View Full Version : Car (or bike) Chat!
Back to the Hybrid or not to hybrid discussion earlier.
An interesting article from someone who is probably closer to what is going on than me, and probably more articulate on the subject.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-10935441/Why-avoid-plug-hybrid-cars.html
I would say that the person writing the article is likely to have a conscious bias.
I've just changed jobs and am now going to be on the road a fair bit. My company has a salary sacrifice scheme, and it looks a good way to cost effectively lease an EV. Problem is around 10 of my clients I will need to visit are over 150 miles away, which means either I need an expensive long-range vehicle or have to factor in recharging when I get there or en-route. https://ev-database.uk/cheatsheet/range-electric-car I guess I could get a lower cost EV and use my wife's (diesel) car for the longer trips and she would then use the EV. A PHEV that does 50 miles on electric (my daily commute when I am in either of the two offices I work from) would be ideal, but such a beast doesn't seem to exist - restricted to about 30 miles max from what I can see.
I guess on balance I'm probably best to stick with my ageing VW diesel for another few months and see what happens on the EV front.
AJSki2fly
27-06-2022, 21:06
I've just changed jobs and am now going to be on the road a fair bit. My company has a salary sacrifice scheme, and it looks a good way to cost effectively lease an EV. Problem is around 10 of my clients I will need to visit are over 150 miles away, which means either I need an expensive long-range vehicle or have to factor in recharging when I get there or en-route. https://ev-database.uk/cheatsheet/range-electric-car I guess I could get a lower cost EV and use my wife's (diesel) car for the longer trips and she would then use the EV. A PHEV that does 50 miles on electric (my daily commute when I am in either of the two offices I work from) would be ideal, but such a beast doesn't seem to exist - restricted to about 30 miles max from what I can see.
I guess on balance I'm probably best to stick with my ageing VW diesel for another few months and see what happens on the EV front.
A Tesla model 3 on salary sacrifice will be around £400 a month lease. Go onto zap-map.com and select just Tesla superchargers, or the Tesla supercharger map, you can then see them in relation to your trips. you may find you can easily get to a 150 mile client and just do a quick tip up charge. 15 mins you would get you 25kwh around 90-100 miles range.
It really is easy Peary!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks Adrian, that’s a good point. Having filled up the VW today (not even in the red) it was £115 so I guess it would pretty much pay for itself…
I've just changed jobs and am now going to be on the road a fair bit. My company has a salary sacrifice scheme, and it looks a good way to cost effectively lease an EV. Problem is around 10 of my clients I will need to visit are over 150 miles away, which means either I need an expensive long-range vehicle or have to factor in recharging when I get there or en-route. https://ev-database.uk/cheatsheet/range-electric-car I guess I could get a lower cost EV and use my wife's (diesel) car for the longer trips and she would then use the EV. A PHEV that does 50 miles on electric (my daily commute when I am in either of the two offices I work from) would be ideal, but such a beast doesn't seem to exist - restricted to about 30 miles max from what I can see.
I guess on balance I'm probably best to stick with my ageing VW diesel for another few months and see what happens on the EV front.
i can get well over 300 with my driving style in summer, but its a fair bit lower in winter etc. you have to take it into acount. good thing with teslas are their charging infostructure. although you would need to look at your areas to make sure. you could get by with a cheaper one if the normal fast chargers are plentiful in areas you'll be driving. i probably wouldnt get a phev. govt are going to make them financially unattractive shortly. get a home charger and a full ev.
Over 200mpg Grant.
This reduces on a run, but mine is not a pure hybrid, but a PHEV.
Places I go to regularly don’t have a decent charge point, so I am not ready to go 100% electric yet.
thought it was tbh kevin but didnt want to state as high and be proven wrong lol. great your still getting good figures.
You get good figures when running 100% electric most of the time.
However, in the time I have owned the car, my current average is 94.18 mpg. This takes into account the long motorway runs, including those I have left my destination with a flat battery.
I drive at about 135 km/h (GPS) on the motorway, so I am.happy with the economy.
You get good figures when running 100% electric most of the time.
However, in the time I have owned the car, my current average is 94.18 mpg. This takes into account the long motorway runs, including those I have left my destination with a flat battery.
I drive at about 135 km/h (GPS) on the motorway, so I am.happy with the economy.
think its 130 limit over there? so your speeding miladdo..your nicked!! lol
Yes, but you don't get done until 138. There is a tolerance, that I drive within.
AJSki2fly
28-06-2022, 14:44
Thanks Adrian, that’s a good point. Having filled up the VW today (not even in the red) it was £115 so I guess it would pretty much pay for itself…
From that point yes it would and you would be helping the planet a little, every little bit helps! If you want more savings it would need a bit of investment see below.
Sling 6-8 Solar PV panels on the roof about £200 each for efficient ones each giving 390wh at full chat, a simple DC to AC inverter (£1K), a Zappi or OHME EV charger(Inteligent Octopus compatible) about£1K fitted, pay a Solar electrical bod to wire it up and jobs a goodun'. You will charge from Solar for nothing for around 8 months a year if parked on the drive, at least and any spare will supplement you electric needs in the home, if you need charging over night a move to Intelligent Octopus(23:30 to 05:00 cheap electric) or alternatively OVOEnergy Drive plans (24 hour cheap charging) and you will charge up at 7.5p/kwh with Octopus or around 5p/kwh with OVOEnergy, other suppliers offer EV charging as well. If you select a Hybrid AC/DC Inverter carefully you can scale up in the future and add batteries and more solar PV and become less dependent on the grid like us.
If you need more info just PM me.
PS Personally I would avoid EDF like the plague, I had major issues concerning persistent threats and harassment from them last year for a long time and we had already left them, resulting in an OFGEM case against them, which we won and received two lots of compensation, and I hate them vehemently!!!
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2022, 06:19
I have been looking at a small helix sail driven turbine, only 1.3m tall, it will start to generate power with wind speed as low as 8mph and will continue to do so in a light breeze, it outputs 1-4kwh, so over 24 hours at 1kwh it would easily be enough to run our entire house. They are £1200 plus fitting, we are considering as a additional feed to our batteries in the winter primarily.
Is this the sort of thing you're considering? As a normal solar pv set up outputs 4kW (max permissible in a domestic setting I think) the cost/benefit ratio of your idea stacks nicely. And a lot less of an eyesore than solar panels. It'll be interesting to see how you get on.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/g4UAAOSwslRaq2is/s-l400.jpg
AJSki2fly
29-06-2022, 08:49
Is this the sort of thing you're considering? As a normal solar pv set up outputs 4kW (max permissible in a domestic setting I think) the cost/benefit ratio of your idea stacks nicely. And a lot less of an eyesore than solar panels. It'll be interesting to see how you get on.
Hi Steve
No I found this one, Test ATLASX 430mm diameter by 1180mm tall, I originally found a helix based one but these seem to have a better spec, TESUP turbinse are used by the military so are pretty robust. They also do an Atlas 2.0 3 blade model but a 1m by 1.1m. There is a huge variety of Wind Turbines out there, I am not clear as to what type is the best in terms of efficiency, all I know is the propeller type tend to be noisier, the helix designs can be very efficient and quiet, as can the one I like, the type of generator and the quality of the bearings used also has a big impact. Wind turbines are not that complex in reality, basically you could take a simple generator mount it and put a blade on it and wait for the wind to turn it, there are various DIYers out there who have doe this sort of thing, nut I doubt many will be very efficient.
https://www.tesup.co.uk/product-page/atlasx-wind-turbine-generator-house
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/1c70fd_c4784b6590a044a3a000bb4e218dace8~mv2.gif
Unless you live on top of a windy hill you probably want to check out the amount of wind you get over the winter months with one of these https://www.weathershop.co.uk/5-in-1-bresser-colour-wifi-weather-station#tab-label-description There is some very good statistical wind data out there on the net for local areas, but you need to be aware there the wind power you get can vary greatly by what is around you, we all know the effect of walking around a building in a city and nearly getting blown over(because it is vortexing and accerating) and then you go around the next corner and its dead calm.
I have been told that you should position the anemometer at the centre point of where the blades of the wind turbine would be mounted and take measurements, and experiment with positions until you find the best practical spot. Having done so it is best to take measurements over the period you want to generate electricity to determine if it will meet you needs. If you are going to rely on it on a daily basis to top the batteries or run the house then you may be disappointed, but in a reasonably good site then there if you use it with batteries to store excess then you likely to get a high success.
As I said previously I am mainly looking at it to supplement the Solar PV throughout the winter months, realistically it may achieve 60-80% electric power needs through the winter, there will be days with no or very low wind. About 2/3 of the year our electricity needs are fully met by the Solar PV, the remaining 1/3 mid November through to mid March is our highest grid usage, around 2500-3000Kwh, which is £1100(inc VAT) at 35p/kwh. Based on what we have seen so far with the Solar and looking at UK Solar data for our are we should still generate 5-10kwh/day from the Solar PV, so being cautious we will take 7Kwh over 120 days which is 840Kwh. This means we need about 2200kwh from the Wind Turbine, or on average 18kwh/day, I think over a 24 hour period with a fair wind:lol: this is achievable, there will be dead calm days obviously but one would hope this would also be sunny days. I reckon that realistically we may end up having to pay for around 600-800Kwh of electricity through the winter, so I am hopeful the bill over the 4 month period would be £220-290 at 35p/kwh. If I am right then the Wind Turbine is paid back for in electric bill saving in less than 2 years. I am reasonably confident in this based on what I hoped for with the Solar PV/battery installation and what we are getting to date, it is within +-5% depending on Solar conditions.
Getting totally off grid is very difficult to achieve, there are some who have done so locally but generally they are farmers who do not have planning restrictions and can invest more. I think that as technology improves and equipment and batteries become more efficient then cost effectiveness and
That looks good and I'm pretty sure would cover almost all my power needs, calm days are very rare here. Would pay for itself in two years, less once leccy prices go up again in October. Just a shame I would not get planning consent for it.
dave2010
29-06-2022, 09:13
Back to the Hybrid or not to hybrid discussion earlier.
An interesting article from someone who is probably closer to what is going on than me, and probably more articulate on the subject.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-10935441/Why-avoid-plug-hybrid-cars.htmlOne problem with this "debate" is that the manufacturers and marketeers deliberately (I think) use the word "hybrid" so that the public think that all hybrid cars are environmentally friendly. While that may be true in the sense that a hybrid car - which combines an ICE with motor/generators is possibly better than a pure ICE car, it muddies the waters substantially. Hence we now see adverts for "self charging hybrids" - a diabolical way to try to bamboozle people.
OTOH plug-in hybrids may offer the best of both worlds, or the worst of both worlds, depending on your point of view. For city dwellers probably using a car is something they shouldn't do anyway - at least in the UK, though in other countries there may not be a viable option. For suburbanites, or people who do many short journeys, but occasional long trips, then a plug-in hybrid covers the bases - though does so with extra weight - the weight of the battery and electric motors if running on petrol/diesel, or the weight of the engine if running on fuel - and that isn't a great thing.
However currently pure EVs do have limited range compared to ICE cars - a small ICE probably has a range comparable to the better EVs, while hardly any EVs can do really long trips without recharging.
Looking at energy problems on a country wide basis, vehicles are important, but not necessarily more so than other aspects of consumption. Home insulation and switching to heat pumps - if possible [which it often isn't] may be better things to concentrate on, as well as generally more effective use of energy - say for industry and commerce.
If every car owner switched to electric vehicles right now, I doubt that the electricity grid would cope - and even with planned ramping up of electricity generation and distribution, it might take 100 years before a viable infrastructure could satisfy demand. Also, for larger vehicles, there may still be a need to have petrol or diesel trucks and lorries. Note however that Ford is now supplying an EV pickup truck, which will help one section of the market.
It is good that some people are switching to EVs - and hopefully over time there will be wider acceptance, though consumer inertia is considerable.
i had a self charge hybrid from toyota. car certainly got better mileage than a normal ice car of same size and power. in summer i could easily get 62mpg and still have a bit of performance. THe sch nissans are only really powering the start stop mechinism and are just called that to look like they are helping the planet. At least mine could drive pure electric(not far but it would get you out of the estate etc but slowly) lol
If your driving local most of time then an ev is the job you want. I know of a few folk who only go a really long trip a couple of times a year so with savings they make with the ev hire a big ice for the trips away. a fancy merc etc.:)
Taxis and home delivery vans seem to be going electric quite rapidly which makes a lot of sense given their use-case. Plus most of them were diesel previously which is the worst of all worlds for noise and pollution.
Taxis and home delivery vans seem to be going electric quite rapidly which makes a lot of sense given their use-case. Plus most of them were diesel previously which is the worst of all worlds for noise and pollution.
one of the dpd drivers that comes to me has an escort sized van thats an ev. he says its hopeless and he almost never makes it home without having to sit with it charging somewhere. range is woeful
one of the dpd drivers that comes to me has an escort sized van thats an ev. he says its hopeless and he almost never makes it home without having to sit with it charging somewhere. range is woeful
The Amazon van is in my street most days, that's a Merc I think, about the size of an LWB Transit, and is all-electric.
next time I get a delivery I'll ask him about it.
dave2010
29-06-2022, 11:23
quite a few up here. Only few big ones, but lots of small and tiny ones. little ones for hamlets and small for villages etc. probaby the best form in highlands as they can be hidden pretty wellI spotted a big one yesterday - which is probably an outlier on a nearby wind farm. Normally it's not visible because of angles, and trees etc., so I was a bit surprised to notice it. There are a few small ones on farms etc., though I'm not sure how useful they are.
Here is an interesting article: https://www.clean-energy-ideas.com/wind/wind-turbines/how-much-energy-does-a-wind-turbine-produce
If the one I spotted is big enough - which it may be - owned by SSE most probably - it could easily supply the whole of the village and a few others round where we live. Given that there are many nearby - though not terribly visible except from a few low spots or from the air, and there is also hydro power then the local area should be at least a modest generating "hub".
There is some benefit to the local community as the electricity company is required to provide some advantages - though in what form? In previous years they refurbished the village hall - though the joke is that having fitted heat pumps to replace oil heating, the bills went up - or so I heard!
dave2010
29-06-2022, 11:27
i had a self charge hybrid from toyota. car certainly got better mileage than a normal ice car of same size and power. in summer i could easily get 62mpg and still have a bit of performance. THe sch nissans are only really powering the start stop mechinism and are just called that to look like they are helping the planet. At least mine could drive pure electric(not far but it would get you out of the estate etc but slowly) lolI think some of the hybrids could go further, but my Toyota Prius wouldn't go far in pure EV mode - even if fully charged. I think I once managed abour 400 yards but driving below 25 mph. Even a slight hill or any attempt to go faster immediately kicked the engine in. Plug-in hybrids should go further - maybe 30 miles, though the economic target was supposed to be 50 miles - to allow for a 20 mile commute.
AJSki2fly
29-06-2022, 11:38
That looks good and I'm pretty sure would cover almost all my power needs, calm days are very rare here. Would pay for itself in two years, less once leccy prices go up again in October. Just a shame I would not get planning consent for it.
No need for planning consent if you do not have an Air Source or Ground Source Heat Pump and can put it no more that 5m from the nearest boundary, it can be mounted on a chimney, no more than 3m higher that the ridge to to comply.
No need for planning consent if you do not have an Air Source or Ground Source Heat Pump and can put it no more that 5m from the nearest boundary, it can be mounted on a chimney, no more than 3m higher that the ridge to to comply.
You mean no nearer to a boundary than 5 metres? Which means you need a property that is on a plot at least 30 feet wide. My plot is just over 11 feet wide so it's a no-go.
AJSki2fly
29-06-2022, 12:07
However currently pure EVs do have limited range compared to ICE cars - a small ICE probably has a range comparable to the better EVs, while hardly any EVs can do really long trips without recharging.
This comes back to the Range Anxiety point, and is quite honestly complete and utter guff, think back to the 70s, 80' and even some in the 90's, lots and lots of cars had what you sight as limited range, they had 8-10 gallon tanks and even smaller, and you were lucky to get more than 200-250 miles out of them because of the inefficient and low MPG figures. In fact if you look at the range of the some of the modern diesel guzzling huge pickup trucks in the USA and even some here you will find they have less than a 300 mile range. Its just people are pre-programmed into going to a fuel station and pumping fossil fuel into vehicles when it is starting to run out.
Looking at energy problems on a country wide basis, vehicles are important, but not necessarily more so than other aspects of consumption. Home insulation and switching to heat pumps - if possible [which it often isn't] may be better things to concentrate on, as well as generally more effective use of energy - say for industry and commerce.
Yes, EVs are not the only solution to a cleaner and better world where we take care of our resources and environment. One of the worst polluters and a major part of the problem is the absolutely huge oil tankers that ship billions of barrels of crude oil around the world every day, their hulls sit very low in the water, they have vast engines that burn massive amounts of dirty fuel because they are so inefficient to move them and overcome the waters friction. There is a raft of information out there on just this alone.
It is not just about cars, it is about "Stopping Burning Stuff" and becoming cleaner and more efficient in all aspects of generation and energy usage.
If every car owner switched to electric vehicles right now, I doubt that the electricity grid would cope - and even with planned ramping up of electricity generation and distribution, it might take 100 years before a viable infrastructure could satisfy demand. Also, for larger vehicles, there may still be a need to have petrol or diesel trucks and lorries. Note however that Ford is now supplying an EV pickup truck, which will help one section of the market.
Really not true, the national grid in this country and likewise others around the world have been looking at this for at least the past 15-20 years, they know very accurately the levels of peaks and troughs of power down to an half hourly basis and across all times of the year. They understand very well how much impact that 5, 10, 20 or 30 million EVs plugging into the grid would have and have detailed plans in place to satisfy any growing demand over coming years. There have been recent power generation conferences in this country with all the major players partaking to discuss and plan for these very issues.
