View Full Version : VFM/SPPV studio cables test
Kevin, I'll throw a curved ball into the mix... Before deciding on anything, I'd advise you to listen to a set of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Ignore the price. The Gothams are what many well-known studios use, often to produce some top-notch recordings. If they were 'audiophile branded' cables they'd cost £100s more. I've been playing around with some recently and have been rather shocked at how good they are! :eek:
More info here: http://roadworthycables.com/gotham-cable and here: http://hey-wire-cables.myshopify.com/collections/guitar-cables
Marco.
The Barbarian
25-04-2014, 21:41
Thanks Marco.. that 5 Pin Din to pair of Female RCA lead is handy..Infact looking on all that 4/5 Pin Din cabling is a vintage fanboys dream..
No worries, dude. Trust me, Andre - the Gothams are very good!
Marco.
Do a second test but this time pausing the track and not restarting it. You should be able to hear a much more concise difference.. if there is any.
The way I have tested cables was to use a mono recordings. I put one cable in left channel and the other in the right channel and switch back and forth between them. I make the mono digital tracks using the Audacity software.
Thanks for the info Marco.
How do you think they will compare to something like the G2000HD?
If I am perfectly honest, I am really enjoying the Mercury at the moment. I'm going to have another listen to the Pluto just to double check my thoughts/findings, but I think that the Mercury is likely the one out of the two to be staying.
I'm also tempted to send the Super Sound Cords back, and try the Super Sound Pipes.
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for the info Marco.
How do you think they will compare to something like the G2000HD?
Of course much will depend on the partnering system, however one thing the Gothams seem to excel at is in areas such as transient attack and timing acuity, presenting instruments such as drums with real dynamic 'snap', as well as a rather engaging and 'bouncy' rhythmic swing. They make music fun to listen to with their addictively tuneful sonic presentation!
Furthermore, because of seemingly being devoid of 'grain', they allow music to ebb and flow naturally from the quietest of backdrops (most likely a by-product of their excellent RF-rejection), allowing, for example, cymbals to shimmer with a sparkling clarity, without any sense of smearing, which I've seldom experienced from other cables.
In short, the level of clarity, resolution, and most importantly musicality, on offer from the Gothams, is astounding given their bargain-basement price. If you can, I'd defo give them a listen, as I think you'd be rather pleasantly surprised by them :)
Marco.
jandl100
26-04-2014, 07:41
Gothams? - ah, yep - a former enthusiasm of mine on the Wam forum 5 or 6 (?) years ago.
Aha, it was 7 years ago - here is one of the Wam threads http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?5725-Cable-Wars-!-Gotham-GAC1-vs-Atlas-Voyager&highlight=gotham+jandl100 - featuring Frank effem and Griffo :eek:
Very good for a few tens of £ imo - good clarity but on extended listening a bit greyed out tonally and a bit grainy in the mids as well. Well focussed and superb in the bass, though, that's their real strength imo.
IMO, YMMV etc. :)
Nowhere near as good overall as MG cables or RFC Pluto2 imho.
But maybe the Goths have changed since I had them? :scratch:
The Pluto is good, but I think I still prefer the Mercury.
More listening tonight should confirm.
I'm wondering how good the Gotham really is, but I have enough cables at my house for the moment.
I'm pretty sure that the NVA sound cord will probably be better, and that is a cheap IC.
Yup, Jerry, I would largely echo your thoughts, although in my system I'm not getting the tonally "greyed out" or grainy thing (far from it), but all the positives you state. Undoubtedly, however, the effectiveness (or otherwise) of any specific cable is very system-dependent.
Therefore, I'm not proclaiming the Gothams as being the next 'wonder cable', although undoubtedly they are stupidly good for the money. I've had worse results from interconnects costing several hundred pounds more!
I bought them mainly as a bit of fun, but was rather shocked at how good they sounded. However, there's something amusingly perverse about using £20 interconnects in a £30k system!! :eyebrows:
The Ultra Pros are a little different from the standard GAC-1s, having improved microphonic noise rejection, due to a slightly different internal construction.
Marco.
jandl100
26-04-2014, 09:05
The Ultra Pros are a little different from the standard GAC-1s, having improved microphonic noise rejection, due to a slightly different internal construction.
Marco.
Noted - and I've just bought a pair of the Ultra Pro to check 'em out. ;)
P.S One interesting thing your link to the Wam revealed is that Sodders is currently showing as being banned! :eek: Wot 'appened there, then?
:lol: No - he's now turned 'dealer status' and is very much alive (or perhaps better to call him undead :eyebrows:) and kicking under another ID. Tis odd that he comes up as banned under his previous ID, though.
Hi Kevin,
Of course much will depend on the partnering system, however one thing the Gothams seem to excel at is in areas such as transient attack and timing acuity, presenting instruments such as drums with real dynamic 'snap', as well as a rather engaging and 'bouncy' rhythmic swing. They make music fun to listen to with their addictively tuneful sonic presentation!
Furthermore, because of seemingly being devoid of 'grain', they allow music to ebb and flow naturally from the quietest of backdrops (most likely a by-product of their excellent RF-rejection), allowing, for example, cymbals to shimmer with a sparkling clarity, without any sense of smearing, which I've seldom experienced from other cables.
In short, the level of clarity, resolution, and most importantly musicality, on offer from the Gothams, is astounding given their bargain-basement price. If you can, I'd defo give them a listen, as I think you'd be rather pleasantly surprised by them :)
Marco.
I think I will try a pair of these having read your enthusiastic appraisal of them! At that price they should be in Lidl:lol:
Noted - and I've just bought a pair of the Ultra Pro to check 'em out. ;)
You'll notice that they're quite a bit thicker than the standard GAC-1s (if you remember what they looked like). Btw, if the plugs are a slightly loose fit on the sockets of your kit, as they are on mine, simply crimp the ends a bit with some pliers. It makes a difference having nice snug connections :)
Marco.
I think I will try a pair of these having read your enthusiastic appraisal of them! At that price they should be in Lidl:lol:
Indeed, Jim. Let me know what you think. They certainly do some good things in my system. Worst case scenario is that you'll end up with a nice new necklace! :D
Marco.
kininigin
26-04-2014, 11:51
Kevin, I'll throw a curved ball into the mix... Before deciding on anything, I'd advise you to listen to a set of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Ignore the price. The Gothams are what many well-known studios use, often to produce some top-notch recordings. If they were 'audiophile branded' cables they'd cost £100s more. I've been playing around with some recently and have been rather shocked at how good they are! :eek:
More info here: http://roadworthycables.com/gotham-cable and here: http://hey-wire-cables.myshopify.com/collections/guitar-cables
Marco.
I've had a couple of pairs of these for a few years! ;) And currently have a pair between dac and pre! I pulled them back out the draw after i sold my Mark grants (to fund a trip).
I plugged the CuSat50 in last night before going to bed, and left the CD player spinning all night.
The sound is much better than I remember on first listen. It's now sounding very good indeed. Almost as good as the Mercury (similar to the Pluto).
I am really intrigued by current happenings, as when I begun, I didn't believe that cables would make that much difference, nor did I believe that a cable could "run in", but the sound has opened up so much more from what I remember.
I don't think it lets as much detail through in comparison to the Mercury, but it's reasonably close. It's a nice sounding cable. It's a really tough choice between this and the Pluto, but I think I would buy the Pluto, as it's cheaper, and more than likely based on the same cable. The only difference is the plugs. (My GSP forum members 10% discount makes it even tougher choice between the two).
I still keep going back to the Mercury though. Now I just need to figure out where in my system I should put my cables to maximise the sound quality.
So, from what I have heard during my auditions, my preferences in order for sound quality (ignoring price) are as follows:
RFC Mercury
MG G2000HD
RFC Pluto & GSP CuSat50 - Hard to separate these two.
SSC - (very close behind the two above).
Black Rhodium Coda
VFM wise, the list would look completely different, with the SSC topping the list for me. It's a really good IC for the money.
I have answered my original question, and I have also managed to remove all of the VDH cables from my system.
It's sounding sweet now, but I am thinking of rearranging my room to shorten the length of speaker cable runs I currently use. I have currently got 10m runs of cable, but with a cunning bit of planning, I can probably get that down to 3m, so I can buy some better cable. That will have to wait a while though...
I have a RFC cable to pay for. ;)
Wakefield Turntables
26-04-2014, 20:00
These comparisons are all very well but surely it makes more sense to try and get a "full loom" of the same cable in your system to make a real meaningfull test of any interconnect. I have only done this once, and this was with Yannis IC's, and cos I've got active speakers I didnt need any speaker cable. I'd personally love a whole loom of RFC IC's, I dont think Paul would be too happy doing that though. :(
RFC Mercury
MG G2000HD
RFC Pluto & GSP CuSat50 - Hard to separate these two.
SSC - (very close behind the two above).
Black Rhodium Coda
I'm glad you've said that, because I use Mercurys twixt pre and power in a 3m length. This was a huge upgrade over some old Maplin Thor cable, unsurprisingly. I rate it highly - it really is fantastically well resolved stuff. I tried some seriously expensive ICs from a chap who used to do cables for AN UK. the other week This was twixt pre and DAC versus some Nordost Red Dawn. I was really surprised how well the Red Dawn stood up, though the mystery cables were 2m+ as opposed to the 0.6m length of Red Dawn with Eichmanns. Mind you, Nordost seem to think longer ICs sound better. I wonder why, LOL. What really surprised me, if I am totally honest, is I could hear bugger all difference between the Red Dawn and the expensive stuff. Well, really incredibly small differences might have been heard, if you know what I mean.
These comparisons are all very well but surely it makes more sense to try and get a "full loom" of the same cable in your system to make a real meaningfull test of any interconnect. I have only done this once, and this was with Yannis IC's, and cos I've got active speakers I didnt need any speaker cable. I'd personally love a whole loom of RFC IC's, I dont think Paul would be too happy doing that though. :(
I totally agree, but one cable at a time for me. My next purchase is likely to be another cable of the same type to go to the headphone amp. This is what I use the most. I'm also likely to ask Paul if he can do a much shorter cable, as I have a 0.5m cable between my amps, and it's far too long.
For my "testing", the IC connected the source component to my headphone amp, so I could hear what each cable was doing without interference from anything else. It's the only way I could achieve a meaningful audition.
Have those of you who ordered the Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pros received them yet, and if so, what are your impressions? :)
Marco.
I just tried them
They beat the Belkin Pure more detail
Rather good aren't they, John? The price is just bonkers for the performance on offer... :mental:
Make sure that they make a nice snug connection on your gear, as sometimes the plugs can be a bit loose. If that's the case, just gently crimp the plug ends with a pair of pliers, which results in a notable sonic improvement :)
Marco.
Stratmangler
30-04-2014, 23:04
Got some winging their way ....
This looks h'interesting http://www.gotham.ch/en/index.php?section=docsys&cmd=450_details&id=251
Yeah, Chris, I noticed that article about the Gotham cable. I think it goes some way towards explaining its effectiveness :)
Marco.
Stratmangler
30-04-2014, 23:31
I was looking more at the cable resistance per kilometer, that and the capacitance per kilometer.
The bit about physical handling of the cable and issues caused by it while in use is a known problem amongst the guitar wielding fraternity ...
Indeed, and those factors are very significant, as I believe is this bit, which I suspect is also providing some sonic benefits in audio use:
With this ultra Pro version we have gone one step forward by adding yet another lawyer of conductive plastic between the conducter (7) itself and the isolation of the conductor. Making a sandwich kind of conductive material between the 2 copper shields and the conductor isolation itself.
Either way, for £20 these cables are a bit of a revelation! :)
Marco.
Had a few sets of these over the years, they were very good.
The speaker cable was good too.
