LENCO - GL75 Project [Archive] - Page 5

helma

18-07-2017, 23:29

Well... tonight I've been playing with the 2nd Lenco I got today :o Totally unexpected turn of events, but saw one up for sale with a Jelco made tonearm for a price I figured would be a bargain if the arm is in good nick and couldn't refuse. The arm had a Sumiko headshell, so my best guess is it's one of the Sumiko models, but no idea which one it might be. When I went to check it out I noticed there was quite a bit of play in the bearings for vertical movement, but I took it home anyway and after a quick adjustment it seems the bearings might be fine after all. At least they are not totally knackered but haven't really finetuned them yet. My 1st Lenco I believe was an old club deck and it didn't have the original plinth nor the plinth. Firing this new one up for the first time I wondered who turned on the loudness... at first I thought it's the arm, but bypassing the springs cured that. Man those springs do horrible things to the sound and on top of that they are also piss-poor at isolation. The Lenco implementation seems even way worse than what Dual did and even the Duals perform way better without them. I guess if you're looking for a bloomy "vintage sound" leaving the springs in action might do the trick :) But for everyone else I recommend first thing is get rid of them and you're already more than half-way there, the rest I feel is just more and more of the good thing :)

I suppose I'll need to read through this thread again and see if there's a tweak or two there I might wanna borrow :D I've got some ideas for a plinth but we'll see. It's a cleaner specimen than my first one and since I already have the other one I hope I can be a bit more patient with this one as there shouldn't be any hurry to get it playing.

Wakefield Turntables

19-07-2017, 12:30

Wakefield Turntables

22-07-2017, 20:00

Tonights update - The Reference Lenco pt LXIII - Quiet Reflection.

The deck is sounding truly good even in a very biased way I say so myself. I'm rather content after doing some businss in Jersey, I have a nice single malt in one hand and a little black sabbath in the background. The Lenco is now playing through the latest bit of kit to grace my floor. It's the EAR 834 clone phonostage and very very good it sounds too. I have some nice Mullard ECC82's to play with later. Spending time on Jersey has meant I've been able to give the deck more thought and ponder where we can go to further improve it's performance. Well after several nights of reflection I've managed to jot down 4-5 pages of notes on A5 paper. So, it looks like the thread will be alive until 2018 at least. The deck will probably undergo more iterations and I may even produce 2 decks to do side by side comparisons, so it looks like I'm having more fun with the deck. I have managed to purlion one small upgrade for the deck and that's the correct size and weight anti-skate weight for the Alphason tonearm, all for a paltry £7.50 and delivered from Germany, certainly beats the £20 I once got quoted from a well known company in this country. The little Shure M55E tracks like a good'un and is certainly producing the sonic goods. I'd have to say that things have once again improved a slight smidge. Bass sounds to have gained a little authority, micro detail seems to be slightly improved, low volume level listening sessions are now very well detailed, drum work appears to have a little more snap. It's certainly an exciting time in Lencoville as there appear to be two more bearings to try. I've asked for details and to be honest I'm really tempted. Bearings on the Lenco usually set you back less than £150 unlike the £750+ for something made for the Garrard :rolleyes:, so with prices that cheap you can quite literally try a bearing and then flog on, sure you'll loose money but that's part of the hobby. The Jolly bearing I have sitting in the deck is bloody good so anything new purchased would have to be seriously well designed. Ahhhh, I could go on, so I guess it's time to say good night for another week.

As ever, stay tuned. :wave:

brian2957

22-07-2017, 20:37

Jimbo

22-07-2017, 21:30

You guys keeping the Lenco GL75 projects alive, great stuff!:thumbsup:

I have finished my original condition deck but sometimes ponder what a better tonearm might do? ::eyebrows:

Which gave you the best results Andy?

Wakefield Turntables

23-07-2017, 18:24

Lucky beggar , I'm at work for yet another nightshift . I'm back on the Lenco trail again Andy . Received it yesterday and it's running quite nicely :) I had the idler wheel upgrade ready to be fitted ( duly done ) and I have a PEEK thrust pad and Tungston ball bearing waiting to be fitted when I have the time . So this thread has taken on a new meaning again .

Do you happen to have a link to these new bearings Andy ?

Enjoy your single malt mate :)

Ha! Sorry old bean, I'm back to the grind tomorrow.

Now some links.

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=26872.0;topicseen
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=27436.0
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=25857.0

You guys keeping the Lenco GL75 projects alive, great stuff!:thumbsup:

I have finished my original condition deck but sometimes ponder what a better tonearm might do? ::eyebrows:

Which gave you the best results Andy?

I tried the original which was ok, I then had an old Technics arm which again was ok. I always fancied the Alphason arm and after a little while found one. It had a few bits missing which I've had to had specially made and then I had it fully serviced and rewired (which it didn't need). Now I have a deck which can compete with a SME V in a large number of areas. Sometimes the Alphason wins, sometimes it's a close second. I'd say the Alphason gives me 85% of a SME V but for £2250 less, I think I spent about £750 on the Alphason.

Jimbo

23-07-2017, 19:05

Thanks, I like the look of the Alphason but they are rare beasts.

brian2957

23-07-2017, 19:19

Ha! Sorry old bean, I'm back to the grind tomorrow.

Now some links.

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=26872.0;topicseen
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=27436.0
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=25857.0

I tried the original which was ok, I then had an old Technics arm which again was ok. I always fancied the Alphason arm and after a little while found one. It had a few bits missing which I've had to had specially made and then I had it fully serviced and rewired (which it didn't need). Now I have a deck which can compete with a SME V in a large number of areas. Sometimes the Alphason wins, sometimes it's a close second. I'd say the Alphason gives me 85% of a SME V but for £2250 less, I think I spent about £750 on the Alphason.

Nightshift tonight again mate :rolleyes:

Thanks for the links Andy .

Wakefield Turntables

23-07-2017, 21:19

Thanks, I like the look of the Alphason but they are rare beasts.

Get in contact with Jamie123 I think he was selling his??? Could be wrong but worth a punt.

Wakefield Turntables

30-07-2017, 16:28

Tonights Update - The Lenco Reference Pt LXIII - A review of the new Carbon fibre Idler wheel

The deck is sounding extremely well. I have had chance to review several genre's of music and listened to much music in coming
to my conclusions. The new carbon idler wheel that I installed has been a big improvement over the old "heavy 5 holed" idler wheel
that I had installed in the deck over the last year. The differences are not massive but well worth the 36 Euros that I paid for it.
The deck was a fairly even handed performer before the last set of tweaks and I would now say that the deck has changed. It's now
more ruthless in that it dosen't flatter old/poorly recorded material. Give it a good piece of vinyl and it sings give it something
less than and It'll show up the short comings very quickly. You soon learn decent vinyl over poor with this deck.

OLD STYLEE

20996

SEXY NEW STYLEEE

20997

The PRaT has also improved and now sounds very good indeed. Again, not massive but enough that you can clearly hear a little more
cohesion to the soundstage. The main area of improvement seems to be micro detail. Listening to Led Zeppelin II recently revealed
much more note decay on several tracks and then there was the magical experience of hearing something new on a beloved album that
you've not heard before. I found myself looking at the sound stage a couple of times after I realised I'd heard something new!
Listening to Public Service Broadcast latest album which is some area's has glorious 80's analog synth shows the deck has now problems
matching my Technics 1210 for precision and decay of the notes. The album has many samples from 1950's and 1960's documentaries about
the decay of the welsh mining industry and every single sample is pin-point centre of the soundstage whilst a wide immersive swaive of
sound imerses it, I hear a horn section slightly off left centre, drums dead centre, bass slightly forward to the left with accoustic
guitar slightly off centre right. I have no trouble dissecting the sound stage and easily being able to follow any instrument I
wish to follow. Bass on this album is deep and well defined, snare work on the drums is crisp.

The noise floor on all the vinyl I tested has been extremely low with hardly any hint of surface noise from the various records I
tried on the deck. The volume has been quite high so lower level listening benefitted even further with complete silence in most
instances of new, clean, well looked after vinyl. All this testing of vinyl on the current '75 leaves me with an interesting
dilemma. I have 3 MM phonostages. I have the MM stage which lives in my ATC preamp, the MM stage in my Croft Epoch amp and a MM
stage on my Sugden Masterclass phonostage. So, which is best? Well, I have no idea. All my testing has been done in the Masterclass
MM phonostage so it looks like more fun to be had with listening to more vinyl through the other MM stages, lives hard eh!!!!

I've also noticed that the deck seems to sound better at slightly lower voltage levels going into the motor. I usually like to listen
at 220V but recently I've had some very nice listening sessions between 200 - 215V going into the motor. This can't be a bad thing as a
lower voltage usually means slightly less vibration coming from the motor and then subsequently into the top plate and then into the
platter. Again this may be an area of optimising that could be exploited to get the optimum from the deck. Maybe I could spend a few
listening sessions experimenting with differing voltages and seeing which is best. Another free tweak which might get more out of the
deck! I think the improvement in sonics can be probably put down to a culmination of the new idler wheel and some more isolation around
the tonearm mounting and the tonearm pillar. The isolation I added to the on/off switch and the additional filling in of the top plate
probably does nothing but they certainly don't detract from the listening experience so I'll leave 'em alone!

As always, stay tuned.....:wave:

brian2957

30-07-2017, 17:11

Wakefield Turntables

30-07-2017, 18:32

Back on the GL75 modification trail again Andy :) Was the carbon fibre wheel a one - off Andy , it looks very interesting . This is next on my list http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lenco-NEW-IDLER-WHEEL-LENCO-L75-L78-SHAFT-2-45-PULEGGIA-LENCO-L78-75-2-45/251425522011?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 . TBH I think the idler wheel can make a big difference to the performance of the deck .
Can you please tell me what combination of mat(s) you are using again ?
Sounds like you're getting excellent results with the modded GL75 , has it become your first choice turntable yet ? :)
I've decided to treat myself to a good phono stage , so have ordered a Firebottle OTP . More to come on that :)
The GL75 is looking very nice BTW . Did you ever get around to buying the other bearings ?

Yep. Lenco modding is probably more addicitive than any illegal drugs! The idler wheel came up for sale over on LH and I don't think it was a one-of, I think they must have been produced but I'm not sure who made them, I can't help here, you'll have to do some thread digging over on LH. I agree with you fully and think that a new wheel is a must with these old decks. Most have 40+ years usage so the rubber can never be as good new and this does have a massive effect on deck performance as I have found out. The mat situation has changed again, you'll have to wait until next week for a new review of a tripple mat setup! Previously I used base mat (connected to platter) the gimp map, then a 3mm cork mat and then a Garrard 301 mat. This has now changed! The Lenco is getting the most usage but I use different decks for different music styles. I usually save the Garrard and valve system for weekend Jazz sessions, the technics for Metal and Prog, the Lenco is just such a good deck that I can happily listen to it all day and save the Cartridges and valves on the other systems! My phonostage situation has also changed. I've been listening to the Lenco via the MM stage on my Sugden Masterclass phonostage until I decided to try something a little different, mainly a Chinese EAR 834P close and I have to say I'm gobsmacked, it's one of the best MM stages I've ever heard, not the best but it's certainly up there. The Lenco and the Shure M55E/JICO neoSAS stylus setup have honestly never sounded better the bottleneck in the system was the Sugden MM phonostage. I'm now absorbing all EAR834 threads over on LH like a sponge so I think the Lenco has even further to go :eek:. The Firebottle is a very fine phonostage, I only heard the first one and there are now many newer versions which have been released and upgraded. I'd like to hear some more Firebottle stuff and is on my list of potential purchases. Cosmetically the Lenco does look better and I'm happy for the moment but I'm in the process of producing a newer design to the top plate (more in a future update)! I never did buy the new bearing, it's on the list of potential future updates.

brian2957

30-07-2017, 19:15

Thanks Andy . Yes you can play about with GL75s til the cows come home :)

I have just fitted a new mains cable and phono cable to mine . I overhauled the bearing , fitting new ball bearing and PEEK thrust pad .

Next on the agenda is the idler wheel which I linked to as I have already fitted the little idler wheel modification .

Like you the GL75 will probably keep me happy for years :D

I look forward to the next edition Andy .

Wakefield Turntables

30-07-2017, 19:23

brian2957

30-07-2017, 19:26

Haven't decided yet Andy , I'm just enjoying the music at the minute . If I do decide to '' fully '' mod the GL75 I know where to look :)

Wakefield Turntables

30-07-2017, 19:48

Go on you know you want to! :wowzer:

brian2957

30-07-2017, 20:01

Hah ! I want to do a lot of things , I think I'm havin an ' old age ' crisis :lol:

Wakefield Turntables

06-08-2017, 17:26

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco pt LXIV - The King is dead, long live the King ? Or is he? Er, yes he is.. 8-(

The Original Garrard 301 platter mat has been an integral part of the Lenco Reference system for the last year and it has doggedly
defended itself against all newcomers and found itself working as a team member on my platter with other mats when spinning vinyl
on the balmy summer evenings and cold long winter nights. But, it is with sad regret that I inform you all dear readers that the
king is dead, long live the king! So, how did all this occur? Well, I managed to snag a SME 3009 tonearm at a decent price and then
got a Technics SL150 turntable for free! The deck came with a rather nice platter mat and then a lightbulb went off in my bonce! The
new mat is in better cosmetic condition than my Garrard mat and is slightly thicker, probably 5mm whilst the Garrard mat is probably
3mm, certainly the spindle is rapidly being lost under the plethora of mats sitting on my Lenco platter!

Listening experiments took part over a lazy Friday afternoon with no other family member present and with no alcohol (but plenty of
cups of tea)! I'm not going to detail every single thing that happened over the afternoon but suffice to say my main findings after listening to numerous records and genre's are that the current mix of mats (Gimp/Cork/Tehcnics) has produced more of an improvement
in the following areas :-

More ballsy bass drum presentation.
Greater definition of Echo on vocals
Slightly leaner, less bloated on vocals.
Greater microdetail and ability to see into the mix
Drums appear to have more attack and sustain
Bass appears very marginally improved.

This may look like quite a marked improvement but I have to say that in the Garrard's defence it doggedly defended itself and only
just lost out, I'm talking maybe fractions, if you had to give a percentage, maybe 2-3% better??? Yep, itself a pointless
quantification as it measures nothing but I feel that the deck has slightly improved. Trust me, the Garrard mat is going nowhere and
shall still remain a cherished member of staff in my vinyl replay kit.The deck has now undergone quite a few mods over the last
2 months, a new idler wheel, a new phonostage, and yet another platter mat change. The deck is supposed to be a "Reference" and its these small improvements which keep advancing the design of the deck. There are many more small tweaks on the horizon for the deck
and indeed some rather large ones! I shall over the next few updates detail just what I intend doing to the deck. The deck has it's new anti-skate weight
installed as well and I think this could have added to the improvements I noticed. I've added a couple of photo's showing the new anti-skate weight and how the deck now looks with the new mat.

New anti-bias weight.

21057

The new reference platter mat.

21058

OK, stay tuned for more modding antics..... :wave:

karma67

06-08-2017, 17:32

did you do the bias line that long for a reason?

Wakefield Turntables

06-08-2017, 18:27

did you do the bias line that long for a reason?

No I over estimated it's length, it dosent have any impact on the sonics.

Wakefield Turntables

13-08-2017, 18:56

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco pt LXV - Dr. Livinsgstone I presume, or further adventures into Lenco modding.

So, my Jersey break did me the world of good and I had time to really go over the deck with a fine tooth comb. So some of the areas I "may" experiment with are :-

1. Re-wiring the motor to 110v and using a step up transformer to see if this improves sonics. The idea is to produce less vibration and thus less entering into the top-plate, bearing, platter and ultimately the cartridge.

2. Better designed baring brace. This is to try and improve on the coupling of the bearing and the top plate. Again another gambit to combat vibration.

3. A better plinth design with decoupling of the tonearm and motor. :zzz:yet again another method of limiting vibration. I should also be able to add more mass into the plinth. I intend to design a tighter fitting plinth and also increase the contact area bewteen the top plate and the plinth.

4. Newly designed top plate. I should be able to fill in more of the top plate due to some new work I'm doing on the idler arm.

5. Newly optimised idler arm mount. I'm planning a re-design of the idler arm mount. Should be good fun when I get around to it.

6. Better cable sheilding. Probably dosent add anything to the decks performance but you never ever can tell!

7. Experiments into decoupling the motor and reducing db's noise. Another trawl of Lenco Heaven has fetched up some interesting ideas and the technology to measure db levels in the plinth, platter and bearing is now more easily available so we could be messing around with these for some time.

Still lots to be done and this thread will probably extend into 2018. All these mods will go into Version 3 of my Reference Lenco. These mods are listed in no particular order and will probably be done on a whim depening upon what I feel like doing and finances! I'm in the middle of a Goldring 99 restoration so the poor old '75 has had take a back burner for a we while whilst I finish it off. I also need to spend some time on my Garrard 301, it's not had any serious work done for quite some time and the lessons learned from the 75 will be put to good use but thats another deck and another thread! :eyebrows:

brian2957

13-08-2017, 19:43

All good stuff again Andy . When I did some work on the GL75 I mistakenly let the motor touch the plinth briefly and was very surprised at the how much the motor vibrated . If I was going down the same road reducing the motor vibration would be my first priority . I've read about reducing the voltage to 110V and it looks very interesting . I will be watching this experiment with interest .
Unfortunately I don't have the work area , the time , or the skill , to carry out the work which you're planning to do mate . I did replace the phono leads with VDH shielded cable , and the mains cable and it made a difference IMO .
That's you got three turntables in the workshop now Andy , enjoy yersel :)

Wakefield Turntables

20-08-2017, 19:59

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXVI - 'Avin a look under the 'ud.

