View Full Version : Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.
AJSki2fly
15-11-2020, 11:45
I'm tempted by these Tannoys now, but I don't want to buy them and then come back on here moanin'.........
The Tannoys you refer to may be the answer. Have you tried the sale or return option with the dealer, most reputable dealers will do this, especially if they believe in the equipment and consider it likely they will get a sale anyway. I know that distance in this case is restrictive, apart from covid issues, but it may be that accepting the possible cost of return shipping may be worth it if the dealer is in agreement.
Just a though. :)
Hi Martin, have you owned an S500 or listened to one for any period of time? If you have then maybe your view is a bit more than purely subjective. :D
.
I had a fairly extended listen to a system using one, speakers IIRC were modified Snells. Not by any means the worst system I have heard but when it was bad it was bad. Not something I could live with as it would dictate what recordings I could listen to. So I can't agree that it is a 'neutral' sounding amplifier.
It is just my subjective opinion though, I respect that others will have a different one. Ultimately It's up to Mike what he wants to take from the various opinions offered - if anything!
Pigmy Pony
15-11-2020, 12:58
I believe acoustics are better in Stoke. Something to do with atmospheric density and the all year round dampness. :D
I used to have a girlfriend like that. But she didn't sound so good at high volumes.
Pigmy Pony
15-11-2020, 13:04
And don't forget Aled Jones, who I gather is teaming up with Brian Blessed for a Xmas Special. (Scary thought! :eek:)
With his huge collection of XXXXL festive pullovers Brian is an obvious choice. Whenever Brian was travelling, he used to take a load of dumb bells and free weights in his holdall. He liked to watch the bell boy's face when helping him with his luggage. Brian's just the right side of mental, God bless him :)
Pigmy Pony
15-11-2020, 13:06
If you like :) You can do all the loading and unloading :D
Bloody hell, do I have to do everything? :D
Pigmy Pony
15-11-2020, 13:10
He may have a scheme organised with Audio Al. :)
(Where is Al? Not seen him for a while, hope he's OK)
Apparently he's having a bit of a break. I suspect he put his back out hoovering behind his new turntable.
I've been told off more than once by Marco for my blunt rudeness (objectivist views with no compassion for the subjectivist opinion), and being perfectly honest, he may have had a point (I say "may" because there's no way I'm fully admiting I'm wrong :)). Who want's to admit they're wrong?.
Ha - and is your botty still smarting from its spanking, shweety?:D;)
In all seriousness, the key thing is you've obviously found enough here that you like, to both curb your 'objectivist excesses' (lol), stick around and essentially FIT IN, which is what I was saying to Stephen. However, there's certainly nothing wrong with being wrong, as being wrong, or making mistakes, is the only way you learn and improve as a person.
I admire polite forum users and wish I could be a bit more like that. I guess we we should all make a little more effort to be nice... I wise man once said, if you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Absolutely, however I've never found your input here particularly rude. We may not have agreed in the past on certain matters, but clearly you understand that 'words on a screen' are in reality rather more than that, as those words will undoubtedly have an impact, adversely or otherwise, on the human being at the other end, so when posting on forums, one should always bear that in mind.
Unfortunately, in our increasingly soulless and virtual world, where face to face contact and interaction with other people is evermore on the decline, basic human qualities, such as good manners, which at one time any well-brought up person would've practiced without question, are now fatally being eroded, as we spend increasing amounts of time behind computer screens, thus lose the very traits that make us human.
Well, AoS and I are *vehemently* against that and will fight to protect the very things that make living on this earth a pleasure. In that respect, this forum and its community will always reflect what I'm used to in the world that *I* inhabit, not the one modern society seems intent on destroying - and in 'my world' people are nice to each other and automatically treat each other with courtesy and respect, and therefore that is subsequently how things will always be on AoS:)
Marco.
Hi Mike,
Snowflakes are out early this year I see, world is turning to shit cos society is too worried about someone’s feelings. I saw nothing wrong in KDs posts
Broadly I agree, but I trust I've explained now in recent posts exactly where I stand on the matter. The problem with 'KD' was that he simply wasn't interested in fitting in, and probably should've read what AoS was about before he joined.
I was also receiving numerous complaints about him from regular, long-established members who were unhappy with his input, so something had to be done. And now it has, I wish him well elsewhere.
That said, best we all move on now and return to the thread topic, and of course the banter we all enjoy, which is also at the core of what makes AoS, AoS!:D
Marco.
Mikeandvan
15-11-2020, 14:15
Then be very selective, should you want some. They don't all get it right, in fact most don't.
What do you mean? That most Tannoys are no good?
Hi Mike,
Broadly I agree, but I trust I've explained now in recent posts exactly where I stand on the matter. The problem with 'KD' was that he simply wasn't interested in fitting in, and probably should've read what AoS was about before he joined.
