LENCO - GL75 Project

[brian2957]

Hah! Good Friday night stuff then . I'm sitting outside a pub waiting for the missus and friends to come out .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXVII - Buggering about with tonearms.

Tonight I decided I wanted to tie up a few loose end with the deck and more importantly get the tonearm properly set up in preperation for the new JICO neoSAS stylus for the M55E. I'd been running the '75 with a semi decoupled tonearm for the last six months to great effect but this flew against generally accepted wisdom with Lenco's. Usually tonearms is rigidily coupled to either the top plate or plinth if you can't fully decouple them. No for me I have to rigidily couple to the top plate (my least favourite option) but beggars can't be choosers. My plinth is too small to directly couple to the tonearm so it has to be the top plate. There is more method to my madness with this coupling because I've used EVA which should mitigate some vibration getting into the tonearm. My Alphason is made for Titanium so is pretty stiff but I wonder if my M55E would benefit from another layer of vibration protection with my Mpingo would spacer? In an ideal world you wouldn't have so many interfacing surfaces as this is bad for vibration supression/control but again beggards can't be choosers and I'll look into this when I get the new plinth. :eyebrows: I'm pleased to annouce that I've finally got the 2mm vinyl clearence that I wanted from the base of cartridge to vinyl's playing surface. The tonearm is now rigidily coupled to the top plate and is correctly set up with regards tonearm geometry, tracking force, etc etc so I can now relax when listening to vinyl in the knowledge I've done all I can with the tonearm. I also took this oppotunity to make sure that everything was as tight as possible when rebuilding the '75, nuts and wing nuts got the full mole-grip treatment. A few pictures.

Just before surgery. The '75 dismantle and my EVA template.

19032

The modified tope plate to accept the Alphason mounting column. I've spent hours filling in the top plate now I bloody drill into the things. :doh:

19033

A shoot from the underside of the top plinth with the mounting nuts to ensure maximum compression of the mounting column onto the top plate.

19034

My 2mm of surface clearence. I'm very proud of this. Yep I'm very sad. :D

19035

The beast fresh assembled with all the loose ends tied up and just waiting for the new stylus.

19036

Now I decided I wanted to re-assess my roadmap of development for the '75 tonight. I've always pondered if I should stuff foam bewteen the motor suspension springs and tonight was an ideal oppotunity. I decided not to bother because there is virtually no space and additionally how can I be sure the foam isn't going to impinge the function of the springs and make things worse. The springs do an excellent job of supressing vibration from the motor into
the top plate if the springs are properly aligned so I took the oppotunity to re-check them and listening to the motor tonight confirms that things are good and the motor is silent. So, stuffing foam bewteen the springs has been crossed off my list of potential tweaks. The roadmap for January is still the tonearm so I'm hoping to experiment with extra weight and vibration supression with the M55E cartridge. I have no idea what Feb holds but until then..... :wave:

[brian2957]

Right down my street Andy . I'm still getting sibilance from my GL75 / M55e and I've spent far too much time trying to get rid of it . I'm seriously thinking about fitting another arm ( recommendations please ) or putting it in the loft :rolleyes: I'm hoping to get some tips on setting the turntable up next week so I will wait until after that . Alternatively I will take it to Ali Tait and let him have a look at it as he has some decent gear to set it up .
Have you had time for a listen to yours yet mate ?

[Gazjam]

Looking great Andy.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Right down my street Andy . I'm still getting sibilance from my GL75 / M55e and I've spent far too much time trying to get rid of it . I'm seriously thinking about fitting another arm ( recommendations please ) or putting it in the loft :rolleyes: I'm hoping to get some tips on setting the turntable up next week so I will wait until after that . Alternatively I will take it to Ali Tait and let him have a look at it as he has some decent gear to set it up .
Have you had time for a listen to yours yet mate ?

I'm very sorry to hear about the sibilance issue Brian. It might not be the arm that's at fault. I would let Ali have a go at setting the turntable up and see if he can banish the problem once and for all. It'll certainly be cheaper than buying a new tonearm. Don't put the Lenco in the loft :no: !!!! You've come a long way its a shame to get pissed off with the deck and banish it to the outer reigons of your attic. With regards tonearm suggestions, you could put anything on the deck so long as it had a 211mm mounting distance. I have the Alphason, but some Rega & Linn arms also work well, you'd need to do some research first. I've just heard a couple of sides of vinyl and already I think I'm hearing a difference. I'll have a bit more time tonight to listen and write up some findings.



Looking great Andy.

Thanks mate. :)

[struth]

Right down my street Andy . I'm still getting sibilance from my GL75 / M55e and I've spent far too much time trying to get rid of it . I'm seriously thinking about fitting another arm ( recommendations please ) or putting it in the loft :rolleyes: I'm hoping to get some tips on setting the turntable up next week so I will wait until after that . Alternatively I will take it to Ali Tait and let him have a look at it as he has some decent gear to set it up .
Have you had time for a listen to yours yet mate ?

Dont lose the faith mate. It will be fixable without too much trouble im sure. Ali will fettle it for you. Hes a canny lad

[brian2957]

I'm very sorry to hear about the sibilance issue Brian. It might not be the arm that's at fault. I would let Ali have a go at setting the turntable up and see if he can banish the problem once and for all. It'll certainly be cheaper than buying a new tonearm. Don't put the Lenco in the loft :no: !!!! You've come a long way its a shame to get pissed off with the deck and banish it to the outer reigons of your attic. With regards tonearm suggestions, you could put anything on the deck so long as it had a 211mm mounting distance. I have the Alphason, but some Rega & Linn arms also work well, you'd need to do some research first. I've just heard a couple of sides of vinyl and already I think I'm hearing a difference. I'll have a bit more time tonight to listen and write up some findings.




Thanks mate. :)

Aye , I think a visit to Ali will be on the cards soon .

[brian2957]

Dont lose the faith mate. It will be fixable without too much trouble im sure. Ali will fettle it for you. Hes a canny lad

It's not in the loft yet mate :)

[Jimbo]

When you hear my wreck it will hopefully give you hope that all is not lost mate!

[brian2957]

I think a little tutorial may be in order James :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Brian, I'd do the job for you myself if you were closer.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonearm update...

I got asked to write some comments upon the tonearm update from last night. Well, the deck's the best I've heard it. It's very subtle and I think the best way to describe it is that the deck has more poise within the soundstage. The background is black. Surface noise is extremely low to non-existant and on old vinyl massively reduced. Sibilance is virtually non-existant but does occur from time to time. I think the two main variables are coupling rigidity and parallel vinyl clearence height. I've also been messing around with the volts going into the motor and I'm down to 200 and I seem to be getting more detail out of the vinyl. I previously liked 215-220 volts but the Lenco is now spinning with 200 volts going through the motor and sounding great. I've still not tried the Mpingo spacer, maybe that's something for this coming week. :)

[brian2957]

Brian, I'd do the job for you myself if you were closer.

I appreciate this Andy . My equipment for setting this cartridge up is very basic . Coupled with my lack of knowledge and patience , it's not a good mix :)

Just a quick question . Bearing in mind that this is brand new , does anyone know if cleaning the record will help with sibilance ?

[brian2957]

Tonearm update...

I got asked to write some comments upon the tonearm update from last night. Well, the deck's the best I've heard it. It's very subtle and I think the best way to describe it is that the deck has more poise within the soundstage. The background is black. Surface noise is extremely low to non-existant and on old vinyl massively reduced. Sibilance is virtually non-existant but does occur from time to time. I think the two main variables are coupling rigidity and parallel vinyl clearence height. I've also been messing around with the volts going into the motor and I'm down to 200 and I seem to be getting more detail out of the vinyl. I previously liked 215-220 volts but the Lenco is now spinning with 200 volts going through the motor and sounding great. I've still not tried the Mpingo spacer, maybe that's something for this coming week. :)

Are you still using the M55e Andy ? If so the Jico SAS should be a big jump again :)

[struth]

I appreciate this Andy . My equipment for setting this cartridge up is very basic . Coupled with my lack of knowledge and patience , it's not a good mix :)

Just a quick question . Bearing in mind that this is brand new , does anyone know if cleaning the record will help with sibilance ?

is this a new to you cart your using brian? Just wondering if it is a duff cart of stylus. other than set up, thats the next biggest chance.

[Gazjam]

Brian,

I have a lit stylus magnifying tool that can let you examine it for any problems.
Happy to let you have a go with it.

[brian2957]

Nope , it's a new Jico stylus gents :)

[CornishPasty]

Brian, are you using the cartridge in the heavy headshell?

[brian2957]

Hi Ralph , yes I've been using it with the heavy headshell .

[CornishPasty]

In that case I'm thinking that maybe you should go back to a standard headshell and hear how that sounds before going any further Brian. Is the M55 the only cartridge you have?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Brian, I think I'd take the advice of going back to the older headshell to see if things work out. Your issues with sibilance may not be a bad thing for the rest of us as it shows that the m55e might not like too much additional mass in the head shell. If the sibilance goes then it looks like extra mass is the problem.

[brian2957]

I also have an AT95e Ralph and I'm getting sibilance with that too .

[brian2957]

Brian, I think I'd take the advice of going back to the older headshell to see if things work out. Your issues with sibilance may not be a bad thing for the rest of us as it shows that the m55e might not like too much additional mass in the head shell. If the sibilance goes then it looks like extra mass is the problem.

Aye , I'll try and give that a go later today Andy .

[walpurgis]

What cables are you using from the deck to the amp Brian?

[Jimbo]

The M55e and At95 are not particularly prone to sibilance even when set up badly!:) Severe VTA may cause sibilance but if your tonearm is generally level then this should not be an issue.

So I think it must be something to do with capacitance between arm/ cartridge and headshell or phono cable from TT to amp. Have you tried other cables yet Brian? Can you try different phono stage ?

[brian2957]

What cables are you using from the deck to the amp Brian?

Hi Geoff it's Van Damme pro grade classic XKE silver plated copper cable .

[walpurgis]

Hi Geoff it's Van Damme pro grade classic XKE silver plated copper cable .

Try a pure copper conductor lead mate. No plating.

[brian2957]

The M55e and At95 are not particularly prone to sibilance even when set up badly!:) Severe VTA may cause sibilance but if your tonearm is generally level then this should not be an issue.

So I think it must be something to do with capacitance between arm/ cartridge and headshell or phono cable from TT to amp. Have you tried other cables yet Brian? Can you try different phono stage ?

Thanks the next moves James . I just wanted to eliminate the easy options first :)

[brian2957]

Try a pure copper conductor lead mate. No plating.

Geoff , that has crossed my mind and I think you may have a point . Thanks :)

[walpurgis]

Geoff , that has crossed my mind and I think you may have a point . Thanks :)

Can't hurt to give it a try Brian. I have heard a bright character imparted to the sound of cartridges when using interconnects with pure silver or silver plated conductors. That could be causing the sibilance or stridence you are hearing.

[struth]

If you can eliminate the phono stage by trying another, that will help too. Low headroom can give such an effect too

[brian2957]

Aye , that's a job for when I'm off next week mate . Thanks for the advice , I'll let you know how I get on :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well just a quick update. I've been emailed by the guys at JICO to inform me that my neoSAS M55E replacement stylus is being shipped tomorrow. So should be here in next 7-14 days. ;)

[brian2957]

If you can eliminate the phono stage by trying another, that will help too. Low headroom can give such an effect too

Yup , may have to do a little bit of box swapping Grant :)

[brian2957]

Well just a quick update. I've been emailed by the guys at JICO to inform me that my neoSAS M55E replacement stylus is being shipped tomorrow. So should be here in next 7-14 days. ;)

Nice one mate , you'll be looking forward to that :)

[Jimbo]

Well just a quick update. I've been emailed by the guys at JICO to inform me that my neoSAS M55E replacement stylus is being shipped tomorrow. So should be here in next 7-14 days. ;)

Andy have you seen the video Jico have on their website about Jico and the manufacture of their stylus? Interesting stuff and great craftsmanship.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Andy have you seen the video Jico have on their website about Jico and the manufacture of their stylus? Interesting stuff and great craftsmanship.

Yeah seen it thanks. It makes me think that $211 is probably a good price to pay for what I'm getting.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Leno Pt XXVIII - I'm getting board (sic) of this!!!!

So, the deck is going great guns and I'm very happy with the way everything has turned out. I'm thinking of the next stage of the development of the deck and I came across the APTITLIG bamboo chopping boards from IKEA (not IKEDA!!!!) after reading an article over on The Audio Beat website. I decided to order 3 of these boards for a grand total of less than £30 delivered. I've bought three just in case they actually work, they will be recycled as Xmas pressie if they don't! I have decided to be frugal this year with the hifi habit, I realise that sometimes you just have to spend the money but mostly with a little lateral thinking great amounts of money can be saved whilst still getting a step up the sonic ladder. This ethos is also quite fun in that is saves money and really makes you think WHY you've gone down a specific route with a tweak. The APTITLIG boards are made from Bamboo so 2 will be used as actual isolation boards whilst the third will be sacrificed to make coupling feet. It should pass a few weeks through Feburary. Meanwhile the rest of January is being spent getting used to the new tonearm configuartion. I really should have done the tonearm work weeks ago but it was Xmas and I needed a bloody rest! And there lies the roadmap of development for the next six-eight weeks. Then I think I need to start looking at my list of threads that I have saved from Lenco Heaven to see if there are any other areas to pimp the '75. One area that does have me excited is the Frenk (DC) motor, but that's probably going to be discussed in more detail in another few months! As always........:wave:

[brian2957]

Christmas presents :D I like your thinking Andy :)
Are you planning to out anything under them ? Bits of board cut up ?
I'm glad the GL75 in its present form is doing it for you mate , and I'm pretty sure the Jico SAS is going to provide you with another massive upgrade :)
I'll have a look at the Frenk motor properly when I get the chance Andy . For now ...off to ma cot :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Christmas presents :D I like your thinking Andy :)
Are you planning to out anything under them ? Bits of board cut up ?
I'm glad the GL75 in its present form is doing it for you mate , and I'm pretty sure the Jico SAS is going to provide you with another massive upgrade :)
I'll have a look at the Frenk motor properly when I get the chance Andy . For now ...off to ma cot :D

Yep I'm cutting one of the boards up for coupling duties. The deck is now going through slow logically thought out upgrades. 90% of the big stuff has been done and the final 10% is just tweaking and experimentation.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The new JICO stylus is on its way, it's residing in Osaka as we speak. Now which will delivered first, the chopping boards (in Leeds) from ikea that are going to form Feburary's experimentation or the stylus is Japan several thousand miles away :lol:.

[brian2957]

Mmm.. Ikea is usually pretty efficient in dealing with this kind of thing so my money's on the chopping boards . I've been working quite a bit lately but when I get the time a visit to my local humongous furniture store is on the cards :)

You've been quiet the last wee while Andy . Too busy listening to the music maybe :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Mmm.. Ikea is usually pretty efficient in dealing with this kind of thing so my money's on the chopping boards . I've been working quite a bit lately but when I get the time a visit to my local humongous furniture store is on the cards :)

You've been quiet the last wee while Andy . Too busy listening to the music maybe :D

I'm not a betting man but I think you could be correct! I'm actually listening to vinyl rather than building and tweaking the bloody '75 :ner:. It's all about fine tuning now and seeing how far I can push the deck with tweeks and well thought out upgrades. I might look into the Frenk DC motor in March but for Jan and Feb I have my hands full. I'll be posting some stuff just as soon as I get the new stuff. ;)

[brian2957]

I'll be keeping my eye on this thread as usual mate . Meanwhile , enjoy the music :)

[Jimbo]

Brian it Looks like you may well be hearing the Jico SAS before Andy .:D

[brian2957]

Yes , my money's on that too James . I'll give you some feedback on what to expect Andy :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Brian it Looks like you may well be hearing the Jico SAS before Andy .:D

Mumble grumble...... :(......:)

[helma]

Tonight I decided I wanted to tie up a few loose end with the deck and more importantly get the tonearm properly set up in preperation for the new JICO neoSAS stylus for the M55E. I'd been running the '75 with a semi decoupled tonearm for the last six months to great effect but this flew against generally accepted wisdom with Lenco's. Usually tonearms is rigidily coupled to either the top plate or plinth if you can't fully decouple them. No for me I have to rigidily couple to the top plate (my least favourite option) but beggars can't be choosers. My plinth is too small to directly couple to the tonearm so it has to be the top plate. There is more method to my madness with this coupling because I've used EVA which should mitigate some vibration getting into the tonearm. My Alphason is made for Titanium so is pretty stiff but I wonder if my M55E would benefit from another layer of vibration protection with my Mpingo would spacer? In an ideal world you wouldn't have so many interfacing surfaces as this is bad for vibration supression/control but again beggards can't be choosers and I'll look into this when I get the new plinth. :eyebrows: I'm pleased to annouce that I've finally got the 2mm vinyl clearence that I wanted from the base of cartridge to vinyl's playing surface. The tonearm is now rigidily coupled to the top plate and is correctly set up with regards tonearm geometry, tracking force, etc etc so I can now relax when listening to vinyl in the knowledge I've done all I can with the tonearm. I also took this oppotunity to make sure that everything was as tight as possible when rebuilding the '75, nuts and wing nuts got the full mole-grip treatment.

