View Full Version : VFM/SPPV studio cables test
walpurgis
05-12-2014, 13:02
Yes. A capacitor filter makes sense.
But it does act like a Faraday cage to an extent even with the ends open so there is some benefit. A Faraday cage doesn't need to be grounded for it to work.
The operative words being: "to an extent". Screening of electric fields will be good, both for fields axial and normal to the screen. Screening of axial magnetic fields will be also good as the induced currents are circumferential. The screening of magnetic fields normal to the screen will be heavily compromised as the induced currents are axial, and with the ends of the screen unconnected, cannot flow.
Faraday cages cannot block static or slowly varying magnetic fields, such as the Earth's magnetic field (a compass will still work inside). To a large degree, though, they shield the interior from external electromagnetic radiation if the conductor is thick enough and any holes are significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation. For example, certain computer forensic test procedures of electronic systems that require an environment free of electromagnetic interference can be carried out within a screened room. These rooms are spaces that are completely enclosed by one or more layers of a fine metal mesh or perforated sheet metal. The metal layers are grounded to dissipate any electric currents generated from external or internal electromagnetic fields, and thus they block a large amount of the electromagnetic interference
Well if you are going to quote from Wiki at least acknowledge it! :D
Did you think I'd grown a brain like?
There are far more accomplished ‘Wikiboys’ around than Granty…
I believe some amplifier designers use the facility regularly to ‘impress’ the gullible and portray themselves as technically knowledgeable, thus falsely elevating their perceived ‘guru status’ amongst the most impressionable and deluded of their fanboys, when in reality they’re talking out of their arse…
The actual object of the exercise, of course, is to put any information into the public domain that serves to generate sales (directly or indirectly), in order to pay for their new house (sought by their demanding, social-climbing other half) ;)
And that’s the truth!
Marco.
I might have written the article of course ;)
Who taught you to spell? :D
Marco.
walpurgis
07-12-2014, 00:03
I believe some amplifier designers use the facility regularly to ‘impress’ the gullible and portray themselves as technically knowledgeable, thus falsely elevating their perceived ‘guru status’ amongst the most impressionable and deluded of their fanboys, when in reality they’re talking out of their arse…
And that’s the truth!
Marco.
Oh yes and not just amp designers!
I'd say that these days that applies to much that requires an 'informed opinion'.
Panties (typically called knickers in British English) are a form of underwear designed to be worn by women and discerning males. Panties are most often form-fitting, but may also be loose. Typical components include an elastic waistband, a crotch panel to cover the genital area (usually lined with absorbent material such as cotton), and a pair of leg openings that, like the waistband, are often made of elastic. Various materials are used, but are usually chosen to be breathable. courtesy of Wiki ;)
walpurgis
07-12-2014, 00:12
That's completely pants Grant! :lol:
brian2957
07-12-2014, 00:14
Pack it in Grant you'll ' overheat ' yersel with this kinda stuff :lol:
Panties (typically called knickers in British English) are a form of underwear designed to be worn by women and discerning males. Panties are most often form-fitting, but may also be loose. Typical components include an elastic waistband, a crotch panel to cover the genital area (usually lined with absorbent material such as cotton), and a pair of leg openings that, like the waistband, are often made of elastic. Various materials are used, but are usually chosen to be breathable. courtesy of Wiki ;)
Goodness - anyone would think you’re a panty expert! See how easy it is? :D
Wiki: your friend when you don’t really know what you’re talking about, but want to pretend that you do.
Marco.
Anyway, moving the subject back to cables.
From what I have read, if we use the shield as part of the signal path, we increase capacitance.
If we disconnect one end, we build in an antenna.
If you leave the shield floating then from an electromagnetic field point of view, an ungrounded shield constitutes a free field reflector and antenna, as well as exhibiting elements of an open secondary transformer winding and behaves as such.
It can sound a bit euphonic, as you get a bit of false 'reverb', which you hear as it being more detailed.
So it seems like the best solution is to disconnect one end of the ground and add a 0.01µF ceramic disc capacitor between the shield and the return pin to filter out RFI.
I may give this a go, but I doubt I will hear any difference. The build will also be a pain in the neck, trying to fit a capacitor inside an RCA plug. I don't seem to have bad RFI where I live, so the effort is probably not worth it.
Anybody tried a Star-Quad cable?
As for the use of a floating screen as a "Faraday Cage", I found this quite interesting.
REDUCING CAPACITANCE-COUPLED NOISE
Capacitively-coupled noise may be reduced by reducing the coupling capacity (by increasing conductor separation), but is most easily cured by shielding. A conductive and grounded shield (known as a Faraday shield) between the signal source and the affected node will eliminate this noise, by routing the displacement current directly to ground.