I was also receiving numerous complaints about him from regular, long-established members who were unhappy with his input, so something had to be done. And now it has, I wish him well elsewhere.
That said, best we all move on now and return to the thread topic, and of course the banter we all enjoy, which is also at the core of what makes AoS, AoS!:D
Marco.Didn't realise that, all cool here [emoji6][emoji4]
Mikeandvan
15-11-2020, 15:07
Sold that huge chest of drawers so now more room for experiment with positioning, just listened Abbey Road on CD and it was pretty good.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50602682187_e341f83fd0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k6zYrH)IMG_20201114_204827037 (https://flic.kr/p/2k6zYrH) by https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50602682157_4a562c3849_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2k6zYrc)IMG_20201114_204835888 (https://flic.kr/p/2k6zYrc) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/
I do think that having a large object between speakers, like a rack for example, is bad, and emptiness there, good.
I would now try hanging some rippled towels at the sides of the speakers.
I do think that having a large object between speakers, like a rack for example, is bad, and emptiness there, good.
I would now try hanging some rippled towels at the sides of the speakers.Try a couple of duvets rolled up behind the speakers
Light Dependant Resistor
15-11-2020, 19:15
Maybe too, if the speakers have rear ports, try extending the port length, something as simple as a kitchen wrap roll can suffice to extend. I recall doing this with a pair of Kef Cresta's with very good result.
Mikeandvan
15-11-2020, 20:37
Thanks all, will try those ideas soon, meanwhile I've brought the speakers out into the room more, and narrowed the distance between them, I think they sound better like this, also bought out my old Charios which aren't half bad either, they do give a smaller sound though, and the sibilance still exists with them, its obviously music at frequency extremes that's the problem, would a speaker with a wider frequency tweeter help or am I talking crap? Think I might buy a long low TV type stand to site my audio equipment as my room is looking a bit bare, but bolt a TT stand to the wall somewhere.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50605858878_4e7eb506ee_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k6SfLf)IMG_20201115_182647153 (https://flic.kr/p/2k6SfLf) by https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50605858863_e953beb789_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2k6SfKZ)IMG_20201115_182711856 (https://flic.kr/p/2k6SfKZ) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/
Mikeandvan
15-11-2020, 20:38
Try a couple of duvets rolled up behind the speakers
On the floor or hanging?
On the floor or hanging?I was thinking behind the speakers, perhaps hanging, it was just an idea to cover the wall and see if that prevented any brightness, I've even seen people recommend hanging a rug or something behind the listening position to see if that helped.
I'd always thought that AN speakers were designed to go right against the wall, into the corners of the room, with NO space behind them? That's certainly how I've always seen them demo'd at shows...
You've got yours in relative free space, Mike. Have you tried them, as I've described?
Marco.
I'd always thought that AN speakers were designed to go right against the wall, into the corners of the room, with NO space behind them? That's certainly how I've always seen them demo'd at shows...
You've got yours in relative free space, Mike. Have you tried them, as I've described?
Marco.That's interesting, would certainly give more bass which won't go amiss
I'm no expert on the matter, Mike, but it's how I've always seen them demo'd... Right against the wall, and into the corners [flying in the face of conventional wisdom], then toed into the listening position.
Worth a try, I guess?:)
Marco.
Have a read here, particularly under the section entitled "Positioning": https://www.dagogo.com/audio-note-jspe-loudspeaker-review/
I'm presuming that the above applies to all AN stand-mount designs. As I said, it's certainly always how I've seen the company themselves demonstrating them, usually in a smallish room, and they've always sounded pretty good to my ears.
The rule seems to be corner loading, and very wide-apart placement (using the full width of the room), with sharp toeing in towards the listening position - all of which, from the pics he's shown, Mike hasn't got going on now.
Marco.
The first pic looked about right to me. At the demos they have them right into the corner as far as possible and toed right in as far as they will go. It doesn't work, you get bass like a 1950s radiogram. Unless that is what you want I suppose.
Anyway first thing I would try is put the speakers back a bit and get rid of the toe in. Have them aiming straight ahead. That'll reduce the amount of high frequency you are getting directly. Should help, possibly quite a bit.
Rug/ tapestry thing on the wall behind you and the one behind the speaker is a good idea too, Then look at a bit of damping on the first reflection points on the walls either side of the speakers. That one is a bit more difficult to disguise as 'decor' though.
Cool room. Looks like it is California or somewhere like that.
The first pic looked about right to me. At the demos they have them right into the corner as far as possible and toed right in as far as they will go. It doesn't work, you get bass like a 1950s radiogram.
That's not what I've heard whenever I've listened to their demos - quite the opposite! For me, Mike should try positioning his speakers as the manufacturer recommends (as outlined above) and see how it goes, then take it from there.
Marco.
From the article concerned (noting highlighted sections):
“Move the speaker to be as close to the side wall as possible, to the point of almost touching the wall, with the speaker 5 – 10 centimeter (2-4 inches) from the rear wall, toe the speakers in to aim 1-2 meters (3-6 feet) in front of the listener, now play a record or CD with some bass content to see how the low frequencies come across, then adjust the speaker angle to get a good and even energy spread between the speakers.”
In fact, this toe-in can be disconcerting for many audiophiles who are used to the more usual free standing face forward designs. Nevertheless, the speakers can have an almost 90 degree toe-in and still create a very strong stereo image. I found getting excellent results very easy to do in my listening space. The Audio Note J’s are one of the easiest speakers I have dealt with for positioning because tonally they sound so right. Nevertheless, to get the speakers bang on for both best imaging and deep powerful bass without bass boom then some time will be needed experimenting with toe-in and distance from corners and the back wall.
In my room, I get the best results with the speakers very hard in corners with a strong toe-in such that I can see the outside of the speaker boxes. This kind of positioning is quite different than what most people are used to but this works to allow the boxes to disappear and allow the musicians to be placed front and center. Lastly, it is advisable for ideal results to be in a listening chair where your ears are below the tweeters."
Marco.
fatmarley
15-11-2020, 23:27
Ha - and is your botty still smarting from its spanking, shweety?:D;)
Ooh, you are awful, but I like you (Said in my best Dick Emery voice).
Mikeandvan
16-11-2020, 00:57
|I've ad em in the corners, they're better now, out into the room a bit. Although tomorrow or the next day I may say different.
Mikeandvan
16-11-2020, 00:59
The first pic looked about right to me. At the demos they have them right into the corner as far as possible and toed right in as far as they will go. It doesn't work, you get bass like a 1950s radiogram. Unless that is what you want I suppose.
Anyway first thing I would try is put the speakers back a bit and get rid of the toe in. Have them aiming straight ahead. That'll reduce the amount of high frequency you are getting directly. Should help, possibly quite a bit.
Rug/ tapestry thing on the wall behind you and the one behind the speaker is a good idea too, Then look at a bit of damping on the first reflection points on the walls either side of the speakers. That one is a bit more difficult to disguise as 'decor' though.
Cool room. Looks like it is California or somewhere like that.
There are people in California right now, wishing they lived in South east england, probably lesbians.
|I've ad em in the corners, they're better now, out into the room a bit. Although tomorrow or the next day I may say different.
Ok, but have you had them in the corners whilst also sharply toed into the listening position?
Marco.
AJSki2fly
16-11-2020, 06:26
Yes, I remember when I purchased my Snell Js in 1989 that the dealer recommended quite an extreme toe in with the focal point where their axis crossed about 1 foot in front of the listener. It did seem odd at the time but worked.
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That's not what I've heard whenever I've listened to their demos - quite the opposite! For me, Mike should try positioning his speakers as the manufacturer recommends (as outlined above) and see how it goes, then take it from there.
Marco.
That's weird because one of the demos I was at you were there too and the bass was just silly bad. They played some sort of choral thing and that was fine, good even. But when it moved to rock it was all wrong. Badly wrong.
This is the only bit of that article that makes any sense to me:
''What else, you ask? The spacing between woofer and tweeter is too large to create a cohesive top-to-bottom sound, and mating an 8-inch woofer to a 1-inch tweeter means that the midrange can’t work properly. After all, most of the rest of the industry is of the view that an 8-inch woofer can’t negotiate the upper midrange while also producing ample enough bottom-end.
Okay, that’s all bad enough but on top of all of that, you want me to put the speaker in the corners of my room. Corner loading causes all sorts of bass problems and room issues. And there’s even more, you want me to run a high-distortion single-ended tube amplifier and downright weird-measuring zero over-sampling CD players?''
If you're getting piercing top end then making sure the tweeters are not pointing directly at your ears is a simple way to remedy that. I know that is not how the speaker is recommended to be used but if it that isn't working then you either experiment or change the speaker.
Stereophile measurement of Audionote E Lexus - Frequency response like the alps - some recordings will be enhanced by this but not in any truthful way. A lot more will be rendered unlistenable.
https://i.ibb.co/BC7w0mb/506-ANEfig3.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
That's weird because one of the demos I was at you were there too and the bass was just silly bad. They played some sort of choral thing and that was fine, good even. But when it moved to rock it was all wrong. Badly wrong.
Yes, but Mike's problem isn't with the bass, is it? So, although I have vague memories of what you're referring to (although any number of variables could've been responsible for that), it's irrelevant in the context of the problem Mike's trying to fix.
Marco.
Yes, but Mike's problem isn't with the bass, is it? So, although I have vague memories of what you're referring to (although any number of variables could've been responsible for that), it's irrelevant in the context of the problem Mike's trying to fix.
Marco.
The bass aspect might be irrelevant, the toeing in of the speakers isn't. And jamming them into the corners as recommended will just create some bass problems to go along with the stridency problem.
What's needed in that space is a small, high quality three way that doesn't attempt deep bass. JBL would work, or Tannoy dual concentric. Possibly Yamaha NS1000M (or variation thereof). partnered with a clean sounding, low distortion amplifier, something from NAD or Rotel would probably do, at least for starters. A 3020 would do fine and cost next to nothing.
Then swap the CD player for something really smooth - Any Sony SACD player from the early 2000s will work well. I'd bet proper money that set up would solve all Mike's issues.
AJSki2fly
16-11-2020, 10:05
Yes, but Mike's problem isn't with the bass, is it? So, although I have vague memories of what you're referring to (although any number of variables could've been responsible for that), it's irrelevant in the context of the problem Mike's trying to fix.
Marco.
Quite right Marco.
I think it is worthwhile to not forget that Mike has reported the same issue with his Charios. It is unlikely he has picked two speakers that are top endy, although I have not checked.
As I have said before and you are highlighting Marco the Snell Js were quite critical for room placement and listening position, one reason I moved to the KEFs when we moved to a larger house with a more open plan lounge.
I would also not loose sight over the fact that the room is not far of being square, even though it does have a kitchen area off of it. Nearly square rooms, especially with lots of flat hard surfaces will accentuate mid-high end frequencies.
So a combo of bad speaker placement and the above could be and is likely to be the cause IMHO.
walpurgis
16-11-2020, 10:14
At least a set of vintage Tannoys could be tailored for top end response using the treble output level adjustment and treble roll-off controls. That might help.
Seventies Tannoy Eatons would probably sound very rewarding on the end of that system and take up no more space.
Those Js are not top endy
Mike found the AN ks that I have too sharp also.
Think you may just prefer a slightly recessed presence band/top end for certain instruments Mike.
Tone controls could be the answer.
The bass aspect might be irrelevant, the toeing in of the speakers isn't. And jamming them into the corners as recommended will just create some bass problems to go along with the stridency problem.
Yes the toeing in of the speakers is most certainly relevant, in terms of optimising the correct in-room response from the speakers.
If you've experimented at length, as I have (and I'm sure you have, too) with angles of toe-in with speakers in different rooms, then you'll know how crucial it can be in terms of getting the sound right - and getting it 'right', in that respect, can certainly influence the mid and top-end response of the speakers concerned, and help 'tame' brightness.
What's needed in that space is a small, high quality three way that doesn't attempt deep bass. JBL would work, or Tannoy dual concentric. Possibly Yamaha NS1000M (or variation thereof). partnered with a clean sounding, low distortion amplifier, something from NAD or Rotel would probably do, at least for starters. A 3020 would do fine and cost next to nothing.
Then swap the CD player for something really smooth - Any Sony SACD player from the early 2000s will work well. I'd bet proper money that set up would solve all Mike's issues.
Possibly; your thought process is certainly logical, but before Mike changes his speakers, he needs to ensure that he's done *everything* possible to get the ANs to work in his room, and that includes experimenting *thoroughly* with ALL aspects of positioning, especially with toe-in angles, before he gives up on them and tries something else.
Marco.
I think it is worthwhile to not forget that Mike has reported the same issue with his Charios. It is unlikely he has picked two speakers that are top endy, although I have not checked.
As I have said before and you are highlighting Marco the Snell Js were quite critical for room placement and listening position, one reason I moved to the KEFs when we moved to a larger house with a more open plan lounge.
I would also not loose sight over the fact that the room is not far of being square, even though it does have a kitchen area off of it. Nearly square rooms, especially with lots of flat hard surfaces will accentuate mid-high end frequencies.
So a combo of bad speaker placement and the above could be and is likely to be the cause IMHO.
Yes, that's also my view of the matter, plus also of course like Macca says the possibility that the speakers themselves are just wrong for the room - but before that conclusion is reached every avenue should be explored in terms of optimising the positioning.
Marco.
For room reflection problems I mount a curtain on walls as though over a window, heavy velvet from charity shops.
Mikeandvan
16-11-2020, 15:19
The bass aspect might be irrelevant, the toeing in of the speakers isn't. And jamming them into the corners as recommended will just create some bass problems to go along with the stridency problem.
What's needed in that space is a small, high quality three way that doesn't attempt deep bass. JBL would work, or Tannoy dual concentric. Possibly Yamaha NS1000M (or variation thereof). partnered with a clean sounding, low distortion amplifier, something from NAD or Rotel would probably do, at least for starters. A 3020 would do fine and cost next to nothing.
Then swap the CD player for something really smooth - Any Sony SACD player from the early 2000s will work well. I'd bet proper money that set up would solve all Mike's issues.