On my Lenco I have the arm mounted directly onto the top plate - can't say I've experienced anything not to like about the arrangement, and the deck is really responsive to arm changes. On my Denon DP-3000 I have the arm mounted on the plinth (directly coupled in both instances) and there's a tendency for all arms to sound the same - ok, based on only two different arms, but still. Whether that's a good or bad thing I don't know. I never was that impressed with the Denon DA-305 arm in the Lenco, but with the DP-3000 I thought it sounded very good. So I figured if the Denon sounds that great with the DA-305, the Fidelity-Research FR-54 should be awesome - to my disappointment it wasn't really much of an improvement on the DA-305. To contrast this, in the Lenco the FR-54 was miles better. It's worth noting DA-305 was the arm that was offered as a bundled together package with the motor unit & plinth, so it shouldn't be a surprise it all works well together (though my plinth is made of different material than the original Denon effort).

Decoupling the arm never really made sense to me intuitively, but I did try to isolate the Syntec S-220 I had on my Connoisseur BD-2 from the top plate, using thick rubber o-rings both sides and in that case it was an improvement on direct coupling. But the Syntec is an arm that sounds somewhat 'underdamped' like there's some resonance issues, so maybe it helped with that. I have some grandiose plans for that arm to upgrade the ball bearings for horizontal arm movement and change the arm tube into a 12" inch, I was thinking aluminum outer tube with a tightly fitting carbon fibre inner tube for damping. I need to first figure out the bearings, currently I can't adjust it for no play without introducing some stiction, not sure if that's just 60s manufacturing tolerances or wear, but either case doesn't make sense to invest time and money into fiddling with the arm tube & wiring until the bearings are top notch.

What does it all mean? Honestly I have no idea, other than obviously plinth material and basically everything down to the feet have an effect and for a hobbyist probably the only way to find out what works best is to experiment.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight's update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXIX - Some reflections of design

I had always planned at some point to try the Alphason HR100S arm and I decided that the Lenco was the perfect oppotunity. I was very lucky and dropped on a tonearm which worked well with the Lenco. The tonearm is coupled to the top plate with a 7mm EVA spacer and then I have a aluminium tonearm mount. This was done party by accideny, cost, and on purpose! The EVA is cheap and should eliminate or alter the Hz of vibrations from the top plate getting into the tonearm mount. The mount itself is pretty stiff and should make things pretty difficult for nasty vibrations getting into the tonearm and may again offer another level of change for the Hz of the vibration. The tonearm is made of Titanium which should dissipate things further and then the cartridge body is made from a heavy wood. I have used many different materials to try and alter the characteristics of any vibrations from the motor and top plate before they get into the cartrigde and vinyl. The idea is to change the Hz of the vibration from the motor into something that is not audioable through the cartridge and speakers. This has been augumented with stacked platters, platter dampening rings and x2 platter mats, alongside very careful attention in removing any components which could transfer rouge vibration into the cartridge or the vinyl. TBH a very well serviced motor and properly aligned mounting springs in the motor should stop the vast majority of nasties getting into the platter/vinyl/cartrige. I have tried to minimise and supress vibration via a mixture of differing materials, stringent component optimisation, and varied methods of vibration dissipation. The next logical step for me is the experimentation with Bamboo chopping boards and maybe the Mpingo wooden spacer to see if things can be improved any further. AND THEN THE THUNDERBOLT STRUCK......

Part of this build has been about not spending money so what if things I've done are about as good as they are going to get with regards vibration supression? If this is true then why would I need a new plinth and seperate decoupled tonearm pods? Your looking at probably £500 for a self made plinth and to hire someone with skills using a laithe to make a custom tonearm pod. What happens if I just get the same results as I'm hearing now? What a waste of cash. The only way I can justify spending the money is to listen to a deck which employs the decoupled tonearm principle. It would have to be a seriously massive upgrade on the old sonic ladder for me to splash the cash. Now this is a bit unfortunate for those of you following this thread as it means my further adventures into plinths and decoupled tonearm pods has just been curtailed a smidgeon :(. But it now means that I can use the resin filled top plate :eyebrows:. My roadmap for the Lenco's development has become a little clearer. It looks like it's going to be January - Tonearm experimentation. Feburary - Chopping board experimentation. March - Resin filled top plate. April - Maybe an optimised plinth with a little more mass and to better accomodate the new resin filled plinth.

The journey continues..... as ever............................:wave:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Chopping boards to be delivered on the 19th, should be worth a giggle doing a bit of experimenting.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Chopping board arrived, looks like the experiment continues tonight!

[brian2957]

Did the missus think they were for the kitchen :D

[Jimbo]

I think he is going to serve a medium rare Lenco and carve it up!:)

[Firebottle]

He's carved it up already hasn't he :scratch:

Medium rare suits me though :D

[Jimbo]

He's carved it up already hasn't he :scratch:

Medium rare suits me though :D

I like mine still alive!:eek:

[brian2957]

C'mon guys . Too much hilarity on this thread :ner:

[Wakefield Turntables]

OMG The bloody stylus has arrived. :eek:

[brian2957]

Oooh ! :popcorn:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXX - Waiting for buses...

This hobby is great but also frustrating. It's great that it enables endless experimentation and gives great joy when something works out but it's frustrating whilst having to wait for the bits to come through the post! So today just like waiting for a bus my Ikea chopping boards arrive one day early and then 3 hours later the new JICO stylus arrives for JAPAN, see I told you it would be a close call between which arrived first. I've decided to play arround with the chopping boards first to see if they do indeed provide any improvements. Well it's early doors but I do indeed think that they are beginning to drag out more micro detail from the vinyl that I'm listening to. I started with removing the Sorbothane footers and semi rigid feet combo that I'd been using for the last few months and just coupled the birch ply feet on the plinth directly to the Bamboo and I instantly noticed a loss in quality so it looks like that particular combination is indeed a positive tweak for the Lenco. I next decided to just try the semi rigid rubber feet coupled onto the Bamboo boards and I noticed an immediate improvement in how vivid and vibrant the soundstage sounded. I'm beginning to wonder if the Sorbothane may be dampening down some of the vitality to this deck. The deck is not lacking in speed and transient attack but I'm beginning to think that it's the poor old M55E which is the weak link in chain. It just seems to be lacking something that I can't quite put my finger on. :scratch: Maybe all this negative sentiment will be blown away with the new JICO neoSAS stylus :D . So, initially the chopping boards seem to be working but I need more time to really make a proper assessment and I also need to see if the Sorbothane footers add or take away anything from the deck. Here's a quick picture of the deck sitting on the chopping boards.

19120

Certainly food for thought doing all this experimentation. As always...................................:wave:

[karma67]

good work there mate,
i noticed a difference in detail when i installed a panzerholz tonearm board for the alphason,have you tried this stuff?

[Jimbo]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXX - Waiting for buses...

This hobby is great but also frustrating. It's great that it enables endless experimentation and gives great joy when something works out but it's frustrating whilst having to wait for the bits to come through the post! So today just like waiting for a bus my Ikea chopping boards arrive one day early and then 3 hours later the new JICO stylus arrives for JAPAN, see I told you it would be a close call between which arrived first. I've decided to play arround with the chopping boards first to see if they do indeed provide any improvements. Well it's early doors but I do indeed think that they are beginning to drag out more micro detail from the vinyl that I'm listening to. I started with removing the Sorbothane footers and semi rigid feet combo that I'd been using for the last few months and just coupled the birch ply feet on the plinth directly to the Bamboo and I instantly noticed a loss in quality so it looks like that particular combination is indeed a positive tweak for the Lenco. I next decided to just try the semi rigid rubber feet coupled onto the Bamboo boards and I noticed an immediate improvement in how vivid and vibrant the soundstage sounded. I'm beginning to wonder if the Sorbothane may be dampening down some of the vitality to this deck. The deck is not lacking in speed and transient attack but I'm beginning to think that it's the poor old M55E which is the weak link in chain. It just seems to be lacking something that I can't quite put my finger on. :scratch: Maybe all this negative sentiment will be blown away with the new JICO neoSAS stylus :D . So, initially the chopping boards seem to be working but I need more time to really make a proper assessment and I also need to see if the Sorbothane footers add or take away anything from the deck. Here's a quick picture of the deck sitting on the chopping boards.

19120

Certainly food for thought doing all this experimentation. As always...................................:wave:

Looking good Andy, I use sorbathane pods under a piece of compact laminate which then has my VPI standing on it. Works a treat especially as the VPI is high mass. I am lucky as VPI also add very good feet with cones and bearings to their Scout TT.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsjl1wefae.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsjl1wefae.jpeg.html)

[brian2957]

Looking good Andy . Let's see what the Jico SAS brings to the show .

[Wakefield Turntables]

good work there mate,
i noticed a difference in detail when i installed a panzerholz tonearm board for the alphason,have you tried this stuff?

not tried panzerholz but used ebony on my 1210 arm board to very good effect.mit may be worth while getting something made for the lenco, could be my next move. Thanks for the suggestions.


Looking good Andy, I use sorbathane pods under a piece of compact laminate which then has my VPI standing on it. Works a treat especially as the VPI is high mass. I am lucky as VPI also add very good feet with cones and bearings to their Scout TT.
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k424/Spendorsp2/image_zpsjl1wefae.jpeg (http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Spendorsp2/media/image_zpsjl1wefae.jpeg.html)

thanks Jim, lovely deck. VPI look like they lower the centre of gravity of the platter onto the four coned feet, clever!!


Looking good Andy . Let's see what the Jico SAS brings to the show .

well I might get a little play tonight.

[Jimbo]

not tried panzerholz but used ebony on my 1210 arm board to very good effect.mit may be worth while getting something made for the lenco, could be my next move. Thanks for the suggestions.



thanks Jim, lovely deck. VPI look like they lower the centre of gravity of the platter onto the four coned feet, clever!!



well I might get a little play tonight.

Thanks Andy, the VPI Scout also has a massive steel plate on the bottom of the plinth - about 3mm thick. This helps bring down centre of gravity and adds more mass.

Hope you enjoy the JICO SAS:)

[brian2957]

Morning gents , hope all is well :)

Yes I'm looking forward to Andys adventures with the Jico SAS too James :)

[Jimbo]

Morning gents , hope all is well :)

Yes I'm looking forward to Andys adventures with the Jico SAS too James :)

Think it will be a nice surprise Brian:).

[brian2957]

Well , I've heard the jump in these cartridges for myself James , so I'm pretty sure it's fair to assume that Andys experience will be the same :)

[karma67]

not tried panzerholz but used ebony on my 1210 arm board to very good effect.mit may be worth while getting something made for the lenco, could be my next move. Thanks for the suggestions.


imo its the level up from ebony,worth a go for sure :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Adventure started with the JICO neoSAS stylus fitted and tracking at 1.25g. Only one track in and noticed less mush to the soundstage and a narrowing of the soundstage very centrally focused maybe not as wide as the cheaper £40 JICO stylus. Surface noise is definitely lower. Now I must stop 'cos I'm off to the pub again to play a little pool and do some business with my mates. Probably get more time with this tomorrow. :cool:

[Jimbo]

Adventure started with the JICO neoSAS stylus fitted and tracking at 1.25g. Only one track in and noticed less mush to the soundstage and a narrowing of the soundstage very centrally focused maybe not as wide as the cheaper £40 JICO stylus. Surface noise is definitely lower. Now I must stop 'cos I'm off to the pub again to play a little pool and do some business with my mates. Probably get more time with this tomorrow. :cool:

I track mine at 1.5g Which seems to get the best out of it.

[Wakefield Turntables]

This JICO stylus is a bit good.

[brian2957]

This JICO stylus is a bit good.

I know :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXI - A quick cop out.... :eek:

OK, I'm not going to write reems about the new JICO neoSAS stylus (from now on known as the neo) but suffice to say that I agree with my other Lenco muckers in that it's something special and a considerable leg up the sonic ladder. I'm tracking at 1.5g and having a great time listening to all genre's of music. The only downside to the little Shure M55E is that it's too bloody polite and even handed and therein is the weakness of the Lenco deck. The M55E in it's current guise is now my reference MM cartridge but it can't compete with my high end MC's they just do stuff that the little Shure can't do. I will instantly leap to the defence of the Shure and say that it has a bloody good go of emulating the high end MC's. So, I think it equals the Ortofon 2M black and I would say that you'd easily be looking at £500-750 for a MC to beat it. This is a MM for Jazz fans and female vocals. It does do heavy rock but it dosen't DO heavy rock if you see what I mean. The neo can really render a close mic performance and the singer is palpable. Soundstage is a little narrower compared to the old stylus but that's ok because it just means that what I hear in nicely placed in front of me and easily disected. I can follow any instrument with great ease. The neo is quieter than the old JICO stylus and background noise is virtually non-existant, I've also heard no sibilance yet on any record. I would say that timbre various instruments is better defined with cymbals shimmering nicely, acoustic guitars sound nice. This thread is really about the evolution of the Lenco '75 and not the neo. I have to say that the Bamboo board is a keeper I started to notice lots of small details in old records that I'd not previously heard whilst playing on the Lenco, I'd heard the details on my other decks but put that down to those decks having highend MC's rather than a 2nd hand pimped Shure M55E from $cumbay. I think the neo and the Bamboo board together work synergestically and have been worthwhile purchases and would recommend them in a heart beat. I wanted a little more time auditioning the neo and bamboo board but have to say that the difference was instantly heard so it looks like my Evolution roadmap may have to be re-evaluated. I'm thinking it might be time to break the '75 down again and install the resin filled plinth and I may even order a ebony tonearm mount from speedy steve! I have one last experiment with the tonearm before I install the resin filled top plate and that is to see if the new '55 setup will improve even further with a little more isolation in the tonearm in the form of the mPingo wooden spacer that I own. OK, enough for tonight, as always.......................................:wave :

[brian2957]

Glad you like the SAS Andy , it's next in my upgrade path . Do you need one or two of the Ikea chopping boards for underneath the turntable ? Did you post a link to them , I may have missed it .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Glad you like the SAS Andy , it's next in my upgrade path . Do you need one or two of the Ikea chopping boards for underneath the turntable ? Did you post a link to them , I may have missed it .

You could try this one which is the "mother" of bamboo chopping boards. I've just bought one on the strength of what I've heard on my Lenco from the others that I bought.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APTITLIG-Butchers-block-bamboo-/272263926358?hash=item3f6431d256:g:-mIAAOSwQupXUv9Y

[brian2957]

That's a mighty chopping board mate :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

I bought two smaller ones and to be honest they only just fit so I decided to get the big one and have done with it. The other boards have gone under other bits of kit on my rack.

[brian2957]

I bought two smaller ones and to be honest they only just fit so I decided to get the big one and have done with it. The other boards have gone under other bits of kit on my rack.

Good , not wasted then mate :)

This big one should be interesting .

[Wakefield Turntables]

I dont think it's going to add anything else but it perfectly fits the footprint of my lenco plinth. Next mod is the new resin filled top plate which means a reBuild of the deck AGAIN! 8-(

[brian2957]

I'll have to measure mine .

You must be able to strip and rebuild that turntable with your eyes closed by now Andy :lol:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXII - Attention to the mains.

I've been getting rid of a few bits and decided to sell some mains filtration units which have been collecting dust for the last few weeks. So I decided to use one on my Lenco. It now filters the electric input into my Nigels Speed Controller which also has an additional circuit built into it to filter any nasties from the 240V coming into my listening room. Here's a few pictures of what I'm talking about :-

191601916119162

Considering I've already paid for this unit I decided it couldn't hurt to give it a go and see if we heard any improvements. First signs are encouraging and I shall hopefully post some thoughts over the next few nights when I've had chance to have a decent listen. I'm going to be dismantling the deck again and have decided to install the resin filled top plate. One of the interesting things about this journey is that I've come up with a few ideas for the Garrard 301 in that I'm probably going to add a bearing clamp at some stage and see if increasing the rigidity of the 301's bearing will help improve the sonics. The tonearm may get further attention later on in the year if funds permit and I was thinking of sending it to J7 for a rewire in SILVER and a full service! I thought my journey with this deck was ending but it looks like the old beast still has plenty of mileage! As ever........ :wave:

[brian2957]

I'm surprised that a mains filter works on the GL75 mate , but as they say....the proof is in the listening , and it didn't cost anything to try it . That may be a first I think :)

So the old girl is getting stripped again :lol:

I look forward to your findings again Andy :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Mains filter now out, didn't add anything to the deck neither did it take anything away. Big board now arrived and a new tweak for the Shure cartridge. :eyebrows:

[brian2957]

:popcorn: What's the tweak Andy ? :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco PT XXXIII - It's all gone a bit Blue Peter

Been a while since I posted on the Lenco as I started to listen to the Garrard 301 and some new valves, yes I've been naughty and neglected my Lenco, sorry :o. As always the Lenco has recieved several small tweaks since I last updated the blog. So what's happened? Well I recieved the new JICO stylus, I forgot to post a piccy, so here goes.

