http://www.dialsoundlight.co.uk/d-commerce/page10.html
A new lid is £33 which is about €42.
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http://www.dialsoundlight.co.uk/d-commerce/page10.html
A new lid is £33 which is about €42.
Steve,
Thanks for that link.
I cleaned up the lid, it's got some micro scratches. THe lid is pretty soft on the SL1210, There has to be a higher quality solution somewhere, but the lid can wait
Peter
Hi Peter,
I missed your reply below because I sent my last post one minute after yours :)
The Garrard is a thing of beauty and for that reason I wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of it. It's still a classic.Quote:
Just getting the PS and the tonearm rewire organised. enfin, ordered at least. Spent most of the day re-organising the kit. The Naim stuff is almost all on one stack, the SL1210 and the phono stage on it's own stand. Can't run two tables at the same time; my Garrard is a thing of beauty but it's now being confined to the cellar until a resurrection some day.
Yep, the 1210 is a joy to use. No pissing about with bloody rubber bands (and the sonic limitations they impose). Touch button speed change is also so much more practical.Quote:
The strong points are immediately obvious, solid constuction, no bloody wobbly bits to go out of kilter. Ease of use that audiophools have long forgotten about, almost instant Start and Stop.
I totally agree. The rock-solid pitch and timing is a by-product of the almost totally accurate speed stability; something which 'rubber band' decks could only dream of achieving. I now can't listen to most belt-drive T/Ts as the levels of wow and flutter they induce, and how this manifests itself on the music, gets on my nerves. The thing is you don't realise there's anything wrong with belt-drives until you hear a good direct-drive T/T - it's an effect that only becomes obvious when your ears are attuned to the difference. I am somewhat surprised though at just how quickly your 401 has been retired!Quote:
Musically it stuffs any beltdrive wobbledeck I've ever heard. Why ? Because it doesn't tell any lies about pitch or timing! For me that's really the heart and soul of the music. It only took me 5 minutes to decide to retire the Garrard 401/Bastin plinth psu/Spacearm.
I know exactly where you're coming from. The top Naim CDPs have a natural 'ease' about them that makes their handling of all genres of music thoroughly convincing and addictive (the 555PS is special, but it should be!) The 1210 does a similar thing in that music simply washes over you with an effortless quality and little sense that it's being processed in any way. The deck never seems to be under stress no matter how complex the music is being played.Quote:
A friend has a CDS3/555PS based system. What the SL1210 does, reminds me of that. That is, it keeps everything in perfect order, whilst still allowing all the naturalness and life to come through.
Great stuff, and that's exactly how I felt when I first got my 1210 - and how I continue to feel now! I hope there are plenty of good record shops in Paris because, trust me, your compulsion to play vinyl now will be greater than ever :gig:Quote:
I've not had so much fun with LP for months, maybe years.
Enjoy!
Marco.
I just can't bring myself to sell the Garrard, it needs a dignified setting. But I don't have the space to have it set up in permanence, and as you so succintly put;Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Quote:
The 1210 is a joy to use.
Henry Cooper was a great Boxer, but then came Mohammed Ali.Quote:
I am somewhat surprised though at just how quickly your 401 has been retired!
I think the 555PS with a CDS3 is great, but it's overkill for a CDX(2), I didn't like the effect it had. Digressing a little, I was looking at notching up the Naim ladder but audionning the suspects at the next level didn't find any wothwhile improvements and it meant mucho dinero too.Quote:
The top Naim CDPs have a natural 'ease' about them that makes their handling of all genres of music thoroughly convincing and addictive (the 555PS is special, but it should be!)
On the otherhand a listen to an SL1210, admittedly at home, and I was convinced. As Gromit put it, its a wake up call. I can already here a voice saying there's gotta be stuff that has all the Naim virtures and be a lot cheaper. Those are dangerous thoughts, although a 1 box CD player equal to a CDX/XPS or better would be nice. The missus would be glad of less box clutter. Especially if it could be had for peanuts.
Well, I did order two LPs this week, which is more than I ordered for the last year. I do have a real problem for LP storage.Quote:
Great stuff ...I hope there are plenty of good record shops in Paris because, trust me, your compulsion to play vinyl now will be greater than ever
cheers
Peter
I've just ordered an Acromat but at the moment I'm baulking at the SDS jobbie, £85 seems a wee bit steep TBH. The deck only cost me £80! :scratch:
Anyone got a spare I can try? ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shian7
Looked at that way, it certainly is excessive; i'm still :scratch: my head about the £400 service I had done on my Garrard (by Slatedeck, it was the ultra deluxe bring everything up to impeccable and add the bearing mod service and included a sizeable sum for shipping) and the fact the SL1210 I just bought cost half that.
