Which would you keep?

There was a period when i didn't have a tt and i moved around alot.I thought to myself,i don't play them might as well sell them.Even when times were tough,i could never bring myself to do it.Instead they came with me taking up space just sitting there.

So i agree with some here,that it's more than just the music its self,there's memories and feelings that go along with it also.

Quote:

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Whilst I accept that in modern times people's lives have changed, it is *precisely* the dehumanising effect you have just described which I hate (and refuse to embrace) about today's computer-driven, technology obsessed, world.

It's so easy getting sucked into living a life driven by insidious marketing (and in the process technology subconsciously dictating how we live, rather than us using it moderation), to the extent that most folk don't even realise that it's happening to them! :eek:

In effect, we've become a nation of technology tarts, and as such, more robot-like by the day.... :rolleyes:

Long may I own the physical and tactile personal possessions which define me as a human being; and most importantly, as an individual. And my treasured music collection is one of them.

Marco.

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While i tend to agree with the points you have made here,i wouldn't go as far as saying computers or technology are dehumanising,but more there implementation can be dehumanising.

If someone makes a piece of music using nothing but computers and it connects with thousands of people,emotionally,socially,spiritually ect,is that dehumanising?

If someone gives an awe inspiring speech or presentation ect,which can motivate people to achieve something better and this can be transmited around the world in a matter of minutes,is this dehumanising?

When i go snowboarding,everyone has harddrives with them full of music.We can swap drives check out each others music,discover new bands ect.When we go to the local bars,we can have such a varied selection of music playing by simply plugging in someones harddrive and then either taking the piss out of there music tastes or getting the whole bar enjoying something they might not of heard before.
This to me is not dehumanising,but in fact the opposite :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by griffo104

Jerry, have you thought of adding a computer to your listening habits ?

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Yes, I've thought about it, but it doesn't do it for me.

I've a strong, personal and, I am happy to admit, illogical aversion to connecting a computer to my hifi. It's just not something that I want to do.

... maybe it's something about spending my entire career concerned with aspects of the IT industry! :eyebrows:

The very last thing I want to do at home is feck about with computers! :lol:

And the original question was.... “If you had to choose b/w them, which would you keep, your hi-fi or your music collection? And, why. “
Although a theoretical question, it does seem to have stirred weighty considerations of the dilemna, and we are all entitled to our individual opinions and justifications, irrespective of what anyone else thinks.
I'm not sure the criticisms of modern technology or personal feelings of others are merited though.
The thought of being surrounded in silence and memorabilia alone would be like one foot in the grave to me.... Imagine the hell of being grateful to see a Bose system.....

Hi Darren,

You make some very good points, all of which I agree with :)

Quote:

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While i tend to agree with the points you have made here,i wouldn't go as far as saying computers or technology are dehumanising,but more there implementation can be dehumanising.

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Yes, but for me, any technology which makes us use the God-given skills we were born with LESS, is dehmanising us, and I'll cite some examples of this in a minute.

Quote:

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If someone makes a piece of music using nothing but computers and it connects with thousands of people,emotionally,socially,spiritually ect,is that dehumanising?

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Nope; it has precisely the opposite effect, and is simply a valid example (of which there are many) of where technology can enrichen our lives. I own some of that very music on vinyl, which is mostly of the trance/electronic genre, and when I'm in the right mood, it is utterly fantastic!

For me, it comes down to a question of moderation. Almost anything in moderation is good for us in some way; it's when things are taken to extremes and dominate our lives that they become bad.

My view is that technology should be respected and used considerately, in moderation, in areas of our lives where it can make a genuine improvement, during circumstances where solely human intervention cannot achieve the same desired result.

Quote:

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If someone gives an awe inspiring speech or presentation ect,which can motivate people to achieve something better and this can be transmited around the world in a matter of minutes,is this dehumanising?

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Nope. It's another valid example where the effect of using technology is good.

Quote:

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When i go snowboarding,everyone has harddrives with them full of music.We can swap drives check out each others music,discover new bands ect.When we go to the local bars,we can have such a varied selection of music playing by simply plugging in someones harddrive and then either taking the piss out of there music tastes or getting the whole bar enjoying something they might not of heard before.
This to me is not dehumanising,but in fact the opposite

---

Absolutely - and ditto, as per my previous reply.