AJSki2fly
29-06-2022, 12:10
This is possibly the future of EVs to come, not the cost but the technology and what it will bring to them!
https://youtu.be/lM6BHvgvrVc
You mean no nearer to a boundary than 5 metres? Which means you need a property that is on a plot at least 30 feet wide. My plot is just over 11 feet wide so it's a no-go.
not sure how wide mine is tbh now. think it'll be less than 30ft tho.
dave2010
29-06-2022, 12:40
I've just changed jobs and am now going to be on the road a fair bit. My company has a salary sacrifice scheme, and it looks a good way to cost effectively lease an EV. Problem is around 10 of my clients I will need to visit are over 150 miles away, which means either I need an expensive long-range vehicle or have to factor in recharging when I get there or en-route. https://ev-database.uk/cheatsheet/range-electric-car I guess I could get a lower cost EV and use my wife's (diesel) car for the longer trips and she would then use the EV. A PHEV that does 50 miles on electric (my daily commute when I am in either of the two offices I work from) would be ideal, but such a beast doesn't seem to exist - restricted to about 30 miles max from what I can see.
That is - I think the problem with PHEVs. However can you not charge up when you start, and also when you get to the office? Depends how long you spend in each office I guess, and also what the charging rate for a PHEV is - something I don't know about. Also not sure whether PHEVs come with a small charger. Generally the small chargers are not great - but I was surprised to discover that I could get a useful amount of charge overnight using a so-called "granny" charger with a Tesla on a 13 amp plug. However, again you'd really need access to an outside 13 amp socket - as extension cables are definitely not recommended. If the offices install faster chargers for employees and others, then you could probably charge up a PHEV usefully in a few hours.
Re taxis mentioned recently by Grant - might be OK with EVs - but not all taxi drivers/owners have access to charging points, and some would be afraid of losing business - "Sorry mate - you'll have to wait an hour for me to charge up to get you there .... " - or "I'll just have to stop here for 12 minutes for an extra top-up". Not what customers are currently used to.
was martin i think... ive just started charging mine as buckets get emptied tomorrow and if its plugged in the cable doesnt interfere with the bucket getting emptied; ive a cable cover over slab. so if its in i might as well charge it. was at 74% so will pop it up to 90. 3hrs 20 mins for 16% isnt great but it only runs at 3.6kwh currently. still im in no real hurry....and thats the way people need to become like(to an extent) this racing against the clock for everything is a major killer
dave2010
29-06-2022, 12:53
This comes back to the Range Anxiety point, and is quite honestly complete and utter guff, think back to the 70s, 80' and even some in the 90's, lots and lots of cars had what you sight as limited range, they had 8-10 gallon tanks and even smaller, and you were lucky to get more than 200-250 miles out of them because of the inefficient and low MPG figures. In fact if you look at the range of the some of the modern diesel guzzling huge pickup trucks in the USA and even some here you will find they have less than a 300 mile range. Its just people are pre-programmed into going to a fuel station and pumping fossil fuel into vehicles when it is starting to run out.However most people expect to find fuel within 50 miles or so - even in the USA. However I do remember driving a van once in Spain, and worrying about running out of fuel in what seemed to be a remote area. We just made it to a village where we stayed overnight. I asked about where we could buy petrol. No petrol station! Then we were told to go to a bar, and I asked there. The woman went and produced some cans and we were able to fill up and go on our way the next day - but we did fill up as soon as we spotted a more conventional service station.
Yes, EVs are not the only solution to a cleaner and better world where we take care of our resources and environment. One of the worst polluters and a major part of the problem is the absolutely huge oil tankers that ship billions of barrels of crude oil around the world every day, their hulls sit very low in the water, they have vast engines that burn massive amounts of dirty fuel because they are so inefficient to move them and overcome the waters friction. There is a raft of information out there on just this alone.
It is not just about cars, it is about "Stopping Burning Stuff" and becoming cleaner and more efficient in all aspects of generation and energy usage.Agree with most of this.
If every car owner switched to electric vehicles right now, I doubt that the electricity grid would cope - and even with planned ramping up of electricity generation and distribution, it might take 100 years before a viable infrastructure could satisfy demand. Also, for larger vehicles, there may still be a need to have petrol or diesel trucks and lorries. Note however that Ford is now supplying an EV pickup truck, which will help one section of the market.
Really not true, the national grid in this country and likewise others around the world have been looking at this for at least the past 15-20 years, they know very accurately the levels of peaks and troughs of power down to an half hourly basis and across all times of the year. They understand very well how much impact that 5, 10, 20 or 30 million EVs plugging into the grid would have and have detailed plans in place to satisfy any growing demand over coming years. There have been recent power generation conferences in this country with all the major players partaking to discuss and plan for these very issues.
Yes - in the UK the data is known quite well, but it is also expected that it would take a long while to put in the new infrastructure required for a very rapid transition to electric vehicles. That's both on the generation and the distribution side.
Knowing how - and how much to do - is not the same as actually getting it done.
Re taxis mentioned recently by Grant - might be OK with EVs - but not all taxi drivers/owners have access to charging points, and some would be afraid of losing business - "Sorry mate - you'll have to wait an hour for me to charge up to get you there .... " - or "I'll just have to stop here for 12 minutes for an extra top-up". Not what customers are currently used to.
No it was me. I don't think it is an issue for taxis, you can do a lot of three or four mile journeys with a 200 mile range, charge the car when you finish your shift. Taxi drivers are self-employed they work hours to suit so not hard to work around the charging issue.
AJSki2fly
29-06-2022, 13:34
No it was me. I don't think it is an issue for taxis, you can do a lot of three or four mile journeys with a 200 mile range, charge the car when you finish your shift. Taxi drivers are self-employed they work hours to suit so not hard to work around the charging issue.
There is a real world solution, is likely to come to UK very soon. It is in place in Norway and some other countries. It’s induction charging, the taxi rank has these in the road and the taxis recharge while they are parked, no plugging in it just happens.
I expect it will happen in large cities and airports first.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is a real world solution, is likely to come to UK very soon. It is in place in Norway and some other countries. It’s induction charging, the taxi rank has these in the road and the taxis recharge while they are parked, no plugging in it just happens.
I expect it will happen in large cities and airports first.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was thinking more of mini-cabs than black cabs but I suppose the use is the same. I took a taxi to work every day for twenty years, I know a lot of taxi drivers!
AJSki2fly
29-06-2022, 13:54
I was thinking more of mini-cabs than black cabs but I suppose the use is the same. I took a taxi to work every day for twenty years, I know a lot of taxi drivers!
Rumour has it you can cook your eggs and bacon on it at the same time[emoji23]
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2022, 14:22
The Amazon van is in my street most days, that's a Merc I think, about the size of an LWB Transit, and is all-electric.
next time I get a delivery I'll ask him about it.
Last winter I spoke to an Amazon delivery driver who was dropping off something where I was working. He was in an electric Merc Sprinter. He said it was a bit shit, he wanted the heaters on but couldn't afford to waste the leccy.
the new regs for home chargers starts tomorrow i think. charging will automatically be bumped to outwith peak times. thats if you have a smart charger .. non smart chargers will become illegal to fit.
just got the message from ohme
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2022, 14:30
You mean no nearer to a boundary than 5 metres? Which means you need a property that is on a plot at least 30 feet wide. My plot is just over 11 feet wide so it's a no-go.
But if you lash it to your chimney that'll be about 8 metres. If vertical metres count then you're golden.
Last winter I spoke to an Amazon delivery driver who was dropping off something where I was working. He was in an electric Merc Sprinter. He said it was a bit shit, he wanted the heaters on but couldn't afford to waste the leccy.
lol I'll see if ours says the same thing. I bet it's the same model of van. Just need to order something big off of Amazon to get him out.
But if you lash it to your chimney that'll be about 8 metres. If vertical metres count then you're golden.
I bet they don't.
I wonder how noisy they are? If they're quiet I could probably just fit it anyway. If it isn't bothering anyone then no-one will complain and we don't get planning officer types wandering about around here. They all live in the big houses up the hill where they could stick Jodrell Bank on the roof if they wanted to.
Everyone else would just assume it was legally fitted. I mean there's one a few doors down from me with solar panels, I've not checked to see if they needed planning permission for that, why would I?
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2022, 15:02
They are supposed to be very quiet, though long term that may be down to the quality of the bearings.
Across the road from where I was working yesterday, there was one of these turbines. I'd never seen one before. It was attached to the side of his garage, between his house and next door, so only about 2-3 metres from his neighbour and the road. The 5 metre rule Adrian spoke of would probably only be enforced if you had a shit neighbour, otherwise the noise police would probably leave you alone.
well one side is empty and the other side is a good mate so won't have any bother from the immediate neighbours anyway.
dave2010
29-06-2022, 15:39
Most common cause of RTA in the UK is failure to look properly due to tiredness, complacency or distractions. A computer won't be prone to any of those issues.
My Tesla M3 regularly - but unpredictably - goes into sulks and the computer controlled driving gives up. Sod's law usually means it's just when I really want it to work. That's why I rate Tesla as Crap/Brilliant!
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2022, 15:43
My Tesla M3 regularly - but unpredictably - goes into sulks and the computer controlled driving gives up. Sod's law usually means it's just when I really want it to work. That's why I rate Tesla as Crap/Brilliant!
Treats you mean to keep you keen :)
My Tesla M3 regularly - but unpredictably - goes into sulks and the computer controlled driving gives up. Sod's law usually means it's just when I really want it to work. That's why I rate Tesla as Crap/Brilliant!
Was watching a clip of Clarkson reviewing a Tesla the other day. 7 seats, two boots and weighs two and half tons but it has a 0-60 of 3.4 seconds and will beat an Audi R8 over the quarter-mile. (Of course he actually does the race to prove it).
He said the only downside was the price - £155K
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2022, 15:52
And the intermittently functioning door handles probably.
dave2010
29-06-2022, 15:54
From that point yes it would and you would be helping the planet a little, every little bit helps! If you want more savings it would need a bit of investment see below.
Sling 6-8 Solar PV panels on the roof about £200 each for efficient ones each giving 390wh at full chat, a simple DC to AC inverter (£1K), a Zappi or OHME EV charger(Inteligent Octopus compatible) about£1K fitted, pay a Solar electrical bod to wire it up and jobs a goodun'. You will charge from Solar for nothing for around 8 months a year if parked on the drive, at least and any spare will supplement you electric needs in the home, if you need charging over night a move to Intelligent Octopus(23:30 to 05:00 cheap electric) or alternatively OVOEnergy Drive plans (24 hour cheap charging) and you will charge up at 7.5p/kwh with Octopus or around 5p/kwh with OVOEnergy, other suppliers offer EV charging as well. If you select a Hybrid AC/DC Inverter carefully you can scale up in the future and add batteries and more solar PV and become less dependent on the grid like us.
I have tried to charge up our EVs during the day from the solar panels. The panel system is rated at around 4kW, but of course the actual output depends on the quality of the sunlight. We are on Octopus - and usually charge up in the cheap period - set to 9.30pm to 1.30am - which works out at around £2.80 (2 sessions over 2 nights = 8 hours) for a nearly full charge on a Tesla M3. Zoe can be done in less time - probably costs about £2 for a full charge. We often run the dishwasher and washing machine during the day - when the sun is bright - and I'm told this makes virtually no impact on the electricity bill - based on the data returned from Octopus. However when I tried to charge the Tesla M3 up using the slowest charger, the impact on the bill was noticeable - not huge - but noticeable., and we decided it is better to revert to charging overnight with the 5p per kWh tarriff.
If there were ways to only charge up cars (or anything else - use immersion heaters etc.) which would work reliably, and adjust the load to the demand depending on the sunlight, that would be good. However good devices which do this don't seem to be available. Of course also, if eveyone fitted any devices like that, companies which to some extent may rely on electricity being fed back into the grid would adjust their rates.
One other comment - we try not to push the battery levels in the cars to over 80% too often, in order to maintain the battery life. Sometimes we go for broke - but mostly try to keep in the range 20/30 to 70/80 which arguably may be the best compromise to keep batteries in order.
was martin i think... ive just started charging mine as buckets get emptied tomorrow and if its plugged in the cable doesnt interfere with the bucket getting emptied; ive a cable cover over slab. so if its in i might as well charge it. was at 74% so will pop it up to 90. 3hrs 20 mins for 16% isnt great but it only runs at 3.6kwh currently. still im in no real hurry....and thats the way people need to become like(to an extent) this racing against the clock for everything is a major killer
it must have gone quicker than it said as it finished charging at before 4.30. up to 90% and 286 miles
Was watching a clip of Clarkson reviewing a Tesla the other day. 7 seats, two boots and weighs two and half tons but it has a 0-60 of 3.4 seconds and will beat an Audi R8 over the quarter-mile. (Of course he actually does the race to prove it).
He said the only downside was the price - £155K
tesla build quality is apparently dodgy at times.. but for 155k i would be looking for merc quality. best thing about tesla is their charging stations for me.. 3 and half seconds is pretty quick mind; faster than a decent fart:eyebrows: mine is a little over 7 secs
dave2010
29-06-2022, 18:32
Hi Steve
No I found this one, Test ATLASX 430mm diameter by 1180mm tall, I originally found a helix based one but these seem to have a better spec, TESUP turbinse are used by the military so are pretty robust. They also do an Atlas 2.0 3 blade model but a 1m by 1.1m. There is a huge variety of Wind Turbines out there, I am not clear as to what type is the best in terms of efficiency, all I know is the propeller type tend to be noisier, the helix designs can be very efficient and quiet, as can the one I like, the type of generator and the quality of the bearings used also has a big impact. Wind turbines are not that complex in reality, basically you could take a simple generator mount it and put a blade on it and wait for the wind to turn it, there are various DIYers out there who have doe this sort of thing, nut I doubt many will be very efficient.
https://www.tesup.co.uk/product-page/atlasx-wind-turbine-generator-house
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/1c70fd_c4784b6590a044a3a000bb4e218dace8~mv2.gif
Unless you live on top of a windy hill you probably want to check out the amount of wind you get over the winter months with one of these https://www.weathershop.co.uk/5-in-1-bresser-colour-wifi-weather-station#tab-label-description There is some very good statistical wind data out there on the net for local areas, but you need to be aware there the wind power you get can vary greatly by what is around you, we all know the effect of walking around a building in a city and nearly getting blown over(because it is vortexing and accerating) and then you go around the next corner and its dead calm.
I have been told that you should position the anemometer at the centre point of where the blades of the wind turbine would be mounted and take measurements, and experiment with positions until you find the best practical spot. Having done so it is best to take measurements over the period you want to generate electricity to determine if it will meet you needs. If you are going to rely on it on a daily basis to top the batteries or run the house then you may be disappointed, but in a reasonably good site then there if you use it with batteries to store excess then you likely to get a high success.
As I said previously I am mainly looking at it to supplement the Solar PV throughout the winter months, realistically it may achieve 60-80% electric power needs through the winter, there will be days with no or very low wind. About 2/3 of the year our electricity needs are fully met by the Solar PV, the remaining 1/3 mid November through to mid March is our highest grid usage, around 2500-3000Kwh, which is £1100(inc VAT) at 35p/kwh. Based on what we have seen so far with the Solar and looking at UK Solar data for our are we should still generate 5-10kwh/day from the Solar PV, so being cautious we will take 7Kwh over 120 days which is 840Kwh. This means we need about 2200kwh from the Wind Turbine, or on average 18kwh/day, I think over a 24 hour period with a fair wind:lol: this is achievable, there will be dead calm days obviously but one would hope this would also be sunny days. I reckon that realistically we may end up having to pay for around 600-800Kwh of electricity through the winter, so I am hopeful the bill over the 4 month period would be £220-290 at 35p/kwh. If I am right then the Wind Turbine is paid back for in electric bill saving in less than 2 years. I am reasonably confident in this based on what I hoped for with the Solar PV/battery installation and what we are getting to date, it is within +-5% depending on Solar conditions.
Getting totally off grid is very difficult to achieve, there are some who have done so locally but generally they are farmers who do not have planning restrictions and can invest more. I think that as technology improves and equipment and batteries become more efficient then cost effectiveness andLooks to be around £2k with the controller etc. Presumably it doesn't have to go on a roof, but unless there's a lot of clear space would be safer up higher. I guess there'd be installation costs as well - so perhaps £3k.
dave2010
29-06-2022, 19:47
3 and half seconds is pretty quick mind; faster than a decent fart :eyebrows:. mine is a little over 7 secsImpressive!
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2022, 19:59
tesla build quality is apparently dodgy at times.. but for 155k i would be looking for merc quality. best thing about tesla is their charging stations for me.. 3 and half seconds is pretty quick mind; faster than a decent fart:eyebrows: mine is a little over 7 secs
Mine will clear a room in less than 7 secs
AJSki2fly
30-06-2022, 05:41
I have tried to charge up our EVs during the day from the solar panels. The panel system is rated at around 4kW, but of course the actual output depends on the quality of the sunlight. We are on Octopus - and usually charge up in the cheap period - set to 9.30pm to 1.30am - which works out at around £2.80 (2 sessions over 2 nights = 8 hours) for a nearly full charge on a Tesla M3. Zoe can be done in less time - probably costs about £2 for a full charge. We often run the dishwasher and washing machine during the day - when the sun is bright - and I'm told this makes virtually no impact on the electricity bill - based on the data returned from Octopus. However when I tried to charge the Tesla M3 up using the slowest charger, the impact on the bill was noticeable - not huge - but noticeable., and we decided it is better to revert to charging overnight with the 5p per kWh tarriff.
If there were ways to only charge up cars (or anything else - use immersion heaters etc.) which would work reliably, and adjust the load to the demand depending on the sunlight, that would be good. However good devices which do this don't seem to be available. Of course also, if eveyone fitted any devices like that, companies which to some extent may rely on electricity being fed back into the grid would adjust their rates.
One other comment - we try not to push the battery levels in the cars to over 80% too often, in order to maintain the battery life. Sometimes we go for broke - but mostly try to keep in the range 20/30 to 70/80 which arguably may be the best compromise to keep batteries in order.
Yesterday morning put in 13kwh into Tesla M3 all off the Solar took about 2h 50min, we have a realistic max PV capability of 7kwh.
