View Full Version : My 2019 Update Thread - My final system I think.
Hopefully will be a simple repair. They are a very good looking pre-power combo.
Initial report back from repair:
“Both Output Relays not engaging.”
Looking for schematic/ Service manual now.
:rolleyes:
lots of potential issues with relays alas.. some are sealed as well which leaves only electrical cleaning..or replacement
My amp circuit design knowledge is non existent Grant, so glad somebody smarter than me is looking after it.
But always good to have at least a little knowledge.
Reached out to Densen for Service Mnual/ Schematic as well as on DiyAudio, so see what comes back.
But still...BUMMER!
walpurgis
24-07-2020, 09:01
Hopefully that will be all that's wrong. Annoying, but not the end of the world.
Ali Tait
24-07-2020, 09:04
Yes, hopefully an easy fix. Nice looking combo mate. :-)
Aye,
see how it plays out.
Firebottle
24-07-2020, 11:51
Not necessary an easy fix unfortunately, sorry to say Gaz.
If the output relays aren't 'engaging' it could be that the protection circuit is detecting a fault and keeping the relays open.
Possible faults are blown output transistors or faulty psu on one rail.
I hope your 'tech' is sufficiently experienced to work it out, it can be a challenge without a circuit diagram but many amps have similar topography.
Hope it works out OK.
Densen should be able to supply a schematic. I e-mailed Krell for one for the KSA50S, didn't hold out much hope as they hadn't made them in 25 years and they'd changed hands since. Took them just 40 minutes to reply with it.
Hi Alan,
Guy comes highly recommended, 35+ years in the business, long work history with big hitters.
So ok on that front.
Latest from him:
”Unsure whether Protection Circuit or Power Supply. There are two Zener Diodes faulty [ short-circuit ] but need schematic to identify circuit. Hopefully not a serious problem.”
Contacted Densen for Service Manual or Schematic with following reply:
“Hi Gary,
I’m afraid a schematic no longer exist on this model – so I cannot help in that regard.
My service technicians might have a couple ideas – I put them on as CC.
When repairing them, we rely on the engineers who designed it who fortunately got it all in their head. If my technicians cannot help we can forward the unit on to an engineer, however this is a rather expensive option at 3000 DKK – however, they can always work some magic.
Marvellous....
Not necessary an easy fix unfortunately, sorry to say Gaz.
If the output relays aren't 'engaging' it could be that the protection circuit is detecting a fault and keeping the relays open.
Possible faults are blown output transistors or faulty psu on one rail.
I hope your 'tech' is sufficiently experienced to work it out, it can be a challenge without a circuit diagram but many amps have similar topography.
Hope it works out OK.
AJSki2fly
24-07-2020, 14:27
Your PM box is full Gary, I've sent you an email.
New Power Amp day.
Musics been through the telly the last couple of weeks...
check back tomorrow.
did u send the densen back gary?
AJSki2fly
31-07-2020, 14:20
did u send the densen back gary?
I think he may have another up his sleeve, of a different variety. :eek:
Densen in Hospital getting looked at Grant, be ready when its ready...hopefully not too long.
In the meantime I hatched a cunning plan....
more info tommorow, not at home.
Adrian's not wrong btw :eyebrows:
So, uhm, yeah.
Good to get my tunes back after a couple of weeks of having to hear music through the telly!
https://i.imgur.com/4zrIrlU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HORykVO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TGVmbwP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ca7PJPl.jpgJust set it all up, works on both channels!
YouTube music playing away in the background, Systems been off for the last week or so, let it get some heat in it.
Meridian 557
Fully serviced and recapped (with better) in Dec 2018 by ex Meridian engineer Chris Coaster.
Probably as good an example as I’d hope to find.
Been lucky with this, Right place right time and the Seller was a Gent.
Initial impressions, next level good.
This is the real deal.
Running amps completely balanced now, XLR ‘tween Pre and Power, both their best inputs.
Balanced from Dac to Pre too.
Step up over rca connection, means I can use a fancy cable to hook up the phonostage, nice boost for vinyl playback.
Calling Power amp - Done.
Happy Chappie here.
Serious amp! But I never understood why you moved on that 300B, that was excellent.
So, uhm, yeah.
Good to get my tunes back after a couple of weeks of having to hear my music through the telly!
https://i.imgur.com/4zrIrlU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HORykVO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TGVmbwP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ca7PJPl.jpgJust set it all up, works on both channels!
YouTube music playing away in the background, Systems been off for the last week or so, let it get some heat in it.
Meridian 557
Fully serviced and recapped (with better) in Dec 2018 by ex Meridian engineer Chris Coaster.
Probably as good an example as I’d hope to find.
Been lucky with this, Right place right time and the Seller was a Gent.
Initial impressions, next level good.
This is the real deal.
Running amps completely balanced now, XLR ‘tween Pre and Power, both their best inputs.
Balanced from Dac to Pre too.
Step up over rca connection, means I can use a fancy cable to hook up the phonostage, nice boost for vinyl playback.
Calling Power amp - Done.
Happy Chappie here.
good to hear.. densen to be the back up system?
Serious amp! But I never understood why you moved on that 300B, that was excellent.
It was..totally!
But it was one of those things, was that good that to get the best out of it you had to feed it top quality 300Bs.
Part of the valve amp way of ownership really, hence me stepping off.
At a grand a year for glass, cost of ownership got a bit much, hence me selling it.
Sound wise it was faultless.
It was..totally!
But it was one of those things, was that good that to get the best out of it you had to feed it top quality 300Bs.
Part of the valve amp way of ownership really, hence me stepping off.
At a grand a year for glass, cost of ownership got a bit much, hence me selling it.
Sound wise it was faultless.
Yes, I see what you mean. Those 300B valves do cost a packet. I remember when they were 30 or 40 quid and that seemed expensive then.
Firebottle
10-08-2020, 16:43
Shitstorm? :uhho:
Omnishambles?
(Hopefully not)
AJSki2fly
10-08-2020, 19:25
Straight down the dividing line, sorry meridian
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sold a few things recently, replacements coming.
Nowadays, just wanting to step off the rat-race, another box ticked that I can not think about and just enjoy the Music.
AJSki2fly
10-08-2020, 20:10
Sold a few things recently, replacements coming.
Nowadays, just wanting to step off the rat-race, another box ticked that I can not think about and just enjoy the Music.
Super[emoji106]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A while back was swithering how to get the best out my vinyl setup, particularly the best way to plonk my turntable down an a surface to get the most out of it.
Its Rega, it's fussy that way.
That and looking at alternative phonostages.
I'd thought about a Rega wall mount, but have a stone slab floor and concrete walls, so no big thrill putting the deck on the wall in comparison.
So got IsoAcoustic feet for the Rega, nice improvement and better isolated it from the glass table it sat on.
But still wanted to get it off the glass, and that was today's mission.
Was always going to stick a platform under the deck to get it up off the glass, even with the feet it wasn't ideal.
Just didn't know what or how.
Stiff n light like the deck, an Ikea "Aptitlig" bamboo chopping board. Seven quid but highly recommended and totally in line with the design philosophy of the turntable.
I know a lot of folks use the heavier Ikea bamboo butchers block, but its quite a bit heavier than this one, and with the P10 wanted to go for as light as possible.
https://i.imgur.com/ouKvt7b.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/dfC3Ckn.jpeg
Basically just plonked it down, don't like the way it looks so still to take the jigsaw to it and trim it so it just fits under the deck.
Spray it black to better match the deck as well.
Tried different feet under it, RDC cones, wooden cones, silicon nitride ceramic ball bearings in RDC cone cups, spikes...crikey you name it; just want to fix and forget it.
What works best on glass?
As I've found elsewhere with different kit on different shelves in my rack, the most effective seems to be the simplest.
SoundDampedSteel metal plates directly under the board and onto the glass.
Tried different combinations, just the SDS plates work best. Another box ticked, Job's a good 'un.
https://i.imgur.com/dzPXiTs.jpeg
Jigsaw away...”Touché Turtle” reference...
https://i.imgur.com/v71wFEp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EuJowNJ.jpg
Just need to fillet the edges and prep. before spray painting it black to match, and can call this one done. :thumbsup:
Heavy n' dense kills Rega....Opposite of how their turntables are designed.
Unlike a springy one.
I like that they are doing their own thing, can get behind that.
Unsuspended deck, so all about reducing "resonance storing" mass?
Roy Gandy's book discusses the Naiad turntable which the P10 was based off.
Specific design goals to maximise sound quality, don't want to interfere with that!
Fit 'n forget.
Good enough for Rega good enough for me, sounds good too.
AJSki2fly
19-08-2020, 20:40
A while back was swithering how to get the best out my vinyl setup, particularly the best way to plonk my turntable down an a surface to get the most out of it.
Its Rega, it's fussy that way.
That and looking at alternative phonostages.
I'd thought about a Rega wall mount, but have a stone slab floor and concrete walls, so no big thrill putting the deck on the wall in comparison.
So got IsoAcoustic feet for the Rega, nice improvement and better isolated it from the glass table it sat on.
But still wanted to get it off the glass, and that was today's mission.
Was always going to stick a platform under the deck to get it up off the glass, even with the feet it wasn't ideal.
Just didn't know what or how.
Stiff n light like the deck, an Ikea "Aptitlig" bamboo chopping board. Seven quid but highly recommended and totally in line with the design philosophy of the turntable.
I know a lot of folks use the heavier Ikea bamboo butchers block, but its quite a bit heavier than this one, and with the P10 wanted to go for as light as possible.
https://i.imgur.com/ouKvt7b.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/dfC3Ckn.jpeg
Basically just plonked it down, don't like the way it looks so still to take the jigsaw to it and trim it so it just fits under the deck.
Spray it black to better match the deck as well.
Tried different feet under it, RDC cones, wooden cones, silicon nitride ceramic ball bearings in RDC cone cups, spikes...crikey you name it; just want to fix and forget it.
What works best on glass?
As I've found elsewhere with different kit on different shelves in my rack, the most effective seems to be the simplest.
SoundDampedSteel metal plates directly under the board and onto the glass.
Tried different combinations, just the SDS plates work best. Another box ticked, Job's a good 'un.
https://i.imgur.com/dzPXiTs.jpeg
Jigsaw away...”Touché Turtle” reference...
https://i.imgur.com/v71wFEp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EuJowNJ.jpg
Just need to fillet the edges and prep. before spray painting it black to match, and can call this one done. :thumbsup:
Yep the aptitlig is a good resonance killer, I used one under a gyrodec[emoji106]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes...I’m bored.
https://i.imgur.com/U0bl2s7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vH97Ixb.jpg
Firebottle
20-08-2020, 11:54
Bored - board, ha ha.
Opti-cal
20-08-2020, 12:07
Quite turntable specific now that 'bored' . . . no going back now.
And we’re done.
https://i.imgur.com/iW00KED.jpg
Bit of sanding and tidying up to do, black paint and under the deck it goes.
Took quite a bit of weight off the board, bamboo’s a hardwood and very stiff so fits in with the Rega light ‘n stiff thing.
More importantly gets it off the glass rack without adding any weight to the whole thing.
Looks a lot better under the deck, fits in with the ‘Skeletal’ look of the decks plinth, much nicer.
(well, will be when it’s sanded and painted)
https://i.imgur.com/bB6FzHs.jpg
Also, now the damping plates are directly under the Turntables feet, which may or not do something who knows? :)
Well worth a half hour, jobs a good 'un.
Well,
Forgot I had a Dremel...useful things.
https://i.imgur.com/ZJN6wGQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DefK5dV.jpg
Front edge now mirrors the curve of the plinth, much nicer.
Front right foot I’ve done as an angled flat, might get a Rega badge made up to stick there.
Still more rough edges to smooth out, but majority of work is done.
Final sand n fillet then prime n paint.