Technology succeeds in dehumanising us when:

*Children can no longer read, write or communicate properly because mobile phones, texting, and Internet social networking sites have robbed them of the need to use those basic human skills - providing of course that they were taught them properly in the first place, which these days one cannot take as a 'given'.

What state of affairs have we reached when children in the SAME ROOM would rather text each other on mobile phones, in order to 'communicate', than open their mouths and SPEAK??? *That* is the ultimate example of dehumanisation via technology!

*Able-bodied people would rather send emails to friends and/or family than pick up the phone, or (shock, horror!) go and visit them, should they live nearby... Could you imagine a scarier concept than getting off of your backside and moving, or horror of horrors, actually TALKING face-to-face with a fellow human being?? :wowzer:

*On-line shopping is slowly killing the high-streets of our towns by forcing long-established family-run businesses to close their premises because they can't compete financially with heavily discounting on-line retailers.

*People would rather click on a mouse, buying their groceries from supermarket websites and having it delivered to their doors, than getting off of their backsides and physically selecting them from the actual shops where they came from, and taking their groceries home with them instead. No wonder that as a nation we're becoming lazier, more obese and unhealthier than ever!

*We are forced to abandon perfectly good technology, as a result of goods made from older technology being made commercially obsolete, for something inferior that marketing men have decided we should have instead, thus creating an unhealthy obsession with gadgetry, and today's rather horrific 'disposable society'.

I could go on, but hopefully you're getting the picture... ;)

Marco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobbasrah

The thought of being surrounded in silence and memorabilia alone would be like one foot in the grave to me.... Imagine the hell of being grateful to see a Bose system.....

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Bob, don't you have a wife/partner and/or friends and family with whom to share your passions?

If not, then perhaps that's why you feel the way you do. "Being surrounded in silence and memorabilia alone" is far removed from the reality of my life! ;)

Marco.

Well it seems this thread is going to run and run!

Apologies for ‘shouting’ in my post, but it did seem as though the answer to the OP was so dammed obvious that there was no need for discussion.

Yet Jerry’s thought provoking post, which runs against the feelings of most of the responders, is just that: thought provoking and deserves further comment. I still remain convinced that if it were a clear choice between my music collection and my system, it would be the music collection every time. That doesn’t mean I would set out to replace my system with the same items that I had – I would most likely buy ‘new’, modern and well-regarded items of gear. But Jerry is a self confessed ‘box-swapper’ for reasons he eloquently outlined in another thread.

So let’s consider starting out again to build up a music collection. Well, unless struck by an acute case of amnesia (or heaven forbid, a stroke), I would have a memory of my musical history, so would be as likely to include items of those artists and musical genres that I had. Not every thing of course, that would be impossible: many albums are long out of print with little chance of re-issue, and some of them are, with hindsight, of less interest to me than they were. But my tastes would not have changed, so my new collection would not be so different, at least in musical styles.

I am always looking for new music as well as re-discovering music that I had (to my loss) dismissed in my youth: Tamla Motown, soul, and stuff on the Atlantic label for example. AoS’s ‘Spinning Today’ thread is a mine of new listening for me, and is the first thread I visit when I log on. The ‘Album club’ is also a very useful source of ‘new’ music for me. So there would be some different items in my ‘new’ collection, but fundamentally it would not be so very different.

I don’t understand André’s approach whereby the hardware seems to be more important than the software, but I have probably misunderstood his thoughts.

My conviction hasn’t changed, but I would like to thank Jerry for “thinking the unthinkable”, or for “thinking outside the box” – I certainly made me think!



Regarding e-Books, Kindles and the like. I can understand their appeal, but they are not for me. I don’t like reading off a screen and much prefer the tactile experience of printed books (preferably hardback): the feel and yes, the smell. When I travel I’m quite happy to take a couple of paperbacks with me to read whilst waiting at airports. Kindles are stiff, solid and vulnerable, and as I say, I don’t like reading off a screen: never have done. At work I would print off large amounts of text onto paper, rather than read off the screen. So much for the “paperless office”!

Quote:

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I could go on, but hopefully you're getting the picture... ;)

Marco.

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I get the picture marco :) and fully agree,when technology is used excessively in the way you described.Text speak being
particularly high on my list of the way tech has made people lazy and dumbed down,im no einstein,but i try at least.

