View Full Version : Gromit's music centre...
pure sound
28-11-2013, 14:10
Now with the lights on...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3672/11090328686_0effbdae2c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11090328686/)
It is a little fruitier in triode mode Richard!
It is a little fruitier in triode mode Richard!
Aah! Thanks Guy - there are no markings on the case on this A30 to tell which way the switches should be for triode/UL. I know on my old A30 it was 'forward' for triode, in fact I dug out some old photos to confirm so could these be wired the other way around? I've tried both positions and my ears are telling me...
To rear: Full, warm, slightly sluggish.
Forwards: Leaner, faster.
That's why I've been scratching my head. :D
Whilst you're here, is it ok to switch between modes whilst the amp is live (volume at zero) or best to power down? Thanks. :)
pure sound
28-11-2013, 14:27
Yes thats ok. Volume down.
That first batch of amps didn't have the switches when they were sent over here. They were sold without however a few customers asked how to fit them & a couple eventually came back to me for me to do it. So it's quite possible that that amp could have the switches wired the other way round by an early owner. What you describe certainly suggests as much.
It's worth experimenting with the 4 & 8 ohm taps aswell.
Excellent - many thanks. :)
I'll have a play with the speaker outlets too in that case.
:scratch: l cannot keep up.
:scratch: l cannot keep up.
I'm struggling myself, Andy. :D
I'm struggling myself, Andy. :D:popcorn:
jandl100
05-12-2013, 05:50
Coo - Young Gromit's gone all glowy. :)
Sound quality is just 'KEL-like' for those familiar with it. Very listenable, sweet and detailed with a surprising amount of pep. Definitely not soft and cuddly!!
Yep, that's how I remember the sound of KEL amps. Very peppy indeed.
So how does the Puresound A30 come across in comparison?
Only real reason I sold the old A30 was because it didn't get on with my Royds - drove them fine, but they needed an amp with extremely tight bass control, especially in my room. Had the same issue with the IC Claymore in our new place - the Sony tidied things up beautifully
Interesting comments Richard have found the same with Royds from the Sorcerer to the Minstrel to (especially) the RR3. They might be 'easy to drive' but I've found they love serious power and enough damping factor to take them to the next level, losing the 'boom' with badly matched amps in favour of bass speed, delineation and texture.
Interesting comments Richard have found the same with Royds from the Sorcerer to the Minstrel to (especially) the RR3. They might be 'easy to drive' but I've found they love serious power and enough damping factor to take them to the next level, losing the 'boom' with badly matched amps in favour of bass speed, delineation and texture.
Spot on Neil - for Royds to really sing (and ye gods they can, from the highest rooftops) their tendancy to be very loose at the bottom needs reining in IME. They'll sound just fine on pretty much any amp (within reason) as they're not ruthlessly revealing, but they do need firm control to give their very best.
As it stands today after a little re-jig...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2827/11278982026_c59e9a1075_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11278982026/)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/11287916294_7dc8ac8327_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11287916294/)
Somehow I didn't think I'd be without a 770 for long - just a week or 3 in fact. I now have the perfect amp (for me) just a shame it's in 2 separate boxes. :D
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/11385512984_7e6824058f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11385512984/)
This 770's possibly in even nicer condition than my old one - which is saying something as that was virtually spotless. Thanks to Rob (Hoops) for the Sony. :)
istari_knight
15-12-2013, 17:03
My, what good taste you have Richard :eyebrows:
I've got a X303ES on the way too... Or at least will have shortly :thumbsup:
My, what good taste you have Richard :eyebrows:
I've got a X303ES on the way too... Or at least will have shortly :thumbsup:
Why thank you - we clearly both sing from the same hymn sheet. :)
Good shout on the 303 aswell, it's a v nice bit of kit. Only downside is that it doesn't have coax digi out (it's only optical) but not a deal-breaker.
istari_knight
15-12-2013, 17:15
Could always add one, easy enough to do but might be a shame to butcher it ?
hoopsontoast
15-12-2013, 17:41
Somehow I didn't think I'd be without a 770 for long - just a week or 3 in fact. I now have the perfect amp (for me) just a shame it's in 2 separate boxes. :D
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/11385512984_7e6824058f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11385512984/)
This 770's possibly in even nicer condition than my old one - which is saying something as that was virtually spotless. Thanks to Rob (Hoops) for the Sony. :)
Nice, glad it went to a good home! :)
Could always add one, easy enough to do but might be a shame to butcher it ?
You're right - would indeed be a shame. Only real reason to want coax is that my TEAC dac only has one of each, meaning I need a separate dac for the TV's sound (which is optical only too).
Thanks Rob - the amp's an absolute honey, and when you turn the wick up it bares its teeth. Just as it should. :)
Being lazy...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3735/11994407083_f9746ebcbb_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11994407083/)
The Black Adder
17-01-2014, 13:18
Looking good, Richard.
Congrats on the Sony too, a great sounding amplifier. It's nice when something just clicks isn't it.
Joe
Looking good, Richard.
Congrats on the Sony too, a great sounding amplifier. It's nice when something just clicks isn't it.
Joe
Thanks Joe :)
Yes, the 770ES is a peach (a big, heavy one at that). This is my 2nd one - very recently sold my old one to James (Istari), went off-piste for a a few weeks and came back home again with this one from Rob (Hoops). Confirmation that the Sony really is 'my' sort of amp - it just gets on with the job, sorted. It's got some serious poke too. :D
hoopsontoast
17-01-2014, 13:56
Yup, I have had 3 now and if I was going down the 'normal' speakers + Integrated route, its where I would be spending my money, only pipped at the post for outright power from a Restek Challenger, the Sony was much more flexible though.
A bit of playing around with Lightroom...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5536/12123403235_9cea376f28_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12123403235/)
istari_knight
24-01-2014, 21:55
Thats cool... Really cool !
After a break of a few years, a little bit of Mr Farlowe's finest is gracing the shelf once again...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3818/12318707363_38ab17b22d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12318707363/)
jandl100
05-02-2014, 09:51
Which bits are you taking to the Scalford Show, Richard?
Which bits are you taking to the Scalford Show, Richard?
Hi Jerry - basically, I'm taking as many bits as our wee Skoda will carry. :)
PL-71/Benz/Dino2 & NCPSU
303ES CD player & MacBook & Teac Dac.
The Sony ES & Exposure XV
Q2010i's & Snell K's
Assorted bits'n'bobs
I'm also delivering the Puresound A30 and ProAc Super Tabs to folk who've bought them so it'll be a bit tight in the car. May actually need to make 2 trips but no big deal as we're only 30-35 mins away.
jandl100
05-02-2014, 09:59
Oooo - yum!
- perhaps you'll let me look after the room for more than half hour! :)
Oooo - yum!
- perhaps you'll let me look after the room for more than half hour! :)
:D
I'm thinking the system will be fairly 'rounded' in the morning ie the Sony amp with the Dino, and the music will mostly consist of classical/ensemble/acoustic etc to nurse the hangover. The afternoon will be the Exposure amp (using its phonostage) with lots of rock/fusion/big band and swapping the speakers every half hour or so.
southall-1998
05-02-2014, 21:53
How are you getting on with the Exposure?
S.
How are you getting on with the Exposure?
S.
Patience, young Skywalker. :)
<it's rather nice> ;)
jandl100
06-02-2014, 07:08
Ha! - I recall a bakeoff in South Wales - near the end a vintage Exposure amp was installed.
Everyone there, I mean everyone, was positively drooling at the sound it made. :drool:
Except me! :scratch: - I was totally baffled why anyone would want to listen to such a diffuse, rolled-off and wishy-washy sound!
You're missing the point, they all said. Damned if I could hear the point! - I guess I'm not an Exposure kind of guy. :eyebrows:
Hopefully your system at Scalford will show me the way to the True Path, Richard. I'm much looking forward to hearing your Exposure there. :)
Hi Jerry - basically, I'm taking as many bits as our wee Skoda will carry. :)
PL-71/Benz/Dino2 & NCPSU
303ES CD player & MacBook & Teac Dac.
The Sony ES & Exposure XV
Q2010i's & Snell K's
Assorted bits'n'bobs
I'm also delivering the Puresound A30 and ProAc Super Tabs to folk who've bought them so it'll be a bit tight in the car. May actually need to make 2 trips but no big deal as we're only 30-35 mins away.
Not a lot then Richard:lol:
Ha! - I recall a bakeoff in South Wales - near the end a vintage Exposure amp was installed.
Everyone there, I mean everyone, was positively drooling at the sound it made. :drool:
Except me! :scratch: - I was totally baffled why anyone would want to listen to such a diffuse, rolled-off and wishy-washy sound!
You're missing the point, they all said. Damned if I could hear the point! - I guess I'm not an Exposure kind of guy. :eyebrows:
Hopefully your system at Scalford will show me the way to the True Path, Richard. I'm much looking forward to hearing your Exposure there. :)
Resistance is futile Jerry. :D
Actually what you said re your reaction to the amp does ring slightly true. I plugged in the XV about an hour after it arrived on tuesday and first thought 'oh lordy - it just sounds so flat and lifeless'. In other words the polar opposite to what I find so endearing about these old amps - that worried me. However...
Letting the amp sit and warm - just for an hour or so whilst I went out for bit - the thing jumped into life. Totally different, sounding bigger, brighter and with that lovely drive in the bass which Exposure amps do so well. Its phonostage is the icing on the cake, easily as good as the Dino2/NCPSU which I'm a huge fan of.
The question is Sony or Exposure, which stays?
The question is Sony or Exposure, which stays?
Now that, Seppi, is the $64000 question. :)
Would be great to keep both - they're both fantastic in their own ways. The Sony is soooo powerful, full of control and just seems to have almost limitless headroom with my speakers in my room. It also sounds slightly larger than the Exposure, and is definitely less music-dependant (ie just play what you like through - it just gets on with it). The Exposure just makes me want to leap around like a loon. :D
And the Sony has remote control - just so damn convenient. :)
Ha! - I recall a bakeoff in South Wales - near the end a vintage Exposure amp was installed.
