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Thread: Are Hifi Reviews Flawed?

  1. #81
    Join Date: Sep 2009

    Location: London, UK

    Posts: 309

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    First and foremost, the magazines should fill their pages with what their target audience want to read, thus ensuring good sales, then worry about the rest later!
    Most of those on here seem to have run their own businesses so it should make sense that even if you start with the best intentions and a good business model, as soon as you become successful the whispering parasites start on you and tell you that by making a few changes you can double turnover, triple profits and all that crap. Suddenly, as the founder you find you are "retiring" and that the baby you watched grow is turning into a monster.

    Most, if not all, publications start as someones good idea but then over time are taken over by one or other of the large publishers and that's it.

    Doing otherwise is like opening up a new restaurant and spending all your budget on telling people where you are and what you've got (advertising) and forgetting about the most important thing of all - the food itself!!
    It's not the magazines advertising themselves, like you suggest above. It's selling space on your restaurant menus and wall for adverts. People might still come eat the food, but passing trade (ala McDonalds) is more likely than regular diners.

    And that's the point I think. Once the circulation is up, and hence the brand name of your mag is well known then new readers will just buy a copy when they want to buy hifi and so the ads are as important as the editorial. There are now so many consumers that this single purchase model work on an ongoing basis. No loyalty, no subscriptions.

  2. #82
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,478
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Peter,

    I think the observations you make a very valid and likely explain much of the current situation with magazines. However, just to pick up on a few points:

    Most of those on here seem to have run their own businesses so it should make sense that even if you start with the best intentions and a good business model, as soon as you become successful the whispering parasites start on you and tell you that by making a few changes you can double turnover, triple profits and all that crap. Suddenly, as the founder you find you are "retiring" and that the baby you watched grow is turning into a monster.
    This is very true, but I guess it depends how focussed you are on retaining control of your baby and the values you believe in. I run my own business, so can relate to what you mention, but some things in life are far more important than 'the bottom line', or selling 'one's soul to the devil', as it were.

    In the past I've often thought of expanding my business to increase profit, become more well-known or whatever, but doing so would have meant that I wouldn't have been able to offer my customers the attention to detail or personal touch I do now, and so the niche aspect of the products and services I offer would have been diluted.

    This is precisely what's happened with some magazines by 'selling out' to commercialism and losing focus on the very goals that they set out to achieve at their inception. Or perhaps through just running out of ideas?

    Most, if not all, publications start as someones good idea but then over time are taken over by one or other of the large publishers and that's it.
    Indeed, and Hi-Fi+ are a valid case in point. I remember how much of a breath of fresh air the first few editions were; in fact they even included restaurant reviews! They were also chock-full of genuinely useful and insightful articles. Now they are but a pale imitation of their former selves...

    It's not the magazines advertising themselves, like you suggest above. It's selling space on your restaurant menus and wall for adverts. People might still come eat the food, but passing trade (ala McDonalds) is more likely than regular diners.
    I agree, but not if you do it right and build up an excellent reputation for first-class food and service, where people will travel for miles to frequent your establishment. This is precisely what I would strive for if I opened a restaurant; indeed my wife and I have thought about doing exactly that when we retire.

    And that's the point I think. Once the circulation is up, and hence the brand name of your mag is well known then new readers will just buy a copy when they want to buy hifi and so the ads are as important as the editorial. There are now so many consumers that this single purchase model work on an ongoing basis. No loyalty, no subscriptions.
    Yep, that's what happens when you (perhaps unintentionally or indirectly) abandon the intended target customer as a result of losing focus on your goals and 'going for gold', and end up in return catering for a much less discerning audience!

    It goes back to what's considered as most important - absolute profitability (the 'bottom line') or a genuine, extremely focussed, desire to produce a product (magazine) long-term that's different and of value to a dedicated audience. My view is that the latter, done well, could be both profitable and also of great value to the hard-core enthusiasts populating this and many other specialist audio forums.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  3. #83
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Yorks

    Posts: 16,643
    I'm Nobody.

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    I'm sat here puzzled as to why you think an hi-fi rag is for the general publics good! It's a buisness nothing else.

  4. #84
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,478
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Because not everyone has the knowledge and experience with hi-fi we do, Andre.