There are plenty of things to keep me busy at the moment when it comes to all things Lenco and the old 75 has had to go on the back burner for a wee while. I've been slowly getting things together so that we can demonstrate some meaningful measurement to our experimentations. I bought a HFN test record (the latest 2017) so I should now be able to measure bearing rumble and hopefully changes to the bearing like oils, greases, bracing etc. I now have a copy of audacity installed on the laptop and a decibel meter. The decibel meter will be useful to see how mods to the motor might have an impact on how motor noise can be influenced by different mounting materials, things like adding dynamat. I can already tell how accurately the platter spins so I should be able to produce some little mini reports as these updates progress. I also now have two top plates which have been modified so swapping between the two will mean that small mods can be assessed to see if they have been beneficial. But like all things audio it's really the ears which dictate what sound good. I've been very lucky so far when modding the '75 as most things seem to have improved the decks performance as we've progressed over the previous months but frustratingly I've not been able to justify (or try to explain) why these mods have worked. I'm hoping that this going to change. The first measured experiments will be to do with increased top plate rigidity and mass. Should be fun, then maybe some expermentation with better clamping, coupling and dampening of the idler arm mounting. As ever..... Stay tuned. :wave:

brian2957

20-08-2017, 21:10

Mmm... this sounds interesting Andy . It will be interesting to explain changes in SQ scientifically as well as in listening tests . Although your bearing is different to mines it shouldn't be too hard to implement your recommendations if you find an optimal combination for oil / grease Andy . I look forward to your findings mate :)

Wakefield Turntables

21-08-2017, 07:31

Brian,

the test results will only really be for a bit of fun and just to Demonstrate the results from various materials and recommended tweaks. The test equipment and workshop are hardly world class. My garage and a few bits bought from eBay. I'm looking at getting a vibrometer shortly to experiment with the effects of coupling and decoupling and provide some interesting lessons on protecting vibration and resonance getting into the cartridge.

brian2957

21-08-2017, 07:36

I then look forward to the arrival of more sophisticated measuring equipment Andy :D

Seriously though , I still regards many of your posts as interesting and have tried out a couple of your suggestions :)

i still really like the GL75 in stock form but I know through this thread that there are quite a few covert improvements which can be applied without changing the appearance of the turntable .

Wakefield Turntables

27-08-2017, 20:03

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXVII - Measurin' up.

I bought a cheapo decibel meter the other day, accurate to 0.1 db and I decided to have a quick listen under the hood to ascertain how much noise the old Lenco motor kicks out. So, ambient noise levels in quiet urban areas reach approx 45db (accorinding to the net). My listening room measures approx 41db. I had the decibel meter not more than 3" away from the motor and I got a consistant reading of +/- 43.5db. So, the motor on the Reference Lenco kicks out ~2.5db which is bloody quiet. This isn;t quite as good as the Garrard 301 which I own which seems to kick out 42.5-43.0db which is slightly lower. I have no idea why the Lenco motor only kicks out 2.5-3.0db would imagine that it's probably down to decent motor springs, decent rebuild of the motor and extensive useage of varied materials in the decks construction. These measurement are useful to look at the decks performance and I would assume that a lower decibel level would mean a lower vibrational level through the motor and maybe less vibrational energy being dumped into the plinth? I have no idea, maybe one day I should look at this. My understanding is quite simplistic and I would assume that it's beneficial to try and get the db level down as far as possible. So, this begs the question does a specific db level generate a specific Hz frequency which may be negatively beneficial to the Lenco's function? This is certainly an area which begs for more research. The other area of interest has been the bearings performance and I must confess that even owning a 2017 180g version of HFN test disc and an installed version of audicity has still not roused me from my lethargy, so maybe the next week or two may produce some results. The Goldring 99 restoration has halted the progression of the '75 but I'm hoping to produce my final modified version of the '75's top plate over the next few weeks and it should be quite interesting to assess the vibrational characteristics of the Lenco as it is now and then with a fresh rebuild with a new moddded top plate. I need to by a vibrometer to achieve this but for the time being I'm enjoying the deck. OK, enough for tonight, as ever stay tuned..... :fingers:

Wakefield Turntables

03-09-2017, 19:36

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXVIII - The Future

The '75 has been rather lonely of late due to a Goldring 99 but I'm glad to say that the 99 is now on the back burner for a little while whilst I wait for some things to be delivered. I've already started on the latest top plate modifications which should add additional stiffness and mass which hopefully nukes those naughty vibrations a little more efficiently. I'm also designing and building a new plinth :idea: and It'll take into consideration the logic of coupling the bottom of the top plate to the plinth by increasing surface area and again hopefully spreading vibration over a much wider area. The motor will be decouple on its own mount and so will the tonearm. I'm going to purchase a vibrometer and hopefully should be able to start and measure just how the various bits of the deck are affected by vibration. I'll probably produce a whole set of readings for the deck in it's current configuration and then again when the newly designed top plate, plinth and decouple motor/tonarm configuration goes into service. So, work starts tomorrow and I'll post some pictures as I get time.

brian2957

03-09-2017, 21:13

Look forward to this Andy , especially the work you're planning to do to the motor :)

Wakefield Turntables

05-10-2017, 20:14

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXIX - Power experiments

I've not spent too much time on the '75 lately as I'm the process of upgrading the Garrard 301, building a reference level EAR 834 MM phonostage and restoring the Goldring G99 so things have been a bit hectic. The Garrard is now dismantled and this left an interesting oppotunity to play around with my Nigels Speed Controller linked upto my P10 mains regenerator. The Nigels Speed Controller cleans up and regenerates the mains signal so it's pretty good in that respect but it's not too cracking at keeping a steady voltage if you plug it directly into the national grid (in other words your wall socket)! The P10 however keeps the voltage rock solid to with fractions of 1V. So by feeding the speed controller into the P10 you get a steady voltage which means the '75's motor has a constant voltage and in theory (I suppose) constant torque and a consistant level generated vibration. Unlike if your at the mercy of the national grid where voltages into the 75's motor would vary and so would levels of generated vibration. The '75 has always sounded good but not it sounds better still. I admit it's not massively different but sufficient for me to notice subtle improvements in texture and solidity of soundstage. Timing is now very good and this is apparent on complex pieces of prog. So for me now it's a no brainer and I'll be running the '75 from the P10 regenerator from now on. The new top plate is also taking shape and has now been approximatley 75% finished. I'll probably pick up the development of the '75 over the next few months but until then stay tuned..... :wave:

Wakefield Turntables

08-10-2017, 18:23

brian2957

08-10-2017, 19:11

What else have you got in that garage Andy ? Sounds like Aladdins cave in there :D

I've been using a cork mat . I bought an original GL75 mat off Ebay but haven't had a chance to have a play . By the look of things the original mat is the one to use .

Wakefield Turntables

08-10-2017, 19:25

Not very much to be honest! I'm actually in the process of getting a little space organised to I can start restoring and repairing bits for mates. I still have the original Lenco mat but I like to experiment. I also use a cork mat, but a use three differing materials together. I suppose I really should bond them together, perhaps that would yield even better results!

walpurgis

08-10-2017, 19:28

I'm actually in the process of getting a little space organised to I can start restoring and repairing bits for mates

Exactly what I'm doing. But unfortunately, I have no mates! :(

:D

Wakefield Turntables

17-10-2017, 20:18

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXXI - Bits N Bobs

I still haven't had chance to review the Thorens TD160 mat against the Technics. I'm hoping to do this tomorrow. I've looking into the wooden body of the Shure M55E cartridge. Currently I'm using snakewood but the German manufacturer offers many many different types including pear wood, cocobolo, ebony and a myriad of others. I would presume that the dampening factor obviously differs between the various woods but I don't think my ears would be able to tell any difference. It's not like when you replace a flimsy vibrating plastic body for a nice solid snakewood jobbie, the difference was very evident from the first few sides of vinyl. So, this is an avenue where I think I'll pass on. I've started to source plywood for construction of the new plinth for the 75. It's going to simply house the 75 and I'm having a seperate arm pod altogther from the 75 which means that I have total tonearm decoupling away from any spurious vibrations. I will be decoupling the motor and this shall be housed in the body of the plinth but very carefully hidden. The plinth and the motor mount will be designed to have a very high dampening factor, much higher than birch ply on it's own. These upgrades will start until probably next year but at least I can start to design and prototype over the winter months.... Stay tuned!

helma

20-10-2017, 12:54

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXX - The Thorens TD150 mat experiment

Yes that's correct. I found an old Thorens TD150 mat in the garage. It's in very very good condition and I'm listening to it right now. It's not as thick as the Technics 1700 mat but it makes for a different sonic presentation and I'm evaluating it to see if there is any merit in keeping it as part of my reference set up. The presentation seems a little laid back to my ears and saxophone appears a little muddy and muted. Still there is plenty more to assess. I now might be able to spend some more time in getting the new top plate ready now that I've finished off one or two projects. As ever stay tuned.

On mine I have two old LPs stacked on the platter, on top of which the mat goes. I've been using one I made from rubber/cork composition. The material seems very similar to plain cork but is a bit denser. Back when I was doing mat testing, it was the one I found best. For the past month or two I've used a felt mat, which is a first for me. It's certainly different to the rubber & corks mats I've used in the past. I haven't tried them side by side yet. But going by sonic memory and getting used to the sound of the felt mat now, I'd say it mates with the Lenco pretty well. On the plus side I think imaging is a bit more 3-dimensional and there seems to be just a tad more air & space into the presentation. Bass performance seems slightly worse though, like it lost some weight and isn't perhaps quite as solid as with the rubber or cork mats I've used before. I haven't done a direct comparison, but I will do that once I feel like fiddling with things again, which hasn't been the case lately. How this came about was I needed the rubber-cork mat for my other Lenco when doing testing with it and this felt mat ended up in my main Lenco as a place-holder. I ended up leaving it there out of laziness, spun a disc and didn't oppose to what I was hearing, so it stayed for extended listening.

brian2957

20-10-2017, 13:54

Must say I wasn't keen on the felt mat I tried . I'm currently using the cork/rubber mat and I've been very happy with it .

I recently fitted a new , beefier , bearing and the Audiosilente idler wheel . The GL75 is now very quiet indeed , so maybe round two of mat comparisons coming up .

Wakefield Turntables

20-10-2017, 19:48

On mine I have two old LPs stacked on the platter, on top of which the mat goes. I've been using one I made from rubber/cork composition. The material seems very similar to plain cork but is a bit denser. Back when I was doing mat testing, it was the one I found best. For the past month or two I've used a felt mat, which is a first for me. It's certainly different to the rubber & corks mats I've used in the past. I haven't tried them side by side yet. But going by sonic memory and getting used to the sound of the felt mat now, I'd say it mates with the Lenco pretty well. On the plus side I think imaging is a bit more 3-dimensional and there seems to be just a tad more air & space into the presentation. Bass performance seems slightly worse though, like it lost some weight and isn't perhaps quite as solid as with the rubber or cork mats I've used before. I haven't done a direct comparison, but I will do that once I feel like fiddling with things again, which hasn't been the case lately. How this came about was I needed the rubber-cork mat for my other Lenco when doing testing with it and this felt mat ended up in my main Lenco as a place-holder. I ended up leaving it there out of laziness, spun a disc and didn't oppose to what I was hearing, so it stayed for extended listening.

I've never been a fan of the felt mat and I remember reading some stupid discussions over on the Linn forum when I used to own a LP12. I can remember many discussions about the correct "way" the mat should be used. It's FELT FFS! These guys were extremely anal about excess wear and tear on the mats and how the correct side of the mat should be used. I eventually flogged the LP12 and said goodbye to all the 8u||$#!t once and for all!!!! I must admit to being in the same position as yourself, I'm feeling a little apathetic towards the '75 at the moment. I've got the EAR834 clone in and it's producing some very very nice noises. I've usage my 301 or 1210 in some time :eek:. It seems that cork and nitrile rubber work quite well, nice to hear different people finding the same conclusions!

Must say I wasn't keen on the felt mat I tried . I'm currently using the cork/rubber mat and I've been very happy with it .

I recently fitted a new , beefier , bearing and the Audiosilente idler wheel . The GL75 is now very quiet indeed , so maybe round two of mat comparisons coming up .

Nice to hear that your back on the '75 bandwagon. I missed you :D. New idler wheels do indeed make a massive difference and I've just read over on LH the Lenco themselves recommended the idler wheel should be replaced every 2-3 years, so no wonder you can hear a massive difference when a new one is fitted. I wish you well with the mat comparisons. I mainly now do these for a little fun and I'll also do a new comparison if I happen to find a new mat or happen to be given one. The new (old) Thorens mat seems to produce additional detail over the old technics platter mat I'm using but it really is neck and neck :hmm:I'd say the Thorens mat is ever so slightly ahead but I need another session to make a final judgement.

brian2957

20-10-2017, 20:13

Hah ! there's not many people miss me mate , including the missus :lol:

I had a mate over today . He has a Systemdeck 11X and he was very taken with the GL75 . TBH it does sound rather good at the moment . I've ordered a bearing top collar from the guy who makes them on LH so we'll see what that brings to the show .

I'm not going to get too anal with the mats , I'll try a couple and pick what I think is the best one and leave it at that .

Wakefield Turntables

20-10-2017, 20:58

Wakefield Turntables

27-10-2017, 20:54

Tonights Update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXXII - BIG ANNOUNCEMENT - Version 3 of the Reference Lenco has started.

I've decided that now would be a good time to seriously start spending some time of developing Version 3 of my Reference Lenco. A lot of my other projects are virtually finished and the winter months are drawing in so I need something to keep me busy! I've spent quite a lot of time thinking about some of the ideas that I incorperated into the latest version of the '75 and how I could progress them even further. I have several general concepts to improve the performance of the 75.

1. Dampen and couple parts.
2. Minimise components.
3. Increase mass wherever possible.
4. Protect from EMI/RFI
5. Minimise / interupt / sink vibration when possible

Over the next few months I'll post some updates on how these latest ideas will be implemented.

One of the areas that I've been tinkering with is EMI/RFI and area where the deck could be prone to magnetic inteference. I have been looking at the decks current components and checking for those which are magnetic and ultimately they will be replaced. I have once MASSIVE problem! The top plate is extremely magnetic :(. So I've bought myself a cheap magnet and over the next few days will be looking for areas which need some attention. The platter mat shoot out proved interesting and has come up with a replacement for the old technics rubber mat. I played around with Thorens TD160 mat for some time and decided that it produced slightly more detail in the soundstage presentation. It was an extremely close run thing, we are talking minuscle differences but this is supposed to be a reference Lenco so the Technics mat had to go. I also like the Thorens mat because it has a nice non-magnetic 1mm steel or aluminium disc at it's centre which means that it's probably working as a rotating shield from the electromagnetic effects on some of the motor. This may not be the case and it may not offer any protection at all but it's their and not doing any harm. So, a quick snap of the deck as it looks with its new platter mat.

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brian2957

27-10-2017, 21:47

Wakefield Turntables

28-10-2017, 16:40

Dunno, they do look very similar! :eek:

Wakefield Turntables

05-11-2017, 20:50

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXIII - Micro-mini-miniscule update

The '75 has been taking a back seat of late due to lost of other things happening but I did get a rather good (not very original) idea :idea: whilst messing around building my EAR 834 clone. There has been quite a lot of posts suggesting that valve dampening rings work quite well with microphony, so why cant they work to dampen any bearing vibration? So, I spent £5 of my hard earned on 50 various sized dampening rings to see where I can utilised them in preventing / decreasing vibration getting into the Shure M55e cartridge. I intend to encase the Jolyon bearing and maybe even the chasis mounting bolts and any additional component that looks like it might benefit.

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I honestly have no idea if this will work but for <£5 I'm happy to experiment. Tune in next time for a fresh assessment of component optimisation.

brian2957

05-11-2017, 21:15

Where did you get the rings from Andy ? Well worth a try , especially for a fiver :)

Wakefield Turntables

05-11-2017, 21:17

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2X-14-mm-x-2-5-mm-Silicone-O-Ring-Oil-Sealing-Discs-Spouts-Red-10-PCS-A5Q7/152694458233?epid=676087283&hash=item238d4c8779:g:yDQAAOSw6Q1ZsP4w :)

brian2957

05-11-2017, 21:21

Thanks mate :)

Jimbo

06-11-2017, 06:49

I see you two chaps are still tinkering :):wave:

Wakefield Turntables

06-11-2017, 08:05

I see you two chaps are still tinkering :):wave:

Come on join the club. :)

brian2957

06-11-2017, 08:13

Aye , jump in James . You know you want to :)

Jimbo

06-11-2017, 12:41

I need more time mate - maybe a nice long term project for my retirement!:lol:

Wakefield Turntables

17-11-2017, 19:31

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXIV - Micro-mini-miniscule update PT 2

I have not forgotten the '75 but my time has been limited with lots of other projects. I did address the idea of encasing the bearing with silicone dampening rings. LH member Jolly wrote an interesting post.

"The motor spins at 1440rpm under no load so a bit slower when driving the platter. So you could get noise from the bearings at a frequency of 1440/50 which would be 24 Hz no load and lower under load if the bearings were misaligned and were tight at one point during a single revolution of the armature. Idler eccentricity would generate LF noise and cause the platter to ring a little more."

This is the post that got me wondering if it was possible to reduce bearing noise going into the platter by encasing it with silicone rings. I also wondered if a very thin layer of sorbothane (0.5 / 1mm) would be useful under the bearing collar I use. Now, here's the ace up my sleeve :eyebrows:, I intend to measure some of these experiments by using one of these
https://static.bax-shop.nl/image/product/10029/132794/c591f169/UFO202_Left.jpg
and a copy of Audacity. I understand that the measurements might be skewed but i'm hoping that it might give me an insight into how we can improve vibration around the bearing and also how these little experiments improve rumble going through the bearing. All the information learned will go into making v3 of my Reference Lenco turntable. I should have my silicone rings within a few days so let the fun begin!!

Wakefield Turntables

19-11-2017, 19:40

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXV - Rumble Grumble!

So my new toy arrives tomorrow which should enable me to assess bearing rumble (presuming I can get it to work)! This is going to be pretty cool as I intend to look at the effects of many tweaks including the effects of using and not using a record weight. I'll also look at the effects of encasing the bearing in silicone. I have bags of very thick sorbothane so I'll be placing this in a few discrete places and seeing what happens. The effects of platter mats and platter dampening rings could also be assessed as well. I also want to see if changing the material of the bearing brace from steel to birchply and sorbothane has any effects. All interesting stuff which I'll document over the next few weeks. I suppose I could even look at the effects of differing greases and oils in the bearing itself. STAY TUNED!