With the use of such shields, it is important to note that it is always essential that a Faraday shield be grounded. A floating or open-circuit shield almost invariably increases capacitively-coupled noise.
There are far more accomplished ‘Wikiboys’ around than Granty…
I believe some amplifier designers use the facility regularly to ‘impress’ the gullible and portray themselves as technically knowledgeable,.
But surely they are technically knowledgeable?
Oldpinkman
07-12-2014, 13:20
There are far more accomplished ‘Wikiboys’ around than Granty…
I believe some amplifier designers use the facility regularly to ‘impress’ the gullible and portray themselves as technically knowledgeable, thus falsely elevating their perceived ‘guru status’ amongst the most impressionable and deluded of their fanboys, when in reality they’re talking out of their arse…
The actual object of the exercise, of course, is to put any information into the public domain that serves to generate sales (directly or indirectly), in order to pay for their new house (sought by their demanding, social-climbing other half) ;)
And that’s the truth!
Marco.
Oh well. Time for an accountants 2 penn'orth. Now I don't have post-grad degrees in maths and physics, so appreciated the explanation, but appreciated the simple demo much more. A faraday cage remains a faraday cage when it is grounded. It does not become something else. It is a grounded faraday cage. For radio frequencies grounding will has scarcely any effect on shielding properties. But I'm just an accountant - here's the demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWGm8kmoK6A
But what about all those delicate circuits and signals on the amp boards. Shouldn't I shield those with a perspex box which shields static? Well, if I thought the primary risk to my signal was an assault with a balloon rubbed on a trouser leg, I guess that would be of some benefit. But if I also want to protect against radio waves, mobile phones, cordless phones, wireless routers - I was advised that a grounded steel box will be more effective. Which is why one surrounds my Pip. :)
Of course, if I insist on using a perspex box for aesthetics or other reasons, I can always build a chicken wire faraday cage to use it in. I think that'd be really cool, but I'm struggling to convince Sue...:doh:
Women can be so unreasonable :cool:
brian2957
07-12-2014, 13:48
I'm sure this is very interesting for all the engineers out there . Although I have an engineering background it has nothing to do with audio cables or electronics . Now I know that engineering principles are very important in all this , however the ultimate arbiter ( the only one for me ) is how any cable sounds in my system and to my ears . There are thousands of cables out there and I'll never in a million years get around to trying them all .
I've tried quite a few cables though and I've really liked quite a few of them . I've found the Klotz MC5000 and the MS Audio plugs to be very good as far as SQ goes ,excellent VFM , and very good to work with. I've tried them in varying wiring configurations now and IMO they all sound very good , but quite different. As far as I'm concerned the differences boil down to a matter of choice . One wiring configuration may work better in a system which is bass light , where the other may work better in a system which lacks some focus or is defficient in one area or another . Synergy with ones system ( and ears ) is more important to me than how a cable is wired ( all IMO of course ) :)
But surely they are technically knowledgeable?
The least said about the one I’m referring to the better! ;)
The most talented audio designers, in my experience, are those whose designs evolve in direct proportion to how much they’ve learned, not simply churn out the same old stuff for years, dogmatically proclaiming it as ‘best’, to a small group of fanboys, who are too daft (and blinkered) to know any better...
Marco.
I think one has to be careful when drawing comparisons between the shielding of interconnects and the shielding of amplifiers. However, I also realise that it is very tempting to use whatever amo is to hand when it comes to winding up certain elements of the audio fraternity (can't really blame you though).
Firstly, with regard to cables, it's not an absolute given that interconnects benefit from shielding - some manufacturers swear that they do and some claim precisely the opposite - widely regarded cables of both design ethos exist.
Amplifier design is slightly different though and a relative consensus (emphasis on relative) exists that ferrous cases, whilst good from a shielding point of view, can have a negative sonic impact. For this reason many amplifiers use aluminium (non-ferrous) cases. However, eddy currents can still be generated in aluminium - recent experiments relating to the measured behaviour of inductors in proximity to various metals has proved that. For this reason some manufacturers have chosen to use non metallic cases, wood or plastic (usually acrylic). These cases don't provide any shielding except from prying fingers; the idea being that the sonic impact of shielding the circuit is worse than not doing so (assuming that the power supply is sufficiently distant or itself shielded).
As it happens, I've literally just made an acrylic sleeve for my pre-amp (the power supply is remote - 600mm away of so). This is after I made acrylic sleeves for the signal circuitry part of my phonostage (again, the power supplies are remote). I initially made the phonostage cases largely for aesthetic reasons but after fitting them I was surprised by an apparent lift in subjective sound quality. I don't know yet what I think of the pre-amp sleeve but initial listening is encouraging.