In answer to the OP,music first and foremost!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barry

I don’t understand André’s approach whereby the hardware seems to be more important than the software, but I have probably misunderstood his thoughts.

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People change & so do their habbits. Many moons ago when i first got serious about hifi & had so much money i was changing equipment like crazy, there wasnt anything i hadnt had at one point or another, this be the very early 80's. & putting together such a collection of rare LP's i literally had no where to house them. Remember i was still young & all i knew was present time hi-fi components, as i matured i got to reading about vintage Hi-fi,it was different, seemed to have lots more character to what i was presently using.. my love for vintage grew & grew. It got to a stage where actual music too a back seat, from then the music was getting unimportant!

Since my very early intrests in Vintage ive always always had an attraction for the Ferrograph Series Seven Equipment, no other brand apart from the early Castle Acoustics Loudspeakers have had such a prelonged effect on me, a love affair that will no doubt last forever.

You may think i'm crazy but it's taken me six 'F307' amplifiers & nine series seven open reels to get the cosmetic parts together to create the mint items i own today. I could never ever ever part with them.

That clears the hifi bit up & as to why they are so so important to me.

As for music, it's still to this day has less of an intrest to me than my gear does.. i find myself listerning to a lesser & lesser selection of music, what i do listern most of is not the obscure Psych & Prog i so prized within my early collection but the more common garden side (if you like) of the music, hence they are very easy to source.

I'm even considering buying another vintage turntable & sourcing just these records but big collections are no more with me.All other music will be plain old CD on open Reel, I use technology to feed off but dont rely on it as a source. if you get my meaning.

I am a complex mixed up character so bare with me cos i'm crap at putting my thang across in writing :D

Hi Barry,

Quote:

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I don’t like reading off a screen and much prefer the tactile experience of printed books (preferably hardback): the feel and yes, the smell. When I travel I’m quite happy to take a couple of paperbacks with me to read whilst waiting at airports. Kindles are stiff, solid and vulnerable, and as I say, I don’t like reading off a screen: never have done. At work I would print off large amounts of text onto paper, rather than read off the screen.

---

I can totally relate to that, especially to the bits in bold! The only exception to that is when I'm on here. But what you describe is precisely why I couldn't live with on-line magazines or newspapers, not that I bother with the latter these days, even in a paper format.

Reading reams of text on a screen gets on my nerves, as does typing sometimes on a computer, which is why most of my posts these days are spur-of-the-moment 'bursts', where if possible, I am able to get things off of my chest all in one go. Fortunately, I can type pretty fast and reasonably accurately, and so can rattle off large paragraphs of prose within minutes!

Not being arsed typing is also one of the reasons why instead of replying to PMs, I often ask people to phone me. It's usually much quicker, more effective, and the whole experience is rather more, well, 'human' ;)

Marco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by F307

People change & so do their habbits. Many moons ago when i first got serious about hifi & had so much money i was changing equipment like crazy, there wasnt anything i hadnt had at one point or another, this be the very early 80's. & putting together such a collection of rare LP's i literally had no where to house them. Remember i was still young & all i knew was present time hi-fi components, as i matured i got to reading about vintage Hi-fi,it was different, seemed to have lots more character to what i was presently using.. my love for vintage grew & grew. It got to a stage where actual music too a back seat, from then the music was getting unimportant!

Since my very early intrests in Vintage ive always always had an attraction for the Ferrograph Series Seven Equipment, no other brand apart from the early Castle Acoustics Loudspeakers have had such a prelonged effect on me, a love affair that will no doubt last forever.

You may think i'm crazy but it's taken me six 'F307' amplifiers & nine series seven open reels to get the cosmetic parts together to create the mint items i own today. I could never ever ever part with them.

That clears the hifi bit up & as to why they are so so important to me.

As for music, it's still to this day has less of an intrest to me as my gear does i find myself listerning to lesser & lesser selection of music, what i do listern most of is not the obscure Psych & Prog i so prized within my early collection but the more common garden side (if you like) of the music, hence they are very easy to source.

I'm even considering buying another vintage turntable & sourcing just these records but big collections are no more with me.All other music will be plain old CD on open Reel, I use technology to feed off but dont rely on it as a source. if you get my meaning.

I am a complex mixed up character so bear with me :D

---

Excellent insight, dude, into the reasons why you make your decisions. So thanks for sharing. It's always good to know what makes people 'tick' :)

Marco.

