View Full Version : VFM/SPPV studio cables test
I am in no rush to part with my SLICs and not relishing being without my sounds however short that might be. Why don't you get your wallet out and have the full 30 days to play with them ya tight fisted bugger...
Lol - well, I have a strict policy whereby I only audition stuff that I have the intention of possibly buying. £500 for a pair of interconnects is not where my head is at just now, even though I've used rather more expensive cables in the past.
So come on, Frank, we agreed on the phone that you would loan me your Slics (and you seemed quite keen about it at the time).
I hear ya, in terms of being without your sounds, so what about if you send them to me and I promise you'll have them back the day after I receive them? I'll only need a few hours to assess what they're doing, so if I receive them in the morning, then I'll return them to you the same day by Special Delivery, before the Post Office shuts, and you'll have them back guaranteed before 1pm the next day.
How about that? :)
Marco.
Well yes that would be interesting, one thing I’m pretty sure about though is that the effect of ‘speaker, room and amplifier matching swamp/dominate/have priority over any differences a cable will make...
I completely agree with that, as I do with Andy, that signal cable effects are always relatively subtle in comparison with the above. Whilst, like you, I can quite clearly hear differences with plugs and interconnects, they are never of the 'night & day' variety, and in my opinion, nor should they ever be.
I heard SLIC today but not in an environment that was in anyway capable of resolving cable differences unfortunately.
Where was that, Neal, Owston? Despite the non-ideal environment, what was your gut reaction towards them?
I never found the Gothams 'Brash' quite the opposite in fact, veiled in the treble certainly but not 'brash', the Klotz I found to be more open and able to convey Cymbals and decay very well.
What we must all be careful of is posting in absolutes, hi fi forums seem to be awash with absolutes and as we should all know what works for one person in the confines of their own environment may not necessarily work in another.
I completely agree on all counts, especially in terms of absolutes.
However, how Frank could find the Gothams as "brash sounding" is indeed a bit of a mystery, but then when we chatted on the phone, he described the sound of other cables I've used sounding to him the polar opposite of how they did here, so quite clearly the overall balance of Frank's system is very different to that of mine and/or our ears analyse differences in a completely different way.
Marco.
I have to say I find this quite incredible. :scratch: Swapping cables rarely make any difference if any in my systems, and I've never heard any of the symptoms (if that's the right word) you describe, usually only a barely perceptible tilt in balance between bass or treble.
For different cables to have such a profound effect you must have a system capable of resolution far beyond anything my systems are capable of. What are you using?
It all depends on the rest of the system. Over the years of using a ton of different equipment I have come to the conclusion that some systems are more prone (not more revealing) to showing up cable differences. For example juts a couple of weeks ago I swapped in a different cable between pre and power as the system had developed a hum which I had traced to the previous cable. This eliminated the hum but a could not escape the niggling doubt that things no longer sounded as 'right' as they had previously. We then had the LDR pre amp bake off. With both LDR pre amps the system sounded near perfect again, but swapping back to my old pre that niggle was there again. After a lot of listening I was playing 'Riders on the Storm' and could finally hear some distortion in the sound which must be a result of the combination of my pre-amp, the replacement cable and the power amp. It was obvious on that track but not on the rest of the album, although it was still there of course.
I'd suggest that if you are never hearing cable differences with your kit it may be because it is extremely well matched particularly the pre-amp/amp section. In other words the opposite of 'modern thinking' which is that the better the system the more it will show up cable differences. It's only as hypothesis you understand but if true it would answer quite a few questions.
I completely agree with that, as I do with Andy, that signal cable effects are always relatively subtle in comparison with the above. Whilst, like you, I can quite clearly hear differences with plugs and interconnects, they are never of the 'night & day' variety, and in my opinion, nor should they ever be.
Where was that, Neal, Owston? Despite the non-ideal environment, what was your gut reaction towards them?
I completely agree on all counts, especially in terms of absolutes.
However, how Frank could find the Gothams as "brash sounding" is indeed a bit of a mystery, but then when we chatted on the phone, he described the sound of other cables I've used sounding to him the polar opposite of how they did here, so quite clearly the overall balance of Frank's system is very different to that of mine and/or our ears analyse differences in a completely different way.
Marco.
The word best used to describe the Gothams is "unsophisticated" and my use of the word "brash" may not be what you would perceive that to be, because it is still an entirely subjective term and we all have to live with the inadequacies of the language. The Gotham cable now is living in the wife's little TEAC system and there it still sounds "unsophisticated", although the missus doesn't complain.
I have to say I find this quite incredible. :scratch: Swapping cables rarely make any difference if any in my systems, and I've never heard any of the symptoms (if that's the right word) you describe, usually only a barely perceptible tilt in balance between bass or treble.
I think everyone here is missing the point with the SLIC cable. My system is indeed modest and this blessed cable cost me more than the rest of my kit put together. Time after time now I have read that people have dabbled with cables costing huge amounts of money and they could only hear subtle differences in tonality or an up/down balance of treble to bass ratios, certainly not any night and day kind of differences. The SLIC cable is very much unlike other cables in that is doesn't produce startling results with lots of impressive fireworks that grabs your attention immediately.
For different cables to have such a profound effect you must have a system capable of resolution far beyond anything my systems are capable of. What are you using?
Nope, my system is a Thule 60 watt integrated fed by an Original 2008f CD player into a pair of JPW AP3s, all bought secondhand. Sounded OK to me until the SLIC cable went in and now it sounds better than any system previously owned costing thousands and by golly I've had some over the years. It does not sound like "hi-fi" at all it just fills the room with sweet natural music that draws you in more and more, so much so it's hard to switch the system off.
Iother cables in that is doesn't produce startling results with lots of impressive fireworks that grabs your attention immediately.
.
I've never heard a cable do that. Small changes that are only blatantly apparent with some material is my experience.
Where was that, Neal, Owston? Despite the non-ideal environment, what was your gut reaction towards them?
Yes, Owston Marco. I really cannot say, there was so much else going on with 'speaker swaps, SUT swaps, phono stages swaps, back ground noise and chat it was impossible to form any opinion. They look nice though!
BTH K10A
08-06-2014, 08:32
I think everyone here is missing the point with the SLIC cable. My system is indeed modest and this blessed cable cost me more than the rest of my kit put together. Time after time now I have read that people have dabbled with cables costing huge amounts of money and they could only hear subtle differences in tonality or an up/down balance of treble to bass ratios, certainly not any night and day kind of differences. The SLIC cable is very much unlike other cables in that is doesn't produce startling results with lots of impressive fireworks that grabs your attention immediately.
Nope, my system is a Thule 60 watt integrated fed by an Original 2008f CD player into a pair of JPW AP3s, all bought secondhand. Sounded OK to me until the SLIC cable went in and now it sounds better than any system previously owned costing thousands and by golly I've had some over the years. It does not sound like "hi-fi" at all it just fills the room with sweet natural music that draws you in more and more, so much so it's hard to switch the system off.
I'm a bit confused here, you say the SLIC doesn't produce startling results but then say it raises the performance of a modest system that sounded OK to the best you've ever owned including ones that cost thousands.That's certainly startling to me.
What will it do for my Binatone :hmm:
That bloody Slic just won't go away will it? :rofl:
Mr Kipling
08-06-2014, 09:22
12639I've just bought one of these - and saved myself at least a grand on cables! The cd is faulty but what I've saved on cables I can get it repaired - and still be quids in! The tuner section is said to be pretty good and it delivers 3 of the finest watts money can buy being Single-Ended Class A.
Gotta think outside the box, lads!
Happy Days!… Happy Days!…
The word best used to describe the Gothams is "unsophisticated" and my use of the word "brash" may not be what you would perceive that to be, because it is still an entirely subjective term and we all have to live with the inadequacies of the language. The Gotham cable now is living in the wife's little TEAC system and there it still sounds "unsophisticated", although the missus doesn't complain.
Ok, no worries... So what about my offer here:
So come on, Frank, we agreed on the phone that you would loan me your Slics (and you seemed quite keen about it at the time).
I hear ya, in terms of being without your sounds, so what about if you send them to me and I promise you'll have them back the day after I receive them? I'll only need a few hours to assess what they're doing, so if I receive them in the morning, then I'll return them to you the same day by Special Delivery, before the Post Office shuts, and you'll have them back guaranteed before 1pm the next day.
Surely you can do without your Slics, dude, for one day, which will allow me to assess, and report on the forum for the benefit of others, perhaps looking for an alternative view to those already posted, what all the fuss is about? I'll pay for the postage both ways, if you like :)
Marco.
Thule IA60? Interesting....
Ok, no worries... So what about my offer here:
Surely you can do without your Slics, dude, for one day, which will allow me to assess, and report on the forum for the benefit of others, perhaps looking for an alternative view to those already posted, what all the fuss is about? I'll pay for the postage both ways, if you like
Marco.
Sounds good. Look forward to the comparison.
I really struggle (to be honest, not that much of a struggle) with the credibility of using an interconnect more expensive than the actual components it connects - you would really have to be a 'cable believer' of the first order to think that is an appropriate way to apportion funds!
Reviews of the Thule amp look very encouraging. It looks to be a 'proper' baby top end product, often possibly used with way inferior sources to it's performance level. Hopefully, Marco will be able to ascertain if the Slic is masking ragged sources or not (I remember how monotonous the VDH 'First' cable made a good source, mainly by adding resistance I remember, so it is possible for a cable to do all sorts of subtle things as well as transmit the signal)
BTH K10A
08-06-2014, 12:56
If making your own then you don't need anything more than these. Just add whatever connectors you like. :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Tour-Grade-Classic-XKE-Starquad-Microphone-Cable-Choice-of-Colours-/181219017957?pt=UK_Musical_Cables_Leads_Connectors&var=&hash=item2a317ec4e5
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-XKE-Pro-Microphone-Cable-By-The-Metre-Choice-Of-Colours-/200615624560?pt=UK_Musical_Cables_Leads_Connectors&var=&hash=item2eb59f7f70
Absolutes again ;) The XKE Microphone cable is quite good IMHO, especially in the bass and midrange especially on vocals but its a little sat on in terms of soundstage height in my system, I think it may be possible to better on a budget.
Reviews of the Thule amp look very encouraging. It looks to be a 'proper' baby top end product, often possibly used with way inferior sources to it's performance level. Hopefully, Marco will be able to ascertain if the Slic is masking ragged sources or not (I remember how monotonous the VDH 'First' cable made a good source, mainly by adding resistance I remember, so it is possible for a cable to do all sorts of subtle things as well as transmit the signal)
It seems to be well engineered in some ways but it has a curious set of performance figures that may have been designed to give it a characteristic sound. IE: Bandwidth limited and no overall global feedback.
