View Full Version : Jimbos Audio ramblings
Jim, are you going down the route of vintage silver disc spinners?
I am more convinced using a CDP for digital playback than streaming or File Based Audio so it is really about finding the best combination of CDP and DAC or in this case just a great CD Player with its own great DAC.:)
I probably had the same magazine Martin and the Meridian 206 would have been way out of my price range then.
But having listened to it I have to say those Meridian guys certainly knew what they were doing then with their implementation of the Phillips TDA 1541 chip and CD mechanism. Their reworking of these items delivers a magnificent sound even by todays standard!
Mr Lampizator is not of a very high opinion of the 207. Is the 206 better than the 207?
I ask as there is a cheap 207 being sold locally.
My Lampizator is not of a very high opinion of the 207. Is the 206 better than the 207?
I ask as there is a cheap 207 being sold locally.
I believe the 206 lost the preamplifier of the 207 but has a better dedicated audio stage.
Another ramble.... The mighty ATC SCM 150 ASL speakers with CHORD DAVE DAC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANvjavUhkc
brian2957
18-07-2024, 15:41
Excellent again mate. What a system :interesting:
Excellent again mate. What a system :interesting:
Yes indeed mate. Fabulous sound, Old school meets modern I felt. Good combination.
Nice review. Can we have one with the system playing? I know that some may say that there is no point etc etc etc but it's a bit like watching a cooking programme where they taste the food and make all these appreciative noises but the viewer is left to wonder.
Nice review. Can we have one with the system playing? I know that some may say that there is no point etc etc etc but it's a bit like watching a cooking programme where they taste the food and make all these appreciative noises but the viewer is left to wonder.
I will record a bit when next up there and pop it up as a Youtube short!:)
I will record a bit when next up there and pop it up as a Youtube short!:)
Thanks James. It's not only to get some of idea of sound but the sort of music that is played as one may not have heard it before and can try it in your own system. I have recorded a 10min vid of my system with various short snippets of what I listen to, despite having a YT channel from years ago my latest phone won't transfer the vid to my laptop so that I can load it up.
Thanks James. It's not only to get some of idea of sound but the sort of music that is played as one may not have heard it before and can try it in your own system. I have recorded a 10min vid of my system with various short snippets of what I listen to, despite having a YT channel from years ago my latest phone won't transfer the vid to my laptop so that I can load it up.
The only problem maybe copyright contravention when playing music via Youtube.
Another ramble.... The mighty ATC SCM 150 ASL speakers with CHORD DAVE DAC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANvjavUhkc
Is this the same fellow who had the KEF Blades? If so which did you prefer, KEF or ATC?
Is this the same fellow who had the KEF Blades? If so which did you prefer, KEF or ATC?
Yes same chap.
To be honest they are both great in their own way. The Blades are more controlled and the ATCs are warmer maybe more natural? I liked both very much but would probably choose the Blades for my own system. However I would like to hear the ATC SCM 100s as they could be ideal size/performance.
Yes same chap.
To be honest they are both great in their own way. The Blades are more controlled and the ATCs are warmer maybe more natural? I liked both very much but would probably choose the Blades for my own system. However I would like to hear the ATC SCM 100s as they could be ideal size/performance.
I had a listen to the 100s many years ago now at one of the Wigwam shows, I thought they were really good, and they could properly kick it out even in a huge room.
They had the active 50 SE at the show the other week, they'd be more than enough for any non-ballroom size space I reckon. But actives not for me, too much aggro if there's a problem with the amps. You can't just swap in another and carry on. Whole thing has to go for repair.
Never heard Blades sound good but sure that's due to KEFs poor set up at the shows. I think I would like them if done right.
I had a listen to the 100s many years ago now at one of the Wigwam shows, I thought they were really good, and they could properly kick it out even in a huge room.
They had the active 50 SE at the show the other week, they'd be more than enough for any non-ballroom size space I reckon. But actives not for me, too much aggro if there's a problem with the amps. You can't just swap in another and carry on. Whole thing has to go for repair.
Never heard Blades sound good but sure that's due to KEFs poor set up at the shows. I think I would like them if done right.
Yeah the 50s are nice and heard some up at Steves but then moved onto the 150s which are in another league. You could almost run a small gig with them. I feel I would go for the passive versions of the ATC myself but the amps they use for the actives are built in house and tailored to the speakers very well.
I have heard the blades for years and they can sound truly awesome but need a decent amp with lots of grunt. They are a weird speaker in that they don't sound like the look or what you expect but I have been very impressed with them.
Wakefield Turntables
20-07-2024, 13:48
I own active 50's and can say that have been completely faultless and pretty much bomb proof from day one, mine could probably do with being upgraded as new amp packs and driver units have been designed since I purchased mine. I have to agree that 50's are more than enough for your average listening room. Partnered with a ATC pre-amp and you have an amazing (well IMHO) that will last for decade and be totally neutral.
I own active 50's and can say that have been completely faultless and pretty much bomb proof from day one, mine could probably do with being upgraded as new amp packs and driver units have been designed since I purchased mine. I have to agree that 50's are more than enough for your average listening room. Partnered with a ATC pre-amp and you have an amazing (well IMHO) that will last for decade and be totally neutral.
Didn't know you had 50s Andy. They are a nice size but I could certainly fit the 100s in my new listening room?:)
Wakefield Turntables
20-07-2024, 14:45
Yep, had them quite some time now, bought 2nd hand for way less than what they cost nowadays! I've got two big Tannoy wardrobes in my listening room that would probably dwarf the 100's, altough I bet there wouldn't be that much in it size wise.
Didn't know you had 50s Andy. They are a nice size but I could certainly fit the 100s in my new listening room?:)
The 100s cost the thick end of 21 grand and you're probably not ever going to want the additional levels they can do in your room - isn't that room you listened to them in very large - IIRC?
Mind they are only £4K more than the 50 so I suppose you might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb ;)
Wakefield Turntables
20-07-2024, 15:24
So a pair of 50's is now £17K :eek:.
So a pair of 50's is now £17K :eek:.
Yeah, they're not exactly giving them away.