Hi André,

Thanks for your reply - I understand now. With all the time and effort you have put into restoring 'vintage' gear, especially Ferrographs, I can now understand the vested interest and attachment the gear has for you.

What vintage deck will be going for? Something of the '70s to '80s?

Regards

Thanks Barry

It would be 60's as Id like my old Transcriptor 'Hyd Ref/10'' Fluid arm/ADC i used to own but the prices are mad on second had market. Again the turntable i fell in love with on first encounter. Being a massive Clockwork Orange fan it be only right :eyebrows:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by F307

Thanks Barry

It would be 60's as I'd like my old Transcriptor 'Hyd Ref/10'' Fluid arm/ADC I used to own but the prices are mad on second had market. Again the turntable I fell in love with on first encounter. Being a massive Clockwork Orange fan it be only right :eyebrows:

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:lol: I know what you mean!

I have a soft spot for ADC cartridges, especially the 10E Mk. IV and the 25 and 26. I think the Transcriptors Fluid arm has a low enough mass to allow the 25/26 cartridges to run in it. I'm sure Dave (DSJR) will be able to advise.

Regards

PS I like your new 'moniker': what else could it be?

:eyebrows:

Was the 10E..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barry

My conviction hasn’t changed, but I would like to thank Jerry for “thinking the unthinkable”, or for “thinking outside the box” – I certainly made me think!

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Well, thanks for that. :) It's often what Marco sets out to do, so Marco and I perhaps have even more in common than we thought. :)

Although I might be about to diverge a bit from him here ....

I've been giving some thought to 'emotional attachment to music'. And I've come to the conclusion that I don't have any.
I play music because I enjoy it, or find it interesting for one reason or another.
I don't keep a recording or an album cos my dear ol' mum (maysherestinpeace) bequeathed it to me on her deathbed, or because it was playing when I had my first shag, or ... well, you get the idea. :eyebrows:

I am free of any such emotional attachments - I can't think of a single example that applies to me.

I just enjoy music for its own sake, and tbh I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. :) But perhaps it makes it more understandable why I came to the conclusion that I did about the original question posed here.

Hi Barry,

Quote:

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I still remain convinced that if it were a clear choice between my music collection and my system, it would be the music collection every time. That doesn’t mean I would set out to replace my system with the same items that I had – I would most likely buy ‘new’, modern and well-regarded items of gear.

---

Why? Shouldn't the defining criteria be whatever equipment performs best, sonically, to your ears, regardless of its age?

I would no sooner use all vintage gear, if it sounded pants, compared to the best modern kit, than I would do vice versa! ;)

I'm therefore completely agnostic, in terms of the age of the equipment I would choose to use. For me, sonic performance must always come first, ahead of any romantic feelings of nostalgia, or the desire to own the 'latest toy'.

Marco.

Hi Jerry,

Quote:

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I've been giving some thought to 'emotional attachment to music'. And I've come to the conclusion that I don't have any.
I play music because I enjoy it, or find it interesting for one reason or another.

I don't keep a recording or an album cos my dear ol' mum (maysherestinpeace) bequeathed it to me on her deathbed, or because it was playing when I had my first shag, or ... well, you get the idea. :eyebrows:

---

Interesting... Don't you own any records which you grew up with listening to as a child, and so for you they have developed a special significance? What music did you grow up with? What music did your parents play at home?

What music did you listen to in your bedroom with your friends, as a teenager? What music did you swap with friends at school?

What music did you choose at your wedding when your wife and you had your first dance? What music would you request be played at your funeral, and why? What would be your chosen 'desert island discs', and why?

Surely any (or all) of what you list, from the above, qualify as being music that you have an emotional attachment to?

As Poirot says, that should get 'the leetle grey cells' going! ;)

Marco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Jerry,

Interesting... Don't you own any records which you grew up with listening to as a child, and so for you they have developed a special significance? No. What music did you grow up with? I have none now that I do not currently enjoy. It has no significance for me beyond that. What music did your parents play at home? Not a lot. My mother liked a bit of romantic opera, I can't stand the stuff.

What music did you listen to in your bedroom with your friends, as a teenager? I have none now that I do not currently enjoy. It has no significance for me beyond that. What music did you swap with friends at school? Ditto.