I'm really liking the Klotz MC5000.
It's certainly doing all the right things in my system. It's hardly expensive at less than €3 per metre.
Coupled with the MS Audio plugs it sounds pretty good. Certainly one to try if you are after a good budget cable.
I think the AC110 cable can make the Van Damme sound a bit 'messy,' but if it does, it's a TINY thing indeed :)
It seems to be well engineered in some ways but it has a curious set of performance figures that may have been designed to give it a characteristic sound. IE: Bandwidth limited and no overall global feedback.
Yeah, I can't help but feel concerned with the reports I've heard from Slic users about needing to turn their system up a few notches, in order to achieve the same listening levels as with other cables...
I understand the way it was explained as being a benefit, but it does seem, to me, to be an effect due to some form of tailoring of the signal, and if that's true, it's not something I'd be looking to have in my system.
Marco.
I think the AC110 cable can make the Van Damme sound a bit 'messy,'...
Spot on, Dave, As good as the VD UBs are, that's exactly what I heard!
Marco.
Yeah, I can't help but feel concerned with the reports I've heard from Slic users about needing to turn their system up a few notches, in order to achieve the same listening levels as with other cables...
I understand the way it was explained as being a benefit, but it does seem, to me, to be an effect due to some form of tailoring of the signal, and if that's true, it's not something I'd be looking to have in my system.
Marco.
Marco, Neal was talking about the Thule amplifier Frank has, not the SLIC.
Ah right, Soz! :)
It still doesn't change what I said, though. I'd lay any money on the design of Slic deliberately tailoring/filtering the sound in some way, so I suspect that what Anthony said earlier about it having a 'desinged-in sonic signature' is correct.
Marco.
BTH K10A
08-06-2014, 16:53
Spot on, Dave, As good as the VD UBs are, that's exactly what I heard!
Marco.
The Van Damme mic cable certainly doesn't sound "messy", at least not in any of my systems. I can't comment on the UB's as I've not heard them.
I use the twin core for my balanced connectors and against others I've tried including some very expensive ones there's little discernable difference and if anything the Van Damme was the best all round package.
Looking back at some of the colourful descriptions of the effects this cable or that cable has on SQ certain questions spring to mind. Taking the "studio" brands, if the Gotham and Van Damme truly exhibit some of the characteristics described in this thread then would not those characteristic manifest themselves onto any recordings made using those cables? And, given their widespread use in the music industry (and radio & TV) does it mean that we are inundated with recordings and broadcasts that are severly compromised? If so then no magic cable is going to retrieve what has already been lost.
Hi Andy,
I know what you mean, and largely agree, but bear in mind that I'm talking about subjectively subtle sonic differences, in the context of my system, when comparing Van Damme with Klotz. It ain't 'night & day', mate! Dave just happened to choose a form of terminology I could relate to, to describe the difference that I heard between them :)
Marco.
Ninanina
08-06-2014, 18:15
Well I'm totally amazed Marco :confused:
When I made ANY mention of the SLIC cable on THIS thread I got totally bl**dy slated for it and my posts moved and told not to do it again
Seems to be double standards as the SLIC has now been mentioned in more than 12 posts, over half from yourself, since yesterday at post #737
Totally double standards. :mental: not fair
Bev, the pertinent discussion here about Slic started when Frank described his experiences with the Klotz cable in question and compared it with his Slics, see here (post #746):
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32820-VFM-SPPV-studio-cables-test&p=558153#post558153
...and has followed on from that point. That's not Frank's fault, as it stands to reason if he's comparing other cables with his current references (Slic), then the latter is also going to be mentioned at some point during the discussion!
Marco.
Yeah, I can't help but feel concerned with the reports I've heard from Slic users about needing to turn their system up a few notches, in order to achieve the same listening levels as with other cables...
I understand the way it was explained as being a benefit, but it does seem, to me, to be an effect due to some form of tailoring of the signal, and if that's true, it's not something I'd be looking to have in my system.
Marco.
You are wrong on every level with that observation Marco.
I have said that with the SLICs in my system the volume control just begs to be turned up because it is so clean sounding without any distortion or blare. I have a digital volume control on my Thule amp calibrated from 0 to 79 and with all cables I have previously had in my system the blare begins to seriously intrude around 50 - 55 on the volume setting whereas the SLIC will happily go up to 65 and beyond that too. I asked some other SLIC owners to give a good fistful on the volume knob and report their findings, which mirrored my findings exactly. There is no need at all to turn the volume up a few notches to achieve the same sound levels as with other cables.
If you read again MartinT's report on the balanced version of the SLIC he used a sound level meter during his evaluation which puts a definitive figure on the additional sound levels he could listen at without distortion or blare. I quote:
"The volume seems quieter even when I’m pulling some serious decibels (I was hitting 95dB at my listening position during the Jeff Beck, for instance). There is a sense of the presentation sounding less busy, and appearing lower in volume, because the strands of the music are better separated; overall definition is up and glare is well down. I’m setting the gain 2-4dB higher than I’m used to."
Take it from me there is NO tailoring whatsoever of the SLIC's sound. You will not hear a more natural and uncoloured cable - ever.
In all honesty I think that you are totally stuck on the mental tramlines of how other cables you have heard in the past are colouring and prejudicing your judgement of what the SLIC's ACTUAL sonic capabilities are.
Ninanina
08-06-2014, 18:52
Bev, the pertinent discussion here about Slic started when Frank described his experiences with the Klotz cable in question and compared it with his Slics, see here (post #746):
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32820-VFM-SPPV-studio-cables-test&p=558153#post558153
...and has followed on from that point. That's not Frank's fault, as it stands to reason if he's comparing other cables with his current references (Slic), then the latter is also going to be mentioned at some point during the discussion!
Marco.
Yes but other posts mentioned the SLIC onwards from post #737 and my posts weren't so different and mine got moved, what's the difference? I just don't see it apart from everyone else can mention it apart from me for some reason
Please guys, I'm NOT running the Van Damme cables down at all. Both the mic and single core wires they sell are excellent and great value for money and ready made RCA ones can be obtained for around £20 and are so popular I think, that they set a well established and consistent reference. My headphones do have a mid-treble peak (around 5kHz) so any differences up there may well be magnified in my situation (my systems, low volume levels via speakers and hearing don't show up these small differences easily at all). I do have a Van Damme mic cable based set made up for the office system and was using it today in fact!
Like I said ages and ages ago and repeated recently, the AC110 when first made up and compared with an MG HD1000, sounds a bit too well 'damped' at first. I'm sure that after a good few hours of the same music signals being sent down both cables into what I believe to be the same amp loads, that the admittedly small differences between them seemed to get less and less until it wasn't worth bothering about, for me anyway :lol:
Yes but other posts mentioned the SLIC onwards from post #737 and my posts weren't so different and mine got moved, what's the difference? I just don't see it apart from everyone else can mention it apart from me for some reason
Your posts were moved because they were in reference to you reviewing/describing how the Slics sounded in your system, so therefore had nothing whatsoever to do with the studio cables being discussed here.
Whereas Frank's referring to Slic, where he compared it to the Klotz and Gotham cables he's tried (and my remarks following on from that) are relevant to the current discussion here. Simples!
Marco.
Ninanina
08-06-2014, 19:07
All feels the same to me ....
Like I said ages and ages ago and repeated recently, the AC110 when first made up and compared with an MG HD1000, sounds a bit too well 'damped' at first. I'm sure that after a good few hours of the same music signals being sent down both cables into what I believe to be the same amp loads, that the admittedly small differences between them seemed to get less and less until it wasn't worth bothering about, for me anyway :lol:
Lol... However, "well damped" is not something I'm hearing here with the AC110 - quite the opposite! ;)
Marco.
SLIC in a VFM/SPPV thread? Not in my house! :ner:
At the current rate I can cable up my entire system for £100. 1/5th of a SLIC won't get me very far.
SLIC may be very good, but it does not belong in this thread. It costs 25 times more than my current cable. Is it 25 times better? I very much doubt it. Laws of diminishing returns springs to mind.
There is no way I am going to stump up £500 to find out either.
I am glad you are happy with your purchases, but can you please go and be happy in the SLIC thread. ;)
:)
jandl100
08-06-2014, 20:36
Nonsense, Kevin, you forget the newly revised name of this forum - AOS - Art Of SLIC. :lol:
jandl100
08-06-2014, 20:42
Oooo - but this is relevant, if rather behind the course of events --- I've finally, finally got hold of the Van Damme Ultra Blacks. They have replaced some Hitachi LCOFC cables that I rate highly, in my 2nd system (see siggie below).
I'm very impressed! - much more clarity, rez and presence. That will do nicely. Thanks for the heads-up on these, Marco. :)
How about some Sommer cable?
http://info.sommercable.com/2__default/index.html
brian2957
08-06-2014, 21:59
http://www.studiospares.com/search?q=sommer
I'll probably be sticking with the Klotz AC110 terminated with MS Audio plugs for a while as they sound mighty good to my ears :D
As it's German made cable, it should be good quality copper.
Oooo - but this is relevant, if rather behind the course of events --- I've finally, finally got hold of the Van Damme Ultra Blacks. They have replaced some Hitachi LCOFC cables that I rate highly, in my 2nd system (see siggie below).
I'm very impressed! - much more clarity, rez and presence. That will do nicely. Thanks for the heads-up on these, Marco. :)
Nice one, Jerry. Yer welcome. Identifying potential 'giant killers', in terms of interconnects, is precisely what the excercise was all about! The AoS 'SPPV mantra' lives on.......! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Covenant
09-06-2014, 14:39
I sent off for the MS Audio plus on 23rd May. How long before I contact them?
brian2957
09-06-2014, 15:28
They should have been here by now Jerry . Usually takes 14 days max . Just checked the listing and it does state delivery estimate 7-15 days so I would leave it a day or two .
I've ordered several pairs now and never had a problem , they always arrive eventually .
I'm now using Klotz 110/MS Audio plugs, sold on the TQ Black as it didn't sound as good.
Specifically, theres more sparkle and life to the sound, yet It sounds not fatiguing at all?
Sounds more "right".
When making my mind up about them I spent time comparing with the TQ.
Fresh out the packet they lost bass weight and depth in comparison, but with some time on them tbe bass filled in. The drive undepinning the music is back, but with a more open and incisive mid and top end, yet non fatiguing and involving listen.
I like 'em. :)
That's pretty much what I'm hearing with them in my system, Gary. The Klotz/Ms jobbies are simply a stupidly cheap and unbelivable bargain, capable of competing with the very best cables out there!
:exactly:
Marco.
