View Full Version : UEFA Euro 2020 (now 2021)
Very impressed again last night with Holland, who ran over the top of a plucky North Macedonia side, and could've easily won 5 or 6 nil. They look very good going forward, with Wijnaldum grabbing a double (could've had more) and looking like one of the stars of the tournament.
For me, Holland and Italy have been the two most impressive teams in this tournament. playing the kind of high tempo, attacking football I like to see, and I wish more teams would play that way, instead of defensive, possession-based stuff, as it's boring and fans want to be entertained!:exactly:
Marco.
Opti-cal
22-06-2021, 08:17
Very impressed again last night with Holland, who ran over the top of a plucky North Macedonia side, and could've easily won 5 or 6 nil. They look very good going forward, with Wijnaldum grabbing a double (could've had more) and looking like one of the stars of the tournament.
For me, Holland and Italy have been the two most impressive teams in this tournament. playing the kind of high tempo, attacking football I like to see, and I wish more teams would play that way, instead of defensive, possession-based stuff, as it's boring and fans want to be entertained!:exactly:
Marco.
Yes, football should be fun. Something a bit outside of the usual 1-0 Azzurri mantra ;) but fair play, they are great to watch now, as well as being defensively astute. There's a good reason Barcelona and the likes have always been sniffing around Wijnaldum, very neat and tidy player with an eye for goal. Goes under the radar a bit as he's not 'spectacular' but quite often he runs games.
Belguim are going to take a bit of beating too i think. Germany started slow, like all good German sides do; never count them out.
Yes, football should be fun. Something a bit outside of the usual 1-0 Azzurri mantra ;) but fair play, they are great to watch now, as well as being defensively astute. There's a good reason Barcelona and the likes have always been sniffing around Wijnaldum, very neat and tidy player with an eye for goal. Goes under the radar a bit as he's not 'spectacular' but quite often he runs games.
Yeah, he's defo a player. I also like Depay, and Dumfries, aptly named after a Scottish border town!:D
For me, if you're one of the bigger teams and confident in your ability, you should always go onto the pitch with two main aims: 1) to win the game, 2) entertain the fans!
I hate it when games become a dour tactical battle, or teams with the ability to play good attacking football, insisting instead on passing teams to death and sneaking a goal when they tire (a la Spain - YAWN!) TBH, France can be a bit like that too - and both could be better!
TBH, that sort of shit is far worse during World Cups than the Euros, which for me generally produces more exiting and entertaining football, except of course when Greece won it in (2004?) by playing BLANDball, not football!:doh:
Marco.
Belguim are going to take a bit of beating too i think. Germany started slow, like all good German sides do; never count them out.
I like Belgium, but for me they're not defensively solid enough to win it. Defo never write off the Germans. If they win their next game, which I think they will, then they'll be there or thereabouts.
What are your thoughts ahead of tonight's game against Croatia, and England vs the Czechs?:)
Marco.
I like Belgium, but for me they're not defensively solid enough to win it. Defo never write off the Germans. If they win their next game, which I think they will, then they'll be there or thereabouts.
What are your thoughts ahead of tonight's game against Croatia, and England vs the Czechs?:)
Marco.
scotland have a habit of shooting themselves in foot at this precise moment. Out play Croatia and get hit by a sucker punch or 2. It wont surprise me if same happens again.
England should have too much for the czechs.
belguim's only loss in 26 games was at wmbley in nations league i think.. they have a habit of winning that makes them tough.
scotland have a habit of shooting themselves in foot at this precise moment. Out play Croatia and get hit by a sucker punch or 2. It wont surprise me if same happens again.
England should have too much for the czechs.
I know where you're coming from in both respects. I'll crystallise my thoughts later!:)
Marco.
belguim's only loss in 26 games was at wmbley in nations league i think.. they have a habit of winning that makes them tough.
Yup, but they tend to fall short when it comes to actually winning tournaments.
Marco.
Yup, but they tend to fall short when it comes to actually winning tournaments.
Marco.
sure, they havent managed it as of yet.. looking at it that way its germany, then italy and portugal.
Italy have been the best side so far, Germany look to be coming onto a game. France have best players but are not clicking yet. Belgium and Holland are perhaps the 2 to watch as slight outsiders. England when they click can be very dangerous too.
Opti-cal
22-06-2021, 10:07
England when they click can be very dangerous too.
Maybe if Southgate wasn't petrified of losing (playing two defensive midfielders in every game) and actually has the balls to go and impose England's strengths on teams, then we might 'click'.
He's too worried about canceling out the oppositions tactics rather than imposing any ideas he might have. It's pissing me off to be honest.
No offence to Croatia or indeed Scotland but with the players we have available and considering what they do for their clubs on a weekly basis, England should be going through teams and be free-scoring. Grealish and Foden alone should be a creative tour-de-force not to mention the qualities of Sancho and Mount, the former having an incredible season at Dortmund again with goals and assists and the latter being a real rock creating attacks as well as smartly breaking up play, helping Chelsea win the Champions League.
Southgate is making the same mistakes as all other England managers, stifling the natural freedom and expression of any players in favour of dogged tactics which still don't work.
Ironically it would actually do us a massive favour to finish second in the group so we avoid playing anyone from the 'Group of Death' . . . . but knowing England as I do we'll win 2-0 tonight and be playing Germany in the next round . . .
Classic England fan pessimism and frustration from me there but we've seen it all before (and done exactly the same again and again) . . . .
sure, they havent managed it as of yet.. looking at it that way its germany, then italy and portugal.
Italy have been the best side so far, Germany look to be coming onto a game. France have best players but are not clicking yet. Belgium and Holland are perhaps the 2 to watch as slight outsiders. England when they click can be very dangerous too.
Yup, I'd go with that. Also, if you want a 'dark horse'/outsider. look no further than Denmark, who were *hugely* impressive last night against Russia, beating them 4-1, with some tremendous goals, and carrying on from their excellent performance against Belgium, which they were unlucky not to get something from.
Marco.
Yup, Chris, I'd agree with your summation, although weren't they rather more free-flowing in qualification, where they topped their group with maximum points, scoring a number of goals in the process? And of course that was with Southgate..;)
However, that's happened with England many times before, where they have an outstanding qualifying campaign, then go into tournaments and play nothing like that, although the last World Cup was the notable recent exception, again with Southgate. Therefore, he's clearly a capable manager.
Aside from your valid points, it does seem though that England play one way when qualifying for tournaments, then another when they get there - why I don't know!:hmm:
Anyway, the good news is that because of results elsewhere yesterday, you're through to the last 16, no matter what happens tonight against the Czechs. So that may influence who Southgate picks for the team and the style of play he adopts:)
Marco.
wont surprise me if england play out a drab draw and take 2nd place
Opti-cal
22-06-2021, 10:48
Yup, Chris, I'd agree with your summation, although weren't they rather more free-flowing in qualification, where they topped their group with maximum points, scoring a number of goals in the process? And of course that was with Southgate..;)
However, that's happened with England many times before, where they have an outstanding qualifying campaign, then go into tournaments and play nothing like that, although the last World Cup was the notable recent exception, again with Southgate. Therefore, he's clearly a capable manager.
Aside from your valid points, it does seem though that England play one way when qualifying for tournaments, then another when they get there - why I don't know!:hmm:
Anyway, the good news is that because of results elsewhere yesterday, you're through to the last 16, no matter what happens tonight against the Czechs! So that may influence who Southgate picks for the team and the style of play he adopts:)
Marco.
Yup, there's no denying our qualifying campaigns cannot be sniffed at BUT then there is the complete shift in approach to the games tactically and mentally and that is down to the manager. It's more frustrating from my perspective because we know he CAN play those tactics which enable England to play a more imposing game but as you point out (usually) when it comes to tournament time the old 'play-it-safe' mentality kicks in again.
To be honest we had a very easy run to the semi's in the world cup and how deep we went into the tournament really flattered us. Yes the football was a bit more free flowing but I really feel now with the players I mentioned before we should be MUCH more free to express ourselves on the pitch, the way France often do along with Germany (albeit with a 'focus' inherent in German mindset).
That's a major part of the problem, not knowing what our identity should be and never allowing enough time for a manager or squad to 'build' one. For me our natural mindset is closest to the Germans but that doesn't mean we should straight up copy them. I actually think that now (hasn't been the case in the past) we can actually afford to have some flair on the pitch (Foden, Sancho, Grealish), something the Germans haven't got much of, so we should use that to our advantage.
Although it's difficult to get a manager to rely on flair and 'exuberant' play to win you games, it's much easier to come to rely on 'workman' like players who give you a solid 7/10 every game. It's the safer bet but you're never going to get a 10/10 performance out of those players, it's just not in their DNA. That is why he is reluctant to start a team going out to smash and almost attempt to embarrass other teams, it's considered very un-english, however if we want to compete I believe we have to shed this archaic notion that England shouldn't and won't win playing with some flair.
A journalist recently asked Toni Kroos as to why not many German players win the Ballon D'or, he simply replied "We don't have many Ballon D'or's, but we have 4 stars on the shirt."
For me that is an example of a nationality knowing it's identity and why it's strengths come to the fore at the right time. All countries are slightly different. Spain nailed it between 2008-2012 too and France seem to be able to call upon it when needed too.
These three games were the games to exercise that same 'chains off' approach and maybe forge that new (more exciting) identity, but he just hasn't done it.
We have flashes of what could be, but it's never allowed to develop.
Caution to the wind I say, let's see what happens, I'm fed up with turgid football which certainly doesn't worry many other teams and certainly not the big boys.
wont surprise me if england play out a drab draw and take 2nd place
Nah, I can't see that. They'll be hurting after their poor performance against Scotland and the deserved criticism they've received since, or if not they SHOULD be, and so desperate to make amends against the Czechs, especially now that the pressure's off. If not, there's something badly wrong!
Therefore, that not being the case, I think they'll win tonight by a couple of goals.
Marco.
Chris, you make some good points as usual, especially with regard to 'identity'.
For me, it's just a pity that Harry Redknapp never got the chance to manage England, as in his prime, for me he'd have ticked all the right boxes and got the team playing how you (and I suspect many England fans) would like them to play.
Problem is, much like the SFA, the FA almost always pick a 'yes man' for the national manager, and someone who'll go by the book and give them an easy ride, not someone with a big personality, who would suffer no fools and give things [and everyone who needs it] a good kick up the backside!;)
Marco.
Southgate is making the same mistakes as all other England managers, stifling the natural freedom and expression of any players in favour of dogged tactics which still don't work.
Ironically it would actually do us a massive favour to finish second in the group so we avoid playing anyone from the 'Group of Death' . . . . but knowing England as I do we'll win 2-0 tonight and be playing Germany in the next round . . .
. . .
It's like you are reading my mind.
anubisgrau
22-06-2021, 16:12
I think you are all too harsh on England. If James hit the net instead of post with that early header, it would have been an easy game. I expect them to shine tonight, Czechs playing open football will make it possible.
Much more curious about Glasgow game and harder to predict. Quality-wise, this should be an easy task for Croatia but their squad has a plenty of inner personal problems. It seems like the coach doesn't control them. Plus complicated travels back and forth UK Croatia. I will support Scotland but let's see.
Chris, you make some good points as usual, especially with regard to 'identity'.
For me, it's just a pity that Harry Redknapp never got the chance to manage England, as in his prime, for me he'd have ticked all the right boxes and got the team playing how you (and I suspect many England fans) would like them to play.
Problem is, much like the SFA, the FA almost always pick a 'yes man' for the national manager, and someone who'll go by the book and give them an easy ride, not someone with a big personality, who would suffer no fools and give things [and everyone who needs it] a good kick up the backside!;)
Marco.
bit of a jack the lad was 'arry.. but i liked him; i liked his style too and may have been a great manager of national team.
Indeed... I think he'd have been great:)
Anyway, onto tonight's games... I've been mulling the Scotland game for the last few days and changing my mind a few times. The Billy Gilmour thing has unfortunately tipped the balance towards my gut telling me that the match will end in glorious failure, possibly with a 1-1 draw or 1-0 win to Croatia.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, though!:doh:
As for the England game, I think 3-1 to England, as they'll have a point to prove, and I still rate them as being one of the favourites.
Marco.
rmcin626
22-06-2021, 16:40
Indeed... I think he'd have been great:)
Anyway, onto tonight's games... I've been mulling the Scotland game for the last few days and changing my mind a few times. The Billy Gilmour thing has unfortunately tipped the balance towards my gut telling me that the match will end in glorious failure, possibly with a 1-1 draw or 1-0 win to Croatia.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, though!:doh:
As for the England game, I think 3-1 to England, as they'll have a point to prove, and I still rate them as being one of the favourites.
Marco.
Hopefully Scotland will surprise us all and make it through to the group stages for the first time, we are not relying on other results its in our own hands.
maybe barisic will hit a free kick to seal it; make him really popular:eek:
Hopefully Scotland will surprise us all and make it through to the group stages for the first time, we are not relying on other results its in our own hands.
Good point. We probably haven't been in this position too often, so fingers crossed!:)
Marco.
maybe barisic will hit a free kick to seal it; make him really popular:eek:
He'd be kicked out of Ibrox!:D
Marco.
He'd be kicked out of Ibrox!:D
Marco.
dunno, he might be cheered :D but i think he will be leaving if he can prove his fitness. i think we will unfortunately be losing a few.
still, thats the clubs position now. sell for profit
only one change for scotland... like for like re gilmour to mcgreggor.... it does make you wonder why they have a squad.. how many have we scored??;)
Doesn't surprise me, mate. You can't really blame him in what is such an important game. Subs will be used, though!:)
Marco.
anubisgrau
22-06-2021, 18:07
I think you are all too harsh on England. If James hit the net instead of post with that early header, it would have been an easy game. I expect them to shine tonight, Czechs playing open football will make it possible.
Much more curious about Glasgow game and harder to predict. Quality-wise, this should be an easy task for Croatia but their squad has a plenty of inner personal problems. It seems like the coach doesn't control them. Plus complicated travels back and forth UK Croatia. I will support Scotland but let's see.
