Richard's hi-fi ranting 'Room 101'

[Nick]

It cost less and takes less time now-a-days to get to Western Europe than going up and down the UK. But *you* see it as going half way around the world

I reiterate - *anyone* who spends £10k on a pair of speakers is a patsy as far as I am concerned, you paid less, good for you. £10k was *your* figure not mine.

As to attitude I say what I think, you don't like it which is fine by me. I have not been hot under the collar in any of these posts with you, but you seem to have a propensity for hotness and anger, I would say watch the blood pressure if you react this strongly to simple conversation, but I am sure you would get angry at this as well.

OK let me deal with each point one at a time.

Granted it takes less money and time to travel to Europe these days. I do *know* this as I've travelled extensively on business. This wasn't my original point. I was merely pointing out that one wouldn't expect to have to travel outside the country when distributorship was available internally.

You make the blanket *patsy* statement with no reference. Your inference is some kind of mental deficiency is required for that kind of expenditure. Of course that's your *opinion* and you're entitled to it. I feel I got value for my money in the purchase I made and that's really what counts in this case. In my original post I didn't request comment on whether my intended expenditure was sensible you put forward that, rather blanket, opinion without request.

Finally you don't know me at all so let's dispense with the online psycho-analysis. I don't have a propensity for hotness or anger. What I do object to is the way you turned my anecdotal evidence of a less than satisfactory, *my view*, transaction with a section of the hi-fi industry into a personal dissection. I haven't got angry by what you've said just mildly irritated. By the way my blood pressure is fine, thanks for your concern. Although this little snipe is really not relevant to the discussion.

I appreciate you haven't been hot under the collar but your style is confrontational to me and, I have noted in other exchanges, to others. Often this kind of directness appears rude in flat type even when not intended.

Saying what you think isn't always as admirable as you seem to think. It's sometimes more conducive to reasonable conversation to hold back an opinion which isn't actually relevant to the discussion in hand.

Cheers

Nick

[anthonyTD]

OK let me deal with each point one at a time.

Granted it takes less money and time to travel to Europe these days. I do *know* this as I've travelled extensively on business. This wasn't my original point. I was merely pointing out that one wouldn't expect to have to travel outside the country when distributorship was available internally.

You make the blanket *patsy* statement with no reference. Your inference is some kind of mental deficiency is required for that kind of expenditure. Of course that's your *opinion* and you're entitled to it. I feel I got value for my money in the purchase I made and that's really what counts in this case. In my original post I didn't request comment on whether my intended expenditure was sensible you put forward that, rather blanket, opinion without request.

Finally you don't know me at all so let's dispense with the online psycho-analysis. I don't have a propensity for hotness or anger. What I do object to is the way you turned my anecdotal evidence of a less than satisfactory, *my view*, transaction with a section of the hi-fi industry into a personal dissection. I haven't got angry by what you've said just mildly irritated. By the way my blood pressure is fine, thanks for your concern. Although this little snipe is really not relevant to the discussion.

I appreciate you haven't been hot under the collar but your style is confrontational to me and, I have noted in other exchanges, to others. Often this kind of directness appears rude in flat type even when not intended.

Saying what you think isn't always as admirable as you seem to think. It's sometimes more conducive to reasonable conversation to hold back an opinion which isn't actually relevant to the discussion in hand.

Cheers

Nick

quite right

[Mr Ed]

VAT in *every* EU country is cheaper than ours - rip off UK again.

Actually, out of the 27 member countries of the EU, the UK has the 4th lowest rate of VAT.

Only Cyprus (15%), Spain (16%) and Luxembourg (15%) are lower than our paltry 17.5%.

http://www.scopulus.co.uk/taxsheets/..._vat_rates.htm

Still, don't let hard facts get in the way of a good rant!

Ed.

[WikiBoy]

Actually, out of the 27 member countries of the EU, the UK has the 4th lowest rate of VAT.

Only Cyprus (15%), Spain (16%) and Luxembourg (15%) are lower than our paltry 17.5%.

http://www.scopulus.co.uk/taxsheets/..._vat_rates.htm

Still, don't let hard facts get in the way of a good rant!

Ed.

Whoops!! well you must be right. The last time I think I looked about 2 to 3 years ago I am sure we were about the most expensive. Things must have changed.

[stupinder]

France 19.7%

[Steve Toy]

A couple of things,

Richard, cut the insults. There is a pattern emerging here that I don't like where some individuals think that, by softening the tone of the insult a little, we admin will think it softens the impact so as not to cause offence when the intent is to do just that. Dodging around some notion of an AUP that doesn't actually exist really isn't going to cut it here - we have an ethos instead of which we expect everyone to embrace the spirit not follow to the letter. Your views, much of which I respect even if I don't agree with, would carry more weight if you could temper the bitter, twisted and angry aspect to your posting.