What music did you choose at your wedding when your wife and you had your first dance? We didn't choose much of anything, nor did we dance! What music would you request be played at your funeral, and why? I've told my wife that she can arrange whatever she sees fit for my funeral. I couldn't give a damn. What would be your chosen 'desert island discs', and why? Choices would be for enjoyment not emotional attachment.

Surely any (or all) of what you list, from the above, qualify as being music that you have an emotional attachment to?

Well they would if I had answered any in the affirmative! :lol: ... you really cannot catch me out, you know! ;) As I said before, I really have given this some thought.
As Poirot says, that should get 'the leetle grey cells' going! ;)

Marco.

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:eyebrows:

Sure. But no offence, mate, I can't help but feel some of the answers are a little sad, and also somewhat inconclusive...

Marco.

Sure, I'd expect that - we are very different people. I don't feel sad at all ... I have other things that I am emotionally attached to. We're just different, is all. :)

Inconclusive?

Yup - such as your response of "I have none now that I do not currently enjoy", which doesn't relate to nor answer some of questions you were asked.

Would you like me to highlight the questions I'm referring to? :)

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I have other things that I am emotionally attached to

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Other than the obvious, like loved ones, such as?

Marco.

... well, on the Desert Island Disc thing, I might relent a little and select something from Gilbert & Sullivan, which is really the only musical genre that the missus and I enjoy together. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Yup - such as your response of "I have none now that I do not currently enjoy", which doesn't relate to nor answer some of questions you were asked.

Would you like me to highlight the questions I'm referring to? :)



Other than the obvious, like loved ones, such as?

Marco.

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Ah, -- hmm. I think that my response is an appropriate one for the questions. I don't understand the issue you raise. So yes, feel free to highlight and explain the text accordingly.

Okies... I asked:

Quote:

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What music did you grow up with?

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You replied:

Quote:

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I have none now that I do not currently enjoy.

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The answer is either none, or a list of the relevant music. Your reply doesn't really make sense.

I also asked:

Quote:

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What music did you listen to in your bedroom with your friends, as a teenager?

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You replied (yet again):

Quote:

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I have none now that I do not currently enjoy.

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...which again doesn't make much sense. The correct reply, as before, would be none, or a list of some of the relevant music. For me, it looks as if you're trying to hide something...

Btw, I'm not getting at you here; merely trying to understand properly where you're coming from :cool:

Marco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

The answer is either none, or a list of the relevant music. Your reply doesn't really make sense.

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Yep, no problem. I'm not feeling got at. I've not really looked at my music collection from this perspective before, but because of this thread I have now been thinking about it.

OK - I was being a bit lazy - perhaps.

I could list all the music me and my schoolmates used to enjoy together (a long list) and then point out that the ones I still have (e.g. Supertramp Crime of the Century) I only have because I still enjoy them.

I thought the short response is fine - unless you want me to 'prove' item by item that I only have stuff that I like in my collection and that I don't have any stuff that I no longer enjoy but only keep cos my old schoolmate Graham liked it. I don't have any of that - honest!

Does that answer your questions now? :scratch:

Well, the clarification certainly provides more insight into your 'music history' than the first answers you gave did! ;)

Supertramp's 'Crime of the Century', from what you say, would appear to qualify as music that you have *some* emotional connection with, particularly as it's the first time I've noticed you mention music, with some fondness, that is not classical in genre.

Marco.

I just like the music in Crime of the Century - there is nothing whatsoever in that choice beyond that.

I think you are failing to see things from a perspective other than your own! ;)
Not everyone has the same outlook as you. :)

Yes, I listen to a fair bit of non-classical - Nazareth, Dougie McClean, Loreena McKennit, The Buggles ... etc etc. All are important to me because I like or am emotionally involved by the music. That's all there is to it! :lol:

That's fine, but it's the first time I've seen you mention any of that type of music on AoS.

It certainly never appears in the relevant 'Spinning Today' thread, as you only contribute to the classical one...

Anyway, thanks for the info. In that respect, we are indeed very different, which I guess is what makes the world go round! ;)

Marco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

That's fine, but it's the first time I've seen you mention any of that music.

It certainly never appears in the relevant 'Spinning Today' thread, as you only contribute to the classical one...

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Well, I feel sure that you will correct me if you think I have this wrong (!), but by & large the non-classical spinning today just tends to be lists of things played with no discussion. :zzz: ... yes, I know there are exceptions, but by and large I think that's true.

