View Full Version : Gromit's music centre...
brian2957
12-12-2012, 10:28
Interesting . Please keep us posted on these Richard .
Interesting . Please keep us posted on these Richard .
Will do Brian. :)
My folks popped up for a visit today, bringing 'my' old Super Tablettes with them. Sadly, one of the tweeters hasn't survived - purely by accident obviously, I think on picking one of the speakers up, dad has put a thumb or finger into the grille and pushed the tweeter in. I ran a few tunes through them, swapping channels to ascertain any imbalance between each side, and can't really detect any real problems. However I will order up a new Scanspeak D2010 (still available than heavens!) as despite my best efforts with the sellotape/vacuum cleaner etc the dome just won't pop out. It's only 50 quid or so for a new one from Falcon Acoustics, in fact it may be worth getting a matched pair.
How do they sound? Bloody marvellous. Bass has real pitch, there's virtually no room reaction from them nor overhang. They're rich, yet perky and bright and vocal clarity - what the SuperTabs are famed for - is wonderful and so natural.
There's a very faint buzz from one speaker though, when music is played quietly (most noticeable on piano) but it can be cured by a quick but gentle 'flick' with a finger on the cone, after which it's clear as a bell. I'm putting this down to the fact that the ProAcs haven't had much use over the past few years, and certainly not at any volume to exercise the cones. If it doesn't clear over the next few weeks it'll be a quick trip to Wembley Loudspeakers to have the driver cleaned/checked out.
brian2957
12-12-2012, 21:04
My friend had a pair of tablettes a few years ago. Wonderful speakers , which really came into their own when used with the partnering stands . BTW do you still have the Royds Richard . I'm a big fan having owned a pair of Minstrels . I now have a pair of A7s which I swap periodically with my Rega EL8s in my system .How do the 2010is compare with the Royds ?
BTW do you still have the Royds Richard . I'm a big fan having owned a pair of Minstrels . I now have a pair of A7s which I swap periodically with my Rega EL8s in my system .How do the 2010is compare with the Royds ?
<sucks through teeth> That's a really hard question to answer Brian. Many speakers came and went through chez Gromit when I had the Merlins (including Minstrels) and not one get near to what they could do with the musical message. Minstrels naturally came close, but sounded less couth - bags of fun of course - but still only 9/10 to the Merlins' 10/10.
The 2010's, despite their lowly price, are more serious - perhaps even grown-up sounding. Having sold the Royds some months ago it'd be very difficult to compare them like for like in terms of tonality etc but in how they play music I feel our sonic memory is quite accurate. In this instance the Q's don't have that effervescent bounce - that feeling of listening to music with the brakes off - that good Royds give. However, for just over a £ton they're fantastic. :)
brian2957
12-12-2012, 21:30
'That feeling of listening to music with the brakes off ' is a very interesting way of describing the character of the Royds , but very accurate methinks . That's the characteristic which attracted me to them , When I sold the Minstrels I owned several pairs of speakers but was ultimately unhappy with them all because I was looking for that elusive sound which you describe . The only speakers which came close were the Regas . I believe that there was a historical collaboration between Joe Ackroyd and Rega in the production of their speakers . Do you think the 2010is still need some running- in where things might improve ? incidentally I see Richard Dunn is offering a Royd speaker repair service over on the HFS .
'That feeling of listening to music with the brakes off ' is a very interesting way of describing the character of the Royds , but very accurate methinks
Brian - the analogy really comes from playing a musical instrument, but I think it's possible to draw parallels with hifi. When I was having Clarinet lessons many years ago at the Royal College of Music, my teacher (Colin Courtney - God rest his soul) used to stress the importance of playing melody/dynamics with as little resistance as possible. Fight them with tension, and they will sound strangled, and be reflected in the final sound. Imagine the sound you are creating is a ball, hanging in the air, but it has zero mass. You can move it around at will - simply a thought will do it - and it will respond with no inertia. Now, imagine that ball is heavy - it needs a lot of effort to make it respond. It still looks the same as the massless one, in fact it will do the same things, but it isn't able to react in the same way.
Guess which one the Royds were? ;)
So many speakers (and hifi systems) are the heavy ball - sure they sound ok, but they're musically clumsy, hard work and ultimately unrewarding. There's way too much tension in the musical muscles.
For years I've tried as much as possible to implement the above criteria when listening to kit - it doesn't always work, but it brings real joy when it does all click into place. When folk have heard my systems (mostly at Scalford really) it's been chosen and set up to fit the above description.
Could be an interesting new find for folks! :)
Well if you lot were regular readers or subscribers to What Hifi? like me - you would have known about these for a good few years! :lol: They're certainly well received elsewhere as well, and they look lovely too. :)
Reid Malenfant
12-12-2012, 21:54
Well if you lot were regular readers or subscribers to What Hifi? like me - you would have known about these for a good few years! :lol:
Don't believe anthing you read, & only half of what you see...
Then you'll be ok :D
Just because some rag says they are good doesn't mean didley... Trust your ears, in fact I'd much rather trust any member on here than a magazine :cool:
brian2957
12-12-2012, 23:03
Yup , I think I know what you mean Richard . Unfortunately every piece of hifi equipment is a compromise .
hoopsontoast
13-12-2012, 07:40
Richard, be interested to see how the tablettes compare to the kolts considering they have the same mid-bass driver. They are on my to do list at some point in the future.
Well if you lot were regular readers or subscribers to What Hifi? like me - you would have known about these for a good few years! :lol:
Lol - you know I don't read that pish! :eyebrows:
The only hi-fi magazine I read regularly now is HFN, which I subscribe to, and contains the sort of stuff that interests me :)
Marco.
The Tecchy's back up & running again, and wearing this little pup...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01362.jpg
Rare Bird
14-12-2012, 01:42
Lol - you know I don't read that pish! :eyebrows:
The only hi-fi magazine I read regularly now is HFN, which I subscribe to, and contains the sort of stuff that interests me :)
Marco.
yeh i have lots of those pre 1973 ;)
Aye, when hi-fi mags were hi-fi mags, eh dude? ;)
Oh, congrats on the Rega Carbon, Richard!
Marco.
Aye, when hi-fi mags were hi-fi mags, eh dude? ;)
Oh, congrats on the Rega Carbon, Richard!
Marco.
Thanks Marco :)
The Jelco's just arrived too yip yah!!! :)
Will have to get back to John as I don't think the cable he's supplied will fit as it has a straight connector, looks like the 750 needs a right-angled one. Will know when the adaptor plate arrives and I can get it bolted together.
freefallrob
14-12-2012, 09:45
Marvelous, hows the Carbon, come on first impressions, we all can't wait:D.
Edit, ah just spotted it in the other thread!
Thanks Marco :)
The Jelco's just arrived too yip yah!!! :)
Will have to get back to John as I don't think the cable he's supplied will fit as it has a straight connector, looks like the 750 needs a right-angled one. Will know when the adaptor plate arrives and I can get it bolted together.
Nice one on the Jelco, Richard. As for the cable, I'm pretty sure that I used a straight one, when I had a Jelco. Pity you never thought to ask about tonearm cable reccos, before you went ahead and got one, as we'd have all said 'go for a Jannis'! ;)
Marco.
Nice one on the Jelco, Richard. As for the cable, I'm pretty sure that I used a straight one, when I had a Jelco. Pity you never thought to ask about tonearm cable reccos, before you went ahead and got one, as we'd have all said 'go for a Jannis'! ;)
Marco.
Aye - mind you I looked at the price of them and I really don't want to fork out that much, not at the moment anyway. This is a purely 'get it working' sort of arrangement for the time being - the cable John sent me is a new Pro-Ject one which looks pretty good. Very nice quality plugs and a proper metal arm plug of decent weight.
No worries, dude. I get that. At some point, though, you'll have to marry the Jelco with an 'old nail' - t'would be rude not to! ;)
Marco.
No worries, dude. I get that. At some point, though, you'll have to marry the Jelco with an 'old nail' - t'would be rude not to! ;)
Marco.
Abso-belly-lootely. :)
Marvelous, hows the Carbon, come on first impressions, we all can't wait:D.
Edit, ah just spotted it in the other thread!
Just put an hour or so's use under the Carbon's tip and it does indeed sound pretty darn good. For example, playing Michael Brecker's first album and the track 'Nothing Personal' there's a repetitive E/F#/G acoustic bass line where the first 2 notes are played on the beat, the third is at a slight syncopation to colour the rhythm. However, the bass doesn't always follow the same rhymic pattern which adds interest. The Carbon picks out the plucked bass's natural decay quite beautifully and has great pitch definition with no unnatural bloom (one of my pet hates tbh) allowing the track to rip along.
Sure, the ProAcs are helping here as they're quite dry at the bottom end but the Carbon is certainly helping here. I'm sure things will get even better once the Jelco's in place. :)
Touchstone Audio
14-12-2012, 12:47
Hi Richard, glad the arm arrived today. You should be ok with the straight arm cable, the one below i did some time ago had one. keep me posted :)
Hi John,
I like the wooden record weight, shown in the pic. Do you sell that, and if so, what/how much is it? :)
Marco.
Touchstone Audio
14-12-2012, 12:57
Hi Marco
That's actually my record weight, made from solid Ebony. I will find out if I can get anymore made. Lovely is it not?
Indeed it is, John! I'd love one, as my arm board is made from solid ebony (a fab sounding material for audio purposes), so if you can get one made at a reasonable price, as long as it weighs around 360g (the weight of my current record weight), as I don't like high-mass weights or clamps, then you'll have a sale! :)
Marco.
Touchstone Audio
14-12-2012, 13:05
Ok, let me do some homework. The lid wont go down on a Tech tho when its on but I never liked the lid anyway :)
Hi Richard, glad the arm arrived today. You should be ok with the straight arm cable, the one below i did some time ago had one. keep me posted :)
That's good news John - I've just measured the full height of the arm and we should be fine.
Thanks also for sending the arm & cable so quickly - been absolutely great to deal with you. :thumbsup:
Ok, let me do some homework. The lid wont go down on a Tech tho when its on but I never liked the lid anyway :)
I never use the lid, so that's not an issue. PM me when you have some details :)
Marco.
My baby ProAcs - well, one of the anyway...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7388_zps9f17b2a2.jpg
Oh, here's the other one...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7386_zps4a4a9fe0.jpg
LOVE that old ProAc typeface!
Shame there's no midrange on later baby Pro-Acs - summat like an ELEVEN db suckout on the Tablette Signature I remember - and several db exaggerated saddle-back on the standard article.....
Stilol, makes up for modern amps not having a loudness switch :lol:
We're now Jelcofied. :)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01381_zps3f8ddb8f.jpg
freefallrob
20-12-2012, 20:47
Looking lovely!
