View Full Version : My 2019 Update Thread - My final system I think.
Not been as regular here on AOS as I'd like, elsewhere due to work commitments n stuff, so glad to have some time over the holidays to catch up. https://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/smile.gif
Been upgrading the system recently and thought I'd use this thread to update the system pics I've posted elsewhere.
Enjoyed my Oppo upgrade thread, so wanted to start something similar here, as there's a few things in the pipeline.
As I said, a few things coming up so here's the system before I started (what I hope to be) the final pieces of the puzzle and I can call the system done.
(No really... ACTUALLY finished. :))
Think this was the state of the system last time I did a gallery thread:
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/60d0771e40acdb2d069a4f47ffd799ab_zpsrzczv9mh.jpg
DIGITAL:
Dac: M2TEch Young Dac
Streamer: Logitech Transporter running Roon
CD/SACD Transport: Oppo 103
ANALOGUE
Turntable: Michell Gyrodec, with all Orbe bits. (Basically an Orbe all bar the Tacho psu)
Arm: SME V
Cart: Dynavector XX2 Mk2
AMPLIFICATION
Preamp: Densen DM20, recently recapped and serviced by Densen.
Power amp: 300B SET amp, all 8/9 watts per channel depending on how you measure it.
Valves: Electro Harmonix 300B Output tubes/ Tung Sol signal tubes
SPEAKERS Colin Topps' "Eddingdales", the original version.
CABLES
Speaker: Tellerium Q Ultra Black
Interconnects: Morrow Audio MA5
POWER/AC: Hardwired 2KVA Balanced mains unit, feeding 6 cable "Hydra" box feeding all equipment. (all wired with French 4mm solid core cable)
-----------------------------------------
Some things have changed since then, but there's more to follow so took it back a bit so I could use that as a baseline
Updates soon.
Ali Tait
28-12-2018, 16:15
Still got the hairy knee? :D
southall-1998_mk2
28-12-2018, 16:21
Very neat looking system.
S.
Still got the hairy knee? :D
It ain’t going anywhere! :)
most of that is not there now tho;)
most of that is not there now tho;)
Truth from Struth.
Thats the ‘before’ pic. ;)
jandl100
31-12-2018, 09:42
:popcorn:
:popcorn:
Haha, he's a tease isn't he ;)
I'll alleviate the suspense.
Now...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181231/159991ef39fdb4a9fa6c69b492151224.jpg
Haha, he's a tease isn't he ;)
probably on the bones :eyebrows:
Busy posting on his Oppo 203 mod thread! :)
Quiet new year at home (thru choice) so catching up with all things AOS.
jandl100
31-12-2018, 19:44
Hmm, Gaz must be saving up the Grand Disclosure pic for his 7,000th post. :zzz:
I hear he's flogged all his tat and gone for one of these new-fangled all in ones:
https://i.imgur.com/M2dDAhR.jpg
With its own dinky speakers. Thanks to modern technology they are designed to sound best sat on the floor behind the couch, possibly with a vase full of flowers on them.
going for an all in one myself soon...so there:ner:
I hear he's flogged all his tat and gone for one of these new-fangled all in ones:
https://i.imgur.com/M2dDAhR.jpg
With its own dinky speakers. Thanks to modern technology they are designed to sound best sat on the floor behind the couch, possibly with a vase full of flowers on them.
:lol:
Made me giggle 'dat.
Might even sound half decent given a (re)listen!
Remember coming home from school going to my mates house and playing Kings of the Wild Frontier on the radiogram whilst his folks weren't home!)
Sounded terrific!
:lol:
Made me giggle 'dat.
Might even sound half decent given a (re)listen!
!
No, it would be shockingly poor - but we knew no better back then and thankfully good music does not need hi-fidelity in order to work its magic.
RobbieGong
31-12-2018, 22:46
I hear he's flogged all his tat and gone for one of these new-fangled all in ones:
https://i.imgur.com/M2dDAhR.jpg
With its own dinky speakers. Thanks to modern technology they are designed to sound best sat on the floor behind the couch, possibly with a vase full of flowers on them.
That music centre certainly brings back some great memories.
Older cousin had the exact same one that he got from the catalogue :)
He added an additonal pair of speakers, Wharfedale Dovedales I think they were.
That thing sounded sweet to my ears back in the late '70's - happy days and looked damn nice too, I loved it :)
hornucopia
31-12-2018, 23:09
....or you could have had a Hacker, with (matching front) extension amp to make it stereo.
Much sought after nowadays!
Note the sliders! My first amp had those -forget (at the moment!) the name. (It WAS 1970!)
Enjoyed my M2Tech Young Dac for a good few years, was an upgrade to my Rega dac I had at the time.
Before that it was a couple of Stan Beresford dacs.
Sold the Young here and bought a PS Audio Directstream, great sounding bit of kit and unusual in that it runs from an FPGA, not a traditional Dac chip.
As such, its software programmable and its creator Ted Smith writes new improved firmware which PS Audio gives away for free.
https://www.audiostream.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/22614psaudio_0.jpg
All the connections you could ever need, including a direct ethernet input, which lets you use it as a streamer for Roon, Spotify etc.
Pretty cool.
https://i.imgur.com/W2HTRQL.jpg
Big deal for me here was I had fitted an i2s output board to my Oppo 203, which lets me use the dac's best sounding connection.
Here's me testing the output into the dac - all good.
https://i.imgur.com/U7xpNzD.jpg
With the free software upgrades which get more and more out the dacs hardware this one will see me out, no desire to change love how it sounds.
jandl100
02-01-2019, 16:51
Nice looking DAC :thumbsup: but it does annoy me when DACs only have one example of each type of digital input. :(
I want multiple co-ax and TOSLINK inputs!! What's so hard about that? :scratch:
Next thing I was wanting to do was finalise my vinyl setup.
Had one of Alan Firebottle's terrific valve output phono stages, but I had a "cunning plan" for my LP playback... :eyebrows:
My Dac has two i2s inputs, one of which was being used by the Oppo bluray player.
So one spare.
Why is this relevant to a phonostage?
I sold the Firebottle phonostage here on AOS and put the proceeds towards a rather unique (I think) product from, again, PS Audio.
They stopped production of these, but with my matching dac it was a no brainer to try and pick one up.
Was lucky enough to get one from the last shipment sent to the UK, phew!
The Nuwave Phono converter.
Heavy solid thing, about the width of a Cyrus box but half the height.
Sits quite inconspicuous on the rack, quite small in front profile but very deep:
https://i.imgur.com/1uzqXMt.jpg
Nice bit of kit this, some proper caps in there and a toroid transformer for the power supply:
http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2014d/IMG_5341ss.jpg
As well as a standard phonostage analogue out to your amp, it has a few extra tricks up its sleeve, or rather on its back panel:
https://i.imgur.com/P4jsS4I.jpg
Digital Outputs.
As well as the normal analogue out to your amp it can convert your analogue to digital 'on the fly' and send it to the Dac from it's digital outputs. In my case I take advantage of the i2s connection as my dac has the matching input.
You'll notice it has a set of Phono inputs AND a second analogue input?
That means anything you plug into it, FM Tuner, cassette deck or even a Reel to Reel, can be digitised and sent to the Dac, OR (from the USB output) sent to your laptop/pc as a digital file copy.
Pretty cool.
You have a lot of control over the digital side of things through its menu system, where you can output the digital as 24/192 PCM or single/double rate DSD.
So double rate DSD file copies of your records, nice.
PS Audio recommends 24/96, but haven't had a chance to play with this feature yet.
From the Menu you can:
Set playback to mono/stereo and flip the phase, for those odd recordings that don't sound right to you.
https://i.imgur.com/KLB6Dzd.jpg
Set the digital output - DSD or PCM as well as toggle the USB output on or off (reduces electrical noise apparently)
https://i.imgur.com/iZ08oaV.jpg
Further tweak the output settings:
https://i.imgur.com/eKRQKvX.jpg
You can adjust the gain to suit your vinyl setup (there are also dipswitches on the back panel for cartridge loading)
https://i.imgur.com/vBUPB7o.jpg
Theres other things in the menu, like adjust brightness, check firmware version, set display timeout and some other stuff.
One thing I'd like to be able to do is dim the PS Audio logo like you can do with the dac, its very bright!
Sits quite neat next to the turntables PSU and under the deck itself, matches the Dac of course.
https://i.imgur.com/Jdbgg2X.jpg
Chuffed I was able to get one before they were gone for good, don't see them up for grabs 2nd hand much.
A no brainer with the i2s connection to the dac, (which sounds really really good) as well as the facility to digitise my LP collection, which is a project I'll get into when I have the time.
Its well reviewed too, so don't need to look elsewhere and can call vinyl done.
https://darko.audio/2013/11/ps-audio-nuwave-phono-converter-part-1-no-pre-amplifier/
https://darko.audio/2014/01/ps-audio-nuwave-phono-converter-part-2-digital-playback/
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ps-audio-nuwave-phono-converter/
All good stuff.
hornucopia
02-01-2019, 22:11
Brilliant! Wish I'd thought of that (no LPs now!)
watch out for all the responses from die-hard valve/phono fans?
If you want to reduce the glare, cut out a square of cellophane -or similar - to cover the sign?
Trust gaz to go left field. I bravo
Firebottle
03-01-2019, 08:41
..... and bought a PS Audio Directstream, great sounding bit of kit and unusual in that it runs from an FPGA, not a traditional Dac chip.
As such, its software programmable and its creator Ted Smith writes new improved firmware which PS Audio gives away for free.
https://www.audiostream.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/22614psaudio_0.jpg
Now that is a brilliant choice Gaz, another manufacturer going down the FPGA route with unique software and filtering.
Even more reason to get up to yours for a listen :thumbsup:
Firebottle
03-01-2019, 08:43
I want multiple co-ax and TOSLINK inputs!! What's so hard about that? :scratch:
Buy a Bel Canto, at least they have two SPDIF inputs.
On the other hand just buy another Topping and select inputs on the RVC, much cheaper :)
Now that is a brilliant choice Gaz, another manufacturer going down the FPGA route with unique software and filtering.
Even more reason to get up to yours for a listen :thumbsup:
Absolutely! :)
Be getting the Scottish Mafia (and honorary members) in for a get together when the last of the upgrades are in place.
Be good to meet you Alan.
Extra boxes over this neat solution, but decent A-D converters must be around, for the pro market if little else, that the phono stage could be plugged into? Meridian used to make one and a friend uses one from his beloved Luxman tuner to his digital preamp - he went mad on interconnects from Transparent though ;)
Extra boxes over this neat solution, but decent A-D converters must be around, for the pro market if little else
They've been around for years. I've still got a Kenwood one from back when I had a brief flirtation with Laserdisc.
Extra boxes over this neat solution, but decent A-D converters must be around, for the pro market if little else, that the phono stage could be plugged into? Meridian used to make one and a friend uses one from his beloved Luxman tuner to his digital preamp - he went mad on interconnects from Transparent though ;)
Yep - I use a Focusrite Saffire Pro24 mixer for LP ripping - does a fabulous job :)
Designed for musicians and has A-D and D-A converters and a wide range of digital and analogue in/outs:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/focusrite-saffire-pro-24
Dead cheap now on ebay ....