Everyone there, I mean everyone, was positively drooling at the sound it made. :drool:
Except me! :scratch: - I was totally baffled why anyone would want to listen to such a diffuse, rolled-off and wishy-washy sound!
You're missing the point, they all said. Damned if I could hear the point! - I guess I'm not an Exposure kind of guy. :eyebrows:
Lol! Sounds to me like there was some sort of mismatch (possibly with the speakers being used at the time). Any Exposure amp I've heard has sounded rather Naim-like (when done well), but smoother, i.e. 'funky' and bass-driven, a little mid-forward, but with bags of fun-factor!
"Rolled-off and wishy-wishy" they (usually) ain't....
Marco.
Now that, Seppi, is the $64000 question. :)
Would be great to keep both - they're both fantastic in their own ways. The Sony is soooo powerful, full of control and just seems to have almost limitless headroom with my speakers in my room. It also sounds slightly larger than the Exposure, and is definitely less music-dependant (ie just play what you like through - it just gets on with it). The Exposure just makes me want to leap around like a loon. :D
And the Sony has remote control - just so damn convenient. :)
Two systems it is then :)
If you have a streamer, aka Sonos / Squeezebox you could then control the volume by iThing but for vinyl you are already out of your seat every few mins so the remote matters not :sofa:
Resistance is futile Jerry. :D
Actually what you said re your reaction to the amp does ring slightly true. I plugged in the XV about an hour after it arrived on tuesday and first thought 'oh lordy - it just sounds so flat and lifeless'. In other words the polar opposite to what I find so endearing about these old amps - that worried me. However...
Letting the amp sit and warm - just for an hour or so whilst I went out for bit - the thing jumped into life. Totally different, sounding bigger, brighter and with that lovely drive in the bass which Exposure amps do so well. Its phonostage is the icing on the cake, easily as good as the Dino2/NCPSU which I'm a huge fan of.
Pardon? l want a refund!;)
Pardon? l want a refund!;)
:D
This morning is being spent comparing the 2 amps back to back which is, shall we say, proving to be somewhat illuminating and not quite what I was expecting. It's also bloody annoying, but will leave it at that for now and get back later.
:D
This morning is being spent comparing the 2 amps back to back which is, shall we say, proving to be somewhat illuminating and not quite what I was expecting. It's also bloody annoying, but will leave it at that for now and get back later.
Sounds perhaps like it's a closer run thing than you were expecting then?
Sounds perhaps like it's a closer run thing than you were expecting then?
You'd suspect right Paul - and many folk will know what a huge Exposure fan I am. It's also bringing into sharp perspective what a stunning amp the 770ES is. The Exposure does its stuff presently and correctly - lots of bounce/life and sheer 'joy' in its presentation. The Sony matches it punch for punch, and then some.
istari_knight
07-02-2014, 12:43
It might be interesting to try your turntable into the Exposure's phono stage then Exposure's tape out into the Sony's aux in... So Expo phono stage & Sony power :eyebrows:
Best of both I'll wager.
You'd suspect right Paul - and many folk will know what a huge Exposure fan I am. It's also bringing into sharp perspective what a stunning amp the 770ES is. The Exposure does its stuff presently and correctly - lots of bounce/life and sheer 'joy' in its presentation. The Sony matches it punch for punch, and then some.
Slpendid.;)
Slpendid.;)
Sperlendid indeed Mr T. :)
But of course we all know that the Japs don't know how to make a 'musical' amp don't we? :rolleyes:
About to find out ie; the 770ES:eek:
istari_knight
07-02-2014, 16:39
About to find out ie; the 770ES:eek:
The one off the wam ?
Yup.:eek:l use a SONY TAF940R and l am hoping the 770ES will be better than that ( and l love the 940R) happy days!:cool:
istari_knight
07-02-2014, 17:38
Aha, thats my old one... And Richards before me.
You will be pleasantly surprised ;)
Aha, thats my old one... And Richards before me.
You will be pleasantly surprised ;)
Got a rough idea what it is going to sound like........:scratch: Looking forward to getting it.
Got a rough idea what it is going to sound like........:scratch: Looking forward to getting it.
I'm pretty sure you're going to love it Andy - it's a belting amp. Purely my in-built prejudices of course, but I never thought I'd hear a big Jap integrated compete - on musical terms - with my beloved Exposure amps. I really could keep either of these and be very, very happy indeed.
The Exposure wins with its phonostage which is simply fabulous - it gives the Dino2/NCPSU a good run for its money. The Dino might be slightly better - after all it's knocking on the door of £1k new with the upgraded power cable like mine has - but it's really too close to call in real terms.
Through the line inputs the Exposure has it by a nose, but use the Sony's direct input (there's only one) and it wins back slightly.
It's because of the above that I'm letting the Sony go (yes a buyer is ready and waiting). It's likely the Dino2 will go too as the Expo's stage is so good it's really rather surplus to requirements now and I have no need for MM.
Crickey, you are having a go there Richard.:D
Crickey, you are having a go there Richard.:D
Life's a merry-go-round Andy. :D
It was a really useful 3 or so hours this morning and to be honest if someone came in and offered me cash for one amp, I'd be more than happy to keep the other. There is the fact at the back of my mind that I have 2 pairs of speakers arriving soon; One pair of very nice Royd Edens, the other a pair of Snell K's. Both of which I feel (in my bones) will be a really sweet match for the XV - more so than the Sony ES.
That will be the next little home-brew bake-off, the winner staying, the loser moving on. Will report (bore you all to tears) back of course. :)
Life's a merry-go-round Andy. :D
It was a really useful 3 or so hours this morning and to be honest if someone came in and offered me cash for one amp, I'd be more than happy to keep the other. There is the fact at the back of my mind that I have 2 pairs of speakers arriving soon; One pair of very nice Royd Edens, the other a pair of Snell K's. Both of which I feel (in my bones) will be a really sweet match for the XV - more so than the Sony ES.
That will be the next little home-brew bake-off, the winner staying, the loser moving on. Will report (bore you all to tears) back of course. :)
l will bore people first,
Just arrived Trichord Dino+ phono stage- me lickey!
Michell GyroDec SE,
Benz Micro Ace SL,
SONY TAF770ES, :D
Still looking for more speakers, but these can wait.:lol:
Incoming; Michell Gyrodec SE, Benz Micro Ace SL,
l will bore people first,
Just arrived Trichord Dino+ phono stage- me lickey!
Michell GyroDec SE,
Benz Micro Ace SL,
SONY TAF770ES, :D
Still looking for more speakers, but these can wait.:lol:
Incoming; Michell Gyrodec SE, Benz Micro Ace SL,
Good lad!! :clap:
Fun at Tarzan Towers then :)
Dontcha just love trying out stuff?
Good lad!! :clap:
Fun at Tarzan Towers then :)
Dontcha just love trying out stuff?
Er not really as l am ( was) pretty settled, l blame Audio Al for bringing his TAF940R in the first place, your Dino was too good to turn down, the Gyrodec really took me by surprise l have to say- plus earned some browny points with the Mrs, the 770ES l have hankered after a while to try which came round by being cheeky and the Benz Micro, well the Gyro/SME V deserves a good cartridge.......... it all just happened at once.:lol:
Congrats on the Gyro, Andy - to this day it ranks as the longest-owned turntable I've ever had (1991-2005) so it certainly does something right. :)
The Benz is a nice bit if kit too, got mine last year (thanks Theo!) and it really doesn't do much if anything wrong.
jandl100
08-02-2014, 08:05
Drat - Sony 770ES amp, another thing on my Want List! :)
-- what sort of price is reasonable?
Drat - Sony 770ES amp, another thing on my Want List! :)
-- what sort of price is reasonable?
l am sure we can come to an arrangement Jerry:ner: l post my thoughts on this amp if anyone is interested.
jandl100
08-02-2014, 08:53
I'll have a good listen to Richard's at Scalford. :thumbsup: ... maybe I'll take my Mini-T along for a face-off! :D
Congrats on the Gyro, Andy - to this day it ranks as the longest-owned turntable I've ever had (1991-2005) so it certainly does something right. :)
The Benz is a nice bit if kit too, got mine last year (thanks Theo!) and it really doesn't do much if anything wrong.
Yup, congrats on that Andy and if you need any advice on getting the thing to bounce properly, don't jump on it (although it's tempting after the first hour watching it nod instead of bouncing :lol:) give me a shout. As above, I've had mine longer than any TT in my system, going on 8 years with no wish or desire to change it. I think at that level, the grass is always greener just not more nutritious!
Yup, congrats on that Andy and if you need any advice on getting the thing to bounce properly, don't jump on it (although it's tempting after the first hour watching it nod instead of bouncing :lol:) give me a shout. As above, I've had mine longer than any TT in my system, going on 8 years with no wish or desire to change it. I think at that level, the grass is always greener just not more nutritious!
Thanks Paul, the dealer will be setting this little lot up-if the thing ever gets here.:D
I think at that level, the grass is always greener just not more nutritious!
True - I moved onto a NAS Spacedeck after my Gyro and in a back-to-back dem I did prefer it by a nose. My Gyro was a QC-powered AC Gyro and the demo one was a DC version. The plan was to 'SE-fy' my full Gyro but thought it might be nice to have a listen to what else was around at the time.
Still, a lovely turntable - beautiful to look at, impeccably put together and from a company who, just by their attitude to their customers on its own, deserves every ounce of succes. :)
brian2957
08-02-2014, 10:39
l am sure we can come to an arrangement Jerry:ner: l post my thoughts on this amp if anyone is interested.
Yes please do Andy . This amp has been on my radar for some time now . Ta.
Sorry - this is addictive. :D
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3761/12392299055_739f40a572_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12392299055/)
Been watching Schindler's List, Richard?
Been watching Schindler's List, Richard?
Lol. Took me a minute to get that.
Been watching Schindler's List, Richard?
I can't - that film makes me blub. :(
I know what you mean though. :)
Yes please do Andy . This amp has been on my radar for some time now . Ta.