Is it sounding lovely?
What are the improvements over the standard arm?
:)
Looking lovely!
Is it sounding lovely?
What are the improvements over the standard arm?
:)
Hi Rob - thanks, it does look da bizz. :) Yes, the 750's a lovely looking bit of kit, and the finish on it is flawless as are the bearings which are amongst the most sensitive I've encountered in years. Balancing the arm to 'zero' once the cartridge is installed, give the headshell a very gentle tap with your finger and the arm will sway up and down for ages. This one's in virtually spotless condition too, with hardly a speck on it apart from the inevitable tightening collar marks on the pillar.
How does it sound?
This is where things start getting a little more difficult. Is it better than the std arm? Yes, of course. By much? No. There is more detail, more focus, and less bloom to the sound (it does sound a fair bit drier). I had a brief 20 mins listen to the std deck before doing the arm-swap and less than 30 mins later the Jelco was playing away.
What worries me is the lack of dynamic contrast; it's sounding strangled, fuzzy - 'dirty' even, as though a veil has been thrown over the music. Could the cartridge be to blame? Perhaps - maybe the Carbon/std arm is a synergistic bulls-eye which I've discovered purely by accident. The sense of motion, drive, damn it interest has gone. Musical phrase shape has gone - there's no build-up of tension, nor its release in that phrase (think of a long paragraph where the punctuation or full stops have been removed and you'll get my drift). The music's gone, basically. It was there before, in small doses admittedly, but present nonetheless. The Carbon woke the std deck up rather nicely.
Does the Jelco deserve a better cartridge? Of course it does - this beast will take pretty much anything that can be thrown at it. But surely it will be able to eek out every ounce of performance from the Carbon which is a stiff little blighter so in theory should like a bit of mass.
Is the Sony ES amp's phonostage not helping? Maybe. But, and here was a surprise; Jerry very kindly offered me the use of his NC-psu'd Trichord Dino at Scalford this year and on MM the difference between it and the Sony's built in one was too close to call. Seriously. Unless I can get my hands on a good stand-alone phonostage to beg steal or borrow I won't be able to rule this out though.
Is this adding even more weight to the 'for heaven's sake do the psu/feet/bearing etc etc before even thinking about changing the arm' method of approaching the SL12? Looks like it.
I haven't lost hope yet though, I've a full morning at home tomorrow to get this bugger singing where I'll go over a full set-up once again. I've a sneaking feeling that the Jelco (in the same way my AO-upgraded RB251 did) is finding fault in the turntable itself, allowing too much of its standard-condition colours to show though which puts an interesting slant on things. It's also made me wonder how a fully-AO-fettled RB251 (with Johnnie's new bearings in particular) might sound on a full-blown Marco-spec 1210.
Well, this is all rather frustrating. Re-fitted and re-set the arm/cartridge this morning, taking absolute care over everything. Then had a play with different tracking weights and vta on the cartridge but cannot really inject any life into the system. I now have the opportunity to borrow another phonostage which will either rule out or blame my Sony amp.
It just sounds so dull and uninspiring. Sadly I don't really have the funds to start throwing another psu at the deck - not yet anyway - nor to spend out on a cartridge with more clarity.
Idlewithnodrive
21-12-2012, 16:21
Well, this is all rather frustrating. Sadly I don't really have the funds to start throwing another psu at the deck - not yet anyway - nor to spend out on a cartridge with more clarity.
Surely you shouldn't need to Richard. If the Techie sounded better, didn't sound strangled / dull etc with the STD arm and the Carbon then it must be purely an arm / cart synergy thing.
We know the arm works well on a Techie and nothing else has changed.
Surely you shouldn't need to Richard. If the Techie sounded better, didn't sound strangled / dull etc with the STD arm and the Carbon then it must be purely an arm / cart synergy thing.
We know the arm works well on a Techie and nothing else has changed.
Think this is the case Mike - the Carbon was a nice'n'lively little thing in the std arm but it sounds disjointed/harsh with ploddy, almost thumpy bass in the Jelco. I'm going to stick with the arm though because it does leave scope in the future for a better, more demanding cartridge. A 103 beckons, but it would need a better phonostage.
Of course there's going to be a certain amount of expecation bias here, but the differences between the standard arm and the Jelco weren't as marked as I was hoping for.
Ammonite Audio
21-12-2012, 18:51
Have you tried tweaking the arm and armboard mounting bolts? Maybe slackening them off a touch will help.
Have you tried tweaking the arm and armboard mounting bolts? Maybe slackening them off a touch will help.
Got to be worth a try - I didn't tighten them too much on installation but may back them off then just nip them slightly. I am still leaning towards the theory (aka 'clutching at straws' :D ) that the new arm is uncovering some cracks in the otherwise standard turntable's sound which the Tecchy arm is papering over.
Idlewithnodrive
21-12-2012, 19:49
Surely it's got to be the decent feet and mat route before cart etc ?
chris@panteg
22-12-2012, 00:32
Well, this is all rather frustrating. Re-fitted and re-set the arm/cartridge this morning, taking absolute care over everything. Then had a play with different tracking weights and vta on the cartridge but cannot really inject any life into the system. I now have the opportunity to borrow another phonostage which will either rule out or blame my Sony amp.
It just sounds so dull and uninspiring. Sadly I don't really have the funds to start throwing another psu at the deck - not yet anyway - nor to spend out on a cartridge with more clarity.
Richard , what you're describing is pretty much what I'm getting with mine ,and that's with a vantage psu ,bearing ,platter ,309 and 33EV !
I'm starting to think its just the way the deck sounds ,bland and boring .
Hopefully a cheapish suggestion before you throw the baby out with the bathwater...
Use a lightweight Techie style headshell wit the carbon, if you're not doing this already and try for an ebony armboard, which I suspect this arm needs (Rega's too on one of these decks) - rigid but enough to offer better? hf absorption (he says, searching for possible reasons...)
Hopefully a cheapish suggestion before you throw the baby out with the bathwater...
Use a lightweight Techie style headshell wit the carbon, if you're not doing this already and try for an ebony armboard, which I suspect this arm needs (Rega's too on one of these decks) - rigid but enough to offer better? hf absorption (he says, searching for possible reasons...)
Thanks Dave - ideas worth trying, certainly. Not sure the Jelly would balance out with a Tecchy shell as it's so light, being less than half the weight of the Jelco shell, but if I get time later will give it a go. The c/weight is quite close to the bearing housing as it is. Interestingly, when I had the 2M Black (what a gorgeous cartridge that is!) it sounded demonstrably better in the Technics shell vs the Sumiko HS12, using the same h/shell leads.
There's plenty of inner detail going on here, and bass is firm, but there's a hardness to vocals/ride cymbal etc which isn't easy on the ears. The presence region has been given a little too much presence - and the ProAcs aren't really shrinking violets either (very different to the Ref 8's which I really don't like). Still love the wee things though. :)
The Jelco clearly has a good grip on proceedings, but I'm also wondering if the brand new arm leads are bedding in. Not that I'm a true believer in such things happening, or rather drastic change coming about because of it, but it's always a possible reason. Also, the electrical qualities of the wires (capacitance etc) may be a fair bit different to the std Technics and affecting the Carbon's performance.
All possibly shots in the dark but you've got to try. :lol:
A couple of hours' listening at decent volume this morning has me with the sneaking suspicion that it is a slightly uneasy cart/arm marriage. The Carbon was, as I said a while back, an absolute cracker in the Technics arm - synergy doing its thing very nicely indeed. :)
Ammonite Audio
22-12-2012, 11:58
The Jelco clearly has a good grip on proceedings, but I'm also wondering if the brand new arm leads are bedding in.
What arm lead are you using? If it's the pink Jelco Neglex, then I believe you may have your culprit - that Neglex is an awful, thick, dull sounding thing, in my experience of course. An Audio Origami arm cable solved the problem in fine style when I had my SA-750D.
What arm lead are you using? If it's the pink Jelco Neglex, then I believe you may have your culprit - that Neglex is an awful, thick, dull sounding thing, in my experience of course.
It is - although the sound I'm hearing, whilst not the polar opposite of your description, certainly doesn't lean that way. If anything it's quite light-weight, lacking body and gravitas - bright and a tad harsh aswell.
I wouldn't rule out trying a different cable, but am very reluctant to start buying stuff to be honest. Could get expensive! :)
jagdesign
22-12-2012, 16:59
Have you tried using the oil damping Richard? In all honesty it does sound like an arm/cart mismatch, worth checking the numbers if you haven't already http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database_tools.php#ResonanceCalculator
Have you tried using the oil damping Richard? In all honesty it does sound like an arm/cart mismatch, worth checking the numbers if you haven't already http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database_tools.php#ResonanceCalculator
James - I haven't yet checked if there's any damping oil in the arm, but to be honest I'm not overly sure how to do this. I put the numbers into the VE calculator earlier today and they come up at just a smidge over 12Hz so whilst at the top end, there's nothing drastically out of range.
I also see that the AT91 has a carbon cantilever - I was under the (false) impression that Rega had added this, or at least persuaded the big AT to do a run of them.
jagdesign
22-12-2012, 20:24
Yeah 12Hz isn't too bad.
You can check the oil bath by simply unscrewing the cap on top of the bearing housing and dipping a cotton bud or similar to check for oil. I filled mine with all the oil included then replaced the cap. I've read that how tight you have the cap effectively dials in how much damping you have, I can sort of see this working but am slightly sceptical. Nevertheless, using the oil in my case did seem to help the slightly overblown bass I was getting. Might be worth a shot?
:scratch:
Bland, boring and flat are the last words l would use to describre the Techie, at least with the standard arm.....................:cool:
Idlewithnodrive
22-12-2012, 20:38
:scratch:
Bland, boring and flat are the last words l would use to describre the Techie, at least with the standard arm.....................:cool:
Exactly the same as that.
As I see it, it pretty much has to be the arm / cart synergy. Just ain't happenin' dude :(
Richard - Hugo is right, the Neglex is a poor arm cable and is holding back the sound. The Techie should not sound bland or boring with the Jelco arm.
I also see that the AT91 has a carbon cantilever - I was under the (false) impression that Rega had added this, or at least persuaded the big AT to do a run of them.
I think the AT91/Carbon was conceived to be as kind and universal as possible in a huge range of different turntable systems. The lower output of these compared to the AT95E and AT105/110E may have something to do with this too although I have no idea otherwise.... As yet, I haven't directly compared the AT91 (3600) to the Carbon to see how similar or different they are, but I remember the comments of dull yet hard being thrown at the 105 back in the day - not something I agree with judging by my sample anyway.
