UEFA Euro 2020 (now 2021) [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Pigmy Pony

11-06-2021, 18:03

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/o5AcfM.png

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/VnTIEC.jpg

Are we all excited, chaps?:D Kick off tonight, with Turkey vs Italy at 8pm.

FORZA ITALIA!:yay::more:

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/R3PUE2.jpg

At least I've got three countries to cheer, Scotland, Italy and Wales. Wonder who'll do the best between those three?:eyebrows:

Any predictions for who you fancy to win the tournament? How do you think Scotland will do against the Czechs on Monday, and overall throughout the tournament?:cool:

England supporters are welcome to comment, too..;)

Marco.

Well I will be rooting for the Czechs, but only because I drew them in a sweepstake. And there's 60 quid riding on it. Well you did ask.

Does this make me a bad person?

The last time I did a Euro sweepstake was in 1996, where the two teams I got out of the hat were the Czech Republic and Germany. Got paid out for winner and 2nd place before the final was even played. The one time I ever won anything.

Macca

11-06-2021, 18:15

Well I will be rooting for the Czechs, but only because I drew them in a sweepstake. And there's 60 quid riding on it. Well you did ask.

Does this make me a bad person?

.

No, it's okay, you were already a bad person.

Marco

11-06-2021, 18:16

Well I will be rooting for the Czechs, but only because I drew them in a sweepstake. And there's 60 quid riding on it. Well you did ask.

Does this make me a bad person?

The last time I did a Euro sweepstake was in 1996, where the two teams I got out of the hat were the Czech Republic and Germany. Got paid out for winner and 2nd place before the final was even played. The one time I ever won anything.

Lol, not at all, mate. You support who you want to support.. I won't say good luck, though!;)

Marco.

Marco

11-06-2021, 18:21

I'll make my predictions for 'our group' later (possibly tomorrow), as well as for the rest of the tournament:)

Marco.

Pigmy Pony

11-06-2021, 18:25

No, it's okay, you were already a bad person.

Well I may soon be a bad person with 60 bones in his sky rocket. Then the birds will be all over me like flies round a cow's arse :) Sixty quid can buy a lot in Chorley

Marco

11-06-2021, 18:38

A few donner kebabs, followed by more than a couple of soapy wanks in the local massage parlours, I'd imagine?:D

Marco.

Pigmy Pony

11-06-2021, 18:51

A few donner kebabs, followed by more than a couple of soapy wanks in the local massage parlours, I'd imagine?:D

Marco.

Even better than that - a few donners with complimentary soapy wanks from the hairy bird that works there Saturdays :)

Marco

11-06-2021, 18:58

Quality... Is she the one who does 'that thing' with a wet kipper and a blowtorch?

Marco.

Marco

11-06-2021, 21:09

Well... From the opening ceremony, with the wonderful Andrea Bocelli singing Nessun Dorma and producing astonishing vocals, Italy showed their intent by playing astonishing football!:yay::clap:

They blew Turkey away, from start to finish, in the first half by passing them to death and tiring them out, and in the second half exploiting that tiredness with a level of pressing and intensity that I've never seen before from the Italian national team. They have real quality throughout the side, from back, middle to front, coupled with a brilliant manager who knows how to motivate and get the best out of his players.

Italy have obviously been smarting since failing to qualify for the 2018 World Cup, which for them was a national disgrace, and have spent the time since building a formidable team. I really didn't expect them to play so well tonight, but it's clear that Mancini (with Vialli in the background as chief delegate) has got something special going on, and whilst trying not to get too carried away, if they can maintain this level of performance throughout the tournament, then they'll certainly be in with a shout of winning it.

However. there's a very long way to go, and I need to see the other top teams play, such as France, Belgium, Portugal, Holland, Germany, Spain and England, and how they look in their first games before I pick my favourite, but it's looking good!

More later:cool:

Marco.

system7

11-06-2021, 23:44

Damn. I thought it was Sunday the Euros kicked off! :lol:

But never mind. If the Azzurris had lost to Turkey, I'd have been surprised. But a slight financial loss, since I fancy the Azzurris.

Pigmy Pony

12-06-2021, 06:11

Quality... Is she the one who does 'that thing' with a wet kipper and a blowtorch?

Marco.

No more blowtorch, not since our local councillor lost half of his wig :doh: Well that's the rumour

Marco

12-06-2021, 06:41

Damn. I thought it was Sunday the Euros kicked off! :lol:

But never mind. If the Azzurris had lost to Turkey, I'd have been surprised. But a slight financial loss, since I fancy the Azzurris.

On last night's form, so do I, but it'll be hard for them to maintain that level of performance throughout the tournament. I think Switzerland will give them the hardest test in the group (although I hope I'm wrong and instead it will come from Wales), as indeed are the Swiss my tips for dark horses because they have some great players throughout their team.

I was rather disappointed in Turkey, but they were simply rendered as unable to play their game, due to the sheer intensity of pressing from Italy and their ability to hold the ball. Turkey will be smarting for sure, so I just hope they don't take it out of Wales in the next game!

Looking forward not just to Wales kicking off their tournament today against the Swiss, but in particular tomorrow to England vs Croatia. That'll provide an inkling as to where England are 'at'.

They're a quality side, and I like Southgate, both as a manager and a person. He's a good guy. For me, those two will finish occupying the two top positions in Group D, as I think Scotland will do well to finish third - more on that later, though:)

Marco.

Marco

12-06-2021, 06:44

No more blowtorch, not since our local councillor lost half of his wig :doh: Well that's the rumour

Ah yes, and rumour has it he lost rather more when his wife found out:eek:

Marco.

struth

12-06-2021, 07:40

so the italians scored 3 in a game... must be a record:ner: well done to them. looking good for next round. wales, finland and begique fantastique tonight:D

Marco

12-06-2021, 07:57

I know...and they could've scored 5 or 6, had they taken their chances, which is just unheard of!:eek:

I'll be watching some of Wales vs. Switzerland before we head out:)

Marco.

Macca

12-06-2021, 15:03

Not a bad effort from Wales, maybe they might get past the group stage.

struth

12-06-2021, 17:34

Christian Eliksen collapsed with what seems like a heart attack in the Denmark/Finland game.(now obviously cancelled) After what seems like an age, he has been transferred to hospital and is stable.
I hope he is ok.

Andy831

12-06-2021, 19:39

Seems to be awake thankfully. It looked dreadful when it happened.

I wondered if it was the heat rather than his heart although they were clearly doing CPR on the pitch. All speculation until we hear officially.

If it was heatstroke though, it does not bode well for Qatar next year!

system7

12-06-2021, 19:59

I am trying to recover from what I saw tonight. That the Finnish/Danish players resumed the game amazes me.

The result means nothing, IMO.

But got 6-1 on the Azzurri. (Italy)

Macca

13-06-2021, 05:43

I am trying to recover from what I saw tonight. That the Finnish/Danish players resumed the game amazes me.

The result means nothing, IMO.

But got 6-1 on the Azzurri. (Italy)

They only re-started after the hospital reported that he was okay.

Marco

13-06-2021, 07:01

Yeah, that was a bit of a shock! I was out in Liverpool last night with Del, and didn't get back until after 11pm, so only caught it when I got back.

So was it simply heart related or a condition prompted by the heat? Anyway, it seems he's made a good recovery and I hope he continues to make a full one.

In terms of the football, I watched the Wales game, and whilst they didn't really play well, got a hard-fought draw against a good Swiss side. That result though certainly suits Italy!:)

As expected, Belgium won against Russia, and from the highlights I saw looked rather impressive. Lukaku is such an fantastic striker! They're certainly be there or thereabouts at the end.

And so to England vs Croatia... As first and foremost a Scotland fan, the ideal result would be a draw, so that if we win tomorrow against the Czechs, we'd go top of the group! Del will certainly be supporting Croatia, as her dad was Croatian, as indeed are half of her family.

For me though, I'll hope for a draw, *but* especially with home advantage, I honestly think England can (and will) win. This isn't the same Croatian side who put England out in the semis of the last World Cup, but a rather aging version of such, so as much as they're a very good team, I think England will have too much quality for them, and so predict a narrow scoring win for England, along the lines of 2-1:cool:

Marco.

struth

13-06-2021, 08:25

dont know if he was defibbed or not but they did cpr. sure it will come out.. seems he was at least lucky to have had it where there were docs and equipement all on site. They say the first 30 secs are most important.
I did train to do cpr when younger.

Marco

13-06-2021, 10:42

Yup, mate, a scary thing, and I guess if something like that was going to happen, where better to get the required professional attention?

I feel sorry for the rest of the Denmark team too, as although they wanted the game to go ahead, and good on them for that, *no way* would their minds have been properly focused on it, and I doubt they'd have lost the game in normal circumstances.

Marco.

Marco

13-06-2021, 12:56

Are we all ready to watch the match, chaps - any last minute predictions?:)

I'll stick with 2-1 to England.

Marco.

struth

13-06-2021, 12:58

1-1

Marco

13-06-2021, 13:05

That would defo do us [presuming we're not pish against the Czechs], but I don't see it. I think there'll be a winner, and I fancy England.

Marco.

rmcin626

13-06-2021, 13:16

1-1

Macca

13-06-2021, 13:58

Boring so far.

Is it just me or is Linaker looking more like Jimmy Hill every day?

They all in need of a shave too. Don't they realise it's going to be on the telly?

I miss Alan Hanson. You never saw Alan Hanson with a scraggy beard.

Marco

13-06-2021, 14:05

Hansen, daftee, but yes I agree - he also always had something interesting to say!:)

England started well, with real pace and intensity, and were unlucky not to score, but since then Croatia have sussed the areas where England were hurting them and closed them off, plus reduced the pace of the game to one that suits them better. I also think the heat's playing a part.

At this rate, my prediction will be way off. 1-0, to someone, or 1-1 is far more likely.

Marco.

Marco

13-06-2021, 14:13

1-0, England. That'll wake things up a bit and force Croatia out!

Nearly 2-0, with Kane (who thankfully wasn't injured after colliding with the post)...

Marco.

Macca

13-06-2021, 14:55

workmanlike performance from England.

It'll do but they'll need to step it up a bit to win the tournament.

Marco

13-06-2021, 14:58

England win, 1-0!

Thought they would win, but by a different scoreline. They were certainly very worthy of the 3 points, and should've won by more. Southgate has them well organised and the team spirit seems good, which is important.

Croatia were hugely disappointing and lacked any kind of real cutting edge, seemingly content with playing slow, tippy-tappy football, without much end product - very BORING... As I said, an ageing side, past their best, but sill difficult to break down.

Anyway, a great start for England. On that form, Scotland will be in for a very difficult game at Wembley!

Marco.

Marco

13-06-2021, 15:00

workmanlike performance from England.

It'll do but they'll need to step it up a bit to win the tournament.

Lol - you fancy them, do you? Not sure about winning it (Italy and Belgium have been much more impressive), but if they keep playing like that they'll certainly have a chance. Looking forward to seeing the other 'big guns' play, such as France and Germany, just to assess where they're at:)

Marco.

Macca

13-06-2021, 15:11

Lol - you fancy them, do you? Not sure about winning it (Italy and Belgium have been much more impressive), but if they keep playing like that they'll certainly have a chance. Looking forward to seeing the other 'big guns' play, such as France and Germany, just to assess where they're at:)

Marco.