Our peak generation for one cloudless day is 63kwh, but at this time of year it’s usually around 40-45kwh.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
AJSki2fly
30-06-2022, 09:13
https://scontent.fbrs5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/290969121_763930388371707_77957411583995185_n.jpg? stp=cp1_dst-jpg_s1080x2048&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=egCTWBjuOYcAX-m2SsB&tn=oOtZooWvvK2-rsrv&_nc_ht=scontent.fbrs5-1.fna&oh=00_AT8yUnwZgONKAN0zGKVhkdVgLgRm6ZQT26irZE95lBX2 Bg&oe=62C0757B
Seems if prices keep rising at this rate, this is what we can expect to see by the end of the year, I have done some comparisons below so you can get a clear picture of what this actually means in costs. The possible future costs for 10K mile per year you can easily use to work out what you family may need to spend based on your total annual milage, so if you have two petrol cars and do 15K miles a year multiply the 10k cost by 1.5
According to Government stats:
03 Jan 2022 the average pump price of Unleaded Petrol was £1.4504/gall and Diesel £1.4885
27 Jun 2022 the average pump price of Unleaded Petrol was £1.9093/gall and Diesel £1.9893
This is a percentage rise over 6 months for petrol 32% and diesel 34% If that continues till the end of this year then we can expect to see petrol to rise to £2.5204/L and Diesel to £2.6259 This would make the average price for gallon of E10 unleaded £11.4421 and Diesel £11.9215
Yes I know it sounds unbelievable but this is what some Fuel analysts in the market are strongly forecasting. For and average family car a tank is abut 65L and most people fill up with about 10L left in it, so a 55L fill up of petrol would cost £138.62 and for Diesel £144.42
Assuming an average 40mpg for petrol this is 22p/mile and for 60mpg diesel 15p/mile, current costs
Rising to petrol 29p/mile and for 60mpg diesel 20p/mile
In comparison an EV even at 35p/kwh is 8.75p/mile (assuming 4 miles/kwh) - 39% the cost of petrol, and even if base electric prices rise in October to 50p/kwh then is will be 12.5p/mile - 43% the cost of petrol then.
A 10K miles annual usage, EV is £875, and petrol £2200 at current prices, at inflated rates £1250 for the EV and £2900 for petrol.
I have not taken into account that you can get electricity for EV charging at home at off peak rates at around 7.5p/kwh, so even if re-charging at home for 66% at this rate and 34% at public chargers you would spend £123.75 (6600miles/4mile/kwh*£0.075/kwh) and £433.50 (3400miles/4mile/kwh*£0.51/kwh) = £557.25 in total for the year.
I hope this gives some insight and helps you who are thinking about how to manage this.
The retailers are ripping the motorist off and have been for ages. Wholesle prices have been droppig for ages yet pries go up daily. Govt does nothing. What a surprise
AJSki2fly
30-06-2022, 10:53
2023 and if all goes to plan and you should be able to get one of these, and it charges from Solar PV and for EU25K
https://youtu.be/U5LKU6bWScc
https://scontent.fbrs5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/290969121_763930388371707_77957411583995185_n.jpg? stp=cp1_dst-jpg_s1080x2048&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=egCTWBjuOYcAX-m2SsB&tn=oOtZooWvvK2-rsrv&_nc_ht=scontent.fbrs5-1.fna&oh=00_AT8yUnwZgONKAN0zGKVhkdVgLgRm6ZQT26irZE95lBX2 Bg&oe=62C0757B
Seems if prices keep rising at this rate, this is what we can expect to see by the end of the year, I have done some comparisons below so you can get a clear picture of what this actually means in costs. The possible future costs for 10K mile per year you can easily use to work out what you family may need to spend based on your total annual milage, so if you have two petrol cars and do 15K miles a year multiply the 10k cost by 1.5
According to Government stats:
03 Jan 2022 the average pump price of Unleaded Petrol was £1.4504/gall and Diesel £1.4885
27 Jun 2022 the average pump price of Unleaded Petrol was £1.9093/gall and Diesel £1.9893
This is a percentage rise over 6 months for petrol 32% and diesel 34% If that continues till the end of this year then we can expect to see petrol to rise to £2.5204/L and Diesel to £2.6259 This would make the average price for gallon of E10 unleaded £11.4421 and Diesel £11.9215
Yes I know it sounds unbelievable but this is what some Fuel analysts in the market are strongly forecasting. For and average family car a tank is abut 65L and most people fill up with about 10L left in it, so a 55L fill up of petrol would cost £138.62 and for Diesel £144.42
Assuming an average 40mpg for petrol this is 22p/mile and for 60mpg diesel 15p/mile, current costs
Rising to petrol 29p/mile and for 60mpg diesel 20p/mile
In comparison an EV even at 35p/kwh is 8.75p/mile (assuming 4 miles/kwh) - 39% the cost of petrol, and even if base electric prices rise in October to 50p/kwh then is will be 12.5p/mile - 43% the cost of petrol then.
A 10K miles annual usage, EV is £875, and petrol £2200 at current prices, at inflated rates £1250 for the EV and £2900 for petrol.
I have not taken into account that you can get electricity for EV charging at home at off peak rates at around 7.5p/kwh, so even if re-charging at home for 66% at this rate and 34% at public chargers you would spend £123.75 (6600miles/4mile/kwh*£0.075/kwh) and £433.50 (3400miles/4mile/kwh*£0.51/kwh) = £557.25 in total for the year.
I hope this gives some insight and helps you who are thinking about how to manage this.
You have not taken I to account the October electricity price rise, or the cost of the EV battery replacement after 8 years?
. Wholesle prices have been droppig for ages yet pries go up daily.
what's your source for that? Wholesale prices have been increasing I thought? Partly due to Ukraine partly due to the pound weakening against the dollar.
According to this article https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/27/fuel-retailers-uk-petrol-prices-record-high it's the refineries not the retailers who are holding the price up.
Welcome Break price isn't really indicative of anything, motorway fuel has always been a rip-off. No-one fills up on the motorway unless they have no option. It's a captive market. A burger costs 50% more there as well.
AJSki2fly
30-06-2022, 11:28
You have not taken I to account the October electricity price rise, or the cost of the EV battery replacement after 8 years?
Actually I have taken into account the electricity rise, "and even if base electric prices rise in October to 50p/kwh then is will be 12.5p/mile - 43% the cost of petrol then."
As for EV battery replacement in 8 years, how many miles a year do you drive? It is well known that EV batteries are good for at least 250K plus, there are Tesla and other marques with over 300K on them and still going strong. If the batteries are charged to 80-90% of full capacity on superchargers they will do this, the newer LFP type batteries are good to be charge to 100% on a super charger regularly. So if you were doing 30-50K miles a year then maybe you would need to replace them, I think the average is around 16K miles so in the worst case they should be good for 15 years.
dave2010
30-06-2022, 11:41
You have not taken I to account the October electricity price rise, or the cost of the EV battery replacement after 8 years?There are some unknowns. We still have an electricity tariff with Octopus which is low - around 5p per kWh. Admittedly this may rise considerably, depending on what kind of deal we get later on. It looks as though the price differential is likely to be between £1000 and £1500 per year between petrol/diesel and EVs.
There are going to be other considerations too, depending on whether customers will buy new cars, nearly new cars or older second hand cars, and how long they expect them to last. Trying to do a detailed evaluation taking into account present or future values is going to be a bit of a guessing game. There is going to be a bit of faith required - as always with cars, such as with a petrol car which has a failure. Is it worth getting the car repaired or passing it on or scrapping it? That kind of decision will be similar for EVs and petrol or diesel cars bought before legislation decides which kind of vehicle you are allowed to buy and drive.
Regarding battery replacements/repair - that's a tricky one. Ideally you may want the battery to fail completely just before the guarantee period runs out - usually 8 years, so as to get a warranty replacemen. OTOH batteries don't usually just fail the day after the warranty runs out - it would not be unreasonable to expect at least 12 years - but there is no certainty. Many people do sell or otherwise dispose of their
cars within a shorter time than 8 years. Depends on one's strategy, what the car is used for, and who is paying. Some of us may be too old to drive - if we still can - in 8 years time.
For cars like the Teslas one strategy might be to keep them for a few years, then sell them while they still have a relatively high value, and replace them either with similar, or one by another manufacturer. It is likely that other manufacturers will start to make cheaper cars with similar performance, and perhaps also better build quality and better customer service. However, currently Tesla do have a bit of a monopoly of fast charging locations.
dave2010
30-06-2022, 12:00
Yesterday morning put in 13kwh into Tesla M3 all off the Solar took about 2h 50min, we have a realistic max PV capability of 7kwh.
Our peak generation for one cloudless day is 63kwh, but at this time of year it’s usually around 40-45kwh.
Apart from using a low powered charger, it is possible to restrict the charging current of a Tesla M3 - though maybe not everyone knows how to do that.
However it may not be that easy to manage - and I'm not sure what the lowest current is - probably 2 amps - which would correspond to about 0.5 kW. That's really not so useful to know though.
I guess if one could be sure of getting spare UV generation of at least 2 amps for say 6 hours, the one could inject about 3kWh of energy into a T M3 for next to no cost. However that is really not so much as to be useful. The electricity companies are not completely dumb - the price differential for electricity taken from the grid, and electricity supplied to the grid - or alternatively electricity diverted to something useful by the user - is such that on the whole the company wins - unless active steps are taken to optimise usage. That usually means having some form of active monitoring of the PV or wind generated power, and cutting off the device consumption the moment that consumption exceeds local generation supply.
The other method which some are suggesting is to use local battery power, but in the UK for many people that may turn out to be expensive and pointless. However I gather that in parts of the world, such as parts of the USA, it is worth having battery backup power as grid power failures are sufficiently common and disruptive to make a fall back supply useful to have. AFAIK the Tesla battery packs only store about 13 kwH of electricity - so not as much as a car would store - and last time I looked were at least £6k to buy, plus a few extra £ks to install. Companies like Octopus are quite keen for customers to go this way, but fairly simple calculations suggest that if one views such installation purely financially, there isn't a great benefit for most people. However there might be benefits for people who have to have high reliability for vehicles - for example taxi drivers, who could at least get enough charge to get their vehicles to another charging station - unless there is/was a very wide area grid failure.
normal ev s can get a zip charge go battery for emergencies. fits in boot etc.. 8kwh and costs about a grand
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/356457/zipcharge-reveals-portable-electric-car-charging-station
what's your source for that? Wholesale prices have been increasing I thought? Partly due to Ukraine partly due to the pound weakening against the dollar.
According to this article https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jun/27/fuel-retailers-uk-petrol-prices-record-high it's the refineries not the retailers who are holding the price up.
Welcome Break price isn't really indicative of anything, motorway fuel has always been a rip-off. No-one fills up on the motorway unless they have no option. It's a captive market. A burger costs 50% more there as well.
something i read a few days ago that they had been dropping but prices keep increasing at pump. also a lot of stations are up for sale now or will be soon as the big combos want to diversify and holding on to too much of a falling market isnt wise and the land is valuable. the more evs the fewer pumps there will be, and of course price will increase again.
a\s for motorway fuel; well when i was doing a long motorway run you'd use it and take the hit, but with so many apps and supermarkets now it can be worth the detour if you know its there, but most just want to be on their way
something i read a few days ago that they had been dropping but prices keep increasing at pump. also a lot of stations are up for sale now or will be soon as the big combos want to diversify and holding on to too much of a falling market isnt wise and the land is valuable. the more evs the fewer pumps there will be, and of course price will increase again.
the supermarkets will continue to price-war though and I suspect that is where most people fill up. They can take a lower margin since it isn't their core business, they want people to combine filling up with doing their shopping.
AJSki2fly
30-06-2022, 14:58
Apart from using a low powered charger, it is possible to restrict the charging current of a Tesla M3 - though maybe not everyone knows how to do that.
However it may not be that easy to manage - and I'm not sure what the lowest current is - probably 2 amps - which would correspond to about 0.5 kW. That's really not so useful to know though.
I guess if one could be sure of getting spare UV generation of at least 2 amps for say 6 hours, the one could inject about 3kWh of energy into a T M3 for next to no cost. However that is really not so much as to be useful. The electricity companies are not completely dumb - the price differential for electricity taken from the grid, and electricity supplied to the grid - or alternatively electricity diverted to something useful by the user - is such that on the whole the company wins - unless active steps are taken to optimise usage. That usually means having some form of active monitoring of the PV or wind generated power, and cutting off the device consumption the moment that consumption exceeds local generation supply.
I seem to remember that the lowest charge rate for a Tesla is 5amp, which is about 1.1Kw for single phase at 230v.
We use our myEnergi Zappi charger to manage the charging level, setting it to the Full Eco setting meaning it only takes spare Solar power, in our case the Solar system batteries need to be fully charged first unless we force it to take power from the batteries. Once the Solar batteries are full and there is extra power available from the PVs above the use that the house is taking then the Tesla gets charged. We can also vary the % level of PV power and supplement this with Battery/Grid power in the Zappi settings, its quite clever, I haven't played around with this. I have also used the Tesla app to limit the amps that it draws for charging, by doing so it ensured that that solar system batteries got sufficiently charged during the day so we had enough power for the evening and the next morning to run the house.
Pigmy Pony
30-06-2022, 18:27
https://scontent.fbrs5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/290969121_763930388371707_77957411583995185_n.jpg? stp=cp1_dst-jpg_s1080x2048&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=egCTWBjuOYcAX-m2SsB&tn=oOtZooWvvK2-rsrv&_nc_ht=scontent.fbrs5-1.fna&oh=00_AT8yUnwZgONKAN0zGKVhkdVgLgRm6ZQT26irZE95lBX2 Bg&oe=62C0757B
Seems if prices keep rising at this rate, this is what we can expect to see by the end of the year, I have done some comparisons below so you can get a clear picture of what this actually means in costs. The possible future costs for 10K mile per year you can easily use to work out what you family may need to spend based on your total annual milage, so if you have two petrol cars and do 15K miles a year multiply the 10k cost by 1.5
According to Government stats:
03 Jan 2022 the average pump price of Unleaded Petrol was £1.4504/gall and Diesel £1.4885
27 Jun 2022 the average pump price of Unleaded Petrol was £1.9093/gall and Diesel £1.9893
This is a percentage rise over 6 months for petrol 32% and diesel 34% If that continues till the end of this year then we can expect to see petrol to rise to £2.5204/L and Diesel to £2.6259 This would make the average price for gallon of E10 unleaded £11.4421 and Diesel £11.9215
Yes I know it sounds unbelievable but this is what some Fuel analysts in the market are strongly forecasting. For and average family car a tank is abut 65L and most people fill up with about 10L left in it, so a 55L fill up of petrol would cost £138.62 and for Diesel £144.42
Assuming an average 40mpg for petrol this is 22p/mile and for 60mpg diesel 15p/mile, current costs
Rising to petrol 29p/mile and for 60mpg diesel 20p/mile
In comparison an EV even at 35p/kwh is 8.75p/mile (assuming 4 miles/kwh) - 39% the cost of petrol, and even if base electric prices rise in October to 50p/kwh then is will be 12.5p/mile - 43% the cost of petrol then.
A 10K miles annual usage, EV is £875, and petrol £2200 at current prices, at inflated rates £1250 for the EV and £2900 for petrol.
I have not taken into account that you can get electricity for EV charging at home at off peak rates at around 7.5p/kwh, so even if re-charging at home for 66% at this rate and 34% at public chargers you would spend £123.75 (6600miles/4mile/kwh*£0.075/kwh) and £433.50 (3400miles/4mile/kwh*£0.51/kwh) = £557.25 in total for the year.
I hope this gives some insight and helps you who are thinking about how to manage this.
That is a fairly comprehensive and detailed breakdown of running costs, both current and predicted, but I'd be interested in knowing how long (based on say, 10,000 miles pa), how long it would take for these savings to recoup the outlay difference of ev to comparable ice cars. Because it's the purchase price that's the deal breaker for many.
dave2010
01-07-2022, 08:04
I seem to remember that the lowest charge rate for a Tesla is 5amp, which is about 1.1Kw for single phase at 230v.
We use our myEnergi Zappi charger to manage the charging level, setting it to the Full Eco setting meaning it only takes spare Solar power, in our case the Solar system batteries need to be fully charged first unless we force it to take power from the batteries. Once the Solar batteries are full and there is extra power available from the PVs above the use that the house is taking then the Tesla gets charged. We can also vary the % level of PV power and supplement this with Battery/Grid power in the Zappi settings, its quite clever, I haven't played around with this. I have also used the Tesla app to limit the amps that it draws for charging, by doing so it ensured that that solar system batteries got sufficiently charged during the day so we had enough power for the evening and the next morning to run the house.It sounds as though you have rather more than a simple system. We have solar panels - and we have experience now of a couple of systems - having done them on two houses. I have investigated batteries, but so far been unconvinced that they are financially worth while. Would be interested to know more about your system - and if you are also going to be adding in a wind turbine this sounds more complex than the systems which many others will have - certainly not people living in suburban semis or town houses. If the discussion here gets too complicated I'll go into PM mode.
AJSki2fly
01-07-2022, 10:04
It sounds as though you have rather more than a simple system. We have solar panels - and we have experience now of a couple of systems - having done them on two houses. I have investigated batteries, but so far been unconvinced that they are financially worth while. Would be interested to know more about your system - and if you are also going to be adding in a wind turbine this sounds more complex than the systems which many others will have - certainly not people living in suburban semis or town houses. If the discussion here gets too complicated I'll go into PM mode.
Hi Dave,
To answer you will take a few words/paragraphs, so apologies if it is a bit long winded but a few brief sentences will fail to explain IMO and not be very worthwhile for you or anyone else for that matter.
We moved to our bungalow in Jan 2021 and it is intended that this was our last house move having done 10 previously over 39 years, we did the bungalow up, March thru June 2021, it needed a complete heating system replacement. We bit the bullet, after much brain wringing we went for an Air Source Heat Pump(ASHP) and Solar Thermal(water), boy am I glad we did!. We were very lucky and managed after much government department chasing to get grants for both, so will end up paying for about 2/3 the cost, but we don't get it all back until after 7 years.