Wakefield Turntables

02-12-2017, 20:51

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXVI - Shure thing g'vnor!

The Lenco has actually received a little attention in between all the other things that have been happening in my listening room. I did some experimentation with Sorbothane footers on the understand of my isolation plinths and I HATED the results, they completely left the Lenco sounding flat as a fart so they got removed and my insanity was restored. My second experiment of the week involved changed my beloved M55E for a Shure V15 mk 3 with the much revered VN35MR stylus to see if we could get any more performance out of the cartridge/tonearm combination. I have to say that the M55E is now bolted back in place. OMG what a mis-match, I've now found out that the Alphason arm is too heavy for the V15 which makes some sense as the M55E does have a heavier wood body strapped in place when compared to the M55E, so now I'm wondering if the Mpingo wood spacer i have laying around will make any difference :doh:. The V15 just sound mute and lacking in detail. A quick look at the output specs reveals the M55E to have a higher output than the V15. I additionally wanted to try the M55E JICO neoSAS/R stylus in the V15 but it didn't fit. The prospect of having to spend £40 on a new wooden body for the V15 and a new neoSAS /R stylus at over £200 just put the final nail in the V15's coffin. So the M55E reigns supreme again! Now I'm Shure which cartridge I'm keeping !!! I still think that more can be had out of this combo and I think this will be proven when I get the upgraded EAR 834 phonostage working sometime in January.

helma

17-12-2017, 00:32

Since you mentioned isolation platforms and feet, here are the feet of my Lencos...

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Lenco feet #1 - hockey puck resting in a bed of rubber bands. Ugly as hell but these actually work really well in my setup. The whole 15-20kg turntable is suspended on 3 feet like this, it's not overly springy but if you tap it there's some slight spring action. With these rubberband feet I find the sound is a bit more detailed and "airy", without losing any of the oomph and drive. Also backgrounds seem just a tad quieter. It's not at all like listening to a suspended subchassis belt-drive, but I think it can be said these feet nudge the overall sound just a bit towards that direction.

At some point I want to make better and nicer looking feet with a variation of this concept. These cheap and thin rubber bands stretched so thin become brittle and dead in a few months, until eventually just falling apart, which means I have to redo the feet several times a year.

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Lenco feet #2 - hockey puck with a "door stopper" made of some kind of silicone. The feet are a bit squishy but not overly so. Overall these are OK for cheap DIY lossy feet but I like the rubber band solution better. Comparing, with these the sound seems more thick in the upper bass and lower midrange and the soundstaging seems a bit more compressed with less width and depth. Viewing the whole deck, they look pretty nice though. This Lenco is a rather slim and sleek looking one.

Wakefield Turntables

18-12-2017, 21:33

Kai,

Thanks for the update with regards your system. I'm in the process of evaluating a new record weight on the 75 and I also have some new feet to play with. I intend to do an update in then next few days detailing my findings. It still amazes me how small changes can have large repercussions. Some of your findings seem to mirror my own in that small tweaks can sometimes suck the life out of the music whilst others seems to just that little bit more out of the deck. Ah well, experimentation beckons....!

Wakefield Turntables

26-12-2017, 19:26

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXVII - Coppering up.

The '75 reference has taken a back seat over the last few months due to time, illness and other projects. I decided to have a word with myself with respects my hifi spending habits so I've been slowly selling off bits of kit which simply don't get used or don't fit my sonic tastes. So far I've got rid of some IC's, some filters and some platter mats. Reviewing your old bits of kit is great for the soul because it free's up cash and space and occasionally brings about a sonic improvement. Well, my experiments over the last few days have revolved around using a 0.75kg solid copper record weight which I use with great effect on my Garrard 301. Reviewing such kit is pretty simple and the effects on the decks performance are quite easily noted as I've spent more than a few hours listening to it and it's quirks over the last year or so. My first impressions of the record weight were not that great as I couldn't quite put my finger on the sonic changes to the soundstage and then I had a great idea. I decided to review various short 2-3 minute songs so any changes could be quite easily noted between experimentation. It immediately became apparent that some of the fine detail was being lost and the soundstage didn't feel quite as crisp or incisive. I experimented over 3 days and had to come to the conclusion that the record weight was simply not for the deck. I wanted to try and improve the coupling of the record to the trio of mats I use on the double stacked platters but it just didn't seem to work out. So, the quest continues.... :)

Wakefield Turntables

25-01-2018, 20:36

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXVIII - New born clarity?

It's still too cold to be messing around with the new Reference version of the Lenco so I'll be plodding along with my current deck over the next few weeks until things start to warm up a little. I've been slowly finishing off some of my projects and one of them has been a new EAR834p clone. Mr. Firebottle has finished this for me and shall hopefully be evaluated over the next few weeks. I'm hoping that this new version will improve over the already impressive stock 834p clone that I have sitting under my Lenco that I'm listening to as we speak! I'm hoping to see a new improved sonic performance from the 75 and hopefully I'll be able to document this as and when time allows. I also have a little experiment with some dampening rings that I purchased from China, but again that's for another update.

As ever, stay tuned.... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

25-02-2018, 19:31

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXIX - New Year new developments

It's nearly March and I've not touched the '75 in quite some time. I've been enjoying the deck and love it's sound but I've now finished with my Valve MM phonostage experiments and my Goldring G99 is also on the final straight with only a few minor tweaks to do. I've been looking at stuff that I don't use and have decided that I might go down the route of a two arm plinth. I want a new plinth anyway because I want a decoupled tonearm pod made from heavy non-magnetic material and possibly with an ebony finish. I love the effect the ebony armboard brought to my Technics 1210 so I suspect a might tweak a little extra detail out of the '75. The plinth redesign will also enable me to change the orientation of the whole turntable chasis, this picture gives you all an idea of what I want. I would like to position the motor to the lower left of the plinth whilst keeping the tonearm top right. The idea is to keep vibration away from the tonearm pod which will be decoupled anyway but it might aid things.

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The new plinth will also house the new chasis which is now completely filled in. I also have performed some modifications to the idler arm which may or may not be beneficial. The Alphason tonearm should also benefit from the new plinth as I should be able to improve the VTA position of the tonearm. Things are ok and I get a great noise from the '75 but I think could be improved. The new plinth will also have a greater mass, I'm a great fan of extra mass and it should be interesting to see if this helps. I do have a concern that I'm not going to be able to assess each tweak on an individual basis so I guess I'm hoping that all of them when taken as a package will improve the performance of the deck. Construction of the new plinth will probably be birch ply but I do have an important call to make tomorrow to discuss the plinth's design. At the some point I'd also like to decouple the motor so this has to be taken into account when making the plinth. I'll also be looking at dampening again wherever possible under the hood and removing any parts that are not needed. I hate to say this but the only way forward with this deck would probably be to ditch it and then go down the route of a PTP. There is still life left in this old beast and hopefully we can keep this thread alive for a little longer.

As ever stay tuned... :)

brian2957

25-02-2018, 19:53

Jimbo

25-02-2018, 19:58

Maybe you need to try a VPI belter Brian:eek::)

brian2957

25-02-2018, 20:01

How ya fixed buddy :lol:

Wakefield Turntables

25-02-2018, 20:12

Good to see you working on the GL75 again Andy . This thread shows that you have a deep understanding of this turntable and how to improve it . I must admit that I tried to return to vinyl with the GL75 twice and decided , reluctantly , that I didn't have the time nor the patience to enjoy vinyl the way it should be enjoyed . When I retire ....you never know . It doesn't stop me from enjoying this thread though :)

Thanks mate! Glad your enjoying the thread still. Part of the enjoyment has been trying the deck with different phonostage, arms, carts etc. I'm using my Sugden Masterclass phonostage at the moment and the '75 sounds quite good. It's been plumbed into the EAR 834p clone for some time so nice to listen to a bit of solid state. Sorry to hear you couldn't get on with your 75, I'm always here if you change your mind!

Maybe you need to try a VPI belter Brian:eek::)

Jim, nice to see you back on this thread. I've always had a bit of a dislike to belter's but I'm watching a deck at the moment which just might take me back into that camp. Watch this space :eyebrows:

Jimbo

25-02-2018, 20:31

Thanks mate! Glad your enjoying the thread still. Part of the enjoyment has been trying the deck with different phonostage, arms, carts etc. I'm using my Sugden Masterclass phonostage at the moment and the '75 sounds quite good. It's been plumbed into the EAR 834p clone for some time so nice to listen to a bit of solid state. Sorry to hear you couldn't get on with your 75, I'm always here if you change your mind!

Jim, nice to see you back on this thread. I've always had a bit of a dislike to belter's but I'm watching a deck at the moment which just might take me back into that camp. Watch this space :eyebrows:

Always interested in your latest developments Andy. Very curious regarding your interest in a belter. :)

Wakefield Turntables

25-02-2018, 20:37

Always interested in your latest developments Andy. Very curious regarding your interest in a belter. :)

It all depends upon the final price!

brian2957

25-02-2018, 20:40

Sorry to hear you couldn't get on with your 75, I'm always here if you change your mind!

Thanks Andy , I'll keep that in mind :)

Wakefield Turntables

25-02-2018, 21:12

It all depends upon the final price!

OUTBID! Ah, I supposed the money will be spent on the 75!

Marra

26-02-2018, 11:58

Wakefield Turntables

27-02-2018, 20:31

Glad to see that you like the look of my two arm plinth Andy:). It is sounding pretty good with my homemade unipivot arm and a Decca microscanner Gold cartridge. The 12" arms is still under construction and will have a Koetsu Red cartridge fitted which has just been rebuilt by Goldring.

I am curious as to how you intend to decouple the arm board.

The plinth is I believe one of Carls workshop build; I bought it second hand although unused. Excellent build quality and damned heavy.

Keith, glad to hear from you again! Sounds like you have a stunning deck and skills to match if your making your own tonearms, way out of my league! I've got a spare DECCA FFSS mk 2 sitting on my sideboard doing nothing so I may install it with a MKII at some point. And, funnily enough I have been thinking about getting Koetsu repaired (as it's not selling) and maybe using it on my Alphason. I love my M55E but it can easily be bettered. Decoupling the tonearm is pretty simple. I'm just going to have a tonearm pod made up which will inside the plinth but not actually attached in any way.

Marra

28-02-2018, 10:35

Keith, glad to hear from you again! Sounds like you have a stunning deck and skills to match if your making your own tonearms, way out of my league! I've got a spare DECCA FFSS mk 2 sitting on my sideboard doing nothing so I may install it with a MKII at some point. And, funnily enough I have been thinking about getting Koetsu repaired (as it's not selling) and maybe using it on my Alphason. I love my M55E but it can easily be bettered. Decoupling the tonearm is pretty simple. I'm just going to have a tonearm pod made up which will inside the plinth but not actually attached in any way.

Hi Andy; I've read good things re the Decca FFSS. Should be interesting. So the arm pod will slide into/through the plinth and sit on the shelf?

Wakefield Turntables

28-02-2018, 18:16

So the arm pod will slide into/through the plinth and sit on the shelf?

No because it would still be coupled. The idea is to have a shaft sunk through the whole thickness of the plinth and then simply house the arm pod in the shaft. The pod will have it's own feet. I could just have a smaller plinth and have the armpod sit externally but I like the look of a hulking big plinth with the tonearm pod neatly hidden inside. I would imagine it would be very hard for any motor vibration to get into the tonearm pod. Additionally the mass of the pod, direction and sinking of vbration into feet and then something like an ebony tonearm mount would certainly disrupt vibration transmission into the tonearm and cartridge. Of course I'm probably completely wrong with how all this works :) !

Wakefield Turntables

01-04-2018, 19:54

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXX - Lazarus!

The 75 is still alive and kicking and my passion for developing the deck has risen like Lazarus. I must admit to feeling a little apathetic towards the project over Winter, now the weather has improved I'm back in the garage messing around. I've sourced quite a bit of birch play for the new plinth. I'm not quite sure of the layout yet but that's probably something to start messing around with in the next few days. In the meantime I have decided that I'm going to experiment with a new birchplay tonearm mount for the Alphason. I don't have the correct drill bit so will have to buy something a little bit like these guys

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I need a 56mm diameter to mount Alphason. I've never been 100% with the tonearm's alignment or mounting and always thought that it could be improved upon. Ultimately the tonearm will be decouple on a heavy mass pod but I'd like to do a little experimentation to see if the various woods have any sonic impact on the deck. I'll start with birch ply and then make mounts from differing woods until I find something I like. My inspiration comes from the positive effects ebony had upon my 1210. I also hope to improve upon the alphason's alignment and setup and so improving the sonics. Wood will add additional mass to the tonearm mounting, currently I'm using EVA which whilst ok is not great and was only really meant as a stop gap. The next area of improvement is the slider used in mounting the idler wheel arm. The idler wheel arm is held in place with a two part mount which is very flimsy and also rattles. This is not good and consequently means that there are many surfaces with lots of moving parts all clatter and all this passes up into idler wheel and ultimately into the platter. NOT GOOD! :( This is a picture (FROM LENCO HEAVEN THANKS CHRIS1967) showing the old slider mount to the left of the picture. As you can see numerous parts. The solution is the large piece of aluminium to the right. I'm actually not happy with this design either as this had loads of nuts and washers which again means loads of surfaces to chatter and transmit vibration into the top plate and platter. My solution is to simply epoxy bond a single piece of aluminium onto the top plate and do away with all the nuts bolts and other components. Bonding the new slider mount needs to be precise due to the fact that its position controls the RPM of the platter. In an ideal world the top plate would have been milled from a solid piece of aluminium incorporating the idler arm mount. This would mean you loose two connecting surfaces merging into one but I suppose bonding with epoxy resin is about as good as I can get.

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I'm not quite sure what to do with the idler wheel arm. I'm looking into ways to sink vibration from the idler wheel arm into the plinth or top plate, but then that's another update. Right you guys I'm signing off. Hope you like the update. As ever, stay tuned... :cool:

brian2957

01-04-2018, 19:57

Are we entering another phase of GL75 modifications Andy? :popcorn:

Wakefield Turntables

02-04-2018, 08:49

Are we entering another phase of GL75 modifications Andy? :popcorn:

Yep, but a lot of the mods are old ideas which I haven't yet implemented and then some are my own. The deck can't be pushed much further. I think it's now going to be about the deck and plinth interaction. Should be fun.

brian2957

02-04-2018, 10:04

Wakefield Turntables

02-04-2018, 11:13

Interesting ideas Andy . Yes I have a set of those hole cutters , they're not that expensive and IIRC 56mm is one of the standard sizes for the hole required for those little ceiling downlighters you see in people's homes .

While you're working on these mods , Is there any way you could shorten the idler wheel rod and resite the mounting ? . I think this would provide more stability to the sq if it could be done . I like your idea of fixing the idler mounting and removing all those nuts and bolts . Don't you use an electronic speed controller for the GL75 ? Wouldn't this give you some leeway regarding positioning of the idler wheel with regards to the motor shaft .

Look forward to the next episode Andy , just make sure you don't get snowed into your garage :D

I could shorten the idler wheel but to be honest there is a very specific mounting distance for the idler mounting that will produce 33.3rpm if your prepared to slide the thing up and down enough and then fix it into place. The speed controller does indeed help but this mod means you don't need one :eyebrows:. Believe me or not it has actually snowed and now we are thawing out!

brian2957

02-04-2018, 11:35

Hah ! snow still to arrive up here :)

Wakefield Turntables

06-04-2018, 21:03

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXI - Were off again!

The 75 has had a new raft of mods. All in these little bits and pieces took 3 hours to do. The drill bits arrive off e-bay and for £4 weren't too bad. A bit cheap and cheerful but got the job done. The first thing that I'd been planning for a while was a new tonearm mount. I'd originally produced one from EVA and whilst this worked well I always got the feeling that I needed something else. I quick rummage around the garage and I found some scrap 25mm plywood, 30 minutes later and i'd fabricated the tonearm mount. Not the best job in the world and I'll replace it for something better but still quite pleasing. Tonearm alignment is now much easier and the tonearm now truly sits parallel to the vinyl.

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I rebuilt the motor and remounted the motor whilst I had the chance. I also added additional dampening around the motor pillar mounts. The small rubber grommets have been added to try and keep the springs in place whilst also trying to dampening any vibration from the motor pillar mounts. Each of the three pillars recieved the same treatment. It's an old idea that some of the old Thoren's use, but they use a bit of sponge and this has been shown to impinge the springs and consequently affect there ability to reduce motor vibration.

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The bearing stabiliser shaft also received additional rubber grommets. The idea is to reduce any bearing vibration getting into the plinth.

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The tonearm mounts also recieved some large rubber washer in a bid to further minimise vibration getting into the tonearm.

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I also added several small gromets to each of the plinth mounting bolts from the top plate. Sorry no picture.

Well how does it sound? Very very quite in between tracks. The tonearm isn't properly setup but I think that I might be onto a winner.

Stay tuned! :cool:

CornishPasty

07-04-2018, 09:59

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXX - Lazarus!
The next area of improvement is the slider used in mounting the idler wheel arm. The idler wheel arm is held in place with a two part mount which is very flimsy and also rattles. This is not good and consequently means that there are many surfaces with lots of moving parts all clatter and all this passes up into idler wheel and ultimately into the platter. NOT GOOD! :( This is a picture (FROM LENCO HEAVEN THANKS CHRIS1967) showing the old slider mount to the left of the picture. As you can see numerous parts. The solution is the large piece of aluminium to the right. I'm actually not happy with this design either as this had loads of nuts and washers which again means loads of surfaces to chatter and transmit vibration into the top plate and platter. My solution is to simply epoxy bond a single piece of aluminium onto the top plate and do away with all the nuts bolts and other components. Bonding the new slider mount needs to be precise due to the fact that its position controls the RPM of the platter. In an ideal world the top plate would have been milled from a solid piece of aluminium incorporating the idler arm mount. This would mean you loose two connecting surfaces merging into one but I suppose bonding with epoxy resin is about as good as I can get.

