View Full Version : Wasn't gonna post this...
montesquieu
23-03-2017, 22:07
Which Manufacturer said this bollocks?
The geniuses that brought the world passive Quantum Inductive Coupling http://www.synergisticresearch.com/fuses/black/
... sez google
Was this Big Ted or Little Ted?
What was Hamble's input?
Hartley Hare did his usual and said, "You know what...fuck it."
The geniuses that brought the world passive Quantum Inductive Coupling http://www.synergisticresearch.com/fuses/black/
... sez google
Christ, am I responsible for this....??? :eek:
That would not have convinced me...at all.
SR are doing themselves a disservice with this stuff.
This (now 79 page) thread I linked to on my original post in this thread however did? (*)
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergistic-red-fuse
All that aside, as Marco has said, listening is the final arbiter and certainly was, and always will be, for me.
I think enough of these fuses (spendy as they are) that I splurged to get them throughout my system, and fecking brilliant they are too.
(in my opinion of course :))
(*)
Mods, why was the first half of my original post edited...the first half of its been snipped out, including the link to that other forums thread?
Whats on there now wasn't what I posted guys?
assumptions make an ass of you and me.
Anyone with half an ounce of knowse and recourse to graphene electrical resistivity measurements knows you can't make a fusible element out of it, it's too conductive, the different between a 1amp strip and 100 amp strip would be tiny. Also they need to connect it to the end caps and that requires mounting to metal and soldering. Maybe they roll a bit of fuse wire in charcoal dust but I do not for one naosecond believe they use graphene as the conductive/fusible element. It's just bullshit, as is their obfuscation of any reasoning behind the design.
If you can't see that the marketing babble is just there to lead to the phrase 'night and day difference' by the use of relatively sharp NLP then you deserve to be fleeced.
According to Wikipedia, graphene has a resistivity of 10nOhm.m. This is to be compared with a figure of 15.87nOhm.m for silver and 16.78nOhm.m for copper. So at best graphene has a resitivity of 60% that of copper, so I see no reason, apart from cost and the sheer impracticability, why it could not be used as a fusible element.
However graphene is a 2D monatomic allotrope of carbon, so needs a support substrate. If that substrate is a metal wire, then the graphene layer will have little effect (at frequencies for which the skin depth in the conductor is greater than the radius of the wire; i.e. audio frequencies) on the overall conductivity.
Even if one of these super fuses was dissected and x-rayed, it would be very difficult to actually ascertain that graphene was used in the construction. I only said they use graphene because that is what I had read, and it would account for their high cost.
Mods, why was the first half of my original post edited...the first half of its been snipped out, including the link to that other forums thread?
Whats on there now wasn't what I posted guys?
Haven't a scooby-doo. matey. As far as I know, no-one's snipped out anything, and there would be no reason for doing so...
Marco.
Haven't a scooby-doo. matey. As far as I know, no-one's snipped out anything, and there would be no reason for doing so...
Marco.
Cool. :thumbsup:
Been snipped though.
Not an issue though mate.
(*)
Mods, why was the first half of my original post edited...the first half of its been snipped out, including the link to that other forums thread?
Whats on there now wasn't what I posted guys?
Clearly the safety rubric has been added and some of your original post removed, in order to discourage others from engaging in a potentially dangerous activity.
What was "that other forum", was it the audiogon forum you cite above?
The copper bar bit for me came much much later than my OP.
Think your doing someone a favour... (not anyone here btw)
Safety paragraph was a good call, slight chance but a chance nonetheless I could have blown my kit.
Never again.
Clearly the safety rubric has been added and some of your original post removed, in order to discourage others from engaging in a potentially dangerous activity.
What was "that other forum", was it the audiogon forum you cite above?
I am surprised to see you using a ZX81. What is wrong with the ZX80, and why did you feel the need to upgrade?
Pah - Sinclair shite... Commodore VIC-20, all the way, ya bassa! :ner::D
Marco.
anthonyTD
24-03-2017, 10:40
I have to agree with others here ie; with what's been written on that website, concerning the reasoning behind the fuse affect, and solar radiation etc.
I despair when I read this stuff, I realy do.
I will share one instance of what these "marketing Guru's" are capable of, this was brought to my attention by a good friend of mine, who works at an EMC test facility, I am not sure why it was brought to his attention, but that's not relevent here.
Anyway, aparently' one of the well known HI FI tweak suppliers, not going to mention the name, [but safe to say; the letters R,and A, are relevent] were selling, and promoting a mains fuse, with a fancy label, and hyped with the usual marketing spiel, however; once the label was removed, It turned out to be a standard MK 13amp fuse!
Full marks for their entrepreneurial skills!
Just be wary folks.