Rather good aren't they, John? The price is just bonkers for the performance on offer... :mental:
Make sure that they make a nice snug connection on your gear, as sometimes the plugs can be a bit loose. If that's the case, just gently crimp the plug ends with a pair of pliers, which results in a notable sonic improvement :)
Marco.
Yes I like them I am not really a cable guy these days I tend to focus on other areas of my system to develop SQ but these offer great value mixed with good SQ
The Black Adder
01-05-2014, 07:32
Great!... This is exactly what we are all looking for, a balance of great cables, great performance, great price and great service.
And NO secrets!
All good!:)
Have those of you who ordered the Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pros received them yet, and if so, what are your impressions? :)
Marco.
Yes, received and Initial listening very good, however need to give good burn in to fully evaluate them. So far I can say for £20 they are a bargain. Compared it to my current IC which is a blue cable with some gold RCA plugs (I would love to know what it is but unfortunately there is nothing written on the cable and I bought it second hand from a friend who could not tell me what it was either!)
The Gothams are fairly neutral but have a slightly constricted soundstage, this maybe because they need running in. Detail is there and they are fairly tight in the base. However the slight downside I have at the moment is their lack of air and transparency.
Will report back when run in properly but for £20 they would not embarass themselves against much more costly cables. I have certainly heard much more expensive cables which sound no better or in fact worse.
PS I have put a post up asking if anyone has a Mark Grant G2000HD WBT cu RCA I could borrow to try:)
I'd be interested to see how these compare to Sound Cords.
Hi Jim,
Nice one - thanks for your comments. Glad you seem to be (mostly) enjoying them so far.
The Gothams are fairly neutral but have a slightly constricted soundstage, this maybe because they need running in. Detail is there and they are fairly tight in the base. However the slight downside I have at the moment is their lack of air and transparency.
It could be a burn-in thing, as I did notice that the Gothams, pretty much like any other cables I've used, open up more with a bit of use. However, there are no soundstage issues or a lack of air and transparency in my system, as a result of using them - quite opposite in fact! Both a friend, who's down visiting, and I are trying our hardest to be ultra-critical, and it’s really quite difficult to fault them.
Of course, as ever, the performance of cables is very system-dependent. However, what you've got to be careful of is in deciding which type of sound is 'right'. For instance, could your perceiving the Gothams as lacking air and transparency be because your previous cables were a little bright, and therefore were giving a false (slightly hyped-up) impression of detail? Are the Gothams simply being more honest and highlighting system deficiencies?
Or do they inherently lack air and transparency, in comparison with other cables which excel in that area? Furthermore, which type of presentation ultimately suits the sonic signature of your system? It's always a tricky one with cables!
As far as in the context of my own system goes, I can detect no significant downsides with the Gothams, and as such they have become my interconnect cables of choice, as for me they act as being the closest to having 'no sound' as I've heard to date from any cables. For me, that is the ultimate goal, as I don't use cables as tone controls.
I intend to play around with some 'fancy plugs', and see whether their performance can be further improved in that way or not, as their rock-bottom price in stock form allows for experimenting with some exotic plugs, the use of which if successful will still ensure that their final cost will remain very reasonable indeed, and most importantly, significantly at a distance from that of cables in the recognised high-end category.
Achieving maximum SPPV here, as ever, is the goal! :)
Marco.
I agree - they may need burning in a tad more and the transparency /air issue may be to do more with slight colouration of my current cable although I have heard another cable which did add even more transparency and air but a tad too expensive for me (Chord Sarum Tuned Array). If you do ever get the chance to try one of these it could be a revelation but also empty your wallet:lol:
As I said my initial impression of the Gothams were their neutrality. If they open up a bit more then they may well turn out to be more than a bargain! I will crimp the connectors a bit as they were slightly loose. Did you notice the plugs were made by the American phenolic company? Just wondered as I have seen these cables with different RCA connectors:scratch:
After a few days I moved back to the Belkin The Belkin is not as detailed but I prefer the balance especially with guitars
Indeed, and those factors are very significant, as I believe is this bit, which I suspect is also providing some sonic benefits in audio use:
Either way, for £20 these cables are a bit of a revelation! :)
Marco.
I've made up many interconnects in the past using similar low-noise cable. £20/ stereo metre seems to be astonishing value, and puts a certain other cable in its place!.
twickers
01-05-2014, 23:38
Does anyone know if THESE (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0007YBFDU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) differ apart from the colour coding to the audio variety? The specs seem the same to me. Cheap as chips as well.
The Grand Wazoo
01-05-2014, 23:42
I'm pretty sure that it's the same wire as in the other original types - the biggest difference seems to be that the three runs get bunched through a plastic 'thingy' about a foot or so from the connectors, so the middle section is one piece.
twickers
01-05-2014, 23:52
Yeah, i just noticed the plastic thingy. Still £3 delivered...;)
After a few days I moved back to the Belkin The Belkin is not as detailed but I prefer the balance especially with guitars
Interesting, John. I find the Belkins a bit 'dark' and somewhat 'smoothed over' in comparison. However, that may be because they're much longer (2m), whereas the Gothams I'm using are 0.5m and 1m. My preamp generally doesn't get on well with long interconnects.
Marco.
I've made up many interconnects in the past using similar low-noise cable. £20/ stereo metre seems to be astonishing value, and puts a certain other cable in its place!.
Lol... It's liable to do so even more when I upgrade the stock plugs used on the Gothams for a set of these chaps:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/842/15v6.jpg
Shown fitted to some thinn-ish cables of a similar diameter to the Gotham:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/845/zu0o.jpg
...and the finished cables will still come in at less than £200 a pair! ;)
Marco.
Interesting, John. I find the Belkins a bit 'dark' and somewhat 'smoothed over' in comparison. However, that may be because they're much longer (2m), whereas the Gothams I'm using are 0.5m and 1m. My preamp generally doesn't get on well with long interconnects.
Marco.
Who was the supplier of your Gotham cables Marco? Are they the "GAC-1 Ultra Pro" type? What type of RCA phono connectors are fitted?
I like the look of these cables (from a technical point of view) and for ~£20 they appear to be a bargain. Whilst I usually prefer to assemble my own cables, I don't think I could make any for such a low cost as these.
Here they are, Barry:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I can thoroughly recommend the efficiency and professionalism of the seller.
The Amphenol plugs are very good (although can be a slightly loose fit on certain sockets), however the tweaker in me can't resist the thought of trying some 'posh plugs' on the end instead and seeing what happens! ;)
Marco.
Thanks for that Marco.
Think I might try a pair and run them against my own efforts. :eyebrows:
Nice one, Barry. It'll be interesting to see what your findings are :)
The Gothams certainly work really well in my system.
Marco.
Hehe I have a pair of Gotham GAC-1s hiding somewhere and it's been so long since I used them I have forgotten what their sound is like.
It was good old Jerry that sparked my interest, along with his "Hitachi moment" and his "Silver High Breed moment" and probably a couple more "moments" I have long since forgotten about :eyebrows: I was trying to find the Silver High Breed cables a while back that Jerry sold to me with a cracked RCA plug which then fell apart subsequently and still baffled where the heck they went to so I could repair them for another play session.
That man needs to be issued with a wealth warning label :lol:
icehockeyboy
02-05-2014, 11:36
Hehe I have a pair of Gotham GAC-1s hiding somewhere and it's been so long since I used them I have forgotten what their sound is like.
It was good old Jerry that sparked my interest, along with his "Hitachi moment" and his "Silver High Breed moment" and probably a couple more "moments" I have long since forgotten about :eyebrows: I was trying to find the Silver High Breed cables a while back that Jerry sold to me with a cracked RCA plug which then fell apart subsequently and still baffled where the heck they went to so I could repair them for another play session.
That man needs to be issued with a wealth warning label :lol:
Many of us have purchased things after Jerrys 'moments'. :)
Here they are, Barry:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I can thoroughly recommend the efficiency and professionalism of the seller.
The Amphenol plugs are very good (although can be a slightly loose fit on certain sockets), however the tweaker in me can't resist the thought of trying some 'posh plugs' on the end instead and seeing what happens! ;)
Marco.
Just what i was thinking. First I will try getting a tighter fit and see if that makes a difference.
Interesting, John. I find the Belkins a bit 'dark' and somewhat 'smoothed over' in comparison. However, that may be because they're much longer (2m), whereas the Gothams I'm using are 0.5m and 1m. My preamp generally doesn't get on well with long interconnects.
Marco.
mmmm... I have a fairly long IC on my valve set up. Maybe I should think of keeping it short, under 1 metre?:scratch:
Many of us have purchased things after Jerrys 'moments'. :)
Lol... I knew not a thing about Jerry-boy's 'moments' - the Gothams purchase was entirely of my own volition. I hadn't even heard of them until recently.
Marco.
mmmm... I have a fairly long IC on my valve set up. Maybe I should think of keeping it short, under 1 metre?:scratch:
Try it, Jim... Cables are usually best kept as short as possible.
Marco.
twickers
02-05-2014, 12:43
I've ordered a set of the Belkins and a 0.5m pair of the Gothams Ultra-Pro.
Stratmangler
02-05-2014, 18:46
GAC-1 Pro arrived today.
I like :D
I might try some of their guitar cables, because the interconnect doesn't seem to hold anything back.
Figlet108
02-05-2014, 21:22
For what it's worth I also jumped on the bandwagon and bought 2 pairs of the Ultra Pros for the main system and I'm very impressed.
As well as sounding better than the previous cables I was using they are *much better* at rejecting non-mains emi/rfi, which as a package works so much better in my system.
Nice construction too.
those GAC-1 pro cables look good and are cheap...how do they compare to other cables you've had in the past?
jandl100
02-05-2014, 22:36
I've just got back from a few days away and the Gotham Ultras are here waiting for me. :)
I also collect some RFC Mercury i/c from Paul on Tuesday.
Will they really knock the Pluto2 off of their 'most favoured' slot at Jerry Towers? :scratch:
Will the Gotham Ultras beat 'em both? :eek:
I'm sure you are all agog. :lol: Watch this space. :popcorn:
Anyone tried the XLR version of the Gothams?
Figlet108
02-05-2014, 22:58
those GAC-1 pro cables look good and are cheap...how do they compare to other cables you've had in the past?
James, without mentioning the brand of cable I'm comparing to (as I can't be bothered with the tedious and predictable consequences), to my ears and in my system there is a fuller sound and no harshness that I sometimes used to hear. For example on a favourite Wynton Marsalis trumpet concerto album there are some cadenzas that used to get a little piercing. Not so with the GAC. It sounds just right now.
jandl100
03-05-2014, 05:45
James, without mentioning the brand of cable I'm comparing to (as I can't be bothered with the tedious and predictable consequences....
Oh, go on, Jason. Spill the beans.
The cable trolls are being dealt with - let's see if we can go back to the AOS of old, where genuine views, thoughts and opinions could be expressed without fear of ridicule. :thumbsup:
GAC-1 Pro arrived today.
I like :D
I might try some of their guitar cables, because the interconnect doesn't seem to hold anything back.
A very musical indeed with great bass.
Stratmangler
03-05-2014, 08:27
A very musical indeed with great bass.
I might take 'em round to a friend's place later and just give 'em a run in his system to see what he thinks ;)
Stratmangler
03-05-2014, 09:52
I've also ordered another set, which might tell you something ;)
Those Gotham cables are so 1990's :lol: hifi dave used to sell this brand and rated them yonks ago :)
They are remarkably low cost compared to other cables I've seen discussed in here recently (SLIC for example) certainly added them to my list if maybes.
jandl100
03-05-2014, 11:28
I've just plugged the Gotham Ultras in - very positive 1st impressions.