Not much use for chopping Veg on now!
Yes, still furloughed and finding things to do. :D
Impressive bit of handiwork that Gaz. Will look like part of the TT when you've put the paint on.
Looking good Gaz, can't wait to see it finished.
Headphones back in the house after tripping over and breaking the stock 3m cable (of a hungover morning...)
https://i.imgur.com/67tBlt1.jpg
Beyer’s top cable, nice upgrade on paper over stock, see what it brings to the Party.
The Beyer Amirons are good Cans, great for late night movie watching.
Took a punt on a dedicated CD transport, already had the modded Oppo which sounded great, yeah, but not drawn to listen to CDs on it compared to vinyl or streaming?
Good Hifi sound though.
After reading some glowing reviews, picked up the Audiolab 6000CDT.
https://i.imgur.com/RJbFc7I.jpg
Could always return it if it was just 'OK', but seriously impressed by how good this thing sounds, and not just for the price.
Not much time on it but already better than the Oppo, just draws you into the song in a way the 203 doesn't.
Solid heavy construction its really well put together.
Big toroidal transformer in there for a disk spinner, attention payed to the clock before the SPDIF output and has a read ahead buffer,which was the initial draw for me.
Responds well to quality power and digital cables, which is always a good sign.
Couple of tweaks to build on what it already does:
Sat it on a set of Isoacoustics Orea feet, and put a small granite slab on top.
Standard stuff for a disk spinner.
Hooked up over coax, not many hours on it yet and if it keeps improving I might just look at a better digital coaxial cable.
The Black Car Silverstar I sold here before was the best I'd tried, and its in MKII version now.
Maybe at some point...but this things a keeper.
Seriously impressed.
Modded Oppo over i2s to Dac on paper should be better, just goes to show cant take anything for granted in this game.
Ears over specifications every time.
https://i.imgur.com/DefK5dV.jpg
Ok,
so STILL not content with it (and still furloughed) decided to “next level” it.
https://i.imgur.com/Zg9IdbM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XHSwwnB.jpg
The turntable looking the way it does, it bothered my eye having a rectangular chopping board under it, didn’t look right.
Did further work on it, to further reduce weight (stiff ‘n light, the Rega way!) I started lopping more bits off it.
The front edge and rear profile now match the shape of the skeletal plinth, cool.
Dremel’s are handy things?
The central section running up to the back foot; decided I could further reduce weight again and better match the deck’s look by mirroring the 40mm circular cutouts on the white ceramic tone arm brace running to the bearing.
I also shaped it to mirror the brace as as well, the rectangular block shape caught my eye too much.
So marked the holes, got the circle cutter out, and set to work.
https://i.imgur.com/BecUkcM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3CyyOUT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZF67yuW.jpg
Still to spray paint to match plinth and some minor finessing of some of the curve radii, (yes, I’m fussy!) but 99% done.
Happy with this, been a more than worthwhile furlough project.
Really good isolation from the glass shelf below, especially with the IsoAcoustic replacement feet and the isolation plates the board sits on.
Turntable isolation...Done.
All for 20 quid and a lot of elbow grease. :)
keeps you sane mate... looks like a good job
Densen Pre/ Power back in the house.
Run it for a few weeks then slot the Meridian back in, see which one floats my boat more.
Very different sounding power amps, Meridian is completely neutral, the Densen sounds more “seductive”, reminds me of my 300B Set, but with more grip and power.
Like em both for different reasons.
https://i.imgur.com/ylOYOSg.jpg
Ali Tait
14-11-2020, 19:08
Look great mate.
Densen Pre/ Power back in the house.
Run it for a few weeks then slot the Meridian back in, see which one floats my boat more.
Very different sounding power amps, Meridian is completely neutral, the Densen sounds more “seductive”, reminds me of my 300B Set, but with more grip and power.
Like em both for different reasons.
https://i.imgur.com/ylOYOSg.jpg
Shiny indeed.
AJSki2fly
14-11-2020, 21:13
Densen Pre/ Power back in the house.
Run it for a few weeks then slot the Meridian back in, see which one floats my boat more.
Very different sounding power amps, Meridian is completely neutral, the Densen sounds more “seductive”, reminds me of my 300B Set, but with more grip and power.
Like em both for different reasons.
https://i.imgur.com/ylOYOSg.jpg
Pleased you got them sorted Gary, they look great, be interesting to hear what you decide on. [emoji3]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yup, looking good... You can't beat Densen for 'knob-feel factor':eyebrows:
I'd expect it to sound quite different from the Meridian, but you're assessing it the right way (same as I do)... Live with the 'new thing' for a few weeks, allowing your ears to become attuned to the sound, then make the change, using a familiar test track for comparison purposes... The difference [unlikely then to be imagined] should slap you around the ears!:D
Enjoy:cool:
Marco.
Totally agree mate! :eek:
Only way to audition kit I feel.
Yup, looking good... You can't beat Densen for 'knob-feel factor':eyebrows:
I'd expect it to sound quite different from the Meridian, but you're assessing it the right way (same as I do)... Live with the 'new thing' for a few weeks, allowing your ears to become attuned to the sound, then make the change, using a familiar test track for comparison purposes... The difference [unlikely then to be imagined] should slap you around the ears!:D
Enjoy:cool:
Marco.
Finally got the turntable support finished. Yay. :D
From this:
https://i.imgur.com/dfC3Ckn.jpg
which really didn’t sit right with the modern look of the deck...?
After much clamping, sawing and Dremmeling I got to this...
https://i.imgur.com/d2r1uEJ.jpg
And finally done.
Much better!
Gets the deck up off the glass surface and looks pretty cool too. Better match for the deck, almost looks like part of it.
https://i.imgur.com/QsGnp9m.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OpzXWte.jpg
Nice wee project, worth the time and the (not a lot) spent on it.
Its great when you get these kinda changes and doesn’t cost a lot.
Might get a Rega badge made up at some point, to sit on the right front foot, as a final touch.
looks like it came with tt now gaz.. top job mate
Noice... Any thoughts on the amps yet, provisionally or otherwise?:)
Marco.
Still running the Densen Marco,
theres new components in there after its service, want to give em time to bed in.
plumb in the big Meridian again next weekend, methinks.
Ah okies, good move:)
Marco.
Ali Tait
22-11-2020, 15:16
Nice job mate, looks good.
Nice job mate, looks good.
Always liked the look of your double plinthed 401 mate, sure that was at the back of my mind somewhere. :)
Ali Tait
22-11-2020, 16:44
Aye, hopefully get that up and running sometime soon.
H’ok...
next step of the amp journey.
Taking all my findings here as relative...as it’s not through my final speakers...but the Dali’s I run at the moment are transparent enough to let me hear differences
in terms of amp drive, shifting air and general quality what I’ve got is good enough.
And I can carry the results forward when upgrading the speakers.
Up till now, for the last couple of weeks, I’d hooked up the recently serviced Densen DM30 power amp to my PS Audio BHK preamp.
Been enjoying the tunes on that setup for the last week or so.
My baseline for this comparison was against the Meridian 557 hooked up to the BHK Pre, which I ran for 6 months or so before that.
Different Pre’s hooked up to different power amps, only way to know what works with what is to listen, and trust my ears...ignoring cost, Brand name, what should work best “on paper”.
Have to say swapping in different power amps can make a noticeable difference in sound, I liked what the Densen power amp brought over the Meridian...a sense of ‘fun’ and groove about the music, but it lost something too...sounding a bit like hearing the music behind a glass wall.
You knew it was there but it seemed detached in that you observed it rather than felt it.
Too easy to engage the audiophile brain with all this stuff, (see what I mean? :D) so only trusting my ears in this.
So,
yesterday swapped in the matching DM20 Densen pre with it’s power amp sibling.
All Densen now, what’s the story?
https://i.imgur.com/uX5iC7J.jpg
Well, swapping out the BHK preamp what I LOSE, aside the general terrific sound quality of the thing, is a great built in headphone amp and fully balanced XLR connections between my Dac and power amp, using top end XLR cables.
The “on paper” part of my Hifi brain says don’t go there...
but I’ve decided to trust my ears with this.
Have various pre/power amp combinations and just want to listen, fit n forget and say amps now done, same way I have elsewhere in the setup.
Time to step off the roundabout and get on with just enjoying the music.
Densen’s sound awesome together. Wow.
From the get-go there was a sense of ‘life’ and boogie about the sound that drew you in.
Same on both vinyl, CD and digital (and even YouTube played through my Dac) there was a big, wide open valve sounding midrange that filled the room.
The amps had a warm character to them, but extremely crisp and detailed too.
At both extremes the low end was never too warm (with the implications that suggests) or the top end too detailed (with same..)
The combination just sounds “right” in a way that makes you forget about the Hifi stuff and the kit.
Well..almost.
Something in the mix is making the background hiss very slightly more than the BHK Pre setup, suspect losing the balanced connections may be a factor here.
Its very slight and it’s gone as soon as you play music, but need some time with it to see if it’s gonna be an issue.
The Densen Preamp was unplugged for months, want some time with it powered up before I make a call on what it can do.
Elvis Costello is currently playing an acoustic set in my room in a way I’ve not hear come together and sound “alive” as well before...so there’s always that to counter against it.
Enjoying the Danish supermodels for the next week or so, chilling out and letting them soak into my bones, then the final combination to try is swapping in the big beastie Meridian 557 power amp with the Densen big knobs pre.
I’ll know if any magics lost or if the British bruiser Meridian has a better chance to shine hooked up to the Densen Preamp.
Maybe lose the slight background hiss too...if it doesn’t vanish on its own with the Densen powered up for a few days from cold.
My Dacs got a lossless digital volume control, so another thing I can try is playing around with the amp setup’s gainn structure, see if that has an effect on anything.
See what happens. :)
Like everything in Hifi land, there’s always a trade off.
Getting there, and enjoying the journey, but nowadays looking to step off the kit rat-race and enjoy what I’ve got.
I'm confused, lol! :scratch:
Could you give us a précis, and outline the current state of play [your preferred option - the 'winner', as it were], as briefly and succinctly as possible, please?:D
Marco.
No winner yet matey,
until I’ve heard the last pre/power combination together, the Meridian 557 power with the Densen Pre.
So far,
Enjoying music more with the Densen combo most,
1 more combo to try, next weekend or next then I’ll make the call.
too many black boxes!
The games afoot Watson. :eyebrows:
Lolz - ah see yer thinkin' there, Batman!:D
Not surprised though that the Densies are dancin'.... They're renowned as boogie monstas!:dance:
Marco.
Yeah,
Talk about ‘air guitar’... :eek:
These Danish boxes are a bit special.
Got a thing for the record player: Origin Live Gravity One.
https://www.originlive.com/hi-fi/turntable-upgrades-modification/turntable-record-weight-best/
Not a clamp, more a weight...but even that doesn’t really describe it as there’s next to no weight in it, about 70gms I think?
Im calling it a Damper.
No vibration from bearing or chassis with my deck, but always that from the record itself?
Took a punt one one of these after reading really good reviews and wondered if it would bring anything to the P10.
It absolutely does, good improvement across the board. Seems to bring out more of the deck’s “Magic Sauce”.
Very surprised.
Adds to the look of the deck too,
part of the deal along with the custom plinth I made for it, which is always cool. :)
https://i.imgur.com/CCN39ZT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pNAWa0J.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Iyfj8DN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yHR7hfW.jpg
If it works it works, hence worth the money.
Still monkeying about with turntable isolation...
After this calling it done. Again. :)
Tried the original P10 rubber feet under the SDS plates, previously they sat directly on the glass surface.
https://i.imgur.com/qlQPHkW.jpg
So that’s:
Turntable plinth
. Isoacoustic Orea isolation feet
. Stiff ‘n light bamboo platform
. SDS isolation plates
. P10 rubber feet
The Rega feet are quite a clever design, have little “blips” at the top, further isolating what they sit under.
