Denon 103 Pro and his step up

[Marco]

Nice one, Gordan. I'll continue the discussion tomorrow - right now I'm off to bed for an early night

Laters,
Marco.

[anubisgrau]

marco, your tomorrow is a bit long

anyway - impedance matching resistors removed and now 103 feeds haufe T7883 for the best result so far in my room. the preamp is a tube rectified (separated supplies for heating and voltage), 2-step (ECC82 & ECC83), phase correct, passive DIY RIAA. EAR 834p is collecting dust on the shelf....

[Barry]

To sort out exactly which version of the 103 we are talking about, the following would appear to be helpful:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/DENON/...L/denonDL.html
and
http://www.vinyl-lebt.de/SME/DL103/Thumbnails.html

To summarise:

DL-103 (1964) Broadcast-only model designed for NHK, the Japanese broadcasting authority.

DL-103 (1970) First consumer version Spherical stylus. Compliance 5cu. Coil resistance 40Ω.

DL-103S (1974) Higher compliance (8 cu) than 103, elliptical stylus. Coil resistance 40Ω.

DL-103D (1977) Higher compliance (12 cu). Elliptical stylus. Frequency response to 65kHz.

DL-103T (date ?) DL103 packaged with step up transformer.

DL-103/TII (1978) 15th Anniversary commemorative version with improved tracking.

(DL-103U (1981) Not a cartridge but a dedicated headshell)

DL-103 GOLD (1982) 20th Anniversary model, gold finish DL-103M (1983) Body re-style.

DL-103LC (1985) 75th Anniversary Commemorative edition LC-OFC coils.

DL-103LCII (1986) LC-OFC copper coils. Coil resistance 13Ω.

DL-103SL (1989) Change of materials and styling, limited edition DL-103GL (1990) High purity gold wire, limited production of 2,000.

DL-103C1 (1991) LC-OFC DL-103FL (1993) Fine-line stylus.

DL-103R (1994) Stylus shape,compliance, tracking force, frequency response and mass as per DL-103 but change to high purity copper wire of purity 99.9999% (6N) for the coil, output voltage of 0.25mV, and impedance of 14 Ω.

DL-103 PRO (date ?) Similar in appearance to the 103R Elliptical stylus Compliance 6cu Coil resistance 38Ω.

DL-103SA (date ?) Blue coloured body with rounded edges. Spherical stylus. Compliance 5cu. 6N purity copper coils. Coil resistance 14Ω. Recommended load impedance 100Ω minimum.

DL-103M (date ?) Silver finish to sides of the cartridge body Elliptical stylus Compliance 13cu Tracking force 1.4 +/- 0.2g mass 5.6g Coil resistance 40Ω



Gordan, your posts 115 and 122 contradict one another. Exactly which version of the 103 are you using?

An unloaded T-7883 transformer (that is loaded only by the nominal 47KΩ impedance of the disc input of your preamp) will present a load impedance of 494.5Ω to the cartridge. This will be fine for any version of the 103. The recommended 100Ω load is a minimum value.

Regards

[anubisgrau]

Gordon, your posts 155 and 122 contradict one another. Exactly which version of the 103 are you using?

An unloaded T-7883 transformer (that is loaded only by the nominal 47KΩ impedance of the disc input of your preamp) will present a load impedance of 494.5Ω to the cartridge. This will be fine for any version of the 103. The recommended 100Ω load is a minimum value.

Regards

sorry my mistake - i have a plain 103 (40 ohm coil resistance).

yes i was aware that unloaded haufe transformer present around 500 ohm to a cart and that's why i wanted to experiment with a resistor that would nominally decrease the load, i tried both with 40ohm and 100ohm load and both worked less succesful than unloaded. could be it's just a tuning of the whole system, the differences were quite obvious - unloaded more open, better hf resolution, better stereo.

[Marco]

marco, your tomorrow is a bit long

anyway - impedance matching resistors removed and now 103 feeds haufe T7883 for the best result so far in my room. the preamp is a tube rectified (separated supplies for heating and voltage), 2-step (ECC82 & ECC83), phase correct, passive DIY RIAA. EAR 834p is collecting dust on the shelf....

My apologies, Gordan. I got caught up with a few things!