Aah, I'd love the Ns1000s if they worked! Doesn't Jamie (Karma67) use them with a John Wood valve amp?
Mikeandvan
16-11-2020, 15:26
Those Js are not top endy
Thanks Steve, good to have your opinion, as you've owned most of my hifi! I guess then issue is either my room, or how I hear sound, I am quite sensitive to discordant sound, whether its jazz trumpet or screechy guitar, but that is amongst my favourite music. My cd player is well old, could do with a once over, its got a high quality chip and mechanism.
Mikeandvan
16-11-2020, 15:28
Then be very selective, should you want some. They don't all get it right, in fact most don't.
Hi Geoff, just curious what you meant by that comment? Are you saying there is an issue with quality control on the legacy models as I am contemplating buying a pair of Legacy Eatons, reduced to £3k.
Aah, I'd love the Ns1000s if they worked! Doesn't Jamie (Karma67) use them with a John Wood valve amp?
I think he does.
Mikeandvan
16-11-2020, 15:31
Quite right Marco.
I think it is worthwhile to not forget that Mike has reported the same issue with his Charios. It is unlikely he has picked two speakers that are top endy, although I have not checked.
As I have said before and you are highlighting Marco the Snell Js were quite critical for room placement and listening position, one reason I moved to the KEFs when we moved to a larger house with a more open plan lounge.
I would also not loose sight over the fact that the room is not far of being square, even though it does have a kitchen area off of it. Nearly square rooms, especially with lots of flat hard surfaces will accentuate mid-high end frequencies.
So a combo of bad speaker placement and the above could be and is likely to be the cause IMHO.
Hi Adrian, yes I had the Charios in yesterday, and they weren't that different from the Js in terms of the top end, not as much detail over all, the Js do excel at that I think, Dusty's voice on In Memphis was quite extraordinary.
AJSki2fly
16-11-2020, 15:50
Hi Geoff, just curious what you meant by that comment? Are you saying there is an issue with quality control on the legacy models as I am contemplating buying a pair of Legacy Eatons, reduced to £3k.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Legacy quality control IMO, have owned a pair of Legacy Arden's. There are lots of views and arguments about vintage versus new Tannoy's, you can go down the proverbial rabbit hole if you get involved in that. My Arden's were superb and from what others have told me the rest of the range a pretty special including the Eaton's. If Sue would let me I would go back to a pair tomorrow but that is not going to happen in a hurry and thankfully my WB Vectors do 98% of what the Tannoys do.
It is a good thing to remember that manufacturers are aiming to improve products, Tannoy when re-introducing their Legacy range they would have done just that, they also now have the benefit of modern technology to use to improve designs and manufacturing.
This review is from Paul Rigby is probably as close to the truth you will get about them. https://theaudiophileman.com/eaton/
Mikeandvan
18-11-2020, 00:27
System sounding a bit better now overall, getting rid of that large chest of drawers definitely a good idea, allows more room for speaker positioning, speakers are away from both walls, not as Audio note recommend, but they sound better that way to me. Bit more content with sound, though sharpness in high notes persists. Some nice wow moments, with imaging etc, still not tried with rock though, as need to set up TT shelf on wall, and only have jazz on cd. This is with the S500, after I replaced all the valves with Gold lions, might try changing the valves in the Soro too, or I may not, really doesn't seem to be much difference in quality between the two amps, the S500 was modified by AD audio so is far from standard.
Got the mayware set up yet ?
Mikeandvan
18-11-2020, 10:59
Got the mayware set up yet ?
Not yet!
And that Shure cartridge!:ner:;)
Stop frettin' over speakers and get yer arse in gear, boyo....
Marco.
Mikeandvan
21-11-2020, 19:12
I'm considering getting a psychic in, bad spirits might be interfering in my enjoyment of music, I've tried almost everything else. Apart from that, when my fridge goes off, you know when it hums and then stops, I guess cos its reached the right temperature, then a click is heard through my speakers, does that mean anything? I've taken the mains conditioner out, as it was just a big box having little effect, is there anything else I should try power wise?
AJSki2fly
21-11-2020, 19:27
Get an electrician to run a cable to a dedicated socket for the HiFi that is on its own circuit from the consumer unit.
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Mikeandvan
21-11-2020, 19:36
Get an electrician to run a cable to a dedicated socket for the HiFi that is on its own circuit from the consumer unit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No way man, I just rent the flat!
Filterlab
21-11-2020, 20:54
Mains conditioner? Mine works perfectly; never a click or hum whatsoever. Inky black background, even with the valve buffer.
Mikeandvan
21-11-2020, 20:58
Mains conditioner? Mine works perfectly; never a click or hum whatsoever. Inky black background, even with the valve buffer.