I think we have a chance but I don't fancy us to win it. Before the start I was saying Spain or Italy, not seen anything to change my mind yet.

rmcin626

13-06-2021, 15:28

Now for a proper big game Austria v North Macedonia

Marco

13-06-2021, 15:51

North Macedonia are the minnows. It's South Macedonia that have all the superstars. Word.

Marco.

Marco

13-06-2021, 15:58

I think we have a chance but I don't fancy us to win it. Before the start I was saying Spain or Italy, not seen anything to change my mind yet.

Yups... Don't know much about the current Spanish team, so we'll see. Portugal are also being touted as potential winners, and understandably so, but they won it last time, and rarely do the same time win it twice in a row, so (for me, anyway) that slightly rules them out. Possible finalists, though.

As for England, don't underestimate how much of an advantage playing at home is, even only in front of 25,000 fans, so they have that going for them, but most importantly, IMO, the best all-round team they've taken to a major tournament in years. They're a bit like Italy, in that respect: better/more together for not having any outright superstars, and in Southgate a manager ideally suited to the role.

He's his own man (cares not a jot what the media say), never gets flustered and always comes across as focused and professional, plus a genuinely nice guy. All of those things, for me, give England a fighting chance of going all the way - but of course there's a LONG way to go!:cool:

Marco.

struth

13-06-2021, 16:02

Now for a proper big game Austria v North Macedonia

part of the old yugoslavia i think.. austria are decent so would expect them to win it

Macca

13-06-2021, 16:06

Yups... Don't know much about the current Spanish team, so we'll see. Portugal are also being touted as potential winners, and understandably so, but they won it last time, and rarely do the same time win it twice in a row, so (for me, anyway) that slightly rules them out. Possible finalists, though.

As for England, don't underestimate how much of an advantage playing at home is, even only in front of 25,000 fans, so they have that going for them, but most importantly, IMO, the best all-round team they've taken to a major tournament in years. They're a bit like Italy, in that respect: better/more together for not having any outright superstars, and in Southgate a manager ideally suited to the role.

He's his own man (cares not a jot what the media say), never gets flustered and always comes across as focused and professional, plus a genuinely nice guy. All of those things, for me, give England a fighting chance of going all the way - but of course there's a LONG way to go!:cool:

Marco.

mmm,,,don't know about Southgate, not forgiven him for that missed penalty in '96.

We've had worse managers though.

Marco

13-06-2021, 16:13

Lol - plenty of England players have missed penalties, especially against Germany!:D

Trust me, Southgate will do well for England, and indeed so far has done well. He got you to the semi-finals of the last World Cup, and may well do the same (or better) in these Euros.

Marco.

struth

13-06-2021, 17:23

Eriksen did have a cardiac arrest and was shocked once. For the record; he is a lucky boy as he did die.

Marco

13-06-2021, 18:49

Yup, chances are if it'd happened at home, he'd have been dead. Instead, if you're going to have something like that, where it happened would be one of the 'ideal' places, as they're set up to deal with it.

Marco.

Marco

13-06-2021, 21:14

Well, that was a cracker... Best game of the tournament so far, by a country mile! Will comment later, as I'm just off to bed:cool:

Marco.

Marco

14-06-2021, 11:19

Holland certainly looked rather tasty, last night kind of like Italy but with a much worse defence!:D If they keep playing like that though, they'll defo be an interesting watch.. Ukraine were only good in spells, although scored two amazing goals. I can't see them doing too much in the tournament, though. Much will depend on what they get from their next game.

What I liked about the Dutch team though, which is similar to what I've seen so far from the likes of Italy and England, is both the quality of their managers and the close relationship they seem to have with their players. In that respect, I sense that Frank de Boer is on a 'journey' with his team and has something special going on, just like Roberto Mancini and (perhaps) Gareth Southgate.

Genuinely great and successful TEAMS (key word, not simply a collection of individuals), with a winning philosophy, especially those not necessarily expected to win trophies or tournaments, have that instilled in them from their manager. The best example here is what Ranieri achieved with Leicester, and I sense something similar brewing in the England, Italy and Dutch camps, so watch this space..

Anyway, onto today's match, and Scotland vs Czech Republic! What are your thoughts ahead of the game, chaps? I'll give you mine in a mo!:cool:

Marco.

Macca

14-06-2021, 11:24

Scotland will contain them for a while then it will all fall apart. I'll predict one-nil to the Czechs. Second half goal due to a terrible defensive error.

struth

14-06-2021, 11:25

Scotland will contain them for a while then it will all fall apart. I'll predict one-nil to the Czechs. Second half goal due to a terrible defensive error.

well deh:D

struth

14-06-2021, 11:26

will go for a 1-1 draw.

yes im on fence

Macca

14-06-2021, 11:27

well deh:D

lol, I mean it will be one of those goals that shouldn't have happened, as opposed to a goal that always looked likely to be a goal.

rmcin626

14-06-2021, 11:33

Having watched Scotland for a very long time, I’m fairly used to the disappointments, however Stevie Clarke has developed a team that is not easy to score against. I was never a fan of how Kilmarnock played when he was there. He will go for experience today, so time will tell if that’s a good decision or not. Some of the starting players did not finish the season well. We now have several decent players so I’m hoping for the best and a win. either way it will be emotional that’s certain.

Marco

14-06-2021, 12:49

Having watched Scotland for a very long time, I’m fairly used to the disappointments, however Stevie Clarke has developed a team that is not easy to score against...

For me, this is what it'll come down to, or rather he's made us much more difficult to beat. However, historically (even during Clarke's reign) Scotland always find the most difficult way of doing things, and for me *if* we manage to qualify from the group, the same will apply, as it will be far from easy!

Everyone's talking about how much better we are and the quality of players we've got/strength in depth this time, compared with before (and previous campaigns) - all of which is true and represents grounds for optimism, but since we qualified for this tournament there's also been shades of 'Ally's Tartan Army' syndrome [how great we are and what we're going to do], which is worrying and something we must guard against..

In that respect, the consensus of opinion seems to suggest that the Czechs will be easiest to beat and our best chance of getting off to a win, but I don't see it that way, as they played us off the park recently with a second-rate team, and we were very fortunate to win 1-0. This time it will be *very* different, so I'm expecting a tough game, even with home advantage, which I do suspect will help.

Having watched Croatia play, I'd probably fancy our chances more against them, than the Czechs, but I'll have to wait and see, but that's where I think we may get our 3 points... In that respect, I'm predicting a 2-2 draw against the Czechs, as I think there'll be goals in it, which would set us up for Wembley, not ideally, but if we play well today the morale will be good, in a game against the auld enemy that will take care of itself.

Anyway, COME ON SCOTLAND!!:more::more:

Marco.

struth

14-06-2021, 14:04

so, 1 down at half time... macca's defence error has it.. 2 big defenders hustled by one striker...

system7

14-06-2021, 14:40

Adios, Scotland. :lol:

Surely you never seriously fancied your chances in the 2020 (delayed) Euros? :doh:

Czech Rebublic clearly a better side.

All deeply fascinating. I am on the Azzurris this year. Put £30 on them at a slightly disappointing 6-1.

France fancied, Belgium and England second best. But my Dark Horses are Italy. Not the dour side we remember. Apparently quite free-flowing these days under Roberto Mancini. Time will tell. So far, so good.

Marco

14-06-2021, 14:58

Well, for me, the writing was on the wall when it was announced that KT had picked up an injury in training, and so couldn't play.. Not a good omen! :doh: And it totally changed our shape and the dynamics of how we had been playing up until that point.

However, I knew that the Czechs would be a much tougher nut to crack than many thought, and so it proved. We started brightly enough, and created some very good chances throughout the match, which we should've converted, but for some great saves from their keeper, although ultimately didn't have the quality to punish a better team, and they won with a great goal and a wonder goal.

Quite simply, our lack of a proper penalty box striker/deadly finisher was our downfall, and I suspect will be in the matches to come, as we had more than enough good chances (19 attempts) to score the 2 goals that would've achieved my match prediction. Oh, if only Griffo had screwed his nut last year and been fit and available for selection. He'd almost certainly have taken one of those chances, and in particular, we'd have benefited from his dead-ball deliveries at corners and free kicks!:doh:

Although unlikely, qualification, of course, is still possible. However, if we do it, it'll be as I said, the hard way, which quite simply is always the Scotland way!:rolleyes:

The best thing for us is that it's England next, so there'll be no need to motivate the players for that one, although based on what I've seen so far of England, our chances are slim. However, as they say, where there's life there's hope, so we'll see what Wembley brings!

Marco.

Marco

14-06-2021, 14:59

Adios, Scotland. :lol:

What's funny? Not very sporting and quite uncalled for, really. So you're writing us off after only one game... Should we all laugh out loud too, when/if England are bid 'Adios' to this tournament? With an attitude like yours, it would be entirely justifiable!

Marco.

struth

14-06-2021, 15:09

Well, for me, the writing was on the wall when it was announced that KT had picked up an injury in training, and so couldn't play.. Not a good omen! :doh:

However, I knew that the Czechs would be a much tougher nut to crack than many thought, and so it proved. We started brightly enough, and created some very good chances throughout the match, which we should've converted, but for some great saves from their keeper, although ultimately didn't have the quality to punish a better team.

Quite simply, our lack of a proper penalty box striker/deadly finisher was our downfall, and I suspect will be in the matches to come. Oh, if only Griffo had screwed his nut last year and been fit and available for selection. He'd almost certainly have taken one of those chances, and in particular, we'd have benefited from his dead-ball deliveries at corners and free kicks!:doh:

Although unlikely, qualification, of course, is still possible. However, if we do it, it'll be as I said, the hard way, which quite simply is always the Scotland way!:rolleyes:

The best thing for us is that it's England next, so there'll be no need to motivate the players for that one, although based on what I've seen so far of England, our chances are slim. However, as they say, where there's life there's hope, so we'll see what Wembley brings!

Marco.

had a feeling scotland needed the first goal. they nearly got too but wasnt to be

system7

14-06-2021, 15:10

rmcin626

14-06-2021, 15:22

It’s never easy watching Scotland, but there are still 2 games to go and we can still qualify. We need to take our chances which we didn’t do today.

Marco

14-06-2021, 15:35

had a feeling scotland needed the first goal. they nearly got too but wasnt to be

I completely agree, but there's no doubt that a fit and focused Leigh Griffiths would've made a MASSIVE difference to the team!

Also, Jack Hendry isn't the answer, defensively, at international level.

Marco.

Marco

14-06-2021, 15:39

Many where the times when me and Dad would rock up to a Footie Game.

Dad always told me to watch the play rather than my personal bias.

He was a professional.

Anyway, eat Crow you Scots. One of the best goals I have ever seen:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/57474374

Absolute Brilliance!

What's that supposed to mean - yet more jibes/gloating? Do you honestly think it's prudent to behave like this after we (Scotland fans) are hurting after a defeat? FFS, show some courtesy and common sense!:doh:

One more discourteous and insensitive remark like that and you'll be banned for a week, as it's tantamount to thread crapping.

Marco.

system7

14-06-2021, 16:55

Let's be honest. Wales and Scotland have FAT CHANCE of winning the delayed 2020 Euros. :lol:

TBH, I don't fancy England much either. Harry Kane always disappoints me.