Rubber on glass works well I’ve found.
So,
original plan was to get the deck up off the glass surface, job done.
Been a fun wee project, and I much prefer the way the P10 looks on the rack.
it’s custom now, and has more size and presence to it.
Few visual nods here and there to other turntables I like, which is cool.
https://i.imgur.com/6cMFhcx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4hfNSSn.jpg
Nice uptick in sound, can hear a bit more space around the instruments on a good recording.
Jobs a good ‘Un. :thumbsup:
System rack’s just changed (ignore trailing cables, not set it up yet)
https://i.imgur.com/7Nnuu7l.jpg
Firebottle
30-01-2021, 08:15
Image no worky Gaz.
not for me either.. android or pc.
Ali Tait
30-01-2021, 13:33
Didn’t know you were into gaming mate?
its a good plex server too.
PC gamer since I was a kid Ali..
Got away from it recently, sit at a desk all day at work, didn’t want to do same when I got home.
Also got expensive keeping up the PC gaming hardware, and consoles weren’t cutting it quality wise.
PS5 got my attention when I saw it could do 4K 60fps, ray tracing and all that good stuff.
Previously thats high end PC territory...
At half the price of my Graphics card!
So sold that a while back, with the plan to pick up a PS5 when I could.
As Grant says,
it will do all the streaming services same as the Nvidia Shield I currently use, plumbed into the Oppo’s HDMI input, the sound gets flushed through the Dac and out the Hifi, sounds pretty epic.
So all in one media hub/gaming machine.
Home from work, kick back on the couch and chill.
Should be fun.
PS5 apparently has lots of attention paid to its audio hardware and sound quality, be interesting to see how that pans out.
Have the Oppo 203 and Audiolab CD transport for disk spinning, but be fun to compare the PS5 as a cd and 4K Blu-ray player.
Didn’t know you were into gaming mate?
hifinutt
30-01-2021, 19:40
some lovely kit gary
have you seen this ?
https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/densen-put-up-for-sale-by-thomas-sillesen.251052/
Cheers Phil.
I knew Densen was at risk, but news to me that the Founder was letting it go.
Shame, a great company.
Hopefully someone will pick up the Company and invest in it.
Today I was mostly...
https://i.imgur.com/JJRZvP3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lEZhYWK.jpg
Enjoy YouTube for playing music through the system, some really great sounding concerts n video’s out there, it’s a valid music source imo if played back through a good system.
Bit of an unusual setup for that here, in that I stream YouTube (and Netflix etc) from a box hooked up to the HDMI input of my Oppo 203, into the Dac over i2s connection.
So giving YouTube n stuff a fair crack at sounding pretty good if the quality is there.
Previously used an Nvidia Shield android box for this, recently plumbed in a PlayStation 5 to replace it and from the get-go it was obvious it’s audio was better than the Nvidia box plumbed into the Oppo.
Reckon maybe the CPU grunt the thing has, and the attention paid to the audio subsystem for gaming, maybe a nice side effect?
Cool,
nice bump in quality over what I had before for enjoying tunes on YouTube.
My kit is powered from a hardwired 10KVA balanced mains transformer, two Tails coming from it: One hardwired to a Wireworld shutko mains block feeding all the main black boxes and another hardwired to a linear psu feeding my router.
Only six inputs on the Wireworld block, so all other bits n bobs, the Nvidia Shield, USB hard drives and the like were connected to a typical cheap n cheerful mains block plugged straight into the wall.
Was very impressed with the jump in audio the PS5 had over the Nvidia box, even when plugged into a cheap mains block straight into the wall.
Got thinking though... :D
Balanced mains really improves the systems sound, why is a digital source you enjoy a lot of music from plugged into a cheap power strip and not fed by the balanced mains??
Had a spare Wireworld Matrix star earthed mains block, so decided to remove the BMU rail feeding only the router PSU and hardwire the 2nd Wireworld mains block to it.
That done, I could power the PS5 and all the other bits, not just the Router, from the Balanced mains.
That was this afternoons fun n games, and I’ve just powered everything back up and sat down.
Very worthwhile couple of hours,
I’m all for getting the most out of the kit you own, and Sound quality’s taken another jump again, everything’s bigger, clearer and more solid sounding.
Everything you’d expect with removing mush from the power supply.
New crimped connections, in my experience of doing this kinda stuff for a while now it takes a week or so for new electrical connections to bed in properly, so just enjoying it and if it gets better great.
Using supplied “wet string” figure 8 mains cable with the PlayStation, and hearing how it responds well to clean power I’ll stick a good Fig-8 mains cable to it at some point, either DIY or something from Mark Grant.
Happy Sunday for enjoying the tunes, always nice when a plan comes together. :)
sounds good... and yes, the cpu and possibly the psu will improve things..
Ali Tait
08-02-2021, 12:37
Agree on youtube, I play a lot of stuff too. If you have anything using a switching power supply, it may be worth trying feeding them from another socket rather than the BMU, reason being they can inject noise back into the mains which the BMU should keep away from the rest of your kit.
Agree on youtube, I play a lot of stuff too. If you have anything using a switching power supply, it may be worth trying feeding them from another socket rather than the BMU, reason being they can inject noise back into the mains which the BMU should keep away from the rest of your kit.
Tried both in the BMU and into another mains block elsewhere Ali,
Was a thought I had too, but everything just sounds better through balanced power, seems to be.
Ali Tait
08-02-2021, 19:25
Fair enough, go with whatever sounds best mate.
Fair enough, go with whatever sounds best mate.
Yup,
the old “Hifi on paper Theory” vs actually trying it in your own setup...
Was aware of it, and from an EE point of view it makes sense, but when was this Subjective hobby of ours ever about anything except what hits your own (subjective) ears!
Could have been the colour of my socks on the Day, but currently enjoying a very definite best sounding option. :)
(Sanity checked it over the next few days...and...Better sounding.)
brian2957
09-02-2021, 09:46
Didn't know you wore socks ( or other accoutrements ) mate :lol:
Love to hear this system :(
One day soon(ish) Amigo, fingers n toes crossed.
Incoming...
pics to follow tomorrow.
brian2957
06-05-2021, 19:06
Looking forward to this :popcorn:
Posties been...
https://i.imgur.com/PbDq9wp.jpg
Ali Tait
07-05-2021, 18:15
Look nice mate.
AJSki2fly
07-05-2021, 18:20
Posties been...
https://i.imgur.com/PbDq9wp.jpg
You TV looks a bit small [emoji3]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
nothing beats New Speaker Day.
nothing beats New Speaker Day.
You Betcha :)
Lawrence001
07-05-2021, 19:30
Ah yes I remember when my last big pair of speakers turned up. The biggest speakers I've ever owned. They're still here.
Ah yes I remember when my last big pair of speakers turned up. The biggest speakers I've ever owned. They're still here.
I used to run with Impulse H2's.... :)
They were bigger!
Yeah what happened to those, last I saw you were doing a re-build?
More time this morning to sit down for a listen after setting them up yesterday.
Will take some time to run in, not too fussed about that it'll happen in its own time.
https://i.imgur.com/ua8A9i8.jpg
,https://i.imgur.com/joXRnQB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NNXyrDF.jpg
Yeah what happened to those, last I saw you were doing a re-build?
Still "work in progress" :doh:
Really need to get em finished, cabinets all repainted, crossovers done, just the woofers to refoam then put em back together.
Will get done, soon... Ish... Probably.
I think you'll hear the benefits of a good three-way loudspeaker. Looks like they've got plenty of room to work in too so that'll help.
Like the curved cabinet design?
Know it'll benefit sound quality, but looks good too.
https://i.imgur.com/VYTxBfM.jpg
Will be replacing the supplied biwire links with jumpers I'll make up from my existing cable.
Have a set of the KLEI silver banana connectors for this, make em up with Cardas silver solder like I did with the main cables.
That way, same cable and connectors throughout.
Fit n forget.
https://i.imgur.com/F08RCmJ.jpg
Whilst running them in I'm not too fussed about fine tuning placement n stuff, just let them do their thing for a few weeks then get them dialled in.
Really large boxes, but the curved cabinets makes them less imposing in the room?
The colour helps them blend in too.
Drive units look good, a bit unusual with the AMT tweeter and mid cone, be a shame to hide them if I stick the covers on.
Always found speakers sound better with them off.
Tried putting the covers on... Naa.
No real difference in sound, just reminds you there's two big-arse boxes in the room.
Covers.. Off.
https://i.imgur.com/ZjF7TwR.jpg
Happy Days, gonna enjoy these. :)
I think you'll hear the benefits of a good three-way loudspeaker. Looks like they've got plenty of room to work in too so that'll help.
Yeah, reckon your right Martin.
From everything I've read about these the 3 way design has been done well.
They are ported, but not front or back but downward firing from the base of the speaker through a slot in the base of the cabinet/ plinth.
So not too fussy being close to a back wall, but big boxes like these need some room to breath as you say.
Front baffles just under a meter from the wall, a spot that seems to work well in the room.
Their impedance dips down to 4 ohms, which will bring out more grunt from the Meridian power amp, which, at 200 wpc into 8, can shift serious ammounts of air.
Should be a good match for the speakers and wring the best out of them :thumbsup:
With the new Speeks and the latest software upgrade to the Dac (wow :eek:) it's been a good week.
walpurgis
08-05-2021, 08:16
What are your initial impressions of the sound from those Gary?
brian2957
08-05-2021, 08:38
Wow! They look fantastic mate. Can't wait to get over for a listen. Enjoy :)
yeah, different . what happened to the impulses mate?
Stonkingly good Geoff,
BIG sounding.
Obviously sounds gonna be all over the place till they settle in, bass sounds a bit sat on and a bit lightweight, way way deeper though than the wee Dali floorstanders I had in before.
Lots more to come in the bass department.
The mids and top end are very open, but don't shout out at you but rather invite you in to hear the detail?
All the subtle inflections in well recorded voices are there, sense of the recording venue is strong.
The clarity and openness of the sound stage remind me of a good panel speaker actually, sure its the AMT tweeter doing it's thing.
Have a play list in Roon of the MTV Unplugged stuff, your kinda in the room with the better recorded ones.
Neil Young ones a cracker, as is the Eagles.
Hotel California blew my socks off, never heard it like this. Picked up a lot of stuff I hadn't heard before.
First (Relieved!) takeaway after a couple of hours with them is that they work really well in my room.
Phew!
walpurgis
08-05-2021, 08:59
What's the sensitivity? Not that the big Meridian would break a sweat :).
What's the sensitivity? Not that the big Meridian would break a sweat :).
89dB, so quite easy to drive.
Some folks running them with 30wpc amps.
The Meridian should drive em well!
Look great in the room Gary, especially with the grilles off :cool:
They’ll run in pretty quickly if memory serves me.
That big amp won’t break a sweat at all and they can go loud very cleanly too.
They’re not boomy or porty in the bass at all so you might need to couple them straight to the floor to flesh that out.
Also, I’ve mine toed-in to firm up the centre image a bit but yours is a bigger room.
AMT tweeters have quite narrow directivity so toeing in will help with that. Good tweeters though, no 'tinsel' effects.
yeah, different . what happened to the impulses mate?
See my earlier reply to Macca!
Still a bit of work to do on them Grant, not quite there yet.
One day... :)
Thanks Chaps.
Will get them dialled in properly with a few weeks under their belt, be interesting to see where that goes.
I've read that the IsoAcoustic Gaia footers are great for these speakers, so might swap the stock feet for a set of Gaia's further down the road.
AJSki2fly
08-05-2021, 11:03
Like the curved cabinet design?
Know it'll benefit sound quality, but looks good too.
https://i.imgur.com/VYTxBfM.jpg
Will be replacing the supplied biwire links with jumpers I'll make up from my existing cable.