Here is a really good example of a faraday cage.
http://www.aero-consultants.ch/_files/file.php?id=964&name=Airplane-LightningStrike.jpg
You will notice that there is an entry and exit point.
As it happens, I've literally just made an acrylic sleeve for my pre-amp (the power supply is remote - 600mm away of so). This is after I made acrylic sleeves for the signal circuitry part of my phonostage (again, the power supplies are remote). I initially made the phonostage cases largely for aesthetic reasons but after fitting them I was surprised by an apparent lift in subjective sound quality. I don't know yet what I think of the pre-amp sleeve but initial listening is encouraging.
Static on the surface ?
Someone said that the best 'Faraday Cage' was an ex-council house in Epping (with a cute yellow door). You can see why ‘she who wears the trousers’ wants out… :eyebrows:
Marco.
P.S Why are men ‘of a certain age’ always so blindly subservient towards their other halves?
Static on the surface ?
What about it? It's a non issue either for or against IMO.
I read somewhere that it is good for the sound :scratch:
What, that a static charge on the case is good for the sound? The charge would be tiny unless you polished the hell out of it (wouldn't be that big even then). I've not heard that idea before. One thing that is just about feasible is that it rings less than the aluminium sleeve it has replaced - a bit tenuous though (well, it definitely rings less but the tenuous bit is whether ringing of the aluminium case was an issue or not).
Women can be so unreasonable
Nice YouTube clip. If you pay me £500.00 then I will not forward your post to Sue. If you do not then I will and you will find that you are put inside a chicken wire faraday cage and used to determine whether the size of the holes is sufficient to prevent microwave oven radiation from rearranging your internal organs.
Anyway, moving the subject back to cables.
No. Think 'continental drift'. Thread drift is like that - totally unstoppable, only faster.
P.S Why are men ‘of a certain age’ always so blindly subservient towards their other halves?
It is because we are weak Marco. Weak, weak, weak.
Someone said that the best 'Faraday Cage' was an ex-council house in Epping (with a cute yellow door). You can see why ‘she who wears the trousers’ wants out… :eyebrows:
Marco.
P.S Why are men ‘of a certain age’ always so blindly subservient towards their other halves?
Marco, I'm sorry but two wrongs NEVER make a 'right!' Remember, I've been to this place on a good few occasions now and can swear on my parent's graves that 'she' is nothing like this at all (and after the first visit when I was rather late, missing the email that morning and not realising that lunch had been cooked and prepared for a certain time, I'm surprised she has any time for me at all!). As it is, I think it's a great idea to own your own home if you can, don't you sir (you own several I understand :))?
It is because we are weak Marco. Weak, weak, weak.
Speak for yourself sir :lol: I'd currently be lost without my better half's organisation skills, especially at this time of the year!
Dave,
I’m not getting into this here, mate (for obvious reasons). However...
Marco, I'm sorry but two wrongs NEVER make a 'right!'
Precisely - and you want to tell ‘him’ that! ;)
The rest I will take to PM.
Marco.
What, that a static charge on the case is good for the sound? The charge would be tiny unless you polished the hell out of it (wouldn't be that big even then). I've not heard that idea before. One thing that is just about feasible is that it rings less than the aluminium sleeve it has replaced - a bit tenuous though (well, it definitely rings less but the tenuous bit is whether ringing of the aluminium case was an issue or not).
Sorry, I misinterpreted what I had read. It probably has nothing to do directly with the sound. My fault.
So if a Faraday cage floating shield is so good, why do few manufacturers use it?
It seems that in Professional audio circles, it's a big no no to leave a shield floating.
So if a Faraday cage floating shield is so good, why dodo few manufacturers use it?
It seems that in Professional audio circles, it's a big no no to leave a shield floating.
Is it a dodo or a nono?
This is a subjectivist forum; if it sounds good, it is good. I do wonder why people who clearly struggle with the science feel the need to seek a scientific explanation for what they're hearing.
Indeed, I couldn’t give a monkey’s sloppy jobbey-flop about ‘Faraday Cages’, and any of that pish, or what folk with a limited amount of technical knowledge on the subject belligerently and dogmatically hammer home as being ‘correct’ (when having spoken to those with rather greater technical knowledge on the subject, guarantee is incorrect, or rather, more wrong than right) - and I’ll take their opinion every time over that of a Wiki-created, self-confessed ‘expert’, elsewhere on the web.
In terms of the Klotz cables in question, in the context of my system and ears, connecting the shield at one end (the source), and using them in a directional fashion that way, sounds best, and that’s the end of my interest in the matter.
