Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

[Marco]

Am I the only member of admin who suggests that Richard is perhaps a bit b&t? Is what I say completely untrue?

Sorry, Steve, what's "b&t"? I know what G&T is but not b&t

Once I know what it is I'll let you know if I think he is!

Marco.

[pure sound]

You really are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that would work or be satisfactory to the majority of potential customers. How would it actually operate? Say I'm interested in comparing a pair of big Spendors with some big Focals or ATC's. I call each manufacturer and they tell me the name of an individual who has a pair of the speakers,(how did they choose them?!!!) an individual who won't mind me taking my electronics along to his house, hooking them up and listening for 2 to 3 hours while I decide whether the speakers are for me?

Its preposterous Richard & you know it.

It's one thing to be selling compact boxes of (relatively lightweight) electronics via ebay on a sale or return basis, its another altogether to try do it with large speakers or expensive turntables. A dealer network is a far better arrangement. That's why they came into being in the first place.

I accept that many dealers need to shape up. Some will go bust in this deepening recession but there are others that will remain successful. They are generally those who give good service, and who don't simply rely on shifting boxes for their 40 point margin. Often they make their own products too be it cables, tables, electronics, or even loudspeakers. Generally they have other strings to their bow.

These kind of shops will continue to survive, particularly if people appreciate them for the very useful amenity they can offer.

[WikiBoy]

You really are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that would work or be satisfactory to the majority of potential customers. How would it actually operate? Say I'm interested in comparing a pair of big Spendors with some big Focals or ATC's. I call each manufacturer and they tell me the name of an individual who has a pair of the speakers,(how did they choose them?!!!) an individual who won't mind me taking my electronics along to his house, hooking them up and listening for 2 to 3 hours while I decide whether the speakers are for me?

Its preposterous Richard & you know it.

It's one thing to be selling compact boxes of (relatively lightweight) electronics via ebay on a sale or return basis, its another altogether to try do it with large speakers or expensive turntables. A dealer network is a far better arrangement. That's why they came into being in the first place.

I accept that many dealers need to shape up. Some will go bust in this deepening recession but there are others that will remain successful. They are generally those who give good service, and who don't simply rely on shifting boxes for their 40 point margin. Often they make their own products too be it cables, tables, electronics, or even loudspeakers. Generally they have other strings to their bow.

These kind of shops will continue to survive, particularly if people appreciate them for the very useful amenity they can offer.

I don't know it, there are no easy answers, even with retail this is a problem as it is very rare to find one retailer with all you want to hear. So which is best, one imperfect system that costs you twice as much to another imperfect system.

As everyone keeps saying shop dems are largely a waste of time, same with shows. So please tell me what the difference is between a manufacturers rep coming around and wiring up and leaving for a couple of days and a retailer doing it. Even accounting for a reps commission it is about 30 to 40%.

Reps could be part time semi amateur enthusiasts who represent the products they use and love in their local area, what for, well how about discount on product - that way no tax. Or as a employee on commission basis only. I am not happy about this as it just creates more on-cost and more trough slurpers, but it will be far more cost effective than a retailer and his 100% mark-up.

This is for future discussion but there are many ways that will tie in community with dems and product. I was working with concepts in this back in 1991 and in my mind long before that as I have posted recently. Search under my name a few days ago or go to www.nene-valley-audio.com and look at NVA Challenge in archive. So this is no new thing for me I have been thinking about it for over 20 years and now we have the opportunity to do something concrete.

So Guy or Murray or what ever you call yourself now there is a future that *will* be different to the current status quo, I will not decide it, the customer will. I am just the finger pointing, not the moon.

[WikiBoy]

hi richard,
sorry took so long to post these picks.
if you click on the the links below you will see a pick of one board of one of my creations, it is a power module from the soul amplifier range, [2003] which was a hybrid amplifier, and although there is about 140 components on this board most of it is control circuitry, ie, bespoke linear regulator circuits,for the signal devices, and also a pair of single ended class A Amplifiers that run the heater circuit of the valve.
in a stereo 15 watt soul amplifier there are two modules like this, [one for each channel] also there are four other boards that acompany these, with all the related raw DC elements on.
as i said, i dont usualy do conventional circuitry!
anthony...

So what is supposed to astound me?

For a start solder resist act as a capacitor, and leaving all the unused track and fill in unremoved creates static and field storage areas. I wouldn't do it that way.

[WikiBoy]

Richard,



Sorry, I don't see any "insults" from Steve

What do you deem as "insults"?



It's not a matter of censorship, Richard. You have a tendency to go too far sometimes, and that's not your version of too far, it's ours. Ultimately we're in charge and you have to respect that when we make a decision you abide by it.