If you did not want to digitise your turntable signal would I be correct in assuming your turntable interconnect would go in the phono rca's and out to your amp would be with those balanced outputs?
I have heard PS Audio at a show, was very impressed and would have loved to hear their monos in isolation.
If you did not want to digitise your turntable signal would I be correct in assuming your turntable interconnect would go in the phono rca's and out to your amp would be with those balanced outputs?
I have heard PS Audio at a show, was very impressed and would have loved to hear their monos in isolation.
either balanced or single ended out afaik, plus the i2s
either balanced or single ended out afaik, plus the i2s
Just had a second look at the rear photo, got it. :doh: Thanks.
If you did not want to digitise your turntable signal would I be correct in assuming your turntable interconnect would go in the phono rca's and out to your amp would be with those balanced outputs?
I have heard PS Audio at a show, was very impressed and would have loved to hear their monos in isolation.
Yup, that’s the way to do it. (Or rca) unless you go digital.
The BHK mono’s can drive big IRS V’s with ease, so plenty of oomph!
Frazeur1
03-01-2019, 17:50
I have heard PS Audio at a show, was very impressed and would have loved to hear their monos in isolation.
But then you would hear nothing at all, unless they hummed a little....;)
But then you would hear nothing at all, unless they hummed a little....;)
:D
Trust gaz to go left field. I bravo
Agree it's 'left field' and it does look like a fine piece of kit. But I can't see the point in digitising an analogue signal for it to be immediately converted again back to analogue. No doubt I am missing something here.
sq225917
03-01-2019, 21:51
You mean you take a perfectly good analogue recording and digitize it !
Heathen..... ;-)
Agree it's 'left field' and it does look like a fine piece of kit. But I can't see the point in digitising an analogue signal for it to be immediately converted again back to analogue. No doubt I am missing something here.
Does it not do all the RIAA EQ in the digital domain then? I thought that was the point? If not then I don't know either.
Does it not do all the RIAA EQ in the digital domain then? I thought that was the point? If not then I don't know either.
Ah - I thought the equalisation was being done in the analogue domain.
If the equalisation is done in the digital domain then I can believe the equalisation could adhere more closely/accurately to the RIAA curve, and the two channels could be more closely matched/balanced. But even if an analogue output is used, one is still converting to digital, doing the equalisation and then converting back to analogue.
I can see advantages and disadvantages.
Looking forward to hearing it sometime
You mean you take a perfectly good analogue recording and digitize it !
Heathen..... ;-)
Do they still record in analogue these days or are tracks recorded digitally then put onto vinyl/cd/download etc.
I know Fleetwood Mac record everything except the drums digitally, cos Mick told me a couple of years ago, maybe other bands are the same ?
The digital stuff runs in parallell to it being a ‘normal’ analogue phonostage.
So which one do you use...?
well, I think it ‘depends’.
Assuming it’s a good sounding thing on both (which it is) and can be used as a baseline for comparison:
Using it’s digital outputs it comes down to the quality of your Dac/ digital cable
Using its analogue outputs comes down to the quality of your Pre/ interconnect.
Really your comparing the output stage of the phono with the output stage of your Dac.
...and the hundreds of things that come before it.
So really, again, ‘it depends’ would be my thoughts.
To me, it’s whatever sounds the best in the context of the rest of the kit it’s being played with.
I’ve not stuck in the mud regarding either method, if it sounds good it is good.
With their Dac PS Audio got a lot of grumbles initially about how it ‘corrupted and manipulated’ the native digital stream?
Everything you plug into it gets converted to 20x DSD then low pass filtered through an output transformer.
Like always, its not just what you do, but the way that you do it.
I feel the same with the Phono converter...it’s different from the norm, but implemented really well.
Had a chat with my Dealer about which is the preferred way to hear your records, and he says its all down to the quality of your Pre.
Can output analogue normally to your preamp, or ‘stream’ (or record) what’s coming off the LP digitally, up to 24/192 pcm or double rate DSD.
The Digital stuffs groovy for sure, but analogue output of it is supposed to be its best output, IF your Pre is transparent enough.
The last bit of information that made me pull the trigger on it was that every review I’d read of it talking about digitising LPs was that there was no difference between listening to the digital copy and hearing the record itself being played.
A nice neat vinyl box of tricks, that can really do its thing with the matching dac.
Looking forward to hearing it sometime
You can still buy one, and for anyone else who fancies going down this route. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-Audio-NuWave-Phono-Converter-Silver/232969291491?epid=1463083112&hash=item363e0d46e3:g:OugAAOSwZKJb3FF-:rk:6:pf:0
Onto amps:
Always been a solid state guy, coming from various Richer Sound specials, to the Pioneer A400 then after discovering forums in I moved on to Rega amps.
Then something happened.
I had a chance to hear some superb home brew valve amps at the Owston DIY weekend.
Decided that the valve was the sound for me, and I set about replacing my then Rega Brio-R with a valve amp.
Sold the Rega and bought this:
https://i.imgur.com/pmHNXlb.jpg
Chinese brand Image Audio i65 intergrated. Bling bling!
Was taken by the looks and it was an improvement over the Brio R.
Good sound, but very far from what I heard at Owston.
From memory it used 6550 power and 12AX7 signal valves.
Had fun valve rolling, swapped out the generic 6550's with a set of Svetlana "winged C's" which were only a little bit better.
Bit disappointing tbh, expected a big improvement from what I had read.
Unfortunately, the amp was eating valves for breakfast and it was starting to get expensive for not a lot of return.
Turned out it didn't like running at UK voltage and the amp was struggling.
That and the constantly moving bias for the power tubes made me think I'd made a bad call with this amp.
And I had.
Eventually, the amp went pop, when one of the transformers died.
The output transformers were small and having opened it up to take a look inside, tiny power supply and there were several resistors close to burnout...
Ended up skipping it, it was a heavy beast and wasn't worth getting repaired and mailing out.
So lesson learned, good valve amps don't come cheap and weren't worth the grief...
So what to do?
My mind kept going back to that sound I heard at Owston?
The meet was run by Nick Gorham, and populated by the guys from his Audio Talk forum.
Expert valve amp builders, nice guys and really knew their stuff.
Particularly Nick.
Had a chat with him and I ended up asking him to built me a 300B based SET power amp.
Now were talking!
https://i.imgur.com/3L9GTEp.jpg
8 watts a side, and partnered with the Densen DM20 Preamp, (The shiney black thing with big gold knobs sat underneath, which I sent back to Densen for full service) sounded like that Owston sound.
A great match.
Nick does make exceedingly good amps!
The amp came with Electro Harmonix 300B valves, which sounded good but I wanted to get the best out the amp.
So I set about trying different 300Bs, all can sound quite different, but happily I've settled on the type I'll stay with and hit that magic spot for me.
Here's how that went:
Stock Electro Harmonix 300B
https://i.imgur.com/zmkF7d6.jpg
Good sound, but holding the amps performance back, came in about 70 quid a pair I think.
Decided to go "all in" and got a set of the new Elrog 300Bs.
Some dubious reports about reliability on some American forums, but took a chance I'd be ok.
Comparison with the stock EH valves:
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/fe8abaae577a50702ce84bfe3efcaede_zpsf4slo0sz.jpg
And in the amp:
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Kit%20pics/Nick%20Amp/20160930_184805_zpshgneqaaf.jpg
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/Kit%20pics/Nick%20Amp/20160930_190819_zpstiua9j2q.jpg
These sounded fantastic, a million miles away from the stock valves, and showing more of what Nick's amp was capable of...wow.
Well, wow for 7 months at least.
One of them popped within the warranty period of 12 months.
Were the stories of unreliability with these new valves true?
I arranged for a 2nd set to be shipped from Germany, great customer service from the Company.
The new set were "improved" to give greater reliability, cool, so in the second set went.
Sublime sound.
For 4 months. :(
Reliability issues not ironed out yet imo, and they weren't cheap either, so arranged a refund less the time I had on the valves, which was fair enough.
Shame...as they looked gorgeous lighting up the room at night. (Other 300Bs don’t glow like the Elrogs)
Moved on to the "next best" from what I'd read, the KR 300B "Balloon" valve.
https://i.imgur.com/9XCwbwc.jpg
Not much difference in sound quality between these and the Elrogs, and they were a little bit cheaper too
Very happy with these.
My final valves...?
Uhm, no. :)
The next ones are.
Still had that thought that there was more to get out of my power amp, I'd tried various smaller signal tubes but didn't find any better than the Tung Sol's I tried first so kept with them.
By this point I was in a place where I was wanting to put my "final" system in place, had moved on from the equipment really and was now all about enjoying the music not chasing the hifi for me.
I'd looked into so many 300B valves and even tried a few in my own amp.
I kept reading about the "unobtanium" Western Electric 300Bs at eye watering prices as being the holy grail of these valves.
Then I read that the valve company Psvane went back to the original materials and manufacturing methods of Western Electric and were producing an exact replica of the original 300B valve.
Was curious, but yeah...sure...marketing's a wonderful thing isn't it?
Then I read THIS:
https://www.dagogo.com/psvane-we-11-replica-300b-review/ :eek: (https://www.dagogo.com/psvane-we-11-replica-300b-review/)
https://www.dagogo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PsvaneReplica300B-3.jpg
(https://www.dagogo.com/psvane-we-11-replica-300b-review/)The review (set up with Peter Qvortrup) reviews and compares the Psvane 1:1 replicas to original WE reissues from 1978, 88 and 98.
Bottom line the Psvane replicas were closest to the 1978 western Electric originals, more so than the actual 88 and 98 ones. :eek:
Ok, think I'm done with 300B valve rolling now!
Bought a new set, which now have about 100odd hours on them now and already they are noticeably better than both the KR and even the Elrog.
Wonderful sounding things, beautiful and have grabbed the amp by the scruff of the neck.
Few pics to sign off, just to say that its been a bit of a journey for me amp wise, some bad calls and lessons learned along the way but very happy.
https://i.imgur.com/dfzKqKy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oKzB5AO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/X06N0cG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4KnSsq9.jpg
But the power amp is just half the equation for a pre/power system.
To complete my "final" amp setup, I've turned to my Densen Preamp now.
That's now sitting in my second system, but more on that in another post, I've prattled on enough here. :)
Ali Tait
13-01-2019, 12:56
They must be good indeed if they’re better than the KR’s Gaz, look forward to hearing them.
Yup,
they are keepers Ali.
Troops over once everything's settled in.
Sherwood
13-01-2019, 13:44
..... and the price?
Not cheap, just under a grand with vat and delivery.
Got mine from Hifi Collective, couple of sets cheaper on EBay but prefer to go “official” to avoid fakes.
Sherwood
13-01-2019, 14:17
Not cheap.
Not telling?
Not telling?
lol, not at all.
Edited my post.
all looking spiffing old bean :D
Sounding good to me old fruit. :)
Troops across when the new stuffs all bedded in, its been a while.
Sherwood
13-01-2019, 14:41
lol, not at all.
Edited my post.
Would I get any change from £2,000 for the SET? :eek:
Sounding good to me old fruit. :)
Troops across when the new stuffs all bedded in, its been a while.
nae bother.. look forward to it. hope im well that day :)
Would I get any change from £2,000 for the SET? :eek:
:rfl::rfl:
Would I get any change from £2,000 for the SET? :eek:
uhm....wish I could say yes?