Have a set of the KLEI silver banana connectors for this, make em up with Cardas silver solder like I did with the main cables.
That way, same cable and connectors throughout.
Fit n forget.
https://i.imgur.com/F08RCmJ.jpg
Whilst running them in I'm not too fussed about fine tuning placement n stuff, just let them do their thing for a few weeks then get them dialled in.
Really large boxes, but the curved cabinets makes them less imposing in the room?
The colour helps them blend in too.
Drive units look good, a bit unusual with the AMT tweeter and mid cone, be a shame to hide them if I stick the covers on.
Always found speakers sound better with them off.
Tried putting the covers on... Naa.
No real difference in sound, just reminds you there's two big-arse boxes in the room.
Covers.. Off.
https://i.imgur.com/ZjF7TwR.jpg
Happy Days, gonna enjoy these. :)
They do look rather nice Gary, be interesting to hear how you find then with the 557, I am still considering finding a 557 myself to try out with my speakers, and compare to the Allnic. I think you will also like the H2's with the 556 once you have them up and running, so you may then have a dilemma.
Cheers
They look good, Gaz, and certainly suit the aesthetics of the room (and that of your existing system). You're quite right, initially, to just plonk 'em down roughly where they look right, and get used to how they sound first before getting too anal about the positioning - the fine tuning will come later, and once you find their true 'sweet spot':)
From your initial description of how they sound, it sounds good, with plenty to keep you entertained, musically. Just watch that, along with the amps and your T/T, you don't overegg the balance with a somewhat 'sparkly detailed'/brightly lit, mid-forward sound, at the expense of tunefulness and tonal warmth, as that's what I often hear with modern gear: it can have an addictive 'fresh & zingy' sound, but often lack a little 'meat on the bone'..
Therefore, when the time is right, I'd concentrate on eliminating the 'lightweight' sound you're hearing, although much of that will be the drivers still being 'stiff' and needing to loosen up a bit (in that respect, I'd be playing a low-level music signal through them, 24/7, say Spotify, or whatever on repeat), which should open them up nicely, and ensure that for speakers of that size they deliver all the weight and visceral intensity that they should, so that they satisfy you at the bass end, as much as in the mids and top.
Other than that, enjoy, and keep us posted how things develop!:cool:
Marco.
Thanks Adrian, Marco.
Hear you on the forward mid sound, can be an issue in some scenarios for sure.
My Dac is known for being quite analogue sounding (whatever that is) and speakers for not being in your face shouty, despite the AMT tweeters reputation.
Neutral sounding amps too, the Pre has a valve input stage so a good musical balance overall.
Which as Marco says is important.
Was looking for what I had but with more oomph and scale.
Had Roon playlists playing in the background all morning, bass is already changing. :eek:
They were a big hit at the Bristol Hifi show couple of years back, found a good demo on T'Tube, in fact was this one that got me curious about about the big Wharfedales.
https://youtu.be/-tfprDU8944
Been enjoying me some Portishead, Groove Armada and Chemical Brothers.
:eek:
Ok, these speakers do bass. Lots and LOTS of bass.
Starting to open up a bit now too, more of that 'sounds coming from the side' thing going on.
Very very cool.
And...
Some Massive Attack flapping my trouserlegs...neat.:)
Good stuff, mate, and noted. Sounds like you're on the right track, then:)
How much were the Wharfs?
Marco.
AJSki2fly
08-05-2021, 13:15
Thanks Adrian, Marco.
Hear you on the forward mid sound, can be an issue in some scenarios for sure.
My Dac is known for being quite analogue sounding (whatever that is) and speakers for not being in your face shouty, despite the AMT tweeters reputation.
Neutral sounding amps too, the Pre has a valve input stage so a good musical balance overall.
Which as Marco says is important.
Was looking for what I had but with more oomph and scale.
Had Roon playlists playing in the background all morning, bass is already changing. :eek:
They were a big hit at the Bristol Hifi show couple of years back, found a good demo on T'Tube, in fact was this one that got me curious about about the big Wharfedales.
https://youtu.be/-tfprDU8944
Been enjoying me some Portishead, Groove Armada and Chemical Brothers.
:eek:
Ok, these speakers do bass. Lots and LOTS of bass.
Starting to open up a bit now too, more of that 'sounds coming from the side' thing going on.
Very very cool.
One thing I noticed is that you seem to be sitting rather a way back from them, if you are sitting near to the rear wall then you are likely to get exaggerated bass through reflection. If the speakers are 6 feet apart I would try sitting with your head 6-8 feet from them. Also try toeing in so they pointing at the side of your head.
If this works then mark with tap where the front of the speaker is. Then move them forward 6 inches, and listen from the same position, if better then try moving the forward 1/2 inch at a time until it goes off, then move back to best point. If moving 6 inch forward made them worse then move back 3”, and re-listen, if better try 1/2 inch back and/or forward until best is found. If moving them forward from the original position made no improvement at any point, then move them back 6” and move 1/2” at a time until you get best sound.
When I say sound I mean the best bass definition and clarity, so pick a really good track which you knows has great and depth, also listen for when the speakers disappear and the soundstage is just behind them with clear instrument separation, you will then have the sweet spot. Stick with one track throughout or it will get confusing.
I apologise if I have told you stuff you already know, but it may help.
Cheers
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lawrence001
08-05-2021, 14:18
I used to run with Impulse H2's.... :)
They were bigger!Not having this, I'll measure mine when I'm home [emoji38]
Adrian,
All great info mate thanks!
Be looking at all this stuff in forensic detail after a few weeks of running the boxes in.
So much stuff variable ATM, hard to make a call what the speaker actually sounds like!
Needs a bit of time to bed in, then I'll be getting the Slide Rule out...if a jobs worth doing, do it right.
Only plonked them down, spirit levelled them bob-on on their spikes and left well alone.
Fine tuning to follow, and it's worth doing. A bit soon though, but all in good time.
Thanks mate.
look quite nice those gaz... hope they are up to your gear... which is pretty good stuff:D
Not having this, I'll measure mine when I'm home [emoji38]
You absolute measurebator... ;)
look quite nice those gaz... hope they are up to your gear... which is pretty good stuff:D
Let's hope so...
My First shout was a pair of 4.5K Sonus Fabers...
Hearing what I'm currently hearing though, my current thinking is Yeah OK, think my definition of " Good Enough" has been Autobahn driven past at 200 MPH..
Wow.
These speakers are good.
Lawrence001
08-05-2021, 14:55
Impulse H2 1160mm H x 270mm W x 480mm D
Volume 0.150336 m3
Amphion Krypton 1370 x 240 x 470 mm
Volume 0.154536 m3
Nuff said [emoji16]
Impulse H2 1160mm H x 270mm W x 480mm D
Volume 0.150336 m3
Nuff said [emoji16]
mine(edingdales) are near that but lightly less
Good stuff, mate, and noted. Sounds like you're on the right track, then:)
How much were the Wharfs?
Marco.
£1200,
A chunk of change in anyones money, just lucky that I got a pay rise and the Annual bonus this month...
4cm shorter....
Monty you Terrible cu...
SORRY, LAWRENCE YOU absolutely terrible Human Being...
Nuff respect. :)
AJSki2fly
08-05-2021, 15:52
Adrian,
All great info mate thanks!
Be looking at all this stuff in forensic detail after a few weeks of running the boxes in.
So much stuff variable ATM, hard to make a call what the speaker actually sounds like!
Needs a bit of time to bed in, then I'll be getting the Slide Rule out...if a jobs worth doing, do it right.
Only plonked them down, spirit levelled them bob-on on their spikes and left well alone.
Fine tuning to follow, and it's worth doing. A bit soon though, but all in good time.
Thanks mate.
Quite agree that you need to let them bed in. My WB's were about 4 years old when I acquired them but they had only been used a few hundred hours. As you know I do a lot of listening, and my system is often playing radio or streaming. I reckon that in a year they have done about 1000 hours, what I found interesting is that they seemed to open up and sound better after about 6 months.
I noticed that you paid £1200 for the Wharfedale EVO 4.4's and were also considering Sonus Faber's. However in my experience price is not always everything in audio/hifi products. Every now and then a manufacturer produces a gem of a product which is not that expensive in relation to the level of sound quality it produces, and can exceed/equal other far more expensive products from others. Wharfedale should know how to design and build a great speaker, after all said and done they have been around a long time. I actually think some manufacturers deliberately over inflate their prices to create an air of exclusivity, when in fact their products are not any better than others out there, its just a matter of finding the VFM products that give great results.
Reading through the reviews for the EVO 4.4's it looks like you may have found a gem. Once you have got them bedded down and optimised position then it will be very interesting to get your thoughts.
Quite agree that you need to let them bed in. My WB's were about 4 years old when I acquired them but they had only been used a few hundred hours. As you know I do a lot of listening, and my system is often playing radio or streaming. I reckon that in a year they have done about 1000 hours, what I found interesting is that they seemed to open up and sound better after about 6 months.
I noticed that you paid £1200 for the Wharfedale EVO 4.4's and were also considering Sonus Faber's. However in my experience price is not always everything in audio/hifi products. Every now and then a manufacturer produces a gem of a product which is not that expensive in relation to the level of sound quality it produces, and can exceed/equal other far more expensive products from others. Wharfedale should know how to design and build a great speaker, after all said and done they have been around a long time. I actually think some manufacturers deliberately over inflate their prices to create an air of exclusivity, when in fact their products are not any better than others out there, its just a matter of finding the VFM products that give great results.
Reading through the reviews for the EVO 4.4's it looks like you may have found a gem. Once you have got them bedded down and optimised position then it will be very interesting to get your thoughts.
Strong Agree.
These speakers are Special.
Is there better?
Course there is
Point is,
Hearing stuff I've not heard in songs I've enjoyed for over 30 yrs now.
Not Hifi stuff either, Don Henley doing the MTV unplugged concert, never heard THE MAN sing better.
It's a breathing Human being singing on Stage. Never heard it portrayed better.
Very little time on these speakers, way past the point of asking if these were the right choice.
More to come I'm sure
They are a Peter Comeau design, downtrickled tech from the top flight Elysian range.
Those are Sonus Faber level, at least price wise.
No idea of perceived value, never heard 'em.
Would love to hear the Elysian speakers, the 4s are a substantial speaker, big room needed I would think.
Glad these are working out so far Gary.
I admire your experience on not rushing things, sounds like you’ve been here before a time or two!
Would love to hear the Elysian speakers, the 4s are a substantial speaker, big room needed I would think.
Glad these are working out so far Gary.
I admire your experience on not rushing things, sounds like you’ve been here before a time or two!
Maybe just once or twice....
£1200,
A chunk of change in anyones money, just lucky that I got a pay rise and the Annual bonus this month...
Wow, is that brand new, mate? If so,it looks like a bargain to me!:)
Marco.
Lawrence001
08-05-2021, 18:29
Funny how what goes around comes around. Well not quite, but I used to have a pair of Wharfdale Laser 400s they had the well known isodynamic tweeter and lovely treble. I'm sure these are much better, but then they cost a lot more!
Wow, is that brand new, mate? If so,it looks like a bargain to me!:)
Marco.
Aye,
Brand Spankin...
Definitely a bit of a bargain, even if you just factor in the build quality.
Think like the Audiolab CD Transport I picked up, these speakers are future classics.
Been playing all sorts of music through them since early this morning, never heard my system sound this good.
Maybe hearing properly now what the rest of my system can do?
Funny how what goes around comes around. Well not quite, but I used to have a pair of Wharfdale Laser 400s they had the well known isodynamic tweeter and lovely treble. I'm sure these are much better, but then they cost a lot more!
Used to have a set of Wharfedale Delta 30's.
And a set of the big E90's. (Comet Specials)
Funny how it all works out...
Delta 30 are the only bad Wharfedales I ever heard. They were their bargain basement speaker back in the day though.