19208

I've also been messing around with Ikea chopping boards and I got such a nice positive response from the one I recommended. I decided to go the whole hog and order the 33mm thick version, there is some method in my madness.

1. It's a perfect footprint for the deck and the Lenco now looks very smart with it's new isolation plinth.
2. The chopping board is composed in alternate positioned layers which is said to give better vibration dissipatation.
3. I dont have to mess around building a new plinth or design a new isolation platform.
4. I've added additional mass to the Lenco which is something that I'm a firm believer in.
5. Most importantly I think it's getting more out of the Lenco, still early days but the timing just sounds "right".
6. I've always postulated that it's also important to stop vibration getting into the Lenco from the equipment rack, this chopping board does a good job here.

So, here's a couple of pictures of the new board and the Lenco mounted .

1920919210


Now what's all this about going Blue Peter? Well I have a slight confession to make. The Alphason came from eBay and was missing a few bits and that's why I got it so cheap. I've been using a anti-bias weight which was probably a little too large for the Alphason and the Shure Cartridge so I decided to make my own tonight! The new neoSAS stylys tracks at 1.5g but it's so good at tracking that I've not needed to mess around with an bias counterweight until tonight. I decided to make one of my own with a little cotton and some blu tack as an experiment. So as you can see on the pictures my new counterweight is now 0.5g and it's making such a big difference. :D So that's why we've gone all Blue Peter.


1921119212

So, the upshot of tonights messing around seems to be that the Lenco benefits from a lot of Bamboo under it's jacksie :booty:and that the neoSAS stylus works better with a small amount of anti-bias ~0.5g. I've still to perform the top plate transplant but then I'm enjoying the Lenco for now and I still have to fully appraise the effects of the chopping board. As ever.........................:wave:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXIV - Some observations...

One of the benefits with having two decks sharing one phonostage is the ability to see the difference bewteen two cartridged very quickly and this is indeed what I do when trying decipher any improvements when messing with the Lenco. There is of course one big downside and that's the other deck is my reference 1210 system and the Lenco carries considerably less exotica than the 1210. I have to sometimes remember that the hotrod Shure M55e is not the Cadenza black and the HR100SE is not the SME V. I find myself getting rather upset if Lenco dosen't show the same level of detail as the 1210 setup. I should judge the '75 for what it is but that can be hard.

OK some more musings on the Ikea chopping board and tonearm tweak from last night. Well after spending 5-6 hours listening over the last couple of nights I can now say that the board definitely works. The soundstage is slightly wider now than last time. Sibilance is a thing of the past, surface noise still occurs on badly pressed or damaged records but is generally silent. Bass seems a little more tuneful and with additional definition. Micro detail appears more noticable. The Lenco now appears to give better timing to instruments and increased spatial distance bewteen instruments. The improvements on the Lenco have been subtle but it's when you take the board away that the differences become apparent. So for £30 i can heartily recommend the Ikea Apigtit bamboo board, you need to make sure that you order the largest one.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Now on hiatus!

[brian2957]

Sorry I missed your posts because of work and getting back into the swing of things on dayshift Andy , bit knackered the last few days TBH . Have you decided to take a break and spend more time listening to music mate ?
I haven't been listening a lot myself lately :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm loosing steam TBH and I'm being seduced by the valve setup that I own, I'm messing around with a head amp at the moment.

[brian2957]

Sounds like you need a break buddy . Recharge your batteries and enjoy the music for a while Andy . I'm sure you will be back with some more great ideas when you're ready :)

This has been a fantastic thread so far mate :)

Is this the Lentek you're talking about ?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Lentek, yep.

[Wakefield Turntables]

UPDATE!

This project is not going to be on permanent hiatus but has been dropped in priority. I've got a few bits to do like a Lentek headamp project, some tube rolling on my Croft preamp, and a comparison of my Yannis 420 litz tonearm cable. I'm in the process of dismantling the '75 again for rebuild with the new top plate. I guess it's stay tuned and we might have something by the end of the month! :eyebrows:

[helma]

Geez, you're tenacious with that Lenco :D I know I've said this before, but I feel I need to say it again! If you haven't already, I suggest you mount a decent (or cheap for that matter) MC on that Lenco to let it shine without being held back by the cartridge. While I'm sure the M55 w/ the NeoSAS is no slouch and probably down right excellent in many respects, that cartridge body with it's high inductance still presents some limitations and personally I've yet to hear a MM cartridge that had the clarity, openess and effortless full scale of dynamics most even half-decent MCs have despite being held back by less than great diamond tips. If nothing else, at least you'd get a different sonic window into the performance of the Lenco and given the amount of tweaking you're doing, that would probably be a good thing.

I've been scratching by tweaky itch by recapping my 80s Yamaha amps and giving them some tweaks in the phono stage department. I started down the path of rethinking amplification and sold my FRT-3 SUT and have other things going up for sale soon, locally that is. Still very much in the "best sound I can squeeze from < £200 components" camp plus I love both 70s & 80s aestethics :) I'm also thinking of building a phono stage soon, but haven't decided yet on the design, I think op-amps are ruled out though. Something with J-FETs or valves probably. After a long time enjoyed soldering quite a lot for a change and I want to play around with some old Russian PIO or teflon caps or fancy resistors or something.

Staying tuned for your Lenco updates as usual.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Geez, you're tenacious with that Lenco :D I know I've said this before, but I feel I need to say it again! If you haven't already, I suggest you mount a decent (or cheap for that matter) MC on that Lenco to let it shine without being held back by the cartridge. While I'm sure the M55 w/ the NeoSAS is no slouch and probably down right excellent in many respects, that cartridge body with it's high inductance still presents some limitations and personally I've yet to hear a MM cartridge that had the clarity, openess and effortless full scale of dynamics most even half-decent MCs have despite being held back by less than great diamond tips. If nothing else, at least you'd get a different sonic window into the performance of the Lenco and given the amount of tweaking you're doing, that would probably be a good thing.

I've been scratching by tweaky itch by recapping my 80s Yamaha amps and giving them some tweaks in the phono stage department. I started down the path of rethinking amplification and sold my FRT-3 SUT and have other things going up for sale soon, locally that is. Still very much in the "best sound I can squeeze from < £200 components" camp plus I love both 70s & 80s aestethics :) I'm also thinking of building a phono stage soon, but haven't decided yet on the design, I think op-amps are ruled out though. Something with J-FETs or valves probably. After a long time enjoyed soldering quite a lot for a change and I want to play around with some old Russian PIO or teflon caps or fancy resistors or something.

Staying tuned for your Lenco updates as usual.

Kai,

Hello again! I've used the Denon 103M + Lentek headamp to very good effect with the Lenco and your right it does raise the game quite considerably. There is method in my madness. Changing to a new MC will then stop me from being able to see if the upgrades have worked. I now know the "sound" of this deck extremely well and can easily pick out if something has improved my listening experience. I fully understand your urge to mess around with components, I'm engaged in messing around with the Lenco head amp and is one of the reasons why the Lenco has been put on hold. I should be starting up again after this weekend. :eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights update - The Reference Lenco pt XXXV

Project re-started! Today made a simple tonearm protractor so that I can accurately install the Alphason on the new resin fillled top plate. I've also decided to make a new mounting pod for the Alphason, this time several mm higher so that we can get better VTA for the cartridges used on the Alphason. I'll post some pictures of the new top plate to show the mods. Only a small update tonight but the development goes on... As ever, stay tuned... :wave:

[brian2957]

Tonights update - The Reference Lenco pt XXXV

Project re-started! Today made a simple tonearm protractor so that I can accurately install the Alphason on the new resin fillled top plate. I've also decided to make a new mounting pod for the Alphason, this time several mm higher so that we can get better VTA for the cartridges used on the Alphason. I'll post some pictures of the new top plate to show the mods. Only a small update tonight but the development goes on... As ever, stay tuned... :wave:

Back on track Andy , nice one . As I probably won't be able to sell the GL75 as a complete entity I have decided to hold on to it rather than break it up . Yesterday I bought the butchers block which was linked to and I have to say I agree with your findings .
I will be carrying out a few other mods , however to really take this turntable to the next level I have concluded that I need a much better phono stage , which will possibly be bought this year .

[Jimbo]

Back on track Andy , nice one . As I probably won't be able to sell the GL75 as a complete entity I have decided to hold on to it rather than break it up . Yesterday I bought the butchers block which was linked to and I have to say I agree with your findings .
I will be carrying out a few other mods , however to really take this turntable to the next level I have concluded that I need a much better phono stage , which will possibly be bought this year .

Nice to see your back on track with the Lenco Brian.:cool: You cant underestimate the value of investigating isolation support for your turntable. Try popping some sorbothane feet under the butchers block, you may be surprised.:)
http://www.analogueseduction.net/vibrapod/vibrapod-isolators-pack-of-4.html

[brian2957]

thanks James , I have some in my box and I'll give it a try .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Brian i have some spare cut off's if you want some really thick sorbothane, I think it's 7 or 9mm thick, might be useful for you???.

[brian2957]

Yup , I wouldn't mind Andy . I reckon I could find all sorts of uses for this thanks . Have you tried this under the chopping board yourself ?

I'll PM you my address .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Yup , I wouldn't mind Andy . I reckon I could find all sorts of uses for this thanks . Have you tried this under the chopping board yourself ?

I'll PM you my address .

i have to be honest and say that I've moved away from sorbothane and prefer the results just with the deck standing on its birch ply feet and then a hard rubber footer, this then stands on the chopping board. I have nothing sitting under chopping board. This seems to work quite well. I got rid of the sorbothane as I didn't think it did anything to the deck, it might work for yours however.

[brian2957]

Worth a try Andy . What's the postage BTW ?

[Jimbo]

i have to be honest and say that I've moved away from sorbothane and prefer the results just with the deck standing on its birch ply feet and then a hard rubber footer, this then stands on the chopping board. I have nothing sitting under chopping board. This seems to work quite well. I got rid of the sorbothane as I didn't think it did anything to the deck, it might work for yours however.

I forgot the Lenco sits on sprung base so Sorbothane might not be beneficial. Works great under high mass unspring turntables. I have a slight issue with motor noise/ vibration at the moment and need to isolate it. I know how to do it but need the job doing with a table saw!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Worth a try Andy . What's the postage BTW ?

About 60p, seriously, it's on me. :)

Jim, I'd agree with you on high mass as this is how sorbothane works. What issues are you having with Lenco?

[Jimbo]

About 60p, seriously, it's on me. :)

Jim, I'd agree with you on high mass as this is how sorbothane works. What issues are you having with Lenco?

Lenco ok Andy, it's my VPI motor that is giving me issue. It is completely separate from the TT but sits on the same platform (compact laminate) and it buzzes a bit so need to cut a separate bit out of the compact laminate so it is totally separate.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Lenco ok Andy, it's my VPI motor that is giving me issue. It is completely separate from the TT but sits on the same platform (compact laminate) and it buzzes a bit so need to cut a separate bit out of the compact laminate so it is totally separate.

Could I recommend a bamboo chopping board :lol: ?

[Jimbo]

Could I recommend a bamboo chopping board :lol: ?

I may well try it. Problem I have with the motor is it sits on same board as TT so needs to be totally separate. Bamboo board maybe easier to cut!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well tonearm mount made, now waiting for my drill. Why? Well I've been ripping old some wardrobes in my new clinic and my old workhorse drill has been required. Hopefully tomorrow night should signfy the beginnings of the latest phase of development (EVIL LAUGH), ma ha ha ha ha! :mad:

[brian2957]

About 60p, seriously, it's on me. :)

Jim, I'd agree with you on high mass as this is how sorbothane works. What issues are you having with Lenco?

Thanks Andy .

What's all this about table saws and drills you two . We're dealing with precision engineering here :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thanks Andy .

What's all this about table saws and drills you two . We're dealing with precision engineering here :D

Its the top plate, quite tough actually. I've a funny feeling I'll be doing a lot of messing around with this new resin fillled jobbie.

[brian2957]

Its the top plate, quite tough actually. I've a funny feeling I'll be doing a lot of messing around with this new resin fillled jobbie.

I will be watching with interest Andy . Just be careful mind :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXVI - The great push!

Well got the drill back today and decided to put it to good use. I finished making my very high tech tonearm alignment system.

19355

The above pic shows the new top plate (resin filled) with a new optimised tone arm hole. The speed selector is now fixed for just 33 rpm. Every hole that can be filled has been filled. You can see that the resin is actually easy to drill.


19356

Here's a close up of the work done for the Alphason arm.


19357

The above picture just shows a mock up of the new tonearm mount which is several mm taller and now made in black to match the paint work. You can also see the excellent jolly fix bearing and top plate mount.


19358

A close up of the new tonearm mount. Hopefully better VTA and sonics!

The top plate is now undergoing several coats of laquer to give it a nice shiny appearence.

Right, that's it for tonight, as ever stay tuned...... :wave:

[brian2957]

OK now I'm confused ( not hard :) ) I thought the tonearm was going to be fitted off the top plate .

Is what's the centre of the hole for the tonearm ( 211 mm ? ) Did you use the wood as a guide as to where to drill the centre of the hole for the arm . What's the bottom piece of the tonearm mount made from and how is this fixed to the top plate .
Sorry for all the questions Andy :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

OK now I'm confused ( not hard :) ) I thought the tonearm was going to be fitted off the top plate .

Is what's the centre of the hole for the tonearm ( 211 mm ? ) Did you use the wood as a guide as to where to drill the centre of the hole for the arm . What's the bottom piece of the tonearm mount made from and how is this fixed to the top plate .
Sorry for all the questions Andy :D

i was going to mount externally from the top plate but decided I didn't want the cost of another plinth. I've also used many materials of different densities and stiffness in a hope that any resonance will be eliminated to such an extent that it's not sonically noticeable. I did use the wood as a guide to drill the hole. The centre of the large drilled hole is extactly 211mm from the centre of the bearings spindle apex. The bottom piece of the tonearm mount is medium density EVA. I've not fixed the tonearm mounts to the top plate yet, I may have to make three custom bolts for the job as the old mounting bolts might not be long enough. Ah the joys of modding!

[brian2957]

OK Andy , thanks for the clarification . Things are much clearer now . Were you an engineer in a past life BTW :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Were you an engineer in a past life BTW :)

No i just take things apart and then try to learn how things have been engineered.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXVII - Plonking things back together again!

I usually do an hour on the Lenco every night as a way to destress but sometime this can be counter productive and produce more stress than it's supposed to relief :doh:. So tonight I finally managed to drill the final mounting holes for the tonearm mount only to discover that the original mounting bolts are now too short, so it looks like I'm going to either search around the garage tomorrow night for some M5 thread or buy some over the next few days. I still have plenty of things to be going on with and I managed to remount the bearing and also the on/off switch alongside the idler wheel park break. I still have some way to go. The '75 is now partially populated and the listening room is a complete bomb site! Tomorrow should hopefully see the installation of the motor. I must admit to being knackered and don't really fancy doing anymore tonight, so I'll bid you all a goodnight. As always, stay tuned............... :wave:

[brian2957]

Doing a bit of cutting and reshaping then Andy . Sounds like a fair bit of work for this one :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

. Sounds like a fair bit of work for this one :)

Mainly drilling and sanding. I'm hoping to get it finished over the next few days. Final setting up can be done at leisure. All I want at the end of this week is a spinning platter and a silent motor :eek:

[brian2957]

Well if you've got that with a GL75 you're halfway there Andy .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXVIII - Still learning more about the deck!

The Lenco is now fully populated, wired up and platter turning (at 39.9 rpm :doh:) and the motor is extremely noisy. This dosen't matter to me as I still have lots to do. So I thought I'd post a few pics.

19386

An underside shot of the old and new top plates. The right is the new modded version with marine resin and every hole filled. The left top plate looks like a swiss cheese.

19387

A fully populated top plate and this time you can see the extent of the filling under the platter.

19388

Further isolation and resonance control for the idler brake and idler arm.


19389

The speed selector and all the screws holding it are now gone.

See more mods in pt 2 of tonight update.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Reference Lenco Pt XXXVIII - Part deux.

A quick shot of the new speed selector.