Excellent focus and imaging. Very articulate.
Much more listening required to different musics, but I'll wager these will go to the top of my bargain cable list. I've heard far more expensive cables that didn't sound half as good. :thumbsup:
The Black Adder
03-05-2014, 12:11
Those Gotham cables are so 1990's :lol: hifi dave used to sell this brand and rated them yonks ago :)
ahem... and?... lol
Those Gotham cables are so 1990's :lol: hifi dave used to sell this brand and rated them yonks ago...
Well, I guess they're 'new' if you haven't discovered them before :)
I'm glad that some peeps seem to be enjoying the Gothams. I'd like to see more focus on AoS being placed upon using high-quality studio-grade cables, such as Gotham, Van Damme, Belden, etc, than on 'audiophile' types, as in the cable world, that's undoubtedly where the highest SPPV lies.
Marco.
The Black Adder
03-05-2014, 12:32
I've had some Gothams for donkeys.. Great cables. One of my friends who has a studio swears by them so if they fit your system then that's superb! :) They ousted Chord Cobra II's as well as many others.
The only thing about them (as already addressed by Marco) is that the Amphenol plugs can be a little loose sometimes (not often), just nip em up and park your bike.
Who's round is it? :cool:
The only thing about them (as already addressed by Marco) is that the Amphenol plugs can be a little loose sometimes (not often), just nip em up and park your bike.
Indeed. I'm looking forward to fitting the Furutech plugs, as I suspect it could create a cable that will be able to compete with most others on the market, even some truly 'high-end' varieties, for a fraction of the price. *That* for me is where the fun is to be had, not dropping 500 notes on a Slic! ;)
Incidentally, folks who are saying that they've used/heard the Gothams before, please be sure that you're referring to the 'Ultra-Pros', as shown below:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
...and not the bog-standard GAC-1s, shown here (even though they look very similar in the picture): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380142831194?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I've tried both cables, and they are NOT the same. The Ultra-Pros (apart from being of thicker construction) are sonically superior by a considerable margin! Therefore, folks, do bear that in mind before making any judgements.
Marco.
kininigin
03-05-2014, 13:08
Indeed. I'm looking forward to fitting the Furutech plugs, as I suspect it could create a cable that will be able to compete with most others on the market, even some truly 'high-end' varieties, for a fraction of the price. *That* for me is where the fun is to be had, not dropping 500 notes on a Slic! ;)
Incidentally, folks who are saying that they've used/heard the Gothams before, please be sure that you're referring to the 'Ultra-Pros', as shown below:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
...and not the bog-standard GAC-1s, shown here (even though they look very similar in the picture): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380142831194?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I've tried both cables, and they are NOT the same. The Ultra-Pros (apart from being of thicker construction) are sonically superior by a considerable margin! Therefore, folks, do bear that in mind before making any judgement on them.
Marco.
I can't remember which versions i have but they have different plugs to either of the ones you linked to! I think i have neutrik plugs on mine.They are a very tight fit and not loose what so ever! I've ordered a 'pro' version to go between my croft and external x-over for my sub! So will see if there is a difference between them!
I can't remember which versions i have but they have different plugs to either of the ones you linked to! I think i have neutrik plugs on mine.They are a very tight fit and not loose what so ever!
Hi Darren,
They would be a tight fit if yours used Neutriks, as they always offer a very secure connection. The Amphenol plugs are different, although despite that, they may actually sound better. Who knows? :)
However, you've successfully highlighted another variable, so those who are saying that they've heard the Gothams before: were they the Ultra-Pros or stock versions, and moreover, which plugs were used? All these things make a difference.
Therefore, unless you've heard the Ultra-Pros, fitted with Amphenol plugs, you haven't heard the same Gotham cables I've been listening to, and have reported on here.
Marco.
Hi Marko, just tightened up plug connectors on the Ultrapro Gothams and
Noticed quite a difference straight away. Much improved with bit more detail now but that mAybe also they have been burned in for about 20 hours now. They are certainly unbelievable for the price.
Where are you using this cable and what cable do you normally use between your pre and power amp?
I have to say that I also very much like the NVA SoundCords I BOUGHT!!! I'm using a 1m and now a 0.5m length (started as 0.7m but I had an 'accident' - cough :rolleyes: Why do I bring these up now? Well, they're an easy to solder (for me) RG316 based cable and the plugs, although not at all posh looking, do the business perfectly in electrical terms and don't tear some sockets apart when pulled out and are low in capacitance I believe (old memories of a black version), unlike some cheaper plugs with over-tight fit. I just find the perceived sound a bit better ordered in terms of interpreting a recorded mix left-right and front-back, my Van Dammes and others not quite as clear in this aspect to me. The MG cables I also use are a little more assertive up top perhaps, but I'd be damned if I could tell the difference blindfolded :) Like all good online suppliers, they're returnable if not suitable and there's also a ready market for used ones, they're so cheap.
Looking through my cables box I found a (balanced) cable I made up (and fitted with XLR connectors) using Gotham GAC-2 cable.
http://www.gotham.ch/en/index.php?section=docsys&cmd=21_details&id=8
Since I have no further use for it, and being 4 metre long, I plan to cut it up to make some shorter leads.
Still intend to try out the Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pro.
http://www.gotham.ch/en/index.php?section=docsys&cmd=23_details&id=251.
I'd like to see more focus on AoS being placed on using high-quality studio-grade cables, such as Gotham, Van Damme, Belden, etc, than on 'audiophile' types, as in the cable world, that's undoubtedly where the highest SPPV lies.
I have made up several cables in the past using ‘non-audiophile’ cable. Some of these cables have been run past friends, whose hearing I trust, for their comments. There were two sets using two different types of Belden cable. One was a resounding success, the other turned out to be a bit of a disappointment. You win some, you lose some!
Some of the Belden tinned-conductor cables can sound a bit monotonic in the treble, at least when new. probably total rubbish here, but I'm convinced this improves as time and use goes on...
Hi Marko, just tightened up plug connectors on the Ultrapro Gothams and
Noticed quite a difference straight away. Much improved with bit more detail now but that mAybe also they have been burned in for about 20 hours now. They are certainly unbelievable for the price.
Nice one - I also found that crimping the ends of the plugs, in order to provide a tighter connection, made a difference. I consider the Amphenol plugs to be inherently good, but how well they 'mate' (or otherwise) with some sockets is definitely their weak point, which I hope to address when fitting some 'posher' plugs.
Where are you using this cable and what cable do you normally use between your pre and power amp?
I'm using the Gothams throughout my system now (DAC to preamp and preamp to power amp, as well as MC head amp to preamp/phono stage). They've replaced MG 2000HDs and Yannis 223.5 Connect Litz, neither of which were exactly shabby! :eek:
Marco.
wee tee cee
03-05-2014, 17:34
I have ordered a pair of the Gothams to give them a go. I noticed they sell a Y cable female rca-to twin male rca, ordered one of those also to let me bi amp 63s with a couple of mini Ts. At the prices advertised its not too hard to justify a bit of hobby indulgence.
The Black Adder
03-05-2014, 19:23
I have ordered a pair of the Gothams to give them a go. I noticed they sell a Y cable female rca-to twin male rca, ordered one of those also to let me bi amp 63s with a couple of mini Ts. At the prices advertised its not too hard to justify a bit of hobby indulgence.
I ordered a Y splitter from them quite a while back... They are very well made. I was very happy with it.
I tried the Pluto, and I bought the Mercury.
The mercury allow more detail, focus and transparency to flow to the end user in comparison to the Pluto.
My question about the Sound Cords was with reference to the Gotham £20 cable.
I still fancy trying the SSP in my system, but need to check my proposed cable run carefully, to make sure I won't put it under strain.
A few more days in, and I am really liking the RFC Mercury Mk.2. The detail I am hearing on my 180g pressing of Quadrophenia is news to my ears. I never knew some of it was there. :cool:
It's a bit more than I wanted to spend, but it's making my headphone setup sound great! I just need to soften Mrs H up so that I can order a 2nd one soon, but I have a feeling that as I have now stripped the 2nd bathroom back to a bare shell, HiFi expenditure will go on the back burner for a while. :(
Can anybody with a Batman Wayne Enterprises Gotham cable let me know how this sounds compared to the original yellow coloured Cambridge Audio Pacific?
With the absence of Dark Knights, it would be good to know so that I can prep my system for next winter, before some joker comes along to change everything.
I know cables are very system dependant, and what works for one person, may not suit another. The ideal solution would be for me to buy a couple, but the £6.50 postage charge puts me off. It's no longer so much of a bargain.
Stratmangler
03-05-2014, 19:59
Can anybody with a Batman Wayne Enterprises Gotham cable let me know how this sounds compared to the original yellow coloured Cambridge Audio Pacific?
I had this conversation earlier on today with a good friend of mine.
The Pacific cables weren't three bad, but I moved away from them a while ago, making my own pseudo balanced interconnects with Shark twin core & screen cable.
I made some more interconnects based on a lower capacitance Shark twin core cable to the same pseudo balanced configuration, and these have done me proud for a good while.
The Gotham GAC-1 Pro is better than all of the aformentioned cables.
The good friend I mentioned heard the Gothams in his own system, and is going to be ordering a couple of sets - he couldn't believe what he was hearing from his system.
It did sound rather good, I must admit :)
Thanks for the response.
I can't believe that the CA Pacifics are selling on ebay for the original RRP many years on. Crazy stuff.
Stratmangler
03-05-2014, 20:09
Crazy times indeed .... :mental:
When does one buy these Gotham cables?
Figlet108
03-05-2014, 20:28
Can anybody with a Batman Wayne Enterprises Gotham cable let me know how this sounds compared to the original yellow coloured Cambridge Audio Pacific?
With the absence of Dark Knights, it would be good to know so that I can prep my system for next winter, before some joker comes along to change everything.
I know cables are very system dependant, and what works for one person, may not suit another. The ideal solution would be for me to buy a couple, but the £6.50 postage charge puts me off. It's no longer so much of a bargain.
Kevin, I'm not sure if I've misunderstood, but the Gotham City cable is free delivery:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=628349484687&afsrc=1
It's hand delivered by a chap in a scarecrow mask...
If it's of any interest, the cables that this comic book Marvel has replaced for me is NVA SSP, which will soon be going up for sale.
For all of £40 that it cost to full loom the system it's the best impulse buy for a long time.
Figlet108
03-05-2014, 20:34
When does one buy these Gotham cables?
When one is ready James, when one is ready... :D
Kevin, I'm not sure if I've misunderstood, but the Gotham City cable is free delivery:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=628349484687&afsrc=1
It's hand delivered by a chap in a scarecrow mask...
If it's of any interest, the cables that this comic book Marvel has replaced for me is NVA SSP, which will soon be going up for sale.
For all of £40 that it cost to full loom the system it's the best impulse buy for a long time.
Unless you happen to live outside of the UK. :ner:
And how do they compare to Van Damme Black Ultra?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Black-Ultra-1-Metre-Pair-interconnect-Cables-RCA-To-RCA-Phono-NEW-/380897354418
Figlet108
03-05-2014, 20:38
Ah, Toulouse. Good point, well presented.
Lol - I meant where does one buy one from!
Stratmangler
03-05-2014, 20:54
As posted by Marco http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3803165476...84.m1439.l2649
The good friend I mentioned heard the Gothams in his own system, and is going to be ordering a couple of sets - he couldn't believe what he was hearing from his system.
It did sound rather good, I must admit :)
:eyebrows: :eyebrows: What have I started? :D
Marco.
As posted by Marco http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3803165476...84.m1439.l2649
That link's not working for me, Chris. Try this one, folks: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665
Marco.