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I'm not quite sure what to do with the idler wheel arm. I'm looking into ways to sink vibration from the idler wheel arm into the plinth or top plate, but then that's another update. Right you guys I'm signing off. Hope you like the update. As ever, stay tuned... :cool:

Why bother with all that junk and glueing a lump of ally on the top plate etc? A longish bolt through the rod grommet with a penny washer either side of the slot and a locknut underneath the slot will do it. Nip it up just so and you can adjust the speed from underneath before removing the platter and locking it up. It worked ok for me but in the end I couldn't do without the speed change so reverted back to stock mechanism. With careful attention I have ended up with a rattle free mechanism which I'm happy with.

Wakefield Turntables

07-04-2018, 17:27

Why bother with all that junk and glueing a lump of ally on the top plate etc? A longish bolt through the rod grommet with a penny washer either side of the slot and a locknut underneath the slot will do it. Nip it up just so and you can adjust the speed from underneath before removing the platter and locking it up. It worked ok for me but in the end I couldn't do without the speed change so reverted back to stock mechanism. With careful attention I have ended up with a rattle free mechanism which I'm happy with.

Yep, your solution is very elegant compared to the one suggested, which is by Jan Nantais who's decks sell for many thousands of Euro's. I like your solution but I dont like the idea of many surfaces chattering together, hence my suggestion of bonding the mount to the top plate. I've found marked sonic improvements with improved coupling of components and these decks seem to get better and better with improved coupling, vibration supression / dissipation. Too much dampening seem to have an impact on attack and muddies the sonic presentation. These are just my observations with my own experiments.

Wakefield Turntables

08-04-2018, 20:22

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXII - It's bloody singing.. :wowzer:

The 75 is now in a position where it's sounding the best that it has EVER sounded. The deck is now partnered with my Fire Bottle modded EAR 834 clone. I have done a little cable swapping and the 834 Clone now runs through my PS Audio P10 power regenerator. The changes to the deck's setup have produced marked improvements. The deck just sounds so clear now, it sounds great with all genre's of music, it has fantastic attack, the bass is great.The deck is virtually silent in operation. I could quite happily live with the deck now as it is, but that's the curse of tweaking :doh: you always want to find out what's around the next corner. So, whats next? Well I was thinking on experimenting with the Denon 103M and Lentek head amp going into the EAR834 clone. The 103M needs a rebuild so this is going to happen sometime in Summer. Until then I can only see a minor modification to the idler arm mount and then possibly the start on the new plinth build with the new more heavily modified (and heavier) top plate. Looks like the 75 is going to power on through 2018!

As ever stay tuned... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

15-04-2018, 20:02

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXIII - Meet the new boss, same as the old boss (but better).....:eek:

It dosen't look like very much but this is the new reference Lenco. It differs from the current Reference in so many ways. The top plate is about 600g heavier, the old ones was approx 4.4lb this now tops 5lb in weight or about 12% heavier. I've always been a fan of mass! You'll notice the tonearm slot has been filled in and the idler arm mount has been stiffened and minimised. I've filled in a few extra holes that I'd missed on the old reference top plate. As you can see the cosmetic appearance still needs a
lot of work but it's a work in progress, no rush.

The new boss.....

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2018 has already produced quite a few improvements for the 75, I've listed what's been achieved so far :-

BEARING

* Added increased dampening to the bearing mount and nut/bolt.

MOTOR

* Added increased dampening to each motor spring tower.

TONE ARM

* Replaced EVA tonearm mount with slightly enlarged circumference birchply replacement.
* VTA improved.
* Tonearm mounting stability improved.

TOP PLATE

* Added increased dampening to the insertion of each top plate mounting bolt.
* Optimised and stiffened idler arm slot.
* Replaced idler arm mount with non-magnetic replacement.
* Bonded idler arm mount onto top plate for improved coupling.
* Eliminated several components from the idler arm mount mechanism.
* Increased mass of top plate to 5lb or 12% heavier.

I've made a start to try and remove as many magnetic components as possible. This is in a bid to try and stop/reduce and EMI from affecting the deck. I have to admit that it will be extremely difficult to perceive any improvements from this area of modding but as always I firmly believe that results arise when you add all the small tweaks together. There are some very exciting developments going over on Lenco Heaven mainly this thread https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=27929.0 it should help us understand the positive or negative effects of tweaking. Currently, the tonearm board is being assessed and I can't wait for the results. I've experimented with ebony on my 1210 and got excellent results and I also noticed a marked improvement when I switched from EVA to birchply on the 75. OK. I think I've said enough, I'll be looking into the platter next time.

As always, stay tuned..... :cool:

brian2957

15-04-2018, 20:17

Good grief , back to scratch again Andy .:eek: Ah well , it'll give me something interesting to read :D

I have my old GL75 here , which I sold to Tony , for some minor repairs . I must say that it's looking and sounding pretty good . It's fairly stock , the only upgrades being a heavier bearing and a new idler wheel . Sounds excellent though :)

wee tee cee

22-04-2018, 13:45

Many thanks for fixing mine Brian.

You were right about letting it run for 20 minutes to stabilise.

Sounds pretty good to my ears.

DSJR

22-04-2018, 15:31

Was the original bearing crap then? I have seen a couple with sloppy sleeves (they can be replaced apparently with stock sizes readily available), but the thrust plates and spindle bottoms seem able to take the platter weight ok and the earlier bearings were grease filled in any case..

Reminds me. After the G99 I had a go at recently, I need to resurrect the GL78 I have here. It's no better than the Duals I have here, but I should get it going for posterity's sake, even if I sell it as I did with a good few others I had through me mitts over the years...

walpurgis

22-04-2018, 15:37

I'm sure it must occur, but I've never seen a heavy platter Lenco with a worn main bearing and I've owned about a dozen.

Had one of the lightweight L69's with a knackered (but totally different) bearing.

DSJR

22-04-2018, 16:34

I had two pass my way when I was in the shop where there was definite platter wobble. I think they were later ones and maybe got-at in the meantime, I don't know. Others I've owned and serviced were fine and a G99 I dealt with recently had superbly tight tolerances as well as healthy grease filling as earlier? ones had from new. I believe this could explain why some samples take ten minutes or so for the speed to stabilise from 'cold' as this G99 did, even with a clean under-platter edge and replacement idler wheel.

These two iffy ones had the arms stripped off and ended up as platters for speaker drive unit assembly - a centring jig was placed on top of the bare platters, the incomplete drivers placed magnet-down on top and the platter spun gently so the adhesives could be run round evenly. Worked well too :)

It wasn't until years later when I read on the Lenco-heaven forum that suitable replacement sleeves were available and with a bolt and suitable washers plus some care and common sense, it was possible to drift the old sleeves out and ease the new ones in safely.

brian2957

22-04-2018, 16:36

Many thanks for fixing mine Brian.

You were right about letting it run for 20 minutes to stabilise.

Sounds pretty good to my ears.

Not a problem mate :)

walpurgis

22-04-2018, 16:38

two iffy ones had the arms stripped off and ended up as platters for speaker drive unit assembly - a centring jig was placed on top of the bare platters, the incomplete drivers placed magnet-down on top and the platter spun gently so the adhesives could be run round evenly. Worked well too :)

I've done similar. Used the same idea for cone doping too.

Wakefield Turntables

03-05-2018, 20:31

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXIV - Gaining Clarity

Just a little update tonight. Quite some time ago I decided to change the tonearm mount on the 75 from medium density EVA to Birchply. Well the change has been well worth it. I admit the job isn't a very good one but it has again brought benefits to the sonic performance of the '75. I have to admit that the changes are very subtle but it's only after a good few listening sessions that you appreciate just what the change in materials fetches to the sonic presentation. In short there is a small but pleasing increase in clarity to the soundstage. The birch ply has had exactly the same effect as when I replaced the ebony tonearm board on my Technics 1210, again a small but pleasingly noticeable improvement in soundstage clarity. The '75 is still behind the 301 and 1210 with respects to soundstage insight and clarity but its slowly catching up. Ideally I'd like to try a Panzerholz tonearm board on the '75 and even produce 4 mounting washers for the mounting threads. The panzerholz washers would have a better dampening rate than a simple washer and would also be non-metallic which I hope is useful in EMI purposes. An example of the Panzerholz tonearm board can be seem in the second picture, my 301.

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As ever, stay tuned! :cool:

Primalsea

04-05-2018, 11:51

Wakefield Turntables

04-05-2018, 13:41

Really interesting project Andrew. Was it you that was asking about vibration measurements a while back? I managed to cobble together a workable system recently. It consisted of a cheap stethoscope from Amazon a plug in mic and an Ipad with some free software.

Yep, I think ZZMOKO over on Lenco Heaven has a test rig organised and he's in the process of accessing all manner or woods, alloys, metals, rubbers and whatever else he can get his hand on. Should make for good reading and experimenting!

Wakefield Turntables

11-05-2018, 20:00

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXV - Grand ideas.

We are now up to part 85 of the Lenco development blog and more ideas seem to swirl around my bonce. I've had such a positive response with the Panzerholz tonearm boards on my 301 that I now want to replicate the findings over on my Lenco. I was in the process of making a new birchply plinth for the 75 but I have decided to put this on hold and maybe think about producing an optimised Panzerholz replacement for my 75. I was also thinking about decoupling the tonearm and buying a heavy mass tonearm pod but now I think it would probably be just as beneficial to have a heavily dampened Panzerholz plinth and tonearm board to reduce motor vibration into the tonearm and cartridge. So in effect dumping decoupling the tonearm and going down the route of more coupling. The tonearm is pretty immune to vibration and the cartridge is mounted into a wooden mount that has a good dampening factor so all in all motor vibration should have a hard time getting into the cartridge/vinyl interface. I've also got a Mpingo cartridge spacer that I used to use on my Denon 103M, I'm in the mood to see if this could be used to help the sonic performance of the 75 even further by providing another layer of vibration supression into the cartridge. I'm also thinking that Panzerholz washers might be the way to go for even further vibration supression and dumping more metallic components. The deck has never sounded better. I recently updated the EAR 834 with x3 telefunken ECC83's and they have produced a large improvement in detail and ability to see into the mix. Now I need to spend a little time getting used to the Telefunkens!

Wakefield Turntables

17-06-2018, 18:51

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXVI - Wood for the trees....

It's been a long time since the poor old 75 got some attention, I've been mainly working on the 301 converting it to a two arm SME machine :eek:. TBF I've also been waiting on some parts for the 75 and they arrived this week. I have Si (of Paradise fame) for the lovely big chunk of Panzerholz. This is going to form the base of my tonearm mount and is considerably more dense and mass(ey) compared to my current birch ply lash up. I'm going to try and retain as much mass and surface area as possible when making the new tonearm mount. You can see that the thing weighs in at 0.34kg, about 10 times the weight of the current Birchply version :wowzer:.

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Secondly I have also dug out my Mpingo spacer for the M55E cartridge. It adds an additional layer of dampening to the cartridge and it's also a different wood material. Again I'm trying to disrupt and dissipate and mechanical energy (vibration) getting to the cartridge. I will now have to fine tune the VTA of the M55E and change the counterweight to accomodate the extra few grams but this give me the ideal opportunity to make sure that the tonearm and cartridge geometry are spot on.

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The M55E is now encased in lots of weird and wonderful woods.

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It's probably going to be some time before the Panzerolz tonearm mount is finished as I have still to finish the 301 (which is nearing completion). I then have the really horrible task of assessing if these latest mods have any sonic impact by listening to lots of vinyl. Sometimes I feel all I do is work..... :lol:

Anyway.... now for some Sunday Jazz and single malt...... :cool:

Dr Henry Jones

23-06-2018, 03:42

Funny thread... :) As a long time Lenco fan, Lenco Référence and Lenco Heaven forums member, I have to smile when I read that some AoS inmates seem to think that a Lenco L75 is a kind of rudimentery tool for Neanderthal men...

And I impatienly wait for the moment when someone is going to write that a properly modified Lenco L75 (or L78 for that matter) runs rings around that springy Scottish thing, what do you call it, Lynn Sundeck, or whatever...:rolleyes:
A modded Lenco with a well matched arm and cartridge will do much more than run rings around a Scottish springy thing ...pace rhythm and timing? The sondeck is left in the dust . Bass control....The sondeck doesn't stand a chance . now put a good uni pivot (noted fore lovely open midrange) and the right cartridge on the Lenco and you have something that shouldn't be compared to the sondeck....as it would be VERY unfair to the sondeck. I have been in a very lucky position , i have a friend who has a few quid and i have listened to some of propper top flight turntables...sme 20,technics sp 10,orical Delph 5, .......The Scottish springy thing doesn't even come close! ......but a carefully modded Lenco could give you a very big surprise ! Oh and I have looked under the bonnet of a sondek the engineering is okay.........okay! At those prices !!!! It should be on a pare with any of the tt's listed up above ....It doesn't come close!

Wakefield Turntables

01-07-2018, 19:12

A modded Lenco with a well matched arm and cartridge will do much more than run rings around a Scottish springy thing ...pace rhythm and timing? The sondeck is left in the dust . Bass control....The sondeck doesn't stand a chance . now put a good uni pivot (noted fore lovely open midrange) and the right cartridge on the Lenco and you have something that shouldn't be compared to the sondeck....as it would be VERY unfair to the sondeck. I have been in a very lucky position , i have a friend who has a few quid and i have listened to some of propper top flight turntables...sme 20,technics sp 10,orical Delph 5, .......The Scottish springy thing doesn't even come close! ......but a carefully modded Lenco could give you a very big surprise ! Oh and I have looked under the bonnet of a sondek the engineering is okay.........okay! At those prices !!!! It should be on a pare with any of the tt's listed up above ....It doesn't come close!

I had a very expensive Linn LP12 setup once upon a time and then I discovered idlers. I dont really elastic band drive systems although I must admit to wanting to try a Heybrook TT2 :door:.

Wakefield Turntables

01-07-2018, 19:25

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXVII - Idle sod!

Just a really quick mini update for this blog. I've had the Mpingo spacer in for a few weeks now and I initially didn't like what I heard and then I realised that I was using the Sugden MM phonostage whilst my EAR 834 clone was being modded by Alan @ Firebottle Labs! The EAR is now back and the 75 is singing again. I've noticed that surface noise seems reduced and on well recorded vinyl there is no surface noise whatsoever! I've also rehoused the PS Audio P10 off the main rack which houses the 75 so I'm hoping to have eliminated so transformer noise and hum away from the rack framework. So far so good. The Mpingo spacer has added a very small but positive improvement to the 75. I'm now sitting back and enjoying the sonics.

Wakefield Turntables

08-07-2018, 19:46

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXVIII - Monotonous!

It's all change and moving and experimentation with the 75. I've removed the Mpingo spacer as after extended listening I found that some of the magic and propulsion of the 75 has been lost. Karma was restored once the spacer had been removed. I've decided to give the Garrard 301 a little rest as the Croft Epoch will be going to Mr. Firebottle which means my main valve system will be silent and this means time to tweak the 75. I'm finally going to make the Panzerholz tonearm mount and may even finish off the new top plate with several more tweaks along the way. I'll detail these tweaks and include lots of photo's in the next update or two. I have now also managed to snag a mono-stylus for the M55E cartridge for the princely sum of ~£40. This is coming from Germany and was quite cheap compared to the near £70 that Thacker wanted for exactly the same product :rolleyes:.

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The Mono stylus is now going to enable me to take advantage of the mono-switch modification available on my EAR 834 clone :eyebrows: and has neatly avoided the need to continually replace the M55E and mount a specific Mono cartridge, or even worse still the need (and cost) for a second tonearm. I'm slowly running out of steam for additional mods for the 75. The two biggest are of course the decoupling of the motor and tonearm and one day I may go down that route but at this moment in time I'll plough my own furrow and see what these new modifications bring to the sonic picture.

As always, stay tuned.... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

15-07-2018, 20:40

The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXIX - WOODWORK!

The 75 has undergone yet more tweaking and this time some pretty heavy duty mods. Firstly I have managed to add additional mass to the plinth by filling in areas that appear to be empty voids. My 75 is now so far from standard that the original plinth I bought was originally designed for a vanilla 75 and so has quite a lot of recesses and voids to accommodate all the parts and gubbins. I've taken a very minimal approach with the 75 and so only the bare basics are needed to get the platter spinning and producing music. As can be seen with this next picture.

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The idler wheel cueing mechanism has now been completely removed. I have now altered the mounting plate for the idler arm itself and now a simple nut, washer and bolt hold it into place. This removes excess parts and surfaces which could "chatter" against each other in operation. The idler arm has been exactly mounted the gain 33.3 rpm. The excess parts have been discarded and now reside in my spares draw. The idler arm itself will eventually be dampened with good old blutack, the idler spring has been lost and so a source of vibration from the motor to the top plate has gone. Blutack has pretty decent damping factor and so should work to dampen vibration passing from the motor and top plate into the idler wheel. I could also loose the idler arm park break but I'll keep that for the time being. I now have several more holes that will require filling on the top plate which should add a little more mass and stiffness to the top plate.

The plinth has been changed again. Voids have been filled with Marine resin and areas which were cut out for idler arm cueing mechanism and the original tonearm have now been filled with 18mm birch ply. The tonearm section still needs a little work but should be an easy fix once I have a little time. I also wanted to get maximal top plate contact onto the plinth and with these mods I think I've managed to achieve it. I may even try 1mm or 0.5mm cork (or other materials) between the top plate and the plinth to add additional damping. I have now idea of additional mass that's been added but it's probably a couple of extra Kilo's.

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There is a massive void on the underside of the of the plinth which will eventually need filling but I need to make sure the tonearm is properly mounted (more pics when this is finished). There are quite a few other tweaks that I'd like to try but these shall have to wait as I need to assess the impact of the current list of mods. I really am nearing the end of the things that I can do with the deck in it's current state. I always fancied the "pan" modification where the 75's top plate in 100% in contact with the plinth and I've managed to achieve this. I just need to get the thing re-assembled and play some vinyl!

As ever Lenco addicts.... stay tuned..... :dance:

Wakefield Turntables

22-07-2018, 20:24

Tonights update - The Reference Lenco Pt LXXXX - Scraping the bottom of the barrel.

We've have nearly 85000 hits to this thread, lets get 100,000! Anyway I felt a but pissed off with the Lenco due to the fact that I'd done a LOT of work on the deck and then the bloody thing starts to scrape on the top plate :scratch:, well after a little research I found that the bearing's thrust plate to be the most likely suspect and low and behold I have a VERY worn thrust plate so that's been flipped and now everything appears to be ok, :pub:. Both platters spin endlessly and with no scraping to be heard.