Marco.
brian2957
08-12-2014, 11:01
Is it a dodo or a nono?
This is a subjectivist forum; if it sounds good, it is good. I do wonder why people who clearly struggle with the science feel the need to seek a scientific explanation for what they're hearing.
I couldn't have said it better myself Joe . I'll leave the science to those who understand it and continue to use my lugholes :)
Sorry, I misinterpreted what I had read. It probably has nothing to do directly with the sound. My fault.
No problem - you may not have misinterpreted it though, there are all kinds of odd ideas out on the Internet :). It is true that acrylic cases will hold an electrostatic charge and perhaps the operation of some components can charge the air around them and hence the case.
a touch of alchemy for certain
;-)
One thing that makes me giggle sometimes is the ridiculous notion, held by some (usually rather dull, po-faced ’science types’, who possess little faith in their senses, and so resent others able to use their ears), that an audio enthusiast with many years experience, but with little technical knowledge, has no credibility… It’s a rather superficial and blinkered mindset to have.
I don’t need to know how an amplifier is designed in order to comment, with some authority, on how it sounds, as long as I’ve heard the amp in question in a relevant context, nor do I need to know how to solder cables together to make an authoritative statement on how they perform sonically in my system, or to recommend them to others.
When I need some electrical work done at home, I call an electrician, when I need my car serviced, I go to a mechanic - and when I want some cables made, I defer to those who know how to solder properly. I’ve never been a builder or ‘DIY-er’, so I acknowledge my limitations there, but I do have skills in other areas.
Just as a leading restaurant critic doesn’t require to be a great chef (he or she merely needs to be au fait with the rudiments of fine-dining and to appreciate haute cuisine), neither does an audiophile and music lover need to know the ins and outs of an amplifier circuit, or what constitutes as a ‘Faraday Cage’, in order to have a valid opinion on hi-fi or music - or indeed be in a position to offer subjective advice to others in a similar position.
For us, it’s the end result, not how we got there, that matters! :exactly:
What say you all? :)
Marco.
One thing that makes me giggle sometimes is the ridiculous notion, held by some (usually rather dull, po-faced ’science types’, who possess little faith in their senses, and so resent others able to use their ears), that an audio enthusiast with many years experience, but with little technical knowledge, has no credibility… It’s a rather superficial and blinkered mindset to have.
I don’t need to know how an amplifier is designed to comment, with some authority, on how it sounds, as long as I’ve heard the amp in question in a relevant context, nor do I need to know how to solder cables together to make an authoritative statement on how they perform sonically in my system, or to recommend them to others.
Well, quite, but as I said before, most of the problems arise when those (like me) without technical knowledge start speculating/guessing/asserting what causes the things they like (or dislike) to sound the way do, with the result that those who do have technical knowledge feel obliged to wade in and say 'it can't be for the reason you give because [long technical bit that I can't understand].' We then either get into cut 'n paste wars, and/or all sorts of extraneous stuff like the colour of someone's front door gets dragged in.
Given that this forum stamps down on the objectivist 'it's only a real difference if you can hear it in a blind test' stance, people should simply say 'I prefer A to B' and explain their preference in purely sonic terms and leave the technical stuff to those who do understand it, for example people who make a living making and selling equipment rather than just going into a shop and flashing the plastic.
Well, quite, but as I said before, most of the problems arise when those (like me) without technical knowledge start speculating/guessing/asserting what causes the things they like (or dislike) to sound the way do, with the result that those who do have technical knowledge feel obliged to wade in and say 'it can't be for the reason you give because [long technical bit that I can't understand].'
Well, as it’s only hi-fi, not ‘life or death’, I don’t see the harm in anyone, after say they’ve upgraded cables and noticed a sonic improvement of some description, merely speculating as to the reasons why they think what’s happened has happened - providing they make it clear that what they’re writing is merely their subjective opinion, not fact.
As far as that’s concerned, incidentally, there should be no need to plaster posts with ‘IMO’ every two sentences; it should be automatically taken for granted that on forums, unless specifically stated otherwise, the views of the poster only represent his or her opinion.
Furthermore, advice from those who are technically knowledgeable should always be welcomed, *providing* that it’s given out of a genuine desire to help and educate, rather than to ridicule/demean and come across as a smart arse, or self-confessed ‘expert'. Too often on forums, it's the latter that occurs - and that’s when the ‘wars’ start!
Tolerance and mutual respect is the key to genuine learning, and not enough of it shown on forums by both sides of the sub/obj divide.
Given that this forum stamps down on the objectivist 'it's only a real difference if you can hear it in a blind test’ stance…
Not at all. We stamp down on no such thing. ALL views are welcome here, provided that none are dogmatically absolutist in nature or designed to irk, rather than to assist or educate.
