The Mike New ETP Platter

I've had the chance to sample Mike New's competitor to the Funk Firm platter for the Technics SL-12xx series direct drive turntable, the 'ETP'. This platter is made of a very dense plastic called ETP (Engineering Thermo Plastic) or, commercially, Delrin. It's a precision material that lends itself well to machining and shaping. The ETP is a one-piece design with no separate mat required. This could help cost considerations when comparing with other platters that require a mat. There is a slight indent for the record label, otherwise the surface is flat bar the two threaded holes for inserting bolts to ease lifting the platter off the bearing. The top half of the platter has an exact 12" diameter, which really helps when lifting and placing records; the bottom half is sized to fit the recess in the chassis. The finish is very smart in black and there is sufficient depth even for those, like me, who have fitted the base plate modification to strengthen the bearing mount, lifting it a few mm in the process. Delrin is, by design, an inert material with great internal damping. When I strike it while in position on the bearing, it sounds as dead as a very dead thing.

Swapping over the magnet assembly to the new platter, things are a tight fit and I found it best to align the trailing edge of a tooth on the speed sensor cog exactly with the red dot before tightening down with the three hex bolts provided, using them to pull it into the recess. I also applied a little Vaseline to the rim of the magnet assembly to make future removal a little easier. Another dab went onto the taper of the Mike New bearing (per Mike's advice) before lifting the platter over the spindle and dropping it in place. Fit is excellent with absolutely no movement or rocking between taper and platter.

The ETP is heavier than the Funk at 2.3kg versus 1.4kg for the Funk / Achromat or 2kg for the stock platter. Rotational momentum is also about the same as stock, judging by the brake adjustment required to get the platter to stop, which was dead centre of the potentiometer travel in my Mk. II. This is a handy reckoner for any given platter, the original metal MN platter requiring almost the full adjustment travel to get the motor to stop it dead.

So to the sound: well, I'm officially impressed. The ETP sounds to my ears better overall and more exciting than the Funk platter with Achromat. The improvements are specifically in the upper midrange / lower treble area, where there is more detail, edge definition and overall clarity. In fact, that’s it in a nutshell. These attributes make the whole very much more enjoyable, with a sense of verve and musicality that’s infectious. It doesn’t make a bad recording sound good, but at least I hear more of what went in even if it’s horribly limited. Take a good recording, however, and I am definitely hearing more than I’ve heard before. Vocal harmonies are better separated, allowing the individual voices to be differentiated. Plucked acoustic and electric string have a degree of edge definition I've not heard before. Struck drums have more shape to them. This is not a brighter sound, it's more that there is tonal shading in that all-important upper midrange area where things were in retrospect a little grey. Dynamics are helped because of the better-defined shape of transient notes, not something my Technics lacks but it's always very welcome. Overall, it makes a very compelling sound indeed and I find myself pulling more and more vinyl from my shelves.

The ETP platter is a really superbly engineered product, Mike - thank you. I'm buying this one.

http://www.mikenewaudio.com/


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2811/1...09c35217_b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2828/1...0510a6c8_b.jpg

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Originally Posted by MartinT

The ETP platter is a really superbly engineered product, Mike - thank you. I'm buying this one.

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Hahahaha - that was quick!!! :eek: :scratch: :lol:

Have you tried it yet with the Achromat? I'd be curious to know what effect that has.

Marco.

Interesting review in that no mat was required Martin. I have always thought a hard material may sound better (oyaide mat as an example)
and a lot of the higher end turntables have delrin platters.

I hope Marcos platter turns up soon!

David, did your Techy have an ETP platter fitted when I heard it at your bake off? And if so, did it have a mat on it? I can't remember.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

David, did your Techy have an ETP platter fitted when I heard it at your bake off? And if so, did it have a mat on it? I can't remember.

Marco.

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It had the vantage platter on chief with NO mat, just vinyl direct onto copper, am I alone in thinking mats are not needed here?

Dunno, but I suspect that the results will (as always) be system-dependent. Thanks for the clarification, though :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

I hope Marcos platter turns up soon!