You posted that earlier, Gordan. Why have you posted the same thing again?:hmm:
Btw Granty, Armstrong starting is another change from Wembley:)
Marco.
Good luck to both brutish sides. Oops, British lol
3-1 to Croatia now... No coming back from that, I suspect, so sadly I was right. Glorious failure:(
More comment later after I've drowned my sorrows! :door: :wave::barrel:
Marco.
rmcin626
22-06-2021, 20:59
3-1 to Croatia now... No coming back from that, I suspect, so sadly I was right. Glorious failure:(
More comment later after I've drowned my sorrows! :door: :wave::barrel:
Marco.
Me too
That was intense. Commiserations to the Scots. Croatia had too much for you.
The Three Lions did OK, even without looking outstanding.
Home games at Wembley now. And some serious opposition. France or Germany? :eek:
Pigmy Pony
22-06-2021, 21:19
That's a shame. I was really rooting for Scotland.
Pigmy Pony
23-06-2021, 05:57
Very quiet on here this morning. I sense there's a few hangovers.
Where does my sweepstake team (Czech Republic) stand now? I tried to find out by looking online, but the information makes no sense to me.
Very quiet on here this morning. I sense there's a few hangovers.
Where does my sweepstake team (Czech Republic) stand now? I tried to find out by looking online, but the information makes no sense to me.
probably get through as one of 4, best runner up's.
Very quiet on here this morning. I sense there's a few hangovers.
When you posted that, it wasn't even 7am, and some of us were still in bed!;)
Once I've made the princess' breakfast (and mine) and had my caffeine hit, I'll summarise my feelings on last night's game:)
Marco.
Remarkable game, England excellent first half, then second half totally lacklustre. And the opposite for the Czechs. Although they never really looked like they could score.
if they'd played the first half like they played the second it would have been a real struggle for us. Don't know what the manager said to them at half-time but it worked.
I still don't think, on the strength of that performance, that we are good enough to beat Spain or Italy, but the potential is there.
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 08:45
Chris, you make some good points as usual, especially with regard to 'identity'.
For me, it's just a pity that Harry Redknapp never got the chance to manage England, as in his prime, for me he'd have ticked all the right boxes and got the team playing how you (and I suspect many England fans) would like them to play.
Problem is, much like the SFA, the FA almost always pick a 'yes man' for the national manager, and someone who'll go by the book and give them an easy ride, not someone with a big personality, who would suffer no fools and give things [and everyone who needs it] a good kick up the backside!;)
Marco.
As a spurs fan I can tell you it was a crying shame that Harry didn't get the job. He would have been a perfect fit at the time and would have brought about some old skool values along with not pandering to the FA's list of box ticking requirements. Which is why he didn't get the job. The stuffy old farts at the FA simply wouldn't consider having a 'maverick' at the helm, hence every England manager since (and to an extent before). Terry Venables was the only manager in my lifetime with any guts to go with his own tactics and give the team the confidence to play with the freedom to win games on their own merit. Harry is very much in the same ilk.
Although the FA did enough to hint that Redknapp was in the running which did cause him to take his eye off the ball a bit at Spurs. Again, a stupid, pointless move which helped no one, but that's the FA all over.
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 08:49
Remarkable game, England excellent first half, then second half totally lacklustre. And the opposite for the Czechs. Although they never really looked like they could score.
if they'd played the first half like they played the second it would have been a real struggle for us. Don't know what the manager said to them at half-time but it worked.
I still don't think, on the strength of that performance, that we are good enough to beat Spain or Italy, but the potential is there.
We played okay for 20-30 minutes or so in the first half but overall still quite disappointing. But, Portugal drew all of their group games and won the thing last time so . . . .
Plus we've yet to concede and have at least the same amount of points as France after 3 games. Positives must be taken.
Wouldn't fancy us much against Italy either but Spain are woeful upfront, very average everywhere else. It's Germany and France we'll struggle against.
We (and now just Wales) march on though!
anubisgrau
23-06-2021, 08:52
Why not Spain? They were among the dullest so far.
No team on the tournament is good enough to beat Italy so far.
A problem with England (as I see it) is that the manager 1) actually doesn't have a clue what he has in hands 2) has a mentality of a defense player so he's overprotective. As long as he's insecure, that will be visible in the game. But still it doesn't mean that England can't advance very very far, depending how efficiently Southgate assembles the puzzle. With excellent strikers he has, England should at least score more goals, only 2 so far is a bit disgraceful in comparison with the teams England likes to consider as rivals.
We played okay for 20-30 minutes or so in the first half but overall still quite disappointing. But, Portugal drew all of their group games and won the thing last time so . . . .
Plus we've yet to concede and have at least the same amount of points as France after 3 games. Positives must be taken.
Wouldn't fancy us much against Italy either but Spain are woeful upfront, very average everywhere else. It's Germany and France we'll struggle against.
We (and now just Wales) march on though!
As well as, I'd suggest Belgium (possibly Holland and Portugal, too) and the team from the valleys you've just mentioned, who gave Italy's rather talented reserves a good game;)
More in a mo!:cool:
Marco.
head to head v italy, spain has best record followed by england. (discounting the old soviet union)
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 09:07
As well as, I'd suggest Belgium (possibly Holland and Portugal, too) and the team from the valleys you've just mentioned, who gave Italy's rather talented reserves a good game;)
More in a mo!:cool:
Marco.
Oh yes, I think we'd struggle against pretty much all the top teams from every group, I was referring more to the teams we are most likely to play in the next round (Germany/France). I have a sneaking suspicion we would beat Portugal for no other reason than a lot of our players know their game well as they play along side them.
In my honest opinion, Italy, France, Germany, Belgium we will struggle against (obviously) but I think we'd have enough to get through Holland and Portugal.
Portugal - France tonight will give us a good insight as to where these teams are 'really' at. Slovakia - Spain could be interesting also and don't discount Hungary against zee Germans . . . Portugal scored very quickly against them and they were actually decent for large parts of the game.
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 09:09
head to head v italy, spain has best record followed by england. (discounting the old soviet union)
Yeah but Spain used to have a proper team, this lot are nothing compared to 2008-2012 plus and minus a few years. Captain Sergio Busquets vs Carlos Puyol . . . . enough said.
Italy have their strongest (looking) team for a good while too.
Also, as I've said before, when it comes to these tournaments, beware the 'slow burner'... In that respect, if they can keep Modric injury-free, I wouldn't be surprised if Croatia reached another semi-final or final. Unlikely, I think, but if it happened, I wouldn't be shocked or stunned, as they're suitably 'tournament hardened'.
Historically, such as when Portugal won it, 'slow burners', who take a while to get into their groove, can often end up as the winners, so that's why although Italy have been tremendous so far, I'm not counting my chickens, as when you're in the knockout stages, it only takes one team to successfully nullify their threat and 'fluke' a win with a breakaway goal or penalty, and they'd be out...
There's a LONG way to go yet, folks!!:cool:
Marco.
Oh yes, I think we'd struggle against pretty much all the top teams from every group, I was referring more to the teams we are most likely to play in the next round (Germany/France). I have a sneaking suspicion we would beat Portugal for no other reason than a lot of our players know their game well as they play along side them.
In my honest opinion, Italy, France, Germany, Belgium we will struggle against (obviously) but I think we'd have enough to get through Holland and Portugal.
Portugal - France tonight will give us a good insight as to where these teams are 'really' at. Slovakia - Spain could be interesting also and don't discount Hungary against zee Germans . . . Portugal scored very quickly against them and they were actually decent for large parts of the game.
Don't discount Wales either... They've beaten you often enough at rugby!:D;)
Marco.
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 09:20
Don't discount Wales either... They've beaten you often enough at rugby!:D;)
Marco.
Yeah but that's a man's game Marco . . . .
When it comes to 'kicking' as a large percentage of the game, we're fairly useful . . . Wilkinson!! (Still lives on).
To be fair I'm not as fanatical about Rugby but I do enjoy watching the fluidity and guile of Wales compared to us. They have some finesse with the ball where we just have a few bruisers. Cipriani and the likes have flattered to deceive over the years but we've never looked particularly attractive on the eye.
welsh rugby in 70's was fabulous.. best team in world for me, probably ever. All passing; Scotland kicked everything by comparison. proper ameteur too really. JPR W was a surgeon
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 09:25
welsh rugby in 70's was fabulous.. best team in world for me, probably ever. All passing; Scotland kicked everything by comparison. proper ameteur too really. JPR W was a surgeon
Bit before my time Grant (as you're not allowed to mention on Pop-Master) but my dad says the same thing. Years ahead of the curve in the way they played.
Yeah but that's a man's game Marco . . . .
When it comes to 'kicking' as a large percentage of the game, we're fairly useful . . . Wilkinson!! (Still lives on).
To be fair I'm not as fanatical about Rugby but I do enjoy watching the fluidity and guile of Wales compared to us. They have some finesse with the ball where we just have a few bruisers. Cipriani and the likes have flattered to deceive over the years but we've never looked particularly attractive on the eye.
Lol... I'm serious though about Wales, in terms of the Euros. If you were to draw them in the forthcoming rounds (should both of you manage to get passed the next one), they'd defo give you a very hard game, as it would be another 'Battle of Britain', akin to the recent one at Wembley, and so they'd be just as fired up to try and beat you as we were, although by then there'd be rather more at stake!
They're also a far better team than Scotland, and so even though on paper England are far superior to Wales, much of that effect would be nullified by the 'local derby' factor, as indeed it was at Wembley:)
Marco.
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 09:58
Lol... I'm serious though about Wales, in terms of the Euros. If you were to draw them in the forthcoming rounds (should both of you manage to get passed the next one), they'd defo give you a very hard game, as it would be another 'Battle of Britain', akin to the recent one at Wembley, and so they'd be just as fired up to try and beat you as we were, although by then there'd be rather more at stake!
They're also a far better team than Scotland, and so even though on paper England are far superior to Wales, much of that effect would be nullified by the 'local derby' factor, as indeed it was at Wembley:)
Marco.
I mean Wales have never beaten England in my lifetime (or even drawn) but they have got one of their strongest teams in all their history. I can certainly imagine the likes of Ramsay and indeed Bale upping their performance even more for a home-nation battle. Also Daniel James is lightning and offers them more pace on the wing.
Ultimately though I think England would also be up for it and the outcome would reflect the stats of the last 30 years or so. A draw would not be a massive surprise but can't see a Wales win no matter how admirably optimistic fans might be . . .
think their last win was 1984...
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 10:16
think their last win was 1984...
Yup, I'm 34 and a half guv'nor
Yup, I'm 34 and a half guv'nor
lucky you; wish i was :D my youngest is coming on 38:doh:
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 10:29
lucky you; wish i was :D my youngest is coming on 38:doh:
Capable of banging on like any of the 60+ year old gits (affectionately) round here though!! ;)
I mean Wales have never beaten England in my lifetime (or even drawn) but they have got one of their strongest teams in all their history. I can certainly imagine the likes of Ramsay and indeed Bale upping their performance even more for a home-nation battle. Also Daniel James is lightning and offers them more pace on the wing.
Ultimately though I think England would also be up for it and the outcome would reflect the stats of the last 30 years or so. A draw would not be a massive surprise but can't see a Wales win no matter how admirably optimistic fans might be . . .
Yup, can't argue with any of that, but of course what I said is still valid. I'm not generally a betting man, but if they were to clash later in this tournament, just for a giggle I'd put a few quid on Wales, as for the valid reasons you state, the odds would be pretty good!:D
Marco.
Capable of banging on like any of the 60+ year old gits (affectionately) round here though!! ;)
dont do much banging these days;)
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 10:53
dont do much banging these days;)
Haha, I meant myself (just in case that wasn't clear!)
Hopefully I've still got a few years left banging (on) . . . lol
dont do much banging these days;)
Same here - as you know, I'm a monk!:lol::lol:
Marco.
Yes, your real name is Rasputin
Lol... Could you imagine the princess entertaining no nooky?:eek::wowzer::D
'I WANT a [ahem] NOW!!':eyebrows:
Marco.
Rasputin liked his nooky so your ok:D
Yes, your real name is Rasputin
Lol... Do you think had regular access to similar 'prime filly'?:eyebrows:
Marco.
Lol... Do you think had regular access to similar 'prime filly'?:eyebrows:
Marco.
royalty they say.. princess?.. or maybe a queen:eek:
Just had a look at the betting, you can still get sixes on Italy so I might have a punt on that tomorrow. England sevens, France the favourites on fours.
Might have France as well, still make money whichever wins.
i expect spain to open up a bit today.. they have to so it will be the making or breaking of them
You can get ten to one on Spain - I think they have more chance than that. Can't bet on everyone though.
as i thought, spain opened up a bit.. 5-0 up with 15 left... they can be a very good team when they want to be..
sweden 2-1 up on poland and look to top group
as i thought, spain opened up a bit.. 5-0 up with 15 left... they can be a very good team when they want to be..
Lol, so why wouldn't that *always* be the case? It bloody should be! I'd stopped watching them, as they were boring the pants off of me - then they go and score 5 goals!:doh::D
Looking forward to Portugal vs. France. I suspect we may learn a thing or two about the potential winners of this tournament from that game!:)
sweden 2-1 up on poland and look to top group
Sweden are a tough side to beat and have the potential to give any team a hard game.
Marco.
Opti-cal
23-06-2021, 17:45
as i thought, spain opened up a bit.. 5-0 up with 15 left... they can be a very good team when they want to be..
sweden 2-1 up on poland and look to top group
Good call Grant, must admit having watched them in the first couple of games I didn't see many goals coming but come they have.
Unfortunately couldn't watch the game today but will catch up later. To be fair they (Moratta especially) have missed some guilt edged chances so looks like they're taking a couple today.