I ordered the SDS isoplatmat directly from the Very Nice Lady at SoundDeadSteel. You're maybe in their backyard, they're in Northumberland, perhaps the Nice Lady would let you have one from the factory door? There's no distributor for SDS in France, is it only Origin Live that sells them in the UK ? I'll post my verdict asap.
The Achromat is cheaper ?
regards
Peter
Mikey, what are you bothering with Isoplatmats for when your deck's not even up and running yet! :lolsign:
I'd lend you mine no problem but I fear I might not see it again for quite a while by the time the deck's surfaced from its box and the platter is in a position to rotate and play music via your D.I.Y phono stage :lol:
;)
Marco.
P.S Peter, I dealt with the very same lady.
I'm getting very good results with the SRM/Tech acrylic mat (£35 inc P&P), which is excellent for metal platters & effectively damps ringing. Looks f*cking cool too ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shian7
link
Yom,
How heavy is the SRM? The point is it needs to be of high mass (and the right material) to dampen the resonance in the platter, which is quite considerable with a 1210 when no mat is in place. That's why a thick rubber mat is supplied with the deck, although as we all know this sounds shit hence why the use of Isoplatmats and/or Achromats is necessary. It's not a glass platter we're talking about, which it seems the SRM was primarily designed for.
The Isoplatmat is pretty heavy so for the SRM to work properly on a 1210 it needs to be at least as heavy or as heavy as the stock thick rubber mat. However if it's not as heavy it could be used to interface with the record instead of an Achromat, in conjunction with an Isoplatmat.
Marco.
It weighs 250gm and is designed for alloy or glass platters. I don't use it any other mats. Flicking the SL1210 platter without the acrylic mat or with a felt mat definitely makes it ring, but flicking with the acrylic mat on gives a dull thudding sound without any hint of ringing at all - my test material consisting of my nails & ears right close to the platter lol.
The Isoplatmat weighs 475g, which is considerably heavier, although without comparing both I've got no idea which one dampens the platter more. From your description it seems the SRM is doing a pretty good job. Which mat improves the sound more overall is of course also open to question. Anyway, regardless, the SRM appears to be another viable option to consider.
Marco.
Two points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
1. The rubber mat is rubbish.
2. It IS out of the box and running! :ner:
Erm, fair point about the phono stage though, the deck may be running but theres still no music yet. :(
I didn't realise you'd found the energy to lift it out and plug it in - nice one! :eyebrows:
It was the third point I was of course referring to. When you're in a position to judge the effect of mats give me a shout and I'll fire off the Isoplatmat for you to try :smoking:
Marco.
Ta.... I'll let you know! ;)
No worries. I seem to be the resident Technics T/T accessories on-loan service these days :)
Marco.
About bloomin time! :doh: :lolsign:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shian7
One point, how do you know the rubber mat is rubbish if you've not played anything yet...:scratch:
Don't be too dismissive about the original mat. I've tied many combinations of mats on that deck, my Lenco and the SP10 and whilst it comes down to personal choice in the end, on all of them the original mat stayed! I tried so many I lost count including DIY versions, the Isoplatmat, the Achromat, cork etc.
The Lenco sounded best with the original mat and a layer of that anti slip matting for plates on top. I found the deck you have was best with the original mat and a cork one on top.
Others have found the Garrards also benefit from keeping the original mat so don't be too dismissive! I know you'll have fun experimenting! (Watchout for changes in VTA due to excessive thick mats ;) )
Hi Neal,
You're of course entitled to your opinion but, no offence, if you think the stock rubber mat supplied with the SL-1210 is anything other than crap when compared to an Isoplatmat or Achromat then I'm seriously worried about your ears and/or the sonic signature of your system!! All it does is muddy the sound, cork or no cork :confused:
Marco.
Ok, I'll confess. I'm 'judging a book by its cover' to a fair extent, and going on (long) past experience. I've never been a fan of rubber mats in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
BUT!... If I don't get hold of something for comparison I'll never know! ;)
Hi Marco,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
If one took a basic 1210, what in terms of upgrades makes the most difference on the sound quality ladder?....Sit aside the arm mods - I'm more interested in a SME or modded Rega arm sat on the motor unit....How much difference does the p/s make?....I noticed in one thread either here or at PFM that Richard (Dunn) had mentioned he was looking at making a p/s for a TT....His products seem to be well priced and easily available, unlike KAB across the pond....Even though I have contacts well placed over there, customs are a wild card...I tend to ask many (on the surface stupid questions) and then quietly go and make my purchase without a lot of fanfare....I'm not sure I can do this with a TT, simply because messing around with tonearms and cartridges is not my normal hunting ground....so even more stupid questions on the horizon....
