Who's not to say that the person who drops a lot of cash on a system are not bigger music lovers than people that like to tinker.
Either way does it matter!
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Who's not to say that the person who drops a lot of cash on a system are not bigger music lovers than people that like to tinker.
Either way does it matter!
I didn't mention anything about who's the better lover :lol:
I talked about pride of ownership.
Would you be more proud of a kit car or whatever that you built yourself, or one you bought from a car showroom?
I think it stands to reason that it would logically be the DIY car that would give you greater pride in ownership as you did the work yourself...
I find that people that can simply drop a big wedge on any purchase they like tend to know the cost of everything, but at the end of the day they also tend to know the value of nothing.
Hi Peter,
I completely agree. Why do you think I continually give the middle finger to those with that type of mentality, and who have vested interests to protect?Quote:
There are many out there that will douse the 1200 camp. Some will do it because they are involved with the industry and retailers do not sell the modded. If the reviewers did, then they would be supporting the "buy it direct from the cottage" and where would their advertising come from? Sometimes though, it can be out of confusion or worse still, arrogance.
One of the things I enjoy most about championing the Techy is I know that, with the influence of a large and popular site like AoS, the word gets out there pretty quickly in Internet land - and it stays there - and so acts continually as 'one in the eye' for those, who for commercial reasons, would rather see the Techy disappear into the sunset... ;)
The concept of taking a basic SL-1200/1210, and modifying it to become something rather special, is becoming more popular with the enthusiast T/T market all the time, as more and more people hear about it, and so try that route for themselves. AoS will continue to be at the forefront of promoting that concept, so the folk with agendas can go and take a hike! :finger:
That's what a forum like this is for. If one takes the trouble to read through threads, one gets to know who's opinions are based on genuine experience, and thus have validity and are worth considering, or the 'wafflers', who simply invent things to justify their own position, and ultimately therefore who, amongst the assembled membership, are on our own wavelength.Quote:
As there is a car analogy, here comes my spanner.
Modding anything will always give different results, whether the engine, suspension or bodywork. The product will get further away from the original. The Porsche in standard stock form is a known result. By spending a lot on mods to any car will take it off in a different direction than nthe initial performance criteria. (No pun intended) Some better, some worse.
The problem with 1200's and modding as I see it, is that there are variations of SL1210, plus by mixing the pieces (several each of the following)
Mats
Platters
Bearings
Power Supplies
Arms
the end result will not be the same. There would be a terrific number of variant SL1210's. Which route to go down?
There are people whose opinions here I trust enough to audition equipment, which they recommend, without hesitation, providing of course that said equipment interests me sufficiently in the first place.
For me, that's what proper audio communities are about: sharing experiences and learning from each other to our mutual benefit, not the willy-waving, tedious point-scoring and endless, circular diatribe about 'what science can and can't prove’ in audio, and the intolerant behaviour towards each other shown by those from their respective 'camps', as is often seen elsewhere. :rolleyes:
Sadly, pfm is currently being infected with this disease, simply by allowing a minority of vocal 'objectivists' (who really offer little constructive input and are there simply to justify their own dogma) to take over the place. I really do hope that Tony and his team nip it in the bud soon, or pfm could slowly go the way of the old Zerogain forum, or turn into Wigwam MKII. Anyway, I digress...
That's a great idea! Perhaps that’s something for The Library to consider?Quote:
There already may exist on this forum a chart with two possible avenues to go down, but I am unaware of it. This would help people to mod their 1200 in a logical path knowing the final outcome.
Me too! It's also another valid point. I firmly believe that people shun going down the modded Techy route, simply because they can't be arsed with the fiddling. Like you say, they want "plonk & play".Quote:
Whether you are a "Hot Rodder" or a "Plonk & Player", there are always going to be different opinions. Personally, I am a P&Per because the final result is consistency, however, at heart I am a rodder when I see a weakness in the basics.