The underside of the top plate now that's fully modded. This should be the final iteration, but, I do have one final idea that I might want to try :doh:.
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The 75 torn down and being tested, thankfully this through up some major bugs!
23845

The full extent of the top plate and plinth mods. The plinth still has some more mass to be added in and around the tonearm. I need some M4 thread before I can go any further, again hopefully final version for this bit of the plinth.

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Not bad for a deck that's still being tweaked. The idler arm still needs some work but that's part of the fun of this project.

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The deck is pretty much stripped down as far as it can go. I've maxed out the top plate surface area making contact with the plinth. I've added mass to the plinth itself. Component surfaces have been minimised. The bearing has been optimised. I just need to bolt this crazy contraption together and start listening. BUT, I still have a few bit's to do and I would sooner finish all the tweaks and then access the fruits of my labour. So close, yet so far!!!!!!

As ever stay tuned... :cool:

Barry

22-07-2018, 21:19

Part LXXXX (sic)? You do, of course, mean Part XC! :)

Jimbo

23-07-2018, 05:37

Sounds like you have a long way to go yet!:lol:

Wakefield Turntables

29-07-2018, 19:58

The Lenco Reference Pt XCI - Colin Chapman special :scratch:

Part LXXXX (sic)? You do, of course, mean Part XC! :)

Yep, but I do this roman numeral lark off the top of my head. ;)

Sounds like you have a long way to go yet!:lol:

Not as far as you might expect. I'll probably retire this thread at Part C (Happy Barry? :D)

Anyway the 75 has had a little more work, this is the full complement of stuff that I've managed to removed.

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This is how the 75 will finally look. The on/off switch has a steel cap. I may still file this down and have a really nice clean look. :hmm:

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I've had to make some new tonearm mounting threads. The tonearm is now bolted to an additional 18mm of birchply so the old jobbies had to go. Eventually the excess space will be filled with marine resin to improve plinth stiffness and mass.

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The top plate is going to need a strip and respray but apart from that we are very nearly at the end of this journey. I'm thinking that I might do a PTP inspired motor decoupling from the top plate and this would achieve something that I've always wanted to apply to this project. It will certainly be interesting to see if this can be achieved. Next update might be some time away and then Pt XCI & XCII will be updates on the sonic benefits (or not) or the current barrage of mods and then I have some experiments with more platter mats to discuss. I'm also thinking I might want to chuck some Ebony at this project.... ;)

As ever.... stay tuned..... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

16-09-2018, 19:49

The Lenco Reference Pt XCII - More mods than a Brighton convention....

I seem to be firing on all cylinders with respects to modding the 75. I've removed even more parts and seem to be on a mission to make the 75 as spartan as possible. I have a plan to removed the idler arm park, I intend to keep the idler arm held in place with either blutack which works extremely well at adding damping protection or going down the route of the Jan Nantais mod, either way I'm still following my design ideas of less chattering components and surfaces.

Highly modded 75 idler arm with Custom carbon idler and Wer modfications. Blutack mod holding whole thing together, and no arm park components.

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The bearing also got a little more attention. I have ordered the WER mods for the Jolly bearing, these come highly regarded and even Jolly who produces the bearings has suggested that they should add a nice lift to the performance of the bearing. I'm still waiting for these components but it's only a two minute job to get them installed. I shall lubricate the bearing with my special Martin Bastin oil I use on my modified Garrard 401 bearing. I have also added additional damping to the bearing brace in the form of a piece of Panzerholz I bought from a forum contact. I intend to then bond the bearing brace to the plinth with super strong contact tape, thus improving the coupling between the brace and the plinth, the brace will also be screwed into place to maintain the added stiffness that it adds to the plinth.

Modified bearing brace.

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The tonearm also had additional mods added over the weekend. The old tonearm mount looked something like this

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This was an extremely poor design as the original aluminium tonearm mount and birchply spacer were poorly coupled and the integrity of the spacer was compromised by three drill holes to accept the tonearm's mounting threads. I have now removed the mounting threads altogether and a possible sources of RFI/EMI into the tonearm, the mounting threads have now been eliminated. We now loose all the mounting threads, nuts, washers. Once again removing many interacting part. The tonearm spacer and original mount have now been coupled together with strong bonding tape and thus markedly improving the coupling. The new spacer has no drill holes which can only improved its integrity. Spacers can now be easily made, replaced and evaluated. The next two photos show the spartan nature of the 75 and the newly designed tonearm mount. I've added a slightly better picture just showing the tonearm and spacer.

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The new tonearm mount design will also be bonded to the top plate with super strong bonding tape. This can only improve the bonding interface between the tonearm spacer and the top plate. I sometimes wonder if it's better to trade the stiffness that mounting threads offer against improved bonding that bonding tape provides, who knows?

I've also been working hard on the plinth. I'm in the process of adding more mass to the plinth by filling more voids around the tonearm with marine resin. So far I've added an extra 0.5kg and I still have a little more to add. I have no idea of the plinths mass. I will post some more pictures in the next update. I also looking into ditching the on/off switch, the copper wire and several screws needed to mount this in place. I think I just need to add a supression cap in the motor and that should be it. I will probably salvage the original supression cap from the Lenco. This means I can then simply turn the Lenco on/off from the Nigels Speed controller. This will result in even more components being dumped. The deck now closely follows the principles of the PTP design in that I have minimised components and improved coupling. I will at some point look into decoupling the motor. I'm already looking at solutions but I think I now need to reassemble the deck and enjoy the fruits of my labour.

PS. The deck will also get a new paint job at some point...!!!!!! :lol:

As ever stay tuned....... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

23-09-2018, 20:10

The Lenco Reference Pt XCIII - Awaiting Mr. Postman....

The Lenco is now reaching end stage. It's broken down into all its (remaining) components. I've stripped things back even further and now I honestly think we are now at bare minimum. The top plate is getting a new paint job, hopefully it's last as I'm done with modding the top plate (for now)! I've polished the bearing. I'm now awaiting two packages, one from Germany with the bearing upgrades and one from London. The London package should include a wonderful new platter mat and some brand new motor springs. I remember requesting some new motor springs being made and being met with a wall of scepticism now, funnily enough a new batch have been made and sold out :trust:, seems no-one believed me that 40+ year old motor springs could deform. We shall how they perform in a few days. I can't wait to lash the whole thing together and see how it sounds. I'm also experimenting with some woods for the tonearm mount. I've started with ebony. I won't be straying too far as there are already quite a few known safe options i.e. bamboo, ebony, cherry wood. So, ebony is a starter and we'll see what happens from then on. Not much more to report so stay tuned.

brian2957

23-09-2018, 20:38

Hi Andy , got a link to the motor springs and platter mat ?

I use an SPH bearing so I don't think your bearing upgrade applies .

Wakefield Turntables

24-09-2018, 07:44

Hi Andy , got a link to the motor springs and platter mat ?

I use an SPH bearing so I don't think your bearing upgrade applies .

Brian, no link as such, if you contact Sien over on Lencoheaven, his nickname is SPH you should be able to order direct from him. Both upgrades mat and springs cost £<100 and sent by recorded delivery.

brian2957

24-09-2018, 07:54

Ah..Thought I remembered Sien doing motor springs Andy , didn't know he did mats . The other day I received 2 new idler springs from him . I'll drop him a PM . Thanks for the info :)

Wakefield Turntables

30-09-2018, 20:07

Tonight's update - The Lenco Reference Pt XCIV - LOADSA STUFF!

The 75 has undergone some serious work since the last update. The paint has been stripped for a start and we have filled in some holes along the way. I'm hoping this is going to be the last paint job for this 75. The top plate now sits in a very highly modded plinth of which very careful attention has been paid towards trying to generate the greatest amount of surface area bewteen the opposing surfaces of the plinth and the top plate, ultimately trying to produce the greatest amount of coupling surface area between the surfaces. I'm still in the process of modding the plinth as I think this can be tweaked further, not much, but still I think further gains can be made.

I've been tinkering with the electrics of the 75 and I'm happy to report that I've managed to dump even more components and here they are :-

24297

The whole idea of dumping components may seem strange. My logic is quite simple in that minimising interfacing surfaces, and components capable of transmitting EMI/RFI and vibration should hopefully lead to better deck performance (the jury is still out)!!!!!

The 75 really has been modded to within an inch of it's life. The bearing received several upgrades. Firstly the ball bearing was replaced was an uprated jobby to handle the additional weight of the new platter mat and dual the double heavy platters. The thrust plte was replaced with something that wouldn't warp under heavy loads and the oil was changed. The platters now spin for stupid long times.

24296

Now for something skin deep. The 75 received some new motor springs courtesy of Sien over on LH. I've also purchased a non-magnetic platter mat which I'm still assessing.

24298

And now for some details on things that you don't see. I've been paying very close attention to detail. The isolation plinth has now been properly levelled out. The 75 has also received new mounting threads, washers and nuts. The top-plate now sits flush to the plinth, something which didn't quite happen last time. I can now achieve greater amounts of coupling using a high powered drill with appropriate socket set :eyebrows:. The tonearm is now fully coupled to the top plate without the need of several mounting bolts and all the associated gubbins. The new tonearm coupling design allows assessment of new woods for the tonearm mount with minimal effort so this should extend experimentation for a little longer.

The motor is still a little noisy and need some work and I think I'll need to spend another week or two tweaking the deck before I'm happy to start assessment of all the new mods. Should be quite interesting.

As ever stay tuned and see you at some point in the future..... :cool:

brian2957

30-09-2018, 20:16

Good work Andy . What colour are you painting it ?

I'm also thinking about purchasing one of Sien's platter mats . Look forward to your feedback on this and all the other mods you've done :)

Wakefield Turntables

01-10-2018, 17:53

Brian, painting it the usual black colour. It will be some time before I review all the bits I need to be happy with the decks setup before I start to evaluate anything.

brian2957

01-10-2018, 18:13

Aye , my GL75 is a bit easier to set up than yours :D Probably doesn't sound as good though :)

Wakefield Turntables

14-10-2018, 19:42

Tonight's update - The Lenco Reference Pt XCV - Not so Crystal clear :brickwall:.

The 75 is sounding better than ever. I have had 2 weeks messing around and getting used to it's new "house" sound. I've spent some time using the excellent SPH SSS platter mat and and trying to find out it the latest range of mods have been beneficial. Well I got a real surprise. The SSS mat turned out to be more of a diagnostic aid than platter mat upgrade in that it highlighted a very obvious cartridge/phonostage gain mismatch. I was hearing simply too much treble energy so now I'm using my old Analog studio crystal mat which now appears to be giving even better results than the SSS mat. The deck is throwing out lots of detail but in a seemingly mellow manner, confused? Welcome to the club! The motor on the 75 is running a little loud whilst previously it ran to near silence, in all honesty you can only just hear it from 6ft away but it is something that I should address I suppose. The plinth could have a little extra mass added and I think I could probably get a little more marine resin in and around the tonearm voids, more mass and more damping control. The speed of the platter could be better controlled I'm running + 0.2/3 RPM at the moment, this is something that I'm not too worried about considering the deck is still in prototype mode. It still needs painting properly but at the moment I'm just enjoying the sonics.

The quest continues, as ever stay tuned..... :cool:

brian2957

14-10-2018, 20:50

Wakefield Turntables

18-10-2018, 09:25

So you reckon the Crystal mat is better than Sien's mat on the GL75 Andy ? Is this the one you're using mate http://www.analogueseduction.net/turntable-mats/analogue-studio-crystal-glass-turntable-platter-mat.html

I was thinking of upgrading the mat and your review has possibly come along at the right time .

Brian, didnt see this sorry for taking a while to reply. Yes, thats the mat I use. And the Jury is still out with respects to which is better on the 75, I'm a bit "plattered out"! I've had the crystal mat on the 75 and it does sound very very good. I think I probably need to do a side by side comparison, for the moment I'm enjoying the sonics whilst I'm building up my strength to do another comparison session!!!

brian2957

18-10-2018, 10:29

Lol ...Thanks Andy . Never been ' plattered out ' ...but there's still time :)

I will leave the purchase until you have posted your findings :)

Wakefield Turntables

21-10-2018, 19:55

Tonight's update - The Lenco Reference Pt XCVI - Tweaking external factors.

I'm listening to the 75 now as I type this. The latest round of mods have worked really really well. I'm listening to Jazz and I'm pleased to say that the tonality of things is truly fantastic. The Shure M55E has never sounded better and I wonder just how much more I can get out of this excellent little cartridge. Sometimes it pays to look at other areas which can be possibly tweaked. I decided purely by chance that tonearm cable capacitance was something that really needed to be looked at. I use a Nordost TYR mk 1 tonearm cable on the 75 and I have no idea of it's capacitance, several websites have stated between 11-25pf, that's not very helpful, so I emailed Nordost themselves to try and get an answer. Ideally I'd like my 834 modded so that I can change cable capacitance and make for a better matching between it and any cables I may wish to experiment with. Variable manipulation and flexibility is the key! I can't see myself swapping away from my EAR834 clone, it just sounds so good and whilst it's not the best phonostage in the world it's ok for me and the Lenco. I've also been messing around with the ECC83 valve again. I wanted to try the CV4004 variant and after a little looking around in my spares, I managed to find 3 which I've plumbed into the 834, these have replaced my Telefunkens for the time being and I'm having fun listening to them. I've been highly impressed with military valve variants especially the RCA 5691, so I wanted to spill this over to the Lenco and hence the CV4004 plumbed into the EAR 834 clone.
These tweaks are not turntable based but are based around the hardware that's needed to run the 75, it's an example of thinking outside the box.

As an aside I've been messing around with Platter mat's and have tried the SSS platter mat from Sien over on LH. This may is truly excellent but I decided that I wanted to retry the Analogue Studio crystal mat on the 75. This had previously been sitting around on my 1210 making some very very good noises, things moved up a gear when this thing was plonked on the 1210 and now I've done a complete swap!!!!! The SSS mat sits on the 1210 and has moved things up another notch and the 75 now sports the Crystal mat. So, the Crystal mat is my new reference mat on the 75. The Joly bearing brace has also been a bone of contention in that the platter can scrape the top plate if it's too tight, so it's been a careful, slow process of deciding just how much torque to apply to the brace nut. I don't want to loose the brace as it's a very useful mechanism further adding additional clamping to the bearing and the top plate to the plinth. The 75 is now nearly optimally set up and boy can you tell, cosmetically the deck looks like it's been through a war but boy does it sound good.

As ever, stay tuned.... :cool:

brian2957

21-10-2018, 20:08

Jimbo

21-10-2018, 20:11

Wakefield Turntables

21-10-2018, 20:15

Nice write up again Andy . Looks like it's the crystal mat for the GL75 then . I may well have to seek out another M55E again too :)

Thanks for posting your thoughts on the mats . Do you use anything else with the crystal mat ?

Thanks! Nope, just the crystal mat sitting on the double stacked platters. Some people over on LH have been talking about "chatter" between multiple surfaces i.e. two platters and a ruddy great platter mat. I wouldn't take too much notice as I think the sonic output is worth the investment. I think you'll easily get your money back if you don't like the crystal mat.

brian2957

21-10-2018, 20:24

Pity I have sold my M55e mate as you could have had it at a bargain price. :)

Hah ! Didn't have a turntable when you sold it mate :D

brian2957

21-10-2018, 20:26

Thanks! Nope, just the crystal mat sitting on the double stacked platters. Some people over on LH have been talking about "chatter" between multiple surfaces i.e. two platters and a ruddy great platter mat. I wouldn't take too much notice as I think the sonic output is worth the investment. I think you'll easily get your money back if you don't like the crystal mat.

Cheers Andy , haven't read that , think it's still worth a try though :)

struth

21-10-2018, 20:27

Got a spare 55 cart but not stylus

brian2957

21-10-2018, 20:33

Got a spare 55 cart but not stylus

Think I may have a spare stylus in my goody box mate :)

struth

21-10-2018, 20:38

Welcome to it mate. Not actually tried it but it should be fine. Bought it here a while ago and never used it. Let me know

brian2957

21-10-2018, 21:00

Yup , would appreciate that Grant , cheers. It'll give me a good reason to pay you a visit mate :)

You needing any cables ?

struth

21-10-2018, 21:12

Dunno. Lol.
Any time mate. Will look it out for you

struth

21-10-2018, 21:18

If you prefer u can pop it in post

brian2957

21-10-2018, 21:18

OK mate , let me know if you need anything meantime .

brian2957

21-10-2018, 21:20

If you prefer u can pop it in post

If you don't mind Grant , that would be great . You have PM .

Wakefield Turntables

28-10-2018, 21:04

Tonight's update - The Lenco Reference Pt XCVII - For what it's worth.... :nocomment:

Right, this thread is ending retirement in that I cant be arsed to be honest and attitude just pisses me off. So, I'll post and see what happens. The 75 has been going through a raft of optimisations to try and get the best from the current set up. I've been playing around with MM loading and apart from making a few errors have decided that this is the best port of call http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/60043/DB_Systems-DB_Systems_DBP-6_Phono_Capacitor_Loading_Kit-Any in trying to get optimal loading for the Shure M55E (HAPPY NEAL :rolleyes:). As an aside I had the happy error of finding out that my tonearm and m55e actually made a very good match in that the M55E has a moderate compliance of 25cu so in theory is a good match for the medium mass Alphason HR100S tonearm. It's a good idea to try and know the cartridge frequency, on line calculators are available. So, after a little messing around I found that my Shure/Alphason combo generate about 10.3 Khz, so I'm happy even though I got lambasted for a basic school by error.

I've started working on the cosmetic appearance of the 75 again and this time I have stripped back the platters to original metalwork finish but this time I've used wet and dry from 80 grit all the way through the 2500 and I now have x2 highly polished platters topped off with the Crystal platter mat. It looks very fetching and should look quite nice when the top plate is finished. The top plate need more work and shall probably be my little project over the next few weeks.

24500

The EAR 834 clone has had a little attention in that i've chucked in 3 Mullard CV4004 valves. Very good they sound too, jury is still out, but I'm leaning towards these over the Telefunkens, we shall see.

