What does Flat earth mean to you?

[alfie2902]

Yes, Joe, but the mistake you're making is connecting the term 'flat-earth' to a group of people or a particular brand of equipment (this is merely the historical and simplistic view), instead of recognising it as a state of mind as Steve and I have explained it

That's the essence of what this is about: abandoning hard-bitten beliefs and redefining the meaning of 'flat-earth'. All we ask is that people consider this.

Marco.

So lets forget what the term "Flat Earth" has meant, in its different guises, over the years in Hi-Fi history !?.

Lets now abandon hard-bitten beliefs and redefine the meaning of 'flat-earth' so it means exactly what Steve & Marco want it to mean!?

Lets take the bits "we" like & now call it the definitive meaning of "Flat Earth"

Is that what your saying?

[Steve Toy]

Also, on the subject of Tony L, it was he who defined the Flat Earth as being a state of mind not choice of brand.

It is possible and indeed quite common to be a Linn/Naim fanboy who does not embrace flat earth principles. They may merely be unquestioning sheep who have bypassed the mental process and just jumped on the bandwaggon.

[Steve Toy]

So lets forget what the term "Flat Earth" has meant, in its different guises, over the years in Hi-Fi history !?.

Lets now abandon hard-bitten beliefs and redefine the meaning of 'flat-earth' so it means exactly what Steve & Marco want it to mean!?

Lets take the bits "we" like & now call it the definitive meaning of "Flat Earth"

Is that what your saying?

No.

[alfie2902]

No.

Thats pretty much how this thread reads so far!

The term "Flat Earth" has been used in different ways to mean different things over the years. There is no definitive meaning thats why there's so much confusion to what the term means! IMO

[Alex_UK]

I have to say, I am struggling a bit too, when the dictionary definition is clearly not what you want to portray - a flat-earther is "One who stubbornly adheres to outmoded or discredited ideas:" (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flat-earth) - surely, that is the total opposite of what you are trying to say it means? Or have I missed something?

[Kris]

There is no definitive meaning

No, there is a very clear definitive meaning. If you don't believe me, then look it up and see for yourself.

That's the essence of what this is about: abandoning hard-bitten beliefs and redefining the meaning of 'flat-earth'. All we ask is that people consider this.

I've considered it and rejected it. You can't start redefining a term that is so well defined that the term itself is a definition of the term. And to redefine it to mean the exact opposite of what it traditionally does mean is just plain crazy. IMO.

Yes, Joe, but the mistake you're making is connecting the term 'flat-earth' to a group of people or a particular brand of equipment (this is merely the historical and simplistic view), instead of recognising it as a state of mind as Steve and I have explained it

Connecting the term 'flat-earth' to a group of people is not a mistake, it's reality. People who believe the earth is flat are called 'flat-earthers'.

If you want to discuss state of minds, then flat-earthers have a closed mind. They believe the earth is flat despite any evidence to the contrary.

By describing AOS as a flat-earth forum the vast majority of people out there will take that to mean a narrow minded and closed to new ideas forum.

If you don't believe me, just go into the street and ask 10 people at random. You'll soon see I'm right.

The reality is that AOS and its members are anything but narrow-minded.

[Marco]

Hi Alfie,

Did you read this bit from 'Our Ethos'? If not please read it carefully:

As Steve has said before (who like me is also someone from a 'Naim/flat-earth background'), the type of valve gear him and I use now exhibits all the renowned traits of a good Naim system (pace, rhythm and timing, speed, and 'bass drive'), but with all the things that, for us, Naim gear does less well (tonal colour/richness, texture, image height and depth, etc), so we've now got the best of both worlds... It's essentially valves for discerning 'Naimees'!

This is probably a rather controversial statement, but a good Naim/'flat-earth' system actually has quite a lot in common with the type of valve equipment we use now and champion on AoS, in terms of how effectively the musical message (and the emotive element therein) is conveyed, which is something I think good Naim/'flat-earth' systems do very well. They can be a little rough around the edges (one has to prioritise certain aspects of presentation and thus make compromises when voicing equipment - all manufacturers do), but a good Naim system, in my experience, can be very musically addictive.

Steve and I weren't going to just abandon, all of a sudden, the principles we've adopted and believed in for years! Quite simply, the valve equipment we use now gave us more of what we always loved about the musical presentation of a top-flight, (properly set-up) Naim/'flat-earth' system, so in that sense, we haven't abandoned our 'FE' principles, far from it - and probably never will.... These principles are at the core of what AoS stands for in a hi-fi sense.

Hopefully that should clarify things a little. It's the correlation between what 'flat-earth' traditionally meant in a hi-fi sense (as explained above), and the availability of all that (and more) from a good valve-based set-up that Steve and I are getting at. Therefore 'flat-earth' is a simply a state of mind, not an endorsement of any particular manufacturer's equipment or an association with a close-minded or blinkered attitude

Marco.

[Steve Toy]

No Kris. The term was used disparagingly in the beginning and was then adopted.

Its use was thus ironic. The dictionary definition outside of the hi-fi context is therefore meaningless.

[Marco]

No, there is a very clear definitive meaning. If you don't believe me, then look it up and see for yourself.



I've considered it and rejected it. You can't start redefining a term that is so well defined that the term itself is a definition of the term. And to redefine it to mean the exact opposite of what it traditionally does mean is just plain crazy. IMO.



Connecting the term 'flat-earth' to a group of people is not a mistake, it's reality. People who believe the earth is flat are called 'flat-earthers'.

If you want to discuss state of minds, then flat-earthers have a closed mind. They believe the earth is flat despite any evidence to the contrary.

By describing AOS as a flat-earth forum the vast majority of people out there will take that to mean a narrow minded and closed to new ideas forum.

If you don't believe me, just go into the street and ask 10 people at random. You'll soon see I'm right.

The reality is that AOS and its members are anything but narrow-minded.

Hi Kris,

All that is fine if that's how you feel, but like I said, we're just encouraging people to think laterally. Look that word up, too!

The results of the poll, so far, are encouraging

Marco.

[Steve Toy]

By describing AOS as a flat-earth forum the vast majority of people out there will take that to mean a narrow minded and closed to new ideas forum.

If you don't believe me, just go into the street and ask 10 people at random. You'll soon see I'm right.

Are those ten random people likely to be into hi-fi?