Nick,

One of the harsh realities of life I guess is that as much as you are free to buy or not to buy, the guy from whom you may wish to purchase is as free to sell or not to sell. In my line of work I often refuse business because it is either uneconomical or just not worth the hassle and I'm not talking about any risk of getting my head kicked in either.

Most large companies have a customer services operation that aims to keep customers happy on their behalf. If you are not happy with the service you receive from any given manufacturer as a prospective customer you can opt to escalate matters to someone more senior on the basic assumption that those above will want your business. If you've spoken to the big boss and he's clearely not interested then too bad. You'll just have to take your money elsewhere.

Making you, the customer feel special is a means to an end not an end in itself.

[Nick]

Nick,

One of the harsh realities of life I guess is that as much as you are free to buy or not to buy, the guy from whom you may wish to purchase is as free to sell or not to sell. In my line of work I often refuse business because it is either uneconomical or just not worth the hassle and I'm not talking about any risk of getting my head kicked in either.

Most large companies have a customer services operation that aims to keep customers happy on their behalf. If you are not happy with the service you receive from any given manufacturer as a prospective customer you can opt to escalate matters to someone more senior on the basic assumption that those above will want your business. If you've spoken to the big boss and he's clearely not interested then too bad. You'll just have to take your money elsewhere.

Making you, the customer feel special is a means to an end not an end in itself.

Hi Steve

I understand all you say and in fact I did take my money elsewhere when I realised I was flogging a dead horse (no offence intended Mr Ed ).

I wasn't expecting to be made to feel special just to be helped to listen to the product they were selling. End of the day I'm happy with where I went and they lost a sale.

Now I'll just wait for the company concerned to start whining about how poor the demand for their product appears to be !!

Cheers

Nick

[Steve Toy]

Now I'll just wait for the company concerned to start whining about how poor the demand for their product appears to be !!

Hopefully yes!

[WikiBoy]

A couple of things,

Richard, cut the insults. There is a pattern emerging here that I don't like where some individuals think that, by softening the tone of the insult a little, we admin will think it softens the impact so as not to cause offence when the intent is to do just that. Dodging around some notion of an AUP that doesn't actually exist really isn't going to cut it here - we have an ethos instead of which we expect everyone to embrace the spirit not follow to the letter. Your views, much of which I respect even if I don't agree with, would carry more weight if you could temper the bitter, twisted and angry aspect to your posting.

Completely dissagree, there was nothing insulting veiled or otherwise in what I wrote, in fact you paraphrased it in the latter part of this post, are you insulting him? There have been more insult in his replies than my post, but whatever. If you look for something you want to find I am sure you will find it. He over reacted - full stop, with anger and agression which *was not* reflected in *my* post. Seems strange for me to be defending a distributor, but you if see the behaviour of some (very few) customers who are just up their **** regarding what they think are their rights and your duties you would see what I mean. Problem is until you actually buy something you have no rights and they have no duties, and sometimes you just get so much demand for attention and continual questioning as though you are dealing with a child it is much simpler to say sorry but I just do not want your business. Like all relationships a little common sense is required which is all I was trying to convey.

[Steve Toy]

Problem is until you actually buy something you have no rights and they have no duties, and sometimes you just get so much demand for attention and continual questioning as though you are dealing with a child it is much simpler to say sorry but I just do not want your business. Like all relationships a little common sense is required which is all I was trying to convey.

Richard,

I agree with the above 100%. All I ask is that you do your bit to relieve us all of the confrontation element existing on both sides of any given heated debate.

As for the future of dealers the golden age of hi-fi is definitely over and many dealers will find it tough trading as a result. As fuel, taxes and food go up and earnings don't, people will have less to spend. This is precipitating the decline that began in the nineties as hi-fi became stigmatised in a brave new world of glossy lifestyle magazines, style over substance as well as more other new things like computers, AV and games consoles to tempt us to part with any disposable income we may yet still have left.

The situation is no different in France where I spoke to the son of the owner of Amplitude in Tours. I was surprised to find even one hi-fi shop but aparently back in the late 80s there were 17 of them in a city roughly the size of Derby. Perhaps the decline in the number of dealers is both inevitable and serves as a form of natural justice.

However, there are one or two dealers out there that genuinely do add value to your purchases in making the whole of your system greater than the sum of the parts. As these few dealers continue to prosper - and they are, others may follow and build on their good practice within a few years. These things tend to go in cycles.