It's great to be 'famous'!!

[DaveK]

For those with little time , ill sum up this thread .

bloke A as the temerity to trash the technics twelve months ago and bloke B spends an age proving bloke A is an idiot without actually saying it whilst pretending all he really objected to was the bloke A's suggestion that a reasonably priced out of the box dd turntable is available .

Bloke b's opinion should be accepted because of his wealth of experience and golden ears and whilst he fully accepts - for he is reasonable and rational - that low mass belt drives may suit sum , you are left in no doubt -for it is more than inference even though he deosnt actually say it - that any body who prefers such a means of music making is mad and deaf.

several technics acolyates chip in for support one person attempts to defend the notion that bloke a's opinion may be just as valid .

It will come as a surprise to no one that I agree with the reasoning behind this post. In fairness I should perhaps add that I speak as a confirmed Techie fan and have benefitted greatly in this regard from advice and information from Techie users on this forum.
Dave.

[Joe]

It strikes me as a prime example of the very worst sort of 'handbags at dawn' audio discussion.

[Marco]

Hi Simon,

He's just another guy with a personal opinion about what he likes and what he doesn't like.

I wouldn't have had a problem with that in the slightest (plenty of people on here prefer using something else to a Techy, modded or otherwise, and I leave them to it), but it was the way that this guy launched what was tantamount to a hate campaign against the Technics and its users, which prompted me to respond as I did.

...it's no more or less valid than anyone else's choice about what deck they prefer.

Well, that would've been the case if he'd actually heard a fully modified one, but of course he hadn't, and was simply spouting bollocks, based on nothing much more than unfounded prejudice, thus his 'opinion' was worth 'hee-haw' (as they say in Glasgow).

I'm sorry, but I have a low tolerance threshold for people who slag stuff off that they haven't even heard properly. That shit is completely unconstructive and only serves to create misinformation.

As I wrote before (earlier in the thread):

The reality is that for every inaccurate and blinkered, agenda-driven portrayal of the sonic capabilities of the Techy, often by people who haven't even heard a fully modified one (!) I'll seek to redress the balance with reasoned logic and facts, based on the practical experience of actually experimenting and listening!

This is done in order to allow folks, who may be considering going down the route of modifying a Technics, to study genuine and practical information from people who've been there and done it. I needed that help when I was first researching the subject, and so I'm making damn sure that AoS provides as much of it as possible to help others.

I stand by every word of that, as it's the simple truth. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with wanting my opinion validated by others. Please read it, Simon (and others), and let it sink in, once and for all.

If I wanted the best sound from a DD deck and wanted to choose my own arm and work on the PSU in a platform that leant itself most easily to modification and the highest quality replay then i'd buy a SP10 MK3. I understand that the 1210 gives a more accessible point of entry and is therefore a more logical choice for many. But once you've spent a few grand on it, might you not have achieved more, and potentially for less outlay starting from the Sp10 than a 1210? I genuinely don't know the answer.

Sure, you may be right. The trouble is that MK3 SP10s are as rare as hen's teeth, so it's not a viable option for most - that, and also the fact that you're still dealing with using an old turntable, which in all likelihood will need plenty spending on it in order to get it performing anything like to its original spec.

There are SP10 users on record here who have said that the control electronics require recalibrating (in order for the motor units to perform optimally), which needs done by an expert with access to the appropriate equipment, and that this service doesn't come cheap. Then you have to factor in the cost of a top-notch plinth, in order to hear the full potential of the motor unit, and of course a decent arm and cartridge.

Add that lot up, including what an SP10 MK3 motor unit would cost on its own, and you're probably not far off what I've paid for my modded Techy, minus the Ortofon arm, which is the single most expensive thing I've fitted to my T/T - and you still don't know for sure if said SP10, suitably fettled, would sonically outperform my T/T or one of the other very highly modified SL-1210s, people on this forum and elsewhere use.

Nah, for me, it's way too much of a ball-ache, especially when there are hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions of used (some almost brand new) SL-1200s and 1210s out there, all likely with optimally performing control electronics, waiting to be transformed into some of the best sounding T/Ts that money can buy!

Marco.

[Macca]

10 pages in some people still missing the point in spectacular fashion...

