Digital replay. Have I experienced an epiphany, or just a healthy dose of reality?

[Marco]

LOL. Indeed, Tony. That's 'cos it is. But the Sony is far from alone - there are others of its ilk from CD's golden era, which has long since passed

You can't beat a well implemented TDA1541 S1 or S2, as concurred by many discerning music lovers and audiophiles. The battleship build transport is just the icing on the cake

Marco.

[Filterlab]

Rob,

Thanks for the reply, that was point, your DAC has an ASRC inside it, which ever way you look at it is manipulating the base signal by adding (usually 9 bits of dither) and rolling around the sampling freq, to hide the nasties (most modern dac's and cdp's do this, so I am not singling yours out honest!).

Indeed. Oddly though, some tracks sound a lot better once they've been mucked about with digitally. My favourite group is Air - they're stuff sounds great once it's been imported at 24/48 (from a CD), reverted and then upsampled to an output of 24/48 and then upsampled again to 24/192 by the DAC. As I've said before, maybe it's similar to the effect of a valve producing harmonic distortion. Then again a lot of music sounds better being imported at 16/44.1 and output at 16/44.1

However most studio recordings are done at 32 bit and 384khz or 24bit/192khz (Raw formats). If you use these high res formats into your dac you will be grinning for ear to ear.

I must dig further into this stuff, there's so much to computer audio to discover (and it's fun along the way!), even better if it gets me grinning!

Rob,

Try these also http://www.itrax.com/

Cheers, I'll have a look!

[Marco]

My favourite group is Air - they're stuff sounds great once it's been imported at 24/48 (from a CD), reverted and then upsampled to an output of 24/48 and then upsampled again to 24/192 by the DAC.

Mmm... I'm not saying I wouldn't like your DAC, Rob, but I do know that I dislike the effect of up-sampling. To my ears the process produces an effect which makes music sound unnatural and 'processed' by enveloping it in an artificial 'sheen', which makes everything sound 'nice' regardless if it is meant to sound nice or not. Up-sampling CDPs/DACs appear (based on my experience so far) to trade solidity and 'grit' for superficial detail retrieval and 'hi-fi nicety'.

I'm not saying that's how your DAC sounds, because I haven't heard it, but it's the reason why I dislike DCS players, for example, as they use up-sampling and to my ears all possess the sonic signature I have described. I like the presentation of plain old 'vanilla' Red Book CD/digital done well with no buggering about with the signal or 'artificial additives' added, which for me always sounds more natural and 'solid'. Straight Red Book ticks less hi-fi boxes, for sure, but for me its effect is infinitely more musical.

Even over-sampling has a detrimental effect on the music, IMO. If you listen to an Audio Note CDP, for example, which features no over-sampling or up-sampling, and compare it to one which does, the sonic signature/musical presentation of both is entirely different. The AN CDP is not perfect, far from it, but its way with music is more natural and realistic even if it’s a little rough around the edges, IMO.

'Keep it simple stupid' is a phrase that I feel suits hi-fi perfectly on many occasions. As they say less is often more...

Marco.

[Filterlab]

...produces an effect which makes music sound unnatural and 'processed' by enveloping it in an artificial 'sheen'...

That's Air's style though.

[Marco]

I have to definitely agree with you Marco. There is nothing like the tactility of a music collection, certainly putting a record on has a real sense of occasion, moreso than a CD player. Of course this is lost completely with a computer...

I think this is why (in general) computer audio often appeals more to the 'science types' than more artistic types like you or I, as all these guys seem to be interested in is the noughts and ones being present and correct, and not the emotional connection between music and the listener - it's just a 'sound' to them, and why I could never relate to Ashley or JC's type of mentality. They seem to assess sound (and hi-fi) in the way of an emotionless computer instead of as normal human beings. Maybe they're really robots?

Marco.

[Filterlab]

Could you please rephrase that in binary.

As I mentioned earlier, I will revert to 16/44.1 in and out this evening, give things another listen.

[Marco]

That's Air's style though.

Yeah, but you don't want all your albums sounding like Air!

Incidentally, I can't stop playing 'Moon Safari' after buying the 10th anniversary special edition. It reminded me of how bloody good it is

Marco.

[Filterlab]

Yeah, but you don't want all your albums sounding like Air!

Why not? I like them.

You're right of course, which is why I must experiment further. The whole computer audio thing is deep and massively variable in so many ways.

Incidentally, I can't stop playing 'Moon Safari' after buying the 10th anniversary special edition. It reminded me of how bloody good it is

I must get hold of this, has it been remastered?

[Marco]

I'm not sure, mate. I'll have to read the notes. However the recording does seem to be better than the original album I bought years ago.

Regarding your DAC comparisons, I wouldn't come to any definitive conclusions either way. Like you say, there are many variables to consider. Also, your Apogee may have been configured (in terms of design) to sound best in up-sampling mode. I believe Steve prefers a halfway house between the two with his Bel Canto, which may have as much to do with the particular presentation of his system than anything else. I suspect though that the only true way to compare the effect of both processes is to A/B/A your DAC in up-sampling mode against my DAS-R1 or some other genuine Red Book design in the same system. And there is also the implementation of both processes by the manufacturer to consider, which has a huge influence on the final sound.

Perhaps you could bring your Apogee with you for your forthcoming visit?

Marco.

[Filterlab]

I dunno, weighs a tonne.

Yeah, I'll bring it along and you can have a listen. It'll handle pretty much everything that's thrown at it (in terms of signal).