Marc Phillips of the Anti-Direct Drive League: Does he know his stuff or is he BS?

[Epicurus]

Today, I came across a 2006 posting of said Rega nut and I wonder if the guy's off his rocker or what:

http://www.furious.com/perfect/vinyl53.html

Especially this bit:

"What direct-drive means is that the motor which spins the platter is directly coupled to the spindle. The advantages to such a design is that speed variation is reduced dramatically, which is a good thing. The disadvantage is that the motor vibrates, and the vibrations go right up the spindle, onto the platter, through the record itself, and right to the stylus. No one really makes direct-drive turntables anymore because we all know they suck. All of you who still think records are noisy, and that they pop and click too much ... you were probably listening on a direct-drive turntable."

Seriously, he doesn't know a thing about engineering; if he did, he'd understand that motors that have no reciprocating parts (i.e. electric motors) do not vibrate or produce negligible vibrations and, of course, a rotary engine (such as the Wankels used in Mazda's RX series of cars) produce far fewer vibrations than piston engines (Otto, Diesel or Atkinson cycles).

Really, I'm sick and tired of every idiot that has never bothered to study the slightest bit about mechanics and yet has the nerve to tell us that what science and experience has taught us is wrong and his dogma is right. Anonymous would easily draw parallels between Tom Cruise's choice of superstition and belt drive.

[audio39]

Hi Epicurus,

Electric motors do vibrate...in industry we run vibration routes on all of our large and/or expensive motors.

The issue to me is that even in a belt drive the platter is turning on a bearing or bushing...meaning some level of vibration. The belt is pulling the spindle from one side and therefore wear is occurring on one side of the bushing much more than the other, definitely not good. The belts themselves induce a level of vibration for goodness sake.

At the end of the day this has been debated and investigated ad nauseum...the "for" crowd have always reported no audible artifacts present due to the DD motor, the "opposing" group of course finding the opposite.

At the end of the day...this guy is a goof who should stick to listening to music and leave the engineering to the Engineers!

[Reid Malenfant]

Electric motors do vibrate...in industry we run vibration routes on all of our large and/or expensive motors.

I'll agree with that 100%, even with dynamic balancing...

However what we are talking about here with a DD motor is a maximum rotational speed of 78RPM if modified & as standard a maximum of 45RPM, not the kind of speeds that belt drive motors are spinning at or industrial motors for that matter

Even if the motor was miraculously out of balance the forces produced at these speeds are going to be orders of magnitude lower than a motor spinning 20 or more times as fast

As the motor isn't being loaded by a belt pulling things with a sideways force there should be less ware & less friction resulting in even less cause for generating any kind of vibration

That bloke is talking out of his arse, & that's being polite E2A:- I did read the whole artical earlier on so i think i can draw my own conclusions from his cobblers

[audio39]

Agreed.

[tommy6206]

Well he talks a load of bollox. A Rega fanboy

[John]

People like this come up with theories to juistfy what they have, best to leave him with his illusions

[Marco]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..... Thanks for that, Konstantinos - I've not laughed so much in ages!

And I've heard Technics turntables on several occasions, and I think they sound flat, lifeless, and downright boring compared to a decent belt-drive turntable.

Yesh, I just love the flat, lifeless, sound of my Techie, compared to a Rega - oh yes, indeedy!!

That bloke is one serious A-hole, and full of more shit than the most diarrhoea-ridden nappy. There's so much pish written there that it would take the baddest and fattest Tena for Men to mop it all up. I could spend hours gettin' jiggy with his delusions.......

*But*, I think the best course of action is to send him a link to the Analogue Art section of this forum

Marc, you have mail!

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

It is strange how there seems to be a lot of polarisation in the hifi world - valves vs. solid state, bookshelf vs. standmount (etc.) analogue vs. digital etc. etc. etc. - and belt vs DD is just another example. Of course the truth is that in every case neither is right - much more important is how any given type of technology is implemented, and there will always be excellent and poor products based around the same ideology.

Of course the real right answer is that idler drives are better than both DD or belt drive!

[Marco]

You may be interested to know, I've received this reply to my email from Marc:

Hi Marco,

Well, it seems you guys have stumbled onto a 2006 article of mine that does not address the many subsequent articles that I wrote for TONEAudio and others about the SL1200. But you guys aren't the first group of "technical-minded" individuals who can't research correctly and draw conclusions from a small sample size. Why do you think that is?

I know. Because the real engineers in the field back up what I say, and the pseudo-audio guys who are tone deaf enough to prefer the 1200 to premium belt-drive designs whine and complain about me criticizing your purchasing decisions.

Fact: I have completed many double-blind comparisons with the Technics and the Rega. I've ran a few more DBTs with others. The 1200 never wins.
Fact: I have achieved decent sound from a 1200...after replacing the arm, the armboard and installing an outboard power supply and using cartridges that cost more than the 1200 itself.
Fact: I have gone on record as stating that many direct drive TTs do sound good, but at a significant price.

All I see in that forum is a lot of name calling and no real science. Sorry, but I can't take you and your friends seriously. I did my homework. I owned a 1200 for two years and I couldn't wait to get rid of it. But you guys go ahead and enjoy your crappy-sounding TTs. I moved on a long time ago.

Marc

Looks like we've touched a raw nerve!

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

All I see in that forum is a lot of name calling and no real science.

This bloke really is having a laugh, frankly i doubt he'd know science if it gave him a black eye

What a total plonker

I think he needs to explain the science behind his rubber bands before dissing real & not perceived differences between TTs

Nuff said, i rest my case