Another team hitting some form perhaps
Lol, so why wouldn't that *always* be the case? It bloody should be! I'd stopped watching them, as they were boring the pants off of me - then they go and score 5 goals!:doh::D
Looking forward to Portugal vs. France. I suspect we may learn a thing or two about the potential winners of this tournament from that game!:)
Marco.
sweden 2-1 up on poland and look to top group[/QUOTE]
yah they had some covid issues and they were under pressure like england not to lose early. when they had to they opened up. often the first 2 games are just excercises in not getting beaten
so two big games tonight.. portugal france is probably the flashpoint; I ill stick my neck out(odd i know) and go for a win for portugal. germany know the probably need to win and im sure they are good enough to do so(if the they play as they can)
im going for portugal an germany... not like me lol
Well, Germany are already a goal down:eek:
Awkward team, Hungary, as indeed the French found out!
Marco.
Well, Germany are already a goal down:eek:
Awkward team, Hungary, as indeed the French found out!
Marco.Doesn't surprise me. They are a good side. The hun will need to start playing
anubisgrau
24-06-2021, 08:55
this is the historical chance for england to take revenge for all the humiliation it got from germany since 1990.
i don't think this german team can pull together, they are far from any form or shape. if GS would only have balls to go fully offensive, germany has one of the weakest defenses ever.
Yes, some tremendous games last night with France vs, Portugal, and Germany vs. Hungary, particularly the latter, where Germany despite not playing particularly well had the guile to save their asses with a late equaliser, setting up a mouthwatering clash between their age-old enemies, England!
Will it go down to penalties again? We'll wait and see!:D
I thought that France and Portugal were fairly evenly matched, although Portugal do rely heavily on Ronaldo, in a game that was largely the battle of the penalties! I think that France have the edge though in terms of who's most likely to win this year's tournament.
Well done though to Hungary for pushing both France, and especially Germany, to their limits and giving them a real game. They can certainly be proud of their achievements in a group that for them was almost impossible to get out of. However, I am glad that Germany found that late equaliser, to set up what I think will be another classic encounter against the Germans - and one this time I think they can win!:cool:
Marco.
got my bets on, France at fours and Italy sixes. Unless Spain turn out to be a dark horse that has to be easy money.
got my bets on, France at fours and Italy sixes. Unless Spain turn out to be a dark horse that has to be easy money.
and if england win you'll be happy without the money:lol: mind you, if its germany:eek:
and if england win you'll be happy without the money:lol: mind you, if its germany:eek:
something like that. :)
The way I see it even if Jerry beats us they won't beat Italy or France. Just not good enough.
Obviously an Italy vs France final will be ideal.
Lol... Obviously not being English, or necessarily British, I don't sign up to a dislike of Germany, or the (let's call it), 'traditional rivalry' between both countries:D
On the contrary, all the Germans I've met have been lovely people, plus half of Del's family are German, so I'm certainly not anti-German. As a neutral, all I'm looking for is a good entertaining game, although Del wants you lot well and truly pumped!:eyebrows:
Marco.
Lol... Obviously not being English, or necessarily British, I don't sign up to the dislike of Germany, or the (let's call it), rivalry between both countries:D
On the contrary, all the Germans I've met have been lovely people, plus half of Del's family are German, so I'm certainly not anti-German. As a neutral, all I'm looking for is a good entertaining game, although Del wants you lot well and truly pumped!:eyebrows:
Marco.
not anti anyone really. as long as they aint cheats.
that kinda puts all teams out really;)
Me neither, but I'm defo pro-Italy and Wales, both my teams left in the competition, and so will be 'anti' whoever they're up against!:)
Marco.
Lol... Obviously not being English, or necessarily British, I don't sign up to a dislike of Germany, or the (let's call it), 'traditional rivalry' between both countries:D
On the contrary, all the Germans I've met have been lovely people, plus half of Del's family are German, so I'm certainly not anti-German. As a neutral, all I'm looking for is a good entertaining game, although Del wants you lot well and truly pumped!:eyebrows:
Marco.
You're not confusing the football rivalry with a general dislike of Germans/Germany are you? It's usually only non-football people who make that mistake.
I have nothing against either Germans or Germany, but the German football team are our mortal enemies, always have been. It's traditional.
You're not confusing the football rivalry with a general dislike of Germans/Germany are you? It's usually only non-football people who make that mistake.
I have nothing against either Germans or Germany, but the German football team are our mortal enemies, always have been It's traditional.
Lol, not at all, although sometimes the two can morph into one. Of course as a football fan I get it, but can only really relate to it, as far as the rivalry goes, with that between Celtic and Rangers, and which is certainly every bit as intense!
However, I'd never describe Rangers (or Rangers fans) as being my "mortal enemies", as a) I support Rangers when they play in Europe, simply because they're representing Scotland, and if they win it often subsequently benefits Celtic, and b) I have friends who are Rangers supporters.
I guess another valid comparison is the Scotland vs. England thing...
Now don't get me wrong, when the two played each other recently, nothing would've pleased me more than royally pumping England, but not because I consider them as my "mortal enemies" (far from it), but simply because a) I'm a diehard Scotland fan, and b) love any opportunity to show that Scottish football, either in its domestic or international form, is much better than than the English give it credit for!';)
Marco.
It's not the same with club football though. You don't support your national team in the same way you support your club. Can't explain that any further but it just not the same.
Indeed, I'm more passionate about Celtic, than I am Scotland (or even Italy)! Aren't you, in terms of Liverpool?:)
Or do you care more about England?
In terms of sport, FIRST AN FOREMOST, I'm a *diehard* Celtic fan!! Anything else pales into insignificance.
Marco.
Indeed, I'm more passionate about Celtic, than I am Scotland (or even Italy)! Aren't you, in terms of Liverpool?:)
Or do you care more about England?
.
No, ,Liverpool is far more important, not even comparable.
Cool, that's what I thought. Still don't get the 'mortal enemies' thing, though.. I have no mortal enemies in football.
Marco.
anubisgrau
25-06-2021, 07:36
marco's too pacifist for a real celtic fan :lol:
Lol... I grew up in Glasgow, mate, so I know all about rabid football rivalry, sectarianism/religious bigotry and far worse!;)
For me, if you allow football to affect/control you like that (leading to hatred and the creation of 'mortal enemies'), then there's something not quite right with you.
Marco.
Cool, that's what I thought. Still don't get the 'mortal enemies' thing, though.. I have no mortal enemies in football.
Marco.
I think you're taking what I said too literally.
marco's too pacifist for a real celtic fan :lol:
i wouldn't call him a pacifist...
I think you're taking what I said too literally.
Almost certainly!:lol:
Would you now care to revise your terminology?;)
Marco.
anubisgrau
25-06-2021, 08:31
England can beat Germany - unless it is on penalties, says Lothar Matthaus
Almost certainly!:lol:
Would you now care to revise your terminology?;)
Marco.
No I stand by it, context is everything, this is a thread about football.
Ok, but I'm afraid I don't understand how any sensible person can have 'mortal enemies' in football. Are Everton fans you mortal enemies, too?;)
Marco.
Ah yes, I should've guessed!:D
Funny though how, as a Celtic fan, Rangers aren't my 'mortal enemies', yet Man Utd are yours.. Don't get me wrong, outwith of games in Europe, I want them to lose, and lose royally (the same as no doubt Rangers fans feel towards Celtic), but they're not my mortal enemies.
How could they be when some of them are my friends? Are you saying then that you couldn't be someone's friend if they supported Man Utd or Germany?:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
26-06-2021, 06:40
It really is just a phrase which football fans would use, not to be taken literally.
Anita's sons used to be "die-hard" (again not literally) Everton fans when their dad used to take them to matches, not so much now that they're grown up and would have to pay for their own season tickets. Anita's friend, who is a scouser is a Liverpool fan and when she comes round, her and the kids constantly bait each other. I once made her a brew in an Everton cup and she flatly refused to drink it. I also have occasionally played "Fearless" by Pink Floyd, and that winds them up. But I know they don't wish death on each other (probably wish it on me for being such a shit stirrer), so the term "mortal enemies" means nothing really.
Like some of the things Kevin Keegan has come out with over the years, not to be taken seriously. Except by Kev of course. I mean, "England fans are the best in the world, and Scotland fans are second to none", or "Germany only have one player under 22, and he's 23" :)
Well obviously a German is gong to support Germany, you can't hold that against them. And everyone I know from Manchester is a City fan.
I seem to recall there was a survey done to find the United fan that lived closest to Old Trafford, and the winner was in Shrewsbury.
Lol, yeah Chris (here) used to always say that! So what if you met someone who you thought was a dead decent guy, good laugh etc, and later found out that he was a diehard Man Utd fan...
Would you swerve him afterwards?:D
Marco.
It really is just a phrase which football fans would use, not to be taken literally.
Anita's sons used to be "die-hard" (again not literally) Everton fans when their dad used to take them to matches, not so much now that they're grown up and would have to pay for their own season tickets. Anita's friend, who is a scouser is a Liverpool fan and when she comes round, her and the kids constantly bait each other. I once made her a brew in an Everton cup and she flatly refused to drink it. I also have occasionally played "Fearless" by Pink Floyd, and that winds them up. But I know they don't wish death on each other (probably wish it on me for being such a shit stirrer), so the term "mortal enemies" means nothing really.
Like some of the things Kevin Keegan has come out with over the years, not to be taken seriously. Except by Kev of course. I mean, "England fans are the best in the world, and Scotland fans are second to none", or "Germany only have one player under 22, and he's 23" :)
Lol, yeah I know... Really just taking the piss, but wondered how deep any such negative feelings may have ran.
Anyway, Wales vs. Denmark and Italy vs. Austria today, so I'm hoping for wins for both of my teams! I think Wales may find it hard against Denmark.
Marco.
anubisgrau
26-06-2021, 17:54
Terrific Denmark, total domination. The most pleasant surprise of the tournament so far.
I think Wales may find it hard against Denmark.
...and sadly, so it proved. Apart from the first 10 mins, where they looked good and created a few chances, Wales simply weren't at the races, looked jaded, and were outplayed by a fantastic Denmark team, who but for some exceptional circumstances shouldn't have lost their first game to Finland, and quite simply have kicked on from their outstanding performance against Belgium.
Make no mistake, this Danish team are going places (spurred on now by what happened to CE), and have some real quality going right through their side, as well as a serious work ethic, coupled with good physicality and fitness, and I feel would give even the top sides in this competition a run for their money.
As I've said, if you want a 'dark horse' in this tournament, look no further than Denmark. so for the betting folk on here, I've no idea what the odds are on Denmark winning it, but it could prove fruitful to put some money on them:cool:
Marco.
rmcin626
26-06-2021, 18:45
...and sadly, so it proved. Apart from the first 10 mins, where they looked good and created a few chances, Wales simply weren't at the races, looked jaded, and were outplayed by a fantastic Denmark team, who but for some exceptional circumstances shouldn't have lost their first game to Finland, and quite simply have kicked on from their outstanding performance against Belgium.
Make no mistake, this Danish team are going places (spurred on now by what happened to CE), and have some real quality going right through their side, as well as a serious work ethic, coupled with good physicality and fitness, and I feel would give even the top sides in this competition a run for their money.
As I've said, if you want a 'dark horse' in this tournament, look no further than Denmark. so for the betting folk on here, I've no idea what the odds are on Denmark winning it, but it could prove fruitful to put some money on them:cool:
Marco.
Disappointed to see Wales go out tonight, but Denmark played really well.
Yeah, a game too far it seems(and not unexpected). The Danes are a decent side and having had CE become ill will have galvanised them.
italy dominating their match now. surprised if they dont win it.
Yup, but I knew Austria would be stuffy! And so it's proving..
Marco.
second half to the austrians but no breakthrough so extra time now.. italians need to find that extra gear
typical that as soon as I bet on them they start struggling.
Lol - not so much struggling, but not quite at their best, largely because of how well Austria played! Sometimes you have to give credit to the opposition, who succeed in stopping you from playing your game, and who also have attacking threats of their own, which is pretty much what happened last night:)
I knew that Italy couldn't keep winning every game by 3-0, but when they didn't and were forced to dig deep into their reserves of fitness and resilience, as they were last night (everyone knows they're a skillful side on the ball, but not so much how good they were at the 'ugly' side of the game), I wanted to see how they'd cope, and in that respect they did well.
That augurs well for their ability to either progress deep into this tournament or win it, as there'll be other games where silky 'fantasy football' is off the agenda and they'll have to roll up their sleeves, dig in, and doggedly stick to their game plan. That's what they did last night, eventually tiring out Austria and creating the necessary space to punish them. Chiesa's goal was simply sublime!
Well done though to Austria, who kept going right to the end, scoring a good late goal of their own, thus making the last 10 mins or so of extra time 'squeaky bum' time for the Italians, who in all honestly I'd have worried about had it gone to penalties. However, the Azzurri march on, and it'll be interesting seeing how they'll perform in their next match, and against whom!:cool:
Marco.
will i think go for, predictably, Netherlands and Belgium to progress. The Belgium game should be the standout match, maybe of the tourney.
Lol - not so much struggling, but not quite at their best, largely because of how well Austria played! Sometimes you have to give credit to the opposition, who succeed in stopping you from playing your game, and who also have attacking threats of their own, which is pretty much what happened last night:)
I knew that Italy couldn't keep winning every game by 3-0, but when they didn't and were forced to dig deep into their reserves of fitness and resilience, as they were last night (everyone knows they're a skillful side on the ball, but not so much how good they were at the 'ugly' side of the game), I wanted to see how they'd cope, and in that respect they did well.
That augurs well for their ability to either progress deep into this tournament or win it, as there'll be other games where silky 'fantasy football' is off the agenda and they'll have to roll up their sleeves, dig in, and doggedly stick to their game plan. That's what they did last night, eventually tiring out Austria and creating the necessary space to punish them. Chiesa's goal was simply sublime!
Well done though to Austria, who kept going right to the end, scoring a good late goal of their own, thus making the last 10 mins or so of extra time 'squeaky bum' time for the Italians, who in all honestly I'd have worried about had it gone to penalties. However, the Azzurri march on, and it'll be interesting seeing how they'll perform in their next match, and against whom!:cool:
Marco.
Italy created a record for longest time without conceding in this game too...
anubisgrau
27-06-2021, 12:47
touch of class from wales - get well soon christian eriksen
bravo!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E40j9LaVUAM-K0I?format=jpg&name=large
Yeah, quality:clap::)
Marco.