Will do Brian.:)
Well, no matter how hard I've tried to find medication for Royds, I just keep on catching the same disease (and it's flippin' grrrreat)...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2833/12501661524_2bfa7a0cc2_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12501661524/)
DSCF9015 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12501661524/) by Boxertrixter (http://www.flickr.com/people/93875151@N07/), on Flickr
A very sweet pair of Edens - not a mark on them, and on the end of an Exposure amp it's hard to sit still (as is often the case with Royds). :)
julesd68
13-02-2014, 21:09
They look the business Richard. I've only had a pair of Merlins which were a quite superb smaller speaker ...
istari_knight
13-02-2014, 21:09
The best Royds IMO :thumbsup:
... Wrong stands though :D
... Wrong stands though :D
Definitely - from experience of trying a fair few different ones under my old Merlins, they like stuff with minimal (or at least low) mass. Best ones I used before were the Something Solid SL24's which worked better than the Royd and Linn Kan II stands.
These Target ones are >30kg each and you can hear them damping the Royds' energy. Still sound damn good though. :)
How about these? Just down the road...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epos-M12s-ST12-Open-Frame-Speaker-stands-Black-/261398028273?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item3cdc895ff1
How about these? Just down the road...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epos-M12s-ST12-Open-Frame-Speaker-stands-Black-/261398028273?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item3cdc895ff1
Good spot Theo, thanks - I'll find out the dimension of the top of them. :)
I could also nick my old SL24's off my Dad this weekend - he can have these heavy Target ones in exchange.
Thanks for your recommendation a while back Richard the SL24s really are awesome for the 7l Royds. Interesting my RR3s go a lot deeper on their dedicated stands, which are bolted to the speakers via a rear plate.
Thanks for your recommendation a while back Richard the SL24s really are awesome for the 7l Royds.
They're good aren't they? :)
It was Peter Empson at Deco Audio who got me onto them some years ago when I had some Audio Note AX-2's (a very underrated speaker imho) which sounded coarse on top of the Kan II stands. The SL24's tidied things up no end, but lost none of the energy and 'zip' which the Linn stands injected the proceedings with.
When I got my Merlins I put them onto the Kan stands and was very happy - the SL24's were sat in the garage un-used. Anyway, eventually I thought I'd try them under the Merlins and kapow! It was really taken aback at what they did - Royds are never shrinking violets, and can get a little uncouth at times as we all know, but the SL24's tamed that but didn't lose one single gramme of their bounce and life. Very highly recommended, and not expensive either. :)
southall-1998
15-02-2014, 17:29
How are you getting on with the Exposure, Gromit?
I like using Linn K20 speaker cables with my Exposure X. My K20 cables are 3M in length. Are Exposure fussy about cable lengths?
S.
Shane, please take this with the inevitable pinch of salt, but K20 for some reason, sounds thick and bland in comparison with other speaker cables. I've heard this in several listening rooms over many years so not just the dem room I was most used to.
Surprised you like the Exposure X as well, as at the time I found it harsh and ringy when driven too hard. maybe the speaker cable damps it down?
Shane, please take this with the inevitable pinch of salt, but K20 for some reason, sounds thick and bland in comparison with other speaker cables. I've heard this in several listening rooms over many years so not just the dem room I was most used to.
I'd agree with this. :)
I remember some years ago (ie back in the mid-late 80's) using Naim NACA4 and then 'upgrading' to K20 and it showed the exact behaviour Dave describes above. Something not quite right about it for me, sounded bland and seemed to kill the system's sparkle.
If you don't want to spend much, I really can't speak too highly of Talk 3 with Exposure - unless you can get the original Exposure cable (which looks like NACA5 but is a bit more flexible) which I still maintain, having tried a fair few cables with Exposure over the years, is the best to my ears. Am using NVA LS6 with my Expo XV which works extremely well - worth the £ over Talk 3? Only you can decide that.
southall-1998
15-02-2014, 22:52
I don't care, I like the K20 cables so tough :)
S.
The Grand Wazoo
16-02-2014, 00:32
That's the spirit - build yer system around your speaker cables.
........excellent. Don't ever let 'em tell you otherwise!
It obviously pays not to give a flying f**k.
southall-1998
16-02-2014, 00:44
That's the spirit - build yer system around your speaker cables.
........excellent. Don't ever let 'em tell you otherwise!
It obviously pays not to give a flying f**k.
I don't give a flying FUCK!!
S.
The Grand Wazoo
16-02-2014, 00:56
I noticed.
southall-1998
16-02-2014, 00:57
I noticed.
Good.
S.
The Grand Wazoo
16-02-2014, 00:57
All is well then.
Are Exposure fussy about cable lengths?
No, they don't give a flying fuck.
Marco.
istari_knight
16-02-2014, 11:36
I've always thought K20 & Naca4 are one & the same... Is that correct ? Tried some K400 but it wasn't anything to get excited about.
As Richard says, Cable talk 3 :thumbsup:
I've always thought K20 & Naca4 are one & the same... Is that correct ? Tried some K400 but it wasn't anything to get excited about.
As Richard says, Cable talk 3 :thumbsup:
It's been an interesting exercise recently, trying different cables, and I've found that for the 770ES it absolutely sings with Van Damme Blue - there's not a doubt in my mind there, in fact I may incorporate it into a quick cable-dem at Scalford. The Exposure sounds a little too bright and brash with V-D, but great with Talk 3. Hardly suprising as Kevin Edwards, who runs Talk Electronics (not to be confused with the earlier Cable Talk who don't exist now) used to work for Exposure in the old days.
The Van Damme 'blue' is brilliant, Richard - stupidly good for the money, in fact. I use it when connecting up my Celestion 66s downstairs. If it were produced by an 'audiophile' company, it would be WAY more expensive!
Use and enjoy it with confidence :cool:
How's the Exposure/Royd combo doing, now you've gotten more used to it?
Marco.
How's the Exposure/Royd combo doing, now you've gotten more used to it?
Marco.
Sadly not had a huge amount of time to listen to it yet Marco - grabbed the odd 30 mins now and then. However this week our little'uns are at my folks for the week so have some serious 'me time' to enjoy.
There's certainly a frisson, and a sense of 2 components working in harmony, where the Expo/Royds are concerned though. Of that there is no doubt.
I'm not entirely sure the electrical qualities of the V-D are ideal for the Exposure amp (remembering that JF's amps need low-cap stuff) but with the Sony it's just bloody brilliant, as it is with the Puresound A30. Less than 50 quid for a pair, very nicely terminated by Mr Grant? Crazy-good. :)
Been very happy with the MG i/c's too.
istari_knight
16-02-2014, 13:26
Your not wrong, ES & Van Damme do work well together. A chap called CJRoss put me onto the pairing back in 2005 on the whathifi forum... He got a lot of flack from the usual suspects but he [and I] are still using it today whilst the naysayers have probably changed speaker cables more often than their underwear.
southall-1998
16-02-2014, 21:48
Snells tomorrow. :cool:
Which ones?
S.
Which ones?
S.
K's - Mk1 :)
southall-1998
16-02-2014, 21:56
K's - Mk1 :)
Very nice, Gromit.
Looking forward to the next write up.
S.
I've always thought K20 & Naca4 are one & the same... Is that correct ? Tried some K400 but it wasn't anything to get excited about.
As Richard says, Cable talk 3 :thumbsup:
Yes, K20 and NacA4 are the same thing other than the colour of the insulation. NacA5 is quite different though - same dimensions but fewer and thicker strands in a much stiffer insulation.
Personally I have used K400 for many years and it has served me very well - certainly it has not impeded any of the many modifications I have made.
istari_knight
16-02-2014, 22:58
As I thought. Also had Naca5 but with a full Naim setup so hard to evaluate how good it was...
I'm sure K400 is great in the right system but personally I wouldn't want to spend any more than £5/pm for speaker cable these days no matter what logo's on it.
Well the results are in - the Snells will be up for sale as they just do not like my room at all. A shame as they're in lovely condition but I'll place an ad for them v soon with photos.
Bit of a pants photo I'm afraid but it gives the idea...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5480/12593971133_46b1e9784c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12593971133/)
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/12594304764_0111d71995_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12594304764/)
I was all ready to put these up for sale as they sounded really quite wrong, but had a quick re-jig and they sound really rather good now. As good as the Edens? No, not by quite a margin, but they've certainly had a 2nd chance put it that way.
SL24's work well with these too. :D
chris@panteg
17-02-2014, 18:30
Snell's usually sound best with high mass stands like the pirates and huygens.
Snell's usually sound best with high mass stands like the pirates and huygens.
This is what a lot of people say but Peter Empson at Deco really rates the Something Solids - totally against the grain I admit, but I could never get my old AN AX-2's sounding good (which Audio Note state should be used on high mass stands) but on trying the SL24's I was really taken aback at the result, tidied them up no end. Could do with some shorter stands for the K's though as from our sofa the bass unit is at ear level which isn't ideal - and looks a bit daft too.
chris@panteg
17-02-2014, 19:29
This is what a lot of people say but Peter Empson at Deco really rates the Something Solids - totally against the grain I admit, but I could never get my old AN AX-2's sounding good (which Audio Note state should be used on high mass stands) but on trying the SL24's I was really taken aback at the result, tidied them up no end. Could do with some shorter stands for the K's though as from our sofa the bass unit is at ear level which isn't ideal - and looks a bit daft too.
I
Interesting, where is Peter based now? I remember him at noteworthy audio Aylesbury.
I
Interesting, where is Peter based now? I remember him at noteworthy audio Aylesbury.
Still in the same shop Chris - just a re-name of the business.
chris@panteg
17-02-2014, 20:18
Still in the same shop Chris - just a re-name of the business.
Oh cool, he's a nice chap.
Oh cool, he's a nice chap.
Absolutely, one of the good guys without a doubt. :)
Spot the new bit of kit...
https://s2.yimg.com/sm/5547/12660946214_944c2a4365_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12660946214/)
B'Jesus l cannot keep up:scratch:
SONY T/T and amplifier and new speakers?????
istari_knight
20-02-2014, 20:28
Let me try & sum up...
Sold the Snells, swapped the Edens out for the good old Q acoustics, swapped the Expo out for the good old Sony & the Pioneer PL-71 has got some competition on its hands in the guise of a Sony TT-?
