Are Hifi Reviews Flawed?

[hifi_dave]

Over the years I have been approached by a few manufacturers and distributors about the possibility of starting a magazine written by manufacturers, designers and distributors.

The idea being that the products could be described, tested, discussed and the deign points explained in great detail. Throw in some good photography and you have an interesting and informative magazine written by experienced professionals. Of course, not all written would be 100% reliable and/or factual but that is the case with the established magazines and at least you would know that this is the case.

[Marco]

Hi Dimitri,

Your idea is good, Paul.

But I consider that both objectivists and subjectivists would be against : the first because they don't believe in differences, the latter because they don't like following rational ("objective") methods.

That's certainly not true in my case, as a subjectivist. Have you read the section about this in 'Our Ethos'?

I would gladly, with wide-open arms, follow (and wholeheartedly embrace) "rational" objective methods when evaluating 'all things audio' *IF* I believed that they provided unquestionable and definitive proof for every effect I can genuinely hear with my ears - and most importantly, that we were currently able to measure everything in audio/hi-fi that needs to be measured. I don't believe that this is the case.

After all, it would make life a heck of a lot easier if a simple readout on a piece of measurement apparatus told us everything we needed to know about how hi-fi equipment (and cables) treat music signals, and how the brain then processes the information...

As long as that remains not to be the case, and that objective methodology/analysis, and scientific 'proof' derived from such, fails to explain phenomena, the effects of which my ears can genuinely hear, then for me, 'rational objective methods' will remain flawed, as they only tell part of the story. That's the only reason why I have a problem following such a methodology, not because I'm some blinkered dyed-in-the-wool subjectivist with his head in the sand.

I trust that this now makes my position on the matter (and also that of AoS, in this instance) crystal clear

Marco.

[Themis]

Have you read the section about this in 'Our Ethos'?

I was talking in general, Marco. I guess you're conscious that AoS is an exception, not the rule.

As far as the methodology is concerned, for me, both subjectivist and objectivist methodologies are flawed. That's why I only trust selected people, not methodologies.

[Marco]

In other words, 'trusted ears', either belonging to a real person or a 'virtual' one on a forum

I do the exact same thing myself when I need a second opinion on anything hi-fi related. It's the only true way of genuinely progressing from one's current viewpoint on a particular matter.

I guess you're conscious that AoS is an exception, not the rule.

Indeed - hence why we started the forum!

Marco.

[Themis]

In other words, 'trusted ears', either belonging to a real person or a 'virtual' one on a forum

I do the exact same thing myself when I need a second opinion on anything hi-fi related. It's the only true way of genuinely progressing from one's current viewpoint on a particular matter.

Indeed - hence why we started the forum!

Marco.

Exactly ! Progressing by specific groups it's the best method, I agree !

[Marco]

Such a methodology is by no means easy or straightforward to implement, though.

If you're not very careful, and continually test and evaluate your findings at different intervals and in different environments, all you end up doing is sharing each other's biases and convincing one another than an outcome is 'correct', when in reality it's not quite as 'correct' as you first thought it was - been there, done that, and learnt from it!

Ultimately though, if carried out properly by 'rational' people with the requisite hearing acuity and experience of judging required evaluation parameters, I believe that this method is far more 'accurate' (in the 'human' sense that really matters) than currently any 'definitive proof' is from a piece of measurement apparatus.

Quite simply, until someone invents a 'magic box' which can measure how we, as humans, enjoy the sound of reproduced music through a hi-fi system, then our ears will continue to provide the best answers.

This is an interesting but rather complicated subject!

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Is it not true that if an hifi reviewer says something good it's usually not & vise versa? I've found this

[Marco]

Andre, I think that we either believe that all hi-fi reviewers are heavily biased (for whatever reason) and thus talk bollocks, or we can relate to certain observations they make in some way. I occasionally occupy the latter position; but more often than not find myself in the former.

For example, since Alan Sircom (new editor of Hi-fi+) has began contributing on forums (he's a member here, for example) I've found myself agreeing with awful lot of what he writes, and he portrays it so eloquently, too.

But, as Dimitri and I have said, the 'trusted ears' of people you know are the most influential, whenever you feel like a second opinion is needed

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Andre, I think that we either believe that all hi-fi reviewers are heavily biased (for whatever reason) and thus talk bollocks, or we can relate to certain observations they make in some way. I'm occasionally in the latter position; but more often than not find myself in the former.

For example, since Alan Sircom (new editor of Hi-fi+) has began contributing on forums (he's a member here) I've found myself agreeing with awful lot of what he writes, and he portrays it so eloquently, too.

But, as Dimitri and I have said, the 'trusted ears' of people you know are the most influential, whenever you feel like a second opinion is needed

Marco.

Well i've not picked up an hi-fi magazine for years because of the constant misleading nonesence, i think the last was when well know hi-fi mag had been out probably around a year, i found myself getting intrested in certain things, go listern to only be dissapointed, the dealers would say virtually the same as the magazine even as if they actually read the article & reiterated it back to me during demo.i've never bought a rag not bought from a dealer since.

[Marco]

Yep, I know exactly what you mean.

However, if being honest, wouldn't you say that you are (or have been) influenced by, for example, Russ Andrews and the whole RATA/Kimber cable system building methodology?

Evidence from what you write appears to suggest this therefore perhaps you're more influenced by the views of certain people than you think?

Marco.