Oops, that wasn't meant to happen!:eek:
The sending off was the killer, though... More comment later, but it makes Scotland's defeat to the Czechs in the first game look much better!:D
Let's see what happens now in the big one... I reckon Portugal could cause an upset, although much will depend on how 'on it' Ronaldo is, ditto De Bruyne and Lukaku.
Marco.
dutch were always an outside bet for me but yes, its disapponiting they are out. they are a better side than they showed
Well, in a tight match, which to be honest Portugal never really looked like winning, Belgium deservedly progress to the quarter finals. I did say earlier in the thread I didn't think Portugal would win the competition twice in a row, and so it's proved, although after having watched them recently I thought they had the capacity to shock Belgium, but which didn't prove true.
To address the previous question, Ronaldo, unfortunately from a Portugal point of view, wasn't 'on it' enough, but Hazard was, and despite some late huffing and puffing from Portugal, his excellent goal was enough to win the game for Belgium, who I must say I was impressed with defensively. That was an area of concern for me previously, in terms of their ability to go on and win the tournament, however I've seen enough of them now to be confident that they'll at least get to the final.
Croatia vs. Spain will be an interesting one later, although I wouldn't expect too much excitement, unless Spain have another 'nose bleed' and bang in the goals like they did in their last match, but I see this one as being more cagey, possibly going to extra time and maybe even penalties. It'll be interesting for me, in terms of whether Croatia can kick on from their superb performance against Scotland, or whether that was simply the dying embers of greatness from an ageing team, and Spain could exploit that.
One thing's for sure, they'll handle Modric rather better than we did!:doh:
Marco.
Belgium vs Italy or France in the final then?
Belguim have 2 big injuries from last night and a day less than Italy to recover. Inclined to think Italy may become favs.
rmcin626
28-06-2021, 09:27
Belguim have 2 big injuries from last night and a day less than Italy to recover. Inclined to think Italy may become favs.
You could be right Grant, 2 of their main men going off injured but still too strong for Portugal
Belgium vs Italy or France in the final then?
Highly likely, if the draws work out favourably beforehand. However, don't rule out Germany or England.
In terms of the latter, only Italy for me look to be as strong defensively/capable of keeping clean sheets, and England are also usually always capable of scoring a goal, so if they keep that up, it can only end one way..;)
Personally, I'd love to see an England vs. Italy final, as I think it'd be a cracking game!
Marco.
Belguim have 2 big injuries from last night and a day less than Italy to recover. Inclined to think Italy may become favs.
Good point, mate. The still have strength in depth though, but those injuries could become an issue.
Marco.
Highly likely, if the draws work out favourably beforehand. However, don't rule out Germany or England.
In terms of the latter, only Italy for me look to be as strong defensively, and England are usually always capable of scoring a goal, so if they keep that up, it can only end one way..;)
Personally, I'd love to see an England vs. Italy final, as I think it'd be a cracking game!
Marco.
It would but I'd be massively conflicted :lol:
You could be right Grant, 2 of their main men going off injured but still too strong for Portugal
They are a very good team but rely on both players to just produce that spark that eases them passed teams.
It would but I'd be massively conflicted :lol:
its been 55 years since england won a major trophey,(and we still hear about it;)) so if Southgate actually knew his best team and the best way to play, then they are overdue another success. On their day they can probably beat anyone, but its getting them on their day for more than one game a year
its been 55 years since england won a major trophey,(and we still hear about it;)) so if Southgate actually knew his best team and the best way to play, then they are overdue another success. On their day they can probably beat anyone, but its getting them on their day for more than one game a year
Agree.
big Spain comeback and they lead 3-1. surely they are through.. think the goalie needs changed tho;)
well croatia have nicked a goal and its 6 mins overtime... fingers will be chewed:D
edit edit... its 3-3:doh: must be the worst defence in the competition
Told you it would be tight and go into extra time! Just didn't think there'd be as many goals:eek:
I'm rooting for Croatia (as indeed is the princess), and think they can do it, although extra time may have come to soon for them. Spain need to regroup. I do admire Croatia, though, for their never-say-die attitude, and that they're so 'tournament hardened'.
Extra time begins!!
Marco.
Told you it would be tight and go into extra time! Just didn't think there'd be as many goals:eek:
I'm rooting for Croatia (as indeed is the princess), and think they can do it, although extra time may have come to soon for them. Spain need to regroup. I do admire Croatia, though, for their never-say-die attitude, and that they're so 'tournament hardened'.
Extra time begins!!
Marco.
well they are the team on front foot.. they need to make it count before spain get a break
well its happened. sorry princess. croatia must be out now . a quick 1,2 and its 5-3; and after croatia looked like running away with it
Yup, she's all upset:( I said that extra-time came too soon for Croatia, and so it proved... More comment later, and also on France vs. Switzerland!:cool:
Marco.
rmcin626
28-06-2021, 18:50
Good game to watch, lots of excitement for the neutral
its been 55 years since england won a major trophey,(and we still hear about it;)) so if Southgate actually knew his best team and the best way to play, then they are overdue another success. On their day they can probably beat anyone, but its getting them on their day for more than one game a year
I know where you're coming from, but if you compare Southgate's win ratio with that of other England managers before him, you'll see he's up there with the best: https://www.adducation.info/general-knowledge-football/england-football-managers/
You have to remember he's still a very young manager, and learning, so will make mistakes.
Look at the level of experience of some of the managers before him, but with poorer win ratios.. Mark my words, he's on his way to building a very good England team, and will eventually go down as one of the country's most successful managers, especially if his players and him can beat Germany tomorrow!
Marco.
Yup, she's all upset:( I said that extra-time came too soon for Croatia, and so it proved... More comment later, and also on France vs. Switzerland!:cool:
Marco.
...which will now be tomorrow morning, as I'm going to bed. BUT, another shock and fantastic game of football, as Switzerland, deservedly I have to say, put out the favourites, France!:eek:
Over to you now England, to dispose of Germany, and pave the way for Italy to win the tournament!:lol:;)
:goodnight:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2021, 06:59
My sweepstake team (Czech Republic) has come through for me - £20 for "lowest ranking team to make the knockout stages" or something. Maybe more winnings to come :)
lucky swine, all I've got left now is Italy thanks to that dismal French performance. Switzerland FFS.
Still got me £30 ticket for Italy at 6-1. :D
Anyone know what colours the Three Lions are wearing tonight against the Germans at what will be an overcast and damp Wembley?
Hope it's Red.
If it's red we've got more of a chance.
Pre-match nerves really going now.
Nerves jangling here too... think we are in White. Keep your shape boys.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/50941428
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjY6k5aTgik
Lol... Sorry chaps, been busy, as it's unexpectedly turned into a scorcher here in sunny Wrexham! Currently, a shade under 24C:)
I'm confident England will win, but it'll only be by the odd goal, and it could go to extra time, but I don't think pens!:D
What annoys me though, as usual, is that the BBC TV pundits and commentators all *automatically presume* that everyone watching is an England fan...with their 'we', this and 'we' that malarkey, FFS.... And gems such as: 'Are YOU nervous at home?'
NO I'm fucking not!!:lol: Come back and ask me that when Italy play!
Marco.
think it will be a close game. england are due a win over germany in a major. no prediction tho:D
judging by the amount of folk on site everyone is watching lol
so i see its been a fairly even 1st half with germany starting well and england finishing strongly.
all to play for
Lots of chances, maybe we can get one in second half.
looks good now i see. 2-0.. onwards for england:)
There you go, nice and simples, told ya! :D
Well done to England. That was well overdue.
Some proper comment in a mo - just out to water me plants!
Marco.
well that was a satisfying victory. Pickford was great especially.
well that was a satisfying victory. Pickford was great especially.
yeah his save will be the best since gordon banks, im sure :ner::D
anubisgrau
29-06-2021, 18:17
england gonna win this. if they play the best football on this tournament is a completely another topic.
I went for a swim at the beach the last half hour. It was all to tense for me. But saw Sterling's goal at the Lord Palmerston Pub window in Southsea. The roar was immense! And then heard a second roar 10 minutes later passing the Jolly Sailor. :)
Good game, wasn't it. Our goalie Pickford deserved a bunch of flowers after Muller and Werner's misses. Sterling is on fire. He goes 27 games without a goal, and is now scoring nearly every game. Tidy finish by Harry Kane too. Very lively midfield for England too. Oh well, one game at a time! :eek:
But everbody all smiles in Pompey tonight. Singin' "It's coming Home". We have waited 55 years for that. Incredible.
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2021, 19:12
Lol... Sorry chaps, been busy, as it's unexpectedly turned into a scorcher here in sunny Wrexham! Currently, a shade under 24C:)
I'm confident England will win, but it'll only be by the odd goal, and it could go to extra time, but I don't think pens!:D
What annoys me though, as usual, is that the BBC TV pundits and commentators all *automatically presume* that everyone watching is an England fan...with their 'we', this and 'we' that malarkey, FFS.... And gems such as: 'Are YOU nervous at home?'
NO I'm fucking not!!:lol: Come back and ask me that when Italy play!
Marco.
Well it was an England v Germany game, It's a fair assumption that anyone watching it on British TV will be rooting for England. Could you not have watched it on BBC Cymru, or are they not arsed with it now they're history? :) Unless you can't understand the language, in which case shame on you :ner:
Well it was an England v Germany game, It's a fair assumption that anyone watching it on British TV will be rooting for England.
Yes, but the point is, Britain isn't England, and I can assure you that most of Scotland (and a good chunk of Wales) would've wanted to see you pumped!;)
Therefore, the BBC (and ITV) shouldn't just assume that everyone watching the game (being broadcast throughout the UK) will be an England fan, including folks such as Del who's half German, and indeed many others or her ilk.
I can assure you that she wasn't rooting for England!:ner:
Anyway, as I said, well done. I'm getting too good at this prediction malarkey... Shame I'm not a betting man!:D
Marco.
But everbody all smiles in Pompey tonight. Singin' "It's coming Home". We have waited 55 years for that. Incredible.
Don't get too excited - you're only in the quarter finals!;)
Marco.
I am a betting man. But always support all the Home teams. It's why we are the United Kingdom. And proud of it.
I thought the coverage was quite inclusive. Jurgen Klinsmann was gracious about the whole thing. Radio 5 Live included thoughtful German pundits too.
Booing the German anthem was poor behaviour, IMO. Fired the Germans up IMO.
Anyhoo:
https://www.oddschecker.com/football/euro-2020/winner
England 2/1
Spain 3/1
Italy 4/1
Belgium 7/1
10/1 The Field
Who'd have thought! :)
Happy for Gareth Southgate, particularly. We all know why.
I am a betting man. But always support all the Home teams. It's why we are the United Kingdom. And proud of it.
Well I simply live in the UK, but am not British. I'm proud to be a Scottish Italian lol, nothing else!:D
I support Scotland and Wales, but aren't fussed whether England win or lose. What would annoy me though, if they did win this, is that we'd NEVER hear the end of it - just like 19 fooking 66!!:doh:
I've nothing against the manager or players, just the English media and their tendency towards jingoism.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2021, 19:31
Yes, but the point is, Britain isn't England, and I can assure you that most of Scotland (and a good chunk of Wales) would've wanted to see you pumped!;)
Therefore, the BBC (and ITV) shouldn't just assume that everyone watching the game (being broadcast throughout the UK) will be an England fan, including folks such as Del who's half German, and indeed many others or her ilk.
I can assure you that she wasn't rooting for England!:ner:
Anyway, as I said, well done. I'm getting too good at this prediction malarkey... Shame I'm not a betting man!:D
Marco.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Scotland and Wales both have their own channels. So watching "English" BBC or ITV isn't necessary. I could moan about how much more coverage is given to football than to archery, or that F1 gets more airtime than British Superbikes, but I don't because I understand it's all about viewing figures ;)
rmcin626
29-06-2021, 19:32
i thought it was a pretty poor game after what we have seen in the last couple of days. Although it was not too big a surprise with England starting 7 defensive players, all the pundits were not exacting praising Southgate before the game for his selection although that all changed by full time.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Scotland and Wales both have their own channels. So watching "English" BBC or ITV isn't necessary.
Nope, not for this sort of stuff. Some regional programmes, in terms of dramas or soaps, perhaps, but not major football tournaments. We get *exactly* the same coverage (same commentators, same TV pundits) as you (unfortunately in this case)!
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2021, 19:52
So when Scotland or Wales were playing, did the pundits and commentators 'root' for them, or take a neutral position? I don't know, I didn't watch them.
i thought it was a pretty poor game after what we have seen in the last couple of days. Although it was not too big a surprise with England starting 7 defensive players, all the pundits were not exacting praising Southgate before the game for his selection although that all changed by full time.
It was dire until England scored. In fact the commentators were moaning about the 'fire going out' of the game just before that happened! Let there be no mistake, this is a cack German team compared with those of old, who by the skin of their teeth just scraped past Hungary, so for that reason I was pretty sure that England would win.
However, not JUST for that reason, but as I've said before, despite what his detractors think (and I suspect some may have changed their minds now), I rate Southgate as a manager and think he's on a 'journey' (which started at the last World Cup) towards building a very good England team, capable of winning tournaments - and for one main reason: he's made them difficult to beat.
Too often in the past, with England teams full of better players than this one, some genuine world class, despite that have been too easy to beat! It's one of the reasons that before today, they've succumbed so often to Germany, plus one other key factor was that the majority of their goalkeepers until now have been either suspect or inconsistent.
Pickford, who had a superb match today, and so far has had a superb tournament, has really embraced an England shirt and seems to relish playing for his country at this level, and that's made a massive difference, plus the defence in front of him seem equally solid. As I've said, for me only Italy are comparable defensively (possibly arguably a little better), and teams who don't lose many goals and also carry a threat upfront, such as this England team, are the ones who win tournaments.
Marco.
I am much happier as a Neutral in Soccer games... less likely to collapse with nerves. :eek:
Anyway, the Feast of Football continues.