:)
RobbieGong
20-02-2014, 20:36
Spot the new bit of kit...
https://s2.yimg.com/sm/5547/12660946214_944c2a4365_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12660946214/)
Nice one Richard - Bet it sounds lovely - How would you describe the sound ? I'm curious as I'm hoping to snaffle (best word ever, first heard it here lol) a big Sony one day and hopefully some Spendor floorstanders to drive with it :)
Btw - Love the deck too. Always dreamed of grabbing a tidy 8750 as an optional deck alongside my Techie. Good ones v rare now though as you probably know.
Let me try & sum up...
Sold the Snells, swapped the Edens out for the good old Q acoustics, swapped the Expo out for the good old Sony & the Pioneer PL-71 has got some competition on its hands in the guise of a Sony TT-?
:)
Thought Richard had sold the SONY amplifier and SONY T/T :lol:
Let me try & sum up...
Sold the Snells, swapped the Edens out for the good old Q acoustics, swapped the Expo out for the good old Sony & the Pioneer PL-71 has got some competition on its hands in the guise of a Sony TT-?
:)
You're not too far off the mark James. :)
I was all due to move the 770ES to Oldius on the 'Wam but just couldn't bring myself to do it (Geoff's been a total gent about it I should add). The Exposure XV's staying for now because in the right conditions it's a joy (and the phonostage contained within is pretty much the best one in the house).
Yes, the Snells are on their way although they do sound excellent on the 770 on a lot of material. Really glad to have had a play with them though, and these are a particularly nice example.
Royds are staying - there simply is no cure once you've had a pair of small Royds in your life. Driven by the XV it's hard to sit still. :)
Picked up the PS-6750 earlier this week - it needs a couple of things doing to it but it's in lovely condition and sounds fabulous. The previous one I had was clearly no fluke. Expect the PL-71 to be up for sale v soon.
The wee Q's are part of the furniture and despite my best efforts the little b*ggers will not break. :D
And breathe... :)
Robert - yes, an 8750 would be wonderful. Just try finding one though. :(
I previously had a 6750 which was 'pointed out' by someone on a 'buy this - you'll love it' recommendation. At Scalford 2 years ago we put it up against my modded SL1210, the result of the comparison being totally unexpected with dropped jaws all round the room. This was despite the Sony not even being optimally set-up with the cartridge (just balanced out and vtf added). I adore the PL71 - that much should be obvious as I've owned a few of them and loved every one - but the 6750 with a Rega Carbon fitted sounds better than the PL71 with the Benz.
Best way I can try to describe the Sony's presentation is it's quite 'Gyro-like' with this huge, enveloping presentation with a sound that makes the speakers melt away (the Royds love it!) but with the added drive and grip that a really good DD can give.
It will be at Scalford - pop in and have a listen. :)
A better photo...
https://ycpi-farm4.staticflickr.com/3737/12663696955_6d34a83e81_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12663696955/)
Can I now change your user title to 'Sony Fanboi'? It's surely deserved! :D
Seriously though, Richard - that's a lovely thing, and I have no doubt that it sounds fab. It must do, to have ousted the PL-71. Look forward to hearing it at Scalford :)
Marco.
Can I now change your user title to 'Sony Fanboi'? It's now surely deserved! :D
Seriously though, Richard - that's a lovely thing, and I have no doubt that it sounds fab. It must do, to have ousted the PL-71. Look forward to hearing it at Scalford :)
Marco.
'Sony Fanboi' yup, sounds about right. :D
(saying that there are a few of us methinks - like the Fuji X-cameras, the word's getting round) ;)
To think we'd have avoided this kit like the plague not so many years ago...
RobbieGong
20-02-2014, 23:13
Thanks for the insight Richard. The deck looks a beaut as does the rest. Wear the Sony Fanboi tag with pride. The secrets long been out anyway just how good some of the Sony kit is. The quality of build and electronics inside speaks of only serious audio intent. I've seen pics from other forums and like you, some of those guys have bagged themselves some seriously gorgeous high end ES gear - We'll exchange notes at some point in the not too distant future, all going to plan ;) Not sure if I'll get to Salford as committed up but will do one day as I'd love to meet some of you guys. :)
istari_knight
20-02-2014, 23:16
That 6750 looks lovely :drool:
The PL-71 improves tremendously with a better PSU and change of feet. But I'm open to other decks as well and Im currently playing my vinyl on a KD-550....which also improves tremendously with a better PSU....and feet! :eyebrows:
Blimey - you got busy after leaving mine :)
So to recap: the constants are the Sony CDP and the Teac DAC. Two amps and two sets of speakers (and one/two t/ts) doesn't sound excessive - unless you've got something else planned? Do you still hanker after a Decca?
Blimey - you got busy after leaving mine :)
So to recap: the constants are the Sony CDP and the Teac DAC. Two amps and two sets of speakers (and one/two t/ts) doesn't sound excessive - unless you've got something else planned? Do you still hanker after a Decca?
Was good to see you yesterday. :)
Yes, constants in the hardware are as you say, although the PL71 is now up for sale. Would really like another Decca but don't feel it would marry particularly well with the Sony arm (which is a lot lighter than the Pioneer's). The Benz works very nicely in it though, although I am thinking that perhaps a really good MM would work better. Something along the lines of a 2M Black.
To think we'd have avoided this kit like the plague not so many years ago...
That's it exactly, Richard. The Linn/Naim flat-earthers would have scoffed at such a system. I know which I would prefer. Well done!
RobbieGong
21-02-2014, 11:21
Was good to see you yesterday. :)
Yes, constants in the hardware are as you say, although the PL71 is now up for sale. Would really like another Decca but don't feel it would marry particularly well with the Sony arm (which is a lot lighter than the Pioneer's). The Benz works very nicely in it though, although I am thinking that perhaps a really good MM would work better. Something along the lines of a 2M Black.
Go for it Richard ! The 2M Black in my experience is a game changer and a stonkingly good cart, mine never ceases to amaze me. It is most definately fussy about set up and vta hence I went for an arm with on the fly vta adjust. Once it hits that sweet spot and you hear it, it's massive smiles all day long. Does your 6750 have easy vta adjust ? :)
The whole thing about the best dd's from the 70's was the acoustic feedback issue. Some howled with little provocation, where the heavier ones could add a form of bass 'heaviness' to the sonics if incorrectly sited.
I see now why you want to sell the PL71. Not sure the Sony arm would like low compliance heavyweights though.
By the way, the 8750 complete with fluid-filled mat really is reference class IMO. We had one at KJ and couldn't sell it due to the LP12 :( I doubt many were ever sold in the UK, but maybe in Germany and the US things are different?
Not sure the Sony arm would like low compliance heavyweights though.
By the way, the 8750 complete with fluid-filled mat really is reference class IMO. We had one at KJ and couldn't sell it due to the LP12 :( I doubt many were ever sold in the UK, but maybe in Germany and the US things are different?
Yes, the Sony's arm is a very different beast to the one on the PL71 and my previous 6750 had a 2M Black nestled in it so would be keen to try one again. A fabulous cartridge and one which really did hammer home 'why go to the faff of an MC?' (if it is a faff of course). :)
Like the Pioneer, the Sony does respond to being sited well - in many ways (just in my limited experience) the same rules apply as to stuff like the LP12. A light, very stiff table on a solid floor works a treat. The PL71 sounds leaden and 'thumpy' on heavy furniture but plonk it on an Audiotech and it's like someone's taken the brakes off. Another thing to watch out for on the Pioneer I've found is the feet - it's very easy to have the sprung foot 'bind' in its housing, causing stiction and wrecking the sound. They need a bit of careful adjustment when the deck's in place, ie a small push with a screwdriver on the side of each one to centralise it in the rigid part of the foot. Once done, and the deck can bounce freely, all is well.
A bit of pron...
https://s3.yimg.com/so/7323/12679244983_bf7ec4f023_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12679244983/)
https://s1.yimg.com/sj/2871/12679106505_608e281694_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12679106505/)
Superb stuff, Richard - I really love the look of that Sony! :respect:
Aesthetically, it ticks all the right boxes for me, particularly the chunky platter. That's one thing I miss with most direct-drive T/Ts, which all seem to have 'thin'/low-slung platters, compared with the chunky beasts seen on some belt-drive T/Ts!!
Do you reckon there'd be any mileage in replacing the stock feet for some of the Sorbothane variety, or Isonoes? The stock ones look similar to the ones used on the Techy (unless in the flesh you can confirm otherwise), and we know how much those ruin the sound...
Marco.
Hi Marco - the Sony's feet are just held in with M6 threads into the main body of the plinth. They're gel-filled (or a version of it) I believe but I've not inspected them that closely. You're right though, no harm in having a play with some other types. The mat's also oil/silicon-filled - if you hold it tightly between finger and thumb, you can move the 2 layers against eachother. Putting the PL71's mat on (a true dark horse if there ever was one) actually makes the deck sound slightly worse so Sony really knew what they were doing with this. On a Tecchy the PL71 mat works really well. :)
B'Jesus, a gel filled feet and platter mat, that is intriguing Richard- enjoy!:)
Apologies - shocking grammer that should read " gel filled platter mat and feet".:doh:
Hi Marco - the Sony's feet are just held in with M6 threads into the main body of the plinth. They're gel-filled (or a version of it) I believe but I've not inspected them that closely. You're right though, no harm in having a play with some other types. The mat's also oil/silicon-filled - if you hold it tightly between finger and thumb, you can move the 2 layers against eachother. Putting the PL71's mat on (a true dark horse if there ever was one) actually makes the deck sound slightly worse so Sony really knew what they were doing with this. On a Tecchy the PL71 mat works really well...
Interesting (and noted)... Based on what you've said, together with the fact that you've got a rack with glass shelves, I suspect that a set of Isonoes would work rather well. Aesthetically, I'd go for the black ones.
One to try, perhaps? If they don't work, you'd have no problem selling them on :)
Marco.
Excellent system Richard and great pictures...just finished reading this thread and enjoyed it immensely .:) I had some problems with glass shelves myself when I had the mf1000, and used sorbothane feet which changed the sound completely for the better.