    If there's a 'market' for forums such as this (and clearly there is, as AoS and other forums like it are a big success), then there's a market for a magazine offering similarly open-minded and unbiased (from a financial incentive point of view) advice and information to like-minded enthusiasts.

    *That* is the type of hi-fi magazine I'd like to see on the shelves: one driven solely by the passion of enthusiasts to share knowledge and information for the benefit of everyone with no hidden agendas, commercial or otherwise. A magazine for 'the punters', as it were, which prioritises their needs and interests before anything else.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  5. #85
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,540
    I'm David.

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    Paper mags are always at least two months out of date though.

    I'm not into studio gear, but Sound-On-Sound seems to strike a good balance I think...
    I can't go on and I can't go back, I don't feel so matter of fact,
    I tried and tried to make good sense, What's the good to try it all again?

  6. #86
    MartinT Guest

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    It might be a business but magazines like Hi-Fi Critic exist only because of the enthusiam of the staff concerned. It certainly can't be for the huge profits!

    More commercially, a magazine like Stereophile still shows the passion of its writers. It's just that advertising as a revenue stream always muddies the waters and the publishers aren't the ones with the passion.

  7. #87
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,478
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    More commercially, a magazine like Stereophile still shows the passion of its writers. It's just that advertising as a revenue stream always muddies the waters and the publishers aren't the ones with the passion.
    Exactly Martin. I think Stereophile is a good magazine, but it's too 'high-end' orientated and American-centric for me, and doesn't (I believe) cater much for vintage and classic hi-fi and/or the modification of it, which is something I'd love to see a magazine tackle seriously (even more than HFW currently does); one which reflects what genuine enthusiasts are doing with their systems, not those who simply chuck money at it, or buy the 'latest and greatest' fad to appear as trendy.

    Just imagine a magazine full of hints and tips on how to modify the likes of SL-1210s, DACs, vintage T/Ts, speakers and all sorts of stuff, and really good and useful D.I.Y articles on a number of subjects, as well as keeping up to date with the latest in computer audio and current hi-fi designs - the very things people on this forum and others discuss on a daily basis!

    Undoubtedly, such a magazine (one that's mainly driven from sales of copies, not advertising revenue) would be a labour of love and would never make a fortune, but I believe that, done well with sufficient devotion to the cause, it would (eventually once established) still make a respectable profit and provide a decent income for those who ran it.

    I respect the principles of Hi-fi Critic but for me it's a bit too Linn/Naim/solid-state orientated, which is entirely understandable given the audio proclivities of those in charge.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  8. #88
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Yorks

    Posts: 16,643
    I'm Nobody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Because not everyone has the knowledge and experience with hi-fi we do, Andre.

    If there's a 'market' for forums such as this (and clearly there is, as AoS and other forums like it are a big success), then there's a market for a magazine offering similarly open-minded and unbiased (from a financial incentive point of view) advice and information to like-minded enthusiasts.

    *That* is the type of hi-fi magazine I'd like to see on the shelves: one driven solely by the passion of enthusiasts to share knowledge and information for the benefit of everyone with no hidden agendas, commercial or otherwise. A magazine for 'the punters', as it were, which prioritises their needs and interests before anything else.

    Marco.
    Well if people think they are gonna get anywhere relying on what mags tell em to do they are very much wrong, you find your own way around in this hobby..
    The best magazines were the 70's where you got a straight forward honest review of an item, no fancy wire,no & page adverts, was solely for the hi-fi hobbiest.
    Last edited by Rare Bird; 30-12-2009 at 13:50.

  9. #89
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,478
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    So are you saying that no-one here on this forum pays attention to the advice offered by our more experienced contributors?

    I'd certainly have to strongly disagree with that. Therefore, if there's an audience ready to consider knowledgeable advice given on forums, there is equally an audience who would acknowledge such advice and/or reviews of equipment given in a magazine run by genuine enthusiasts and founded on non-commercial principles.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL, in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  10. #90
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Yorks

    Posts: 16,643
    I'm Nobody.

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    No not saying that i'm saying don't rely on info from magazine, you'll get no where, you can't get audio nirvana from buying off shelf or mag reviews. Hi-fi needs forums like this as long as it's not full of Naim/Linn donks.

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