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Indeed... I can promise you one thing, though - I won't be reaching such a definitive conclusion so quickly! ;)

That, incidentally, is no slight on Martin, as he obviously felt that in his system the improvement with the ETP was so obvious, he had to have it. However, I tend to leave things more on a 'slow burn' before conclusively making up my mind on anything in audio.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Indeed... I can promise you one thing, though - I won't be reaching such a definitive conclusion so quickly! ;)

That, incidentally, is no slight on Martin, as he obviously felt that in his system the improvement with the ETP was so obvious, he had to have it. However, I tend to leave things more on a 'slow burn' before conclusively making up my mind on anything in audio.

Marco.

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That's you, most of us can here instantaneously if something is better! :ner:

Only messin of course :)

So how long is a slow burn? The platter is 30 days to make up your mind

That'll be enough! :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hahahaha - that was quick!!! :eek: :scratch: :lol:

Have you tried it yet with the Achromat? I'd be curious to know what effect that has.

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Not really, I've had enough time to form a positive opinion that isn't going to change. The ETP works better on its own, I tried it with the Achromat but that then goes back a step towards the Funk sound.

So how would you describe the 'Funk sound' in comparison? :)

Marco.

Having had a MN ETP platter now for 18 months I am not surprised Martin likes it. Mine has a label recess and I have tried various mats, Achromat, Oyaide, felt and rubber. I didn't like the Achromat as it recessed midrange somewhat. The Oyaide works very well but also a felt mat, surprisingly, also works well for me.

Using just platter without a mat is also possible but I found that bass was a lot stronger, not boomy, though with some recordings far too strong for my tastes. Having said that most classical recordings, mostly symphonic, were served well with a naked platter.

I am looking forward to Marcos findings and David Brooks opinion.

John

Interesting, John... All I can say is that I'm glad I pushed for the ETP platter to be auditioned in this way. It wouldn't have happened otherwise! ;)

Marco.

Just to correct the information in Martins original posting:

ETP (Engineering Thermo Plastics) this is not a material, it is a generic term applied to all thermoplastics that have good structural properties suitable for more demanding performance criteria.

Delrin is a brand name of DuPont and this brand has approximately 20% of the market for the material, which is Polyoxymethylene (POM) sometimes called Acetal.

If you look at a recycling logo on a moulded product it will say POM.

As DuPont is primarily American the majority of UK users will use a different brand name to Delrin.

So it is more meaningful and universal to say this platter is made of POM or Acetal. ;)

Martin,

How do you find the bass? One of the benefits of the mixed Cu/Al platter was hefty bass, does this new mat lose any?

Hi Martin, Reading your review it was apparent to me you knew what you were talking about ;). Your findings were mine to a T. The ETP gives music a presentation that simply sounds right ! and as you say whilst not making bad recordings sound better which is a good sign. It was the icing on the cake for me in so much as making me realise what all the other upgrades (Mike New Bearing, arm, external psu, Isonoes etc) combined had ultimately achieved. Do me a favour Martin - Could you, if you get the chance try the ETP with the softer 3mm stock mat. I and the guy who first reviewed Mikes ETP found that combination to be best to our ears. I'm glad you've joined the ETP club, along with myself, John (Prestonchipfryer) and others, it's a lovely well thought out and well engineered upgrade platter for sure, you just get a sense it's gonna be good when you have it in your hands, and it sure does once installed and all the usual arm set up is done. :)
Blessings
Rob

Oh Andrew, I can tell you that again the bass is just right, not incorrectly lightweight but not over emphasised either - just right. If the track is bassy you'll hear it proper if it isnt you wont get more than is, if you know what i mean !