Sweden versus Ukraine now:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport
1-1 at half time. I'm not sure if I dreamt this or it really happened, but IIRC Chris Eubank (The fierce Brighton boxer with a lisp) was asked for his prediction of a Sweden game.
He remarked that he has always admired "The Thilky Thoccer Thkills of Thweden"
Dark horses.
So when Scotland or Wales were playing, did the pundits and commentators 'root' for them, or take a neutral position? I don't know, I didn't watch them.
Well, the Scots and Welsh representatives on the panel did!:D
Anyway, having made my point, I don't want to dwell on this or spoil any England fan's right to be over the moon tonight, at what was a great result, so let's move on:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2021, 20:03
Wath Mithter Eubank wearing hith Therriff's badge?
Think I'd rather we get Sweden than Ukraine.
Wath Mithter Eubank wearing hith Therriff's badge?
Come again?:hmm:
Marco.
Think I'd rather we get Sweden than Ukraine.
I know where you're coming from, but not sure I agree. One thing I'd say though is that England share with Scotland their propensity generally to play better against the better teams, and slip up against the so-called lesser ones, and also England don't wear the tag of favourites well - not that Scotland ever get that luxury!:D
However, remember what Iceland did to England in the last Euros? They have to guard against that when they meet either Sweden or Ukraine. However, I think that this England team are made of far sterner stuff:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
29-06-2021, 20:14
Come again?:hmm:
Marco.
A reply to Steve's post (#414). It will make no sense if you know nowt about Chris Eubank.
Ah right, no worries. That's why I usually quote the person I'm replying to, so that everyone else knows that's whom I'm addressing, otherwise it looks like a reply to the post that preceded it, which may belong to someone else:)
And yes, I know little about Chris Eubank, other than he had a rather posh voice for a boxer and had (perhaps still has?) a penchant for wearing a monocle and dressing as an 'English gent' - an eccentric.
I rather liked him.
Marco.
I always liked Eubank, very precise boxer.
Also his persona and style in and out of the ring, great man in my opinion - he also got arrested for protesting against Tony Blair getting us involved in Iraq:
"On 14 October 2003, Eubank was intercepted by police whilst driving around Parliament Square, Westminster, in his truck, which displayed the message "TONY BLAIR! MILITARY OCCUPATION CAUSES TERRORISM". He completed a number of circuits before he was arrested.[13] On 22 February 2007, Eubank was arrested outside Horse Guards Parade in Whitehall for a suspected breach of the peace after driving through central London in his truck, which was emblazoned with a message condemning Tony Blair for sending Prince Harry to Iraq.[14] The banner read "BLAIR – Don't send our young prince to your catastrophic illegal war, to make it look plausible!" On 23 May 2007, he was charged with making an unlawful anti-war protest after parking his seven-ton truck outside Downing Street. On 16 November 2007, he failed to turn up at court, so an arrest warrant was issued, and he was fined."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Eubank#Anti-war_activism
Classic, far more to the man than one might think :)
Brutal and intense game between England's next opponents, either Sweden or Ukraine at Hampden. :stalks:
Complete horror tackle by Swede Danielson on Besedin of Ukraine. Largely accidental, but Sweden get a Red Card. Besedin's knee went sideways.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/50941429
I hate watching stuff like that. 15 minutes to go. Maybe penalties now.
Thanks for that, Guy. Interesting... Yeah, he sounds like my kinda guy:)
Marco.
Great winning goal from Ukraine! So they will now be England's opponents in the quarter finals. I think they'll give them a hard game, especially when this time England will be away from home and in Rome.
For me, that's their potential banana skin. If they can win that game, and return to Wembley for the semis, then I think they'll reach the final.
Marco.
I watched a bit of it. Unless you have been living under a Stone, we are all buddy, buddy with Ukraine these days. :)
Saturday night in Rome will be intense. Evening kick-off is good. Could be hot.
Ukraine now 28-1. But no pushovers.
Indeed not. Shevchenko is tactically astute, plus his team have an excellent togetherness and work ethic, in that respect rather like England. They also don't concede many goals and have a threat upfront.
However, Friday's games will be interesting, most notably the Belgium vs. Italy game, which has the makings of a cracker, and no doubt will be Italy's sternest test yet!
From an England point of view though, regardless of who wins that one, it'll be one less team that would potentially pose a serious threat to their notions of winning the tournament, *presuming* that they can get passed Ukraine.
Marco.
anubisgrau
30-06-2021, 10:22
As I said before, England gonna win this. They ain't the best, their skill is far from the nicest we have seen so far, but they have a good mix of workhorses and creative ones plus excellent goalkeeper. They were very lucky with the tournament draw (Germany is just a shade of once a great team, they way how they detonated themselves yesterday was really not kraut at all). Plus they play semis and finals at home.
Basically it is only Belgium with their super destructive football (armored concrete defense with or without counterattacks - with Courtois they can easily play on 0:0 and wait for the penalites) that can stop England. I think it's only Belgium who wins with less impressive statistics than England - they beat Portugal with 1 goal from 1 shot on the goal. England had much better 2/2 agains Germany. Italy can't do anything against 7-8 defensive players in GS layout.
Not sure I agree, as I think it'll be very tight indeed with Italy vs. Belgium, and either team would give England a hard game. As, IMO, would Spain, and probably Denmark, who at times made Belgium look ordinary.
That doesn't mean I don't think England won't win it, but I don't see it being as straightforward as you make out. I think that they'll be severely tested away from home by Ukraine, and if they get through that match, then we'll assess how far they could go from there.
One of the things that's so annoying about either England or Scotland doing well (the latter as in when they managed to qualify for the Euros), the fans and media going WAY, WAY over the top, in terms of what their respective teams are going to achieve, and in the process setting themselves up for a fall, which has happened far too often in the past with both of them!:doh:
Time for England fans, particularly in the media I feel, just for once, to be more measured, pragmatic, and ultimately realistic, keep their feet on the ground and take one step at a time, instead of letting their emotions run away with themselves, only later to come crashing down to earth with a bang!!
Marco.
i agree Marco.. The web is full of how England won and will now likely win it. bbc is covered in it:doh::D still its what we have come to expect.
If Belgium are at full strength they can beat Italy but i feel that game may be won by whatever side scores first. The swiss will be tired i expect and spain have not looked convincing so that could go any way. I will side with the Spanish; they have more class.
i agree Marco.. The web is full of how England won and will now likely win it. bbc is covered in it:doh::D still its what we have come to expect.
Indeed, mate. Same old, same old. The BBC 10 o'clock news devoted about 10 mins to it last night (England beating a poor German team), as if they'd won the bloody tournament!:doh:
Do they not realise that all this crap does is make both neutrals (and England haters) wish that they fall on their arses, and Ukraine give them a right good pumping??:rolleyes:
They never learn!! And England fans wonder why the whole country (as in the UK) doesn't get behind them? Well, it's because we get subjected to this pish, as soon as they get the merest sniff of winning something!
Time, me thinks, for t-shirts to be printed again with 'Anyone but England' written on the front. Remember that from before?:D;)
Marco.
Indeed, mate. Same old, same old. The BBC 10 o'clock news devoted about 10 mins to it last night (England beating a poor German team), as if they'd won the bloody tournament!:doh:
Do they not realise that all this crap does is make both neutrals (and England haters) wish that they fall on their arses, and Ukraine give them a right good pumping??:rolleyes:
.
We realise. We just don't care :D
Any real football fan is realistic about our chances. It's the media's job to hype things up. Bums on seats love.
Much gloom, gnashing of teeth, weeping and wailing going on in Germany right now! The Twilight of the Gods, Gotterdammerung. If I can quote Wagner.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57666389
It wasn't that bad. Quite a close game IMO. But after 1970, 1990, 1996 and 2010, we were statistically going to land something. No bad run continues forever.
But, TBH, meinen freunden. Some of you are looking a bit "Curmudgeonly" (an ill-tempered stubborn person..). The German word is Schadenfreude. Means wishing your opponents ill.
Temperature forecast in Rome on Saturday, 26C and 30% humidity against a physically tough side in Ukraine. Doesn't sound too ruinous.
England have tremendous strength in depth. And home advantage (Which is worth 66%) if we get through.
Still think the Azzurri are better, and have £30 on them, but this is going to be WEMBLEY!
No one seems to have mentioned the downside to the England squad winning a game, so I will:
I f*****g hate "it's coming home" that bloody piss poor "song" really annoys me :steam:
prestonchipfryer
30-06-2021, 19:54
Huge boost for England. I'm glad they beat Germany. Bloody good for them. Stuff the rest. :)
Pigmy Pony
30-06-2021, 20:45
[QUOTE=Marco;1279176]
They never learn!! And England fans wonder why the whole country (as in the UK) doesn't get behind them? Well, it's because we get subjected to this pish, a soon as they get the merest sniff of winning something!
England fans need wonder no more, now that you've told them...
Actually no, the real reason the rest of UK doesn't get behind England is historical. They have been shit on by successive governments and monarchies for centuries, and really know how to hold a grudge. Still think they are hard done by, and unwilling to accept that the English themselves also get the shitty end of the stick if their postcode's wrong.
It even showed itself in "The X Factor" (which I never watched, not ever), where Scottish or Irish "artists" did better in the public votes than their talent warranted. Reason being: English would vote for "hopeful" A because they liked him, Scottish would vote for "hopeful" B because he was Scottish. And the Irish were just as bad (remember Jedward?) :spew:
One of the surprising things about Our England Three Lions Football anthem, is that Germany totally embraced it! Into winning. :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjY6k5aTgik[/QUOTE]
Euro 2020 is far more uncertain. I like everything about Italy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWc7vYjgnTs[/QUOTE]
Happy either way.
We realise. We just don't care :D
Any real football fan is realistic about our chances. It's the media's job to hype things up. Bums on seats love.
LOVE? How quaint!:D
Firstly, you can only get as many 'bums on seats', as Covid restrictions currently allow!:ner:
But more seriously, yes I agree with your comment about football fans, but the point is that the media, with their 'hyping up', isn't doing the TEAM any favours, as it simply comes across as arrogant and makes Shevchenko's pre-match team talk on Saturday very easy, simply by showing his players the antics that have been going on here since yesterday, where it appears that England have already won the tournament, despite only being in the quarter finals!:doh:
All he has to do is say to his players, in his best Ukrainian: 'Look at those arrogant twats; they think they're already won, so go out there and prove them wrong!' That's my point. You've effectively just shot yourselves in the foot. Of course, you may still win the match, but you haven't made that job any easier.
And it's the same carry on every time England play in a major football competition and win a few matches, all you hear is the 'football's coming home' crap, when inevitably they end up coming home, all right, but having won fuck all:lol:
Now, as discussed, it may well be different this time, but it's the arrogant attitude of the media and TV pundits, over-hyping the team's chances, which irks everyone else in the country who doesn't view international football solely through the eyes of an England flag!:rolleyes:
Instead if they had played it down, been more cautious, took things a step at a time and showed some HUMILITY, and subsequently succeeded to do well, they would've endeared themselves rather more to everyone else following this tournament, including people abroad. Quite simply, in sport neutrals root for the unassuming underdogs, not the overbearing blowhards.
Therefore, it may be the dubious job of the media to do what you say, but it simply results in creating resentment towards England more than anything else, and the fact that you (and I suspect many other England fans) don't seem to care about that, is a big part of the problem.
Marco.
Nothing arrogant about England. Lost too many times. But some good players, and an excellent deep bench, this year.
And looking good with the Money Men!
https://www.oddschecker.com/football/euro-2020/winner
2-1 England
3-1 Spain
4-1 Italy
7-1 Belgium (Seriously Banged up IMO. Hard Cheese, Hazard and De Bruyne doubtful.)
10-1 Denmark
25-1 Czech Republic
25-1 Switzerland
33-1 Ukraine
Ukraine fading. Let's be Honest, Scotland and Wales won't win the Euros in the next Million years. Sorry.
Actually no, the real reason the rest of UK doesn't get behind England is historical. They have been shit on by successive governments and monarchies for centuries, and really know how to hold a grudge. Still think they are hard done by, and unwilling to accept that the English themselves also get the shitty end of the stick if their postcode's wrong.
It even showed itself in "The X Factor" (which I never watched, not ever), where Scottish or Irish "artists" did better in the public votes than their talent warranted. Reason being: English would vote for "hopeful" A because they liked him, Scottish would vote for "hopeful" B because he was Scottish. And the Irish were just as bad (remember Jedward?) :spew:
Lol, whist some of that may be true, it's got nothing to do with the point I'm making or my own feelings.
As I said, I've got nothing against Gareth Southgate or his players, indeed, as I've said, I rather like him as a manager and a man, and before all the usual 'hoo-hah' started after England beat Germany, I was cool about the prospect of them doing well in the competition and wishing them all the best.
However, after witnessing what's gone on since that win (which btw I have no problem with fans severely celebrating, as they were entitled to, and good luck to them), and the overbearing levels of smugness and arrogance from the English TV pundits and media, I have to ask myself the question now, that should England lose to Ukraine on Saturday, or indeed subsequently to anyone else in the lead up to the final, or final itself, will I be able to stop myself from gleefully celebrating their failure, simply in retaliation to all the smug behaviour from the media?
It's a question that I wouldn't have had to ask myself before yesterday, as if England had played well and deserved to win, I'd have been wishing them well accordingly. However, I suspect that I won't be the only one now asking themselves that question, who's following this tournament and doesn't have a St George's flag tattooed to their forehead, and that could've been easily avoided:doh:
Marco.
Nothing arrogant about England. Lost too many times.
As per usual, you're not listening. It's not the England team or the manager who are guilty of arrogance; it's the TV pundits and media.
Let's be Honest, Scotland and Wales won't win the Euros in the next Million years. Sorry.
Of course not, but that's not the point.
The point is, we're well aware of, and indeed embrace, our limitations - and so should England (as in the media and TV pundits), lest the England team, as victims of the behaviour of their TV pundits and media, wish to be hated by everyone else, as no-one likes a blowhard.
However, some English fans appear to revel in not giving a fuck, which simply exacerbates the problem.
Marco.