The Van Damme looks quite interesting as well. ;)
Stratmangler
03-05-2014, 21:13
That link's not working for me, Chris. Try this one, folks: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665
Marco.
It worked this afternoon :doh:
And how do they compare to Van Damme Black Ultra?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-Black-Ultra-1-Metre-Pair-interconnect-Cables-RCA-To-RCA-Phono-NEW-/380897354418
The Van Dammes are most probably just as good, Kevin, as they are of a similar pedigree. I haven't heard them, though :)
One of the problems I often find with 'audiophile-type' cables is that designs tend to be over-complicated... I believe that sometimes you can overuse 'exotic materials', which is not something one can levy at 'studio quality' examples ;)
Marco.
cyclopse
04-05-2014, 09:37
Can anyone describe the treble performance of the Gothams. Looking at the historical Wigwam thread users were describing limited treble.
Thanks
Stephen
Can anyone describe the treble performance of the Gothams. Looking at the historical Wigwam thread users were describing limited treble.
Thanks
Stephen
Treble is clean and detailed but certainly not bright. Fairly neutral if I was evaluating it in the spectrum of all the cables I have heard recently.
Can anyone describe the treble performance of the Gothams. Looking at the historical Wigwam thread users were describing limited treble.
Hi Stephen,
From that I can only conclude that those making such comments were previously using bright sounding cables as a form of 'tone control', and so when experiencing the neutral sonic characteristics of the Gothams, perceived them (in comparison) as 'dull'.
Let me assure you that in a neutral sounding, well-sorted system, the Gothams are far from dull sounding, and nor do they exhibit limited treble. Like I said before, they have the least intrinsic 'sound' I've heard from any cables I've used, which for me is what it's all about.
Cables should never be used as tone controls - they should simply be the links from piece of equipment to another, and in the process alter the sound as little as possible. In that respect, the 'best' cable is the one you can 'hear' the least.
When folk go on about cables having 'great bass' or 'extended highs', it always makes me laugh, as such comments usually say more about the balance of their systems or sonic preferences, than the cables themselves - or indeed any notion of achieving genuine high-resolution or neutrality, when reproducing recorded music using their chosen components, which is what high-fidelity sound is supposed to be all about!! ;)
Marco.
When folk go on about cables having 'great bass' or 'extended highs', it always makes me laugh, as such comments usually say more about the balance of their systems or sonic preferences, than the cables themselves - or indeed any notion of achieving genuine high-resolution or neutrality, when reproducing recorded music using their chosen components, which is what high-fidelity sound is supposed to be all about!! ;)
Marco.
That almost sounds like an objectivist position Marco - have you finally seen the light? You will be preferring digital to vinyl next! Still, there is more room in heaven for one sinner who has repented... ;)
That almost sounds like an objectivist position Marco - have you finally seen the light? You will be preferring digital to vinyl next! Still, there is more room in heaven for one sinner who has repented... ;)
:lol: I'm saying nothing! ;)
I managed to sort out what causing the harsh sound with the Gothams in my system (seems my external HD cable was the cause on the digital side) Cable is now sounding very balanced in my system
That almost sounds like an objectivist position Marco - have you finally seen the light? You will be preferring digital to vinyl next! Still, there is more room in heaven for one sinner who has repented... ;)
Hehehehe... It's got bugger all to do with obj/subj bollocks - achieving neutrality/realism with a hi-fi system, from the replay of recorded music, has always been my goal :)
Marco.
I managed to sort out what causing the harsh sound with the Gothams in my system (seems my external HD cable was the cause on the digital side) Cable is now sounding very balanced in my system
Nice one, John. Revealing (hitherto undiscovered) system deficiencies is a sign of the Gotham's inherently transparent nature :cool:
Marco.
The Black Adder
04-05-2014, 13:10
+1 Marco.
In a properly sorted system that's been put together to reproduce a balanced sound signature (just like in the studio) the Gothams excel. Much like the MG cables they bring the music together without sounding harsh or with any OTT emphasis. Studios use them for a no nonsense sound, reliability and durability.
I've no doubt that the Furutech plugs on these would be superb too.
Best thing to do is lay out £40 on two cables (bewteen source and between pre to amp) and give them a whirl and forget what's said on Wigwam.
wee tee cee
04-05-2014, 15:15
I ordered a Y splitter from them quite a while back... They are very well made. I was very happy with it.Good to know, Joe. It isn't the pro construction but will let me try the planned set up.
Well I've ordered a set of Gotham Ultra-Pro so will hear for myself what the fuss is about. In the past, a friend bought some Blue Jeans LC-1 cables and I tried those -they didn't stay with me long. I also tried another super bargain recommended to me by a fellow forum contributor - I really didn't rate them at all. So, we shall see - otherwise observe the classifieds for a barely used interconnect bargain ;).
But wasn't it only very recently that the buzz was all about Yannis Tome cables - super pure solid silver cable in air dialectic and Teflon, fitted with carbon fibre wrapped plugs etc? Now the pendulum has swung back to 'old fashioned' copper multi-strand fitted with gold plated brass plugs...
The Gotham Ultra-Pro is interesting though - very heavily shielded (probably the most heavily shielded audio cable I've ever seen)
http://www.gotham.ch/images/content/gotham_kabel/hiend/11301.jpg
The Gotham Ultra-Pro is interesting though - very heavily shielded (probably the most heavily shielded audio cable I've ever seen)
http://www.gotham.ch/images/content/gotham_kabel/hiend/11301.jpg
That is not the same Gotham Ultra-Pro cable that Marco is enthusing about. The "GAC-1 Ultra-Pro" is a single core cable, with two semiconducting layers to eliminate triboelectric 'handling' noises.
Ah - shame - will look again
https://www.onstagesolutions.biz/image/cache/data/Gotham/OSS%20GOTHAM%20GAC-1%20UP%20AD-500x500.jpg
So it's this one (above) - looks like any number of other coax construct cables.
https://www.onstagesolutions.biz/image/cache/data/Gotham/OSS%20GOTHAM%20GAC-1%20UP%20AD-500x500.jpg
So it's this one (above) - looks like any number of other coax construct cables.
It's the only cable I know of that has two semiconducting layers (shown as 5 and 6 in the figure above). There are many 'low-noise' coaxial cables that possess a single semiconducting layer. These are readily available from RS, Maplin and from the Swiss company Huber & Suhner.
Twin layers of Mylar wrap around the centre conductor?
The Gotham GAC-t Ultra Pro cable (10018) both Marco and I have in mind is this:
http://www.gotham.ch/en/index.php?section=docsys&cmd=23_details&id=251
The inner semiconducting layer is probably bonded to the dielectric insulation, so it will easily peel away from the centre conductor.
Yeah, that's the same as the second one I linked to.
Lol... We can go round in circles discussing their construction. The bottom line is, the Gothams sound excellent (and evidently not just in my system either).
Marco.
cyclopse
04-05-2014, 20:46
Think I will try some then between tuner and pre. I think this must be the most heavy duty screening I have ever seen. Enough to keep out those RF nasties.
Regards
Stephen
Ninanina
04-05-2014, 21:19
Can someone tell me exactly how much a 1m length is of this cable?
Thanks so much
twickers
04-05-2014, 21:24
Can someone tell me exactly how much a 1m length is of this cable?
Thanks so much
Here you go:CABLE (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=627252172838&afsrc=1)
cyclopse
04-05-2014, 21:24
Can someone tell me exactly how much a 1m length is of this cable?
Thanks so much
£20.50 which includes free postage.
Ninanina
04-05-2014, 21:32
As cheap as chips...!!
Ninanina
04-05-2014, 21:59
It seems that some are saying these Gotham cables are superb, but they cost so little.... how can that be? :scratch::scratch:
walpurgis
04-05-2014, 22:03
You can also rustle up some rather decent sounding interconnects for very little money using Van Damme cable. £20 to £30 should do it.
cyclopse
04-05-2014, 22:10
It seems that some are saying these Gotham cables are superb, but they cost so little.... how can that be? :scratch::scratch:
Audition them with an open mind and leave those marketing prejudices behind.
jandl100
04-05-2014, 22:18
It seems that some are saying these Gotham cables are superb, but they cost so little.... how can that be? :scratch::scratch:
Sometimes cost doesn't have anything to do with effectiveness, Bev. As a general rule, it's better to listen with your ears rather than with your wallet. ;)
And yes, they are very good - you can pay a LOT more and get just a little extra in terms of sound quality, imo. ... and all too often you get a lot less!
Of course, that little extra can be important.
Ninanina
04-05-2014, 22:24
Sometimes cost doesn't have anything to do with effectiveness, Bev. As a general rule, it's better to listen with your ears rather than with your wallet. ;)
and yes, they are very good - you can pay a LOT more and get very little extra in terms of sound quality, imo. ... and all too often you get a lot less!
I totally agree Jerry
The best value I have ever had in all my hifi years were a set of CAT5e speaker cables that I made, I thought they were superb.... took quite a bit of building and plaiting but was good fun to make and it sounded very good indeed... it probably cost me about a fiver as I bought a bulk box of CAT5e for next to nothing :D
The Grand Wazoo
04-05-2014, 23:09
It seems that some are saying these Gotham cables are superb, but they cost so little.... how can that be? :scratch::scratch:
You're looking down the wrong end of the telescope Bev.
Turn your question around!
jandl100
04-05-2014, 23:15
You're looking down the wrong end of the telescope Bev.
Turn your question around!
:eyebrows:
Ninanina
04-05-2014, 23:19
Turned around it reads:
be that can how....little so cost they but, superb are cables Gotham these saying are some that seems It
:lol::lol::lol:
The Grand Wazoo
04-05-2014, 23:20
Yep, that'll be it!
No, it needs to be in Latin.
Marco.
Ninanina
04-05-2014, 23:24
No, it needs to be in Latin.
Marco.
Latin it is:
quod esse non potest, quam ut pecunia .... parva sunt, sed sunt quidam, qui dixerunt quod hoc illis eximius es funes Gotham
:scratch:
Ninanina
04-05-2014, 23:28
Actually that Latin doesn't kinda read quite right.... :doh::doh:
It makes sense when read under the influence of the right type of alcohol :D
Marco.
A/ the cost of this cable is not a Vatican secret - 20 seconds of Google action will tell you - alternatively you could just click on one of the numerous links provided in this thread!
B/ yes we could debate cable construction and it's effects or we could do what exactly? Presumably participate in pointless subjective debate (although there can be no genuine debate as there is no content other than personal opinion). There is no discussion if it doesn't try to relate the construction (the objective) to the subjective - otherwise it's just an opinion/ego driven pissing competition!
...or it could just be a bunch of hi-fi enthusiasts/music lovers selflessly relating their subjective experiences to other members for the potential benefit of said other members. Why does ego or pissing competitions automatically have to come into it?
Marco.
If you can't see it Marco I can't explain it.
Well I don't see any input on this thread other than that which I described in my last post. Certainly my own motivation for recommending the Gothams lies entirely in what I've just outlined.
It's a simple and painless process: you try something (e.g. some cables), recommend them to others in the hope that they might also like them. They then try them, and if they like them as much as you do, the job's a good 'un!
That's ultimately what matters (achieving the greatest musical satisfaction from one's hi-fi system - and using yer lugs to get there), not what's inside stuff, unless you're a builder. The Gothams could be stuffed full of solidified monkey piss, for all I care. It's the fact that they sound superb which is the most important thing.
I guess it just depends on how your mind works :)
Marco.
Latin it is:
quod esse non potest, quam ut pecunia .... parva sunt, sed sunt quidam, qui dixerunt quod hoc illis eximius es funes Gotham
:scratch:
“It seems that some are saying these Gotham cables are superb, but they cost so little.... how can that be?”