I've struggled quite hard in the classical spinning today thread to make it a centre for discussion & involvement, and personally I think that works well. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jandl100

Yes, I listen to a fair bit of non-classical - Nazareth

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Jeez, that's taking me back to 1973.

Nazareth ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StanleyB

Jeez, that's taking me back to 1973.

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Hair of the Dog :guitar::rock::hairmetal:

That's fine, Jerry - I get that.

Quote:

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Well, I feel sure that you will correct me if you think I have this wrong (!), but by & large the non-classical spinning today just tends to be lists of things played with no discussion.

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In reality, it's more a mixture of both. Some folks like to extrapolate on their listening choices, and have the skills to do that job rather well.

Others, such as me, (in general) mostly just listen to 'choons' that make us smile and feel happy (nothing much deeper or more 'meaningful' than that); therefore a list of some of the music I've been listening to recently, suffices. In that respect, I'm a simple soul.

Bear in mind also that, as I work from home, I can spend 8-10 hours a day listening to music, and so I play more albums in a day than I could ever hope to discuss here in a meaningful way.

And anyway, the thought of 'intellectualising' my music listening fills me with horror - probably as much as it does you trying to identify what you have an emotional connection with! :D

Marco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Barry,

Why? Shouldn't the defining criteria be whatever equipment performs best, sonically, to your ears, regardless of its age?

I would no sooner use all vintage gear, if it sounded pants, compared to the best modern kit, than I would do vice versa! ;)

I'm therefore completely agnostic, in terms of the age of the equipment I would choose to use. For me, sonic performance must always come first, ahead of any romantic feelings of nostalgia, or the desire to own the 'latest toy'.

Marco.

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Most of my equipment is 'vintage' because it was bought some time ago at a price I could then afford at the time. I rarely audition new gear these days because, with few exceptions, I cannot afford the thousands of pounds usually asked, so there doesn't seem much point.

I do attend the occasional hi-fi show and get an opportunity to hear some new gear, though not necessarily under the best of conditions. Stuff I like is always way out of my price range.

Vintage gear is now becoming so expensive and rare, that I would most likely seek out used, second-hand samples of 'new' products that do sound good to my ears. It pains me to say this, but some of these can be found on eBay for a reasonable price if you are patient and keep your eyes open.

It has nothing to do with "owning the latest toy", although I do believe that significant advances have been made in some areas: small stand-mounted speakers for example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

That's fine, Jerry - I get that.



In reality, it's more a mixture of both. Some folks like to extrapolate on their listening choices, and have the skills to do that job rather well.

Others, such as me, (in general) mostly just listen to 'choons' that make us smile and feel happy (nothing much deeper or more 'meaningful' than that); therefore a list of some of the music I've been listening to recently, suffices. In that respect, I'm a simple soul.

Bear in mind also that, as I work from home, I can spend 8-10 hours a day listening to music, and so I play more albums in a day than I could ever hope to discuss in a meaningful way.

And anyway, the thought of 'intellectualising' my music listening fills me with horror - probably as much as it does you trying to identify what you have an emotional connection with! :D

Marco.

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Yep, more differences between us!

"Intellectualising" well, not really. Sure, some folks do, a bit, some folks don't.
But just a title or an image of an album cover provides me with no useful information at all. If you like something, then why not share the joy and try and explain why so others may be tempted to try it?

Would I like it? Should I get it for myself? ... no information provided by a mere title, none at all. So I can't be arsed to involve myself, tbh!

Anyway, enough of my sermonising! :lol:

Sure, I getcha. A lot of the stuff I listen to people will know anyway, so it needs no introduction, but if it's something more obscure I'll sometimes add a few lines describing what it is. In that sense, simply listing the music you're listening to can spark someone else into perhaps playing the same album that they haven't listened to in ages, making them 'rediscover' it in the process, which is a good thing :)

By "intellectualising" my music listening I mean the way that people sometimes describe what they're hearing as being in the style of so-and-so from such-and-such a band from 30 years ago, or something (you might do a similar thing with conductors or composers), using flowery prose in the process that one would find in the likes of Mojo - that ain't me. I'm also no music 'geek' or historian.

It always amazes me the kind of 'Top Trumps', near-encyclopaedic knowledge of music that some people have...

