represents 'emperors new clothes' syndrome. Many folks have been happy users now for quite some time, and no doubt will continue to be for a long time to come (me included)! :)
Marco.
Just found this thread at a time when the DAC actually seems to be available and wifey is hoping for a "tidy up" of the considerable number of CDs lying around.
TBH I cannot be bothered to read 149 pages but a quick skim read seems to indicate the usual pattern:
Rave review of new computer audio thingy
An additional couple of seemingly positive reviews
A couple of less positive reviews
Endless discussion of settings and software versions
Emperor is seen to be wearing something but not much
So I decided to get my old SB3 (custom linear PSU) out and have a listen. I also used to own an SB+.
The sound - using the same DAC** and digital cable - is like MP3 compared to my ancient Arcam CDP as transport.
I've also had an Aurender on loan along with a silly price digital cable that needed a battery. This sounded pretty much identical to my Arcam and homemade digital cable as a transport.
Sorry to be so negative chaps, but is this new flavour of the month piece of kit going to be up there with the Aurender and Arcam. or is it going to be a damp squib like the SB3?
** The dac is one of these but with special analogue supplies (and no crappy toroidal transformer):
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/kits-modules-diy-dac/audiophonics-dac1796-dac-24bit-192khz-cs8416-pcm1796-p-4993.html
Not sure I understand what you are saying. It sounds like you have found that you dont like the sound of a squezebox feeding (via spdiff maybe?) your £35 DAC. How does that relate to the sound of a Pi connected to a dac via i2s?
Starterman
07-07-2015, 07:38
Not sure I understand what you are saying. It sounds like you have found that you dont like the sound of a squezebox feeding (via spdiff maybe?) your £35 DAC. How does that relate to the sound of a Pi connected to a dac via i2s?
My conclusion is that the SB is a poor digital source via SPDIF. The audiophonics DAC has some jitter rejection courtesy of its CS8416 but even so, the SB3 is poor.
I2S is less prone to jitter as as interface, but if the source is jittery it cannot fix it.
The PCM5122 is a voltage o/p DAC generally considered to be less preferable to a current o/p DAC (like the PCM1796).
I have managed to get the Audiophonics DAc to sound as good as the TDA1541A DAC inside the (modded) Arcam, and possibly better. So what I'm looking for a digital source that performs as well as the Aurender (silly money, huge and ugly) and the Arcam.
I could hack into I2S of the PCM1796 DAC so I think the Pi is worth a try.
Well you did last 65,000,000 years!
Starterman
07-07-2015, 07:56
http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo41/TravelinLite/Ben_Troll_Spray.jpg (http://s360.photobucket.com/user/TravelinLite/media/Ben_Troll_Spray.jpg.html)
You get the T-shirt:
http://img.printfection.com/1/240/11325131/XAiYV.jpg
Starterman
07-07-2015, 08:00
Your decision, Dave, to reject it, but the RPi is hardly flavour of the month or represents 'emperors new clothes' syndrome. Many folks have been happy users now for quite some time, and no doubt will continue to be for a long time to come (me included)! :)
Marco.
Thanks Marco, If you followed my erratic logic in the post above I think I'll give it a try, but keep the known-good-DAC.
Stratmangler
07-07-2015, 13:29
My conclusion is that the SB is a poor digital source via SPDIF. The audiophonics DAC has some jitter rejection courtesy of its CS8416 but even so, the SB3 is poor.
It's certainly not as good as a Squeezebox Touch.
I've just dug out my old SB3 and given it a whirl. The SB3 sounds OK, but the Touch is easily recognised as being the superior transport.
Not sure about the Touch but both the SB2 & 3 SPDIF is crippled by the use of an inline SMD inductor used to reduced RFI, it screws up the impedance badly. Bypassing it or replacing it with a wire link makes a noticeable improvement.
The Black Adder
07-07-2015, 17:17
I've not looked back after getting the Pi/IQdac... it's simply superb!
I do have a cd player but I've not used it since I got this.
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