Sweeping and dismissive statement! My ears and system are just fine, thank you :mental: As you weren't present during my mat experiments you would not be aware of the results. I've not heard the 1210 so can't comment but I found the original mat on all the three decks I had at the time damped the platter best and in combination with others provided the best sound. So :ner:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Please don't get into a mat spat :lol:, what next Stand wars ? :mental:
I had a foam mat (NAS ?) over the rubber mat of my 401, I think I should dig it out and try it over the stock rubber mat of the Teccie.
My apologies, Neal. I mistakenly thought you had carried out your mat experiments on a 1210. It kind of read that way when you wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
I presumed you were referring to the 1210, but you were of course referring to Mike's SL-120. However both decks use pretty much the same platter do they not? Therefore I would have thought results would be similar...Quote:
I've tied many combinations of mats on that deck...
Anyway, I certainly don't wish to belittle your findings. It's just that I was rather surprised by your assertion that rubber mats of any description are good when this is diametrically opposed to my own experience not just on a 1210 but on every other deck I have owned.
For me, rubber mats, particularly thick ones, always seem to muddy/dull the sound, reduce dynamics, and make for a 'thick', 'plodding' type of presentation. I don't seem to be alone in this view as almost everyone else I know who's bought a 1210 has ditched the rubber mat in favour of something else. The rubber mats are certainly not supplied for any reasons of sound quality - they're just cheaper to make.
Hey, like they say, I guess it would be a boring world if we were all the same! :lolsign:
Marco.
Just been having a couple of days playing with this...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_2146.jpg
All I'll say for now is that it's one hell of a turntable - the 1210's got more than just a small fight on its hands. Just a shame the Pioneer's not mine. :(
Yes, I know, I've read all about it on PFM where you chose to post it first! Traitor ;)
Only kidding... (A bit) haha.
Yep it looks like a very fine deck, Richard. I'm not surprised that it's good and is giving the 1210 a hard time. It wasn't just Technics that produced high quality D/D mechanisms in the 70s and 80s - all the Jap 'big boys' done it. You could find similar (and perhaps even better) examples from Denon, Marantz, Sony, Trio, and many others. The problem was most of them never seen the light of day in the UK and people here are only just now discovering them.
I love the tonearm - it looks like an Acos Lustre or a derivative of such. These were once made for Rega and put on their early decks before manufacturing their own tonearms. The RB250 and 300 were touted at the time as being an 'upgrade' but not in my opinion.
The Acos-sourced arm was a more solid (and nicer) piece of engineering and IMO sounded far better. It was yet another example of marketing triumphing over what actually performed best. Good luck to Rega, though, as a business decision it made perfect sense and the RB250 and 300 have since gone on to sell by their 1000s worldwide and become one of the most popular and most used tonearms in the world. I do think though that they are somewhat overrated even when modified by OL, Moth, etc. The stock Technics arm when suitably fettled in my experience outperforms both by a significant margin.
The only thing about decks like the Pioneer you're using is what do you do in the event of something going wrong with the motor unit? Do Pioneer still service them? Regardless of anything else that's always going to be the advantage with the 1210 as you will always be able to have it repaired if necessary. Also, I suspect that once you have the stock arm rewired on the 1210 and fit the off-board PSU (which I hope you will do as it transforms the deck's performance) your perceptions of both T/Ts will be somewhat different... :eyebrows:
Anyway, in the meantime have fun!
Marco.
I'd tend to disagree Marco - in fact back in 1985 I upgraded my then R200-equipped Planar 3 with the RB300 and never looked back. The increase in resolution, bass speed and all round improvement in detail (both in terms of what was coming through and musical nuance) was definitely on a higher level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Saying that, when I went from my fully-OL-modded RB250 on the Spacedeck to the Spacearm the change was not subtle. Possibly one of the biggest upgrades I've made in a long time.
I'd also love to hear the PL-71 with some upgrades applied - I'm simply using it as standard (with the Zu etc of course). It really does sound incredibly good as it is - better than the 1210? I would say a resounding yes to that...and then some. It's more dynamic, has (even) more bass control, more colour, more rhythmic information (and how it applies to musical phrase pattern), is smoother and better organised at the top end too. It presents a more musically satisfying and 'interesting' picture.