For example, I could never meaningfully participate in threads in the music room, such as 'The Lyrics Thread' or 'Degrees of Separation', simply because a) I rarely pay attention to or absorb the lyrics in songs (I'm simply a 'tunes and rhythms' man), so in that respect I wouldn't have a clue, and b) because I don't possess the necessary historical knowledge to participate in the latter, in the way the likes of Barry, Nick, Chris or Alex can - and indeed enjoy doing. And I respect their knowledge.

Quite honestly, I couldn't tell you who the members are of half of the bands that I listen to, or who they once may have played with, or what 'style' of guitar playing a particular guitarist has in comparison with another. I just don't 'connect' with music on that level. I have a certain amount of musical knowledge, based on what has 'stuck' over the years, but I simply can't engage in the level of in-depth analysis that some people are capable of.

I simply play stuff I like and groove along to it, perhaps if it's music from the 80s that I grew up with, reminiscing about what I was doing 'back in the day', when a particular song is playing, without needing to search for any 'deeper meaning' from the experience, or entering into any more detail about it than that. That's why you'll never read any 'epistles' from me on the subject of music: I just do my own thing quietly and get on with it.

And as for classical music, I simply don't know enough about it to describe what I'm listening to in a meaningful way. I just know what I like when I hear it (Shostakovich, for example), and so I just play that and enjoy it on an informal, fairly superficial, 'non-intellectually taxing', way! :cool:

I do listen to many hours of different music every day, though. I simply couldn't live without it.

Marco.

Fair enough, Marco. All good points. :)

But the different approaches to hifi and music are very noticeable!!

Absolutely - and all are valid. Thank goodness we're all different, otherwise it would be a very boring world! :D

Marco.

Nothing wrong with discussing or intellectualising music.

I think the the reason you get more discussion on the classical blog may be down to the many different versions of a piece and conductor/orchestra combos that people tend to prefer.

In the non-classical section it's a bit like discussing cover versions - it just doesn't really happen when listening to a rock or indie album.

I love chatting about music, it's why I enjoy seeing what different people listen to in the album club and why they listen to it - so there is that discussion but it's much more formal.

Having had the pleasure of visiting Jerry and listening to his hifi AND his music and seeing his reaction to some of it, there's definitely a fair amount of passion going on there :D (and some pain when my Art Blakey was going on as well).

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Nothing wrong with discussing or intellectualising music.

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Indeed not, if that's your 'thang'. The latter, however, doesn't interest me one iota; in fact it can quite often bore me to tears, especially when snobbery or elitism rears its ugly head! :rolleyes:

I've always preferred listening to music than talking about it. I'll talk about hi-fi until the cows come home, but then I've 'studied' that subject more. I don't study music; I simply play it and immerse myself in it my own way, gleaning from it what I will, in the process. Whatever sticks, sticks, and whatever doesn't, doesn't.

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I love chatting about music, it's why I enjoy seeing what different people listen to in the album club and why they listen to it - so there is that discussion but it's much more formal.

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I do too, up to a certain point, but it has to be about music I can relate to or stuff I would be interested in. However, I'm much more of the 'play it, enjoy it and shut up' school of musical appreciation! :eyebrows:

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Having had the pleasure of visiting Jerry and listening to his hifi AND his music and seeing his reaction to some of it, there's definitely a fair amount of passion going on there :D (and some pain when my Art Blakey was going on as well).

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Lol... No doubt old Jezza lurves his choons!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

I do too, up to a certain point, and it has to be with music I can relate to. However, I'm much more of the 'play it, enjoy it and shut up' school of musical appreciation! :eyebrows:

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Relating to music is difficult thing. I started off as a teenage metal head but over the years my love of classical and jazz has made me realise that sometimes you really need to hear something new to expand your musical horizons.

going back to when I was younger - say about 25 - if someone told me I'd have a few hundred classical recordings I'd have had a good laugh at them but things change and sometimes you just hear a piece which triggers something off in you - in my case with classical it was Shotakovish and subsequently reading about him and his music and Stalin (I was reading a lot of Marx and Engels at the time so the whole Communist thing interested me).

I've had a problem with films. Having watched some very serious cinema in my formative years it became very easy to dismiss a lot of Hollywood as being cheap and having no real depth to it. It became to a point where it was pure snobbery on my part. I still enjoy serious cinema but I've learnt to switch off and enjoy a good action film for what it is (I still struggle with some of the crude stuff they regard as comedy though at the moment).