What actually happened:

Bloke A trashes the Technics says there is no point spending lots of money modding one when you can buy an off the shelf deck from e.g Rega that is just as good in fact in his opinion a lot better

Bloke B who is perhaps a little evangelical about trying to point people in the direction of a good sound but nevertheless means well points out that no off the shelf solution will sound like a modded Technics so if that is the sound you want there is no off the shelf alternative and it is misleading people to suggest that there is.

Cue 8 pages of 'all opinions are valid' type posts.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Marco
I find that last sentence amazing ! You are a guy who would go to great lengths to obtain that little bit extra improvement for your system , am I not mistaken ? Example being your recent experiments with tonearm cables , getting an SP10 sorted might seem daunting but Richard (vantage) is the man , and he's not looking to top up his pension pot ! Err hum if you know what I mean .

[Marco]

Cue 8 pages of 'all opinions are valid' type posts...

Indeed, Martin. Thank goodness someone is paying proper attention!

It's those types of posts which rip my knitting and frustrate me beyond belief, not only because, like you say, they spectacularly miss the point, but simply because although all opinions are valid, some are undoubtedly more valid than others: namely those of who actually have practical experience of using and listening to the equipment in question.

That's a fact, so some people need to embrace it and accept it, instead of fuelling tedious circular debates, when the point was made very clearly about 10 pages back!

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

10 pages in some people still missing the point in spectacular fashion...

What actually happened:

Bloke A trashes the Technics says there is no point spending lots of money modding one when you can buy an off the shelf deck from e.g Rega that is just as good in fact in his opinion a lot better

Bloke B who is perhaps a little evangelical about trying to point people in the direction of a good sound but nevertheless means well points out that no off the shelf solution will sound like a modded Technics so if that is the sound you want there is no off the shelf alternative and it is misleading people to suggest that there is.

Cue 8 pages of 'all opinions are valid' type posts.

Sorry Martin , quite right of course .

The problem is as I see it , bloke A looks like he has an agenda and a dislike for bloke B , bloke B also seems to have an agenda and a dislike for bloke A

[Marco]

Hi Chris,

I find that last sentence amazing ! You are a guy who would go to great lengths to obtain that little bit extra improvement for your system , am I not mistaken ? Example being your recent experiments with tonearm cables , getting an SP10 sorted might seem daunting but Richard (vantage) is the man , and he's not looking to top up his pension pot ! Err hum if you know what I mean .

Sure, Chris. I might have considered it had any of the SP10 MK2s I've heard to date notably outperformed my modded SL-1210, which would've given me some food for thought.

Given that this hasn't been the case (not even remotely), then I trust you can understand my reluctance to embark on what would be an expensive and time-consuming project, with no guarantee that I'd end up in a better position than I am now!

If I buy another turntable it'll either be one of Audio Grail's superb fully reconditioned 'gunmetal' finished 301s, originally used by the BBC, or a lovely TD124, with all the Swissonor mods fitted to it, either of which would be used in addition to the Techy.

Marco.

[Macca]

Sorry Martin , quite right of course .

The problem is as I see it , bloke A looks like he has an agenda and a dislike for bloke B , bloke B also seems to have an agenda and a dislike for bloke A

Both blokes have agendas, no question - one owns and runs a hi-fi forum the other has his own hi-fi blog so both are obviously quite keen on actively spreading the word. Nothing intrinsically wrong in having an agenda. As to disliking each other, well if they have never met then it is just keyboard warrior stuff and not, I feel, to be taken as seriously as a vicious punch up in the street outside the pub.

[Marco]

Both blokes have agendas, no question - one owns and runs a hi-fi forum the other has his own hi-fi blog so both are obviously quite keen on actively spreading the word.

Actively spreading the word about the Techy is precisely what I set out to do, and have done very successfully. The difference being, of course, that in my case, regarding the Techy, I have a genuine and thorough understanding of what it is I'm talking about!

Sorry Martin , quite right of course .

The problem is as I see it , bloke A looks like he has an agenda and a dislike for bloke B , bloke B also seems to have an agenda and a dislike for bloke A

And of course, bloke B wouldn't have felt that way, had bloke A not written his prejudiced bile in the first place!

Study 'cause and effect'. I also had no knowledge of, or contact with, Marc Phillips up until that point.

Now I really must insist that this part of the discussion ends here, as it's becoming tediously circular, therefore any further posts of that nature will be removed without further warning.

Marco.