Videtur quod aliqui dicuntur: detrito Gotham eximius, quomodo erit verum sumptus .... tam parum?
jandl100
05-05-2014, 06:42
The Gothams could be stuffed full of solidified monkey piss, for all I care. It's the fact that they sound superb which is the most important thing.
I guess it just depends on how your mind works :)
Marco.
Err.
That could get a bit smelly.
I'm with Marco - it's the sound that matters.
OK, I've done a lot of comparative listening now - they are very good but I've heard and own cables that I prefer to the Gotham Ultra Pros (GUP).
To my ears, and in my system, I think there's a layer of resolution that they miss out on. (Crimping the RCA plugs for a tighter fit helped a lot, which surprised me, but didn't fully close the sonic gap).
In fact, I would go so far as to hazard that that is one of the reasons the Goth Ultra Pros sound so good; the main events in the music stand out just a little bit more due to the relative lack of very low level ambient information, giving a more vivid presentation. (My MBL speakers are particularly good at conveying ambient info). I've heard the same with some amps - Quad 606 comes to mind especially - my first reaction is "WOW what focus and presence", but over the next few hours I realise that low level ambient information is a bit lacking giving a less involving and less satisfying performance. It kind of constricts the 3D-ness of the presentation as well, conveying a less realistic 'visual' effect.
Treble rez is good but is slightly on the smooth side, just a tad rolled off, I suspect - making a wide range of recordings just that little bit easier on the ear. This is just a slight but noticeable effect.
My cable references for this are ...
Epiphany Acoustics Atratus mk 2 (prototype)
XLO Reference
RFC Pluto2
All of which extract just that crucial bit more musical information than the GUPs, imo. My preference being in the order given, although I can imagine those of a more laidback disposition preferring the XLO Ref to the RFC Pluto2 - a little rez and transparency is lost but they are a bit warmer and more forgiving.
But I have heard far more expensive cables sound nowhere near as good as the GUPs.
Also, while I no longer have the older Gotham GAC-1 cables to directly compare, I have a feeling that the Ultra Pros don't quite convey the amazing bass control, definition and sheer slam that made that cable a particular standout for me. But the bass is still excellent and, more than making amends, the Ultra Pro lack the tonal greyness and slight midrange graininess that marred the performance of the plain GAC-1.
Undoubtedly a very good cable regardless of price, the GUP commits no crimes of commission, just some slight ones of omission.
All of the above, of course, is imo. ymmv. :)
--- oh, and I collect my RFC Mercury Mk2 tomorrow. That could be interesting.
Interesting stuff, Jerry, and thanks for sharing your thoughts :)
It goes back to the undisputable fact that cable effects are very system dependent. In my system, I can hear all of the positives you mention with the Gothams, but none of the negatives, especially, try as I might, any lack of resolution.
If anything in my system, the Gothams reveal more musical information, and provide a greater insight into recordings, than any other cables I've used to date. Tonally, they are very neutral, with no emphasis (or de-emphasis) of any area of the frequency range. Quite frankly, they've been a revelation.
I guess one thing we can fully agree on is that for a mere £20 the Gotham GAC-1 Ultra Pros are stupidly good, outperforming some much more expensive interconnects, and as such are likely to find their way into many systems where their strengths suit the sonic characteristics of those systems, and where users seek to gain maximum SPPV from their cable choices.
I'll let folks know in due course if upgrading the stock plugs, for something more 'exotic', moves the performance of the Gothams onto another level. I may even send you a pair, suitably modified, to listen to! :cool:
Marco.
jandl100
05-05-2014, 07:38
Yep, I agree Marco.
I'd be interested to find what you think about my own cable preferences -- I could loan you some to try out, just for the week after this one, say. You interested?
The XLO are very short, just 37cm tip to tip, the Atratus2 are 50cm and the RFC are 1m.
Yep, I agree Marco.
I'd be interested to find what you think about my own cable preferences -- I could loan you some to try out, just for the week after this one, say. You interested?
We can possibly do that at some point. However, at the moment I don't want to introduce any more variables into the equation while I get a proper handle on what the Gothams are doing :)
The other thing is, (although as a box-swapper this thought will be alien to you, lol), at some point you have to stop and simply enjoy what you have, as there are always going to be better cables out there, just the same as there will always exist better equipment or speakers.
For me, the Gothams are as near to 'fit and forget' as any other sorted parts of my system, so plug experiments aside, it's time to sit back and just enjoy the music!
Marco.
jandl100
05-05-2014, 07:57
We can possibly do that at some point. However, at the moment I don't want to introduce any more variables into the equation while I get a proper handle on what the Gothams are doing :)
The other thing is, (although as a box-swapper this thought will be alien to you, lol), at some point you have to stop and simply enjoy what you have, as there are always going to be better cables out there, just the same as there will always exist better equipment or speakers.
For me, the Gothams are as near to 'fit and forget' as any other sorted parts of my system, so plug experiments aside, it's time to sit back and just enjoy the music!
Marco.
Okey-dokey.
I have no problem enjoying music as the box-swapping progresses. Two mainly independent things for me. As you said to Nat ...
I guess it depends on how your mind works :)
And yes the boxswapper's credo is "there is always something better, or at least interestingly different".
Oh, and I've just seen your post edit about replugging the GUPs and a loaner of same ... :thumbsup:
I have no problem enjoying music as the box-swapping progresses. Two mainly independent things for me. As you said to Nat ...
Oh, I know that, dude. Incidentally, I made the point about how your mind works to Mark, not Nat ;)
Marco.
icehockeyboy
05-05-2014, 11:29
Here you go:CABLE (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380316547665?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=627252172838&afsrc=1)
According to eBay stats, 6 people have bought these in the last 24 hours.
Pound to a penny they are all from here!
PS, to save me trawling back thru pages of posts, did someone say these were probably very similar to the similarly priced Van Damme ic"s?
Stratmangler
05-05-2014, 11:40
Here you go Craig
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31750-I-m-Thinking-of-a-couple-of-new-interconnects&p=547907#post547907
icehockeyboy
05-05-2014, 11:50
Here you go Craig
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31750-I-m-Thinking-of-a-couple-of-new-interconnects&p=547907#post547907
Cheers Chris!
However, it's the lighter coloured VD's that I was referring to, the ones more latterly mentioned with the pic. :)
Actually that Latin doesn't kinda read quite right.... :doh::doh:
;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8
Stratmangler
05-05-2014, 11:52
Cheers Chris!
However, it's the lighter coloured VD's that I was referring to, the ones more latterly mentioned with the pic. :)
You'd better get trawling then :lol:
icehockeyboy
05-05-2014, 11:55
You'd better get trawling then :lol:
I did....couldn't find them.
Then I realised they were in my thread ' Silver Series'! :doh:
Stratmangler
05-05-2014, 11:58
I did....couldn't find them.
Then I realised they were in my thread ' Silver Series'! :doh:
:rfl:
Cheers Chris!
However, it's the lighter coloured VD's that I was referring to, the ones more latterly mentioned with the pic. :)
Do you mean the cream coloured ones I bought, Craig?
Marco.
Soz, just seen your last post! :D
Marco.
icehockeyboy
05-05-2014, 12:50
Do you mean the cream coloured ones I bought, Craig?
Marco.
Yes, the ones I'm using currently.
How are you finding them? :)
Marco.
icehockeyboy
05-05-2014, 13:09
How are you finding them? :)
Marco.
Surprisingly good!
I think it was Effem that warned of them being less than detailed, paraphrasing here, but they're anything but.
All frequencies sound good, but I'd still love to hear about the Silver Series!
Surprisingly good!
I think it was Effem that warned of them being less than detailed, paraphrasing here, but they're anything but.
All frequencies sound good, but I'd still love to hear about the Silver Series!
Wasn't me Craig
cyclopse
05-05-2014, 16:56
Because there are reports that pinching the rcas' has a positive effect I wonder what an audiophile RCA would bring to the party?
Thanks
Stephen
Stratmangler
05-05-2014, 17:45
I wonder what an audiophile RCA would bring to the party?
Heavy price tag? :eyebrows:
It will be interesting to find out how much difference a plug makes.
I guess the equipment side will also need upgrading to something decent to maximise the benefit.
Bit of an elephant in the room moment here Marco, but are you saying that the Gothams are a match for the Mark Grant's that you regarded so highly?
If that is the case, perhaps I too should indulge my curiosity with a look the GAC Pro's :eyebrows:
We can possibly do that at some point. However, at the moment I don't want to introduce any more variables into the equation while I get a proper handle on what the Gothams are doing :)
The other thing is, (although as a box-swapper this thought will be alien to you, lol), at some point you have to stop and simply enjoy what you have, as there are always going to be better cables out there, just the same as there will always exist better equipment or speakers.
For me, the Gothams are as near to 'fit and forget' as any other sorted parts of my system, so plug experiments aside, it's time to sit back and just enjoy the music!
Marco.
Bit of an elephant in the room moment here Marco, but are you saying that the Gothams are a match for the Mark Grant's that you regarded so highly?
If that is the case, perhaps I too should indulge my curiosity with a look the GAC Pro's :eyebrows:
Salted or sweet Tarzan? :popcorn:
cyclopse
05-05-2014, 20:02
Here are some comments I found from 2008 on another forum;-
'but I found the Gotham a little dull.'
'Glad it wasn't just me who thought the Gotham was dull and utterly lifeless'
I hope the latest incarnation is a little better.
twickers
05-05-2014, 20:13
Because there are reports that pinching the rcas' has a positive effect I wonder what an audiophile RCA would bring to the party?
Thanks
Stephen
I believe someone is already planning on doing this. :eyebrows:
Lol... It's liable to do so even more when I upgrade the stock plugs used on the Gothams for a set of these chaps:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/842/15v6.jpg
Shown fitted to some thinn-ish cables of a similar diameter to the Gotham:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/845/zu0o.jpg
...and the finished cables will still come in at less than £200 a pair! ;)
Marco.
icehockeyboy
05-05-2014, 21:03
Wasn't me Craig
Sorry Frank!
I'm now thinking it was Jerry then?
These are two folk who I believe have a similar taste in how they like their stuff to sound as me. :)
Because there are reports that pinching the rcas' has a positive effect I wonder what an audiophile RCA would bring to the party?
Stephen
I have wondered about this before - I would have thought that cheap brass RCAs (at least the + pin and - return) would significantly degrade the signal, but it does not seem to make much difference.
Here are some comments I found from 2008 on another forum;-
'but I found the Gotham a little dull.'
'Glad it wasn't just me who thought the Gotham was dull and utterly lifeless'
Thoe must've been different Gotham cables then, Stephen (after all, they do make a few different types). Either that, or the systems belonging to those folk were f*cked......
You may not think that the GAC-1 Ultra Pros are the best cables you've heard, but "dull and utterly lifeless" they most certainly aren't!! :nono:
Quite frankly, the notion is ridiculous.
Marco.
The Barbarian
05-05-2014, 21:31
I'll wait in the wings for your thoughts Marco, i need to do summert with this tonearm Cable the digitally Re-mastered LP's i have are burning holes in my ear drums via headphones, certainly aint the cartridge nor the phones..
:eek:
Bit of an elephant in the room moment here Marco, but are you saying that the Gothams are a match for the Mark Grant's that you regarded so highly?
If that is the case, perhaps I too should indulge my curiosity with a look the GAC Pro's :eyebrows:
Hi Frank,
Why not? I'm sure you've pissed more than £20 up against the wall on many a Saturday night! :D
In terms of the Mark Grants, both those and the Gothams are superb examples of SPPV at it best, and would show up many more expensive cables as being no more than average. However, in my system, I can hear something special in the Gothams, which I'm hopeful with the fitting of the Furutech plugs, will become fully realised :cool:
Marco.
icehockeyboy
06-05-2014, 09:34
I already have the Van Dammes described elsewhere, would I be wasting my dosh buying a set of these Gotham jobbies, bearing in mind a consensus that there's not much to choose between them?