Wow seems that all of a sudden the ETP platter is now the one!!
In fact I have sold about 20 of them spread around the world since I first announced it about 18 months ago. It would seem that a sort of secondary opinion/advice network has grown around it in that time, with orders coming in from various countries in Europe the US and Canada
and of course my part of the globe.
For those that may be contemplating trying to do the same:
The matterial is indeed a variety of Delrin the generic term for a whole range of Acetals, Generally made by DuPont in Germany.
However this is a particular very high grade formula from the US made specifically for aero space, mining and chemical applications that has no voids and can be machined to high accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Mike_New

Wow seems that all of a sudden the ETP platter is now the one!!
In fact I have sold about 20 of them spread around the world since I first announced it about 18 months ago. It would seem that a sort of secondary opinion/advice network has grown around it in that time, with orders coming in from various countries in Europe the US and Canada
and of course my part of the globe.
For those that may be contemplating trying to do the same:
The matterial is indeed a variety of Delrin the generic term for a whole range of Acetals, Generally made by DuPont in Germany.
However this is a particular very high grade formula from the US made specifically for aero space, mining and chemical applications that has no voids and can be machined to high accuracy.

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Trying to copy your platter Mike or indeed make one from scratch is not for the feint hearted, I looked at Martins before I sent it and it's full of clever bits of engineering and precise set up is required as you well know, I doubt if anyone can come up with something that beats it anytime soon, if ever. The fact you sold 20 and AOS have suddenly become interested in it (which is 100% solely down to Audio Al) is good news for all Techy owners worldwide as it will now be more widely known as the platter to beat! With your bearing as well the Techy has truly come of age!

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Originally Posted by Qwin

Just to correct the information in Martins original posting:

ETP (Engineering Thermo Plastics) this is not a material, it is a generic term applied to all thermoplastics that have good structural properties suitable for more demanding performance criteria.

Delrin is a brand name of DuPont and this brand has approximately 20% of the market for the material, which is Polyoxymethylene (POM) sometimes called Acetal.

If you look at a recycling logo on a moulded product it will say POM.

As DuPont is primarily American the majority of UK users will use a different brand name to Delrin.

So it is more meaningful and universal to say this platter is made of POM or Acetal. ;)

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The first job I ever had involved stress testing strips of Amcel Acetal Copolymer and other plastics produced by American Celanese. By f*&k it was boring.

Sat in a tech lab looking out on a warehouse full of cement sized sacks of the stuff... pellets were generally everywhere.

It didn't last long... a summer job whilst still at school.

The thing is at the time that company really was producing some ground breaking plastics. Think the introduction of the plastic jug kettle. My father clinched the first sales deals with Kenwood etc and was responsible for setting up the first UK Amcel branch with a couple of other ex-ICI dudes if I remember correctly.

Yeh, Kenwood and Russell Hobbs both used Acetal on their first plastic Kettles (I designed a few for Russell Hobbs) but the material pre dates them by several decades. Acetal has some good properties and is easy to machine so not suprised to see Mike has used it on his ETP platter. DuPont developed some of the great materials, including Nylon, where the name is derived from their New York and London Laboratory's who jointly made the same break through.

It really is very thick oil!!!!

Martin. Is that no warble now at 45rpm?
Or is warble something you can live with for the other benefits?

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Originally Posted by prestonchipfryer

Using just platter without a mat is also possible but I found that bass was a lot stronger, not boomy, though with some recordings far too strong for my tastes. Having said that most classical recordings, mostly symphonic, were served well with a naked platter.

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Interesting, John. I haven't found that at all. Bass is well defined and balanced in my system.

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Originally Posted by Qwin

So it is more meaningful and universal to say this platter is made of POM or Acetal. ;)

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Thanks, Ken. I was going to mention POM but thought it was one acronym too many!

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

The fact you sold 20 and AOS have suddenly become interested in it (which is 100% solely down to Audio Al) is good news for all Techy owners worldwide as it will now be more widely known as the platter to beat!

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Lol - you do get rather over-excited sometimes, dude, and have the propensity to lose focus of the facts! :D

Firstly, Mike was selling his platters (ETP and aluminum composite) direct to people here long before you got involved.

Secondly, you and Mike wouldn't be working together in the first place, in any capacity (including you selling his platter to anyone here), if it wasn't for me asking Mike to appoint you as the UK distributor for his products, when he was a bit disheartened with sales drying up for his bearings, via their promotion soley on AoS.