AJSki2fly
08-05-2021, 19:48
Aye,
Brand Spankin...
Definitely a bit of a bargain, even if you just factor in the build quality.
Think like the Audiolab CD Transport I picked up, these speakers are future classics.
Been playing all sorts of music through them since early this morning, never heard my system sound this good.
Maybe hearing properly now what the rest of my system can do?
As I learnt to my cost, you have to find the right speakers to get your system to sing, if you have a good amp then it’s just a matter of getting a good speaker you like and suits the rest room imo
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Aye,
Brand Spankin...
Definitely a bit of a bargain, even if you just factor in the build quality.
Think like the Audiolab CD Transport I picked up, these speakers are future classics.
Been playing all sorts of music through them since early this morning, never heard my system sound this good.
Maybe hearing properly now what the rest of my system can do?
Quality...Well, based on how they look, and your impression of their sonics, which I don't doubt, I'd say that they deserve an official AoS 'SPPV' badge of approval!:cool:
Look forward to hearing them when I next visit the auld country [and I bring my DAC]:)
Marco.
Nice one mate.
September sounds good for me too.
Cool - we'll make it a date:)
How about getting some of the Scottish mafia together?:cool:
Marco.
Ali Tait
10-05-2021, 05:51
Could be a plan.
Obviously dependant on the whole Covid shebang...
Fingers crossed.
Indeedio... Although by September I'd expect things to be back to normal enough to ably allow it:)
Marco.
Ali Tait
11-05-2021, 14:16
Aye hope so.
Been finagling' over the weekend...
Looked at a few things:
1. Improving Network setup for better sound
2. Modding some kit, just for looks
3. Speaker wiring and setup
Fun weekend :)
NETWORK:
Taking an interest again in tweaking my computer audio, have VM Broadband Superhub, connected to Router/access point in the livingroom, with all bits n bobs wifi'd and hardwired up to it.
SO:
Superhub > 18M cat6 > (Spider Crab below) > more long Cat6 > Music computer
https://i.imgur.com/VciTL6F.jpg
About 25m or so of ethernet cable, 'tween Superhub, Router and Roon Linux based Server feeding the music, so decided to improve on the setup of that.
Recently got Superhub 4 from VM, and decided an improvement would be to cut out all the extra Cat cable, the Spider Crab router and bring the Superhub into the livingroom.
Less cable, less power supplies, more direct connection.
Virgin wanted £99 for a non fault callout, so bugger that, and made up the cables to move it myself.
Decided to improve upon supplied VM coax cable (Why not?) and bought a run of Webro WF100 (best of gear) and Cablecon 5.1 F-Connectors.
Not screw in type, but heavy solid crimped connectors, the cable is 1mm solid core pure copper, and cable is properly shielded.
Anyway, Job done, Superhub is in system rack now, bought a linear PSU for it and powering it from balanced mains.
All about eliminating/reducing electrical noise and steps I took were more than worth it.
Superhub logs show rock solid (and better) signal/ noise ratio and consistent power levels. Before they varied throughout the day.
Download speed rock solid now too.
Next step is to build a fanless SSD based Roon Server, powered from linear PSU/balanced mains and stick that in system rack.
Eliminate a long run of ethernet cable from the setup, as well as a bog standard PC feeding up music files.
Oh,
and Superhub look kinda cool at night too in the rack...kind of a Tron vibe
https://i.imgur.com/FkluGar.jpeg
Which led to point 2
(Not sound related!)
Always liked blacked out gear, back in the day I "Knight Rider'ed" my M2Tech Young Dac :mental: :ner:
https://i.imgur.com/4Or3KKb.jpg
Picked myself up a PS5, fantastic source for all things YouTube, Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ and the like
Wonderful sound fed into the HDMI input of the Oppo, zapped over i2s to the Dac.
...and the White was nice 'n all, matched Nipper, and the new speakers but kinda stuck out in the rack?
https://i.imgur.com/n8LSbuy.jpg
Darth Vader's PlayStation...That'll work.
Much better!
https://i.imgur.com/g94negu.jpg
Speaker shenanigans tomorrow.
How did you 'paint it black'?
How did you 'paint it black'?
Not painted,
PS5 is a Modular design, the white side plates are designed to be removed for cleaning exhaust vents of cooling system.
Happy bonus is you can swap the sideplates out, and I fitted some black 3rd party ones.
Looks much better blacked out I think, matches the PS Audio gear well.
Ah right. Yes it does look better.
walpurgis
14-06-2021, 07:44
Ah right. Yes it does look better.
Yeah. Black is best in my book. (where possible)
looking good Gaz... top job as usual mate.:)
How did you 'paint it black'?
I see a red door
And I want it painted black
No colors anymore
I want them to turn black
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvP1JEUJe1Q
And to round off the weekend of fun.
Some time on the new speakers now, have a feel now for their sound signature, so time to start messin' around.
From the factory they come fitted with the usual link bars hooking up the biwire terminals, though these ones look kinda cool.
https://i.imgur.com/NC0H1YO.jpg
First step was to remove these and fit better speaker cable jumpers and see what the effect of that was.
Have some unused Duelund DCA16GA tin plated copper in cotton and oil I bought for my Impulse H2 refurb (one day!) so cut of 4 small lengths of that, just to hear the effects of removing the link bars.
Speakers were already great, so this was going to be interesting.
https://i.imgur.com/UQk2k9r.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/prKQ3pC.jpg
... and
its true what you read.
Get rid of the supplied bars with any speaker that comes with them, the sound just opened up, no more slightly muddled top end, details were coming through a lot better.
Ran with those for a couple of days to get used to the sound of those.
Very good, nice improvement over before, soundstage had opened up a fair bit too.
So far so what, but this is where it gets a bit more interesting. :eyebrows:
Remembering I had 2 lengths of the Duelund 16GA sitting in a drawer and being really impressed with the sound of just using short lengths for jumper cables, I thought about how I could better make use of the new cable hookup options I had between the new speakers and the big Meridian power amp.
Well:
Biwire terminals on the speakers, so why not hook up the Duelund as a 2nd run of cable to the amp, see how that affects things?
Use my current Morrow SP7 MkII with Eichmann KLEI connectors for the bass, and the Duelund for the Treble?
At this point I was just experimenting, still feel the speakers need some time on them to fully open up, but just enjoying the music meantime and not over thinking it.
So stripped the Duelund back to fresh wire and connected it to the Treble terminals of the speakers.
My original plan was to make up jumpers made from the Morrow cable terminated with the same KLEI silver banana plugs, (Go on any forum and Biwiring benefits are moot...), so original plan was to run jumpers of the same cable and call it done.
I was just playing around with options, so why not?
Speaker connections done, now to the amp.
https://i.imgur.com/FUq1uu7.jpg
Oh...
I'd forgotten about that...
Last speakers I used only had 1 set of binding posts , so I'd hooked them up to the meridian using 1 set of terminals.
The 557 power amp has a trick up its sleeve, its a dual mono amp.
Two separate amplifiers in one chassis.
Share the same Toroidal transformer, sure, at least the primary winding, but was only thinking about testing biwiring never mind...possibly getting benefits of biamping, or even monoblocks?
With my previous Dali Zensor 5's (from the Meridian's point of view) I was using half of one amp for the bass, and half of the other for the treble.
If I ran two runs of cable, and hooked it up Monoblock style: (One internal amp for one speaker the other for the other) the speakers would be much better served from the power amp.
Cool, hadn't thought of that, wonder how it sounds in comparison?
Speaking of that transformer, its a 1.6KVA and can deliver clean 30A down to 2 Ohms.
So a bit of a beast.
The Meridian pretty much doubles up watts at half impedance and at 200 watts @ 8ohm I wasn't worrying too much about measurements...I knew power delivery wasn't going to be an issue.
The Wharfedale speakers' impedance curve generally dips down close to 4 Ohm, and according to the Meridian 557 manual utilising both sets of terminals would result in best sound quality if you have speakers with biamp terminals.
Effectively running the amp as Monoblocks: One amp for one speaker the other for the other.
https://i.imgur.com/Ro9apAN.jpg
And did it give the best sound?
Short answer:
YES.
Step change better.
"No substitute for cubic inches" as they say, feel the speakers are being driven an awful lot better than before.
Low end grip, rock solid soundstage...all the hifi buzzwords.
The Meridian is a beast.
Probably hearing more of what its capable of now.
Standout moment I think is listening to Agnes Obel live?
Rock solid piano notes, appearing in space and having the "thwack" of a drum hit, and the reverb of that taking over 10 seconds to fade away from its space in the soundstage, whilst other stuff was going on at the same time.
Never heard this before, never heard my system sound so "live music" and in the room.
Ali Tait
14-06-2021, 17:54
Sounds like you’re getting a good result mate, nice one.
Opti-cal
15-06-2021, 08:26
Hi Gaz,
I have recently been experimenting with my jumper cables (as my speakers require 10 in total!).
I was also very pleased with the Duelund stuff which was an upgrade from Van Damme/Mark Grant/Tellurium Q Ultra Blue, then I gave some of this a try.
It's quite thick so you can split it or buy thinner gauge to begin with but its an absolute cut above. Everything more, everything.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000828091166.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.38394c4ds HY7sF
Fair enough, might not make as big a difference on some systems with less jumpers but for the price it's worth a try I reckon!
I just connect them using bare wire for 'purest' signal transfer. If the bare wire oxidizes I have a load more to just put in plus I don't think it will actually deteriorate to be honest.
Big upgrade for me and the price was right.
https://i.ibb.co/pK68rNh/IMG-20210529-124201-348.jpg (https://ibb.co/KsckzBK)
Ali Tait
15-06-2021, 15:25
Looks like it’ll be high capacitance, which may be an issue in some systems.
Opti-cal
15-06-2021, 15:55
Looks like it’ll be high capacitance, which may be an issue in some systems.
Yes entirely possible but can also use a thinner gauge (so less strands in total) I believe the improvement may be due to each strand having its own individual dialectic (teflon) and the increased capacitance is outweighed by the improvement in clarity. As well as the OCC cable sounding better than OFC. I may try some non individually stranded cable at some point (one dialectic) but it does sound excellent in this configuration. As always system dependent potentially.
Firebottle
15-06-2021, 17:17
High capacitance to what?
There are two 'plates' to a capacitor, I don't see another one. If you mean between each cable then they are all at the same potential so a non issue IMB.
High capacitance to what?
There are two 'plates' to a capacitor, I don't see another one. If you mean between each cable then they are all at the same potential so a non issue IMB.
Agreed - but maybe the suggestion is that those strands with the clear insulation are separated from those with the coloured insulation, each set then being connected together and the whole used as a two-wire system. Now that would have high capacitance. But capacitance is not much of a concern with speaker cables. Far more important are low loop resistance and low loop inductance.
I'm amused by the belief that the long crystal size achieved by the Ohno continuous cast process is maintained once the wires are plaited together, or bent into a radius which exceeds the wire's natural bend radius. I'm also sceptical about the 99.99999% copper purity claimed; China is known for the often poor quality of copper it produces.
Firebottle
15-06-2021, 21:48
Having moved to OCC for interconnects and speaker cable I can attest its superiority for signal transfer.
Opti-cal
16-06-2021, 07:41
I'm amused by the belief that the long crystal size achieved by the Ohno continuous cast process is maintained once the wires are plaited together, or bent into a radius which exceeds the wire's natural bend radius. I'm also sceptical about the 99.99999% copper purity claimed; China is known for the often poor quality of copper it produces.
I am amused by the improvement in SQ I'm getting from cables costing a pittance. :ner: The copper is not produced in China, I think most of it is mined in Taiwan/Malaysia possibly. Whether their claims of purity are accurate or not is inconsequential to me so long as they sound better, they do.