Need to change yer signature Marco...again! :)
Lol - I'm leaving it as it is until I settle on a final cable, as I'm going to be auditioning both the Klotz cables below, all fitted with MS Audio plugs, and comparing them directly with the AC-110s, before deciding which ones I consider produce the best results:
http://www.studiospares.com/cable-balanced-/klotz-mc5000-mic-+-line-cable/invt/544600
and
http://www.studiospares.com/cable-balanced-/quadfle-x-cable-mtr/invt/540541?VBMST=klotz
The winner between the AC-110, and the two above, will then be fitted with Furutech CF-126s, where I'll assess if the latter improve on the MS Audio plugs, before I'll finally have my chosen 'giant-killers'! ;)
Marco.
look forward to the results mate.
brian2957
10-06-2014, 14:40
Tell you what guys these cables have been a bit of a find . The MS Audio plugs seems to bring out the very best in them though .
Covenant
10-06-2014, 15:57
Turned up today Brian. Right, I have the Klotz cable and the MS Audio plugs, now where did I put my soldering iron?
brian2957
10-06-2014, 16:01
You're in for a treat mate :D
Think you'll like them Jerry, sound a bit special.
Covenant
10-06-2014, 18:00
I want to chat with you at some point about your Edingdales Gaz, but I don't want to go off on a tangent. I will PM you.
I have some Mogami Mic cable on the way now, will be an interesting comparison to the XKE Mic cable and the AC-110
brian2957
11-06-2014, 12:55
Should be interesting . Please keep us posted Neal.
I want to chat with you at some point about your Edingdales Gaz, but I don't want to go off on a tangent. I will PM you.
No problem Jerry, gimme a tinkle.
I think we may have a serious title challenger to the AC 110, this Mogami cable seems to be hitting the spot. Unfortunately my session today has been cut short so no conclusions yet.
brian2957
12-06-2014, 16:15
Got a link to the cable Neal.
Try some of this for VFM: http://www.van-damme.com/25.html in some ways it's not really worth going further, but we do don't we...
My plugs used by NVA turned up in the post today.
I have just knocked up a 0.5m interconnect with the AC110 and NVA plugs.
Just waiting for my MS Audio plugs to arrive to see if the three different types of plug make a difference to the sound.
Personally, I doubt it I will be able to tell a difference.
I have a couple of lengths of the shotgun audio screened cable and have found it a little too 'closed in' for me. Psychological or not, that's just how I perceive it. The AC110 has a similar balance but subtle acoustic and/or reverb 'seems' to come through rather easier/better (direction is irrelevant here I find). Would be great to see if any of you feel differently though :)
brian2957
12-06-2014, 17:28
I haven't tried the Mogami cable yet Dave . However I've used the Klotz AC110 many times and I've been very pleased with it . However , it really opens up when used with the MS Audio plugs and I'm not hearing things as several members here have experienced the same results with this combination .
Got a link to the cable Neal.
This is the one:
http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/microphone/quality_balanced/
brian2957
12-06-2014, 17:30
Thanks Neal . Got a link to where I can buy it mate .
brian2957
12-06-2014, 17:40
Thanks again Neal .
No prob. The 2549....
That's not a link - *this* is a link: http://www.hhb.co.uk/product_detail.php?id=1934
;)
Brian, I'm loving the MC5000... In my system, after a bit of use, it has a smidgen more resolution than the AC110, thus offering a touch more openness and clarity in its presentation of music. Voices, in particular, have a rather beguiling 'holographic' quality to them, which allows them to 'hang in the air' in a kind of spooky way that seems to escape the AC110.
It's still early days yet, as I need to swap back to the latter later, in order to get a proper handle on the differences between both - but I suspect that this 0.5m pair are keepers, and that I'll be wanting a matching 1m pair! :eyebrows:
Marco.
So far, I have found that the MC5000 has more resolution/detail too.
I think it's going to be my cable of choice. The AC110 isn't bad, but the MC5000 just gives a little more.
How did you wire it up Brian?
That's not a link - *this* is a link: http://www.hhb.co.uk/product_detail.php?id=1934
;)
Daftey! Post 813... :)
brian2957
12-06-2014, 18:46
That's not a link - *this* is a link: http://www.hhb.co.uk/product_detail.php?id=1934
;)
Brian, I'm loving the MC5000... In my system, after a bit of use, it has a smidgen more resolution than the AC110, thus offering a touch more openness and clarity in its presentation of music. Voices, in particular, have a rather beguiling 'holographic' quality to them, which allows them to 'hang in the air' in a kind of spooky way that seems to escape the AC110.
It's still early days yet, as I need to swap back to the latter later, in order to get a proper handle on the difference between both - but I suspect that this 0.5m pair are keepers, and that I'll be wanting a matching 1m pair! :eyebrows:
Marco.
OK , I thought I heard something with these cables , wasn't sure as I only listened to them briefly . Let me know when you make your decision .
I hope you did hear something, otherwise you need to look at your soldering. :eyebrows:
Daftey! Post 813... :)
Oops - ah didnae shpy that! :D
Marco.
brian2957
12-06-2014, 19:03
I hope you did hear something, otherwise you need to look at your soldering. :eyebrows:
Cheeky boy :)
OK , I thought I heard something with these cables , wasn't sure as I only listened to them briefly . Let me know when you make your decision .
Hi Brian,
Yeah there's defo something special about the sound of the MC5000, but you need to listen to the cables both ways round, as in that respect (for whatever reason), I found a marked difference! ;)
Marco.
Cheeky boy :)
He needs a spank (and I *know* that he likes it, full on his bare botty) :spank: :spank:
:kiss:
Marco.
brian2957
12-06-2014, 19:10
He needs a spank (and I *know* he likes it, full on his bare botty) :spank: :spank:
:kiss:
Marco.
With a cricket bat :lol:
And this is the thanks I get for suggesting that this might be a good cable?
:ner:
brian2957
12-06-2014, 19:12
Hi Brian,
Yeah there's defo something special about the sound of the MC5000, but you need to listen to the cables both ways round, as in that respect (for whatever reason), I found a marked difference! ;)
Marco.
Directional cables :eek: Are you trying to start another cable war :lol: OK which way round sounds best to you mate.
Hi Brian,
Yeah there's defo something special about the sound of the MC5000, but you need to listen to the cables both ways round, as in that respect (for whatever reason), I found a marked difference! ;)
Marco.
Which way was the text running down the jacket?
brian2957
12-06-2014, 19:15
And this is the thanks I get for suggesting that this might be a good cable?
:ner:
We're only trying to provide you with a suitable reward Kevin . You can of course have a spanking implement of your choice if you're not happy with our suggested ones . We use cabers up here :uhho:
Cabers? :eek:
With or without petroleum jelly?
A suitable reward. Solve my amplification quandary for me! ;)
I'm glad it's working for you guys, as my ears told me it was better than the AC110, and XKE I have.
brian2957
12-06-2014, 19:25
Yup thanks for the tip Kevin . This is what AOS is all about for me , members helping each other out :D
What's petrolium jelly BTW :eyebrows:
With a cricket bat :lol:
Nah, the back end of a Buckfast bottle! :yesbruv:
:D
Marco.
Directional cables :eek: Are you trying to start another cable war :lol: OK which way round sounds best to you mate.
Hehehehe... The opposite way that the writing runs ;)
Marco.
brian2957
12-06-2014, 19:40
Now that is interesting . Have you tried the AC110s like that ?
My plugs used by NVA turned up in the post today.
I have just knocked up a 0.5m interconnect with the AC110 and NVA plugs.
Just waiting for my MS Audio plugs to arrive to see if the three different types of plug make a difference to the sound.
Personally, I doubt it I will be able to tell a difference.
There is not a big enough difference between the NVA plugs and the Neutrik Rean for me to notice in my system.
The NVA plugs are less than £2 each in low quantity purchases. :eek:
Directional cables :eek: Are you trying to start another cable war :lol: OK which way round sounds best to you mate.
The MC5000 is a balanced Mic cable so if its been configured to have the screen connected only at one end then yes, it could be directional ;)
Edit: The AC-110 is coaxial so only has a central conductor and the screen.
brian2957
12-06-2014, 20:40
The screen wasn't connected at all Neal , on the advice of another member here , and it appears to work very well that way . When I get more of this cable and MS Audio plugs I may try connecting the screen at one end . If I do I will of course pass on my findings here.
Interesting, is shouldn't matter then, certainly IME anyhow... I've configured the Mogami with the screen connected at one end, will try it both ways tomorrow...
If you're not going to use the screen then you may as well just get some hook up cable from RS (theres load of different types) and twist them together yourself! or Plait them ;)
brian2957
12-06-2014, 20:43
OK should be interesting . Please keep us posted on the Mogami cables .
I don't think that there will be much difference.
The MC5000 has a double copper braided screen, but that's about it.
Now that is interesting . Have you tried the AC110s like that ?
Yes... ;)
Marco.
Managed to get more time this morning, for me the Mogami wins. This is not to say its 'better' than the AC-110 just that for me I prefer the Mogami sound and presentation.
The AC-110 offers an alternative presentation, in my system it pushes vocals and the midrange forward in comparison which I don't like. The Mogami manages to create a better sense of separation and depth and somehow conveys more vocal emotion in a similar way to the VD XKE Mic cable, the VD cable though has a strange trait of squashing the sound stage most noticeable on strong cymbals.
Back to the AC-110, I found the Mogami more natural to listen to maybe more neutral but I have no reference point of what that might be! It just sounds ‘right’ in my system. The detail retrieval was equal. I also tried the AC-110 both ways around and I couldn't detect any difference. I also went back to the Chord Siren which I’ve used for years, it was a bit of a shock, it was all top end tizz and it did something strange with vocals making them sound deeper…maybe correctly…who knows? Anyhow I'm quite happy to give this a rest now but I may just give my DIY plaited cable a shot over the weekend to round things off.
brian2957
13-06-2014, 11:34
Result Neal :D Well done mate . I've got to say that the AC110 sounds very different in my system . It seems to spread the soundstage out from the speakers and is certainly not in my face . Just goes to show that one should try cables in their own system before making a choice . I'm not quite finished yet as I'll probably have to try the MC5000 and maybe the Mogami . There's certainly a feeling that I may too be coming to the end of this journey . I've invested quite a lot of money and time in this but I feel it's been worth it . If I don't find something better I will be more than happy to have the AC110/MS Audio cables in my system as it's a superb combination.
What's the speaker cable BTW .
In isolation Brian the AC-110 is very good, its only when put against the Mogami did I note the slight forward presentation. 'Speaker cable is the excellent Townshend Isolda purchased second hand at a knock down price years ago...
Had a good result with braided Cat5 as speaker cable.
Using the Klotz 110, be interesting to compare the Mogami.
Brian? :)
brian2957
13-06-2014, 14:28
Probably try the MC5000 first buddy . We'll see.