Sorry I've been a bit of a pillock here - you guys saying 'glass shelves?' etc and I use the turntable on an Audiotech table in the main room. :scratch:
Then I realised of course that the photos were taken on the spare (redundant) Equinox shelf in our music room but yes, I'm of the opinion that glass shelves aren't in many cases a turntable's friend.
Ah yes, I just presumed that the T/T was used on the shelves it was pictured with... In that case, try some Sorbothane feet. I'm sure that there are benefits to be had by doing that :)
Marco.
jandl100
21-02-2014, 23:54
https://s1.yimg.com/sj/2871/12679106505_608e281694_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12679106505/)
:hmm: it all looks a bit monochrome.
Perhaps a new headshell would help?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzQyWDE2MDA=/z/OKAAAMXQS6pRuseZ/$(KGrHqRHJFMFG)U+fh!WBRuseVpykg~~60_35.JPG?set_id= 8800005007
Only kidding! :) - that looks a fab bit of kit. :thumbsup: Looking forward to its Scalford debut.
The good thing about Isonoes is that they apparently lighten the sound by getting rid of the heavy/slow/leaden bass boom caused by excessive mechanical feedback. I say apparently, because the outcome is far better definition in the bass.
Sorry to butt in, but did you go to the Bristol show yesterday, Martin, as planned? :)
Marco.
I couldn't as our server upgrades were a pain and we had to get the Smoothwall people in to diagnose a problem that they had created. All in all a stressful day and all ideas of getting to Bristol went out the window :(
Another pair of little Royds arriving tomorrow. :gig:
Can't wait!! :)
New lens, so new pics...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2814/12748710515_33b4964f10_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12748710515/)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7304/12748707815_24bcc09d88_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12748707815/)
brian2957
24-02-2014, 18:04
Spill the beans Richard :lol: You seem to be holding on to those 2010is . Are they really that good ?
The Q's, now with matching stands :thumbsup:
Spill the beans Richard :lol: You seem to be holding on to those 2010is . Are they really that good ?
They're just great fun Brian - and if I break them, they're cheap enough to go buy another pair. :D
Seriously though, for the money they're just storming value, and shows there are clearly some very clever brains at Q-A to get such a sound from a truly tiny box. A bit sluggish when new, and they love a bit of power up their chuffs, but soon loosen up over time. They do pull the neat trick though of sounding sweet with pretty much anything (the Mission 70 Mk2's from 30 years ago were the same) but on the end of plenty of amplifier they really can sing.
Hi Seppi - yes, went for the Q stands in the end. Not the greatest-made things in the world but sonically they work well as you'd expect. Work a treat with Royds too, which is a nice surprise.
brian2957
24-02-2014, 18:56
Cheers Richard , I've been thinking about buying a pair although I don't know if my Bantam Gold at 25 wpc will drive them properly . I suppose there's only one way to find out eh! I've been flitting between my Royd A7s and my Rega EL8s recently and really enjoying them both , so we'll see.
Cheers Richard , I've been thinking about buying a pair although I don't know if my Bantam Gold at 25 wpc will drive them properly . I suppose there's only one way to find out eh! I've been flitting between my Royd A7s and my Rega EL8s recently and really enjoying them both , so we'll see.
x2 l have been thinking of mating a pair with my 40wpc Virtue Audio Sensation......... l am sure l am turning into Gromit.:lol:
brian2957
24-02-2014, 20:21
Nah , think they broke the mould there Andy . Pretty sure there's only one Richard:lol:
Nah , think they broke the mould there Andy . Pretty sure there's only one :lol:
True Brian, but he does seem to have a good ear for kit.:)
brian2957
24-02-2014, 20:46
Can't disagree with that mate . Richards threads / adventures with hifi always make an interesting read.
I've yet to hear a bad QA speaker, in fact the entire range sounds fantastic, especially their floorstanders. I agree with one of the comments above, there are indeed some very clever minds within the company and they have a knack for producing top flight speakers for not a lot...
brian2957
24-02-2014, 21:04
Cheers Dave , I'll have to make the effort to hear some of them . Maybe pay a visit to John Lewis in Glasgow tomorrow.
There are indeed some very clever minds within the company and they have a knack for producing top flight speakers for not a lot...
Rumour (very much un-comfirmed) has it Dave that Q-A's design team is made up of a few of the guys who worked for Mission in the late 80's when they were producing some seriously competitive kit. The aforementioned 70 Mk2 was one of them, in fact I have fond memories of my pair as they were the first bit of hifi I bought with my first full-time job pay packet. Wonderful little things the 70's - the Mk1's weren't up to much but the Mk2's were a joy.
Rumour (very much un-comfirmed) has it Dave that Q-A's design team is made up of a few of the guys who worked for Mission in the late 80's when they were producing some seriously competitive kit. The aforementioned 70 Mk2 was one of them, in fact I have fond memories of my pair as they were the first bit of hifi I bought with my first full-time job pay packet. Wonderful little things the 70's - the Mk1's weren't up to much but the Mk2's were a joy.
That does not surprise me in the slightest Richard. The first time I clapped eyes on a pair of 2050i's they shouted Mission at me, and there was much more to it than the D'appolito driver arrangement and a lot to do with their character. QA need to be applauded for the build quality and finish of their products too, it is simply outstanding at any price let alone in the budget sector ;)
More wonderful Roydness has arrived in the shape of a pair of immaculate Sapphire 1's...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/12767804875_727e946e35_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12767804875/)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7399/12767941323_9a98da99d4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12767941323/)
I was gobsmacked someone didn't snap these up before me. However, their loss. :ner:
istari_knight
25-02-2014, 11:08
The one's off eBay ? If so, I umm'd & ahh'd for 10 minutes before deciding not to buy :D
The one's off eBay ? If so, I umm'd & ahh'd for 10 minutes before deciding not to buy :D
The very ones James - can't believe I got them for 130 quid delivered, there's hardly a mark on them and the grilles are well stuck on making me think they've possibly never been removed. Old Joe did always recommend running his speakers with grilles in place anyway, and my own experience agrees totally.
Just noticed the lower of the above photos is utterly poo - will re-do one that's in focus. :D
istari_knight
25-02-2014, 11:22
I posted them on the PFM eBay thread in the hope they'd find a good home... Glad you got them :thumbsup:
Audioman
25-02-2014, 11:30
I've yet to hear a bad QA speaker, in fact the entire range sounds fantastic, especially their floorstanders. I agree with one of the comments above, there are indeed some very clever minds within the company and they have a knack for producing top flight speakers for not a lot...
The QA speakers sound amazingly good at any price. Could this be because they are a pro audio company rather than primarily involved in the overpriced domestic hi-fi market?
The very ones James - can't believe I got them for 130 quid delivered, there's hardly a mark on them and the grilles are well stuck on making me think they've possibly never been removed. Old Joe did always recommend running his speakers with grilles in place anyway, and my own experience agrees totally.
Nice one - so how do they compare, musically, with the QAs? :)
You'll notice that I said 'musically', as opposed to sonically... ;) I'd expect both speakers to perform rather differently in that respect.
Marco.
Nice one - so how do they compare, musically, with the QAs? :)
You'll notice that I said 'musically', as opposed to sonically... ;) I'd expect both speakers to perform rather differently in that respect.
Marco.
I'm off to work in 15 mins Marco but I will get back to you on that one as it's quite interesting in many ways. :)
No worries, dude. I look forward to it! Given the 'heritage' of both designs, I'd expect them to be voiced rather differently.
Marco.
southall-1998
25-02-2014, 13:41
I'm tempted to give the Q-2010i speakers a try once I've settled down in our next home.
S.
Nice one - so how do they compare, musically, with the QAs? :)
Ok - I spent a few hours today doing some lengthy comparisons. I should add that I'm not into 'play one track/swap kit/play same track again' as it just shows up tonal differences which are mis-leading and just cloud the situation anyway. I always spend a good 20 mins listening to one, then swap over, having had a good 10 min break between each item.
The Royds do their usual thing - yes they're coloured tonally (but nowhere near as much as some) but musically they have so little inertia they have the habit of making other speakers sound as though they're wading through syrup. Inferior (musically speaking) speakers seem to be trying too hard - with the Royds nothing feels like it's an effort. On first listening, Royds can come across as a bit too much - most of them aren't for the faint-hearted, I'd never deny that - but on returning to a 'normal' speaker (once the ear has tuned-in to the Royds' presentation) there's always a feeling that something's missing. I've used the analogy before, but Royds play music with the brakes off, and it's addictive.
Compared to the QA's? This is where it's quite interesting. The 2010's cry out for plenty of amplifier - one which can drive them hard. I often get the feeling (although I'm probably wrong!) that during the design/listening trials these little speakers were 'voiced' loud. Reason being is that they come to life in a way which I've never known any other speaker to, once given plenty of volume. At low level, they sound slightly slow, shut-in and dynamically dim-witted. Crank things up and it's as though a switch has been thrown, and ye gods they can take some punishment and not saturate.
Vs the Royds? It's hard to say but the Sapphires I'm using at the moment have a clarity which the QA's miss out on, and they're a much faster, and more nimble speaker. Bass is prodigious on the Sapphire, and whilst Joe was very clever in his use of a port there's a slight smear in bass timing compared to the Eden which uses a much smaller port (and a heavily damped cabinet). The QA's bass is more evenly rendered, less powerful, but in transients it hits harder - although that's probably as a consenquence of me driving them a lot harder than the Royds which are way too precious to abuse.
The Royd trick though is setting up rhythmic patterns. Track 1 on Chick Corea's 'Akoustic Band' album can take a long while to settle into its groove because the first 16 is so abstract rhythmically. The QA's wander around in the dark somewhat here, but the Royds find the pattern from the outset, and the track snaps into focus immediately - as it should. They display this aspect of their performance over every genre of music. If there's a pattern to be found, they're right in there and music which previously came across as puzzling, will then draw a 'well that all makes sense now' reaction from the listener.
What continues to make me smile where the QA's are concerned is how they've managed to produce such a tiny loudspeaker which sounds so huge. For that, I love them - and once used in the right conditions, and set up very carefully in-room, they're a riot.