The problem is that not many objectivists who’ve joined AoS have managed to behave themselves properly, by observing our ethos and the subjectivist nature of this site, and so have suffered accordingly by receiving a ban. Those objectivists that have respected our ethos, and behaved in the correct manner, have remained and participate here without problems.
What we do stamp down on (very firmly) is pointless circular sub/obj arguments, such as unfortunately occur all to often on the likes of pfm, where certain members there have an unhealthy mania with blind testing, and cannot seem to fathom why everyone else doesn’t share the same mindset! :doh:
That’s not to say it’s not a valid way of assessing the efficacy of equipment or cables, and when relevant, we welcome the subject being discussed constructively, but it’s most certainly not the ‘be all and end all’, as far as being a method for ‘proving’ what we hear or not.
...people should simply say 'I prefer A to B' and explain their preference in purely sonic terms and leave the technical stuff to those who do understand it, for example people who make a living making and selling equipment rather than just going into a shop and flashing the plastic.
Like I said before, I see no harm in saying whatever you like, as long as it’s legal, doesn’t harm anyone, and is quite clearly put forward simply a statement of your subjective opinion. We’re all big boys here, and so able to decide for ourselves whether we think someone is talking bullshit or not, and therefore to accept or dismiss their opinion, without the need in that respect for an ‘objectivist referee’.
Participating on audio forums, and chatting to other like-minded people about hi-fi or music, should be a relaxed, informal experience. It should NOT be like submitting a formal thesis for technical appraisal. The exercise is about informally relating your experiences to others, within a friendly environment, in the chance that others may benefit in some way - and most of all to HAVE FUN! :exactly:
Otherwise, it would all be very dull indeed….
In that respect, good forums should seek to promote discussion, on all levels, not stifle it simply because what’s being written doesn’t conform to some rigid scientific 'notion of correctness’ - and that’s precisely what we do here on AoS :)
Marco.
Why do cable threads always fizzle out ?
Why do cable threads always fizzle out ?
What makes you think this one has? :D
Why do cable threads always fizzle out ?
It's fizzled out because we grounded the faraday cage, and the potential in the cage now equals the potential of the space inside the cage.
What makes you think this one has? :D
No fizzle out here - we’re still fizzling away nicely!
Marco.
It's fizzled out because we grounded the faraday cage, and the potential in the cage now equals the potential of the space inside the cage.
I know who I’d like to shove in a cage - and it’d be an electrified one! ;)
Marco.
I'd still like to know what the colour of someone's front door has to do with anything.
I'd still like to know what the colour of someone's front door has to do with anything.
Apparently it’s the ‘in thing’ to do in Epping, to tart up a council house. Yellow is considered as aspirational.
Marco.
Apparently it’s the ‘in thing’ to do in Epping, to tart up a council house. Yellow is considered as aspirational.
Marco.
Facinating. Mine's black, but to fair, it could do with a lick of paint.
mine is white non conductive with double butted hangers
I'd still like to know what the colour of someone's front door has to do with anything.
It doesn't, nor does the location of the front door matter. It was a vicarious attempt at thread drift by, and for, those "in the know". I don't expect it will occur again.
BTH K10A
10-12-2014, 00:53
I'd still like to know what the colour of someone's front door has to do with anything.
Ask Shakin' Stevens ;)
It doesn't, nor does the location of the front door matter.
I would have thought it was important that the front door should be at the front.
Oldpinkman
10-12-2014, 06:29
I would have thought it was important that the front door should be at the front.
I wish you'd been around to mention that to the architect of our house - ours is at the back, covered by a curtain, unused in the last 10 years... :(
I would have thought it was important that the front door should be at the front.
Seem rather immaterial when the butler opens it anyway.
Marco.
BTH K10A
10-12-2014, 07:40
Seem rather immaterial when the butler opens it anyway.
Marco.
Is his name Dave?
We call ours ‘Mr Tibbs’. What’s yours called?
Marco.
Ali Tait
10-12-2014, 08:01
Boris The Blade.
He sounds more like a bouncer, than a butler! :D
Marco.
brian2957
10-12-2014, 08:32
He's a minder :chainsaw:
Ali Tait
10-12-2014, 08:36
Aye, does a bit of wet work too on occasion. Just to keep his hand in you understand.
brian2957
10-12-2014, 08:38
Any luck ?