Whatever works for you is fine by me. Happy listening :)
(Regardless of where the copper ore is mined, the refinement will be carried out elsewhere.)
Interesting cable that Chris, and not expensive either just for the ammount of cable you get for your money.
Similar construction n design philosophy to the Morrow SP7 I use too.
(Individually insulated cores)
https://www.morrowaudio.com/pages/ssi-cable-technology
Some more modding schennanigans on the way... :)
Lining up my next system project, this one should be a doozy.
Similar to what I did with my Oppo 203 HERE:
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?56087-Hey-guess-what-I%92m-about-to-do-Major-Oppo-mods
I'm looking to hot Rod my PS Audio Directstream Dac.
That, along with the Oppo, are the hub of the digital setup and any gains here will lift the whole system.
So will improve a lot of things, Streaming, CD playback, YouTube music, Netflix movies...etc.
I'm looking at:
1)
Upgrading the audio transformers on the Analogue board with beefier, quieter, better ones.
The first (post prototype) dac was originally designed around these specific transformers, but lesser ones were used when it went into production to keep the cost down.
Drop in replacement, Same pin arrangement as the stock one, desolder and fit.
Probably get someone else to do this work, bit above my paygrade soldering skills wise!
Big thread over on PS Audio forums about it, all saying upgrades take dac to the next level.
Should be good. Someone else's pics that's done the Mod.
On their way from Germany, should land sometime next week.
Old Transformers
https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/business4/uploads/psaudio/original/3X/6/8/683ecd0c7a37159d9f9daf864cbdc2103c7c3c5d.jpeg
New Transformers
https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/business4/uploads/psaudio/original/3X/5/0/50accadcabf05dc4d73ebbae7661e420df0ee535.jpeg
2)
External linear power supply to power the Analogue board.
Need to drill out hole in back panel blanking plate to fit 4 pin DC power socket, and make up appropriate internal DC cable to sit between socket and jumper on the board.
Will be looking up best sounding hookup wire, connectors n stuff as the Project rolls on.
As to linear power supply, originally thought Paul Hynes, but I don't think they are available anymore, so looked around and found this one.
Best of the rest apparently, and matches the dacs quality well I think.
Farad Super3
https://faradpowersupplies.com/shop/204-large_default/super.jpg
https://faradpowersupplies.com/shop/en/home/56-24577-super.html#/ac_mains-220_240vac/dc_connector-5_5_2_1mm/furutech_rhodium_ac_inlet-no/fuse_upgrade-no/dc_output-5v
It's very well reviewed too.
https://faradpowersupplies.com/shop/en/content/13-testimonials
3)
Synergistic Research Orange Fuse
Have SR fused elsewhere in my system and (to my ears :)) make an appreciable improvement.
Wanting to squeeze the best out the Dac...especially as it's had its final FPGA firmware update...is a good plan, and from experience a good fuse can improve things.
Circuit breaker would be better, but cant have everything!
Looking forward to see what comes out at the end.
Wish me luck!
:thumbsup:
Speaking of fuses, this arrived this morning.
https://i.imgur.com/GTLnKvJ.jpg
Got this for the Audiolab CD transport.
It responded well to better isolation feet and case damping - the usual CD player mods - so this should bring a little extra too.
This fuse gets great write ups, and whilst at £38 its not chump change, if it improves things its money well spent.
A weekend of enjoying my CDs awaits. :D
Didn't want to go TOO crazy with a fuse for this, better to put a "good enough improvement" fuse in there and maybe improve the digital cable to the Dac later on?
Have replaced fuses with better in a few bits of kit now, and doing this can genuinely make a surprising improvement.
Best of the bunch are SR fuses imo, couple of SR Blacks dotted about and now have a Blue in my Pre-amp.
Swapped out the input 12AU7 valves in my Pre-Amp recently,
with the SR fuse added as well, really hearing what the BHK Pre can do without the bottleneck of a stock fuse in there.
Couple of SR Orange fuses coming next week, one for the big Meridian poweramp, another for the Dac.
Decided to splurge with these two, its good kit, might as well get the best out of it. :)
Tonight's schennanigans....
5A for the Meridian power amp, 1A for the Dac.
https://i.imgur.com/idkg0vX.jpg
New valve day.
Input stage/ volume control on Preamp uses ECC82 signal valves as part of the design, been running stock ones from new, over 3 years now.
Amps normally stone cold quiet, but felt one channel was a wee bit hissier than it should be, so decided to swap out the input valves.
Have faffed about (and been stung) chasing after potentially fake/tired/unreliable NOS valves, and life's too short for that hassle.
From the new manufactured 12AU7s, these Genalex Gold Lions seem to get consistent praise used across different amps, so went for them.
My Preamp responds well to valve improvements, see how this goes.
Will need a bit of time on em to bloom of course.
All good stuff, and at 70 quid for a matched pair won't break the bank.
https://i.imgur.com/NApDGRg.jpeg
Out with the old, In with the new.
https://i.imgur.com/4w4x1zA.jpeg
Gold Lions are replacing the stock Psvane's.
Should be an interesting weekend of listening.
Opti-cal
03-12-2021, 13:54
Out with the old, In with the new.
https://i.imgur.com/4w4x1zA.jpeg
Gold Lions are replacing the stock Psvane's.
Should be an interesting weekend of listening.
I snapped a pin on the Psvane's I had in a phono stage and replaced them with Gold Lion's. I preferred the Gold Lions no doubt.
They're the thinking man's tube for me. As in don't actually have to 'think' about it too much as all their models perform very well. Yes you can get so called 'better' tubes but the ball ache of sourcing NOS and genuine tubes (especially well matched) is just getting a bit tedious if you ask me.
They're the best new production tube I've heard.
Enjoy.
Cheers Chris,
that’s good to know.
Your thinkings the same as mine I think,
been down that NOS rabbit hole, just not a chase I can be arsed with any more.
Ali Tait
03-12-2021, 17:50
Yep know what you mean mate, it's a real minefield nowadays, and just getting worse. Just glad I've already got all the small valves I'll likely need.
Last Christmas present to myself, and last round of tweak level upgrades for 2021.
Better isolation feet for Pre and Power amps, as well as my Dac.
POWER AMP
Had previously just plonked the big Meridian 557 down on stock rubber feet onto glass top shelf of my rack, would get around to something different at some point?
Its a bit of a beast at 60lbs, with a heckin’ big and heavy transformer, so knew directly onto glass wasn’t the best way to sit it.
Isoacoustics to the rescue.
Patented design, and used around the world in top recording Studio’s, that’ll work for me.
Use some of their Orea feet under my turntable to good effect, and had their studio monitor stands in the past, so know from experience these work really well.
Each foot takes up to 20Lbs, so 4 under the amp is perfect.
https://i.imgur.com/ARx5TQx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/B4POJjh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WPEmG5p.jpg
PREAMP AND DAC
These isolation pucks have an operating performance window, based on weight of what you sit on them?
Unlike the Meridian, my Preamp and Dac are much lighter at 22lbs each,
so different products were needed.
Again,
Isoacoustics to the rescue.
you match the product to the weight, so got a set of the 8 smaller Isopuck Mini’s, each takes 6 lbs, so 4 under each bit of kit.
https://i.imgur.com/WERS1hr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RBnPGE0.jpg
So that’s all that done then, what was the result?
Noticeable change in two areas:
Good improvements to soundstage and bass definition.
The system gets out the way better, overall a nice step up.
At £65 and £77 for both sets, didn’t break the bank, and great bang for buck for what they cost.
Highly recommended.
donmarrese
25-12-2021, 18:36
Last Christmas present to myself, and last round of tweak level upgrades for 2021.
Better isolation feet for Pre and Power amps, as well as my Dac.
POWER AMP
Had previously just plonked the big Meridian 557 down on stock rubber feet onto glass top shelf of my rack, would get around to something different at some point?
Its a bit of a beast at 60lbs, with a heckin’ big and heavy transformer, so knew directly onto glass wasn’t the best way to sit it.
Isoacoustics to the rescue.
Patented design, and used around the world in top recording Studio’s, that’ll work for me.
Use some of their Orea feet under my turntable to good effect, and had their studio monitor stands in the past, so know from experience these work really well.
Each foot takes up to 20Lbs, so 4 under the amp is perfect.
https://i.imgur.com/ARx5TQx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/B4POJjh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WPEmG5p.jpg
PREAMP AND DAC
These isolation pucks have an operating performance window, based on weight of what you sit on them?
Unlike the Meridian, my Preamp and Dac are much lighter at 22lbs each,
so different products were needed.
Again,
Isoacoustics to the rescue.
you match the product to the weight, so got a set of the 8 smaller Isopuck Mini’s, each takes 6 lbs, so 4 under each bit of kit.
https://i.imgur.com/WERS1hr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RBnPGE0.jpg
So that’s all that done then, what was the result?
Noticeable change in two areas:
Good improvements to soundstage and bass definition.
The system gets out the way better, overall a nice step up.
At £65 and £77 for both sets, didn’t break the bank, and great bang for buck for what they cost.
Highly recommended.I was banging on about these beauties in 2018
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elencoheaven%2Enet%2F forum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D29876%2E0&share_tid=29876&share_fid=41959&share_type=t&link_source=app
Was advised by Mark Westley of Tresham fame about these supports ... predominantly used to support studio monitors on the edge of mixing desks....
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
I was banging on about these beauties in 2018
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elencoheaven%2Enet%2F forum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D29876%2E0&share_tid=29876&share_fid=41959&share_type=t&link_source=app
Was advised by Mark Westley of Tresham fame about these supports ... predominantly used to support studio monitors on the edge of mixing desks....
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Hi Don.
Yup,
very impressed with these.
Mark Westley, that's the Tannoy Head Production Engineer?
Be picking up another set of the 8 Mini pucks for under my Oppo 203 and Audiolab 6000CDT.
Highly recommended Peeps.
Let the 2022 shenanigans commence
Where I'm coming from nowadays, System wise...
is to make the most of what I have.
Who knows what financial pressures are round the corner, right?
Last major upgrade i did was better speakers, a big jump for sure and now hearing more of what the rest of the kit is capable of.
With that in mind...and having enjoyed modding my Oppo bluray player..going forward to '22 I'm looking at Mods for my system.
In what way can I improve on what I have?
UP TO THIS POINT:
AC Power and all cables are a done deal.
and I've already looked at better isolation feet: (Previous post)
The Isoacoustics footers really did the business, improved things for my Poweramp, Pre and Dac.
Getting another set for the Audiolab CD Transport and Oppo 203 soon.
One additional isolation thing I want to do is for my speakers,
and replace the supplied spike feet with better.
Speaker/floor interaction can be a big deal and getting this right will make a difference.
Current setup:
https://i.imgur.com/REyTxIP.jpg
I had the speakers sitting on a big heavy ceramic floor tile, sat on carpet before - my Impulse H2's had bass that went through the floor and the slabs helped.
Never thought to remove them for the Wharfedales, but tried it and with the spikes sitting on Sound Damped Steel isolation plates (black discs on carpet) the Evo 4.4's bass and soundstaging improved.
Had initially thought about IsoAcoustic's own GAIA replacement speaker feet,
but these are quite large, would raise the tweeter height too much and kinda ruin the aesthetic of the speaker.
Painfully expensive too, not Stillpoints money but still too salty.
Read a lot of the American hifi forums and the guys over at Herbies Labs in the US are highly thought of?
Be picking up a set of their speaker isolation feet, and sitting my speaker spikes in those to replace stock Wharfedale spike pads.
Well priced too.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2267/3225/products/cs_gliders_3_110x110@2x.jpg?v=1569270214
After this I'll call speakers DONE.
that should keep u busy gary... hows the espressos working out??
Done any room treatment?
Tried that Martin,
felt it robbed the music of some "life"?