NO. Happy with Italy. So far.

struth

14-06-2021, 16:57

always someone who has to be a smart ass.. eat crow means be humiliated..... sad statement

system7

14-06-2021, 17:27

My Honest opinion is the Scots have Zero-chance against England. :lol:

But the real deal will be England's games against France, Belgium, Germany and Italy.

I expect we English will lose to the Germans on Penalties. Why I am on the Italians.

Marco

14-06-2021, 18:08

always someone who has to be a smart ass.. eat crow means be humiliated..... sad statement

Indeed, and not remotely appropriate or funny! Steve, you've been warned.

Marco.

Marco

14-06-2021, 18:12

My Honest opinion is the Scots have Zero-chance against England. :lol:

You do realise that in the unlikely event Scotland win, I *will* rub your nose royally in it like you wouldn't believe!!

:trust:

Anyway, I'm looking forward to getting a look at Spain shortly:)

Marco.

system7

14-06-2021, 19:23

The main interest tonight is Spain against Sweden.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/50940780

If it was played in Stockholm, I might fancy Sweden. But in Spain, with the high temperature, you gotta fancy Spain to slow the game down.

Spain gonna qualify. I always concentrate on the next game. :)

system7

14-06-2021, 21:04

Hopeless effort by Spain tonight! Could'nt even beat Sweden! :lol:

Not that I am looking to either team for much eventual success.

NO. Happy with the 3-0 Azzurri. Italy.

We are winning. :)

Marco

14-06-2021, 21:27

Gawd, Spain are dull! :doh: What a total bore-fest, and the complete antithesis of the exciting match last night between the Netherlands and Ukraine, which was a proper game of football.

TBH, I've never been a big fan of the Spanish national team, even when they had their 'golden era', as for me they tended to wear teams down by passing them to death, rather than playing particularly scintillating football.

I've always preferred teams who play a more dynamic style of football, with high pressing and lots of energy, rather than the 'tippy-tappy' methodical approach, with often no end product, and that was certainly Spain tonight. Toothless, boring and lacking in urgency! Admittedly though against notoriously dogged opposition in Sweden, who actually had better chances to win the game, with one of their strikers missing an open goal...

Anyway, on this evidence at least (unless they markedly improve) I can't see Spain winning the competition, as they lack penetration/goal threat up front and, IMO, aren't at the same level right now as Italy, Belgium, Holland or even England.

Marco.

system7

15-06-2021, 13:39

I thought Holland versus Ukraine was good game.

Meaningless game tonight!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/57458621

After you French Pascal, NO, after you German Fritz. :lol:

Both will qualify. It's a fix. 1-1, I suppose.

anubisgrau

15-06-2021, 13:54

Interesting, hardly a comment on (already) a goal of the tournament.

struth

15-06-2021, 13:57

Interesting, hardly a comment on (already) a goal of the tournament.

not seen any of the games so its difficult:)

anubisgrau

15-06-2021, 14:03

I may be warned if I would post it...

Marco

15-06-2021, 14:03

Regret not having broadcast TV now, daftee?;)

Tournaments like this are *precisely* the reason why I'd never give up my TV licence.

Marco.

system7

15-06-2021, 14:04

As I have frequently observed, watching the sky blues of Coventry City is just like watching Argentina. Except we never had Diego Maradona. Or Lionel Messi:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/57458621

Excellent free kick! :lol:

Marco

15-06-2021, 14:05

I may be warned if I would post it...

Lol - I know exactly what you're referring to, and it's a perfectly acceptable choice, so go ahead!:)

The point is, it's not being done in malice or with any pathetic notions of smart-arsedness;)

Marco.

struth

15-06-2021, 14:18

Regret not having broadcast TV now, daftee?;)

Tournaments like this are *precisely* the reason why I'd never give up my TV licence.

Marco.

me?.. no not a bit bothered tbh.. im not really into sitting watching 90 mins of footy, or even 9 mins. if i really want to see the goals they will be online.
Football is fairly boring actually to watch. with occasional exciting bits which you can usually fit into 3 mins..:ner:

system7

15-06-2021, 14:26

One thing is for sure...

It's not "Coming Home" this year. Severe doubts about England's forward line, IMO. Why I am on the Azzurri (Italy). 6-1 was worse than I expected. But I can live with it.

system7

15-06-2021, 14:54

There was significant speculation in our Home Town of Pompey that Christian Eriksen collapsed due to the wretched SARS Covid-19 Germ attacking his Heart.

Much as it caused me alarm and distress, we can uncount that one. Apparently clear of the germ.

My advice is to get your Two Jabs. Anybody disagree with me that France versus Germany has DRAW written all over it? :lol:

Macca

15-06-2021, 15:29

No I agree, draw, probably nil-nil.

Marco

15-06-2021, 15:40

me?.. no not a bit bothered tbh.. im not really into sitting watching 90 mins of footy, or even 9 mins. if i really want to see the goals they will be online.
Football is fairly boring actually to watch. with occasional exciting bits which you can usually fit into 3 mins..:ner:

Lol, fair enough, but I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I thought you were a proper (diehard) footy fan! For me, as long as I have a team to genuinely support (as in I genuinely care whether they win lose or draw, which applies to Celtic, Scotland and Italy, in that order), there's always some level of excitement.

So do you feel the same when you watch Rangers?

Marco.

Marco

15-06-2021, 15:44

As I have frequently observed, watching the sky blues of Coventry City is just like watching Argentina...

Lol - if you're serious (which I doubt), you're even more deluded than I thought. CC are simply a no-mark diddy team, and so used to winning fuck all:lol:

Seasoned losers, pure and simple.

Marco.

struth

15-06-2021, 15:45

Lol, fair enough, but I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I thought you were a proper (diehard) footy fan! For me, as long as I have a team to genuinely support (as in I genuinely care whether they win lose or draw), there's always some level of excitement.

So do you feel the same when you watch Rangers?

Marco.

i always hope they win of course. but i dont get the games anymore. i can follow on text or online etc. if there are goal, chances are they will be online at some point.
watching footy on your own is no fun really. its a team game and a communal sport to watch. i prefer watching films myself but not footy.
euro games are in evening when im often in bed:D

Marco

15-06-2021, 16:00

i always hope they win of course. but i dont get the games anymore. i can follow on text or online etc. if there are goal, chances are they will be online at some point.
watching footy on your own is no fun really. its a team game and a communal sport to watch. i prefer watching films myself but not footy.
euro games are in evening when im often in bed:D

Lol... That's cool, but then we're fundamentally different in that respect.

When it comes to Celtic, for example, I simply can't get enough, both watching them play live on TV (I'd go to the home games if I still lived in Scotland and fans were allowed in stadiums), watching Celtic TV as a subscriber, reading about them online via fanzines, etc, catching any 'gossip', listening to the radio and responding to phone-ins. In that respect, I'm now on first-name terms with the producer of Superscoreboard at Radio Clyde!:D

Essentially, I live and breathe Celtic, as they're part of my DNA. I get your point about watching footy alone, as it's undoubtedly better with friends or family, but that doesn't stop me when that's not possible, as I'm still glued to the TV and shout the house down when they score or win (as Del and the cats) would attest to!!:lol:

Marco.

struth

15-06-2021, 16:11

Lol... That's cool, but then we're fundamentally different in that respect.

When it comes to Celtic, for example, I simply can't get enough, both watching them play live on TV (I'd go to the home games if I still lived in Scotland and fans were allowed in stadiums), watching Celtic TV as a subscriber, reading about them online via fanzines, etc, catching any 'gossip', listening to the radio and responding to phone-ins. In that respect, I'm now on first-name terms with the producer of Superscoreboard at Radio Clyde!:D

Essentially, I live and breathe Celtic, as they're part of my DNA. I get your point about watching footy alone, as it's undoubtedly better with friends or family, but that doesn't stop me when that's not possible, as I'm still glued to the TV and shout the house down when they score or win (as Del and the cats) would attest to!!:lol:

Marco.

so del got plenty peace this year then ;)

:D

Marco

15-06-2021, 16:48

:lolsign:

Aye, indeed!!

Marco.

system7

15-06-2021, 19:10

Here at Maison system7, there is honestly only one team! :lol:

Chelsea F.C.!

You are either a Norf Londoner, and must suffer watching boring games at dismal Tottenham and Arsenal...

Or a Sarf Londoner, in which case you cheer on Chelsea, Fulham or on away days nip down to the Crystal Palace or Wimbledon. Even been desperate enough to go to minor league Leatherhead on occasion for my footie fix...

Funny thing about Chelsea, seemed like everybody in the team began with an aitch in their heyday. 'Ollins, 'Utchinson and 'Ouseman. Weird, eh?

29529

system7

15-06-2021, 21:15

Excellent Goal by Hummel. :)

France 1. Germany 0

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/50940799

Unfortunately, he thought he was Germany's striker... :lol:

Marco

16-06-2021, 07:48

Well, after watching Portugal last night, I thought they were going to 'do another Spain', by passing Hungary to death, but not really get anywhere, then they got a deflected goal in the 84th minute, which sucked the life out of Hungary, and from then Ronaldo ran riot [what an utter class act he is] and it ended up 3-0, so yes Portugal will remain as one of the favourites to win the tournament.

France vs. Germany? They largely cancelled each other out, as was predicted here, with some mentioning a 0-0 draw, but over the 90 mins France were definitely the better team and could've won by more goals. Germany huffed and puffed, but didn't really get anywhere, although some credit for that must go to the French defence, which I'd say, in terms of solidity and organisation, is on a par with that of Italy, therefore like Portugal remain as one of the favourites. I certainly wouldn't rule out Germany after one game, but like Spain, I'd say the jury's still out...

So, who's impressed me most so far in this tournament? In this order, I'd say:

1) Italy
2) Belgium
3) France
4) Portugal
5) Holland
6) England (the last two are very close, not much between them).

Therefore, in my view, simply based on what I've seen so far, I'd say that the winner will come from one of the above, most likely one of the top 4, and if I had to stick my neck out now and pick one I'd say France, but I hope it's Italy!:cool:

Marco.

struth

16-06-2021, 07:55

if belgium get de bruyne back then they have to have a chance. italy and france look pretty solid

Marco

16-06-2021, 08:02

Oh yeah, I rate Belgium big time, but they always seem to fall in the latter hurdles... Still, the Euros often unearth an underdog, and although none of the teams I've listed could realistically be termed as underdogs, teams such as Belgium, Holland or England could be considered as such in the company of the others, who are genuinely the 'big guns':)

Marco.

system7

16-06-2021, 18:29

Enjoyed the Wales game against Turkey! 2-0.

Super goals. Pleased that Bale and Ramsey have hit such good form. Bale's accuracy with passes is astonishing.

France are now at 7-2 to win.

Now we'll see if my £30 6-1 investment in Italy pays off. Switzerland tonight. Azzurri must be fancied.

Macca

17-06-2021, 06:24

seemed like a good effort from Wales although I was only able to catch the last 20 minutes. Should give them a bit of confidence going into the knockout stage.

anubisgrau

17-06-2021, 07:43

turks were awful, even an average wales looked much better then they really were.

struth

17-06-2021, 07:56

yeah good win from Wales.. keeps them in it. Turkey have been very disappointing.