Got fed up buying, selling and side-grading.
in the spirit of “do it once and do it right” I took the nuclear option.
Was happy to live on toast n beans for 6 months...money saved in the long run old chap! :)
nae bother.. look forward to it. hope im well that day :)
Happy to sort a day round about that Grant.
Was good having you over last time.
I keep getting e-mails from Western Electric about their imminent 300B re-issue, and how to pre-order them.
Will see what the world thinks of them before getting interested. If at all. They don't seem to want to give up with the idea of making them.
Anyway, glad the Psvane's are doing the business for you.
uhm....wish I could say yes?
Got fed up buying, selling and side-grading.
in the spirit of “do it once and do it right” I took the nuclear option.
Was happy to live on toast n beans for 6 months...money saved in the long run old chap! :)
Just think how long you'd have been on beans and toast for if, say, AudioNote had produced it instead of Nick?;)
System's looking good, mate! Must swing by for a wee listen next time I'm up:cool:
Marco.
Commercial... *Shudder*
McIntosh money, easy.
Welcome mate,
just give us a shout, can sort summit when your back in the old country.
Just think how long you'd have been on beans and toast for if, say, AudioNote had produced it instead of Nick?;)
System's looking good, mate! Must swing by for a wee listen next time I'm up:cool:
Marco.
Will defo be in touch then, as I intend to take the Brabster on a few road trips this year... Will see if my gangsta car stereo can compete with your system:eek::D
Marco.
Sherwood
13-01-2019, 15:29
:rfl::rfl:
Of course I meant £2,000 per channel!
OK,
so thought I'd blab a bit about cables and how I got to my final setup.
*SPOILER ALERT*
Cables do make a difference. :)
DIGITAL CABLES
Prior to getting my current Dac I ran a Logitech Transporter, which though it had a great Dac inside I preferred it as a transport into my Young Dac at the time.
Was always on the lookout for the "best" way to hookup the Transporter to a Dac, so I spent a long time trying different options, Optical vs RCA, which cables, even BNC and XLR connections and different brands of cables.
Looking back I think this played a big part in my getting a bit jaded with the whole system merry-go-round "thing"and I got a little bit fed up with all the sidegrading I was doing!
Turned out XLR was the best connection for me, tried all sorts of cables some of which are below.
And THEN it turned out (Dac dependant...) that i2s was far and away the best digital connection.
Who'da thunk it!?
So it's what i use nowadays.
RCA cables
Linn Black > Tellerium Q Black > (the infamous) SLIC interconnect > Brian's Klotz (Better than the SLIC) > Wireworld.
With the new Preamp, its XLR if I can.
https://i.imgur.com/IgRqcFO.jpghttps://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1579293-linn-black-interconnect-cables.jpg https://i.imgur.com/DDNB6l5.jpg
Think we know what Brian's Klotz cables look like, so here's what I finally settled on, best I've ever heard.
Spend more time nowadays on American high end forums and Wireworld kept coming up in some pretty esoteric systems.
Wanted to keep my Valve power amp (with its big transformers) a distance away from my valve input Pre-Amp, so needed a 1m RCA.
I wanted to know I wasn't limiting the potential of my amps, so went for one of these.
Not the cheapest, but worth every penny imo.
https://i.imgur.com/0cQmVB4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CLNNm25.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ne8naWl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8sswWPz.jpg
So thats was the connection between Preamp and power amp done, had to be RCA as my Poweramp doesn;t have XLR's.
Again, didn't want to limit the performance of my Dac connecting to the Preamp, so again went with the same cable, this time in an XLR connection.
Thankfully I could get away with an 0.5M length here, which took the sting out the cost a fair bit.
https://i.imgur.com/8hHR6pd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TVUO4Kw.jpg
I tell you, these cables are built to last, but I needed another XLR cable to connect my PS Audio phonostage (shown earlier in the thread) to the Preamp.
But I needed a 1m length, and as vinyl (sorry!) is now a secondary source compared to the digital stuff I thought twice about spending what I did on a second 1m Wireworld cable.
Reality's gotta kick in at some point, but thankfully the Dealer I bought all my PS Audio gear from, Igloo Audio, do their own XLR cable which Peter@Igloo was happy to throw in a superb XLR cable for free with my new Preamp.
School of thought about balanced XLR cables, given their "Pro" nature, that they aren't as susceptible to the problems of single ended RCA cables.
And whilst this is true in part, they certainly don't all sound the same!
I tried probably 4 or 5 different XLR cables from Bluejeans, DH Labs, Morrow Audio and Mogami when looking for the best connection from my Transporter to Dac...and differences could easily be heard.
BUT
As vinyl was secondary to my listening habits I decided that I didn't need to spend Wireworld money to call this one done.
The new phonostage had an i2s connection to my Dac which is very cool, especially for ripping vinyl to 24/96, the PS Audio phonostage's analogue outs sounded better into my new Preamp than digital i2s connection via my Dac.
The new Pre's very transparent and it's letting the quality of the phonostage's output stage show how good it actually is.
So needed an XLR cable here, but didn't want to break the bank.
As it happened, Igloo Audio sell their own XLR cable assembled from modified Neutrik/ Mogami stock parts, and it measures superbly in terms of impedance and capacitance
Being sold as "absolutely transparent" and Details here:
http://silvermogwai.com/
Getting one for free, and even before the new Pre and cables I LOVED the sound of my vinyl rig hooked up with the Firebottle phonostage even with Klotz MC5000 cable into my old Densen pre...WAY more than good enough.
The new set up is a lot,lot better.
Vinyl...done.
Was going to get my SME V rewired with Kondo silver cable...naa, not necessary.
https://i.imgur.com/2YymnDC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/11H2zNc.jpg
So thats interconnect cables done and dusted then. :thumbsup:
Next up, New Adventures in (powering) Hifi.
Mains cables 'n such.
BTW The new Pre was designed by this guy:
(Designed for Constellation, Infinity, Infinity class-A, Conrad-Johnson, and Marantz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHl8F9amyY4&t=1s
brian2957
02-02-2019, 17:43
Good post mate . I'm really looking forward to getting over to yours next week . Your system's going through so many changes in such a short space of time . It's really hard to keep up :)
Good stuff. Always interesting reading your various 'mutterings' on audio, Gaz-baz... So, I remember asking your somewhere, I forget where, what your new valve preamp was, and so don't know if you replied or not.
So, I'll ask again here, since it's your Gallery thread... What is it, and could we have some pics of the beastie?:cool:
Marco.
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/0a/0ae29ecd16628a34cb34f6db8b379090500a76ee679aa21f71 fcee00c81ed3ce.jpg
Lol... Ok, but when you reveal it, I'd like to know what the big secret was - and it better be good!:trust:
;)
Marco.
So...couple of things have happened, time for an update.
Since getting the PS Audio dac I've became a bit of a fanboy of theirs, and wanting to make the most of my SET valve power amp I looked to upgrade my Densen Preamp.
An awesome bit of kit, sent it back to Densen for full service and recapping (and they replaced the two transformers as well) so sounded wonderful.
But PS Audio did a matching preamp to the Dac, and by all accounts it was something really special sounding.
Information on it fromPS Audio's website here:
https://www.psaudio.com/products/bhk-signature-preamplifier/
Short answer, wow. :eek:
Significant upgrade over the Densen and lets me brings out the best of the rest of the system.
Some pics:
Double boxed and well packaged...
https://i.imgur.com/MFydlgX.jpg
Front:
https://i.imgur.com/5zqpSAj.jpg
Rear Panel - LOTS of input options. Balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA for each input
https://i.imgur.com/BNjbqpN.jpg
Notice that hatch on the top panel, the one with the two screws?
This comes away and lets you get access to the two valves on it's input stage - PS Audio encourage valve rolling,for myself I stuck with the recommended types that the amps designer Bascom H King prefers.
Good enough for me!
Really high quality caps and components in this thing - its really top notch stuff.
https://i.imgur.com/alVcC6K.jpg
In place with the matching Dac:
https://i.imgur.com/30VphTZ.jpg
You tease. That's not some pics.. Looks great
Ah more pic.. Ti's a fair chunk of gear mate. I fancied one of their bits of kit too but was too rich for me. Think it was the phono
You tease. That's not some pics.. Looks great
Ah more pic.. Ti's a fair chunk of gear mate. I fancied one of their bits of kit too but was too rich for me. Think it was the phono
Was updating the thread as you replied. :)
Think you were quite taken with the Phono Grant, but you got one that did the similar digital chicanery I think?
Need to get over to yours, have your Power Inspired regen to return (not to mention try some great coffee and discuss coffee machines!)
Was updating the thread as you replied. :)
Think you were quite taken with the Phono Grant, but you got one that did the similar digital chicanery I think?
Need to get over to yours, have your Power Inspired regen to return (not to mention try some great coffee and discuss coffee machines!)Anytime.. Yup it does digi on fly etc. Works quite well at its price point. About 500/550 I think it was.
I'm like u going more toward digital all time
Without wanting to sound like a bad American Infomercial...but wait, there's more.
As much as upgrading my Dac and preamp were game changers, this one was far more fundamental.
Systems completely changed now, pretty sure I'm really hearing what the various bits and bobs I've upgraded are capable of now.
Endgame stuff for sure.
So, different schools of thought about the hierarchy of system upgrades - whats the best thing to upgrade, where should you allocate most resources...etc.
Source first vs optimise the room vs get the best speakers and work back.
Components been upgraded and I'm calling them done, so what was next?
Source is sorted...and my rooms OK no complaints...so look at speakers?
I have the Eddingdales, Colin Topps' amazing box speakers - best box speakers I've heard and give massive bang for buck.
Commercial from new talking silly money for this quality.
Fantastic...box...speakers.
See where I'm going with this?
Bigman80
20-08-2019, 19:04
Without wanting to sound like a bad American Infomercial...but wait, there's more.
As much as upgrading my Dac and preamp were game changers, this one was far more fundamental.
Systems completely changed now, pretty sure I'm really hearing what the various bits and bobs I've upgraded are capable of now.
Endgame stuff for sure.
So, different schools of thought about the hierarchy of system upgrades - whats the best thing to upgrade, where should you allocate most resources...etc.
Source first vs optimise the room vs get the best speakers and work back.
Components been upgraded and I'm calling them done, so what was next?
Source is sorted...and my rooms OK no complaints...so look at speakers?
I have the Eddingdales, Colin Topps' amazing box speakers - best box speakers I've heard and give massive bang for buck.
Commercial from new talking silly money for this quality.
Fantastic...box...speakers.
See where I'm going with this?Oh dear lol. Got some open baffles have we?
Without wanting to sound like a bad American Infomercial...but wait, there's more.
As much as upgrading my Dac and preamp were game changers, this one was far more fundamental.
Systems completely changed now, pretty sure I'm really hearing what the various bits and bobs I've upgraded are capable of now.
Endgame stuff for sure.
So, different schools of thought about the hierarchy of system upgrades - whats the best thing to upgrade, where should you allocate most resources...etc.
Source first vs optimise the room vs get the best speakers and work back.
Components been upgraded and I'm calling them done, so what was next?
Source is sorted...and my rooms OK no complaints...so look at speakers?