Arm/cartridge matching is a funny thing. The AT120E was damned with faint praise in 'Choice a short while ago, yet in the old Garrard AP76 with its lightweight but flimsy arm, it tracks and sounds a treat, with no bass issues nor treble spitch or peakiness. The mechanically similar and supposedly superior Garrard Zero 100 I've just got hold of is far far worse for cartridge compatibility and stability; the arm, despite extremely low friction and with other refinements over the lower models in the auto mechanism, needing two grammes for best stability, the high inertia working against the flimsiness of the headshell on it's pivot and possible centre-of-gravity issues affecting stability of the stylus in the groove.
Seriously, with the better base in which to mount the arm pillar, and I think a hardwood board on the techie, the jelco should start to show what it can do. I don't know the neglex wires, but the pro-patch Johnnie uses in his plain looking but excellent replacement exit cable is superb for this purpose and apparently beats the boutique stuff SME use with their better arms out to the amp..
jandl100
23-12-2012, 07:04
:scratch:
Bland, boring and flat are the last words l would use to describre the Techie, at least with the standard arm.....................:cool:
+1
It seems to me that you've mentally committed yourself to an upgrade path, Richard, when perhaps leaving well enough alone would be more sensible given budgetary constraints?
Mayhap revert to the synergy of the Techie arm / Rega cart and avoid blowing ever increasing dollops of cash just to retrieve the musical enjoyment you used to have?
Just a thought. :)
Been there, done that. :doh: Maybe time to sit back and reconsider? :cool:
:scratch:
Bland, boring and flat are the last words l would use to describre the Techie, at least with the standard arm.....................:cool:
It's a strange one Andy (and this is clearly more evidence of us listening for different strands in our music) but it's exactly what a standard Tecchy sounds like to my ears. Every time I hear a bog-stock one I keep feeling it needs to be woken from its slumbers.
Been there, done that. :doh: Maybe time to sit back and reconsider? :cool:
A PL71 or PS-6750 would be nice. ;)
Ok here goes...
1. Opened up the top of the damping fluid reservoir - it's nearly full of fluid, or certainly looks to have a lot in there. Remove arm, turn it upsde down and wait 20 mins for the fluid to drain out. Result? A bit more zest to the sound.
2. Remove the standard feet, replace with RDC cones (none-threaded unfortunately) which whilst a bit precarious has tidied things up - more transient impact certainly and less 'hash'. Best compromise seems to be to use the top board off my Audiotech table and put the cones under that.
3. Fit M75ED - bit soft and woolly (as one would expect I guess) but less shouty, and more pleasant to listen to. Think the stylus isn't in its first flush of youth as there's a fair bit of sibilance and distortion on peaks. Still, whilst it won't stay in the arm it's a valuable exercise.
4. Been getting channel imbalance - change records and one channel dies. Check arm cable, there's a duff connection. Swap channels on back of amp, dead channel follows cable. There's also a small amount of distortion on that faulty channel too, indicating possible weak connection which won't help the sonics.
5. Going to borrow a low mileage Dyna 10X5 off a mate this evening to hear a more demanding cartridge in the Jelco. He also says he might have a spare arm cable which I can borrow.
jandl100
23-12-2012, 12:06
A PL71 --- would be nice. ;)
Ouch. :(
Are you using the deck without lid attached? These lids aren't as good as the earlier 70's examples and neither do the feedback any good at all.
Ouch. :(
Sorry Jerry - only jesting. ;)
I'd probably take the Sony over it though...at a push. :)
Seriously though, this is turning out to be a bit of a 'fun' morning...
Now reckon my amp's on the blink - the channel losing signal (yes the arm lead's not helping) is always the r/h one but it comes and goes, as though the system is going out of phase momentarily, but only on one channel. I know that sounds daft, but if you could be here to hear it you'd recognise it straight away. It loses h/f extension for starters than gradually fades away. Still sound there, but the level drops - it's doing it through headphones too so would indicated a pre-amp section problem.
Switch the amp off, then back on, and it clears again. Sad thing is that before I do anything else a new amp could end up being on the cards - for what it would cost to fix I'm not 100% sure it would be economical to do so. :(
Are you using the deck without lid attached? These lids aren't as good as the earlier 70's examples and neither do the feedback any good at all.
No Dave - always remove the lid completely. :)
Oh dear - too many variables to be able to give a diagnosis. Guess you have to fix the amp first, before returning to the deck issues.
Oh dear - too many variables to be able to give a diagnosis. Guess you have to fix the amp first, before returning to the deck issues.
Indeed Martin - although hopefully it could end up being a cheap fix. Just need to find someone local who's *better with a soldering iron than me.
*Someone who knows what to do with one once it's plugged in. :D
Ok, let me do some homework...
Hi John,
Any more news on the ebony weight? :)
Marco.
hoopsontoast
28-12-2012, 13:35
FWIW, Richard, my old 670ES did this but was cured with a few presses of the A or B speaker selector switch, I think it was a dry joint on one of those, not sure.
Although it was either in balance or not, it did not fade away at all.
FWIW, Richard, my old 670ES did this but was cured with a few presses of the A or B speaker selector switch, I think it was a dry joint on one of those, not sure.
Although it was either in balance or not, it did not fade away at all.
Thanks Rob - I've tried this a few times, which does seem to work up to a point. I'm not sure whether the relays are channel-related (ie one relay is left channel on both A&B for example) or if each one is for both channels on each separate speaker output. Using the output 'B' still brings the same symptoms so I'm not sure what's going on (electronics aren't my forté I'm afraid!).
Just now I've had a brief play with the switches - the relay always clicks (as you'll know with your 670 there's the faint 'tick' from the rear of the amp) when the buttons operated. Played a mono signal in on a line input, push the A button and the r/h channel goes quieter - keep pressing it in and out (20+ times) and it gets louder, then softer, then louder etc etc each time the speaker output goes live. I'm wondering if there's a voltage/current drop across the realy - enough to make contact for sound to appear but not always quite enough.
Would like to get it fixed as the amp's great but I'm really not confident about delving into the amp's innards for fear of breaking something. I'd rather sell it on to someone who can fix it themself easily.
hoopsontoast
28-12-2012, 14:34
Ah cool, I have no idea on the insides, cant be much more help I am afriad.
Ah cool, I have no idea on the insides, cant be much more help I am afriad.
No worries Rob - you probably know more than me though. :D
I'm going to try and find someone local to me who could take a look at the amp for me, could be difficult though as Lincs isn't exactly overrun with 'old school' hifi dealers.
A bit of 'me' time whilst the girls watch some Disney stuff in the family room...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01447.jpg
brian2957
01-01-2013, 12:45
Very nice Richard . Your setup looks similar to mine physically , However I use an all Rega system with a music server ( I get all my ripped albums showing on my 37 inch plasma TV as you can see) . I am lucky enough to have my own listening room , whrere I spend more time than I should . How's the amp behaving BTW ? I see you're still using the Proacs , might we see the return of the Q Acoustics . Wonder where we'll all be , system - wise this time next year . Happy new year to you , and all on AOS .
Nice looking Mancave Richard...
Are you remote controlling your server with the tablet?
Apple Remote Desktop to your Mac is it?
Been playing around with controlling my various PCs dotted around the house with my Ipad, even managed to get some work done with it sitting in the lounge on the sofa. :)
Nice setup mate.
Hi guys - thanks for the comments. :)
Brian - the Sony seems to be working perfectly at the moment, giving it a good work out over the last few days seems to have cured the imbalance issue. The ProAcs are quite inefficient so the amp needs driving reasonably hard to give a decent level. I'm really clueless as to why this should've worked but hey ho...a new amp is off the shopping list for now which is good news. Presently looking at a new dac (as you know) and possibly a new cartridge - the Rega Carbon's a hoot on rock/jazz but on orchestral it's a tad unruly, to put it mildly.
Gary - nothing so sophisticated as that here I'm afraid (I wouldn't know where to start!). Just chatting with old friends on FB whilst the TV/Humax plays through my Fiio dac into the hifi system. Does sound pretty good though. The sound producer in Vienna could teach the BBC a thing or 2 about mic'ing up and balancing an orchestra - quite a refreshingly natural sound.
A Happy New Year to you and yours. :)
My new dac arrived today - a Teac UD-H01.
Got it all up and running now, including downloading the Teac drivers for my Mac to utilise the async USB input.
So far, so pretty good. :)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01487.jpg
Nice one Richard and damn, it's a looker too ain't it? ;)
Nice one Richard and damn, it's a looker too ain't it? ;)
Well it's a darn sight better looking than me, that's for sure. :D
I've left a CD running on repeat for a few hours through it now and will have a time this evening to have a proper listen to it.
USB input does sound particularly fine.
My babiES...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01518.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01519.jpg
And the new kid on the block...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01516.jpg
It only arrived about an hour ago so have had it sat near(ish) to a radiator to help lift any residual condensation before plugging it in. Will report back soon...
brian2957
25-01-2013, 11:03
You're very good at digging out the Sony ES amps Richard . I've looked quite a few times and they seem quite rare here. I eventually went for a Brio R and am very happy with it .Hope this one sounds as good as it looks mate.
You're very good at digging out the Sony ES amps Richard . I've looked quite a few times and they seem quite rare here. I eventually went for a Brio R and am very happy with it .Hope this one sounds as good as it looks mate.
Thanks Brian :)
This one came about from a thread started on Wigwam by Mike (MJ/Idlewithnodrive) asking for a good, used solid state amp. Faithless entered the thread saying he'd got a very clean 770ES up for sale - wasn't really suitable for Mike so I jumped on it. Rob (Hoops) has just got hold of one too. Typical ES 'brick outhouse' build, and it's got to be nigh on double the weight of the 670ES (hardly a featherweight itself at 12kg or so). It just about fits on the shelf in the rack but will watch how that goes because by all accounts these big'uns kick out a bit of heat.