24501

As, ever, well, maybe not..................... :wave:

brian2957

28-10-2018, 21:31

All a bit technical for me Andy , however the GL75 , especially the plinth , looks fantastic . I must say , I really like that plinth :)

I quite fancy giving the M55E a try again . I did have a stylus in my box and Grant kindly sent me an M55E body but I think the stylus is knackered so I'll have to get another one .

It would be a great shame if you stopped posting your findings on these threads as they are a valuable source of information mate . Keep up the good work Andy :)

Stryder5

29-10-2018, 07:49

+1 ^^

Wakefield Turntables

04-11-2018, 20:42

Tonight's update - The Lenco Reference Pt XCVIII - Journey's End - NEARLY!

The 75 is sitting in bits across several levels of my house, I'm nearing end stage now and I feel I've gone as far as I can with the 75, inspiration may strike again at some point but I'm happy with the way the deck has progressed. TBH I'm now looking forward to spending a little time on the Garrard 301 project. The plinth has had a little more tweaking in that I've managed to add a wee bit more mass and I've stuff a little more marine resin under the tonearm area. The Alphason Tonearm will ultimately be mated with a Ebony tonearm mount to replace the birchply bodge job that i've currently got mounted on the 75's top plate. Every component on the 75 will get a strip down and service before I re-assemble and then the deck will be carefully setup and then left alone. I have another idea with respects to improving the coupling between the top plate and the plinth but this involves "sticking" the top plate onto the plinth via industrial grade double sided tape, I'm thinking maybe carpet tape, we'll see. I'd like to decouple the motor from the 75 but that's another story. So, be prepared guys for this thread to go into retirement pretty soon.

brian2957

04-11-2018, 21:01

Hope it all works out for you Andy . I'm sure you'll soon be looking for something else to be doing with your time :)

Wakefield Turntables

05-11-2018, 08:35

Brian, the idea is to finish with part 100and then I may (like Rocky) come out of retirement to update the thread! ;)

brian2957

05-11-2018, 11:23

Ah...can't do them fancy Roman numerals Andy :D

Wakefield Turntables

18-11-2018, 20:03

Tonight's Update - The Reference Lenco Pt XCIX - More fine tuning

I've been quiet recently and it's due down to rebuilding the 75 AGAIN! There have been a few changes made since the last update. Firstly I paid a little more attention to the top plate in that I refilled and sanded down specific areas to give it a better finish and it's also had a new lick of paint. I've also re-serviced the bearing again and I even re-polished the bearing spindle which is something that I've never done before I'm hoping that it may achieve some sonic benefit. I've also been paying careful attention to the tonearm coupling. The Alphason's non-magnetic aluminium mount is now better coupled to it's new EBONY mount which in turn is better coupled to the top plate. I went down the route of using highly adhesive carpet tape to mount the two together this has several very big advantages.

i) Virtually 100% coupling between all surfaces.
ii) Elimination tonearm mounting threads, nuts and washers.
iii) The tonearm mount is extremely well fixed in place.

The tonearm board is now made from Ebony, this is one of my favourite woods and has consistently shown sonic benefits over several decks. The new tonearm mount cost a rather princely £16 but this is far cheaper than having one made which would have been north of £60. It's amazing what you can find when you have the correct keywords. I decided to buy from a UK buyer for two reasons, firstly, it would arrive in 3 days and secondly I'm pretty certain I'm getting ebony and not a wood stained to look like ebony! Here's what I've purchased.

24700

The EAR 834 clone will be going to Mr. Firebottle for work. I'm having some RCA sockets fitted so that I can use loading jacks to improve the capacitance seen by the M55E, its a very cheap way of getting the cartridge properly loaded whilst at the same time enabling flexibility. This should reap some sonic benefits once it returns. I'm hoping to get this off in the next week. I've also been looking into how my Nigels Speed Controller has been powered and have been playing around with the power regulation settings on my PS Audio P10. I think I may have stumbled across a way of reducing motor noise into the 75's motor. To my ears the 75's motor sounds slightly quieter and the voltage regulation appears to be better controlled. I can only assume that wild fluctuations in the supplied voltage MAY cause the motor to surge and perform slightly louder, I'm only speculating but the motor does appear to sound better.

The 75 is nearly ready to be pressed back into service again but it will need to be carefully set up again. I intend to write a couple more parts to this thread and then hopefully start to concentrate on my Garrard 301. One of the instalments will detail how I think the deck can be further improved and hopefully at some point in the future I may resurrect this thread and then detail my further adventures with these modifications. The second instalment will be a review of how the 75 sounds. I intend to hunker down over Xmas and get a real feel for how the 75 is performing, I intend to give the deck a real shake down and hopefully get a great over view of its strengths and weaknesses. So, this is how the 75 looks right now. I've given it a new paint job and freshly polished both heavy weight platters. The Crystal mat has been freshly polished. The 75 is now waiting for the Alphason to be mated to the top plate and then we can spin some plastic.

24699

As ever, stay tuned... :cool:

brian2957

18-11-2018, 20:18

Looks fantastic Andy , unrecognizable , but fantastic nevertheless :)

Hope it sounds as good as it looks mate .

I'm listening to mine , in stock form , just now and it sounds very good indeed . Just shows what a versatile unit the GL75 is .

Wakefield Turntables

18-11-2018, 20:32

Brian, thanks! The Lenco really is a marvel of design. I know that I could push this 75 a lot further but I really need to know how this current iteration performs and then we could get really freaky! Just wait for the next update and I'll detail some of the ideas that I have for the 75!

brian2957

18-11-2018, 20:40

look forward to your finding Andy .

' Freaky ' should be interesting :D

Wakefield Turntables

25-11-2018, 20:26

Bah humbug, no update tonight still waiting for the ebony to make my tonearm mount and then a shed load of listening. I also have x3 JJ ECC83s kicking around to experiment with in the EAR clone, could they toppple the MULLARD CV4004's? Only time will tell!

brian2957

25-11-2018, 20:59

Oh well...until next time then :)

Wakefield Turntables

02-12-2018, 21:00

Tonight's Update - The Reference Lenco Pt C- Premature retirement?

We are now at part 100 of this decks development, evolution. I have done many things to the deck and I still think that I have lots more tweaking and buggering about with the deck before I'm happy. I managed to get my ebony armboard made. I have had a long love affair with ebony and have used it on several TT's over the years. It dampens things down quite nicely and fetches an instant improvement to the sonics of any deck. Ebony seems to provide a greater insight into what's recorded and adds so much more detail. I noticed an immediate improvement when I installed the ebony armboard over the birchply version that I had been using.

24811

The ebony armboard

Other areas that had been bugging were the platter speed stability and power going into the 75's motor. I have long suspected that variations of voltage going into the motor may have a negative sonic impact on the performance of the 75. I have been sing a NSC for quite some time and it does an excellent job. I have now found a second Phoenix engineering PSU and Tachometer, I have not fully installed them but they do have massive benefits over the NSC. Firstly the Pheonix unit attempts to clean up the power supply going into the Lenco's motor, I will already be supplying a pretty stiffly regulated and cleaned up power supply from my PS Audio P10 unit so the Lenco's motor should have some pretty good juice going into it. Now, the Pheonix tachometer is pretty cool and monitors the speed of the platter and provides speed correction to within .001 of a RPM which is far better than my current setup. I don't have to worry about voltage variations going into the 75's motor (or the effects on platter speed) or having to worry about the idler arms position and I won't have to externally measure the platters speed. In theory I could do away with the idler arm and externally mount the idler wheel which means that it won't be prone to motor vibration from the top plate. So, rather than decoupling the motor I just decouple the idler wheel. A decoupled idler wheel could be quite useful as it leads to the possibility of fine tuning the interface between idler wheel's edge and the platter. I don't know if this will produce any sonic gains but it's another area of experimentation. I have had the Pheonix system installed on my Garrard 301 for some time and it performs perfectly. I have also bought 10 ferrite chokes which I think add a positive effect and for £5 I can't really complain, theyt shall be used on the Pheonix system's cabling.
24814
Ferrite chokes

24812

The Pheonix Engineering PSU & Tachometer.

I've always banged on about the external things which make the 75 sound so good. Today I've been polishing the pins to my x3 Mullard CV4004 valves. I flirted with x3 JJ ECC83S valves and hated them. The JJ values just seemed to lack detail and sounded very very lazy in comparison to the Mullard valves. I must admit that JJ do supply many version of the ECC83 and perhaps they warrant more research but I was very glad to strap the Mullards back in place. The mullards provide a very forensic picture of anything which is recorded on vinyl.

24813

The x3 Mullard CV 4004's.

Now this project https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=30653.0 over on LH really interested me. This guy really has some very good ideas on how to fine tune a Lenco and I look forward to ultimately seeing what he intends to do with his deck. I quite like what he's done with the motor and I wonder if this is going to be the way that I progress with decoupling the motor.

So, overall I'm VERY VERY happy with the 75, the previous sets of modifcations have worked out quite well. The deck has never sounded better. As ever the 75 is a WIP and next time we meet I'll discuss some of the area's that I intend to explore. So, retirement (for the time being) looks like it's been temporarily shelved.

As ever, stay tuned :cool:.

Wakefield Turntables

04-01-2019, 21:43

Tonight's Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CI- More precision!

Yowzers! Here we are at part 101 of the Lenco Reference. I've been playing around with other decks and modding a Radford amp on the side. The deck has moved another step closer to potentially being in another league. After a lot of trial and error I have managed to get the Lenco running with my Eagle PSU, this is great news at it takes up considerably less space than my NSC unit, it also means that I now have access to a tachometer which can control the Lenco's speed to within +/- 0.001-3 RPM of 33 or 45 RPM :eek:. I have had to dump some of the fancy silver wiring and the chokes in favour of bog standard wiring but this may be altered at some point in the future back to silver. I'm just in the process of perfecting the setup.

The Eagle PSU powering the Lenco and the not so glamorous wiring.

2500125002

Now for something a little boring, damping factors. I did originally make some ebony footers for my Garrard 301 equipment rack but decided to see if they would fit on the Lenco deck, they do but they are a little thick so I need to find an alternative, and this has come in the form of a bamboo chopping board. I shall when time permits make 4 new bamboo washers for the top plate mounting threads. Currently I have 4 stainless steel washers rattling around in there and they have a damping factor of about 0.008 will bamboo easily beats this with a value of 0.200, this means that any vibration travelling down the mounting threads is going to have a much harder time travelling back into the plinth via the washers. So, in a nutshell less vibration should be travelling back into the plinth and ultimately the platter and vinyl.

The prototype ebony washers.

25000

Well that's it for another session. As ever stay tuned...... :cool:

Jimbo

05-01-2019, 07:18

Wakefield Turntables

05-01-2019, 21:39

The Pheonix PSU is a very good product. Well worth the brass, looks like they are going to update the design to maybe something better. The tachometer is the best bit. I've still got a few bits to sort out before I'm going back to the Lenco. Stay tuned!

Wakefield Turntables

09-02-2019, 18:28

Tonight's Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CII- Jolly holidays mini update..

The 75 hasn't been touched in ages and this is due down to my disorganised life! The EAR 834P clone has finally been sent to Mr. Firebottle I'm hopefully to get better cartridge loading and hopefully better sonics. The 75 will now take pride of place in all VALVE setup with a Radford pre and power amp. I'm very hopeful that we should get some great results. I have also seen a new platter dampening product available which costs £20. I'll maybe think about purchasing one in the future but I think that I need to get some grasp of the sonic nature of the deck in it's current guise before I can comment of the effects of future tweaks and upgrades. So, with not a great deal happening I'll sign off and await Mr. Firebottle to do his magic!

As ever, stay tuned... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

24-02-2019, 19:16

Tonight's Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CIII - The end of the long and winding road.

I think the 75 hs now been pushed as far as it can go and TBH I'm not really that bothered for trying to eek out any more performance from the deck. I'm actually more interested in getting the Garrard 301 as far up the sonic ladder as I can. There really isn't anything new happening on the Lenco scene as such and I think just about every tweak and mod that can be done has been done. I've had a lot of fun but now I think it's time to just enjoy the fruits of all that labour. So, farewell.

Wakefield Turntables

05-05-2019, 19:08

No the thread has not been resurrected (just yet), but I'd like to say a big thanks for all the people who have generated 100,000 views! :cocktail:

Wakefield Turntables

16-06-2019, 16:27

Tonight's Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CIV - What's this necromancy?

Just as you thought the old bugger was dead it suddenly becomes reanimated. I've not touched the 75 in quite some time in fact it's been sitting in the loft for a while whilst I decide what I want to do with it. I'm still a regular reader and contributor when the mood takes me. I've noticed that there appears to be a new motor and speed controller project over on LH and here it is https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=31895.0 I've put my name down for a full kit. It will probably take quite some time for it to arrive but that's ok as I'm restoring a Garrard 401 at the moment. Should be quite good fun. As ever stay tuned..... :cool:

Dr Henry Jones

22-06-2019, 10:36

Yep down as one of the worse things i ever bought.

Andre,i hear what your saying, the standard gl75 with its arm and plinth (to my ears) is nothing special at all, thats not to say its bad ......its just not for me. however the baring .the motor and the platter a different thing altogether, do you see me as buchering a run of the mill turntable that most hifi enthusiasts looked down there noses at back when they were on sale, or can you see that by modding these turntables they become much much more than the sum of there parts ? there was a time when you could pick up a nice condition gl75 for ten to fifteen quid at a boot sale , thats how little people thought of them so what is so wrong in turning one of these turntables into a very fine instrument for spinning youre vinyl on ? if they made a gl today with its platter and motor and baring plus a proper plinth and arm borde you would be paying for a lot of money for it, and they can sound extremely good , good enough to go up against high end............think of it like taking a austin allegro ( no redeeming features at all) and turning it into an aston martin rivale or a norman nippy moped into a vincent black shadow . regard steve

Wakefield Turntables

25-04-2020, 09:48

Todays Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CV - COVID 19 Special return from the dead (Again) post!

I've not looked at the Lenco for nearly 10 months. Nothing has really changed on the Lenco scene, no new upgrades. So, I'm going to dig the '75 out and see if we can tweak anything. Should be a good laugh! It's another good way of passing some time until the lockdown passes. I'll be posting my findings, presuming I can find anything else to do on the deck. So, stay tuned!

brian2957

28-04-2020, 11:54

:popcorn:

Wakefield Turntables

15-10-2020, 20:22

Todays Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CVI - Finally another update!

Well summat's brewin here in Yorkshire! I decided to have a go at making my own PTP inspired Lenco. I'll not be buying a PTP kit but simply making my own. So, I have a spare top plate that I found in the garage and I've now ordered a Dremel 4000 drill + kit to help me prepare the top plate. I intend making a whole new plinth of my own design and incorporating all those features that I dreamed up but never quite managed to install in my old '75 project. It should be fun, expensive and keep me entertained over Xmas.

Over and out....

brian2957

15-10-2020, 20:34

This sounds interesting Andy :)

Wakefield Turntables

18-10-2020, 19:56

Todays Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CVII - Coming together.

I managed to pick up my Dremel 4000 on Saturday and it's a beast. This project is going to be dependent upon a number of things. I've yet to price up Panzerholz and I have no idea how much I shall need. I'm probably going to look at the PTP .PDF that's floating around for the plinth design and then modify that to get the separate tonearm pod. The unique motor and PSU for this project is currently sitting in a far away country and still being repaired. I might start hacking the top plate up tomorrow if I get a little spare time to myself. It should be quite good fun. This will be my 4th Lenco project. It's quite slow going at the moment and I'm hoping to pick up some momentum in the next few weeks.

As ever stay tuned... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

29-02-2024, 20:32

Todays Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CVIII - A weird feeling in the loins (oo-er missus).

Yep, a carry on moment is ever there was one. I really really fancy doing a PTP 6 project with all my spare parts that I have kicking around and from all the messing around that I did when originally learning about how to mod Lenco's. I've fancied doing something for ages but haven't really had the inspiration. I think I really need to empty my loft and see what I have kicking around.

brian2957

29-02-2024, 21:16

Been a while on this thread mate. Looks like a great project, especially if you have all the bits already. Popcorn will be purchased tomorrow :popcorn:

Jimbo

01-03-2024, 05:55

Wakefield Turntables

05-05-2024, 20:23

Todays Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CVIIII - 200,000 not out!!!

HELLO! I can't believe this but the thread has had over 200K views and still people keeping looking in. So, here's something for all you Lenco dudes.

https://i.ibb.co/V9521cC/IMG-1120.jpg

This is an eBay purchase for a new Lenco deck that I had planned! It's a slow burning project which will act as a test bed for all the various Lenco bits and pieces that are on sale or have been produced in the past. The idea is to produce is MY ultimate expression of a Lenco GL75. A reference deck if you like. It will be pretty cool to pit this against my Garrard 301 and 401. This project is not designed to produce the ultimate Lenco, just my interpretation. So, opinions will vary, but it's just a whole load of fun. Should last another 200K views.

Stay tuned... :cool:

Jimbo

06-05-2024, 05:22

:popcorn:

brian2957

06-05-2024, 09:37

:popcorn: 200,002 :)

Wakefield Turntables

06-05-2024, 17:34

Todays Update - The Reference Lenco Pt CX- Under staters orders....

And we are off. I see a clear path with respects to what I want to do with this Lenco deck, and the answer is NOTHING! Well, I'm going very sympathetically restore the deck. This deck is only several weeks older than myself and I just couldn't possibly butcher the thing. It's a bit tatty in places but it's in very good order. I've noticed a few parts missing but I think I have these in storage and the rest should be very easily fixed. Presently the deck sits in quite a flimsy compressed wood plinth with a very flimsy 3mm hardboard base, it's teak veneered (very 70's) with a few scuffs. The base is a matt black colour with some scuffs and some glue marks. The top plate has a few very small areas of pitting. The tonearm is pitted and the back end is broken. I've not even got the thing spinning yet! I've done some very basic restoration work today. I cleaned the rubber platter mat and the rubber plinth feet with Autoglym rubber restorer and they have come up looking very nice.

The tonearm counter weight and slider weight have a very high gloss chrome finish, this was pitted, so today I have polished them both and results are acceptable for the moment, needless to say they will get more attention. And that dear friends is about as far I have got today. It's a slow burn process which I'll do in my spare time. I'm now in a quandry in I want to keep the deck as stock as possible. I'm not going to change any of the wiring other than the mains lead which needs to be properly earthed. I'll service the bearing and maybe the tonearm as well. We shall see!