Ali Tait
10-12-2014, 08:44
Nah. :-(
Wrong time of year.
brian2957
10-12-2014, 08:52
I'm sure you'll get something soon mate . I'm off for a couple of days want to come over to mine . I'll feed you cakes :lol:
Minder to look after the waistcoats, butler to polish them (and maintain the leather of course) :lol:
Sorry thread drift, back on topic
KLE have a new harmony RCA now even better than the pure silver, sooper dooper silver 99.999999999% pure :lol:
Will make some up with Klotz when I get time (maybe december 2019 if I am lucky) :)
By that time it will be wireless signal transfer all over the home no wires at all (even wireless mains is being worked on but not in my lifetime)
Ali Tait
10-12-2014, 11:46
Better than polishing yer bell end!
Better than polishing yer bell end!
Would you use a silver or gold cleaning cloth for that then? :ner:
Ali Tait
10-12-2014, 12:02
Brass, the way the weather is!
brian2957
10-12-2014, 12:28
I heard he used a scouring pad then wet and dry sandpaper :lol:
Ali Tait
10-12-2014, 12:38
Wire brush and Dettol..
KLE have a new harmony RCA now even better than the pure silver, sooper dooper silver 99.999999999% pure :lol:
If it was pure silver before, how can this be any better?
RobbieGong
10-12-2014, 13:19
If it was pure silver before, how can this be any better?
:lol: Exactly, How much more soooper doooper woooper can it get ! :lol:
I would have thought a purity of 99.999999999% was near impossible to achieve, let alone measure. The impurities would constitute 1 part in 100 billion.
Sounds like another example of an exaggerated claim being made by a manufacturer in their advertising.
I would have thought a purity of 99.999999999% was near impossible to achieve, let alone measure. The impurities would constitute 1 part in 100 billion.
Sounds like another example of an exaggerated claim being made by a manufacturer in their advertising.
The smiley means it is a joke - I think. Either that or the '9' key got stuck.
They do have a new plug out, the "Absolute Harmony."
Wire brush and Dettol..
That's what South Islanders use to brush their teeth ... their weekly ritual ... if they have teeth.
Wire brush and Dettol..
I’m a cheese-grater (useful for chamfering off the accumulated build-up of ‘Gouda') and paraffin man myself, plus some long-nosed pliers are great for fishing out any remnants of smeg.
Marco.
Better just dipping it in acetone:lol:
They do have a new plug out, the "Absolute Harmony."
200 aus dollars a set of 4....seems a bit pricey to me.
Mark Grant
11-12-2014, 14:58
So if a Faraday cage floating shield is so good, why do few manufacturers use it?
It seems that in Professional audio circles, it's a big no no to leave a shield floating.
Chord do a floating shield ( I have not tried this one)
http://www.chord.co.uk/blog/new-product-launched-chord-c-line-interconnect-5-nov-2014/
http://www.chord.co.uk/product/chord-c-line-stereo-rca-interconnect/
The description says ' Fully floating high density shielding' and it's game changing :)
Have they been reading forums for the latest trend ;)
Very reasonable price although only available in two short lengths and if the shield is not connected it will be very quick and easy to terminate.
200 aus dollars a set of 4....seems a bit pricey to me.
A bargain to others maybe? :)
Chord do a floating shield ( I have not tried this one)
http://www.chord.co.uk/blog/new-product-launched-chord-c-line-interconnect-5-nov-2014/
http://www.chord.co.uk/product/chord-c-line-stereo-rca-interconnect/
The description says ' Fully floating high density shielding' and it's game changing :)
Have they been reading forums for the latest trend ;)
Very reasonable price although only available in two short lengths and if the shield is not connected it will be very quick and easy to terminate.
Other manufacturers I have seen that have a fully floating shield (acting as a Faraday cage?) actually ground the cage out using an external "box", which I guess connects to a chassis ground somewhere.
Other manufacturers I have seen that have a fully floating shield (acting as a Faraday cage?) actually ground the cage out using an external "box", which I guess connects to a chassis ground somewhere.
This works.
Ive made a floating earth grounded to the chassis for all of the internal cables in my server, and Ive found it can noticably improve things, especially with a star earthing arrangement.
I suspect the bit that Chord think is ground breaking is the ARAY technology they allude to. This ARAY consists of an extra length of wire connected to the return at one end only. This parasitic wire is cut to a specific length and this is what they refer to as the 'tuned' part. To be honest it sounds more like the description of an aerial to me. According to Chord it helps stop 'reflected signal'....
I suspect the bit that Chord think is ground breaking is the ARAY technology they allude to. This ARAY consists of an extra length of wire connected to the return at one end only. This parasitic wire is cut to a specific length and this is what they refer to as the 'tuned' part. To be honest it sounds more like the description of an aerial to me. According to Chord it helps stop 'reflected signal'....