Richard,
Regarding the Acos/Rega thing I guess it's just a matter of taste and/or sonic signature of our partnering systems at the time when we were judging :)
I've never found Rega arms to be anything particularly special, except perhaps the RB1000, but even with that there are other arms at the price (or less) that I would rather use - the Hadcock being a case in point. I've always found Rega arms to be a bit bland and 'grey' sounding, lacking in tonal colour and expressiveness.
We are after all different in some respects with hi-fi as you like Lyras, whereas I find them too lean and somewhat 'toppy' sounding for my tastes, so perhaps the Acos-sourced Rega arm lent itself better to the DL-103 (a cartridge much more to my tastes than any Lyra) that I was using at the time, particularly as it had a detachable headshell where I could use an AT magnesium one to add mass which the Denon likes. The bigger AT headshell you've got now is exactly what I was using in those days - yes it's that old! :eyebrows:
I'm glad you're enjoying the Pioneer and your comments are very interesting. Like I said though, there's a hell of a lot more to come from the 1210 once the arm is fully fettled and you add the external PSU, so don't wet your pants too much yet! I'll be very interested to hear what your thoughts are on both decks when the 1210 is 'done and dusted', but you will probably have to give the Pioneer back to Mr Dunn by then ;)
Hey, just think if the PL-71 is making the 1210 sound 'shit', how 'shit' was the Spacedeck which the 1210 trounced!!! :lolsign:
Marco.
Marco - I'm very much looking forward to hearing how far the 1210 can go, especially with regard to the arm. I'm not overly worried about getting the psu done for the time being - that can wait for next year possibly (plus I don't want to wreck the thing with my DiY ineptitude!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I think one should be fair here - the NAS was never really trounced by the 1210. The NAS loses out in the bass most definitely (and it does have the best bass I've heard at home from a belt drive) but gains in terms of clarity and, at the moment, listenability plus it has a much lower noise floor - something which I noticed vs my previous Gyro. Saying that, in terms of sheer drive and sense of fun the Technics is very much ahead. And, I just love using the thing as it's so damn easy. :)
Oh...the Sumiko arrived this morning. Must get round to having a play with it. :)
Maybe that's correct used on their own but I used them in combination with other types to get the balance I wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I've heard Greg's (over on AT) Garard with just the OEM mat and its none the worse for it, Greg did the same experiments as me and concluded the original was best, he uses it 'as is' AFAIK.
Truth is none of the after market mats damped the platter well on any of the decks I tried, it still rang like a bell when tapped and I could detect a hardening in the mid and an edge to HF on all of them used in isolation but in combination they all improved giving slightly differing presentations....but there was certainly no muddle, that was one of the aspects of the sound I wanted to avoid as was any edge to the HF.
Peoples mileage will vary and its a very subjective choice in the end.
I thought I'd ordered the PSU & Arm upgrades from KAB, but they haven't got back to me with a shipping quote. I'm going on hols soon, so I'm going to let it slide until "la rentrée" (beginning of the year, french style, i.e. september).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromit
I'm also wondering if I should go for broke and buy a fully KAB'd SL1210 and sell on the one I have, they sell very well here on ebay, or I should just upgrade the one I've got. If I take the later course of action, I'm inclined to start with the PSU and work back to the arm.
I've had to force myself to listen to CDs recently (180° turnaround!), and I'm now up to 4 LPs ordered in the week since buying the Teccie :lol:
(No Music this weelend MiL is in town :steam: )
Peter
While we're on the subject of mats, my Achromat has arrived.
In terms of 'material value for money' I'm feeling rather underwhelmed to say the least! :steam:
I'll reserve final judgement until I've heard what it does of course, but I'm seriously impressed with the feel of the thing at over fifty quid. But not favourably! :scratch:
Cheers,
Mike.
Didn't you see a picture and description before ordering it? What were you expecting something gold-plated and lined with diamante jewellery? :lol:
It does the job very well - relax :smoking:
Neal and Richard, I'll get back to you later - just having some munchies...
Marco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Of course I bloody well was ya big daft haggis muncher! :steam:
Blimey.... some people eh?
Understandable Mike...look up place mats on Ikea IE:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shian7
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/70128608
Worth a try when cut to size. Also B&Q Cork floor mats....amd my favorite:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...C=SO&U=strat15
You do that a lot! :lolsign: IE: 'I'll respond later in more detail'....'more to follow later'....etc :lol: :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Mike also try this guy on Ebay:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Vinyl-Alignment
Cheers Neal! :)
Neal,
Nothing wrong with that, and I can see how it could work.Quote:
Maybe that's correct used on their own but I used them in combination with other types to get the balance I wanted.
