Goodbye HiFi Wigwam

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Wasn't really interested about your disagreements with other sites and their members, the point i was trying to make is that a major enthusiasts
event is best placed where people from all over, and not just the south east would consider attending, that's why i said in the Midlands.

Then I say again, why does it have to be one. Was there just one commercial hi-fi show? Forums and other on line aspects are the future of this industry, and this aspect is just an extension of that community.

[alfie2902]

Well it seems to me that the content at Wigwam, which such a large number of people here object to, makes it a requisite. Then they can all do and say what they want to each other without offending anyone else. Plus people have to make an effort to walk through the door, so if they don't like it, then tough.

Richard, they have to make an effort to walk through the door now! No one is forced to read the Wam, it is a choice!! So why read it then moan about it when you choose to read it!!!!

It's cool that people have the choice to be here & enjoy the forum! They have the choice, they do not have to visit the Wam if they find it offensive or not to their likeing!

Anyway I'm going to step out of this one, as you can see I enjoyed the Wam! & I also enjoy being here & I don't suppose Marco needs or wants this here! So apoliges Marco.

[chelsea]

I don't belive there would be enough interest in each city to get 50 different systems and hundreds of paying punters to make it break even.

50 systems was only just managed at scalford.

[Effem]

Frank, the Wam is owned by James! Just as AoS is owned by Marco! We are just their guests, If need be either can ban me, I can't ban them & neither can any of the membership! It is their choice on what happens on their forum James pulling the plug pretty much tells you this!!!

As you say you visit a spit & sawdust pub when you want that expierence & that sort of banter! So why should forums be different? you visit the one or ones that fit the expierence you are looking for!

If you don't like the spit & sawdust pub then don't visit! I am though old enough to make my own choice which pub I visit & sometimes the Wam fits!

A history lesson might be appropriate here Alfie.

Hifiwigwam was born pure and simply from the problems hi-fi choice had and a few of us decided we would break away and create our own forum to get away from those problems. Nobody nominated James to set up that forum, but we went with the flow based upon his character he demonstrated. I was going to set it up myself but held back because I had trade interests I thought it would not be appropriate. The ethos was it was purely a forum where we could discuss our hobby without flaming, we could discuss contentious issues like cables without the 1000+ vitriolic posts that regularly occurred on HFC.

For the first year it was exactly that and yes some politically incorrect threads were started and James was on top of them in an instant. He upset my missus over her crystal healing beliefs and I can still remember word for word the sincere apology he wrote to her. I took him to task about the "C" word being increasingly used on the forum which my missus found so offensive and he took steps to stop it - that was all we asked, just that ONE word, which he did for a while.

I drove clean across the country to attend a bakeoff he was hosting and he was the epitome of charm and nicety, a really nice guy to meet. I had met him previously to that at a bakeoff in Bristol and the damn fool scratched the living daylights out of my PS Audio power amp by placing a DAC on it with spikes underneath, then at his bakeoff he managed to fry someone's Linn Classik by shorting the speaker wires together, but no matter, James was a likeable chap and it was easy to forgive his mistakes.

Year three and James was a changed man. Suddenly he had "seen the light" about cables and tweaks, so that became his entire Mantra from then on. He became the biggest anti-foo protagonist and while I didn't particularly mind that, it was the offensiveness in which that Mantra was delivered with, that I had serious issues with. No longer the ordinary hi-fi enthusiast that I knew at the beginning, willing to share his experiences with others, he was on an ego trip being the "forum owner" and had become a total bully from that position.

From then until now it has been downhill all the way for me and his bigotry has got worse and worse - as anyone who read his recent rant about public sector workers will testify.

In summary then, if the wigwam was originally conceived to be a spit and sawdust four ale bar, with disgusting language being used, overt racism and misogyny, condoned bullying and abuse, then as you say I would have steered well clear from the outset, or not allowed it to be created in the first place had I known that the "owner" would turn it into a bear pit of the worst kind, his personal playground for his inflated ego.