Oh...couldn't wait any longer so just plugged it in 10 mins ago and played a couple of tracks. Back in a mo...
southall-1998
25-01-2013, 11:55
Interesting looking amps, Richard. Never heard those big black Sony boxes before :) Must sound very good!
brian2957
25-01-2013, 12:04
Yes I must visit those other forums more . Problem is you need around 100 posts or so to use the services offered by them such as PMs and buying and selling . The 770ES looks like a beast of an amp BTW. Hope you're enjoying it mate.:)
istari_knight
25-01-2013, 12:37
Congrats ! By all accounts they are pure, neutral, effortless, unending power on tap.... IMO you have arrived at the point where you no longer need to think about amplifiers... Just sit back & enjoy ;)
Canetoad
25-01-2013, 12:52
Hi Richard. Looks very nice. I'm enjoying the Sony N55ES power amp in my system at the moment too. :)
Have you received the (new) PL-71 yet? :scratch:
Thanks chaps. :)
Congrats ! By all accounts they are pure, neutral, effortless, unending power on tap.... IMO you have arrived at the point where you no longer need to think about amplifiers... Just sit back & enjoy ;)
I'd like to think this could be the case James - would be good to get off the amplifier treadmill for a while. Saying that, I've had the 670ES for a year and never really felt the need for change (apart from the occasional 'I wonder if...' moments). :)
The 770ES is doing what the 670 does - it's clean, pure, neither seeming to add nor subtract anything. The 770 just does it more - the picture is bigger, bass isn't greater in quantity but it kicks harder - a lot harder. I'm using the little Q 2010i's at the moment before they become part of a second system in the family room (with the 670ES at the helm).
Playing a couple of tracks off the Dave Weckl 'Transition' album there are a few bass lines where Tom Kennedy plays deep, fast riffs in parallel fifths. On previous amps, the interval was there but on the 770 it's a good deal more obvious, and there's less lag into the bargain. There's greater interaction between sounds/insturments but in a natural way. And yowzas this thing has some grunt - it's like sticking a Hayabusa motor in a moped. :D
brian2957
25-01-2013, 13:09
Great stuff mate :):cool:
Hi Richard. Looks very nice. I'm enjoying the Sony N55ES power amp in my system at the moment too. :)
Have you received the (new) PL-71 yet? :scratch:
Nice one Bernie - glad the Sony's working out well. :)
Hopefully getting the PL71 next thursday. :)
It's awake...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01529.jpg
And in its new home - runs warm but seems to have enough breathing space above:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01527.jpg
I'm liking the 'spontaneous twin drive' - presumably this means it responds in real time on two channels, aka a stereo amplifier :)
Looks a nice bit of kit though.
I'm liking the 'spontaneous twin drive' - presumably this means it responds in real time on two channels, aka a stereo amplifier :)
Looks a nice bit of kit though.
Darn clever those Japanese chaps. ;)
Actually I believe it's something to do with the power supply in that no matter how much draw there is on the power side of the amp, the pre-stage will always receive its quota of electrimutical thingies.
<spot the bloke who didn't do a degree in sparky things> :D
hoopsontoast
25-01-2013, 17:05
Good old amp isnt it ;)
Good old amp isnt it ;)
It ain't too shabby, that's for sure. :)
istari_knight
25-01-2013, 18:01
Darn clever those Japanese chaps. ;)
Actually I believe it's something to do with the power supply in that no matter how much draw there is on the power side of the amp, the pre-stage will always receive its quota of electrimutical thingies.
<spot the bloke who didn't do a degree in sparky things> :D
To quote Sony's marketing literature:
"A proprietary Sony amplifier power supply technology which employs separate voltage rails for the driver & output stages. This methods provides greater headroom and helps prevent clipping"
AFAIK most of the marketing terms for circuit designs are copyrighted as Accuphase had to purchase the license from Sony to use "Spontaneous Twin Drive" amongst other Sony "technologies" in the P-4100 which apparently is a race tuned Sony TA-N77ES.
As you say, clever chaps those Japanese but their marketing depts come up with some rubbish!
julesd68
25-01-2013, 18:08
The "Gibraltar" chassis is quite an extravagent moniker - is it really solid as a rock??
The "Gibraltar" chassis is quite an extravagent moniker - is it really solid as a rock??
Oh aye yeah - made from pure Sonyunobtanium 238 :D
Well, had the amp playing away for a few hours now and it's nicely warmed through. Thrown a fair few musical genres at it, from Vaughan Williams 3 to some Dave Weckl to Black Dyke and it's not put a foot wrong. It's just so unflappable, huge dynamic reserves both transient and musical (ie the ability to warm-up and cool-down a musical phrase). The track 'Tee Funk' off Dave Weckl's 'Heads Up' album has a great slow groove and the Sony gets real down & dirty with this - not quite heard this chart sound so driven before.
Had the ProAcs back on line for the last hour and whilst the 670ES sounded really good through them, the 770's waking them up big style. The last time they sounded this good they were on the end of my old Exposure IVDR. Proof that they thrive on lots of good ol'fashioned solid state power.
Some better pictures now I've got my decent camera working again...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7425.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7418_2.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7437_2.jpg
Keeping things up to date...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7452_zps43ca8cdd.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7462_zpscd16895d.jpg
Cool looking deck. I envy your tidy rack, might sort mine out to look like that tomorrow.
Glad to see the PL71 back home?
Glad to see the PL71 back home?
Think so Dave - this one's in very nice cosmetic condition (which I suppose is often harder to remedy if tatty) but needs a couple of bits'n'bobs putting straight.
The armtube's very slightly twisted in its mating with the bearing assy (it can be released by undoing the small grubscrew underneath). Will get Johnnie to put it straight for me though. The arm bearings are in great shape though, no stiction that I can detect (it swings very sweetly) and no detectable play either.
The microswitch under the 33rpm button needs doing too but these are only a couple of quid. Just need to find the right part - I'm not good with electronic bits!!
Sonically this deck's ok - it's a bit wooly and lacklustre if I'm honest, doesn't have that satisfying balance of bite/warmth of the previous 71's I've owned. Could be having it sat up on the top of a heavy rack - I always used the good ol'Audiotech table which may end up being dragged out of the garage and dusted off for use. The sound's not helped by the Carbon having a slight channel imbalance - it centres-up better after half a side of an lp though; wonder if I've got a slightly duff one to be honest.
The Carbon majors on mid-bass to mid-midrange and above that it gets a little "safe" for some people. Fine and fantastic for £25, but I doubt it gives a 2M Blue any headaches.
The Carbon majors on mid-bass to mid-midrange and above that it gets a little "safe" for some people. Fine and fantastic for £25, but I doubt it gives a 2M Blue any headaches.
I'd agree - it doesn't really like large-scale orchestral stuff, and heavily modulated piano music sends it running for cover too. On stuff like old Genesis lp's it sounds marvellous though - quite rich, but snappy and with lots of colour. For 25 quid it's a riot. :)
Couple more pics:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01545_zpsbd60dbbb.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01547_zps88ab7f97.jpg
Idlewithnodrive
04-02-2013, 14:38
Your rig is looking amazing Rich.
I'm just settling in with the Sony TA-F530ES, which is quite an amazing little (?) thing for what it cost TBH.
Doing a fantastic job with the Minskies; they've never sounded better :yay:
Your rig is looking amazing Rich.
I'm just settling in with the Sony TA-F530ES, which is quite an amazing little (?) thing for what it cost TBH.
Doing a fantastic job with the Minskies; they've never sounded better :yay:
Thanks Mike. :)
Chuffed you're liking the Sony - one day folk in the this country will 'get' these and their prices will go up accordingly. All I'd say is get 'em bought whilst they're cheap. Fortunately (for buyers) there are a lot of badge snobs out there so in the same way with stuff like the SL1200/10 etc even really good ones are always superb vfm.
My 670ES could well be up for sale soon as it's now working pretty much perfectly (apart from the input selector knob which just needs a couple of tweaks to get it to settle) and sounding fabulous. The 770ES is just a beast.
Idlewithnodrive
04-02-2013, 15:24
Thanks Mike. :)
Chuffed you're liking the Sony - one day folk in the this country will 'get' these and their prices will go up accordingly. All I'd say is get 'em bought whilst they're cheap. Fortunately (for buyers) there are a lot of badge snobs out there so in the same way with stuff like the SL1200/10 etc even really good ones are always superb vfm.
My 670ES could well be up for sale soon as it's now working pretty much perfectly (apart from the input selector knob which just needs a couple of tweaks to get it to settle) and sounding fabulous. The 770ES is just a beast.
Let me know if / when you decide to sell the 670ES. Could very well be interested :)
Let me know if / when you decide to sell the 670ES. Could very well be interested :)
Will do Mike - it won't be expensive put it that way as it's not absolutely perfect. Cosmetically it's virtually unmarked. :)
Just spent some of this afternoon waxing the plinth on the Pioneer using Urad wax - this stuff is designed for horse tack and motorcycle leathers but works beautifully on wood (it's recommended for teak decking on boats too). Great thing is that unlike Renapur it doesn't leave an oily residue behind (which attracts dust). Brings up the plinth just lovely...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7472_zps3dde589c.jpg
Home-baked amp bake-off...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7546_zps7f681818.jpg
hoopsontoast
13-02-2013, 13:42
Nice, I never had the 670ES and 770ES side by side to compare, but thought they were pretty much identical apart from bass control/depth at medium/higher levels. Maybe the 770ES had a little extra warmth/body on vocals.
southall-1998
13-02-2013, 13:47
Gromit,
Good to see that you still have those Grado SR80s. May I ask what amp are you using for the Grados?
Nice, I never had the 670ES and 770ES side by side to compare, but thought they were pretty much identical apart from bass control/depth at medium/higher levels. Maybe the 770ES had a little extra warmth/body on vocals.
It's quite interesting Rob - the 770ES has a lot more clout and more clarity/separation, but with that feeling of rock-solid security you get from an amp with huge amounts of dynamic headroom. That's through its line inputs...
Through their respective phonostages the gap is narrower with the smaller amp being smoother, more organic and flowing. Listening to vinyl with the ProAcs hooked up, I actually prefer the 670ES by a short nose.
Will be taking both amps to Scalford and will swap them round at various times for those who may be interested in hearing the differences.
With the tiny (hardly bigger than JBL Control Ones) Q2010i's the 770ES, with CD, is a total riot. Hard to believe the scale these little speakers can portray with a big amp up their chuffs - they just sing on the end of lots of clean power. :)
julesd68
13-02-2013, 13:50
Richard, I think you want those Minstrels which are an absolute steal at £250 as you know!
Gromit,
Good to see that you still have those Grado SR80s. May I ask what amp are you using for the Grados?
Any socket that's available Shane. :)
Just the Sony amp, plus the Teac dac has its own headphone out (which is actually very good indeed).
Great fun headphones, had them for years now. :)
Richard, I think you want those Minstrels which are an absolute steal at £250 as you know!
You mean the Merlins on PFM?
They were sold this morning sadly, just when I was clearing the financial decks to pay for them. The seller was after a pair of Tablettes too. :(
Ah well...thank heavens no one's at home at the moment to see me cry. :brickwall:
southall-1998
13-02-2013, 13:54
Any socket that's available Shane. :)
Just the Sony amp, plus the Teac dac has its own headphone out (which is actually very good indeed).