19391

A shot of the new tonearm mounting kit I put together. Previously the tonearm mount was held onto the the top plate with x3 very small M5 nuts, seen on the right of the picture. The new kit comprises of x3 longer length M5 bolts which need modding and then x3 large washers and x3 nuts. The idea is to improve the contact between the tonearm mounting pod and the top plate whilst spreading any resonance through the bolts and washers on the underside of the plinth onto the marine resin. I've picked large washer to try and increase surface area.

19393

Final shot of the night. Here's the '75 in it's current guise.

19394

So what next? Well believe me or not I think I've come up with a way to completely get rid of all the speed selector linkages. I need to check the garage for spare parts. The deck needs fine tuning and the motor springs need properly setting up. Looking good so far. I have a fun feeling I'm going to get my arse bitten when it comes to fitting the tonearm cable. :(

As always... Stay tuned.................:wave:

[brian2957]

Been hard at work then Andy :D

I've got to pop out to visit mother in law in hospital , however , I look forward to part 2 when I return .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Begone evil speed selector and all your linkages. New mod seems to work. More tomorrow. :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXIX - Sanity nearly restored.

Putting the Lenco back together again has been a great experience so far. Like all experiments it can be a little frustrating when things don't quite go to plan but I think that's what makes this hobby so fun in that you end up learning from your mistakes and then you get more confident on the next project. I decided that I wanted to make a new tonearm mount and indeed I have but I managed to fcuk things up a little in that the drill holes are not as accurate as what they could be and the mounting threads are too short :doh:. This isn't a problem as my Karma tonight has been kept in check in that knowledge that the platter spins at 33.3 rpm solid and that's with the stacked platter configuration :hairmetal:. My second dosage of Karma tonight was realised when I managed to completely dump all the engineering for the speed selector. A total of 12 components (I think) which can no longer transmit resonance from the top plate and then into the idler wheel and then the platter (you get the idea).


19408

So the deck now looks like Mr. Skinny on it's underside.

19409

All this optimisation leaves me with a rather big problem in that I now have a few bloody big holes on the top plate which are now going to need filling (AGAIN :steam:). I'm still cool with this extra work as it's no big deal really and will just add another day or two onto the completion time, big deal.

19407

So this is how the deck looks as of tonight.

19406

There are still quite a few jobs to do before I've finished. I've learned that motor fine tuning is best left until last. Funnily enough the motor is a little quieter than last night. This is probably from all the jiggling around from when I was trying to fine tune the platter speed. I'll probably do the tonearm mount work first and then get the final holes filled in the top plate, then another respray. I'm beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel (again). OK, as ever, stay tuned....:wave:

[brian2957]

Good grief , there isn't a lot left of the original GL75 is there Andy , and to be honest I rather like it . It's still my intention to grab an old knackered top plate and go down the route you have gone down . However , you seem to have taken things much further than expected and I will be watching this thread with interest . Looking very nice indeed . Well done mate :)

[walpurgis]

I've got a GL68 top plate Brian. If you fancy doing a 90 degree job.

[brian2957]

Thanks Geoff but I'm busy changing other parts of my system at the moment , costing a bit at the moment .

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've got a GL68 top plate Brian. If you fancy doing a 90 degree job.

Jean Nantis?


Thanks Geoff but I'm busy changing other parts of my system at the moment , costing a bit at the moment .

Thanks for the comments. I could go further and remove the linkages for the on/off switch. This would then mean using a bit of fishing line and 40g to control the idler wheel on the motor spindle, just like Jean Nantis. I haven't forgotten the sorbothane!!!!! I'm looking into some more isolation around the motor springs and possibly on the mounting threads, I'll give it some more thought when I'm less tired!

[brian2957]

This is getting a bit technical now matey :D

No hurry for the sorbothane Andy , I will have to have a good look at it before I decided on uses .

[Gazjam]

Thanks Geoff but I'm busy changing other parts of my system at the moment , costing a bit at the moment .

other parts.....like? :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXX - End game.

I decided to concentrate on getting the tonearm mount sorted today. So I have a couple of pics to highlight whats been done. Firstly I decided to slightly modify (for a change) the drill holes. I made them slightly wider than the mounting threads so that any resonance from the top plate was not passed into the threads and therefore into the tonearm. I additionally started to add another layer of sorbothane under the wide based washers, I have this sitting around and it's collecting dust in the tool box so why not use it up? I had to make three new thread mounts and being a bit of a packrat helped. I'd kept several very long bolts thinking that they may be useful and low and behold here they are slightly modified.

19410

This is just a quick shot on the top of the top plate showing the newly installed tonearm mount. It took a little trial and error before it finally slotted in. This additional height should enable better VTA alignment for future cartridges.

19411

I have the small matter of filling in the speed selector switch. This is going to be a visit to Halfords for some more filler and then a quick respray, fortunately I still have enough supplies to do the job.

19412

The last major job is getting the motor mounting springs under the correct tension so that we have a nice silent motor and then its just a case of properly mounting and bolting the 75 alongside the Jolly bearing. The tonearm should fit in straight in and it's been properly aligned and setup since last time. I do have a funny feeling about the tonearm cable not fitting properly, I think this could be the fly in the ointment. So I could be spinning vinyl again on the 75 in the next 3-5 days and then I think I'm having a rest for a while until I can think of some other mad stuff. As ever, stay tuned.......:wave:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXI - So near yet so far.

The Lenco is now fully populated and mounted back into it's plinth. It runs to speed and the motor is nearly silent again. I've always had an issue with one of the front motor springs and suspect that it could really do with replacing but with a little tweaking I can get the motor to run silent within a whisper. Now, I've decided to get the Alphason tonearm fully serviced, re-wired and fettled to ensure I get maximum performance from the old girl. This means that the arm will have to go to J7 @ audio origami as do all my arms purchased 2nd hand. The service usually take a couple of weeks which is no great shakes as I have a couple of other decks to play around with and this time gives me the oppotunity to listen to some recently purchased muzak. Now the sad bit :wah: this could mean the end of the road for modding the little Lenco. I honestly dont think that there is much further to go. I think that I might publish another update or two just to detail how the deck sounds and then I think that's that!

As ever, stay tuned..............:wave:

[brian2957]

Aw...that's a shame Andy :rolleyes: . This has been a great thread and I've really enjoyed reading it :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Aw...that's a shame Andy :rolleyes: . This has been a great thread and I've really enjoyed reading it :D

Theres still life in old thread yet Brian. I have a few bits and pieces still to do and the thread might get updated as I mess around with new cartridges etc.

[Marra]

It's been a good read Andy. I will no doubt be implementing some of your mods as and when I finally get around to replinthing my 75. I already have one of Jolyon's excellent bearings and A Norbert idler wheel; just need the weather to pick up so's I can use my workshop[ back garden]:D

[brian2957]

I always keep my eye on this thread Andy . I've really enjoyed reading it too and will use it as a guide when I buy my 2nd GL75 :)

[struth]

Sure plenty folk will

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXII or life the universe and everything Lenco....

Wiring, snake oil, complete Hollocks or positive sonic improvement? I have no clue, I just like the idea of decent honest good quality components at a reasonable price. So I decided to replace my power lead from the Speed controller to the PS Audio P10 power regenerator :eyebrows:. So, I went to HiFi collective and ordered a couple of goodies

1947419475

and a couple of meters of my favourite screened power cable, good old Belden! The old power cord has now been relegated to powering my CD player. Gone is the "high content copper" components and now everything is 100% copper. I've got some silver wire kicking around so I may rewire the deck in pure silver which will probably not do anything, but you never know! ;) So, I've done just about as much as I can to get the best quality "juice" into my deck. Decent conductors with a clean, filtered, reconstructed power supply.

As ever, stay tuned.....................:wave:

[torstoi]

Hi Andrew,

congrats to your very nice project ! :)

I've read through all of it with great pleasure and also particularly your pictures
are well made and helpful understanding what you did and why..

Between the lines I sense you had to have a certain patience with the timing of delivering of your bearing.

Could I possibly ask you a favour ?

Could you put him a short note via mail, asking him to get back to his German customer..?

Sorry to bother you with this, but it would help me a lot.

From the quality you seem very pleased with the Jolyon bearing..?
That's good news at least,
I'll enjoy reading your sonic results and thougths, especially in comparison to other decks you have experienced.

Kind regards,,
T

[Wakefield Turntables]

It's been a good read Andy. I will no doubt be implementing some of your mods as and when I finally get around to replinthing my 75. I already have one of Jolyon's excellent bearings and A Norbert idler wheel; just need the weather to pick up so's I can use my workshop[ back garden]:D

Keith, hope you've managed to get something from all my ramblings. Glad you enjoyed the read so far. I've still a few things up my sleeve!!


Sure plenty folk will

Grant, that's the reason why I started the thread in the 1st place, hopefully people won't make the mistakes I've made and maybe get something out of my experimentation.


Hi Andrew,

congrats to your very nice project ! :)

I've read through all of it with great pleasure and also particularly your pictures
are well made and helpful understanding what you did and why..

Between the lines I sense you had to have a certain patience with the timing of delivering of your bearing.

Could I possibly ask you a favour ?

Could you put him a short note via mail, asking him to get back to his German customer..?

Sorry to bother you with this, but it would help me a lot.

From the quality you seem very pleased with the Jolyon bearing..?
That's good news at least,
I'll enjoy reading your sonic results and thougths, especially in comparison to other decks you have experienced.

Kind regards,,
T

Torsten, thanks again for all your kind comments. My best piece of advice with regards your bearing is to contact the Lenco Heaven web administrators and see if they can help you, I think they will have more influence, additionally you could start a thread on Lenco Heaven detailing your problems, I dont think Jolyon is a bad guy and I know that he's had health issues.

[torstoi]

Thank you Andrew,
I'd absolutely agree with you, he's been pleasant in conversation & I have no reason thinking anything bad as of yet.
It is just for some reason I don't know he's not responding to email.
I'm sorry to hear he has had health issues.
I'm definitely not starting a thread as personally I have a certain aversion against pulling things to public this way,
as I have seen such kind of threads go wrong big time & not sure the harm that is done can ever be repaired.
But I'll give him a week and ask the Lenco Heavens mods then,,,that's a good idea actually.
Thanks a lot, enjoy your deck & have a nice evening ! :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXIII - Wiring Pt 2 - Or, this thread has had a reprieve Mr. Pierrepoint!

Well for those of you that follow this thread, hello, here we are again! I'm sitting here listening to some Black sabbath through my JR149's whilst sipping a little single malt (sober)! The deck is very nearly finished but I realised that I'd not really give meticulous thought to the wiring, there really isn't much to be honest on a standard '75 but mine's far from standard. I have several area's that I've had to concentrate on. Firstly the power cable for the Nigels speed controller was of a good construction and has been re-cycled elsewhere in my system but I realised that I'd like something better. So, here we are :-

19505

A lovely big thick snake of a cable (:flasher:) complete with a ferrite coil scrounged from the garage tool box. Weirdly the voltage into the NSC now seems less erractic using this cable than the old one. This is something I've noticed several times whilst swapping and experimenting with the cables. I usually like ferrite coils at the start and end of all my cables. I've also had to think about my Alphason Tonearm. I bought this 2nd hand from e$cum minus a few bits and pieces and whilst it's performed very well I still feel that I could get more. I've recieved an email tonight from J7 at Audio-origami telling me that arrived at his place and is now having a full overhaul. So, the arm is being re-rewired with IKEDA silver and I've decided to have some silver cartridge tags. The bearing is going to be stripped and cleaned and the arm-cue mechanism repaired. I'm having my tonearm cable din replaced from a 90 degree version to a straight version with 24k gold pins. I also have a umbilical power cord going from the deck to the Nigels Speed Controller which is currently a 4 ft flexible power cable with a cheap male IEC connector. This is to be replaced. I've just ordered 6ft of 1mm silver to make a simple power lead from the deck to the NSC. The length of the cable will be optimised, the cheapo male IEC will be replaced with a silver plated version. I'm VERY disappointed I couldn't find a solid copper version.

I also like to optimise the deck and remove as many parts as possible. So, can you guess which bit of the deck I'm considering dumping next? Clue, it's something to do with the power!!! Yep, the on/off switch with spark supressor cap. I've not done anything yet with this and shall have to see how it sounds through the speakers. Can I live with a POP through the speakers? Who knows, depends how bad it is! I did intend re-wiring the on/off switch in silver but then again why should I bother if it's potentially being dumped. That I think is that for wiring. I'd really like to get to "know" my deck again and this time do some good solid listening sessions and determine it's new sonic signature. I'll still be using the Shure M55E for the time being and then probably switch over to MC's. OK you lot I'm sure you've had enough of me.

Stay tuned and as ever......................:wave:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXIV - Some thoughts about a new motor!

The only real motor replacement in my eyes is the Frenk motor replacement. It's a really neat design and supposedly pumps less vibration into the top plate due to the fact that it's DC rather than AC. I think that Frenk still makes these altough a lot of the discussion threads seems quite old and there has been comments about supply of the motor's drying up. I hate things that can't be proven and less motor noise into the top plate being my main bug-bear. How do we know that FrenK's motor dumps less vibration into the top plate than a standard motor? We don't! Cost is approx 200 Euro's, so do I buy one of these motor's or put it onto the "potential purchase" list? The answer is "no" to both options! A number of things worry me about this motor.

1. There is no proof that the motor pumps less vibration into the top plate.
2. It's not a Lenco motor and part of what makes a Lenco sound like a Lenco is it's motor.
3. The battery power supply will eventually fail and need replacing (additional cost).
4. There are some reports that batteries fluctuate power supply and therefore would cause platter speed variations.
5. A purchase of a Frenk motor would make my NSC obselete.

The list could go on. My current configuration works a treat. I have a very clean, continual power supply to the Lenco. I can reduce vibration from the motor by dropping the voltage. I run stacked platters which means that any motor vibration has to travel through two heavy platters which are dampened with dampening rings and a couple of thick mats. Resonance has a hard time with my deck. The top plate is filled with Marine resin which makes the top plate quite staff and adds additional mass. The birch ply plinth is pretty good at mopping up resonance, the whole deck stands on a Bamboo chopping board which adds additional resonance control. The tonearm is mounted on solid aluminium / EVA mount which is then mounted with threaded bolts onto compressed sorbothane, the tonearm itself is solid Titanium. I dont think much vibration is going to get through that lot! So, after a little contemplation my wallet is staying shut and the Frenk motor replacement comes off my list of mods. I've concluded that any improvements the motor could bring to my '75 are not sufficient enough to validate a purchase and that the deck in it's current configuration probably already benefits from any improvements that the Frenk motor could offer.

As ever, stay tune................. :wave:

[brian2957]

Mmm... I like your reasoning Andy :) I think you're correct when you say that the Lenco motor is a part of the '' stock '' turntable SQ . Don't know if you're wallet is safe just yet though as I think there's more to come on the spending front . Trouble is there's no knowing what you will think up next mate :eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Mmm... I like your reasoning Andy :) I think you're correct when you say that the Lenco motor is a part of the '' stock '' turntable SQ . Don't know if you're wallet is safe just yet though as I think there's more to come on the spending front . Trouble is there's no knowing what you will think up next mate :eyebrows:

I think I've explored pretty much every area that I can with this deck. The tonearm refurb is probably going to be a few bob but then again it always needed doing from the day I bought the Alphason. I think the only thing now for me to play with is new cartridges or step up transformers/head amps for the '75. I've still got a few threads to go over and I may get some new ideas but I can't see me spending anymore series money on the deck now. Time to enjoy the latest around of mods and figure out the sonic signature of the deck. :cool:

[brian2957]

Yup , enjoy the fruits of your labour Andy :)

The new mains cable looks excellent BTW :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Yup , enjoy the fruits of your labour Andy :)

The new mains cable looks excellent BTW :)

Should be fun trying out some new carts on the '75. Yep, I thought the new mains cable looked pretty neat. I'm just in the process of finishing off the umbilical power cord. The last of the silver arrived today so that's a job for tomorrow.

[helma]

Re the motor, for "upgrade" I'd be inclined to think in terms of attaining several motors, providing careful maintenance on each, centering motor coils etc. and then picking the best example. At ~50 years of age I'm sure they are going to be "individuals" even without accounting for any possible variations in manufacturing.

I have no reason to think a well made DC-motor with good speed controlling wouldn't be a great motor for the Lenco, but somehow I would feel a bit bad having one in mine to be honest. Just seems to go against the ethos of the deck or something.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Re the motor, for "upgrade" I'd be inclined to think in terms of attaining several motors, providing careful maintenance on each, centering motor coils etc. and then picking the best example. At ~50 years of age I'm sure they are going to be "individuals" even without accounting for any possible variations in manufacturing.

I have no reason to think a well made DC-motor with good speed controlling wouldn't be a great motor for the Lenco, but somehow I would feel a bit bad having one in mine to be honest. Just seems to go against the ethos of the deck or something.

I've already done pretty much what you've suggested the motor I've fitted is the best of three that I had sitting around. I may decided to re-visit the motor again and see what other tweaks I can devise. :eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXV - Tyre Kickin', or waiting for your fettled tonearm.