What, however, if they had a tried and tested 'solution' to buy into in one hit, based on their available budget? If that were the case, I think that more people would be inclined to give it a go. Various tried and tested options, outlined accordingly in The Library (or as a 'sticky' thread in Analogue Art), in 'black & white', as it were, might just be the ticket! :)
Most interesting... I'll bear that in mind! :DQuote:
BTW If someone with the tech skills wants to rip apart a 1210 to be left with the guts, I can supply the slate cut platform for the exercise. A total rebuild from the ground up resulting in a SL2100
Marco.
I've read all this with interest.
There are, of course, many paths to righteousness, but one proposed by (what I first read as) The Vinyl Antichrist, is probably, on balance, not the one to take. :lol:
However, I am with those who say 'this is only hi-fi' FFS. We each do our own thing, so move along, there . . . life's too short for inconsequential spats. :peace:
Would have more pride if i built it but dosen't mean the bloke next door who has a ford focus doesn't enjoy driving more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
They're called Premier League footballers !!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by vouk
I'm sorry, but I just don't see what you are getting at :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by chelsea
Why do you keep pressing me on who is the biggest lover of music? That is in no way the question brought up by the OP & nothing I have typed has brought this into question.
It's simply unanswerable if you think about it. How do you measure who loves music more?
Therefore it's not even worth bringing up surely?
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioman
I think he basically (as Mark says) is not into tweaking which is fair enough. Each to their own
There are a few DD being made Brinkmann Teres and Grand Prix Audio Monaco
What Marco and co have done is blazzed a PATH that others may choose to follow
For their 3 choices to really good sounding turntable
DD if the power supply is clean and motor is stable
A heavy mass belt drive
A well sorted Idlier/rim drive
Indeed, John - and what do those T/Ts cost, in comparison to a fully 'tricked out' Techy? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by John
As an example, my own T/T has cost me so far in the region of £5.5k, which includes the original purchase price of a brand new MK5G, from the States.
However... £2100 of that is from the cost of my new Ortofon tonearm! That brings the bill down to £3.4k.
The fact is, it doesn't take fitting an 'exotic' tonearm to turn the Techy into a genuine high-end T/T. It's sorting the T/T out properly, so that one hears the true capability of the motor unit, which matters most. The same could be achieved by using, say, a Jelco 750, with all the existing, more fundamental, mods which have been carried out on my T/T, remaining in place.
Therefore, if one adds the cost of a Jelco SA-750, to the above £3.4k, it takes us to around £3.75k.
Can you get a new Brinkmann or a GPM for that price?? I rest my case!
Marco.
You're spot on with what you've written. I alluded earlier to the 'uniqueness' of owing a bespoke T/T, and your observations have encapsulated that nicely :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Reid Malenfant
Barratt show home? Never!! :eek:
Marco.
Do I detect evidence of reverse discrimination here?:lol:
Don't know gentlemen, but I hardly see how most "plug and play" "ready made for you" offerings out there would necessarily fall in the "same cauldron" or "Barratt house" category.
In my recent search for a t/t I went out and auditioned some of the usual culprits from rather "mainstream" manufacturers: Michell, Notts Analogue, Kuzma, Amazon, Clearaudio, Linn and Vyger. In my price category, all of the above offer fit and forget - just add water (err... cartridge) products that basically share the same philosophy: belt driven, DC motors in separate housing, largish platters, and very specific or specified upgrade paths (with minimal personal involvement). Yet they all offer VERY different design approaches and principles, different manufacturing materials, different visuals and aesthetics and, most importantly, very different sonic presentations. I'm sure the same would apply with other t/t's which I, unfortunately, never got the chance to listen to. There are some very distinct flavours out there, and I guess it's up to each and everyone of us to figure out which to go for.
As for pride of ownership, I guess that comes in many different guises. There are thousands of Michell and LP12 owners out there that are very proud of their t/t's (as they should be) by the mere and simple fact that they (like the Technics) are legends in their own right. Regardless of what others think of their sonic presentation.
That being said, I stand in absolute awe towards DIY'ers and tweakers for the sheer effort, blood, sweat and tears they put into their equipment. In my book, that's worthy of respect.:cool:
And I'm in awe of the money some of them have to spend on it cause I wish I had it to spend on my Techie too :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by vouk
I wonder whether a true top-end TT or a DIY hot-rodded SL1200 (or the like) would retain more value should you wish to move it on.