Marco

17-06-2021, 08:30

I'll comment on this properly later, as we're just about to go out and do some shopping. However, needless to say Wales and Italy were great!!:yay::carrot:

Your selection in the sweep doesn't seem to be too bad, eh Martin?;)

Marco.

Marco

17-06-2021, 15:52

Yeah, first of all Wales were excellent. I disagree that Turkey were awful. In the first game, they made it very hard for Italy in the first half, then ran out of steam once Italy had ran them ragged, and of course were well beaten in the end simply by a much better team. I think that Italy would've done that to quite a few teams in this tournament, not simply Turkey, so you gave to bear that in mind.

Yesterday, Turkey gave Wales a game of it and had some chances to score, although they were again eventually beaten by the better team, and this Wales side are certainly no mugs. I reckon that they could give any team in this tournament a good game. So Turkey have been a little bit disappointing, yes, but not poor. I think that they can beat Switzerland in the last game and regain some pride.

Italy carried on from where they left off against Turkey and simply ran over the top of a hardworking Swiss team, with a soupcon of talent. I particularly like Shakiri (wish Celtic would sign him) and Embolo, who I'd also gladly see at Parkhead, and who tried their best collectively, but were ultimately outclassed by a far superior Italian team, who seem to be getting better with each match.

Gary Neville said last night that he wasn't sure whether Italy would have enough attacking threat or quality to hurt the big teams, and he may have a point, so we'll have to wait and see, but the question I'd put to him is would the big teams he's referring to (I'm presuming he's talking about the likes of France, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, etc) have done any more against the two teams Italy have played so far and thumped 3-0, going on 4 or 5-0?

I doubt it. As they say, you can only beat what's put in front of you, and in my view when any of said 'big teams' are put in front of Italy, later in the tournament, they'll know all about it!;)

Ok, so Denmark vs. Belgium next... I think Belgium could be in for a hard game today, as the Danes will be desperate to make up for their opening defeat to Finland, in a game that should never have been restarted after Eriksen collapsed, and instead played later, once their emotions had calmed. Therefore, the team will want to do well for the player as he recovers in hospital. That would certainly be my team talk, if I were the Danish manager: 'Go out there lads and do it for Christian!'

Therefore, we'll see what happens, but I do expect Belgium to have too much quality for them over the 90 mins, and so in the end will emerge triumphant:cool:

Marco.

Macca

17-06-2021, 15:59

one nil to Belgium is my prediction.

struth

17-06-2021, 16:32

they were talking about a tribute to eriksen during game... would be a nice tribute. sure it'll be a close game.. the dutch play tonight and i expect them to win

Marco

17-06-2021, 18:35

What a great game of football, which panned out pretty much as I predicted!:)

I knew that Denmark would be right up for this one, for reasons stated, and boy were they!:eek: In the first 30 mins they blew away a rather lacklustre Belgian side and could easily been 3 or 4 up, but had to settle for the one goal, which was taken well by Poulsen.

Then at half time I suspect that (a no doubt seething) Martinez shoved rockets up the arses of his players, for the shabby performance in the first half, and they came out all guns blazing, then when their big guns came of the subs bench (Hazard, De Bruyne and Witsel) and showed their class, the goals soon folllowed and that won the game for Belgium.

The plucky, and in no small amount talented Danes, were always still in it though, and had a few chances to equalise, but as predicted Belgium's class eventually paid dividends, especially when Denmark tired after having played the game at such a high tempo from the start, so despite a valiant effort, were unable to take any points.

However, Belgium will have to massively improve defensively if they're to go on to win this tournament, as all too often Denmark exposed the weaknesses in their defence and made them look rather ordinary, which is one of the reasons why I don't think they have quite what it takes to go all the way.

So.... Now onto Netherlands vs. Austria. Austria are a good side, with a tight defence and decent goal threat up front, so I suspect they'll give Holland a difficult game, but again, much like with Belgium, I think Holland will have a bit too much for them, and so should win the match by the odd goal:cool:

Marco.

Macca

17-06-2021, 18:40

well I've not got a scoreline right yet but I'm going to say two-nil to Holland.

rmcin626

17-06-2021, 18:43

Decent game and thought Denmark maybe deserved a draw but Belgium brought on the some more class at half time, De Bruyne changed the game with Hazzard also getting some minutes.

Marco

17-06-2021, 19:21

well I've not got a scoreline right yet but I'm going to say two-nil to Holland.

Lol - see if you can get tomorrow's scoreline right at Wembley;)

Marco.

Marco

17-06-2021, 19:23

Decent game and thought Denmark maybe deserved a draw but Belgium brought on the some more class at half time, De Bruyne changed the game with Hazzard also getting some minutes.

What do you reckon to tomorrow's game, Robin?:)

Marco.

rmcin626

17-06-2021, 19:53

What do you reckon to tomorrow's game, Robin?:)

Marco.

Hopefully the underdogs will get something from the game, we should have won the last meeting, as long we put in a good performance I will be reasonably happy.

Marco

17-06-2021, 21:46

My gut says we'll play well, maybe even score a goal, but ultimately that won't be enough. I think we have to remember that this is our first major tournament for 23 years, so it's still a work in progress. There was way too much bollocks, as usual, hyping up the team beyond realistic expectations before a ball was kicked, then when it went tits up, they were all failures!:doh:

Anyway, I reckon SC will need at least 3 years (beginning from when he first started) to get us to reach our potential, so although we qualified for this tournament (by the skin of our teeth, and a major achievement in itself), it came just a bit too soon in SC's reign for us to to fully shine. We'll be at out best for the World Cup!;)

In other news, as predicted Holland beat Austria (2-0), in a fairly nondescript game, but Holland were by far worthy winners and look as if they're got a few more rounds in them yet!:cool:

Marco.

system7

18-06-2021, 16:46

I could be wrong on this.

But I think England versus Scotland has 1-1 written all over it. :lol:

We both wish to qualify, even if not going much further. Severe doubts about our England Forward line IMO. Harry Kane OK on penalties, but much weaker in open play,

Macca

18-06-2021, 17:07

will be two-nil I think, a goal in each half.

struth

18-06-2021, 17:32

4-0 england:eek:

rmcin626

18-06-2021, 18:11

Could be interesting, now the teams have been announced, hopefully Grant is wrong.

Marco

18-06-2021, 18:12

Lol, no chance, Granty... I'm expecting a good performance from Scotland, regardless of the result.

However, I think the best Scotland can hope for us is a draw, which I believe is what'll happen. Scotland will defo be pumped up for this, and with Tierney back and starting, plus Gilmour and Adams, this will be a very different Scotland team to the one who played against the Czechs...:trust:

So I see a 1-1 or 2-2 draw, and then we'll beat Croatia (who the Czechs made look very ordinary today) in the last game and qualify!:D

Marco.

Pigmy Pony

18-06-2021, 18:58

My prediction is that by half time Marco will still be trying to shoe horn himself into the Scotland kit that fit perfectly last time they played England in a major tournament :doh:

Filterlab

18-06-2021, 18:59

4-0 england:eek:

:D

Marco

18-06-2021, 19:01

:lolsign:

The good thing is I've also got Wales and Italy to support, which are, erm, arguably a litte better:eyebrows::eyebrows:

Marco.

Filterlab

18-06-2021, 19:54

Dull dull dull dull dull.

That's the most boring first half I've ever seen.

Marco

18-06-2021, 20:52

Well, I thought it'd be a draw, but I never thought 0-0!:eek:

Great performance though from Scotland, who with a bit more luck and quality of finishing [more on that in a mo] could've beaten a strangely subdued and lacklustre England side. More comment, later!:cool:

Marco.

Macca

18-06-2021, 21:02

entertaining game. Not good enough from England though.

rmcin626

18-06-2021, 21:11

Great performance from Scotland, after a brave team selection.

anubisgrau

18-06-2021, 21:32

after watching scotland in belgrade i've though they were severely handicaped for good football
however this was a tremendous performance, shame they didn't score
kill me if i have a clue what southgate is doing, especially with the subs

Marco

18-06-2021, 21:59

after watching scotland in belgrade i've though they were severely handicaped for good football

Well, we put you lot out to get to this tournament!:ner:

;)

Marco.

system7

18-06-2021, 22:05

Hopeless game by England tonight!

Not good enough in attack. I'd rather have Welsh Aaron Ramsey up front than Harry Kane and Raheem Sterling.

Oh well. I am on Italy. :)

Marco

18-06-2021, 22:07

What was that you said then about Scotland having "zero chance" against England - REMEMBER??:ner:;)

Allow me to remind you [from 14th]:

My Honest opinion is the Scots have Zero-chance against England. :lol:

I think that I saw something rather different tonight at Wembley..

Marco.

Ali Tait

19-06-2021, 05:32

There are some people whom I’m very much looking forward to talking to today. They were pretty vocal pre match last night. Funnily, they were a bit quieter afterwards.:D

Macca

19-06-2021, 06:04

we should have had a penalty when Sterling was brought down, about 79th minute.

struth

19-06-2021, 06:36

well, i was close:lol:

rmcin626

19-06-2021, 08:20

I thought England deserved to hang on for the draw.

Marco

19-06-2021, 08:55

we should have had a penalty when Sterling was brought down, about 79th minute.

Debatable, but there wasn't enough in it for VAR even to be checked, so that tell's it own story. No pen for me:)

Marco.

Marco

19-06-2021, 08:56

well, i was close:lol:

Haha, but I'm presuming you weren't serious about that prediction?:D

Marco.

struth

19-06-2021, 08:59

Haha, but I'm presuming you weren't serious about that prediction?:D

Marco.

well thought it might get a reaction;)

Marco

19-06-2021, 08:59

I thought England deserved to hang on for the draw.

Haha - a good way of putting it! We were hanging on though, with that stramash at the end in our penalty box!:eek:

Anyway, I'll writing up a full summary of the match and making some predictions about where I think both England and Scotland will go from here after breakfast:cool:

Marco.

Marco

19-06-2021, 09:03

There are some people whom I’m very much looking forward to talking to today. They were pretty vocal pre match last night. Funnily, they were a bit quieter afterwards.:D

Ha - me too, mate! Some of the English TV pundits, who were predicting a Scotland trouncing [hello Rio Ferdinand:wave::D] will have egg on their faces this morning, and the look on Ian Wright's coupon last night said it all!!:lol:

Well done too, Graeme Souness for sticking up for his country [it wasn't just a battling performance that got us the point] and putting everyone else in their place:clap:

Marco.

Macca

19-06-2021, 09:04

Debatable, but there wasn't enough in it for VAR even to be checked, so that tell's it own story. No pen for me:)

Marco.

if it had been checked I'm confident a penalty would have been awarded. He was tripped, plain as day. Linesman should have seen it.

On the whole though the result reflected the performance of both teams, I fine with Scotland beating the Croats and going through to the knockout with England. Rather have one of the Home Nations win the tournament than any of the foreign teams, even if it isn't England.

rmcin626

19-06-2021, 09:09

THe Scottish midfield dominated the game, McGregor probably had his best game in the last year, what was also interesting was that Scotland played those with the jersey numbers 1 to 10 plus Billy Gilmour, which was probably Steve Clarke’s plan all along. Hopefully both teams will win on Tuesday and progress.

Marco

19-06-2021, 10:17

if it had been checked I'm confident a penalty would have been awarded. He was tripped, plain as day. Linesman should have seen it.

It wasn't deemed necessary though, as it was obvious enough to the ref that it wasn't a pen, which is my point. Even the (English) refereeing expert, who was part of the commentary team, didn't think it was a penalty.

Robertson accidentally stood on Sterling's toe, when legitimately making a tackle, which with modern football boots (that are soft and like big slippers), the studs would've hurt, so he went down like a sack of spuds, squealing to try and win a pen! :exactly:

Perhaps if he'd eased off on the histrionics [as refs take a dim view of simulation], the outcome would've been different;)

Marco.

Macca

19-06-2021, 10:20

It wasn't deemed necessary though, as it was obvious enough to the ref that it wasn't, which is my point. Even the (English) refereeing expert, who was part of the commentary team, didn't think it was a penalty.

Robertson accidentally stood on Sterling's toe, when legitimately making a tackle, which with modern football boots (that are soft and like big slippers), the studs would've hurt, so he went down like a sack of spuds, squealing to try and win a pen! :exactly:

Maybe if he'd eased off on the histrionics [as refs take a dim view of simulation], the outcome would've been different;)

Marco.

if you're running fast and someone stands on your foot like that then you're going down, no question. It wasn't a dive. The TV camera had a perfect view of it. The ref was a distance away and could only see the backs of the players. The commentators all agreed that he was 'slightly tripped.' Balls. You can't be 'slightly tripped'. It was a foul.

We'll have to agree to disagree :)

Macca

19-06-2021, 10:22

we probably would have missed the penalty anyways.

Marco

19-06-2021, 10:33

if you're running fast and someone stands on your foot like that then you're going down, no question. It wasn't a dive. The TV camera had a perfect view of it. The ref was a distance away and could only see the backs of the players. The commentators all agreed that he was 'slightly tripped.' Balls. You can't be 'slightly tripped'. It was a foul.

We'll have to agree to disagree :)

Indeed. I fully get where you're coming from, however for me he tried too much to make it LOOK like a foul, even if it was one, and that's why it wasn't given.

Marco.

Marco

19-06-2021, 10:33

we probably would have missed the penalty anyways.

No, it wasn't Germany, so you'd have scored!:D

Marco.

Pigmy Pony

19-06-2021, 11:42

Macca

19-06-2021, 11:46

make me do maths would you?

I think you need to score at least once to be able to make it out of the group stage. Otherwise you'd fail on goal difference. I don't know what they do if all games in a group are no-score draws.

Marco

19-06-2021, 11:53

Not particularly arsed about football as a rule, but I do have a question: Just how far can a team potentially progress in this tournament without scoring a single goal? I know that penalty shootouts will come into it at some point.

If you're referring to Scotland, nowhere, as they *must* beat Croatia in the last game to have any chance of progression, so they have to score during normal or any added injury time. There's no extra time or pens in the group stages. Games must be settled over 90mins [plus injury/stoppage time, if applicable].

However, outwith of that, in the group stages, theoretically (although unlikely) three 0-0 draws (and therefore 3 points) could, in unique circumstances, see you through to the knockout stages. Very unlikely though as the next best-placed team would almost certainly beat you to it on goal difference.

However, from there (if such a miracle should happen), the skies the limit, if you can negotiate the knockout stages, drawing 0-0 after 90 mins and extra time, then win on pens, all the way to the final, and win that by the same method.

However, the odds of winning the Lottery are probably higher!;)

Marco.

Marco

19-06-2021, 11:55

I think you need to score at least once to be able to make it out of the group stage. Otherwise you'd fail on goal difference. I don't know what they do if all games in a group are no-score draws.

Yes, that's more than likely true, but not a given. In certain unique circumstances, depending on results elsewhere, 3 points, accrued via three 0-0 draws, could be enough to progress in the competition, but it would take a miracle!

Marco.

Pigmy Pony

19-06-2021, 11:58

If you're referring to Scotland, nowhere, as they *must* beat Croatia in the last game to have any chance of progression, so they have to score. However, outwith of that, in the group stages, theoretically (although unlikely) three 0-0 draws (and therefore 3 points) could, in some groups see you through to the knockout stages.

And from there, the skies the limit, if you can go through the knockout stages, drawing 0-0 after 90 mins and extra time, then win on pens, all the way to the final, and win that by the same method.

However, the odds of winning the Lottery are probably higher!;)

Marco.

No I'm not referring to Scotland, although it was them that put the idea in my head. Anyway, I wish them well and I'd like to see England v Scotland final. Though that too is probably lottery-win likely.

So thanks for the info, you can all go back to grown-up footy talk now :)

Macca

19-06-2021, 12:04

Yes, that's more than likely true, but not a given. In certain circumstances, depending on results elsewhere, 3 points, accrued via three 0-0 draws could be enough to progress.

Marco.

How is that resolved if that happens though? Everyone has the same points and same goal difference. What decides it?

Marco

19-06-2021, 12:09

In that extremely unlikely event, probably the toss of a coin!:D Or more likely they'd be judged on their performances during qualification.

The main point though is that [given results elsewhere, which would be the defining factor] it's possible to progress to the knockout stages with 3 points, but almost impossible if that has been achieved with three goalless draws.

Marco.

anubisgrau

19-06-2021, 12:22

it would be a miracle for scotland to even draw against croatia and that would not be enough to progress

mind that european teams are much less impressed with scotland than england, as we saw from the czechs

croatia has a plenty of inside team problems but in terms of football they are in completely another class and need to have a really bad day to lose.

Marco

19-06-2021, 12:28

Rather anti-Scotland, aren't you Gordan?

I should point out that Croatia have never beaten Scotland, see here: https://www.11v11.com/teams/scotland/tab/opposingTeams/opposition/Croatia/ So far, won 3 drawn 2.

Now whether that will have any bearing on Tuesday's game is moot, but they certainly have a chance, especially as they're at home:)

Marco.

anubisgrau

19-06-2021, 12:41

not anti-scotland, on contrary

just realistic

i was impressed with yesterday performance as i wrote earlier but i reckon this was very much down to a historical local folklore scotland vs england

frankly i don't find a ground for this wave of optimism, scotland was an easy task for czechs and could be the same for croatia

i would be certainly happier to see scotland passing on than croatia so let's hope i'm wrong

struth

19-06-2021, 12:55

Scotland's record v Croatia is very good. first 3 were draws and last 2 were wins if memory serves. I would fancy them to win again.

mikeyb

19-06-2021, 13:04

Macca

19-06-2021, 13:09

Both Ally Mccoist and Lee Dixon said no penalty even after the replay so the referee must have been right [emoji6][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

.

They have to be careful what they say though, with twenty thousand Scotsmen roaming London.

It's not widely known but the '45 rebellion was the result of a poor refereeing decision.

anubisgrau

19-06-2021, 13:15

well, sterling wouldn't deserve a penalty with me even with a broken leg

fckn diving c*nt.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1406124008941264896

Marco

19-06-2021, 13:30

not anti-scotland, on contrary

just realistic

How is it being realistic though, when as stated the stats show that Scotland's record so far against Croatia is good, indeed they haven't lost, so I'm not sure what you're basing your view on.

Yes, Croatia have better players in most positions, and a far better record in finals of competitions, but that's been the case up until now and hasn't stopped Scotland coming out on top more often than not when both teams meet...

i was impressed with yesterday performance as i wrote earlier but i reckon this was very much down to a historical local folklore scotland vs england

Yes I think that was a factor, as was some of the younger English boys, who hadn't played in a Scotland vs. England game before, letting the occasion get to them. In that respect, England are far better than last night's game showed.

frankly i don't find a ground for this wave of optimism, scotland was an easy task for czechs and could be the same for croatia

There's no 'wave of optimism', as far as I can see. How could there be with Scotland only having one point out of a possible six, and facing elimination from the tournament if they don't win.

However, you still have to be positive and believe you can win, and so if you consider that playing at home, and the previous good record against Croatia counting for something, then I guess that acts as grounds for optimism:)

Marco.

mikeyb

19-06-2021, 13:32

When you watch that video there's no way the ref would have given that, not even if he was English.

anubisgrau

19-06-2021, 13:36

Marco

19-06-2021, 13:36

Both Ally Mccoist and Lee Dixon said no penalty even after the replay so the referee must have been right [emoji6][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

Anyway England gonna be humped when they meet a decent team [emoji2957]

Scotland were much the better side on the night, I felt they were just missing a decent right wing.

More realistically a top-notch striker, capable of scoring at this level. *THAT* has undoubtedly been our downfall so far, both against the Czechs, where we had 19 attempts on goal, the most ever for us at the finals of any major competition, and last night against England.

As I've said before, ask yourself what how much difference a fit and focused Leigh Griffiths would've made? Especially last night, as last time the teams met he was singlehandedly responsible for nearly beating England!

Marco.

Marco

19-06-2021, 13:37

@marco

serbia still have a positive record vs scotland (1 win, 2 draws) and scotland progressed in belgrade

stats truly don't mean anything on such a small numbers, at least for me. but who am i to object fans believe anything.

Yes, but we're talking about Croatia, not Serbia. The way you're talking, Scotland have no chance, and that notion simply doesn't stack up.

Marco.

anubisgrau

19-06-2021, 13:41

no i said croatia needs a bad day to lose. but it can happen, of course.

Marco

19-06-2021, 13:45

I think you're being unfairly harsh on Scotland. Did Croatia have a 'bad day' on the last 5 occasions that the teams have met, and have failed to win?;)

Marco.

struth

19-06-2021, 13:45

nisbet may play; patterson should too, but probably wont..

struth

19-06-2021, 13:48

hungary 1 up.

Marco

19-06-2021, 13:55

nisbet may play; patterson should too, but probably wont..

I'd start with the same team that faced England, and make those types of substitutions, if or when they're necessary. TBH, Dykes looks more out of his depth at this level than Adams, but we need his height and physicality to help make space for others.

Marco.

Macca

19-06-2021, 14:03

When you watch that video there's no way the ref would have given that, not even if he was English.

the camera behind the touchline shows it in close-up. They showed it from that angle in the replay during the game. There's no question about it, it was a foul.

Marco

19-06-2021, 14:06

Yes there was a question about it, which is why it wasn't given!:ner:;)

Marco.

rmcin626

19-06-2021, 14:13

Anything can happen in football, writing off Scotland just shows a lack of football knowledge, ask France how things are going just now.

anubisgrau

19-06-2021, 15:00

what a massive c*nt is michael oliver.

Filterlab

19-06-2021, 15:00

Anyway England gonna be humped when they meet a decent team.

There is absolutely no doubt about that.

struth

19-06-2021, 15:03

france got a draw... that will likely do them.

Marco

19-06-2021, 15:21

Anyway... In terms of Scotland's chances going forward, I said earlier that if we were to progress to the knockout stages it would be done the HARD way, as usual, which is why unlike most, I didn't buy into the notion of us beating the Czechs in the first game, and then all would be well from there, as that would've been WAY too straightforward!

Therefore, my prediction for us after the defeat to the Czechs was that any route through to the next round would be via getting a point against England, then beating Croatia in the last game, which so far I've got half right. However, the spectre of 'glorious defeat' still hangs ominously over Hampden, as has happened so often before to Scotland, so there's every chance that the game could end in a draw or worse.

In that respect, I'll commit to a prediction nearer the time. However, regardless of the outcome of that match, as long as we play well and hold our own against Croatia, progress will have been made in this campaign, because unlike in other tournaments where we've gone out in the group stages (if that happens), this time we'll not have been disgraced in any of the matches, and instead done our nation proud:)

As I said, IMO Steve Clarke is at the start of a 3-year journey, building a team good enough to compete properly at this level, so in that respect these Euros may have come a bit too early for Scotland, but we'll see! For me though, he's the best man for the job and arguably the best manager we've had for years.

England? Impressive against Croatia, who are no mugs, and hugely disappointing last night against us, and arguably lucky to get a point. However, as I said, and as Gordan also mentioned, last night's game was unique, as is that kind of derby, and I think it got the better of some of the younger English players, who'd never played in one before.

However, that doesn't include Harry Kane, who looked a shadow of himself last night and so far in this tournament, and certainly the player who lit up the last World Cup. And that's a major problem for England, as is IMO their midfield, which is painfully short of creativity. Plus 'wonder boy' Grealish, for the time he was on last night, didn't live up to the hype. That may change though against the Czechs, and it'll need to, as that won't be an easy game for England.

The good thing, from an English point of view, is that the goalkeeper and defence looks solid, so that always gives you a chance, coupled with real talents further forward, such as Sterling, Mount and Foden, all three of whom I really rate, and who between them are liable to get you a goal. In that respect, therefore, I'd expect England to beat the Czechs and progress to the knockout stages, hopefully along with Scotland!:cool:

Marco.

Marco

19-06-2021, 15:30

france got a draw... that will likely do them.

Yeah, Hungary can be a handful on their own patch. Other big teams will also drop unexpected points, but France still had the resilience not to get beaten and lose the game, which augurs well for their chances of winning the competition.

The games tonight will be interesting, especially Portugal vs. Germany - can Germany kick start their campaign? Or will Portugal (and Ronaldo, who's capable of winning games on his own) carry on from their opening win and continue to show themselves as genuine contenders to lift the trophy?

And.... Will Spain WAKE THE FUCK UP, and DO something exciting against Poland? I'm not sure...

Marco.

Marco

19-06-2021, 16:33

Titter ye yes... https://twitter.com/i/status/1406211673074159618

Still confident, big man?:eyebrows::eyebrows:

Marco.

struth

19-06-2021, 16:36

ronaldo again... not a one man team but close....

Marco

19-06-2021, 16:56

There is absolutely no doubt about that.

Reluctantly, I disagree:)

(Currently) their defence is too good for them to be humped by anyone. They might lose a game, but humped, no..

Marco.

Marco

19-06-2021, 16:56

ronaldo again... not a one man team but close....

...until they ever so kindly gifted Germany two own goals!

Marco.

struth

19-06-2021, 17:29

yeah, 4-2 germany. about 20 mins left.

Marco

19-06-2021, 17:57

...and so it ends. Had a feeling the Germans would bounce back, as they'd have been annoyed losing to France. Best game of the tournament so far and another proper game of football!

Rarely do Germany have bad tournaments. It'd expect them to kick on from here now. Portugal are certainly better than that results shows, but they don't look defensively solid enough to win the competition again.

Anyway, princess is happy, as half of her family are German/Croatian:)

Marco.

chris@panteg

20-06-2021, 07:42

Can the mighty Wales get anything out of today's game with the Azzuri ? possibly ? But this is an excellent Italian side and I think they will go on and win the Euro's . Big call I know but my gut feeling.
Was impressed with Lewandoski last night ,really showed great leadership like Bale did for Wales.

Marco

20-06-2021, 07:57

Yup, but yet another poor show from Spain, who for me certainly won't be this year's winners!

As for Italy vs. Wales, I'll have slightly divided loyalties in this one, so I'd happily take a draw, which I think Wales are capable of (although it'll be hard in the 33C heat today in Rome), and which would ensure that both teams progress to the knockout stages:cool:

Marco.

Macca

20-06-2021, 09:05

Wales will lose to Italy, I'll be amazed if they can even manage a draw. It just isn't going to happen.

I thought Spain looked good, confident on the ball, quick and accurate passing and crossing. The Poles did well to hold them.

Marco

20-06-2021, 09:58

Yes, but they've only got 2 points from two games, so they really need to win their last one to go through, and they're defo not at the same level as Italy, Belgium, Germany, France or Holland, one of which I'm confident will be the eventual winners:)

As for Wales, well we'll see... Remember that Italy are already through to the round of 16, so may field a weakened team and try some different players, plus they won't want to risk any injuries, so won't be going 'gung ho'.

I honestly don't think there'll be a lot in the game and wouldn't be surprised if it were a draw, as I think Wales will be up for it more, however I suspect that any success they have will mostly be achieved in the first half, before Italy (and the heat) tire them out. Anyway, I've been reasonably accurate so far in my predictions, so we'll see how it goes:cool:

Marco.

Macca

20-06-2021, 10:09

As for Wales, well we'll see... Remember that Italy are already through to the round of 16, so may field a weakened team and try some different players, plus they won't want to risk any injuries, so won't be going 'gung ho'.

.

Fair point, maybe there is some hope.

Marco

20-06-2021, 10:29

Lol - hey, it's just a theory. We'll see whether it pans out or not in reality!:D

One thing's for sure, Wales will have to pace themselves, and try and conserve energy for the latter stages of the game, where Italy may push for the winner (or more goals) if they want or need to, as it's going to be hard going out on that pitch in 33C.

Marco.

struth

20-06-2021, 12:37

wales should qualify if they limit it to a one goal loss i would think.

Marco

20-06-2021, 15:46

As I thought, 8 changes for Italy... Still not a bad team though, lol! Italy will want to win this game, in order to win the group, but I still think Wales can get a point, and will stick my neck out further and say that if there is a winner, it'll be Wales!:eek:

However, one thing I can *guarantee* is that this will be Italy's hardest game yet, as Wales are a MUCH better team than either Turkey or Switzerland, so come on Wales:sheep::sheep:

..and that's the ONLY time during this tournament I'll be cheering for any team against Italy!

Marco.

struth

20-06-2021, 15:49

have a strong feeling there will be little between sides.. a 0-0 draw wouldnt surprise me

Marco

20-06-2021, 15:53

No, I think there'll be goals, mate.

One thing's for sure, the princess will go BONKERS if they win!:yay::bum::booty::D

She looks quite good in a Wales top, too;)

Marco.

struth

20-06-2021, 15:57

No, I think there'll be goals, mate.

One thing's for sure, the princess will go BONKERS if they win!:yay::bum::booty::D

She looks quite good in a Wales top, too;)

Marco.

lol.. sure she would do the bouncy, bouncy for you:eek: good luck

struth

20-06-2021, 16:59

wales struggling... even second string italy are just too good.. dont think the false 9 is helping

struth

20-06-2021, 17:49

looking good for wales.. 2nd place is a great result...:)

Marco

20-06-2021, 18:12

Yup, Wales through to the last 16, along with Italy, the latter having won all of their games, which was the perfect result for me!:yay::yay::carrot:

I knew it would be tight, although thought Wales could've snatched a point, and if Bale had his shooting boots on, instead of missing a great chance in the second half, they may have got the draw (ditto Ramsey who had a great chance), or indeed if they'd managed to keep 11 men on the park! However, their sending off whilst within the letters of the rules, was harsh, but they dug in and managed to keep Italy at bay (just)!

Italy, however, showed their class, and even with their 'reserve side', were just too good for Wales, and TBH, spent most of the second half in third gear. It's frightening how good they are at the moment, but no doubt they'll have sterner tests to come. My only worry is that I hope they haven't peaked too soon, as often in a marathon, which the finals of any big competition are, you sometimes need a bit more of a 'slow burn'...

However, that's 30 games unbeaten now for Italy, which is a new record, and I hope they can keep it going. One thing's for sure, on this form, it'll take a very good team to stop them!:cool:

Marco.

rmcin626

20-06-2021, 18:13

Well done to Wales, played most of the second half with 10 men. Italy looking very good .

system7

20-06-2021, 18:17

Lor, Italy 1 Wales 0 aged me 10 years! :eek:

Pleased that slightly knocked-up Ramsey started. Otherwise I just wouldn't have given Wales a chance. All about goal difference.

How they hung on with 10 men for 0-1 defeats me. Though Ramsey missed a sitter. :lol:

Still got £30 on the Azzurri (Italy) at 6-1. 30 games without defeat is incredible. THAT is unstoppable momentum, I hope.

system7

20-06-2021, 18:50

While we recover from the splendid Wales game, Radio 5 Live continues to amuse us with what Private Eye Magazine calls Colemanballs.

Where Sports commentators talk rubbish! :lol:

Produced a sound clip which announced that Scotland's next opponents, Croatia , and particularly Luka Modric, are playing in Light Black.

Give me strength. There is no such thing as light Black. It's either Black or it isn't! Otherwise it is Grey. :scratch:

chris@panteg

20-06-2021, 22:04

What a chance Bale had and he blew it , never mind move on. Italy still look like the probable winners to me .

Will Belgium and the Netherlands put out a rotated team I wonder ? both on six points .

anubisgrau

21-06-2021, 08:49

looking good for wales.. 2nd place is a great result...:)

only that italy played with the second team and at half pace, compared to their game vs swiss which actually decided who is passing the group.

not very sporty but that's what it is.

Marco

21-06-2021, 09:00

What a chance Bale had and he blew it , never mind move on. Italy still look like the probable winners to me .

Will Belgium and the Netherlands put out a rotated team I wonder ? both on six points .

Ramsey too, Chris, that was a great chance, but Bale's was better, as if he'd connected with the ball properly he'd have scored and likely secured the draw I'd predicted! Anyway, thank goodness in the end it didn't matter.

I think Wales have got a good chance in the next round too, apparently against the runner up of Group B, which is likely to either be Denmark, Russia or Finland, and I'd fancy them against any of those teams, with Denmark I think possibly being the toughest opponents.

I'm sure that both Belgium and Holland will field 'reserve teams', trying out some players in their squads that haven't featured so far. It's the sensible thing to do, in order to protect your best players from injury.

Group F, featuring many of the big guns, where no-one's qualified outright yet, is of most interest to me now.

In that respect, if Germany can kick on from their superb 4-2 win against Portugal and beat Hungary, who took a well-earned point from France, for me they'll be right up there again among the favourites, and then of course there's the potentially mouth-watering clash between France and Portugal - all of those matches on Wednesday.

No doubt the results in that group will go some way to deciding who eventually wins the tournament!:cool:

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 09:06

only that italy played with the second team and at half pace, compared to their game vs swiss which actually decided who is passing the group.

not very sporty but that's what it is.

How's it not sporting? It's both common sense and common practice in these tournaments. What did you expect Italy to do, play with a full strength team and potentially risk injury to some of their key players? No chance.

That's the well-earned privilege winning your first two games, and guaranteeing qualification for the next round, gives you: the ability to rest key players in the final game - all perfectly normal:)

Marco.

Lawrence001

21-06-2021, 09:20

How's it not sporting? It's both common sense and common practice in these tournaments. What did you expect Italy to do, play with a full strength team and potentially risk injury to some of their key players? No chance.

That's the well-earned privilege winning your first two games, and guaranteeing qualification for the next round, gives you: the ability to rest key players in the final game - all perfectly normal:)

Marco.I think not sporting in the tradition old fashioned sense, before football became all about money and the sports scientists and other experts came in and looked at all the myriad ways of maximising the probability of winning rather than playing your best and fairly in each match.