The old Alphason has been gone two weeks this coming Friday so I decided to finish a few little jobs. I managed to get my old Celestion Ditton 15's reworked and then I decided to take a little time to further mod the '75. Tonights pictures show you all what I've been upto. The first picture shows the new silver umbilical power lead which goes from the Nigels Speed Controller to the Lenco's motor. The old power cable is now sitting in my spare cable box in the attic. The final cable is the old Lenco switch. Originally I wanted rid of this but after speaker to a few people it would seem prudent to leave it in place. So I'll be shortening the cable which should smarten up the underside of the '75.

19619

A quick picture showing the back of the deck and the speed controller.

19620

Now this pictures demonstrates an extremely expensive component from China, the ferrite coil! I picked up a pack of 10 for £2.79 delivered from China!!! :eek:The Lenco now has 4 in situ, two which sit under the platter and hopefully prevent any crap getting into the Lenco motor and a couple sit just before the Nigels Speed Controller. It will be difficult to assess if they help but at less than £1 for 4 it can't hurt! I've added them because I noticed quite a difference when I employed them on my Technics 1210 and associated kit.

19621

More attention to coupling and dampening. I've replaced the 4 wing nuts which I used at the end of the top plate mounting rods with 4 simple M4 nuts. I found that I was getting more of the top plate to couple with the plinth when using thse and especially when they were tightened with the molegrips. The plinths feet are now sitting 100% flush to the plinth whilst previously one the feet didn't quite make it, so, coupling of the plinth to the IKEA chopping board should be improved. The dynamat was found lurking at the bottom of my spare cable box so I'm going to see where it can be used to dampen vibration. I'll probably end up putting this in discrete areas around the motor and maybe the bearing. We shall see, be assured I'll post some pictures.

19622

I'll be paying more attention to the coupling of the tonearm. I dont really want to undo the deck again for some time. I'd like to listen to some vinyl at some stage! So we still have a little way to go before we are fully finished. I may even decided at some point to de-couple the motor. I'm in the process of looking at the various solutions that have been proposed over the years. I have my spare motor and top plate out on in workshop and when I get a little time shall start experimenting with solutions. :popcorn:

I've enjoyed putting tonights update together.

Well, as ever please stay tuned but until then..... :wave:

[shaman]

That's a Barbara Thompson lp in the background I believe
Fine composer and saxophonist.Saw her with Colosseum in their second to last gig, superb band and Barbara
was great although struggling with a very debilitating illness.You have good taste!

[Wakefield Turntables]

That's a Barbara Thompson lp in the background I believe
Fine composer and saxophonist.Saw her with Colosseum in their second to last gig, superb band and Barbara
was great although struggling with a very debilitating illness.You have good taste!

Nigel

Yep, it's her ok. I first heard her when she played on Julian Lloyd Webbers Variations album and, yes, I also own the Colosseum stuff as well. I think she's a dame now, well deserved. The album you spotted was a £1.50 charity shop find and it's extremely well recorded. I'd recommend it to you if you don't already own it.

Andy

[shaman]

Hi Andy, yes I do have that album and all of her others too, they are all very good.
I do like jazz/Rock. The gig I saw was at the Robin 2 Bilston. Chris Farlowe's vocals were amazing for a guy in his 70's.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Lenco Reference Pt XXXXVI - More tyre' kickin, or further experimentation with vibration supression.

The Lenco has been silent now for several weeks. I have got used to these long periods of waiting whilst and have come to learn that its part and parcel of doing old decks up. The tonearm has been away for two weeks and is number 11 in a stack of jobs waiting over at AO. So I started to think of ways the deck could be tweaked and then I realised that I'd not actually done much in the way of vibration supression for the actual motor itself, I've been reliant of the mounting springs to do the majority of the work. Now I'm not a person to waste materials and I managed to find some Dynamat from my Thorens TD160 project. I'm now in the process of custom cutting pieces of dynamat to be applied externally and wherever possible internally. I've spent so much time working on trying to supress vibration getting to the platter and cartridge that I didn't address the causative factor, the bloody motor :doh::doh::doh::doh:. There is probably going to be several hours work here before everything is covered on the motor. I also get to create a little space in my cable spares box. I've included a little picture of tonights work. One hour and 12 individual pieces cut. This little project on the motor should pass another few days whilst waiting for the tonearm. Tomorrow I need to find some more 1-2mm sorbothane at work to continue with further experiments and tweeks, but thats for another update.

19691

As always stay tuned...................:wave:

[AlfaGTV]

Damned Andy, tenacious doesn't nearly describe your efforts! :)

[brian2957]

So the motor is in bits again Andy :) No stone unturned mate . TBH I have a feeling that this may yield good results , although there's only one way to find out methinks .
And there was me thinking that you were coming to the end of the road :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Damned Andy, tenacious doesn't nearly describe your efforts! :)

Well, I do try!!


So the motor is in bits again Andy :) No stone unturned mate . TBH I have a feeling that this may yield good results , although there's only one way to find out methinks .
And there was me thinking that you were coming to the end of the road :)

Not quite! The motor is a spare and I've been using it as a template to cut all the various parts. My journey is very nearly ended, HONEST!!! I'm just passing time until the tonearm arrives, it will have been gone for three weeks this Friday. So, I'm just super fine tuning stuff whilst the arms off and I have access under the hood. I've a few bits and bobs to do and then it's a few weeks of vinyl replay to assess all the work that's been done.

[brian2957]

Think you're right about the motor being a major source of vibration though Andy .

[struth]

Think you're right about the motor being a major source of vibration though Andy .

hows the new system doing brian?

[brian2957]

I haven't had a lot of time for a listen Grant . Listening now though and I'm very happy with what I'm hearing . I will be hooking up the GL75 tomorrow when I get a chance :)

[struth]

I haven't had a lot of time for a listen Grant . Listening now though and I'm very happy with what I'm hearing . I will be hooking up the GL75 tomorrow when I get a chance :)

god to hear it doing it. need to get over sometime

[brian2957]

You're welcome any time Grant . I'll buy the cakes :D

[struth]

cakes.. good stuff. Need to sort a date mate... Ive still to redo my system. Waiting til I get all the bits and Im strong enough, so a couple of years lol

[anubisgrau]

just stumbled across this evening for sale near me

http://www.kupujemprodajem.com/Lenco-PTP5-43926765-oglas.htm?filter_id=132

with shroeder reference 12" tonearm (clone, i suppose)

cheapo.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXVII - It's all a bit Dave Clarke 5, or the Lenco is in pieces again :D.

It's been a while since I last wrote so I thought I'd better update the thread. I've heard back from J7 and the Alphason tonearm is now getting looked over. The bearing appears to be in perfect nick, lets hope the rest of the tonearm is in the same state. I have a sense of urgency now because the tonearm will be here in a few days. I have been experimenting with the motor whilst the deck has been stripped and I think I've noticed a few areas where things can be improved with regards vibration isolation. I'm also in the planning stages of decoupling the motor but this is something that I will be leaving for now as I want to hear the sonic changes to the deck.

It's all a bit Dave Clark!

19799

The motor is now covered in Dynamat. The Dynamat was sitting at the bottom of the spare cables just gathering dust. I managed to use up all the spare Dynamat that I had and I've done a pretty good job covering the whole of the motor with special attention being paid to the motor cage and spindle head.

19800

I found some rubber washers which I'm going to use on the bearing's spindle between the bearing locking brace. The idea is to try and trap isolation from the bearing getting back into the plinth or to minimise.

19801

Now this next picture is interesting. It shows a gap between the motor springs and the top plate. I'm looking for a suitable thickness rubber washer to stuff in here to try and dampen vibration even further.

19802

A quick picture showing how crowded it is under the hood. Decoupling the motor is very easy but the tricky bit is deciding which method to use.

19803

Tomorrow night will be spent looking at the motor and seeing what can be done to dampen the vibrations in the motor.

Enough for tonight. As ever, stay tuned...... :wave:

[brian2957]

Back on the trail again Andy . This looks like good work once again . I remember mucking around with the GL75 and I took the suspension springs out not realizing that the motor was touching the wooden body of the turntable . Flippin eck , that little motor can vibrate . I was taken aback how much TBH . So any work in that area seems to be a very good idea in my opinion .
I have little ball bearings which fit into the adjuster at the end of the motor spindle ( supposedly an upgrade ) if you're interested in one or two of them to try .
Fantastic pictures once again BTW :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Minor update. Just ordered x3 sets of isolation spikes from Hong Kong. Should be fun and will enable me to add greater isolation to the deck and the isolation board that I use with the '75. I also additionally had no way of levelling the deck that's a problem now solved.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXVIII - Call the AA, tyre pressure down or more tyre Kick'in.

Just waiting for several components to arrive from various venerable people in the audiophile world. I've managed to dig out a fresh set of motor springs and as a consequence will try mounting the motor on both sets that I own and seeing which reduces motor vibration the best. I've still not assessed the motor anatomy properly but I think I've recognised a couple of areas that could be improved. I'm hoping that the ability to properly level the deck and further attention to detail with respect to motor vibration will hopefully improve the sonic performance of the deck. I had a little scare earlier this week when the speed controller decided to blow it's fuses. A couple of new 2A 250V jobbies got the old girl back up and running. I think we are entering our 6th week without the Alphason. I'm missing the old beast and cant wait to spin a little vinyl.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Today's update - The Refence Lenco Pt XXXXIX - The lull before the storm, or shit I need to get organised!

BIG news today. The Alphason tonearm should be coming back in a day or so. It's been fully fettled, rewired with IKEDA silver, new silver cartridge tags and has had a tonearm earth added which it was previously missing. The tonearm queing mechanism is now fixed and the bearings recieved a clean bill of health. I've had my Tyr tonearm cable modified from right angled to straight 5 din adapter which means it will fit better in the new tonearm mount and benefit from extra vibration protection from the top plate ;). I've done a little more work on the Lenco.

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/SPUNKGOBBLER/DSCN3008_zpskjcioztg.jpg (http://s349.photobucket.com/user/SPUNKGOBBLER/media/DSCN3008_zpskjcioztg.jpg.html)

We now have two tiers of vibration control and isolation. I've removed the old feet from the Lenco and applied 4 new heavy weight spikes from Japan, they are excellently produced and cost £18 for a set of 4, a bargain. I think I'm in for a bit of a treat with these as they have markedly improved the peformance of the bog standard chopping block that I've been using. The next update was to the old bamboo chopping block. I have mounted an additional 4 spiked feet onto the chopping board which enables me to further protect the deck from ground bourne vibration. All the additional spiked feet allow the deck and isolation boards to be fully levelled which should improve tonearm function. I have a big update planned for Part XXXXX of this thread.

As ever stay tuned....... :wave:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonearm arrived. Finally, get to put everything back together for a listen. :cool:

[brian2957]

:popcorn:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXX - This modder is having a rest.

The Lenco has now been fully set up again and all I can say is :wow:. All the extra time spent waiting around fine tuning the deck has meant that things have moved on again with regards what I'm hearing. The deck is now properly setup. Tonearm geomtery, cartridge alignment, tracking weight, ya da ya da, all setup correctly. The deck is now completely level.

19867

The deck is even more isolation from vibration.

19865

The Reference Lenco as it sits March 2017.

19866

The little shure M55E now sounds like a £750+ cartridge, I think it would now probably equal the Ortofon 2M black. TBH the thing which is now letting the deck down is the Shure cartridge but I love the little thing. I might go down the route of getting a Denon 103 and tweak it and then run it through the Lentek headamp that I have reserved for the Lenco's usage. Vinyl replay is surface noise silent. No sibilance. It's just a very nice place to be in at the moment. The deck will from time to time undergo additional tweaks and upgrades. I've been thinking about a slightly redesigned heavier plinth and maybe some more isolation for the tonearm cable to stop vibration from the phonostage and plinth from getting into the cabling. The motor will at some staged be de-coupled and probably mounted into the chopping block but that is for another time. So, I guess for the time being this is journey's end.

BYE! :wave:

[brian2957]

Not goodbye Andy ..... Au revoir .... I'm pretty sure this thread will be resurrected once '' tweakitis '' strikes . It's bin good though :cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXI - Brought back from the dead.

A little mini-update. I rather missed writing about my adventures with the '75. The deck has now got a new cartridge in the form of a Denon 103M which is now run through my Lentek headamp. Nothing new here as I said that it would be the way forward for this deck. This is the deck in its latest incarnantion.

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/SPUNKGOBBLER/DSCN3026_zpspu6knofj.jpg (http://s349.photobucket.com/user/SPUNKGOBBLER/media/DSCN3026_zpspu6knofj.jpg.html)

Here's the new cart strapped to the '75.

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/SPUNKGOBBLER/DSCN3017_zpsbavgmho3.jpg (http://s349.photobucket.com/user/SPUNKGOBBLER/media/DSCN3017_zpsbavgmho3.jpg.html)

This cartridge bowls the old M55E out of the water and take the deck to a whole new level. I have written a review elsewhere on the forum. I honestly think the deck sounds probably about as good as I can get it. There will be tweaks as the years roll by and probably small improvements will occur via trial and error with tweaking carts,
platter mats etc. The decoupled motor is the next job on the list, but that's for later in the year.

As always, stay tuned.... :wave:

[karma67]

j7 does proper finger lifts for the alphason by the way :)
the turntable looks very nice!

[Wakefield Turntables]

j7 does proper finger lifts for the alphason by the way :)
the turntable looks very nice!

Thanks. J7 did a FULL service on the Alphason. It's now virtually the same as your, I've got IKEDA silver rewire. Sounds great. The arm lift was knackered bit not anymore. :eyebrows:

[tapid]

Although a fair bits gone over my head I've also enjoyed your thread Andrew. Love those ice cream waffer looking plinth s btw, beautiful wood.
Was thinking about ikeda wired for technoarm myself at one point then looked at my bank balance ? j7 is a great man to have onside. best wishes

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco pt XXXXXII - Ear's what I'm hearing!

Just a very very small update. The Denon 103M is now a keeper. I wrote a small review here - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?50779-REVIEW-Denon-103M-A-very-rare-cartridge. I might start planning the motor decoupling mod this month or next :D. It's probably going to be a new head amp for the deck.

Brian, thanks for the kind comments. Glad to hear you enjoyed the thread, it's not dead just yet!

[Dr Henry Jones]

The linn has its following, part of there appeal is pace rhythm at timing......It doesn't appeal to me . Modded lencos may take some time and effort and money BUT they run rings around one of ivors main selling points.....pace . rhythm and timing and cost nowhere near as much. matched with the right arm and cartridge, modded well and you have a very serious contender to top end turntables and that's not such an exaggerated statement as some people might think .

[Wakefield Turntables]

The linn has its following, part of there appeal is pace rhythm at timing......It doesn't appeal to me . Modded lencos may take some time and effort and money BUT they run rings around one of ivors main selling points.....pace . rhythm and timing and cost nowhere near as much. matched with the right arm and cartridge, modded well and you have a very serious contender to top end turntables and that's not such an exaggerated statement as some people might think .

I had an LP12 years ago and felt a bit of a PRaT (sorry couldn't resits) at the time for falling for all the waffle written about them. Fine if you like them but I think they are massively over priced now.

[tapid]

Andy how you finding the time to do all this btw. Presumably your working, doing the lenco, writing about it in great detail and I also hear whispers that your doing
a 5 mile walk on nth/ york moors every night. Some people !!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Andy how you finding the time to do all this btw. Presumably your working, doing the lenco, writing about it in great detail and I also hear whispers that your doing
a 5 mile walk on nth/ york moors every night. Some people !!

I've a job where I look after a lot of people, I have approx 3-5000 people registered in my clinics. I do usually a 10 hour working day and then 1-2 spending time with my daughter until she goes to bed. I usually spend 1-2 hours working on the Lenco and then it's bed. I do actually walk into work and home again and yes the walk is approx 5 miles (well guessed). My OWN personal time is when I walk into work and work on the Lenco. I have time to destress and think about my next audio project which is usually some stupid bonkers jobby. I find this forum very friendly and I get great enjoyment from writing my waffle on here, hopefully some will find it useful. Some may laugh by that's alright by me. I hope this has answered you question Brian. ;)

[tapid]

Yes it has, and i m impressed, very very impressed. Well done mate. I m rather sorry, with your incredibly busy life that I even asked the question now,
and you actually went to the trouble of answering it. With me I seem to make a drama out of anything like the fairly simple task of changing a pair of v blocks !
Perhaps I could book into your clinic at sometime Andy. best wishes

[Wakefield Turntables]

Yes it has, and i m impressed, very very impressed. Well done mate. I m rather sorry, with your incredibly busy life that I even asked the question now,
and you actually went to the trouble of answering it. With me I seem to make a drama out of anything like the fairly simple task of changing a pair of v blocks !
Perhaps I could book into your clinic at sometime Andy. best wishes

im always happy to help. If ever you need any help just get in contact.