More wonderful Roydness has arrived in the shape of a pair of immaculate Sapphire 1's...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/12767804875_727e946e35_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12767804875/)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7399/12767941323_9a98da99d4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/12767941323/)
I was gobsmacked someone didn't snap these up before me. However, their loss. :ner:
Love the Sapphire 1 they are flawed but nothing I've heard has the speed and snap of these speakers. :)
Also as you say Richard there is a certain open window with these speakers.
Love the Sapphire 1 they are flawed but nothing I've heard has the speed and snap of these speakers. :)
Also as you say Richard there is a certain open window with these speakers.
All true - I'd never admit that Royds aren't coloured in one way or another (but then, name me a speaker that isn't) but I find their own set of compromises are so easy to forgive that I cannot help but love the things. The Sapphires' presentation is actually quite similar to my old Merlins. The Edens are possibly more detailed, but sound smaller unless they're pushed as close as possible to the back wall where they're happiest. The Sapphires need at least 12" of space behind them in my room.
Two areas, and areas I hold as very important to me, are vocal sibilance and leading edge. All Royds I've heard get this spot on! So natural and projected. In some ways they're uncoloured too.
Two areas, and areas I hold as very important to me, are vocal sibilance and leading edge. All Royds I've heard get this spot on! So natural and projected. In some ways they're uncoloured too.
I agree Neil - sure they can make some instruments 'howl' slightly, notably Alto Saxophone can get a bit too keen I feel, its upper register shouting slightly unnaturally. However - and this is where they get stuff right which speakers 10 tmes their price just fall flat on their *rses - is the basic building blocks of rhythm, pitch, and the relationship between musical dynamics and time.
This photo will be replaced with a 'live' one in a couple of days' time. ;)
http://img.hifitest.de/_bild_1341225809.jpg
How are you finding the Edens vs. the Sapphires Richard?
And definitely most interested to hear your thoughts on the Rega setup!
How are you finding the Edens vs. the Sapphires Richard?
Hi Neil - it's a very interesting comparison actually. The Sapphires are a fair bit brighter with more bass, and need breathing space. The Edens need to be pushed as close to the wall as possible and sound smaller, less brash. More detailed though. Both are just huuuuuge fun though, in true Royd tradition.
istari_knight
17-03-2014, 18:11
I suppose we'll just have to wait & see which one's eventually make it onto your signature :eyebrows:
I suppose we'll just have to wait & see which one's eventually make it onto your signature :eyebrows:
Oh yesh. :)
Expect a system clear-out in the next few weeks, one way or t'other. :D
Spot the new addition. ;)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3823/13275783304_22472b100b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/13275783304/)
macvisual
19-03-2014, 22:47
Ah has the Rega landed then...? Sound any good Richard ??
is it the Q Acoustics speakers per chance????
is it the Q Acoustics speakers per chance????
Hi Grant - it's the little Brio-R. :)
Been after trying one of these for ages 1. Because I've always liked Rega stuff. 2. Because my Dad's owned a clamshell Brio from nearly-new. 3. Because folk have been going on (and on) about the Brio-R and wanted to taste it for myself but was reluctant to shell out the readies for a new one.
How does it sound? I've been at work all day until about 9 this evening and left the Sony switched on since this morning's brief music listening session. That way it would be performing at its best when I got home. Put some GRP All-Stars Big Band on (CD) and sat down for 15 mins when I got home. Sounds as great as ever.
Un-boxed the Brio-R, plugged it in, let it settle for 10 mins and you know what? The similarity to the big Sony is almost uncanny. It's quite smooth, has little dampening of musical flow and plays with a big heart. Not short on driving power too, the 2010i's do thrive on an amp which can grab hold of them - the Sony does score here, no surprise considering it has twice the power of the Rega.
I've also got an Apollo-R sat in the box but will plug that in tomorrow. :)
ah, the grp :lol: Randy Brecker played with them if memory serves.....good stuff........not been into rega stuff much for no particular reason, but like those Q speakers....
I picked up a BT 1000 conditioner today...bloody huge and must have damaged the earth with the amount of metal in it.....
Spot the new addition...
When's the Rega transport and DAC arriving, daftee? :)
Marco.
jandl100
20-03-2014, 06:29
Ah, Rega amps - yup, I've fancied trying one of those as well. :) I'm about to scratch a Sony itch, though. ;)
Amplifier bake-off is in full swing. :)
istari_knight
20-03-2014, 12:57
Amplifier bake-off is in full swing. :)
:popcorn:
Just got the Rega DAC to match mine :eyebrows:
Well, I can confirm the Brio-R is a darn good little amp. Quite a star in fact. It drives the 2010's well, doesn't get flustered when asked to give its all on dynamic peaks. As I said earlier, its tonal quality is very similar to the 770ES which came as something of a surprise - or perhaps it shouldn't? We don't (or I don't) want an amp to have a 'sound' particularly - just let what the front end is doing pass unhindered to the speakers, but keeping control of what's going on in the process.
Is it better than the Exposure XV or the Sony? No it isn't, that I can say with reasonable confidence. It doesn't have the muscular 'big lungs' delivery of the Exposure, nor its wonderful portrayal of temporal shifts and inner (musical) dynamics which let a phrase build and fade. Listen to a phrase with subtle rubato (shifting timing) and the Brio has a go, but tends to wander around slightly. It does sound extremely nice in the process though, and is so listenable it seems almost cruel to criticise.
The Apollo-R I'm less convinced by - through its analogue outputs it's just a bit too much for me, sounding bright and chromium-plated. Through the Teac dac things improve, but I might as well just use my 303ES as the transport. Keeping the Apollo would be done on purely cosmetic/space-saving grounds.
Of course the observations regarding the Brio are first impressions, and I've been flitting about with such a wide range of music this morning it's quite tricky to keep tabs on what-does-what. All 3 amps have preferences for their speaker cable - the Exposure just loves Talk 3, there being a definite synergy going on there, the other 2 prefer Van Damme Blue. The Exposure sounds way too bright through the V-D, but am thinking that the amp's not 100% happy connected to it anyway. Will keep the Brio fired up and in the system for a week or so now, getting used to what it does and re-acquaint myself with the other amps after then to see if anything's changed with how I'm hearing things.
Just got the Rega DAC to match mine :eyebrows:
Nice one. :)
Would be interested to hear what it does with the Apollo-R as I'm not 100% convinced by it on its own. My Teac dac brings about a subtle, but worthwhile improvement, that I can say.
brian2957
20-03-2014, 14:34
The Rega DAC tends to be a bit 'pipe and slippers ' for some so it may tame the brightness of the CD player. Also some people prefer the coax input and some the USB input . I recently went back to using the Rega DAC with my server via the USB input and I'm absolutely loving it. I'm looking forward to your final appraisal of these amps Richard since I was thinking about going back to the Brio R , but would have liked to have tried a big Sony ES amp also. Bringing the Exposure into the equation confuses things slightly :scratch: . Problem is all 3 rarely come up for sale so I would like to be reasonably sure before pulling the trigger on any of these amps.
My main concern about the Sony ES amps is one of reliability . These are now old amps and can be problematic . In the past I bought a Sony 530ES amp and had a problem with losing sound on one channel ( faulty relays I think ) . Although I really liked the amp switching things off and on repeatedly wasn't an option . I'm not sure about the Exposure amps but the Rega can be bought new , or fairly new , so if it's near the other 2 in terms of SQ I would tend to go for one of those.
Nice one. :)
Would be interested to hear what it does with the Apollo-R as I'm not 100% convinced by it on its own. My Teac dac brings about a subtle, but worthwhile improvement, that I can say.
Whilst i would love an Apollo-R just for aesthetic reasons, I only have the Sonos connect and Apple TV so unable to compare.
With the Rega DAC low level listening with the 2010i's is much easier on the ear (clearer) for me. The Sonos is good without the DAC but even better with, instruments just sound that more realistic. Bass deeper but a bit flabby mainly due to the speakers being so close to the rear wall, pulled out when the kids and wife are out its fine.
My only very minor gripe about the Brio-R is the lack of headphone socket, but i know a man who would love to sell me the Rega EAR.
Had a listen to a rega brio b4 i bought the arcam and thought the fmj was better.
Ah, Rega amps - yup, I've fancied trying one of those as well. :) I'm about to scratch a Sony itch, though. ;)
:popcorn:
istari_knight
20-03-2014, 22:13
It sounds as though they've sorted out the voicing of their amps... I've owned both clamshell Mira & Elicit and would rank them both equally as the most coloured amps I've ever owned.
Really, really bad :(
It sounds as though they've sorted out the voicing of their amps... I've owned both clamshell Mira & Elicit and would rank them both equally as the most coloured amps I've ever owned.
Really, really bad :(
Never heard those - my Dad owns an old clamshell Brio which is a nice little amp. Would be very interesting to drag it up here and hear how it sounds against its newer brother. The 'R' is extremely listenable and, like the cheapy Rega Carbon, what it does wrong is of no great consequence given the price Rega are charging for a new one.
Both the 770ES and Exposure XV are better amps though - that much I am sure of. That's not to say the Brio-R is poor, most definitely not as the others would be significantly more expensive if available new (possibly 2-3 times the Rega's price).
istari_knight
21-03-2014, 11:56
Like Naim it seems they have diluted their "house sound" and are all the better for it !
An old vs new Brio test would be interesting... Its a shame someone local cant bring 'round a little NVA so that old chestnut can be finally put to bed.
Yeah Rega are a bit guilty of putting their idea of good sound into things rather than trying to achieve transparency. Rega Planet MK1 is a good example of this.
Now this is extremely interesting. I'm not that much of a cable-believer (certainly couldn't stomach spending a fortune on them put it that way) but still appreciate there's a balance to be struck within any system. In this case it's clear something wasn't quite right with the Apollo-R/<insert amp here> combination. Purely 1. By a chap on PFM suggesting it and 2. Me then thinking 'of course - I've got some of this in the drawer' inserting some Klotz cable (the stuff Rega use) has brought about a noticable, and very worthwhile improvement in sonics. There's no extra detail/more convincing musicality but it's now a lot better balanced. The spit from the top end has lessened - at points it was unlistenable before - and now it's a much more convincing set-up.
brian2957
21-03-2014, 21:45
Are we talking about interconnects here Richard . Changing the mains cable to Regas own used in its high end gear can also be beneficial .