It's similar to wishing companies like Tannoy and Quad would stick to their traditional values, build quality and support instead of doing what maximises the bottom line in the shorter run. Which I think I've seen you comment on before [emoji38]

Marco

21-06-2021, 09:26

struth

21-06-2021, 09:27

Think its just looking at the bigger picture. Players playing lots of games one after another(especially after a full seasons play) is just foolish. Countries have a duty of care of players and the players clubs, and also they want to have their best team available for the most important games.

Marco

21-06-2021, 09:31

struth

21-06-2021, 10:59

young billy gilmour is out of the croatia game with covid 19...

Marco

21-06-2021, 11:25

That's just typical, in terms of luck, for Scotland:doh:

When you say that, do you mean he's got the virus or just shielding because he's been in contact with someone else who has it?

Marco.

struth

21-06-2021, 11:28

That's just typical, in terms of luck, for Scotland:doh:

When you say that, do you mean he's got the virus or just shielding because he's been in contact with someone else who has it?

Marco.

he is positive apparently. no-one else affected

rmcin626

21-06-2021, 12:15

young billy gilmour is out of the croatia game with covid 19...

Yeah not great news but an opportunity for someone else to show what they are made of.

Marco

21-06-2021, 12:17

he is positive apparently. no-one else affected

Bugger... Not liking that omen:(

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 12:18

Yeah not great news but an opportunity for someone else to show what they are made of.

Patterson?:)

Marco.

struth

21-06-2021, 13:07

Patterson?:)

Marco.

he is a full back so not likely.

anubisgrau

21-06-2021, 13:42

How's it not sporting? It's both common sense and common practice in these tournaments. What did you expect Italy to do, play with a full strength team and potentially risk injury to some of their key players? No chance.

That's the well-earned privilege winning your first two games, and guaranteeing qualification for the next round, gives you: the ability to rest key players in the final game - all perfectly normal:)

Marco.

You would have 101% different opinion if the team you support (Wales) would have been stung

That said, I don't mind about Swiss (they gonna pass 99% anyway), just saying this attitude is not sport, but many other things aren't either. Italians could keep their players on every game given how superior they are.

Marco

21-06-2021, 14:03

You would have 101% different opinion if the team you support (Wales) would have been stung

Nope, I'd understand, as it's just part and parcel of football.

That said, I don't mind about Swiss (they gonna pass 99% anyway), just saying this attitude is not sport, but many other things aren't either. Italians could keep their players on every game given how superior they are.

Well, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree:)

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 14:04

he is a full back so not likely.

Yes, so he is. Shows you how much attention I pay to Rangers players!:D;)

I do rate him, though.

Marco.

Opti-cal

21-06-2021, 14:21

he is positive apparently. no-one else affected

What about the 3 England players he had in his pocket . . . . surely they need to isolate now . . .

Marco

21-06-2021, 14:37

Ha - good point!:D

Better let O'Donnell know that too, as Harry Kane might still be buried somewhere inside his:eyebrows:

Marco.

Opti-cal

21-06-2021, 14:54

Yes the job was 'done' by the team to be fair.

England were far too concerned with trying to stick to a 'Southgate plan' rather than actively adapting their game to counter what the Scot's were doing, which they clearly weren't prepared for (although they should have been!).

Feel for Harry a bit (as an Englishman and Spurs fan), he IS world class as I've watched him for years, the stats back it up but he isn't getting much service and has to come deep looking for the ball, where the Scot's shut us down more often than not.

Don't think dropping him is the answer yet as no one else is going to do much better with the same service in my opinion. Admittedly he doesn't quite look himself though.

If he's not firing again Tomorrow, maybe give Calvert-Lewin a chance as his athleticism and aerial prowess and getting knock down's might be something a bit different assuming there are willing runners from midfield.

Marco

21-06-2021, 15:43

I salute you Chris for being openminded and realistic enough to admit how shocking England were on the night, playing well below par, and indeed their true capabilities.

Feel for Harry a bit (as an Englishman and Spurs fan), he IS world class as I've watched him for years, the stats back it up but he isn't getting much service and has to come deep looking for the ball, where the Scot's shut us down more often than not.

Firstly. let me say that I rate Kane very highly indeed and consider him as top striker, and let's say is what I'd call 'elite international class'. However, 'world class' for me is a term that's bandied about far too easily these days, and should be reserved solely for the creme de la creme, who've graced this planet with their outstanding footballing ability.

For me, only Ronaldo [who's head and shoulders above everyone else], Mbappe, Modric, De Bruyne, Bale, Neuer and Chiellini are genuine 'world class' players represented at this tournament, and deserved of that title.

Add in the likes of Messi and Neymar, from outside of Europe, and for me those are the only players currently playing who deserve that title, or indeed genuine greats from the past, such as Gascoigne, Beckham, Pirlo, Beckenbauer, Dalglish, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Van Basten, Gullit, Maradona, Platini, Pele, Best (and many others).

Would you really put Kane in that kind of company? Not for me. 'Elite international class', yes, along with a few more of that ilk from these Euros, and one of the best players in Europe, but for me not genuine world class:)

We've got one player who is heading towards becoming world class, if he gets the right big move next, as he's outgrown Arsenal, and that's Kieran Tierney. However, I don't think there are any genuine world class players in the current England squad, although you've certainly got many more 'elite international class' players than we have! The majority of your squad consists of such.

Don't think dropping him is the answer yet as no one else is going to do much better with the same service in my opinion. Admittedly he doesn't quite look himself though.

I agree with both points. I certainly wouldn't drop him either, as he's always liable to get you a goal out of nothing, but he is looking rather jaded.

If he's not firing again Tomorrow, maybe give Calvert-Lewin a chance as his athleticism and aerial prowess and getting knock down's might be something a bit different assuming there are willing runners from midfield.

Yes, that's a good shout. Also, what's happened to Vardy? Is he in the squad? Sorry, I've not followed the England team closely enough, but he's certainly another proven scorer and has had a superb season with Leicester.

Marco.

Lawrence001

21-06-2021, 16:08

struth

21-06-2021, 16:14

it certainly wont hurt their careers and hence their earnability.. but it gives them something few ever get. godlike status with their countrymen; you cant buy that. Also many have had a great desire to play and win at a big international or their countries for all their waking lives.
My grandson plays for a pro side at a youth age and all he thinks about is footy and doing similar:D

Marco

21-06-2021, 16:20

Would you say that Harry Kane was *genuinely* world class, Grant, in the way I've outlined? Just interested in your opinion:)

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 16:27

Fair point but I do think there's a money aspect to it, after all if you can win the Euros, your career as a club manager (and player) is pretty guaranteed Not that most of the managers and players aren't doing pretty well already I suspect.

No worries, and yes I agree with that. However, as I said, I can guarantee you that money wasn't remotely in Mancini's head when he picked last night's Italian team:)

Marco.

struth

21-06-2021, 16:30

Would you say that Harry Kane was *genuinely* world class, Grant, in the way I've outlined?:)

Marco.

eh, in todays market, probably would get in a world squad, so yes. whether he would play is another matter tho. plus he is a bit injury prone which wont help but there is no doubt his scoring feats over the years as a running striker is as good as anyone else currently playing. he still has a chance of beating shearers 260 goals total, and if he moves to city, then expect that
he wouldnt get into a best alltime tho.

Marco

21-06-2021, 16:41

Fair enough, I buy your argument. It's just that IMO he's not in Ronaldo's league, who for me *is* genuine world class, and could deservedly be mentioned in the same breath as Maradona or Pele. Kane isn't in that league.

Marco.

Opti-cal

21-06-2021, 16:51

I salute you Chris for being openminded and realistic enough to admit how shocking England were on the night, playing well below par, and indeed their true capabilities.

Firstly. let me say that I rate Kane very highly indeed and consider him as top striker, and let's say is what I'd call 'elite international class'. However, 'world class' for me is a term that's bandied about far too easily these days, and should be reserved solely for the creme de la creme, who've graced this planet with their outstanding footballing ability.

For me, only Ronaldo [who's head and shoulders above everyone else], Mbappe, De Bruyne, Bale, Neuer and Chiellini are genuine 'world class' players represented at this tournament, and deserved of that title. Add in the likes of Messi and Neymar, from outside of Europe, and for me those are the only players currently playing who deserve that title, or indeed genuine greats from the past, such as Gascoigne, Pirlo, Beckenbauer, Dalglish, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Van Basten, Gullit, Maradona, Platini, Pele, Best (and many others).

Would you really put Kane in that kind of company? Not for me. 'Elite international class', yes, along with a few more of that ilk from these Euros, and one of the best players in Europe, but for me not genuine world class:)

We've got one player who is heading towards becoming world class, if he gets the right big move next, as he's outgrown Arsenal, and that's Kieran Tierney. However, I don't think there are any genuine world class players in the current England squad, although you've certainly got many more 'elite international class' players than we have! The majority of your squad consists of such.

I agree with both points. I certainly wouldn't drop him either, as he's always liable to get you a goal out of nothing, but he is looking rather jaded.

Yes, that's a good shout. Also, what's happened to Vardy? Is he in the squad? Sorry, I've not followed the England team closely enough, but he's certainly another proven scorer and has had a superb season with Leicester.

Marco.

Ah, okay I see what you're saying there.

I think our terms are slightly crossed then as perhaps my definition of "World class" is the top of what is around at the moment. Which I think for strikers at least Kane firmly is in. Albeit not quite at the top of his game at the moment. I remember a point a few seasons ago when he was dragging us to results, not least with self-made goals against Arsenal and Chelsea.

In your terminology then no not quite at that supreme elite level yet, but, if he were to continue his form of the past 5 years or so and indeed win something with England (haha), he could elevate himself to that bracket yet.

Maybe the impending move to city will help him 'become' more elite and fulfil the those final requirements to be considered up there with the footballing gods you have mentioned there.

To add to your list I would also put my favorite of all time Ronaldinho, as was just pure joy on a football pitch and that for me is a huge element as to why I will always refer people to clips of him just having great fun, yet ruling opponents on a football pitch.

Jamie Vardy - such a shame he retired from England duty when he did but at the time he was third or lower in the pecking order. There were rumours of a return but he was getting tired of travelling with the squad to play back-up to Kane all the time.

For me this is still sacrilege though as in my opinion no matter how 'tedious' or disappointing a tour away with little game time may be, it's your country and the whole reason you set out to play football in the first place. Okay, he may have a young family and want to spend time at home watching them grow up etc, I do get that, but still, if the call came I'd be there no matter the circumstances.

More of a shame because he certainly offers something different going forward and even though he is slowing a tad now, has/had electric pace and is an excellent finisher. Defenses are scared stiff and just do not know what to do against pace. In the words of Alan Hansen "Ye cannot defent against paayce". A Rolls Royce defender if ever there was one . . . .

rmcin626

21-06-2021, 16:56

Would you say that Harry Kane was *genuinely* world class, Grant, in the way I've outlined? Just interested in your opinion:)

Marco.