To borrow the car analogy, I suspect that a Porsche will always be valued by the market as a Porsche (i.e. an item with known provenance and history), wheras your Hyundai with a rocket engine will probably be worth less than a standard Hyndai unless you revert it to standard, and sell the parts to another Hyundai owner with a death-wish!.
Of course, this isn't to traduce the pleasure of modifying an item and customising it. I do feel that we should not be dogmatic and so defensive when others challenge this approach. Basically, what works for you is right, and there is no absolute 'right approach' to align others to.
Cheers,
Alex
Hi Alex,
Absolutely (I share your sentiments), and I also agree this:
However, on AoS we will always champion what equipment and ancillaries are considered as offering the highest SPPV - and therefore what gives the 'biggest bang for your buck'. Thus, recommendations on how best to achieve that, will always be the central focus. As such, the ownership of high-end 'badges' will never be important here.Quote:
To borrow the car analogy, I suspect that a Porsche will always be valued by the market as a Porsche (i.e. an item with known provenance and history), wheras your Hyundai with a rocket engine will probably be worth less...
Furthermore, as AoS is first and foremost a discerning enthusiast's site, then those needs, before those of the industry, or any commercial concern, will always come first. It's not about market value or 'desirability'; it's about raw SPPV, pure and simple.
Therefore, purely on those terms, one cannot argue against the validity of a judiciously modified Technics, when compared with today's high-end 'off the shelf' direct-drive turntables, as was evidenced by my earlier calculations :)
Marco.
Hi Alex,Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
Definitely agree with your last statement - not necessarily with the value analogy. Technics decks have a loyal almost cult like following and their owners or potential owners seem to be very aware of the costs/benefits of each individual upgrade or modification. If, for example, Marco decided to sell his deck, anyone in the market for a Technics would probably recognize its real material value and the quality of the individual components, and thus price it accordingly. Investment wise it might even represent better value than some of the other "top-end" decks (dd or not) whose prices seem to drop the minute they walk out of the showroom.
As Yogi said, "I'm with you, BooBoo, 100%", particularly the last paragraph - irrespective of what others may post, there is no definitive single path to audio Nirvana, with the Techie or any other single piece or combination of kit. Preaching the Gospel is fine in my book but attempting to become a missionary aiming to convert the poor unfortunates who do not currently believe is a step too far in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
Dave.
Hi Dave,
I agree, and I don't see any evidence of that here. It's simply about ensuring that there is as much factual information available as possible, in order for people to make an informed decision on whether modifying the Technics is the right path for them to take or not.Quote:
Preaching the Gospel is fine in my book but attempting to become a missionary aiming to convert the poor unfortunates who do not currently believe is a step too far in my book.
In that respect, it's always helpful being exposed to both sides of the argument :)
Marco.
Hello,
If he wants to post some financial caveats regarding getting into SL 1200's, fine, folks should know this - But, I don't see the need to be so hissy about Marco? To me, it's really not an audio point - Marco gets to choose what he likes, interact to the degree he wants, he knows how much time/energy/$'s he's investing and how much satisfaction he derives. 'Coulda been a nice, objective article. As it is I don't see the point... And as far as 2 schools - DIY and out-of-the-box, not true, some of us enjoy dabbling but only to a degree. There are all kinds and shades in-between and that's OK.
:cool: pale, stout, nut brown, lager - whatever you want
Barry
Hi Barry,
I wasn't being "hissy"; merely challenging his observations, both with facts, and my alternative opinion, based on genuine and practical listening experience.Quote:
If he wants to post some financial caveats regarding getting into SL 1200's, fine, folks should know this - But, I don't see the need to be so hissy about Marco?
For a true definition of "hissy", see Marc's outbursts, from the original discussion, shown here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9681
Marco.
Hi Marco,
I was referring to Marc coming off as 'hissy' towards you, or like he had to knock you down, which I didn't approve of, not YOU being hissy. Sorry if any misunderstanding.