Great fun headphones, had them for years now. :)
Yes, heard they are easy to drive :)
julesd68
13-02-2013, 13:56
You mean the Merlins on PFM?
Yep - sorry old chap! They looked like minty mint too ...
You should have bought them first and then worried about how to pay for them later - just like I'm about to do!! :doh:
Yes, heard they are easy to drive :)
They are easy to drive, but they do like some current up them too.
They are easy to drive, but they do like some current up them too.
I'd agree - the best I heard them was with my old Slee Solo phones amp (with the psu upgrade). Bought them together from Walrus in London, compared the Grado/Slee with the Stax Basic system (4040?) and preferred the former on every count.
southall-1998
13-02-2013, 15:39
I'd agree - the best I heard them was with my old Slee Solo phones amp (with the psu upgrade). Bought them together from Walrus in London, compared the Grado/Slee with the Stax Basic system (4040?) and preferred the former on every count.
Very interesting, Richard. The other day I was trying my SR80s into an old Sansui AU-101. To my ears the sound was very enjoyable.
Very interesting, Richard. The other day I was trying my SR80s into an old Sansui AU-101. To my ears the sound was very enjoyable.
The Grados aren't the most neutral things going but they're a lot of fun. They're like Royd speakers in many ways - definitely a certain colour to them, but they get more right, as far as music is concerned, than stuff which costs many times their price.
I've also got a pair of Sennheiser HD650's which haven't been used for ages - they're just sat in their box upstairs. Not used them since I sold my Slee Solo phones amp a few years ago.
southall-1998
13-02-2013, 21:53
The Grados aren't the most neutral things going but they're a lot of fun. They're like Royd speakers in many ways - definitely a certain colour to them, but they get more right, as far as music is concerned, than stuff which costs many times their price.
I've also got a pair of Sennheiser HD650's which haven't been used for ages - they're just sat in their box upstairs. Not used them since I sold my Slee Solo phones amp a few years ago.
IMO, I think the SR80s are a bit of a bargain, but I'm only talking about the early SR80 not the new ''i'' version. To be honest I never heard the newer version.
I own 2 SR80s and they are staying!
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/DSC01599_2_zpse96ea95a.jpg
julesd68
14-02-2013, 23:46
Amazing photo Richard - you've managed to get selective wide-angle distortion on it :D
Amazing photo Richard - you've managed to get selective wide-angle distortion on it :D
Was using Mrs Gromit's camera - has this amazing ability to twist certain things out of proportion but leave other stuff well alone. :D
A couple more of my humble rig...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7569_zps6f19b49a.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7587_zps86b6ba8d.jpg
My immaculate little Super Tablettes (the other one looks the same). For the first time in 20 years I've started thinking of moving them on - they work fine in my room, but they're crying out for a fuller/warmer sounding amp; they sounded sublime on my old Sugden A21 years ago. Wonderful little speakers at lower volumes (although they can rock if they have to), the Sony only really comes on song at higher levels ergo there's a slight mismatch...
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/Gromit011/IMG_7577_zps792c58ea.jpg
Lovely photography, Richard.
If that's the Sony I think it is (model numbers just pass me by they changed so often), then some ATC20's would be ideal (NOT the 10's which bottom out on rock at anything like a good level). The 20SL version was clearer at low volumes than the 1992 vintage ones I had, but aren't big, should fit your stands, they're not too expensive on the used market and you might just like the sound...
hoopsontoast
05-04-2013, 11:42
If that's the Sony I think it is (model numbers just pass me by they changed so often), then some ATC20's would be ideal (NOT the 10's which bottom out on rock at anything like a good level). The 20SL version was clearer at low volumes than the 1992 vintage ones I had, but aren't big, should fit your stands, they're not too expensive on the used market and you might just like the sound...
I really liked the SCM10's, preferred them to the SCM7 (newer model). Although I had both and had the 770ES twice, their ownership never crossed, though I thought the 770ES would have been a great match for both.
Never heard the SCM20SL, but liked the SCM19, bar the tweeter which I thought was better in the SCM10 with the older Vifa unit with the cast faceplate.
When new, the 10 and 20 sounded very similar, but the 20 went MUCH louder :) The Vifa tweeter when new in these was a tame thing, although the same unit in the 20ASL Pro's I had for years was vicious and one-note-spitty, the treble in Harbeth P3ESR's so much more delicate and nautral on brushed cymbalwork I thought. I wonder if they stopped applying ferro-fluid or something?
hoopsontoast
05-04-2013, 15:27
When new, the 10 and 20 sounded very similar, but the 20 went MUCH louder :) The Vifa tweeter when new in these was a tame thing, although the same unit in the 20ASL Pro's I had for years was vicious and one-note-spitty, the treble in Harbeth P3ESR's so much more delicate and nautral on brushed cymbalwork I thought. I wonder if they stopped applying ferro-fluid or something?
Dunno, I found it a better balance than the Vifa unit used in the newer models, which had a tendancy to sound a little 'splashy'
I wouldn't disagree, but as I said, the Vifas in my original 20's and 100A's wasn't as fierce as the pair on the 20ASL Pro's. ATC changed to a different tweeter shortly after and I was told the whole "ATC sonic flavour" of the actives at any rate was also changed from the times I used to visit them regularly on the early to mid 90's - was it really all that long ago.
Been mucking about with the new lens I've just bought so thought a piccy or 2 of the rig would be worth doing seeing as the light is good today...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8255/8691765803_39a6702142_b.jpg
Canetoad
29-04-2013, 14:31
Nice Richard! That PL-71 is looking rather nice! :eyebrows:
I'd better give mine a good going over. What cartridge are you using in it?
I have a Nagaoka MP-150 you can borrow and try if you like. PM me. :)
I like what my Sony N55 ES power amp is doing in my system at the moment too. Another happy Sony user!
Hi Bernie - I'm using a Denon DL110 in the PL71, works very well. I've always likened it to the 'Ford Focus' of cartridges. That's to say it's not earth-shattering and by far from being the best thing out there, it does nothing particularly wrong and just gets on with the job. Neil (Yomanze of this parish) very kindly sent me his Reson Reca/1042 to try a while ago - it's a lovely cartridge and yes it's slightly better than the DL110 but it's not that much of a difference.
I've left the Denon in place as I don't want to put too many hours on someone else's stylus. Was really good to try though.
Yup - these old Sony amps are really rather good. Keep it quiet though or the prices will sky-rocket. :eyebrows:
dantheman91
29-04-2013, 15:36
Yup - these old Sony amps are really rather good. Keep it quiet though or the prices will sky-rocket. :eyebrows:[/QUOTE]
What is you view on the TA F540E
What is you view on the TA F540E
Sorry, I'm really not familiar with that model at all as I can only speak from those I've heard (ie the 670ES & 770ES). All I'll say is that the 770ES, which I own now, is probably up there one of the best amps I've owned. Not the best as it's hard to put absolutes on these things - it is very, very good though.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8257/8693361962_23586c03d5_b.jpg
Canetoad
29-04-2013, 16:47
Hi Bernie - I'm using a Denon DL110 in the PL71, works very well. I've always likened it to the 'Ford Focus' of cartridges. That's to say it's not earth-shattering and by far from being the best thing out there, it does nothing particularly wrong and just gets on with the job. Neil (Yomanze of this parish) very kindly sent me his Reson Reca/1042 to try a while ago - it's a lovely cartridge and yes it's slightly better than the DL110 but it's not that much of a difference.
I've left the Denon in place as I don't want to put too many hours on someone else's stylus. Was really good to try though.
Yup - these old Sony amps are really rather good. Keep it quiet though or the prices will sky-rocket. :eyebrows:
I have a DL160 I want to try on mine some time too. It's currently on my SL1210.
I have to ask: what does the picture on the wall represent?
hoopsontoast
30-04-2013, 06:41
I have to ask: what does the picture on the wall represent?
Its a location is it not? longitude/latitude?
Glad you seem sorted Richard, the 770ES is a cracker :)
Its a location is it not? longitude/latitude?
If it is, it might be worth reworking that photo and fuzzing out the picture. Don't want any unwelcome visitors helping themselves to what you have :(
If it is, it might be worth reworking that photo and fuzzing out the picture. Don't want any unwelcome visitors helping themselves to what you have :(
No need to worry Martin, it's a long way from where we live. The picture was a present from my sister a couple of years ago, the reference point marks the top of Great Gable which is probably one of my favourite places in the world. :)
Ah, ok then. As you were :)
Nice idea, though.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8115/8695465863_15ded0b330_b.jpg
Reca/1042 in place...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5449/8775545539_d38f3d2ff3_b.jpg
Nice... Does it 'boogie'? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Reca/1042 in place...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5449/8775545539_d38f3d2ff3_b.jpg
Nice, please, feel free to use it more! It's a brand new stylus, so could do with some decent hours on it.
Lovely standard of photography by the way, which camera do you use?
Richard always takes the most wonderful photos of his gear.
Looking great, Gromit! I bet those little speakers sing on the end of that ES.
Nice... Does it 'boogie'? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Oh yesh. :eyebrows:
Thanks for the kind comments chaps :)
Neil - camera's a Canon EOS 40D with 17-40 F4L lens.
I'd only put about 3-4 hours on the 1042 at which point I put it safely back in the box and used the DL110. However, yesterday I though 'hell, Neil's been such a top bloke lending it to me it would be rude - and unappreciative - not to put some more miles on it'. So I did. And through the Dino it sounds superb - there's a fine match there, that's for sure. The DL110 sounds slightly better through the Sony amp's MM stage, but the Reson/1042 sounds better with the Dino and out of the two combinations is superior, without a doubt.
Another cartridge to have a play with - popped over to Theo's place this morning, and he has very kindly let me borrow his ACE to try...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5334/8790884185_e0f000c927_b.jpg
Sounding rather nice, I must admit. :)
Couple more piccies - especially now the Benz will be staying at Gromit Towers. :)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/8806368974_c22d0499b7_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8412/8795784073_44fcd94fb3_b.jpg
Note to self - give the dust a quick flicky before picky. :D
Looking good!
Sounding it too. :)
Pasted from PFM...
I've now loaded the Benz up with 1kOhms on the phonostage and it's livened up even more. It's full of brio, yet still refuses to go 'bright' which is great news (some MC's seem to sting on this setting - my old OC9 was so bright it was funny). It's a really natural, open and rounded performer but doesn't fall into the trap of sounding 'hifi' or dull. Well chuffed. The guys at HFW certainly go their view on this one right.
Couple more piccies - especially now the Benz will be staying at Gromit Towers. :)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3733/8806368974_c22d0499b7_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8412/8795784073_44fcd94fb3_b.jpg
Note to self - give the dust a quick flicky before picky. :D
Richard, I command you at once to submit those 'dusty' pictures to the 'Get yer turntables out for the lads' thread, in AA, as they are flippin' brill! Now run along... ;)
Marco.