You might have been talking about the platter between you for a while without finalising anything, but you wouldn't have a working partnership now, but for my intervention. It would be nice if you remembered that and had the courtesy to acknowledge it.

Thirdly, John (prestonchipfryer) was, to my knowledge, the first person on AoS to buy an ETP platter, so he must get the greatest credit for being the original one to bring the ETP to the attention of the members of AoS. I think that Rob (RobbieGong) was next to buy one and sing its praises.

Therefore, no disrespect to Al (he knows I lurves him, lol), but the daftee hasn't even fitted his platter yet, or commented in any way as to its efficacy, so I'm at a loss to see how it is 100% solely down to him why the ETP is now getting the recognition it deserves!! :eyebrows:

The reason why that is happening now, and why "AoS have suddently become interested in it", without blowing my own trumpet, is because I asked Mike to send either Martin or me (via you as his UK distributor), an ETP platter for auditioning. I pushed for that to happen because I suspected that the ETP would be very good, and because I thought it was unfair that Mike's 'other platter', as it were, wasn't getting the recognition/promotion it deserved because neither Martin nor I had had the opportunity to try it.

Of course, now Martin (whose views are widely respected, and rightly so) has tried it, likes it and has bought one, reviewing it very favourably here, the situation is rather different! When I get my ETP platter, and if I feel the same way as Martin does, and buy one, and we both proceed to promote it on the forum from now on, *then* it will be widely known as the platter to beat..... ;)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Oldpinkman

Martin. Is that no warble now at 45rpm?
Or is warble something you can live with for the other benefits?

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If you caught the point I was making about platter weights and the braking adjustment, the ETP has about the same rotational momentum as the Technics stock platter. I could hear no warble from speed correction artifacts at either speed.

Be interesting to compare your rig now with mine and the Funk/Oyaide combination

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Originally Posted by MikeMusic

Be interesting to compare your rig now with mine and the Funk/Oyaide combination

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Yes, it will. Why don't you come over to mine this time?

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Originally Posted by MartinT

Interesting, John. I haven't found that at all. Bass is well defined and balanced in my system.

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Martin, this was using a Sumiko bps and I have just fitted my 2m black and played without a mat. Bass is now a little leaner. So it was probably the cartridge more than the platter.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Thirdly, John (prestonchipfryer) was, to my knowledge, the first person on AoS to buy an ETP platter, so he must get the greatest credit for being the original one to bring the ETP to the attention of the members of AoS.

Marco.

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Marco, I'm sure there is some info, re ETP platter, I put on AoS 18 months or so but I'm blowed if I can locate it. :)

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Originally Posted by MartinT

Yes, it will. Why don't you come over to mine this time?

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Sounds good. A Sunday in December ?
Fancy trying the Isis against the Ayre too ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinT

If you caught the point I was making about platter weights and the braking adjustment, the ETP has about the same rotational momentum as the Technics stock platter. I could hear no warble from speed correction artifacts at either speed.

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Cool. I can stop wasting my time listening to far more Frankie Goes to Hollywood (Ferry across the Mersey - 12" 45rpm) than is good for the health at Arthurs factory listening for a warble that manifestly isn't there. The confusion was because the Funk strata and Technics platter, and MN ETP have about the same mass and rotational momentum, but you had reported to Arthur that you could hear a warble at 45rpm on the strata, and actually described hearing constant over correction. You have now changed your mind, and we can move on.

My personal interest was only in the difference in the materials for my PT, and so listening for warble on a turntable I never plan to own, was a chore on behalf of a mate. I am relieved to be relieved of it ;)

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Originally Posted by Oldpinkman

you had reported to Arthur that you could hear a warble at 45rpm on the strata, and actually described hearing constant over correction. You have now changed your mind, and we can move on.

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No Richard, that is not the case at all. I first heard the speed over-correction issue with the Mike New heavy metal platter, more so at 45rpm. I also reported that I could just hear a speed instability with the Mk. II Funk (what you seem to be calling the Strata). Those are both heavy platters, over-stressing the motor correction circuit. I haven't "changed my mind" about anything.

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Originally Posted by Marco

So how would you describe the 'Funk sound' in comparison?