I have the Eddingdales, Colin Topps' amazing box speakers - best box speakers I've heard and give massive bang for buck.
Commercial from new talking silly money for this quality.
Fantastic...box...speakers.
See where I'm going with this?I dare say they can be TOPPed Gaz, but it will be difficult. The edi gdales are great and take on all comers
Yep, it does sound like a Bastanis moment, the very definition of ‘curates egg’ performance in my experience....
The Edingdales were perfect with that amp, and the amp limits your choice a bit, so I'm going to say even better Edingdales :)
Naa.
Never got on with open baffles Ollie.
With an 8/9 watts SET amp, it was something I had thought about?
Great as the Eddingdales were (at 94dB efficiency) after the recent upgrades, turns out they were the bottleneck holding my system back.
The funny thing is that changing the speakers wasn't planned and happened completely by accident.
:eek:
Good story:
My SET power amp was back with its designer getting some TLC last couple of weeks and at the weekend there I drove down to collect it.
A mate lived 40minutes away so took the opportunity to pop across and see him.
Plumbed my amp into his system to hear how it sounded with his kit, particularly on his Bastanis open baffle speakers.
Unexpected results on listening, not a great match, but I happened to notice a couple of massive wooden cabinets in the corner which were, he let me know, up for Sale.
Speakers I had been curious about since reading of them in magazines back in the day, but never thought I'd get a chance to hear.
These were as minty as you could ever want, recently refoamed and had a tweeter crossover mod to improve them done.
So ideal really...just one of life's weird coincidences that sometimes happen.
Impulse H2 horn speakers - A review from Jimmy Hughes (remember him?) from back in the day.
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/impulse/images/H2_ap_1.gif
And another:
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/impulse/images/H2_WHF_0592.gif
So we hooked up the H2's to my SET amp and sat back to listen to some music.
Some things just "work", and the sound coming from the horn speakers with my SET amp was jaw dropping.
Never heard my amp sound like this, the scale, clarity the detail and the grunt...shocking how good it was.
Bought them on the spot with the proviso they worked as well in my room at home.
And they did.
Never thought I'd say this but I'm moving on from the Eddingdales.
Game changer for me, amazed how good they make my gear sound played through them, my last speakers short of a lottery win - which I think I'd need to better whats hitting my ears.
Valves and horn speakers, some things just "work" I guess.
Some pics in situ:
Still playing around with placement etc and trying to get them dialed into the room but great as is.
Eddingdales are huge speakers, but...https://i.imgur.com/dpH4w78.jpg
Bass horn comes out the bottom of the speaker, and spiked directly into the carpet they weren't working properly in the bass.
So sat them on some slabs to allow the gap at the bottom to let the bass work - much better now.
https://i.imgur.com/OQi6A4k.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dCe2RIg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3ZCo3t6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/msnnnPz.jpg
Happy chocolate button, best sound at home by a country mile.
Depending on wether I sell the vinyl or not, one more stab at upgrading the digital front end then I'm done I think.
Happy days, just lets me enjoy my music better which is the point really of having a good system. :thumbsup:
Well done Garry. The Impulse H2s are one of the very few folded horn-loaded speaker designs I can listen to. A friend of mine has a pair, tri-wired to an Audio Innovations 500 amplifier.
Now you and Audio Al will be able to compare notes. :)
Great things the h2's. Surprised they worked so well tho. Guess I better get saving lol
Great things the h2's. Surprised they worked so well tho. Guess I better get saving lol
Was surprised the open baffles didn’t work so well with my SET amp, on paper should be a great match?
Funny old game this hifi lark, innit?
Wow - glad they're doing it for you. Lovely looking setup, too. :thumbsup:
Bigman80
21-08-2019, 06:31
Naa.
Never got on with open baffles Ollie.
With an 8/9 watts SET amp, it was something I had thought about?
Great as the Eddingdales were (at 94dB efficiency) after the recent upgrades, turns out they were the bottleneck holding my system back.
The funny thing is that changing the speakers wasn't planned and happened completely by accident.
:eek:
Good story:
My SET power amp was back with its designer getting some TLC last couple of weeks and at the weekend there I drove down to collect it.
A mate lived 40minutes away so took the opportunity to pop across and see him.
Plumbed my amp into his system to hear how it sounded with his kit, particularly on his Bastanis open baffle speakers.
Unexpected results on listening, not a great match, but I happened to notice a couple of massive wooden cabinets in the corner which were, he let me know, up for Sale.
Speakers I had been curious about since reading of them in magazines back in the day, but never thought I'd get a chance to hear.
These were as minty as you could ever want, recently refoamed and had a tweeter crossover mod to improve them done.
So ideal really...just one of life's weird coincidences that sometimes happen.
Impulse H2 horn speakers - A review from Jimmy Hughes (remember him?) from back in the day.
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/impulse/images/H2_ap_1.gif
And another:
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/impulse/images/H2_WHF_0592.gif
So we hooked up the H2's to my SET amp and sat back to listen to some music.
Some things just "work", and the sound coming from the horn speakers with my SET amp was jaw dropping.
Never heard my amp sound like this, the scale, clarity the detail and the grunt...shocking how good it was.
Bought them on the spot with the proviso they worked as well in my room at home.
And they did.
Never thought I'd say this but I'm moving on from the Eddingdales.
Game changer for me, amazed how good they make my gear sound played through them, my last speakers short of a lottery win - which I think I'd need to better whats hitting my ears.
Valves and horn speakers, some things just "work" I guess.
Some pics in situ:
Still playing around with placement etc and trying to get them dialed into the room but great as is.
Eddingdales are huge speakers, but...https://i.imgur.com/dpH4w78.jpg
Bass horn comes out the bottom of the speaker, and spiked directly into the carpet they weren't working properly in the bass.
So sat them on some slabs to allow the gap at the bottom to let the bass work - much better now.
https://i.imgur.com/OQi6A4k.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dCe2RIg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3ZCo3t6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/msnnnPz.jpg
Happy chocolate button, best sound at home by a country mile.
Depending on wether I sell the vinyl or not, one more stab at upgrading the digital front end then I'm done I think.
Happy days, just lets me enjoy my music better which is the point really of having a good system. [emoji106]Blinking heck, if anyone wants a set of H2s, there will be none left below Scotland lol.
Got to say, I'm really surprised you've moved on from the eddis but sometimes you just find a better match or hit a bit of synergy and it's time to move on.
Well done on the speakers and your room looks great BTW
Now, how much are those eddy's........? Lol
Ali Tait
21-08-2019, 06:56
Great as the H2’s are, I find the Bastanis better still in my room/ system. Different matter with Gary’s amp though, they were made to be together. Synergy with a capital S!
I’m quite familiar with that amp having heard it on quite a few occasions, so I know how good it is- it’s the best 300b SE amp I’ve ever heard.
Never heard it sound like it does on the H2’s though. Jaw dropping is an over used phrase but an appropriate one in this instance I think.
Ali Tait
21-08-2019, 06:57
Are you keeping your vinyl setup now Gary? :-)
brian2957
21-08-2019, 09:37
System's looking fab mate . Those H2s must be huge because the Edingdales are large speakers and they look smallish compared to the H2s .
I'll have to get over to yours soon for a listen :)
hornucopia
21-08-2019, 09:39
Big? That's a matter of opinion!
Ali Tait
21-08-2019, 10:11
System's looking fab mate . Those H2s must be huge because the Edingdales are large speakers and they look smallish compared to the H2s .
I'll have to get over to yours soon for a listen :)
Aye, you need to hear these Brian, just lovely.
a bake off beckons..pizza and chips for me:eyebrows:
Ali Tait
21-08-2019, 11:38
LOL aye, board meeting time.
brian2957
21-08-2019, 13:47
Aye , be good before the winter sets in :)
Board meeting coming up Gents,
‘You need to near this speaker amp combo.
This ones gonna be a good ‘un.
Pizza and chips for Grant naturally.... :-)
sounds good... i can bring my scooter:D
killie99
24-08-2019, 13:51
H2’s are great, I had a pair for over 10 years and replaced them with Taus. Sold them and still regret it. I’ll buy another pair one day.
In other News...
The games afoot.
Last piece of the puzzle dropping soon, then time for that Mafia Board meeting, been a while lots has changed.
https://i.imgur.com/jJEvzXL.jpg
hornucopia
18-10-2019, 15:39
H2’s are great, I had a pair for over 10 years and replaced them with Taus. Sold them and still regret it. I’ll buy another pair one day.
Often feel the same about my Klipschorns-had for 20 years.
Though having just been in my basement/hi-fi room, all ahew after damp found.....full of stuff piled up! No room for Ks!
In other News...
The games afoot.
Last piece of the puzzle dropping soon, then time for that Mafia Board meeting, been a while lots has changed.
https://i.imgur.com/jJEvzXL.jpgis that the new rega?
Good spot that Man.
At my Dealer today, compared the new Rega Planar 8 and Planar 10.
If my Gorbe with SME V was a Bentley, this things an Ariel Atom.
The 10 is stunning.
But...
could never resist a bargain!
https://i.imgur.com/kZG7bSA.jpg
They both play records...so all good? :thumbsup:
And Bluetooth!
brian2957
19-10-2019, 12:19
:eek::eek::eek:
Dropping end of the month...
stick up some pics when it’s in place.
Thought I was done with vinyl, but then I heard the bloody thing....
Proper crikey!
https://i.imgur.com/OR1UMyj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ysjlq4D.jpg
http://www.rega.co.uk/uploads/pl10-gallery-9.jpg
http://www.rega.co.uk/uploads/pl10-gallery-5.jpg
http://www.rega.co.uk/uploads/pl10-gallery-2.jpg
http://www.rega.co.uk/uploads/pl10-gallery-1.jpg
the fabled P10... looks very expensive:eyebrows:
Ti's a pretty thing, especially the cart
It’s power supply:
Similar vibe to when I “Knight Ridered” my M2Tech Young Dac, liking the look very much.
http://www.the-ear.net/sites/default/files/P10-PSU-in-system.jpg
As a Design Engineer I absolutely love this thing.
Aerospace meets F1.
http://www.the-ear.net/sites/default/files/PL10-no-platter-offside.jpg
Are you keeping your vinyl setup now Gary? :-)
Yes. :)
Ali Tait
22-10-2019, 04:47
Yes. :)
LOL. Looks nice mate, not heard one before.
Is this p10day?
Yes and no... :)
My Planar 10 arrived from Rega yesterday at Loud n Clear Glasgow, but I’ve opted for their resident turntable guru Jon (Mr Audio origami) to give it his expert once over on Saturday, set it up as best as possible for me.
Not much to set up really on a Rega, but I’ll know it’ll be done perfect and as good as it can be by J.
Could pick it up Saturday, but I’m down in London for the weekend, (Blade Runner Live at Albert Hall...https://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/events/2019/blade-runner-live/ so I’ll cope without the Turntable for a few more days. :eek:
Pick it up Monday after work.
Bought a load of those sleeves you sent a link for Grant, been slotting my vinyl in em in anticipation of the big day.
They do make a difference, I like em.