Best,
Barry
Ah, apologies, that's not how it read :)
I totally agree. There's nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, however ill-informed, but when opinions are riddled with agendas, that's when you have a problem.
Marco.
That's a very good point, John, even before taking into consideration my 'celebrity status'! :eyebrows: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by vouk
Marco.
Any publicity, good or bad, is still publicity my friend.:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Indeed! ;)
The other thing I've found is that, in the States, equipment from classic British manufacturers, such as Linn, Rega and Michell (amongst others) appears to have a certain kudos and desirability of ownership, which a lot of Japanese gear doesn't enjoy to the same extent.
I detect a definite perception over there that British gear is considered as 'a bit special' - even if we know that this is not always the case!
Therefore, I've experienced this Brit-gear 'love-in' before, with Yanks, even before I had the pleasure of encountering the charming, and of course agenda-free, Marc Phillips.
Marco.
Me think the man doth protest too much. You'd love to be widely accePted as the doyen of technics mods Marco, there's no point pretending that you wouldn't, we all crave a little recognition. There's nowt wrong with that either.
I think a lot of the comparissons are somewhat off here though. The 1210 has a nice engineblock, everything else is crap. To free its true potential you need to spend thousands on mods to the physical and electrical parts of the deck. Sure nothing else sounds like the finished modded deck, but that doesn't mean it's brilliantly unique, just unique, and all heavily modded decks are that.
It's no more or less an ideologically sound method of arriving at a particular sound than any other method, and because sound quality is an entirely personal judgement no more or less likely to deliver that than any other method.
Surely people can just enjoy what they have without criticising and belittling alternatives or making out that their chosen path is in any way more valid than any other.
Hi Simon,
Ha - you can think what you like, matey. I'm not protesting or belittling, but rather simply informing and challenging misinformation. And yes, I enjoy helping people, by using the experience that I have to their benefit, on subjects I know inside out.Quote:
Me think the man doth protest too much. You'd love to be widely accePted as the doyen of technics mods Marco, there's no point pretending that you wouldn't, we all crave a little recognition. There's nowt wrong with that either.
The reality is that for every inaccurate and blinkered, agenda-driven portrayal of the sonic capabilities of the Techy, often by people who haven't even heard a fully modified one (!), I'll seek to redress the balance with reasoned logic and facts, based on the practical experience of actually experimenting and listening!
This is done in order to allow folks, who may be considering going down the route of modifying a Technics, to study genuine and practical information from people who've been there and done it. I needed that help when I was first researching the subject, and so I'm making damn sure that AoS provides as much of it as possible to help others.
Judging by the amount of people joining here to go that route, and by the number of PMs and emails I receive on the subject, I can safely say that what I'm doing works! ;)
Marco.
;-)
No doubt that it works fella, none at all, or that it's a major contribution to the success of AOS. Where you lead.....
Hi,
Marco is dead on about Yanks being anglophiles - I'm one of them. Why? With regards to gear: Got sick of 'flabby' sounding speakers (w/ solid-state amps) in the 70s and loved the detailed, tight sound of the British work w/ bextrene, polypropylene, etc. and good quality cross-overs, veneers, etc. Also, and this is BIG - your mags were WAY ahead, what with HFN&RR, Hi-Fi Choice/Answers, etc. It was generally believed that our Stereo Review never saw a piece of equipment they didn't like as long as they advertised in their mag and the Rodrigues 'toons were the only reason to buy. I also liked the fact that the Brits seemed to appreciate integrateds whereas here you either got separates and were taken seriously or a receiver and shunned. I think timing is everything. Now, we are beginning to appreciate our own and Japanese gear (and those 'flabby' speakers can sound good w/ tubes) but the British gear fit what we needed at the time.
And then there's: Monty Python, Watney's Red Barrel, Helen Mirren and Britt Ecklund (British by association), teak, Vaughan Williams, the Avengers, the Prisoner, the Kinks, the Faces, the Small Faces (Ogden Nut Gone Flake w/ circular cover)...