Stay tuned.... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

14-05-2024, 19:59

The Reference Lenco Pt CXI - It's starting again!

OK, the experiment has begun! I will own two Lenco GL75's, one stock and one an experimental reference TT, I'll be keeping both. So, the old Lenco was purchased originally for parts but it was saved when I noticed that it was made only several weeks before I was born. So I decided to restore the deck and keep it as part of my collection. I've been wanting a new TT project for ages and haven't really seen anything that floated my boat. I never really finished my Lenco journey and I wanted to do so much more with the GL75 TT's. I have been quitely collected pieces of kit for the stock machine, I'll update you all in a later post. The first thing to do was repair the plinth. As we can see it's had a bit of a bash.

https://i.ibb.co/kMMgmV7/IMG-1125.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/bbKx8sJ/IMG-1126.jpg

The back end had been smashed in. The whole point of this experiment is to try and reproduce as close as possible how a stock GL75 would jave sounded in 1973 (when I was born). A smashed plinth is not going to achive this. :doh: So, after a little wood glue and a few clamps we have this.

https://i.ibb.co/WyxHKpC/IMG-1127.jpg

The underside of the plinth is still a very very clean and tidy black, I'll not be respraying this, there is no need, the paintwork is excellent. I have bought some Teak oil. I did manage to oil the plinth and this is now how it looks.

https://i.ibb.co/NZWVdfJ/IMG-1161.jpg

The rubber grommets which help protect the GL75 form vibration are knackered. Here we can see them removed from the deck and are very badly mishapen. The good news is that I have ordered a replacement set from Sweden! These Swedish grommets are about as close as your going to get to the originals.

https://i.ibb.co/bdgGRtW/IMG-1160.jpg

I have also cleaned the plinths rubber feet with cleaning products, they appear to be in good condition so I've kept these. There are other exciting developments which I'll detail as things arrive through the post. I will be replacing new parts on the deck and will over the next few weeks and months completely go through the deck. It's going to be a slo' blo' resto! The real fun will begin when I build the new reference TT and start comparing all the lovely new add-ons and upgrades that are now available to a lovely old stock machine.

Stay tuned... :cool:

Wakefield Turntables

19-05-2024, 18:32

The Reference Lenco Pt CXII - Bearing Up!

The experiment with the Lenco continues to gather pace. I've ordered several new and exciting things for the other half of this experiment, mainly the reference Lenco side of the experiment but that's for another update at some point in the future. I've been messing around with the Original Lenco GL75 and today I had some fun refurbishing the bearing. I have done no upgrades and kepy everything stock. So here are a few pictures....

This is the bearing before any work. As you can see a grubby 50 year old bearing.

https://i.ibb.co/T8b4LY7/IMG-1268.jpg

So this is the end of the spindle with 50 year old grease that had turned bad and very hard.

https://i.ibb.co/Nn36TBx/IMG-1270.jpg

Bearing dismantled before the proper cleaning starts.

https://i.ibb.co/vhjxWGj/IMG-1271.jpg

Everything ultrasonically cleaned.

https://i.ibb.co/SrmnLSp/IMG-1272.jpg

Lots of cotton buds and IPA

https://i.ibb.co/VSMq8YR/IMG-1273.jpg

Top of spindle, badly with some corrosion.

https://i.ibb.co/c3pfT6x/IMG-1274.jpg

Spindle now properly polished, cleaned down with IPA, ball bearing soaking in IPA to keep clean and before being reoiled.

https://i.ibb.co/c2WXf35/IMG-1276.jpg

Spindle and ball bearing freshly oiled just before assembly.

https://i.ibb.co/MDcdYq0/IMG-1277.jpg

Finally the bearing completely refurbished.

https://i.ibb.co/jZQgb9J/IMG-1278.jpg

Things are moving along nicely. Stay tuned....:cool:

Jimbo

19-05-2024, 19:12

Nice to have an ultrasonic bath just for the finishing touch! Looks better than new now Andy.:)

Wakefield Turntables

19-05-2024, 19:17

Thanks Jim, you can buy them cheaply enough on eBay and they really do make a difference.

brian2957

19-05-2024, 19:36

That's nice work Andrew. That plinth looks quite different from the one I had though.

Wakefield Turntables

20-05-2024, 16:27

Brian, this GL75 was made in Italy so I presume the plinth was made there as well.

brian2957

20-05-2024, 17:44

Ah..that probably explains it :)

Wakefield Turntables

24-05-2024, 18:58

The Reference Lenco Pt CXIII - A picture paints a thousand words.

So here is a picture of the stock Lenco. It's hiding a few secrets! I thought I'd detail what's been done so far.

https://i.ibb.co/N22cy36/IMG-1302.jpg

1. The platter has had a little polish. It's still not great and is a work in progress. I'll polish it a little every day or so until I'm happy with the finish. OK this is not strictly going to improve the performance of the deck but it sure looks nice!

2. Speed selector replacement. This deck had no speed selector and luckily I managed to find a fully intact one in my spares, so whilst not original to this deck it's colour perfect for the year the deck was made.

3. The platter mat. This was filthy, so the disc has been polished and the mat has been cleaned and treated to some Autoglym rubber repair.

4. The top plate. The paint work has been T-cut a couple of times and now shines, I notice a couple of bubbles under the paintwork but I like these and are part of the decks history. I polished the metal trim on the top plates base, again very dirty but now just looks factory fresh.

5. The bias weight. The screw was missing from the bias weight and a really helpful LH member sent me a replacement.

6. I've polished the counterweights on the tonerarm.

So, a few things still need doing. The tonearm needs a little cleaning and overhauling, new "V" blocks, better grounding wire, etc. The motor needs stripping and overhauling. I need to install new power cable, and a few other bits and bobs. Slow and steady wins the race.

Stay tuned.

Alex_UK

24-05-2024, 19:53

Looking great, Andrew. I’d completely forgotten 16rpm was ever a thing!

Jimbo

24-05-2024, 20:06

Wakefield Turntables

24-05-2024, 20:38

Looking great, Andrew. I’d completely forgotten 16rpm was ever a thing!

I've never never played a 16 rpm. I've never even seen anything on sale that resembles 16 rpm. What about this, 120 RPM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsc_PAK39oo

Looks nearly as nice as mine mate.:lol:

I've not even fired it up yet!

Lawrence001

24-05-2024, 20:54

Wasn't 16rpm used for spoken word records which didn't need to sound as good?

Wakefield Turntables

25-05-2024, 05:48

Wasn't 16rpm used for spoken word records which didn't need to sound as good?

Yes and yes! Plemty of clips on Youtube with 16 rpm records. Sounds quality not great but I would also suspect that recording quality varies from one disc to the next.

brian2957

25-05-2024, 11:39

Looking good Andrew. What did you use to polish the platter and are you using an M55E with this one?

Alex_UK

25-05-2024, 12:07

That 120rpm record sounds amazing given that it is almost as old as its revolution speed! Also notable that it play from the inside to the outside, the opposite of how most records play. Fascinating!

Barry

25-05-2024, 15:47

The Refelrence Lenco Pt CXIII - A picture paints a thousand words.

So here is a picture of the stock Lenco. It's hiding a few secrets! I thought I'd detail what's been done so far.

https://i.ibb.co/N22cy36/IMG-1302.jpg

1. The platter has had a little polish. It's still not great and is a work in progress. I'll polish it a little every day or so until I'm happy with the finish. OK this is not strictly going to improve the performance of the deck but it sure looks nice!

3. The platter mat. This was filthy, so the disc has been polished and the mat has been cleaned and treated to some Autoglym rubber repair.

Looking good Andrew, but I wouldn't use anything other than warm soapy water and a nail brush to clean any rubber turntable mat. After all your precious records come in direct contact with it, and any 'additives' could damage the vinyl.

Wakefield Turntables

25-05-2024, 17:54

Looking good Andrew. What did you use to polish the platter and are you using an M55E with this one?

I used a bench polisher and alongside several different polishing agents. It's still a work in progress and needs some more elbow grease. I've spent a fortune buying elbow grease from Halfords :eek:. I'm honestly not sure Brian what I'm going to use. Might be nice to try something a little different.

That 120rpm record sounds amazing given that it is almost as old as its revolution speed! Also notable that it play from the inside to the outside, the opposite of how most records play. Fascinating!

There are a few modern day records that play outside / in. I think Jack White released one.

Looking good Andrew, but I wouldn't use anything other than warm soapy water and a nail brush to clean any rubber turntable mat. After all your precious records come in direct contact with it, and any 'additives' could damage the vinyl.

Thanks Barry. I never really give it much thought but thanks for the heads up. ;)

Wakefield Turntables

26-05-2024, 19:48

The Reference Lenco Pt CXIV - If you know you know!

Sunday night, it's a bank holiday and another update. Well, it's a day off and an excuse to see what stuff I have lurking in the garage. Such oppotunities enable my to clear a little more space in the garage only to be taken up again in the attic! So the Lenco moves another step forward in that I have a few new things and routed out a few old things! The stock Lenco has benefitted from some TLC, it's still far from complete and still needs things like the tonearm, motor and platter refurbishing. I do these jobs when I feel like doing them, this is a fun project and not a chore. The platter is probably one of the most ignored part of any resto. I always check the underside of my platters for some clues. Here's the current stock platter

https://i.ibb.co/yVq09BB/IMG-1298.jpg

Now can anyone spot the two big problems here? Well firstly look at the amount of rubber on the underside of the platter, this will need cleaning away. Secondly, what does this say about the status of the idler wheel, assuming that it's still the same idler wheel. I haven't even bothered with checking the idler wheel at the moment, that's a job for another day. This platter needs a very good clean. Presently, that's exactly what's happening but in small sections, it's a labour intensive job but hopefully one which will yield good results. The idler arm and wheel can wait for another day. :eyebrows:

And here with have a photo of probably the only new part to be installed on the stock deck yet. New rubber bushes for the mounting springs on the plinth. As you can clearly see the old ones are completely knackered and probably offer no isolation whatsoever which prevents me from trying to get the deck sounding like something new and original which has just been released from the factory.

https://i.ibb.co/6rnjNrK/IMG-1295.jpg

The stock 75 has taken all the attention so far but here is the exciting bit. The first picture of the beginnings of the reference 75.

https://i.ibb.co/NTxXc0w/IMG-1303.jpg

Bamboo from another old project. I'm not spending silly money on Panzerholz or Permali. Bamboo is excellent and gives great results, take my Garrard 301 build as a reference. Now you can see the exciting bit, it's a PTP 5 kit. I have always said that I think the ultimate distillation of the Lenco GL75 has to be the PTP 5. It offers so many things that I wanted to with the original Lenco build which started this thread and now this moves these ideas forward and I can experiment to see if I can get the deck sounding any better than all that experimentation what went on all those years ago. I found some solid core copper cabling which I'll use, well it's free and solid core (according to some) sounds better than litz based power cables (WE SHALL SEE) :lol:, forgive the sceptical nature of my post. Finally we have an idler arm and wheel, these will not be staying "stock" for very long and let's just say we have some nice new things on order. I'll say no more until they arrive.

Well that's about it. Stay tuned!

Jimbo

27-05-2024, 06:02

Great to see a PTP5 build and I am sure it will become an awesome project with major sonic potential. Always wanted to hear one and may indeed build myself one someday.

Wakefield Turntables

27-05-2024, 07:54

Great to see a PTP5 build and I am sure it will become an awesome project with major sonic potential. Always wanted to hear one and may indeed build myself one someday.

I got this one at a slightly cheaper price 3rd hand! There is no time limit on this one, just a bit of fun to pass the weekends away.

Jimbo

27-05-2024, 08:06

I got this one at a slightly cheaper price 3rd hand! There is no time limit on this one, just a bit of fun to pass the weekends away.

Great project to have ongoing and as you say fun one to do in your spare time. I thought I would have a lot more time in my retirement to crack on with projects but I seem to have so much going on now it is nearly as difficult to fit stuff in as when I was working!

Barry

27-05-2024, 08:55

Andrew, what is the PTP-5 kit for a Lenco GL75? Is it the bits and pieces shown in the last image?

Wakefield Turntables

27-05-2024, 09:39

Andrew, what is the PTP-5 kit for a Lenco GL75? Is it the bits and pieces shown in the last image?

Here you go Barry every you ever needed to know about PTP! http://www.ptpaudio.com/ptp-audio.html Many hundreds of people have built wonderful TT's based around thids design. All you need is the gubbins from a Lenco GL75, a plinth, a few bits of wire and your away!

Jimbo

27-05-2024, 10:09

Another PTP project and this is the best one I have seen. If I did one it would basically be this.

https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=38364.0

Barry

27-05-2024, 14:52

Here you go Barry every you ever needed to know about PTP! http://www.ptpaudio.com/ptp-audio.html Many hundreds of people have built wonderful TT's based around thids design. All you need is the gubbins from a Lenco GL75, a plinth, a few bits of wire and your away!

Thanks for that Andrew. I'm a Thorens TD124/II man myself, but have some admiration for Goldring products. (Why is it a "Goldring Lenco" for the 70, 75 and 78 models, but plain "Goldring" for the 99? Does it have something to do with the G99 being armless?)

Wakefield Turntables

27-05-2024, 15:44

Thanks for that Andrew. I'm a Thorens TD124/II man myself, but have some admiration for Goldring products. (Why is it a "Goldring Lenco" for the 70, 75 and 78 models, but plain "Goldring" for the 99? Does it have something to do with the G99 being armless?)

I have no idea, Barry.

Wakefield Turntables

27-05-2024, 18:16

The Reference Lenco Pt CXV - It's alive, it's alive.....

The stock 75 has now been powered up and she spins and sings! Speed stability is ok, it seems to vary +/- 0.1 33.4rpm. I've not properly mounted the 75 in it's stock plinth, the motor and idler arm still need a service so this may help stability. The deck sitting uneven on a load of bamboo and carpet so I'm not too bothered about speed stability just yet.

I have spent the day polishing the underside of the platter and can confirm that I have removed nearly all the old rubber deposits from the last 50+ years of usage. I can still see a very thin circular mark around the underside of the platter but it sure is a lot better than it was, I also cleaned the spindle shaft on the platter, man lots of nasty stuff came from that. The motor is a little noisy and may will probably benefit from a decent service, this may help with noise, overall I have heard louder motor's on Lenco's so this one isn't that bad.

I can also confirm that the tonearm is working and in good order. Tonearm raise mechanism is in good order and the old cartridge a Shure M75 EJ is working ok. I didn't bother fine tuning the tonearm as I have lots of other stuff to do. I just wanted to see if we had two stereo channels and indeed we do. The antibias weight need rethreading and polishing but that's a job for another day. So work continues slowly and steadily. I will probably start work on the PTP 5 side of this experiment when I'm happy that the stock 75 is as good as I can get it. Work beckons tomorrow so updates and work on the deck will slow down. It's been a bank holiday frenzy.

Stay tuned.

Jimbo

27-05-2024, 19:04

Hey Andy looks like Lenco have been watching your thoughts and work with bamboo!:lol:

https://catalog.lenco.com/products/lenco-lbt-335ba

Wakefield Turntables

27-05-2024, 19:26

Hey Andy looks like Lenco have been watching your thoughts and work with bamboo!:lol:

https://catalog.lenco.com/products/lenco-lbt-335ba

Should have (c) the idea, bugger, no million £ bank balance this year then. :(

Qwin

28-05-2024, 11:22

Andrew, what is the PTP-5 kit for a Lenco GL75? Is it the bits and pieces shown in the last image?

Barry - As Andrew described it. PTP just stands for Peters Top Plate, he's based in the Netherlands.
I used the slightly later PTP-6 version.
Bought a running, but armless GL-75 off eBay for my project, it had veneer missing at the rear of the plinth and corner damage.
Here are the before and after shots.

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_00.jpg

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_4_01.jpg

Andrew - You might be interested in some of the tweaks I did.
I fitted the PTP disengager, that pulls the pulley off the motor spindle, to prevent the rubber tyre flatting (Black slider thingy).
Added a brake, visible on the left, Green PVC hose as the brake pad.
The Silver rimmed holes go right through the plinth to the feet and are used to level the deck with a screw driver plus the spirit level I sank into the Plinth.

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_02G.JPG

I also took the sharp edges off the laser cut plates, only where they are visible and likely to be touched (Red arrows), I think it looks better to.
Plus I added an extra fixing hole to the corner of the motor plate, it just looked wrong stuck out from under the platter without a screw (Yellow Arrow).

My motor had a slight noise as received, but became completely silent after I serviced/adjusted it.
Check out my build details here: https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Lenco_Thumbs.html

Good luck with the rest of your project.

Barry

28-05-2024, 11:30

Good find - I never thought much of the P77 tonearm.

Qwin

28-05-2024, 12:44

Good find - I never thought much of the P77 tonearm.

Yeh, the Mission Arm is a big improvement.
I had no desire to find and restore a P77.

Wakefield Turntables

28-05-2024, 17:57

Barry - As Andrew described it. PTP just stands for Peters Top Plate, he's based in the Netherlands.
I used the slightly later PTP-6 version.
Bought a running, but armless GL-75 off eBay for my project, it had veneer missing at the rear of the plinth and corner damage.
Here are the before and after shots.

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_00.jpg

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_4_01.jpg

Andrew - You might be interested in some of the tweaks I did.
I fitted the PTP disengager, that pulls the pulley off the motor spindle, to prevent the rubber tyre flatting (Black slider thingy).
Added a brake, visible on the left, Green PVC hose as the brake pad.
The Silver rimmed holes go right through the plinth to the feet and are used to level the deck with a screw driver plus the spirit level I sank into the Plinth.

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_02G.JPG

I also took the sharp edges off the laser cut plates, only where they are visible and likely to be touched (Red arrows), I think it looks better to.
Plus I added an extra fixing hole to the corner of the motor plate, it just looked wrong stuck out from under the platter without a screw (Yellow Arrow).

My motor had a slight noise as received, but became completely silent after I serviced/adjusted it.
Check out my build details here: https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Lenco_Thumbs.html

Good luck with the rest of your project.