Gonna be a lot of fun again, this vinyl lark.
brian2957
24-10-2019, 21:17
Enjoy your weekend buddy :)
Yes and no... :)
My Planar 10 arrived from Rega yesterday at Loud n Clear Glasgow, but I’ve opted for their resident turntable guru Jon (Mr Audio origami) to give it his expert once over on Saturday, set it up as best as possible for me.
Not much to set up really on a Rega, but I’ll know it’ll be done perfect and as good as it can be by J.
Could pick it up Saturday, but I’m down in London for the weekend, (Blade Runner Live at Albert Hall...https://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/events/2019/blade-runner-live/ so I’ll cope without the Turntable for a few more days. :eek:
Pick it up Monday after work.
Bought a load of those sleeves you sent a link for Grant, been slotting my vinyl in em in anticipation of the big day.
They do make a difference, I like em.
Gonna be a lot of fun again, this vinyl lark.
good stuff.. enjoy the big smoke
The games afoot...
https://i.imgur.com/2Euz0Bl.jpg
showing a bit of leg...
https://i.imgur.com/1Zg72zv.jpg
Bigman80
30-10-2019, 14:23
showing a bit of leg...
https://i.imgur.com/1Zg72zv.jpgOooooh. Shiny.
AJSki2fly
30-10-2019, 14:27
Tease, I had a read and it sound that is a very good TT indeed, I will be very interested in your report on how it performs. Enjoy!:D
hope that poly lid comes off easy
The P10 seems to get away with being really good without being ridiculous design wise.
Enjoy.
come on mate... lets be 'avin' u;)
At work!
post more tonight.
Brian was over last night, I set it up and we had a listen...
wow.
good... kinda thought it would be waowy:D
Looking cool Gaz - just read this thread and had to smile at the title.
My final system? . . . nah, I reckon not ;)
Home and sitting with a cuppa...
An update.
From Rega's own Site, the Headline features of the deck:
1 Ultra-lightweight plinth
2 DB Technology (Double Brace Technology)
3 RB3000 tonearm
4 Ceramic Platter
5 24v Low noise motor assembly
6 EBLT Drive Belts
7 PL10 PSU custom matched advanced power supply.
More info here: http://www.rega.co.uk/planar-10.html
Mines came factory fitted with Rega's new Apheta 3 MC cartridge.
Few more pics from last nights unboxing:
https://i.imgur.com/ikWbfvu.jpg
Handy "cut out and keep" guide...
https://i.imgur.com/H5RA3Di.jpg
Power Supply and speed controller - Metal case in the style of Rega's new high end electronics.
https://i.imgur.com/rVOutAN.jpg
Rear panel showing XLR type connection to power the deck's motor, as aell as micro speed adjustment.
(ooo...and a fuse to swap out... :) )
https://i.imgur.com/VJGGffQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uJjk34S.jpg
Finally out the box, wired up and put on the rack
https://i.imgur.com/h57Zo9G.jpg
Double belt pully with Regas latest and greatest new belt type:
https://i.imgur.com/kJwYvtc.jpg
New RB3000 arm
Blurb from the website is interesting:
"The tolerance of the RB3000 tonearm is so tight that no adhesive is used at any point throughout the construction.
The RB3000 tonearm uses our advanced, preloaded zero tolerance bearing assembly adjusted to less than 1000th of a mm.
This gives friction free movement and zero levels of unwanted play."
Level of engineering is immense here.
This is a good shot to show the foam construction of the plinth?
https://i.imgur.com/64ulxPP.jpg
And the Apheta 3 MC cartridge:
https://i.imgur.com/Qmag1sM.jpg
Comes with a free platter - what a bargain!
This ones ceramic and very very white. Looks very cool:
https://i.imgur.com/tbZzb5x.jpg
And a final couple of pics the P10 in its spot on the rack:
https://i.imgur.com/vA6nmmf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tbZzb5x.jpg
Last one, showing its (very) groovy dust cover.
Think the smoked perspex looks great against the white ceramic platter...nice contrast.
https://i.imgur.com/3h5AScH.jpg
That's all folks.
Sound impressions to follow, though first blast fresh out the box last night it sounded wonderful.
Obviously the Cart needs time to break in, as does the power supply so looking forward to enjoying its progress going forward.
I'm going to enjoy vinyl again in a big way,no doubt about it. :)
An interesting thing Im trying once the PSU and cartridge has fully settled in, is to use the digital side of my PS Audio Phonostage and compare the sound from it's RCA analogue outputs direct to my preamp Vs. the Turntable being converted to 24/96 or DSD on the fly into my Dac via its i2s connection.
Will be an interesting comparison!
More to come in a wee while once I've spent some time with it.
As a Rega fan and lover of simplicity, that's gorgeous Gaz
charles hidalgo
31-10-2019, 10:21
Nice. Curious to hear your thoughts on how it sounds.
rmcin626
31-10-2019, 10:39
Very nice indeed
Very nice turntable indeed Gaz and great pics by the way. Hope you and Brian had a good evening.
Look forward to your listening impressions.:cool:
Looks crap mate;)
:D .................................................. ..........................................
Lovely bit of engineering right across board imo. worthy of a design Oscar
indeed... whens the board meeting?:eyebrows:
hornucopia
31-10-2019, 17:02
Not sure why the power supply needs 'breaking in'. Surely it's just voltage?
Ali Tait
31-10-2019, 17:14
Wonder how it’ll be before you start modding it. :lol:
Not sure why the power supply needs 'breaking din'. Surely it's just voltage?
Oh now theres a question!
I'll give it a go Chris.
With any new component factors like capacitors taking time to form, (at microscopic level caps have tiny holes which fill in when voltage is applied over time, changing various electrical charactaristics and eventually over time get the cap operating to the ideal "designed for"electrical spec.
In the case of power supplies, the big electrolytic capacitors' serial resistance (and other factors) changes over time as voltage is applied and operates differently the longer its been on.
This process can translate to sound quality changing once the components have some time on them.
When you think that electrical designers design a final product to perform and sound a specific way...and choose internal components to make that happen...all the electrical characteristics are important.
Why pick this resistor over that, why that particular cap...etc.
My own personal listening experience with new gear shows this burn in factor to be real, and I always give any bit of new kit a couple of weeks normal daily use to settle in.
Dont over worry about it, just enjoy the improvements as they roll in. :)
Again, to go past top level "voltage is voltage" view...
QUALITY and stability of voltage matters.
These come from the quality of components used and the way they are implemented in circuit to best make use of their properties, towards an end design goal.
A deck like the P10 needs to run as quiet and accurate as possible, and in designing its power supply Rega engineers have been quite clever.
Aside selecting quality capacitors and the like; and implementing them properly, its quite clever how the power supply /speed controller regulates the speed and keeps it accurate.
Again, the Quality and stability of the 24V it provides to the motor is key.
(from Rega's blurb...)
The speed and control of the motor is achieved by using a new DSP (Digital Signal Processing) generator built upon a high stability crystal. This device will divide the accurate square wave from the crystal to the exact frequency required to turn the platter at the selected speed. The DSP core will also generate a near perfect sinusoidal waveform to power the motor.
Anyways...
Happy to leave the technical stuff alone, cool as it is, and enjoy the music.
it sounds very very vunderbar, so works for me. :)
Wonder how it’ll be before you start modding it. :lol:
Not sure I can do better than Rega's engineers with this one... :)
Ali Tait
01-11-2019, 08:09
You’ll be looking at a fancy cart somewhere down the line, I’ll put money on it. :-)
You’ll be looking at a fancy cart somewhere down the line, I’ll put money on it. :-)
Dunno man...
the Rega Apheta 3 MC I got fitted with it is pretty great.
When I demo'd the Planar 8 and the 10, both were fitted with Dynavector MC's, the 10 had the same XX2 I had fitted on my Gorbe, loved that cart.
Im getting a better sound at home with the Apheta 3 than the Dynavector on the same deck.
But hey...never say never, right? :)
Ali Tait
01-11-2019, 09:03
Look forward to hearing it mate.
Its a noticable step up from the Gorbe I had before mate, even with an SME V bolted on it.
Surprised...but not surprised at the same time.
Rega know their stuff for sure, and have done something really special here.
Brians first reaction..
"Yup, thats a 4 and a half grand turntable, you can hear it."
The P10's not long out, so not many reviews out there yet.
Jason Kennedy likes it.
http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/rega-planar-10-turntable-and-arm
It really doesn't sound lke a turntable, more like a sorted Reel to Reel with the same rock solid flow and image stability, but pulls detail out and presents it in a way I've never heard before.
it's helluva thing.
Bigman80
01-11-2019, 12:30
Its a noticable step up from the Gorbe I had before mate, even with an SME V bolted on it.
Surprised...but not surprised at the same time.
Rega know their stuff for sure, and have done something really special here.
Brians first reaction..
"Yup, thats a 4 and a half grand turntable, you can hear it."
The P10's not long out, so not many reviews out there yet.
Jason Kennedy likes it.
http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/rega-planar-10-turntable-and-arm
It really doesn't sound lke a turntable, more like a sorted Reel to Reel with the same rock solid flow and image stability, but pulls detail out and presents it in a way I've never heard before.
it's helluva thing.What phonostage are you using Gaz?
What phonostage are you using Gaz?
I'm using a PS Audio Nuwave phono converter Oliver
https://www.psaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/NWP-2.png
https://www.psaudio.com/products/nuwave-phono-converter/
Dont feel as though I'm missing out on anything with this, and looking forward to trying out it's digital box of tricks at a later date.
Bigman80
01-11-2019, 12:46
I'm using a PS Audio Nuwave phono converter Oliver
https://www.psaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/NWP-2.png
https://www.psaudio.com/products/nuwave-phono-converter/
Dont feel as though I'm missing out on anything with this, and looking forward to trying out it's digital box of tricks at a later date.Oh, I'll have a look into that.
Glad the rega has rekindled the analogue for you mate. Sometimes, a change can do wonders.
I have a similar type of phono; in that it can play it digitally on fly at several rates.. Mine is a fair bit cheaper than Gary's tho.. a project ds2 usb
Vinyl rips were another reason I pushed the boat out and got the P10.
I wanted my rips to be as good as possible...so source first.
Hows it going with the P10 Gaz, bin playing much vinyl?:)
Clive197
07-12-2019, 10:06
I'm using a PS Audio Nuwave phono converter Oliver
https://www.psaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/NWP-2.png
https://www.psaudio.com/products/nuwave-phono-converter/
Dont feel as though I'm missing out on anything with this, and looking forward to trying out it's digital box of tricks at a later date.
I use the PS Audio NuWave phono converter also. I was thinking of trying the Chord Huei but have put that on hold as I’m very happy with the NuWave.
Same here Clive, its a really great sounding Phonostage, even if you strip away all the digital gubbins.
Only see me ever changing it for the new Rega Aura, (heard one - its phenomenal with the Planar 10) but its very spendy, so that's way way down the line.
My new carts not even broken in yet, so a change to my phonostage is in the distant future.
Hows it going with the P10 Gaz, bin playing much vinyl?:)
Sorry Jimbo, just noticed your post there!
Abso-Effen-Lutely mate...
The more hours I put on the deck the better it sounds, the cart being brand new.
A happy ending to my vinyl Saga for sure and I’m real happy about that.
When I invested in my Gorbe/SME V/Dynavector “grail” deck I spent “rather a lot” on vinyl at the same time?