[CornishPasty]

Some people are very driven and thrive on it. I think Andy is one of those people. I used to be the same until few years ago when osteoarthritis put me in hospital. So think on Andy and all you driven people. Take some time out now and again because you can't turn the clock back.

[tapid]

Thats very kind of you Andy.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights update - The Reference Lenco pt XXXXXIII - Further musings on decoupling the motor.

I've pondered long and hard with regards decoupling the '75 motor. I have searched the two biggest forums for Lenco nutters and can find very little if any evidence to suggest that this mod would be truly beneficial. The evidence at best is anecdotal. I've added numerous tweaks whilst designing and modding this Lenco to mitigate the effects of the motor vibration getting into the platter/vinyl/cartridge interface. I thought tonight's update could be used to argue why NOT to decouple the motor. My first gambit in decreasing vibration into the platter was to lower the voltage going to the motor with my Nigels Speed Controller, now this has been proven to be beneficial and as such I now run the motor at a lower than normal voltage and at a level where the driven and propulsion of the Lenco still remains intact. The motor itself has been subject to lots of work. Firstly it been completely stripped, relubed, bearings ultrasonically cleaned. The casing has been screwed together with a very high torque drill to make sure that its as closely packed together as possible. I purposefully removed the earthing post away from the motor to stop any vibration from the mains lead getting into the motor and passing further up the chain. The motor has been covered in dynamat and now sits on a set of springs that I'm happy with. I tried three sets of mounting springs before I was happy. All excess parts has been removed from the Lenco and any parts that are still living the hood have special vibration reducing gromits seperating them and the top plate, this is to stop motor vibration passing from the mechanical parts back into the top plate. The top plate itself is now filled with resin which adds mass and makes it very difficult for motor vibration to pass through the top plate. Adding resin to the top plate also increases surface area which means that any motor vibration that is in the top plate is now spread over a much larger area when coupled to the plinth. All holes within the top plate have been filled to stiffen the top plate and to eliminate vibration. The mounting of the top plate was modded so that I could achieve a very tight coupling of the top plate to the plinth, I used a special washer, sorbothane shiled and nut system on the four mounting bolts, this means I can equally tighthen the mounting the threads. The plinth is heavy birch ply, not the best material for dampening but not far of the top. The plinth is mounted on four spikes which is then mounted on a very thick bamboo base board which has it's own set of spikes, I've found this to be a very effective way of improving the '75's soundstage. The bearing also recieved some attention with respects to vibration control in that its bolted into place with a top plate mounting plate and then I've stiffened up the mount even further by cross bracing the base of the bearing to the plinth, this enable me to apply a downwards force on the bearing which further pulls the top plate down onto the plinth and further improves the coupling of the bearing to the top plate, Mr. Vibration is going to find it hard getting into my vinyl. The mounting system for the bearing also has additional rubber washers to further isolate and vibration. The platter has also recieved special attention in that it's a two stacked heavy platter system with additional x3 dampening rings. On top of the platters sit two specially chosen mats which combined (to my ears) give the best sonic presentation in my system and then there's the 1.25kg copper weight which pins the vinyl down onto the platters. The tonearm also recieved special attention and selection. I picked the Alphason due to the fact it was very rigid which made it very difficult to transmit vibration down the tonearm. The alphason has been serviced and the bearing is in perfect nick which is just as well as this also eliminates vibration. I've got the Alphason mounted on a EVA/Aluminium tonearm base which is designed to couple the arm to the top plate and elimate vibration from the top plate getting into the arm. The cartridge selection, the Denon 103M was also partially driven by the solid aluminium body which again is rigid and pretty immune to vibration, the cartridge has a Mpingo wood spacer which is very dense and you've guessed it, good at vibration supression. The tonearm is mounted with three special threads which have wide diameter washers and sorbothane spacers to prevent vibration from the top plate getting into the tonearm whilst allowing a very good coupling of the tonearm to the top plate. So to conclude I don't think I'll be decoupling the motor :lol:! The ethos of this build has been more about coupling and feeling the love :grouphug:rather than splitting things up :fence:and feeling less groovy (sorry bad pun). I'm more than happy to re-assess this topic if decoupling of the motor can be conclusively proven to be beneficial. Now, some good news for followers of the thread. I think the deck can be developed a little further so I shall be producing a few more updates with respects to EMI/RFI shielding and diamond stylus profiles. I would strongly urge you all to by a cheap magnet for the next update!

As ever, thanks for reading, hope this has been beneficial and stay tuned......:wave:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Some people are very driven and thrive on it. I think Andy is one of those people. I used to be the same until few years ago when osteoarthritis put me in hospital. So think on Andy and all you driven people. Take some time out now and again because you can't turn the clock back.

Driven bonkers most days Ralph. I must admit to being very jealous of your Lathe skills! I've started to already looks at freeing some time up during the week to spend with friends and family. Wise words mate.

[karma67]

Tonights update - The Reference Lenco pt XXXXXIII - Further musings on decoupling the motor.

I've pondered long and hard with regards decoupling the '75 motor. I have searched the two biggest forums for Lenco nutters and can find very little if any evidence to suggest that this mod would be truly beneficial. The evidence at best is anecdotal. I've added numerous tweaks whilst designing and modding this Lenco to mitigate the effects of the motor vibration getting into the platter/vinyl/cartridge interface. I thought tonight's update could be used to argue why NOT to decouple the motor. My first gambit in decreasing vibration into the platter was to lower the voltage going to the motor with my Nigels Speed Controller, now this has been proven to be beneficial and as such I now run the motor at a lower than normal voltage and at a level where the driven and propulsion of the Lenco still remains intact. The motor itself has been subject to lots of work. Firstly it been completely stripped, relubed, bearings ultrasonically cleaned. The casing has been screwed together with a very high torque drill to make sure that its as closely packed together as possible. I purposefully removed the earthing post away from the motor to stop any vibration from the mains lead getting into the motor and passing further up the chain. The motor has been covered in dynamat and now sits on a set of springs that I'm happy with. I tried three sets of mounting springs before I was happy. All excess parts has been removed from the Lenco and any parts that are still living the hood have special vibration reducing gromits seperating them and the top plate, this is to stop motor vibration passing from the mechanical parts back into the top plate. The top plate itself is now filled with resin which adds mass and makes it very difficult for motor vibration to pass through the top plate. Adding resin to the top plate also increases surface area which means that any motor vibration that is in the top plate is now spread over a much larger area when coupled to the plinth. All holes within the top plate have been filled to stiffen the top plate and to eliminate vibration. The mounting of the top plate was modded so that I could achieve a very tight coupling of the top plate to the plinth, I used a special washer, sorbothane shiled and nut system on the four mounting bolts, this means I can equally tighthen the mounting the threads. The plinth is heavy birch ply, not the best material for dampening but not far of the top. The plinth is mounted on four spikes which is then mounted on a very thick bamboo base board which has it's own set of spikes, I've found this to be a very effective way of improving the '75's soundstage. The bearing also recieved some attention with respects to vibration control in that its bolted into place with a top plate mounting plate and then I've stiffened up the mount even further by cross bracing the base of the bearing to the plinth, this enable me to apply a downwards force on the bearing which further pulls the top plate down onto the plinth and further improves the coupling of the bearing to the top plate, Mr. Vibration is going to find it hard getting into my vinyl. The mounting system for the bearing also has additional rubber washers to further isolate and vibration. The platter has also recieved special attention in that it's a two stacked heavy platter system with additional x3 dampening rings. On top of the platters sit two specially chosen mats which combined (to my ears) give the best sonic presentation in my system and then there's the 1.25kg copper weight which pins the vinyl down onto the platters. The tonearm also recieved special attention and selection. I picked the Alphason due to the fact it was very rigid which made it very difficult to transmit vibration down the tonearm. The alphason has been serviced and the bearing is in perfect nick which is just as well as this also eliminates vibration. I've got the Alphason mounted on a EVA/Aluminium tonearm base which is designed to couple the arm to the top plate and elimate vibration from the top plate getting into the arm. The cartridge selection, the Denon 103M was also partially driven by the solid aluminium body which again is rigid and pretty immune to vibration, the cartridge has a Mpingo wood spacer which is very dense and you've guessed it, good at vibration supression. The tonearm is mounted with three special threads which have wide diameter washers and sorbothane spacers to prevent vibration from the top plate getting into the tonearm whilst allowing a very good coupling of the tonearm to the top plate. So to conclude I don't think I'll be decoupling the motor :lol:! The ethos of this build has been more about coupling and feeling the love :grouphug:rather than splitting things up :fence:and feeling less groovy (sorry bad pun). I'm more than happy to re-assess this topic if decoupling of the motor can be conclusively proven to be beneficial. Now, some good news for followers of the thread. I think the deck can be developed a little further so I shall be producing a few more updates with respects to EMI/RFI shielding and diamond stylus profiles. I would strongly urge you all to by a cheap magnet for the next update!

As ever, thanks for reading, hope this has been beneficial and stay tuned......:wave:

1 word......paragraph :stalks: :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

1 word......paragraph :stalks: :)

:rfl:yep, not the best! I just wrote the whole thing in one go, it is what it is :thumbsup:.

[CornishPasty]

Cheers Andy, I'm self taught on the lathe and still have a great deal to learn. I do it for pleasure and the reward comes when I get a result. I often have to make a piece two or three times before I'm happy.

On the subject of decoupling the Lenco motor I've given up trying and just use the standard springs. I tune the motor for the quietest noise by careful rebuilding etc but unfortunately the motor is still coupled to the platter by a hard rubber wheel. One step I might try sometime is to magnetically reduce the pressure on the bearing thrust pad which should lower the inherent noise level of the turntable. There is a thread on LH about this somewhere and I have the details for the two magnets if you're interested. The idea is not to levitate the platter but simply reduce the weight sitting on the bearing thrust pad. Someone here has a Platine Verdiere if I'm not mistaken so will be well aware of the benefits and someone else is marketing such a device for the Linn Sondek.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Cheers Andy, I'm self taught on the lathe and still have a great deal to learn. I do it for pleasure and the reward comes when I get a result. I often have to make a piece two or three times before I'm happy.

On the subject of decoupling the Lenco motor I've given up trying and just use the standard springs. I tune the motor for the quietest noise by careful rebuilding etc but unfortunately the motor is still coupled to the platter by a hard rubber wheel. One step I might try sometime is to magnetically reduce the pressure on the bearing thrust pad which should lower the inherent noise level of the turntable. There is a thread on LH about this somewhere and I have the details for the two magnets if you're interested. The idea is not to levitate the platter but simply reduce the weight sitting on the bearing thrust pad. Someone here has a Platine Verdiere if I'm not mistaken so will be well aware of the benefits and someone else is marketing such a device for the Linn Sondek.

Ive seen the magnet idea implemented but TBH i think I'm happy with what I've got. Although never say never. My next post is going to be about reducing the risks of electromagnetic interference.

[CornishPasty]

EMI, now that sounds like an interesting subject Andy.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco PT XXXXXIV - Diamonds are forever.

I've been quiet recently and for good reason. The Lenco is finished and now shall only be tweaked when the mood takes. I did a little research with regards diamond profile and I have to thank Charlie (topoxfordoc) for the following link. https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22894 which saved me a hell of a lot of time and effort. I think this link can answer some of the reasons why my original MM cartridge (a Shure M55E with JICO neoSAS stylus) sounded so good. It has a Major Radius (R) or 75um which sits very nicely thanks very much in the groove of vinyl and only the Ortofon Replicant has a larger Major Radius value with 100um but you do pay an extremely large amount of money for this and from a value for money prespective the new JICO neoSAS stylus is a bargain albeit for 25% less width. I then began to think about the alternatives for the Denon 103M which now sits in the Alphason tonearm, so far this cartridge has cost me £180 and it still has a lot of life. The 103M has been compared to carts costing £1K and isn't that far behind them. I'm not sure how much a retip would cost for the 103M, shall we say £400 maximum, that means a total spend of £580. This may be looking at things a little too simplistically but If I could get a decent diamond profile of say 75um I should be in for a very very nice treat and probably have a cartridge which sounds like something in the £1.5K range, especially when running through the Lentek head amp. This may be a worthwhile experiment and it would be interesting to compare this against my Reference cartridges which consist of a Ortofon Silver Meister SPU and a Ortofon Cadenza black. Picking the correct diamond profile is going to be the hardest bit as there are several do you go down the route of Fritz Geiger or maybe van den hul, or maybe something else? Well, thankfully, I don't have to do anything just yet.

OK, that's me done for tonight. As ever, stay tuned...... :wave:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXV - Tonearm optimisation

I've been thinking more about the tonearm alignment over the last couple of days and wondered if we could coax any more performance out of the deck by really fine tuning the tonearm and alignment. So the first thing to do was properly level out the platter which I did, see first picture.


20240

Now to check the alignment of the cartridge. I use the Feckheart system and true to form it revealed Lofgren B alignment for the Alphason tonearm. It's a very slightly customised version but I'm happy that my 103M cartridge is aligned. See photo 2 and 3

2024120242

Tracking weight was important so I decided at 1.4g, ok its 0.1g out but who can really tell the difference at this level?

20243

Now for something a little geeky. The mass of the Alphason arm is 11g whilst the mass of my Denon 103M is 5.6g, this gave a resonance of 12Hz according to the Vinyl Engine calculator, perhaps a little too high. So, with additional mass of 5g which consists of a couple of spacers, the mounting nuts, screws and finger lift I have managed to increase the cartridge mass to 10.5-11g which now gives a resonance of 10Hz. I'm hoping the Mpingo wood spacer might even knock the resonance level down another Hz!! I would need to add an additional 5g of mass to get into single digit Hz levels. Completely impractical.
My pivot to spindle mounting distance for the Alphason is 211mm I managed to measure mine at 210mm so I obviously screwed up by 1mm but this does not seem to have affected the Lofgren B alignment. I've managed to get quite far tonight and there are still things to improve. I've noticed that the tonearm is not completely parallel to the vinyl along the shaft of the tonearm there is a 1mm heigh difference from the rear to the front of the tonearm shaft according to my SME mounting template, so that's tomorrow's job. Overhang and Offset distance and angle also appear to be within normal limits. Can I hear a difference? Too early to tell. I'm still pretty miffed the parallel height distance of the tonearm. Come back another day for more thoughts.

As ever, stay tuned......:wave:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXVI - Deja Vu - Visiting an old friend

Well I've dumped the Denon 103M and head amp and have gone back to an old friend, the Shure M55E, why? Well after shed loads of listening there really isn't that much init, the Denon 103M+Lentek headamp is the better configuration but I've more interconnects than I like and I also have the additional faff of replacing a battery every few weeks with the headamp. The additional bonus of the Shure cartridge is that I have managed to keep the same tonearm and cartridge resonance, all the tonearm tweaking is still in place but I have concrete proof that I have a diamond that tracks with a 75uR diameter in my vinyl grooves. This stops me from having to spend stupid amounts of money on having the Denon 103M modded. The tonearm is still 1mm higher to the back than the front but the Shure cartridge is tracking parallel to the vinyl so I'm happy. This now concludes the tonearm tweaking.

[Barry]

Now to check the alignment of the cartridge. I use the Feckheart system and true to form it revealed Lofgren B alignment for the Alphason tonearm. It's a very slightly customised version but I'm happy that my 103M cartridge is aligned. See photo 2 and 3

2024120242



Now for something a little geeky. The mass of the Alphason arm is 11g whilst the mass of my Denon 103M is 5.6g, this gave a resonance of 12Hz according to the Vinyl Engine calculator, perhaps a little too high. So, with additional mass of 5g which consists of a couple of spacers, the mounting nuts, screws and finger lift I have managed to increase the cartridge mass to 10.5-11g which now gives a resonance of 10Hz. I'm hoping the Mpingo wood spacer might even knock the resonance level down another Hz!! I would need to add an additional 5g of mass to get into single digit Hz levels. Completely impractical.


My pivot to spindle mounting distance for the Alphason is 211mm I managed to measure mine at 210mm so I obviously screwed up by 1mm but this does not seem to have affected the Lofgren B alignment.


The low frequency resonance will be lower than you calculate. Denon, like a lot of Japanese cartridge manufacturers, quote the dynamic compliance at 100Hz. At around 10Hz it will be 19.5-26 cu, which with the masses you quote, places the LF resonance between 6.7 to 7.8Hz.

Also, the null radii for the Alphason arm lay at 65.7mm and 120.6mm respectively, which correspond to the Baerwald (also known as Loefgren A) geometry. Your 1mm error in spindle to arm pivot distance ought to lay well within the overhang adjustment range of the arm.