It's not a threat, Richard; it's just the way it is. You can't expect to get away with doing anything you like on a public forum where you're not in charge.

Now, please don't abuse the privilege we've given you to 'rant'. I've asked you nicely, and I won't be doing it again, so let's put the retailer thing to bed now

I'm sure there's plenty more subjects you can rant about, so please respect our wishes and change the record.

Marco.

*You* asked *me* to give examples, so I have have. So now you make excuses for them. Fair enough, if you don't want an answer don't ask the question.

I was told quite clearly that I could rant about what I wanted as long as I wasn't rude (apart from to Ashley ), so just because you are getting some stick from the slurpers you want to change the rules.

You can make your own decisions without my input you know.

[Marco]

Richard,

We're not changing the rules. Threads by their very nature evolve - yes we've given you permission to 'rant', but as we don't know exactly what you're going to write it's impossible to know what may require moderating. You can't just write absolutely whatever you feel like writing; there has to be some kind of control and mutual respect.

You can finish your discussion with Guy, but after that I will have to ask that you change to an alternative subject of discussion. If you don't respect our request then your posts will be edited with whatever material we don't wish to host removed and an explanation attached for all to see as to why certain text has been deleted.

I'm being very fair with you so please appreciate this and we can all look forward to reading some new controversial and interesting material from you

Thanks in advance.

Marco.

[pure sound]

Still cloud cuckoo land I'm afraid. 'Everyone' doesn't keep saying shop dems are a waste of time. Who is everyone? Where did you pick up that idea? From your ebay customers or on the various fora?

"Reps could be part time semi amateur enthusiasts who represent the products they use and love in their local area, what for, well how about discount on product - that way no tax. Or as a employee on commission basis only. I am not happy about this as it just creates more on-cost and more trough slurpers"

If you are going to rant about all of this, at least come up with some workable & sensible suggestions. So far it's just hot air & nonsense.

I remember your NVA challenge. Besides the one for the magazine, how many did you really do? Honestly. It didn't look a very cost effective solution to me not for you as the supplier anyway. Was it really a runaway success? Looked more like a publicity stunt to me.

Good audio equipment is not generally bought in the same way as cosmetics (Avon) or indeed knickers & sex toys (Anne Summers). Should it be? I'd have hoped the decisions were not taken so lightly.


If you do want something to really worry about, consider deals like this one.
http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/pro...s/kama-bay-amp

I just bought one. £48 delivered. Sounds pretty good. For some people it would be all they need. I'm sure more powerful versions will be along soon too.

[WikiBoy]

I think you'll find, Richard, that when I consider there's been enough written on the subject that'll be the end of it. It only takes 2 secs to close a thread

Let's hear something new now, please.

Marco.

This part of the thread was supposed to be about Chinese valve amplifiers. Look at how and by whom it was changed back to retailers!

[WikiBoy]

Still cloud cuckoo land I'm afraid. 'Everyone' doesn't keep saying shop dems are a waste of time. Who is everyone? Where did you pick up that idea? From your ebay customers or on the various fora?

"Reps could be part time semi amateur enthusiasts who represent the products they use and love in their local area, what for, well how about discount on product - that way no tax. Or as a employee on commission basis only. I am not happy about this as it just creates more on-cost and more trough slurpers"

If you are going to rant about all of this, at least come up with some workable & sensible suggestions. So far it's just hot air & nonsense.

I remember your NVA challenge. Besides the one for the magazine, how many did you really do? Honestly. It didn't look a very cost effective solution to me not for you as the supplier anyway. Was it really a runaway success? Looked more like a publicity stunt to me.

Good audio equipment is not generally bought in the same way as cosmetics (Avon) or indeed knickers & sex toys (Anne Summers). Should it be? I'd have hoped the decisions were not taken so lightly.


If you do want something to really worry about, consider deals like this one.
http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/pro...s/kama-bay-amp

I just bought one. £48 delivered. Sounds pretty good. For some people it would be all they need. I'm sure more powerful versions will be along soon too.

It was an experiment, we did a few and sold some goodies but the retailers were unwilling to get off their arses and contribute - it is a big country - I went and did one in Yeovil as no one else could for example. Of course it didn't work otherwise I would still be doing them. It was an idea, I like ideas and lateral thinking.

There is much possibility, what are you going to do when your dealers die, go on ebay, or advertise direct through the mags (if they haven't died), what is your plan B. You seem to forget your private mails to me a few months ago on this subject, "watching with interest".

[Steve Toy]

It was relevant to why and how I bought the Pure sound.