Best,
Sir Barrymore
Sorry about that. But I strongly suspect that this has a lot more to do with hi fi magazines, money and marketing over here than it does with envy about our British cousins cultural and musical achievements and fine sensibilities. Which is not to say that they aren't magnificent, mind you.
I think it may have a lot to do with pricing too. What seems to us as a rather ordinary and humdrum UK product feels exotic and rarified to you simply because of the jacked up imported price. And vice versa.
The Absolute Sound and Stereophile are the preeminent print journals in the States, and I'm guessing that their operations are largely funded by ad dollars paid by manufacturers, distributors and retailers for hi-end gear, and all of their inventory of turntables are belt-driven.
TAS and Stereophile establish conventions concerning hi-fidelity gear quality that some internet hifi reviewers (not those like 6 Moons or Positive Feedback, of course) may feel compelled to abide by or suffer the pity and disdain of the 'real' reviewers at the big boys.
When you read, e.g., Robert Harley's 'The Complete Guide to High-End Audio (4th ed. Acapella Publishing), the clear preference for high-end belt drive tables is explicit. (No criticism is intended here at Mr. Harley, the editor in chief of TAS, whose reviews are careful and great reads.) Again, the buzz is that money talks and BS walks when it comes to getting reviewed in TAS and Stereophile, and Matsushita has no money to spend on promoting the Technics deck.
Best,
MIke
Hello,
It's interesting how there's eventually a re-assessment of things. I mean the Techies were flat ubiquitious by rockers who didn't give a crap about hi-fi in the 70s here and were generallynot taken seriously as hi-fi turntables here at all. I knew so many people who had these and set them on top their Klipsch Hereseys, JBL L100s, etc. The Technics SL-1200 is probably the ultimate example of a re-assessed,re-appreciated product.
Best,
Barry
Don't know how I stumbled upon this but it appears to have caused quite a stir. Back when Marc worked for us, he never really enjoyed the 1200. I have to admit I've never been a huge fan of a stock 1200, however, between the enthusiasm I've seen here and on a few other forums, along with Dave C's help, I really enjoy the modded 1200 these days. We now have two of them in the fleet - one with most of the Sound HiFi mods and one with most of the Zu mods. Both are great tables and well worth the money spent.
I think one of the toughest things to overcome as a reviewer is to try and keep an open mind with everything.
Hell, I'm even going down the TD-124 path now.
Can't have too many turntables, I say.
He's just another guy with a personal opinion about what he likes and what he doesn't like. it's no more or less valid than anyone else's choice about what deck they prefer and his opinion doesn't validate or negate anyone else's personal opinion about the deck they own and use themselves. If one simply accepts that people have different opinions and that they are as entitled and just as likely to be right or wrong as anyone else in then what's the trouble?
Marco, if you are happy with your own choice then why give two figs about what anyone else thinks? Unless you feel the need to have your opinion validated by others.
I think there's some merit in part of what he says, but ultimately think he lands at the wrong conclusion. If I wanted the best sound from a DD deck and wanted to choose my own arm and work on the PSU in a platform that leant itself most easily to modification and the highest quality replay then i'd buy a SP10 MK3. I understand that the 1210 gives a more accessible point of entry and is therefore a more logical choice for many. But once you've spent a few grand on it, might you not have achieved more, and potentially for less outlay starting from the Sp10 than a 1210? I genuinely don't know the answer.
At the end of the day, opinions are like arseholes, we all have them and some of them are full of shit. ;-)
Hi Jeff,Quote:
Originally Posted by TONEPUB
I'm trying to reply to your email, but it keeps bouncing back when I send one to jeff@tonepublications.com
Are you still having problems with your server, or have you got another email address I can contact you on? :)
Marco.
P.S Simon, I'll reply to you later.