Whilst the Mogami sounds interesting, and no doubt sounds great, I won't be going there, as one has to stop somewhere, lest one spends one's whole life testing cables! :eek: ;)
I've tried about seven different types of high-quality studio cables now, in order to get a good flavour of what the best ones offer, and suspect I've found my favourite (Klotz MC5000).
Therefore, when that's confirmed I'll be using it as my cable of choice and perhaps trying some Furutech plugs on it, although after a session yesterday at Anthony's place, comparing his RFC Venus (fitted with said Furutech plugs) with my Klotz AC110/MS Audio jobbies, I'm increasingly getting the feeling that the Furutech plugs may not offer a worthwhile sonic improvement over the (rather excellent and stupidly cheap) MS Audio items - and I don't do 'audio jewellery'....!
Marco.
Aye, the Klotz MC5000 looks good.
Marco, are you able to provide a good link to the MS plugs please? I'm going to do another DIY phono to jack interconnect and since I've grown to very much respect the AC110, I'd like to make a fresh set for the 'headphone' amp in the office system to compare with the Van Damme mic cable and Belden blue stuff I have (Can't remember the sodding number of the Belden).
Ask Brian, he's the guy that discovered 'em! :)
anthonyTD
13-06-2014, 17:42
Hi All,
I had an interesting, and insightful experience recently, concerning cables that I thought I would share with you!
Marco was down for a visit this week, and I did some work on his turntable etc. Anyway' he brought with him some of the Klotz AC110 cables’ with MS Audio Rhodium plated, Tellurium Copper plugs fitted’ that he has been experimenting with. After i had finished with his turntable, we decided to do some listening, and comparisons with the cables that were currently being used long term in my system, And' although i value Marco's opinion, and know from personal experience, and thus appreciate that he does know a good sound when he hears it, i have to say, i was a Little sceptical, and possibly' a little apprehensive, as the cables these would be replacing were considerably more expensive!
.
What first intrigued me to try these cables in my own system was the sonic qualities we experienced from his turntable combination in my system, which was using a pair of these cables between my Soul-mate preamplifier’s in built M/M phono-stage, and the Paul Hynes M/C Head amp Marco is currently using etc.
The vinyl albums we listened to varied from The Beatles, to Stevie Ray Vaughn etc, we played the same albums before' and after the Turntable modifications, and It was clear to me that these cables were easily capable of revealing the sonic differences achieved by the recent alterations etc.
So, once the Turntable testing was over, we decided to fit the Klotz AC110 cables in my system.
We did the comparison between my Soul-mate preamplifier, and one of the CD players i have been using for some time now, An old’ but highly modified California Audio Tempest 11 [special edition] Now, i have spent many hours with this CD player’ and cables in question, [which at this present time I am not prepared to mention as it serves no purpose to the point I am trying to make here] and therefore' I feel i have a very good handle on their sonic strengths, and weaknesses. The music we listened to varied between Gregory Porters recent album, and Michael Jacksons recent release “Escape” these are amongst a few albums that i have played a few times over the last few weeks and months that they have been in my collection, so it was a good test to evaluate what' if anything these new additions [cables] could bring to the table so to speak.
After first listening to the system with my current choice of cables fitted, [just so we had a reference to adhere to] we quickly swapped over to the Klotz AC110 cables, well, the first thing that was easily apparent was the timing which even compared with my own reference cables was impressive, secondly’, how clean these cables are, I deliberately tried tracks that I was sure the slight harshness, or brashness, was on the recording, but when played using these cables, the perceived harshness that I had taken for granted was now gone, and replaced with a clean and extended’ representation, so obvious’ that it made me swap out the cables a few times just so I could get my head around what I was really experiencing. One of the apparent failings of this cable I seem to remember someone mentioning here was a lack of bass weight, which in my system’ was not something that was obvious to either myself, or Marco, what it does have is a realistic level of bass, with accuracy, and not a hint of over-bloom, or sluggishness that some’ even high end cables portray. So’ as stated in the beginning of my post here, an interesting day was had!
Which brings me to my conclusion, no cable is perfect, they cannot add anything to the signal that is not already there, however, what they can do is mess with it, and change its character, some’ more severe, than others, what this cable and plug combination in my system seemed to achieve, IMHO is portray a somewhat more honest sonic presentation than most cables I have auditioned of late, and at a fraction of the cost!
You really need to try the MC5000
brian2957
13-06-2014, 17:50
Nice write up Anthony . These cables are rather good aren't they . I've got to say that following a very brief listening session with the MC5000 I still preferred the Klotz AC110 in my system . Further investigation needed here methinks.
Ask Brian, he's the guy that discovered 'em! :)
Indeed - Brian is due all the credit here. However, Dave, for reference, here they are: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MS-Audio-Star-Line-Rhodium-Plated-Tellurium-Copper-RCA-Plugs-2-Pair-/251550161495?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3a918eda57
Highly recommended... Their combination with either Klotz AC110 or MC5000 is sublime!
Marco.
anthonyTD
13-06-2014, 18:06
They certainly are Brian :)
.These cables are rather good aren't they . .
anthonyTD
13-06-2014, 18:08
On my "to do list" Kevin! :)
You really need to try the MC5000
Nice write up Anthony . These cables are rather good aren't they . I've got to say that following a very brief listening session with the MC5000 I still preferred the Klotz AC110 in my system . Further investigation needed here methinks.
Wouldn't mind a wee listen Brian in my system next time your over?
Have a new shiney spinney blingy musicy thing to show you. :)
brian2957
13-06-2014, 18:16
Yup we'll have to get something sorted mate .
Nice write up Anthony...
Indeed. We were both rather surprised and gob-smacked at what we heard!
Marco.
Mr Kipling
13-06-2014, 20:21
Marco, are you able to provide a good link to the MS plugs please? I'm going to do another DIY phono to jack interconnect and since I've grown to very much respect the AC110, I'd like to make a fresh set for the 'headphone' amp in the office system to compare with the Van Damme mic cable and Belden blue stuff I have (Can't remember the sodding number of the Belden).12670
Is this what you have, Dave? This is Belkin Synapse Silver F8C202 06 SLV. I've just got some. 6' for £5.
I also won a sheadload of this: Belkin PureAV Silver Component Video Cables. Top-notch silver-plated PCOCC copper. The postage of £7 was nearly as much as the cable itself £7.50. 12 x 4.9 metres x 3. Suppose to retail at more than £50 each.
12671
Hi-Fi Answers used to recommend Mogami more than 30 years ago.
Its interesting how there is a consensus forming on these low cost cables. I've just spent an excellent evening listening to my system hearing things I've not heard before and rediscovering some tracks I've not heard in a while, OK, a certain amount of wine (a fair bit it has to be said!) has been involved which no doubt will have affected my obvious enthusiasm for the Mogami cable but it really is the business it simply hits the spot. It really highlights how shockingly over priced and hyped mainstream Hi-Fi cables are IMHO. For me this really has moved the game on ;) and taken a club hammer to that glass ceiling LOL! :D Oh and a rung on a ladder may be involved as well...
brian2957
14-06-2014, 08:14
I agree with all you've said here Neal . These cables have always been on the market . The difference for me was the discovery of a fantastic budget plug which compliments them perfectly . I'm sure there are plenty of other superb low cost cables out there , however it's nice to find a cable which you can settle on and which meets all your expectations and which doesn't cost the earth .
The only problem is that I don't drink so what am I going to spend that extra money on :eyebrows:
More music?
I have just received another two sets of MS Audio plugs.
I'll pop a set on AC110 and see what that does in the mini "plug test".
I am going to order some more MC5000 today, so that I can create my loom. ;)
kininigin
14-06-2014, 08:33
The only problem is that I don't drink so what am I going to spend that extra money on :eyebrows:
Weed and whores,in that order? Just a suggestion!
brian2957
14-06-2014, 08:38
More music?
I have just received another two sets of MS Audio plugs.
I'll pop a set on AC110 and see what that does in the mini "plug test".
I am going to order some more MC5000 today, so that I can create my loom. ;)
Hah! Not finished then mate :lol: This budget cable mullarky is addictive :D
brian2957
14-06-2014, 08:42
Nah stopped smoking a while back too Darren ( nicotine may I add ) :lol: I may consider the other however John Wayne Bobbitt keeps coming into my head :lol:
kininigin
14-06-2014, 08:49
Nah stopped smoking a while back too Darren ( nicotine may I add ) :lol: I may consider the other however John Wayne Bobbitt keeps coming into my head :lol:
Fair enough Brian.In that case,how are your baking skills? ;) Who the hell is John Wayne Bobbitt? :lol:
Stratmangler
14-06-2014, 09:01
Fair enough Brian.In that case,how are your baking skills? ;) Who the hell is John Wayne Bobbitt? :lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt
brian2957
14-06-2014, 09:04
I'm actually pretty good at the old baking mate . Me old granny taught me how to make scones , cakes and tattie scones . The good thing is I get to eat my mistakes :D Haven't done it for a while though . too busy listening to ma music.
Hah! Not finished then mate :lol: This budget cable mullarky is addictive :D
Now that I have found the cable, I need to wire up my system. Just ordered the last two sets of plugs I need as well.
The next project is a DIY headphone cable.
brian2957
14-06-2014, 09:06
Fair enough Brian.In that case,how are your baking skills? ;) Who the hell is John Wayne Bobbitt? :lol:
Google him and you'll understand :eek:
kininigin
14-06-2014, 09:19
Just seen who he is! I'll keep my suggestions to myself from now on....you can tell i'm single :lol:
kininigin
14-06-2014, 09:22
I'm actually pretty good at the old baking mate . Me old granny taught me how to make scones , cakes and tattie scones . The good thing is I get to eat my mistakes :D Haven't done it for a while though . too busy listening to ma music.
There you go,your non smoking issue resolved :eyebrows:
brian2957
14-06-2014, 09:25
Nah I'll just get fat again matey . I'll stick to the music , something I really enjoy :D
Nah stopped smoking a while back too Darren ( nicotine may I add ) :lol: I may consider the other however John Wayne Bobbitt keeps coming into my head :lol:
Poor John, lost the head.
kininigin
14-06-2014, 09:49
Ahh yeah,never considered the side effects!
Anyway back to cables :lol: Been reading this thread with interest! I don't usually like faffing around with cables but since my system has changed this year and will change again next week with the new server,i may just get involved with some of the cables mentioned in this thread and see what all the fuss is about! I was originally going to get my system back to it's original state cable wise (all mark grants) but it seems there are gains to be had for the same sort of money!
brian2957
14-06-2014, 09:59
It's worth the effort Darren . If you need any help feel free to drop me a PM .
kininigin
14-06-2014, 10:02
Will do Brian,just want to get some other things sorted first,new valves (hint hint Marco) battery pack for Bushmaster and then can start thinking about cables!
bronzeage
16-06-2014, 10:46
Hi Chaps
I am very interested in trying out the Klotz/MS-Audio combination, but I can't solder to save my life (nor do I have a soldering iron!).
