Goldpoint SA4M-47 passive 'preamp' winging its way to Marco Towers...

[DSJR]

I don't follow an appointed anybody, but I do respect people who 'feel' music similarly to myself ya know In the preamp I've made, the Glasshouse is obviously fine, but the other one I mentioned does look very neat

As an aside, I'd love to know 'why' going from 1/5m to 1m on the MC5000 makes a difference at all. Silly question, but have both cables had plenty of use (you know where I'm coming from with giving freshly made MC5000 and AC110 some hours of use before judging them). Anyway, I'm diverting without meaning to, it's just that from such a distance, I'm genuinely trying to put some sort of focus or meaning to this, that's all...

[Marco]

I know YOU don't follow anyone. I was referring to something else, and I think you know what/who I mean!

The cable thing is easy... I thought it was an established fact that passives prefer the shortest cable lengths possible? They have difficulty 'driving' longer cable lengths, compared with active designs. That's certainly been my experience, and there are technical explanations for it. From earlier:

Agreed about cables, which is why I use nothing longer than 0.5m interconnects, with the Goldpoint - and high quality, low-capacitance (minimum loss, low attenuation) ones at that.

Yes, resistive passives will be very sensitive to capacitance on the output side.

That pretty much nails it.

Now, whilst the Goldpoint (or the Tisbury before it) certainly don't sound 'broken', with a 1m pair of interconnects attached to them, I can still hear a detrimental sonic effect, compared with when cables half that length are used instead - and enough to always make me want to use that length.

With respect, you have the tendency to cast doubt [albeit in a polite/pseudo-apologetic way] over what others can genuinely hear with certain things, simply because you're unable to do so yourself (subtly inferring that it's imagined), and whilst you're entitled to your opinion, that aspect of how you put things across is rather patronising.

Trouble is, I think it's just your style and you can't help it!

Marco.

[DSJR]

I'm interested, not patronising from a fixed viewpoint My workroom system has a half metre TIS from DAC to switcher (passive pre with Tisbury-style attenuators feeding via MC5000 to a Crown D-60 for headphone duties, which still sounds good into speakers too imo, but I digress), this then has a 1m SSC to my NVA P50 preamp (damaged AP20 box, but it's a P50 inside) and then 1m SSC to NVA power amps, 1m Ecoflex 10 to the Krell and 1m Klotz 110 to the HH. I can't really shorten any of these and the length doesn't seem to affect the little 47k film pot in the P50, but obviously, if I go for a high quality attenuator for best channel matching at 'very' low levels, I wouldn't want the expense to be largely wasted by not using the right exit cables.

The SSC cables offer around 45pF/m I guess, the AC110 around 70pF and the Ecoflex cable is around 70pF/m -

http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-...nic-ecoflex-10

https://www.diodecomms.co.uk/index.p...roller=product

So I'm not trying to be condescending, but I AM genuinely interested on others' findings here, as it will apply to me

[Marco]

Ok, I accept that.

However, the thing is, we use totally different equipment/cables (and I suspect have slightly different views on what sounds good), so I don't see how extrapolating what I've done in my system, to yours, is likely to allow you any special kind of insight into what is and what isn't the right way of going about things?

Just use your own system and your own ears to judge things, and forget about what I've done, would be my advice

Marco.

[awkwardbydesign]

Ok, I accept that.

However, the thing is, we use totally different equipment/cables (and I suspect have slightly different views on what sounds good), so I don't see how extrapolating what I've done in my system, to yours, is likely to allow you any special kind of insight into what is and what isn't the right way of doing things?

Just use your own system and your own ears to judge things, and forget about what I've done, would be my advice

Marco.

But can't we learn from other people's experiences? It may not work all the time, but worth trying to understand, surely?

[orbscure]

But can't we learn from other people's experiences? It may not work all the time, but worth trying to understand, surely?