I wanted to get my favourite albums on vinyl that I had “back in the day” when I had my old Planar 2 as well as the newer ones I’d collected on CD over the years since then.
All those, as well as the albums from my favourite Bands and...well, you get the picture.
Put it this way, Discogs did rather well.
Quite the investment and i got a bit obsessive about it at the time if I was honest.
But hey...job done...right?
Well...
I began to realise I was listening less and less to vinyl as my digital was sounding more engaging, I’d started to think I’d made an expensive mistake investing in all that vinyl.
Maybe it just wasn’t for me after all having gone in hard to investing in my digital kit.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
Thankfully, it wasn’t vinyl itself, but my pursuit of a Piece of equipment I carried in my head, not my heart...or should I say in my ears.
Moral of the story kids, listen, listen and listen some more to kit before you spend big on it.
Cool to have a “grail”, but you need to enjoy it too.
Zap forward to Rega’s latest and greatest. Holy hell... :eek:
Different flavours...maybe, but I like this one a whole heap better.
Hearing subtleties I didn’t know was there in stuff I’ve been listening to for over 30 years and I’m rediscovering WHY I liked my favourite albums with the new P10.
SO glad to have those albums I love on vinyl.
Musically it’s all out there, and interestingly doesn’t sound like Traditional vinyl reproduction, and not digital either.
Its something else, but whatever it is it’s all about the music, not the hifi, and it’s an absolute blast.
it’s going to get better as the carts fully running in too.
Tonight, listening to an old Lp of Karajan’s take on Vivaldi’s 4 Seasons, bought the record nearly 30 years ago when I was at College.
Cinemascope full colour reproduction in the room with you, massed strings, individually nuanced and tonally coloured are bouncing off the Venue walls, each section timbre and tone different, placed in this huge cavernous space behind my speakers.
Never heard anything sounding more “You are there in the venue” than this.
You can “feel” the musicians playing off each other, just how good the orchestra is playing as one and all the subtleties in between.
Its amazing, and WAY beyond what I was able to hear with my previous deck, great as that was.
The P10 is a wonderful way to experience the Life in music.
Fallen in love with vinyl again James, funny old road how I got here but hey...it’s all good.
A big punt, sure, but it’s all there in every note played and then some.
Happy chocolate button here, and grateful for what I have in this.
So uhm...yeah.
Enjoying vinyl again. :D
Thanks for the update mate. Interesting how your TT has gone to the extreme in low mass and produces such an amazing result. Just show how different ways of thinking can be so effective.
Thanks for the update mate. Interesting how your TT has gone to the extreme in low mass and produces such an amazing result. Just show how different ways of thinking can be so effective.
Aye,
totally agree it’s an interesting one Jim.
Really does go to show;
More than one way to get the groove, out the groove...and it’s good to hear the different approaches, see what works for you.
Weirdly, the more right the equipment is, and don’t get me wrong having the gears cool and all, but if done right the less you think about it and the more you focus on the music you love.
Musical engagements where I’m at, and totally buying into Rega’s philosophy here.
Turntable done, MAYBE a new phonostage in the future, know I can do better and hear more of what the P10 can do.
Just need to pick my stepping off point.
Ali Tait
13-12-2019, 15:37
Glad it's doing the biz mate, like to have a listen sometime.
hornucopia
13-12-2019, 17:02
As a Rega fan and lover of simplicity, that's gorgeous Gaz
Reminds me of how the original RB250/300 arm was, at the time, the limit of extruded alloy technology.
Rega’s definitely pushing the technology with this one.
I always trust a Hifi company that states their goals, sticks by them and pushes what can be done.
I’ll buy into that, Roy Gandy has had the same design ethos since 1973.
Works for him, works for me.
If it makes my favourite Albums sound great, I’m in.
The games afoot...again. :)
And just the thing when stuck at home too.
I run a Pre/Power amp setup, and recently moved on from my 300B SET power amp, so needed something to fill the gap.
Whilst saving up for it's replacement, to fill the gap I brought through the Ebay special solid state power amp from the 2nd system.
Hadn't given it much thought when I bought it, just needed really that sounded OK for a second system.
But hey, best laid plans and all that?
You get an idea in your head where you want to go with your system then something throws you a curve ball.
Colour me shocked, turns out this wee Amps a bit of a "Sleeper".
Hooking it up to my main preamp I was taken back by how great it sounded in the big system.
Mids and top end...perfect.
Hadn't heard extension and focus like this in my system before. Very impressive.
Maybe could have done with just a LITTLE bit more low end meat on the bone and grunt though...?
The synergy with my speakers and Preamp is terrific, just needs that boost at the low end.
So got to thinking... and hatched a cunning plan.
Given how great this thing sounds hooked up to a 'proper' system, what about it's bigger more powerful brother, would that add the low end I'm after?
From reading around online, it's bigger brother, (a late 90's "giant killer"...it says 'ere...) should do just that.
A properly built power amp: BIG toroid transformer and caps, Damping Factor of 500 able to provide a constant 30 amps and 33 amps for dynamic peaks.
130 wpc into 8 ohms, into 95db horns, should be plenty.
If I want more, down the line have the option later to pick up a second identical power amp and after adjusting a few jumpers on the PCB convert both to bridged monoblocks pushing out 360 wpc.
:eek:
Not into massive volume just want that low end solidity and grunt that drives the music and has plenty in reserve for those big booms when you need them.
On paper though...
The big brother amps only a temporary stand in power amp whilst saving for the 300Bs "final" replacement, but given how good it's baby brother from the 2nd system is sounding in the system at the moment...this might just be "good enough" to call it done.
I'm in a place nowadays where care less about the kit and more about the music, if it sounds "good enough" I'm happy to call it done and enjoy the music so...maybe.
Amps being delivered tomorrow.
Will enjoy listening this week with it - good stuff when stuck at home.
(Never thought I'd miss going to work so much though!)
Stick up a couple of pics when its in place.
AJSki2fly
14-04-2020, 13:49
The games afoot...again. :)
And just the thing when stuck at home too.
............
Amps being delivered tomorrow.
Will enjoy listening this week with it - good stuff when stuck at home.
(Never thought I'd miss going to work so much though!)
Stick up a couple of pics when its in place.
I will be interested to see what it is that has taken you over to the dark side of amps. :D When I was waiting fo Amy new Allnic I had a Vincent on loan from a friend which shocked me in a similar way and if it had not been for the fact I had done the deal with the Allnic might have settled down to the Vincent long term, and for 1/5 the price.:doh:
I know Adrian,
sometimes this hobby has a way of surprising you.
Monday was a Bank Holiday, just just found out the Company I bought the amp from DHL’d it Monday, not Tuesday.
Quelle surprise...Its just been delivered! :eek:
Didn’t expect that.
Once I get the Hasmat suit on and hose down the box with bleach, I’ll take a look see what it’s all about.
Might do a bit of housekeeping on it first before switch on.
Its a 1 owner amp with full box etc traded in, so expect it to be in great nick like the photos in the Ad.
But it’s an older amp and wouldn’t do any harm to clean up and deposit the sockets, make sure everything internally is tightened up and maybe strip back the mains cable to fresh copper and fit a new plug.
Once I’ve checked it over and powered up, I’ll leave it burbling away for a couple hours before I sit down to listen.
Happy days.
Oh,
it’s one of these. I had it’s baby brother RB-971 in the 2nd system.
https://i.imgur.com/fpctCaO.jpg
Sometimes you just get that synergy.
Firebottle
14-04-2020, 17:40
I have had some experience of checking over the really hi-end Japanese amplifiers of yesteryear, they are quite impressive.
Also updating some of the phono amps with modern capacitors.
Good stuff Gaz :thumbsup:
RobbieGong
14-04-2020, 17:46
I have had some experience of checking over the really hi-end Japanese amplifiers of yesteryear, they are quite impressive.
Also updating some of the phono amps with modern capacitors.
Good stuff Gaz :thumbsup:
Aint they just Alan,
I've a real soft spot for the high end Sansui's in particular :)
Cheers Alan.
Did some housekeeping on it before plugging it in and leaving it to warm up.
Exposed fresh copper on the mains cable and fitted a new silver plated 13A plug with a decent fuse.
New speaker cable connections too, don’t think it’s been switched on in Months since it was tested as working in January.
So a couple of days before I make up my mind on it.
From first test at switch on though, quite different sounding than before, much better at the low end.
Which is what I was after, great.
Some pics:
Compared to the smaller amp from the 2nd system, showing the difference in size.
All about the power supply in the amp, in comparison a lot bigger and higher rated.
https://i.imgur.com/1Olphlb.jpg
After a Bit of a clean up the amps almost like new, been lucky with this one.
Can tell its been well looked and was handed in as a Trade in.
An older amp though, so wanted to open it up and check for any swollen caps or brown outs on resistors.
Clean as a whistle, a good result.
Massive transformer, beefy power supply caps and the thing weigh’s a ton. Exactly what you’d want in a power amp.
https://i.imgur.com/uGGLWuc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L6nz9eL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FHiXDJW.jpg
Is this 10K uF rating indicative of a strong power output? I’ve read the amp can punt out a constant 30 amps.
Four internal glass fuses...Some room for improvement then.
Dual Mono construction, and able to bridge it to a monoblock with a lot more than it’s 130 watts in stereo mode.
https://i.imgur.com/vusIQlC.jpg
Looks the biz in the system rack, sounding good so far, a big jump in quality particularly in the low end over its little brother the RB-971.
Just let it do its thing in the background for a couple of days then I’ll sit down for a proper listen.
https://i.imgur.com/X6Zgm9G.jpg
So a good result so far, think it’s been a good punt!
I have had some experience of checking over the really hi-end Japanese amplifiers of yesteryear, they are quite impressive.
Also updating some of the phono amps with modern capacitors.
Good stuff Gaz :thumbsup:
Hmnn..
Bit more background hiss than I’m used to.
Think the old gain structure with efficient speakers Scenario is kicking in.
My Pre has a valve input stage, wondering if I’m hearing tube noise...
Do Rothwell attenuators work to lower amp gain? Thinking -10dB or so.
Wondering if they affect Sound quality or just lower amp gain.
Anyone any direct experience of using ‘em to lower background hiss?
thanks. :)
AJSki2fly
15-04-2020, 12:16
Great looking amp, should do the business, these old beasts were well respected when new. I suspect your hiss may be coming from what’s in front of it, maybe time to do some front end swaps to try and find the cause , if you can.
If the gain of both amps is the same you could bridge them and then the fun really starts! Any difference in WPC is irrelevant.
Front end swaps...you mean everything from the Preamp backwards Adrian?
Suspect its the Pre, as even with nothing connected Im still getting the hiss on all inputs, RCA and XLR.
Thats why I was thinking attenuators, reduce the gain between Pre and power.
Never had to tackle this before an interesting problem!:scratch:
Great looking amp, should do the business, these old beasts were well respected when new. I suspect your hiss may be coming from what’s in front of it, maybe time to do some front end swaps to try and find the cause , if you can.
Cheers Rob,
So you saing if the gain in the same one channel wouldnt be quieter than the other given ones quite a lower watts per channel?
New to me this stuff!
If the gain of both amps is the same you could bridge them and then the fun really starts! Any difference in WPC is irrelevant.