[Dr Henry Jones]

I have moded a few lencos and i am writing to tell you..........With the fundamental nature of idlers put into a well made plinth and good arm and cartridge combination the lenco will run rings around a linn when it comes to prat. and for that matter (baring in mind the right arm and cartridge combination ) it does all other things very well indeed.
A well moded Lenco,301, 401,124 brings the very high end at prices a normal working man can afford.
Any of the above have huge bass control and huge prat, now combine it with an arm known for its mid and treble purity ( unipivot for me )
and there you have it. I have no doubt that the same could be Don to make belt and direct drive sing, but for me the idler does have a very
Strong sense of rightness about it
Regards steve

[Wakefield Turntables]

The low frequency resonance will be lower than you calculate. Denon, like a lot of Japanese cartridge manufacturers, quote the dynamic compliance at 100Hz. At around 10Hz it will be 19.5-26 cu, which with the masses you quote, places the LF resonance between 6.7 to 7.8Hz.

Also, the null radii for the Alphason arm lay at 65.7mm and 120.6mm respectively, which correspond to the Baerwald (also known as Loefgren A) geometry. Your 1mm error in spindle to arm pivot distance ought to lay well within the overhang adjustment range of the arm.

Why that's even better still, low single digit Hz levels is better than 10Hz! The M55E is now setup for Loefgren and you were correct the 1mm pivot/spindle distance error on my part hasn't really had an impact on cartridge alignment, the little lenco is making VERY nice sounds. I could quite happily live with this deck for life in it's current configuration.


I have moded a few lencos and i am writing to tell you..........With the fundamental nature of idlers put into a well made plinth and good arm and cartridge combination the lenco will run rings around a linn when it comes to prat. and for that matter (baring in mind the right arm and cartridge combination ) it does all other things very well indeed.
A well moded Lenco,301, 401,124 brings the very high end at prices a normal working man can afford.
Any of the above have huge bass control and huge prat, now combine it with an arm known for its mid and treble purity ( unipivot for me )
and there you have it. I have no doubt that the same could be Don to make belt and direct drive sing, but for me the idler does have a very
Strong sense of rightness about it
Regards steve

The Lenco is very even handed and a very good performer with all genres of music it's perhaps the best all rounder I've owned. My 301 is best for Jazz whilst the technics 1210 is best for forsenic analysis of vinyl. The Lenco just seems to produce effortless reproduction of music irrespective of whats being played.

[Jimbo]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXVI - Deja Vu - Visiting an old friend

Well I've dumped the Denon 103M and head amp and have gone back to an old friend, the Shure M55E, why? Well after shed loads of listening there really isn't that much init, the Denon 103M+Lentek headamp is the better configuration but I've more interconnects than I like and I also have the additional faff of replacing a battery every few weeks with the headamp. The additional bonus of the Shure cartridge is that I have managed to keep the same tonearm and cartridge resonance, all the tonearm tweaking is still in place but I have concrete proof that I have a diamond that tracks with a 75uR diameter in my vinyl grooves. This stops me from having to spend stupid amounts of money on having the Denon 103M modded. The tonearm is still 1mm higher to the back than the front but the Shure cartridge is tracking parallel to the vinyl so I'm happy. This now concludes the tonearm tweaking.

Nice one Andy, the Shure M55 with Jico SAS is a very nice combination and on my Lenco delivers a stunning performance, I prefer it in some ways to my VPI set up. I am sure the micro ridge profile of the SAS digs deeper and tracks better than the 103M. I can't comment sound wise but I expect more detail retrieval from the M55 but less boogie factor?

I need to pop a capacitor on the on/off switch when I get round to it and I will then be using the Lenco for my main turntable again.

I use a protractor for overhang set up but not sure if it's the best. Do you have one that you would recommend or can you send me to a link for the one you use?:)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi Jim, nice to see you back on the thread again. I use this. http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/feickertprotractor_e.html pricey but very worthwhile.

[Jimbo]

Hi Jim, nice to see you back on the thread again. I use this. http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/feickertprotractor_e.html pricey but very worthwhile.

Ah yes I have seen those, I use his speed platter calibration app with his test record which is very good.

I may well invest in this alignment protractor as it will be useful for any turntable set up.

Thanks for the link, will read that after I have watched Eurovision:lol:

[Barry]

Why that's even better still, low single digit Hz levels is better than 10Hz!

How so? Figures below 8Hz should be treated with caution, unless you are very confident about the isolation of your TT from the room/floor.

[Wakefield Turntables]

How so? Figures below 8Hz should be treated with caution, unless you are very confident about the isolation of your TT from the room/floor.

The whole ethos of this build has been about messing around with vibration isolation and I've tried to employ many different strategies to make sure the deck is as immune as possible.

[Barry]

So what is so special about single figure LF resonances? :scratch:

[Dr Henry Jones]

Your right about the 301 with jazz ! With a hadcock and an audio technical mm it sings beautifully ! To be honest I like it with all sorts of music, but I have to agree with you that as an all rounder the Lenco has an edge

[Wakefield Turntables]

Your right about the 301 with jazz ! With a hadcock and an audio technical mm it sings beautifully ! To be honest I like it with all sorts of music, but I have to agree with you that as an all rounder the Lenco has an edge

My 301 gets used every week. The Lenco gets used when I feel like it.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco - Pt XXXXXVII - Mini mini tiny weeney update

More tweaking and mucking around with the Lenco. This time I've had an antiskate weight made for me for the Alphason Tonearm. I'm currently using a spare which is not really as good as it could be. I've also found my old cork mat so being a little bored I've decided to do a little platter mat shoot-out, my current combination is a Gimp map sat underneath an original Garrard 301 mat which to my ears has produced the best results so far. I've also noticed a new bearing for sale over on Lenco Heaven which is getting some good feedback but being cautious I'll sit back and wait. The Lenco has been performing very well since the last update and is being used on a semi-regular basis. Until next time :wave:

[brian2957]

Ello Andy , haven't seen you update this thread for a bit :) Hope you're enjoying the GL75 :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Ello Andy , haven't seen you update this thread for a bit :) Hope you're enjoying the GL75 :)

Hello mate! The deck is pretty much finished now I occasionally scan lenco heaven for ideas and new pieces of kit. The lenco isn't quite as detailed as my other decks but it is so much fun and I think I've spun more vinyl on the Lenco than the 1210 over the last two months! I've still a few ideas that I could implement but it would mean a complete rebuild and design paradigm.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXVIII - Cork blimey! Or more buggering about with mats........

My current mat configuration is the "gimp" mat bought from eBay and an original Garrard 301 mat and this combo has seen my through
for quite some time. I have tried many costly (Tenuto gun metal platter mat and Crystal glass mat) and many cheap options (cork,
felt) and quite a few others alongside numerous combinations of all of the above. I decided to try 4mm cork and the Garrard mat
and also a trial of the "gimp" mat and the 4mm cork mat. I have used these in various combinations and I'm happy to say that I have
found a combination which wins hands down compared to the various combinations and experimentations that I've tried. I've settled
upon 4mm cork as a base mat and then the Garrard 301 mat sitting on top. I've had a few hours listening and I think that this combo
is the best to date.

Listening to Van Halen 1984 with a "gimp" + cork mat combo was a very anaemic affair the soundstage went very lean and the
guitar of Eddie Van Halen went very lean and etched, no detail. The soundstage seemed to recess and in general whilst it was OK for
four minutes I can't say that I'd have wanted to continue for much longer. Moving back to the familar Gimp+Garrard combo restored my
old Lenco soundstage (Phew)! Now trialling Cork+Garrard and things went up another level. Alex Van Halens cymbals had more shimmer
the bass suddenly became fuller and more tuneful and delivered more harmonic insight. This combination seems to major in bringing
more detail to the fore of the soundstage. A second experiment listening to the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner with three different
mat combo's brought some interesting results, suffice to say that the cork+garrard mat combo again trumped all combos.
Again detail and a fuller soundstage seemed to be the main benefits of this combo.

Surface noise appears to be a tad reduced which is always a bonus. I just happen to have a cork mat kicking around in my spares box
but they can be purchased for <£7 from eBay. The Garrard mat can also be purchased from eBay, just do a search for Garrard 301. I
wonder if the new Garrard mats are made from the same compounds as the original Garrard mats and consequently wonder if they would
produce the same results so try and buy NOS or an original mat if you can. The cork mat has lifted the Lenco a little higher up the
sonic ladder and I can honestly say that it's been one of those tweeks that has brought quite a marked improvement for virtually
peanuts money.

As always, stay tuned.

[tapid]

Hi Andy , Recently purchased a reso mat on ebay and really pleased with results so far on my 75 with mayware / decca combo ( have you tried it ?)
Also do you think 2 mats is generally better than 1 ?. Lastly are you see doing the 5 mile, or was it 10 everyday.best wishes

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi Andy , Recently purchased a reso mat on ebay and really pleased with results so far on my 75 with mayware / decca combo ( have you tried it ?)
Also do you think 2 mats is generally better than 1 ?. Lastly are you see doing the 5 mile, or was it 10 everyday.best wishes

Brian, I've had the resomat befor and yes it worked well on my 1210 but it got replaced with a crystal mat. Now, with respects to your questions. I usually stick with one mat as I find VTA problems can sometimes arise which means faffing about with the vertical height of the tonearm. You may also have problems with the two mats not sitting correctly on top of each other, so a record might be needed. It's hard to give honest advice but after messing around with platter mats for quite some time I've come to the conclusions that on my 75 two mats seems to work better than one. But I think it's fun experimenting. Finally, yep the five mile walk is still a daily occurrence. :D

[tapid]

Thanks Andy, yes flaffing around seems to be a continuos theme at this game me thinks, but as you suggest its all part
of this hobby!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXIX - Lenco addiction is worse than meth crack!

Sitting hear tonight listening to the Lenco and some Led Zeppelin as I can't be bothered being boiled half to death with the Sondex & Croft being switched on. I have a single malt in my hand and have started musing what can be done next to the Lenco and after spending a little time over on Lenco Heaven have come up with some new ideas. I've been following the build threads on a few decks and I'm always amazed at what can be done with these excellent little decks. So, the first idea is to dampen the Alphason's tonearm pillar with EVA. It's a cheap material and I have plenty sitting in the workshop. For those of you who want to do more research, fill 'yer boots http://www.castel-engineering.com/en/new-eva-anti-vibration-pads-219.htm I have no information with respects to how well EVA works at dampening but for the sake of a little work in the workshop it could prove a nice cheap improvement. We shall see :eyebrows:.

Secondly I also considered further dampening the underside of both the heavy platters that I'm using, probably with some Dynamat. This has several advantages. Firstly it should theoretically dampen the platter further and further mitigate vibration getting into the cartridge. Secondly it adds a little mass to the platter which again is beneficial for the fly wheel effect on the platter and finally Dynamat has a thin aluminium base which should proof a little extra shielding for the cartridge from EMI (well it possibly could). The Lenco is the only deck that I've ever worked on which seems to better as it's progressively dampened. I'm also considering re-spraying the platters satin black to match the top plate of the deck, again it's only an idea but we shall see.

Finally I've thought long and hard with respects to this upgrade but it could be extremely beneficial. I've been considering buying a new idler wheel. I currently use a 5 holed version which is widely considered the best, but I have one big issue with the idler wheel. I have no idea how old it is and consequently it could be upto 40 years old.
The rubber looks good externally but could be buggered internally. It's also got ~40 years usage and subsequently could have uneven wear so I have plumped to order a new idler wheel. Again, we shall have to see what, if any this wheel brings to the table. I hate using new parts and have been quite pig headed in trying to retain original parts, this is why I refused to get the Frenck motor installed onto the Lenco. From what I can see the Norbert Idler wheel is very sympathetic to the original lenco design, so I'll give it a whirl.

I thought that this deck was finished but it looks like we have a summer of upgrading, foolin' around and having fun experimenting. What else can I say, stay tuned.:wave:

[brian2957]

Interesting ideas Andy . Firstly , I agree with you on the idler wheel replacement . I always wondered if it was one hundred percent . It must also be remembered that the rubber on the idler wheel provided a barrier to the vibration from the motor . Any time the motor touched a part of the turntable I was quite taken aback at how much it vibrated .

Agreed again on the mods you have suggested for the platters , although I would think twice about painting them as you may have difficulty getting the paint to take to those highly polished surfaces .

I don't know the arm Andy but I'm sure any kind of damping will yield good results .

Anyway thanks for keeping this thread updated . Always food for thought and an excellent resource for Lenco modders :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Interesting ideas Andy . Firstly , I agree with you on the idler wheel replacement . I always wondered if it was one hundred percent . It must also be remembered that the rubber on the idler wheel provided a barrier to the vibration from the motor . Any time the motor touched a part of the turntable I was quite taken aback at how much it vibrated .

Agreed again on the mods you have suggested for the platters , although I would think twice about painting them as you may have difficulty getting the paint to take to those highly polished surfaces .

I don't know the arm Andy but I'm sure any kind of damping will yield good results .

Anyway thanks for keeping this thread updated . Always food for thought and an excellent resource for Lenco modders :)

Well I'll be doing some more tweaking and making sure tonearm setup is correct etc. It'll be a little more time before I dampen the tonearm pillar etc. I need to buy some drill bits and a few other bits and pieces. All good fun! The idler wheel is going to take ages before it arrives. I think painting the platters should be easy, just loads of primer, paint and then laquer, should look good. I've just started experimenting with a tripple combination of platter mats and seem to be getting better results! I'll be updating at some point.

[brian2957]

3 mats :eek: Sounds interesting mate .

[Wakefield Turntables]

3 mats :eek: Sounds interesting mate .

Well I think the extra detail I'm hearing is due to one of either 2 things. 1. The extra GIMP mat is helping a little more with the dampening or 2. The extra 2mm of height from the GIMP mat is helping with the VTA of the cartridge. More listening and tweaking/testing over this week I'm afraid.

[helma]

Andrew, regarding the idler wheel - the rubber compound used will change the spectrum of the energy that gets through the point of contact. Even if the Norbert wheel had identical compound to the original, it would be 40+ years younger and thus different :) The Norbert wheel is significantly heavier as well. I have one and I think it's a good wheel, based on the example I have of the original 5-hole metal idler, I wouldn't say it's really better or worse - just slighty different. I did record a noise spectrum of what gets through at one point, and as far as I recall there wasn't significant differences in noise levels, but the spectrum was slightly different. For actual music, I can't say I noticed a difference between the two, so I'm using the new one because I feel more confident in it especially after having to straighten a slight bend in my original wheel. Since your Lenco has gotten way more attention than mine, and probably has lower noise levels all around, I'm really interested in hearing your impressions on the different wheels.

I'm currently using 2 LPs + a mat made of cork/rubber compound for "mat". 2 LPs mainly because I needed the added height for VTA. When I first put an LP under the cork/rubber mat (again, for VTA purposes) I was very surprised to hear noticeably better SQ - slightly lower noise floor and just more clarity overall. Haven't since done any trials or changes, other than adding the second LP, which didn't affect SQ at least in a way that was readily apparent. So I'm not really surprised a two mat approach (or 3? lol) works well with the Lenco.

Btw. what are you using for lubrication in the main bearing and did you do any trials with that? Just asking because instead of getting a new bearing (like I probably should) I was wondering if changing to heavier oil or even grease would do favors to my knackered bearing - I had to polish the shaft myself using hand tools (it was badly oxidized), so tolerances can't be anything like new. After the polishing and replacing the bottom plate it does sound just fine though... as far as I can tell. Original Lenco bearings could be had for peanuts but haven't pulled the trigger on one, because I figure at the point I feel like I need to get the bearing sorted, I might as well get something that is an upgrade on the original.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Kai, i would like to discuss this with you further, can you please send me a PM with your email address.

Thanks

A

Ps I will answer your questions tonight after work when I have a little more time.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Andrew, regarding the idler wheel - the rubber compound used will change the spectrum of the energy that gets through the point of contact. Even if the Norbert wheel had identical compound to the original, it would be 40+ years younger and thus different :) The Norbert wheel is significantly heavier as well. I have one and I think it's a good wheel, based on the example I have of the original 5-hole metal idler, I wouldn't say it's really better or worse - just slighty different. I did record a noise spectrum of what gets through at one point, and as far as I recall there wasn't significant differences in noise levels, but the spectrum was slightly different. For actual music, I can't say I noticed a difference between the two, so I'm using the new one because I feel more confident in it especially after having to straighten a slight bend in my original wheel. Since your Lenco has gotten way more attention than mine, and probably has lower noise levels all around, I'm really interested in hearing your impressions on the different wheels.

I'm currently using 2 LPs + a mat made of cork/rubber compound for "mat". 2 LPs mainly because I needed the added height for VTA. When I first put an LP under the cork/rubber mat (again, for VTA purposes) I was very surprised to hear noticeably better SQ - slightly lower noise floor and just more clarity overall. Haven't since done any trials or changes, other than adding the second LP, which didn't affect SQ at least in a way that was readily apparent. So I'm not really surprised a two mat approach (or 3? lol) works well with the Lenco.