[Jac Hawk]

Then I say again, why does it have to be one. Was there just one commercial hi-fi show? Forums and other on line aspects are the future of this industry, and this aspect is just an extension of that community.

There can be as many as you want, but you've already highlighted the main problem, attendance, if there was an event on every week, some would be popular and some would die, leaving someone with a bill to pay, Commercial events are different and no one person is left with a bill if it isn't successful, a major event once or twice a year organised and run by enthusiasts, would mean that it would be fun, well attended and successful.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Richard, they have to make an effort to walk through the door now! No one is forced to read the Wam, it is a choice!! So why read it then moan about it when you choose to read it!!!!

We all wander around the web, it just take a step to put your foot in sh1t. If you have to join then you take the consequences of stepping in it, it was your choice.

Personally I joined Wigwam about four years ago, without realising the place it was. Made one post about ebay and got attacked immediately by the in crowd dog pack. Next was a post from James demanding £50 for the privilege of being insulted, so both were told where they could stick it.

[ursus262]

I'm sure most of these posters act quite normaly when not hiding behind a computer screen because in the real world they would probably get a good slapping.

Quite!

[Jac Hawk]

A history lesson might be appropriate here Alfie.

Hifiwigwam was born pure and simply from the problems hi-fi choice had and a few of us decided we would break away and create our own forum to get away from those problems. Nobody nominated James to set up that forum, but we went with the flow based upon his character he demonstrated. I was going to set it up myself but held back because I had trade interests I thought it would not be appropriate. The ethos was it was purely a forum where we could discuss our hobby without flaming, we could discuss contentious issues like cables without the 1000+ vitriolic posts that regularly occurred on HFC.

For the first year it was exactly that and yes some politically incorrect threads were started and James was on top of them in an instant. He upset my missus over her crystal healing beliefs and I can still remember word for word the sincere apology he wrote to her. I took him to task about the "C" word being increasingly used on the forum which my missus found so offensive and he took steps to stop it - that was all we asked, just that ONE word, which he did for a while.

I drove clean across the country to attend a bakeoff he was hosting and he was the epitome of charm and nicety, a really nice guy to meet. I had met him previously to that at a bakeoff in Bristol and the damn fool scratched the living daylights out of my PS Audio power amp by placing a DAC on it with spikes underneath, then at his bakeoff he managed to fry someone's Linn Classik by shorting the speaker wires together, but no matter, James was a likeable chap and it was easy to forgive his mistakes.

Year three and James was a changed man. Suddenly he had "seen the light" about cables and tweaks, so that became his entire Mantra from then on. He became the biggest anti-foo protagonist and while I didn't particularly mind that, it was the offensiveness in which that Mantra was delivered with, that I had serious issues with. No longer the ordinary hi-fi enthusiast that I knew at the beginning, willing to share his experiences with others, he was on an ego trip being the "forum owner" and had become a total bully from that position.

From then until now it has been downhill all the way for me and his bigotry has got worse and worse - as anyone who read his recent rant about public sector workers will testify.

In summary then, if the wigwam was originally conceived to be a spit and sawdust four ale bar, with disgusting language being used, overt racism and misogyny, condoned bullying and abuse, then as you say I would have steered well clear from the outset, or not allowed it to be created in the first place had I known that the "owner" would turn it into a bear pit of the worst kind, his personal playground for his inflated ego.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I don't belive there would be enough interest in each city to get 50 different systems and hundreds of paying punters to make it break even.

50 systems was only just managed at scalford.

Why does it have to be so large, are domestic bake-off that large, in that case do people not enjoy them. This type of event can be scaled up or down at will.

[Marco]

Guys,

I've been out all day, so have missed this discussion, and am shocked to hear of what's happened to Wigwam. I'm having a read through the thread now and will comment in due course.

However, just one quick point....

Let's not turn this into a Wigwam slagging match (as the nature of some of the posts here have indicated - and indeed if there are any more of these, they will be deleted), but rather offer our collective thoughts as to how we (AoS) can help with what is obviously a very difficult situation for some.

Ok, so let's keep it friendly, and I will comment further, as soon as I have read the thread properly

Marco.