Would anybody be interested in making one up for me? Naturally, I will pay for all costs and labour, if reasonable :cheers:
Cheers
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 11:47
Yes, no problem, if you buy the bits and pay postage both ways, I'll make it up for you for nowt.
bronzeage
16-06-2014, 12:08
Hi Ali
That is very kind of you. I will start to assemble the bits and pieces and then PM you when it has all arrived.
Guessing that will take a few weeks at least for the plugs.
This is what makes this forum so great - community spirit.
Cheers :clap:
icehockeyboy
16-06-2014, 12:13
Ali, without wanting to start a landslide of people asking you....erm......if I ever get around to buying the bits, would you make some up for me too? :)
Same terms as you said before?
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 12:36
Aye sure.
Nice one, Ali. That is what AoS is all about!! :thumbsup:
Marco.
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 12:48
Chaps, the plug entry hole is a bit larger in diameter than the cable, so I would suggest buying some braided sleeving like this to make a tidy and secure job of it-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Expandable-Braided-Polyester-Sleeving-15mm-Nylon-Tubing-/260547768809?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&hash=item3ca9db71e9
and some heatshrink to finish it off-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Adhesive-Glue-Lined-Weatherproof-Heatshrink-Tubing-Heat-Shrink-Sleeving-/181068478516?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&var=&hash=item2a2885b834
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 12:49
Nice one, Ali. That is what AoS is all about!! :thumbsup:
Marco.
It's no bother, as long as I don't get a thousand requests!
brian2957
16-06-2014, 12:51
Ali , I use 9.5mm heatshrink and double it up on the cable . The securing screw catches it no bother then,
It's no bother, as long as I don't get a thousand requests!
Then just charge the buggers for your time, and you'll have a nice wee business!! :D
Marco.
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 13:12
Ali , I use 9.5mm heatshrink and double it up on the cable . The securing screw catches it no bother then,
Aye, cheers, thought about that, make it a bit stiff though?
brian2957
16-06-2014, 13:14
Mines are fine mate . You only need to use short lengths .
anthonyTD
16-06-2014, 13:46
Thats very kind of you Ali, and one of the main reasons AOS is a success!:)
Yes, no problem, if you buy the bits and pay postage both ways, I'll make it up for you for nowt.
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 15:06
Mines are fine mate . You only need to use short lengths .
Ah, thought you meant cover the whole length. Aye, that'll work fine, and it's what I did with mine. Won't look as good as using braiding though.
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 15:08
Thats very kind of you Ali, and one of the main reasons AOS is a success!:)
It's no bother, I enjoy that kind of thing anyway, been rebuilding a pair of WAD 300b PSE monoblocks recently with all new components. Just need a new pair of mains trannies for them now...
brian2957
16-06-2014, 15:14
Ah, thought you meant cover the whole length. Aye, that'll work fine, and it's what I did with mine. Won't look as good as using braiding though.
Yup agreed regarding the braiding mate . Have you made yours up already Ali . If you have what's your opinion mate.
anthonyTD
16-06-2014, 16:50
PM Sent! :)
It's no bother, I enjoy that kind of thing anyway, been rebuilding a pair of WAD 300b PSE monoblocks recently with all new components. Just need a new pair of mains trannies for them now...
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 17:10
Cheers Anthony. :-)
Ali Tait
16-06-2014, 17:12
Yup agreed regarding the braiding mate . Have you made yours up already Ali . If you have what's your opinion mate.
Positive so far, though I need to make more sets up, I use more sets because of the active set up. Be able to give a better opinion once I'm wired right through.
The missus asked last night what I'd done, as it's "sounding sharper and clearer", so it's definitely changed the sound.
brian2957
16-06-2014, 17:24
Nice one :)
Positive so far, though I need to make more sets up, I use more sets because of the active set up. Be able to give a better opinion once I'm wired right through.
The missus asked last night what I'd done, as it's "sounding sharper and clearer", so it's definitely changed the sound.
Is it the Klotz AC110/MS Audio plugs you've used, Ali? :)
Marco.
Ali Tait
18-06-2014, 06:45
Aye dat's dem.
BilliumB
18-06-2014, 13:05
Hi
I've just come across this thread and found it fascinating - I'm going to order the connectors this evening and make a start!
Has there been a similar, positive and informative discussion about making up really good low cost speaker cables that you can point me to? I need a 6m pair and am thinking about moving on from my old Linn K20 set. I fancy trying TQ Black or Ultra Black, or NVA LS6 or LS7 but don't have the cash at the moment.
Current system consists of SB Touch, Bushmaster II (soon to be both powered by Optima AGM battery, Touch via a 5v regulator box), Conrad Johnson CA200 Control Amplifier (integrated passive pre and power amp), Amphion Xenon II speakers.
Thank. Bill
brian2957
18-06-2014, 13:15
Hi Bill , firstly be prepared for a little wait as the connectors usually take around 2 weeks to arrive , but well worth waiting for IMO ( If you need a few sets I would order them all together ). I'm not sure if there are many members on here making their own speaker cables . I did have a set of TQ Black speaker cables which were bettered by Cable Talk 3 in my system and that is what I still use today.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Talk-Cable-3-Speaker-Cable-WHAT-HI-FI-5-Stars-/231243575467?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item35d730f0ab
BilliumB
18-06-2014, 13:20
Thanks Brian - Talk 3 has been recommended to me before, so that's interesting.
Do you recommend any special terminations?
brian2957
18-06-2014, 13:39
Their own plugs , which are shown in the picture I linked to , are excellent . As are the Nakamichi plugs .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TALK-CABLES-Z-Banana-Plugs-pair-/251138446661?pt=US_Audio_Cable_Plugs_Jacks&hash=item3a79049545
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-x-Quality-Nakamichi-Speaker-banana-plug-24k-Gold-plated-connector-UK-/121351384293?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item1c411b2ce5
Anybody tried the Quadflex yet?
I'll be upset if it is better than the MC5000, as that is what I have ordered.
I'll be stripping the AC110 out of the plugs this weekend, ready to build the IC's up when the cable arrives.
Mr Kipling
18-06-2014, 21:09
Tryin' silver-plated cat-gut.
Hoping the Ginger Toms will do it for me.
Anybody tried the Quadflex yet?
Brian's done some for me, which I should receive tomorrow. I'll let you know what I think, as they'll be going directly up against the MC5000! :)
Marco.
Tryin' silver-plated cat-gut.
Hoping the Ginger Toms will do it for me.
Only if they where castrated before hand.
I've said before how much I like the AC110, so shall try the MC5000's as soon as I can. In the meantime, I still think it a shame that the NVA SC seems to have been left out, as it's really very good indeed and, like the AC110, shows a sweet but very slight 'wispy' treble quality to many of the van Damme cables I have on hand. Not a huge difference though, but repeatable once you've 'got it.' The SC and AC110 just sound 'tidier' to me :) Oh yeah, and after the last few days listening for these things as against listening to the MUSIC - cough - anyone who tells me that cable direction is unimportant needs their bloomin' bumps felt IMO!!!!! :lol:
The Black Adder
19-06-2014, 18:26
Ah, but the NVA SC isn't a studio cable though.
I have never tried the Sound Cord, but I have tried the Super Sound Cord. It's pretty good, but I prefer the presentation of the MC5000 based cable over most others I have used recently.
I have just made another two cables, a stereo 30cm pair to link the amps together, and a 60cm pair for the PD-S703 to amp. Two left to go, and I am fully wired up. Just waiting for the plugs.
That Quadflex had better not be better, but to be quite honest I don't care if it is. I am happy with my choice of the MC5000. You have to stop some time, and just sit back and listen to the music.
As for directionality of the cable, I put that in the same category as mega expensive plugs and mains leads. I have never tried either, but I have other "priorities" in my system to spend my cash on. Priority no.1 is more music.
Ah, but the NVA SC isn't a studio cable though.
Oh I'm terribly sorry ;)
Brian's done some for me, which I should receive tomorrow. I'll let you know what I think, as they'll be going directly up against the MC5000! :)
Marco.
Did you receive the cables yet? Just wondering if a "review" is imminent?
Come on Marco.... :ner:
What is the Quadflex like? Sticking with the MC5000?
Most likely, yes. Brian's done a great job with the cables. I've been rather busy with one thing and another, but had time today to do some proper comparisons, and I'm 95% sure I'll be sticking with the MC5000s.
The Quadflex sounds good, but lacks the 'high-res', super-clean, mellifluously musical, 'liquid' presentation of the MC5000s. All I need to do now is listen to loads of different music over the weekend, with the MC5000s, and then on Monday swap back to the AC110s, using the same test music...
If when that happens I don't go 'wow, I can hear what I've been missing', then the MC5000s will be my cables of choice. After that, I just need to decide if I can be arsed/or justify spending £100s on some Furutech CF-126s, in order to achieve a possible (no doubt subtle, if at all upgrade) over the MS Audio plugs... :hmm:
Marco.
Ah, but the NVA SC isn't a studio cable though.
Indeed, and it's also fitted with cheapo brass-conductor plugs, which from experience I *know* degrade the performance of ANY cables they're fitted to - not just Soundcords (no matter how sonically effective the attached wire may be)! ;)
Marco.
If when that happens I don't go 'wow, I can hear what I've been missing', then the MC5000s will be my cables of choice. After that, I just need to decide if I can be arsed/or justify spending £100s on some Furutech CF-126s, in order to achieve a possible (no doubt subtle, if at all upgrade) over the MS Audio plugs... :hmm:
Marco.
Expensive plugs go against the whole ethos of a "studio cable" IMHO.
brian2957
21-06-2014, 17:05
Well I've been using the MC5000s for a few days now . When I plug the MC5000s into my system I miss the musicality of the Klotz AC110s . When I plug the AC110s into my system I miss the accuracy of the MC5000s . At present I'm using the MC5000s from my Rega DAC to my BTE passive preamp and the AC110s between the preamp and the Bantam Gold power amp . Result :D I'm now getting the best of both cables in my system . Sorry for confusing matters chaps . Worth trying though :eyebrows:
Expensive plugs go against the whole ethos of a "studio cable" IMHO.
Lol, undoubtedly... However, my goal was to identify and build some 'giant-killing' interconnect cables (ones that could compete, sonically, with anything else out there, regardless of price), and in the process achieve the highest SPPV, not conform to some form of 'ethos' ;)
The ONLY reason that studio varieties were chosen was because the best ones are an excellent source of top-notch cable, on the cheap, due to economies of scale.