Still seems to be a bit wacky, but I did get your email.. Hopefully sorted in the next day or soQuote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Some good points raised , if you get an SP10 mk2 put it in a plinth , serviced and your arm/cart of choice , then you have an excellent turntable with just as much scope for improvement (perhaps even more ) than a SL1200 mk2 ? If your highly modified and maxed out 1210 sounds better than a good SP10 ? Then fine but what about a maxed out SP10 ? There are plenty of mods/improvements for it , though many owners often just get them serviced with a decent plinth .Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917
For those with little time , ill sum up this thread .
bloke A as the temerity to trash the technics twelve months ago and bloke B spends an age proving bloke A is an idiot without actually saying it whilst pretending all he really objected to was the bloke A's suggestion that a reasonably priced out of the box dd turntable is available .
Bloke b's opinion should be accepted because of his wealth of experience and golden ears and whilst he fully accepts - for he is reasonable and rational - that low mass belt drives may suit sum , you are left in no doubt -for it is more than inference even though he deosnt actually say it - that any body who prefers such a means of music making is mad and deaf. ;)
several technics acolyates chip in for support one person attempts to defend the notion that bloke a's opinion may be just as valid .
Nice one, Jeff. If you could reply, when you get a chance, I'd appreciate it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TONEPUB
Marco.
It will come as a surprise to no one that I agree with the reasoning behind this post. In fairness I should perhaps add that I speak as a confirmed Techie fan and have benefitted greatly in this regard from advice and information from Techie users on this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Quinn
Dave.
It strikes me as a prime example of the very worst sort of 'handbags at dawn' audio discussion.
Hi Simon,
I wouldn't have had a problem with that in the slightest (plenty of people on here prefer using something else to a Techy, modded or otherwise, and I leave them to it), but it was the way that this guy launched what was tantamount to a hate campaign against the Technics and its users, which prompted me to respond as I did.Quote:
He's just another guy with a personal opinion about what he likes and what he doesn't like.
Well, that would've been the case if he'd actually heard a fully modified one, but of course he hadn't, and was simply spouting bollocks, based on nothing much more than unfounded prejudice, thus his 'opinion' was worth 'hee-haw' (as they say in Glasgow).Quote:
...it's no more or less valid than anyone else's choice about what deck they prefer.
I'm sorry, but I have a low tolerance threshold for people who slag stuff off that they haven't even heard properly. That shit is completely unconstructive and only serves to create misinformation.
As I wrote before (earlier in the thread):
I stand by every word of that, as it's the simple truth. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with wanting my opinion validated by others. Please read it, Simon (and others), and let it sink in, once and for all.Quote:
The reality is that for every inaccurate and blinkered, agenda-driven portrayal of the sonic capabilities of the Techy, often by people who haven't even heard a fully modified one (!) I'll seek to redress the balance with reasoned logic and facts, based on the practical experience of actually experimenting and listening!
This is done in order to allow folks, who may be considering going down the route of modifying a Technics, to study genuine and practical information from people who've been there and done it. I needed that help when I was first researching the subject, and so I'm making damn sure that AoS provides as much of it as possible to help others.
Sure, you may be right. The trouble is that MK3 SP10s are as rare as hen's teeth, so it's not a viable option for most - that, and also the fact that you're still dealing with using an old turntable, which in all likelihood will need plenty spending on it in order to get it performing anything like to its original spec.Quote:
If I wanted the best sound from a DD deck and wanted to choose my own arm and work on the PSU in a platform that leant itself most easily to modification and the highest quality replay then i'd buy a SP10 MK3. I understand that the 1210 gives a more accessible point of entry and is therefore a more logical choice for many. But once you've spent a few grand on it, might you not have achieved more, and potentially for less outlay starting from the Sp10 than a 1210? I genuinely don't know the answer.
There are SP10 users on record here who have said that the control electronics require recalibrating (in order for the motor units to perform optimally), which needs done by an expert with access to the appropriate equipment, and that this service doesn't come cheap. Then you have to factor in the cost of a top-notch plinth, in order to hear the full potential of the motor unit, and of course a decent arm and cartridge.
Add that lot up, including what an SP10 MK3 motor unit would cost on its own, and you're probably not far off what I've paid for my modded Techy, minus the Ortofon arm, which is the single most expensive thing I've fitted to my T/T - and you still don't know for sure if said SP10, suitably fettled, would sonically outperform my T/T or one of the other very highly modified SL-1210s, people on this forum and elsewhere use.