Ali Tait
15-04-2020, 12:36
You using the PS Audio as a pre?
Does it not have adjustable gain?
Its a PS Audio Preamp I use Ali yeah,not the Dac as a digital volume straight into the power amp.
Volume at zero onPre still hiss, but of course gain and volume are different :D
Firebottle
15-04-2020, 14:23
Rather than use external attenuators why not reduce the gain of the amplifier itself?
Alter R651 and 652, 18K, I suggest tacking an additional 18K in parallel with each one.
Don't use in monoblock mode unless you do the same with R561.
Whoa...
way above my paygrade Alan!
AJSki2fly
15-04-2020, 19:10
Front end swaps...you mean everything from the Preamp backwards Adrian?
Suspect its the Pre, as even with nothing connected Im still getting the hiss on all inputs, RCA and XLR.
Thats why I was thinking attenuators, reduce the gain between Pre and power.
Never had to tackle this before an interesting problem!:scratch:
Why not try a simple passive pre like a Tisbury foe £130, I had one and it was great. As long as you have .5 to 1v feeds you should be fine with an amp like that I used mine with a Meridian 557 and a pair of 308 mono blocks
Thanks Adrian,
Sure its gain will maybe eliminate the hiss, but loath though to discard my current Preamp it brings a helluva lot to the table.
So keeping my Pre, may change out the input valves as an option?
AJSki2fly
15-04-2020, 20:33
Hi Gary, Personally I have mixed views on pre-amps, in my experience if you can loose it and manage with the pure signal to the power stage then you get closer to reality. It’s a difficult one.
I'll sound "sanity check" again a direct connection from my Dac to power amp tomorrow, given I have a completely different power amp.
Didn't make sense when I had the 300B SET, see what happens with a Beefy solid state.
Makes sense to try.
Ok,
In this mornings fun I swapped out the Premp and connected the Dac direct to power amp.
Slightly less hiss, but sound quality dropped away, sounded flatter and more like a recording of a song rather than people playing instruments in the room.
So back in went the Pre.
Funny thing...
I’ve kept the Rotel amp powered on since I first hooked it up, either my brains getting used to it or there’s less hiss from the amp with some hours on it now.
If it hadn’t been switched on since January this might make sense?
Maybe the amps stabilising a bit after being off for 3 months...
Anyway, whatever the reason I’m happy to say I don’t really notice the hiss anymore.
Cool.
Firebottle
16-04-2020, 10:25
That's excellent Gaz.
With regard to being above your pay grade that's crap. If you can wire in balanced mains you can attach a couple of resistors in an amp.
I am making the assumption that there is a silk screen on the PCB showing the component references.
What position is your volume control at, to judge the level of system gain?
The service manuals online Alan, which is handy!
https://www.vintageshifi.com/repertoire-pdf/pdf/telecharge.php?pdf=Rotel-RB-981-Service-Manual.pdf
Balance volume between setting on the amp with digital volume setting on the Dac.
Pre at 53
Dac between 20 and 40 depending on music.
Took a different tack looking at the slight hiss I'm still getting with the Rotel power amp?
My Preamp has a valve driven input stage, and there's quite a lot of adjustability built in with it - so had a look at that.
You can swap out valves so the sound is tweakable, can be set to use either 12V 12AU7 tubes or 6/7 volt tubes.
Additionally you can set the bias current to be 4 or 5ma, so a few different permutations to try and see if it has an effect on the hiss.
From the Manual:
https://i.imgur.com/T2k6iNH.jpg
If I was running less efficient speakers it wouldn't be an issue, but at 95dB...
Ordered some different input valves coming today, see how I get on.
Opti-cal
24-04-2020, 11:11
If I was running less efficient speakers it wouldn't be an issue, but at 95dB...
Ordered some different input valves coming today, see how I get on.
I'm in the same boat Gaz . . . except my speakers are over 100db! I've actually managed to all but eliminate the hiss using certain tubes . . . but not the ones I want of course.
The ones I want to run are new(ish) so may quieten down a little I'm hoping. The preamp is also very high gain for the power amp anyway. I tried -10db attenuators but it murdered the sound. A sound which I'm very happy with bar the hiss between tracks.
I'm considering putting a higher value resistor in the output path too.
Always a compromise somewhere I feel . . . some adjustable gain and volume in our preamps would be darn useful right now.
Hey Chris,
Yup, more times than not there's always a trade off...
Have a set of Tungstram ECC-82's which when ran at 5ma sound amazingly transparent and dynamic, literally perfect.
Apart from increased hiss.
Knock the bias current back to 4ma, hiss drops a lot...but so does the "magic".
Some brand new valves to roll in, my other ones are NOS and have a fair amount of time on them, so will see what happens.
The JJ 12AU7 pair are thought very highly with other guys with the same pre-amp, so fingers crossed.
Glad to hear your experience of Attenuators, that was maybe a road I was going to go down.
The higher value resistor is a good shout from Alan, in the queue if different valves don't sort it.
TBH unless I put the ECC-82s in at 5ma, all other combo's are liveable, but want that magic without the hiss - if possible!
Currently keeping me busy.
Updates to follow...
https://i.imgur.com/smdLycs.jpg
Demolished my speakers!
Major refurb of the H2’S, mostly cosmetic but perhaps some internal wiring and crossover updates too. Maybe.
Love the sound, but in my room they look out of place and old fashioned.
So...a modernising makeover, freshen ‘em up and hopefully make them less imposing in the room.
Basically the H2’s in svelte crisp modern white, not 70’s church organ teak.
Brought through the wee Dali’s from the 2nd system, gives an idea of white speakers in the room - much better I think.
https://i.imgur.com/Raokjsw.jpg
The side panels weren’t solidly fixed to the “chassis” any more, so off they came for repaint and reglue.
Other stuff like fitting better outrigger feet, replacing all the old black speaker cloth with something much nicer.
Couple of other things too, keep me busy for a while.
Nice work, I like white speakers, blend into the room better with lighter coloured walls.
looking good mate.. nicely taken too
Something that's just occurred to me looking at that photo.
Why is Nipper facing away and not looking at the record player...?
Now sorted. :D
27/05/20
Been asking about recently on ways to get more from my turntable?
Considered getting a Rega wall shelf but with a stone floor consensus seems to be stick with the table it sits on.
From what Rega peeps DID say, was it would be good to better isolate it from the glass surface...so ordering some stuff for that.
Couple of things today:
# The Rega rubber feet ?
Ordering a set of IsoAcoustics isolation feet to try under the deck. By all accounts extremely good and I have a set of their studio monitor stands in the bedroom and they work great.
Feet look good on a P10 (Not my photo)
https://i.imgur.com/aiRE3wl.jpg
Also,
Its worth looking at substituting out the stock white felt mat?
Lots of buzz about this one online, Collaro Audio precision mat.
My Rega dealer stocks them and mentioned it when I was demo-ing the P10.
Review HERE:
http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/collaro-lp12-mat
Getting a loan of one to see what I think from my Dealer.https://i.imgur.com/ED7SlSS.jpg
See what happens, by all accounts both will let the Rega strut more of its stuff. See what happens.
indeed, i did find isolating well from glass is a big bonus
good to know Grant thanks.
Feet arrived, a nice improvement.
https://i.imgur.com/CenXIZC.jpg
Feet arrived, a nice improvement.
https://i.imgur.com/CenXIZC.jpgWhat feet are those, might look good on my Panzer Plinth when it arrives.
What fitting m6/m8?
nice quality feet as i'd expect of you:)
And fitted.
Feel like I’m letting the turntable stretch its legs a bit better, quite a substantial improvement with better isolation from the glass shelf below.
Want to get the best out of the deck, so more to come on this front...
https://i.imgur.com/UohCcsU.jpg
Mike,
IsoAcoustics Orea Graphite.
No screw thread (see my pic above), rubber cap on top and bottom.
Fits into area under plinth where stock feet were screwed on.
Happily, the chrome ring where the Stock feet sat is part of the plinth, so blends in nicely with the IsoAcoustics feet.
What feet are those, might look good on my Panzer Plinth when it arrives.
What fitting m6/m8?
Mike,
IsoAcoustics Orea Graphite.
No screw thread (see my pic above), rubber cap on top and bottom.
Fits into area under plinth where stock feet were screwed on.
Happily, the chrome ring where the Stock feet sat is part of the plinth, so blends in nicely with the IsoAcoustics feet.Great, thanks [emoji4]
nice quality feet as i'd expect of you:)
cheers Grant!
https://i.imgur.com/UJUBgwP.jpg
Firebottle
31-05-2020, 13:25
Bit minimalist. Not even a bit of varnish?
:eyebrows:
:lol:
not on a Sunday...
Bit minimalist. Not even a bit of varnish?
:eyebrows:
Been refurbing my Impulse H2 speakers during lockdown...
Heres a ‘before’ picture.
https://i.imgur.com/kFP2vgE.jpg
brian2957
08-06-2020, 11:28
:popcorn:
Love the sound, and short of a lottery win probably endgame for me.
Not so much the look in my room?
70s church organ Teak not really working for me, so what better time to start my “cunning plan” when off work during lockdown.
So what’s the Plan?
Modernise the look, make them fit better in my room and maybe improve the sound along the way if I can?
Specifically looking at the following:
VISUAL LOOK
* Convert them into the “white version” that was never made to fit the look of my room and make the huge cabinets less imposing.
So all panels, horn enclosures and acoustic cloth all need changed to white.
All materials chosen and sorted, will blend in much better in the room even despite the speaker size I think.
https://i.imgur.com/qtiF54W.jpg
Drew up some sizes for replacement cloth, panel sizes etc. To let me buy in what I need.
https://i.imgur.com/HOXFAz4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cZcchx8.jpg
PERFORMANCE
* Sound fantastic as is, but any improvements I can do along the way?
Decided not to go down the route of changing the crossovers, as I don’t want to change the basic character of the sound.
The internal wiring wiring between crossover and drive units doesn’t fill me with the warm fuzzies...
Very stiff thick solid core with evidence of oxidation along the cable length, the solder joints seem less than ideal too.
The cable may have been good at the time, but the speakers came out in 1991 so nearly 30 years old!
I use Duelund DCA16GA tinned copper stranded wire in cotton and oil as my main speaker cable and it’s the best I’ve had in my system, love it’s “Tone”, it’s just right.
Decided to internally rewire the H2’s with the same stuff, though after some research I’ll be using the same 16GA for mid and top, thicker 12GA for the bass.
Thinking synergy with using the same cable throughout the speaker chain?
Once speakers are done and had some time on them, I’ll try some 12GA as my main speaker cable too and compare.
Comparison of old and new internal wire:
https://i.imgur.com/wKBRTyF.jpg
OTHER POSSIBLE PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENTS
One of the changes the successor to the H2 had was how the downward firing bass horn interacted with the floor, giving sometimes inconsistent results...
I found spiking straight into carpet wasn’t as good as putting a stone slab under the speakers, so some truth in this.
The successor basically had its own “floor” built in standardising the result in different rooms.
An acoustically damped metal plate 2” from the mouth of the bass horn better controlling how the bass interacts with the floor.
I won’t be doing THAT but I will be doing similar.
So interaction with the floor can be improved.