Luckily, any bass room nodes seem to be out of earshot :)
Something that worked though was when I got the new speakers I measured out the room, with "correct" distance ratio's for placing the speaker away from rear and side walls.
That worked well for soundstaging and bass, nice improvement.
Technically my rooms a good candidate for treatment, huge glass picturframe on back wall, large windows to one side, but it kinda just works.
Tried that Martin,
felt it robbed the music of some "life"?
yep that can happen. Not something you can do haphazardly. Plus sometimes a room just works with the normal furnishings and more is overkill.
I just have a little to absorb first reflections and in one corner to kill some bounce I was getting. Need to do the opposite corner too but haven't got around to ordering the glue to put the foam tiles up. I'll do that now I think while it's on my mind :)
that should keep u busy gary... hows the espressos working out??
Enjoying my (sensibly moderated) two cups of black gold per day.
Have the Sage Grinder dialled in to give the right ammount of coffee for the PID settings I've settled on with the Lelit.
There's two programmable brewing Presets you can dial in,
after a bit of trial and error I'm more than happy with the results, and as both grinder and machine are programmed in the results are consistent too.
Santa Claus brought me some 'propa' accessories for the machine, improved on the coffee quality a fair bit?
https://i.imgur.com/VY2oh94.jpg
Using a heavy Tamper with the machine makes things a lot better than the plastic lightweight dollhouse patio table that came with it.
The 58.5mm size was recommended for my machine, so went with Lelit's own.
Makes for a far better result,
Weighs a ton though!
:thumbsup:
yep that can happen. Not something you can do haphazardly. Plus sometimes a room just works with the normal furnishings and more is overkill.
I just have a little to absorb first reflections and in one corner to kill some bounce I was getting. Need to do the opposite corner too but haven't got around to ordering the glue to put the foam tiles up. I'll do that now I think while it's on my mind :)
Was Marco's recommendation,
he was right on this one!
...don't let on I said that though :D
looks good; nice jug too
Was Marco's recommendation,
he was right on this one!
...don't let on I said that though :D
lol.. what is it? a fellows maybe?
First up for 2022
PS AUDIO Directstream Dac Upgrades
The push here is to try and improve on what is already a great sounding Dac?
Its unusual in its FPGA architecture in that it doesn't have a "dac chip" as such, and its sound can be improved with firmware updates.
It came out in 2015 and every year since PS Audio has provided these free upgrades.
All things come to an end though,
PS Audio are working on a MKII version with improved internal components, higher spec FPGA chip, improved transformers and the like.
So no more annual Firmware improvements.
Not all's lost though. :thumbsup:
The Dacs designer Ted Smith, a frequent poster on the more technical aspects of his Dac on the PS Audio forum
suggested a few ways his older MKI Dac could be improved, as He wont be writing any more firmware updates for it.
There is a LONG "Modding the Directstream Dac" thread on PS Audio forum and all of these mods have been successfully done by many folks.
All say they lift the Dac up to the next level.
I've already fitted an SR Orange fuse internally in the Dac,
it responds well to clean AC power, so lets find out.
I'm gonna do them all.
NAMELY:
1.
Improved analogue output board Transformers
For BOM cost savings they went with cheaper ones in 2015, the better ones the Dac was designed around are still available, and are a straight pin replacement swap out.
I have the improved Transformers, and will ship out the Analogue board to get someone handier with a soldering iron than I to swap them out.
2.
EMI/RFI suppression inside the Dac.
Placement of this material at key "noisy" areas inside the Dac to reduce electrical noise.
(Complete underside of digital board, Rear of the display, key chips etc)
I have several sheets of Stillpoints ERS Fabric for the job.
3.
Independent linear power supply/ Isolation of the Digital and Analogue stages of the Dac.
High End digital designs like DCS, MSB and the like make effort on clean power, and separating the digital and analogue stages.
Its all about reducing electrical noise and cross-talk inside the Dac.
As luck and circumstance would have it,
A community spirited, US based PS Audio fan and Electrical Engineer over on the Forum:
Designed, manufactured and sold as a Forum "Group Buy" a power supply control board, to do exactly this and allow the Analogue board to be independently powered by its own linear power supply.
I was in on the Group Buy, and have the linear power supply board. Will be buying quality LPS for the Dac later this Year.
SO WITH ALL THAT SAID,
Some open heart Dac surgery to commence!
https://i.imgur.com/RpKZkaF.jpg
Can't do everything right away:
1. Don't have a linear power supply to isolate/separately power the analogue board
2. Getting improved Transformers fitted by a 3rd party
https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/business4/uploads/psaudio/original/3X/5/0/50accadcabf05dc4d73ebbae7661e420df0ee535.jpeg
What I can do though:
1. Have the Stillpoints ERS fabric, will fit it in recommended places to reduce internal RFI/EMI in the Dac.
https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/business4/uploads/psaudio/optimized/3X/c/f/cf3737d2af5b0d20a29e0f0b061341aaee09ecd0_2_1332x10 00.jpeg
2. Will fit the power control card anyway, as its designer says it lowers noise "as is" in the dac due to its high quality filtering.
https://i.imgur.com/66xKjfu.jpg
Here goes,
Wish me Luck! :eek:
lol.. what is it? a fellows maybe?
Bialetti.
"Propa" Italian gear, to match the machine. :cool:
Really inexpensive too, about 12 quid?
Feels great quality.
brian2957
14-01-2022, 13:39
Looks interesting. Hope it all works out OK buddy :)
Bialetti.
"Propa" Italian gear, to match the machine. :cool:
Really inexpensive too, about 12 quid?
Feels great quality.Looks good mate. Machine must be settling nicely as you don't bother posting [emoji3526]
Mine is doing fine too https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220114/8741ce111b643ce31ed46006f1c39412.jpg
Looking good Grant.
Still don't have a Tamping mat yet.
It TOO is on zee List...
Looks interesting. Hope it all works out OK buddy :)
Thanks Brian,
Don't work Fridays, so spent today doing the Modding work that I could do up to this point,
Fitting the Power supply control board, and the Stillpoints ERS fabric internally in the Dac.
Basically the goal here was to isolate the digital input board as much as possible, especially the more "noisier" chips like FPGA and the like.
Completely isolated the back of the digital board in the ERS stuff, as well as all the digital inputs.
Only use 2, the i2s for my Oppo and the coax for the Audiolab CD Transport, and both have been treated.
All done,
tested and working and plumbed back into the rig.
Its making music, so thats always a good sign.
:)
From a complete power shutdown,
The Dac takes a day or two to get back on song so casual tunes over tonight and tomorrow, then I'll sit down for a proper listen.
Be fun to observe the changes these mods have made, immediately after powering on the first track I put on the Audiolab (Trevor Jones' "Excaliber" Score), the sound was "different" noticably more 3D and beefier, a bigger sense of scale to the music?
Reduction of noise on the digital side and possible better internal power filtering with the power control board fitted, so makes sense.
Good stuff,
the guys at PS Audio who recommended these mods really know their stuff.
Some fun listening over the weekend to come.
Will post Photos of the Mods over the weekend,
bit knackered, dinner and telly calls.
(and maybe a wee dram too, did well getting these mods done today. :D)
brian2957
14-01-2022, 19:44
All part of the hobby mate. Enjoy :)
All part of the hobby mate. Enjoy :)
I appreciate (and endorse) this Sentiment.
ok,
couple of days on the Dac Mods now, hearing what they brought to the table.
The Display PCB of the Dac:
https://i.imgur.com/REPYNji.jpeg
Double sided tape doing it's thing:
https://i.imgur.com/uJ6xjrQ.jpeg
Material cut to shape and applied.
https://i.imgur.com/97ZWBrq.jpeg
The Dac's touchscreen display is a big culprit in chucking in excessive RF and EMI noise.
Digital board removed.
Every screw turn a heart in the mouth "Will I cock this up" moment :eek:
https://i.imgur.com/vpeuhqt.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/n64GPD7.jpeg
Treating the Digital Input Board:
https://i.imgur.com/WrH8FMQ.jpeg
Material cut to shape and selectively placed bits of double sided tape applied to the PCB.
The Stillpoints ERS fabric stuff is conductive (carbon fibers in it), so not taking chances and covering the exposed edges with electrical tape.)
Phew!
Happy that's done.
https://i.imgur.com/57k95SD.jpeg
Digital Board and Transformers with RFI/EMI treatment:
https://i.imgur.com/2xJFDxh.jpg
Fitting the Power supply control board:
PS Audio (In their wisdom) made their Dac a "modular" design?
in that they built in an Expansion port, which enabled you to take the option of fitting their Network Streamer Card.
As said previously,
A community spirited Electrical Engineer and PS Audio Fan did a thing.
(based on the Dac Designers suggested improvements to his outgoing Dac design, at "end of life" with no further Firmware upgrades) took his recommendation as an upgrade of splitting the analogue and digital stages and powering them independently and created a Thing.
He designed, manufactured and did a Group Buy on his PCB design, which does exactly what Ted Smith the Dac designer suggested.
Plug n Play.
After fitting the board and some internal power cabling rerouting,
I now have the future upgrade option of powering the Analogue section of the Dac independently with a Teddy Pardo/ Paul Hynes level linear power supply.
How cool is that? :)
https://i.imgur.com/J6hrt6x.jpeg
All good.
The presentation has changed in a way that's noticeable, and its a significant improvement.
Its a step change better, on a par with listening to the same Album on Vinyl I'd say.
Happy I did the Mods,
More to come when I swap out the analogue output board Transformers,
which is a very significant improvement from the PS Audio Folks that have already done all the Mods.
youve been busy.. at least your hearing an improvement and had fun doing it:D
youve been busy.. at least your hearing an improvement and had fun doing it:D
This is the Way... :)
Refer All and Sundry to my "Modding my Oppo 203" post...
More games Afoot there.
Cracked open the case of my Dac again today.
Some more RFI treatment after doing some more reading up on it.
I'd already tried maxing out the digital section by adding Stillpoints ERS fabric to select chips,
a lot of trial and error, definitely a case of less is more.
After a lot of reading about RFI/EMI and its harm to digital circuitry I looked at the Dac's analogue board this morning?
There's two (digital related) areas on the board that were potentially electrically noisy, and wanted to to see if the Stillpoints stuff would make an improvement there.
1.
A 28 pin digital "switch" chip, that controls the interaction between the digital and analogue boards (tied in with controlling signals through the connecting ribbon cable)
2.
The corresponding Crystek Oscillator (clock signal generator)
I've taken the Dac as far as it will go with this ERS stuff I think?
sounding pretty great and a nice jump up from stock.
I wouldn't touch anywhere else on the analogue board, the Stillpoints stuff works primarily on digital circuits.
If you add too much it masks the upper freq's and dulls the sound. (as was when I initially used it on the Dac's output Transformer).
So two more mods to do then I'm done on the Dac front:
* Fit better specced, beefier Edcor XS440 transformers to the Analogue board, swapping out the stock TX's.
* Install a quality external regulated linear PSU to power the Analogue stage independently from the digital stage.
(Looking at a Farad Super3, Paul Hynes or the like.)
Meanwhile, enjoying the improvements today's shenanigans brought. :)
As usual,
took a couple of pics:
https://i.imgur.com/UxMvlAJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ixSJfIh.jpg
another job tidily done gary.. your getting good at those things now.
That Stillpoints fabric looks interesting Gary. Where would you recommend trying it other than in a DAC?
Thanks Grant,
Its good fun and always a result when you can eek out more performance from your kit. :)
Jimbo,
Initially I was tempted to just try it everywhere,
TOTALLY the wrong approach.
Some things I found:
- Less is more, its easy to overdo it and kill the high end.
- Keep it away from anything analogue - digital circuits only.
- The amount of harm on digital components from RFI-/EMI (clocks and the like) seems to vary with frequency, the high end being more effected?
That's why sound gets muffled and loses air at the top end if you overdo the Stillpoints stuff.
