Macca's Lash Up 2: Lash Harder

[User211]

OK - my vibe again, so one of you at least in another thread thinks I'm deaf and deluded if I think a passive is better than a good line buffer. I'll take that, but the whole point about ARC preamps was that their (mostly) designed-in warmth of tone (a deliberate colouration/processing so not really 'high fidelity' in the true sense) kind of neutralised any stridency on the Krell power amps used with them. THIS generation of Krell was a departure, sounding less hard and tonally flat than the previous range, which was hot running and pretty horrible PA style of presentation if memory serves - maybe it was worn out or over-stressed caps, but they really weren't very nice despite the cachet. The variable 'plateau-bias' design made these amps usable in the real world and to me sounded rather better too. I personally don't think this amp NEEDS to be hobbled with a coloured sounding preamp from the US.

My experience with the earlier KSA50 (not the 50S Martin has) is that it was dire WITHOUT a coloured sounding ARC LS26 from the US!!!

And I do think the LS26 was coloured in a way the KSA50 totally needed. That particular ARC threw huge 3D soundstage and some very nice tonality in the mids. I don't think all ARC preamps are coloured to that extent, BTW.

However, a KSA300 with an Krell pre and DAC I heard later sounded very good, really, on both Apogees and some Usher Dancer variant. I was surprised.

Jerry tried the LS26 on his MBLs and hated it. I don't think it'd work well in that situ at all. Its huge soundstage would just lack any focus with a pair of omnis which disperse sound all over the place by default.

No matter, Martin has enough experience to find what he wants sooner or later. Almost. I say almost because none of us ever really do find exactly what we want, in truth.

[jandl100]

Jerry tried the LS26 on his MBLs and hated it. I don't think it'd work well in that situ at all. Its huge soundstage would just lack any focus with a pair of omnis which disperse sound all over the place by default.

Oh god, yes.

Poor George who had driven many miles to bring the beast to my place for a dem and hopefully a sale.
He put a brave face on it to start with, although looking a bit distraught.
Even he gave up after a while. I was maintaining a tactful silence, but "It's not working, is it" he said.
And we moved on to my much cheaper pre (actually the pre section of a Morgan Audio integrated) and that sound very much better.

Lawdy - what a smoothed over, blowsy mush that LS26 made of the music. I've never heard anything like it before or since.
And coloured! - like Joseph's technicolour coat!
I've not tried any other AR preamps, but word is that the LS26 is fairly extreme in that regard.
Tbh, that killed off any interest I had in Audio Research pre-amps.

[Scooby]

Which NVA cable are you using now, Martin?

[Macca]

It is a special that was made up when I was trying to get an NVA AP30 power amp to gell with the vintage Akai speakers. I'd forgotten all about it. IIRC it is supposed to match speakers that demand voltage rather than current, although that could be complete bollocks.

I don't think the improvement is due to any property of the NVA cable in particular, but more due to getting rid of the Chord Odyssey from the circuit. As a few people have now pointed out, the Chord, for whatever reasons, just doesn't work right with this amp/speaker combo.

The difference is not subtle. whilst the sound was not hard or shouty before, there was some edginess that made it difficult to relax and enjoy. Now I can hear more realism and the front to back layering in the soundstage is obvious, whereas before it was not there at all. Even a civilian would notice the improvement.

What surprises me most is that my hunch to sort the problem by changing the speaker cable was actually right.

[DSJR]

My experience with the earlier KSA50 (not the 50S Martin has) is that it was dire WITHOUT a coloured sounding ARC LS26 from the US!!!

And I do think the LS26 was coloured in a way the KSA50 totally needed. That particular ARC threw huge 3D soundstage and some very nice tonality in the mids. I don't think all ARC preamps are coloured to that extent, BTW.

However, a KSA300 with an Krell pre and DAC I heard later sounded very good, really, on both Apogees and some Usher Dancer variant. I was surprised.

Jerry tried the LS26 on his MBLs and hated it. I don't think it'd work well in that situ at all. Its huge soundstage would just lack any focus with a pair of omnis which disperse sound all over the place by default.

No matter, Martin has enough experience to find what he wants sooner or later. Almost. I say almost because none of us ever really do find exactly what we want, in truth.

Can I carry on without appearing to challenge? (I know it's difficult for me to do this and apologies if I do).

Wide and huge soundstages can be an artefact added in with some products in my experience. I think many exalted moving coil cartridges do this, adding a sort of 'halo' around the music which our ears love to hear but which isn't really there in the rather dryer sounding masters in my experience. Maybe added compression in the vinyl cutting stage does this, I don't know... The previous KSA50 is a very different amp to the one Martin has from memory, the only remote similarities being the power, approximate case size, the weight (hope he kept the box I bought for it as it was bloody expensive...) and the model number. The innards and sound are very different in the two generations I think, the old one sounding a bit grey and cloudy in comparison and not as taut in the bass. Later FPB's sounded almost Quad like when new I thought, with a velvet quality but ABSOLUTELY HUGE control and power in the bass. I have huge fondness for an FPB300 we had for dem for a short while, that amp was so good, all but ignoring the speakers connected to it and just opening out (or closing up) depending on what went in...

The one thing my recent few years exposure to a slightly different viewpoint has confirmed for me, is to keep the signal path as simple as reasonably possible and if you have to add electronics to the signal path, I still recommend making sure that no added colour or character is added in. It's my experience and opinion that preamps were the scourge of the earth, certainly in the 80's when so many of them audibly altered what went in to them.

[Macca]

I agree with DSJR re the active pre-amps, and to a lesser extent MC carts, although all my testing is done with digital to avoid introducing another half-dozen variables. If you want to hear the actual recording, as opposed to a coloured interpretation of it (even if it does sound good), then passives rule.

(And no I haven't binned the box, I never bin any packaging. Not wise for a box-swapper to do that).

In fact all the box-swapping I have done since joining this forum , and it is a lot, has taught me that if it ain't working don't automatically assume it is the new addition that is causing the problem. A box-swapper learns to think out of the box

[Macca]

My old pal and oppo DQ writes 'Macca's meandering on his hifi should be filed in the box marked "bollocks" There is far two much vague bullshit language going on for my liking ,its leading edge bollocks with fulsome bullshit decay'

Which is fair comment. It is not easy to describe sound in words without it coming over as bullshit. And I rarely feel inclined to write extensively, which doesn't help. To clarify - 'all leading edge' meaning for example a rim shot is just too much, too in your face as to be unpleasant.

Okay so stand in front of a drumkit, get the drummer to hit rim shots and see how long you take to get fed up with it. Not long. So that is more realistic isn't it? Well not if the recording wasn't mixed to make the drumkit sound like that. And it probably wasn't. It gets unpleasant after a while. The NVA cable noticeably softens this effect, but at the same time makes it sound much more like a real rim shot, or to be exact a processed recording of one. You can now hear the decay of the shot as well as the hit, and the space around it.

This applies across the whole sound of course, not just rimshots, but they are where it is most obvious so I choose that example.

If that's still no clearer I'll give up.

[walpurgis]

I didn't see such a reference to your system on here Martin. Who is the dickhead you mention?

[Joe]

I didn't see such a reference to your system on here Martin. Who is the dickhead you mention?

He posts on a forum that NO-ONE IS ALLOWED TO MENTION. (Except Marco).

[Marco]

Only on a Tuesday, once in every leap year.

Marco.