I guess the question is can you afford £20 to find out? If you wait until Wednesday, when hopefully I'll be taking delivery of a set of the Van Dammes you're currently using, then I'll tell you whether I think the Gothams are any better or worse! :)
Marco.
Hi Frank,
Why not? I'm sure that you've pissed more than £20 up against the wall on many a Saturday night! :D
In terms of the Mark Grants, both those and the Gothams are superb examples of SPPV at it best, and would show up many more expensive cables as being no more than average. However, in my system, I can hear something special in the Gothams, which I'm hopeful with the fitting of the Furutech plugs, will become fully realised :cool:
Marco.
Well if you put it that way Marco I can't see why not :lol:
Excuse me though if I don't follow in your footsteps with the addition of the Furutechs, because I can do a LOT more "wall pissing" for that amount of money :eyebrows:
icehockeyboy
06-05-2014, 09:46
I guess the question is can you afford £20 to find out? If you wait until Wednesday, when hopefully I'll be taking delivery of a set of the Van Dammes you're currently using, then I'll tell you whether I think the Gothams are any better or worse! :)
Marco.
Wait?
Wait??????
We are audio fools, don't be silly, of course I can't wait!!!!
Joking aside, yes I will wait, and I know £20 is not a lot of money, but my accountant is hassling me for a grand, and the first service is due on my German motor car, won't say what make, but it'll be as much as buying a small used Skoda!
Excuse me though if I don't follow in your footsteps with the addition of the Furutechs, because I can do a LOT more "wall pissing" for that amount of money :eyebrows:
Lol, Frank - no worries. The reason I'm going down the 'fancy plugs' route is:
a) because I've had great success before doing it with high-quality cables, where as a result, performance has been elevated to a significantly higher level.
This was most notably the case with my Yannis tonearm cable, where the effect of upgrading the existing generic DIN plug for a Furutech CF-DIN(R), was a revelation. Therefore, I'm hopeful that the Furutech CF-126 RCAs (which I've now decided to use) will produce a similar result, used in conjunction with the excellent Gotham cable itself.
b) The exercise for me was not to obtain a budget 'super cable' for £20, but to create (with the help of some 'fancy plugs'), a pair of interconnects, at a final cost of around £200, which could compete with designs far in excess of that price; in effect to obtain maximum SPPV for the maximum price I'm willing to spend on interconnect cables (mains leads are a different story altogether).
It's what I do with cables - and there are numerous examples of it throughout my system - all produced so far to excellent effect. Here's hoping the same will happen with the Gothams, so watch this space! :)
Marco.
pitadavespa
06-05-2014, 10:56
Hi Marco,
Can you please check (I believe those Amphenol plugs sleeves are unscrewable) if both cooper shields connect to the "earth" on the RCA plug?
Thanks,
L
No worries, Luis. When the job's getting done I'll let you know :)
Marco.
pitadavespa
06-05-2014, 13:24
Ok, thanks.
;)
I guess the question is can you afford £20 to find out? If you wait until Wednesday, when hopefully I'll be taking delivery of a set of the Van Dammes you're currently using, then I'll tell you whether I think the Gothams are any better or worse! :)
Marco.
Not just the money, though, is it? IMO spent faffing around with cables is time wasted IMO, especially when differences are subtle, and/or another 'wonder cable' will be along next week/month/year. Get something that works and leave well alone.
I entirely agree (and largely that's what I do), however now and again I find it fun to experiment - especially at this bargain-basement price level :)
Marco.
Techno Commander
06-05-2014, 16:32
the first service is due on my German motor car, won't say what make, but it'll be as much as buying a small used Skoda!
Bring More Wallet?
icehockeyboy
06-05-2014, 17:33
Bring More Wallet?
No.
Mr Hamilton is often seen tootling around in one.
Mainly on Sundays......... :)
Techno Commander
06-05-2014, 18:07
Ahh, a much better choice. :)
pitadavespa
06-05-2014, 19:52
No worries, Luis. When the job's getting done I'll let you know :)
Marco.
Marco, I received some information confirming both shields are in contact with each other, so, they are also both connected to the plug.
Thanks,
L
wee tee cee
07-05-2014, 11:25
Plumbed the Gotham pro between the pre and dac. It didn't do anything sonically untoward but robbed the sound of all its dynamics-flat as a pancake in my set up. Put the Mark Grant wbt cu back in it was instantly better right across the board. May well be a system synergy thing. They sound a bit closer to the MG eichman silver bullets but still not in the same league sonically. Any of the Scottish troops want to give them a whirl PM me and I can send them across.
Mine should be with me tomorrow so will see (hear) then. If I like it I will be happy to use it - if I don't it will be straight on the classifieds as I don't need another spare RCA cable; thoughts to follow.
brian2957
07-05-2014, 12:23
Just put a pair into my system this very minute . I will give them give them some burn in time before making any comment.
icehockeyboy
07-05-2014, 12:35
Just put a pair into my system this very minute . I will give them give them some burn in time before making any comment.
Nah!!!!
Tell us your immediate thoughts!!!!!! :)
brian2957
07-05-2014, 13:17
Can't turn my system up Craig as my daughter is in the room studying for uni exams . Got to think of others occasionally mate :)
It's good to get some more feedback on the Gothams, positive and negative, as otherwise it simply looks like everyone's joining a bandwagon.
Once again Tony's experience highlights how system dependent the effects of cables are!! :eek:
Anyway, passing around some test samples amongst local members is a great idea, as it will allow as many people as possible to get a handle on what the Gothams do in their system :)
Marco.
P.S To those using these cables, please crimp the ends of the Amphenol plugs, if necessary, to ensure that they make a nice tight fit with equipment sockets, as that makes a big difference to the results obtained (and also that directionality is correctly observed, using the arrows provided).
I have had mine in for a week now so should be as good as they are going to get - in standard form!
I still think they lack the air and transparency of my current IC, this is probably due to the shielding.
My current IC is Not shielded so probably pics up a bit of RFI but I prefer the more open airy sound they convey.
My other half noticed immediately the difference. She felt the Gothams shut the sound in a bit and presented a flatter soundstage.
However the Gothams are good on detail even though they sound a tad flat.
I used the cable between my pre and power amps and in my system they never achieved the same amount of life and vitality of my current cable.
icehockeyboy
07-05-2014, 14:26
Can't turn my system up Craig as my daughter is in the room studying for uni exams . Got to think of others occasionally mate :)
Been there! :)
...in my system they never achieved the same amount of life and vitality of my current cable.
Looking at your signature that would be a Chord interconnect - but may I ask which one (they do make quite a few :))?
wee tee cee
07-05-2014, 16:34
Spoke to Brian today he has encouraged me to try re- plugging them. My soldering skills are woeful but ive got to start somewhere. The Y plugs are excellent though, letting me run two mini Ts into the statics.
kininigin
07-05-2014, 17:02
Mine have turned up today! I will put them between pre and dac and compare them to the (what are probably the standard) Gac_1 with Neutrik plugs!
The Black Adder
07-05-2014, 17:10
Sometimes the sound can seem flat but give them a good listen to if you have been used to another type for a long time. When I came from my Chord Cobra's to the Gothams I found the same but after a while I found that the sound was more correct with nothing added which is what I like.
Change the plugs by all means though... :)
Looking at your signature that would be a Chord interconnect - but may I ask which one (they do make quite a few :))?
Hi Mark,
I use the Chord Chameleon VEE 3 between TT and Pre. I used the Gotham Ultra Pro between pre and power, replacing another cable which I do not know the origin or manufacture of. However it is very good even though it is unscreened.
pitadavespa
07-05-2014, 17:14
Sometimes the sound can seem flat but give them a good listen to if you have been used to another type for a long time. When I came from my Chord Cobra's to the Gothams I found the same but after a while I found that the sound was more correct with nothing added which is what I like.
Change the plugs by all means though... :)
Joe,
What plugs do you recommend?
cyclopse
07-05-2014, 18:10
More Gotham arrived here too;-
http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh538/cyclopse14/Gotham.jpg
Two pairs, one for home cinema and the other for audio.Doesn't sound dull here. Clearer sound than the Mark Grant it replaces. Nice sweet treble too not rolled off. The KEF LS50 likes them.
If they continue like this when they are run in they will be keepers.
Regards
Stephen
Run in.... now that is a can of worms!
icehockeyboy
07-05-2014, 20:02
More Gotham arrived here too;-
http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh538/cyclopse14/Gotham.jpg
Two pairs, one for home cinema and the other for audio.Doesn't sound dull here. Clearer sound than the Mark Grant it replaces. Nice sweet treble too not rolled off. The KEF LS50 likes them.
If they continue like this when they are run in they will be keepers.
Regards
Stephen
What model Mark Grants do you have?
cyclopse
07-05-2014, 20:17
What model Mark Grants do you have?
Its an early one and has Canare 75ohm coaxial LV-61S printed on the insulation.
Run in.... now that is a can of worms!
Or a pile of shite. What actually happens is that your ears adjust to a 'different' sound over time, usually just long enough to exceed the 'returm within 30 days' deadline, so you essentially have to convince yourself that what you bought was worth bothering with.
icehockeyboy
07-05-2014, 22:01
Or a pile of shite. What actually happens is that your ears adjust to a 'different' sound over time, usually just long enough to exceed the 'returm within 30 days' deadline, so you essentially have to convince yourself that what you bought was worth bothering with.
Interesting theory that.
I have to admit 95% of the time. When I have a new piece of kit, wire, or hardware, I find I love how it sounds straight off, but then after a while begin to either get bored of it, or used to it, not sure which.
But either way makes me start thinking about other stuff.
When I came from my Chord Cobra's to the Gothams I found the same but after a while I found that the sound was more correct with nothing added which is what I like.
I do agree. However, it's a matter of ascertaining whose version of "more correct" is most correct, as it were. "Nothing added" (or, more realistically, as little added or subtracted as possible), is the very definition of the function of good interconnect cables, which is precisely what I'm hearing in my system with the Gothams.
Chord interconnects, and I've used many of them over the years, tend to superimpose a false 'sheen' onto the music, and have an inherently bright tone, the combination of which some may perceive as 'detailed'.
It's therefore difficult not to conclude that those who've declared the Gothams as 'dull' or 'flat sounding' are missing the artificial treble boost provided by cables that act more as a form of tone control, than simply a conduit linking one component to another, which imposes as little of its 'sonic signature' onto proceedings as possible.
Marco.
twickers
07-05-2014, 22:13
Or a pile of shite. What actually happens is that your ears adjust to a 'different' sound over time, usually just long enough to exceed the 'returm within 30 days' deadline, so you essentially have to convince yourself that what you bought was worth bothering with.
Or burn-in is real, but only 'certain' people can hear the difference.:brickwall:
I find I come to a conclusion reasonably quickly and that the sound of the component remains exactly the same both during and after that process.
walpurgis
07-05-2014, 22:47
Or a pile of shite. What actually happens is that your ears adjust to a 'different' sound over time, usually just long enough to exceed the 'returm within 30 days' deadline, so you essentially have to convince yourself that what you bought was worth bothering with.
I agree. There is an adjustment period, where not necessarily the component burns in but one's ear adjusts. I notice this with every change, be it something new or an item I've had for a while that I reintroduce into the system. I just call it 'tuning into' the item.
Revisiting cables is interesting, your system may have changed and then you try a cable that initially did not impress and find it now works! I've found Cardas and Audio Note cables are very subtle and did not necessarily impress on first visit, but eventually they prove themselves. I do vary my cable choices a lot though, depending on the system line up.