No one seems to have mentioned the downside to the England squad winning a game, so I will:
I f*****g hate "it's coming home" that bloody piss poor "song" really annoys me :steam:
Me too, and so far the only thing that's come home, if they've been lucky, is a suntan.
Marco.
Worse songs than "Coming Home" IMO.
And nothing wrong with having a bit of Fire in your belly.
Everyone does it:
Let's look at the French Anthem. "La Marseillaise."
Arise, children of the Fatherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us, tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised, (repeat)
Do you hear, in the countryside,
The roar of those ferocious soldiers?
They're coming right into your arms
To cut the throats of your sons, your women!
I'd call that Fighting Talk! :eek:
And the Germans. "Deutschland Uber Alles"
Germany, Germany above all,
Above all in the world,
When, for protection and defense,
It always stands brotherly together.
From the Meuse to the Memel,
From the Adige to the Belt,
Germany, Germany above all,
Above all in the world!
Germany, Germany above all,
Above all in the world!
Pretty clear whose side they are on! :lol:
What about Dear old Blighty? "God save the Queen."
O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall:
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix:
God save us all.
We have it in for Johnny Foreigner IMO. :rolleyes:
In fact one of the few peaceful anthems I have found is the Norwegian one, "Vi elske dette Landet"
Yes, we love this country
as it rises forth,
rugged, weathered, over the water,
with the thousands of homes, —
love, love it and think
of our father and mother
�� and the saga-night that lays
dreams upon our earth. ��
We are terrible peoples IMO. :eek:
But enjoy our Footie more than War.
LOVE? Very classy!:D
'Bums on seats love' is a well known show-business expression. Sorry, I often forget you've never heard of anything...
It's not about the number of people in the stadium, it's about television ratings - not just for the games but for the news programmes that report on the games.
The English have never done humility and we're not going to start now.
Worse songs than "Coming Home" IMO.
And nothing wrong with having a bit of Fire in your belly.
Everyone does it:
Let's look at the French Anthem. "La Marseillaise."
I'd call that Fighting Talk! :eek:
And the Germans. "Deutschland Uber Alles"
Pretty clear whose side they are on! :lol:
What about Dear old Blighty? "God save the Queen."
We have it in for Johnny Foreigner IMO. :rolleyes:
In fact one of the few peaceful anthems I have found is the Norwegian one, "Vi elske dette Landet"
We are terrible peoples IMO. :eek:
But enjoy our Footie more than War.
They don't like it up em captain:stalks:
'Bums on seats love' is a well known show-business expression. Sorry, I often forget you've never heard of anything...
It's not about the number of people in the stadium, it's about television ratings - not just for the games but for the news programmes that report on the games.
The English have never done humility and we're not going to start now.
yes, luvvies or loveys are an actors name for actors. bums on seats is just their appreciative audience
yes, luvvies or loveys are an actors name for actors. bums on seats is just their appreciative audience
It's a cynical expression but it reflects the reality which is that if no-one turns up to see your show it gets cancelled and you don't eat. Consequently you do whatever it takes to get the punters in.
'Bums on seats love' is a well known show-business expression. Sorry, I often forget you've never heard of anything...
Yes, of course I've heard of 'luvvies', but I didn't instantly grasp that's what you were referring to. And I've heard of what I've heard of. There'll be plenty of things I've heard of that you haven't, on subjects you've little or no interest in, so don't be patronising.
'Bums on seats' is also a term used in football (and other sports), in reference to attracting fans to stadia, which since we were talking about football, is what I thought you were referring to, so in that context your use of 'love' made no sense.
It's not about the number of people in the stadium, it's about television ratings - not just for the games but for the news programmes that report on the games.
Yes, but it's simply pandering to the lowest common denominator, as usual. In any case, that doesn't make it right, or not liable to get up the noses of folk who don't want to hear about England, England, fooking ENGLAND!:rolleyes:
Not everyone (paying TV licence holders) in the UK watching the games or the news is English, or indeed an England supporter, so broadcasters should understand and respect that fact. Simples!
The English have never done humility and we're not going to start now.
Well that's just a typical response, which doesn't help matters, and smacks of sheer arrogance. I'm glad you admit it though, so you'll understand then then why it creates resentment from others who aren't jingoistic, flag-waving England fans?
It was also quite appalling and totally disrespectful the England fans who were booing the German national anthem before the game, but I suspect you'd condone that, too?
Marco.
I'm not admitting anything it's a statement of fact.
Seems to me it's okay for everyone else to celebrate success but not the English.
I mean I don't think we're going to win it, I've bet on Italy FFS! - I'm not about to deny the over-enthusiastic England fans their moment in the sun though. That just seems mean-spirited.
I'm not admitting anything it's a statement of fact.
So you'll understand then why the English are considered as arrogant and disliked by many people abroad, for that very reason: a lack of humility and an unjustified sense of superiority. It's certainly not a problem that the Scots, Welsh or Irish suffer from.
Seems to me it's okay for everyone else to celebrate success but not the English.
That's not the point I'm making, and well you know it!
I mean I don't think we're going to win it, I've bet on Italy FFS! - I'm not about to deny the over-enthusiastic England fans their moment in the sun though. That just seems mean-spirited.
Neither am I, and indeed have said so. Do you actually read what I write, or simply superimpose your bias onto what's written, then respond to what you've imagined you've seen instead?
I've already said that I don't begrudge the fans celebrating. Fans are fans; they don't need to be rational. I'm talking about the behaviour of the English TV pundits and media, who should be more responsible. However, I've said my piece and won't be repeating myself again, only for it to go in one ear and out the other.
However, I have to say that your reaction here is disappointing and only serves to reinforce the image many people have of the English when it comes to sporting events such as this.
Marco.
So you'll understand then why the English are considered as arrogant and disliked by many people abroad, for that very reason: a lack of humility and an unjustified sense of superiority. It's certainly not a problem that the Scots, Welsh or Irish suffer from.
That's not the point I'm making, and well you know it!
Neither am I, and indeed have said so. Do you actually read what I write, or simply superimpose your bias onto what's written, then respond to what you've imagined you've seen instead?
I've already said that I don't begrudge the fans celebrating. Fans are fans; they don't need to be rational. I'm talking about the behaviour of the English TV pundits and media, who should be more responsible. However, I've said my piece and won't be repeating myself again, only for it to go in one ear and out the other.
.
But I already replied to that point - it's the job of the TV pundits to hype it up and get more viewers watching. It's what they are there for, it's not as a public service, even on the BBC. The driving force is always the ratings.
Although I don't watch foreign telly I'll bet it's a pound to a penny that it's exactly the same in any other country. You can always choose not to watch the punditry. I never bother myself because, as you say, it's over the top nonsense and doesn't add anything to the experience for me. When the game finishes I switch over.
But I already replied to that point - it's the job of the TV pundits to hype it up and get more viewers watching. It's what they are there for, it's not as a public service, even on the BBC. The driving force is always the ratings.
You mean English viewers? That's my point - why is it seemingly only THEIR interests that matter, and not also those of the many thousands of Scots, Welsh and Irish TV licence payers, watching the SAME coverage of the games, who're unlikely to want to have England rammed down their throats like that.
Although I don't watch foreign telly I'll bet it's a pound to a penny that it's exactly the same in any other country
As I've said before, the difference here is that, unlike in, say, Italy or Germany, said biased coverage/rampant patriotism is almost guaranteed to be preached to the converted, i.e. an Italian or a German, who's likely to support their home nation, and therefore appreciate such.
It's different in the UK because the 'home nation', for the viewers in question, could be any one of FOUR different countries, all of whom almost certainly won't be rooting for England or interested in being subjected to over the top fanboyism - and so the English media and TV pundits who dominate the commentary of these games should respect that fact and make allowances for it.
Simples!:)
And turning off the commentary and not listening is not the answer, not simply because that crap shouldn't be happening in the first place, but it spoils your viewing pleasure, as it kills the atmosphere. Apart from anything else, I like to hear the crowd noise, which my home-cinema system compliments.
Would you go to a football ground and watch a game in silence? No, well it's the same when at home watching it live on TV.
Therefore, the answer is to address/curb the pro-English bias, not pretend it's not there, and I have an effective solution to such, which I'll propose later.
Btw, just to be absolutely clear, I'm not saying that English TV pundits or commentators aren't entitled to be patriotic or celebrate an historic England win {not at all], simply rein in their 'overexuberance', in consideration for the many thousands of neutrals watching, who when listening to the commentary at home, don't want to feel like their living rooms have been invaded by a pub full of England fans, because trust me, that's what it sometimes feels like!
That's not too much to ask, is it?:cool:
Marco.
Well, is it too much to ask or what?:)
My idea for diluting the pro-England bias/overexuberant patriotism, from TV pundits during England games, is always to ensure that one of the match commentators or co-commentators isn't English, such as Ally McCoist, Graeme Souness or Roy Keane, so that they could keep such in check!
I've no idea why a) both the commentator and co-commentator during England games always seems to be English, or b) why, to my knowledge, the main commentators for ANY of the games during this tournament have so far always been English, such as Jonathan Pearce, Guy Mowbray, etc.
Can anyone think of any non-English commentators [that's the main commentators, not their deputies] used during these Euros, for UK BBC or ITV broadcasts? I can't... So that could be another way of tempering English bias, as in employing the services of a non-English commentator for England games, partnered by an English co-commentator (or vice versa), to keep things balanced and fair.
Plus, I'd ensure that the pundits in the studio were evenly divided between English and non-English, and therefore 2 + 2, rather than 3+1, in favour of England, as is often the case. For me, all of the above would help solve the current problem, as outlined, and provide more evenly balanced/neutral reporting on games involving England. After all, we all pay the same TV licence fee, and so are entitled for our loyalties to be equally represented during these tournaments.
What say you all?:cool:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
01-07-2021, 22:16
You stated earlier that Wales and Scotland don't have their own televised coverage of the matches. I'm betting they are the only countries in Europe who don't. So my solution would be for them to put their hands in their pockets and address this.
I suppose I'm missing the point again, but your point keeps shifting from berating arrogant England fans while complaining about the media coverage, to understanding the England fans' exuberantly celebrating their landmark win, to suggesting you might be smiling a little if England end up on their arses, because of the arrogance and bias of a few people who you really don't need to listen to. Like Macca I switched off after the match. Or if you're watching it with your surround sound, knock out the centre channel!
And the point you made about watching a televised match and having to suffer the biased commentary - I would suggest finding the opposing side's coverage on tinternet (I'm sure you have the wherewithall to do this). Ok you won't understand what they're saying, but at least it won't be silent. Though I'm betting their commentary will be heavily biased towards their side ;)
Better still, buy tickets and go and see them live - all the atmosphere without any of the commentary :)
Pigmy Pony
01-07-2021, 22:28
Well, is it too much to ask or what?:)
My idea for diluting the pro-England bias/overexuberant patriotism, from TV pundits during England games, is always to ensure that one of the match commentators or co-commentators isn't English, such as Ally McCoist or Roy Keane, so that they could keep such in check!
I've no idea why a) both the commentator and co-commentator during England games always seems to be English, or b) why, to my knowledge, the main commentators for ANY of the games during this tournament have so far always been English, such as Jonathan Pearce, Guy Mowbray, etc.
Can anyone think of any non-English commentators [that's the main commentators, not their deputies] used during these Euros, for UK BBC or ITV broadcasts? I can't... So that could be another way of tempering English bias, as in employing the services of a non-English commentator for England games, partnered by an English co-commentator (or vice versa), to keep things balanced and fair.
Plus, I'd ensure that the pundits in the studio were evenly divided between English and non-English, and therefore 2 + 2, rather than 3+1, in favour of England, as is often the case. For me, all of the above would help solve the current problem, as outlined, and provide more evenly balanced/neutral reporting on games involving England. After all, we all pay the same TV licence fee, and so are entitled for our loyalties to be equally represented during these tournaments.
What say you all?:cool:
Marco.
I say it sounds a bit like an equal opportunities scheme, with carefully managed quotas representing all races, ages, genders and abilities. like a Labour Council. It might just work! :)
I'm English, of Irish descent, with little interest in football and even less knowledge. Not worth me applying I suppose :( But you could give it a shot - the pro-English bias would certainly meet it's match :)
You stated earlier that Wales and Scotland don't have their own televised coverage of the matches. I'm betting they are the only countries in Europe who don't. So my solution would be for them to put their hands in their pockets and address this.
Well, that's fine, and I'd be all for that, but until that happens I'd like to have my interests during England football games, as a neutral and licence fee payer, as equally catered for as those of England fans, on both the BBC's and ITV's coverage of such, and I don't think that's too much to ask.
I suppose I'm missing the point again, but your point keeps shifting from berating arrogant England fans while complaining about the media coverage, to understanding the England fans' exuberantly celebrating their landmark win, to suggesting you might be smiling a little if England end up on their arses, because of the arrogance and bias of a few people who you really don't need to listen to.
Not at all, it's quite simple, so allow me to clarify:
1) Fans are fans; there is no onus on them to be rational or unbiased, so I have no issue with that, save those who appear to be blatantly unapologetic for the claimed lack of humility of the English (such as stated by Macca), and by dint, arrogance. So what makes the English lack humility - do they somehow consider themselves as superior to everyone else, or what?
2) It was fine for the English media and TV pundits to celebrate an historic win over Germany, but in order to consider the many thousands of non-England fans watching the football coverage or national news, who won't be viewing it through English-tinted spectacles, should be mindful of over-zealous patriotism, verging on jingoism, especially acting as if they'd just won the tournament, thus arrogantly dismissing the opponents they've yet to face, in order to do so.
3) My main beef, therefore, is with the pro-England bias of the English TV pundits and commentators, broadcasting throughout the UK, not only to England, but Scotland, Wales and Ireland, who should be more responsible, and I have suggested a way to help address this.
Like Macca I switched off after the match. Or if you're watching it with your surround sound, knock out the centre channel!
That's fine, but why the hell should I? The point is, I shouldn't have to listen to them droning on (as outlined) about England in the first place! As I've said, pretending it's not there is no substitute for eradicating or diluting it *at source*!