All I can say is that I get superb results with the A23, whether using my bog standard 103, my 103Pro or my 103SA, despite their different coil resistances. It's honestly not something that's ever concerned me.

The problem with attempting to ascertain what difference the 40Ω coil resistance of 103 makes, compared to the 14Ω of 103SA, when using the A23SUT, is that the cartridges sound quite different due to other issues (internal wiring and cartridge body material) that it's impossible to isolate the effects of each different parameter when changing one cartridge over for the other...

That's why so far I've never bothered thinking about it. I just fit whichever cartridge I want to the Jelco, balance it up, and enjoy the superb sounds which issue forth (A23 in place, regardless)!

Marco.

[anubisgrau]

this evening i've assembled my new deck - stabi S/stogi S w benz micro MC gold and i can add this combo sounds stunning into unloaded haufe T7883 (the imp of MC gold is 20 ohm)!

it actually completely demolished my another deck with 103 (stabi 2/old stogi) in such a brutal manner that left with a conclusion that stogi arm is by far suboptimal for 103.

btw very surprised with BM MC gold. if there's a bargain, this is it

[kcc123]

To sort out exactly which version of the 103 we are talking about, the following would appear to be helpful:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/DENON/...L/denonDL.html
and
http://www.vinyl-lebt.de/SME/DL103/Thumbnails.html

To summarise:

DL-103 (1964) Broadcast-only model designed for NHK, the Japanese broadcasting authority.

DL-103 (1970) First consumer version Spherical stylus. Compliance 5cu. Coil resistance 40Ω.

DL-103S (1974) Higher compliance (8 cu) than 103, elliptical stylus. Coil resistance 40Ω.

DL-103D (1977) Higher compliance (12 cu). Elliptical stylus. Frequency response to 65kHz.

DL-103T (date ?) DL103 packaged with step up transformer.

DL-103/TII (1978) 15th Anniversary commemorative version with improved tracking.

(DL-103U (1981) Not a cartridge but a dedicated headshell)

DL-103 GOLD (1982) 20th Anniversary model, gold finish DL-103M (1983) Body re-style.

DL-103LC (1985) 75th Anniversary Commemorative edition LC-OFC coils.

DL-103LCII (1986) LC-OFC copper coils. Coil resistance 13Ω.

DL-103SL (1989) Change of materials and styling, limited edition DL-103GL (1990) High purity gold wire, limited production of 2,000.

DL-103C1 (1991) LC-OFC DL-103FL (1993) Fine-line stylus.

DL-103R (1994) Stylus shape,compliance, tracking force, frequency response and mass as per DL-103 but change to high purity copper wire of purity 99.9999% (6N) for the coil, output voltage of 0.25mV, and impedance of 14 Ω.

DL-103 PRO (date ?) Similar in appearance to the 103R Elliptical stylus Compliance 6cu Coil resistance 38Ω.

DL-103SA (date ?) Blue coloured body with rounded edges. Spherical stylus. Compliance 5cu. 6N purity copper coils. Coil resistance 14Ω. Recommended load impedance 100Ω minimum.

DL-103M (date ?) Silver finish to sides of the cartridge body Elliptical stylus Compliance 13cu Tracking force 1.4 +/- 0.2g mass 5.6g Coil resistance 40Ω



Gordan, your posts 115 and 122 contradict one another. Exactly which version of the 103 are you using?

An unloaded T-7883 transformer (that is loaded only by the nominal 47KΩ impedance of the disc input of your preamp) will present a load impedance of 494.5Ω to the cartridge. This will be fine for any version of the 103. The recommended 100Ω load is a minimum value.

Regards

The production date for the 103M cartridges was 1983, they had a boron cantilever and special elliptical stylus. For 103 SA they started in 2007.

[Barry]

Thanks King. I may write a piece on the Denon 103 series of cartridges for the Library, and to do a proper job I need to know that sort of information.

Any idea of the production date for the 103Pro ?

Regards

[kcc123]

Hi Barry,
The production date for the 103 Pro was 1994, the same as the 103R. There was another one called 103 EN in 2006.

Best regards!

[mart10]

Hi,
I am reading this post all away, but nobody did answer the question of witch Haufe trannie is used in the A23 ???

Did anyone open the A23 and take a look for those trannies ??

Regards, Martien