If it takes spending some more dosh on what could be the best plugs available, in order for me to achieve that goal, then so be it. However, right now if I'm going to go there and experiment further, I have to get past the 'can I be arsed?' factor, because the MC5000s, fitted with MS Audio plugs, sound utterly fantastic....!
Marco.
I agree about the result. My system does not suggest that the plugs make a big difference though.
It's pretty modest though.
No worries, Kevin. That could be the difference, though, as my system is uber-revealing and very clearly and repeatedly shows up sonic differences in plugs (amongst other things).
Remember also that all my kit is fitted with similarly 'posh' sockets, so that may be helping those differences be more easily audible! ;)
Marco.
Well I've been using the MC5000s for a few days now . When I plug the MC5000s into my system I miss the musicality of the Klotz AC110s . When I plug the AC110s into my system I miss the accuracy of the MC5000s . At present I'm using the MC5000s from my Rega DAC to my BTE passive preamp and the AC110s between the preamp and the Bantam Gold power amp . Result :D I'm now getting the best of both cables in my system . Sorry for confusing matters chaps . Worth trying though :eyebrows:
Lol - result! Whatever works, works, dude :)
I know *exactly* what you mean about the musicality of the AC110s, but in my system (so far) the MC5000s appear to do all that and more. There doesn't appear to be any downsides with them.
For me, with cables the same as anything else in hi-fi, it's about making recorded music sound as close as possible to the real thing, so whatever to my ears best achieves that, and contains the least audible 'sonic signature' (tailoring effect), is ultimately what will end up forming part of my system.
Marco.
kininigin
22-06-2014, 15:18
Would it be possible to make up any of these cables as tone-arm phono leads with a din connector out of interest?
potatoha
27-06-2014, 23:52
How are you guys terminating your MC5000s? Do you:
a. sum two centre conductors for signal and shield for return,
b. two centre conductors for signal/return and shield floating,
c. two centre conductors for signal/return but connect shield to return at both ends,
d. two centre conductors for signal/return but connect shield to return at source end only,
e. two centre conductors for signal/return but connect shield to return at amp end only?
I have tried B, and it works well enough.
I was going to play around and see if the others made much of a difference, but as B works so well, I stopped there.
potatoha
28-06-2014, 10:27
So your MC5000s are pretty much unshielded? Why not make use of their double shield, intended for EMI/RFI rejection?
Because I don't have a nasty EMI/RFI environment.
To make full use of it, I'd need to go balanced.
What is this, cable attack day? ;)
potatoha
28-06-2014, 10:43
Because I don't have a nasty EMI/RFI environment.
To make full use of it, I'd need to go balanced.
What is this, cable attack day? ;)
It was never meant be an attack. :) I'd just like to how people are terminating their MC5000s to get the best sound out of them. I wonder how others are doing.
What with this and speaker cable, I had my doubts. :eyebrows:
My thoughts are that the screen (if left unconnected) acts as a faraday cage. If you connect the screen at one or both ends, you are potentially introducing "noise" into the signal.
I suggest you try connecting them up in the ways you have mentioned, and report back your findings.
brian2957
28-06-2014, 11:04
B and D but couldn't hear any difference so stuck with B which sounds excellent.
potatoha
28-06-2014, 11:08
I usually terminate two conductor cables like MC5000s in pseudo-balanced D, return and shield connected at source end only and coaxial cables like AC110 in typical unbalanced C, return and shield connected at both ends to get the best sound and lowest noise in my system. I would have thought a faraday cage should be grounded to be fully effective?
brian2957
29-06-2014, 08:35
I've listened to the Klotz AC110 and the MC5000 extensively now in my system and I've decided to settle on the AC110 . The AC110 may not be as accurate as the MC5000 but it has a 'character' which I like . It seems to allow the music to flow and has an almost ' liquid ' quality which draws me in.
I use an exclusively digital replay system and the only theory which I can come up with is that the AC110 is adding a little of the ' character ' which can be missing from digital files . The MC5000 is possibly more suited to an analogue system , which already has this ' character ' built in , and more accurately conveys it.
Anyway that's just my theory :sofa:
So it's the AC110 for me , and now I'm going to listen to some more music .:)
bronzeage
02-07-2014, 09:36
So, I finally got to try my MC5000/MS Audio combination. A chap at work ended up making them for me, but big thanks to Ali for helping out.
The results were a very, very pleasant surprise. The sound is super clean and clear, very relaxing to listen to, but not by virtue of 'deadening' the sound.
Unlike my other non-Venus cables, this one does not sacrifice detail or musicality in return.
It works very nicely with the Proac D18s, the lower registers are noticeably easier to follow, and the top end is sweeter and does not draw attention to itself.
I would say the Venus has a wider stereo image, and has more of an impression of the instruments being in the room, whereas the MC5000 job gives more of an impression of you being at the venu. I can really get a flavour of the venu accoustics, such is the cyrstaline cleanliness of this cable.
Due to the room accoustics (prone to muddying the bass), the MC5000 is easier to live with, and I find myself no longer thinking about components, but thinking about the music. The Venus is definately stronger in the bass, but possibly too much so for the room.
I think if I ever moved my speakers into the larger room, the Venus would be preferable again, but for now, I'm sticking with the home brew. I'll switch back after after a few weeks to see if I am just liking something different, as opposed to really better.
As ever, these results apply to my system, and the particular room they are in.
Quite a result for £25, including postage.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Marcus. Most interesting :)
I too love the sound of the MC5000, in conjunction with the MS Audio plugs (the sonic performance on offer is simply stunning), and indeed it has now become my cable of choice.
It's rather perverse using £25 interconnects on the end of a £30k system, but these cables sound better than anything else I've used at nearly 40 times the price!! Simples. SPPV rules :cool:
Marco.
The Black Adder
02-07-2014, 17:12
Not tried the 5000's yet... might give em a shot.
Hi Joe,
The 5000s have a bit more 'rez' than the AC-110s, as well as being effortlessly musical sounding. Marcus gets it spot on here with his description:
I can really get a flavour of the venu accoustics, such is the cyrstaline cleanliness of this cable.
"Cyrstaline cleanliness" is what the MC5000 delivers in spades, although I'd be more inclined to spell the term correctly! ;)
Marco.
Spell it how you like. It sounds bloody good to my ears.
bronzeage
03-07-2014, 08:52
Obviously I was not referring to crystals, but the famed cyrstals rocks renowned for their see-through properties in the hills of Scandenavia.:D
I tried switching to the smaller Proac Anniversary speakers last night.
Now this was a different story, the Venus came out well on top, the extra bass and width (which comes naturally with the big speakers) was needed to really bring those speakers to life. So the results are as I suspected, room and equipment dependent.
The fellow who sells the MS Audio plugs also sells complete cables, but I've had enough experimentation for now, and the Mrs would probably shoot me if she sees another cable.
bronzeage
04-07-2014, 09:02
Well, it was all too good to be true.
Last night, with the house to myself for a few good hours, I decided to put the MC5000 through its paces.
Now, this is where the real differences started to come out.
Basically, it was only good up to a certain (quite low) volume level, which I had been testing out at before.
Once getting to the type of level of, say, having an acutal guitarist in your room, the Venus simply blew it away. The width of sound it almost double (I'm not kidding) and everything is more textured, real and instruments have a place in each part of the room.
Confused, I turned the volume down again. There seems to be an over-emphasis on the high/low frequencies at low levels, that is ironed out by the MC5000 - it's acting like a high/low frequency filter, so the overall sound is easier to follow at those low levels.
When some people came around later in the evening, I did the same experiment without telling them what I was doing. Everybody, without fail, could tell the sound was way, way, way better with the Venus once the volume went up.
So, it's been fun, and I at least have an alternative to switch to for those late night sessions when the volume is way down low, but the Venus is otherwise staying.
Obviously, others are more than happy, so it's a cheap enough option to try to see how you get on.
bronzeage
04-07-2014, 09:12
Well, it was all too good to be true.
Last night, with the house to myself for a few good hours, I decided to put the MC5000 through its paces.
Now, this is where the real differences started to come out.
Basically, it was only good up to a certain (quite low) volume level, which I had been testing out at before.
Once getting to the type of level of, say, having an actual guitarist in your room, the Venus simply blew it away. The width of sound is almost double (I'm not kidding) and everything is more textured, real and instruments have a place in each part of the room.
Confused, I turned the volume down again. There seems to be an over-emphasis on the high/low frequencies at low levels, that is ironed out by the MC5000 - it's acting like a high/low frequency filter, so the overall sound is easier to follow at those low levels.
When some people came around later in the evening, I did the same experiment without telling them what I was doing. Everybody, without fail, could tell the sound was way, way, way better with the Venus once the volume went up.
So, it's been fun, and I at least have an alternative to switch to for those late night sessions when the volume is way down low, but the Venus is otherwise staying.
Obviously, others are more than happy, so it's a cheap enough option to try to see how you get on.
Hi Marcus,
Lol - interesting! :eyebrows:
There seems to be an over-emphasis on the high/low frequencies at low levels, that is ironed out by the MC5000 - it's acting like a high/low frequency filter, so the overall sound is easier to follow at those low levels.
Well, I guess that shows once again how system dependent these things are, as the MC5000 certainly isn't having that effect in my system - quite the opposite in fact! It's as revealing, detailed and sonically neutral a cable as I've heard at any price.
Also, when I was down recently at Anthony TD's place, we compared his Venus cables against some Klotz AC-110/MS Audio plug interconnects, playing his system at various volumes and with all different types of music, and the Venus most certainly didn't come out on top...
In any case, it's all about adding our respective experiences to the collective pool of information, in order to help let other folks make up their minds on the efficacy of the Klotz or any other cables recommended here :)
Marco.
bronzeage
04-07-2014, 10:02
Yep, some things gel wonderfully, and others don't. I have found the Rega gear to be very sensitive to changes in every kind of cabling, much more so than the Rotel/Marantz I used to have. I thought higher end was meant to be less sensitive, but there you go.
It's on a different planet to the old sutff when it all clicks together though, so for me, it's worth the extra, but given the price of living these days, it's great that there are at least very viable options for everybody.
For example, if the only cable I ever had was the MC5000, I would probably be perfectly happy.
Absolutely - experimentation is the name of the game, along with not succumbing to the misconception that 'newest or most expensive is automatically best' (in cables or equipment)!
:exactly:
Marco.
potatoha
04-07-2014, 10:15
I have found the Rega gear to be very sensitive to changes in every kind of cabling, much more so than the Rotel/Marantz I used to have. I thought higher end was meant to be less sensitive, but there you go.
Have you tried the AC110s in your system? Rega's own interconnects are the same as these, so you might wanna try them out?
How's the high frequency / top end and dynamics like with Venus in your system?
bronzeage
04-07-2014, 10:35
I've kind of had enough playing around for now, so I've not tried the AC-110. It does not sound like there is a world of difference.
The treble on the Venus is what I would call 'real'. It's not harsh or bright, but because the cable is so super-detailed, there are all sorts of sounds that you otherwise might not normally hear or pay attention to. That can be distracting at lower levels, when there isn't the bass to even things out, but once you get to a nice comfortable point (I am not talking party loud, the sort of level of having an accoustic guitar in your room), it is really quite special.
Dynamics are very strong - drums really sound like drums, you can hear the brushing of strings when a guitar is strummed. Again, that can be a double-edged sword, there are some days when I actually want softer dynamics, maybe just because of the mood I am in. But if you want 'real', it's all there.
I find turning on the subwoofer at such lower levels helps to balance out the sound, at bit like the old fashioned loudness button. Maybe it did have its uses after all ...:scratch:
Of course now, I also have the option to switch to the MC5000!
potatoha
04-07-2014, 10:52
Thanks for you input Marcus. Just wondering how you terminated your MC5000s with respect to the shield?
bronzeage
04-07-2014, 10:59
I didn't make the cable, but the shield was connected at one end, and that is the end I connect to the CD player.
I've kind of had enough playing around for now, so I've not tried the AC-110. It does not sound like there is a world of difference.
There isn't. The difference is most definitely of the subtle variety. However, to my ears, the AC110 is a little bit more recessed in the midrange, bass is marginally more 'phat', and the top-end lacking in a little openness and sparkle, in comparison with the MC5000, which for me is just that bit more 'honest' (i.e. it possesses less of an obvious 'sonic signature'), which is exactly what I want from any cable.
The Venus cables, when I heard them in Anthony TD's (multi-thousand pound system), containing his Soul monoblocks and Tannoy Kensington SEs, in comparison wth the AC-110s (never mind the MC5000s), sounded a bit harsh and 'gritty' - *but* - as we both know that effect almost certainly seems to be system dependent, as it doesn't sound like the result you're getting in your system with either of those cables (MC5000 or Venus).
Certainly in my system, there is no desire for me now to look beyond the Klotz MC5000 (with MC Audio plugs), other than perhaps investigating what the cables would sound like fitted with Furutech CF-126(R) plugs, as I use similar Furutech connectors elsewhere in my system with great success.
Marco.
bronzeage
04-07-2014, 15:19
I honestly could not say my system sounds harsh and gritty, and I don't see that as a quality of the Venus cable myself. It is very transparent, uncovering considerably more detail than any other cable I have tried.
However, if it sounds worse in Anthony's system, it's not right cable for him. No shame in that.
Ah, the mysteries of sound. It's what drives us all to distraction I guess. But it's fun experimenting.
:whippin:
OK, maybe not those kind of experiments.
Lol - nowt wrong with a bit of bondage! :eyebrows:
However, if it sounds worse in Anthony's system, it's not right cable for him. No shame in that.
It wasn't that it sounded bad - far from it; the Venus sounded excellent........ That was until the Klotz cables went in, which due to the sheer 'crystalline cleanliness' of their sonic presentation (if I may borrow your terminology) made the Venus sound 'harsh and gritty' in comparison.
It's important I make that distinction :)
Marco.
bronzeage
04-07-2014, 16:15
I'm sure you meant 'cyrstaline' as I originality quoted. Ah, those Scandinavian rocks. :lol:
Either way, I'm glad you found something that works for you. I would have been more than happy to have got the same results, but alas, it was not to be.
I'm sure you meant 'cyrstaline' as I originality quoted. Ah, those Scandinavian rocks. :lol:
:lolsign:
Marco.
I hate verbal descriptions of a 'sound.' Crystalline is not an artefact I hear in the Klotz as it's most definitely NOT a 'HiFi' cable - in my opinion :scratch:
Wakefield Turntables
04-07-2014, 21:25
I hate verbal descriptions of a 'sound.' Crystalline is not an artefact I hear in the Klotz as it's most definitely NOT a 'HiFi' cable - in my opinion :scratch:
Care to expand why not?
My old fashioned definition of 'HiFi' in this case is an over-hyped presentation, often in the treble, that gives, to the uninitiated, a sense of 'detail' that really isn't there (a long-time way of fooling the ears I found).
What I mean is, derogatory 'HiFi' isn't the same as truthful 'High Fidelity,' which is another bloody verbal term with an infinite way of defining it IMO.
Hope the above makes some sort of sense.
jandl100
05-07-2014, 05:25
It wasn't that it sounded bad - far from it; the Venus sounded excellent........ That was until the Klotz cables went in, which due to the sheer 'crystalline cleanliness' of their sonic presentation (if I may borrow your terminology) made the Venus sound 'harsh and gritty' in comparison.
It's important I make that distinction :)
Marco.
the RFC Venus "harsh and gritty"?
Good lord - I understand that's a comparison with another cable, and a comparison that I haven't heard, but that's pretty much the exact opposite of comparisons I've done with the RFC Venus. My preference is for the RFC Mercury Mk2 as I found the Venus just a tad too smooth and polite!
---- an old hifi dealer mate of mine, as crazed an audiophile as you are ever likely to meet :eyebrows:, reckoned that cable sound is very system dependent.
Maybe he's right and what we are hearing is as much the synergies involved as a specific sound attributable solely to the cables?
I too was surprised at the comment about the Venus. I have not heard one, but I also like the Mercury mk.2.
If I could afford it right now, I would be ordering enough Mercury to wire up my system. The MC5000 is good, but I think the Mercury still has a slight edge over it.
icehockeyboy
05-07-2014, 08:08
the RFC Venus "harsh and gritty"?
Good lord - I understand that's a comparison with another cable, and a comparison that I haven't heard, but that's pretty much the exact opposite of comparisons I've done with the RFC Venus. My preference is for the RFC Mercury Mk2 as I found the Venus just a tad too smooth and polite!
---- an old hifi dealer mate of mine, as crazed an audiophile as you are ever likely to meet :eyebrows:, reckoned that cable sound is very system dependent.
Maybe he's right and what we are hearing is as much the synergies involved as a specific sound attributable solely to the cables?
Never mind about all of that......
You're up at 06.25 on a Saturday????? :scratch:
anthonyTD
05-07-2014, 09:29
hi All,
First of all, i would like to make it clear that the Venus cables in my system do not' on the whole sound harsh or gritty, they are in fact one of the best, or should i say, least coloured cable i have heard in my system, However, i have to stand by what Marco is trying to describe what we heard when we substituted the Klotz in place of the Venus, which was a more evenness of high frequency detail, also,' i tighter, more accurate bass, and a more refined [if that’s the right word] sound over-all, now given that i have two pairs of the Venus cables, one pair from preamp to power amps [which we did not change] and one pair from one of my CD Players to preamp [which are the ones we substituted] i cannot say for sure whether we would have gotten the same presentation differences’ had we changed both sets of cables, or vice versa i.e.; preamp to power amps etc, so, again, i can only describe what i heard in the context of what was done at the time, what i can say though without a shadow of a doubt is that i was quite shocked how good the Klotz cable was in my system, so much so, that i have just finished putting two pairs of the 5000 together to try, i will let you know if my findings are as enthusiastic as before with the AC110.
A...
---- an old hifi dealer mate of mine, as crazed an audiophile as you are ever likely to meet :eyebrows:, reckoned that cable sound is very system dependent.
Maybe he's right and what we are hearing is as much the synergies involved as a specific sound attributable solely to the cables?
I think that's almost certainly the case, Jerry. In no way do I consider that the Venus is intrinsically 'harsh and gritty'; it isn't, but in comparison with the AC110, in Anthony's system, that's how it sounded (at least in terms of the best way I can subjectively describe the effect).
In terms of the Mercurys, remember I reported that they were only 5% better, in my system, than the VD Ultra Blacks - well the MC5000s address that balance, and rather more! ;)
I'll bring some MC5000s and AC110s down to your place on Sunday, and no doubt we'll get a different result again there!! :D
Marco.
hi All,
First of all, i would like to make it clear that the Venus cables in my system do not' on the whole sound harsh or gritty, they are in fact one of the best, or should i say, least coloured cable i have heard in my system, However, i have to stand by what Marco is trying to describe what we heard when we substituted the Klotz in place of the Venus, which was a more evenness of high frequency detail, also,' i tighter, more accurate bass, and a more refined [if that’s the right word] sound over-all, now given that i have two pairs of the Venus cables, one pair from preamp to power amps [which we did not change] and one pair from one of my CD Players to preamp [which are the ones we substituted] i cannot say for sure whether we would have gotten the same presentation differences’ had we changed both sets of cables, or vice versa i.e.; preamp to power amps etc, so, again, i can only describe what i heard in the context of what was done at the time, what i can say though without a shadow of a doubt is that i was quite shocked how good the Klotz cable was in my system, so much so, that i have just finished putting two pairs of the 5000 together to try, i will let you know if my findings are as enthusiastic as before with the AC110.
Yup, I'd agree with all of that. At the end of the day, you can only be honest and tell it as you hear it. It'll be interesting finding out what you think of the MC5000s. I'm not sure whether you will prefer them overall to the AC110s, as both cables have different sets of sonic attributes.
However, with the MC5000, make sure that you listen to it with the shield connected at the source end, as that does make a noticeable difference :)
Marco.
anthonyTD
05-07-2014, 09:52
Yep, i always use balanced cables, [in single ended mode] with shield connected at one end only''' at source! :)
.
However, with the MC5000, make sure that you listen to it with the shield connected at the source end, as that does make a noticeable difference :)
Marco.
anthonyTD
05-07-2014, 10:12
Another point i would like to make when reading statements about how cables cannot add anything to the original signal, and can only detract, well, that’s true in one respect, however, all cables have a percentage of resistance, reactance, and capacitance, and in turn they have quite an affect on the signal passing through it! Depending on how much of each' a cable has will determine [to a point] the character of the cables affect on the source signal applied. So' it is easy to understand how one cable can have a somewhat different sonic presentation in one system to another, although from my experience, some high end cables can carry the same or similar sonic presentation from one system to another, which in my opinion means that it has been specifically designed to do so, which again’ in my opinion is not the ideal' [far from it] as it restricts the ability of individual systems to show their true character, and therefore let the listener know whether each individual part in their system[whether it be a CD player, or phono-stage or...] is working optimally within the context of their system. At the end of the day' its up to you the listner to decide whether you think one or the other is right in your system or not!
A...
I hate verbal descriptions of a 'sound.' Crystalline is not an artefact I hear in the Klotz as it's most definitely NOT a 'HiFi' cable - in my opinion :scratch:
I didn't mean it in that sense, Dave. I meant it in the sense of it having 'superb clarity', or subjectively less distortion/coloration than all other cables I've heard, not just the Venus.
