Progression?

**John** · 12-09-2010, 19:02

Some great post guys really enjoying reading this. Lots of good debate and thoughts
I do believe most of us have fallen victim to the power of marketing (myself included)

**Steve Eddy** · 12-09-2010, 19:27

Originally Posted by Marco

Awesome, Steve - I think that should be post of the year! I am in entire agreement

Thank you for the kind words.

If I win, do I get a trophy? Should I prepare a speech?

There are so many bits I could highlight, but with this you and I are so much on the same wavelength, it's untrue:

It's twoo! It's twoo!

se

**Marco** · 12-09-2010, 19:31

If I win, do I get a trophy? Should I prepare a speech?

Yesh, you get an extra-shpeshial prize specially 'administered' by me at the AoS Christmas party....

Marco.

**Steve Eddy** · 12-09-2010, 19:36

Originally Posted by John

Some great post guys really enjoying reading this. Lots of good debate and thoughts I do believe most of us have fallen victim to the power of marketing (myself included)

Yes. It pervades and invades every part of our lives these days.

And the big boys spend big bucks on research to figure out how better to get into our psyche to more effectively manipulate us.

We are to them little more than a bunch of Pavlov's dogs.

se

**Steve Eddy** · 12-09-2010, 19:38

Originally Posted by Marco

Yesh, you get an extra-shpeshial prize specially 'administered' by me at the AoS Christmas party....

Oooooo! I hope it involves a lot of latex and leather!

se

**anthonyTD** · 12-09-2010, 20:00

hi all,
well,,, my main reasons for prefrence to hard wireing valve amps are quite simple, i choose the wire, i choose the length of the tracks, i choose what crosses what, ie; i choose the layout! also valve amps run hot, especialy class A !!! And as has already been pointed out,,, printed circuit boards dont take kindly to repeated heating and cooling, eventualy they can start acting like thermistors, ie,conducting voltages from sources you dont want! using thick copper wire as i do absorbs heat out of components connected to them and disperses it to air, PCB designs tend to hold heat and therefore can subject components to constant heat reducing their life expectancy.
there are other reasons why i think hard wireing valve circuits is better such as vibration etc,,, but i think i have made my point. however,,,my prefrence for hard wiring does not mean that i am totaly against PCB designs, far from it, some of my best designs are printed circuits,ie; the soul power amps and soul-mate preamps etc. i just like to be in control of how my designs are laid out and what type of board materials are used, also the quality of board material and copper thickness is very important to me, and
thats why i now design all my own PCB's
anthony,TD...

**anthonyTD** · 12-09-2010, 20:15

also,
as for us "liking distortion" that is only partly true, 2nd order or even harmonics yes, our ears actualy produce it, as for 3rd and higher orders ie, 5th 7th 9th etc, even small amounts are objectionable, that is why for eg we can tolerate badly designed single ended triode amplifiers producing sometimes in excess of 10%[low order] distortion and forgive them for it for the benefits they bring in musicality...
anthony,TD.

**Jonboy** · 12-09-2010, 20:35

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy

That's why I think some of the best vintage gear out there can ultimately be more satisfying than the most modern offerings.

They didn't worry about the cellular structure of the leaves. They got the basics right and they kept things relatively simple.

Well put Steve, the best sounds are of the old School designs, Williams, Radford etc

**Sahib** · 12-09-2010, 20:35

Originally Posted by Ali Tait

Hi Celmal,
Good points and I don't disagree,but I think a good point was raised about the overuse of compression in modern recordings in order to make them as loud as possible.It destroys the dynamic range and renders a lot of stuff unlistenable IMO.

I don't use vinyl,I use a SB Touch and it sounds great,particularly with good 24/96 files.I have noted though that all the best sounding music I have is 20 or more years old,the very best being a Duke Ellington 24/96 I just downloaded on Friday.It sounds stunningly good,and nothing modern I've heard,hi rez or otherwise,comes close.

Hi Ali,

I agree with you on today's music production in general. I am definitely not taking sides but just being objective from both the technical and artistic point of view.

The use of compressor to the degree of "squashed to hell" is a result of a trend but then again we do not follow it anyway. I'd love to rant on this subject but this is the wrong thread. Some other time.

@Steve,

Agreed. Seems I said it was the only option. My bad.

However, I still disgaree with the claim that we did not progress in design and manufacture. We did. Even the cheapest equipment today has got built in quality compared to its price, which was not possible to achieve say thirty years ago. I am not condoning mp3 here but to get the surround sound from a 29.99 mp3 device in 70s would be unthinkable. Or in 80s it would require a second mortgage to buy it.

I think we are missing the fact that we belong to a certain generation. I believe an 18 year old today gets exactly the same excitement from his/her mp3 that we got from our turntables when we were younger. That's the way it is. My nephew couldn't give a toss about vinyl. Even the CD is an obselete object for him and he is quite happy listening to his music from his PC.

We may be thinking that they are missing something. To a degree it is true, in the way that our fathers thought we were missing a lot of things.

**anthonyTD** · 12-09-2010, 20:39

Originally Posted by Sahib

Hi Ali,

I agree with you on today's music production in general. I am definitely not taking sides but just being objective from both the technical and artistic point of view.

The use of compressor to the degree of "squashed to hell" is a result of a trend but then again we do not follow it anyway. I'd love to rant on this subject but this is the wrong thread. Some other time.

@Steve,

Agreed. Seems I said it was the only option. My bad.

However, I still disgaree with the claim that we did not progress in design and manufacture. We did. Even the cheapest equipment today has got built in quality compared to its price, which was not possible to achieve say thirty years ago. I am not condoning mp3 here but to get the surround sound from a 29.99 mp3 device in 70s would be unthinkable. Or in 80s it would require a second mortgage to buy it.

I think we are missing the fact that we belong to a certain generation. I believe an 18 year old today gets exactly the same excitement from his/her mp3 that we got from our turntables when we were younger.

That's the way it is. My nephew couldn't give a toss about vinyl. Even the CD is an obselete object for him and he is quite happy listening to his music from his PC.

We may be thinking that they are missing something. To a degree it is true, in the way that our fathers thought we were missing a lot of things.

Thread: Progression?

Thread Tools

Display

Posting Permissions