With all this talk of cables I tried a quick interconnect swop yesterday. I changed over to the one that had previously left me cold and..... I still didn't think a lot of it :) - I then returned to listening to some music.
I have to admit 95% of the time. When I have a new piece of kit, wire, or hardware, I find I love how it sounds straight off, but then after a while begin to either get bored of it, or used to it, not sure which.
But either way makes me start thinking about other stuff.
...and unfortunately there leads the road to never-ending tinkering/box-swapping, and continual system dissatisfaction, (unless you have the mindset of someone like Jerry, who enjoys the box-swapping process).
Marco.
I agree. There is an adjustment period, where not necessarily the component burns in but one's ear adjusts. I notice this with every change, be it something new or an item I've had for a while that I reintroduce into the system. I just call it 'tuning into' the item.
Revisiting cables is interesting, your system may have changed and then you try a cable that initially did not impress and find it now works! I've found Cardas and Audio Note cables are very subtle and did not necessarily impress on first visit, but eventually they prove themselves. I do vary my cable choices a lot though, depending on the system line up.
I agree with a lot of what you have said here Geoff. As we all use very different combinations of components and equipment there will be an infinite amount of variability regarding ancillary equipment especially cables. They are very system dependant - what works for one person may not for another.
I have found that screened cables do not always work best in my system in certain positions. It makes me wonder if I should investigate this further swapping each cable out and trying different combinations of screened and unscreened cable.
The Black Adder
08-05-2014, 08:48
I do agree. However, it's a matter of ascertaining whose version of "more correct" is most correct, as it were. "Nothing added" (or, more realistically, as little added or subtracted as possible), is the very definition of the function of good interconnect cables, which is precisely what I'm hearing in my system with the Gothams.
Chord interconnects, and I've used many of them over the years, tend to superimpose a false 'sheen' onto the music, and have an inherently bright tone, the combination of which some may perceive as 'detailed'.
It's therefore difficult not to conclude that those who've decided that the Gothams are 'dull' or 'flat sounding' are missing the artificial treble boost provided by cables that act more as a form of tone control, than simply a conduit linking one component to another, which imposes as little of its 'sonic signature' onto proceedings as possible.
Marco.
Couldn't agree more.
I don't find the Gothams flat any more but balanced. That 'sheen' you suggested is what got on my nerves to be honest, makes the whole sound seem edgy and brittle which isn't a realistic trait I find in a studio but some people like that, some don't.
That's why I like MG cables, they just let it through with no tone control and no artificial top end emphasis.
The Black Adder
08-05-2014, 08:52
Joe,
What plugs do you recommend?
Hey Luis...
I don't really know matey to be honest but apart from the lovely Furutech ones Marco is going to give a go I'd suggest something like WBT Ag or Cu.
Or maybe the Eichmans but I've not heard those.
Its an early one and has Canare 75ohm coaxial LV-61S printed on the insulation.
This was one of his dirt cheap cables. £25 for a 0.75m pair, and to be honest I preferred the Cambridge Audio Pacific when I did my recent little test.
His G2000 are a different kettle of fish. I am glad that some of you are finding the Gotham cables good, as I have managed to get some nice cables that really suit my solid state amps for a very good price.
Hey Luis...
I don't really know matey to be honest but apart from the lovely Furutech ones Marco is going to give a go I'd suggest something like WBT Ag or Cu.
Or maybe the Eichmans but I've not heard those.
Don't forget, to get the real benefit of a fancy plug, the equipment sockets would also need some attention as well, otherwise you are only doing half a job and won't get the full benefit.
Indeed, which is why all of my kit is fitted either with Furutech, rhodium over solid-copper sockets, or Eichmann varieties of such.
:exactly:
Marco.
How can you say that something 'adds nothing' unless you have a fixed reference to compare it against, i.e. something known absolutely to have nothing added?
Also, although an interconnect can act as a tone control I would say that is a gross aberration and many have very much the same tonal balance. The two I compared last night were pretty much identical in terms of tonality - the difference was that one of the cables had less resolution - less information was passed.
Anyway, I've received my Gotham cable and have promptly unscrewed one of the RCA's (easy to do – they are OK, cheap and cheerful) to have a look at the construction:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/markemark_2006/Hi-Fi/3BC75253-CFDF-44B3-84F6-265284CFA2B2_zpsfq38o33r.jpg (http://s62.photobucket.com/user/markemark_2006/media/Hi-Fi/3BC75253-CFDF-44B3-84F6-265284CFA2B2_zpsfq38o33r.jpg.html)
The soldering is OK, there are a few stray strands and I've seen neater; a dab of hot glue is also used. The construction is that of coax - the centre conductor to the + and the braided shield is the return. There is no separate braided shield connected at one end only, so I'm not sure why they are marked for direction.
I'm working late tonight so probably won't get a chance to listen to them till tomorrow.
Don't forget, to get the real benefit of a fancy plug, the equipment sockets would also need some attention as well, otherwise you are only doing half a job and won't get the full benefit.
I have re-wired all the cable from our fuse box right the way back to the National Grid. No point spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar.
Ali Tait
08-05-2014, 11:03
Nah, much easier to just build your own substation in the garden.
How can you say that something 'adds nothing' unless you have a fixed reference to compare it against, i.e. something known absolutely to have nothing added?
+1 I couldn't agree more. This has been banded around for the past 2 weeks and makes no sense at all.
The Black Adder
08-05-2014, 12:26
Don't forget, to get the real benefit of a fancy plug, the equipment sockets would also need some attention as well, otherwise you are only doing half a job and won't get the full benefit.
Something I'm half way with... lol
I'm ambivalent when it comes to cables and certainly don't need another set of interconnects but I've gone and bought some Gotham's anyway...just to see what the fuss is about. The construction is nothing to write home about as noted above and they don't grip the socket as Marco found, why they have an arrow is anybody's guess :D :lol:
I've tried them between my pre and power amp. I settled on a set of Chord Sirens years ago and never felt the need to enter the cable circus again. Subjectively the Gotham's are tonally different, it's slight, nothing night and day, they seem a little fuller in the mid and detail wise they are fine and certainly not dull as mentioned elsewhere.
Measurement wise they come in at 102pf for 1m vs 72pf for the Sirens, I doubt that makes any difference at all. I may fit them with a set of Neutriks though just to improve the connection.
How can you say that something 'adds nothing' unless you have a fixed reference to compare it against, i.e. something known absolutely to have nothing added?
Indeed. That is why I wrote this earlier:
"Nothing added" (or, more realistically, as little added or subtracted as possible), is the very definition of the function of good interconnect cables...
I'll be interested to know what you think of the Gothams, although I'm not expecting you to prefer them over your current choices ;)
Marco.
But my point is, one can't tell if anything has been "added or subtracted" without a known reference to compare it against and as no absolute reference exists...
Yes, but I'm talking about 'added or subtracted', in the sense of what I consider as representing a 'neutral sound', based on my perception of such (in the same way I'd do when assessing any piece of equipment), and how the Gothams, for example, compare in that respect to my usual reference cables, in order to form my subjective opinion of such.
I do not mean being able to determine what has been added or removed from any aspect of the original recording used to make the cable comparisons I've conducted.
I should add that in 30+ years experience of using hi-fi equipment, I've encountered many cables that have acted as glorified tone controls, and the Gothams aren't one of them.
Marco.
brian2957
08-05-2014, 13:08
Here's my tuppence worth on these cables . Previously I was using Yannis 223.5 from Rega DAC to BTE preamp and NVA Soundcords from BTE to Temple Audio Bantam power amp. I've been burning these cables in for around 20 hours now and I've been listening for an hour or so just now .
Let's get something straight firstly , IMO , these cables are excellent VFM . In my system I hear a very slight loss of dynamics and openness . Treble seemed to me to be a bit subdued , midband is a little fuller giving a more 'powerful ' sound . Bass was clean and full although not as musical as I've come to expect in my system. There was a slight loss in soundstage although as my listening room is only 3m wide I could live with this .
I plugged the Yannis cable back into my system between the Rega DAC and the BTE preamp and the SQ is much more to my liking with a more open and expressive midrange and better treble. Possibly a slight improvement in the SQ I had before with the Gothams fitted between preamp and power amp , so all is not lost :)
There is a possibility that the plugs are indeed holding this cable back a little so I will be fitting these plugs at the weekend http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MS-Audio-Star-Line-Rhodium-Plated-Tellurium-Copper-RCA-Plugs-2-Pair-/301133032447?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=okGDngKvOpbI9%252F%252F2OWyIcvf6zFM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
When I've had more time to listen I will post my findings here .
Thanks for your thoughts, Neal... Interesting :)
However, let's not get too dramatic:
I'm ambivalent when it comes to cables and certainly don't need another set of interconnects but I've gone and bought some Gotham's anyway...just to see what the fuss is about.
Fuss? What 'fuss'?? :D
All I've done is recommended some cheap interconnects, used in recording studios worldwide, for folks to try. Some have done precisely that and enjoyed them, whilst others have found them less of a success - simples.
This ain't no hyped-up 'wonder cable' thread! :nono: ;)
Marco.
P.S Can you remember how much the Chrord Sirens were new?
Here's my tuppence worth on these cables . Previously I was using Yannis 223.5 from Rega DAC to BTE preamp and NVA Soundcords from BTE to Temple Audio Bantam power amp. I've been burning these cables in for around 20 hours now and I've been listening for an hour or so just now .
Let's get something straight firstly , IMO , these cables are excellent VFM . In my system I hear a very slight loss of dynamics and openness . Treble seemed to me to be a bit subdued , midband is a little fuller giving a more 'powerful ' sound . Bass was clean and full although not as musical as I've come to expect in my system. There was a slight loss in soundstage although as my listening room is only 3m wide I could live with this .
I plugged the Yannis cable back into my system between the Rega DAC and the BTE preamp and the SQ is much more to my liking with a more open and expressive midrange and better treble. Possibly a slight improvement in the SQ I had before with the Gothams fitted between preamp and power amp , so all is not lost :)
There is a possibility that the plugs are indeed holding this cable back a little so I will be fitting these plugs at the weekend http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MS-Audio-Star-Line-Rhodium-Plated-Tellurium-Copper-RCA-Plugs-2-Pair-/301133032447?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=okGDngKvOpbI9%252F%252F2OWyIcvf6zFM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
When I've had more time to listen I will post my findings here .
Nice one, Brian. I look forward to that. Incidentally, you didn't order the plugs from that ebay seller in Japan, did you? They're available here in the UK, mate... They should work well, though, on the Gothams :)
Marco.
Thanks for your thoughts, Neal... Interesting :)
However, let's not get too dramatic:
Fuss? What 'fuss'?? :D
All I've done is recommended some cheap interconnects, used in recording studios worldwide, for folks to try. Some have done precisely that and enjoyed them, whilst others have found them less of a success - simples.
This ain't no hyped-up 'wonder cable' thread! :nono: ;)
Marco.
P.S Can you remember how much the Chrord Sirens were new?
Sure, there does seem to be a lot of 'chat' about them though. :D
As far as I recall the Sirens where £80 or so, it was a long time ago mind....
brian2957
08-05-2014, 14:04
Yup , took a while to get here Marco . I'm not sure if these are the same ones . Have you got a link the British seller ?
Here's my tuppence worth on these cables . Previously I was using Yannis 223.5 from Rega DAC to BTE preamp and NVA Soundcords from BTE to Temple Audio Bantam power amp. I've been burning these cables in for around 20 hours now and I've been listening for an hour or so just now .