For me, any cables that possess those characteristics could also be said to be more 'accurate' - and for me, anything that is fundamentally more accurate, in turn portrays music more realistically, and therefore by definition, is more 'musical'.
I hope that explains things more clearly now :)
Marco.
For my sins I have just ordered 2 sets of the Van Damme white....
I think it is important to use a 'full loom' i.e same cable from source to pre and from pre to power. Not doing this really seems to show up in my system, not in any easy to define way but just a sense that the sound is 'struggling' a bit and is not so relaxing. Probably something to do with using a passive pre-amp? In any case I have to have the same cable for both, could just be OCD.
For my sins I have just ordered 2 sets of the Van Damme white....
Interesting... Why particularly VD white? I could loan you a set of AC110s (fitted with MS Audio plugs) for you to try and see what you think first, and/or you could use them to compare against the VD whites. Experience tells me, however, you'd most likely prefer the former! ;)
I think it is important to use a 'full loom' i.e same cable from source to pre and from pre to power.
I totally agree, but for assessment purposes, sometimes it just isn't practical.
Marco.
Interesting... Why particularly VD white? I could loan you a set of AC110s (fitted with MS Audio plugs) for you to try and see what you think first, and/or you could use them to compare against the VD whites. Experience tells me, however, you'd most likely prefer the former! ;)
.
Why VD White - because they are relatively cheap....just like me ;)
If you want to loan me the AC110 that would be great. It is trial and error with cables all you can do is experiment. Change a component and you start again.
Why VD White - because they are relatively cheap....just like me ;)
If you want to loan me the AC110 that would be great. It is trial and error with cables all you can do is experiment. Change a component and you start again.
So are the Klotz cables in question cheap, fitted with MS Audio plugs, which IME outperform any of the VD cables I've heard. I'll defo send you some AC110s to try, after I've been to Jerry's.
Can you use a 0.5m pair and 1m pair? That's what I use to wire up my system :)
Marco.
icehockeyboy
05-07-2014, 12:30
I notice A1 Sounds in Sheffield are now selling the combination of Van Damme Ultra White and Audioquest plugs under the item name of ' White Ultra Quest' This was the combination i went for.
I found them to be better than when it's supplied with standard plugs.
So are the Klotz cables in question cheap, fitted with MS Audio plugs, which IME outperform any of the VD cables I've heard. I'll defo send you some AC110s to try, after I've been to Jerry's.
Can you use a 0.5m pair and 1m pair? That's what I use to wire up my system :)
Marco.
Yep that's fine I don't need interconnects longer than about 05 metre for anything.
Coolio... I'll send you the AC110s then for a listen, as soon as I'm finished with them :)
Marco.
Yep, i alaways use balanced cables, with shield connected at one end only at source! :)
You use XLR plugs? Any interconnect fitted with RCA plugs is not balanced by the very nature of it only having two signal paths in the plug.
One of the three wires in a balanced cable connects the grounds of two components together, but there is usually no signal current flow through this wire.
Connecting the screen at one end only does not give you a balanced cable.
By the way, I have just rewired my MC5000 cables with the screen connected at the source end. It's sounding pretty good, but I am unsure if there is a difference.
brian2957
05-07-2014, 21:09
I did the same with the MC5000 the other day and thought the sound was all over the place. Loose bass and total loss of focus.
Fascinating to see folk picking up on the klotz ac110 cable now. I've been using them for the last couple of years, one a diy job I bought off a member here with puresound plugs and the other a Rega Couple. They just seemed to sound best with my other Rega gear and definitely played some part in that synergy we kept talking about. From what I gather it seems to suit a lot of other systems too...
I loaned them out to gaz and he found they also outperformed a few other cables he'd tried (mark grants?).
I stopped messing around with ICs once I found these, they will do me well for the considerable future I think.
Sovereign
06-07-2014, 12:09
Is anyone able to help, I went to buy the http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/301216168393
And they no longer list the rhodium plated ones, and can't find any one else that does.
Thanks
Do these aforementioned plugs really out-perform the £1.50 approx. baby Neutrik plugs? Come on, be honest now, as you can't see them when they're plugged in behind the gear........
Mr Kipling
06-07-2014, 13:51
You use XLR plugs? Any interconnect fitted with RCA plugs is not balanced by the very nature of it only having two signal paths in the plug.
One of the three wires in a balanced cable connects the grounds of two components together, but there is usually no signal current flow through this wire.
Connecting the screen at one end only does not give you a balanced cable.
By the way, I have just rewired my MC5000 cables with the screen connected at the source end. It's sounding pretty good, but I am unsure if there is a difference.
Just depends how you want to use the term balanced. If you used 300 ohm 'balanced' fm aerial cable, then you'd have a 'balanced' lead. If you used a co-axial cable with two cores and a screen and connect one core to hot and one to earth, you'd have what I would think of as a 'balanced' lead as both connections are using the same type of conductor construction. You can connect the shield, or not, if you wish. If you connect at the source and connect at the other with a small value capacitor it said to act as an rf filter. I think usual term for using cables in this way is pseudo balanced.
300 Ohm aerial feeder (ribbon) cable is called "balanced", because it is usually used to connect an aerial to a tuner, or receiver. The whole circuit: aerial and tuner is then balanced, with respect to earth potential.
If however the same ribbon cable is used as interconnect and terminated with RCA plugs, the interconnect is said to be unbalanced because one of the conductors of the cable will be at earth (or 0v) potential. The term "balanced" has nothing to do with the fact that the two conductors are identical, or have the same construction.
The term "semi-balanced" is misleading. Such cables use two identical conductors for both the signal flow and return, one of which is connected to the outer, 'earthy', part of the connector at each end. Surrounding this conductor pair will be some form of shield or screen. This latter is connected to the 'earthy' conductor at one end only. It is often, and erroneously, suggested that this common end is at the signal source, ie. CD player, tuner, per-amp etc. This may not be correct: the junction of the screen and the signal return conductor should be made at the point of the lowest electrical potential as regards the external interference, which will be the mains earth. It is not necessarily true that this will occur at the source (especially if the source is double-insulated and uses a two-core mains lead).
So the cable in this case is not "semi-balanced" at all, it is an unbalanced cable; the only (spurious) justification of the use of the term "balanced" might be in the use of two identical conductors for the signal path.
Late to the party, but Brian made me a set of the AC110 and the 5000 interconnects.
AC110 great, the 5000 betters that again.
Makes the music flow in a batural "non hifi"way.
Marvelous. :)
Another happy user. :cool:
Late to the party, but Brian made me a set of the AC110 and the 5000 interconnects.
The AC110 bettered my TQ Black.
the 5000 betters that again, best cable I've heard.
Makes the music flow in a "non hifi"way I've not heard before.
Marvelous. :)
Quite amazing, dude, innit? :eek: :wow:
Marco.
Yeah, and Van Damme and Klotz aren't in the tiniest bit shy of showing how their cables are made and how they measure in the real world :)
Mr Kipling
07-07-2014, 18:59
300 Ohm aerial feeder (ribbon) cable is called "balanced", because it is usually used to connect an aerial to a tuner, or receiver. The whole circuit: aerial and tuner is then balanced, with respect to earth potential.
If however the same ribbon cable is used as interconnect and terminated with RCA plugs, the interconnect is said to be unbalanced because one of the conductors of the cable will be at earth (or 0v) potential. The term "balanced" has nothing to do with the fact that the two conductors are identical, or have the same construction.
The term "semi-balanced" is misleading. Such cables use two identical conductors for both the signal flow and return, one of which is connected to the outer, 'earthy', part of the connector at each end. Surrounding this conductor pair will be some form of shield or screen. This latter is connected to the 'earthy' conductor at one end only. It is often, and erroneously, suggested that this common end is at the signal source, ie. CD player, tuner, per-amp etc. This may not be correct: the junction of the screen and the signal return conductor should be made at the point of the lowest electrical potential as regards the external interference, which will be the mains earth. It is not necessarily true that this will occur at the source (especially if the source is double-insulated and uses a two-core mains lead).
So the cable in this case is not "semi-balanced" at all, it is an unbalanced cable; the only (spurious) justification of the use of the term "balanced" might be in the use of two identical conductors for the signal path.
Well, yes. What you say is true. But I'd still say an unbalanced cable can, in a sense, be balanced or semi-balanced. But that's just how I see it. And seen it described as such elsewhere.
Yeah, and Van Damme and Klotz aren't in the tiniest bit shy of showing how their cables are made and how they measure in the real world :)
Good point... :eyebrows:
Although you know me, I only care about how it sounds!
Marco.
The Black Adder
07-07-2014, 19:52
Must try some, who can make some up?
Brian (Brian2957) is your man, the cables are his baby, though he's too modest to announce it.
He'll see you alright.
The plugs are his baby. The cable was mine. :ner:
Teamwork at it's best.
The Black Adder
07-07-2014, 20:11
Brian (Brian2957) is your man, the cables are his baby, though he's too modest to announce it.
He'll see you alright.
Oh, righto... Yes, I've used Brian before, just didn't realise. Nice one, ta!
:hifive: :grouphug:
Marco.
Yes, I've used Brian before...
Lol... Did you clear that first with his wife? :D
Marco.
RobbieGong
07-07-2014, 20:31
V busy these days so not as much hifi n AOS time as I'd like but I've caught bits of this thread - GOSH! the 5000 sounds amazing (no pun intended as they shouldn't have a sound as such should they lol !). This reminds me of the Yannis tonearm cable thread and what a cable that turned out to be. Are the plugs being used similar to the silver bullet type found on the Mercury's (Eichman KLE's I think ??) Massive thumbs up Mr Marco and co for another superb and most helpful thread :)
ah - ha! :)
The spirit of AOS.
The plugs are his baby. The cable was mine. :ner:
Teamwork at it's best.
RobbieGong
07-07-2014, 21:20
ah - ha! :)
The spirit of AOS.
lol ! Cool !!
brian2957
07-07-2014, 21:40
The plugs are his baby. The cable was mine. :ner:
Teamwork at it's best.
Yup , credit where credit's due Kevin . :cool:
brian2957
07-07-2014, 21:42
Lol... Did you clear that first with his wife? :D
Marco.
Cheeky boy :spank:
Canetoad
07-07-2014, 23:12
I tried to order 5m of the MC5000 cable from Audio Spares and at checkout they added £400 for postage! :mental: I sent an e-mail to clarify but have had no reply from them. Would anybody be interested in ordering it and forwarding it on to me here in Oz? I'll cover any costs. :)
Bloody hell, Bernie, when did you move from Dunfermline? :eek:
Marco.
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