Richard, I command you at once to submit those 'dusty' pictures to the 'Get yer turntables out for the lads' thread, in AA, as they are flippin' brill! Now run along... ;)
Marco.
Sorted guv'nor (hopefully sans dust!!). :)
freefallrob
24-05-2013, 14:52
Looks very nice, the Ace looks to have nice square sides for alignment 'ease' to;).
How'd you go on with the Rega Carbon, any further thoughts on it now you had it for a while?
Another one to play with - Zu-bodied 103 with Paratrace stylus/sapphire cantilever...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7446/8804141899_05b38638a1_b.jpg
The world's most un-photogenic cartridge? :D
Sonically? Reminds me of a Decca - full on, dynamic pyrotechnics.
Rob - I don't use the Carbon very much (reckon it's only done 30-40 hours as it is) but it's handy as a back up if needed. Good little cartridge though, not exactly couth but loads of fun and what it does wrong (a mite harsh, congested on heavy material) doesn't really bother me too much. Not at 25 quid at any rate. :)
Another one to play with - Zu-bodied 103 with Paratrace stylus/sapphire cantilever...
Sonically? Reminds me of a Decca - full on, dynamic pyrotechnics.
Yep, that's what I love about it. It's a bit 'uncouth' in comparison to my Cadenza Blue, and not as holographic, but its bloody good fun :)
This is the only decent shot I ever managed:
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s106/TFP_2007/DSCF3131.jpg
Not quite your standard :D
It's a difficult cartridge to photograph, Theo - just an ally 'box'. Mind you, it doesn't half sound good! All the 103 stuff present and correct (ballsy, full-fat tonalities, fun etc etc) but with a nice clean top end which actually manages to properly differentiate between the different cymbals of a drumkit rather than making them slightly samey.
Great fun - in fact I think I may just have found (thanks to you - again!) my next cartridge when the Benz wears out. Works a treat in the PL71's arm. :)
Another TT pick, this time using the DSLR (the close ups were with Mrs Gromit's Sony compact)...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8116/8804777933_295859b923_b.jpg
Ali Tait
24-05-2013, 17:57
Great photos Richard!
Andrew B
24-05-2013, 19:02
I've read every page of your "Odyssey" and you've had some utterly blinding systems. I'd be interested in which systems have really stood out or you. I'm particularly envious of the Exposure and NVA amp combos you've had. It's been a real pleasure to read. I wish I'd kept a similar record to look back on.
I've read every page of your "Odyssey" and you've had some utterly blinding systems. I'd be interested in which systems have really stood out or you. I'm particularly envious of the Exposure and NVA amp combos you've had. It's been a real pleasure to read. I wish I'd kept a similar record to look back on.
Hi Andrew - you're very kind. :)
Well done for reading through it all, surprised you're still awake. :D Seriously, I daren't go back through all of it! Had some good fun though - some real high points, some not so great. All to be learnt from though. :)
Cartridge heaven there, Richard... All you need now is to revisit an SPU! ;)
Marco.
Cartridge heaven there, Richard... All you need now is to revisit an SPU! ;)
Marco.
Well, never say never, that's what I always say. :eyebrows:
You loved the last one, when you had it, I believe.... :)
Marco.
You loved the last one, when you had it, I believe.... :)
Marco.
Certainly did - a really lovely thing. Only reason it went (along with a fair few other bits) was that we were gathering as much funds as possible for the new house. Now we're settled (and the music room is built and piano in place ie the 'big' purchases are done) it's time to start building things up again - but nice and slow this time.
Have to say though, the Benz into the Sony's MC stage (yes really!) has been a most pleasant surprise. The Benz doesn't go shouting its presence from the rooftops - yes it does do dynamics, but strings together musical shapes most satisfyingly. It sounds dull on first listening but like a good 103, everything's there with no artificially impressive edge to spoil the plot.
Well I'll be blowed - I'd written off the Sony amp's MC phonostage as 'just a switch to make an MC cartridge louder' but I was wrong.
Had a friend over on saturday and we spent a good hour or two comparing the (already very good) Dino/+ on all its settings and came to the conclusion that whilst yes, the Dino does have a slightly more cleanliness to its sound, it does strip tonality from the music. It also has this habit (and is something I found years ago when I had my own Dino vs the MC stage in my Exposure Super XV) of chopping musical lines up into vertical moments, rather than maintaining the horizontal strings - think of long-chain molecules vs single atoms floating around in the ether. The Sony is more dynamic, nimble, gutsier, and plays music with blood running through its veins. :)
Could the 770ES be one of my biggest 'finds' in recent years? Entirely possible. Huge thanks to those (Hoops, Cjr, John - the mad Latvian) who put me on to this kit.
hoopsontoast
28-05-2013, 08:37
Richard, the 770ES is an probably an excellent match for the low output MCs like the DL-103, preferred the 670ES Phonostage to the Rotel RQ-970BX and Heed Questar MC.
I think it was John and Tommy (WeeTam) who put me onto the 770ES in the firstplace, cant remember who I bought my first one off!
preferred the 670ES Phonostage to the Rotel RQ-970BX and Heed Questar MC.
Doesn't surprise me Rob - I'm running the Benz ACE SL into the 770's stage and it sounds fabulous on the 400 ohm setting. It just sparkles with life.
Idlewithnodrive
29-05-2013, 15:02
When I swapped to low-output MC carts (funnily enough the DL-103 as well) I sold my Dino+ solely because the cart sounded better through my ..........................????????? - 670ES phono stage, so there is obviously a sweet synergy going on.
A very kind member of PFM has sent me this little beauty to try...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2835/8899533901_1c57980e38_b.jpg
A Mayware T-24 step-up transformer. Very rare it would appear, but from what I'm reading on the www it was a very highly respected SUT in its day. The good news so far is that it is very quiet - no hum, even with the volume cranked up waaaaaay beyond what I would listen. Plenty of gain aswell so it would appear to suit the Benz well.
Got it running into the Sony's MM stage - will report back later when I've had some time to listen to it. :)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/8912606064_8026f2bb4c_b.jpg
That's a lovely pic Richard :)
That's a lovely pic Richard :)
Thanks Dave - amazing how buying a new lens re-awakens an interest in photography. :)
julesd68
02-06-2013, 15:12
Thanks Dave - amazing how buying a new lens re-awakens an interest in photography. :)
What lens / camera combo Richard?
What lens / camera combo Richard?
Canon EOS 40D (my old faithful) with Canon 17-40 F4L lens.
I'm now hooked on L-Series glass, could get expensive. :doh:
julesd68
02-06-2013, 17:01
Very nice indeed!
Great to have a high quality 'walkabout' lens. I'm a Nikon man and used to have the 18-200 VR but was never very happy with the results - since I mainly take portraits I went back to my 50mm 1.8 and it's permanently attached now - unbeatable at pocket money prices ...
Very nice indeed!
Great to have a high quality 'walkabout' lens. I'm a Nikon man and used to have the 18-200 VR but was never very happy with the results - since I mainly take portraits I went back to my 50mm 1.8 and it's permanently attached now - unbeatable at pocket money prices ...
Getting a full-frame 50mm seems to be a really good way of doing things these days. The guys in our local camera shop (LCE in Lincoln) have been really helpful, and always recommend owners of cropped sensor cameras to have a 50mm prime in their bag. And for the price they go for - as you say at pocketmoney prices - what's not to like? Not sure on Nikon prices but it's possible to get a brand new Canon 50mm/1.8 for less than 80 quid and it's a fabulous lens. Seems almost daft not to. :)
I was always a Nikon man before going digital and still weep when I think how much I sold the gear for. :(
julesd68
02-06-2013, 18:23
Yes, I think my Nikon was 80 quid - plastic and Made in China - but who cares when the optics are so good!!
Ah well, just for the hell of it, and because I love My (not so) Little Sony...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7404/8947616725_858248b597_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8411/8947612719_95bdbdc771_b.jpg
Spectral Morn
04-06-2013, 14:20
They need heavier four column stands - your ProAc Super Tablette's - to get the best from them. The Target ones made for them is ideal. I still own a pair my first hifi speakers and I won't part with them fabulous imagery etc.
Regards Neil
They need heavier four column stands - your ProAc Super Tablette's - to get the best from them. The Target ones made for them is ideal. I still own a pair my first hifi speakers and I won't part with them fabulous imagery etc.
Regards Neil
Strangely enough, I tried them many years years ago (a friend has them under his 1SC's) but preferred the 2-pillar. The 4-pillars made them sound more hifi to me and sucked the bounce and life from the speakers. They did supply more bottom end heft though, which I will admit is something the Supertabs need all the help they can get. Saying that, these 2-pillar ones (these were made by Target for the Tablettes too - can't remember the model desig though) still weigh itro 15kg at a guess, being filled with a mixture of Atabites and sand.
Spectral Morn
04-06-2013, 22:28
Strangely enough, I tried them many years years ago (a friend has them under his 1SC's) but preferred the 2-pillar. The 4-pillars made them sound more hifi to me and sucked the bounce and life from the speakers. They did supply more bottom end heft though, which I will admit is something the Supertabs need all the help they can get. Saying that, these 2-pillar ones (these were made by Target for the Tablettes too - can't remember the model desig though) still weigh itro 15kg at a guess, being filled with a mixture of Atabites and sand.
Fair enough different set up system etc. I never got to try the two column version, might have been better I will never know now.
Regards Neil
Fair enough different set up system etc. I never got to try the two column version, might have been better I will never know now.
Regards Neil
Shame you're not at all local - would be interesting to do the comparison now. Don't think I'll ever sell my wee ProAcs either, especially as we've had them in the family since 1993 (I bought them off a friend when they were less than 2 years old). My dad had them for 5 years or so, but I nabbed them back a few months ago. Wonderful little things, they don't suffer fools in terms of what they're fed with, but when all's well they're a joy. Still not owned a speaker before or since which is so good on vocals.
They could do with new tweeters - not because they've been hammered (far from it) but one of them got slightly pushed in some time ago. Think my dad was moving them and his thumb went into it with the grille in place. It popped out no problem but there are the tiniest pair of creases as evidence (you have to get v close to see it). Sonically there is no detriment that I can detect - even down to getting someone to swap the speakers over with each of us taking it turns to listen 'blind'. Cured my paranoia in one swoop, thankfully. The tweeters are readily available, and Falcon Acoustics will even search out a matched pair. :)
Spectral Morn
05-06-2013, 14:29
Shame you're not at all local - would be interesting to do the comparison now. Don't think I'll ever sell my wee ProAcs either, especially as we've had them in the family since 1993 (I bought them off a friend when they were less than 2 years old). My dad had them for 5 years or so, but I nabbed them back a few months ago. Wonderful little things, they don't suffer fools in terms of what they're fed with, but when all's well they're a joy. Still not owned a speaker before or since which is so good on vocals.
They could do with new tweeters - not because they've been hammered (far from it) but one of them got slightly pushed in some time ago. Think my dad was moving them and his thumb went into it with the grille in place. It popped out no problem but there are the tiniest pair of creases as evidence (you have to get v close to see it). Sonically there is no detriment that I can detect - even down to getting someone to swap the speakers over with each of us taking it turns to listen 'blind'. Cured my paranoia in one swoop, thankfully. The tweeters are readily available, and Falcon Acoustics will even search out a matched pair. :)
Yes it would have been interesting.
I agree with everything you say about them and I won't part with mine either. The foam surrounding the tweeters has started to go on mine but everything else is sound.
I recall when the replacement version came out Proac had killed what was excellent with the version you and I have. The Mini Tower, Super Tower and EBT are also very good, from in and around the same time period.
Regards Neil
Yes it would have been interesting.
I agree with everything you say about them and I won't part with mine either. The foam surrounding the tweeters has started to go on mine but everything else is sound.
I recall when the replacement version came out Proac had killed what was excellent with the version you and I have. The Mini Tower, Super Tower and EBT are also very good, from in and around the same time period.
Regards Neil
Agreed Neil - it seemed ProAc, in their 'wisdom' got obsessive about making the Tablettes larger and larger, and ended up with a speaker that was totally alien to the original and completely lost the plot. Then they went back to the original dimensions with the Ref 8. :D
Yup, the tweeter foam on one of mine has gone (I ended up removing it all when it became an eyesore) and the other is just about hanging in there. ProAc will sell you a new foam for something like £40 - each. A brand new Scanspeak D2010 tweeter only costs around 50 quid.
Not heard the Towers, unfortunately.
Having fun with my new ultra-wide...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5345/9191974901_7037a36691_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/9191974901/)
I think you and Mika are in competition!
I think you and Mika are in competition!
:D
I think we both just enjoy taking photographs. :)
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5346/9200198972_1d3ee3625d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/9200198972/)
southall-1998
03-07-2013, 17:05
Gromit,
I still own the lovely Grado SR80 headphones. Do you know some headphone amps that works well with the SR80? I listen to all types of music :)
Gromit,
I still own the lovely Grado SR80 headphones. Do you know some headphone amps that works well with the SR80? I listen to all types of music :)
I just use mine off my Sony amp - they sound fine, although living where we are now I don't use headphones much at all now. Maybe best to start a separate thread for suggestions?
I think we both just enjoy taking photographs. :)
Yes the defect doesn't have to be big when it's between the ears :D
Well, I applaud you both for your wonderful photography. Please keep posting more!
Richard, I heard your Techie at the Scalford-before-last show. How do you find the Pioneer in comparison?
Richard, I heard your Techie at the Scalford-before-last show. How do you find the Pioneer in comparison?
Hard to say, Martin. It was a fair while ago. My Tecchy wasn't overly modded (TS HE psu/Vantage bearing & feet/KAB damper/Sumiko shell/Achromat) but I do seem to remember the Pioneer was on a similar level. The deck that beat both of them though was the Sony PS-6750. Doing a very brief comparison on the day, everyone else in the room came to the same conclusion, in fact it was a major and unexpected eye-opener. Should add the Sony wasn't even set up optimally - the cartridge was just balanced out, no re-alignment at all. Shame it had an earthing problem which I fixed on getting the deck home.
If a good 6750 came up now I'd sell the PL71 in a heartbeat.
Hard to say, Martin. It was a fair while ago. My Tecchy wasn't overly modded (TS HE psu/Vantage bearing & feet/KAB damper/Sumiko shell/Achromat) but I do seem to remember the Pioneer was on a similar level. The deck that beat both of them though was the Sony PS-6750. Doing a very brief comparison on the day, everyone else in the room came to the same conclusion, in fact it was a major and unexpected eye-opener. Should add the Sony wasn't even set up optimally - the cartridge was just balanced out, no re-alignment at all. Shame it had an earthing problem which I fixed on getting the deck home.
If a good 6750 came up now I'd sell the PL71 in a heartbeat.
Yup, the best Sony D/Ds are strangely not mentioned much. Experience tells me, that when Sony (figuratively speaking), sat back and said: 'right, we're going make this as good as we possibly can', the results were invariably stunning. The only problem with these types of T/Ts is availablity of spare parts, should anything major go pop. That's really the main reason (SQ aside) why the Techy is so popular: they can always be fixed, if necessary!
A bit more Jap Crap...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2830/9259997027_76c998d0a9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/9259997027/)
Photo taken from 4m away. :)
RobbieGong
11-07-2013, 22:11
Hard to say, Martin. It was a fair while ago. My Tecchy wasn't overly modded (TS HE psu/Vantage bearing & feet/KAB damper/Sumiko shell/Achromat) but I do seem to remember the Pioneer was on a similar level. The deck that beat both of them though was the Sony PS-6750. Doing a very brief comparison on the day, everyone else in the room came to the same conclusion, in fact it was a major and unexpected eye-opener. Should add the Sony wasn't even set up optimally - the cartridge was just balanced out, no re-alignment at all. Shame it had an earthing problem which I fixed on getting the deck home.
If a good 6750 came up now I'd sell the PL71 in a heartbeat.
I know what you mean - I've always felt the same about it's bigger brother the 8750 and if one of those came up in top order I'd be madly tempted :)
The Black Adder
16-07-2013, 08:24
Photo taken from 4m away. :)
Whoooaah!... What kind of lens is that.. Superb quality.
Whoooaah!... What kind of lens is that.. Superb quality.
Hi Joe - it's with a Tamron SP 70-300. Just bought it fairly recently, and I'm chuffed to bits with it. Spent a couple of hours testing it prior to purchase and once stopped down it was easily a match for the equivalent Canon L-Series glass. For a third of the price. :)
Great quality for a zoom lens of that range, Richard.
The Black Adder
16-07-2013, 18:36
must resist... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Macro-1-2-Tamron-70-300mm-LD-Di-fits-Sony-Alpha-DIGITAL-/350779821645#vi-content
lol...
must resist... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Macro-1-2-Tamron-70-300mm-LD-Di-fits-Sony-Alpha-DIGITAL-/350779821645#vi-content
lol...
That's a slightly different lens Joe - mine's the SP version with the VC (vibration control) mechanism. For £1 under 300 quid though it's something of a bargain. Comes with a 5 yr warranty too. :)
The Black Adder
16-07-2013, 20:52
Not sure that version is available for a Sony body though...
Spectral Morn
16-07-2013, 21:42
Agreed Neil - it seemed ProAc, in their 'wisdom' got obsessive about making the Tablettes larger and larger, and ended up with a speaker that was totally alien to the original and completely lost the plot. Then they went back to the original dimensions with the Ref 8. :D
Yup, the tweeter foam on one of mine has gone (I ended up removing it all when it became an eyesore) and the other is just about hanging in there. ProAc will sell you a new foam for something like £40 - each. A brand new Scanspeak D2010 tweeter only costs around 50 quid.
Not heard the Towers, unfortunately.
How much for a wee bit of foam to surround the tweeter :eek: - rip off there. £80 seems crazy, we are not talking about a new drive unit just the defraction cancelling foam.
Regards Neil
Not sure that version is available for a Sony body though...
I think you're right Joe - which is a real shame. No doubt something to do with Sony having in-body stabilisation I should think.
The Black Adder
17-07-2013, 09:20
I think you're right Joe - which is a real shame. No doubt something to do with Sony having in-body stabilisation I should think.
Yeah, your right there... Although I never use it.. lol but there you go.
Joe - here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003YUBTJ4/ref=pe_186441_38028091_email_1p_2_ti) you go. :)
The Black Adder
18-07-2013, 20:06
Cheers Rich... Mmm, the next bit to buy me thinks..
love the T/T Grommit ....never seen one of these before.....the rack is lovely too
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5508/9476494603_ef9bf76d5d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/9476494603/)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7394/9476495817_19839976de_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/9476495817/)
southall-1998
10-08-2013, 13:09
Looking good, Gromit!!!
Couple of new'uns...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5447/9839172785_bd86724288_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/9839172785/)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3776/9971630813_32bd3af343_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/9971630813/)
jandl100
28-09-2013, 06:10
I've been curious about the Sony ES obsession of some folks here, including Young Gromit, of course, for quite a while. :mental: or :thumbsup:, that's the question.
Well, having recently made the decision to somewhat down-cost my vinyl rig I tried the phonostage in my Sony ESD1000 digital pre-amp. Wowzer, not bad at all. :D
I have now got rid of my Minimax phonostage and I don't miss it one bit! -- no, it's not quite as good, but the ES 'stage sounds "nicer" and is very listenable indeed !! :eyebrows:
So a big :thumbsup: for the Sony ES phonostages at any rate, and a thanks to Young Gromit for tempting me to try it.
Yes, these old Japanese hunks'o'junk really are dark horses. The Germans have 'got' the ES thing for many years now, but so many of us Brits still see them as 'not worthy'.
The phonostage in my 770ES is at least as good - in fact slightly better - than a Dino & + psu. Ok the Dino's not the greatest phonostage in the world, far from it, but it's still a highly respected bit of kit which puts the Sony's built-in one into perspective.
The amp itself is fantastic, having no particular sound of its own, plenty of power too. For what I paid for it (£250 inc delivery) there's nothing I can think of - that I've heard - to better it for the money. :)
jandl100
29-09-2013, 08:04
It's the "listenability" of the ES phonostage in my Sony pre that has me taken aback. If I listen critically, I can pick out its failings compared to
'proper' phonostages like my old Dino/NC and Minimax. But the ES says "so what, just enjoy the music .... "
I think this is actually more like an issue between the listeners ears. Also those better phonostages allow you to do that, if you only allow it yourself. The idea of downgrading just gives our mind proper reason for it. After my time with Naim equipment I also found the same thing with PRaT.. :)
New camera, cheapo (very!) lens...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3819/10001397715_4a30b124b3_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10001397715/)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7289/10001508283_0bbc580ca4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10001508283/)
The Black Adder
29-09-2013, 16:41
Always wanted to try a PL-71... It looks fab too! - Top matey!
I just love good black and white photography, so moody!