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Simply the reverse. The ETP restores the slightly missing upper midrange / lower treble. Therefore the Funk is slightly recessed in that area.

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Originally Posted by prestonchipfryer

Marco, I'm sure there is some info, re ETP platter, I put on AoS 18 months or so but I'm blowed if I can locate it. :)

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yes I remember seeing that John, it may have been in the turntable thread I had running, its not very photogenic though is it,
a chunk of black thermoplastic to give it it's proper description :)

maybe mike could laser etch some pink writing on :lol:

No comment on my post #25, David? :rolleyes:

Marco.

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Originally Posted by MikeMusic

Sounds good. A Sunday in December ?
Fancy trying the Isis against the Ayre too ?

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Can I play, too? :carrot: :carrot:

Marco.

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Originally Posted by prestonchipfryer

Marco, I'm sure there is some info, re ETP platter, I put on AoS 18 months or so but I'm blowed if I can locate it. :)

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I'll have a mooch around the archives, dude, and see if I can find it :cool:

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Can I play, too? :carrot: :carrot:

Marco.

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Do you have anything interesting ?
:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Can I play, too? :carrot: :carrot:

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I am desperately running out of available dates before Chrimbo. I think it would have to be Sunday 15th Dec - how does that suit you both?

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Originally Posted by MikeMusic

Do you have anything interesting ?
:)

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Not too much gear, dudes! Platters and CD players will keep us very busy.

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Originally Posted by MartinT

I am desperately running out of available dates before Chrimbo. I think it would have to be Sunday 15th Dec - how does that suit you both?

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Good for me. Should have all the gutters clear by then
:)

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Originally Posted by MartinT

No Richard, that is not the case at all. I first heard the speed over-correction issue with the Mike New heavy metal platter, more so at 45rpm. I also reported that I could just hear a speed instability with the Mk. II Funk (what you seem to be calling the Strata). Those are both heavy platters, over-stressing the motor correction circuit. I haven't "changed my mind" about anything.

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Now I don't have either platter to hand. But according to Arthur Funk 1 (acrylic) weighs 1.4Kg and Funk 2 (strata) weighs 2.2Kg. And according to you Funk 1 weighs 1.4Kg and ETP weighs 2.3kg. And from the picture you have posted, the mass on ETP is distributed round the edge of the platter, (as it is to a lesser degree on Funk 1) where on Funk 2 it is pretty much evenly distributed across the surface. And you agreed, with regard to record weights that mass near the hub is largely irrelevant to rotational momentum - and by implication that mass at the edge is much more significant to rotational momentum.

So, keeping this real simple, ETP is a bit heavier, and has at least a bit more rotational momentum than Funk 2, but has no warble, and yet Funk 2 warbles. Have I got that right, or have I been fed an erroneous fact, or drawn an erroneous conclusion? :scratch:

My point is, I could hear no warble. I had the full adult dose of Frankie Goes to Hollywood (and my Dvorak 9th) and could hear plenty of differences between the platters but no warble. And whilst I remain interested in auditioning the 2 platters in my own system regarding my decision to modify the PT, if I don't have to do the warble test, I would rather do that on a couple of Funk Saphires than a couple of Technics 1200's. :)

What you maybe don't know is that there was a misalignment of the sensor cog when Arthur sent the Strata to me. I had to work blind to get it lined up and I was never quite happy with the speed stability. The Funk II did sound a little unsteady, and at 33rpm. I can't say it clearer than that. I was not happy that the platter speed sensor cog was properly lined up with the sensor coil and I did speak to Arthur about it.

Oh yes, just remembered: when starting up, the motor made odd squeaks until the speed settled. I have never heard that with any other platter. I did tell Arthur that, too.

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Originally Posted by MartinT

What you maybe don't know is that there was a misalignment of the sensor cog when Arthur sent the Strata to me. I had to work blind to get it lined up and I was never quite happy with the speed stability. The Funk II did sound a little unsteady, and at 33rpm. I can't say it clearer than that. I was not happy that the platter speed sensor cog was properly lined up with the sensor coil and I did speak to Arthur about it.