Are we talking about interconnects here Richard . Changing the mains cable to Regas own used in its high end gear can also be beneficial .
Ah! Sorry just re-read my post and it did appear a bit vague but yes, the Klotz (http://www.studiospares.com/cable-guitar-/klotz-ac110-guitar-cable-metre/invt/544590) is i/c cable. It's basically guitar amp cable, made into an interconnect and is the same stuff Rega use for the their Couple stuff. I just soldered up a few sets ages ago (still amazed it works knowing my soldering skills!) and it sounds fine.
brian2957
21-03-2014, 22:15
You have PM Richard .
I've had my Brio-R and DAC for almost 2 years now and haven't really heard anything which would make me want to part with it yet.
If someone had told me I'd end up with a one make system 2 years ago I'd have laughed in their face as I always thought this was a bit lacking in imagination so it still surprises me when I now look at the stack of Rega which now occupies the listening room. I know that some have ripped the piss out of my decision but I stopped caring as it just does what it does and I enjoy it almost every day!
It all started for me when I got RS3 speakers, the amp just seemed to sound best with them and then everytime I added another Rega bit it just kind of kept giving more musical enjoyment. The best sounding IC I found with it was the klotz stuff. Its definitely got a house sound though, there's no denying that but as it happens its one that suits me and its quite budget friendly too. I'd also say that the brio-r is actually 2 amps in one, turn that dial past 10oclock and it becomes a rather different beast, a bit Jekyl and Hyde but in a thoroughly enjoyable way I find.
Just wona pair of 2010's myself, so am hoping I like them....not the I version but a good price and in good nick with all their bits and packing.:eek:
Edit...the guy just sent me a message saying they only have 20 hrs on them from new...think I've scored.
It sounds as though they've sorted out the voicing of their amps... I've owned both clamshell Mira & Elicit and would rank them both equally as the most coloured amps I've ever owned.
Really, really bad :(
Sorry, got to ask - in comparison with what? The products that replaced these sounded thinner toned to me, or could that be more neutral? :scratch:
istari_knight
22-03-2014, 21:40
Sorry, got to ask - in comparison with what? The products that replaced these sounded thinner toned to me, or could that be more neutral? :scratch:
Do you really want me to list ever amplifier I've ever owned ? It would be a long list...
I recall finding the midrange especially "syrupy" - I can only liken it to what some early Luxmans do to the sound. It completely spoilt my enjoyment of the music so I sold them both on sharpish [about 2 years inbetween owning each one, thought I'd "give them another go" :rolleyes:]
Edit: this was in the context of a Sony ES cd player / Rega Ela system.
Must admit I'd love to grab the old man's clamshell Brio to listen to along side the R, shame it'd be such a hassle to get it up here. What I can say though is that using a 'Rega' interconnect (albeit a cloned one) has tidied things up quite significantly. Cynics may feel this is a wild statement - and I wouldn't blame them for thinking so - but please trust me, the difference is obvious and demonstrable. Sure it's still bright (I'm using Sapphire 1's at the end of the day) but the 'spit' and piercing overtones have been subdued. It's still a tad one-colour with high frequency material (crash/hi-hat is a bit samey) c/w with the Sony ES CD player/Teac dac/Exposure (or 770ES) but it's a darn sight better than before.
Bottom line though is that it's a really enjoyable, listenable set-up. Hell, I'd even buy it new. :)
Just arrived...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7346/13444506825_d032a57563_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/mu3BtP)
In really nice condition - 110's been serviced very recently, will get them hooked up later and report back. :)
hoopsontoast
27-03-2014, 11:32
Just arrived...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7346/13444506825_d032a57563_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/mu3BtP)
In really nice condition - 110's been serviced very recently, will get them hooked up later and report back. :)
I cant keep up (says me) :lol:
Looking forward to hear how you get on with the Naim Vs the Exposure/Sony ES and the Brio-R.
brian2957
27-03-2014, 11:43
:eek: You going into competition as a box swapper Richard :lol:
istari_knight
27-03-2014, 13:16
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/nobodywithout_zpsb50a2b52.jpg
I dunno....you boys eh. :lol:
Yup, a little bit of Salisbury's finest gracing the rig again. Why? Dunno really, just to scratch an itch that never really goes away - we'll see how things go put it that way, my reasoning being nothing more than 'what the hell'. But in a nice way.
I've never truly loved Naim amps, and am most certainly not a died-in-the-wool fanboi as I am with JF's Exposures (or now Mr Sony's finest too). However, I've always liked them and in ways they have a musical presentation which, whilst not always a smooth ride, makes it such fun.
Just got this little pair hooked up 10 mins ago so have some music playing now. As I say, the 110 has hardly been fired up since it was serviced so am expecting it to be a little bit raw for a while.
Using Talk 3 speaker cable - am I likely to get hanged by the Naimboys? :scratch:
<yes yes I used to use NACA5 with my old Nait 2 - bloody hate the stuff>
In situ...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7043/13447040333_777a0e080e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/mugAAZ)
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7454/13447042443_7f94b3f960_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/mugBen)
istari_knight
27-03-2014, 17:17
Talk 3 is perfect Richard. Do you hate NACA5 for the sound or cumbersome inflexibility ? I remember heating mine up with a hairdryer to mold it around corners :D
Talk 3 is perfect Richard. Do you hate NACA5 for the sound or cumbersome inflexibility ? I remember heating mine up with a hairdryer to mold it around corners :D
Good question, James. In the dim and distant past when I had my CB Nait 2 I always felt NACA5 sounded both harsh and sat-on. Sure it helped accentuate leading edge and made the amps sound sprightly, but for my ears it's an uncouth sounding bit of wire but hey, it as its devotees. Of course it could lead to being ex-communicated by the Naimies, perhaps even shot at dawn.
Would be interesting to hear it hooked up now, especially as my hearing (at 48) isn't what it was at 23. :D
Talk 3 works brilliantly with Exposure so no reason to think it wouldn't work well with Naim too. :)
Playing aroung in mono...
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2870/13475323743_9ca5e2e496_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/mwLygZ)
I've never truly loved Naim amps, and am most certainly not a died-in-the-wool fanboi as I am with JF's Exposures (or now Mr Sony's finest too). However, I've always liked them and in ways they have a musical presentation which, whilst not always a smooth ride, makes it such fun.
Better than NVA? ;)
Marco.
Better than NVA? ;)
Oi you :spank:
jandl100
29-03-2014, 05:42
naughty naughty, Marco! :lol:
--- no spanking, Tim, you'll only encourage him. ;)
jandl100
29-03-2014, 05:46
I've only ever heard 3 Naim components in my system - a Nait 3 amp and a CD3 cdp, and about 15-20 (?) years ago a CDS2 cdp.
Luckily they were all on dem, not purchased! :eyebrows:
Oh, and that godawful NACA5 cable - I agree with you on that one, Richard.
None of them were my cuppa char by a long way.
The Barbarian
29-03-2014, 07:03
Only ever owned one Naim amp NAC32/SNAPS/NAP160.. Was long time er go tho.. the Pre & Power were early bolt up cases..
Oh, and that godawful NACA5 cable - I agree with you on that one, Richard.
None of them were my cuppa char by a long way.
Yes my first experience of NACA5 was definitely of the 'eh?' variety. I was using a Naim amp at the time so it should've worked perfectly, and it was the correct length. It did some things good - it accentuated leading edge and made the amp sound faster, but it just killed any sort of musical differentiation stone-dead for me. Later on, I had Exposure cable (similar to NACA4) and it worked significantly better and now Talk 3 works fine.
Avondale Black Link is no longer available it seems, but Witch Hat Audio (which is run by an ex-Naim guy) do their own cable which is apparently virtually the same electrical properties as NACA5 but much more user-friendly. May try and get hold of some of that.
The 42.5/110 is a much sweeter combination than any previous Naims I've owned, even making piano music sound totally listenable (and enjoyable) which is very important to me. With the 110 having had a full service recently I'm going to give it a couple of weeks until it's totally run-in then it'll be time to unleash the Exposure XV and 770ES again.
Naim A5 works a treat with older, fuller toned valve gear like my Quad II's, it really does. The ONLY thing I have against it is the price today, which is ridiculous.
Naim amps have evolved from the musical 'valvey' quality of a bolt-up 250, to a harder hitting 'PA style' quality of most CB models (135 and Nait 1 excepted), to a slightly 'looser' style in the Olive range, especially when new if not twenty years down the line. The current stuff that I've heard is much better in the midrange, but 'hard clipping' and subjective bandwidth limiting from mid bass to mid treble (in my experience compared to other amps) still dates the basic design, despite more modern construction of the boards - to me at any rate.
WHEN NEW, the 42/110 was a harsh snappy terrier of a combination. 'Sweetness' didn't come into it in ANY form Richard. Yours may have been serviced to within an inch of its life and thirty odd years of use may have tamed it, but please believe me. the 42/110 (the 'point five pre is largely irrelevant here) in the first years of life was horribly scrappy and harsh unless the harshness woke up tired old speakers! Adding a High Cap to the 42.5 would bring a tad more bass in, but that was all.
The Nait 3 and related 92/90 were limp wristed and rather tame in all honesty I remember. Sold because they were 'Naim' but not because of any real ability IME. Maybe a beefed up supply and sorting the pre section may improve things, but why bother when better can be had on the used market for less...
Dave - very interesting what you say about the 42/110 back-in-the-day. This one's taken me slightly by surprise as I'm listening to stuff which I wouldn't let my old 72/HC/180 anywhere near as that little pile just stamped all over it with hobnail boots. Sure, I wouldn't describe this 42.5/110 as soft or sweet in itself, but it is a darn sight more listenable than I first thought it would be, and that's through Sapphire 1's which aren't exactly shrinking violets. Maybe the Talk 3 speaker cable is helping things along? Who knows.