A few more - they're not overly crisp as my 50mm/1.8's a tad soft at wide apertures. Really ought to nab my tripod back so I can re-do these with the lens stopped down to get them properly crisp...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3738/10004182966_9109df1d63_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10004182966/)
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2878/10004233193_e46d9e0450_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10004233193/)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/10004091304_ce2673b0f8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10004091304/)
Nice! The lowest one would be really interesting as a sharper and a tad longer exposed B&W.. :)
Nice! The lowest one would be really interesting as a sharper and a tad longer exposed B&W.. :)
Thanks. :)
Yes, it desperately needs a tripod this one - trying to hand-hold at 1/6 second isn't the best idea. The Canon 50/1.8 doesn't get properly crisp at the edges until f8 so I'll have another go when I've got my tripod back (it's being borrowed at the moment).
Looking good Richy-boy, damn fine indeed! Now, the key question is: do you think you can keep that lot together, and enjoy it, for more than 10 minutes, before selling it all and getting something else, or perhaps you're trying to rival Jezza in the box-swapping stakes? :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Rolling stone catches no moss :rolleyes:
Rolling stone catches no moss :rolleyes:
Absolutely!! :)
Truth be told, my rig's stayed as-is for 5 months now...result! :D
A couple more pics, now I've got my tripod back...
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5533/10017091096_bb70c508a5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10017091096/)
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5494/10017023614_be4526971d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10017023614/)
The tripod makes all the difference.
I'm going to create a couple of similar moody shots of my system using my tripod, methinks.
Indeed. I should do the same as all pics I have taken are without the tripod, so plenty of improvement expected there. However I think have not seen my Arca Swiss quick release plate for a while. Perhaps it got lost when we moved, so.. :scratch:
My lovely little ProAcs (well, one of them) these have been in the family for over 20 years now, and can never see me selling them...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/10962673746_a7e1b55164_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10962673746/)
Little sods to drive well - they do seem to like a lot of amplifier but are also extremely revealing of poor material. However, when the wind's in the right direction... :)
bigmarty
20-11-2013, 22:32
Great system, lovely photographs and love the use of lighting and depth of field, not easy I know.
Marty :D
Thanks Marty. :)
The ProAc photo isn't as crisp as I would've liked it unfortunately, just hand-held it at 1/4 sec with my Fuji.
A little bit of Mr Sony's finest...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3726/10741736373_69c844ae71_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10741736373/)
I do find the Japanese habit of writing stuff on their gear rather amusing though!
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_9OguHW3E6gM/TJ-BgybKl8I/AAAAAAAAAGQ/V4bmI10ioNU/s640/DSCN1703.JPG
istari_knight
21-11-2013, 11:48
At least with Sony it usually stands for something... Here's a translation for you:
Spontaneous Twin Drive = Separate voltage rails for front / back end of the amplifier.
Gibraltar chassis = Inert base made of polyester, calcium and carbon.
Super / Legato linear = Use of high fT output transistors to extend frequency / switching response & emitter resistors are 0.1ohm for minimum output distortion.
Linear Phase Circuit = Proprietary gain/buffer stage originally designed for preamps with a SACD input allowing high frequency response up to 100kHz with minimal distortion.
Torus = Toroidal transformer with a true torus core for increased efficiency.
QS = Quality standard.
ES = Elevated standard.
ESD = Elevated standard digital.
ESR = Extremely high standard ?
I'm sure there's more I cant remember :D
Thanks James - I always wondered what the 'Super Legless Lineage' thingy was. :)
All I do know is that it's blummin' heavy - and sounds pretty darn spiffing. :)
Perhaps some of the British amp manufacturers should start something along the lines of...
'RRN' - really rather nice.
'JG' - jolly good.
Or for Naim...
OMPSATYBH - one more power supply and then you'll be happy. :D
istari_knight
21-11-2013, 12:07
No worries :thumbsup:
The spec sheet of a truly British amp would simply read 'adequate' :)
No worries :thumbsup:
The spec sheet of a truly British amp would simply read 'adequate' :)
Ha ha, like this website description of my British power amp:
"PA2M SE (twin mono in one case).
It has a very fine mid range and top end with the deepest, most powerful and tight bass end I know how to produce – short of the Anniversary models. This is two entirely separate mono power amps in one case."
...and that's it. No indication of THD, damping factor etc.
It's finally arrived, and just warming through...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3706/10991715856_a65d5e2dab_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10991715856/)
It's finally arrived, and just warming through...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3706/10991715856_a65d5e2dab_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10991715856/)
:popcorn:
:popcorn:
Let me let the coffee brew first Andy! Jeez some people!!! :D
;)
istari_knight
22-11-2013, 10:48
I hope it sounds as good as it looks ! :)
Ok here goes...
I'm very surprised (in a good way) at how it drives the little ProAcs - they're only 85db/w or so (perhaps even less) but the KEL has no trouble getting decent volume out of them. The amp sounds sweet (it is an EL84 after all) and very clear, and place your ear against the speaker when the volume's off and there is virtual silence. A good sign.
Downsides - easily rectifiable - are the stepped attenuator which has been fitted means the amp has waaaay too much gain. Only 3 or 4 clicks and it's more than loud enough. With more sensitive speakers it would be a problem. Will look into getting someone to fit an original volume control or sort what's already there. Still, it's perfectly useable as it is and no way a deal-breaker. The input selector's a bit noisy - needs a gentle fiddle and all's well and the thing then works 100% fine.
The mains transformer's slightly noisy - in its defence our mains isn't good here (my Sony amp is silent at my folks' house but buzzes quietly away here) but putting Foculpods under the KEL and all is quiet. Obviously there's a bit of resonance from the case not helping.
Sound quality is just 'KEL-like' for those familiar with it. Very listenable, sweet and detailed with a surprising amount of pep. Definitely not soft and cuddly!!
So far I'm tempted to keep the amp - not as a main one - but use it as something to put into the system every so often just for fun. Will see how things progress once the volume control is sorted.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2820/10994705475_8f94ca6df9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/10994705475/)
Ali Tait
22-11-2013, 15:21
Ok here goes...
I'm very surprised (in a good way) at how it drives the little ProAcs - they're only 85db/w or so (perhaps even less) but the KEL has no trouble getting decent volume out of them. The amp sounds sweet (it is an EL84 after all) and very clear, and place your ear against the speaker when the volume's off and there is virtual silence. A good sign.
Downsides - easily rectifiable - are the stepped attenuator which has been fitted means the amp has waaaay too much gain. Only 3 or 4 clicks and it's more than loud enough. With more sensitive speakers it would be a problem. Will look into getting someone to fit an original volume control or sort what's already there. Still, it's perfectly useable as it is and no way a deal-breaker. The input selector's a bit noisy - needs a gentle fiddle and all's well and the thing then works 100% fine.
The mains transformer's slightly noisy - in its defence our mains isn't good here (my Sony amp is silent at my folks' house but buzzes quietly away here) but putting Foculpods under the KEL and all is quiet. Obviously there's a bit of resonance from the case not helping.
Sound quality is just 'KEL-like' for those familiar with it. Very listenable, sweet and detailed with a surprising amount of pep. Definitely not soft and cuddly!!
So far I'm tempted to keep the amp - not as a main one - but use it as something to put into the system every so often just for fun. Will see how things progress once the volume control is sorted.
The KEL84 is a great little amp and a real giant killer IMHO, I've had a couple through my hands in the past. Get the pot sorted, and have a look to see what coupling caps are fitted, some decent caps here can make a real difference. Then look to the valves, some nice NOS drivers again make a real improvement.
What language is "Strobo"?
What language is "Strobo"?
Must be because they couldn't fit 'scope' on the end. :D
The KEL84 is a great little amp and a real giant killer IMHO, I've had a couple through my hands in the past. Get the pot sorted, and have a look to see what coupling caps are fitted, some decent caps here can make a real difference. Then look to the valves, some nice NOS drivers again make a real improvement.
Indeed - it's a cracking little thing. Full of zest, it's almost solid state in how it motors along - but in a good way.
My first KEL84 (I had it around 2007/8 I think) had been modified a fair bit - the input selector was redundant and the tape source switch was just connected to go between 2 inputs. It had a smattering of BlackGates inside, and used NOS Philips EL84's. I then got hold of some Telefunken ECF80's and it sounded fantastic. Yellow-label Mullards sounded a bit too woolly to me, the T'funkens had much more zip.
I've reported the issue with the pot to the ever-helpful guys on the WD forum who've offered a few suggestions as to what the problem could be. This pot is a 50K where the standard one is 100K. I'm not going to start delving around inside with a soldering iron myself, but will find someone local who could do the job for me - and give the amp a good look-over, to make sure everything's ship-shape.
Listening session this afternoon...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7348/11013881975_c6e8a0c7ae_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11013881975/)
Followed by...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/11014013866_a50aba86d0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11014013866/)
And back again etc etc. :)
Amp sat on separate table as lifting that Sony on and off the rack is doing my back no good at all.
More toobs in gratuitous arty-farty photo...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2871/11090338274_caf265ba50_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11090338274/)
hoopsontoast
28-11-2013, 08:13
Just picked up *another* 770ES, my third......
Looking good though Richard :)
The Black Adder
28-11-2013, 09:12
Cooking there, Richard. Any more pics of those glowing babies?
istari_knight
28-11-2013, 11:51
Looking good :cool:
... You'll be after a P10 next ;)
... You'll be after a P10 next ;)
Hmmm...there's one for sale on t'Wam. :)
Been interesing this morning comparing the KEL84 with the A30 and whilst yes the A30 has a fair bit more oomph (as you'd expect) and does drive the ProAcs better, that little WAD is just such a wonderful little music-making device. It also has more attack and 'zip' than the Puresound too. The Puresound sounds bigger with better bass control, more expansive too. The A30 really needs a pair of Sylvania Bad Boys (6SN7GT's) as I found these made a fundamental difference to my last one - ok the amp was modded (by Guy - the main man himself) and that woke it up, but the BB's let the brakes off completely.
Only real reason I sold the old A30 was because it didn't get on with my Royds - drove them fine, but they needed an amp with extremely tight bass control, especially in my room. Had the same issue with the IC Claymore in our new place - the Sony tidied things up beautifully.
The A30's quite fruity so suits the ProAcs (which are dry upon dry) quite well, even though they're not the last word in efficiency.
freefallrob
28-11-2013, 12:35
Hi Richard, looks like you have been having a nice time:).
Re bass control, I know where you are coming from, my favorite loudspeakers of choice JBL L1's need an iron grip, they are so dynamic, but any looseness on the amp and they just get upset and wobbly.
I use a Sony TA-FB940R QS, it's terrific on them, high damping factor.
Rob.
Now with the lights on...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3672/11090328686_0effbdae2c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/93875151@N07/11090328686/)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.