Spot on Richard! Much, if not all, of my audio experimentation has been influenced by this and other hi-fi forums... and several pieces of kit I've owned and currently use is as a direct result of these discussions too...

[Marco]

But can't we learn from other people's experiences? It may not work all the time, but worth trying to understand, surely?

Yes, for sure, but I get the feeling that Dave's attempting to obtain some sort of 'definitive' answer on this, by following what I've done, and that's simply not going to happen. You can get some clues, but ultimately he must judge things for himself in his own system.

Just because in my system, to my ears, I can hear the detrimental sonic effect of using 1m length interconnects, with the Goldpoint (compared with 0.5m ones) doesn't mean that he will too, with his NVA cables and equipment, which may react in a different way. There is no real correlation here - and that's my point.

Marco.

[Marco]

Spot on Richard! Much, if not all, of my audio experimentation has been influenced by this and other hi-fi forums... and several pieces of kit I've owned and currently use is as a direct result of these discussions too...

You see, that's where we're different. Whilst I've definitely learned from others here (on various matters) and will continue to do so, I tend to just go off and do things on my own accord and then report the results I get. I prefer learning mostly from my own experiences, even if that means sometimes getting it wrong.

What is it they say again about the man who never makes any mistakes?

The trick is to LEARN from them, and crucially, use that learning curve to your advantage in future. That's how I've ended up with the type of system I have!

Marco.

[Marco]

Unfortunately, more nonsense from the uninitiated 'elsewhere' I'm afraid I have to deal with:

There is a very good reason for that and that is your interconnect is not suitable for a passive, if you hear that much difference between 1m and 50cm then the capacitance of the cable is too high for the interface you are using it with.

Read the spec here: http://shop.klotz-ais.com/quickorder.../MC5000__d.pdf

The MC-5000s are already very low-capacitance cables, at 55 pF/m, so it's got feck all to do with that. As usual, you shoot your big mouth off without properly assessing the facts of the matter!

The reason why I can hear the difference is quite simple: passive preamps by their very nature prefer the shortest cable lengths possible, and in a revealing system you can hear the results when things in that respect are sub-optimal, i.e. less than perfect. I'm not saying 'broken', just not as good as they could be.

In order to prove the point, if you think that your cables are any better, let's ask someone here who uses SSCs to loan me a pair, and if they sound better (to my ears) with the Goldpoint, than is achieved with the MC5000s, then I'll report it here, fairly and squarely! If not, I'll report that, too. Unlike you (as I have a life), I'm not interested in furthering some pointless 'war'; merely on potentially improving my hi-fi system.

So if there are any SSC users up for that test, PM me, and we'll sort out the details

Marco.

[Marco]

Once again taken in by bullshit because you don't have the knowledge to tell any different. Specifications need to be qualified to make any sense what were the parameters, how were they measured. I can tell you just by looking at a picture of the construction with the pos and neg so close to each other with a cheap PVC dielectric that figure CANNOT be correct. But this is usual in the cable trade I am afraid. The latest thing is low cap so they all say they are low cap as they know they will get away with it.

Lol... You're so full of shit, it's unreal! So a professional cable, such as Klotz MC5000, used in 1000s of studios throughout the world, has specs published which, according to you, are marketing guff? Jeez, your blinkered idiocy knows no bounds!

If it were 'foo' audiophile cables we were discussing, then you might have a point. However, cables used in professional environments, aren't subject to fads or 'latest things': they do *exactly* what they say on the tin, otherwise the companies producing them would not only get into big trouble, but the cables wouldn't sell, because professional users buy them on their specs!

Anyway, I won't entertain any more of your bullshit, even though it's fun making a mockery of your ridiculously ill-informed absolutist statements. Let's cut to the proof of the pudding. Anyone with a spare pair of SSCs, let me know, and I'll test them against the MC5000s (and their 'made up' low-capacitance ), for use on the Goldpoint. Then, we'll soon find out the truth of the matter...

Marco.