I can understand how it's easy to dismiss some music as it's not your 'thing' but every now and again your 'thing' gets readjusted :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Indeed not, if that's your 'thang'. The latter, however, doesn't interest me one iota; in fact it can quite often bore me to tears, especially when snobbery rears its ugly head! :rolleyes:

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Well, some folks can get snobbish about anything ... music or hifi or anything else.

Sensible folks just like to have a friendly and informative chat and exchange views and information about things they are passionate about. :)

Hi Griffo,

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I've had a problem with films. Having watched some very serious cinema in my formative years it became very easy to dismiss a lot of Hollywood as being cheap and having no real depth to it. It became to a point where it was pure snobbery on my part. I still enjoy serious cinema but I've learnt to switch off and enjoy a good action film for what it is (I still struggle with some of the crude stuff they regard as comedy though at the moment).

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It's interesting that you say should that, and I know exactly what you mean. I would never judge or condemn anyone for what films or music that they enjoy. However, it's the snob-factor/elitist aspect you mention with music or films (or indeed, as Jerry says, it can also apply to many things) which turns me right off. As a wine connoisseur, for example, I often encounter those unfortunate traits in aspiring 'wine buffs'.

With regard to films, there's nothing more boring for me than listening to a bunch of bow-tied 'luvvies', pretending to be Barry Norman, critiquing some obscure French film, and chuntering on about the complexity of the plot, dialogue used, or its 'production value' - often simply for effect, in a futile attempt at being clever. For me, that is serious yawnsville, not to mention pathetic! :rolleyes:

Even though I can both write and speak French to a reasonably high standard (Italian fluently), and so don't always need subtitles, I would rather spend the time bottling my botty burps, than sitting through much of that, IMO, pretentious foreign film shite. Some French films, however, can be quite good. I very much enjoyed Amélie, for example. But for me, they are few and far between.

Nope, generally when it comes to films, I have simple tastes. Give me a good black comedy, thriller, war film, western, science fiction or horror movie (not really the gory stuff, based on thrills from special effects, but the really dark psychological shit that fucks with your head) any day!!

When I indulge in recreational activities, such as watching films, I like to relax, chill-out and be entertained informally, not 'intellectually challenged' or participating in exercises in academia - and the same applies when I'm listening to music :)

Marco.

I quite enjoy listening, reading or watching something challenging that can make me think (Tarkovsky's wonderful films for instance) but you have to know where to draw the line between listening to something challenging simply for the sake of it being challenging - there's only so many times you can listen to Schoenberg before you realise not only is it challenging but it's bloody boring as well :mental:

tha same can be said of that great work of literature Joyce's Ulysses. you read it for the challenge, but would you read it to entertain yourself ? I'm sure some would, personally that's the line in the sand for me - Pynchon is just as challenging and far more entertaining, imo.

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Originally Posted by griffo104

there's only so many times you can listen to Schoenberg before you realise not only is it challenging but it's bloody boring as well :mental:

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LOL - I hear you. Then again, I like Ligeti which some would find difficult. Or Portishead, for that matter. Each to their own.

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Originally Posted by MartinT

LOL - I hear you. Then again, I like Ligeti which some would find difficult. Or Portishead, for that matter. Each to their own.

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I like Portishead (their last album was sublime) and Ligeti too :D

I'm unfamiliar with Ligeti... Could someone point me to examples of his best work? :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by jazzpiano

If you had to choose b/w them, which would you keep, your hi-fi or your music collection? And, why. (Please no comments like "What good's a music collection without a hi-fi?", or vice-versa. You can sort out what's missing later...)

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I'd say 'the musc', but having said that, I know my favourite recordings so well I can play them in my head anyway (and they often sound better that way).

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Originally Posted by Marco

I'm unfamiliar with Ligeti... Could someone point me to examples of his best work? :)

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His Requiem. It is quite unlike anything you've ever heard. Mesmerising and quite disturbing in places.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ligeti-Requi...9934649&sr=8-1

Cheers, Martin. I'll check it out. From your description, it sounds like my sort of thing :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by jandl100

Yes, I listen to a fair bit of non-classical - Nazareth,

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:rock:


Rock on, Jerry.


:fingers::fingers::fingers: