NOS valves in a Croft preamp. A 'wow' moment!

[OD1]

Oliver,

please feel free to update this thread with your opinion about the valves you will install in your Croft preamp. Which valves will you be replacing? Standard JJ ECC83S?

Cheers,
Panos

I will be replacing new issue Genelex Gold Lion ECC83's.
In my system the JJ's seem to have higher gain (phono stage only) than all the valves I have swapped in (Mullard / TJ Full Music / & Genelex), could this be due to Glenn using these valves to voice the pre ?

[pankon]

Oliver,

IMHO, higher gain does not necessarily mean quality. Croft gear usually have quite high gain, so that even when you use valves with lower gain than the stock ones, you still end up with quite sufficient gain.

Based on my experience, there is quite a lot of potential in Croft amps that remains hidden because of the use of new issue valves instead of NOS. If you can find good NOS (say Tesla E83CC or other, depending on the type), it will be money well spent; every penny of it.

Cheers,
P.

I will be replacing new issue Genelex Gold Lion ECC83's.
In my system the JJ's seem to have higher gain (phono stage only) than all the valves I have swapped in (Mullard / TJ Full Music / & Genelex), could this be due to Glenn using these valves to voice the pre ?

[OD1]

Hi Pankon,
What i meant to say was "the JJ's sound more dynamic / punchy than the other valves", did you find that vs the Tesla's ?

[pankon]

Oliver,

As a matter of fact, the NOS Tesla E83CC are much clearer, detailed and composed than the JJ's. The dynamic / punchy sound that you mentioned may be due to less clarity perhaps?

Hi Pankon,
What i meant to say was "the JJ's sound more dynamic / punchy than the other valves", did you find that vs the Tesla's ?

[Jimbo]

I agree with you on this Panos the NOS Tesla valves are cleaner and clearer and more detailed than JJ,s by far, in fact they are one of the cleanest see through valves I have ever heard. They are so transparent with a clarity that reveals so much in the recording without much sonic imprint themselves.

I know valves all have their own characteristics, warm, detailed or rich but the Tesla's are probably the least valve like if you know what I mean. There is certainly no etched shrill top end to them as has been suggested of some ECC83 valves. In my system they give a big dynamic sound and really allow my speakers to sing.

[pankon]

I fully agree with you, James. Things are as you describe them. I think that instead of considering a rather costly upgrade to a new preamp (Croft or other), the most sensible and cost-effective approach is to replace the valves in the Croft pre with some NOS. In hi-fi terms they are much, much better that the JJ's that Glenn uses.

By the way, there is one thing to note: Tesla E83CC are frame grid type, whereas Tesla ECC803S are not, exactly the opposite from Telefunken. So, if one would like to go for the top-end Teslas, the E83CC are the ones to look for.

I agree with you on this Panos the NOS Tesla valves are cleaner and clearer and more detailed than JJ,s by far, in fact they are one of the cleanest see through valves I have ever heard. They are so transparent with a clarity that reveals so much in the recording without much sonic imprint themselves.

I know valves all have their own characteristics, warm, detailed or rich but the Tesla's are probably the least valve like if you know what I mean. There is certainly no etched shrill top end to them as has been suggested of some ECC83 valves. In my system they give a big dynamic sound and really allow my speakers to sing.

[rdpx]

There are three valves in my croft integrated...
Would it be worth just swapping the one that is not the phono stage?

[Jimbo]

There are three valves in my croft integrated...
Would it be worth just swapping the one that is not the phono stage?

Phono stage valves make the biggest difference.

[pankon]

Yes, indeed! If you listen to records, of course -))

Phono stage valves make the biggest difference.

[AlexM]

I have three NOS Tesla E83CC in the phono stage of my CJ ET3, and they are very good indeed. I think we need to introduce a little perspective - these valves will perform very well but we are talking about a reasonably subtle improvement if you comparing NOS to NOS (or new-new). We usually think they are very much better compared new to old, tired valves plus a big slice of expectation bias. Nice dimensionalality, and clean, neutral tone, with good detail are characteristics, but I have some Ei 12AX7 which are almost as good sounding and long lived too (if they survive initial burn-in/early life failure!)