We were toyed with the idea of a Solar PV system around July/Sep 2021 because a very good friend that worked in the Petro-Chem/Gas Industry warned us of the impending price rises and this was before the Ukraine impact, also via a relatives close friend, who worked for the Government, we knew that the Russian/Ukraine issue was seriously brewing and what impact it might have across EU. This knowledge pushed us to take the Solar and EV plunge earlier rather than later, we took the view that it would be best to get any benefit sooner rather than later as we are both in our early 60's, we completely realise that we might never see pay back in our investment in ASHP, Solar PV system and EV, but it is more about trying to insulate us from rising power costs over the next 20-25 years as much as possible.
We originally were going to only put in Solar(10-12 panels), Inverter and EV charger, a pretty standard system, in late 2021 early 2022, and were planning to buy an EV 2-3 years down the road. We talked with several more knowledgable people who had over 10 years experience of Solar PV and the pitfalls and what to expect. The bungalow is intended to be our last house move having previously moved 10 times over 39 years, when we did the bungalow the existing Gas Heating system needed completely replacing, so we bit the bullet and after much brain wringing and went for an Air Source Heat pump, boy am I glad we did!.
What became clear after Solar PV discussions and my own investigation and doing various estimates/speadsheets on PV production was that 12*390wh panels would supply the house with electric for about 6 months but outside that it would virtually do very little in terms of supporting the power needed for the ASHP, cooking and so on through the evenings and early morning. My installer and I looked at the EU database on Solar power for our area going back the last 5 years, and it was clear that by utilising batteries and increasing the Solar Array we could push the boundaries of the benefit we could achieve to minimise the amount of electricity we would need throughout the winter months. It is not an exact science although the data enables you to get to probably within 5-10% of what you can expect in savings.
Our maximum electric daily usage in the dad of winter when is around 0C is 24-26Kwk/day. It is very clear that we would never generate that amount with only 8-10 hours of daylight, but on a reasonable day you can expect to generate a reasonable amount for about 5-8 hours. We determined that if we could generate and store 10-12kwh by sunset and store it that we would have enough power until the next day and start of generating PV feeding the house and extra going into the batteries.
Initially we went for a very cost effective two Hybrid AC/DC inverters and two 7.5 Kwh batteries, the manufacturer assured us that the system would be work fine and was designed for what we wanted. It worked to an extent but was fraught with errors/faulting and we were unable to rely on it charging and discharging batteries when it should and not taking power form the grid, it was returned as unfit for purpose after 2 months. It was replaced with a single Hybrid AC/DC inverter and two 9.7kwh batteries from SolarEdge but at and additional cost of £5k just for kit, however they have a very good reputation and have been in Solar since around 2008. We also considered a Telsa Power wall which has 13.8Khw hours of storage but because it requires a separate PV AC inverter to feed the PV to the local home grid, it this meant that we would have been limited to less PV panels, because you have to limit the maximum exported to the grid as specified by the DNO(Western Power) for anything over 3.9Kwh, you can do this on most hybrid AC/DC inverters.
So without going into all the calculations and spreadsheets, the bottom line is that we use 7500-8000kwh a year, so at an anticipated rate for electric in October 2022 of 48p/kwh our annual electric cost from the grid would be £3780-4032(inc vat). Based on our calculations and what we saw from December 2021 in terms of Solar generation, we anticipate in taking no more than 1500-2000Kwh from the grid(20%), mostly from mid Nov to Mid March, a cost of £756-1008(incl VAT). This actually ties in which what our supplier anticipates based on the monthly direct debit level they have set, we also sell our extra spare power to them, they have revised the DD over the past 6 month based on our usage, it is now £56/month, we are £124 in credit and for a year works out to £796, so perhaps our figures are pessimistic as they take into account the standing charge as well (£194/year).
In answer to your "I have investigated batteries, but so far been unconvinced that they are financially worth while." we expect a yearly saving from October 2022 onwards of close to £3k/year, at that level the Solar PV, inverter and battery costs will have been covered in 6 years, originally we thought 10-12 years, but as I said earlier that is not the point for us. I believe batteries are worthwhile it enables you to store and use the excess power.
With respect to installing a simple wind turbine like the AtlasX it is relatively straight forward and set to output 12-14DC as I understand it. It can directly feed the existing Hybrid AC/DC Inverter along with the Solar PVs, once the batteries are fully charged and the load from the house is less than the combined Solar and Wind Turbine generation it should just feed AC out to the grid, basically as it does already with the PV. Also the myEnergi Zappi charger should just see the Wind Turbine along with the PV so this would be seen as spare power to charge the car if needed.
I hope this is of some use to you.
Cheers
Adrian
dave2010
01-07-2022, 11:41
Thanks Adrian for detailed reply. One point to clarify - do your calculations include the cost of running a heat pump, or do you still have to change the heating?
We have an aging oil boiler - like you we moved a few years ago into a bungalow - though we are a bit older. I have mixed feelings about whether I want to stay here or move again - but let's assume we'll stay.
We put PV on this house, and also on the previous one when there was a FiT payback. I think we lost on the previous house - but it probably made it easier to sell. In theory PV is a benefit which should be taken into account in a sale, but the chances are that the installation costs will have to be written off. However nowadays an adequate PV installation can be done for around £6k, whereas our first one was around £14k.
Your data re annual usage is high, unless that also includes heating. I've not checked recently - I could do - but my guess is we use about 3500kWh - roughly average for the size of house in electricity, but we also use oil which depending on multiple factors may be several thousand litres per year. We have underfloor heating which was a real pain as it was installed when the house was built, but we recently had new manifolds and a completely new control system put in, and now it seems to be very much better. What we now need to do is get a heat pump installation to replace the oil boiler - and we think that should work.
Re the PV panels, there is hardly an FiT benefit on our installation - though we did get it done just before the deadline, so there is a very small amount paid back. However, to our surprise we did notice that the electricity bills went down - even over Christmas - when there was a lot of cooking using electricity. This was a surprise. I've not done detailed checks - but like you I reckon that there is significant benefit from solar energy from (say) March to October - and that's even up in these cold far northern parts.
Based on your comments we may revisit battery storage - though I'm still not convinced. We use the power grid as our "battery", and just hope that we don't get clobbered too much because of the import/export price differentials.
One other factor for batteries, which may vary from country to country, is the issue of whether they can be isolated from the grid, and run as an island. That could be useful if there are many power cuts, but there are technical issues. It's dangerous for power workers to have battery power connected to the grid if there's an outage, so the fail mode has to be either a complete shut off of any battery power in the case of power failuers, or some form of automated shut off, or a guaranteed disconnect from the mains for safety reasons. I'm not sure if any or all of the battery systems do automatic isolation in the case of failures.
I've heard that Tesla batteries are quite good, but others may be better - though there are differences between the US and other markets. I don't have great faith in Tesla re customer service though - as my experience with the car is "so-so". As I wrote earlier, I'd rate it as crap/brilliant. When it's good it's very, very good, but otherwise - complete thumbs down.
AJSki2fly
01-07-2022, 16:49
Thanks Adrian for detailed reply. One point to clarify - do your calculations include the cost of running a heat pump, or do you still have to change the heating?
We have an aging oil boiler - like you we moved a few years ago into a bungalow - though we are a bit older. I have mixed feelings about whether I want to stay here or move again - but let's assume we'll stay.
My figures are inclusive of running an ECODAN 8.9kw Air Source Heat pump, that is our total power usage for everything in the house, we do not have any gas usage and the connection has gone.
Your data re annual usage is high, unless that also includes heating. I've not checked recently - I could do - but my guess is we use about 3500kWh -
Yes, 3500 to 4000kwh is about our usage for heating, the rest is yearly cooking - induction hob an oven and microwave, kettle, 2 fridge/freezers, lights etc and a 500w hifi power amp(it all adds up), the water is heated from the ASHP in the winter as well.
Re the PV panels, there is hardly an FiT benefit on our installation - though we did get it done just before the deadline, so there is a very small amount paid back. However, to our surprise we did notice that the electricity bills went down - even over Christmas - when there was a lot of cooking using electricity. This was a surprise. I've not done detailed checks - but like you I reckon that there is significant benefit from solar energy from (say) March to October - and that's even up in these cold far northern parts.
With your current PV set up the FIT scheme may pay you more than it would if you were on Smart Export Guarantee(SEG). With SEG you sell your spare power back to any electricity supplier of your choice, so it can be different from your feed in grid supplier, this means you can choose the one that pays the most for your spare PV generated electricity. With this in mind you could increase the number of PVs on the roof, to max out as we have in conjunction with battery storage. Based on our electricity output to date we should generate 6500-7500kwh spare per year, for this we will get paid £232-262/annum (3.5p/kwh), you can get better from Octopus 5p/kwh), So this will further offset our total power bill for the year bringing it down to about £550. It may be a bit less depending on how many times we charge up the Tesla off go Solar PV but that is not going to be more than 1.3Mwh based on our mileage(about 8k/year) around £45 lost income.
Based on your comments we may revisit battery storage - though I'm still not convinced. We use the power grid as our "battery", and just hope that we don't get clobbered too much because of the import/export price differentials.
If your bungalow is similar to us a mid sized 3 bed and is well insulated then you really should consider an ASHP, but to maximise cost effectiveness in terms of electricity then batteries are a must IMO, don't take my word for it there are are experts out their with the same opinion, any power you generate is it is best to use it as much as possible yourself. Our system is a bit over the top in terms of generation but I wanted to have a god 25-35% leeway and to get as much as we can for as much of the year as we can.
As I said all extra electric in day will run the ASHP and house in the evening and the early morning. Having said that it will be far more efficient that a gas or oil boiler, for 1kwh you put into a ASHP you get around 3kwh out, they are very efficient, a brand new gas boiler maximin efficiency is for 1kwh you get about 0.85kwh back and I think that an oil boiler is even less. As you already have underfloor heating you are in a perfect position ASHP as it acts as a thermal store as well and it is even more efficient than radiators, we have radiators as it was too costly to rip the floor up and install underfloor heating.
One other factor for batteries, which may vary from country to country, is the issue of whether they can be isolated from the grid, and run as an island. That could be useful if there are many power cuts, but there are technical issues. It's dangerous for power workers to have battery power connected to the grid if there's an outage, so the fail mode has to be either a complete shut off of any battery power in the case of power failuers, or some form of automated shut off, or a guaranteed disconnect from the mains for safety reasons. I'm not sure if any or all of the battery systems do automatic isolation in the case of failures.
This is not an issue with or without isolation from the grid, the batteries run on DC and are connected to the house consumer unit if the power goes off then the inverter powers off as it runs off the grid and this effectively isolates the batteries from the grid. No DNO (like Western Power) world allow a system to be installed that could feed back to the grid when there's was down.
My supplier tells me that SolarEdge are soon to be bringing out a control box that will sense a grid outage and then will automatically isolate the whole house from the grid and allow the house to run off the batteries, I presume that will involve a 240AC back up PSU to keep the Inverter running until AC come from the batteries. Then when grid power returns it will switch back to normal operation.
The bottom line really is whether you want to insulate your self from rising power bills or not and whether spending out more on it is worthwhile in your view. A Tesla Powerwall is £9k, you can get 10-15Kwh batteries for around £6-10K and you may need to increase the number of Solar panels to balance it in terms of generation and storage.
https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/01/fleet-of-driverless-cars-block-street-causing-traffic-chaos-for-hours-16924676/
Lol
dave2010
13-08-2022, 05:35
https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/01/fleet-of-driverless-cars-block-street-causing-traffic-chaos-for-hours-16924676/
LolI missed this before - crazy! Did a test drive in a Tesla Model Y yesterday - really took the chance to try to discuss the problems with my Model 3. The Model Y is relatively huge - and feels more like a bus than a car. From a distance it looks very similar to a Model 3, but close up it's clearly bigger. Not sure that this is a good vehicle for UK roads. It's even slightly wider and longer than a Model 3 - which could cause some people problems with steering. It's likely that drivers will clip the kerbs on turns, and damage the wheels - apart from being potentially dangerous to pedestrians. So called kerb (curb) rash is also likely if trying to get past oncoming large vehicles such as lorries. UK roads are just not wide enough for cars this size.
As for the claimed "self driving" package - which is "not yet approved" for UK roads - all I can say is that I sure hope they don't approve such self driving vehicles for a long while into the future, as my experiences with Tesla are that I would not trust the cars to go 20 feet under their own initiative, let alone do a 20 or 200 mile drive.
The model Y is 11.something centimetres wider than my current car, which I thought was wide enough, as it does not easily fit into parking spaces. The model Y is about 10cm shorter though.
The width would be interesting on some of the roads I drive.
And the model X is 2cm wider still.
cars are wide enough as is.. parking spaces and garages havent kept up tho. they still use the old car sizes(presumably as they want plenty spaces and dont care if your car gets damaged). if they were forced to pay for said damage due to too small slots, i bet ya they would got bigger in a month or so,.
AJSki2fly
13-08-2022, 11:35
Model 3 just fits through our 6’ 6” garage doors with 1/2” spare each side without door mirrors folded. I think the Y would be a challenge.
The autopilot on the M3, does reasonable auto steer but I would not rely on it, it does pretty well on motorways or dual carraigeways, and not bad on wide well marked A road, but need to be ready to take control at all times. The driver/safety assist aspect IMO is pretty good, but it can over-react at time if it suspects an up coming obstacle or vehicle getting too close, so you need to be prepared for sudden braking which you may need to override with throttle, this has improved over the last 6 months presumably due to several software updates.
All new modern cars have similar systems and all drivers should be cautious of following too close as they may find it challenging brake quickly enough, interestingly I have noticed most drivers keep back from the Tesla, it might be because the brake lights are often going on and off when the car is on cruise control, as soon as regen kicks in, not just braking.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://www.carthrottle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Mini-old-vs-new-680x448.jpg
http://www.carthrottle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Old-v-New-VW-Beetle-680x425.jpg
you can see the differences.. 20/30cm width alone
dave2010
13-08-2022, 14:05
Model 3 just fits through our 6’ 6” garage doors with 1/2” spare each side without door mirrors folded. I think the Y would be a challenge.
The autopilot on the M3, does reasonable auto steer but I would not rely on it, it does pretty well on motorways or dual carraigeways, and not bad on wide well marked A road, but need to be ready to take control at all times. The driver/safety assist aspect IMO is pretty good, but it can over-react at time if it suspects an up coming obstacle or vehicle getting too close, so you need to be prepared for sudden braking which you may need to override with throttle, this has improved over the last 6 months presumably due to several software updates.
All new modern cars have similar systems and all drivers should be cautious of following too close as they may find it challenging brake quickly enough, interestingly I have noticed most drivers keep back from the Tesla, it might be because the brake lights are often going on and off when the car is on cruise control, as soon as regen kicks in, not just braking.
I was actually quite surprised at how chunky and clunky the Y model felt. Inside - having climbed up - it felt narrower than the 3 - but then I was told it was actually several inches wider. I think the perception is due to the height, and it feels more like the old VW camper van we used to drive - though apart from the fact that our VW van was really old and relatively underpowered I feel I enjoyed driving that more than trying to navigate round a town centre in the Tesla model Y. The one good thing was that on entry to car parks the ticket from the ticket machine was about the right height - well actually slightly higher - but didn't force me to get out or stretch a long way to reach the ticket. I'm sure the Y is a fast car, but the weight and handling just seemed nothing like as good as the 3.
Did you pay for the extra auto-drive "upgrade"? We didn't - bt the cruise control - when it works has similar features - some of which I don't trust. For example, the car is supposed to have auto braking if the vehicles in front are going slow or brake - but how on earth is one supposed to test that? OK - you could try this:
1. Drive as close as you dare to a vehicle in front.
2. Turn the feature on - if not already.
3. Watch and Wait!
An enhancement might then be:
4. Adjust the follower gap slowly to the minimum which the car will allow. That might be as little as one car length.
If the feature does work you might experience some hard braking if there's a sudden change in speed of the vehicle in front.
If it doesn't work ...... Oooops - painful, dangerous and expensive maybe.
I was actually quite surprised at how chunky and clunky the Y model felt. Inside - having climbed up - it felt narrower than the 3 - but then I was told it was actually several inches wider. I think the perception is due to the height, and it feels more like the old VW camper van we used to drive - though apart from the fact that our VW van was really old and relatively underpowered I feel I enjoyed driving that more than trying to navigate round a town centre in the Tesla model Y. The one good thing was that on entry to car parks the ticket from the ticket machine was about the right height - well actually slightly higher - but didn't force me to get out or stretch a long way to reach the ticket. I'm sure the Y is a fast car, but the weight and handling just seemed nothing like as good as the 3.
Did you pay for the extra auto-drive "upgrade"? We didn't - bt the cruise control - when it works has similar features - some of which I don't trust. For example, the car is supposed to have auto braking if the vehicles in front are going slow or brake - but how on earth is one supposed to test that? OK - you could try this:
1. Drive as close as you dare to a vehicle in front.
2. Turn the feature on - if not already.
3. Watch and Wait!
An enhancement might then be:
4. Adjust the follower gap slowly to the minimum which the car will allow. That might be as little as one car length.
If the feature does work you might experience some hard braking if there's a sudden change in speed of the vehicle in front.
If it doesn't work ...... Oooops - painful, dangerous and expensive maybe.
cruise braking following a car in the kona does work but it lets you get too close before it reacts imo. the 3 dot distance(its furthest) isnt ver far when doing 50 or so. much closer than i'd have it when driving, and it lets distance drop a fair bit before it slams on brakes. as much as i do use the cruise, im not overly keen on letting do braking.
dave2010
13-08-2022, 15:53
The bottom line really is whether you want to insulate your self from rising power bills or not and whether spending out more on it is worthwhile in your view. A Tesla Powerwall is £9k, you can get 10-15Kwh batteries for around £6-10K and you may need to increase the number of Solar panels to balance it in terms of generation and storage.Thanks for the comprehensive post. We currently have an oil boiler - backup is electricity and a wood burner. The oil boiler is now getting old and perhaps difficult to maintain. I don't really want to replace it with another oil burner - but rather lose it altogether, plus reclaim the space taken up by the oil tank.