+1
How it stops a reflected signal being just one parasitic wire I'd be interested in learning. Perhaps so would many transmission line engineers. Their "in depth" section isn't. I'm struggling here to see what's "ground breaking" or "game changing" here. It seems fashionable to stray from either a well made coax or overall shielded twin core in recent months (what exactly is it that we have we been missing all these years?). There's always another angle to be explored for sales and marketing. Nothing wrong at all in folk trying out what they want to and enjoying the process but really...game changing? More so than moving your speakers 12 inches, toeing them in a bit or even changing them? I think not.
Chord do a floating shield ( I have not tried this one)
http://www.chord.co.uk/blog/new-product-launched-chord-c-line-interconnect-5-nov-2014/
http://www.chord.co.uk/product/chord-c-line-stereo-rca-interconnect/
The description says ' Fully floating high density shielding' and it's game changing :)
Have they been reading forums for the latest trend ;)
Very reasonable price although only available in two short lengths and if the shield is not connected it will be very quick and easy to terminate.
I have heard Chord Signature ARAY cables. They were an early version and did not have the same appearance as those shown on the Chord website.
They are thick, stiff and somewhat unwieldy to use and had to be dressed properly. However they displayed a curious and intriguing aspect to the sound that was clear, repeatable and unique to the Chord ARAY cables. It is difficult to describe exactly what it was in words, but the closest I can do is to say that there was a subtle but noticeable improvement in the articulation and projection of vocals. It wasn’t ‘night and day’ by any means, but the effect was there, subtle but distinct and disappeared when another cable was substituted.
I was unable to directly examine their construction, as the cable itself was covered with a (now mandatory), black woven plastic mesh sheathing. Furthermore extensive use had been made of heatshrink sleeving covering the RCA phono plugs. Of course this is to prevent third parties from copying the design. All that one could tell from handling the cables was that two (coaxial?) cables are used in each interconnect, but how they were connected was unknown
Not surprisingly, Chord are reluctant to reveal their construction. All they say is the cables use a foam PTFE dielectric and silver conductors. Intrigued by the effect I had the interconnects x-rayed, where it was revealed that they use two lengths of coaxial cable (of size similar to RG 58) having a solid inner conductor, with the inner conductor of one used for the signal path (that is, connecting between the two pins of the RCA phono plugs) and the inner conductor of the second being used for the return. They were thus wired ‘shotgun’ fashion. Importantly the outer screens of the two coaxial cables were connected together, but left floating. Interestingly, Chord had at one end of the Signature ARAY cable, brought the two connected screens out to a small socket, allowing an optional grounding lead to be fitted should the user wish to do so.
I was unable to measure the interconnect capacitance (the cables were not mine, I was unable to borrow them, so did not hear them in my own system). Given some idea of their construction, a copy was made using two lengths of RG 223 coaxial cable for each interconnect. RG 223 uses a solid silver-plated copper inner conductor and two outer braids of silver-plated copper. The two braids are in contact with one another throughout the cable, and in the copy the two screens were connected together at each end, and were left to float. The dielectric of RG 223 is solid polyethylene, so does not fully mimic the “foam PTFE” of the Chord ARAY interconnects. When used in the same system used to addition the ARAY interconnects, it was found that the ‘copies’ displayed much of the same intriguing articulation and vocal projection that had been noted.
So it would appear that audio signal interconnects can be wired using a so-called shotgun construction (Chord are not the only audio cable manufacturer to do so), where the shielding or screening is electrically left to float.
Mark Grant
11-12-2014, 21:28
Intrigued by the effect I had the interconnects x-rayed,
Sneaky :) Full marks for ingenuity :)
Ali Tait
11-12-2014, 22:20
The inner core of a coax could be removed and replaced with some high purity silver if desired.
brian2957
11-12-2014, 22:28
Aye , lots to choose from here : http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/copper.html
This works.
Ive made a floating earth grounded to the chassis for all of the internal cables in my server, and Ive found it can noticably improve things, especially with a star earthing arrangement.
Isn't that an oxymoron? How can it be floating if it's grounded to the chassis (which itself will be earthed)?
The inner core of a coax could be removed and replaced with some high purity silver if desired.
That sounds difficult to do: the dielectric is molded over the inner conductor.
Ali Tait
11-12-2014, 22:41
I've done it in the past with coax I think from Maplin. I think the open cell nature of the coax construction can allow the option of threading of new cable through the open cells rather than removing and replacing the center conductor.
It was a good few years ago now, can't remember exactly what I did.
brian2957
11-12-2014, 22:43
If the inner core has a Teflon dialectric it can sometimes be done .