Thanks Ken, a decent PTP you have there! I'm following your CDT project with great interest. I suppose the best place to hunt for PTP inspiration is the PTP sub forum over on LH. That time will come. I'm just chilling slowly getting bits and pieces. Should have some more stuff these weekend.

Wakefield Turntables

02-06-2024, 19:57

The Reference Lenco Pt CXVI - Bob, bob, bobbing along.

Things have been bubbling along nicely with this project, I see the project is getting a fair amount of interest with about 5K reads over the last few weeks. :wow: That's pretty good going. One of the great bonuses of being an audio nut is having bits and pieces from other projects kicking around your loft / garage / workshop or whatever. For me it's been a quick rummage in the attic and the garage. In the loft I managed to find two heavy platters from the original Reference Lenco project and some platter damping rings. The garage yielded a nice solid copper / gold plated IEC for the power supply. I did buy a motor from a famous auction site for <£25 delievered, it remains as yet untested. Looks like a bought a bit of a duffer. The motor splindle has signs of rust which isn't a great start but this does not worry me as I know this can be polished and usually made better than factory spec once properly you've gone through all the various grades of wet and dry. The motor also needs some springs so I shall see if I have a spare set in the spares box in the garage, I think I might be lucky! I also have a bearing which will need a full service and shall be used to get the PTP Lenco working, it will probably be changed for something better but it's a start! This could be my fun little project over the next few days after work, maybe modding the bearing. :)

https://i.ibb.co/T2v0065/IMG-1311.jpg

The first decision has been made about the design of the PTP Lenco and this is if the PTP is going to be sitting flush with the top surface of the plinth which will mean a messing about with a router is shall I just mount it screwed directly to the plinth. Errrmmm, it's getting screwed, or maybe bolted. I haven't decided yet. I'll probably go down the route bolt/washer to make the interface bewteen plinth and PTP as bonded as possible. I did something similar to my Garrard 301 plinth that I designed and I think I got pretty good results with that. So that's actually, possibly, two decision made !?! Now the other side of the experiment, the stock lenco has recieved very little attention. I was going to fit a better power cable this week but just jad no time. I did polish the underside of the platter a little to try and remove 50 years worth of rubber. The picture dosen't really show much progress but I can tell you that it does look a lot better compared to when I first purchased the deck. As ever, slow and steady wins the race with this project, you have to remember I'm doing two Lenco's up at the same time. Anyway, here's a rather uninspiring picture of the underside of the platter.

https://i.ibb.co/9G0VzX7/IMG-1312.jpg

Well that's about it for this week so stay tuned.

Wakefield Turntables

09-06-2024, 19:58

The Reference Lenco Pt CXVII - Rethink....

Tonights update is all about the Reference side of things. The stock Lenco has taken a bit of a back-burner for the time being, but then again this whole project really is a slow burner. I'm always happy to try new stuff especially from the people that support the forums and the more I do "Audiophile" the more I realise that you don't have to put up with the bullshit prices that companies feel able to charge. The Rerefence Lenco was going to have a specific bearing and double stacked platter but now I think I'm going to go with a custom bearing, bearing collar and platter combo from Malaysia. I've never tried them before, so why not? All products will work with the PTP 5 so happy days. I've also been thinking about the motor. The first thing to do was to get the thing up and running to see if it worked. Well I didn't trust the dodgy two core wire that the thing came supplied with so I added a new earth lead and chopped a 3 core fused power lead from an old fridge freezer.

https://i.ibb.co/1b0BGLv/IMG-1317.jpg

I'm glad to say that things kicked into life. The motor is noisy but it does need some work and we knew this anyone, just check out the status of the spindle :eek:. So, at some point I'll bite the bullet and service the motor, time always seems to be short nowadays. I also decided that I needed a new set of motor springs considering this unit was missing said piece of very important kit. I just so happens a man that can, so I'll be having brand new springs rather than some which are ? approaching 50 years old. I will also be treating the reference Lenco to a new idler wheel and idler arm grommet but that's another story for another post.

Well that's it for another week, stay tuned.

brian2957

09-06-2024, 20:54

I did the same earthing mod to my GL75 when I had it Andrew. I see SPH has expanded his shop then. The collars are very good and that platter mod certainly looks worth a try, although it is expensive. I'll be interested in reading your thoughts on these when they arrive.

Are you getting the idler wheel from Audiosilente?

See if you can get a hold of one of these Andy. They worked for me https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=21002.0

Wakefield Turntables

09-06-2024, 21:02

Hi Brian, the platter is probably one of the cheapest you'll see when compared to other companies, but yes will cost a few quid. I'm going for the Stealth Idler wheel, this will be a brand new idler wheel and not something that's 50+ years old.

brian2957

09-06-2024, 21:06

That idler wheel is a new one one for me. Looks good though.

See if you can get a hold of one of these Andy. They worked for me https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=21002.0

Jimbo

10-06-2024, 06:27

good idea to change the wiring , I did the same. I Had fun centering the motor in the housing to make it run quiet and then nip up the cone bearings to stop them making noise! A lot of fiddling but worth it. As you know mate you can get them to run almost totally silent.

Qwin

10-06-2024, 07:44

If you are going to use the SPH bearing Andrew, you might want to see the mods I did to the top of the spindle and the bottom bracket I created to steady the whole thing. I used the SPH Copper mat and a 5mm acrylic mat between it and the Platter. The resulting sandwich is very inert compared to the bare platter, which rang like a bell.
Its all on my site, linked in my signature.

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_02J.jpg

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_02K.jpg

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_02K2.jpg

https://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Lenco/Pics/Lenco_02K3.jpg

Jimbo

10-06-2024, 10:57

Nice bit of engineering.

Qwin

10-06-2024, 11:30

Nice bit of engineering.

Thanks Jim
The most remarkable aspect of all the work I do, is that I don't have access to machinery or a covered space to work in, so its all done with hacksaw and file outside.
The only power tools I have, is a small bench grinder, a small pillar drill a small linishing belt and a basic router. I clamp them, one at a time, to my folding Black and Decker type work bench and use them in the back garden, weather permitting. Though I say it myself, I've made some good looking stuff over the years, without a workshop or machine tools. I can use a lathe and vertical milling machine, I just don't have access to either. So the design challenge, is as much about finding a way of using or adapting existing parts, as it is about solving the problem with bespoke engineering solutions. Where there's a will, there's a way, as my old man used to say.

Jimbo

10-06-2024, 12:15

Thanks Jim
The most remarkable aspect of all the work I do, is that I don't have access to machinery or a covered space to work in, so its all done with hacksaw and file outside.
The only power tools I have, is a small bench grinder, a small pillar drill a small linishing belt and a basic router. I clamp them, one at a time, to my folding Black and Decker type work bench and use them in the back garden, weather permitting. Though I say it myself, I've made some good looking stuff over the years, without a workshop or machine tools. I can use a lathe and vertical milling machine, I just don't have access to either. So the design challenge, is as much about finding a way of using or adapting existing parts, as it is about solving the problem with bespoke engineering solutions. Where there's a will, there's a way, as my old man used to say.

Indeed Ken I think we all have to improvise with our engineering on these projects as often you only use a lathe etc a couple of times although I am sure you could find more stuff to do with one?:) There are some folk over on Lenco heaven who obviously have access to a wide range of equipment and also have the skills to use it unlike myself!:doh:

brian2957

10-06-2024, 15:40

Thanks Jim
The most remarkable aspect of all the work I do, is that I don't have access to machinery or a covered space to work in, so its all done with hacksaw and file outside.
The only power tools I have, is a small bench grinder, a small pillar drill a small linishing belt and a basic router. I clamp them, one at a time, to my folding Black and Decker type work bench and use them in the back garden, weather permitting. Though I say it myself, I've made some good looking stuff over the years, without a workshop or machine tools. I can use a lathe and vertical milling machine, I just don't have access to either. So the design challenge, is as much about finding a way of using or adapting existing parts, as it is about solving the problem with bespoke engineering solutions. Where there's a will, there's a way, as my old man used to say.

I think that's quite remarkable Ken. All those pieces look like they have come out of a machine shop.

What's the idea of the spindle with the Allen bolt on top BTW?

Barry

10-06-2024, 16:01

I think that's quite remarkable Ken. All those pieces look like they have come out of a machine shop.

What's the idea of the spindle with the Allen bolt on top BTW?

I was going to ask that: in fact which of the pairs of photos is the stock item and which is the modified item?

Qwin

10-06-2024, 18:52

I think that's quite remarkable Ken. All those pieces look like they have come out of a machine shop.

What's the idea of the spindle with the Allen bolt on top BTW?

On the first picture, the Stock bearing on the left, SPH bearing on the right.
Second picture, stock SPH bearing spindle on the left, for a single Lenco platter, if you use two platters stacked, you take the bolt out and screw in an extension which has a domed top.
I think this is a bit of a compromise to far, for the single platter users like myself. Looks poor and can damage the record/label in my opinion.
I modified it, took the bolt out, screwed in a longer stainless bolt fixed with super glue, I then cut it flush and rounded the top with a grinder and successively finer abrasive paper and polish to finish. You would never guess there's a bolt down the centre, (spindle on the right). It looks better and is much nicer in use.
I didn't want to hijack Andrews thread, so the pictures were just a taster, as I pointed out, the full story can be found on my blog, linked at my signature.

brian2957

10-06-2024, 19:35

Good thinking Ken :)

Wakefield Turntables

12-06-2024, 20:26

Thanks Ken, lots of food for thought! It's always great to see what other people have achieved.

Qwin

12-06-2024, 20:59

Thanks Ken, lots of food for thought! It's always great to see what other people have achieved.

Yeh, I spent quite a bit of time going through the Gallery and various projects on Lenco Heaven, some great stuff on there.

diviy

23-06-2024, 00:17

Andrew give a PM with your contact number I can help with the plinth!!!!!!
Regards Gerry

diviy

23-06-2024, 00:19

Andrew I can help with the plinth PM your no.
Regards Gerry

Wakefield Turntables

06-07-2024, 17:55

The Reference Lenco Pt CXVIII - Idle bugger!

It's been a wee while since anything got posted on this project. It's not been canned, it's just very slow blow and I have two or three other ongoing projects which also take up that valuable commodity, time. The motor I purchased is just plain rubbish, it rattles like a trooper and it's just not worth the continued time or effort, it's been rebuilt twice, fully stripped clean, coils centred and all the usual gumph needed to get the thing whisper quite. All to no avail. I decided to salavage another motor from an older build which I know to be very very quiet. I may have wasted £40 on that other motor but at least I'm happy with the direction of the project and I know that this new build will have the best motor in my collection. It is after all supposed to be a Reference Lenco (well my Reference). It's also a bit weird because I don't have a spare tonearm for this deck even though I have a collection of 6 floating around at home. I really fancy something a bit different but as always I never seem to have any time to research these things.
Anyway guys, not much more to report. Stay tuned...

Jimbo

06-07-2024, 18:14

Is this still going to be a PTP project?

Wakefield Turntables

06-07-2024, 18:24

Is this still going to be a PTP project?

Yes Sir!

Jimbo

06-07-2024, 18:52

Yes Sir!

:thumbsup:

brian2957

06-07-2024, 18:53

You need to concentrate on the PTP project Andrew. The rest can wait until it's done :eyebrows:

Wakefield Turntables

07-07-2024, 17:37

You need to concentrate on the PTP project Andrew. The rest can wait until it's done :eyebrows:

I have several projects.

1. The 301 Restoration project - Well this is actually more about how to get the best from the 301.
2. Vintage MM project - This is the 401/SME V-12 turntable with a Stanton 831S strapped on for good measure.
3. Lenco 75 Original - This is just a restoration project of a classic Lenco GL75 stock standard.
4. The Reference Lenco - This is my attempt at making the best Lenco I can.
5. Special secret Monoblock Project - Oh dear. not so secret anymore!

As you can see I flit between these projects, all slow-blow projects, no rush.

Barry

07-07-2024, 20:24

I have several projects.

.....

5. Special secret Monoblock Project - Oh dear. not so secret anymore!

As you can see I flit between these projects, all slow-blow projects, no rush.
I'm interested to learn about your "secret Monoblock Project". I'm a great believer in using monoblock power amps, located as near as possible to the speaker. Will your Project involve Croft power amps?

In my system I use either Quad 510 monoblock amplifiers, or modified and 'monoblocked' 405-2s, located directly behind a Quad 57 speaker. The speaker cables are less than a metre long (actually 30cm), and the amplifiers are fed by balanced line cables that run under the floor back to the preamplifier and source components.

Wakefield Turntables

07-07-2024, 20:43

No Croft. It's something from the far East They have not arrived yet and they will function in either balanced / unbalanced mode. They are cheap/cheerful but should be a lot of fun. I did the 405-2 a while back and was not impressed. I love Quad gear, maybe I had a dickie amp?!!? I had a full 77 setup a full years ago. shouldn't have sold it but it was never used. I have lusted over a Quad II system but I think I'm happy with current Radford / Croft gear i own.

Wakefield Turntables

09-02-2025, 19:20

The Reference Lenco Pt CXIX - Silence is indeed golden!

Surprise surprise (as the great Cilla used to say). I did say that project was a very slow blow thingy and that time really wasn't that important. Well other projects have been finished and a couple are coming to an end so I have some time now to do what I wanted to do a good number of years ago and create a Reference Lenco. I've been hindered by noisy motors, I've now gone through three and I've found an absolute peach. This motor is SILENT. So, I have platter, I have a motor, I have idler wheel, I therefore have everything for a Lenco GL75 to be made. I'll be making a Bamboo plinth and I shall be using the PTP KIT that I bought umpteen years ago. It just so happens that many new upgrades have been made for the GL75 since I first started messing around with the idea of a reference Lenco. It looks like I'll be happy for another year tweaking and building.

Stay tuned.....

Wakefield Turntables

16-02-2025, 19:29

The Reference Lenco Pt CXX - 247,718 and counting

Well we are now moving in the right direction. I've placed my order for a new bearing and a new platter in a bid to find out what makes a reference Lenco. I've now got a selection of idler wheels to try. My original favourite was a prototype of Norberts Idler wheel. I see that there are several other new products which appear to be different and have started making waves in the Lenco community. I'm looking at new tonearms and also new carts. I really fancy usiing this new build as a test platform for stuff that I have always wanted to try. I may also have a new power supply as well, depends on if it can be fixed. I now have three bearings to try as well. So, overall just collecting bits togther.

Stay tuned...

Wakefield Turntables

16-03-2025, 18:07

The Reference Lenco Pt CXXI - What's going on?

It's been a month since anything got posted on this project and it sure is living upto it's status as a slow-blow thingy. It seems that this topic has been viewed another 6352 times, so I guess a small update is needed just to keep people in the loop. I'm presently waiting for a new platter and bearing from Malaysia I should hear something this month (hopefully)! Otherwise I'm nice and cosy sipping tea and typing this from the listening room. The Lenco Reference project is sitting on the floor to my right and it's mighty glad that's it's not outside where it's raining and generally a bit gloomy and naff. Funnily enough this project has been partly self funded by selling off old bits of kit. I did make myself a promise some time ago to decrease the size of my collection and minimise spend on hi-fu "stuff". So, you Malaysia to blame for the malaise in this project. All I can say is

Stay tuned.......

Wakefield Turntables

05-04-2025, 18:31

The Reference Lenco Pt CXXII - Long shot

Saturday night, now whiskey, lovely cup of tea, some Miles Davis and a little, teeny-weeny update for the faithful that follow this slow-blow project. I managed to score another Pheonix Engineering Eagle PSU, Roadrunnner Tachometer, and 25W TT PSU. These were really purchased as spares if my Garrard 301 system fails, so technically they are spares, BUT, I decided to use them on the new Lenco project. I have a problem! The problem is that the 25W PSU does not want to power up the Eagle PSU which is supposed to be attached :doh:. I've done a little detective work and found that the 25W is somehow faulty as I've checked all the other leads and components which work without fault. So, it seems to be one step forward and about 100 steps backwards. Still, I'm blessed with persistance. I've found a couple of PSU repair specialists on the net, so, next week, it looks like I'll be making a few phone calls. It may be worth the expense as Pheonix Engineering stuff NEVER comes up for sale.

As ever Lenco buddies stay tuned...

brian2957

05-04-2025, 19:34

That's a good find Andrew. I've never heard a GL75 with an external PSU, would love to hear this combo. Hope it's not too expensive to repair mate.

Wakefield Turntables

06-04-2025, 15:12

That's a good find Andrew. I've never heard a GL75 with an external PSU, would love to hear this combo. Hope it's not too expensive to repair mate.

Yep, I'm hoping my wallet will have an easy time as well. To be honest Brian, these PSU's are so well made it's the expense as it's something that I'll never sell and probably form part of my nucleus collection of gear. I've flogged quite a bit of stuff this year so the hobby doesn't owe me anything this year, (YET)!!

Wakefield Turntables

10-04-2025, 19:38

The Reference Lenco Pt CXXIII - Malaise in Malaysia

Hello AOSer's another day another update. I've heard nothing from Malaysia and it's holding up the project, so I think I'm probably going to get a prototype PTP version up and running before the end of the year, well that's certainly the idea. I have everything I need to get started. Here's a couple of pictures showing some of the goodies. Firstly a Pheonix engineering PSU and tachometer and I tonearm cable for an as yet unpurchased tonearm! I've sent the PSU for the Pheonix Engineering kit for repair, here's hoping they can do something with it. I sent it a couple of days ago and I'll give them a call tomorrow for an update :popcorn:

https://i.ibb.co/Pv9RBGRG/IMG-1838.jpg

And now for some some fun! You'll notice we have three idler wheels to play with.

https://i.ibb.co/hGb0zZx/IMG-1837.jpg

The Norberts Idler wheel disc was the best of the bunch from when I first started experimenting, newer products exist but I shall keep using the Norberts Idler wheel for the start of this experiment. You will also notice a Jolyon bearing attached to my old Reference Lenco. I shall be using the Jolyon bearing as this was the best from my previous days of experimentation. And finally just a picture of some the pile sitting on my listening room floor.

https://i.ibb.co/gFV0qMYG/IMG-1839.jpg

Stay tuned....