I am not by any means 100% convinced by Tesla as a company - some of their products are quite good - but customer service seems poor. In the US the solar side of the business seems to have attracted many complaints.
Re the batteries - I also get the feeling that one doesn't have to have a Tesla Powerwall in order to get a reasonable battery system - though perhaps getting good or even reasonable installers in the UK might be difficult as there are probably not many installers with good experience. There are web sites which suggest other battery suppliers are better in the USA - but that doesn't necessarily follow in the UK. Our house has underfloor heating, and hardly anyone knows how to fix it - though we now have found someone who did a complete update, and he assures us that there should be someone - somewhere in the UK - who will know how to attach an ASHP to it. The trouble there is that many of the installers are working with ideas which are years out of date - hardly the forefront of technology - and this really holds things back a lot. We have only just had a fully computerised system put in, but in our previous house the plumber we had for a while ran a mile any time I suggested putting in a computerised system, though he did suggest and install a pressurised water system - which was new to us at the time. I get the feeling that apart from trying to protect their own businesses, many just find it all too difficult, and can only cope with "what they know".
dave2010
13-08-2022, 16:03
cruise braking following a car in the kona does work but it lets you get too close before it reacts imo. the 3 dot distance(its furthest) isnt ver far when doing 50 or so. much closer than i'd have it when driving, and it lets distance drop a fair bit before it slams on brakes. as much as i do use the cruise, im not overly keen on letting do braking.Sometimes, when the cruise control in the M3 is actually working, a message flashes up - something like "Cruise control will not brake". I guess that's a way of saying "You're on your own, mate!". This is OK if other drivers are driving fairly reasonably, but not much good for emergencies when one really wants to have all the [useful] help one can get. So for the most part I still drive as if I'm fully in control - and hence leave a very considerable distance between the vehicle and the ones I'm following.
There are some roads where the car's behaviour is a pain in cruise control mode. One is a steep downhill road with a pavement to the left and a 20 mph speed limit. There are often kids walking up the hill. If the car "sees" a kid on the pavement [sidwalk for any US readers] it might get jittery and slam the brakes on. Similarly if it spots a bus coming up the hill. Drivers behind probably don't like that - and I sympathise with them!
Sometimes, when the cruise control in the M3 is actually working, a message flashes up - something like "Cruise control will not brake". I guess that's a way of saying "You're on your own, mate!". This is OK if other drivers are driving fairly reasonably, but not much good for emergencies when one really wants to have all the [useful] help one can get. So for the most part I still drive as if I'm fully in control - and hence leave a very considerable distance between the vehicle and the ones I'm following.
There are some roads where the car's behaviour is a pain in cruise control mode. One is a steep downhill road with a pavement to the left and a 20 mph speed limit. There are often kids walking up the hill. If the car "sees" a kid on the pavement [sidwalk for any US readers] it might get jittery and slam the brakes on. Similarly if it spots a bus coming up the hill. Drivers behind probably don't like that - and I sympathise with them!
usually means your pressing throttle
Pigmy Pony
13-08-2022, 17:01
If a regular car behaved like that it probably wouldn't get past the NCAP testing. That is some weird shit.
Pigmy Pony
13-08-2022, 17:10
Maybe this is the future of motoring?
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/RN7GN8/rubbleflinstone-the-flintstones-1960-RN7GN8.jpg
Public transport
https://cdnmetv.metv.com/5MEld-1461077846-3432-list_items-wackyraces_anthillmob.jpg
dave2010
14-08-2022, 09:33
If a regular car behaved like that it probably wouldn't get past the NCAP testing. That is some weird shit.The other thing I really detest is when it tries to nudge the steering. It thinks it knows better than i do what line to take. It's just plain annoying - or worse than that. However it's not only Teslas that do that.
The other thing I really detest is when it tries to nudge the steering. It thinks it knows better than i do what line to take. It's just plain annoying - or worse than that. However it's not only Teslas that do that.
yeh, a touch on the indicator stops it happening on mine
Pigmy Pony
14-08-2022, 09:52
The other thing I really detest is when it tries to nudge the steering. It thinks it knows better than i do what line to take. It's just plain annoying - or worse than that. However it's not only Teslas that do that.
Yeah that would do my head in. Looked at another way, if you drove like that in your driving test, the examiner would not be kind :(
Full safety kit will be on all cars soon I guess. Not that there is as much chance to love driving now but some of these do reduce the fun more. Some are a great help tho
Pigmy Pony
14-08-2022, 11:54
I think the days of driving for fun are pretty much over. We may just have to change our way of thinking, and just see it as a way to get from a to b as painlessly as possible. Which looked at logically is the purpose anyway.
Maybe time to look elsewhere for fun. Like skydiving. And for real thrills get your mate to pack your chute the night before after the pub.
dave2010
16-08-2022, 05:21
Yeah that would do my head in. Looked at another way, if you drove like that in your driving test, the examiner would not be kind :(Would depend I think. Some of the road markings are really confusing for the "poor" car systems, so I claim that I do know better than the car. The first time I encountered this issue was in a hire car and somewhere in Suffolk. If I'd kept the car "happy" it would have been up on the pavement and that wasn't even at any significant speed. The Tesla M3 is mostly not too bad - and in any case I turn the feature off - though sometimes it seems to manage to turn things back on again.
Re fun - I used to enjoy driving more - though I don't always dislike it now. Sometimes it's more enjoyable than others - depending on the roads, the traffic and how I feel.
OK - some of you guys will disagree - but one bit of "fun" which really gets to me is cars or more likely motor bikes which make excessive noise for no very good reason. There isn't any point in having cars or bikes which make excessive noise just to draw attention to themselves.
We live by the side of a main route and sometimes the exuberant noise makers are a real pain. What is more, sometimes when I look the riders seem to be riding pathetic little things not much bigger than a moped!
I think the days of driving for fun are pretty much over. We may just have to change our way of thinking, and just see it as a way to get from a to b as painlessly as possible. Which looked at logically is the purpose anyway.
Maybe time to look elsewhere for fun. Like skydiving. And for real thrills get your mate to pack your chute the night before after the pub.
The days of driving for fun on the 'open road' were over at least ten years ago. There are far more vehicles on the road these days - and the general standard of driving is poor. It seems that drivers are only interested in getting from A to B in the shortest time possible, and show little consideration or tolerance to other road users.
walpurgis
16-08-2022, 14:14
the general standard of driving is poor
Many of 'the locals' here are unfit to have a driving licence. But there again, many of them drive without having one!
put 26 % into car battery.... cost about £4.20 will take me about 90 miles. better than fuel
Pigmy Pony
16-08-2022, 15:28
put 26 % into car battery.... cost about £7.30. will take me about 140 miles. better than fuel
I know superior fuel economy is a given with EVs, But so is initial outlay. And what about the rest of it? How do they go on for depreciation, servicing and parts costs, and insurance? When it comes to cost per mile (which I know will vary depending on average mileage) how does it all compare?
I suppose all this information is available online, I'm just being lazy :)
I know superior fuel economy is a given with EVs, But so is initial outlay. And what about the rest of it? How do they go on for depreciation, servicing and parts costs, and insurance? When it comes to cost per mile (which I know will vary depending on average mileage) how does it all compare?
I suppose all this information is available online, I'm just being lazy :)
figures were wrong lol...this should be right.... put 26 % into car battery.... cost about £4.20 will take me about 90 miles. better than fuel.
yes dearer to buy for sure. servicing etc should be less and thus cheaper. no idea re insurance... depreciation, well thats up in air currently but may be higher, but things seem to change rapidly.. at moment most secondhand cars on market are doing well for the owners.
i think i read you probably need to do an above average mileage to get your money back, but prices will no doubt come down as more are made etc.
AJSki2fly
17-08-2022, 05:52
I know superior fuel economy is a given with EVs, But so is initial outlay. And what about the rest of it? How do they go on for depreciation, servicing and parts costs, and insurance? When it comes to cost per mile (which I know will vary depending on average mileage) how does it all compare?
I suppose all this information is available online, I'm just being lazy :)
With respect to depreciation we got our low mileage (2850) Tesla M3 late March 2022, it a Long Range Dual Motor top spec in red, it was just over £50k, it was a very good price, £12k less than new, I looked online a few weeks ago and there were 3 in the same/similar mileage from £56.5-58k. So I think I could sell it for £54-55k without much problem.
Insurance is £33/month for a 64 year old fart like me with a clean licence.
Servicing is when it is needed the car/Tesla let you know through diagnostics, some owners have gone over 50k with no servicing. Other than that it tyres, and brake(about 50-80k).
I think you can work out price per mile
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pigmy Pony
17-08-2022, 19:21
Well our current car Volvo S60 D4 cost us £15k (our maximum car budget), and we have 2 years finance left on it. Probably be worth £5k by then. So if we borrow £10k to bring us back to £15k, what can we expect for that?
Cheapest one I've seen that's not a Nissan Leaf. And I don't need to ask Mrs. P whether she would be seen dead in it :( £22k
https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/vSoAAOSwceBi-xmf/s-l225.webp
Pigmy Pony
17-08-2022, 19:38
Just seen your pm Adrian, thank you :)
Well our current car Volvo S60 D4 cost us £15k (our maximum car budget), and we have 2 years finance left on it. Probably be worth £5k by then. So if we borrow £10k to bring us back to £15k, what can we expect for that?
Cheapest one I've seen that's not a Nissan Leaf. And I don't need to ask Mrs. P whether she would be seen dead in it :( £22k
https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/vSoAAOSwceBi-xmf/s-l225.webpShe's a petrol head tho. Lol she's as well sticking to what she likes as long as she can.
dave2010
18-08-2022, 10:32
With respect to depreciation we got our low mileage (2850) Tesla M3 late March 2022, it a Long Range Dual Motor top spec in red, it was just over £50k, it was a very good price, £12k less than new, I looked online a few weeks ago and there were 3 in the same/similar mileage from £56.5-58k. So I think I could sell it for £54-55k without much problem.
Insurance is £33/month for a 64 year old fart like me with a clean licence.
Servicing is when it is needed the car/Tesla let you know through diagnostics, some owners have gone over 50k with no servicing. Other than that it tyres, and brake(about 50-80k).
I think you can work out price per mile
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI really don't want to drive a petrol or diesel car ever again - except out of necessity - for example on holiday with a hire car. However I'm really not happy with Tesla's customer service [I'd rate somewhere between poor and abysmal] and it's just possible I'll still want/need a car in (say) 6 years time - if I'm still alive! There's no guarantee that my M3 would still be going then - it might make sense to swap it before that. Cars which might be better than my M3 probably cost more - I've yet to drive the Porsche EV - which I suspect would beat the heck out of most Teslas. I also plan to test Ford's offering sometime soon - but it'll still be quite expensive.
OTOH I figure that the SH price of petrol cars may plummet, so that it would be possible to pick up a usable runabout car for not a lot by the time I would need it. At the moment the price of electricity is such that running the EV is significantly cheaper than putting petrol in an ICE car, but energy prices are going to go up significantly. The other option is still to go for a plug-in hybrid car - which arguably would give the best of/worst of both worlds. The only car I really liked in a test drive over the last few years was a plug-in version of the Toyota Prius - but it had a disadvantage with the back seat being disrupted by space taken up by the batteries - so not so good for luggage, or stuff to take to the dump etc
I really don't want to drive a petrol or diesel car ever again - except out of necessity - for example on holiday with a hire car. However I'm really not happy with Tesla's customer service [I'd rate somewhere between poor and abysmal] and it's just possible I'll still want/need a car in (say) 6 years time - if I'm still alive! There's no guarantee that my M3 would still be going then - it might make sense to swap it before that. Cars which might be better than my M3 probably cost more - I've yet to drive the Porsche EV - which I suspect would beat the heck out of most Teslas. I also plan to test Ford's offering sometime soon - but it'll still be quite expensive.
OTOH I figure that the SH price of petrol cars may plummet, so that it would be possible to pick up a usable runabout car for not a lot by the time I would need it. At the moment the price of electricity is such that running the EV is significantly cheaper than putting petrol in an ICE car, but energy prices are going to go up significantly. The other option is still to go for a plug-in hybrid car - which arguably would give the best of/worst of both worlds. The only car I really liked in a test drive over the last few years was a plug-in version of the Toyota Prius - but it had a disadvantage with the back seat being disrupted by space taken up by the batteries - so not so good for luggage, or stuff to take to the dump etc
not so sure the uk will follow up with their vow for 2030 cut off tbh. they look to be backsliding on everything while making laws that will stop protests. so petrol cars may well continue.
dave2010
18-08-2022, 14:30
not so sure the uk will follow up with their vow for 2030 cut off tbh. they look to be backsliding on everything while making laws that will stop protests. so petrol cars may well continue.Sadly I agree with you. The current shower couldn't run a booze up in a brewery .... mmm ..... on second thoughts, perhaps they could!
Sadly I agree with you. The current shower couldn't run a booze up in a brewery .... mmm ..... on second thoughts, perhaps they could!
Never was a truer word said.
Pigmy Pony
18-08-2022, 18:18
She's a petrol head tho. Lol she's as well sticking to what she likes as long as she can.
She is indeed Grant. Me, I'm open to anything that works and is affordable. But she is a right snob - hates the re-invented BMW Minis (It's not a proper Mini, look at the size of it!), won't consider Vauxhall ( drowned her recently bought Astra on a flooded road then added £8k to her insurance payout to buy the car she really wanted). She thinks all Fiats are a pointless waste of metal, and would rather walk than drive an estate.
Actually 'snob' isn't the right word, some of her 'hates' don't make any sense. But hey-ho, I just let her get on with it, I like being a passenger :)
She's lovely really, but her views on car choices can clear a room.
She obviously knows her cars - so let her choose.
My partner chose the car we drive.
She is indeed Grant. Me, I'm open to anything that works and is affordable. But she is a right snob - hates the re-invented BMW Minis (It's not a proper Mini, look at the size of it!), won't consider Vauxhall ( drowned her recently bought Astra on a flooded road then added £8k to her insurance payout to buy the car she really wanted). She thinks all Fiats are a pointless waste of metal, and would rather walk than drive an estate.
Actually 'snob' isn't the right word, some of her 'hates' don't make any sense. But hey-ho, I just let her get on with it, I like being a passenger :)
She's lovely really, but her views on car choices can clear a room.
i have few requirements.. i have to be able to get in and out and it has to take a hoist and scooter. otherwise its all about what i can afford to get. if it can be fun and cheap to run etc thats a bonus. the kona ev can do 0-60 in about 7secs.. plenty quick
Pigmy Pony
18-08-2022, 18:39
She obviously knows her cars - so let her choose.
My partner chose the car we drive.
You're so right Barry - if like me you're not really bothered. Although the current car (Volvo S60) was my doing :) Not exactly a prestige car, but it does everything we need and I like the way it looks
Goora love the Yanks for their madness.
Inside the world’s toughest SUV worth £200k that shoots pepper spray and has a bullet-proof body https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/20107594/inside-the-worlds-toughest-suv?utm_source=native_share&utm_medium=sharebar_native&utm_campaign=sharebaramp
In Texas you can have one that shoots napalm.
Yeah, right, pops. No jury in the world's gonna convict a baby…maybe Texas.
Chief Whigham.. lol
walpurgis
17-10-2022, 07:23
This vintage Peugeot bicycle is now mine apparently, I have still to collect it from the ebay seller who is only a couple of miles away. From the photos looks in great nick for its fifty years age. I'll have to do something about the silly bars and put my vintage Brooks saddle on, then touch up the paint where needed and give it a clear lacquer coat and finally adjust and lube everything in sight! :)
https://i.ibb.co/HgJn7zR/Screen-Shot-10-17-22-at-08-00-AM.png (https://ibb.co/C0rhB74)
https://i.ibb.co/1ZWy24k/Screen-Shot-10-17-22-at-08-01-AM.png (https://ibb.co/8MZv8QH)
nice find geoff.. looks in decent condition..
walpurgis
17-10-2022, 09:15
nice find geoff.. looks in decent condition..
There's a NOS. one on ebay at about 15 times what I paid. At least it's got the right handlebars on. Prefer the chrome forks on mine but the frame and wheels look pretty much the same. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125060227662
There's a NOS. one on ebay at about 15 times what I paid. At least it's got the right handlebars on. Prefer the chrome forks on mine but the frame and wheels look pretty much the same. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125060227662
so whats yours? mid 70's
walpurgis
17-10-2022, 10:38
so whats yours? mid 70's
I'd say so going by the plastic spoke protector on the eighties NOS one, mine has alloy.
walpurgis
17-10-2022, 15:58
Took the Carrera bike out for a spin just now. Enjoyed that.
It's only a cheapie but rides & handles nicely.
https://i.ibb.co/SB1TRxt/P1010259.jpg (https://ibb.co/gJX1z7S)
for the bike fraternity... a large complex lego model of a bmw. comes out at about 120 notes which is a steal
https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9622441?clickSR=slp:term:bmw%20m%201000:1:2:1
also a nice land rover defender too on sale
(https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9622441?clickSR=slp:term:bmw%20m%201000:1:2:1)
Pigmy Pony
21-10-2022, 17:17
for the bike fraternity... a large complex lego model of a bmw. comes out at about 120 notes which is a steal
https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9622441?clickSR=slp:term:bmw%20m%201000:1:2:1
also a nice land rover defender too on sale
(https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9622441?clickSR=slp:term:bmw%20m%201000:1:2:1)
That looks great, and at that price it would be a fantastic gift for anyone who owns or aspires to own one of them. Lego could do to widen their range, if there was one for my bike I'd be all over it :)
That looks great, and at that price it would be a fantastic gift for anyone who owns or aspires to own one of them. Lego could do to widen their range, if there was one for my bike I'd be all over it :)
they are supposedly doing one, or so i read... i'd love one myself but im not able hands wise to do that kind of thing now. like most of me my arthritis in hands is getting worse daily lol
Pigmy Pony
21-10-2022, 19:16
That's a shame. Arthritis is a right cow. At the risk of sounding like a pusher, there is evidence that cannabis products can help with the pain.