And the point you made about watching a televised match and having to suffer the biased commentary - I would suggest finding the opposing side's coverage on tinternet (I'm sure you have the wherewithall to do this). Ok you won't understand what they're saying, but at least it won't be silent. Though I'm betting their commentary will be heavily biased towards their side ;)
Once again, WHY should I have to do that/go to that bother, simply to find the unbiased commentary (or at least non-rampant England fanboy coverage) I'm entitled to in the first place, as someone who pays the same licence fee as an England fan?
Marco.
I say it sounds a bit like an equal opportunities scheme, with carefully managed quotas representing all races, ages, genders and abilities. like a Labour Council. It might just work! :)
I'm English, of Irish descent, with little interest in football and even less knowledge. Not worth me applying I suppose :( But you could give it a shot - the pro-English bias would certainly meet it's match :)
Glad you think that what I've suggested could work and help solve the problem. All I'm interested in is what's fair and equal, as I have an abhorrence of unfairness and inequality in ALL aspects of life, not simply in sport.
However, too often in the UK, in various matters, are the interests of England prioritised over that of the countries making up the rest of the UK, and as a result them simply treated as second-class citizens [this is a case in point] - and it *rips my knitting* like you wouldn't believe!!
England *isn't* Britain, and therefore the interests of the rest of the home nations, in sport or anything else, should be catered for as equally as those of England. Simples.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
02-07-2021, 06:19
Well, that's fine, and I'd be all for that, but until that happens I'd like to have my interests during England football games, as a neutral and licence fee payer, as equally catered for as those of England fans, on both the BBC's and ITV's coverage of such, and I don't think that's too much to ask.
Marco.
I am sympathetic to your issues on this, but I've highlighted that bit above to suggest that you really need a less passive approach. As I feel this is where your problem lies. If the Welsh and Scottish broadcast channels got their shit together you could possibly dump your TV licence, and pay a fee to your new telly providers. I suggest you get writing to them or camp outside their studios, or whatever might work. Because you'll have an uphill task trying to persuade the "English" TV companies to fix something they'll feel isn't broken.
I too pay a licence fee, but have to put up with all the crappy soaps, property shows, cookery shows, buy some shit cheap and sell it for a profit shows. But I suppose they're not going anywhere because plenty of folk do like that garbage. So I'll suffer in silence :(
I don't really understand why anyone watches the punditry. It's of no value. Quite often I don't even have the commentary on. I watch it with the sound down and some music on.
Really it's a hangover from radio where you needed a bloke to tell you what was happening. I have a 55'' telly, I can see whose got the ball and what they're doing with it.
It looks like England is severely under represented.
Perhaps we should go for some sort of proportional representation :D
Characteristic Estimated mid-year population
South East 9,217,265
London 9,002,488
North West 7,367,456
East England 6,269,161
West Midlands 5,961,929
South West 5,659,143
Yorkshire and the Humber 5,526,350
Scotland 5,466,000
East Midlands 4,865,583
Wales 3,169,586
North East. 2,680,763
Northern Ireland 1,895,510
I am sympathetic to your issues on this, but I've highlighted that bit above to suggest that you really need a less passive approach. As I feel this is where your problem lies. If the Welsh and Scottish broadcast channels got their shit together you could possibly dump your TV licence, and pay a fee to your new telly providers. I suggest you get writing to them or camp outside their studios, or whatever might work. Because you'll have an uphill task trying to persuade the "English" TV companies to fix something they'll feel isn't broken.
Firstly, your last comment is telling, valid, and a big part of the problem, so please answer this:
In reality, is it the BBC. or really the EBC: ENGLISH Broadcasting Corporation, catering predominantly for English interests? And if it's the latter, that's your problem right there [and a prime example of unfairness and inequality], as last time I looked, there were FOUR countries making up Britain (the UK), with England being but only one.
Therefore, if they were truly the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation, then their output would cater just as much for Scottish, Welsh and Irish interests, as English, or at least a damn sight more than is currently the case, and that would duly be reflected in their coverage of international football.
Secondly, as I've already said, I'd love BBC and ITV Wales (or Scotland) to have their own coverage of the Euros (or World Cup), blissfully free of pro-England bias, but it simply won't happen. It'd cost too much for starters, and I've got other things to do than waste my time pursuing the fruitless task you've suggested of exploring other avenues for my football fix, as it's a non-starter.
Plus, as I've already said, there should be no need for that, as the bias highlighted shouldn't exist in the first place!
I too pay a licence fee, but have to put up with all the crappy soaps, property shows, cookery shows, buy some shit cheap and sell it for a profit shows. But I suppose they're not going anywhere because plenty of folk do like that garbage. So I'll suffer in silence
Yes, but that's a different thing, though. It's much easier for you to avoid that stuff completely, by simply not watching it, than in my case as a massive football fan, but not a supporter of England, sitting down to watch coverage of the Euros, on what is supposed to be BRITISH, not English TV, and painfully failing to avoid an OTT pro-England bias.
As I said, reducing the English presence both in the TV studios and commentary positions during England games, would go a long way towards addressing the problem, and would cost nothing, save spoiled England fans not getting quite as much Englishness in the coverage as they'd like, BOO-HOO!:D
Anyway, there's no point going round in circles with this, as it won't take us anywhere useful. It's enough for me that you recognise the issue and are sympathetic towards it. If only others, especially those in influential positions, were the same!:)
Marco.
I don't really understand why anyone watches the punditry. It's of no value. Quite often I don't even have the commentary on. I watch it with the sound down and some music on.
Which bit of this, Martin, don't you understand (from earlier):
turning off the commentary and not listening is not the answer, not simply because that crap shouldn't be happening in the first place, but it spoils your viewing pleasure, as it kills the atmosphere.
Apart from anything else, I like to hear the crowd noise, which my home-cinema system compliments. Would you go to a football ground and watch a game in silence? No, well it's the same when at home watching it live on TV.
I notice you didn't reply..;) I don't listen to music when the footy's on, as 100% of my concentration is on the game!
As for the punditry, you may have noticed, based on my match reports here and how I discuss football in general, that my interest isn't simply restricted to enjoying the match action, but also extends to listening to and absorbing information, during the pre and post-match discussions, which any keen student of the game would do.
Think of my interest in football, and in digesting the minutiae of team selections and tactics, as being similar to your interest in hi-fi.
However, when as a licence payer, I sit down to watch what is supposed to be BRITISH, not merely English coverage of games, I obviously should expect not to be bombarded with irritating, OTT fanboyism (such as was witnessed after the Germany game), from professional presenters and broadcasters who should be more responsible and aware that their output isn't simply being 'enjoyed' by the English.
They should celebrate, yes, by all means, but keep it measured and professional, and remember WHERE you are, which is live on TV, not in a pub with your mates. Simples!!
In any case, I'm in danger of continuously repeating myself, as a result of you either being unable or unwilling for it to compute.
Really it's a hangover from radio where you needed a bloke to tell you what was happening. I have a 55'' telly, I can see whose got the ball and what they're doing with it.
All that does is show that you're a part-time football fan, which is evident from the minimal, rather basic way you discuss football, and that's fine, but some of us, who are very passionate about the game, like a bit more 'meat on the bone'.
And btw, could you please explain why you consider the English as incapable of humility, as you stated yesterday, and why you believe that is so?
It certainly doesn't apply to the many nice English people I've known throughout the years, some of whom have become close friends, and all of whom are ably capable of humility, and are also blissfully free of jingoistic arrogance.
Therefore, does this claimed lack of humility simply refer to rabid English football fans or what? From the evidence I've seen, the latter is more likely true:)
Marco.
Which bit of this, Martin, don't you understand (from earlier):
I notice you didn't reply..;) I don't listen to music when the footy's on, as 100% of my concentration is on the game!
As for the punditry, you may have noticed, based on my match reports here and how I discuss football in general, that my interest isn't simply restricted to enjoying the match action, but also extends to listening to and absorbing information, during the pre and post-match discussions, which any keen student of the game would do.
Think of my interest in football, and in digesting the minutiae of team selections and tactics, as being similar to your interest in hi-fi.
However, when as a licence payer, I sit down to watch what is supposed to be BRITISH, not merely English coverage of games, I obviously should expect not to be bombarded with irritating, OTT fanboyism (such as was witnessed after the Germany game), from professional presenters and broadcasters who should be more responsible and aware that their output isn't simply being 'enjoyed' by the English.
They should celebrate, yes, by all means, but keep it measured and professional, and remember WHERE you are, which is live on TV, not in a pub with your mates. Simples!!
In any case, I'm in danger of continuously repeating myself, as a result of you either being unable or unwilling for it to compute.
All that does is show that you're a part-time football fan, which is evident from the minimal, rather basic way you discuss football, and that's fine, but some of us, who are very passionate about the game, like a bit more 'meat on the bone'.
And btw, could you please explain why you consider the English as incapable of humility, as you stated yesterday, and why you believe that is so?
It certainly doesn't apply to the many nice English people I've known throughout the years, some of whom have become close friends, and all of whom are ably capable of humility, and are also blissfully free of jingoistic arrogance.
Therefore, does this claimed lack of humility simply refer to rabid English football fans or what? From the evidence I've seen, the latter is more likely true:)
Marco.
I'm not a part-time fan but I wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert. On the other hand I don't think the TV after-match analysis is profound in any way, it's just stating the obvious, so I don't see the point of watching it.
I don't think the English are 'incapable of humility', but I don't see how it's relevant to football at all.
Can only speak for myself but I don't know any England fans who are in the slightest bit concerned as to what foreigners think of them. This applies both to the vast majority who, like me, are well-behaved, courteous and polite and the ones who like to get drunk and chuck the plastic furniture around. So you're on a non-starter there.
Also IME fans from all other countries are the same, there's nothing special or different about the England fans.
I'm not a part-time fan but I wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert. On the other hand I don't think the TV after-match analysis is profound in any way, it's just stating the obvious, so I don't see the point of watching it.
I'm not an expert either, but I enjoy following football in a little more detail than simply watching a ball being kicked about, and so when discussing the subject, what I write reflects that.
I usually enjoy both the pre and post-match analysis, whether it's 'profound' or not, when it's blissfully free of OTT England fanboyism, and which in that respect in general was fine up until the ridiculous antics by BBC pundits after the German game.
I don't think the English are 'incapable of humility', but I don't see how it's relevant to football at all.
So could you please explain this earlier remark, and what it was based upon, as it appears to somewhat contradict the above:
The English have never done humility and we're not going to start now.
Sorry, but: "The English have never done humility" sounds quite close to: "the English are incapable of humility", so perhaps you could differentiate between both?
Is it that they're capable, but simply choose not to practice it, or what? And who exactly are "the English" in question - simply footy fans or the English nation as a whole?
When I first read that, I have to admit that I hit the roof, as I cannot stand what appears to be unashamedly [and undeserved] sheer arrogance, and the "we're not going to start now" bit makes it even worse, or am I missing some form of irony?:)
It's relevant to football in the sense that if what you say is true, then it explains some of the behaviour of both fans and TV presenters after the German game.
Marco.
P.S the other thing I'd add is that I (and also my English friends) always try and be good ambassadors for our respective countries when abroad, so in that respect care very much about how we're perceived by our foreign hosts.
My comment about the English not doing humility was a bit of a wind-up I'll confess to that :D
I don't think humility is the right word actually. Your talking about being gracious in victory?
Obviously I agree on that, like I said I switch over at full time as none of what follows after that (punditry, player and manager interviews) matters as far as I'm concerned and they always say the same old stuff. So I didn't see what was said by the pundits afterwards. I can't imagine that it was that over the top though? (Although I can imagine Wrighty going for it a bit, but that's just what he's like).
My comment about the English not doing humility was a bit of a wind-up I'll confess to that :D
Lol, I'll let you off the hook just this once;)
I don't think humility is the right word actually. Your talking about being gracious in victory?
No, nothing to do with that, simply having the HUMILITY [there's the key word] to acknowledge that the English are not automatically superior to any other nation, and when abroad always to be a good ambassador for your country, remembering that YOU are *their* GUEST, rather than that they should somehow feel 'honoured' you've graced them with your presence, as IME many Brits, not just the English, seem to think.
That's certainly how I behave abroad, and so care how I'm perceived by the local community.
Therefore, if I'm representing Scotland, Italy or Wales, I don't want folk to think that I'm some arrogant lout who only gives a damn about himself, and which is also one of the reasons why before arriving in any foreign country, I always ensure that I can speak at least a few words of the local lingo, rather than being so arrogant as to assume that they will speak English, as it's only polite to do so.
That kind of thing, which for me is normal behaviour, and practiced by anyone who's been brought up to have manners:)
So I didn't see what was said by the pundits afterwards. I can't imagine that it was that over the top though? (Although I can imagine Wrighty going for it a bit, but that's just what he's like).
They were all going tonto in the studio, Ferdinand, Lineker, etc, shouting and bawling and punching the air like hooligans, which was completely unprofessional [behaviour fit only for your own living room or a pub], and which of course was followed later in the evening by a separate, near 10-min slot on the 10 o'clock news, reporting on the England win, in which it was portrayed as if they'd won the tournament, not merely reached the quarter finals.
As you've said, it's the job of the media to hype things up, but as I've also said, you need to take a step back and see how (arrogant) that behaviour looks from the outside, to a non-England fan, thus the subsequent opinion formed of you by others. Not to mention the booing of the German national anthem, before the game by England fans, which was simply disgraceful:rolleyes:
Did you not hear that, or did you have the sound turned down?:D
Now if you don't give a shit, that's fair enough, but then don't be surprised or complain if in future you're subjected to anti-English treatment (based upon said arrogance/lack of respect, and so a legitimate cause of resentment), when holidaying abroad as a supposedly polite, well-behaved Englishman, as you'll only have others and yourself to blame, unless you prove to them that you're different!:cool:
Marco.
They were all going tonto in the studio, Ferdinand, Lineker, etc, shouting and bawling and punching the air like hooligans, which was completely unprofessional [behaviour fit only for a pub], and which of course was followed later in the evening by a separate, near 10-min slot on the 10 o'clock news, reporting on the England win, in which it was portrayed as if they'd won the tournament, not merely reached the quarter finals.