I've taken the mains conditioner out now, can't remember whether the clicks were there when it was in, but the general sound is no different.
My last fridge did the same, and it was even worse with my Midi Time Piece MIDI interface because it set up a permanent sound from the MIDI instruments. So I would go out and return home to find 70dB of synthesiser had been playing for a long time.
RS did a suppression potted block in packs containing a cap and resistor, packs of three or five I believe, and I fitted one in the mains connection box on the fridge with some improvement.
Contact switch suppressors are readily obtained from Maplin or RS. They are usually a series combination of a 0.1uF 500V capacitor with a 100R resistor encapsulated in a single package. You can fit them across the thermostat contacts of your fridge, but only do so if you know what you are doing.
Otherwise you could try plugging your audio system into another socket further away from the socket into which your fridge is plugged.
jahsavage
11-12-2020, 12:25
I have the P5 which is brillant, it supplies all my devices with power and even powers up each item slightly after the other to avoid max current demand, but it still does not stop interference from my BT internal phones. My TE Groove picks up a mains like buzz and I get scan noise in the speakers from the handset. The only way around this is to switch off the power to the base station and move the handsets behind a metre thich wall.
Jac Hawk
13-12-2020, 09:57
As Adrian has said you need to get your kit on another circuit, to me it sounds like it's on the same circuit as your kitchen / fridge, try different sockets or shoot the fridge, who needs cold beer anyway?
With regard to the earlier discussion on HF problems being possibly due to our ears, tinnitus and hyperacusis, the following may be helpful.
For several weeks I have been catching a bus at about 0830, and in that bus are children being taken to school. On smaller child shrieks at high volumes, and the spread across the spectrum must be from the mids right up through the top. This is of course a natural sound and can be regraded as a reference for checking coloration at HF. I have heard no such squawking that was not naturally a part of the child's noises, and I have both of the above deficiencies. I do however get it on my system, varied in nature and extent, probably almost certainly the sources.
anthonyTD
13-12-2020, 12:08
Good refrence,
And from my own experience, it is not the fundamental frequency that causes the issue, but the Harmonics, which could be a combination of the higher odds!
With regard to the earlier discussion on HF problems being possibly due to our ears, tinnitus and hyperacusis, the following may be helpful.
For several weeks I have been catching a bus at about 0830, and in that bus are children being taken to school. On smaller child shrieks at high volumes, and the spread across the spectrum must be from the mids right up through the top. This is of course a natural sound and can be regraded as a reference for checking coloration at HF. I have heard no such squawking that was not naturally a part of the child's noises, and I have both of the above deficiencies. I do however get it on my system, varied in nature and extent, probably almost certainly the sources.
Mikeandvan
31-03-2021, 18:21
Hi all, haven't posted here for a while, but as some of you know I was using an Audio note Soro and an AI S500 modded by AD audio. I compared the two over a period of around 6 months and came to the conclusion there was barely any difference, mind you I can't tell the difference between various tone arms, so there we go. But seriously, there is not much in it quality wise, very slight differences presentation wise, but that could be down to valves. I sold the Soro to very happy Eastern European chap, like me he also used An Js, but was envious of my mint 'old' ones, thanks Steve! Right after selling the Soro my S500 started sounding a bit shit, and I thought was I remembering things right, as I swore they both sounded good! Then it started buzzing a bit, being the jump the gun type I am I brought it back to David at AD audio - luckily fitting this in with my work trips to London, who thought it was a bad resistor first, but then realised it was a bad valve! Something I should have checked first, but there we go, jump the gun as usual. Had it back from David now a few weeks, and just getting a chance to have a good listen to it. I had Gold lion kt77s fitted, but obv one valve was kaput, so installed Chinese JJ el34s for a bit, and it sounded great. Got around to buying another Gold lion, and have been running it in this past week and its now sounding pretty sweet. The bass excels, fully formed and quite luscious, listening to Alexander spence Oar its quite special, United states of america - like hearing it anew. Though The Byrds 'Notorious bird bros' can sound a bit congested and bass heavy in parts. At the moment I mostly play jazz and funk, haven't had chance to play Stones or Kinks type stuff yet, the kind of thing I've always struggled with stridency wise, but just thought I'd post this, as I was thinking about getting another system, but think I'll stick with this now, need to finesse my front end vinyl wise, at the mo using a 1210 gr with standard tonearm and Shure cart - Sc35c, but not sure I've got it set up optimally. Would defo like to try some other carts, but nothing silly expensive. I've done away with all extraneous hifi kit now like mains conditioner, slabs for speakers etc, cannot notice the difference at all. I've got spikes going into floorboards and it sounds fine.
Spot the new valve.................
