The Marco-boy main system, as of August 2020

[Marco]

Yo, Robster...

So how would you say your SP10 (which arm and cartridge do you have on it, and also plinth?) compares in that respect, and musically overall, with your heavily-modded Techy, which I think was pretty much identical to mine, certainly in terms of the MN bearing/base plate, ETP platter and all the Paul Hynes stuff?

When you get a chance....

Marco.

[Barry]

No - I meant what I wrote.

Moving magnet cartridges (I prefer the term 'fixed-coil' cartridge) are relatively immune to the resistive loading: it doesn't matter much if they are loaded with 39K, 47K, or 68K. They are however susceptable to changes in the capacitive loading, and this will depend on actual cartridge and the inductance of the coils. And that is what your 'tuning' kit does; it allows you to change the capacitance by changing the loading plugs.

Most Shure cartridges have a coil inductance of around 500 to 650mH, and like to 'see' a capacitive loading of around 400 to 500pF. The internal arm wiring and tonearm leads will contribute about 100pF. I don't know what the loading capacitance of Glenn's preamp is, but I'm guessing it's around 120pF, so in total you will have about 220pF, suggesting you need to add 180pF with the loading plugs. You will obviously need to experiment and tune by ear, but no harm will be done if you don't get the loading correct.

[struth]

my phono stage has a button to select 100, 220, 320 capacitence for any cart, button for resistence too. modern tech

[RobbieGong]

Quote Originally Posted by Marco
So how would you say your SP10 (which arm and cartridge do you have on it, and also plinth?) compares in that respect, and musically overall, with your heavily-modded Techy, which I think was pretty much identical to mine, certainly in terms of the MN bearing/base plate, ETP platter and all the Paul Hynes stuff?


Hey Marcy,

Yeah, it's one I was always very curious about, especially having gone the full hog, in terms of heavily modding my 1210, with the best stuf like yourself.

Having spent good time with it, I can honestly say that it is a pretty close thing, which is testimony to how good the 12XX quartz system is and how much you can elevate it sonically with the right mods/upgrades.

I'm a critical listener as yooz know here and having listened to both, hard and proper with pretty much same speakers, amp, cart, etc (save the improved Yannis 423.5Plus tonearm cable over the excellent 423.5),

I can say without bias that the SP10 is better but most definitely not in an immediate and overly, 'wipes the floor with' kind of way.

It just allows the cart/tonearm/system set-up to reveal/ lay bare that bit more infinite recorded / vinyl music info. I guess i'm saying it resolves a bit deeper and better still,

It is subtle but definitely apparent through long listening and sessions getting through lots of music.

My guess is that this is probably largely or at least in good part, down to the extra beefy torqueyness of the SP10 motor system, which is also very silent.

It is industrial almost and a very neutral platform for vinyl replay.


Btw - Plinth is Panzerholtz, Tonearm is Technics EP-250, cart is Cadenza Black with Fritz Gyger S re-tip .... see here https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...nics-SP10-MKll

[Marco]

No - I meant what I wrote.

Moving magnet cartridges (I prefer the term 'fixed-coil' cartridge) are relatively immune to the resistive loading: it doesn't matter much if they are loaded with 39K, 47K, or 68K. They are however susceptable to changes in the capacitive loading, and this will depend on actual cartridge and the inductance of the coils. And that is what your 'tuning' kit does; it allows you to change the capacitance by changing the loading plugs.

Most Shure cartridges have a coil inductance of around 500 to 650mH, and like to 'see' a capacitive loading of around 400 to 500pF. The internal arm wiring and tonearm leads will contribute about 100pF. I don't know what the loading capacitance of Glenn's preamp is, but I'm guessing it's around 120pF, so in total you will have about 220pF, suggesting you need to add 180pF with the loading plugs. You will obviously need to experiment and tune by ear, but no harm will be done if you don't get the loading correct.

Very helpful, Barry, thanks. Just wanted to clarify what you were saying

So... Best to start with the 'Green' plugs then (from the stated list): https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/6...le_Accessories

What effect, sonically, would you expect adding more capacitance to give?

Marco.

[Marco]

Quote Originally Posted by Marco
So how would you say your SP10 (which arm and cartridge do you have on it, and also plinth?) compares in that respect, and musically overall, with your heavily-modded Techy, which I think was pretty much identical to mine, certainly in terms of the MN bearing/base plate, ETP platter and all the Paul Hynes stuff?


Hey Marcy,

Yeah, it's one I was always very curious about, especially having gone the full hog, in terms of heavily modding my 1210, with the best stuf like yourself.

Having spent good time with it, I can honestly say that it is a pretty close thing, which is testimony to how good the 12XX quartz system is and how much you can elevate it sonically with the right mods/upgrades.

I'm a critical listener as yooz know here and having listened to both, hard and proper with pretty much same speakers, amp, cart, etc (save the improved Yannis 423.5Plus tonearm cable over the excellent 423.5),

I can say without bias that the SP10 is better but most definitely not in an immediate and overly, wipes the floor with kind of way.

It just allows the cart/tonearm/system set-up to reveal/ lay bare that bit more infinite recording / music info. I guess i'm saying it resolves a bit deeper and better still,

It is subtle but definitely apparent through long listening and sessions getting through lots of music.

My guess is that this is probably largely or at least in good part, down to the extra beefy torqueyness of the SP10 motor system, which is also very silent.

It is industrial almost and a very neutral platform for vinyl replay.

Nice one, Rob. That makes perfect sense to me

I always said that the goal, for anyone serious about modding the 1210, was to get it as close as possible to sounding like an SP10, by addressing all relevant areas of weakness, and which is exactly why you did what you did with yours, and me the same!

In effect, what you then end up with is a 'neutral platform', simply hearing the sonic signature of the arm and cartridge. Have you had your SP10 serviced? For me, that would be mandatory, so that I knew that it was performing to spec, exactly the same as it did when it left the factory, and therefore capable of performing at 100% of its capability.

As you know, the SP10 is full of electronic circuitry, filled with loads of capacitors, and after nearly 50 years, a lot, if not all of them will have drifted, so if you haven't had it serviced (by someone who genuinely knows what they're doing, and has the necessary equipment), you've probably still got more to come!

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Nice one, Rob. That makes perfect sense to me

I always said that the goal, for anyone serious about modding the 1210, was to get it as close as possible to sounding like an SP10, by addressing all relevant areas of weakness, and which is exactly why you did what you did, and me the same!

In effect, what you then end up with is a 'neutral platform', simply hearing the sonic signature of the arm and cartridge. Have you had your SP10 serviced? For me, that would be mandatory, so that I knew that it was performing to spec, exactly the same as it did when it left the factory, and therefore capable of performing at 100% of its capability.

As you know, the SP10 is full of electronic circuitry, filled with loads of capacitors, and after nearly 50 years, a lot, if not all of them will have drifted, so if you haven't had it serviced (by someone who genuinely knows what they're doing, and has the necessary equipment, you've probably still got more to come!

Marco.

Bang on Marco,

The 12XX when modded how we have is a cracking turntable ! hence having had my jaw drop on enough occasions with mine, I was v curious to see how it would stand up against the SP10 and as I say, there's no floor wiping difference as some would like to believe.

Mine was fully serviced and fine tuned by Angus. He produced the plinth too and sorted and mounted both the motor and tonearm.

[Barry]

I can only refer you to some measured (as distinct from calculated) results, for a typical Shure cartridge:



The idea is that any cartridge will have a treble resonance due to stylus tip mass and the high-frequency compliance value (never quoted by cartridge manufacurers) of the suspension. This mechanical resonance is tamed and reduced by a complementary electrical loading.

In general it is trade-off between a flat but curtailed frequency response, and a sagging but extended frequency response.

I could refer you to some 34 pages on the vinylengine forum, but there is as much dogmatic and muddled thinking expressed there as there is sensible advice.

Just use your ears: no harm will be done if the loading is wrong.

[DarrenHW]

Lol - are you still finding the weather warm? For me, it's been ok now for well over a week. However, during that hot spell where it was 30C+, that was a killer!

Which 4K disc spinner have you got? Bet that's made a different with movies, especially with that awesome screen of yours!

Glad you sorted your speaker out, although before I left last time everything was sounding pretty good! Btw, what do you mean by installing a screen? You've already got one

Yeah, give me a bell when you fancy a seshanto!

Marco.

For a pasty southern softy like me, it's too hot once it passes 20C, even the couple of hours of sun we had yesterday tried to break me!

I picked up a Panasonic DP-UB820EB back in April and apart from the fact that it has an interface that would have felt outdated in 2010 I'm very happy with it.

This is the screen I'm going to use https://www.amazon.co.uk/Screens-SB1...ef_=ast_slp_dp when you came round it was, and still is projected straight onto the wall.

I need to order some Monoprice HDMI's to compare against the Audioquest cables I'm currently using and I'm calling the Home Cinema done for the foreseeable.

I'm quite happy with it now, but I'm hoping for a significant cumulative benefit of Mains, Screen & HDMI.

I'm a bit gutted you've sold the SPU, I bloody loved that in your system, hands down the best vinyl replay I've heard. I know what you're saying though and personally I'd never drop that sort of money on a cart, especially considering my clumsy nature!

[Barry]

I'm a bit gutted you've sold the SPU, I bloody loved that in your system, hands down the best vinyl replay I've heard.

I was surprised to learn Marco had long sold his SPU. I wish I had known at the time - I would have bought it!