Got a lift in VW ID4 yesterday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_ID.4
Been in hybrids before but not all-electric. Inside, the controls and the layout/styling made it feel a bit like travelling in time to the very near future.
It was very quiet, very smooth - and very fast.
World Car Of The Year 2021 apparently.
It's deliberately built as an ev so has that advantage over my one. Mine is an ev version of an ice car.
S few of the guys on forum had tried the id3 and 4.
walpurgis
22-10-2022, 07:34
How do you adjust the tappets on it? :)
How do you adjust the tappets on it? :)
you just tap it gently :ner:
dave2010
22-10-2022, 15:02
they are supposedly doing one, or so i read... i'd love one myself but im not able hands wise to do that kind of thing now. like most of me my arthritis in hands is getting worse daily lolI suppose you've already tried steroid injections. They sometimes work - but sometimes the effect wears off too quickly to be useful.
Not yet no. My mum got them in her knees years ago. As you say they wore off too early for her but they did help
dave2010
23-10-2022, 15:05
Not yet no. My mum got them in her knees years ago. As you say they wore off too early for her but they did help
mrs d had them in her legs/thighs some while back. They worked for a while, but eventually she had to have surgery, which for quite a while does seem to have helped.
More recently though she showed interest in playing the piano, and found it a bit hard playing the piano we had. I thought that maybe a digital piano would be better, but sadly it hasn't been. She also had problems chopping up food. Several months ago she had steroid injections, and although she hasn't yet gone back to piano playing, other things have got a lot better, and there's as yet no sign of the treatment wearing off. Apparently sometimes a one off dose can "do the trick", while other people need regular periodic injections, and for some it eventually doesn't work at all.
Perhaps worth checking with your GP.
Pigmy Pony
23-10-2022, 15:48
Had steroid injections for tennis elbow many years ago. Bit painful for a day (sticking a needle into an inflamed tendon will do that), but then settled down nicely. Only came back about 3 months after returning to the gym, so another injection was done. And by modifying my training routine the tennis elbow stayed away.
I suspect the effectiveness will depend on your quack hitting the right spot.
yeah mum said one doc was good at it and got needle in right spot. other one in practice that did it missed so it didnt really work. but they said it was limited to a certain amount of times then you couldnt get it again.
Pigmy Pony
23-10-2022, 16:40
yeah mum said one doc was good at it and got needle in right spot. other one in practice that did it missed so it didnt really work. but they said it was limited to a certain amount of times then you couldnt get it again.
Something to do with the steroid 'thinning your skin' iirc. Hydrocortisone creams should only be used sparingly and for a limited time for similar reasons I believe.
Something to do with the steroid 'thinning your skin' iirc. Hydrocortisone creams should only be used sparingly and for a limited time for similar reasons I believe.
well next time i dare go to a doc, i will mention it :D. i currently get nurses out to house usually. but probably docs are too lazy. and im not keen to catch something in a surgery etc.
dave2010
23-10-2022, 22:17
well next time i dare go to a doc, i will mention it :D. i currently get nurses out to house usually. but probably docs are too lazy. and im not keen to catch something in a surgery etc.I did mention that success is not guranteed, but there's a reasonable chance.
Indeed the injections aren't suppose to be done too frequently - though it may also depend on the injection site and how often the injections would need to be done to be effective. I get the feeling that hands may be less of a problem than thigh or leg regions, so you'd probably be OK to have two injections each year - if really needed. It may be that just one injection - with a different regime afterwards - would fix the problem for a long while.
Worth a try if things are getting bad for you.
Pigmy Pony
24-10-2022, 14:28
well next time i dare go to a doc, i will mention it :D. i currently get nurses out to house usually. but probably docs are too lazy. and im not keen to catch something in a surgery etc.
Your chances of getting a home visit from doc may improve with coming winter. Too cold and wet to play golf.
Your chances of getting a home visit from doc may improve with coming winter. Too cold and wet to play golf.
i doubt it. they only go out in rare cases to patients who are fully bed bound. when i was ill with that vaccine, the phone just rang out for days.. wouldnt have happened in the 'good old days'
when I was a child we had Dr Binnie who always came out to the house if we were sick. Always immaculate in dark blue suit, cufflinks, white shirt and regimental tie.
He was in the Chindits during the War. He didn't need to type your symptoms into Google in order to diagnose you, either.
when I was a child we had Dr Binnie who always came out to the house if we were sick. Always immaculate in dark blue suit, cufflinks, white shirt and regimental tie.
He was in the Chindits during the War. He didn't need to type your symptoms into Google in order to diagnose you, either.
yup, and if you were ill you could see the doc same day; not a week later when your either well or dead.:doh:
yup, and if you were ill you could see the doc same day; not a week later when your either well or dead.:doh:
eventually you won't be able to see the vet at all. They'll have got rid of them so they can find the money to pay all the accountants they need to employ to manage the ever increasing budget.
You'll be able to go and see one. He won't be able to cure you but he will be able to offer you a wide variety of investment products.
walpurgis
17-11-2022, 10:44
Latest 'something to play with' bike.
A rare 21" small frame Raleigh Record racer dating from July 1977 according to the serial number and made in Nottingham. Came without wheels but it's a nicely made proper British bike.
The shifters on the handlebar stem are worth what I paid for it. Scruffy and needs minor repairs, nothing I can't sort and my spare 700C wheels fit and should work OK. Paint is very battered and will need some serious airbrush work to tidy up, but I have the right colours. I like the stay loop round the seatpost/crosstube.
Probably very boring to most of you, but there you go! :D
https://i.ibb.co/D7v9wFq/IMG-1162.jpg (https://ibb.co/BgQyTJ1)
looks like its all there really, bar wheels and saddle etc. gives you a nice little job to do mate..:)
walpurgis
18-11-2022, 08:23
Electric cars to pay road tax!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63660321
Don't tell me you didn't see that one coming!!
Electric cars to pay road tax!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63660321
Don't tell me you didn't see that one coming!!
going to be charged for any over 40k too, which is most of them;) i dont pay road tax as its leased
That was the bike every kid dreamed of in 77 and 78 here in the U.S. but your parents had to really love you to open their wallet and dig that deep .
Only one kid had one in my middle school and it was the envy of the campus.
I also had a Raleigh but it was a Sprite 27 (Had 27 inch wheels for the US market) It was a S.A. 3 speed internal hub. add W 20 3N1 oil once a month.
I am probably the last guy for miles that knows how to take that hub apart and service it. ( I replaced the balls with G10's 5100 steel and greased with the Chevron VHP Red . Just keep the grease away from the pawls or she will hang up. The oil in the hub will take care of them.
Those old 3 speeds where bullet proof transportation, As a teen everything was far away from where I lived so a 2 or 3 hour ride was normal.
I rode 8 miles to school and back every day an (1975-Raliegh-Sprite-27) replaced a chain every year. On week ends I would ride sun up to sun down to Sacramento to go to the Big Record Store. In those days I never even had to lock it up.
It had a little leather bag , I kept a spare shift cable ,brake cable ,spare tube and a Whit worth flat multi wrench, I never once had to call for a ride home. They don't make them like that anymore.
I put this one together, later on , it's brown not green like my old one, but there aren't a lot of Raliegh 3 speeds left in California.
I went on family bike rides with it for awhile then sold it.
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32670-Show-off-your-British-Cycles-(1975-Raliegh-Sprite-27)&highlight=Raliegh+speed
walpurgis
23-11-2022, 09:11
That Raleigh Sprite looks great, those Sturmey Archer hubs are a work of art!
I did a bit of work on mine yesterday. It's a bit cold out there for me though. At least I managed to free and remove the frozen handlebar stem after an hour of oiling and heaving, that was really bugging me. Need to dig out the crank tool now so I can finish stripping the frame.
my first big bike had a sturmy internal rear hub 3 speed from a trigger on handlebar. my big racer i got next was an external 5 speed triggered from frame. think you had to back pedal with one, although that might be wrong lol
walpurgis
23-11-2022, 09:36
There's few hub geared bikes fitted with derailieur gears as well, sounds a handy idea.
Here's a Brompton 3+2.
https://i.ibb.co/6yqmrjs/Screen-Shot-11-23-22-at-09-34-AM.png (https://ibb.co/zmtrQqf)
The internal 3 speed is brilliant , My back no longer allows me to bike ride , It plays Hell with my sciatic nerve.
I get the dancing chain bikes if your a bicycle racer and need to keep a cadence over different grades and inclines.
But for daily reliability ,just getting from point A to B with out much trouble or maintenance give me a internal 3 speed.
First off, you have to spend some money to get a good derailer that wont jump the chain off , slip with out engaging or skip gears.
They put a lot more ware and tare on the chain and you are back to adjusting cables and derailers as everything needs readjusting with in months regular riding.
The old 3 speed just needs a few drops of 20W oil in the hub and a few on the chain and off you go.
walpurgis
28-11-2022, 16:41
Did more today. The blasted crank extractor thread stripped and heat, hammering and levering wouldn't shift the right crank so I cut it off. Got another set to try on there now. Frame and forks totally bare now and I just need to figure out what colour to spray it.
dave2010
12-12-2022, 06:54
With sub zero temperatures overnight, charging EVs seems to be less effective. Normally a four hour charging session bumps up the stored charge by around 25% of the total capacity - cost around £2.80 on the cheap off peak tariff.
Now it seems to be giving less than that and I'm having trouble keeping the Tesla M3 charged up. An added factor is that when running it uses more energy for heating and maybe other aspects of its operation.
Another stupid thing about the charging is the way to set the start and end time for the charge. The only way I've found to do it from inside the car is by setting the start time, then adjusting the percentage on a diagram, which is really tricky.
Why on earth didn't the designers just use numbers, either for the percentage or for times.? Really poor design. OK - may not matter too much you'll think, but I noticed that a small discrepancy in the "on" time of say 5 minutes for the end of the off peak period can lead to the equivalent of an hours peak time tariff being used up. That's around £1.60 - not good. OTOH, set the time or percentage too low, and although the costs will be kept down, the car won't have as much energy stored, so it will take several overnight off-peak sessions to top it up to a usable/useful level.
A useful feature is the ability to be able to put the heating on using a smartphone to defrost the car. However here again there is a gotcha. If the car is plugged in, which Tesla recommend, then perhaps the heating up will use up electricity at peak tariff, whereas if there is enough charge in the batteries, then unplugging the car will simply heat the car using some of the charge injected at lower cost overnight in the off peak charging period. As long as the defrosting is not left on too long, this doesn't reduce the range too much.
The Tesla M3 is not immune to icing up, and it can be almost impossible to open the door at sub zero temperatures, so being able to heat it up remotely using a smartphone is helpful. Note also though, that if the car is still plugged in - which is quite likely - that will also perhaps kick in the issue about the tariffs mentioned above. If this is a concern, which it may be - perhaps should be - then try to disconnect the cable as soon as it's possible to open the door.
I'm not sure whether it's possible to defrost Zoe from outside. It may be - so I'll check. Unfortunately Zoe also has different poor design features. We have to run the charge down quite a long way to avoid it overcharging over night, which reduces the braking efficiency noticeably.
the kona is only getting charged at 3.6kw from the wall charger due to some old cables needing replaced, so is fairly slow but i still got an estimated total of 319 miles at 100%. car is still connected to it so a warmup from the sofa will come from grid, or be replenished that way. obviously you lose a lot if the heating is on, and in these temps you need it. heated wheel and seats come from the small 12v battery, which is then replenished from the traction battery every day.
overall ive been very impressed by the car so far.
walpurgis
12-12-2022, 10:01
Adjust the points and clean the plugs, it'll ne right as rain! :)
dave2010
12-12-2022, 11:11
the kona is only getting charged at 3.6kw from the wall charger due to some old cables needing replaced, so is fairly slow but i still got an estimated total of 319 miles at 100%. car is still connected to it so a warmup from the sofa will come from grid, or be replenished that way. obviously you lose a lot if the heating is on, and in these temps you need it. heated wheel and seats come from the small 12v battery, which is then replenished from the traction battery every day.
overall ive been very impressed by the car so far.We couldn't normally cope with slow chargers, either because of time considerations, or cost ones. The M3 can usually be pushed up to around 80% in 2 or 3 overnight charges. Zoe is quicker, and the issue with that one is to not overcharge it. We try to run the M3 between 40% to 80%, and hardly ever push on to 100%. If we have a long trip and know there are chargers on the way then I charge to 90% before starting, though recently we went to Skye and I tried to do the complete round trip without any additional charging, so broke my own rule, and charged up to 100% before setting off. That was slightly unnerving, and we wondered if we were were going to run out of charge, so hooked up to a slow charger outside a pub - but it was tediously slow and didn't make much difference. In the end we got back easily, with maybe 20-30% left, but I really try to keep the charge in the central range to try to minimise long term battery problems. On a previous trip the hotel we use allowed us to connect our slow charger to get a top up over night, and that worked really quite well. If we go again I'll probably take that option again, as our attempts to get a top up in Kyle failed. We were able to connect to a charger, but quite why our charge card didn't work I have no idea. Perhaps we do need to check that out again, for future occasions. However we have had better luck in the past going east, with one good hotel not far from Aberdeen having really quite fast chargers free of charge for guests.
Are there any chargers which just work with regular credit cards, or are most of them linked to some sort of charging system? I think there are ones in England which simply work with normal CCs.
Takes about 7, hrs to do 30% I guess at that output. I joined charge Scotland at time but so far a year in I've not have to charge anywhere bar home
car was real iced up, and ive just had electricians in all morning fitting a new house board and a waterproof light in bathroom. so to check it was still all going i gave it instructions to charge and to precondition etc.. its de iced car very well..
Pigmy Pony
12-12-2022, 17:41
I have a tin of de-icer, which is now empty.
had to cancel the car service as its too icy for me to risk venturing out the front door. i also had to cancel a food pickup as i wont get out for that either. its double risk when there are no ambulances and no room in hospitals... what a life we have with this govt
i tried salt but it just froze worse lol. judging by forecast i wont be out til after xmas
dave2010
12-12-2022, 18:15
Takes about 7, hrs to do 30% I guess at that output. I joined charge Scotland at time but so far a year in I've not have to charge anywhere bar homeWe have a Chargeplace Scotland card, but it doesn't seem to work right now. Either that, or the chargers don't work.
It's worth taking your car out and trying to charge up at a public charger just to make sure you know how to do it. It shouldn't be difficult, but it often is. You'll have to learn a whole bunch of "stupid" things, such as:
1. How to actually unlock the cable so it will go into your car [some of the older ones were easy, but some just don't want to come off the charge stand. Brute force is sometimes the only way]
2. How to get the charger to start once the cable is plugged into your car. At this point you may need to waive your card at the machine. It may work - it may not.
3. The car and the charger will - with luck - eventually start to "talk" to each other.
4. Sometimes - actually quite often - there is a failure at this point, and you have to take the cable out, put it back on the charger and go back to step 1.
5. Sometimes - again actually more often than really desired - charging starts to lull you into a false sense of security. It may fail soon - so watch - and if it fails go back to step 1. If there's a choice of another machine in the location drive the few feet (usually) to that and try a different machine.
6. If things seem to be going OK, then walk away and do whatever you wanted - go to the shops, etc. Sometime (you guessed - more often than you'd want) the charging stops almost as soon as the charger detects that you're out of range. This is a real bummer if you leave it charging for a day, hoping to get enough charge to get home. Arriving back to find that your car has hardly charged at all, and you can't get home can really piss you off!
7. You should also test out the public chargers more than once. You may find that the one you used yesterday doesn't work today, or when you really need it.
8. Often it takes about 20 minutes to try to kick a public charger into life, which is way longer than getting petrol in a petrol station.
9. Another thing to learn is where the emergency off button is, and how to use this. To start with you'll not be happy doing that, but eventually after 10 or so failed attempts on different days - you may decide to give it a go. This usually requires pressing a big red button quite hard for a second or two, then waiting a few minutes, and hoping that the charger will come back to life. Sometimes they do - and wheheay - you can get a charge. However you may find that it still doesn't, so you've either got to drive home or drive on to another charger - see point 10.
10. Driving to another charger. The next charger you can use may be 20 miles away - not always a problem. However you may find that you drive the extra 20 miles towards (maybe) one of your destinations, and that charger doesn't work either. Sometimes even 3 or more chargers en route may not work, so you give up and continue to home, where you charge up as normal.
This might give you some idea just how much fun it is using Chargeplace Scotland chargers - which are supposed to be easy to use at least along the A9.
There are other chargers, for example BP ones - but you probably need another card for those, though if you apply for a BP card you may get a few pounds of free electricity for the first few uses while you get used to the system.
The one good bit of good news is that some of the Chargeplace chargers have been free to use - though I'm not sure if any are nowadays. Examples: Perth and Dunkeld.
I have no idea whether the Chargeplace Scotland cards need annual renewal or not. Probably - but try contacting Customer Service. You probably won't be able to or won't get any sensible responses - certainly not when you really need it.
Nevertheless - in the interests of science - or whatever - give it a go!
Tesla chargers are difficult the first time - but then you don't have a Tesla so they won't work. Now that we know how to use Tesla chargers I can say that normally they work OK - though at a price.
They are about 5 times more likely to work than Chargeplace Scotland ones.
Good luck.
We have a Chargeplace Scotland card, but it doesn't seem to work right now. Either that, or the chargers don't work.
It's worth taking your car out and trying to charge up at a public charger just to make sure you know how to do it. It shouldn't be difficult, but it often is. You'll have to learn a whole bunch of "stupid" things, such as:
1. How to actually unlock the cable so it will go into your car [some of the older ones were easy, but some just don't want to come off the charge stand. Brute force is sometimes the only way]
2. How to get the charger to start once the cable is plugged into your car. At this point you may need to waive your card at the machine. It may work - it may not.
