It's great to be 'famous'!!

[chelsea]

Who's not to say that the person who drops a lot of cash on a system are not bigger music lovers than people that like to tinker.

Either way does it matter!

[Reid Malenfant]

I didn't mention anything about who's the better lover

I talked about pride of ownership.

Would you be more proud of a kit car or whatever that you built yourself, or one you bought from a car showroom?

I think it stands to reason that it would logically be the DIY car that would give you greater pride in ownership as you did the work yourself...


I find that people that can simply drop a big wedge on any purchase they like tend to know the cost of everything, but at the end of the day they also tend to know the value of nothing.

[Marco]

Hi Peter,

There are many out there that will douse the 1200 camp. Some will do it because they are involved with the industry and retailers do not sell the modded. If the reviewers did, then they would be supporting the "buy it direct from the cottage" and where would their advertising come from? Sometimes though, it can be out of confusion or worse still, arrogance.

I completely agree. Why do you think I continually give the middle finger to those with that type of mentality, and who have vested interests to protect?

One of the things I enjoy most about championing the Techy is I know that, with the influence of a large and popular site like AoS, the word gets out there pretty quickly in Internet land - and it stays there - and so acts continually as 'one in the eye' for those, who for commercial reasons, would rather see the Techy disappear into the sunset...

The concept of taking a basic SL-1200/1210, and modifying it to become something rather special, is becoming more popular with the enthusiast T/T market all the time, as more and more people hear about it, and so try that route for themselves. AoS will continue to be at the forefront of promoting that concept, so the folk with agendas can go and take a hike!

As there is a car analogy, here comes my spanner.

Modding anything will always give different results, whether the engine, suspension or bodywork. The product will get further away from the original. The Porsche in standard stock form is a known result. By spending a lot on mods to any car will take it off in a different direction than nthe initial performance criteria. (No pun intended) Some better, some worse.

The problem with 1200's and modding as I see it, is that there are variations of SL1210, plus by mixing the pieces (several each of the following)
Mats
Platters
Bearings
Power Supplies
Arms
the end result will not be the same. There would be a terrific number of variant SL1210's. Which route to go down?

That's what a forum like this is for. If one takes the trouble to read through threads, one gets to know who's opinions are based on genuine experience, and thus have validity and are worth considering, or the 'wafflers', who simply invent things to justify their own position, and ultimately therefore who, amongst the assembled membership, are on our own wavelength.

There are people whose opinions here I trust enough to audition equipment, which they recommend, without hesitation, providing of course that said equipment interests me sufficiently in the first place.

For me, that's what proper audio communities are about: sharing experiences and learning from each other to our mutual benefit, not the willy-waving, tedious point-scoring and endless, circular diatribe about 'what science can and can't prove’ in audio, and the intolerant behaviour towards each other shown by those from their respective 'camps', as is often seen elsewhere.

Sadly, pfm is currently being infected with this disease, simply by allowing a minority of vocal 'objectivists' (who really offer little constructive input and are there simply to justify their own dogma) to take over the place. I really do hope that Tony and his team nip it in the bud soon, or pfm could slowly go the way of the old Zerogain forum, or turn into Wigwam MKII. Anyway, I digress...

There already may exist on this forum a chart with two possible avenues to go down, but I am unaware of it. This would help people to mod their 1200 in a logical path knowing the final outcome.

That's a great idea! Perhaps that’s something for The Library to consider?

Whether you are a "Hot Rodder" or a "Plonk & Player", there are always going to be different opinions. Personally, I am a P&Per because the final result is consistency, however, at heart I am a rodder when I see a weakness in the basics.

Me too! It's also another valid point. I firmly believe that people shun going down the modded Techy route, simply because they can't be arsed with the fiddling. Like you say, they want "plonk & play".

What, however, if they had a tried and tested 'solution' to buy into in one hit, based on their available budget? If that were the case, I think that more people would be inclined to give it a go. Various tried and tested options, outlined accordingly in The Library (or as a 'sticky' thread in Analogue Art), in 'black & white', as it were, might just be the ticket!

BTW If someone with the tech skills wants to rip apart a 1210 to be left with the guts, I can supply the slate cut platform for the exercise. A total rebuild from the ground up resulting in a SL2100

Most interesting... I'll bear that in mind!

Marco.

[morris_minor]

I've read all this with interest.

There are, of course, many paths to righteousness, but one proposed by (what I first read as) The Vinyl Antichrist, is probably, on balance, not the one to take.

However, I am with those who say 'this is only hi-fi' FFS. We each do our own thing, so move along, there . . . life's too short for inconsequential spats.

[chelsea]

I didn't mention anything about who's the better lover

I talked about pride of ownership.

Would you be more proud of a kit car or whatever that you built yourself, or one you bought from a car showroom?

I think it stands to reason that it would logically be the DIY car that would give you greater pride in ownership as you did the work yourself...

Would have more pride if i built it but dosen't mean the bloke next door who has a ford focus doesn't enjoy driving more.

[Audioman]

Wholeheartedly agree. But then again there are many out there that wouldn't consider a Rolex or Ferrari as exclusive. Far from it.

They're called Premier League footballers !!!

[Reid Malenfant]

Would have more pride if i built it but dosen't mean the bloke next door who has a ford focus doesn't enjoy driving more.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see what you are getting at

Why do you keep pressing me on who is the biggest lover of music? That is in no way the question brought up by the OP & nothing I have typed has brought this into question.

It's simply unanswerable if you think about it. How do you measure who loves music more?

Therefore it's not even worth bringing up surely?

[vouk]

They're called Premier League footballers !!!

[John]

I think he basically (as Mark says) is not into tweaking which is fair enough. Each to their own
There are a few DD being made Brinkmann Teres and Grand Prix Audio Monaco
What Marco and co have done is blazzed a PATH that others may choose to follow
For their 3 choices to really good sounding turntable
DD if the power supply is clean and motor is stable
A heavy mass belt drive
A well sorted Idlier/rim drive

[Marco]

There are a few DD being made Brinkmann Teres and Grand Prix Audio Monaco

Indeed, John - and what do those T/Ts cost, in comparison to a fully 'tricked out' Techy?

As an example, my own T/T has cost me so far in the region of £5.5k, which includes the original purchase price of a brand new MK5G, from the States.

However... £2100 of that is from the cost of my new Ortofon tonearm! That brings the bill down to £3.4k.

The fact is, it doesn't take fitting an 'exotic' tonearm to turn the Techy into a genuine high-end T/T. It's sorting the T/T out properly, so that one hears the true capability of the motor unit, which matters most. The same could be achieved by using, say, a Jelco 750, with all the existing, more fundamental, mods which have been carried out on my T/T, remaining in place.

Therefore, if one adds the cost of a Jelco SA-750, to the above £3.4k, it takes us to around £3.75k.

Can you get a new Brinkmann or a GPM for that price?? I rest my case!

Marco.