Ali Tait
11-12-2014, 23:14
Some reference is made here-
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/shoestrings_e.html
Regarding the Chord 'Tuned ARAY' cables, the document linked to below gives quite a lot of specific detail regarding their construction:
http://www.soundorg.com/info/soundorg/uploads/chord/Tuned_Conductor_Aray_Technology_tech_stuff.pdf
A section from the above PDF:
The unique feature of the Tuned ARAY is the addition of a third conductor, also employing silver-plated conductors and an extremely effective insulation. This conductor is attached to the signal return of the RCA plug at the receiving end of the cable. The conductor is cut to a very specific length. This length is critical to the extraordinary improvements in performance that the Tuned ARAY conductor configuration brings.
A lot more detail is given but I don't want to type out the whole thing.
Regarding the Chord 'Tuned ARAY' cables, the document linked to below gives quite a lot of specific detail regarding their construction:
http://www.soundorg.com/info/soundorg/uploads/chord/Tuned_Conductor_Aray_Technology_tech_stuff.pdf
A section from the above PDF:
A lot more detail is given but I don't want to type out the whole thing.
It's still marketing speak though Mark as all it does is to describe what the construction is. What would be of interest (not in a cynics viewpoint, but of genuine interest) is linked evidence supporting the claims of superior performance compared with the "standards" in cable geometry. Perhaps looking at it another way, just why can't a well made twin core "pseudo balanced" geometry be capable of carrying "micro detail" and "timbrel information" equally as well? It seems that a lot is not said and that such claims have to reference the operational environment (electromagnetic/RFI environment), the connected test system's own chassis ground current and connected kit ground voltage potential would have to be known and then other cables tested for comparison. Even then, to put all of that into context, the results would have to be expressed in real terms (S/N ratio is often used as a good comparator but that only allows for noise floor description) referenced as to what is actually audible. I'm all for technological advancement and applaud good engineering practice. As impressive as all of this (expensive) construction is, it still doesn't seem to be substantiated but then again 99.99% of all competitors' aren't either. It is of interest so one would think that it would be to their benefit to publicise properly documented evidence.
Oh yes, I agree - I'm not saying that the link proves anything (it doesn't) or promoting/endorsing the ideas. The PDF does describe in relative detail what it is that Chord actually do to make their cables and in that respect I think it is interesting. I agree that the whole premise sounds daft and I can't see how it would do anything other than act as an antenna. Oddly, Chord say that the length of this parasitic tail is independent of the cable length which doesn't seem logical either.
brian2957
12-12-2014, 10:57
Create some mysticism around the product and people will come to have a look . It may even appear to be worth the extra cash . :rolleyes: What we understand bores us .
Blueflash
24-12-2014, 17:20
I have just made some balanced interconnects using Van Damme XKE microphone cable 268-040-090, and Neutrik NC3F and NC3M XX BAG connectors.
I was using some home brew Silver core wire from Wires.com, teflon insulated and terminated with the above connectors.
I was always impressed by my solid silver interconnects using the design from "The cable cookbook". Very open sound, good tuneful bass, no treble sharpness. All in all a good cable.
The Van Damme cable has somehow released some more depth to the stereo image. There are no downsides from what I can hear and that was 5 mins with my Live Caparcailie CD.
I will leave it warming up and have another listen in a couple of hours.
So far, it is well worth trying out as it is only £1.30 per meter length …..
Blueflash
26-12-2014, 15:16
The cables are going to stay in for now. I noticed when echo or reverb is applied to vocals, the trailing sound goes on more times instead of getting drowned by the rest of the music playing.
Being a balanced system, I did not think I would hear much just by a cable change. It is good though, I have more things to play with :-)
I have just ordered the MS Audio plugs and a suitable length of cable to complete the wiring of my system with the MC5000.
I still prefer the minor increase in detail of the FURUTECH FA-220, but at €42/m the Klotz wins the battle by coming in at a relatively cheap €2.80/m
I'm looking forwards to finishing the cabling off, which will probably be my last HiFi purchase of 2015.
As much as I would love a new pair of speakers, the speaker upgrade fund is going to have to be spent elsewhere. :)
On the topic of SPPV cables I recently started using XLR again and got out my trusty Mark Grant Canare Star Quad / Neutrik interconnects - does anyone think there is something better for the money? In any case XLR cables have far less "sound signature" than RCA.
I used the MC5000 for this. It's ideal for the job.
I used the MC5000 for this. It's ideal for the job.
So is the Star Quad? Both look "ideal" to me and far less faff with XLR sonic differences.
Star quad has an extra conductor?
MC5000 you use both conductors and the screen.
Having received the connectors yesterday, tables are all finished and installed.
It's a satisfying experience listening to the music having built all my own cables. I have saved a fair chunk of cash and the system sounds great too.
I think I may have to try a speaker kit next.
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