3. The car and the charger will - with luck - eventually start to "talk" to each other.
4. Sometimes - actually quite often - there is a failure at this point, and you have to take the cable out, put it back on the charger and go back to step 1.
5. Sometimes - again actually more often than really desired - charging starts to lull you into a false sense of security. It may fail soon - so watch - and if it fails go back to step 1. If there's a choice of another machine in the location drive the few feet (usually) to that and try a different machine.
6. If things seem to be going OK, then walk away and do whatever you wanted - go to the shops, etc. Sometime (you guessed - more often than you'd want) the charging stops almost as soon as the charger detects that you're out of range. This is a real bummer if you leave it charging for a day, hoping to get enough charge to get home. Arriving back to find that your car has hardly charged at all, and you can't get home can really piss you off!
7. You should also test out the public chargers more than once. You may find that the one you used yesterday doesn't work today, or when you really need it.
8. Often it takes about 20 minutes to try to kick a public charger into life, which is way longer than getting petrol in a petrol station.
9. Another thing to learn is where the emergency off button is, and how to use this. To start with you'll not be happy doing that, but eventually after 10 or so failed attempts on different days - you may decide to give it a go. This usually requires pressing a big red button quite hard for a second or two, then waiting a few minutes, and hoping that the charger will come back to life. Sometimes they do - and wheheay - you can get a charge. However you may find that it still doesn't, so you've either got to drive home or drive on to another charger - see point 10.
10. Driving to another charger. The next charger you can use may be 20 miles away - not always a problem. However you may find that you drive the extra 20 miles towards (maybe) one of your destinations, and that charger doesn't work either. Sometimes even 3 or more chargers en route may not work, so you give up and continue to home, where you charge up as normal.
This might give you some idea just how much fun it is using Chargeplace Scotland chargers - which are supposed to be easy to use at least along the A9.
There are other chargers, for example BP ones - but you probably need another card for those, though if you apply for a BP card you may get a few pounds of free electricity for the first few uses while you get used to the system.
I have no idea whether the Chargeplace Scotland cards need annual renewal or not. Probably - but try contacting Customer Service. You probably won't be able to or won't get any sensible responses - certainly not when you really need it.
Nevertheless - in the interests of science - or whatever - give it a go!
Good luck.
i think i will just stay within range of my home charger lol... tbh i dont travel that far and car has a very good range.
but thanks for that; its a bit like i suspected:D
Pigmy Pony
12-12-2022, 18:32
had to cancel the car service as its too icy for me to risk venturing out the front door. i also had to cancel a food pickup as i wont get out for that either. its double risk when there are no ambulances and no room in hospitals... what a life we have with this govt
i tried salt but it just froze worse lol. judging by forecast i wont be out til after xmas
Terrible time to be taking any risks, no matter how remote. Keep yourself safe Grant. I plan to leave the house as little as poss in the coming weeks.
Terrible time to be taking any risks, no matter how remote. Keep yourself safe Grant. I plan to leave the house as little as poss in the coming weeks.Yup it's what I'm thinking too. Best of a bad lot, but much better than queuing for 40 hrs to get into a & e.
dave2010
12-12-2022, 19:33
i think i will just stay within range of my home charger lol... tbh i dont travel that far and car has a very good range.
but thanks for that; its a bit like i suspected:DSeems fair, though maybe if the weather does improve next year try then, when there's much less risk of slipping on ice etc.
I went out for a coffee with someone a few days ago and he didn't turn up. Turned out he saw it was icy - and what I didn't know was the he lives about 20 minutes walk (normally) from the cafe. I caught up with him on Zoom a day later, when he explained it all. As it happens I was only about 3-2 minutes (normal) walk from my car to the coffee shop. It took me around 10 minutes to get there, slipping on the ice (but not falling) and that was with the aid of a trekking pole. Getting back to the car was nearly impossible - I did wonder about crawling there, but then I'd probably have been killed by a car driver not noticing me. Ice can be really bad - though this was almost as bad as I've ever known it.
Take care - better to stay in and be safe.
Terrible time to be taking any risks, no matter how remote. Keep yourself safe Grant. I plan to leave the house as little as poss in the coming weeks.
That's my plan all year round. As my mate Budge used to say, 'If you've had to leave the house you've gone wrong somewhere.'
What about shopping - or do you have it delivered?
Pigmy Pony
12-12-2022, 22:25
That's my plan all year round. As my mate Budge used to say, 'If you've had to leave the house you've gone wrong somewhere.'
Unfortunate name, given his philosophy :)
Pigmy Pony
12-12-2022, 22:32
What about shopping - or do you have it delivered?
Mostly, though not exclusively, delivered. I'll not be a hermit, but I will avoid leaving the house in shit weather. And definitely no more ladders or climbing on roofs. Feet on the floor from now on.
walpurgis
13-12-2022, 07:33
That's my plan all year round. As my mate Budge used to say, 'If you've had to leave the house you've gone wrong somewhere.'
Very wise! :)
walpurgis
13-12-2022, 07:42
Demand for electric cars falls. I could see that coming.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-12-12/drop-in-demand-for-electric-cars-as-cost-of-living-crisis-bites
As an aside, I wish somebody would shove Khan's ULEZ thuggery right up him! Lots of folk with trusty old Land Rovers and the like would see him lynched.
Pigmy Pony
13-12-2022, 08:19
The article states that one of the reasons for the fall in demand is the "softening of petrol and diesel prices". I wonder how the government will deal with that? Never the carrot, always the stick.
walpurgis
13-12-2022, 08:33
I can't see the UK need for bullying tactics towards owners of older cars, surely natural attrition will see these all eventually in scrapyards?
My car is very low emission, but I sympathise with those who want to carry on using their trusty older motors. After all, they don't get an MOT if they run dirty.
What about shopping - or do you have it delivered?
yeah i usually get it delivered, or i click n collect. further i stay away from people in general the healthier it is. :lol:
I can't see the UK need for bullying tactics towards owners of older cars, surely natural attrition will see these all eventually in scrapyards?
My car is very low emission, but I sympathise with those who want to carry on using their trusty older motors. After all, they don't get an MOT if they run dirty.
more modern cars seem to be lasting better. in 1994, only 6% of cars over 13 years old were still on road.. in 2019 it was 19%
Pigmy Pony
13-12-2022, 22:41
Corrosion resistance is definitely better these days, you don't see that many rusty cars on the road. In my early days of driving, I used to dream of one day owning a car without rust.
walpurgis
14-12-2022, 08:48
I rustproofed my now eight year old runabout from new. Every accessible area and cavity including scuttle drains has been waxoiled or soaked with oil. Not a spec of rust to be seen even underneath, but it's only done 3000 miles a year. Still on its original battery too.
I rustproofed my now eight year old runabout from new. Every accessible area and cavity including scuttle drains has been waxoiled or soaked with oil. Not a spec of rust to be seen even underneath, but it's only done 3000 miles a year. Still on its original battery too.
my brother used to waxoil his cars. swore by it..
dave2010
14-12-2022, 09:55
I rustproofed my now eight year old runabout from new. Every accessible area and cavity including scuttle drains has been waxoiled or soaked with oil. Not a spec of rust to be seen even underneath, but it's only done 3000 miles a year. Still on its original battery too.I had a new battery put in a Hyundai i10 a few days ago. More than 12 years old I think, and turns out it hasn't had a new battery in that period. It would hardly start on the old battery, but didn't completely fail. Now got to deal the the Peugeot which is going to need a battery and an MOT.
dave2010
14-12-2022, 10:17
Demand for electric cars falls. I could see that coming.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-12-12/drop-in-demand-for-electric-cars-as-cost-of-living-crisis-bites
As an aside, I wish somebody would shove Khan's ULEZ thuggery right up him! Lots of folk with trusty old Land Rovers and the like would see him lynched.Do you actually travel into the LE zone? I'm guessing you have something like a trusty old Land Rover you'd like to use in that area.
I figure you're just outside.
Re the EV drop in demand and sales - is that any more sigificant than the sales of Chelsea tractors such as Discovery Range Rovers and the like?
Do you actually travel into the LE zone? I'm guessing you have something like a trusty old Land Rover you'd like to use in that area.
I figure you're just outside.
Re the EV drop in demand and sales - is that any more sigificant than the sales of Chelsea tractors such as Discovery Range Rovers and the like?
khan intends turning all of london into a le zone... crazy...
walpurgis
14-12-2022, 11:24
Do you actually travel into the LE zone? I'm guessing you have something like a trusty old Land Rover you'd like to use in that area.
I figure you're just outside.
No. I'd like an old diesel non-turbo motor of some sort. But I have a little Suzuki that qualifies for use in the ULEZ, looks like I'll be keeping it for now.
I'm just outside the existing ULEZ zone, but in August that expands to encompass the whole area inside the M25. God help anybody who doesn't realise that they will be liable to the £12.50 daily charge each time they hit the road. I predict a lot of cheap cars for sale very soon.
had to cancel the car service as im still stuck indoors....way too icy to risk
khan intends turning all of london into a le zone... crazy...
aim is to generate revenue which he can then give away to the deadbeats who vote for him.
Pigmy Pony
15-12-2022, 08:06
khan intends turning all of london into a le zone... crazy...
I don't keep up with politics much - is Khan the one with a head like a sucked Malteser?
walpurgis
15-12-2022, 08:12
He's the one with the hooter that's too big for his face.
Pigmy Pony
15-12-2022, 08:25
Ah yes (I had to google him). I was thinking of Sajid Javid.
dave2010
15-12-2022, 10:33
No. I'd like an old diesel non-turbo motor of some sort. But I have a little Suzuki that qualifies for use in the ULEZ, looks like I'll be keeping it for now.
I'm just outside the existing ULEZ zone, but in August that expands to encompass the whole area inside the M25. God help anybody who doesn't realise that they will be liable to the £12.50 daily charge each time they hit the road. I predict a lot of cheap cars for sale very soon.
The ULEZ zone is a good idea, but expanding it out to the M25 doesn't make sense without giving some vehicles exemptions. Surely at this time the main aim should be to prevent heavy duty transport polluters.
The current government is apparently opposed to the expansion - see PMQs yesterday - but typically useless in coming up with ways to modify the plans, or stop them happening.
TBH I didn't fully understand (maybe still don't!) the ULEZ zone - which I now know is similar to, but different from, the Congestion Charge zone.
I suppose if the change "has" to happen, that those who have vehicles - such as land rovers - could sell them on to people outside the zone, or only use them occasionally. Do most cars now fall into the chargeable class, or only a small subset of them?
See https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone/your-vehicle-and-lez
Pigmy Pony
15-12-2022, 21:31
All cars produced after 2016 will be Euro-6, so ULEZ compliant. And even some made before that date. That is my understanding.
saw an invoice for new Tesla wheel trim yesterday - £1500 and that's trade price.
saw an invoice for new Tesla wheel trim yesterday - £1500 and that's trade price.
teslas are a rip off imo. build quality is piss poor.
teslas are a rip off imo. build quality is piss poor.
At work we are running two Model S and a Model Y. Actually they've not been much bother so far and they do look good.
Also got an electric Jag, VW and the Mustang.
At work we are running two Model S and a Model Y. Actually they've not been much bother so far and they do look good.
Also got an electric Jag, VW and the Mustang.
think they go ok, and are fun to drive etc. just not well built; i guess thats what you get for price. my one is well put together, but paint isnt great. still they are better than ice cars i think. unless your a pure petrol head of course.
The only thing any of the drivers complain about is the range. Some of them have to do long distances as they're reps.
The only thing any of the drivers complain about is the range. Some of them have to do long distances as they're reps.
at least tesla have a great set of chargers;; or so im told. ive never needed to charge away from home yet. can get well over 300 in decent weather.
Pigmy Pony
16-12-2022, 17:31
One of our fellow members (I won't name him but he may see this post and elaborate) looked at leasing an Audi e-Tron something or other, and the dealer quoted him £1,800 per month! As if that hadn't been enough to put him off, he asked about the range (I think the figures were something like 250 miles). But when he asked about how his frequent trips to London on business would get along with that range at 70-80 mph, the reply was about 160 mile range. All those miles for the paltry cost of 450 quid a week plus ever-increasing leccy costs.
Evs perfect for shopping and short trips perhaps, for everything else they're not there yet. Nowhere near.
dave2010
16-12-2022, 19:09
think they go ok, and are fun to drive etc. just not well built; i guess thats what you get for price. my one is well put together, but paint isnt great. still they are better than ice cars i think. unless your a pure petrol head of course.Sadly many people are pure petrol heads. People who drive many miles each week probably shouldn't have a pure EV. Most people don't. Even 200 miles per day should be doable (more in the summer) with a Tesla M3 or similar, and indeed the Tesla chargers are fast, so 400 miles/day is possible for anyone who can afford the electricity and is on a route with reliable fast chargers. My hunch is still that hybrids might be the best option for some people.
However some EVs are problematic - depends on the application. I just heard of a local community bus which is an EV (really I think it's like a large van with seats ), which was unable to provide service a few days ago, as to make it work on the routes it needs charging a few times each day, and recently the fast chargers in the nearby town were out of action for some reason. The consequence was that some guys still got to have a lift in an EV - since I helped them out, but the bus which was partly paid for by the local council didn't deliver on that occasion. The current very cold weather is a real killer for EVs - not quite sure why - but it sure doesn't help.
Firebottle
17-12-2022, 07:54
I think all battery technology is less efficient in colder temperatures.
yup the ion transfer is way slower in cold. some cars have heaters on battery to help with this.
Pigmy Pony
17-12-2022, 13:55
I think all battery technology is less efficient in colder temperatures.
Yeah, just stick them in front of the fire for a while, you'll get a bit more out of them. Or give 'em a rub.
car's not been used much for last month so ive plugged it in.. only needs 6% but itll help with small battery too. will need car for tuesday.
dave2010
02-01-2023, 14:40
Can't use cars right now, as frozen up. The Tesla M3 door handles have frozen solid.
If they're slightly frozen a bit of brute force and ignorance can get them open, but not when solid.
Don't really want to go out today anyway, so will leave and maybe see if the weather warms up enough to get the doors open.
In such cold weather the mirrors can't open and retract either. I was able to get the charge port open to release the cable using my mobile phone, and if I did want to go out I could defrost the car from the remote app.
Have locked the car again from the remote in case there's any strain on the mirror mechanisms.
Petrol car battery is flat so needs to be charged up - but can't do that in this weather as can't unlock the doors on that one either. I hoped to be able to do that, as otherwise seems nice and dry.
I really want to get that one MOTd and a new battery installed soon, before deciding whether to tax it for the rest of the year.
Can't use cars right now, as frozen up. The Tesla M3 door handles have frozen solid.
If they're slightly frozen a bit of brute force and ignorance can get them open, but not when solid.
Don't really want to go out today anyway, so will leave and maybe see if the weather warms up enough to get the doors open.
In such cold weather the mirrors can't open and retract either. I was able to get the charge port open to release the cable using my mobile phone, and if I did want to go out I could defrost the car from the remote app.
Have locked the car again from the remote in case there's any strain on the mirror mechanisms.
Petrol car battery is flat so needs to be charged up - but can't do that in this weather as can't unlock the doors on that one either. I hoped to be able to do that, as otherwise seems nice and dry.
I really want to get that one MOTd and a new battery installed soon, before deciding whether to tax it for the rest of the year.
gave mine a run yesterday. it seemed fine. colder today tho
dave2010
04-01-2023, 23:40
gave mine a run yesterday. it seemed fine. colder today thoManaged to kick our petrol car back into life today. Its battery is pretty run down and almost certainly needs replacing, but I need to get it working well enough to drive it for its MOT.
Also, looking at the rules for some breakdown insurance, it seems that doesn't cover cars which haven't got an MOT or in clearly poorly maintained condition, so I need to get this done PDQ to keep cover. Hopefully won't be a problem, but the off the road SORN condition which I know some people have adopted from the start of the Covid pandemic does need to be factored in carefully. Cars which are used regularly are perhaps less likely to have problems than cars which are "mothballed" for long periods. It would be a pain to have to call out a breakdown truck without any insurance cover, so it makes sense to keep cars MOTd each year even if not used much, or SORNd.
AJSki2fly
05-01-2023, 08:02
Managed to kick our petrol car back into life today. Its battery is pretty run down and almost certainly needs replacing, but I need to get it working well enough to drive it for its MOT.
Also, looking at the rules for some breakdown insurance, it seems that doesn't cover cars which haven't got an MOT or in clearly poorly maintained condition, so I need to get this done PDQ to keep cover. Hopefully won't be a problem, but the off the road SORN condition which I know some people have adopted from the start of the Covid pandemic does need to be factored in carefully. Cars which are used regularly are perhaps less likely to have problems than cars which are "mothballed" for long periods. It would be a pain to have to call out a breakdown truck without any insurance cover, so it makes sense to keep cars MOTd each year even if not used much, or SORNd.
Check the manufacturers out of use date on the tyres as well, or on the tech spec for them, most are only good for 5-6 years irrespective of tread wear, this because they go hard and become dangerous especially on wet roads, think about driving on ice.
Lots of insurance companies specify in the small print that if ancillary/wearable parts are out of manufacturers date then the insurance is invalidated, this includes tyres!
Do tyres need changing after 5 years?
According to Michelin, an average tyre should last 25,000 miles. However, if you don't use your car very much - or own a classic - then tyre manufacturers' recommend that all tyres regardless of depth should be replaced after 10 years. We'd recommend having all tyres inspected annually if they're older than five years..
dave2010
05-01-2023, 08:38
Thanks for these comments - though I assume the tyres will be checked during the MOT.
walpurgis
05-01-2023, 08:43
Do tyres need changing after 5 years?
My car tyres are about five years old and are in good nick as far as I can see, having covered less than 5K miles. If they pass the next MOT that'll do.