Oh yes, just remembered: when starting up, the motor made odd squeaks until the speed settled. I have never heard that with any other platter. I did tell Arthur that, too.

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I saw the email. You described the sensor problem and squeaks, and noted that you had fixed it. You also noted that you would put both platters on the scales. You heard an "imprecision" and ascribed it to the weight of the platter and the fact that the servo circuit expects a lighter platter. Given that you now are satisfied that the 2.3Kg ETP doesn't suffer that effect, unless I have been mis-informed about platter weights, I take it you have changed your mind about mass being the cause of whatever it was you heard. Although you also described the platter as spinning up and braking like the original Mike New platter (again - I don't have one, but I believe he claims 10Kg), and again you appear not to have repeated that comment regarding the ETP platter which is a whiff heavier than the Funk 2 you were using.

I am not too bothered about any of the detail, as long as my core conclusions were valid - vis the platters weigh about the same (2.2kg v 2.3Kg) and mass is no longer considered to be an issue. Accordingly I can focus on my selfish interests and tell Arthur that there is no warble to worry about. But he should be more careful about sending half finished product with squeaks and misaligned sensors out just to find out if the remachined hub fitted a non-standard bearing.

Either way - I don't have to serve a further FGTH sentence, cos there's just so much Ferry across the Mersey that a chap can stand! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinT

I am desperately running out of available dates before Chrimbo. I think it would have to be Sunday 15th Dec - how does that suit you both?

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Should be ok for me, Martin :)

It would be interesting and also useful to get a collective view of what the ETP platter is doing on three slightly different, but heavily modded Techies, in a system that ably shows up the subtlest of differences (and to hear where the Funk 1 platter is lacking, to your ears) - plus no doubt as usual, listening to an array of excellent music! :cool:

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Should be ok for me, Martin :)

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Done!

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Originally Posted by Oldpinkman

I take it you have changed your mind about mass being the cause of whatever it was you heard.

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I simply don't know as I feel my session with the Strata was sadly inconclusive. I would like to have heard it working properly. Whether it was the sensor only, a combination of the sensor and weight distribution or something else that the motor didn't like, I'm not prepared to guess at. I will say that there is a lot of mass (glass) at the very extremity of the platter so it could just possibly be a combination of bad sensor alignment and rotational momentum.

Whatever, I'm sad that I wasn't able to give the Strata a proper evaluation. I did form an opinion based on what I did hear, but it would be unfair to go into any further detail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinT

I simply don't know as I feel my session with the Strata was sadly inconclusive. I would like to have heard it working properly. Whether it was the sensor only, a combination of the sensor and weight distribution or something else that the motor didn't like, I'm not prepared to guess at. I will say that there is a lot of mass (glass) at the very extremity of the platter so it could just possibly be a combination of bad sensor alignment and rotational momentum.

Whatever, I'm sad that I wasn't able to give the Strata a proper evaluation. I did form an opinion based on what I did hear, but it would be unfair to go into any further detail.

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Oh bugger. Sounds like I'm gonna have to take a Techie instead of a Saphire on the 29th :(

Are we talking about the same platter? In essence it is 2 flat sheets of glass stuck together with his magic glue, as shown in my earlier photos (I won't re-post here, cos that must surely be close to thread-crapping - but you've seen what I posted for Arthur previously). Granted the version he had me listening to had the lettering on upside down, but it was otherwise the same. There is therefore no glass or mass at the extremity - it is uniform across the whole surface. Granted the achromat is more towards the centre and is not at the extremity but they weigh about 100gm at most. So ignoring the achromat, the glass is NOT at the very extremity. By contrast - the ETP - again based on the photo you have posted, appears to have a big heavy rim round it (I assume it is not the same thickness across the surface as the visible thickness round the edge)

Am I being really stupid? :scratch:

As I remember it (it's all packaged up now awaiting collection), it was one big round glass plate - or a sandwich - which reached right to the edge of the deck's recess, i.e. wider than 12". It did have the 'funky' lettering and there was an Achromat bonded to its top surface.