The 100s cost the thick end of 21 grand and you're probably not ever going to want the additional levels they can do in your room - isn't that room you listened to them in very large - IIRC?
Mind they are only £4K more than the 50 so I suppose you might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb ;)
Yes the room dwarfs even the 150s. They are not particularly tall speakers but massive bulk. The front baffles are about an inch thick! Effortless bass and room filling dynamics.
Spendy!
Indeed Gary as was the rest of the system I was listening too. Cables alone were around £50,000!:eek:
Always good to hear top end gear even if you can't afford it as it gives you a benchmark of sorts. However I think careful selection of moderately priced equipment, room integration, acoustic control, set up and some synergy can deliver a very compelling performance without spending stratospheric amounts of cash.
Indeed Gary as was the rest of the system I was listening too. Cables alone were around £50,000!:eek:
Reminds me of a dealer recommended system I saw a while back where the speaker cables cost more than the speakers. £6K cables with £5.5K speakers. When you could have £11K speakers and a very generous £500 for the cables. Not hard to guess which system would be better.
It really is a shame people get this sort of advice.
At least with speakers you can see and hear where your money has been spent. Cables.... not so easy?
At least with speakers you can see and hear where your money has been spent. Cables.... not so easy?
I don't regret any of the ton of money I've spent on hi-fi over the decades except the money I spent on cables.
People got to find their own way - but when someone asks me about cables I just say spend enough to get something that's properly made and leave it there and forget about cables for the rest of your life.
Might be cost a few hundred but that's it. Regardless of the cost or capability of the system.
Glenn Croft used some black and decker lawn mower cable once in a system he exhibited at a show.:)
Wakefield Turntables
20-07-2024, 19:59
Glenn Croft used some black and decker lawn mower cable once in a system he exhibited at a show.:)
So did Peter Walker except he went a bit posh and did Flymo!
So did Peter Walker except he went a bit posh and did Flymo!
I wonder if the differences can be heard between lawn mower cables?;):)
I wonder if the differences can be heard between lawn mower cables?;):)
Flymo has more air and space. Elevates the music.
Flymo has more air and space. Elevates the music.
very good!:lol:
Was it Glen Croft who, when he was asked by a customer what cable to use, answered, 'One that's long enough to reach.'
Maybe that was Walker.
Was it Glen Croft who, when he was asked by a customer what cable to use, answered, 'One that's long enough to reach.'
Maybe that was Walker.
It was definitely Peter Walker in reply to a question about what were the requirements of a good speaker cable. His reply was that all that was required of a speaker cable was:
(1) it should be long enough to reach between speaker and amplifier, and
(2) the colour of the cable insulation should match that of the carpet over which it runs.
Regarding lawnmower cable, it is definitely directional. It is what causes the stripes to occur when you mow the lawn. ;)
Pigmy Pony
20-07-2024, 20:46
Yes the room dwarfs even the 150s. They are not particularly tall speakers but massive bulk. The front baffles are about an inch thick! Effortless bass and room filling dynamics.
Unlike with your mate's set up, 'Chasing the Dragon' used their SCM150s on tall frame stands which must have been at least 600mm. They sounded fantastic to my ears, and filled the (very) large room visually and aurally. Shame it was all classical music, I had no point of reference.
https://hifipig.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/IMG_6452-1.jpg
It is not difficult to spend £50K on audio cables. I make up all of mine and have spent around five times that amount on them. Here's why:
First I have to prepare mind and body for the task through meditation and fasting. Next all the components, cable, connectors, solder and necessary tools have to be purged of any negative energy they might have acquired.
The actual assembly must be carried out under the light of a full moon, and only when there is an 'r' in the month.
Finally they are sent off by personal courier to the Dalai Lama for his blessing and to 'burnt in' using his personal stereo system.
As you can appreciate, all this time and effort is very expensive, but more than worthwhile. :lol:
Dalai Lama gives me mates' rates.
Lawrence001
20-07-2024, 21:46
Having seen him on telly kissing those boys I think I know what you're talking about.
Reckon lawnmower cable wouldn’t sound as good as the cables used in Jimbo’s mate’s system?
Maybe a reason he spent the money, just saying’
that said,
be fun to compare!
It's Man's inalienable right to waste/spend as much money as he likes on bits of wire.
Reckon lawnmower cable wouldn’t sound as good as the cables used in Jimbo’s mate’s system?
Maybe a reason he spent the money, just saying’
that said,
be fun to compare!
I think he's a dealer so he probably didn't spend the money, at least not personally.
£24K on speakers and amps and £60K on cables for them, regardless if you think cables matter or not, that just doesn't compute - for me anyway.
I think he's a dealer so he probably didn't spend the money, at least not personally.
£24K on speakers and amps and £60K on cables for them, regardless if you think cables matter or not, that just doesn't compute - for me anyway.
I agree! More than that, I cannot see how you can sensibly spend £60K on cables anyway: hence my sarcastic post earlier.
I think he's a dealer so he probably didn't spend the money, at least not personally.
£24K on speakers and amps and £60K on cables for them, regardless if you think cables matter or not, that just doesn't compute - for me anyway.
I personally have only ever spent modest sums on cables but I do think they make a difference. Not so sure about ultra expensive cables as the law of diminishing returns sets in pretty quick. I would always rather spend my money on speakers. I have auditioned some exotic cables at exotic prices and quite often I have preferred the cheaper end in my system.
I personally have only ever spent modest sums on cables but I do think they make a difference. Not so sure about ultra expensive cables as the law of diminishing returns sets in pretty quick. I would always rather spend my money on speakers. I have auditioned some exotic cables at exotic prices and quite often I have preferred the cheaper end in my system.
I think they can make a difference if their LCR is extreme in some way (you can buy cables with those little boxes attached that contain zobel networks that probably do something) or if there is an impedance matching issue between components in the system.
But in my system/room I cannot perceive any difference between several hundred quid's worth of thick as hosepipe, super pure copper, six separate conductors, with top dollar connectors speaker cable, and some generic 79 strand with the crappiest, worst looking plugs you ever saw, that I bought used for a tenner.
I just use the expensive one as it looks the part. And yes, before anyone asks, my system is 'very revealing', probably one of the most revealing systems I ever heard. Ofc it could just be my hearing is shot...
I have borrowed all sorts of cables from different folk to try in my system over the years and I believe I can hear the differences between copper and silver/plated and the differences between plug types but the margins are fine compared to different amps and speakers.
I dont believe plug types make any difference: regardless of whether they are bunch pin; O-Z, or a single cylindrical tube with a side pressure spring wire. They either make a low resistance connection, or they don't.
I dont believe plug types make any difference: regardless of whether they are bunch pin; O-Z, or a single cylindrical tube with a side pressure spring wire. They either make a low resistance connection, or they don't.
If they don't make a low resistance connection then they may make a difference though. Plus other factors like the gauge of the cable and how long the run is. Thin cable over a long run you are going to get losses that might be audible at the frequency extremes. But that will be a frequency response error and nothing to do with inherent 'quality' of the transmitted signal.
There's always some edge cases if you look for them.
Have to say even if I accepted there were benefits to spending a lot on cables, sixty grand surely goes way, way past the end point of diminishing returns. I mean it's a wire, how good can it possibly get?
But then the big mark up on cables makes them the sweetest plum of any hi-fi product sale, so there's a conflict of interest there.
Pigmy Pony
21-07-2024, 11:27
It would be a shame to "invest" £60k on speaker cable, only to have all your efforts ruined by allowing them to come into contact with your £5 per metre contract cord carpet and all the static it generates. So you're gonna need some of these:
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiksLKkgbiHAxVPlVAGHaFVAN8YABAWGgJkZw&co=1&ase=2&gclid=CjwKCAjw4_K0BhBsEiwAfVVZ_6-DggV6I-PYUxEzEilHIswzg2AWBQhUF7Duv7tUNu8s97LXSKjjGxoCeNAQ AvD_BwE&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESVeD2IAG2a640sTwvFwpKT0jY0FsS3BAh61bf0JRGyR pkcGVGmiCKbPTIsYl67MITS6YYxj14jTsnMcXhKq9UDw2MO7BK 5ykZ72VOGSKVBDSTtVwrVGI&sig=AOD64_0H-pPDhB5FMgM2Celk7TCJNh8fZw&ctype=5&q=&nis=4&ved=2ahUKEwjO_q2kgbiHAxW4RkEAHcuND5MQ9aACKAB6BAgDE DE&adurl= (https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiksLKkgbiHAxVPlVAGHaFVAN8YABAWGgJkZw&co=1&ase=2&gclid=CjwKCAjw4_K0BhBsEiwAfVVZ_6-DggV6I-
PYUxEzEilHIswzg2AWBQhUF7Duv7tUNu8s97LXSKjjGxoCeNAQ AvD_BwE&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESVeD2IAG2a640sTwvFwpKT0jY0FsS3BAh61bf0JRGyR pkcGVGmiCKbPTIsYl67MITS6YYxj14jTsnMcXhKq9UDw2MO7BK 5ykZ72VOGSKVBDSTtVwrVGI&sig=AOD64_0H-pPDhB5FMgM2Celk7TCJNh8fZw&ctype=5&q=&nis=4&ved=2ahUKEwjO_q2kgbiHAxW4RkEAHcuND5MQ9aACKAB6BAgDE DE&adurl=)
Ok they may seem a bit pricey, especially as £798 only gets you one, and you'll probably need a few. But then they are made of Krion and Panzerholz wood. And held together with Japanese thermoplastic screws. None of your Chinese crap here.
If they don't make a low resistance connection then they may make a difference though. Plus other factors like the gauge of the cable and how long the run is. Thin cable over a long run you are going to get losses that might be audible at the frequency extremes. But that will be a frequency response error and nothing to do with inherent 'quality' of the transmitted signal.
There's always some edge cases if you look for them.
Have to say even if I accepted there were benefits to spending a lot on cables, sixty grand surely goes way, way past the end point of diminishing returns. I mean it's a wire, how good can it possibly get?
But then the big mark up on cables makes them the sweetest plum of any hi-fi product sale, so there's a conflict of interest there.
I was talking about the plugs, not the cable. Obviously 'bell wire' will have a higher resistance per unit length than, say, a cable of 20A rating (such as QED79). When I replaced the 5A lighting flex feeding my speakers with QED79, the resistance was roughly halved, and for a given perceived volume level, the volume control on my preamp did not have to be turned as far.
I was talking about the plugs, not the cable. Obviously 'bell wire' will have a higher resistance per unit length than, say, a cable of 20A rating (such as QED79). When I replaced the 5A lighting flex feeding my speakers with QED79, the resistance was roughly halved, and for a given perceived volume level, the volume control on my preamp did not have to be turned as far.
I know, I was just mentioning cable gauge and length as potential factors in 'cable differences'.
Poorly soldered plugs can increase resistance, noise and distortion - but like you I am sceptical that the material they are made from makes any change to the signal, let alone one large enough to be audible.
Been messing with the system over the last few days getting my next video in production. Unplugged a lot of gear and then had to reinstall everything. What a difference breaking and renewing connections makes. I know this is not a new phenomenon and is the result of removing oxidation etc but this time the uplift in SQ has been very noticeable.
I have had increases in transparency, top end detail and generally an overall more immediate sound in the room. Not quite like cleaning a murky window but someway
towards that sort of effect. It has reminded me I could do with deoxidising all my connections and plugs. Valve pins could also do with a clean so maybe if I do the whole lot together and polish my fuses I may get an even bigger up lift? We will see?
Wakefield Turntables
08-08-2024, 19:25
Make sure you put the fuse in the right direction....... sorry.......... I'll get my coat :door:
Make sure you put the fuse in the right direction....... sorry.......... I'll get my coat :door:
:lol:
Been messing with the system over the last few days getting my next video in production. Unplugged a lot of gear and then had to reinstall everything. What a difference breaking and renewing connections makes. I know this is not a new phenomenon and is the result of removing oxidation etc but this time the uplift in SQ has been very noticeable.
I have had increases in transparency, top end detail and generally an overall more immediate sound in the room. Not quite like cleaning a murky window but someway
towards that sort of effect. It has reminded me I could do with deoxidising all my connections and plugs. Valve pins could also do with a clean so maybe if I do the whole lot together and polish my fuses I may get an even bigger up lift? We will see?
I did all my fuses some years ago and leaving out listener expectation it did "seem" to make a difference. Perhaps I ought to do them again.
brian2957
09-08-2024, 10:23
Make sure you put the fuse in the right direction....... sorry.......... I'll get my coat :door:
Are you going to clean the fuses with yer coat then :lol:
Wakefield Turntables
09-08-2024, 11:17
Are you going to clean the fuses with yer coat then :lol:
Yeah it beat's using my Y-fronts, probably a cleaner soundstage..... :eek:
brian2957
09-08-2024, 17:27
Yeah it beat's using my Y-fronts, probably a cleaner soundstage..... :eek:
Too much information :D
Yeah it beat's using my Y-fronts, probably a cleaner soundstage..... :eek:
Don’t forget to take them off first. :rofl:
brian2957
10-08-2024, 09:19
Don’t forget to take them off first. :rofl:
:lol:
Brings a whole new meaning to “lifting a veil”.
Now if you are really bored and can't find anything to watch this afternoon.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WGGNIX6lrI
Wakefield Turntables
11-08-2024, 15:56
Great vid as ever, thanks Jim, it's a shame we can't have just a few seconds of how your systems sounds, I do think your allowed 5-10 seconds of audio before youtube start breathing down your neck.
Youtube does a copyright check as you are uploading so I am a bit nervous of breaching their rules?
It would be great to demonstrate sound but again not sure if my recording equipment (microphone) is up to anything much. You may have noticed quite a number of audio gear YouTubers don't play a single note on their videos for these reasons.
brian2957
11-08-2024, 16:58
Great video again mate. I've been fortunate enough to hear two thirds of that wonderful system using Croft amps rather than the Pioneer. Great old, but beautiful sounding system, and you're bang on with your description James :)
Great video again mate. I've been fortunate enough to hear two thirds of that wonderful system using Croft amps rather than the Pioneer. Great old, but beautiful sounding system, and you're bang on with your description James :)
Cheers Brian, the combination of the Pioneer and Lenco + m55e is excellent especially hooked up to the Spendors!:)
OK so here is a weird one. I have always known that cables don't like to be touching walls, floors or each other as you can get some negative effects. So tonight I decided to move my amplifiers further away from the wall and thus all of the cables were further away and I observed an improvement in space and soundstage in everything I listened too subsequently.
Without getting too boring or technical, electricity travelling through cable either power or signal does have weird properties and can be affected by their proximity to anything else! That's why some folk use cable risers.
I noticed a very significant audible difference moving them further away from the wall so I recommend trying it. It's a free upgrade and a bit weird but something is definitely happening!
Not sure I would want to go public and make a YouTube video for this one, just keep it for the open minded few on here!:lol:
I suppose resistance or capacitence or both could be increased by contact with the wall, but enough?
Have to say it is something I have noticed too and I do keep my cables off the wall but I suspect it is just superstition. Still, it costs nothing to do.
Enjoyable video as always James, enjoyed that one with a nice cuppa. :)
100% agree with moving cables away from the wall if you can, have heard it in my own system.
Biggest change I experienced was then I repositioned my Dac's external power supply and the small DC power cable was no longer brushing against the wall.
Like yourself, I would recommend sorting your cables out, making sure they dont overlap, dont touch the wall or have the connectors under any pressure.
It all makes a matters and makes a difference.
I have the power cables all down one side, well away from the signals. No wall-touching here!
https://i.ibb.co/Bj0NWfX/20240204-092742.jpg (https://ibb.co/CvR2Cwk)
So cables are not supposed to touch the walls or floor, or one another.
What if the cables run under the floor, or in your case, a stereo pair has a 'figure of eight' construction so are as close together as can be? :scratch:
I suppose resistance or capacitence or both could be increased by contact with the wall, but enough?
Have to say it is something I have noticed too and I do keep my cables off the wall but I suspect it is just superstition. Still, it costs nothing to do.
I have electrics running in the wall to the power socket so maybe there is some interaction going on?
Enjoyable video as always James, enjoyed that one with a nice cuppa. :)
100% agree with moving cables away from the wall if you can, have heard it in my own system.
Biggest change I experienced was then I repositioned my Dac's external power supply and the small DC power cable was no longer brushing against the wall.
Like yourself, I would recommend sorting your cables out, making sure they dont overlap, dont touch the wall or have the connectors under any pressure.
It all makes a matters and makes a difference.
I had forgotten all about this as I had a big issue sometime back when my phono cables were not earthed and they emitted a loud hum when they were in contact with the wall. It was only by chance last night I noticed moving all my cables away from the wall even further that I got a noticeable difference to the sound.
So cables are not supposed to touch the walls or floor, or one another.
What if the cables run under the floor, or in your case, a stereo pair has a 'figure of eight' construction so are as close together as can be? :scratch:
Apparently there are electrons and ions moving not just within your cables (Power and Signal ) but also around the outside. So it stands to reason that if there is some interaction with these small delicate electrical properties something will be affected?
I have electrics running in the wall to the power socket so maybe there is some interaction going on?
It's not impossible if the cable in the wall is very close to the surface.
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2024, 07:51
Though in most houses (not counting diy bodges) wiring to sockets come up vertically from the floor or sometimes from above. But I would say very rarely horizontally and never diagonally. It's an electrical safety thing, having a good idea where your hidden cables are.
Though in most houses (not counting diy bodges) wiring to sockets come up vertically from the floor or sometimes from above. But I would say very rarely horizontally and never diagonally. It's an electrical safety thing, having a good idea where your hidden cables are.
If it's coming down the wall from above - cables run through the roof space or space between the floors?
I don't know how common that is, maybe in an old house that pre-dates electricity? Like mine for example.
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2024, 09:15
Yes it could be doing those things, so I suppose they could in some places run close to hifi cables. It's one of those things where if you can hear a difference then it matters.
Enjoying a day off Mart? One of the few good things about being a grown up is you don't need a note from your mum :)
Apparently there are electrons and ions moving not just within your cables (Power and Signal ) but also around the outside. So it stands to reason that if there is some interaction with these small delicate electrical properties something will be affected?
There are no electrons or ions moving around outside. If there were they would be moving in the air outside the cable.
What might exist outside are alternating electric and magnetic fields, and with a cable with poor screening these external fields will interact with the internal fields (due to the audio signal) and affect the signal. But to do so the cable has to have poor screening efficiency (as expressed by the surface transfer impedance Zt) and the interfering fields have to be very high.
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2024, 09:41
There are no electrons or ions moving around outside. If there were they would be moving in the air outside the cable.
What might exist outside are alternating electric and magnetic fields, and with a cable with poor screening these external fields will interact with the internal fields (due to the audio signal) and affect the signal. But to do so the cable has to have poor screening efficiency (as expressed by the surface transfer impedance Zt) and the interfering fields have to be very high.
At the risk of triggering a cable discussion :eek: is there a case then for spending good money on better interconnects?
AJSki2fly
07-10-2024, 10:03
At the risk of triggering a cable discussion :eek: is there a case then for spending good money on better interconnects?
I have been down and back out of this proverbial 'Rabbit Hole" many times, and IMHO there is a case for buying decent interconnects but up to a point in terms of costs. As mentioned above shielding from external influences is important and can make a significant difference. But the difficult question is whether different materials make a difference to the SQ, i.e copper, silver, platinum and how it is made and treated. I am not going to get into those arguments but will say that I have found Belden 8402 cable (used in studios for microphone cable) to be extremely good, I believe it has a low resistance and good shielding and can carry low voltage signals. I use it on a 5m run to my power amp that has to be sited away from the main system due to space issues. These are easily a good if not better than some previously used1m interconnects that cost 10 times as much.
If you interested then see https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122439809318?_skw=Belden+interconnect&itmmeta=01J9K6JZ4DWXZ24QAZ4S567A7M&hash=item1c81fb3926%3Ag%3Ap6AAAOSwuLZY66BW&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmViad Y0t30F81TxXfl6XINfCwl1l03hduKMp4RC2VUPyp2hq5JtK9em 5K3PsdQ01KnqRYuCZBGNLVSoOm9mAlF2h2At66vZbo4INjJkcR t5SXvnqIQumDvXEVNhoLs5blVxvdjF7djDAG0LyLhgSaO%2FDB 056wEnqq6cVL9btsZtR1%2FI0YYgBe4X4DgKJk7dIQxjtSsxxV SHuQgDGv7QIRwNiw8FmKTZBMSOoQDUX2NkaYOH%2F2MS0BaRKj yV7Es2RzvIXshVFsV06Ncu%2FF%2FAUawbCrp9LLODUfGflNKa lvQKg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6zyy-bMZA&var=422904152920 swtichcraft RCAs are good but there are others as well.
At the risk of triggering a cable discussion :eek: is there a case then for spending good money on better interconnects?
In a word, yes. Avoid the freebie cables with moulded on plugs that often come with audio equipment and buy cables that have braided rather than a lapped screen.
But don't go over the top with cost, and don't be fooled by claims that one type of RCA connector is better than another - they are all lousy, but unfortunately we are stuck with them.
If you are handy with a soldering iron, then make your own using a sensible professional cable such as the Belden cable Adrian uses.
Enjoying a day off Mart? One of the few good things about being a grown up is you don't need a note from your mum :)
Yes, was in Liverpool all weekend so need a day to recover.
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2024, 12:16
Yeah that makes sense. But what do people who live there do to recover? Maybe they're used to it.
There are no electrons or ions moving around outside. If there were they would be moving in the air outside the cable.
What might exist outside are alternating electric and magnetic fields, and with a cable with poor screening these external fields will interact with the internal fields (due to the audio signal) and affect the signal. But to do so the cable has to have poor screening efficiency (as expressed by the surface transfer impedance Zt) and the interfering fields have to be very high.
Ah that's what they are but I presume caused by the electrical activity going on in the cable?
Yeah that makes sense. But what do people who live there do to recover? Maybe they're used to it.
They're in training since birth. So was I but mine ended at 18 whereas theirs has continued.
Went out drinking with one of my brother's father-in-law. He's 75. When I was on my fourth pint he was on his twelfth. Just swilling it back - 'Ale doesn't affect me at all.'
By ten o'clock I was going home to bed, he was just moving on to the next pub of the night.
Ah that's what they are but I presume caused by the electrical activity going on in the cable?
Yes, the interference can only be caused by near adjacent cables, but to have an effect the screening of the audio cable would have to be poor. Also since in a mains cable the L and N wires are adjacent and run very close together within the outer sheath, separated by their own insulation, the fields they generate are almost mutually cancelling.
Unless there is a fault with the mains wiring feeding the wall sockets (possibly due to some sloppy DIY work), again the field generated by the cables will be virtually non-existent. In the UK we still use the "ring" circuits for the mains wiring. In Europe and elsewhere, "radial" circuits, or "tree and branch" circuits are used, and these force the return current to travel back down the same piece of cable, hence the fields will be self-cancelling. In the UK's ring system, the wires are laid out in a circle with both the Live and Neutral wires starting and finishing at the consumer unit. This means that the current used from a socket outlet has two possible ways to flow to and from the consumer unit. Currents many not flow equally both ways around the ring, so the magnetic fields produced may not cancel, and the cables then radiate these higher magnetic fields into the room and the adjacent rooms.
At every socket on the ring two cables are joined. A small difference in the impedance back each way to the consumer unit around the loop will cause a problem almost as bad as a poor connection. In the worse case, which is surprisingly common, a Line or Neutral actually gets disconnected (often as a result of incompetant DIY) and this effectively results in a single turn transformer loop. When a significant load is applied, the magnetic field in the rooms inside the ring can rise to many microTesla. To put this into context in the UK the average for the mains cable feeder into the house is 0.04 microTesla. For detached houses set back from the road it is about 0.02uT. Flats and terraced houses right up to the pavement have higher fields, however if they are about 0.1uT then an external supply fault should be suspected.
Consider a ring running around a 3 x 3 metre room supporting a total load of 2A (i.e. 450W). The radiated magnetic field 60cm into the room will be 0.01uT, falling to 0.001uT one metre in. Whereas if both L and N wires were to become disconnected (worse case scenario) the respective magnetic fields would be 0.6uT and 1.5uT.
Another source of unwanted magnetic fields (at frequencies higher than 50Hz) are those generated by 'wall warts'. Commonly used to charge mobile phones (but sometimes audio items), these device can emit high fields nearby, and also inject noise back into the mains system. If not in use they should unplugged, or at least switched off at the socket.
Yes, the interference can only be caused by near adjacent cables, but to have an effect the screening of the audio cable would have to be poor. Also since in a mains cable the L and N wires are adjacent and run very close together within the outer sheath, separated by their own insulation, the fields they generate are almost mutually cancelling.
Unless there is a fault with the mains wiring feeding the wall sockets (possibly due to some sloppy DIY work), again the field generated by the cables will be virtually non-existent. In the UK we still use the "ring" circuits for the mains wiring. In Europe and elsewhere, "radial" circuits, or "tree and branch" circuits are used, and these force the return current to travel back down the same piece of cable, hence the fields will be self-cancelling. In the UK's ring system, the wires are laid out in a circle with both the Live and Neutral wires starting and finishing at the consumer unit. This means that the current used from a socket outlet has two possible ways to flow to and from the consumer unit. Currents many not flow equally both ways around the ring, so the magnetic fields produced may not cancel, and the cables then radiate these higher magnetic fields into the room and the adjacent rooms.
At every socket on the ring two cables are joined. A small difference in the impedance back each way to the consumer unit around the loop will cause a problem almost as bad as a poor connection. In the worse case, which is surprisingly common, a Line or Neutral actually gets disconnected (often as a result of incompetant DIY) and this effectively results in a single turn transformer loop. When a significant load is applied, the magnetic field in the rooms inside the ring can rise to many microTesla. To put this into context in the UK the average for the mains cable feeder into the house is 0.04 microTesla. For detached houses set back from the road it is about 0.02uT. Flats and terraced houses right up to the pavement have higher fields, however if they are about 0.1uT then an external supply fault should be suspected.
Consider a ring running around a 3 x 3 metre room supporting a total load of 2A (i.e. 450W). The radiated magnetic field 60cm into the room will be 0.01uT, falling to 0.001uT one metre in. Whereas if both L and N wires were to become disconnected (worse case scenario) the respective magnetic fields would be 0.6uT and 1.5uT.
Another source of unwanted magnetic fields (at frequencies higher than 50Hz) are those generated by 'wall warts'. Commonly used to charge mobile phones (but sometimes audio items), these device can emit high fields nearby, and also inject noise back into the mains system. If not in use they should unplugged, or at least switched off at the socket.
Great advice and knowledge there Barry. I had an earth wire drop out of a socket recently which was picked up on an electrical test. I have always understood SMPS generated lots of unwanted magnetic fields which can be injected back into the system and not great for powering small DACs or any other audio device really unless they are specially designed so as not to interfere with the electronics they are strapped too?
QUOTE=Macca;1380646]I have the power cables all down one side, well away from the signals. No wall-touching here!
https://i.ibb.co/Bj0NWfX/20240204-092742.jpg (https://ibb.co/CvR2Cwk)[/QUOTE]
Martin,
Is your wall very small, or just far away
(Measurement Protocol has to be adhered to...)
Well after my cable deliberations I have stumbled across another strange phenomena tonight with regards plug sockets.
I usually plug my Linear Power supply into the left hand side of a double socket I have spare for use with my system. The LPS has two 5v outputs which feed power separately to a DAC and a DDC which in turn is connected to my MacBook laptop which runs on battery. Audirvana shuts down all the noise in the laptop and re routes the digital info and sprinkles magic on it on the way out to the DDC.
Ok enough of that and now to the crux of the matter. Tonight having plugged the LPS into the right hand side of the socket rather than the left I have had an astonishing uplift in both dynamics and a far more holographic soundstage.
WHY?
Firebottle
29-11-2024, 07:43
Everything matters, but who knows?
Perhaps the swiping of the contacts changing the conductivity, but who knows?
Everything matters, but who knows?
Perhaps the swiping of the contacts changing the conductivity, but who knows?
I disconnect the plug every time I use the LPS so contacts are wiped regularly. I have two double sockets side by side and it must be the configuration of the wiring or something :scratch:
I had not been drinking!:lol:
Get your lady to pick one at random, without you looking, and see if you can identify the good one.
9/10 right and you're onto something.
I've seen this before about one half of a double socket being better than the other. Needless to say I tried it at mine but didn't notice anything.
Get your lady to pick one at random, without you looking, and see if you can identify the good one.
9/10 right and you're onto something.
I've seen this before about one half of a double socket being better than the other. Needless to say I tried it at mine but didn't notice anything.
Maybe some electronics are more sensitive than others and as digital gear can be affected by RFI/EMI there could be some differences in the way the socket is wired and earthed to each plug output?
Noticed on another forum a member found differences when his source was plugged into one side and the amp plugged into the other. He switched them round and found a difference. He noticed a hardness to the sound when swapped round.
as digital gear can be affected by RFI/EMI .
Poorly designed or built equipment can be, but that's usually quite expensive!
kirstysdad
29-11-2024, 18:51
I am soooo late to this party!
Have you heard of cognitive bias? If you WANT to hear a difference you will. If you DON'T, you won't!
Depnds on what you spend, bigger the spend, bigger the perceived bias. Think Alan Partridge with his Lexus...
Try switching it off for 4 days and listening again once it has warmed up. Big hugs all round. Yes, I have been drinking. :cool:
I am soooo late to this party!
Have you heard of cognitive bias? If you WANT to hear a difference you will. If you DON'T, you won't!
Depnds on what you spend, bigger the spend, bigger the perceived bias. Think Alan Partridge with his Lexus...
Try switching it off for 4 days and listening again once it has warmed up. Big hugs all round. Yes, I have been drinking. :cool:
Next time I switch the system on I am going to have a drink and see if it sounds any different. I did try listening to the system unplugged but I couldn't hear anything:scratch::)
Wakefield Turntables
30-11-2024, 13:05
We need another one of your excellent YouTube vids :)
We need another one of your excellent YouTube vids :)
Just been so busy recently not had time but hope to bang one out before Christmas.
Wakefield Turntables
30-11-2024, 17:04
Just been so busy recently not had time but hope to bang one out before Christmas.
You do mean a video don't you Jim? (Sorry!!!)..... :eek:
You do mean a video don't you Jim? (Sorry!!!)..... :eek:
:uhho::lol:
Continuing my experiences with plugs and sockets etc I decided to unplug everything from my preamp and clean connections. So listening tonight I find it has improved the sound a fair bit especially in soundstage and imaging. Everything is just a tad better delineated. Vocals are also a bit more 3d and have exceptional clarity.
Next up valve pin cleaning! 5 years since I did them last !
Good result James, nice one.
Its always worth doing those boring Housekeeping jobs on the system I've found, I think of it as "essential maintenance".
From my own experience, I've found a dab of Deoxit Gold on the tip of each pin, then a couple of dips into a pad of "magic eraser" brings valve pins up a treat.
Something like this, not too dear from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smiths-Magic-Cleaning-Eraser-Sponge/dp/B07G4HPYY6/ref=asc_df_B07G4HPYY6?mcid=5e09b43df143301682ecce3 77bb78624&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697257554350&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10391199857117153399&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007341&hvtargid=pla-649790466437&gad_source=1&th=1
Deoxit's under a tenner for a wee tube, well worth it for this kind of thing. :thumbsup:
Good result James, nice one.
Its always worth doing those boring Housekeeping jobs on the system I've found, I think of it as "essential maintenance".
From my own experience, I've found a dab of Deoxit Gold on the tip of each pin, then a couple of dips into a pad of "magic eraser" brings valve pins up a treat.
Something like this, not too dear from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smiths-Magic-Cleaning-Eraser-Sponge/dp/B07G4HPYY6/ref=asc_df_B07G4HPYY6?mcid=5e09b43df143301682ecce3 77bb78624&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697257554350&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10391199857117153399&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007341&hvtargid=pla-649790466437&gad_source=1&th=1
Deoxit's under a tenner for a wee tube, well worth it for this kind of thing. :thumbsup:
Will order some tomorrow, may use it on all plug pins and interconnect pins whilst I am at it.
Sounds like a Plan. :)
Interested to know how it goes.
Will order some tomorrow, may use it on all plug pins and interconnect pins whilst I am at it.
Hey James,
anythihng happening with the system?
Wakefield Turntables
25-03-2025, 13:38
Jim’s not posting anymore because he kept getting locked out of his account.
Jim’s not posting anymore because he kept getting locked out of his account.
What error messages is he receiving? Has he changed his email account and hence address?
Wakefield Turntables
25-03-2025, 16:22
No idea Barry I think he just god fed up with problems logging in.
No idea Barry I think he just god fed up with problems logging in.
As far as I can tell Jimbo's account is still active. His last activity on the Forum was in 6 January this year, at 16:03.
If he is really having trouble logging in, then we can do something about it, but a guess is an insufficient reason to start.
Is there anyone here who can get in touch with Jim by email or by phone to find out what is happening at Jim's end?
I have been invited to the launch of the Innuos Nazare at the weekend so could be quite special. I have heard the Innuos Zenith NG recently which bought about a huge level of transparency, ultra low noise floor and a remarkable amount of clarity and resolution. So I have high expectations for the Nazare!
https://innuos.com/nazareworldtour/
Wakefield Turntables
03-11-2025, 17:50
oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh get you, budding audiophile journalist!!!!!!!!!! Attending all this swanky events!!!!!
oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh get you, budding audiophile journalist!!!!!!!!!! Attending all this swanky events!!!!!
LOL :lol:
Pigmy Pony
03-11-2025, 18:18
oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh get you, budding audiophile journalist!!!!!!!!!! Attending all this swanky events!!!!!
We've needed a replacement Peter Belt for some years now :)
We've needed a replacement Peter Belt for some years now :)
Was he the one who suggested using lead as a conductor for audio cables, aligning all the fixing screws of electrical wall sockets, and folding up a corner of the curtains in your listening room and securing the fold with one of his special 'de-ionised' safety pins? :eek:
oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh get you, budding audiophile journalist!!!!!!!!!! Attending all this swanky events!!!!!
:lol:
Was he the one who suggested using lead as a conductor for audio cables, aligning all the fixing screws of electrical wall sockets, and folding up a corner of the curtains in your listening room and securing the fold with one of his special 'de-ionised' safety pins? :eek:
Yes.
And folding a piece of A4 and placing it under one leg of the seat you were sitting on:lol:
I find my listening experience is dramatically enhanced if I roll up my left trouser leg! :lol:
Pigmy Pony
05-12-2025, 22:59
I find my listening experience is dramatically enhanced if I roll up my left trouser leg! :lol:
I tried that when a Coldplay song came on the radio. It didn't help.
So the work on my second system is now complete but resulted in me scraping most of my old system apart from my Spendor SP2 speakers.
Final result is Wiim Pro Plus used as a streamer into Rega Elex MK 4 using the Rega internal DAC and turntable is now the Project Debut Pro with Pick it Pro cartridge into Spendor SP2 speakers which have now had new tweeters fitted.
How does it sound. Well I wish I had bought this system years ago. It is superb. Streaming Qobuz via the Wiim into the Rega Dac is very very good indeed but the Project Debut Pro via the Rega Elex Mk4 sounds equally as good. It is very hard to choose between them.
I am more than pleased with how things have turned out and big thanks to Dave for recommending the Rega amp which is at the heart of the system. It is so good I am actually thinking of one of the bigger Rega amps for my main system.
Budget for main system is considerably more so I am looking for a powerful Integrated amp initially and have a few on my list to try.
Chord Ultima Integrated
Quad Platina Integrated
Rega Aethos
Hegel H400
My attention will then turn to upgrading DAC and speakers possibly although both will be tricky as they are both extremely good but I have a few ideas. My turntable will not be upgraded apart from a new cartridge maybe a 2M Black LVB or Hana ML.
First of the Big amps is going to be evaluated in my system next week!
Crikey, that Chord amp is £8.5K!
Streaming Qobuz via the Wiim into the Rega Dac is very very good indeed
As a fellow WiiM owner who also streams Qobuz into a Rega Elex MK4, I have to wholeheartedly agree, it sounds extremely good indeed. I’m very pleased too.
As a fellow WiiM owner who also streams Qobuz into a Rega Elex MK4, I have to wholeheartedly agree, it sounds extremely good indeed. I’m very pleased too.
Yup
Big spend, important to get it right.
Great that James is hearing different options.
As a fellow WiiM owner who also streams Qobuz into a Rega Elex MK4, I have to wholeheartedly agree, it sounds extremely good indeed. I’m very pleased too.
Yes great combination.:)
Crikey, that Chord amp is £8.5K!
Gotta aim high Martin if I want to get a noticeable improvement in my system.
Gotta aim high Martin if I want to get a noticeable improvement in my system.
Lots of options with that kind of budget. Yamaha A-S3200? Not that I would, but it's better looking than those on your list IMO.
Rotel Michi X5 is another alternative.
Hegel I just don't get. Crazy expensive even though made in China, so-so spec, boring to look at.
Pigmy Pony
03-05-2026, 08:51
Bit cheaper than the Chord. Also available in black.
https://www.hifinews.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/NuVista-600.2-Silver-Front-cutout_cmyk_sml.jpg
Bit cheaper than the Chord. Also available in black.
https://www.hifinews.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/NuVista-600.2-Silver-Front-cutout_cmyk_sml.jpg
Is that on your wish list Steve?
Pigmy Pony
03-05-2026, 10:52
Oh yes :) Been a MF fanboy since my Elektra E100 30 years ago. Though if I was spending that kind of money I'd be daft not to look at all options, as you are doing.
Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2026, 15:34
Jim,
Nice to see you posting again, sincerely good luck with upgrading your system.
Oh yes :) Been a MF fanboy since my Elektra E100 30 years ago. Though if I was spending that kind of money I'd be daft not to look at all options, as you are doing.
I will certainly tread carefully as it will may well be an expensive decision.:eek:
Jim,
Nice to see you posting again, sincerely good luck with upgrading your system.
cheers Andy, I do have a lot of stuff going on again so thought might be good to post up a bit of stuff.
Best of luck with the search.
Personally, I would disregard the Chord on looks alone, but that is me, as I think it is very "Blingy".
It probably sounds very good, but I really don't .ike the styling Chord use. I think a lit of the money goes into the case, and I am happy with a good sounding, boring black box.
Based on the price of the Chord, I think I would look at the Rega Osiris as well.
The Rega lifetime warranty is an attractive selling point.
Best of luck with the search.
Personally, I would disregard the Chord on looks alone, but that is me, as I think it is very "Blingy".
It probably sounds very good, but I really don't .ike the styling Chord use. I think a lit of the money goes into the case, and I am happy with a good sounding, boring black box.
Based on the price of the Chord, I think I would look at the Rega Osiris as well.
The Rega lifetime warranty is an attractive selling point.
The thing about those Chord products is that you don't really see their level of quality in photos. I was never keen until I saw them at a show, and then you can see they are immaculately constructed. They look expensive. And they are, but plenty of equally expensive kit that doesn't have that quality of finish.
Yes some money goes on that but it doesn't actually cost that much to make an outstanding 100wpc integrated amp so with an £8K price tag there's plenty to spare for the cosmetics
I am sure it is a quality product, and it gets good reviews, but it is still not my cup of tea.
It does not matter though, as it is not me that is potentially buying it.
I am sure it is a quality product, and it gets good reviews, but it is still not my cup of tea.
It does not matter though, as it is not me that is potentially buying it.
Cosmetically would not be my choice either but then I like 1980s Japanese styling so some way off for me.
Speaking of which at this price level Accuphase should be a consideration.
I think the styling and aesthetics of all Chord audio products is awful, regardless of series: Ultima, Motorola, or Etude. Looks have nothing to do with sound quality, obviously sound quality is the more important the two, but it's nice to have both.
Cosmetically would not be my choice either but then I like 1980s Japanese styling so some way off for me.
Speaking of which at this price level Accuphase should be a consideration.
Yes, I would go for either Accuphase or a Luxman amplifier.
Best of luck with the search.
Personally, I would disregard the Chord on looks alone, but that is me, as I think it is very "Blingy".
It probably sounds very good, but I really don't .ike the styling Chord use. I think a lit of the money goes into the case, and I am happy with a good sounding, boring black box.
Based on the price of the Chord, I think I would look at the Rega Osiris as well.
The Rega lifetime warranty is an attractive selling point.
I have heard the Rega Elex Mk4 ( I own one), Elicit and Aethos but not had the chance to hear the Osiris. I think the Aethos would actually suit but need to get one in my system to try.
I really like the styling of the Rega amps and the build quality is fantastic.
I think the styling and aesthetics of all Chord audio products is awful, regardless of series: Ultima, Motorola, or Etude. Looks have nothing to do with sound quality, obviously sound quality is the more important the two, but it's nice to have both.
I hate those DACs they do with the 'Captain Pike' lights on them. They look awful and are an ergonomic disaster. But their other kit I could live with the styling even if it wouldn't be my first choice. Like I said it does look better in the flesh than in photos.
I would also be tempted to listen to a Luxman L-507Z.
I would also be tempted to listen to a Luxman L-507Z.
I’m sure the Luxman would sound great and lots of features I like.
I’m sure the Luxman would sound great and lots of features I like.Those Lux integrated amps are nice. It is bloody well made stuff. Been happy with my M-800A and C-800F.
It's so well made that buying second hand to get further up the range is a very safe bet. Even if it is a model or two behind.
IMHO of course.
Those Lux integrated amps are nice. It is bloody well made stuff. Been happy with my M-800A and C-800F.
It's so well made that buying second hand to get further up the range is a very safe bet. Even if it is a model or two behind.
IMHO of course.
I will definitely try and get to hear one.
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