.
Okay there's two separate things here so I tackle this first:
In the old days you would not see the pundits going bananas although they would be clearly pleased. That's just symptomatic of the general downward slope in standards. We're getting old, it's not our generation out there anymore. So yes I agree they should show more restraint but it's not going to happen. Also this happens in all countries TV sport now, not just UK.
Short of broadcasting separate commentaries for Wales and Scotland I'm not sure how you can get round it.
spain one up on le suisse
Okay there's two separate things here so I tackle this first:
In the old days you would not see the pundits going bananas although they would be clearly pleased. That's just symptomatic of the general downward slope in standards. We're getting old, it's not our generation out there anymore. So yes I agree they should show more restraint but it's not going to happen. Also this happens in all countries TV sport now, not just UK.
Short of broadcasting separate commentaries for Wales and Scotland I'm not sure how you can get round it.
For me it's not about getting old - manners, respect and professionalism should be timeless and *automatically* practised by ALL broadcasters and pundits. Those guilty on this occasion weren't far from our age, so not youngsters!
Anyway, what about the rest of what I wrote - do you sign up to my definition of 'humility'?
Marco.
Lol, I'll let you off the hook just this once;)
No, nothing to do with that, simply having the HUMILITY [there's the key word] to acknowledge that the English are not automatically superior to any other nation, and when abroad always to be a good ambassador for your country, remembering that YOU are *their* GUEST, rather than that they should somehow feel 'honoured' you've graced them with your presence, as IME many Brits, not just the English, seem to think.
That's certainly how I behave abroad, and so care how I'm perceived by the local community.
Therefore, if I'm representing Scotland, Italy or Wales, I don't want folk to think that I'm some arrogant lout who only gives a damn about himself, and which is also one of the reasons why before arriving in any foreign country, I always ensure that I can speak at least a few words of the local lingo, rather than being so arrogant as to assume that they should speak English, as it's only polite to do so.
That kind of thing, which for me is normal behaviour, and practiced by anyone who's been brought up to have manners:)
Yes I behave myself because I have manners, not because I'm in another country. People who don't have manners don't have them regardless of what country their in. They're not going to stop behaving like complete twats just because they've in Spain for a week.
And every country has complete twats not just England.
If I'm abroad and someone has decided to tar all English with the same brush and treats me accordingly they'll just get it back. Not something I'm going to worry about. Although I've been all over and it's never happened yet. Except New York and Paris but they're rude to everyone there so it doesn't count.
rmcin626
02-07-2021, 16:49
Going with Spain tonight and enjoying the paella
Yes I behave myself because I have manners, not because I'm in another country. People who don't have manners don't have them regardless of what country their in. They're not going to stop behaving like complete twats just because they've in Spain for a week.
And every country has complete twats not just England.
I agree with all of that, but unfortunately justified or otherwise, IME 'the English' [not you, or I suspect anyone else here] have a rather poor reputation abroad and are considered as arrogant and having an unjustified superiority complex, based on the type of behaviour we've been discussing. Therefore, unfortunately when abroad, the good guys, such as you, can indirectly become victims, and lumped in with all the dickheads.
As an example of such, I can tell you as a statement of fact, that travelling to France and Italy by car, since my parents took me with them in the early 70s, and rarely going near any big cities, where I agree attitudes are different, and subsequently turning up at restaurants or hotels with a 'GB' sticker on our car, that there have always been significant gains to ensuring that the owners and staff knew we were Scottish, Welsh or Italian, NOT English.
Indeed, watching their faces light up once they discovered such (as to them a GB sticker on a foreign car invariably meant English occupants), and enjoying the subsequent improved levels of food and service, was always a source of surprise and amusement!:D
Anyway, just something to bear in mind, in terms of the relevance of the age-old sayings: 'You reap what you sow', and 'What goes around comes around'. Therefore in my view, it's always best to treat your fellow man, no matter their nationality, with due courtesy and respect, as if not, one day it's likely to come back and bite you on the bum - and so today's generation of boorish and disrespectful England fans would do well to consider that;)
Marco.
I agree with all of that, but unfortunately justified or otherwise, IME 'the English' [not you, or I suspect anyone else here] have a rather poor reputation abroad and are considered as arrogant and having an unjustified superiority complex, based on the type of behaviour we've been discussing, and unfortunately when abroad the good guys, such as you, can indirectly become victims, and lumped in with the dickheads.
As an example of such, I can tell you as a statement of fact, that since travelling to France and Italy by car, since my parents took me with them in the early 70s, and rarely going near any big cities, where I agree attitudes are different, and subsequently turning up at restaurants or hotels with a 'GB' sticker on our car, that there have always been significant gains to ensuring that the owners and staff knew we were Scottish, Welsh or Italian, NOT English.
Indeed, watching their faces light up once they discovered such (as to them a GB sticker on a foreign car invariably meant English occupants), and enjoying the subsequent improved levels of food and service, was always a source of surprise and amusement!:D
Anyway, just something to bear in mind, in terms of the relevance of the age-old sayings: 'you reap what you sow', and 'what goes around comes around'. Therefore in my view, it's always best to treat your fellow man, no matter their nationality, with due courtesy and respect, as if not, one day it's likely to come back and bite you on the bum - and so today's generation of England fans would do well to consider that;)
Marco.
ive had same abroad and especially in ireland
What, better treatment once they knew you weren't English?
Marco.
What, better treatment once they knew you weren't English?
Marco.
yes very much so. a totally different attitude tbh. one of friendship rather than antagonism
Well, there you go! And that doesn't just happen without justified reason:)
Marco.
Yes it's called prejudice.
Yes it's called prejudice.
i agree but it comes from??? i will leave everyone to add their own ideas.
its not my impression overall but i do understand why they might feel that way. i had it in germany and spain, long before lager louts too
Yes it's called prejudice.
Yes, but what causes that prejudice?
Arguably, it could be justified, based on how you 'put yourself out there' in life. As I said, what goes around, comes around...
Ask yourself why, say the Scots or Welsh, don't have the same problem abroad - could it be because, as nations, they're intrinsically more HUMBLE?;)
The point I'm making is that the behaviour of all the arrogant, ill-mannered assholes, supporting your country, over the years in football competitions, as witnessed once again after England's recent win over Germany, and elsewhere before that, doesn't go unnoticed!!!
And rightly or wrongly, or whether you care or don't care, ultimately there's a price to pay for that, in terms of your reputation.
:trust:
Anyway, let's concentrate now on the football, as Switzerland are giving boring Spain a game of it, who aside from a few notable exceptions, generally do the minimum they can to win!:doh:
My gut though says they'll scrape through in extra-time, as with Switzerland down to 10 men, I doubt they'll hold out.
Marco.
Keep up, daftee!:D;)
I'd *sooo* love the Swiss to win this one, as Spain are often rather negative, and I just don't enjoy their style of football. They're only in this game so far courtesy of an own goal!
Marco.
Spanish seem to be playing possession fitty. Now it's 1-1 they need to come out. Maybe at end of half or extra time. They have their plan, like it or not
Yes, but unfortunately it's incompatible with the ENTERTAINMENT business!:rolleyes:
Marco.
I doubt Spain to be likely winners but they are hard to beat
Up in bed, in agony and that's after whisky.
I doubt Spain to be likely winners but they are hard to beat
Yes, and also something else beginning with a'B'.....
Bloody BOOORRRINNGGG!!!:ner:
Marco.
Up in bed, in agony and that's after whisky.
Sorry to hear that mate, hope it eases soon!:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
02-07-2021, 18:44
I notice you didn't reply..;) I don't listen to music when the footy's on, as 100% of my concentration is on the game
Marco.
Well actually it's about 90%, 10% is given over to tutting loudly at the biased coverage, which currently is occupying 100% of this football chat - not that I'm complaining, football talk isn't my bag, man :)
Sorry, I wasn't going to say any more on this, but I cracked under the pressure :doh:
Drats... Spain won a pretty terrible penalty shootout, with more missed than scored! If Switzerland had won, I was about to remind folks of this prediction, posted at the beginning of the thread:
On last night's form, so do I, but it'll be hard for them to maintain that level of performance throughout the tournament. I think Switzerland will give them the hardest test in the group (although I hope I'm wrong and instead it will come from Wales), as indeed are the Swiss my tips for dark horses because they have some great players throughout their team.
Close!:doh::D
However, I guess one could argue that getting even to this stage has to an extent earned them that title. Spain were dire, and so if by some miracle they fluke their way to winning this competition, it'll be as bad as when Greece did it by boring everyone to death!
Marco.
Well actually it's about 90%, 10% is given over to tutting loudly at the biased coverage, which currently is occupying 100% of this football chat - not that I'm complaining, football talk isn't my bag, man :)
Sorry, I wasn't going to say any more on this, but I cracked under the pressure :doh:
Lol - I'd rather you shared your erudite thoughts with me on this: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?73151-UEFA-Euro-2020-(now-2021)&p=1279408#post1279408
... or if responding to nothing else, commenting on the notion of the BBC being, in reality, the EBC?:)
Marco.
Anyway, now for the main event of this evening: Belgium vs Italy!!
'Are you nervous at home?' Yes, I *am* now!!:eek:
Gonna be difficult for Italy and I suspect their sternest test yet. However, England can only gain from whoever goes out, in terms of weakening potential future opposition, *if* they can make the final, as you'd imagine one of these two teams will be there.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
02-07-2021, 19:04
Now if you don't give a shit, that's fair enough, but then don't be surprised or complain if in future you're subjected to anti-English treatment (based upon said arrogance/lack of respect, and so a legitimate cause of resentment), when holidaying abroad as a supposedly polite, well-behaved Englishman, as you'll only have others and yourself to blame, unless you prove to them that you're different!:cool:
Marco.
Personally, I take people as I find them, and like to think right-thinking folk will extend me the same courtesy. But if I was holidaying in say, France, and some dude made a negative judgement of me based on what he'd read or seen on telly somewhere, I'd confirm his prejudices and tell him to stick his string of onions up his arse :)
Fair enough, as do I, but people aren't always rational or fair, and often if you give them a good enough excuse to dislike someone or something and bear grudges, they will, so best just to be nice and not give them that excuse in the first place!
Also, and this can be rhetorical if you wish, what if regardless of anything else, in their years of experience of running a business, their English clients have invariably been boorish or arrogant? How would you expect them to feel, and would such prejudice therefore be understandable, if not justified?
You'll be familiar with the saying 'Your reputation goes before you..'.?;)
Doesn't make it right, but it happens! That's all I'll be saying now on that matter.
Marco.
Stratmangler
02-07-2021, 19:22
The England v Scotland game was on ITV.
You paid as much to see it as I did, Marco.
Nuffink :)
Hi Chris,
Hope you are well, and surprised you haven't contributed to the thread so far:)
Yes, mate, but I'm not talking about England vs. Scotland, I was referring to England vs. Germany, which was on the BBC. I guess the reality is you can't have both the commentary box and studio full of England fanboys and hope to get unbiased coverage:doh:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
02-07-2021, 19:32
Lol - I'd rather you shared your erudite thoughts with me on this: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?73151-UEFA-Euro-2020-(now-2021)&p=1279408#post1279408
... or if responding to nothing else, commenting on the notion of the BBC being, in reality, the EBC?:)
Marco.
I used to put EBC brake pads on my bikes. They were ok I think.
I see what you're saying about how the BBC should be called the EBC. Maybe it should. I agree it's a bit unfair but I don't know what to say about it, and have no answers. Except to say "If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out!" By which I mean if there's something you don't like, and you have no means to change it, walk away and make other arrangements ;)
Stratmangler
02-07-2021, 19:45
I'm well.
Thanks for asking.
As far as that game goes, seeing as how you speak for Wales and Scotland, the BBC should become the EBC, and stop giving transmitter feeds outside of England.
Your national stations WBC and SBC could put on coverage of Eistedffods, and Highland games.
Of course both areas would be relieved of the need to pay a license fee to the EBC, and as terrestrial TV in England would have to be accessed by encrypted broadcast feeds, you wouldn't have to pay a penny, unless you actually want to watch stuff, where it will be made perfectly clear that it's broadcast by the EBC, and if you have anything to complain about with the service then remember that it's broadcast by the EBC, not the WBC or the SBC.
I'm just thinking of solutions to the weighty things you have on your mind :)
Pigmy Pony
02-07-2021, 19:51
You'll be familiar with the saying 'Your reputation goes before you..'.?;)
Marco.
Well all I'll be saying is by way of comment on the above quote, which looked to be on target but just hit the bar ;)
I'm happy for my reputation to go before me, as my reputation is that of honesty, empathy and more than enough humility. If you're meaning the reputation of English people as they are viewed by other nationalities, that's another matter. That looks like racism.
The English do also have a reputation for tolerating other nationalities, even when they're bloody hard work :doh: You'd be hard pressed to find another nation more accepting.
I used to put EBC brake pads on my bikes. They were ok I think.
I see what you're saying about how the BBC should be called the EBC. Maybe it should. I agree it's a bit unfair but I don't know what to say about it, and have no answers. Except to say "If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out!" By which I mean if there's something you don't like, and you have no means to change it, walk away and make other arrangements ;)
...or highlight the obvious and unfair bias, in the hope that it irks anyone in favour of it, simply to make you feel better!:D;)
Marco.
I'm happy for my reputation to go before me, as my reputation is that of honesty, empathy and more than enough humility. If you're meaning the reputation of English people as they are viewed by other nationalities, that's another matter. That looks like racism.
In terms of the bit in bold, so do I, but unfortunately others don't. However, as for the latter, it's not racism; it's prejudice, and simply arguable whether it's justified or not. Rightly or wrongly. I'm afraid it's human nature to judge people as you've found them, as well as FIND them;)
The English do also have a reputation for tolerating other nationalities, even when they're bloody hard work :doh: You'd be hard pressed to find another nation more accepting.
If you're referring to the UK, I think you mean BRITISH, or are the Scottish, Welsh or Irish somehow lacking in such hospitality?
Marco.
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