To do this I’ll be disposing if the old (and rusty!) floor spikes and fitting “outriggers” from a Company called Soundcity in the US, who specialises in this stuff.
Will be replacing the basic spikes with IsoAcoustics Gaia speaker footers.
The IsoAcoustics stuff really works, recently got a set of their footers for my Turntable and works great.
So basically something like this:
https://i2.wp.com/soundocity.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/MVC-003S-1.jpg?fit=640%2C480&ssl=1
but with the spikes replaced with far better IsoAcoustics speaker footers. The do “spike plates” for the feet to sit if you have carpet, to spike through to the floor below.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/uploads/monthly_2019_09/Image00001.jpg.abc8df44de5bee2cb9a10ff5f158a867.jp g
The “improved” H2’s had a damped metal plate built in near the bottom of the speaker to better control the bass firing down?
I’ll be experimenting with putting a similar damped plate of some kind on the floor or maybe even a few inches above it below the downward firing bass horn, to try and recreate that improvement.
So,
Thats then Theory...on with the Practice! :D
Firebottle
08-06-2020, 11:47
'Internal requiring' ooh err missus..
Take it the auto correct kicked in and you meant internal rewiring.
brian2957
08-06-2020, 12:15
Nah..he probably meant that 1st post Alan :lol:
'Internal requiring' ooh err missus..
Take it the auto correct kicked in and you meant internal rewiring.
:lol: Yeah, typo-tastic
https://memecrunch.com/meme/A9LD7/you-dirty-old-man/image.jpg?w=620&c=1
Yup, even with a quick blast of white, concept approved. :thumbsup:
Time to start destroying them!
Cabinets need to be disassembled, drive units and crossover removed, all spikes and cloth to be removed.
Basically stripped right back to their shells to let the refurb start.
https://i.imgur.com/EE65KJM.jpg
Spikes off first...to let me remove grill cloth.
https://i.imgur.com/sbNT9Ku.jpg
Mid horn removed, cloth being removed.
Too late to change my mind? :D
https://i.imgur.com/9XgDk2D.jpg
Cloth and side trim mostly removed
https://i.imgur.com/k5gRddn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aHLo0v3.jpg
While the H2’s are out of action brought through the Dali’s from the 2nd system to keep music going, really give an idea of the size of the H2’s and how a white speaker is much less imposing in the room.
https://i.imgur.com/7cgb8K4.jpg
We're big fans of white speakers, they blend in more if you have light coloured walls. You're doing a champion job so far which I'm sure will look great in your room.
All speaker cloth and panels removed, keeping the old stuff as a Template to cut white cloth to size before refitting.
https://i.imgur.com/XFbYNhE.jpg
Both speaker cabs stripped down, mid horn removed and ready to remove the drive units and crossover.
Over the life of the speaker the curved side panels had came loose in places, showing panel gaps where it had came away..so decided to remove them and reglue.
A lot of cleanup required...
https://i.imgur.com/smdLycs.jpg
Rear panel will need repainting from black to white...
https://i.imgur.com/Z9KZho7.jpg
Posties been...
https://i.imgur.com/iONudOH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ewcQYQg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vbnrjea.jpg
With the IsoAcoustics feet and the Collaro red mat it’s quite the improvement, even over how good the P10 sounded originally.
Quite different from the supplied Rega mat, thinner and more compact, can tell it’s a different material altogether.
Happily no VTA issues, just plonk n play.
Grips better to the platter too, less prone to lift off with a static-y LP.
Good stuff.
All about getting the most from the kit.
Love it when a plan comes together.
A vinyl day today I think.:)
Really lifts the deck that
Aye,
It does look good on there I think?
Splash of colour, bit of punch and a good contrast against the white.
Like the retro logo too.
Really like the look of your P10.
Yes the logo makes it.
My second TT was a Collaro 2010 (or it might have been a 4T200). It was a sort of "poor mans 301".
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=143808&d=1496421023
I re-sprayed it semi-matt black, resprung the motor, replaced the switch suppressor and fitted it with an SME 3009 II arm. It would have looked good with the new Collaro mat.
Would look great on there.
Those decks were supposed to be very good.
Bit of tweakin’ of a Thursday...
On clearing out my Hifi bits n bobs drawer, came across a spare Synergistic Research Blue fuse I used on my (now sold) Transporter.
Turns out its rating compatible with my PS Audio BHK preamp, so in it went.
https://i.imgur.com/2DYfGbI.jpg
jobs a good ‘un. Nice improvement over stock fuse.
Have them elsewhere in my kit, and they do what it says on the tin.
Also, been playing with isolation feet, having a glass shelved rack’s not the ideal, but having sorted my turntable support recently, was looking at my digital source now, the Oppo 203.
This is my Roon Network renderer as well as the Hub for Netflix, Youtube and the like...all sound goes through the Oppo.
So worth tweaking more out of it if I could.
Had some bits lying around tried a few combo’s and settled on these.
3 part footer,
https://i.imgur.com/QEhKQtI.jpg
SoundDampedSteel “constrained layer damping” plate
https://sounddampedsteel.com/hifi/
RDC Cone “Cups”, sat on top of the SDS plate for 2 layer isolation from the glass shelf.
https://www.analogueseduction.net/isolation/clearlight-audio-rdc-cone-cups-pack-of-4-.html
The top of these (conveniently) are recessed to fit onto the matching RDC Cones.
I tried the Cones with them, but weren’t as effective as using the recess in the Cup to fit a ball bearing in.
Taking an idea from the Naim Fraim Hifi stand, a ball bearing gives the smallest point of contact under your kits casework and offers really good decoupling.
So with two Additive layers of vibration absorption, topped off with a good way to decouple your kit from the surface...job done.
good job getting stuff off glass gary.. it causes issues ive found...
good job getting stuff off glass gary.. it causes issues ive found...
Made a really good improvement Grant, better sound all round.
Oh,
replaced the steel ball bearing with a Silicon Nitride ceramic ball bearing today, they are same as the ones used in the mega spendy Stillpoints.
Always good to trickle down mega money design tweaks to your own homebrew ones if you can!
Old
https://i.imgur.com/eNWVboK.jpg
New
https://i.imgur.com/fgftg0f.jpg
Better than the steel bearings, speakers doing a better job of disappearing and music has more texture and timbre to it.
Better music,
all from spare bits I had lying around too. :D
Was going to get more IsoAcoustic Footers for under my Dac and Preamp, but will save a chunk of change and make these up for under them instead.
Can’t see the IsoAcoustic feet bringing much over the improvement I’m getting here.
naa.
Like yourself a big box delivery.
I've sold both Rotel power amps so... :eyebrows:
Hows your new amp coming along Grant, the volume getting better?
naa.
Like yourself a big box delivery.
I've sold both Rotel power amps so... :eyebrows:
Hows your new amp coming along Grant, the volume getting better?
ok the amp from italy thats not italian :lol: yup getting used to it now. was just odd how youve gotta go so high with these speakers.. i wonder if less sensitive speakers need it up a lot more..
Aye, that one. :)
Thought it had gone AWOL somewhere over the Atlantic, had sourced some alternatives and given up on it, but showed up in Parcelforce tracking this morning as having arrived in UK.
Soon after was out for delivery today, so an unexpected result.
Funny how things work out sometimes, fingers crossed it wont be in bits or have fish stuck in the box!
Efficiency is Efficiency , speakers kicked out a hoolie with 8 valve watts so should be fine I'd have thought.
Firebottle
21-07-2020, 13:55
ok the amp from italy thats not italian :lol: yup getting used to it now. was just odd how youve gotta go so high with these speakers.. i wonder if less sensitive speakers need it up a lot more..
It's only the system gain structure Grant IMO, as long as you can get the sound level you need it's good.
Changed a pot for a stepped attenuator in a high end preamp and the same happened, had to rotate the volume knob more for the same volume level.
It's only the system gain structure Grant IMO, as long as you can get the sound level you need it's good.
Changed a pot for a stepped attenuator in a high end preamp and the same happened, had to rotate the volume knob more for the same volume level.
its a Burr-Brown analog PGA2310 volume control chip. he PGA2310 possesses two main components; a set of resistor networks and an op-amp output stage. (An op-amp output stage? We’ll come to that.) The resistor network allows for an amazing 0.5db steps of fine control with channel matching within 0.05%. Compare that to conventional motorized volume controls which can only match channels to 7-10%.
Burson’s secret sauce is setting the PGA2310’s op-amp output stage to unity gain so it essentially acts as a purely resistive volume control. This arrangement avoids any coloration the op-amp output stage may inject into the audio signal.
Sounds like a unique way of doing it, good stuff Grant.
As Alan said, as long as you get the volume you need.
In other news...
Posties been.
https://i.imgur.com/NzL5QYO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/h2xMjPT.jpg
Densen DM-30 power amp.
https://i.imgur.com/79OyXfo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zr0LyYQ.jpg
Have the matching DM20 preamp, will try it with that, though I don’t use that pre in my main system.
Supposed to be a great pairing, so will see how that goes. Need to try it just never know.
Going to plumb it in and leave it to percolate for a couple of hours.
Recently recapped and serviced and sounding as good as ever, should be a very nice bump over the wee Rotel I had been using.
Fun.
anyways, whaeres the pictures then :eek:
In other news...
Posties been.
https://i.imgur.com/NzL5QYO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/h2xMjPT.jpg
double boxed, or is there 2??
Double boxed and thankfully no Atlantic fish inside)
double boxed, or is there 2??
Looks very smart with the matching Preamp.
I remember polishing out the acrylic front panel of the pre to get it looking good, the power amp looks brand new!
https://i.imgur.com/0yPt58K.jpg
Anyway,
on to wiring it up then some music.
to be continued.
Sounds superb, much better than before.
On one channel, the others dead.
Speaking with the Seller just now.
hes a reasonable guy, just not sure what my options are given international nature of sale.
Any suggestions via PM please?
Paid via Paypal.
That's a shame. PayPal will cover you tho
Does it take a while for PayPal turnaround?
Seller has offered to refund repair cost if I take to local Technician.
seem a fair proposal?
No idea mate, I just know your covered. As you say if it's a gen offer then might be way to go
It’s a gen offer, and the least stressful option, given the international angle, shipping time etc.
A Pisser for sure, but is what it is.
Worse things happening atm.
Cheers Grant.
Firebottle
22-07-2020, 08:59
Burson’s secret sauce is setting the PGA2310’s op-amp output stage to unity gain so it essentially acts as a purely resistive volume control. This arrangement avoids any coloration the op-amp output stage may inject into the audio signal.
Interestingly the PGA chips are what I am using now, incredibly transparent.
However they have to be treated to the right in circuit conditions to achieve their full potential. I do wonder if that is the case in the Pathos amp.
It needs very low noise supplies and low source impedance to sing.
Thread drift, sorry Gaz, as you were.
No worries Alan. :thumbsup:
AJSki2fly
22-07-2020, 16:00
Sorry to hear about the missing channel, very frustrating I'm sure. PM sent. :rolleyes:
Taking the amp into a local reputable repair Tech. tommorow.
The Seller (A good guy) has agreed to foot the bill.
All’s well, but ends well.
Must say, the Densen did sound a bit ‘flippin’ crikey’ tremendous on the one channel, so all good going forward.
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