And I stick by my reasoning, if a fuse has any affect on your systems sonic performance, then its more than likely due to the fact that it no longer adheres to the breaking characteristics of the original fuse type it has replaced!
A...
I am surprised to see you using a ZX81. What is wrong with the ZX80, and why did you feel the need to upgrade?
The '81 was black and matched the rest of my Kit. :D
RothwellAudio
24-03-2017, 11:18
I have to agree with others here ie; with what's been written on that website, concerning the reasoning behind the fuse affect, and solar radiation etc.
I despair when I read this stuff, I realy do.
Careful now, you're in serious danger of being accused of not having an open mind.
Besides, these guys have done research - it's even mentioned in their name. :lol:
Laugh away :)
SR's done a piss poor job here and a big chunk of that is marketing bullshit imo...but remember that none of that actually has anything to do with how your system can sound after you fit them?
Up to the individual of course, their own system, sensibilities n priorities n stuff.
Some folk just dont want to go there and thats fine, lots of room for both camps.
Wouldn't have entertained spending 9 pence never mind £90 if I couldn't at least try them first with no financial hit.
(I'm cynical too you see)
All good.
The marketing bullshit from SR on this product is indeed laughable, and seemingly designed to 'impress' the gullible and easily led. It's that kind of meaningless technobabble that does a gross disservice to the subjectivist cause.
However, the problem too is that some folk seemingly can't resist ridiculing that which doesn't fit with their 'world view'. It's the basis on which all ill-feeling and fallouts on forums stems from.
Remember that what makes YOU feel good, might subsequently piss off another perfectly decent person, and a valued member of the forum, who's only 'crime' is to believe in something you don't. Some here would do well to consider that in future, instead of just considering what's best for No1 ;)
Marco.
(I'm cynical too you see)
Sceptical, surely, not cynical? Scepticism is healthy, cynicism very often isn't.
Marco.
I like a good mix of both.
I prefer employing a (genuinely) open mind, mixed with a healthy does of scepticism. The problem is, some folks who think they're openminded are actually far from it!
Their (deeply-ingrained) belief system/dogma often prevents it from happening ;)
Marco.
I like a good mix of both.
Wot he said. :)
Seen a lot of shite spoken in this hobby of ours over the years!
Always prefer to try things for myself in my own system.
What you reads only a starting point?
Being the curious sort, I looked into the "research" Synergystic Research was speaking about (and you alluded to) and checked the detail of what you posted Andrew...
As you said, what you quoted just there is not remotely related with SR Black fuses and in fact has "fuck all" (as they say) to do with the subject being discussed, and is (in fact) for a completely different product.
I looked into that product: http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-product-atmosphere/
And the "research" they were quoting came direct from NASA.
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/spaceweather/index.html
Low hanging fruit huh?
Easy to draw the wrong inference, especially if it makes you entertaining.
As Marco touched on, At least your getting your jollys, that's what matters.
Ffs.
Here's some "info" from the website of one the fancy fuse manufacturers (about one of their other products):
"So we began researching variables that could contribute to the mystery of midnight vs. mid-day system performance and came to the conclusion that man-made and solar RF must play a significant role. This led us to research of factors that contribute to fluctions in the Earth’s ambient RF environment. Ted reasoned that if differences in RF can degrade the sound, then RF can be modeled and shaped to improve the sound.
There are three major disturbances on the Sun that affect radio propagation here on Earth. Solar Flares, Coronal Holes, and Sudden Disappearing Filament (SDF). Each disturbance causes both electromagnetic radiation and ejection of material from the Sun that alters RF on Earth. What we looked at was how each of these disturbances affects our RF environment during the day vs late at night with the intention to mimic late night conditions to improve sound mid-day..."
And it goes on. Make of it what you will.
montesquieu
24-03-2017, 18:25
Being the curious sort, I looked into the "researxch Synergystic Research was speaking about (and you alluded to) and checked the detail of what you posted Andrew...
As you said, what you quoted just there is not remotely related with SR Black fuses and in fact has "fuck all" (as they say) to do with the subject being discussed, and is (in fact) for a completely different product.
I looked into that product: http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-product-atmosphere/
And the "research" they were quoting came direct from NASA.
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/spaceweather/index.html
Low hanging fruit huh?
Easy to draw the wrong inference, especially if it makes you entertaining.
As Marco touched on, At least your getting your jollys, that's what matters.
Ffs.
Can't you read his quote?
Here's some "info" from the website of one the fancy fuse manufacturers (about one of their other products)
He doesn't say it's about fuses. He does say it's about one of their other products.
Bollocks is bollocks. People (as Andrew points out) can make of it what they will.
Yes, Yes I can.
Reread it, realised my mistake and edited my post accordingly.