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AJSki2fly
31-03-2021, 18:35
Hi all, haven't posted here for a while, but as some of you know I was using an Audio note Soro and an AI S500 modded by AD audio. I compared the two over a period of around 6 months and came to the conclusion there was barely any difference, mind you I can't tell the difference between various tone arms, so there we go. But seriously, there is not much in it quality wise, very slight differences presentation wise, but that could be down to valves. I sold the Soro to very happy Eastern European chap, like me he also used An Js, but was envious of my mint 'old' ones, thanks Steve! Right after selling the Soro my S500 started sounding a bit shit, and I thought was I remembering things right, as I swore they both sounded good! Then it started buzzing a bit, being the jump the gun type I am I brought it back to David at AD audio - luckily fitting this in with my work trips to London, who thought it was a bad resistor first, but then realised it was a bad valve! Something I should have checked first, but there we go, jump the gun as usual. Had it back from David now a few weeks, and just getting a chance to have a good listen to it. I had Gold lion kt77s fitted, but obv one valve was kaput, so installed Chinese JJ el34s for a bit, and it sounded great. Got around to buying another Gold lion, and have been running it in this past week and its now sounding pretty sweet. The bass excels, fully formed and quite luscious, listening to Alexander spence Oar its quite special, United states of america - like hearing it anew. At the moment I mostly play jazz and funk, haven't had chance to play Stones or Kinks type stuff yet, the kind of thing I've always struggled with stridency wise, but just thought I'd post this, as I was thinking about getting another system, but think I'll stick with this now, need to finesse my front end vinyl wise, at the mo using a 1210 gr with standard tonearm and Shure cart - Sc35c, but not sure I've got it set up optimally. Would defo like to try some other carts, but nothing silly expensive. I've done away with all extraneous hifi kit now like mains conditioner, slabs for speakers etc, cannot notice the difference at all. I've got spikes going into floorboards and it sounds fine.
Spot the new valve.................
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51017197300_1fb72eb648.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kJdtm1)20210331_190125 (https://flic.kr/p/2kJdtm1) by
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2kQkwMg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51086473617_135b7d4fef.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/)20210331_190054 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQkwMg) by
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2kQkwK2]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51086473487_20c62b4677.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/)20210331_190107 (https://flic.kr/p/2kQkwK2) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/]
Great post Mike, lovely to hear that you are happy and system is settling in, it’s looking good. Just small tweaks now to optimise, one thing and a little at a time.
All the best
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mikeandvan
31-03-2021, 18:46
Cheers Adrian, have been without the Audio note/S500 set up for quite a while, been listening through an Exposure XX which wasn't great to be honest. Realise what absolute joy a proper hifi can bring, though as you say it still needs some tweaking, I still have my 401 which I;ve yet to plinth!
Phew. You got there in the end. The Js play music, they're not perfect but as all rounders they're superb.
Time to to enjoy the tunes now Mike.
It all looks superb BTW.
Ps im still loving the AN Ks. They're just that bit tighter and brighter which works in my carpeted and alcoved room. The Js had a bigger richer sound for sure. Its all compromises init.
Mikeandvan
04-04-2021, 18:21
Ps im still loving the AN Ks. They're just that bit tighter and brighter which works in my carpeted and alcoved room. The Js had a bigger richer sound for sure. Its all compromises init.
Yep, swapping them suited us both well I think! I found the K's too bass light, so that accentuated the treble, making them too strident for me.
Hi Mike, I started reading your thread a week ago and thought you may resort to a hand grenade to really sort out the problem :mad:
I was going to suggest you use a pair of headphones as a reference, which effectively removes the room's acoustic signature and will allow you to hear the rest of your components. Perhaps something for you to consider if you get 'stuck' again.
Your AN speakers are an unusual approach which has some merit. By utilising the room corners no Baffle Step Compensation is required in the XO design. BSC always robs a few dB's from the speakers sensitivity. 3 dB saved is the same as upgrading to an amp of twice the power.
The corner placement also, via boundary reinforcement, enhances bass and permits more perceived bass from flea power amps. It also removes some but not all of the problems associated with strong early refections. It is a brave approach, which any designer worth his salt will understand. The vast bulk of speakers are tending towards easy to market narrow baffle designs, not everybody has corners available nor are they drawn to relatively plain 'unattractive' boxes.
To be clear I am saying you have a good pair of speakers which are worth persevering with.
The graph posted by Martin, which he described as 'the alps' was incorrectly interpreted. That is not the speakers' frequency response, which if it was I agree is hopeless, it is the individual response of each drive unit and it is the summed response that will represent the freq. response.
Marco linked to a review on your speakers. I think he should stick to listening impressions and not try explain the technical side of the design. Below is a copy/paste of where I stopped reading!