- Keep it well away from toroidal transformers - kills the sound.
Where I've used it
As well as on my Dac (as shown) I've used it on my Oppo 203?
Again, anywhere near the transformer or analogue output stage and it deadens the sound.
Each HDMI socket has a dab of the Stillpoints stuff on top of the socket casing, and each HDMI cable I use has a loop taped around the connector.
Improved picture is very noticable.
I've done this will all my HDMI cables, inc. into PS5 and AppleTV - Upgrade your cables!
https://i.imgur.com/13Fso0x.jpg
I'm looking into where else its been used by other folks.
I'm sure on CD players it will work somewhere, not just (I think) on the digital output.
The oscillator and any other bits n bobs related to the clock might benefit.
Its very much a case of trying and seeing what works though, unfortunately.
The Stillpoints ios great stuff if your of the Tweaky mindset, and works great if not over used.
Highly recommended.
https://i.imgur.com/13Fso0x.jpg
I would tidy up and re-file your LPs! :eek:
Wash your mouth out Sir!
in alphabetical order by Artist
(yes, I'm that sad)
:D
Wash your mouth out Sir!
in alphabetical order by Artist
(yes, I'm that sad)
:D
Refile them so they are upright, and not at an angle where they will eventually become deformed. :D
Ah,
ok Boss, will do. :eek:
Might have a go with some of this magic fabric Gary. Which are the most critical areas to try first?
Refile them so they are upright, and not at an angle where they will eventually become deformed. :D
Done. :thumbsup:
https://i.imgur.com/lGTt6JZ_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=grand
Might have a go with some of this magic fabric Gary. Which are the most critical areas to try first?
what will you be using it on James?
what will you be using it on James?
I have a DAC and a DDC. I use a USB A - B cable from laptop to DDC and coax from DDC to DAC.
Id start James with anything related to the clock signal?
Does your kit have any kind of displays?
Chips on these are notoriously noisy.
Dac chip might be a good candidate too, depending on how its been implemented.
Avoid any regulators, capacitors, putting ERS fabric on these killed the high end.
I’d stay away from transformers too.
Worth giving it a go,
let us know how you get on!
Id start James with anything related to the clock signal?
Does your kit have any kind of displays?
Chips on these are notoriously noisy.
Dac chip might be a good candidate too, depending on how its been implemented.
Avoid any regulators, capacitors, putting ERS fabric on these killed the high end.
I’d stay away from transformers too.
Worth giving it a go,
let us know how you get on!
Thanks for the recommendations Gary. I will start with the clock and DAC chips first. Will let you know how it goes.:cool:
A good day for headphones
:thumbsup:
Fed up with a 3m cable trailing across my floor watching at night.
Got these for movie n TV watching using the AppleTV over Bluetooth.
Need to take a piss during a movie, no problem!
The earbuds are for work and music on the move.
Wearing glasses, a mask and headphones got a bit annoying... Too many layers!
Both really well reviewed, and sound great apparently.
Cool.
https://i.imgur.com/K1iHaux.jpeg
I Like Sony gear so I would presume these will sound pretty decent?
Ali Tait
02-04-2022, 17:28
I have the WH XM3, they are excellent mate, you won't be disappointed.
not heard the 4's but heard good things; ive heard the mk3... ive a set of the 900's and they are very good, although i think i prefer my new bose 45's to them.
Good to hear some hands on experience of them, Cheers guys.
Yeah, did a bit of digging around the internet and these kept coming up as go-to's... so I did.
What Hifi winners don't you know :lol:
Today's Dac upgrade.
Still trying to eek out the maximum from my Directstream dac.
Already done firmware upgrades, RFI treatment, custom footers and power cable upgrades, this is the final word on fuses with it.
https://i.imgur.com/KWJpnc3.jpg
Swapping out from an SR Orange for this,
which is being transplanted into the Audiolab CD transport.
Have a Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 silver in the Audiolab already, that's getting bumped down into the Primare Phono stage.
So a 3-in-one kinda deal on fuse upgrades.
:thumbsup:
I've found the SR's get consistently better sounding as you go up the range (though felt the Blue was a bit "hifi" sounding?), so expecting better sound with the Purple over the Orange.
By all accounts from what Ive read its significant.
See how it goes.
(yes, they make a difference, all else being equal)
:mental:
Cool.
you must be over the worst of covid if you're back to tweaking :D
you must be over the worst of covid if you're back to tweaking :D
Ha!
More about keeping my sanity during it…
Ha!
More about keeping my sanity during it…
welcome to my world;)
good your no worse at least.
Cheers Grant.
Keeps us out of Trouble :)
Purple fuse is next level good.
Big step up over the Orange.
More to come too as it runs in. (Owned most SR fuses, speaking here from own experience)
Less of a choke point I guess, letting the balanced mains better to its thing with the Dac.
*Sigh*
Ah well, another few to get then, and call this madness done.
Watch out for billy bargains here on Orange Fuses when I’m up to putting an Ad up.
More Purple in the house,
This time a 2A for the BHK Preamp.
https://i.imgur.com/5CrKN7m.jpeg
The Meridian power amp will be getting a 5A one next.
Thats the amps and Dac as good as they can be.
On the fence about the Audiolab CD Transport?
Have an SR Orange in (transplanted from the Dac) and not convinced I can hear any improvement over the £40 Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 silver I had in there before.
Maybe hit the sensible stopping point with the Audiolab.
Got a tube of Deoxit to go round all the connections, including the fuses.
Another wee bump in the right direction I guess.
If SR brings out a 'yellow polkadot' fuse next year, Count me out.
Gotta stop somewhere.
:eek:
Ali Tait
07-05-2022, 14:32
Just need one for yourself now.:D
Just need one for yourself now.:D
Ha! :eek:
It's ok Ali,
I run hardwired and fuseless.
Ali Tait
07-05-2022, 14:50
Don't burn out.:lol:
Another Purple in the house,
this time a 5A for the Meridian 557 power amp.
Thats Pre and Power amps done, as well as the Dac.
These things are (imo) component level upgrades.
Not always the case, the SR Blues I never got on with.
What I know now is I'm getting the best from my PS Audio/Meridian gear as well as all the benefits the balanced mains brings.
Clean power matters more than you might think.
All "choke points" eliminated.
Daft money of course for (on paper) just "fuses"
reality though;
off the scale VFM for the audio improvement you get for what you pay.
From experience,
They take a few weeks to loosen up and fully do their thing,
As always will sit back and enjoy it when it all shakes out.
Cool.
:thumbsup:
https://i.imgur.com/0C2tEaP.jpg
Minor wee tweak,
Still out to eliminate noise in the electronics as much as possible.
My Preamp has lots of unused inputs,
Thought Id cover the RCA jacks with sonething that might reject any noise coming in through the unused input jacks.
Couple extra for the unused rca sockets on the dac too.
Dont want to use shorting plugs (they have own problems) so alternative is these Oyaide rca caps.
Not just plastic covers, have a coating thats meant to help block any potential noise.
Made from Sendust, which was used to coat tape heads back in the day.
Couple of quid each, didnt break the bank.
Will it make a difference?
Some say yay, some say no.
If it helps protect the sockets then thats good enough for me.
Cheeky wee Rega badge too for my TT black custom platform
https://i.imgur.com/39yeJNf.jpeg
Naa...
Kills the top end and 'air' in the sound.
Ah well.
Not so much then.
Rega badge looks cool in place, so a result there. :)
Due to an 'Unforced error' playing records coming back after a night out,
(Great idea eh? :doh:)
My Rega cart is back at Rega HQ for a full rebuild.
As learned lessons go, not the cheapest, but value wise pretty great.
Shout out to Rega customer service.
H'anyway,
Carts gonna be away for a few weeks, so in the meantime fitted one of these.
Dynavector DV-20 X2 low output moving coil.
https://i.imgur.com/t8AhHtq.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/fOHVyVg.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/OySkaCN.jpeg
Not quite the Apheta 3, but still pretty great.
Been months since I played the Blackstuff, happy to be back!
deary...:doh: naughty boy :D
It's not a bad cartridge to be slumming it with.
The trick is to get used to operating a turntable when drunk.
Pigmy Pony
27-07-2022, 17:50
It's not a bad cartridge to be slumming it with.
The trick is to get used to operating a turntable when drunk.
Expensive thing to get used to. If I 'had people over', I only played records early on. As soon as things started getting messy, switched to CD. My party tunes on CD number a couple of hundred, I can only think of four on vinyl.
Ali Tait
27-07-2022, 20:55
Bummer Gaz, vinyl can be an expensive pastime. After swearing off MC’s after trashing my Gullwing, I went and bought a Kiseki Blue…
I have accidentially damaged a couple of cartridges over the years. One a Grace F9E/14E hybrid (https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?13799-Thoroughly-%93pissed-off%94&highlight=pissed) where I snapped the boron cantilever, and the second: a 'nuded' EMT TSD15 where I managed to break one of the lead out wires from the coil!
Bummer indeed, fortunately Gary you have a replacement cartridge of suitable quality to tide you over.
Thanks Guys.
Aye,
lesson learned...stay away from the naughty naughty when tipsy whipsy.
Could be worse,
could have been a Gullwing like Ali's...
Think I'd have thrown myself out the window if that happened to me!
Ali Tait
29-07-2022, 21:18
I did think about it lol.
Rush2112
30-07-2022, 16:24
The words from the dealer should have been ringing in my ears "whatever you do, only use the mounting bolts supplied" as he loaned me his Demo Ortofon MC3000mk2.
So of course, I knew better, thats why I had steel allen head bolts for cartridges even those with ceramic bodies !
So allen key in hand I applied that final bit of pressure. What followed seemed like a distant clap of thunder but alas no, it was the sound of the ceramic mounting lug departing from the cartridge body !
Thank goodness for household accidental damage insurance.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220730/5787abd93517488d332bea3670b0adcf.jpg
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
sure he was chuffed :doh: still we all make errors. glad u had insurance.
Rush2112
30-07-2022, 18:05
Well that was about 30 years ago and we still spend about an hour on the phone when we call each other!! He's no longer a retailer, he's now a designer manufacturer and distributor. So I think he's got over it ! Nevertheless a valuable lesson learned always "listen to" or read the instructions.
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
I too have damaged a cartridge that was loaned to me - though it wasn't quite as expensive as your MC3000. And the loaner and I are still friends. :)
Rush2112
31-07-2022, 08:05
I suspect in these days of scams and fraudsters plaguing the Internet and social media very few dealers loan out equipment and certainly not without a hefty deposit or card pre-authorisation !
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
I suspect in these days of scams and fraudsters plaguing the Internet and social media very few dealers loan out equipment and certainly not without a hefty deposit or card pre-authorisation !
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
My local dealer - now long gone - would not loan equipment out, even if you offered to deposit the full asking price in cash, pick the equipment up just before he closed on Saturday and bring it back the second he opened on Monday morning. And that was back when the internet was in its infancy and the term 'social media' did not exist.
If there's no trust, then there's no business.
never been a local dealer here tnk.. you'd need to go to a city, and you being outwith city by a fair bit would likely cause them to say no.. our nearest would have been falkirk i guess then edinburgh where you would have a few
My local dealer - now long gone - would not loan equipment out, even if you offered to deposit the full asking price in cash, pick the equipment up just before he closed on Saturday and bring it back the second he opened on Monday morning. And that was back when the internet was in its infancy and the term 'social media' did not exist.
If there's no trust, then there's no business.
There was once a dealer I knew who would not sell you anything unless you had heard the item(s) in question in your own system at home. You would deposit the asking price on a Friday and take the goods away to listen to over the weekend. If you liked the item(s), all well and good, you would get a recipt and guarantee. If you didn't get on with the item(s), you would return on the Monday with them and your deposit would be refunded.
The arrangement applied to used as well as new items.
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