Let's get something straight firstly , IMO , these cables are excellent VFM . In my system I hear a very slight loss of dynamics and openness . Treble seemed to me to be a bit subdued , midband is a little fuller giving a more 'powerful ' sound . Bass was clean and full although not as musical as I've come to expect in my system. There was a slight loss in soundstage although as my listening room is only 3m wide I could live with this .
I plugged the Yannis cable back into my system between the Rega DAC and the BTE preamp and the SQ is much more to my liking with a more open and expressive midrange and better treble. Possibly a slight improvement in the SQ I had before with the Gothams fitted between preamp and power amp , so all is not lost :)
There is a possibility that the plugs are indeed holding this cable back a little so I will be fitting these plugs at the weekend http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MS-Audio-Star-Line-Rhodium-Plated-Tellurium-Copper-RCA-Plugs-2-Pair-/301133032447?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=okGDngKvOpbI9%252F%252F2OWyIcvf6zFM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
When I've had more time to listen I will post my findings here .
My experience with the Gothams was very similar to yours Brian, Slight loss of dynamics, soundstage and openess. However would be very interested to hear your assessment with different plugs as I may go down this route myself.
brian2957
08-05-2014, 14:20
Cheers James , as I'm working the next couple of days I won't be doing this until the weekend . I will certainly pass on my experience of these cables fitted with different plugs.
wee tee cee
08-05-2014, 15:01
Here's my tuppence worth on these cables . Previously I was using Yannis 223.5 from Rega DAC to BTE preamp and NVA Soundcords from BTE to Temple Audio Bantam power amp. I've been burning these cables in for around 20 hours now and I've been listening for an hour or so just now .
Let's get something straight firstly , IMO , these cables are excellent VFM . In my system I hear a very slight loss of dynamics and openness . Treble seemed to me to be a bit subdued , midband is a little fuller giving a more 'powerful ' sound . Bass was clean and full although not as musical as I've come to expect in my system. There was a slight loss in soundstage although as my listening room is only 3m wide I could live with this .
I plugged the Yannis cable back into my system between the Rega DAC and the BTE preamp and the SQ is much more to my liking with a more open and expressive midrange and better treble. Possibly a slight improvement in the SQ I had before with the Gothams fitted between preamp and power amp , so all is not lost :)
There is a possibility that the plugs are indeed holding this cable back a little so I will be fitting these plugs at the weekend http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MS-Audio-Star-Line-Rhodium-Plated-Tellurium-Copper-RCA-Plugs-2-Pair-/301133032447?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=okGDngKvOpbI9%252F%252F2OWyIcvf6zFM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
When I've had more time to listen I will post my findings here .Brian,
Very concise analysis that sums up what I experienced.I will await your findings on re-plugging them and see if its worth the making some up.
brian2957
08-05-2014, 15:28
Well curiosity got the better of me and I re -terminated the Gothams with these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MS-Audio-Star-Line-Rhodium-Plated-Tellurium-Copper-RCA-Plugs-2-Pair-/301133032447?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=okGDngKvOpbI9%252F%252F2OWyIcvf6zFM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
The Gothams are indeed a simple coax cable with a single inner cable and a single shield made up of very fine copper wire strands ,so I don't understand why signal/cable direction is marked . Although I do mark the direction of all my cables as I iike to replace them as they were after removal ( just in case ) This cable is very easy to work with and re-terminate. :)
Been listening for around 10 minutes or so and differences were immediately apparent . Initial impressions are of an opening up of the sound , more air if you like , while retaining the original character. This is now a very nice cable in my system.
I can confirm that re-terminating these cables with quality plugs is well worth the effort . I'm going to re-terminate the other cable at the weekend and I will post further once this is done. Very happy so far :D
I am still trying to find the logic and common sense in fitting plugs that cost more than ten times the cable itself does :scratch: I doubt if the cable costs more than 30p a metre off the reel which makes it even more absurd still, but WTF do I know about cables anyway?
More surprising is the headlong rush by people who wouldn't even piss on this cable if it were on fire otherwise beforehand, but are buying them now and contemplating fitting similarly expensive plugs :eek:
I was hoping the set of Gothams I had ordered would be here today and rather than ponce about with sooper dooper plugs, I was going to remove the plugs which look pretty naff to be honest and do a direct connection of the bare cable without plugs in my amplifier cable test rig. I can then directly compare the GAC-1 and this latest Pro version, but I strongly suspect they will be keeping each other company together in a drawer for quite some time.
pitadavespa
08-05-2014, 15:50
I'm ambivalent when it comes to cables and certainly don't need another set of interconnects but I've gone and bought some Gotham's anyway...just to see what the fuss is about. The construction is nothing to write home about as noted above and they don't grip the socket as Marco found, why they have an arrow is anybody's guess :D :lol:
I've tried them between my pre and power amp. I settled on a set of Chord Sirens years ago and never felt the need to enter the cable circus again. Subjectively the Gotham's are tonally different, it's slight, nothing night and day, they seem a little fuller in the mid and detail wise they are fine and certainly not dull as mentioned elsewhere.
Measurement wise they come in at 102pf for 1m vs 72pf for the Sirens, I doubt that makes any difference at all. I may fit them with a set of Neutriks though just to improve the connection.
Did you measured them, including the plugs?
Or are you just calculating from the cable's technical specs?
brian2957
08-05-2014, 15:53
Understood Frank , I took a punt on these because of the price and I won't be fitting expensive plugs to them . If you take a look at the link you'll see that the piugs which I fitted weren't particularly expensive. I can only post what I have found , it's up to you whether you take me up on my suggestions or not . :)After the debacle regarding the SLIC cable I now think twice about posting my findings . However I was quite enthusiastic about the improvements which I got by re-terminating the Gothams so I decided to let others know about it . Nothing more nothing less . :)
icehockeyboy
08-05-2014, 15:55
I am still trying to find the logic and common sense in fitting plugs that cost more than ten times the cable itself does :scratch: I doubt if the cable costs more than 30p a metre off the reel which makes it even more absurd still, but WTF do I know about cables anyway?
More surprising is the headlong rush by people who wouldn't even piss on this cable if it were on fire otherwise beforehand, but are buying them now and contemplating fitting similarly expensive plugs :eek:
I was hoping the set of Gothams I had ordered would be here today and rather than ponce about with sooper dooper plugs, I was going to remove the plugs which look pretty naff to be honest and do a direct connection of the bare cable without plugs in my amplifier cable test rig. I can then directly compare the GAC-1 and this latest Pro version, but I strongly suspect they will be keeping each other company together in a drawer for quite some time.
Yeah Frank, what do you know about cables?
It's not as if you used to make them and sell them is it now? :eyebrows:
wee tee cee
08-05-2014, 15:57
Making a silk purse out of a sows ear.....its part of the hobby. I will look forward to hearing the re-terminated cable. All part of the fun.
brian2957
08-05-2014, 16:02
Yup , this cable now costs the princely sum of 32 quid and initial impressions are very favourable . I'll have to bring it along to the next gathering of the clans :eyebrows:
Did you measured them, including the plugs?
Or are you just calculating from the cable's technical specs?
Measured including plugs...
Well I have bought the Gothams for some entertainment value if nothing else :lol:
I am still baffled though how any change of plugs could make a radical improvement along the lines of a silk purse out of a sow's ear sort of scale though. The cable is still a cheap cable with all it's inherent flaws as far as I am concerned and all you are taking out of the equation is what effect the naff plugs are making.
I would be happier with a better cable having cheapo plugs on and THEN investing in better quality ones for sure :eyebrows:
Understood Frank , I took a punt on these because of the price and I won't be fitting expensive plugs to them . If you take a look at the link you'll see that the piugs which I fitted weren't particularly expensive. I can only post what I have found , it's up to you whether you take me up on my suggestions or not . :)After the debacle regarding the SLIC cable I now think twice about posting my findings . However I was quite enthusiastic about the improvements which I got by re-terminating the Gothams so I decided to let others know about it . Nothing more nothing less . :)
Don't get me wrong Brian, I am not in any way knocking what you have done at all, so please don't be offended by my remarks or my opinions and that applies to anyone else who has decided to give the Gothams a go :eyebrows:
wee tee cee
08-05-2014, 16:18
At £20 it was worth a squirt, throw another £12 at it aint too bad IMHO.
brian2957
08-05-2014, 16:22
Don't get me wrong Brian, I am not in any way knocking what you have done at all, so please don't be offended by my remarks or my opinions and that applies to anyone else who has decided to give the Gothams a go :eyebrows:
No offence taken Frank . I don't do taking offence mate :lol: It's just a difference of opinions and all are valid. Anyway I respect your opinion , as always , as a fellow forum member and a former cable manufacturer :)
Edit : I had fitted these plugs to Klotz AC110 cable ( the cable Rega use in their Couple interconnects ) and didn't like it .
For some reason the Gotham responds more positively to plug upgrades .
pitadavespa
08-05-2014, 16:25
Measured including plugs...
Cool, thanks. ;)
icehockeyboy
08-05-2014, 16:27
I'm still waiting for the conclusion on the Gotham V Van Damme comparison. :)
I'm still waiting for the conclusion on the Gotham V Van Damme comparison. :)
Batman vs Kickboxer? :eyebrows:
icehockeyboy
08-05-2014, 18:46
Batman vs Kickboxer? :eyebrows:
:lol:
Hi Frank,
I am still baffled though how any change of plugs could make a radical improvement along the lines of a silk purse out of a sow's ear sort of scale though.
How on did you arrive at that conclusion?
The Gothams are no "sow's ear", certainly in terms of how they perform, sonically. They are extremely capable professional cables, used in recording and broadcasting studios worldwide, which happen to be very keenly priced, largely due to their absence of an 'audiophile badge'...! ;)
They may not be the 'ultimate' cables out there, or even the 'best' ones in the context of your own system, but do you honestly think I'd be using them in a £30k+ system if, intrinsically, they weren't any good?
The cable is still a cheap cable with all it's inherent flaws as far as I am concerned and all you are taking out of the equation is what effect the naff plugs are making.
Since when has price been the ultimate arbiter for anything in audio?
Quite simply, you can't judge the cost of pro-audio equipment or cables on rather fanciful 'audiophile pricing'. If the Gothams were sold by any of major hi-fi cable manufacturers, they'd be priced at rather more than £20, so to all intents and purposes, they are not £20 cables, and therefore can't really be judged on that basis.
I use Van Damme Blue Series Studio Grade 2 x 2.5mm speaker cable, downstairs on the Celestions, at a mere £2.50 per metre, which sounds as good as or better than other speaker cables, with an 'audiophile badge', I've used costing £60 per metre! Therefore, when judging cables, it's folly simply to be fixated by price.
I would be happier with a better cable having cheapo plugs on and THEN investing in better quality ones for sure...
A "better cable" in exactly what way? Also, are you aware of the heritage of Gotham cables? If not, read here: http://hey-wire-cables.myshopify.com/collections/guitar-cables
I would suggest that any company that has, I quote: "close working relationships with companies like Neumann and EMT", and has been going since 1958, wouldn't be producing products that were too shabby.... Furthermore, could the following be why the Gothams sound so good in some systems (note in particular the emboldened text in blue):
Gotham Audio Cables feature the unique "Double Reussen Shielding"; 2 layers of 100% coverage with copper wires on the conductor(s) resulting in superb flexibility, best possible Rf-rejection (up to 130 dB!)
I don't know... What I do know is that, despite their low price (in 'audiophile' terms), in 30+ years of using high-end hi-fi equipment, I've yet to hear a better pair of interconnect cables in my system - and I look forward to further maximising their performance by fitting better plugs, which in reality, is where the real cost-cutting has occurred.
Marco.
I'm still waiting for the conclusion on the Gotham V Van Damme comparison. :)
I've been comparing both at length and will be posting my conclusions soon!
Marco.
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