I’ll throw in my tuppence worth, currently and for the last 10 years at least, Messi and Ronaldo are on a completely different level from any other goal scorers. Of the others, Lewandowski is the best of the rest. Kane as Grant said is injury prone but when fit and playing in a top team which Spurs aren’t, he would score a lot of goals. He is still not the level of a Shearer, a Lineker or even a young MIchael Owen. If Kane moves to one of the Manchester teams he will score plenty of goals.

Marco

21-06-2021, 16:58

On another note, i'm enjoying the North Macedonia vs. Netherlands game, with the latter so far carrying on from their superb performances against Ukraine and Austria. I really like what De Boer is building there, much like Mancini is (has done) with Italy, and whether they win this tournament or not will defo be a force to be reckoned with at the World Cup.

I also think that North Macedonia have been a breath of fresh air in this tournament and unlucky not to have some points on the board, although obviously getting to the tournament was a big achievement for them. However, I love their team spirit and positive style of play/never-say-die attitude, and they have a few class acts throughout their side, especially up front in Trajkovski and Pandev.

The latter, although getting on a bit now is clearly a very skilful player, whom I'd never heard of before this tournament! Who does/did he play for?:)

You might laugh, but I could see him doing a job for Celtic, for a season or two, in the role of a Lubomir Moravcik/playmaker, with bags of experience, and I doubt he'd cost much. I just like his vison/awareness and skill on the ball.

Marco.

struth

21-06-2021, 17:01

Marco

21-06-2021, 17:03

Ah I see, thanks. Do you see where I'm coming from with him, though?:)

Marco.

struth

21-06-2021, 17:06

Ah I see, thanks. Do you see where I'm coming from with him, though?:)

Marco.

yeah he is a top player. played for lazio and inter too.

struth

21-06-2021, 17:08

I’ll throw in my tuppence worth, currently and for the last 10 years at least, Messi and Ronaldo are on a completely different level from any other goal scorers. Of the others, Lewandowski is the best of the rest. Kane as Grant said is injury prone but when fit and playing in a top team which Spurs aren’t, he would score a lot of goals. He is still not the level of a Shearer, a Lineker or even a young MIchael Owen. If Kane moves to one of the Manchester teams he will score plenty of goals.

yeah id agree on lewandowski... the dazzling twosome are not strikers as such, but are probably the 2 best players for last 30 years

anubisgrau

21-06-2021, 17:16

pandev has a CL title when played for inter lead by mourinho in 2010, kicked out chelsea in 1/8
top class guy, now 38

rmcin626

21-06-2021, 17:17

yeah he is a top player. played for lazio and inter too.

He is also in his late 30’s, this is last international game.

struth

21-06-2021, 17:32

England's Ben Chilwell and Mason Mount have to self-isolate as a precaution after coming into close contact with Scotland's Billy Gilmour

Marco

21-06-2021, 17:43

He is also in his late 30’s, this is last international game.

Yeah I know, but I think he could still hack it in the SPL, for a season or two, and he could be used sparingly, especially on European nights. Could be an interesting one:)

The other one I'd take, which would be a lot more expensive, is Shakiri, who's really not getting a game for Liverpool. I just love these types of players, the Nakamuras, Laudrups, Di Canios, etc - players that can win games in the blink of an eye with a flash of brilliance. In short, ENTERTAINERS!

All good (big) teams should have one!:)

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 17:44

England's Ben Chilwell and Mason Mount have to self-isolate as a precaution after coming into close contact with Scotland's Billy Gilmour

That'll be a bit of a blow to England.

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 17:46

pandev has a CL title when played for inter lead by mourinho in 2010, kicked out chelsea in 1/8
top class guy, now 38

Cheers, Gordan. Yes I rate him - my kind of player. I've always like mercurial types of players, blessed with natural ability. as I said, ENTERTAINERS!

That's something which is often forgotten these days, with some mind-numbingly boring tactical battles, akin to games of chess, that football is *supposed* to entertain people!:)

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 17:48

yeah id agree on lewandowski...

I'd also put Lukaku in there. I prefer both to Kane.

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 17:49

yeah he is a top player. played for lazio and inter too.

Yups... Can't imagine he would cost too much at his age, either...?

Marco.

Marco

21-06-2021, 17:50

Marco

21-06-2021, 18:04

I think our terms are slightly crossed then as perhaps my definition of "World class" is the top of what is around at the moment. Which I think for strikers at least Kane firmly is in. Albeit not quite at the top of his game at the moment. I remember a point a few seasons ago when he was dragging us to results, not least with self-made goals against Arsenal and Chelsea.

Yups, it's simply a case of semantics. I know where you're coming from, and I think you know where I'm coming from, too:)

In your terminology then no not quite at that supreme elite level yet, but, if he were to continue his form of the past 5 years or so and indeed win something with England (haha), he could elevate himself to that bracket yet.

Maybe the impending move to city will help him 'become' more elite and fulfil the those final requirements to be considered up there with the footballing gods you have mentioned there.

Yeah I agree, or maybe a move abroad? I think he could do well in the likes of the Bundesliga, with Bayern or Dortmund.

To add to your list I would also put my favorite of all time Ronaldinho, as was just pure joy on a football pitch and that for me is a huge element as to why I will always refer people to clips of him just having great fun, yet ruling opponents on a football pitch.

Lol yeah, I'd added him after you quoted me! If you scroll back, you'll see his name in there. I'd also have the likes of Rivaldo, Ronaldo (Brazil) and Del Piero on that list, among others!:)

Jamie Vardy - such a shame he retired from England duty when he did but at the time he was third or lower in the pecking order. There were rumours of a return but he was getting tired of travelling with the squad to play back-up to Kane all the time.

For me this is still sacrilege though as in my opinion no matter how 'tedious' or disappointing a tour away with little game time may be, it's your country and the whole reason you set out to play football in the first place. Okay, he may have a young family and want to spend time at home watching them grow up etc, I do get that, but still, if the call came I'd be there no matter the circumstances.

More of a shame because he certainly offers something different going forward and even though he is slowing a tad now, has/had electric pace and is an excellent finisher. Defenses are scared stiff and just do not know what to do against pace. In the words of Alan Hansen "Ye cannot defent against paayce". A Rolls Royce defender if ever there was one . . . .

Haha, I agree with all of your points above, including Hansen, and the days when Scotland had genuine world class players!

Didn't know Vardy had retired from international football. Yes, that's defo England's loss! I firmly believe he'd have been an asset to them during this tournament, for all the reasons you've given.

Marco.

Lawrence001

21-06-2021, 19:08

Yes, I get what you mean, Lawrence, but in this instance the decision wouldn't have been about money. That certainly wouldn't have been in Mancini's head when he picked the team. His only concern would've been trying to win the game and ultimately the tournament, via the best means possible!

That's why he fielded some of his reserves, which let's face it were still quality players and well able of giving Wales a good game:)

Belgium and the Netherlands are likely to do similar, although I doubt will make as many changes, as for me they don't quite have the strength in depth in their squads of Italy.

For the respective managers and players, it's all about winning games in the best (most sensible) way possible, and trying to lift that trophy at the end. Money doesn't come into it, as this is not the Champions League.

Marco.Tbh I'm not really into football so I didn't even consider that were talking about the Euros on here.

I think if you take my statement about modern football and apply it to the major leagues you'll find it stands up more. I'm thinking of how players routinely fall over when they smell a penalty in the box, how teams play strategies that mathematically maximise the probability of winning a game (long balls, defensive formations, playing super defensive football once you've got a lead, etc) but leave the fans bored, how players are now almost like consultants and just turn up in helicopters to play the game and fly back home, with one eye to the next transfer, the investment in local up and coming talent with no genuine desire to get them into the A team rather than just tick an (FA?) box, and generally totally missing the passion behind the game many years ago.

Marco

21-06-2021, 19:15

Tbh I'm not really into football so I didn't even consider that were talking about the Euros on here.

Ah, that explains a lot.. The clue's in the thread title, mate;)

I think if you take my statement about modern football and apply it to the major leagues you'll find it stands up more.

Absolutely!:)

Marco.

Opti-cal

22-06-2021, 07:47

I'd also put Lukaku in there. I prefer both to Kane.

Marco.

Yes I certainly agree, I think Lukaku has just pushed ahead of both Kane and Lewandowski due to his performances so far in the tournament, and for Belgium in general. He is so powerful and strong that there really is not much a defender can do once he's rolled them.

I think overall (say over the past 4 seasons) those three are the best strikers in Europe, Lukaku struggled at United for sure as they weren't playing to his strengths and he was a less complete player. His first touch was poor on a lot of occasions but he has clearly worked on this and now is deservedly a major reason why both his club and country are competing for honors.

Lewandowski is just an absolute machine in Germany (and usually internationally also).

Yeah I agree, or maybe a move abroad? I think he could do well in the likes of the Bundesliga, with Bayern or Dortmund.

No doubt he'd be a hit there as he would get so many chances but in my personal opinion I think he'd see Dortmund as a sideways move, Bayern perhaps (can you imagine him and Lewandowski tearing into defences!) but I think he will stay in England and I think it will be City who secure his services.

Also I think he's custom made for the premier league and he has a wealth of experience in it now. Some strikers who have done it elsewhere have come, tried and ultimately failed. It rarely happens the other way around. Strikers leaving the Premier League are usually in fact far more prolific than they ever were in the PL. I know there are a lot of arguments against, but my and many others view, is that the Premier League IS the ultimate test for players. Practically every game is tough and any team can beat any team on a given day. That's not being disrespectful to other leagues at all, it's just how they are structured and how there is so much money washing around the premier league, that even the lower teams can attract players good enough to compete with the big boys of the league.

It's difficult to say that about La Liga, Serie A and the Bundasliga (although they are all more competitive of late but you still know who's going to beat who generally).

Although this makes for a 'strong', competitive league it also means managers are under so much pressure that they are less likely to 'trust' younger homegrown players from their own (very expensive and 'elite' level quality) academies. The risks of a player coming in and not performing because they are young and untested are just too great, so they opt for a 'bargain' continental player with some pedigree at least. When the lifespan of a PL manager is what it is (damn short) the emphasis goes away from bringing through homegrown English talent and simply skews in favour of survival and winning, a shame for me and for those potential players.

On the continent they don't necessarily have the cash to be able to do this so it forces their hands sometimes into making use of their youth development structures, often to the gain of national teams and after some time the club develops a true positive 'club' mentality where ALL the players care about the shirt as the club has invested time, effort, trust and responsibility into them. It would be nice if the PL had a bit more of that to be honest. Although happily we are beginning to see some teams (Spurs a few years ago and Aston Villa/Chelsea/Arsenal/Man City now) start to adopt that policy a bit more.

Admittedly the PL doesn't attract quite the quality it maybe used to (although I think that might change soon with Haaland and others eyeing up moves to it), but this brings me to my next point.

The PL is grueling on players and players in other leagues do not get as frequently tested physically as they do here. This means other teams in different leagues can afford to 'rest' players on occasion either by bringing them off early or rotating their squads in order to make sure their biggest players are ready and fittest for the 'big' games (including Champions League).

I also feel that then a lot of players who don't play in England always arrive to tournaments fresher and in better condition than those who do play in the PL. But, this is a well flogged horse regarding having a winter break and longer gaps between matches etc, ultimately the broadcasters in this country simply wouldn't do without the revenue of games at Christmas and New Year etc. Unfortunately we don't really gear anything towards helping the national team and players in this country, like most things they are just cash cows, well paid cash cows but commodities none the less.