The Talk 3 had only one real problem - the garish blue coloured jacket. I use the fig-8 version of the Talk 4, the dirty-beige suiting our décor - cough...
I loved the 180, but fairly recent exchanges with current owners seem to indicate that when it goes off as ALL old Naim power amps will, it goes off big-time and gets really nasty. When new, a 180 would see off a six month old 250 left on 24/7 in terms of that 'musical something' that cannot really be put into words, but can probably be measured if truth be told, at least where Naim is concerned :)
I should have kept the bolt-up 250 I had, as it was delightful in the best ways. Modern preamps could have taken the sonics to a much higher level. Still, that was thirty years ago for me now (that long?) and much water has flowed and flooded under and over the bridge since...
istari_knight
29-03-2014, 12:59
I should have kept the bolt-up 250 I had, as it was delightful in the best ways. Modern preamps could have taken the sonics to a much higher level. Still, that was thirty years ago for me now (that long?) and much water has flowed and flooded under and over the bridge since...
I can sympathise Dave, I sold my bolt down 32/160 for a silly low price :doh:
Also had the bolt down NAC12... Now there's a surprising little preamp !
Have heard that there are some similarities between the bolt-down 250 and my LFD PA2M (SE) it's a Naim amp have always wanted to try.
In all fairness, if you haven't tried NVA LS6 speaker cable, you've missed an opportunity. It's an excellent performing cable and very good value for money.
The Talk 3 had only one real problem - the garish blue coloured jacket.
Aah - I've got the latest Talk 3 stuff made by Talk Electronics (Kevin Edwards' team) which for the money is fantastic, also have some V-D Blue but I'm not sure it's a happy electrical match for old Naim. Someone would hopefully be able confirm suitability? It doesn't work well with the Exposure, way too bright.
jandl100
29-03-2014, 19:09
Yep, the latest Talk 3 is British Racing Green in colour, and sounds quite different to my ears to previous Talk cables I have heard - a touch warm and smooth but very musically communicative, imo.
I have some of the new stuff in my ebay box waiting to be paid for....it will have to wait for a while but intend getting it unless something better second hand comes up.
Richard, did you ever have any quads, and if you did, what cable did you prefer?
cheers grant
Richard, did you ever have any quads, and if you did, what cable did you prefer?
cheers grant
Hi Grant - never owned any Quad myself, although a couple of my muso mates love the stuff. Nearly pulled the trigger on a fully Net Audio-modded 34/405 last year but chickened out at the last minute.
In a similar way to owning certain motorcycles over the years, it almost seems a 'right of passage' to own certain hifi brands. Perhaps Quad is in that list?
I have had a pair of quad 21l s for years a d love them but ha e felt recently the need to liven them up a tad. Thought some better wire may do the trick and am looking for ideas.
Have heard good things about the new talk stuff but may do better 2nd hand.
Thanks for taking the time to reply
Ah - if we're talking speakers I too have had a pair of 21L's. Really liked them but they needed a big amp to wake them up (I had an Exposure IVDR at the time).
You really cannot go wrong with the Talk 3, at £4/m it's a proper bargain.
brian2957
29-03-2014, 21:14
You heard the Cable Talk 3 at my place when you were over Grant . I've been using it for a while now and don't feel the need to replace it .
You heard the Cable Talk 3 at my place when you were over Grant . I've been using it for a while now and don't feel the need to replace it .
was that the old talk3 or the latest green stuff Brian....I cannot remember.....I gues that must have been where the original idea came from, as I likes the liveliness and tightness of response.
brian2957
29-03-2014, 21:22
It is the new green stuff Grant . I've been using it for quite a while now . After some thought ( and testing similarly priced cables ) I even hard-wired it into the external crossovers on my Rega EL8s .
Ah - if we're talking speakers I too have had a pair of 21L's. Really liked them but they needed a big amp to wake them up (I had an Exposure IVDR at the time).
You really cannot go wrong with the Talk 3, at £4/m it's a proper bargain.
Yes, when I was using the A1000 they ran with ease, but the Arcam needs a little help, although an excellent amp as well.
It is the new green stuff Grant . I've been using it for quite a while now . After some thought ( and testing similarly priced cables ) I even hard-wired it into the external crossovers on my Rega EL8s .
ah, then I was right.....think I'll get some when funds allow.....also got my eye on some nice bi wire terminal links to help there.... better sell that watch I have on sale on the bay.:lol:
The Talk 3 and Cable Talk 3/3.1 use similar conductors I think, but the dielectric of the new '3' is similar to the old CT4.1 I believe, hence the lack of hash compared to some others.
Just couldn't hold off any longer - had to take our youngest to the Doc this morning so plugged the XV in whilst we were out to let it warm through. Came back and sat down for a listen 45 mins ago...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7256/13533608053_4aab7a7818_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/mBVhaT)
The result has really surprised me to be honest - one thing for sure is that they are both great amplifiers. They do have a different presentation - that much is unsurprising - but for the first time since I got my first ever Exposure amp (a X in 1993) I've found a Naim which can compete on equal terms with the boys from Portslade.
The Naim suits the Royds better - it's more rolled-off top end (especially through the K boards) tames their somewhat over-enthusiastic tweeter. The Sapphires' top end is always clean, there's no sibilance at all for example, there's just quite a lot of it. :D
The Naim is faster, leaner, slightly more agile and drives with what you could describe as firmer musical suspension. It can get a bit harsh - that much is beyond doubt - where the Exposure goes louder with more grace. The XV is slightly more fleshed-out, with a more considered approach to music-making, less front-row perhaps but conversely hits harder in the bass. It also sounds more powerful. The Naim, fed by the PS-6750 and Benz ACE, is a lot more colourful than I remember my 72/Hi/180 sounding with the NAS/Space/Dorian, and seems to be a nice match.
Listening to Perlemuter/Ravel on Nimbus: This is a record I have a hugely sentimental attachment to - my old piano teacher studied under Perlemuter so am extremely fortunate to be in a position to have what one may call 'inside knowledge' of his delightful playing. She would often refer to 'this is how the old man would've played this etc etc'. The Naim does really well here - the secondary strikes in "le Gibet' ring with a beautiful sustain on both amps, and don't come across as dried-out, retaining their harmonics until that sustain is released. A piece of music which is so hypnotic, it draws the listener in to the point one can swim in the atmosphere it creates. The distant-mic'd Nimbus recording is awash with ambient detail too - rather 2-dimensional perhaps (it is a Naim after all!) but that matters little to me. It's the dark atmosphere (look up the music's description if you like) of the piece which needs to be conveyed and the Naim gets right to the heart of that.
Listening to Perlemuter/Ravel on Nimbus: This is a record I have a hugely sentimental attachment to - my old piano teacher studied under Perlemuter so am extremely fortunate to be in a position to have what one may call 'inside knowledge' of his delightful playing.
As I recall, Richard, that was among the very first Nimbus issues on CD. As you say, ambience a-plenty.
As I recall, Richard, that was among the very first Nimbus issues on CD. As you say, ambience a-plenty.
You could well be right, Martin - Nimbus released a 3-lp set which I've got, but record one (which has Gaspard on) is my favourite. Not the most technically polished performance ever put to master tape perhaps, but the music is a joy. VP also did a lovely 45rpm lp of Chopin Preludes on Nimbus which sounds fabulous. The extra revs really help the dynamic range. :)
They're breeding. :)
Literally just got home and my CB HiCap arrived...
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2911/13606080064_ae52b7a095_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/mJjHzj)
Not listened to what it brings yet, only just connected it up. Fortunately it survived its courier journey despite the poor packaging and appears to be in very nice condition. Service history is unknown (will phone Naim tomorrow or after the w/e) but it works fine.
brian2957
03-04-2014, 20:22
Could we be heading towards ' Making it louder bits : What day is it ? ' Richard :lol:
istari_knight
03-04-2014, 20:28
The absence of a chrome bumper DAC from the market is most lamentable :D
Could we be heading towards ' Making it louder bits : What day is it ? ' Richard :lol:
There you go, Brian - just for you. :)
Oh...and what James said too.
brian2957
03-04-2014, 21:08
Thanks mate. But actions speak louder than words :eyebrows: Just don't let the wife catch you :uhho:
Thanks mate. But actions speak louder than words :eyebrows: Just don't let the wife catch you :uhho:
It's ok Brian - she's away with work until mid-June, in fact she's been away since early Feb - about the time my humble rig started going a bit doo-lally. :D
<saying that, I well and truly take my hat off to single parents - I'm bloody knackered> :(
brian2957
03-04-2014, 21:18
Hah! So that's why all the boxes are coming and going . Enjoy it while you can mate ( probably until the first week in June is my estimate :) ) . Yup looking after a home single-handedly can't be easy, especially when the kids know they can wrap dad around their little finger :)
Well, the HiCap's been on-line now for a couple of days and its contribution to this little rig is beyond doubt - it's made a big difference. From offering more bass/transient speed to taking a lot of the 'etched' presentation away, it's doing a great job. Compared to the 72/Hi/180 I owned a few years ago, this set-up is just so different it's been a major surprise. Also just replaced the grey Naim Snaic4 (from HC to 110) with one from Flashback and there's been a jump in clarity too, and all for less than 30 quid.
Bottom line is I'm very much enjoying my little foray back in to Naimworld. :)
Enjoying it enough to ditch the Exposure and sell it to me? :-)
Enjoying it enough to ditch the Exposure and sell it to me? :-)
Very hard to say, James - since 'pulling' my ad for the XV I've had numerous requests from folk who want to buy it. Trouble is, it's taken quite some time to find a JF Exposure integrated in such nice condition and I'm seriously loath to part with it. It's a fabulous amplifier - through its phonostage it's a smidge better than the Naim rig - through the line inputs the Naim has the edge.
So what you're saying is you'd love to sell it to me? ;-)
So what you're saying is you'd love to sell it to me? ;-)
You could always try hypnosis James.... "You will sell your Exposure to me....you will sell your Exposure to me...". Or perhaps subliminal messaging: I think you need to give your amplifier more Exposure Richard, I can help with this... :lol:
That's exactly what I'm going for! :-)
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