"What else, you ask? The spacing between woofer and tweeter is too large to create a cohesive top-to-bottom sound, and mating an 8-inch woofer to a 1-inch tweeter means that the midrange can’t work properly. After all, most of the rest of the industry is of the view that an 8-inch woofer can’t negotiate the upper midrange while also producing ample enough bottom-end"
The photos of your room indicate some acoustic treatment is necessary. You are renting but any treatment installed can be relocated to your next place if you move. Acoustics play a bigger part than most realise. A square room will need more work than a more friendly oblong room with better length/width ratio.
The graph posted by Martin, which he described as 'the alps' was incorrectly interpreted. That is not the speakers' frequency response, which if it was I agree is hopeless, it is the individual response of each drive unit and it is the summed response that will represent the freq. response.
It was the speakers frequency response, although not the exact same speaker Mike has, it was a much more expensive Audionote speaker.
Here it is again in case anyone wants to check. You want figure 4. https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-note-e-lexus-signature-loudspeaker-measurements
Atkinson's been measuring speakers for decades, aside from a hump in the bass due to the method he uses his measurements are usually very close to those done in a proper anechoic chamber or with a Kilppel NFS
I wouldn't describe it as 'hopeless' although it's certainly poor compared to what you could buy for the same money ($12K back in 2006).
Anyway, as you were.
fatmarley
05-04-2021, 17:01
It was the speakers frequency response, although not the exact same speaker Mike has, it was a much more expensive Audionote speaker.
Here it is again in case anyone wants to check. You want figure 4. https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-note-e-lexus-signature-loudspeaker-measurements
Atkinson's been measuring speakers for decades, aside from a hump in the bass due to the method he uses his measurements are usually very close to those done in a proper anechoic chamber or with a Kilppel NFS
I wouldn't describe it as 'hopeless' although it's certainly poor compared to what you could buy for the same money ($12K back in 2006).
Anyway, as you were.
12k for an 8" 2-way with a wonky frequency response - bargain :)
Mikeandvan
22-04-2021, 22:19
Put a faux marble slab under my s500 last week, and felt how hot it was today, and I could be wrong but it seems a fair bit cooler, does this sound right?
Mikeandvan
22-04-2021, 22:31
Hi Mike, I started reading your thread a week ago and thought you may resort to a hand grenade to really sort out the problem :mad:
I was going to suggest you use a pair of headphones as a reference, which effectively removes the room's acoustic signature and will allow you to hear the rest of your components. Perhaps something for you to consider if you get 'stuck' again.
Your AN speakers are an unusual approach which has some merit. By utilising the room corners no Baffle Step Compensation is required in the XO design. BSC always robs a few dB's from the speakers sensitivity. 3 dB saved is the same as upgrading to an amp of twice the power.
The corner placement also, via boundary reinforcement, enhances bass and permits more perceived bass from flea power amps. It also removes some but not all of the problems associated with strong early refections. It is a brave approach, which any designer worth his salt will understand. The vast bulk of speakers are tending towards easy to market narrow baffle designs, not everybody has corners available nor are they drawn to relatively plain 'unattractive' boxes.
To be clear I am saying you have a good pair of speakers which are worth persevering with.
The graph posted by Martin, which he described as 'the alps' was incorrectly interpreted. That is not the speakers' frequency response, which if it was I agree is hopeless, it is the individual response of each drive unit and it is the summed response that will represent the freq. response.
Marco linked to a review on your speakers. I think he should stick to listening impressions and not try explain the technical side of the design. Below is a copy/paste of where I stopped reading!
"What else, you ask? The spacing between woofer and tweeter is too large to create a cohesive top-to-bottom sound, and mating an 8-inch woofer to a 1-inch tweeter means that the midrange can’t work properly. After all, most of the rest of the industry is of the view that an 8-inch woofer can’t negotiate the upper midrange while also producing ample enough bottom-end"
The photos of your room indicate some acoustic treatment is necessary. You are renting but any treatment installed can be relocated to your next place if you move. Acoustics play a bigger part than most realise. A square room will need more work than a more friendly oblong room with better length/width ratio.
Sorry, just noticed this, thanks. My listening room is not really square, well sort of, it has the kitchen adjoining it, same room, but the lounge part is square, and then another smaller square - the kitchen adjoins it. Of course the speakers are placed in the corners of one side of the square lounge. I do get quite a few different results with standing in different parts of the room including the kitchen. At the moment my initial results haven't changed much. The set up is good with sparse music like jazz and some rock, but not so good with more congested stuff, like 60s stones, and once again the treble can bit shrieky on both wind instruments, and also scratchy gutair. So a few examples - John Martyn was pleasing, but SOft machine not so much, and with some music it can all get a bit mushy. But it has its moments of joy, Scott Walkers 'Tilt' LP is excellent, as is some Coltrane stuff. The set up may be too revealing for me, as my tastes are quite broad, I think this is a set up ideal for sparse acoustic music for instance. But to honest, I'm getting a bit now, so starting to enjoy more these kinds oft things.
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