Assuming you never reread mine. :)
Bollocks is indeed bollocks...no argument here with that.
Can't you read his quote?
He doesn't say it's about fuses. He does say it's about one of their other products.
Bollocks is bollocks. People (as Andrew points out) can make of it what they will.
In any area of life where there is a desire for fulfilling a need, we get;
(a) Things we want and get,
(b) Things we want and don't get,
(c) Things we don't want and do get, and,
(d) Things we don't want and don't get.
Scientific method has arrived at some verifiable truths after many years of work, but they are a work in progress and we are far from understanding very much.
So we use the science as a starting point, and then experiment further, but the results are difficult to verify because the arbiter is our own hearing experience, which has to be subjective.
If we meet others, we have the problems of ego defensiveness which are all pervasive because of our imprinted culture of competition and 'one-upmanship'.
Wouldn't it be great to be wealthy enough to hire a hotel for the weekend and all meet, with a room for each system, and just relax, put aside all that cultural alienation, try to get over ourselves and lower our defences, and try in all humility to express opinions, and determine a consensus of truth?
Bottom line is he and others here think its a worthwhile upgrade so fine. I'm happy for them. Its their money after all. Cannot see what all the fuss is about tbh.
montesquieu
24-03-2017, 19:01
Yes, Yes I can.
Reread it, realised my mistake and edited my post accordingly.
Assuming you never reread mine. :)
Not quick enough :)
walpurgis
24-03-2017, 19:06
Cannot see what all the fuss is about tbh.
Nor can I. But then, I've not read the thread. :D
Not quick enough :)
Ha! :D
We just like music and banter here Dennis... :)
What makes this forum a wee bit special is that that shared experience you speak about is bourne out in real life.
Made a few good friends from contact here and larger organised get togethers show that your not the only nutter in the house!
Lots more like us into the same things.
In any area of life where there is a desire for fulfilling a need, we get;
(a) Things we want and get,
(b) Things we want and don't get,
(c) Things we don't want and do get, and,
(d) Things we don't want and don't get.
Scientific method has arrived at some verifiable truths after many years of work, but they are a work in progress and we are far from understanding very much.
So we use the science as a starting point, and then experiment further, but the results are difficult to verify because the arbiter is our own hearing experience, which has to be subjective.
If we meet others, we have the problems of ego defensiveness which are all pervasive because of our imprinted culture of competition and 'one-upmanship'.
Wouldn't it be great to be wealthy enough to hire a hotel for the weekend and all meet, with a room for each system, and just relax, put aside all that cultural alienation, try to get over ourselves and lower our defences, and try in all humility to express opinions, and determine a consensus of truth?
Cannot see what all the fuss is about tbh.
Cannot see what all the fuse is about, meself.
Cannot see what all the fuse is about, meself.
Boom tish!
Here all week, remember and tip the Waitress... :)
Scientific method has arrived at some verifiable truths after many years of work, but they are a work in progress and we are far from understanding very much.
So we use the science as a starting point, and then experiment further, but the results are difficult to verify because the arbiter is our own hearing experience, which has to be subjective.
Spot on, which makes it somewhat ridiculous why some folk obsess so much over specs and measurements!
If we meet others, we have the problems of ego defensiveness which are all pervasive because of our imprinted culture of competition and 'one-upmanship'.
Wouldn't it be great to be wealthy enough to hire a hotel for the weekend and all meet, with a room for each system, and just relax, put aside all that cultural alienation, try to get over ourselves and lower our defences, and try in all humility to express opinions, and determine a consensus of truth?
You don't need to be wealthy, or hire any hotel, as what you've described above is what we aim to achieve on AoS :)
At the *very heart* of our ethos is the desire to allow decent people, who are genuine enthusiasts, to relax, just be themselves and say what they think, on all manner of topics, in a relaxed and friendly environment.
Oneupmanship here is grossly frowned upon, as are mouthy 'know-it-all' egotists, whose only desire is to indulge in vulgar displays of self-aggrandisement.
Marco.
Marco, regarding your latter highlighted paragraph of mine, it is not the conscious overt aspect of 'being superior' that I was referring to, but the subconscious internalised and habitual way with which we see the world every day; it is difficult to step aside form our personas and drop them, and be purely in the moment - egoless.
All sorts of religions, holidays, and therapies attempt to do this; we are so subject to conditioning, and from such an early age.
Sure, Dennis, I get that - and we all have an ego, that's for sure, although some are rather more fragile than others ;)
I do agree with where you're coming from, but the sentiments you've outlined we certainly try to fulfil here on AoS during our interactions with others.
As for conditioning, yes that's also true, but in my experience some are able to step outside of their 'insular bubbles', and see the world in a different way, rather better than others.
Marco.
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