Nah, for me, it's way too much of a ball-ache, especially when there are hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions of used (some almost brand new) SL-1200s and 1210s out there, all likely with optimally performing control electronics, waiting to be transformed into some of the best sounding T/Ts that money can buy! :cool:
Marco.
10 pages in some people still missing the point in spectacular fashion...
What actually happened:
Bloke A trashes the Technics says there is no point spending lots of money modding one when you can buy an off the shelf deck from e.g Rega that is just as good in fact in his opinion a lot better
Bloke B who is perhaps a little evangelical about trying to point people in the direction of a good sound but nevertheless means well points out that no off the shelf solution will sound like a modded Technics so if that is the sound you want there is no off the shelf alternative and it is misleading people to suggest that there is.
Cue 8 pages of 'all opinions are valid' type posts.:rolleyes:
Hi Marco
I find that last sentence amazing ! You are a guy who would go to great lengths to obtain that little bit extra improvement for your system , am I not mistaken ? Example being your recent experiments with tonearm cables , getting an SP10 sorted might seem daunting but Richard (vantage) is the man , and he's not looking to top up his pension pot ! Err hum if you know what I mean .
Indeed, Martin. Thank goodness someone is paying proper attention! :doh:Quote:
Cue 8 pages of 'all opinions are valid' type posts...
It's those types of posts which rip my knitting and frustrate me beyond belief, not only because, like you say, they spectacularly miss the point, but simply because although all opinions are valid, some are undoubtedly more valid than others: namely those of who actually have practical experience of using and listening to the equipment in question.
That's a fact, so some people need to embrace it and accept it, instead of fuelling tedious circular debates, when the point was made very clearly about 10 pages back!
Marco.
Sorry Martin , quite right of course .Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
The problem is as I see it , bloke A looks like he has an agenda and a dislike for bloke B , bloke B also seems to have an agenda and a dislike for bloke A
Hi Chris,
Sure, Chris. I might have considered it had any of the SP10 MK2s I've heard to date notably outperformed my modded SL-1210, which would've given me some food for thought.Quote:
I find that last sentence amazing ! You are a guy who would go to great lengths to obtain that little bit extra improvement for your system , am I not mistaken ? Example being your recent experiments with tonearm cables , getting an SP10 sorted might seem daunting but Richard (vantage) is the man , and he's not looking to top up his pension pot ! Err hum if you know what I mean .
Given that this hasn't been the case (not even remotely), then I trust you can understand my reluctance to embark on what would be an expensive and time-consuming project, with no guarantee that I'd end up in a better position than I am now! :)
If I buy another turntable it'll either be one of Audio Grail's superb fully reconditioned 'gunmetal' finished 301s, originally used by the BBC, or a lovely TD124, with all the Swissonor mods fitted to it, either of which would be used in addition to the Techy.
Marco.
Both blokes have agendas, no question - one owns and runs a hi-fi forum the other has his own hi-fi blog so both are obviously quite keen on actively spreading the word. Nothing intrinsically wrong in having an agenda. As to disliking each other, well if they have never met then it is just keyboard warrior stuff and not, I feel, to be taken as seriously as a vicious punch up in the street outside the pub.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@panteg
Actively spreading the word about the Techy is precisely what I set out to do, and have done very successfully. The difference being, of course, that in my case, regarding the Techy, I have a genuine and thorough understanding of what it is I'm talking about!Quote:
Both blokes have agendas, no question - one owns and runs a hi-fi forum the other has his own hi-fi blog so both are obviously quite keen on actively spreading the word.
And of course, bloke B wouldn't have felt that way, had bloke A not written his prejudiced bile in the first place! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@panteg
Study 'cause and effect'. I also had no knowledge of, or contact with, Marc Phillips up until that point.
Now I really must insist that this part of the discussion ends here, as it's becoming tediously circular, therefore any further posts of that nature will be removed without further warning.
Marco.