Btw. what are you using for lubrication in the main bearing and did you do any trials with that? Just asking because instead of getting a new bearing (like I probably should) I was wondering if changing to heavier oil or even grease would do favors to my knackered bearing - I had to polish the shaft myself using hand tools (it was badly oxidized), so tolerances can't be anything like new. After the polishing and replacing the bottom plate it does sound just fine though... as far as I can tell. Original Lenco bearings could be had for peanuts but haven't pulled the trigger on one, because I figure at the point I feel like I need to get the bearing sorted, I might as well get something that is an upgrade on the original.

Kai, thanks once again for a very informative post. It's nice to hear that my findings are similar to yours, in fact an awful lot of what you've posted mirrors my own current findings. I now have another idler wheel ordered, so that is three to try!!! You make some very interesting and logical comments about idler wheels approaching 40 years of age. I would love to hear how you managed to measure a spectrum decay through the deck, perhaps you could teach me? I have heard many times that using old LP's can be very effective in making a platter mat. I haven't tried any lubricants just the one supplied with the Jolyon bearing that I'm using. That's a whole new area of experimentation :D

[brian2957]

I tried quite a few lubricants in my GL75 beating and settled on fully synthetic motor oil .

[Wakefield Turntables]

I tried quite a few lubricants in my GL75 beating and settled on fully synthetic motor oil .

Your grease experiment worked really well. TBH oil is pretty low on my list of things to do with the deck altough I've not ruled it out.

[brian2957]

Your grease experiment worked really well. TBH oil is pretty low on my list of things to do with the deck altough I've not ruled it out.

I was concerned that the grease was a bit too thick Andy . The bearing and platter spun longer with the motor oil and to my ears was every bit as quiet . As ever though YMMV .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Latest modification!

http://i.imgur.com/MXNagsRh.jpg#Yi2av

[brian2957]

Nice . Where did you get that one from Andy ?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Chap over on LH I think this might have been a prototype but it's carbon fibre some I'm hoping the stiffness will mitigate vibration getting into the platter.

[brian2957]

Chap over on LH I think this might have been a prototype but it's carbon fibre some I'm hoping the stiffness will mitigate vibration getting into the platter.

Yes that will help Andy . Problem is it's difficult to ascertain the quality of the rubber and its fitness for purpose , however I'm pretty sure that new will help enormously . I look forward to your findings on this mate . The idler wheel is a key component of the GL75.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XXXXXX

I've been comparing my Alphason tonearm / Shure M55E (Jico neoSAS) stylus against my SME V / Ortofon Cadenza black. MC v MM, Direct
Drive 1210 v Lenco L75 idler technology. I also decided to slip my "GIMP" platter mat under the Cork/Garrard mat combo just to see
what would happen. Well I'm pleased to say that I have had yet another small leap in sonic improvement with the little Lenco. The
tripple platter mat configuration seems to working very well and I don't feel inclined to change it any time soon and I also can't
be bothered to trial any more platter mat configurations (I'm all platter'd out)! The new platter mat configuration is giving me
oodles more detail, the timbral quality is now the best I've ever heard from this deck and this is across all genre's of music. There
seems to be poise and stability to the sound stage everything is very well placed, plenty of seperation bewteen the instruments.

The Lenco to some extents is now giving very little away in some areas when making vinyl comparisons against my other decks. It looses
out against the SME V in total low end bass grunt. It's not quite as incisive or forensic as the 1210 deck by it can sure boogey. I
listened to Deep Purple "Made in Japan" on both decks and in some instances could not tell the difference between the decks. I'd be
hard pressed to explain why the deck is now performing at it's current level. I can only think one of two things, firstly the extra
height of the "GIMP" mat has further optimised the VTA of the cartridge and tonearm, secondly, the extra "GIMP" mat may have added
additional dampening and this has been beneficial for the cartridge/platter interface or thirdly it could be both things that have helpd. I'm not really that bothered TBH. The Lenco gives me immense satisfaction.

The Alphason tonearm should be getting it's very own bespoke custom anti-skate weight. It's taken quite some time to find the correct
specifications but that's all now been sorted. I placed my order and hopefully a package from Germany should be arriving in the next
few weeks. This should give the Alphason / Shure M55E combo better tracking than the current setup and hopefully another lift up the
sonic ladder. The tonearm pillar should also be getting some additional dampening in the form of an EVA pillar cover, I still have to
buy a drill bit and a little modding but should hopefully have something prepared in the next few days.

Finally I ordered another new Idler wheel today, so I have an orginal heavy 5 wheeler, Norbert's new heavy 5 wheeler and another carbon fibre jobbie. All good fun and should be an improvement over the 40 year old original!! I must admit that my original wheel had a slight wobble and still does but it is extremely small and can only be seen on film and in slow motion (yes I did this). The idler wheels should be straight and eliminate this problem. You can't really notice any effects with the soundstage but I'm hoping to have a small positive effect with the new idler. The rubber compound on each wheel will different which may mean a new soundstage presentation.


As ever, stay tuned. :wave:

[brian2957]

Sounds like the culmination of all the mods Andy . You've trialled every one of your mods to make sure it was an improvement and not just a sideways step . I have to admire your indefatigability in your search for the perfect GL75 .

If I give you my address would you mind sending it to me :D Or if you insist I can come to yours and pick it up :)

Wonderful thread BTW :)

[smithie]

dont know if this is amy good...but sure looks pretty...shame it would be hidden:lol:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-IDLER-WHEEL-LENCO-TURNTABLE-L75-L78-MADE-IN-ITALY-BY-AUDIOSILENTE-SHAFT-2-45/261711035751?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D43781%26meid%3D977933886b8841b888f01449866 701cb%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3D ag%26sd%3D262107354365

loving your trials/mods/experiments and write ups andrew,along with this massive thread and all the points of views and findings...great work:cool:

regards
smithie

[Wakefield Turntables]

Sounds like the culmination of all the mods Andy . You've trialled every one of your mods to make sure it was an improvement and not just a sideways step . I have to admire your indefatigability in your search for the perfect GL75 .

If I give you my address would you mind sending it to me :D Or if you insist I can come to yours and pick it up :)

Wonderful thread BTW :)

Thansk as ever Brian. ITs just a matter of now trying new stuff and seeing what happens with respects to how the deck sounds. The next big thing is probably going to be a new plinth of my own design so it looks like going through every thread on LH Dedicated to the subject and then cobbling something together.



dont know if this is amy good...but sure looks pretty...shame it would be hidden:lol:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-IDLER-WHEEL-LENCO-TURNTABLE-L75-L78-MADE-IN-ITALY-BY-AUDIOSILENTE-SHAFT-2-45/261711035751?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D43781%26meid%3D977933886b8841b888f01449866 701cb%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3D ag%26sd%3D262107354365

loving your trials/mods/experiments and write ups andrew,along with this massive thread and all the points of views and findings...great work:cool:

regards
smithie

Paul, again many thanks. I hope the thread helps you on your journey.

[helma]

Kai, thanks once again for a very informative post. It's nice to hear that my findings are similar to yours, in fact an awful lot of what you've posted mirrors my own current findings. I now have another idler wheel ordered, so that is three to try!!! You make some very interesting and logical comments about idler wheels approaching 40 years of age. I would love to hear how you managed to measure a spectrum decay through the deck, perhaps you could teach me? I have heard many times that using old LP's can be very effective in making a platter mat. I haven't tried any lubricants just the one supplied with the Jolyon bearing that I'm using. That's a whole new area of experimentation :D

Sorry for the late reply, forgot to check this thread. I put a block of something against the deck and then rest the stylus on that, record to computer and then analyze the file. If you plan on comparing two different recordings make sure to record them using same settings and not touching the volume in between. I use Audacity, so it has a "plot spectrum" tool readily available under the "Analyze" menu on top. It's a free program available for most operating systems. Another way is to record a period of silence from an actual record, but then of course you also get groove noise. I don't consider either method highly scientific necessarily, I suppose what material, hollow/not hollow etc. you use to rest the stylus against will affect things but I didn't worry about that. No lives at stake after all :) Same with using an actual record, if you use same part of the album every time then the only thing that changes is whatever gets through from the deck and while there are 'variables' I think should be good enough for satisfying some DIY curiosity. Usually your ears tell you this stuff anyway, but when comparing idler wheels for example, even if you do no plotting of spectrums it's very handy to have recorded sound files so you can listen back to back without having to take the time to change the wheel.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The deck is now completely dismantled again and being fitted with some new bits. :drugs:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXI - We have the technology to rebuild her!

I'm writing this up as I wait for the primer to dry!! I decided to spray both my heavy platters the same colour as the '75s top plate
a colout known as Fiat Black which is available from Halfords. This little job has cost me £26 and I've bought paint, primer and
laquer, a similar job at a paintshop would be a couple of hundred quid, more money saved on new mods!! OK, so the spraying of the
top plates takes a few days but that's ok as I'm following the ethos of the build which is to save money and do things as cheaply as
possible and then buy killer upgrades with the money saved. The respray job isn't going to improve the decks performance and is more
to fit with my cosmetic tastes but this does beg the question, does the paint dampen the platter? I'm 99.99% certain that some of the
big audio companies bull$#!t us into believing that paint can dampen a chasis or a speaker cabinet, me, well this is supposed to be
a reference Lenco so I'm just following the example set up by these big companies 8-)) (yes I'm pulling your legs). I'm all for
the idea of every little bit helps but dampening a platter with primer and paint and trying to notice a sonic difference is beyond
these middle aged ears. I think the psychological effect of knowing that you've got a nice looking deck goes a long way when your
spinning your favourite vinyl and adds to the pleasure of the experience.


So, for you lot that like pictures, some more to update you on the decks progress.



I got the lads round last night

20838

They did this to my platters

2083920841


The paint job is not quite as good as would like but it's ok for now. Painting the platters and the deck has been a very boring and
time consuming process. Sometimes having to wait 24hours for the paint to dry or the laquer to harden. Each platter took about 2 days
to prepare so you can imagine that I'm very loathed to keeping moving them around, I don't want to chip the paint work!
The '75 does look rather moody now and TBH I think aesthetically I've found my favourite colour.

Now, for something completely different!

20842

The one and only new Carbon fibre idler wheel. This has been fitted with the Wer idler wheel locking nut and I can honestly say that the idler wheel has NO wobble whatsoever. This idler wheel as completely screwed up the decks RPM and we are now running fast by about 2% so the idler wheel arm will need realigning for stable speed. This has fetched up something which should have been fixed LONG ago but being a little idle (like the pun?) I couldn't be arsed to fix it first time so this little idler wheel give me the kick up the arse to repair the top plate.

20840

I've now completely stripped the top plate and resprayed it again and this time the finish is much better. I also filled in a large gaping hole under the top plate which I left behind when I used to have the speed selector fitted and fixed to 33rpm. This is now gone, so whilst the top plate is off it got filled and I also decided to do some more little mods which I shall detail in the next upgrade.


As always, stay tuned..... :wave:

[smithie]

looking good there andy
love your dedication and determination,along with the insight,mods and pictures....makes me want to rip mine apart and follow your lead:D
carry on the good work and well done once again...certainly a credit to you and your efforts.

regards
smithie

[brian2957]

Mmm... yes I like to see piccies Andy :) Black platter not for me but looking good nonetheless . I would be surprised if the paint didn't dampen the platter ever so slightly .

That idler wheel looks awesome mate , it's a shame that it won't be on show :)

Yes the little idler wheel conversion is tiny but effective . Just shows how it can affect the speed .

I look forward to the pictures of the fully assembled unit again :)

[Jimbo]

That's a funky idler wheel!:thumbsup:

[Barry]

Shouldn't it be "The Reference Lenco Pt LXI"? :eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Shouldn't it be "The Reference Lenco Pt LXI"? :eyebrows:

Smarty pants L=50! Post now corrected.

[Barry]

You'll need to correct post 981 as well! :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

You'll need to correct post 981 as well! :D

:rfl:No way man, gimme a break!

[Wakefield Turntables]

looking good there andy
love your dedication and determination,along with the insight,mods and pictures....makes me want to rip mine apart and follow your lead:D
carry on the good work and well done once again...certainly a credit to you and your efforts.

regards
smithie

Thanks. The new paint job looks better and I've tweeked a few more things, details in the update. :eyebrows:


Mmm... yes I like to see piccies Andy :) Black platter not for me but looking good nonetheless . I would be surprised if the paint didn't dampen the platter ever so slightly .

That idler wheel looks awesome mate , it's a shame that it won't be on show :)

Yes the little idler wheel conversion is tiny but effective . Just shows how it can affect the speed .

I look forward to the pictures of the fully assembled unit again :)

Hopefully I should have something done before I go on Holiday! It's part assembled already. Just tweeking a little.


That's a funky idler wheel!:thumbsup:

Thanks. I thought so when I saw it.

[Wakefield Turntables]

We are approaching 1000 posts to this thread. I have a mega update planned for the 1000th post!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Now spinning some Sabbath, deck sounds good!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXII - More buggering about with isolation and vibration supression. :eyebrows:

The road to Lenco paradise is never simple and quite often frustrating. This upgrade has been one of those which tried my patience
and also meant a rebuild of the Lenco. The new carbon fibre idler wheel has meant that the timing of the Lenco idler wheel has been
slightly screwed up in that the platter runs about 2% quicker than it should so this means a whole new re-alignment of the idler wheel
arm to get things spinning properly. The new idler wheel seems to take a little longer to get the platter upto speed. So, I thought
bugger it why not rebuild the deck again. I decided to also respray the top plate and get the deck functioning as good as I could.
I also added to the tonearm pillar dampening whilst the deck was dismantled. This leads to a dilemma of not knowing if a mod has
had any effect on the sonic performance, but that's part of the fun I suppose! I'm still waiting for the counter weight from Germany
and this is a little stumbling block as the full performance of the Alphason tonearm is still not being fully realised, ho hum!

I also decided to finally get around to filling in quite a sizeable hole on the underside of the top plate which was left over from
when I used to the speed selection components installed on the underside of the Lenco. I also decided to do a little more work on
vibration supression in the form of trying to stop vibration getting into the tonearm from the top plate. I decided to further dampen
down the on/off switch pillar on the underside of the top plate. My logic had always been quite simple, it's made from brass and is
already stiff and pretty immune to vibration and I never really worried about it. But, after finding some suitable rubber bungs I
decided to mod one and then fit it over the pillar. It's now completely enveloped in thick rubber which should make vibration
transmission from the top plate into the on/off switch that little bitter harder, this should in theory be helpful for a reduction
in vibration transmission into the idler wheel arm. I've included a few pictures so that you can see what I'm waffling on about.

So this is the gaping hole on the underside of the top plate, and later after it was filled.

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The on/off switch pillar on the underside of the top plate without and with rubber isolation plug.

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I also decided to turn my attention to the tonearm again and I decided to make a 5mm EVA sheath to sit snugly over the tonearm pillar
mount. The whole thing took about 1 hour to make if you include glue drying times. I bored the hole out with a 19mm wood drill bit
and then used a grinder to remove excess material. It fits the Alphason tonearm pillar very snugly and matches the colour of the top
plate. The mounting of the tonearm on the underside of the top plinth was another area that really annoyed me, I'd never really been
happy with my first attempt of just x3 washers and nuts. This time I tried an additional two methods of mounting the tonearm, the
first attempt was to use some sorbothane washers that I fabricated but these turned out to be too flimsy. The second attmept was to
modify a couple more bungs and then mount them on the threads coming from the tonearm, I then tightend the mounting nuts into the
bungs so this achieved a couple of things. Firstly I gained greater vibartion suppression by completely enveloping the mounting
thread and nut in thick rubber and secondly the tonearm is more securely mounted so hopefully mounting the tonearm more tightly to the
external surface of the top plate and improving the coupling bewteen the two surfaces (well that's the theory).

The start of the tonearm pillar sheath and some isolation grommets I made from sorbothane.

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The anti-skate weight is yet to make an appearence from Germany so the tonearm is still not functioning to full capacity. The whole
deck will need to be set up again from scratch and then the whole process of assessing these tweaks begins. Hopefully another rung
up the sonic ladder.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Reference Lenco Pt LXII - Pt II - More pictures.

The deck got completely stripped of it's old paint job and I filled in some more holes and reworked over some old filler.

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This pictures shows my attemps at using sorbothane and nuts to try and add a little additional vibrational dampening to the tonearm.

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This was my second attempt at a design to try and isolate the tonearm from vibration. This time a mixture of sorbothane and rubber.

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This is the finished EVA sheath which now lives on the tonearm mounting pillar.

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This is my deck as of tonight 12/7/2017.

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[Wakefield Turntables]

Right thats it post 1000. I'm off to away now so all have a good time and I'll catch up in a week, now doubt fresh with ideas for the deck!