Pigmy Pony
05-01-2023, 08:58
I don't see ageing as having much effect on the steel plies of a tyre, so they should be structurally sound. The weather may well affect the rubber over time, particularly sunlight, which is prob why I sometimes see caravans parked up with covers over their tyres. I would expect some visual clues, ie cracking of the rubber to appear before the tyres became a write off.
more info on this..https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138
there is a 'born' date on tyres by way. its a 4 number code giving week and year
Pigmy Pony
05-01-2023, 09:37
more info on this..https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138
Well that's me told. not that I ever get more than 2 or 3 years out of a tyre. Except probably the bikes - I think the front ones may be over 5 years.
Well that's me told. not that I ever get more than 2 or 3 years out of a tyre. Except probably the bikes - I think the front ones may be over 5 years.
mine have just a bit over 2k in a year lol... its a very heavy car tho and i expect wear will be much more on an ev.
edit.. just checked and its coming in at 1.65 imp ton, which for a fairly smallish car is a lot i guess. its 200 kg heavier than my last car the toyota
got it booked in for service for tomorrow.. its well overdue and keeps informing me of fact lol..
Pigmy Pony
05-01-2023, 10:43
mine have just a bit over 2k in a year lol... its a very heavy car tho and i expect wear will be much more on an ev.
edit.. just checked and its coming in at 1.65 imp ton, which for a fairly smallish car is a lot i guess. its 200 kg heavier than my last car the toyota
I wouldn't expect an electric motor to be as big and heavy a lump as a diesel or petrol engine, especially when you include the fuel and exhaust systems. So what makes it so heavy? Is it the batteries?
I wouldn't expect an electric motor to be as big and heavy a lump as a diesel or petrol engine, especially when you include the fuel and exhaust systems. So what makes it so heavy? Is it the batteries?
guess battery will be a biggish %, but sure i read somewhere it was about 1000lbs. not sure what an engine and gearbox weighs
AJSki2fly
05-01-2023, 11:31
Do tyres need changing after 5 years?
According to Michelin, an average tyre should last 25,000 miles. However, if you don't use your car very much - or own a classic - then tyre manufacturers' recommend that all tyres regardless of depth should be replaced after 10 years. We'd recommend having all tyres inspected annually if they're older than five years..
I repeat, whatever you think, you need to follow the manufacturers instructions for the tyre. If they state it need to be replaced after ‘N’ years or they have a date stamp on them and year indicator then that needs to followed. Michelin state 25k as wear indicator and they know on most cars they will do 10k a year, so will be replace well before a normal 5-6 years on a car.
I have had this discussions many times when I used to own a Morgan, many old boys would do less than 2k miles a year and keep the same tyres year after year. One had the same set for over 12 years and very nearly wrote his off in average conditions because they were like bullets, this was even after a main dealer at service had told the owner several times to replace the tyres, utter madness.
Another owner had a minor accident, it went in for repair and the insurance company refused to pay out as the tyres were 2 years beyond the recommended date stamp, even though they had 5mm of tread. It cost him nearly £3k for the repair.
So it’s up to you but I would checked carefully
To the driver who said that steel radials are fine. After being on a car for many years sat in a garage, again likely to be wrong. They will flat spot if the car is not moved and used regularly. If it going to sit for long periods, 2-3 months or more, then either over inflate the tyres by at least 10psi or jack it up or put on blocks/axle stands. If you don’t the tyres will deform and driving will be an unpleasant experience due to vibration that you may think is out of balance wheels.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My car has been off the road, tucked away in a detached garage (and hence not heated) for three months (a little over twelve weeks).
It started first time, and there is no problem with the tires and the 'ride' at all.
Sitting in showroom while mine is serviced.
Hot choc was good lol
Sitting in showroom while mine is serviced.
Hot choc was good lol
all done and home. road wasnt too busy.
Sitting in showroom while mine is serviced.
Hot choc was good lol
https://i.ibb.co/RDvqkcd/homer.jpg (https://ibb.co/W2xL4fj)
upload a photo (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/RDvqkcd/homer.jpg (https://ibb.co/W2xL4fj)
upload a photo (https://imgbb.com/)Yes a bit like that as the earbuds I took with me turned out to be flat..drat
I don't know how anyone can use earbuds, they seem so uncomfortable to me, like when you first put a collar on a cat and it tries everything to get it off.
When I was working from home they issued us with earbuds for telephone calls. I wasn't having it, told them I already had tinnitus and they would make it worse. Of course they pushed back but in the end they sent someone round to deliver me a proper headset. Still got the earbuds in the box, never going to use them.
I don't know how anyone can use earbuds, they seem so uncomfortable to me, like when you first put a collar on a cat and it tries everything to get it off.
When I was working from home they issued us with earbuds for telephone calls. I wasn't having it, told them I already had tinnitus and they would make it worse. Of course they pushed back but in the end they sent someone round to deliver me a proper headset. Still got the earbuds in the box, never going to use them.
good buds are usually pretty, em...good lol. getting the fit right is the trick. they generally dont go as loud as full size headphones
dave2010
08-01-2023, 12:55
Another view of EVs - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-ive-pulled-the-plug-on-my-electric-car-dwgs9l9hl - though the writer seems a bit clueless. However, I shall add Jaguar cars to my list of EVs not to buy.
Another view of EVs - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-ive-pulled-the-plug-on-my-electric-car-dwgs9l9hl - though the writer seems a bit clueless. However, I shall add Jaguar cars to my list of EVs not to buy.
think i read that elsewhere lol.. he seems to have had issues tbh, although i dont think it is the norm. you do get friday afternoon cars on occasion.
AJSki2fly
08-01-2023, 17:21
Another view of EVs - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-ive-pulled-the-plug-on-my-electric-car-dwgs9l9hl - though the writer seems a bit clueless. However, I shall add Jaguar cars to my list of EVs not to buy.
Only any good if you subscribe to the Times I’m afraid
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I read it on Google in phone
I don't know how anyone can use earbuds, they seem so uncomfortable to me, like when you first put a collar on a cat and it tries everything to get it off.
When I was working from home they issued us with earbuds for telephone calls. I wasn't having it, told them I already had tinnitus and they would make it worse. Of course they pushed back but in the end they sent someone round to deliver me a proper headset. Still got the earbuds in the box, never going to use them.
I thought it was illegal to drive whilst using a personal stereo (e.g a Sony Walkman) because wearing headphones would limit, interfere and be distracting to one's hearing.
Clearly, I was wrong as yesterday I was traveling in a taxi, and the driver was wearing earbuds, using them to call the taxi centre, yet could readily hear our conversation in the back of the cab.
I thought it was illegal to drive whilst using a personal stereo (e.g a Sony Walkman) because wearing headphones would limit, interfere and be distracting to one's hearing.
Clearly, I was wrong as yesterday I was traveling in a taxi, and the driver was wearing earbuds, using them to call the taxi centre, yet could readily hear our conversation in the back of the cab.
modern earbuds usually have anc and can be made 'transparent' for hearing other stuff. maybe why they are allowed now. i think the old ones, although perhaps not specifically illegal, the user would be done for some highway code violation.
Isn't modern technology marvelous - until it goes wrong.
Again referring to the taxi ride, I noticed that the rearview mirror was actually a TV display and was a split screen: one half showing the rear view, the second the forward view. I suppose that if the system failed, the driver would have to rely on the wing mirrors. :doh:
Isn't modern technology marvelous - until it goes wrong.
Again referring to the taxi ride, I noticed that the rearview mirror was actually a TV display and was a split screen: one half showing the rear view, the second the forward view. I suppose that if the system failed, the driver would have to rely on the wing mirrors. :doh:
i wonder if he can switch to 'upskirt tv' lol yes its great til it goes heywire, which of course it does from time to time.
AJSki2fly
09-01-2023, 13:06
Another view of EVs - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-ive-pulled-the-plug-on-my-electric-car-dwgs9l9hl - though the writer seems a bit clueless. However, I shall add Jaguar cars to my list of EVs not to buy.
What a surprise, the Jaguar I-pace is not exactly known for reliability unless it has improved in recent years. Their charging rate is not great and poor on efficiency, a case of taking a car designed for petrol/diesel engine originally and Turing it into an EV, it rarely works well.
So I would say he chose the wrong car for what he wanted to do with it. A long range Tesla would have been more appropriate and also cost less, or a Polestar or Genesis would have been better.
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What a surprise, the Jaguar I-pace is not exactly known for reliability unless it has improved in recent years. Their charging rate is not great and poor on efficiency, a case of taking a car designed for petrol/diesel engine originally and Turing it into an EV, it rarely works well.
So I would say he chose the wrong car for what he wanted to do with it. A long range Tesla would have been more appropriate and also cost less, or a Polestar or Genesis would have been better.
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one of the best ice conversions to ev was the kona i have. it works surprisingly well and embarrasses many dearer cars for its range etc. it does better than it says on tin too. alas its now leaving production and a newer model is coming out. it looks a bit kia in style not surprisingly lol
Tesla and Polestar are the only EVs that have good looks IMO. The 'S' looks like proper cars used to and the 'Y' is pretty cute in an 80s Jap sportscar way, reminds me of the Ford 'Probe' which as we all know was really a Mazda. Polestar 1 is a cool looking car, but the 2 - forget about it.
The rest are no worse styling than modern conventional cars i.e boring or plain ugly. Worst has to be the 'Mustang Mach E' just the ugliest car to ever bear that name and I include the 1980s versions in that.
Tesla and Polestar are the only EVs that have good looks IMO. The 'S' looks like proper cars used to and the 'Y' is pretty cute in an 80s Jap sportscar way, reminds me of the Ford 'Probe' which as we all know was really a Mazda. Polestar 1 is a cool looking car, but the 2 - forget about it.
The rest are no worse styling than modern conventional cars i.e boring or plain ugly. Worst has to be the 'Mustang Mach E' just the ugliest car to ever bear that name and I include the 1980s versions in that.
Don't forget the Audi GT e tron, looks amazing.
Don't forget the Audi GT e tron, looks amazing.
Not so sure, it's not terrible like the Jag, Ford and VW but then I've never been keen on Audi styling.
https://i.ibb.co/MMJz7N4/Audi-e-Tron-GT.webp (https://ibb.co/syXTq3G)
I think it looks better in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5MHzbNLr4I
I think it looks better in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5MHzbNLr4I
It does but still I think it falls a bit short. It only looks good from a few angles, from the others it is just a bit too bland for me.
It's loads better looking than this travesty though:
https://i.ibb.co/6Rx8dgF/mustang-mach-e.webp (https://ibb.co/svGCByq)
my kona is ok looking.. not gonna wow the crowds but then its not supposed to. its just an honest little motor to get from a to b in comfort, safety and not cost the earth. although winter does suck power from battery due to heating. an advantage of ice is you get the heating free
AJSki2fly
10-01-2023, 07:57
my kona is ok looking.. not gonna wow the crowds but then its not supposed to. its just an honest little motor to get from a to b in comfort, safety and not cost the earth. although winter does suck power from battery due to heating. an advantage of ice is you get the heating free
Yep Kona EV was one that does a good job. I think the main issue is when car manufacturers who have decades of ICE build mentality really struggle to get what you need to do to make an efficient and cost effective EV. To try and keep up with the competition they take the easy route until the rubbish product gets slammed.
dave2010
10-01-2023, 11:55
my kona is ok looking.. not gonna wow the crowds but then its not supposed to. its just an honest little motor to get from a to b in comfort, safety and not cost the earth. although winter does suck power from battery due to heating. an advantage of ice is you get the heating free
Another way of looking at it is that most of the year, when you don’t need much heat, an ICE car is just warming the crows - at the owner’s expense.
Another way of looking at it is that most of the year, when you don’t need much heat, an ICE car is just warming the crows - at the owner’s expense.
Also, electric vehicles don't need to convert reciprocating motion into rotary motion because the EV's electric motor is already spinning. This leads to a 50% gain in efficiency of 80% for an EV to only 30% with an ice, and with very little friction and vibration. Its horses for courses really. Long distance the ice goes further and refuels much quicker. Costs of fuel vary depending on where you get it as does electricity. At home charging may be relatively slow but its still way cheaper. If doing less than 150 miles a day and usually arrive home at night your on a winner.
dave2010
10-01-2023, 15:02
If doing less than 150 miles a day and usually arrive home at night your on a winner.Absolutely - as long as you remember to plug your car in.
I have met people at chargers who "forgot" to charge up the day before, or whose charger failed. Our home charger did fail, and we were without a good home unit for a few weeks while we complained, and eventually got a working replacement.
I just saw this - which is quite interesting - though not really a "good" solution - https://youtu.be/6liX9KuSwkk - Hydrogen ICE cars.
Absolutely - as long as you remember to plug your car in.
I have met people at chargers who "forgot" to charge up the day before, or whose charger failed. Our home charger did fail, and we were without a good home unit for a few weeks while we complained, and eventually got a working replacement.
I just saw this - which is quite interesting - though not really a "good" solution - https://youtu.be/6liX9KuSwkk - Hydrogen ICE cars.
yes if you can find any hydrogen... think there is only one in scotland
Pigmy Pony
10-01-2023, 15:15
Isn't modern technology marvelous - until it goes wrong.
Again referring to the taxi ride, I noticed that the rearview mirror was actually a TV display and was a split screen: one half showing the rear view, the second the forward view. I suppose that if the system failed, the driver would have to rely on the wing mirrors. :doh:
Have you never been behind a taxi? They don't use their mirrors :eek:
AJSki2fly
10-01-2023, 16:23
Also, electric vehicles don't need to convert reciprocating motion into rotary motion because the EV's electric motor is already spinning. This leads to a 50% gain in efficiency of 80% for an EV to only 30% with an ice, and with very little friction and vibration. Its horses for courses really. Long distance the ice goes further and refuels much quicker. Costs of fuel vary depending on where you get it as does electricity. At home charging may be relatively slow but its still way cheaper. If doing less than 150 miles a day and usually arrive home at night your on a winner.
Yes that's right Grant, but it can be even more cost effective with an EV. We power ours for about 50% from solar, so free motoring, the rest is a mix of Supercharging and Overnight cheap rate with Octopus. Below is a table which gives the real figures from our usage.
Even if we had paid 10p/kwh for the electricity we got free, by charging overnight all the time, this would have only have cost an additional £38.67
If we had done this in a ICE(petrol) car doing 40mpg it would have cost £780 give or take £10, and that takes into account petrol prices as they changed.
So saving £680 in 10 months:) just think if we were doing 10K miles a year then the savings would be about 3 times that. Plus it is much more Carbon efficient.
Anyone who thinks an EV is not cost effective does not really understand it fully IMO, you need to buy an efficient one that charges quickly, and charge from a home charger as much as possible and use overnight cheap charging as much as possible, only use superchargers if away on long trips. If you want to make even bigger saving savings and it sits at home 80% of the time stick 6 solar panels on the roof and charge it from them in the day for 2/3 of the year.
Travelled
% of total Miles
Kwh used
Electricity cost
% of Cost
Cost per mile
Home Charge (0.21p/Kwh - pre Octopus)
313
8.8
77.5
£13.97
13.8
£0.04
Tesla Supercharger
1202
33.7
310.35
£74.48
73.4
£0.06
Octopus Cheap rate
674
17.5
260.86
£13.05
12.9
£0.02
Free No charge
2048
57.8
386.73
£0.00
Totals
3563
£101.50
£0.03
mileage i do it isnt worth getting a cheap night rate alas. good figures there Adrian..
And if you factor in the cost of the solar panels, is it still cheaper than a petrol car?
AJSki2fly
11-01-2023, 07:59
And if you factor in the cost of the solar panels, is it still cheaper than a petrol car?
Plus if you are not charging the car it can run the house, also you can add more panels gradually and if you put in at least a 10kwh battery you can charge that up with cheap electric over night and run the house off it in the day during winter. A bit of a cost up front but worth doing long term 5-10 years
dave2010
11-01-2023, 10:41
yes if you can find any hydrogen... think there is only one in scotlandApparently the NHS uses Mirais in Scotland and they run between Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow - so there's a hydrogen point somewhere. In England almost all the hydrogen points are in London.
Hydrogen is not a "solution" for now, and it may never be, but it's quite interesting to see some of the thinking and systems which might just work. I believe California just about has a viable hydrogen network, and one advantage it has for cars is the very fast refill time, plus of course the extended range with some vehicles.
Apparently the NHS uses Mirais in Scotland and they run between Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow - so there's a hydrogen point somewhere. In England almost all the hydrogen points are in London.
Hydrogen is not a "solution" for now, and it may never be, but it's quite interesting to see some of the thinking and systems which might just work. I believe California just about has a viable hydrogen network, and one advantage it has for cars is the very fast refill time, plus of course the extended range with some vehicles.
only one i know of is down near musselburgh outside edinburgh.. wallyford to be exact
dave2010
11-01-2023, 14:11
only one i know of is down near musselburgh outside edinburgh.. wallyford to be exactHere's an update on the US hydrogen networks - https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/california-is-getting-new-fueling-stations-for-hydrogen-cars-but-who-will-use-them/
dave2010
11-01-2023, 16:10
A slightly different issue here - FSD.
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-fsd-causes-8-car-pile-up-on-sf-bay-bridge-1849970615
and also
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-in-full-self-driving-mode-caused-8-car-pile-up-r-1849922546
he seemed to try and change lanes when it happened which may have made things worse as the traffic in other lane wasnt following his speed, but again if it was the computer then it is likely another nail in its coffin... and musks.. tesla and his new toy are burning down
Zoidburg
12-01-2023, 13:27
After selling my triumph speed triple a few months back I'm looking forward to collecting my first KTM at the weekend. It's a 1090 adventure. Given my slight hip discomfort from an old back injury this slim v twin engine and an upright riding position it should be a good fit for me. I can't wait to put some miles on it! 3076630767
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Pigmy Pony
12-01-2023, 16:44
After selling my triumph speed triple a few months back I'm looking forward to collecting my first KTM at the weekend. It's a 1090 adventure. Given my slight hip discomfort from an old back injury this slim v twin engine and an upright riding position it should be a good fit for me. I can't wait to put some miles on it! 3076630767
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Forget your "traditional" touring bikes, if you want to do serious mileages in comfort this is the bike to have imo. During a holiday in the Scottish Highlands a couple of years ago, these KTMs were everywhere. So cool.
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