I heard Greg's Garrard at Owston and liked it so I don't doubt he's got the right solution. The platter on a 1210 is very different, though.Quote:
I've heard Greg's (over on AT) Garard with just the OEM mat and its none the worse for it, Greg did the same experiments as me and concluded the original was best, he uses it 'as is' AFAIK.
Which aftermarket mats have you tried, Neal? I've had most of them. You're right, quite a few of them are crap but with the Achromat, for example, I've not had a bad experience yet. I think Arthur K has got the design spot-on. I hated, for example, the Ringmat, as I found it gave a hard edge to the sound.Quote:
Truth is none of the after market mats damped the platter well on any of the decks I tried, it still rang like a bell when tapped and I could detect a hardening in the mid and an edge to HF on all of them used in isolation but in combination they all improved giving slightly differing presentations....but there was certainly no muddle, that was one of the aspects of the sound I wanted to avoid as was any edge to the HF.
What puzzled me, forget about Garrards, etc, was that you thought the stock rubber mat worked best on Mike's SL-120, and if it has the same platter as the 1210 (which I'm 99.9% certain it has), that's a bit of a mystery to me as to my ears (and most others) the rubber mat kills the sound in the way I have described :scratch:
The Isoplatmat/Achromat combination to my ears is just *SO* much better.
Yes, you're absolutely right.Quote:
Peoples mileage will vary and its a very subjective choice in the end.
Marco.
Flea Market/Yard sale this morning locally, came away with quite a haul. Got some record cleaning to do :lolsign:Quote:
Originally Posted by user34
KAB got back to me, so the PSU and tonearm rewire are ordered.
Peter
Nice one, Peter. I told you you'd be buying more records! :)
Kevin (from KAB) always gets back to you but sometimes you have to give him a bit of time as he's a one man band and sometimes takes on more work than can handle. He’s a great guy to deal with, though. His reputation is very important to him so he always looks after his customers.
Say that you're a friend of mine in your next correspondence and you might get a discount, particularly if you mention that you first heard about the KAB mods here. The amount of referrals and business I've given him from all over the place warrants it! ;)
In any case, keep us posted on developments.
Marco.
I've also got John's counterweight, the Sumiko Headshell and the isoplatmat on the way.
I've got to do some culling on the record side tho', I only have room for 500 or so.
Nice one. Trust me, you'll be in vinyl audio nirvana :)Quote:
I've also got John's counterweight, the Sumiko Headshell and the isoplatmat on the way.
Marco.
Richard,
How are you getting on with the Sumiko - have you compared it to the Zu? :)
Oh, and let me know what you want to do about the cartridge leads.
Marco.
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygreenandblue
Hi Marco - haven't had much chance to do any comparisons with the Sumiko/Zu as yet but next week things are a lot quieter so I intend to get a couple of hours' fiddling done. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I'm also looking at a PL-71 on eBay at the moment (so keep your hands off you buggers...it's mine!!) :D
No worries, matey. Keep me posted when you get a chance to have a play :smoking:
Just be careful going down the PL-71 route. Have you checked it can still be serviced?
You don't want to run the risk of ending up with simply a nice looking ornament!
Marco.
Interesting stuff. I am about to start sorting out a super cheap SL1210 I got off ebay. The deck itself is solid but the arm is in a state so is going off to AudioOrigami for fettling and rewiring internally and externally. When I get it back I will be putting a Denon DL110 on it initially as a baseline and will then be looking at other possibilities. I am partcularly interested in the Audio Technica AT150mlx - has anyone got opinions on this cart?
The other things I need are a counterweight and a headshell or two - who does the custom brass ones I have seen in some of the pics here?
Cheers,
J
Do you have more details on that, i.e. is it a single piece wire, or two piece ?Quote:
Originally Posted by jimb0
Thanks
I believe it is a two piece job e.g. like with the original wiring scheme (there is a PCB involved). I have ordered a 3-piece brass counterweight from John as well which looks to be an excellent solution.
J
I also have one of John's 'weights in the mail pipe. I also have KAB arm rewire on the way. That is, I ordered a new tonearm wand already rewired. But, once I've installed that I'll have a spare tonearm wand. Hmm, wonder what I could possibly do with that :eyebrows: ? In fact I'm a bit nervous about doing the installation myself, I'm never very at ease with a soldering iron. But, KAB says that the Cardas tonearm wires come ready tinned and only need "tacking" into place.
I have also placed an order for one :P Have had to move my counterweight right to the back with the Sumiko & Denon stuff on the end. Looks like lovely craftwork & look forward to trying it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by user34
Even with the "aux" weight ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomanze