PC+Caiman DAC = Clicking noise at right channel output

[Alex_UK]

I only really use USB for basic internet radio and Spotify, or iTunes, no clicking problems at all - can't help other than to confirm you are a rarity! (I'm wondering if the Caiman is faulty, tbh, given the problem moves from laptop to laptop.)

[sum1]

you haven't got fade ins/outs turned on have you ? or your windows sounds turned on ?

I'm thinking that the switch of sample rates as it jumps from Foobar back to windows is causing it somehow?

I'd be thinking of sending it back by now to be honest, I had a Caiman for a few days to play with and used it via usb with foobar. I had no clicks at all.

I did not use any fade in/outs. As for windows sounds i've tried disabling them but sadly it did not make any difference.

If i live in the UK i would definitely send it back but unfortunately a quote for the postage fee from here in Australia to the UK will cost me ~GBP50 which is pretty big so its best for me to determine first if its a defect that is on my Caiman or its something else.

Hi Sonny,

perhaps you could try with another Caiman to be sure where the problem comes from. There's no-one living near you having one ?

Unfortunately i dont know anyone living near me that has a caiman.
Dimitri, did you end up getting the m2tech hiface. If so how does it work with the caiman playing 24/96 File. My experience of it is pretty bad with the clicking noise. You can get some free 24/96 file here in http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

PS: Sonny

I checked the specification ** of the Caiman, and found the following:

"The USB input supports 32, 44.1, and 48 kHz sample rates. Maximum word length is 16-bits."
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Yep i am aware of that. The PCM2902 in the caiman is limited to 48khz. I got my laptop inbuilt toslink and the m2tech hiface as a high res transport

(I'm wondering if the Caiman is faulty, tbh, given the problem moves from laptop to laptop.)

I do have my suspicion on it being defective as well but i am just curious that if its defective then how come it works fine with the CD Player. So far I've actually only tried one cd player only with it and i might just try to see the problem is there with some other transport like a playstation or xbox to see if the problem is there.
Also when i ask Stan about this problem his reply sounded like this is more like a transport problem and there are others who experience this problem as well which confuses me again if its something that is normal or not


Seems like no here ever heard this clicking noise huh. I might just make a recording of it later on and upload it somewhere online so that you can have a listen to it and see if its something recognisable. I am just wondering if maybe its because its clipping but then again i dont really know what a clipping noise sound like. When i ask Stan on email about it his repl

[MaCs]

I have exactly the same problem (clicks on one channel with 24 bit files). I also use a Beresford Caiman. Everything is fine with 16 bits. I wonder if it could be related with the signal from the computer. I use onboard spdif signal from an Asus P6T SE motherboard. It has the Realtek ALC1200 audio chip.

[MaCs]

I do have my suspicion on it being defective as well but i am just curious that if its defective then how come it works fine with the CD Player. So far I've actually only tried one cd player only with it and i might just try to see the problem is there with some other transport like a playstation or xbox to see if the problem is there.

My guess is that it works fine with the CD player because it is 16 bit signal.

[dave2010]

I'm still working on this. I've downloaded some of the hi-res files from the site (2L) mentioned earlier. I have managed to play them, and they sound very good, though a couple of files seem to present my network with problems causing buffering. It is I suppose possible that my Squeezebox will tinker with the bits and the sample rate - but whatever it does it sounds pretty good. I'm slightly suspicious as I've also manged to play a 192kHz file, which might be outside the spec of the Squeezebox, and should definitely be outside the spec of the Caiman, so either the manuals are lying, or the data got downsampled somewhere along the way - but what did that?

Next test is to see what they're like out of the USB interface. No sign of any clicks though. [Just tried this - no sign of clicks, though sound maybe a bit hard. On my machine the USB is via the driver which I believe restricts the data to 16 bits.]

I could also revisit DVD-A, which I think is at 24/96. I have several DVD-As which I've played before via the Caiman. They sound great, and unless the DVD player is doing something unexpected, they should defiinitely be 24 bit 96 kHz, or similarly high resolution.

SACD isn't feasible, because of the d*** silly restriction on the digital output. If I had an AV receiver with HDMI it might be possible to do something - though probably just couldn't actually pass through a signal to the Caiman. Not sure if it's possible to do anything with computers which have HDMI to get round this.

To date I've not heard any clicks - which I assume are not just minor ticks, and which I hope are frequent enough that I'd notice within minutes. It's starting to look to me as though you have a specific problem with your unit or configuration.

If you were in the UK I'd suggest going to see Stan, or at least discussing this on the phone, but clearly you have a problem with that. You could try phoning him on Skype though. There has to be some way of getting a diagnosis on this - and then you could decide whether to try again with another one, or have it sent back for repair/modification or some other strategy. If it works OK on some data, then sell it on eBay to someone who doesn't need the highest level of resolution, and get another one sent out.

[sum1]

I have exactly the same problem (clicks on one channel with 24 bit files). I also use a Beresford Caiman. Everything is fine with 16 bits. I wonder if it could be related with the signal from the computer. I use onboard spdif signal from an Asus P6T SE motherboard. It has the Realtek ALC1200 audio chip.

Ah finally there is someone other than me that hear this as well. Actually your experience is exactly the same the one here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4670

My fix for the clicking sound is not as easy as choosing 24/16 bit its more like choosing the spdif converter for it. On my laptop the Creative XtremeAudio notebook produces no click at all with the caiman even with 24/96 file although the sound of it i think is worst than the realtek spdif output.

I'm still working on this. I've downloaded some of the hi-res files from the site (2L) mentioned earlier. I have managed to play them, and they sound very good, though a couple of files seem to present my network with problems causing buffering. It is I suppose possible that my Squeezebox will tinker with the bits and the sample rate - but whatever it does it sounds pretty good. I'm slightly suspicious as I've also manged to play a 192kHz file, which might be outside the spec of the Squeezebox, and should definitely be outside the spec of the Caiman, so either the manuals are lying, or the data got downsampled somewhere along the way - but what did that?


To date I've not heard any clicks - which I assume are not just minor ticks, and which I hope are frequent enough that I'd notice within minutes. It's starting to look to me as though you have a specific problem with your unit or configuration.

Thanks for trying out all the stuff Dave, appreciate it. If you are interested on hearing what the click is like i've uploaded a recording of my caiman output http://www.mediafire.com/?ynninzwlj3j
You can hear the click at around 0:13, 0:15 and 1:01 mark. That recording was done with USB -> caiman connection. The clicking is kinda weird actually as when i've tried different connection interface the volume of the clicking sound varies. The usb connection clicking sound is actually not that bad when compared to the clicking connection with the m2tech hiface


Actually i've tried started trying using it on my older xp laptop again and give the caiman usb and ASIO a try. Did not spend to much time about it but i think the click issue might have been reduced/disappear. ASIO/KS/DS did not do much difference on my Vista laptop but it might play nicely with XP system.

Sadly though the m2tech hiface still produces click sound with caiman on either the xp or vista system. I wonder what other m2tech hiface + caiman users experiences are. I know there are some member here who have both the caiman and m2tech hiface, maybe i should pm them

I'm not exactly sure what i stand here in terms of warranty support since i've opened the dac and swap opamps to investigate this clicking noise and to try the sound changes.

[HighFidelityGuy]

I've had some similar sounding problems in the past and I use a PC as main source.
I used to get occasional clicks or pops through the speakers with 16bit 44.1KHz files but lots of them with 24bit 96KHz files. This was when I was using some cheapo plastic core optical cables. Switching to a Mark Grant coax cable stopped the problem. I've since tried a Mark Grand glass core optical cable that also doesn't suffer from the problem. I put it down to the cheapo cables simply not having enough bandwidth to cope with the high bit rate signals and causing dropouts.

Mark's cables are very good value for the quality they offer, so I'd try one of his in whatever type you need and see if that helps. He offers a money back guarantee so there's no risk.

I'd also recommend checking the various settings on your PC like others have mentioned.

[Vincent Kars]

If the problem is caused by a mute signal send to the DAC, it might by a matter of the Realtek drivers (or the Hiface but the clicks caused by the Hiface drivers seems OSX releated)
The default Vista drivers simply leave the DAC on all of the time.
What I did on my system
•System: Make a restore point (this allows you to roll back)
•Device manager: deinstall the driver (note type etc just in case you need to download them from the Realtek website again)
•Programs - remove the driver (if you don’t it will be reinstalled in the next step)
•Reboot and Vista installs the MS High Def Audio Device.
YMMV, at your own risk, etc
A couple of configuration tips:
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/VistaTweak.htm

[StanleyB]

Any chance of getting a copy of the original 96bit file so I can try to re-create the problem?

[MaCs]

Ah finally there is someone other than me that hear this as well. Actually your experience is exactly the same the one here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4670

Yes, I have exactly the same problem. I found that an easy way to test it is to go to on the audio device properties dialog. There you have the "advanced statistics" tab where you can choose the default sampling and resolution. You can choose a setting and click on the test button to hear what it sounds like. 16 bit works well but as soon as I select 24 bit (at any sampling rate), It does not work right. The first test sound (corresponding to the right channel) is often wrong (but not always).

I tested with another computer that uses a different Realtek chip and it behaves the same. So I really suspect this is a problem with the Caiman.